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Vice Media Comes For The Queens
51 Plays4 years ago
Pickminique writes an ass-garbage article. "Brutal Relationship Advice for Women from the Internet's Most Ruthless Dating Site"
00:00 - "tOxiC MiSaNdRy". Girl, we trolling. Double standards in media response to us vs the manosphere.
05:00 - Apparently it's weird to evalute men before deciding to be emotionally attached to them. Boiling Frog theory.
09:35 - It's not all men, but which men? The media likes to gaslight women out of their boundaries.
12:00 - Subbie Feedback!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Vice Article Critique
00:00:05
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy.
00:00:08
Speaker
I'm your host, Ro.
00:00:10
Speaker
I'm Savannah.
00:00:11
Speaker
And this is Lilith.
00:00:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:00:13
Speaker
We're going to address that Vice article that was put out about the Female Dating Strategy.
00:00:19
Speaker
There's a lot of stuff.
00:00:20
Speaker
up in there that quite frankly is very dishonest in its coverage and in other ways very offensive.
00:00:26
Speaker
So we thought we would address it on the podcast.
00:00:28
Speaker
I know there were some write-ups on the subreddit as well, but just to address it and so you can kind of hear directly from us what's really, really not true here, just kind of examine how the media builds these narratives to say, you know, whatever they want, regardless of your intent.
00:00:42
Speaker
Let's kick it off here.
00:00:43
Speaker
The title of the article is Brutal Relationship Advice for Women from the Internet's Most Ruthless Dating Site.
00:00:51
Speaker
I mean, and then the sub, the subtitle is, you know, female dating strategy looks like blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:00:56
Speaker
But critics say its philosophy is nothing more than toxic misandry.
Media Misrepresentation and Double Standards
00:01:02
Speaker
Okay, get fucked.
00:01:04
Speaker
Like, I mean, what I really find offensive is this picture of a woman hunchbacked over this laptop.
00:01:12
Speaker
And I mean, they're clearly trying to make her look like an incel, like a fem cell.
00:01:16
Speaker
They're trying to make her look deranged, yeah.
00:01:19
Speaker
And the quotes that they've pulled out.
00:01:20
Speaker
It's quite insidious what they've done because taken out of context, those quotes would seem like, yeah, we are, you know, misandrous because there's no context to, you know, if we look at the posts that are made on FDS, some of them are essays, right?
00:01:35
Speaker
And they provide a lot of context, but she's literally, or, you know, whoever, I'm guessing she, you know, signs off,
00:01:42
Speaker
But she's literally picked out, you know, phrases that without context will convey that toxic misandering quotation mark.
00:01:50
Speaker
And the only thing I noticed, too, is especially bad faith actors, they can't tell when we're clearly joking or trolling and then when it's serious.
00:01:57
Speaker
And that was kind of that's actually been the funniest thing about watching men and what we call pickneys react to us because sometimes we're clearly fucking trolling.
00:02:08
Speaker
Right.
00:02:09
Speaker
and they take it as if it's dead serious and then spread it all over the place.
00:02:14
Speaker
Like, hey, do you believe these crazy people?
00:02:17
Speaker
And like a lot, sometimes it's just mirroring things that were said in the manosphere, but they don't get the irony because women are used to hearing these kinds of, this kind of rhetoric all the time.
00:02:28
Speaker
If you're a woman, you've been on the internet at any length of time, you're going to hear this level of
00:02:34
Speaker
vitriol when it comes to misogyny.
Societal Reactions to Female Dating Behaviors
00:02:36
Speaker
So anything that's like even closely approaching something that's critical of men, a fraction of which most women experience online, they panic because they're not used to hearing it.
00:02:47
Speaker
Right.
00:02:47
Speaker
So if we just say like, yeah, you should keep, you know, you should keep men in scrotation, like kind of being funny.
00:02:53
Speaker
But, you know, actually, I would say we,
00:02:55
Speaker
we are kind of, we do encourage like you to date multiple people, but it's nothing different than all these guys talking about keeping a harem and like a gaggle of hoes in every area code.
00:03:04
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:03:05
Speaker
So sometimes it's just like, wow, like now everybody's decided to be outraged, right?
00:03:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:10
Speaker
Like, my problem with this article is it just reinforces the whole thing where when a man does something misogynistic or shitty, like, nobody cares, but as soon as a woman does something even 1% as bad as what men do all of the time, all of a sudden then it's a bad thing, right?
00:03:26
Speaker
Like, people used to say, oh, like, women can't be incels until they started to realize that the incel could be a label that could be
00:03:34
Speaker
used to insult women, right?
00:03:37
Speaker
So then they're like, okay, now women can be insults because now I can use it against you.
00:03:41
Speaker
Or, you know, male promiscuity, nothing wrong with that.
00:03:45
Speaker
But if a woman wants to go on, you know, dates with more than one person at any given period of time, oh my gosh, like you're dehumanizing men and blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:03:54
Speaker
Like,
00:03:54
Speaker
So it's frustrating when men can just basically do whatever they want to women and face no criticism.
00:04:00
Speaker
And when we criticize them, that doesn't go anywhere.
00:04:02
Speaker
But when we mimic them or are ironic about it or make fun of them by sort of like repeating what they do, you know, using irony, then that gets, okay, now suddenly that's a bad thing now that women are doing it.
00:04:14
Speaker
I would say they get criticism, but they get more empathy.
00:04:17
Speaker
And this author in particular wrote articles about incels and was like all about having empathy for these guys who flat out hate women and wanted like the government to distribute us and who have committed hate crimes.
00:04:30
Speaker
So I just kind of think the approach to how sometimes they're criticizing female dating strategy as if like we're outrageous for feeling the things we feel is
00:04:41
Speaker
And while at the same time being horribly sympathetic to the Manosphere people as if like these are just lost guys instead of bad actors and dangerous people like who very much take seriously the things that they're saying.
00:04:54
Speaker
There's a clearly a double standard there.
00:04:56
Speaker
All right.
00:04:56
Speaker
So, so the first paragraph on first scroll, female dating strategy looks like any other straight women's self-help site between its bright pink borders.
00:05:05
Speaker
You'll see a selection of empowering memes, a bustling advice forum and articles on getting over heartbreak.
00:05:11
Speaker
You'll see women don't owe you shit slogans and pastel colored platitudes about becoming your best self.
Importance of Cautious Relationships
00:05:17
Speaker
And first of all, that women don't owe you shit.
00:05:18
Speaker
That was shout out to Halle Berry.
00:05:19
Speaker
Cause that's actually where that came from.
00:05:23
Speaker
Queen mother.
00:05:23
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:05:25
Speaker
And then she goes on to say the core message behind it all.
00:05:28
Speaker
Men are brain dead and ass garbage and they need to be ruthlessly evaluated before you form an emotional attachment.
00:05:34
Speaker
First of all, fact.
00:05:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:37
Speaker
Imagine like thinking it's a bad thing that you should evaluate men before forming an emotional attachment.
00:05:43
Speaker
I'm still crying at the ass garbage because I'm like, I don't know where that came from.
00:05:46
Speaker
It was probably... I don't know where it came from either.
00:05:48
Speaker
You can find... The thing is, because it's Reddit, and if you're on Reddit, you could go to any sub and you'll find whatever you're looking for, right?
00:05:56
Speaker
Because it's an open public forum.
00:05:58
Speaker
We, as much as possible, try to curate our comments, but we have plenty of people that make it through the newbie flare.
00:06:04
Speaker
And they say whatever, right?
00:06:05
Speaker
They say inflammatory stuff.
00:06:07
Speaker
And so...
00:06:08
Speaker
I'm sure, like, if you look at it, I'm sure somebody said it, but it kind of cracks me up that it's more or less, you know, they're running with this in particular.
00:06:14
Speaker
And I think, you know, like the next line, even if you think you've met a decent one, you should remain on your guard.
00:06:20
Speaker
It's almost comes across as, you know, we are being almost paranoid.
00:06:26
Speaker
Even though it's been well documented that sometimes in, especially in intimate relationships, which are actually the most dangerous place for a woman to be in, a woman is more likely to be murdered or raped or attacked by a man that she knows than anywhere else.
00:06:42
Speaker
It just seems incredibly dismissive of a lot of women's experiences.
00:06:47
Speaker
You know, we've all heard of that or had that relationship where everything was great for the first three, six, you know, 12 months.
00:06:55
Speaker
And then all of a sudden we're in a relationship with somebody that we don't recognize.
00:06:59
Speaker
And this is, you know, well documented in books like Why Does He Do That, for example, where...
00:07:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's like abuse creep that happens.
00:07:06
Speaker
Abuse creep, like, it's a real thing.
00:07:09
Speaker
That is how they lure people in, by being nice to them, by making them feel on top of the world.
00:07:14
Speaker
You know, love bombing.
00:07:16
Speaker
Abusive guys don't punch you in the face on the first date, right?
00:07:19
Speaker
It's like the boiling frog theory, where if you put a frog in a pot of hot water, it'll jump out.
00:07:24
Speaker
But if you put a frog in a pot of cold water,
00:07:27
Speaker
and then slowly turn up the aggression and the heat, then a lot of times it'll boil to death.
00:07:31
Speaker
So the on guard portion is because of the fact that you can have abuse creep.
00:07:36
Speaker
It's never that bad until it is bad suddenly, until suddenly you're boiling alive and you're like, how did I get here?
00:07:41
Speaker
And that's how these guys work.
00:07:42
Speaker
And if you're not aware of that, you'll start to always look at the first three months when they were love bombing you as reflective of their character, rather than evaluating them on a long-term basis, which needs to happen for your own self-protection.
00:07:56
Speaker
Yeah, and so then, by extension, by saying, oh, even if you think you've met a decent one, you should remain on your guard, and then framing that as though that's unreasonable, it's so insulting to the millions of women out there who have had exactly that experience, where, yeah, he seems decent at first, and then you let you guard down, and that's when the abuse starts.
00:08:15
Speaker
Yeah, if you want to protect yourself from abuse, yeah, you should have your guard up.
00:08:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think we're really big advocates of men showing their character slowly over time and really, really almost ignoring their behavior during the first three months.
00:08:30
Speaker
I mean, there's certain markers that you should reach, but really, really saying, hey, the person you meet in the first three months, that's a representative of who they are, the person you're going to meet over the next season.
00:08:41
Speaker
pay attention to when to these little red flags that seem small to you or that you justify in your head because those things more than likely grow into big issues along the line.
00:08:53
Speaker
Because if they're on their best behavior in the first three months and they're already showing what we would call yellow and red flags, then it will only escalate from there.
00:09:02
Speaker
So yeah, I think I agreed with you, Lilith, that they're really trying to make it seem as if that's an unreasonable...
00:09:09
Speaker
unreasonable expectation or unreasonable vetting strategy for women to have.
00:09:12
Speaker
But again, Vice hates women having boundaries like a lot of these media magazines I've come to understand do.
00:09:18
Speaker
But every time we make, they say you have a choice, but if we make boundaries, suddenly everything that women want to do is crazy and unreasonable.
00:09:24
Speaker
And I don't like being gaslit like this by this kind of media article because I actually think they're putting forth a dangerous idea that women don't have a right to do that, right?
00:09:33
Speaker
Yeah, agreed.
00:09:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:34
Speaker
Moving on to the next paragraph, you know, thinking not all men in quotation marks is, you know, detrimental to your safety reasons one poster.
00:09:44
Speaker
I feel like this is aged really badly given the, you know, events that have happened in the UK and the fallout where women en masse are essentially saying, look, you know, we, you know, we're not saying it's all men, but we don't know which men.
00:10:00
Speaker
So therefore, you know,
00:10:01
Speaker
you know, it's wise to be wary of all men because it isn't easy to distinguish.
00:10:08
Speaker
And it sort of goes back to the previous paragraph where, you know, they're saying, even if you've met a decent one, you, again, it isn't always possible to tell.
00:10:16
Speaker
You know, women, you know, have, you know, suffered abuse at the hands of their husbands, boyfriends, even their friends, their, you know, their fathers, you know, people who, you know, they,
00:10:26
Speaker
you know, they thought would, you know, I guess, you know, protect them and respect them and take care of them when they're vulnerable.
00:10:32
Speaker
Police officers.
00:10:33
Speaker
Police officers.
00:10:34
Speaker
Exactly.
00:10:34
Speaker
So this part has aged very, very badly.
00:10:37
Speaker
Very badly.
00:10:38
Speaker
I mean, just considering a lot of women just saying, hey, it's not like these guys are running around with a handlebar mustache and black clothes,
00:10:47
Speaker
looking like villains, right?
00:10:49
Speaker
To the average woman, these guys don't necessarily present immediate red flags to us.
00:10:54
Speaker
And a lot of that has to do with, quite frankly, I think a lot of it has to do with articles like these, where they gaslight women out of their self-protective instinct and second-guessing themselves when they encounter things that should be
FDS Community and Systemic Relationship Issues
00:11:06
Speaker
deal breakers.
00:11:06
Speaker
And this is why I, I mean, this is why I think it's so important for us to address this publicly, because I feel like this is exactly the kind of thing we're talking about when it comes to the media, where they are so
00:11:17
Speaker
They're always saying how we have choices.
00:11:21
Speaker
And then when we don't make choices, they think we should.
00:11:23
Speaker
They're always saying that women's boundaries are wrong.
00:11:27
Speaker
Like even self-protective boundaries.
00:11:28
Speaker
I don't understand it.
00:11:30
Speaker
Self-protective boundaries that don't even hurt other people.
00:11:33
Speaker
And these aren't like outrageous ones, quite frankly.
00:11:35
Speaker
Yeah, we're just saying block and delete.
00:11:37
Speaker
Like our boundaries are not even like causing harm to other people.
00:11:41
Speaker
It's entirely about our own protection.
00:11:43
Speaker
This is not like the red pill where they're saying, oh, I'm going to videotape every sexual encounter so I don't get accused of rape.
00:11:48
Speaker
We're just saying, yeah, be reasonably on your guard.
00:11:52
Speaker
Look for those red flags.
00:11:54
Speaker
That's just basic self-preservation advice.
00:11:56
Speaker
That's what you have to do.
00:11:58
Speaker
So, okay.
00:11:59
Speaker
So moving on.
00:12:00
Speaker
FDS has helped my self-confidence tremendously, says Kristen, who has been an FDS subscriber for 14 months.
00:12:06
Speaker
She credits the subreddit, which encourages self-development over finding a man, for pushing her into therapy, business training, and helping her to find a new job.
00:12:14
Speaker
My self-esteem has been nothing always, she tells Vice over Reddit PMs.
00:12:17
Speaker
But through FDS, I realized self-improvement should be the main priority, which I appreciate the really good feedback that we got from this person.
00:12:24
Speaker
And I have to say, part of the reason that we keep doing this is because of
00:12:28
Speaker
the feedback that we're getting for women who are like, finally, I feel such a relief off my shoulders to know that other women even virtually support me, right?
00:12:37
Speaker
A lot of women are out here with no support.
00:12:39
Speaker
And so FDS has kind of filled that space to say, even if you don't know us, like we believe in you, there's people here that have skills that can help you.
00:12:48
Speaker
We can talk through issues that you're having.
00:12:50
Speaker
It's become a really, really good support system.
00:12:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:53
Speaker
And, you know, the most important thing, I think the most invaluable thing about FDS is that we, you know, we center women first.
00:13:01
Speaker
And this is what angers the men over Reddit who feel very shut out from the subreddit.
00:13:07
Speaker
But it's like women are put first.
00:13:09
Speaker
You know, we will, you know, we will also tell you, you know, girl, you need to, you know, block and delete, but we'll also celebrate with you.
00:13:16
Speaker
We'll also, you know, commiserate with you when, you know, the guy who you thought was high value turns out to be low value.
00:13:23
Speaker
Like, you know, we will put you first.
00:13:25
Speaker
There's no, and that is a really, really unique thing.
00:13:28
Speaker
And, you know, like you said, Ro, that, you know, not, you know, not many people have that.
00:13:32
Speaker
Having, you know, that sort of, you know, environment when I was going through my own, you know, relationship, it would have been really, really useful to, you know, for me to understand that actually this is not necessarily a me problem.
00:13:47
Speaker
This is more systemic than I thought.
00:13:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:50
Speaker
And I, that's a big sticking point with, and we can maybe go further in this, this article, but I think there's a lot of pretending that a lot of these issues that women have with men are individual problems.
00:14:01
Speaker
But when we talk about how almost all the women we know have experienced some form of sexual assault, catcalling,
00:14:07
Speaker
emotional abuse, neglect, things like that in their relationships.
00:14:11
Speaker
That's patriarchy.
00:14:12
Speaker
All those things combined to me is patriarchy.
00:14:15
Speaker
And it seems like they're trying to always make it like a personal problem of these individual women rather than... Oh, you're just picking the wrong guy.
00:14:23
Speaker
Right.
00:14:23
Speaker
When women talk about the bad experiences that we've had, it's like, oh, well, you know, you're just... It's the law of attraction.
00:14:29
Speaker
Like, it's because you're trash.
00:14:30
Speaker
That's why you're attracting all these trash men.
00:14:32
Speaker
No, it's because men are objectively trash.
00:14:35
Speaker
They're
00:14:36
Speaker
That is just a fact.
00:14:37
Speaker
It's a pervasive cultural problem.
00:14:39
Speaker
And also like my, you know, the excuse that angers me the most is, oh, he'll treat the woman he wants right, but that woman's not you.
00:14:46
Speaker
Therefore, he didn't treat you right.
00:14:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's all victim- It's just complete nonsense.
00:14:50
Speaker
It's just blaming the woman all over again.
00:14:52
Speaker
But yeah, but moving on.
00:14:54
Speaker
Celeste, another subscriber, agrees that FDS has improved her confidence, adding that it's also given her a new perspective on dating.
00:15:01
Speaker
I'm taking a break from dating for a while, she explains, but when I get back to it, I will be vetting people much more thoroughly and cutting them off with the first sign of disrespect.
00:15:08
Speaker
I don't want to waste any more of my time.
00:15:10
Speaker
Great.
00:15:11
Speaker
Awesome.
00:15:12
Speaker
Like, that's, I don't see anything wrong with that.
00:15:14
Speaker
Yay, Celeste.
00:15:15
Speaker
Queen, yeah, Queen Celeste, we bow to you.
00:15:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:19
Speaker
Like, I don't... Even this, I know some of the users are saying they kind of cut off some of the things I was saying and to spin the narrative.
00:15:26
Speaker
So you see how they give them a little tiny paragraph about how this is actually improving them and then go in a tirade about how crappy we are.
00:15:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:33
Speaker
But, you know, I feel like... It's lip service.
00:15:35
Speaker
Yeah, it's lip service.
00:15:36
Speaker
Yeah, she's just paying lip service like, oh, yeah, I'm just going to quickly acknowledge that a lot of women do think that FDS is great, but now I'm going to spend like 80% of my article talking about why it's trash or why they're wrong for thinking that FDS is a good thing.
00:15:48
Speaker
Right.
00:15:49
Speaker
So the next paragraph, and I know someone posted screenshots of...
00:15:54
Speaker
of Dominique contacting FDS.
00:15:58
Speaker
According to its anonymous founders, FDS was created to counter the misogyny of the manosphere.
00:16:03
Speaker
It wanted to offer women practical advice to deal with growing hostility from the men's rights movement while also building their self-esteem so they can thrive in an oppressively patriarchal society.
00:16:14
Speaker
I mean, fair enough.
00:16:15
Speaker
I would say it wasn't necessarily... Well, I don't know.
00:16:18
Speaker
Because again, there's sort of like the pre-jammies and average FDS.
00:16:24
Speaker
There's like the post-jammies and average FDS.
00:16:27
Speaker
So I don't really know exactly...
00:16:30
Speaker
you know, what it was, you know, before I got there.
00:16:34
Speaker
So, but I mean, as far as what from discussing, I think with, with jammies and average is that more or less there was a virulent stream of men on Reddit who would flood all the relationship and dating and women subs with their not all men and challenging women's boundaries all the time.
00:16:52
Speaker
And always trying to normalize really unreasonable things.
00:16:57
Speaker
You know, just going back, and I remember somebody citing this in particular about a woman who was pregnant and her husband had broken their dog's legs and a fit of rage had thrown the dog and broken the dog's legs.
00:17:08
Speaker
And it was almost like everybody in a relationship advice was like, well, you might be having some anger problems.
00:17:13
Speaker
You should go to counseling.
00:17:14
Speaker
And then a lot of the women were like, no, you're pregnant and you're at high risk for being abused.
00:17:20
Speaker
Get out of that situation.
00:17:21
Speaker
Why are these guys telling you to...
00:17:24
Speaker
in any way, shape or form, do anything but immediately even protect yourself.
00:17:28
Speaker
And that's the kind of thing that, you know, if you're a woman sharing advice from other women and know the statistics about how pregnant women are often at high risk for abuse, especially homicide, that you would see that as like a bellwether that this man is dangerous and to leave rather than all the men who are sympathizing with the man like, oh, he's probably just stressed out right now.
00:17:49
Speaker
I'm like, excuse me, why are you like, no, no,
Critique of Reddit and Media Narratives
00:17:52
Speaker
no, no.
00:17:52
Speaker
Full stop, leave.
00:17:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:54
Speaker
And then the women who say, no, just break up with him are always ridiculed of like, oh, people are always saying to break up on this website, blah, blah, blah.
00:18:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:02
Speaker
If you have to go to Reddit to talk about your relationship, it's probably too far gone to be saved.
00:18:06
Speaker
Okay.
00:18:07
Speaker
It's probably in its death throes, to be honest.
00:18:11
Speaker
It's already too late.
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah, like nobody goes to post, well, maybe like 1% of the people who post on Reddit have like a salvageable relationship.
00:18:19
Speaker
But by the time you have to go ask strangers like, hey, my boyfriend, you know, broke my dog's legs and, you know, shit on my bed and rubbed my face in it.
00:18:27
Speaker
Like, am I, you know, am I missing something?
00:18:30
Speaker
Like, you know, maybe I should... Sad part is that's not even an exaggeration about some of the stuff that you see on Reddit.
00:18:36
Speaker
I'm
00:18:36
Speaker
remember there was another one where I think a guy was poisoning smoothies his wife's smoothies or putting his cum in his wife's smoothies because he was mad at her like stuff like that oh did you read that one where he was like putting slugs in her food oh that's the one yeah and snails in her food and she got like a parasite and oh my god like just I'm not even exaggerating like that and that woman freaking stayed with that guy like by the end of it she was defending him and being like oh yeah we have issues we're just gonna work on it like oh my god oh
00:19:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:03
Speaker
So we exist because there's a whole lot of women who ain't going with that, who are just like, this is actually crazy.
00:19:09
Speaker
And you guys acting as if it's completely and totally normal to be grinding up slugs and putting it in your partner's morning drink are insane.
00:19:17
Speaker
So that, yeah.
00:19:18
Speaker
So that, as far as I know, there was, there was a general trend towards these female early subs.
00:19:24
Speaker
Um, and, and FDS was a part of that, uh, uh,
00:19:29
Speaker
trend.
00:19:30
Speaker
One of many subreddits that were women only.
00:19:33
Speaker
And now, now we're the only one left.
00:19:35
Speaker
It took off because I think, again, like when I think Jammies and Average kind of took it over, they created the rules, they started doing the flaring system, they started like a bunch of stuff I think that was written early on went viral.
00:19:45
Speaker
And so then that kind of compounded versus stuff like... And they got it locked down.
00:19:49
Speaker
Yeah, they locked down.
00:19:50
Speaker
Yeah, like by the time I came to FDS, it was already locked down.
00:19:53
Speaker
Like, I don't know anything about that old timey origins.
00:19:57
Speaker
When
00:19:57
Speaker
When FDS was in its primordial state.
00:20:00
Speaker
Chaotic primordial state.
00:20:02
Speaker
It was long before I joined.
00:20:05
Speaker
I remember when someone else, one of the other, you know, subreddits was like, I'm going in, guys.
00:20:09
Speaker
And then he skipped along and then came back to report and say, they've got it locked down tighter than Fort Knox.
00:20:17
Speaker
Yeah.
FDS Strategies and Misinterpretations
00:20:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:18
Speaker
That was sad.
00:20:23
Speaker
So, I mean, that's the only way to operate on Reddit.
00:20:25
Speaker
And I know there's a lot of other female-only subs that are coming to that conclusion now where they realize even on their subs, men are always in the comments like, not all men, or what about us?
00:20:34
Speaker
And you don't understand how men feel.
00:20:35
Speaker
And it's like, why are you on this female-only sub policing our thoughts?
00:20:39
Speaker
But anyways, next paragraph.
00:20:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:42
Speaker
So...
00:20:43
Speaker
The Manosphere has an army of men dedicated to creating new ways to exploit and abuse women.
00:20:48
Speaker
An FDS spokesperson tells Vice, we bring attention to women of the various ways men are exploiting us actively and passively so we can avoid it.
00:20:56
Speaker
Cool.
00:20:56
Speaker
Yeah, I don't see any problem with that.
00:20:58
Speaker
That's what we said.
00:20:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:00
Speaker
Also not a problem.
00:21:01
Speaker
And, you know, I'm kind of tired of the media more or less bearing their head in the sand about this having real implications in real life to people.
00:21:08
Speaker
Like, it's kind of funny to say, tee hee hee, look at these red pillars and these guys online.
00:21:12
Speaker
But this kind of rhetoric is actually seeping into the media and you're actually seeing a lot of it being picked up and canonized, right, in mainstream media.
00:21:23
Speaker
So there's creep with these guys outside of their little subreddit.
00:21:26
Speaker
It's real life creep and media creep.
00:21:28
Speaker
All right.
00:21:29
Speaker
So the site prides itself on its brutal realism about men, which translates to simplified categorizing.
00:21:36
Speaker
FDS believes that there are only two types, unworthy men known as low value men who have little money, ambition, and manners.
00:21:42
Speaker
They make you split the bill, reply late to your text messages, and propose park or drink dates rather than dinner.
00:21:49
Speaker
We actually have like four or five, but I think low value men and high value men is most popular.
00:21:52
Speaker
But we also have like negative value men, zero value men,
00:21:57
Speaker
And then just scrotes, right?
00:21:58
Speaker
Right.
00:22:01
Speaker
And these are just, they're shorthand, right?
00:22:03
Speaker
Yeah, they're shorthand to refer to general patterns and trends.
00:22:07
Speaker
You know, we'll see later in the article, but they talk about how, oh, like, it's immoral to categorize people into different categories or something like that.
00:22:17
Speaker
And it's like, no, it's not.
00:22:18
Speaker
No, it's not wrong to do that.
00:22:20
Speaker
Like, high value, low value.
00:22:22
Speaker
You know, they say, oh my gosh, like, they're worse than the manosphere because at least the manosphere rates women on a scale of 1 to 10 or something like that, which is like, okay, like, but these are not the same.
00:22:33
Speaker
Yeah, no, we have basic boundaries and they don't like our boundaries, right?
00:22:37
Speaker
And nothing on this low value men thing that we're asking for.
00:22:40
Speaker
It's not like we said low value men don't buy you a castle, right?
00:22:45
Speaker
within months of meeting you or like, I mean, these are very, very basic criteria.
00:22:51
Speaker
So a low value man who can't, you know, pay for your dinner or reply to your text on time or creates these lazy dates and just puts low effort into talking to you because they just want sex.
00:23:04
Speaker
That's not a hard barrier to overcome, right?
00:23:06
Speaker
That's
00:23:08
Speaker
Basic?
00:23:09
Speaker
100%.
00:23:09
Speaker
Yeah, that's not an impossible... Like, you can become a higher value man if you choose to.
00:23:17
Speaker
Just most of them choose not to.
00:23:18
Speaker
So that's on them.
00:23:19
Speaker
Right.
00:23:20
Speaker
Most of it's based on character and not necessarily...
00:23:23
Speaker
you know, all the superficial stuff that people try to claim.
00:23:26
Speaker
Like, listen, we don't police women in their wants.
00:23:29
Speaker
So if they're like, I want a six foot man with six figures, we're like, go ahead, queen.
00:23:34
Speaker
Right.
00:23:34
Speaker
We're not going to sit here and be like, oh, you don't deserve that.
00:23:37
Speaker
Or it's unrealistic for you to expect that.
00:23:38
Speaker
Or you can't have that.
00:23:39
Speaker
Like our whole thing is we are validating the things that women want and we don't care how you feel about it.
00:23:45
Speaker
Like it's not...
00:23:46
Speaker
It's not up to everyone else to keep policing women into low expectations.
00:23:50
Speaker
And I don't understand why media like this likes to continuously act as if us having any expectations at all is unreasonable.
00:23:57
Speaker
Okay, so next thing.
00:23:58
Speaker
High-belly men.
00:23:59
Speaker
But the next paraff, this is where the tone of the article changes.
00:24:02
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say.
00:24:04
Speaker
The first half up until this point, I'm like, okay, yeah, I mostly agree with that.
00:24:10
Speaker
But then once she says, like, high value man, on the other hand, worship the ground you walk on, as well as being honest, loyal, and consistent, they also shell out, paying you to have proper dinner dates and your own housekeeper, because he knows you're not a maid.
00:24:23
Speaker
And...
00:24:24
Speaker
Oh, it's so telling that she picked out the housekeeper as being a qualifier of a high value man when there's so many articles, so, so many on the subreddit of what makes a high value man and a man hiring you a housekeeper is not one of them.
00:24:41
Speaker
Right.
00:24:42
Speaker
It's like one of the ways he can show it, but it's not an indicator.
00:24:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:46
Speaker
Like, I think we had one article where we mentioned one time, and it wasn't even like, oh, a high-value man will buy you a housekeeper.
00:24:53
Speaker
No, it was in the context of if you're dating a guy and you find yourself arguing over chores and he doesn't want to do 50%, then his way of making up for that would be to hire a housekeeper to do, like, his portion or something because he doesn't see you as a maid.
00:25:06
Speaker
So she's taking that, like, line out of context.
00:25:09
Speaker
But when you take it out of context, it makes it seem like, oh, these women are so crazy thinking that, like, a guy's gonna hire a housekeeper, like, blah, blah, blah.
00:25:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean...
00:25:19
Speaker
Sorry.
00:25:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:25:22
Speaker
The strategies for securing a high-value man versus an high-value man.
00:25:26
Speaker
Don't like.
00:25:26
Speaker
So typo.
00:25:27
Speaker
The strategies for securing a high-value man are thorough and extensive.
00:25:32
Speaker
The FDS handbook lives across over 80 subreddit threads and, like the manosphere, comes complete with its own language.
00:25:38
Speaker
Pick niches are women who are desperate or who degrade themselves for men.
00:25:42
Speaker
Well, she puts in quotes, which I'm like...
00:25:44
Speaker
I don't know what she means by like putting degrade quote unquote themselves for men.
00:25:48
Speaker
This behavior can lead to cock home syndrome where they end up defending the worst men beyond all logic or reason.
00:25:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:54
Speaker
Like, like you pick Misha.
00:25:56
Speaker
Right.
00:25:57
Speaker
McMonique is one of these women who defend the worst men beyond all logic and reason, okay?
00:26:03
Speaker
The other thing, too, is, like, all Reddit subreddits have sublanguage.
00:26:06
Speaker
So I also think, again, they're trying to paint this idea that it's very sinister.
00:26:11
Speaker
Almost like a cult.
00:26:12
Speaker
As if every subreddit doesn't have its own sublanguage.
00:26:14
Speaker
Like, there's always shorthand.
00:26:16
Speaker
I mean, have you seen Wall Street Bets lately?
00:26:17
Speaker
Like, it's hilarious, but it's also...
00:26:19
Speaker
Yeah, but you don't see them being compared to the Manosphere.
00:26:22
Speaker
Like, the Manosphere subreddits are not the only ones that have their own in-group jargon.
00:26:26
Speaker
Like, every single group of people, online and offline, have their own sort of unique vocabulary.
00:26:32
Speaker
True.
00:26:33
Speaker
If you go into any organisation, I'm sure they will have a glossary of acronyms that only people within the organisation would understand.
00:26:41
Speaker
It's actually quite normal, to be fair.
00:26:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:45
Speaker
There's nothing sinister about it.
00:26:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:47
Speaker
It's a community building thing.
00:26:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:26:49
Speaker
And in order to level up from the state and achieve queen or dream girl status, women have to build their self-esteem and avoid scrotes, dickheads, otherwise known as most men.
00:26:59
Speaker
They can do this in a number of ways, including focusing on their career or having a few men in scrotation.
00:27:04
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:04
Speaker
I don't see what's wrong with any of that statement.
00:27:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:07
Speaker
And I don't necessarily say that we think the level up is pretty independent of how you are dating with men.
00:27:13
Speaker
So I maybe will say that is like the level up, yes, focusing on building your self-esteem, focusing on building your independence and creating a sense of boundaries.
00:27:23
Speaker
And then the dating part is also like once you get into dating to kind of help you vet through men quicker, right?
00:27:29
Speaker
Rather than getting too focused on one guy or letting one guy impact you too soon because you haven't let yet
00:27:38
Speaker
his character hasn't yet been revealed to you.
00:27:39
Speaker
So, but that's, again, we're not, again, I don't even think we're the only people that have come up with that to be fair.
00:27:44
Speaker
Like there's a lot of dating advice.
00:27:45
Speaker
Like, oh, date.
00:27:46
Speaker
And, and, and from listening to older women that used to be the normal thing was like, where you, you casually dated to a guy claimed you.
00:27:53
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:27:54
Speaker
This is what I was going to say.
00:27:55
Speaker
It was quite normal to be courted by several men.
00:28:01
Speaker
And I think especially if you are looking, it gives you perspective if you're seeing multiple people at the same time, but then people think that seeing multiple people is synonymous with having sex with all of them at once.
00:28:17
Speaker
which again, it feeds into attitudes about women's sexualities, but that's a topic for a different podcast.
00:28:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:25
Speaker
I feel like that paragraph specifically, if you are an FDSer, you won't see anything wrong with that.
00:28:30
Speaker
But if you're a pick me or like a scrote, you're going to read that and be like offended.
00:28:36
Speaker
Because the line of like, to level up to achieve queen or dream girl status, you mean I have to work on my self esteem?
00:28:43
Speaker
And I have to avoid men who are dickheads?
00:28:46
Speaker
Oh my gosh, they're saying that most men are dickheads?
00:28:48
Speaker
oh my gosh, that's so offensive.
00:28:50
Speaker
And the idea of women having multiple men in their like dating rotation that they're not having sex with makes sense to an FDSer, but is offensive to a low value man.
00:28:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:00
Speaker
Looking at how high value men respond to us versus low value men, and that might be its own show one day.
00:29:06
Speaker
I mean, you can definitely tell that, first of all, we touched a nerve, but also like this is not offensive to anybody, any man who is going to be good for you.
00:29:15
Speaker
quite frankly.
00:29:16
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:16
Speaker
So next paragraph FDS has tactics on practically everything, including the classiest way to ask for a napkin in a restaurant and the best way to put on a coat.
00:29:24
Speaker
There's even guidance on the dream girl way of listening to your partner secrets.
00:29:27
Speaker
You have to be silent for a bit and then say, thank you for telling me that.
00:29:31
Speaker
So this is like just soft skill stuff, right?
00:29:33
Speaker
Like that's,
00:29:34
Speaker
Okay, so for the tactics, I've literally never seen the article she's speaking of.
00:29:39
Speaker
That made me groan because, first of all, like, she's talking about classy first date tips, which is one that I did end up going through the
Rationale Behind Dating Rules
00:29:47
Speaker
handbook to reread.
00:29:48
Speaker
How to ask for a napkin and put on a coat.
00:29:50
Speaker
That's something that's mentioned one time in one article and, like, never again.
00:29:54
Speaker
So, you know, there's other things we talk about in FDS way more frequently than that that she never talks about.
00:30:00
Speaker
Right, and it's more or less, like, again...
00:30:03
Speaker
We don't step on women's expressions of femininity or gender expression, if that makes sense.
00:30:10
Speaker
So there's been a criticism before, especially coming from radical feminists, because there are some women that will talk about their fitness journey or them changing their hair or the way that they speak and feeling more comfortable in that presentation of themselves.
00:30:23
Speaker
We don't criticize women who want to do that.
00:30:24
Speaker
We don't necessarily make it prescriptive that you have to do that because there's other women who are like, I am so not into the feminine crap.
00:30:31
Speaker
And that's fine too.
00:30:32
Speaker
Like everyone is deserving of a high value male, you know, regardless of how you present yourself.
00:30:39
Speaker
And that, you know, if you're hyper-
00:30:43
Speaker
feminine versus women who are more like, you know, nonconforming, it doesn't really matter for all intents and purposes to follow FDS.
00:30:49
Speaker
Like I think there's wisdom in all of those different presentations, but if women want who like that sort of thing, want to talk about that we, again, we don't standard shame for them.
00:30:59
Speaker
If that's the standard that they want to hold for themselves because it makes them feel good.
00:31:02
Speaker
And they feel like I want to present a way that I want to be treated and I want to be treated like this, then having these close
00:31:08
Speaker
I guess, quote-unquote, class signifiers or classy ways of doing things as a way to signify this is the level of treatment that I expect.
00:31:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:16
Speaker
On to the next.
00:31:19
Speaker
Women are warned off having sex in the first three months of courtship and told to avoid at all costs moving in with a boyfriend before marriage.
00:31:25
Speaker
After all, for men, a live-in girlfriend is just like a video game achievement that unlocks regular free sex in half of your rent.
00:31:31
Speaker
Why would they want to marry you after that?
00:31:33
Speaker
I mean, yeah.
00:31:35
Speaker
Like, facts.
00:31:38
Speaker
Doesn't the science say that?
00:31:40
Speaker
They've done studies where they say that cohabitation actually lessens your chance of getting married.
00:31:45
Speaker
It's not us saying that.
00:31:47
Speaker
Yeah, and increases your chance of getting divorced.
00:31:49
Speaker
And, you know, she also completely glosses over the fact that, you know, sex, I mean, you know, this is an issue with vice in general who are, you know, trying to push, you know, BDSM down everyone's throats.
00:32:03
Speaker
But this completely glosses over the fact that sex is...
00:32:07
Speaker
is scientifically risky for women, even more so than men.
00:32:11
Speaker
This isn't just about us being prudes.
00:32:14
Speaker
Men can't be tested for HPV, for example, but they can spread it to women.
00:32:19
Speaker
And just, yeah, the physical differences between us, and I know everyone's trying to pretend that it doesn't matter, but I don't like the idea that I have to be, that I can't
00:32:29
Speaker
operate in a place that feels comfortable for me because it's somehow less feminist to prioritize what I think is the best way to operate based on my risk factors and what I'm likely to get out of the situation.
00:32:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:43
Speaker
Anyways, next paragraph.
00:32:45
Speaker
Needless to say, FDS is divisive and not just among men's rights activists.
00:32:49
Speaker
Many of their views come across as... This is my favorite one, actually.
00:32:52
Speaker
This is the money shot right here.
00:32:55
Speaker
This is the money shot.
00:32:56
Speaker
Many, many of their views come across as simplistic, strange, and mean-spirited.
00:33:01
Speaker
Women are told not to date any... I'm a strange bitch.
00:33:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:04
Speaker
Women are told not to date men with mental illnesses, for example, or anyone struggling with their finances.
00:33:10
Speaker
One-night stands are a no-no, as are men with small penises.
00:33:13
Speaker
Forced vasectomies are good, but sex work and pornography are bad.
00:33:17
Speaker
The moderators are also proudly kink-shaming, claiming that BDSM and polyamory are disrespectful and only ever explored for the man's benefit, rather than because a woman might have a genuine interest in it herself.
00:33:31
Speaker
What?
00:33:31
Speaker
Okay, so this is a complete car crash of... A paragraph.
00:33:38
Speaker
A paragraph, to be honest.
00:33:40
Speaker
There's a lot here.
00:33:41
Speaker
Just don't even know, like, you know, where to start.
00:33:44
Speaker
You know, the post where she linked to when talking about, you know, forced vasectomies was actually in the context of, um, I think it was an American lawmaker raised a bill about, you know, saying that men over 50 should have mandatory vasectomies.
00:33:59
Speaker
And it was more framed in a way where it said, you know, look, men don't like their bodies being controlled, so why is it okay to control women's
Media Criticism and Personal Boundaries
00:34:09
Speaker
bodies?
00:34:09
Speaker
It was framed in that context.
00:34:11
Speaker
It wasn't like saying... Yeah, it was a protest... It was a protest bill, essentially.
00:34:16
Speaker
It was not serious.
00:34:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:18
Speaker
We were not saying, oh, yeah, let's go ahead and let the government.
00:34:21
Speaker
First of all, it would never have passed because it's like all male lawmakers in Alabama.
00:34:26
Speaker
OK, so, yeah, like that would have it would have never passed.
00:34:29
Speaker
It was just to prove a point over like, oh, you have no problem with legislating women's bodies.
00:34:34
Speaker
Let's show, you know, how you might feel if, you know, we legislate men's bodies.
00:34:38
Speaker
And they have a bunch of priceless clips for men after that saying like, oh, well, I don't want to be told by the state what to do with my body.
00:34:46
Speaker
Gee, you think you think.
00:34:48
Speaker
think that women might have similar feelings.
00:34:50
Speaker
Right.
00:34:50
Speaker
And we're not saying it's good for them to get vasectomies.
00:34:53
Speaker
I'm like, that's the other thing.
00:34:54
Speaker
I was like, it's saying that we're saying it's good.
00:34:56
Speaker
I was like, the entire article she links is just everyone saying, this is hilarious, right?
00:35:02
Speaker
Like, let them feel the force of the state on their bodily autonomy for once, right?
00:35:07
Speaker
But not because anybody seriously thinks this should pass.
00:35:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:10
Speaker
Like, there's no one from FDS going out there hunting men with knives, like, you know, snipping their tubes against their will, okay?
00:35:17
Speaker
Like...
00:35:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:20
Speaker
And then the first paragraph about her, like, women are told not to date men with mental illness or struggling with finances or who have small penises.
00:35:28
Speaker
And I'm like, uh... That's not strange.
00:35:31
Speaker
Where's the problem, sis?
00:35:33
Speaker
Because I'm not hearing it.
00:35:35
Speaker
Like, what was the tweet?
00:35:36
Speaker
It was like, oh, Vice thinks it's strange that women don't want to date guys with small penises who are broke and mentally ill and also who are sexually aroused by beating them.
00:35:46
Speaker
Like, weird, huh?
00:35:47
Speaker
Like...
00:35:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:50
Speaker
I want to laugh, but I'm also kind of angry at it because like I said, this is how the media continuously gaslights women out of basic standards, right?
00:35:59
Speaker
Like, listen, not every woman needs a guy with a massive penis or anything like that.
00:36:03
Speaker
And I know even there's been women on the subreddit who have expressed like, hey, I actually prefer them smaller because my vagina is smaller and blah, blah, blah.
00:36:11
Speaker
Physically, it's
00:36:12
Speaker
more pleasurable for them.
00:36:14
Speaker
But at the same time, we're tired of everyone stepping on women every time they express the fact that they like something sexually, including the fact that some women, and I would even venture to say a lot, if not most women, prefer men around a certain size, right?
00:36:28
Speaker
Slightly above average to average size.
00:36:29
Speaker
Like,
00:36:30
Speaker
We're not walking back from that.
00:36:31
Speaker
We're not going to apologize for that.
00:36:33
Speaker
We don't standard shame women who want that.
00:36:35
Speaker
And we're tired of everyone acting like we're weirdos if we say our sexual preferences out loud.
00:36:40
Speaker
And like, you know, just because they make men feel bad, we're never allowed to talk about what we want.
00:36:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:45
Speaker
Like one of the posts on FDS that got the most reports was the one that was like, oh, men will say, oh, I'm an ass man or I'm a boobs man or whatever.
00:36:53
Speaker
And then the woman says, oh, yeah, well, I'm a girth girl myself.
00:36:57
Speaker
That one got like over a hundred reports.
00:37:01
Speaker
How dare you?
00:37:02
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:37:03
Speaker
I'm like having a small penis is not a protected class fellas.
00:37:06
Speaker
All right.
00:37:07
Speaker
Like they literally cannot handle even 1% of the treatment that they level against women.
00:37:13
Speaker
And it's like, there's so much whataboutery on those, you know, we see men say, okay, so if you like, you know, bigger penises, can I like a woman with big boobs?
00:37:22
Speaker
I'm just like, well, yeah, you can.
00:37:23
Speaker
That's the thing.
00:37:24
Speaker
Like you're entitled to your standards.
00:37:25
Speaker
You were never going to shut up about that.
00:37:27
Speaker
It's not like you were being silent this whole time.
00:37:29
Speaker
Right?
00:37:30
Speaker
Like they already say that.
00:37:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:32
Speaker
When were, when were you guys not talking about that?
00:37:34
Speaker
you know, you know, you're entitled to your standards, just like I'm entitled to mine, but I'm not shaming you for yours.
00:37:40
Speaker
You know, you're in, you know, our messages and DMs shaming us for our preferences.
00:37:46
Speaker
It's just very, it's such.
00:37:49
Speaker
Like we're shallow and like, like we want to fuck who we want to fuck.
00:37:53
Speaker
Die mad.
00:37:54
Speaker
Period.
00:37:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:55
Speaker
And then the other thing is the mental illness one, that was the one that Pick Monique was really, like, really clinging to in the aftermath when she was getting a lot of backlash for this article.
00:38:05
Speaker
It was like, well, what about depressed men?
00:38:06
Speaker
What about blah, blah, blah, blah?
00:38:08
Speaker
And people were pointing out that we're not talking about people... Like, first of all, we tell both men and women not to date until you have your mental illness under control.
00:38:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:18
Speaker
We're not saying like, oh, if you're someone who's ever had a mental illness, you're permanently ruined.
00:38:23
Speaker
No, we say that both men and women should get their mental illness under control before they go out and date.
00:38:29
Speaker
For men and women, it's very different reasons.
00:38:30
Speaker
For women, it's because when you go out and date when you're mentally ill, like depressed, anxious, whatever, it makes you much more vulnerable to predation and abuse.
00:38:38
Speaker
With men who go out and who date when they have mental illnesses, often they refuse to go to therapy.
00:38:44
Speaker
They're just looking for a woman who will provide emotional labor because they see her as a free therapist.
00:38:48
Speaker
And so women don't want to date a guy who's mentally ill because, first of all, we're not qualified to provide treatment for mental illness.
00:38:56
Speaker
illness, right?
00:38:57
Speaker
Secondly, it's not our job, okay?
00:38:59
Speaker
Like, you know, if you want therapy... Society forces all this emotional labor on women, and this is us taking a stand and saying, no, and I'm tired of the double speak between feminists complaining about this double standard about how women do all this emotional labor and caretaking, and then getting mad when people create boundaries and say, no, we're not going to do it because it doesn't benefit us and everyone's miserable doing it, right?
00:39:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:23
Speaker
Like the response to the mental illness ones, it's like, oh my gosh, so you're saying that depressed guys aren't worthy of love?
00:39:30
Speaker
has nothing to do with worth.
00:39:33
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:33
Speaker
It has everything to do with what kind of relationship that you want.
00:39:36
Speaker
And do I, I've spent my entire life, you know, getting treatment, going to therapy, um, for, you know, depression and anxiety.
00:39:44
Speaker
I've worked my ass off to get to a point where I am mentally healthy and like a functional person with good communication skills and stuff.
00:39:52
Speaker
I am not going to saddle myself with someone who has not done that kind of work.
00:39:56
Speaker
Um,
00:39:57
Speaker
So, yeah, there's nothing wrong with not wanting to date someone who's mentally ill.
00:40:00
Speaker
And they're not entitled.
00:40:02
Speaker
Mentally ill people aren't entitled to a relationship anyways.
00:40:05
Speaker
Yeah, nobody is.
00:40:06
Speaker
Nobody is for any reason.
00:40:07
Speaker
And that's, I mean, again, reasonable boundaries that they're trying to make it seem like it's outrageous.
00:40:14
Speaker
And especially the BDSM and polyamory thing.
00:40:17
Speaker
Someone responded to this article on Twitter about how even in the context of them exploring BDSM and polyamory for their own benefit,
00:40:27
Speaker
The thing that we've repeatedly said is that a lot of the men who are attracted to this are not safe dudes to be around.
00:40:35
Speaker
It doesn't even have to do with just women being interested or not.
00:40:39
Speaker
It's just that like, recognize that you're putting yourself in extremely vulnerable state and don't just look at it from like what you desire, but also look at it from the perspective of what kind of men are motivated to do this.
00:40:50
Speaker
And when it's really, really telling that the media never wants to talk about
00:40:54
Speaker
BDSM and polyamory from the perspective of straight men who are into this kind of thing because I think women would be fucking horrified and run screaming away from the practice for the most of the time because the guys who are into the sexual domination and humiliation of women and don't and they always try to like
00:41:12
Speaker
soften the blow with like a femdom saying, well, some guys are into women.
00:41:16
Speaker
First of all, that's not from what I can tell from the BDSM community, that seems to not be as nearly as popular as, as the reverse.
00:41:23
Speaker
And then when they say all these guys that are claiming their, their dom, their dominance, they always say, well, these guys aren't real BDSM people.
00:41:30
Speaker
But I'm like, well,
00:41:31
Speaker
Again, how do we tell the quote-unquote real BDSM people from the fake ones, right?
00:41:36
Speaker
Like, wait until they violate your consent boundaries and now you got to deal with that trauma?
00:41:40
Speaker
It's like they almost don't want to admit that this is a thing that men do for the specific purpose of being able to abuse or sexually prey on women who are already vulnerable and are already vulnerable because there are...
00:41:57
Speaker
sexually attracted to abuse.
00:41:58
Speaker
Exactly.
00:41:59
Speaker
Then the media will gaslight women by saying it's all about the woman's choice and focusing on the woman's choice, but they never focus on the sort of man who is into that because the most of the time they are in fact toxic.
00:42:12
Speaker
Um, you know, men who get sexually aroused by beating women or men who, you know, men who act like their sexual orientation is polyamorous.
00:42:19
Speaker
Okay.
Polyamory and Gender Inequality
00:42:20
Speaker
I'm sorry, but being a promiscuous man is not a sexual orientation.
00:42:23
Speaker
Right.
00:42:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:25
Speaker
Okay?
00:42:25
Speaker
It's not like being a lesbian or being gay where you have no choice.
00:42:28
Speaker
You absolutely have choice over, you know, whether or not you fuck multiple people or just one at a time.
00:42:34
Speaker
And again, the hypocrisy here, and I keep saying this, but, like, the right and the left has their weird sacred cows.
00:42:40
Speaker
It's like the word submission when we talk about BDSM, where I have heard the exact same thing come out of the mouths of, like, Christian people when they talk about, oh, the wife is submissive, but she really has the power position.
00:42:52
Speaker
They say the same thing in BDSM where it's like, oh, the submissive has the power position, not the dominant.
00:42:57
Speaker
And it seems like they're gaslighting people to believe something other than what the words means.
00:43:02
Speaker
It's like, stop fucking lying to me, okay?
00:43:04
Speaker
Like, we know what words mean.
00:43:06
Speaker
When we see a guy beating a woman, we know that she's not in control, okay?
00:43:10
Speaker
That's just the simple reality of it.
00:43:13
Speaker
Well...
00:43:14
Speaker
And not even that, like, it's weird having grown up and seeing, remember, like, when the Mormon thing was really big and you saw the big love shows, there was one guy with a bunch of wives and everyone's like, this is manipulative and abusive.
00:43:24
Speaker
And now polyamory is all the rage on the left.
00:43:27
Speaker
And I'm like, how is this different?
00:43:29
Speaker
How is one guy with a bunch of sister wives different from this one guy than his female only polycule, right?
00:43:35
Speaker
Like, I don't get the, it seems like it's just semantics at that point.
00:43:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:39
Speaker
And the other thing is the relationships, the poly relationships you see are, I mean, other than like the same sex polycules, which are like, cool, like you do you.
00:43:48
Speaker
But the ones that involve men, both men and women are like, it's almost always one man with multiple women.
00:43:55
Speaker
And in cases where it's one woman with multiple men, it's always met with such a different like...
00:44:01
Speaker
tone.
00:44:01
Speaker
Like, one man with multiple women is like, oh, he's a baller, he's a player, he's a stud, blah, blah, blah.
00:44:07
Speaker
Personally, I would love to have multiple boyfriends, okay?
00:44:10
Speaker
But I know that that would not be socially acceptable.
00:44:13
Speaker
And in fact, we had a post on FDS that was like, the only type of polyamory we find is acceptable is where one woman has multiple boyfriends who all serve her grapes and champagne.
00:44:23
Speaker
That got so much backlash.
00:44:25
Speaker
They were angry.
00:44:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:26
Speaker
Everyone was angry at that saying like how outrageous and how unreasonable it is.
00:44:32
Speaker
We don't have respect for our partners.
00:44:33
Speaker
Like I don't think a lot of these guys that are into this have respect for their partners either, but we allow misogyny to cook in a way that we don't let, you know, the opposite.
00:44:43
Speaker
Exactly.
00:44:43
Speaker
And it bothers me when so many conversations about polyamory is they pretend like we live in a world where men and women are already equal and there's no social stigma around sexuality for women.
00:44:55
Speaker
It's a massive class divide, too, because I think the richest women are kind of insulated from some of these consequences, too.
00:45:01
Speaker
So they don't understand that women who are not as privileged as they are, the consequences are massive.
00:45:07
Speaker
And the likelihood that they're going to find...
00:45:09
Speaker
quote unquote, men who are enlightened enough to be, you know, into this kind of thing is lower.
00:45:15
Speaker
And so it's just, it's like, they're almost ignorant of how most women live and want to present this vogue, cosmo, upper class vision of perfect gender relations that doesn't exist for 90 plus percent of the world's women.
00:45:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:32
Speaker
Exactly.
00:45:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:33
Speaker
Like for poor women, a polyamorous relationship is a disaster.
00:45:38
Speaker
Like what you've got one guy with multiple baby mamas.
00:45:41
Speaker
Like, how are you going to, how are you gonna figure out child support?
00:45:44
Speaker
Like that's just a nightmare waiting to happen.
00:45:46
Speaker
Like, right.
00:45:47
Speaker
Exactly.
00:45:47
Speaker
And like, that's been going on.
00:45:48
Speaker
But yeah, anyways, we, we need to have a whole, whole episode just about BDSM and polyamory.
00:45:54
Speaker
This is a big topic.
00:45:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:56
Speaker
Okay.
00:45:56
Speaker
So next, uh,
00:45:58
Speaker
There also, this actually, this next paragraph, this is another train wreck.
00:46:01
Speaker
And actually, this is the one where I was like, actually very offended by.
00:46:06
Speaker
They're also extremely unforgiving when it comes to rule breaking.
00:46:09
Speaker
I enjoyed FDS at first because there was a lot of good advice about female empowerment, says Jess, 35, from Tennessee.
00:46:15
Speaker
After struggling with her self-esteem, she joined the subreddit to get her shit together.
00:46:19
Speaker
However, she was swiftly banned when she contributed to a discussion about male sexual assault in another unrelated subreddit.
00:46:25
Speaker
Someone was alluding to the possibility that men couldn't be sexually assaulted, and I replied saying that was ridiculous, she remembers.
00:46:31
Speaker
And then the notification came through that I had been banned from FDS automatically.
00:46:36
Speaker
Ugh, I made my eye roll so much.
00:46:38
Speaker
I'm so mad because I'm like, listen, first of all,
00:46:42
Speaker
nobody's combing people's comments from others.
00:46:44
Speaker
Like nobody has fucking time.
00:46:46
Speaker
But in addition to that, it's, we, I think it's not a secret.
00:46:49
Speaker
We have a band bot that if you comment on certain subs that are known to brigade FDS, most of them are like men's right activism type subs or porn.
00:46:58
Speaker
You will get automatically banned by a bot.
00:47:01
Speaker
Even good faith participators get caught in it sometimes and people go through and, and request through mod mail to get unbanned, et cetera, et cetera.
FDS Mission and Media Misconceptions
00:47:10
Speaker
So I kind of felt like this was very disingenuous to suggest that somehow we had a problem with this person talking about male sexual assault on another subreddit, so we banned her.
00:47:19
Speaker
Yeah, like, first of all, we don't care.
00:47:21
Speaker
Secondly, like, the implication that we somehow support, like, sexual assault against men or that we think that it's not real or that it's, like, bad to speak out against sexual assault about men.
00:47:35
Speaker
Like, if you were saying that on FDS...
00:47:37
Speaker
Yeah, we'd probably ban you because it's not, like, a focus of our subreddit.
00:47:40
Speaker
This is not a subreddit where we focus on male issues.
00:47:44
Speaker
But if you're saying on another subreddit, we don't care.
00:47:46
Speaker
And so the implication is, like, oh, you know, they're writing it in a way where they want the reader to come to the conclusion of, like, oh, they are, like, pro-raping men, basically.
00:47:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:56
Speaker
Yeah, that's offensive.
00:47:57
Speaker
And honestly, a big reason why we're addressing this is because if people Google this article and they come in like, FDS supports sexual assault against men, that's just categorically false.
00:48:07
Speaker
And the assertion that this person was banned for that view is just categorically false.
00:48:10
Speaker
I mean, especially if they're commenting on another subreddit.
00:48:13
Speaker
If they're commenting on our subreddit and wanting to talk about men's issues, we say, first and foremost, we don't talk about men's issues.
00:48:20
Speaker
It's not that we don't think that these are
00:48:22
Speaker
important issues.
00:48:23
Speaker
It's just, that's not what our specific subreddit is for.
00:48:26
Speaker
And quite frankly, we can't talk about male sexual assault because we're not men.
00:48:30
Speaker
So, you know, if anything like that, we probably would have redirected them to another subreddit, but to suggest that's because we support it or that we have a problem with people discussing male sexual assault is just wrong.
00:48:42
Speaker
That's just wrong.
00:48:43
Speaker
So the band was a shock, but it came at the right time, just admits she'd already been beginning to feel skeptical at FDS's messaging, which often end up being contradictory and hypocritical.
00:48:51
Speaker
I know it's a lot drifting into sexism, she says in one breath.
00:48:54
Speaker
If you don't need a man to take care of you, to don't give a man a second date if he doesn't pay for your first date.
00:48:59
Speaker
To me, that was confusing because you can't have it both ways.
00:49:01
Speaker
Yes, the fuck you can, first of all.
00:49:05
Speaker
Yes, you can have it both ways.
00:49:07
Speaker
That's our whole thing, right?
00:49:08
Speaker
Like you don't, you can expect a man to put forth effort to court you and still not like need him to live or anything like that.
00:49:17
Speaker
I mean, in fact, we talk about how relationship labor is so unequal a lot of times that we expect men to compensate in other ways.
00:49:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:26
Speaker
And also, I don't understand how paying for a first date is like, is taking care of you, right?
00:49:31
Speaker
Like, he's not paying for your rent.
00:49:33
Speaker
He's not paying for your car.
00:49:34
Speaker
Right.
00:49:34
Speaker
Okay.
00:49:35
Speaker
It's the first date.
00:49:35
Speaker
Like, calm down.
00:49:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:49:37
Speaker
Bare minimum.
00:49:37
Speaker
And so saying like, oh, you can't have, you cannot both be an independent woman and have a guy pay for your dinner.
00:49:44
Speaker
Right.
00:49:45
Speaker
Like, you can't have it both ways.
00:49:46
Speaker
Yes, you can.
00:49:47
Speaker
Like, why not?
00:49:48
Speaker
Why are women told that you have to choose either financial independence and then paying for your man, or, like, being completely financially reliant on a man?
00:49:59
Speaker
Like, why are women forced to choose between these two extremes, neither of which serve women?
00:50:03
Speaker
Why can't we just choose what benefits us the most?
00:50:07
Speaker
So yeah, so then after that, like it goes into this tirade about relationship experts or different relationship experts who have a problem with us.
00:50:15
Speaker
And I guess we would counter what qualifies these people to be a relationship expert.
00:50:19
Speaker
You know, one of the things that we talk about all the time is that this field is pretty...
00:50:23
Speaker
It's like we have guys that just woke up yesterday and printed an ebook and now they're relationship experts.
00:50:30
Speaker
And there's been a few that have been caught out.
00:50:33
Speaker
Like recently, Derek Jackson, who's been apparently cheating on his wife slash baby mama forever.
00:50:41
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:50:42
Speaker
So it's like a lot of times when we see these quote unquote media relationship experts, they're just people hired to say an opinion that the media likes because there's not really there's like these people aren't therapists.
00:50:54
Speaker
They're not, you know, they're just people with an opinion who have products to sell.
00:50:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:59
Speaker
Yeah, and a lot of the, we call them, like, sex advice scammers because a lot of them are just, like, the sort of person, you know that one chick in your office who always, like, talks about her raunchy Tinder date or whatever, and everyone in the office is just sitting around uncomfortably listening to it and wanting her to shut the fuck up.
00:51:16
Speaker
That's Gigi Angle, okay?
00:51:18
Speaker
That's, we roast, I don't know, we might cut this out.
00:51:21
Speaker
But like, yeah, there are relationship experts who are just non-functional people.
00:51:26
Speaker
They're just sexually depraved people.
00:51:28
Speaker
So they go on and have a Twitter account and suddenly they've got all these people validating their opinions and now they're like, oh, I'm a relationship expert.
00:51:34
Speaker
Most of them don't even have a degree or are just spouting bullshit.
00:51:39
Speaker
Guys like Kevin Samuels, who just went, he basically went to Kohl's and got himself an off-the-rack suit and then started putting out YouTube videos, and now apparently his world is gospel in the Black Manosphere.
00:51:50
Speaker
So, like, guys like that where it's just, I mean, I know people don't know us from a can of paint either, but I feel qualified.
00:51:56
Speaker
I feel...
00:51:58
Speaker
we are more qualified than most of these people, like based on our experience and educational background.
00:52:04
Speaker
And not to mention that we're, we're primarily focused on strategy than pretending like we're therapists.
00:52:10
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:52:11
Speaker
Like these guys are so...
00:52:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:13
Speaker
So, I mean, that's basically the article.
00:52:15
Speaker
The rest of it's just more of the same, saying, oh, you guys are being unfair, etc., etc., etc.
00:52:21
Speaker
Oh, you're just like the man... I want to talk about the... Because the conclusion of it is that we're just as bad as the manosphere, right?
00:52:29
Speaker
They talk about biologically deterministic language, which, you know, why is that only a problem when it's a women's issue?
00:52:35
Speaker
Like, why are...
00:52:36
Speaker
Why is that not criticized when men are saying stuff like that?
00:52:39
Speaker
But anyways.
00:52:40
Speaker
I mean, to be fair, this guy does say, like, he doubts it'll be as bad as the manosphere because of how entrenched misogyny is.
00:52:46
Speaker
But I'm also like, us discussing misogyny is not automatically misandry, right?
00:52:51
Speaker
It's like...
00:52:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's a class issue, right?
00:52:54
Speaker
And then they have a Susan Winter, they have a Susan Winter quote saying like, the underlying tone of FDS is that all men are like this.
00:53:02
Speaker
That's just tone policing, okay?
00:53:04
Speaker
Like, I talked in my rebuttal how the expectation that women are always supposed to be nice is a tool of oppression.
00:53:10
Speaker
Because when women are not allowed to speak freely about our opinions, we're
00:53:15
Speaker
And we have to think about like, oh, how can I be like inoffensive to men?
00:53:19
Speaker
It really limits what we're able to say.
00:53:20
Speaker
And that is the opposite of empowerment.
00:53:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:53:23
Speaker
And honestly, like overall, we, I know that Susan Winter has been posted to the sub.
00:53:28
Speaker
So I'm actually a little bit sad.
00:53:29
Speaker
They baited her into this article because otherwise there's a lot of stuff that I think she says that's
00:53:34
Speaker
pretty spot on.
00:53:35
Speaker
But I also think some of this too is, uh, they might've taken what she said, uh, they might've misrepresented what we're about.
00:53:40
Speaker
And then she, you know, made a soundbite or also generational differences because I'm like, it's a war zone out here, right.
00:53:46
Speaker
For Gen Z and millennials right now.
00:53:48
Speaker
Um, and I also think her being primarily working with older people might, uh,
00:53:54
Speaker
change her interpretation of some of the things that we're talking about.
00:53:57
Speaker
Yeah, like the quote, I've known good men, kind, thoughtful, devoted partners and husbands, blah, blah, blah.
00:54:01
Speaker
We talk about good men all of the time on Female Dating Strategy.
00:54:06
Speaker
FDS doesn't dispute that there are good men out there.
00:54:10
Speaker
That's why, you know, like, you know, the HVM acronym is a thing.
00:54:15
Speaker
We don't dispute that they do exist.
00:54:18
Speaker
And, you know, we all know that
00:54:19
Speaker
If we didn't believe it, we'd hang it up.
00:54:21
Speaker
Like, what would be the point of doing this?
00:54:22
Speaker
At this point, we just take to the streets and be like, y'all need to get all y'all shit together right now.
00:54:26
Speaker
Like, there's nothing, there's no, no, strategizing.
00:54:30
Speaker
It's time to just take to the streets and start burning shit.
00:54:33
Speaker
Cause that's, at that point it's over.
00:54:35
Speaker
Right.
00:54:36
Speaker
So yeah, like we do talk about high quality men all the time.
00:54:38
Speaker
And I find it interesting that, you know, the only time she mentions high value men is in this like sarcastic kind of snarky, like, oh, he's going to pay for a maid kind of thing,
Positive Feedback and Vision for Empowerment
00:54:47
Speaker
right?
00:54:47
Speaker
Like at no point does she acknowledge that we talk about high quality men all the time.
00:54:52
Speaker
It's just, oh, they think all men are evil and that makes them exactly and just as bad as the manosphere.
00:54:57
Speaker
It's just a very poorly written article that
00:55:01
Speaker
Very lazy, poorly researched, and just even just straight up dishonest, you know, just the way that she asked us for comment, saying like, oh, we're going to make an article about the harassment that you receive.
00:55:12
Speaker
And then essentially just adding to that, like, essentially adding to that hostile reaction that she said that she was going to be writing about.
00:55:20
Speaker
Oh, and the Facebook comments were lit up with men, like so offended at this.
00:55:25
Speaker
So I feel like she did her job, which is to get a bunch of clicks and get men to get all worked up over FDS.
00:55:32
Speaker
But I mean, I pretty much see anybody who's looked at FDS and doesn't understand the value of what we're saying is probably either... Most guys, if they're high value, will understand, even if they...
00:55:42
Speaker
look at it like, you know, they won't think it applies to them, quite frankly.
00:55:45
Speaker
Like, they're just looking like, yeah, some guys suck.
00:55:47
Speaker
Like, I don't see how this is a personal statement on me in particular.
00:55:51
Speaker
And also understand, look at the tips.
00:55:54
Speaker
We've gotten so much feedback from men who have said, we had a lot of feedback from men who said, hey, I finally understand some of the things that my wife or girlfriend has been talking about.
00:56:03
Speaker
And I understand how to adjust my behavior in a way that's making our relationship better.
00:56:09
Speaker
We get that all the time from men.
00:56:11
Speaker
And a lot of it has to come, them just not understanding our perspective about being a mommy McBang maid, how we're affected by porn, how our sexuality works, stuff like that, that again, articles like these so misrepresent a lot of women's boundaries and push women's boundaries and misrepresent a lot of women's motivations that these guys don't understand why their relationships aren't working.
00:56:32
Speaker
Well, we lay it out and we don't sugarcoat it.
00:56:35
Speaker
So now they're like, oh, I get it now, right?
00:56:37
Speaker
Now I understand.
00:56:39
Speaker
how women see the situation.
00:56:41
Speaker
So I think we're providing a valuable service in that respect to both men and women.
00:56:46
Speaker
Okay.
00:56:46
Speaker
And then finally, this last paragraph, you know,
00:56:51
Speaker
I don't like it.
00:56:52
Speaker
And it says, even if FDS is unlikely to develop into anything more concerning, it's still not going to help either as a solution to women's dating woes or as a patriarchy smashing strategy.
00:57:01
Speaker
Playing games, trying to belittle and use men in the way that perhaps women have been used historically is only going to alienate men, warns Mansfield.
00:57:09
Speaker
This could create a deeper and more toxic rift between the sexes.
00:57:13
Speaker
Vietly disagree.
00:57:14
Speaker
Oh, like we're the ones creating the toxic rift between the sexes?
00:57:18
Speaker
Fuck off.
00:57:19
Speaker
Right.
00:57:20
Speaker
Like they've been on this for a while.
00:57:22
Speaker
And it's weird because it's almost like they act as if women defending themselves against what's become a hostile climate is somehow contributing to the rift.
00:57:30
Speaker
And like, I don't think that we're the aggressors in this situation.
00:57:33
Speaker
I think, I mean, a
00:57:34
Speaker
Clearly, FDS is something that just came along after the Manusphere's round been at least 10 years, right?
00:57:39
Speaker
We're a decade behind any type of real quote-unquote strategy to counteract some of these toxic narratives in our culture.
00:57:47
Speaker
So to say that we're escalating it is kind of crazy because I'm like, it's going to escalate whether we address it or not.
00:57:53
Speaker
Let's just keep it a buck.
00:57:54
Speaker
If there's no counteroffense, what are you going to do?
00:57:56
Speaker
Just let these guys flood the media with a bunch of red pill talking points and shit on little girls' self-esteem and make...
00:58:03
Speaker
I mean, there's a lot of women that talk about being online and looking at all the manager stuff and having horrible self-esteem because these guys just keep flooding any type of social media with this red pill crap.
00:58:14
Speaker
And we're here saying, almost like knight in shining armor, cutting through the crap and creating counter narratives and strategies for girls to say, don't let this stuff deter you from doing what's best for you.
00:58:26
Speaker
Don't internalize this crap.
00:58:28
Speaker
Don't listen to the media and their constant delusion about...
00:58:33
Speaker
men and women's motivations.
00:58:34
Speaker
Don't let them push you in a sexual exploitation as empowerment.
00:58:38
Speaker
You know, doing things that we think are actually going to make women's lives materially better rather than this ideological stuff they keep trying to force down our throats.
00:58:46
Speaker
That's not working for a lot of women.
00:58:48
Speaker
Like, the idea that, like, we're the bad guys here because, oh, like, toxic gender divide or whatever.
00:58:55
Speaker
It's like, I'm just imagining, like, we've been under attack for decades now.
00:58:58
Speaker
Millennia, even.
00:59:00
Speaker
That itself is the toxic gender divide.
00:59:02
Speaker
So how are we supposed to fix that?
00:59:04
Speaker
We didn't get ourselves into this problem.
00:59:06
Speaker
It's like telling a woman who's in an abusive relationship that you're just supposed to sit there and take his punches and not fight back.
00:59:11
Speaker
Basically.
00:59:12
Speaker
You know, and then the moment the woman stands up and like, you know, blocks a punch or something or like pushes him back, it's like, oh, suddenly the police show up and she gets arrested because she's the abusive one or whatever.
00:59:23
Speaker
That's very much like how a lot of aspects of our culture works, where men can just do whatever they want to women and we're not allowed to complain.
00:59:30
Speaker
And the moment that we do complain, we're the bad guys.
00:59:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's crazy.
00:59:35
Speaker
Or we complain, but it's like, oh, it's your fault because you're picking these guys.
00:59:38
Speaker
And we're all like, we don't fucking know.
00:59:39
Speaker
They're always coming up with some new nonsense.
00:59:42
Speaker
Like there's certain fuckboy behaviors that are common.
00:59:45
Speaker
But at the same time, the reason why they're common is because society keeps gaslighting women out of protecting themselves from it, like this article does.
00:59:53
Speaker
Yes, yes, 100%.
00:59:54
Speaker
Yeah, and I just find it especially insulting.
00:59:56
Speaker
This article came out, like, what, a few days before Sarah Everard?
01:00:00
Speaker
And then we've got the whole avalanche of men going, not all men are like that, blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:00:04
Speaker
It's just such an insulting addition to this toxic culture that harms women and protects abusive men.
01:00:10
Speaker
You know, and then, oh, and then the other line, either as a solution to women's dating was, or as a patriarchy-smashing strategy, oh, suddenly our job is to smash patriarchy?
01:00:19
Speaker
Like...
01:00:20
Speaker
It's like saying like, oh, you know, we should shut down all of the like soup kitchens because they're not solving homelessness.
01:00:26
Speaker
I tell you what won't solve patriarchy pretending it doesn't exist and not acting on your own behalf.
01:00:31
Speaker
Right.
01:00:32
Speaker
And creating agency within women that definitely won't smash it.
01:00:35
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:35
Speaker
burying your head in the sand isn't going to smash patriarchy either okay like we can argue till we're blue in the face over what's going to end patriarchy um but ultimately like men are not going to voluntarily do that themselves they're not going to do it until they're forced to and that's what sfds is for is we're pretty much going to uh create the conditions that will give men no other choice but to start respecting women if they want to get what they want
01:00:58
Speaker
Exactly.
01:00:59
Speaker
Exactly.
01:01:00
Speaker
And we're at the end of the day, the buck kind of stops with us, meaning we have the unfortunate responsibility of choosing fathers and that's going to affect our family lineage for generations, right?
01:01:12
Speaker
We talk about generational trauma, cycles of abuse.
01:01:16
Speaker
That starts with somebody, right?
01:01:17
Speaker
And that starts with a woman not putting herself in the best situation to have the best things for herself and by extension, her child.
01:01:25
Speaker
So by us raising the standards,
01:01:27
Speaker
I think that's going to make everybody better off.
01:01:29
Speaker
Like pandering to men's like penis wants, I have yet to hear an argument about why any single woman should ever give a fuck about that.
01:01:37
Speaker
I don't think any woman should do it.
01:01:38
Speaker
I think it actually makes us worse off the more we give a shit about what makes men's dicks hard.
01:01:43
Speaker
Like it's all about how women can empower themselves to make better choices for themselves.
01:01:48
Speaker
And by extension, generations in the future, right?
01:01:52
Speaker
Our
01:01:53
Speaker
Our careful vetting of who would be our children's fathers is the mean will mean the world to our children as to our children's children and so forth.
01:02:01
Speaker
Yeah, like we might not be able to smash the patriarchy, but we can definitely breed it out.
01:02:10
Speaker
We can make it go extinct, okay?
01:02:13
Speaker
Because we choose life.
01:02:14
Speaker
Like, we control the next generation.
01:02:17
Speaker
Exactly.
01:02:17
Speaker
And we have power.
01:02:19
Speaker
Use it.
01:02:20
Speaker
All right.
01:02:20
Speaker
And on that note, that's our show.
01:02:22
Speaker
And if you'd like to interact some more, check out our website at thefemaledatingstrategy.com.
01:02:27
Speaker
Also, please support our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash thefemaledatingstrategy.
01:02:32
Speaker
And thank you for listening to Queens once again.
01:02:35
Speaker
And for all you crunchy sock cowboys out there, die mad.
01:02:41
Speaker
See you next week.
01:02:42
Speaker
See you next week.
01:02:43
Speaker
See you next week, guys.