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Ep. 15 Who? An Intended Mom and Advocate
241 Plays2 years ago
Mariam Shahab is an inclusive communications and digital marketing strategist but her favorite job title is "mama." She lives in Austin, Texas with her husband and son who was born via gestational surrogacy in September 2021. She's an advocate for inclusive parenthood journeys and a champion for diversity and inclusion because #representationmatters. She has shared her story on her own social media channels as well as Motherly!
https://www.mother.ly/life/motherly-stories/path-to-parenthood/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CVL-dthlm7S/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CTUabt3FjYH/
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Transcript
Meet Miriam Shahad
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, everyone. Welcome to me, you, and who. On today's episode, we are speaking with Miriam Shahad. She is an inclusive communications and digital marketing strategist, but her favorite job title is Mama. She lives in Austin, Texas with her husband and son, who was born via gestational surrogacy in September of 2021. She's an advocate for inclusive parenthood journeys and a champion for diversity inclusion
00:00:29
Speaker
because representation matters.
Understanding Surrogacy and Egg Donation
00:00:32
Speaker
This was an amazing time with Miriam. We had so much fun talking about her beautiful journey with her amazing surrogate, as well as just some of the things that she has been able to learn and educate others on post-journey. So please enjoy Miriam Shah.
00:00:52
Speaker
Me, you, and who? Who knew it would take more than two people to have a baby? In a world where infertility is no longer a taboo topic, this podcast will take you through all the different aspects of surrogacy and egg donation through the lens of many who walk this journey in different ways.
Whitney Hall's Surrogacy Journey
00:01:10
Speaker
My name is Whitney Hall, and I am a two-time surrogate now turned surrogacy coordinator for egg donor and surrogate solutions, the very agency I used when I chose to carry for two amazing families.
00:01:21
Speaker
With this podcast, it is our goal to help guide and support you as you learn about what it takes to grow a family in an alternative way, as well as hear inspiring and beautiful stories of how this path has changed lives forever. We can't wait for you to hear about just one more way happy families are created every day.
00:01:42
Speaker
Well, thank you for doing this. I really do appreciate you reaching out and wanting to share your story and for even just taking the time to be just out of your crazy busy day to even be part of this. So thank you, thank you, thank you.
Miriam's Path to Surrogacy
00:02:01
Speaker
What, like just first question off the bat, what led you to surrogacy as how you were going to grow your family?
00:02:08
Speaker
for sure. Well, thanks for having me on Whitney. And I'm just so glad for the platform and the podcasts and everything your team is doing to create education around surrogacy because it's so needed. So I definitely did not know anything about surrogacy before I needed to pursue surrogacy. I tell people I begrudgingly learned, right? It's not a first choice for many people. It wasn't for me a first choice in how I created my family. So
00:02:38
Speaker
My husband and I have now been married for 11 years. And when we first got married, thank you. When we first got married, we knew that we wanted to have kids, but we weren't going to try for kids. We wanted to just enjoy our marriage, explore, live. And about like five, six years into being married, we said, okay, let's try to start having children and try to naturally conceive. We're not having any luck.
00:03:04
Speaker
finally, you know, got to that point of like, okay, like, let's talk to the doctors, talk to my OBGYN. And what she ended up saying is she recommended I talk with a fertility clinic, fertility doctor, given that I had some fibroids in my uterus. And that would be part of potentially the reason we did some other tests, that kind of a thing. And she said, you know, start talking to a fertility clinic. And I live in Austin, Texas. And I grew up in Plano, Texas, outside of Dallas.
00:03:34
Speaker
And my parents are doctors there in Plano. So what we ended up doing, my husband and I both grew up in Plano. We met in high school, Bible high schools. I love it.
00:03:46
Speaker
Yes. We decided to go back to Plano and chose a fertility clinic there where our parents were for some support. And through more tests with a fertility clinic, essentially what they told us is, well, let's do a round of IVF just because just in case, get your eggs, create some embryos for you. And then we'll do more tests to see if we think you can carry. Oh, okay.
IVF Challenges and Family Support
00:04:13
Speaker
So it was December 2019 that we did a round of, well, November, December, a round of IDF. And we created and froze some embryos. And then it was February 2020 that I had some tests done and they were able to identify that given the location of my fibroids, size of the fibroids, that I actually wouldn't actually be able to carry a pregnancy full term and it would be a detriment to me and potentially my life at risk.
00:04:43
Speaker
So that was like really difficult to hear. It was a really intense moment in my life, in our marriage, with our families, that kind of a thing. And essentially what they said is if you, you know, we did have some embryos frozen, luckily. And they said, you know, if you want to use those embryos, we recommend surrogacy as an option. And I was like,
00:05:07
Speaker
overwhelmed, like, what is surrogacy? I don't know what you're saying right now. And they gave me some business cards of a couple of different surrogacy agencies. And I said, okay. And, you know, really took me some time to process and I went to surrogacy.com, I think, and just like read every single page on the website. Like, what is this? I've heard of it, but like, I don't know what this means.
00:05:34
Speaker
Right. And from there, it was now end of February 2020. And then if you might remember, March 2020 is when like the pandemic really hit the U.S. Might I remember. Right. Oh, my goodness. So then everything just kind of literally, I mean, for everyone of all the things, everything went on pause, right? Everything paused. Absolutely. The whole world stopped.
00:05:57
Speaker
Totally. And that's where, I mean, including us.
Pandemic Pause & Choosing an Agency
00:06:00
Speaker
And so we're just like, okay, like, I don't know what's happening in the world around us and everything. So we didn't really pursue anything after that. Sure. And so then it was March, no, sorry, we went through March, April, COVID was like,
00:06:14
Speaker
You know, it's COVID. COVID was COVID-ing. And then it was Memorial Day weekend, May, I guess, 2020. And my husband and I decided to like, okay, we're going to sit down. And we're actually going to do applications with some surrogacy agencies.
00:06:29
Speaker
And it was just like, okay, those are a long weekend. We're just getting, this is like what we're going to do. And obviously, surrogate solutions is one of the agencies that we applied to and the application process, you know, felt overwhelming. It was like, okay, these are some medical questions. I'm like, why do you care about my favorite movie?
00:06:49
Speaker
You know, so that's like lifestyle and personality questions, right? But later I realized like how important that like relationship building and the matching but I was just in there filling out the forms. It's like this is a lot of yo-yo of like questions that you that are, you know, being asked and
00:07:06
Speaker
finding the right, like for my husband and myself, we had to like describe ourselves or relationship, upload photos of like which pictures like are gonna make people want to carry our child. Like over analyzing all of that and what that meant. But that kind of was the beginning, just like getting through the diagnoses and timing of the pandemic and then finally applying.
00:07:34
Speaker
Oh, my gosh okay so much there like you have you have just had like a full journey before you even had a journey and like yeah which I mean is. It generally is what happens with you know, a lot of a lot of parents whenever there are intended parents when they're applying okay so a couple of questions, I have to know what made the.
00:07:55
Speaker
Um, because I find that, I think you're the first one that I've heard where they were like, Hey, let's just go ahead and do Embry like an egg retrieval before we even do anything else. What was the reasoning behind that? I think it was because my doctor knew based on the, um, ultrasounds of my uterus, how bad my fibroids were, but he didn't want to say it until he'd actually gotten in there through like a, um,
00:08:19
Speaker
I forgot the term, endoscope? No. Like a hysteroscopy? He had done like, yeah. So he hadn't done that yet. And so he hadn't like, I mean, obviously he had gone in from an ultrasound and imaging, but he hadn't gone into like scrape.
00:08:31
Speaker
And so he he just said
Matching with Surrogate Katie
00:08:34
Speaker
like let's do the round of IVF first before we mess with anything. That way we just have and did you have any like thoughts about that aspect of things where it was like oh gosh now maybe you know or were you kind of like oh this could possibly be one of the ways that at least I can carry?
00:08:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, definitely was not thinking that I wasn't going to be the one to carry. So it was just like, you know, IVF has so much more societal awareness, I guess. And I was like, Sure, okay, like, yes, this is going to be difficult, the hormones and medicine and all that kind of a thing. But
00:09:07
Speaker
I am a very type A person. And so I was like, okay, there is instruction, this is going to happen at this time, then this will happen. Like, it was essentially like I had explained all of that to me and I was like, okay, and we can figure this out. And
00:09:25
Speaker
You know, we had an interesting IVF time period. We ended up staying in Plano at my parents' house. And my mom was the nurse who administered my nurse, quote unquote, who administered my shots for me, which is kind of like very beautiful, right? You know, she was helping me have my child through this process, if you will, in terms of just, you know, these steps.
00:09:47
Speaker
And, um, going to the fertility clinic every other day, right? For the blood tests and stuff like that. Um, ultimately the egg retrieval was successful. It didn't get as many eggs as you know, you know, you want, you always want bigger numbers and all that kind of stuff.
Building a Relationship with Katie
00:10:02
Speaker
The back later I learned through the IVF community, like not even the egg retrieval is guaranteed, right? Like you don't know if you're going to get good quality or if you're going to get any eggs, et cetera.
00:10:13
Speaker
So I ended up coming home from the egg retrieval and actually a couple hours later passing out by myself, like in the bathroom at my parents' house.
00:10:24
Speaker
It was like probably, um, it was just cause like my body pressure going to the restroom, this kind of thing. And I just passed out and my husband and my mother freaked out. They're like, she's lying on the floor, like not responding to us. I ended up being fine. I went back to the hospital. Um, but it was just like, okay, that was dramatic. Like the actual egg retrieval and giving the shots. Like we figured all that out. We're expecting this. Um,
00:10:54
Speaker
That part was was fine. OK, OK, so then it was like OK, my path to parenthood is going to be slightly different because we're going to maybe we're going to probably have to go to IVF route. Then all of a sudden you get the news. This isn't even going to be a possible path and immediately they're like OK, surrogacy is going to be your option. It sounds like obviously it was incredibly overwhelming. Throw in a pandemic on top of that and now we're just feeling all the feelings. What made you immediately decide?
00:11:22
Speaker
Hey, I'm going to go the agency route versus like independent or things like that. I know that you said they handed you business cards and then you were like, I'm now just stone cold. I don't even know what's happening anymore. Honestly, I didn't know that you couldn't go not the agency route. It was more like, okay, this is my next step. Like I had trust in my fertility clinic. They said the best way forward is working with one of these three surrogacy agencies that they've worked with before.
00:11:52
Speaker
And I said, okay. And I'm one of those people who very much puts trust in individuals as my path forward rather than like googling everything. I do want to like learn and be informed, but I want to be learned and be informed by people who are smarter than me at the thing, the experts. Sure. I always say be aware of Dr. Google, right? Like it can just be too much.
00:12:17
Speaker
Yeah, totally. And so that's where I didn't like to go a different route and I just didn't entertain that idea. Okay, yeah, that makes a ton of sense. And so what ultimately made you decide to go with surrogate solutions versus two of the other agencies that you applied to?
00:12:34
Speaker
Yeah. So did the email and like what intake or discovery call, whatever it might be called with multiple people. And it was kind of like a vibe check, right? It was, um, the communication is so important to me between email communication and phone communication with who I'm working with. Like I said, the trust is so important and I had
Gender Reveal and Family Reactions
00:12:56
Speaker
never done this before. So I wanted someone who was going to give me information in a way that it was, um,
00:13:02
Speaker
understandable to me, but also I'm the kind of person who wants all the information. It just needs to be packaged in a way that I can comprehend it. Like don't just like, we're going to take care of it from A to Z. What is it? Right? Like all the steps. And so I just like, I remember, uh, circuit solutions had given me some like PDFs and checklists and like flow charts. And I really liked that. Oh, your type A self. There it is. For sure. I really appreciated that. And you know, it's,
00:13:30
Speaker
Of course, there's a business aspect, but the empathy is so important, too. It's like, again, I'm coming to this for the first time. And I definitely appreciated how Circuit Solutions was showing up in those first conversations. And that I could apply as potential intended parents, and we wouldn't necessarily move forward until there was a match. That was important to me to understand that.
00:13:54
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So how was that matching process? You ended up going with us. Wonderful. Yay. And then all of a sudden now it's like, okay, now I have to find the woman that's carrying my child. Oh my goodness. Yes. It was so interesting. So my husband and I, like I said, we met in high school, so we never did the dating profile thing. Sure.
00:14:17
Speaker
and it like the application and like the meeting people totally from what I understand felt like a dating um like it's just like you're trying to find your match literally um and it was nerve-wracking because it's like this person is gonna carry my child and I have to convince them to and I have to be
00:14:39
Speaker
They're vibe-checking me and my husband to see if they want to do this for us. But what was beautiful, and especially when I look back now, is we got extremely lucky, given that it was the pandemic. We got matched with Katie, who is our gestational surrogate, gestational carrier, about six weeks after applying, which I know is sometimes unheard of, where it could be months
00:15:07
Speaker
it could be like year for other people is what I've heard, not just through circuit solutions, just in surrogacy in general. And so the fact that we got matched within six weeks truly was such an amazing thing because it just felt like there was progress, especially when there's this moment of confusion and, you know, how am I going to make move forward on this? And there was this moment of like,
00:15:32
Speaker
I don't know much about surrogacy and our surrogates going to want to carry during the COVID time period and all those unknowns. So there was just so much going on. And the fact that we were able to match with her and her husband was wonderful. I actually remember our match meeting because it was on Zoom, of course.
00:15:53
Speaker
there was the coordinator was on the call from surrogate solutions and it's like literally your shop room for your double date trying to like help you get comfortable with each other because she knows both couples but we're meeting for the first time.
00:16:12
Speaker
It's it's funny when you think about like that piece of it, but then after that the relationship truly blossoms together. It's just those first you like first feel so intense. Oh yeah, well and I think you said it beautifully because it really I mean that meeting is another you know almost vibe check between you know each other because it's not like a list, right? It's not OK. You're at the top of the list and now you're matched with that surrogate that's on the list. Does it work? You know sort of thing.
00:16:41
Speaker
You know, you're looking at profiles and what is your favorite movie or, you know, what are the little things that during that quote, like first date, maybe you guys can connect on and, and, and things like that. So yeah, it totally is that vibe check. And obviously it was successful. Yeah. I remember actually, I haven't thought about this in a long time now. I just remember we talked about chocolate chip cookies. I don't know how it came up, but we did. Yeah. It's so funny as a coordinator, you know, we,
00:17:11
Speaker
We'll read notes from the match meeting and I've had a couple times where you know it was Lauren who you know was was doing all of the match meetings and she did something about there was a. Group that I had who they they bonded over Harry Potter, so she's like typing stuff in there and she's like I have no idea what any of this is, but I'm putting this in here because I know you like Harry Potter.
00:17:37
Speaker
That's so cute. I love it. Everybody seems to always have one thing that's like, OK, good, here's our common ground. And then let's go from there. And it's something so silly, like Harry Potter or chocolate chip cookies. And then it's like, yeah, we're about to embark on this crazy thing, but let's talk about something so surfacey that we can all bond over. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yes. And then it gets started and you go through the whole thing. So how was your experience with Katie? What was that journey like?
00:18:05
Speaker
It was great. It was amazing. The first time we finally got to meet in person, so she was located in Oklahoma, Norman, Oklahoma area. My husband and I live in Austin, Texas, and then the fertility clinic we were using was in Plano, Texas.
00:18:18
Speaker
So go for it geographic areas. And we first time
Surrogacy Maternity Photoshoot
00:18:22
Speaker
we actually met in person was in Plano after a fertility clinic initial appointment that she had. And we actually met at Corner Bakery. I remember the specific Corner Bakery that we met at and because my husband and I grew up in Plano,
00:18:36
Speaker
There's a quarter bakery we've gone to a lot, like, just growing up and we were so nervous to meet in person too, because it was like, you know, you've done your virtual date and the text messages, but now we're actually going to meet in person. And I just remember how, you know,
00:18:54
Speaker
what am I going to wear? But the actual journey was so beautiful. There's so many moments that really solidified our relationship together too. And because it was COVID time periods, I actually, my husband and I were not allowed into the fertility clinic for those first appointments. So we remember when we actually had the, I'm blanking on the word,
00:19:23
Speaker
the embryo, the transfer.
00:19:27
Speaker
the transfer day. Yes. Well, forgot the word transfer day. We literally my husband and I we called it a tailgate. We sat outside the clinic and we all met in the parking lot. We called it a transfer tailgate. Like my husband, I had snacks with us too. So her husband sat in his car and then my husband and I sat in our car and like she went in and had the transfer and you know, she's texting all of us in our group chat and then
00:19:53
Speaker
came back out, we were hugging, taking pictures, all that kind of thing. But literally my husband and I just sat there. And we actually made a video because I decided to make sure I was capturing my husband and I's emotions throughout this whole process. I wanted to take a lot of photos and videos to really remember. And so we had a vlog, just my husband and I sitting in the car eating snacks, waiting for some updates because I needed something to pass the time. And it wasn't very long as transfer appointments are pretty short.
00:20:25
Speaker
There's that appointment. And then when we finally, we were on FaceTime when we got to hear the heartbeat, the first heartbeat appointment too. And again, we were in the car outside of the fertility clinic because we still wanted to be there without being physically in the room, right? We still came to Plano, wanted to see Katie before and after the appointment, things like that. But it was just like the beginning of the journey. And then when she
00:20:50
Speaker
graduated to her OB in Norman, Oklahoma.
Birth Amidst COVID-19
00:20:54
Speaker
Their policies by the, you know, where the calendar time was going on to allowed us to come into appointments, which was so fun. And part of the memories my husband and I have are driving from Austin to Oklahoma, which is like a six hour plus drive and going there, waking up early, this kind of thing, like asking to have appointments at 10 a.m. rather than 8 a.m. so that we leave at certain times.
00:21:20
Speaker
But just all these appointments and being there through this process, luckily I was working remotely already and just being able to like be there for each of these appointments and these milestones helped solidify our relationship together.
00:21:36
Speaker
I love that. I love that. And then of course, over the course of the time, obviously, like you said, your relationship with Katie blossomed and you know all of that. What were besides delivery day, which I want to hear all about it, but what were some of your favorite memories throughout the journey? Yeah, I was thinking about this. So one of the things we did with the gender reveal and.
00:22:00
Speaker
I, with embryo testing, technically you already know the gender of the embryo and I didn't want to know. I told our fertility clinic, pick the best quality embryo for transfer day.
00:22:14
Speaker
didn't have a preference on gender, um, that kind of a thing. I said, just, I need the best chance, whichever is the best quality. I trust the embryologists and the fertility doctors. So, um, didn't want to know which one they transferred. Yeah. And I also didn't want to know the gender until we got to the first trimester. That was just like a mental thing for me. I didn't want to know, I didn't know like, is it, you know, a real viable pregnancy and knowing the gender felt like,
00:22:43
Speaker
It just felt heavy to me. It was a little too real. And so I was actually out here in Austin with my husband and my best friend, Kanui, or Kayaking, one day. And my friend was asking me, she's my best friend. She's been there through this process for me. And she said, let's do a gender reveal. I said, no, I'm just going to email the clinic and ask now that I'm comfortable. And she's like, why? No,
Early Motherhood During the Pandemic
00:23:09
Speaker
we're going to do a whole gender reveal for you.
00:23:12
Speaker
She convinced me. And so she was the first person to know the gender because when I connected her with a fertility clinic, gave all like the legal approvals for her to find out the gender. So the fertility clinic emailed her and she had to sit on this information for like a week and a half, two weeks while she planned the gender reveal. And she's like, I actually can't hang out with you because I can't like, just cannot.
00:23:34
Speaker
And so we just did a little gender reveal. We did one initially here in Austin with some friends. And my friend also kind of type A like me. She asked me, how do you want the reveal, right? Do you want it in a cake? Do you want a balloon? Do you want? So there's so many ways to do it. And I don't remember what I actually told her, but what she did is she did, she picked two ways to do it. So she got a balloon with the color inside and she got cupcakes.
00:24:03
Speaker
with and she told the bakery the gender and she said this is for gender reveal I want blue my son is you know wanted to have the blue for him and so um I she got both and so she were here at the party at my um townhome and
00:24:23
Speaker
I say, OK, let's do the cupcake. Let's cut into the cupcake. Let's find the color out that way. And my friends were like, no, the photos look better if it's the bullets. I said, OK, fine. And so we end up doing the balloon and finding out we're going to have a boy and celebrating. And then now it's time to eat cupcakes. Let's have a party. So we cut into the cupcake. And there's actually no color. It just has no filling. Oh, no.
00:24:52
Speaker
We're like, what if that had been the way that we had found out we would have all been so confused and my friend would have been like, I guess I'll show you the email. So she was so happy she had two ways to announce it to us and to our friends. It was just like,
00:25:11
Speaker
It was like, really, this happened? And then we did another gender reveal with our families back in Plano and we decided to keep with the balloon route because.
Advocacy for Diverse Surrogacy Stories
00:25:20
Speaker
That was solid. We didn't want to make re-incident. Yes. We don't want to trust the Baker's anymore. But, you know, got the color instead, the balloons, the confetti, the beautiful shots and revealed it to our family that we were going to have a son. Thing is, I had no boy name at all.
00:25:37
Speaker
I only had girl names. Even when we were trying to conceive naturally, I just did not know what to name if we had a son. I had a list for girls. My husband and I discussed that list and now we're having a boy. I was like, well, no idea what we're going to name him. Yeah, we're back to zero now. Back to zero. Don't know what to do. And so our surrogate, her name is Katie, but her full name is Mary Catherine.
00:26:02
Speaker
And my name is Miriam, and Miriam in Arabic is Mary, which is essentially the same name. So Miriam and Mary are the same name. And Mary is, and so then ended up, sorry, back to the story. So my son's name, we decided to name him Isa.
00:26:20
Speaker
Isa in Arabic is Jesus. So the concept of Mary and Jesus together was something that we found so beautiful because my name is Maryam, which is Mary, her name is Mary, Mary Catherine. And we decided to name my son Isa, also Jesus, which the idea of like immaculate, you know, conception and just the fact that she was carrying him, it was just all of these pieces together that
00:26:49
Speaker
Um, we, we, we went ahead and like had the name and we did share the name with some, with Katie and with our friends and family beforehand too. It just helped us stay connected and make the whole thing feel more real. Um, as you progress through the pregnancy. Oh, I love that. That is so beautiful. And what an honor for her as well. Oh my goodness.
00:27:11
Speaker
So let me, let me ask you this. So it sounds like you obviously, you had friends that were like, you must have a gender reveal and your mom was doing the shots. What was it like telling your family, Hey, this is how we're going to have our child? Yeah. I mean, what was, you know, you can't plan for these things, but what was great is that fact that we,
Addressing Surrogacy Misconceptions
00:27:35
Speaker
worked with a fertility clinic in Plano. And so my parents were there for exactly the moment that I found out that I wasn't able to carry my child. And they were there for the information that if I wanted to have a child of our own, it would be through surrogacy because we already held everyone in my family close circle friends knew that I'd done IVF.
00:27:56
Speaker
And so that part was, you know, they very much deferred to me and my husband on like, what do we want to do with this information of like, if you want to have your own child, it will be through surrogacy. Um, and very much supportive in the sense of like learning with me on like, what does surrogacy mean? Sure. How are we going to finance this? Things like that. Um, there was also, you know, when there's the inner circle.
00:28:24
Speaker
the family and the friends and then after that like the idea of like telling other people became something that was like even with a traditional pregnancy you know you want some people want to wait till it's bible pregnancy that kind of a thing or further along you know anything can happen in a pregnancy um and so part of it was
00:28:44
Speaker
How am I, I work in social media marketing. So I have a public social media for myself. And so the traditional social media announcement, like, how am I going to do that? I want to do it. Should I do it? Like, what is it going to say? Right.
00:28:59
Speaker
a belly photo of my own to share. But like all those traditional announcement things, I wanted to do them. And it was finally my time, you know, to share but gone to enough gender revealed baby showers celebrated enough like pregnancy announcements of others. And so when I shared it most publicly was on my own Instagram and shared a post and I genuinely was vulnerable in the sense that
00:29:28
Speaker
This is something my husband and I have been trying for many years. We went through IDF and we are blessed to have this amazing gestational carrier who's going to
00:29:38
Speaker
bring our son into the world. And, you know, had so much positive reaction from people that I know or knew before and they're still connected to. And, you know, I also had a conversation with work. I was really worried. What kind of maternity leave am I going to get?
Advice for Intended Parents
00:30:00
Speaker
And how do I announce it? One to my boss, but then two to HR to figure out, um, you know, what is our policy? Like I tried to read it myself. Like, I don't know, like it didn't say the word and I had a lot of tenure at the company. I'd been there for, I guess at the time, maybe like eight, nine years. And so, um, I had a lot of relationships and I wanted to leverage that. I was like, I'm going to get my maternity leave. I'm going to get at least three months of maternity leave one way or the other.
00:30:28
Speaker
I mean like the basic maternity leave I guess is three months nowadays and I was nervous to tell them and of course I told them before I would post on social media and had good conversations and they ended up
00:30:43
Speaker
My HR person from my office had not ever administered a maternity leave. It's the terms that she is for a surrogacy leave, but my company at the time was part of a larger conglomerate of companies, so she reached out to the HR
00:30:59
Speaker
folks at the other companies and turns out like someone at another company had administrative leave for surrogacy and she tried to use their templates to come up with something and build a maternity leave package for me because the company would had
00:31:16
Speaker
what is it called, like unlimited PTO. So like basically connecting some unlimited PTO with some family leave policies and ended up being like two doubts of different leads and we mesh it all together. Oh my goodness, all the things. Yeah. So like telling people at work, um, was definitely a part of the process of just
00:31:41
Speaker
I didn't at the time want to take on the education mental and the awareness building mental that I do now of being an advocate for surrogacy at the time it was just like my life and this is I just need to tell you having a child like this is how it's happening kind of a thing yeah but now like on the other side of it now I'm like wow we need more
00:32:04
Speaker
family leave policy for people who have children in different ways. Like I deserve, anyone who's an intended parent deserves to have time with their child after you tried so hard to get them here. Absolutely, absolutely. Well, and I mean, you were paving the way you were being an advocate and you were like, I don't want to talk about it right now, but you need to make this happen. And fantastic for you.
00:32:24
Speaker
That's right. You know, you're so right when you because now my hope is that anyone at that company, I'm not there anymore, who might be having a child care service and now they have that template, they have that policy that they gave me so now they can give it to others too. So that's true.
00:32:41
Speaker
Um, but you know, the other question you guys are just like memorable moments on our process. One of my favorite memories that we had was we decided to do a surrogacy maternity photo shoot. So talking about all these like
00:32:56
Speaker
Milestones, right? Like we did the gender reveal. And our circuit was not actually our gender reveal. But what I ended up doing is I sent her and her family their own little reveal package. And it was like chocolate. It was like a chocolate heart with blue M&Ms on the inside. And there was a little hammer. Oh, yeah, like the break apart. I'm sure it was like one of those cute Etsy ideas. But sure. And sent me a video to
00:33:26
Speaker
But then what we what I really really loved and at the time again I was just like living my life I didn't I wasn't like thinking like what does this mean symbolically and I was just like you know I always wanted to do a maternity photo shoot.
00:33:39
Speaker
Yeah. And let's reframe it. Let's do it with our surrogate. And let's, you know, I wanted to ask Katie and she was very comfortable with it. And I invited her family to be part of it too. This is a memorable moment she'd been, you know, educating her children and her family and her community through her process too.
00:33:58
Speaker
And so, I had a photographer in Oklahoma, and the photographer had never done a surrogacy photo shoot. And so, again, I ended up educating without meaning to in the past. More education. I went into Pinterest and I found some photos I like. There are people who've done, of course, these surrogacy maternity photo shoots. It's just not
00:34:19
Speaker
super comment. And we were working with a maternity photographer in Oklahoma. So she understood now that she'd seen the pictures that I'd shared with her, what we were going for and like, whether it was, you know, photos of my husband and I with Katie or our hands on her belly or, you know, some of the like, the important shots to get versus also if we end up at this beautiful
00:34:46
Speaker
like mountaintop in Oklahoma that the photographer had picked and like just the location and so totally built up that trust with her to like get these photos that would be memories for both of our families for a lifetime and we got lost going up and finding the mountain. That was a whole lot of things but the photos were something that I was really, it was that moment that was
00:35:12
Speaker
visually appealing to help share with others to understand that, like, this is this emotional moment between our two families and how we're connecting and choosing to have these memories. Like, you know, I have the ultrasound pictures, you know, and that's that's
00:35:28
Speaker
great and feels very normal. But the idea like this juxtaposition of my husband and I with our pregnant carrier, it was just something that I think really struck a lot of people to emotionally and of course, myself and family and friends. Well, it's celebrating it. I mean, because of course, you went through a grieving process of like, oh, gosh, I'm this isn't how I originally thought my family would come in to the world or grow my family. But
00:35:55
Speaker
it's still so beautiful and you know you get to share it with obviously I mean you and Katie became such you know your families bonded and so it's just one way to celebrate that unique bond that is surrogacy and growing your family in that way I mean yeah that's gorgeous oh I love that I love that okay so you had delivery day it was beautiful and
00:36:19
Speaker
amazing I'm sure you got there in time thank goodness all of the things right that's always everyone's biggest fear am I going to get there in time especially if you're not in the same state um what was it like seeing your sweet baby boy and then how was life after yes um well like it just brings me a smile on my face thinking about all these memories so um
00:36:44
Speaker
we had a scheduled induction and so we knew when it was going to happen and so we had gotten up to Norman, Oklahoma the day before and we'd always stayed at this one hotel my husband and I like that's right next to the hospital so it was like okay we're here again and what had been discussed with Katie's OB was that
00:37:08
Speaker
because again, it was still COVID days that she could have one of us, me or my husband in the delivery room. And that was for the past, for like the last two months of pregnancy, it was like, that was kind of what we were going with. We've been the circuit solutions coordinator. We've been talking with the hospital and the labor and delivery team and all that, which was wonderful helping me feel comfortable too on what that process would look like. You know, we'd have our own,
00:37:36
Speaker
mother, baby, Roman, all that, like understanding all that. So the day before, Katie called us and says, we've got an approval from both of you to be in the delivery room, which we were so excited about. My husband, like his whole time, he was like, well, I'm not going to be there. You're going to be there with Katie. Yeah. It's just like, I was like, what? Okay. This was exciting.
00:38:01
Speaker
Well, you know, there's always twists, right? So now it's, so my husband and I go have like our last pre-baby meal at like a restaurant near the hotel. And, you know, we're, the call time for induction was probably like six or seven AM pretty early. And so we're like, okay, like we're getting in bed at like nine 30, 10, like let's just nerves, so many nerves. And Katie Texas, the quench we're already in bed, she said, are you awake? And I was like, okay, yeah, let's talk.
00:38:30
Speaker
And turns out, again, part of the protocol at the time was that she had to take a COVID test before the induction. She got a positive COVID test. Oh. Yes. And so because of that, that changed all of the labor delivery policies. Yeah. My husband and I were not able to be in the delivery room.
00:38:51
Speaker
And they obviously the labor delivery team had their own like, mask up, all sorts of stuff, all the gear, and then of course, Kitty's wearing the mask, and then her husband's wearing the mask, and all of that kind of stuff. So my husband and I were not able to be in the room. So it was like, kind of whiplash, like, we're both going to be there, and we're not, and processing all of that. So again, like, parking lot meetups are kind of our go to thing. There you go. A delivery tailgate.
00:39:20
Speaker
Right? And so we meet up in the parking lot in the morning, and Katie gives me this gift, this box, before she goes in for the induction and for delivery. I'm like, what? You're about to give me the best gift of my life. And so I was like, I'm going to open this later. I'm not doing this right now.
00:39:41
Speaker
I got pulled together. She goes and checks into the labor delivery. My husband and I actually go ahead. The hospital gave us our room on the mother baby floor. So we're sitting there waiting, texting, FaceTiming. Time goes by so slowly. And inductions are, yeah, you don't know what's going to happen. It could take forever or it could take a minute. Yeah, absolutely.
00:40:11
Speaker
Yeah, time goes so slowly. And so now, so we're like eating lunch, like, how am I eating food right now? Like, I don't know. And so finally, we get the text that it's time. And she has a beautiful, easy delivery, literally like minutes, like the OB was across the street, like it's just different buildings. And she had to run over because things were moving fast. And so
00:40:39
Speaker
She gets their beautiful delivery and Katie's husband actually took so many videos and photos for us, which was amazing. And literally from labor delivery, which I think was a lower floor and we were on mother baby, my son Isa is brought to us.
00:40:59
Speaker
like within minutes of being born. And the doctor actually did this beautiful thing where she left part of the umbilical cord still on. Like, of course it had to be cut, but it's like kind of like a good couple inches so that we could cut it when we came up to our room. And the nurses there were wonderful. And you know, because Katie was technically COVID positive, now
00:41:24
Speaker
Issa was considered technically COVID positive. And now he's coming to our room. So we have to wear masks. And so my husband and I are wearing masks first time we're meeting our son, but this nurse, she's so wonderful. She's like, takes my cell phone. She says, take off your mask. You're meeting your son for the first time and takes these beautiful photos. That is like still my like number one photo where I'll share the photo with you later, but it's
00:41:51
Speaker
Again, you can't make this stuff up. I'm crying and smiling, the biggest smile of my life and crying at the same time. Absolutely, absolutely. And it's just like the juxtaposition, like there's a lot going on. Yes, of course. This nurse was wonderful and just like took all these photos for us when we first met him and it was, you know,
00:42:17
Speaker
truly amazing. I was like, this little boy, he's my son. He's yours. Oh my gosh. Considering especially just the timing of everything. And then, I mean, it sounds like, especially with her being COVID positive and all of that. And like you said, the whirlwind of will we, won't we? It sounded like it was still just the most perfect, beautiful moment as it should have been.
00:42:43
Speaker
Oh, exactly. Like honestly, I would never have had it any other way. Like I don't regret anything. And like she, and also the hospital was just so wonderful that all of the tests, I guess that you would do within a few minutes of the day being born, they did all that upstairs in our room. So they also wanted to get Ysa out from that room and into our room. And so like all of the measurements, all of those things they did, they had the heat lamp on and everything. And he brought him to our room and they did it all with us right there.
00:43:12
Speaker
which was just amazing. Yeah, with mom and dad. Yeah, yeah, it was amazing. And like, you know, they do all the other, I guess, hearing tests, the vision tests, but then, you know, like, literally day one of this kid's life, he had a COVID test. So, you know, COVID. Yeah, COVID babies. I mean, there's something special about them.
00:43:30
Speaker
Yeah, and he was fine. Katie was fine. Both of them, they didn't actually like have any coded symptoms or reactions. Oh my gosh. Okay, so what was in the box? What did she give you? It was a blanket. So it was just a beautiful baby blanket that we still have. And you know, it's just gonna be one of those memories for Isa. But this came from Katie and her family.
00:43:55
Speaker
Oh, I love that. I love that. So how was because it was COVID times, how were your first couple months like, you're being your mom now. I mean, you were mom, but now your mom with a newborn. Yes. Amazing. So we stayed in the hospital, I think two days. And we drove from Norman to back to Plano. So yeah, had a pit stop there at my family's house, got to meet the grandparents.
00:44:23
Speaker
Did Katie have to stay in the hospital longer or was she able to go home? Oh she was actually able to go home before we did so which was great because they wanted to wait to test ESA some more as well and so um she got to go home I think it was the next day yeah oh that's great that's right so her COVID symptoms weren't like major or anything like that. No no
00:44:45
Speaker
One of the things actually, because of that whole situation, she and her husband, she didn't get to quote, meet Ysa. Like after he was delivered into our room and we were quarantined for 24, 48 hours. I don't remember exactly. So she didn't get to meet him, which was like, Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so then.
00:45:11
Speaker
You know, now we're journeying all the way to Plano and from Plano to Austin. Absolutely. The first time she really got to meet, meet him and her family, they came to Austin for his first birthday. And it was so beautiful. It was just so much fun. We had them over to our house on his actual birthday and he did a smash cake and everything. It was just my, like our close family and then Katie and her family
00:45:41
Speaker
And then the next day we had a birthday party like out at a restaurant. So they came for that too. And they got to, because again, the COVID times, like they didn't get to meet our families also because of limited interaction. So that was the first time my parents were meeting this woman who had birthed my child and my friends got to meet her at the birthday party and all of that. So it was a lot. Oh, that is so special.
00:46:09
Speaker
That is so special. Oh my goodness. What a journey. What a journey. Okay. So since then at the time it was just, okay, I'm just, I'm growing my family. I don't want to talk about it, but this is how we're doing it. And then of course you're battling a pandemic during the same time. So everything is just wonky and crazy. And since then in retrospect, you're like, the world needs to know we must educate. What is that for you and your family? And then of course your sweet son.
00:46:37
Speaker
Yeah, I guess what sparked that like what sparked you wanting to be like, hey, people need to know more about this. So I am a big believer in storytelling. And you know, when I was beginning my journey and being told that I needed to use surrogacy as my path to parenthood, if I wanted to have my own child.
00:46:58
Speaker
I just like wasn't able to find enough stories around regular people pursuing surrogacy, right? There was like, what was in the entertainment media, which, you know, not really accurate. And then there was celebrities, like it truly was, okay, Gabrielle Union, Priyanka Chopra, Tan France, like
00:47:19
Speaker
cool for them, Kim Kardashian. And I'm not them. I cannot relate to them. I've never been someone who's into celebrity culture. I'm not obsessed with pop culture in that sense. And so it was always like, that's what came up when I was looking for stories of surrogacy. And so what became important to me as I reflected and had more space from the actual surrogacy journey, and I was now a mom with my son,
00:47:47
Speaker
I worked, like I said, in social media marketing. And then I actually, once my son was born, ended up starting at a new firm, Communications Agency, which is focused on advocacy work. Advocacy for lots of different issue areas. And one of the issue areas I worked in was reproductive justice. And I was really seeing the power of telling stories to create change and demand change also when it comes to policies and things like that too.
00:48:14
Speaker
And honestly, it just came very naturally to me just to start sharing retrospectively, nostalgically, you know, on transfer day, a year after transfer day, I shared on Instagram, on my personal Instagram, that blog I told you about, like the transfer tailgate and like the videos that, vulnerably, that my husband and I took mostly just for ourselves, but I shared them publicly and the amount of,
00:48:40
Speaker
responses I got from people who were so thankful for me sharing our journey beyond my just micro group of friends and family was amazing and it felt really good to me that people were asking me questions about IVF asking me questions about surrogacy some because they're just curious and some because they actually like needed the information for themselves or for someone in their
00:49:06
Speaker
friends or in the family circle, literally yesterday or the day before, yesterday before we had this podcast interview, I got a message on Instagram because I've continuously shared some of the reflective journey from a woman I worked with years ago. I haven't talked to her. Honestly, she never has interacted with my Instagram content. I don't remember her liking, commenting, or DMing me before. But just two days ago, she messaged me and she said,
00:49:34
Speaker
Hey, I've been watching your stuff. I know that you've vulnerably shared about surrogacy. One of my best friends lives in Austin and she just found out that she's not going to be able to carry for her second child that they're trying for. Would you be open to connecting with her and sharing some of the ups and downs and the ins and outs of surrogacy? I said, it made me, it made my heart smile so much, Whitney, like this is a woman who is
00:50:04
Speaker
seen my content and now she has this moment to support her friend and I of course said yes and I said listen whenever your friend is ready to talk to me that's up to her like I'm here here's my personal cell phone number if you want to connect this way
00:50:22
Speaker
Um, and it would make me, I've had, I've had a few people over the past two years who reached out to me and I've had that conversation with them one conversation, two, three conversations. And it's just being real human. That's like not the internet to have a conversation with somebody. And like, and you know, I always tell people, I was like, I am not an expert. I have my story.
00:50:44
Speaker
my experiences and then I am informed because I consume a lot of content around this but I am not an expert but there's something to having a real human and it's just these moments just like this woman DMing me a couple days ago is why I share about our journey and you know reflecting like every year on his birthday how important it is for me to talk to my son about Katie
00:51:13
Speaker
And all the in-between moments too is, you know, making sure that he knows that he wouldn't be here without her. And that's something you're trying to figure out is like, you know, there's not enough books about surrogacy, like kid's books, you know, there's like literally the same stuff in whenever you Google like come up. And some of the books are for the surrogates children to understand what the surrogates doing. And that's great, but I don't need that. I need
00:51:42
Speaker
different ways to explain to my son like how much we did to have him here and how loved he is not just by us but by Katie and others as well to bring him here and like that's where I just think there's just not enough so like content movies that are real books that are real real people's real stories to explain what surrogacy is and why it's so amazing
00:52:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, cause you're right in the Hollywood kind of version of surrogacy, it's usually sensational and generally inaccurate. And so yeah, there, it doesn't feel as though there's a lot of resources or it's a celebrity. Um, and you're right. It's real people trying to figure this out. Um, and it's not necessarily a classified as a luxury perhaps. Like it's like, no, this is how we're going to grow our family. And it's, and it's hard and it's, you know, and it's vulnerable and so raw and real. Oh, that's amazing.
00:52:38
Speaker
Would you, um, because you sent me that beautiful blog, um, the, or it wasn't a blog, but your article, um, that is he yours? Can you share more about it? Because I know, like you said, you know, you're sometimes in these mom groups and everyone starts talking about,
00:52:56
Speaker
their personal delivery day or oh gosh you remember you know our feet were swollen or you know whatever it might be or those those first couple of days or that first time at the park or you know whatever it may be. Can you share more about you know just that moment for you?
00:53:11
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. So, you know, when we were going through our surrogacy journey, it wasn't much about how do I communicate to others, but I am an intended mom. You know, I am having a child, even though my body might not look like it. Right. Yeah. We have these moments where during the surrogacy journey, showing up to, uh, what is it, uh, bye-bye baby to do registry. And I was really nervous. Like, um, are they going to ask me who I'm registering for? Right. Sure. And
00:53:41
Speaker
I was focused on how to deal with those moments. I wasn't focused on once my son is here, how do I, how and if will I have to like acknowledge to other people that, Oh, I didn't carry my son. Like how many times am I going to repeat this? Right. And do I, do I need to like, of course I'm going to, to my son, but like to others is kind of what I was thinking about.
00:54:05
Speaker
And so this article you talk about, it might be published on Motherly, so I'll let you know if it does get published there. But what I was really reflecting on is, someone was born September 30th, 2021, and a month later is Halloween.
00:54:20
Speaker
And I, my friends convinced me like, get him a cute costume. And I was like, I was very much in that early mom new brain phase where I was like, I can't think about stuff like, you're talking about something that's two weeks away. I don't know. We're going day to day, hour by hour. Totally. I was like, oh, come on, get him a cute new costume. So I ended up getting expedited at the costume, which was a Fox costume.
00:54:50
Speaker
And so his whole room theme is his nursery theme is like forest. So he has like a couple like fox characters, things like that. And so we got that for him. And my husband and I were like, we cannot think creatively right now. There's no costumes for us. It is fine.
00:55:08
Speaker
um and one of my friends we are parents that's our costume that that is our costume right and so my friend was hosting um halloween get together and wanted to take her daughter um out for trick or treating and um invited this over so somehow i said yes i convinced myself to like go and say yes and you know it was one of those things where
00:55:30
Speaker
I'm a sucker for family friendly events before I had my son. I love these wholesome go to the farmer's market with your kid and go to the pumpkin patch. That is just that kind of stuff I've always liked doing, even without my child. I've always wanted to envision myself doing with a child one day. And so I was like, OK, no, let's start making some memories, Mary. I'm like, let's do this. And went, and we were just in my friend's neighborhood walking around doing trick or treating.
00:56:00
Speaker
obviously my son's in his stroller and people are like trying to peek and they're like, oh, what's this costume? And like, oh, how old's the little one? That kind of a thing. And this woman stops me and she starts asking those general questions and I say, oh, he's actually only a month old. And she literally says, looks at me, she goes, is he yours? I wasn't saying it like to be rude or malicious, but she goes, you lost so much weight, is he yours?
00:56:29
Speaker
And I literally was frozen in my tracks. I was like, what? Like, yes, of course he's mine, right? But she was commenting on my body, because my body didn't look like a traditional postpartum mother who has delivered her child, which I didn't deliver my child, but it was
00:56:53
Speaker
absolutely infuriating like here I am just trying to make memories with my family go trick or treating minding my own business and it just shows how much
00:57:07
Speaker
progress we have yet to make as a society when it comes to just commenting on women's bodies regardless of pregnancy like let's not do that. Like that's one layer right there. Like that's just like that first layer right and commenting on what a postpartum body should look like and it was so
00:57:31
Speaker
frustrating to me to, I'm not going to sit there and explain in that moment that no, we had a gestational carrier. Like here's a random stranger. I'm trying to trick or treat house to house. I wish I had said more to her, but in that moment, I didn't realize that I was going to have these moments that I needed. I do want to prepare myself emotionally for to protect myself and then proactively like, what am I going to say next time? Type of the thing now that I've experienced that this is something people might, might ask or might say,
00:58:01
Speaker
type of a thing. So it's one of those where I want to be proactive about letting others know, including my son, of course, that he was born through surrogacy. I'm not hiding that fact from anyone. I'm not ashamed of that fact. Frankly, I'm proud of that fact. And that's one of those things that
00:58:23
Speaker
I think we just all need to create more awareness for surrogacy. And that's why I share my story is to truly share that these things happen. And now we all need to reassess our own biases around what motherhood looks like or what pregnancy looks like. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
00:58:44
Speaker
I, whenever you first, when I first read the article and then when you first told me about it, I just, I was like, I just have, I have so many thoughts and feelings and I'm not going to get on my soapbox, but I mean, I completely, completely agree because you're right. Motherhood, postpartum bodies, how you get to motherhood, you know, like how you get to, you know, just parenthood in general is so different for everybody. And I mean, oh, sometimes the,
00:59:12
Speaker
Sometimes you just don't deserve to have the answers to those questions, so just don't ask them. Just let it be a mystery and move on with your life.
00:59:23
Speaker
Yeah, so for those who have kind of maybe those unfortunate encounters or are given, you know, if we want to put a positive spin on it, are given the opportunity to educate. Yeah. What, how have you kind of, I know you said you've just prepared yourself emotionally, what words have you thought of to say in moments like that, or what advice would you give to intended parents who maybe, I mean, like you said, that was a fear, right?
00:59:51
Speaker
when you're going to register, when you're showing up to hospital classes and you're not obviously pregnant or you know things like that. What are some, what advice would you give or words that you would maybe give to that situation? That's a good question. Honestly I'm so struggling with that piece. Yeah. I do think you know one of the things I did during the surrogacy journey piece
01:00:16
Speaker
was choosing when to acknowledge that I am the intended parent and you know the big registry is one of them you know I wish that there was more inclusivity in this parenthood journey and that's something I'm really hoping to advocate for moving forward and use my platform and my marketing expertise for too is
01:00:37
Speaker
if bye-bye baby you know when you register when you sign up to work with a consultant to help you with your registry like if there was a button on there that just said you know how are you expecting or like you know is there an option for like indicating that i am of intended parents through surrogacy right like don't you don't need to show me the maternity wear you don't need to show me the like what can i opt out of right i was choosing
01:01:02
Speaker
not to breastfeed or use my carrier's milk. So can you show me more things about formula? Like could they customize that experience to what the process for the parenthood journey looks like? That's something, you know, I hope to see change societally or micro with certain brands and organizations across this parenthood journey.
01:01:26
Speaker
But I think in terms of how to handle those situations, it's through honesty and vulnerability. And I think people respond to not necessarily being corrected, but you just answer your version of the story. So, hey, I'm actually
01:01:43
Speaker
the mom I'm expecting through where I had my son through a surrogate, you know, most people hopefully have heard the word surrogate. So their definition or connotation might be different around what that means. But you know, just that simple answer. And if they want to ask follow up questions, and if you want to answer those or not, that's where it gets a little dicey. But I think owning your truth, owning your truth that you are a mother through gestational surrogacy,
01:02:13
Speaker
Um, and then seeing their reaction and sometimes people are like, shut up. And I like, I don't know what that is. Or, Oh, I shouldn't have said what I said. Or they get there. Some people are genuinely curious and they kind of push and prod and it can be comfortable or uncomfortable depending on the situation. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh my goodness. Well, good for you for, for handling that as best as you could at the time, especially with it being just so flat. Um,
01:02:42
Speaker
One of the things that I know you've also been advocating for is just kind of the inequity that is, you know, people of color within the infertility world. Tell me more about that. What made you passionate about that? Obviously you are a woman of color yourself. So, you know, you experienced your own, you know, kind of looking around and, you know, being like, Hey, what's going on here? Yep, absolutely. So,
01:03:09
Speaker
For anyone who's listening to the podcast version. I am a South Asian Pakistani Muslim woman grew up mostly in Texas and you know something I just as a personal
01:03:21
Speaker
perspective I've been really passionate about in general outside of surrogacy is just this idea of representation. Representation in storytelling, representation in certainly parenthood experiences. And so when I found myself in this situation, I looked around when I was on the surrogacy websites, when I was uncovering what surrogacy means, and even on like IVF Instagram and surrogacy Instagram accounts, it was very white.
01:03:48
Speaker
And I was seeking out stories that were similar to mine. And honestly, I really just didn't find them. Celebrities aside, I saw some news articles for local communities, things like that, of whether it was the gestational carrier or whether it was the intended parents who were not white or of color.
01:04:11
Speaker
They became the exception, not the rule. The rule seemed to be, and you know, it honestly felt awkward. And it felt like, you know, this is not necessarily a place where I see myself, but it is a place that I need to be in because this is how I'm pursuing my family. So like, it is what it is at the time. But you know, when I reflect on it, you know, there with surrogate solutions, one of the things was we had a Facebook group
01:04:39
Speaker
where it was for intended parents and I understand there's a separate one for surrogates too and you know I literally was clicking on people's profiles and other intended parents to see like who they are, where they're located, that type of a thing and there was another South Asian woman who was in the group at the time and we started messaging each other on Facebook and
01:05:00
Speaker
I don't remember if we both acknowledged that we were both South Asian or not. But I just was so curious. Who else is the type of people who are pursuing surrogacy or as intended parents? I just wanted to learn more about these people and had connected with a few different individuals. But for the most part, it was not surprising to me. It was more disappointing that there weren't more women of color on both sides of this as part of the process.
01:05:30
Speaker
Yeah. Why do you think that is? You know, I've been thinking about that one. I think one surrogacy is still really new in like the grander scheme of things in terms of how to have a family. And two, I think part of it becomes that you are what you see. So I do think that women of color may be less likely to pursue being a surrogate or being an intended parent because
01:06:00
Speaker
They don't know anybody who in their community has been a surrogate. I think that's also part of why I'm so open to sharing my story because I had no one. I still really don't know anyone, but this one person from the Facebook group.
01:06:17
Speaker
who looks like me who has been in the surrogacy world and had to and you know it's my understanding that a lot of people rightfully so want to be private about this so it's not that it's not happening necessarily it's just that I think that because of certain cultures there is cultural norms that prevent people from being comfortable and sharing that this is how they're becoming a parent
01:06:44
Speaker
And, oh, what will people say if they knew and there's a lot of like community perception. And so I do think that one, there's less individuals
01:06:58
Speaker
of color because there's less individuals of color. It's just a perpetuating situation. And then two, I think it's just because people aren't sharing enough for those who are people of color in this surrogacy world. They're just not wanting to share publicly because it's such a vulnerable, private, awkward, uncomfortable topic for them. Yeah, absolutely. What
01:07:20
Speaker
I mean, I know kind of your background with social media and marketing, so it's almost natural for you to eventually wanna share, but for those who maybe just aren't that comfortable, what advice would you give them as far as maybe just that first step of sharing how they got to where they are and just sharing their journey in general? Prepare yourself for, think ahead for the worst question.
01:07:48
Speaker
And one of the ones that I know many individuals who pursue surrogacy get in some form or fashion is the classic question of, why don't you just adopt? Oh, sure. Yeah. I saw this thing on Instagram recently that I was like, this is the best answer. Would you ask your friend who's announcing a pregnancy, who conceived naturally, why didn't you just adopt? Would you ask her that?
01:08:17
Speaker
And the answer is no, you wouldn't ask for that. But your friend who's pursuing a surrogacy or IVF or something else to have a biological child of their own, you feel that it's appropriate to ask, why don't you just adopt to them when you're not going to ask the person who's naturally conceiving and announcing that they have their, you know, growing a child. It just feels very invasive and people aren't really thinking through
01:08:44
Speaker
Like what do those words mean to a person who is experiencing infertility in some regard? And so, you know, my advice really in terms of those who want to figure out how they're going to communicate this to whomever in their lives or share more publicly or not is really, this sounds terrible to say, but like preparing what are the worst case scenario questions that you don't want to be asked and how are you going to handle them?
01:09:12
Speaker
And then you're going to be really surprised with how many people are just, okay, congratulations, like a basic congratulations, even though you were scared that they might ask you this something else. And then there's this third group of people who are going to be so proud of you for pursuing this path to parenthood.
01:09:30
Speaker
that maybe is a journey less walked or figuring it out, like finding your path, people are going to surprise you. People really surprised me in their positive reactions and their reactions to genuinely know more as opposed to like poking the bear and like asking a great question type of a thing. And the idea of
01:09:54
Speaker
So many people were who I didn't know went through IVF or someone sister went through IVF. They, you know, were like, Oh, there's so much, like, I saw what that took. And you're doing that plus more, like, just to understand all of the different paths to parenthood that other people might have someone else in their life or themselves, pursuing people start, would you share your story? All of a sudden people feel comfortable to share their stories with you.
01:10:25
Speaker
So be prepared for that. If you're emotionally ready to hear sometimes positive or negative stories of what those paths look like for people, just if you share your story, people will share theirs. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, and what a community that is opened up when you do. Right? Yeah. I've deepened some relationships that I didn't know I could through this process of sharing. Absolutely. Oh my gosh.
01:10:53
Speaker
Well, you've already given so much of your time to just champion your son and your journey and then just your love for this work. What would you say to yourself? What one piece of advice would you give to yourself if you were to go all the way back to day one?
01:11:16
Speaker
OK, so what does day one mean to you, Whitney? Which day one? Oh, great. Oh, good question. Great question. Oh, good for you. Let's go both day ones. Let's go day one. You have just found out you're going to have to do an alternate alternative pursuing of being a parent. And then day one of your journey of just Katie and, you know, going through your beautiful journey of creating your sweet Isa.
01:11:45
Speaker
Yes, okay. So day one, finding out that I can't carry. I would say the advice I have is inform yourself of all of options, but like in terms of like, educate yourself on all the things that can happen with surrogacy. So truly, you know, you could end up having twins, you could, your carrier might need to have a c-section, all of the things that
01:12:12
Speaker
could happen on a surrogacy journey understanding what the match process looks like truly educating yourself on the pieces of the puzzle and like different pieces are going to come together on your journey differently than mine so i'd say my advice is like learn the surrogacy industry and i know that's overwhelming and i learned
01:12:33
Speaker
So many like GC, IP, didn't know what that was. MFM, didn't know all these terms, but I learned because I wanted to be informed. I didn't want to feel confused, so I kept learning and I think the circuit solutions
01:12:50
Speaker
Coordinator also helped in terms of educating me and then I would learn something from her and I would go like Google it and learn more and understand like what. OK, so most surrogates have to go see an MFM because it's a IVF pregnancy and just learned so much. Just keep learning so you feel informed. Day one advice to the start of the match or like once you're matched. OK, so this goes back to what we were talking about earlier. I'm typing.
01:13:19
Speaker
My biggest advice, one of the biggest growing pieces of like just growth, personal growth I had was learning to give up control. I am blessed typing now because in general in my life, because of surrogacy, because I've learned that I could not control
01:13:44
Speaker
the situation beyond of course there's medical appointments. There's all these things that I'm not going to tell Katie exactly what the eat for breakfast lunch and dinner. I cannot control what's going to happen medically. I'm not, I can't control these things. So learning to give up control and trust and truly trust the carrier as well as trust the medical process
01:14:08
Speaker
You know, trust all the people involved. The coordinator who is smarter than me has done this before. You know, trust and faith that what all these pieces of the puzzle will come together for something beautiful that you're, you're really trying for. So it's just, that's my biggest advice. Like be willing to give up control and hopefully there's a, there's a great outcome on the other end of it. Absolutely.
01:14:36
Speaker
Absolutely. Oh my gosh, you're so right. That trust piece is so, so important to the whole process. All right. My last question, which as everybody knows, I have a beautiful codependent relationship with my sweet cup of coffee. So I always love to ask literally or figuratively what filled your cup this morning.
01:14:59
Speaker
Copy. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yep. We don't function without it. Well, no, absolutely not. Miriam, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for continuing to share your story and spreading your love for the amazing thing that is surrogacy and all that goes involved, that is involved. I'm so grateful for you. So grateful for Katie.
01:15:26
Speaker
And just thank you, thank you, thank you so, so much. We are so happy for you and your sweet family. And I am just so appreciative of all that you are doing to just champion what this amazing industry is. So thank you. Thank you, Whitney.
01:15:47
Speaker
You have just finished listening to an episode of me, you, and who. To find out more about egg donor and surrogate solutions, go to www.CreateAHappyFamily.com.