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Overcoming A Defeatist Mindset: Femcels, WGTOWs, & Radfem Separatists+ Explosive Diarrhea
47 Plays4 years ago
Explosive Diarrhea is an acceptable excuse to cancel a date. We address some recent subreddit drama wherein the mods purged some of the more defeatist female centric groups that had taken residence on FDS (i.e. femcels, WGTOW, Pinkpillers, Radfem separatists). We discuss why their mindset is ultimately not compatible with FDS principles and leveling up.
Cyanide and Happiness Clip:
https://twitter.com/femdatstrat/status/1415262379886080004?s=21
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Transcript
Expanding Female Dating Strategy
00:00:00
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:00:01
Speaker
It's your host, Ro.
00:00:02
Speaker
Do you like female dating strategy?
00:00:04
Speaker
Would you like to see us expand on a lot of different platforms?
00:00:07
Speaker
Then please sign up for our Patreon.
00:00:08
Speaker
We are currently targeting a $10,000 per month goal, which would allow us to work full time on female dating strategy content in order to expand on different platforms and upgrade our media presence.
00:00:20
Speaker
As a special thank you to our current Patreon subscribers, we will be increasing our upload rate for our bonus content to be weekly on Fridays, as well as offering a special discount for paid annual memberships.
00:00:33
Speaker
So please check out our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy.
00:00:37
Speaker
That's patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy.
00:00:40
Speaker
Thank you.
00:00:41
Speaker
Let's start the show.
Roast a Scrote: Sarah's Disastrous Date
00:00:42
Speaker
And next up, here's a little segment we like to call roast a scrote.
00:00:47
Speaker
This is a story all about how... A scraped caiman.
00:00:51
Speaker
Our life's got to flip turned upside down by so I'm scraped.
00:00:56
Speaker
Okay.
00:00:57
Speaker
Okay, so this story is from Sarah.
00:01:01
Speaker
And Sarah says, this is a date from about 15 years ago when I was in my mid-20s.
00:01:07
Speaker
My best friend set up a phone call between myself and her co-worker.
00:01:12
Speaker
It's not something I'd normally be into, but...
00:01:14
Speaker
But both of us were really close.
00:01:16
Speaker
And at that time, we were even living together.
00:01:18
Speaker
She talked the guy up so much and she knew me so well that I thought he must be amazing.
00:01:25
Speaker
I'm just going to jump in here because we see a lot on the on the subreddit.
00:01:30
Speaker
that you can meet a high-value man through your friends and it can be a legitimate way to meet guys.
00:01:40
Speaker
But one thing you have to be aware of is that your friends, as great as they may be as friends, they may have a different definition of what constitutes amazing.
00:01:50
Speaker
Yeah, and speaking from personal experience, also be aware of family members and friends trying to pawn off their low-value scrotes.
00:01:58
Speaker
I have met some good...
00:02:01
Speaker
Some good men from friends and family, but I definitely noticed that, especially like pick me moms will try to talk up their sons and talk about how amazing they are and shit.
00:02:11
Speaker
And it's like, no, he lives in your basement.
00:02:13
Speaker
You just want to get rid of him.
00:02:14
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:14
Speaker
Like stop trying to pawn him off on a meat woman.
00:02:16
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:02:17
Speaker
So, I mean, it's basically not a guarantee.
00:02:21
Speaker
But anyway, so he and I spoke on the phone briefly and he seemed charming, but we pretty much only set up the first date.
00:02:29
Speaker
for 12.30pm the next day.
00:02:31
Speaker
We decided I'd meet him at his apartment and go from there.
00:02:35
Speaker
First fuck up.
00:02:37
Speaker
Don't go to his apartment on the first date.
00:02:42
Speaker
um so he lived about a five minute drive away so I didn't give that any thought uh since my BFF gave him so much praise I just figured I'd go to his place and he'd take us out for lunch or something so she went to this guy's apartment and they didn't have any concrete plans is anyone else getting that like second fuck up
00:03:03
Speaker
This is, yeah, we always say get a plan ahead of times because otherwise you just never know what they're trying to do.
00:03:07
Speaker
Yeah, you don't want to get ambushed.
00:03:09
Speaker
I don't do surprise dates with new people.
00:03:11
Speaker
I only do surprise dates with someone you've known a while.
00:03:14
Speaker
Yeah, blind dates.
00:03:17
Speaker
Sketchy.
00:03:18
Speaker
So the entire morning of the day, I was so excited I could barely stand it.
00:03:22
Speaker
This is really cute.
00:03:24
Speaker
I spent most of the morning nervously cleaning and watching the clock and primping and perfecting my appearance and fantasizing that he was doing the same.
00:03:35
Speaker
Oh, honey.
00:03:36
Speaker
My sweet summer child.
00:03:38
Speaker
There's this cyanide... Cyanide and happiness.
00:03:41
Speaker
Yeah, there's this cyanide and happiness skit where there's like a princess in the tower and she's singing all about how she's going to meet her prince today.
00:03:49
Speaker
And then it cuts across the fairy tale land to a man in a castle and he's in there talking about, I'm going to get laid.
00:03:55
Speaker
I'm going to get laid.
00:03:56
Speaker
Like...
00:03:59
Speaker
So imagine the dichotomy between, you know, a beautiful princess singing about finding her love and then just a man being like, my dick, doing scrote shit, two castles over.
00:04:09
Speaker
That's basically what this sounds like to me.
00:04:11
Speaker
We'll totally put that in the notes so you can see it because it's really funny.
00:04:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:17
Speaker
um so on to the date so the time comes and I get to his apartment at exactly half 12 then I knock and wait a minute and then I knock again he finally comes to the door a bleary-eyed and disheveled dressed in shorts and a tea that was definitely slept in he says I woke him up and asked for a minute to get dressed oh wow I say okay
00:04:42
Speaker
Okay, even though my bubble has completely been burst about him, about him looking forward to the day as much as I had been.
00:04:49
Speaker
Oh, that's heartbreaking.
00:04:54
Speaker
He leads me to a couch and I sit and wait while he enters his bathroom.
00:04:58
Speaker
The apartment was small, so the acoustics were... Okay, they were there, that's for sure.
00:05:07
Speaker
He proceeded to take...
00:05:09
Speaker
A long, loud, and literally morning shit.
00:05:12
Speaker
Ew.
00:05:13
Speaker
I couldn't believe I was sitting there in that situation, how long it dragged on.
00:05:21
Speaker
I want to see, like, an SNL sketch that plays this out.
00:05:25
Speaker
I need to see a video version of this.
00:05:28
Speaker
So she literally went to a guy's house, bless her, like, bless her heart.
00:05:31
Speaker
And then listened to him take a massive dump within the first five minutes of meeting him.
00:05:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:38
Speaker
taking a shit what the fuck and that's the energy he's gonna bring with you for the rest of the relationship pretty much but but but the next two lines are just like oh my gosh i thought he'd come out eventually and say he was sick or something because whatever went on in that bathroom didn't sound healthy oh my gosh
00:06:04
Speaker
Yeah, so this is the time when he should have canceled the date.
00:06:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:08
Speaker
This is like the one acceptable excuse to cancel a date.
00:06:11
Speaker
I unexpectedly got explosive diarrhea.
00:06:14
Speaker
Sounds like a reasonable excuse to me.
00:06:18
Speaker
Men have canceled dates for less.
00:06:20
Speaker
Isn't it actually explosive diarrhea?
00:06:22
Speaker
Is there just like the average poop from a scrote who just has a terrible diet of like fast food and like no fiber?
00:06:27
Speaker
So he's just like, like every morning.
00:06:32
Speaker
Sorry.
00:06:36
Speaker
Bathroom humour.
00:06:37
Speaker
Bad.
00:06:38
Speaker
Carrying on.
00:06:39
Speaker
So he eventually comes out and asks if before our date we can go to the grocery store because he needs cat food.
00:06:45
Speaker
I don't know why I agreed to this.
00:06:47
Speaker
I suppose I was in shock.
00:06:49
Speaker
He drives us to the store and we get the cat food and I honestly don't remember what we talked about.
00:06:54
Speaker
I just remember thinking, is this a date I'm on?
00:06:57
Speaker
What's going on here?
00:07:00
Speaker
And in my head, I was still hearing that massive shit.
00:07:05
Speaker
You know our episode with Cornelia where she's like, oh, some guys will just ask if you want to go on a walk date on his way to his work or something, right?
00:07:12
Speaker
Like if a guy wants to take you on a low effort date where he just brings you on his day-to-day errands.
00:07:19
Speaker
To buy cat food?
00:07:20
Speaker
Run away.
00:07:21
Speaker
Like, fuck that.
00:07:22
Speaker
Ridiculous.
00:07:23
Speaker
I don't understand why men think that women are supposed to find this attractive.
00:07:27
Speaker
Do you really think this was going to be acceptable?
00:07:30
Speaker
I would think you would put in the barest of minimums to try to be sexually attractive.
00:07:34
Speaker
And that would include not taking a massive, smelly, overwhelming, pungent dump while your date is sitting in the living room.
00:07:44
Speaker
I mean, you think this would be basic, right?
00:07:46
Speaker
It's mind-boggling, isn't it?
00:07:47
Speaker
If there's one thing I've learned about men recently, especially on Twitter, is that low-value men, they just do not care to be attractive to women.
00:07:56
Speaker
It's just something that does not occur to them.
00:07:58
Speaker
They think that women are supposed to want to be attractive to men, but since they see women as objects, the idea of them having to be attractive for a woman...
00:08:08
Speaker
It's just unfathomable to them.
00:08:09
Speaker
Like I had a tweet a few days ago saying like, oh, you know, guys, if you're having a hard time dating women, you know, maybe you should think about how to be more attractive to women and actually become the sort of man that women want.
00:08:22
Speaker
And so many guys were replying like, what?
00:08:25
Speaker
Like clutching their pearls at the suggestion that they have to make themselves desirable to women.
00:08:30
Speaker
They get straight up offended by that because it's just never occurred to them.
00:08:34
Speaker
I just can't get over the audacity and extreme, extreme, complete disregard for your guests to take a massive smelly dump while they're in the other room.
00:08:45
Speaker
I'm sorry, you guys.
00:08:46
Speaker
I can't get past this.
00:08:47
Speaker
And the cat food thing.
00:08:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:08:51
Speaker
So when we get back to his apartment, he feeds his cat then asks what I want to do.
00:08:56
Speaker
To which I respond, I'm not sure.
00:08:58
Speaker
Okay.
00:08:59
Speaker
I don't think I was even in my body at this point.
00:09:01
Speaker
To be fair, I've been so disgusted and horrified by stuff.
00:09:04
Speaker
My soul has literally, it's literally left my body and it goes to the ancestral plane.
00:09:10
Speaker
It comes back within a few hours, to be fair.
00:09:12
Speaker
But yeah, I can fully relate basically to how she's feeling when her soul's left her body.
00:09:18
Speaker
Anyway, he suggests we watch a DVD, which I'm pretty sure was Wall-E.
00:09:24
Speaker
I just don't know that I'd seen it before and I was deathly afraid that he tried to touch me during it.
00:09:30
Speaker
Well, he actually didn't.
00:09:32
Speaker
He wanted to watch a children's movie with you at his home on DVD.
00:09:36
Speaker
Who still has DVDs, first of all?
00:09:39
Speaker
It was 15 years ago.
00:09:41
Speaker
It was 15 years ago.
00:09:42
Speaker
Okay, that's right.
00:09:43
Speaker
But still, child's movie.
00:09:45
Speaker
It just feels like he's got a childlike mentality, but yeah.
00:09:48
Speaker
Clearly.
00:09:48
Speaker
Clearly.
00:09:50
Speaker
Anyway, the final bit is he didn't actually touch me and at the end of the movie I said I'd be on my way.
00:09:57
Speaker
Then he showed me a handful of prescription pills.
00:10:00
Speaker
Street pharmacist!
00:10:02
Speaker
Wow.
00:10:03
Speaker
And asked if I wanted to purchase any.
00:10:05
Speaker
I said no and left.
00:10:07
Speaker
When my best friend got home from work that night, I asked her why she hated me so much.
00:10:12
Speaker
LAUGHTER
00:10:17
Speaker
She swore that he was funny, charming and great at work.
00:10:21
Speaker
And she apologized profusely.
00:10:24
Speaker
I never went on another blind date again and never will.
High Standards and Femcel Critique
00:10:27
Speaker
Well, Sarah, we're really glad it was a painful lesson, but you learned it.
00:10:32
Speaker
So props to you.
00:10:33
Speaker
But man, I would have left after that shit, to be honest.
00:10:36
Speaker
I can't be in someone's flat just smelling their shit.
00:10:42
Speaker
Oh, the essence of their of their feces just wafting into the hallway.
00:10:47
Speaker
I just I can't.
00:10:48
Speaker
I can't.
00:10:49
Speaker
You know, the minute he opened the door and looked disheveled, I would have just walked away and been like, oh, sorry, wrong house.
00:10:56
Speaker
Yeah, and it's not even like these guys have like, because you know how in bathrooms you can get all sorts of stuff, you know, to make it smell nice, like the little incense sticks that I call like the toilet rimblots.
00:11:08
Speaker
They won't even have that.
00:11:09
Speaker
So you're literally smelling, as my mum would say, literally raw shit.
00:11:14
Speaker
It's disgusting.
00:11:17
Speaker
Raw, unfiltered, uncut.
00:11:20
Speaker
Shit, just straight from the intestine.
00:11:22
Speaker
Oh, God.
00:11:24
Speaker
I'm curious as to what kind of pills they were.
00:11:26
Speaker
Was this just like, I don't know what pills, I don't do drugs.
00:11:29
Speaker
Was he an opioid addiction?
00:11:31
Speaker
Yeah, I'm like, is this some kind of reaction to a drug?
00:11:36
Speaker
Is explosive diarrhea a common reaction to drugs?
00:11:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:40
Speaker
It can be.
00:11:41
Speaker
She said it was a, she said it was.
00:11:43
Speaker
I mean, prescription drugs, like the only drugs.
00:11:46
Speaker
Runny, explosive, wafting diarrhea.
00:11:52
Speaker
You know, usually they're either like Adderall, like they're usually either uppers or downers.
00:11:55
Speaker
So you'll do either like opioids, you know, like, or I don't know, like, what is it?
00:12:01
Speaker
Like Xanax, Valium, Percocet.
00:12:04
Speaker
What are some other, like, do they make your bowels release?
00:12:07
Speaker
I mean, I'm not an expert or anything like that.
00:12:10
Speaker
Um, so opioids do actually make you constipated.
00:12:14
Speaker
That's a thing.
00:12:15
Speaker
I only know this because I have a lot of relatives who work in healthcare, and this is like a serious problem recently with the opioid crisis.
00:12:20
Speaker
Like a lot of people are dying because of fentanyl and stuff.
00:12:22
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:12:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:25
Speaker
And usually people turn to things like heroin and fentanyl because of, you know, say a work injury, and then they start taking painkillers, and then their prescription runs out, and that's when they become an addict.
00:12:38
Speaker
So...
00:12:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:40
Speaker
I don't endorse taking these drugs.
00:12:41
Speaker
It's bad.
00:12:42
Speaker
Don't do that.
00:12:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:44
Speaker
Drugs are bad, kids.
00:12:46
Speaker
I just want to be clear.
00:12:48
Speaker
Well, I don't even know what to say further than this.
00:12:51
Speaker
I mean, how can you drag a guy who's already dragged himself with his presence?
00:12:55
Speaker
Yeah, she dragged him already.
00:12:56
Speaker
Like, that was just his existence as a drag.
00:12:59
Speaker
I mean, honestly, yeah, his whole existence is a cell phone there.
00:13:03
Speaker
But I hope he falls in next time he takes a shit.
00:13:06
Speaker
I hope every time he takes a shit from now on, it backsplashes onto his bottom.
00:13:11
Speaker
Ew.
00:13:11
Speaker
Ew.
00:13:15
Speaker
And I hope it's always cold.
00:13:17
Speaker
It's always cold.
00:13:18
Speaker
I hope his shits are cold forever.
00:13:22
Speaker
But then some poor woman is going to have to see that.
00:13:26
Speaker
No, no, no.
00:13:27
Speaker
No woman will see that because no woman will be bothered.
00:13:31
Speaker
Not on my watch.
00:13:33
Speaker
Also, it's 15 years later, okay?
00:13:35
Speaker
Like, if you've got that guy... I don't know how old he was at the time.
00:13:38
Speaker
Maybe 20, maybe 30.
00:13:40
Speaker
But he's at least 35 now, right?
00:13:41
Speaker
Like, 35, 40...
00:13:45
Speaker
45, 50, like he's old as fuck now.
00:13:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:48
Speaker
So no one's going to, no woman's going to see that.
00:13:50
Speaker
If that's how he is plus 15 years, no one's, no woman's going to want that.
00:13:55
Speaker
Gosh, Sarah.
00:13:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:56
Speaker
I refuse to allow this.
00:13:57
Speaker
I'm going to be honest.
00:14:00
Speaker
Let's put a new rule in the handbook.
00:14:02
Speaker
If you encounter a man who takes a sloppy, loud shit within minutes of meeting you and doesn't have the courtesy to try to disguise it.
00:14:14
Speaker
That is a red flag.
00:14:15
Speaker
I mean, him sleeping in until the very start of her date, that alone is low effort.
00:14:20
Speaker
That was the first, that was the first walk away thing.
00:14:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:24
Speaker
Sounds like he's hung over.
00:14:25
Speaker
Maybe he's just been holding in that shit for days.
00:14:28
Speaker
If he's on pills.
00:14:30
Speaker
Maybe he's really funny at work because he's high all the time.
00:14:34
Speaker
He's on uppers and then now this is the low.
00:14:36
Speaker
He's been holding in that shit for probably a week.
00:14:39
Speaker
So yeah, thank you for that roast, a shitty scrote, Sarah.
00:14:44
Speaker
And I hope it went... What are you going to name this one?
00:14:49
Speaker
Explosive diarrhea?
00:14:50
Speaker
Scroats?
00:14:51
Speaker
An explosive experience.
00:14:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:58
Speaker
Not in that way, in brackets.
00:15:01
Speaker
Cool.
00:15:02
Speaker
Okay.
00:15:02
Speaker
Thank you, Sarah.
00:15:03
Speaker
If anyone else would like to submit a roast to scrote, a queen shit or a nasus to be read aloud on our podcast, please go to our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy.
00:15:20
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:15:21
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet.
00:15:26
Speaker
I'm your host, Ro.
00:15:27
Speaker
And I'm Savannah.
00:15:28
Speaker
And this is Lola.
00:15:29
Speaker
And today we're going to talk about overcoming defeatist mindsets.
00:15:33
Speaker
And this pod episode was inspired by a recent, some recent subreddit drama, wherein a lot of the original mods,
00:15:46
Speaker
And, uh, disciples and strategy coaches were getting a little bit upset, uh, about an overall negative defeatist turn that the subreddit was, had been taken in recent months.
00:15:57
Speaker
Um, there's some discussion on why that was a lot of people were saying is because Reddit had been slowly banning a lot of other female only subs.
00:16:07
Speaker
And by female only subs, I mean, both the moderators and the contributors are only female.
00:16:13
Speaker
Um,
00:16:14
Speaker
And so a lot of people from these other subs came over to FDS and that's subreddits like pink pill feminism, our fem cells, our web fems, leftover gender critical people.
00:16:26
Speaker
And because female dating strategy is one of the few subreddits still moderated and engaged by a solely female population, there's this pressure to be all things to all people.
00:16:37
Speaker
Not even all things to all people, all things to all women.
00:16:40
Speaker
Yeah, true.
00:16:42
Speaker
All things to all women.
00:16:42
Speaker
And that's just not something realistically that we can do.
00:16:46
Speaker
And then furthermore, the larger discussion is that a lot of these other groups, they were bringing an energy to FDS that was not the spirit of FDS.
00:16:54
Speaker
The spirit of FDS is always about self-empowerment and forward movement and creating strategies.
00:17:00
Speaker
Leveling up.
00:17:01
Speaker
Leveling up, creating strategies to better your life.
00:17:03
Speaker
Being a high value woman.
00:17:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:05
Speaker
being a high value woman, a lot of your groups were more focused on, you know, for lack of a better description, just like complaining.
00:17:12
Speaker
I mean, there was a lot of complaining about the way things are.
00:17:15
Speaker
And it's like, yes, we know that some of these issues are valid, but we have to move, figure out how to move forward.
00:17:23
Speaker
So I, this episode, I think we're going to go through and dissect some of those ideas, starting with the fem cells.
00:17:31
Speaker
I want to start off by saying that a lot of people think that the word femcel is a slur, and I want to be really specific about who we're talking about here, because femcels as a group are people who self-identify as femcels.
00:17:44
Speaker
Like, that's what they call themselves, right?
00:17:47
Speaker
And so a lot of people on Reddit especially think that, like, any woman that, like, isn't a pick-me, basically, is a femceler.
00:17:54
Speaker
Right.
00:17:55
Speaker
Any woman, like all feminists are femcels or something like that.
00:17:58
Speaker
They think like it's the new like feminazi.
00:18:00
Speaker
Right.
00:18:02
Speaker
But I'm talking about a very specific group of people, a very specific ideology, which are women who are critical of beauty standards and who feel that they don't fit those beauty standards and feel that that is what's holding them back from having a loving relationship.
00:18:18
Speaker
So the idea that femcel is a slur, I think can be traced back to the fact that incel, involuntary celibate, is often used as a slur, generally towards men, but it can be used towards women.
00:18:30
Speaker
I know we've all been called that numerous times, but it's interesting to note that the incel slash femcel movement actually started with women, and then over time...
00:18:42
Speaker
begun to be almost co-opted by men um and now we see incels you know commonly associated with men who are frustrated at the fact that they cannot get either sex or a long-term relationship um so yeah that's just an aside to to lit this point
00:19:00
Speaker
Yeah, they're self-identified.
00:19:01
Speaker
So this isn't us calling them as a slur.
00:19:04
Speaker
It's a moniker and an identity that they've adopted to explain why they have difficulty dating.
00:19:12
Speaker
And for all intents and purposes, some of the femcells
00:19:16
Speaker
take issue with FDS because they feel like, well, this isn't going to work if you're not top tier beautiful, or this is denying the presence of pretty privilege or lookism as they call it.
00:19:28
Speaker
So lookism is that the tendency for people to discriminate against people who are not as attractive.
00:19:34
Speaker
And, you know, our philosophy on this is that you never need, you don't need to be like outrageously beautiful to follow FDS and that the idea of pretty privilege is, the idea of pretty privilege is something that is overemphasized by the manosphere.
00:19:49
Speaker
But when you look and talk to very beautiful women, you can't outrun patriarchy with pretty privilege.
00:19:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:56
Speaker
And that's our entire point.
00:19:58
Speaker
And then secondly, the mentality behind labeling yourself as a fem cell ends up becoming a self-sabotaging behavior.
00:20:05
Speaker
You end up sabotaging the opportunities you do have because you don't want to go out there and try your best.
00:20:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:14
Speaker
And I mean, I've seen a lot of the fem cell types say that FDS is like hot girl dating strategy and that it only works if you're attractive.
00:20:23
Speaker
I take issue with this idea that FDS only works if you're attractive and that if you're unattractive, you need to have a different dating strategy.
00:20:35
Speaker
because FDS is actually more effective when all women have high standards and all women cut men off at the first sign of disrespect.
00:20:43
Speaker
Because when you have a, it's almost like when you have a different rule book or different set of strategies for unattractive versus attractive women, it creates that division.
00:20:52
Speaker
And it's honestly not that different from what you see already, right?
00:20:56
Speaker
Exactly.
00:20:57
Speaker
This idea that like,
00:20:59
Speaker
only attractive women deserve to be treated well, or only attractive women are allowed to have high standards of male behavior, or that unattractive women have to put up with abuse or mistreatment for men.
00:21:13
Speaker
I think that's something that... It's like internalized misogyny, right?
00:21:17
Speaker
It's like they're absorbing the narrative that only pretty people, only pretty women who are submissive and feminine deserve to be treated like human beings or well by men.
00:21:26
Speaker
And that's just not true.
00:21:27
Speaker
Yeah, or only attractive women deserve to have standards for men, right?
00:21:30
Speaker
Or for male behavior.
00:21:32
Speaker
Right, yes.
00:21:33
Speaker
Because, first of all, that's exactly how it works right now, right?
00:21:37
Speaker
That's exactly what modern dating culture is.
00:21:38
Speaker
And the problem with this idea, like, oh, only attractive women get to be treated well...
00:21:43
Speaker
Even attractive women get excluded from that because it's almost like if you don't meet this Instagram, you know, totally unrealistic beauty standard, like even Instagram influencers don't look like, don't fit that aesthetic.
00:21:56
Speaker
That's why they use like FaceTune and stuff.
00:21:57
Speaker
Right.
00:21:58
Speaker
And so all women find themselves like striving to be more and more beautiful if they want to be treated well, but because none of these women fit this like Photoshopped image, um,
00:22:08
Speaker
We're all chasing, we're all end up internalizing this idea that we don't deserve to be treated well because we don't fit this beauty standard.
00:22:15
Speaker
My position is like, it literally does not matter how you look.
00:22:19
Speaker
And I think one of my first posts on FDS as a moderator was, yes, if you're overweight, you deserve to have high standards.
00:22:26
Speaker
And I think that's just because a lot of overweight women or unattractive women have internalized this narrative that if they want a relationship, the price of intimacy is...
00:22:37
Speaker
And I don't think that that's something that we should be normalising.
00:22:41
Speaker
A hundred percent.
00:22:42
Speaker
And just to tack on to your point, Lilith, if, you know, being beautiful was enough to be treated well, like literally nobody would be divorced in Hollywood.
00:22:53
Speaker
The most beautiful women in...
00:22:56
Speaker
I'd say probably in history, people like Liz Taylor, people like JLo, they still struggle to get treated well.
00:23:02
Speaker
So the idea that it only works for attractive women, if attractive women don't have, I guess, a dating strategy or boundaries and standards, they will also be treated badly.
00:23:14
Speaker
I think where...
00:23:16
Speaker
There is some merit in this, in that argument is that if you are attractive, you are probably more likely to have options, which is probably true.
00:23:24
Speaker
But that doesn't mean that any of those options are any good.
00:23:27
Speaker
I mean, if we accept that most men are low value, you know, having more men come at you doesn't necessarily mean that they're all high value men.
00:23:35
Speaker
Also, I see unattractive couples all the time and they're happy together.
00:23:39
Speaker
So, you know, being unattractive doesn't automatically make you low value as long as you date someone who is, you know, similar to you.
00:23:47
Speaker
I mean, and we just had an episode a few weeks ago with Cornelia and she's Instagram beautiful and they're still mad.
00:23:55
Speaker
So yeah.
00:23:56
Speaker
Like,
00:23:57
Speaker
There's no winning here.
00:23:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:59
Speaker
Like you can be a literal 10 out of 10.
00:24:00
Speaker
And if anything, if you have high standards and you're beautiful, they'll get even more mad at you.
00:24:04
Speaker
So.
00:24:05
Speaker
Exactly.
00:24:06
Speaker
So I'm like, recognize the game being played.
00:24:08
Speaker
I feel like fem cells have internalized the misogyny of the manosphere and made that fact when it's not.
00:24:14
Speaker
Yeah, that's exactly it.
00:24:16
Speaker
That's just a narrative that men are trying to sell to you because it benefits them for you to believe that.
00:24:22
Speaker
Yes, 100%.
00:24:23
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like femcels, yeah, they've, it's almost, yeah, that's exactly, they've literally internalized the misogyny of the manosphere and accepted that as fact.
00:24:33
Speaker
And then for some reason they call that feminist?
00:24:37
Speaker
I don't...
00:24:38
Speaker
Like, I don't get that.
00:24:39
Speaker
That's not, I don't see that as progressive for women in any way.
00:24:42
Speaker
I see it as very regressive, actually.
00:24:46
Speaker
And the other thing is, like, with femcels, they're, like, really, like, mean to other women a lot of the times.
00:24:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:53
Speaker
After we banned a lot of these people, seeing, you know, some of the comments that they were writing about FDS...
00:24:59
Speaker
oh, they're all like autocratic dictators.
00:25:02
Speaker
They're mean girls.
00:25:02
Speaker
They're Regina George.
00:25:04
Speaker
They're this and that.
00:25:05
Speaker
And they're fascists.
00:25:06
Speaker
It's like, you know, they seem to have this belief that like women who have any boundaries or women who exert any kind of leadership are evil or bad or mean girls.
00:25:16
Speaker
Right.
00:25:17
Speaker
I mean, and so much of what fem cells say just comes across to me that like maybe they were bullied or a lot of their issues are actually just they are socially awkward or a little bit like,
00:25:29
Speaker
timid, maybe they're introverted because the one, I mean, I don't really know what a fem cell looks like.
00:25:36
Speaker
Like I'm trying to actually just picture what a fem cell actually looks like.
00:25:39
Speaker
And I can't really off hand think of like an archetypal fem cell because there's just not a whole lot of women where I'm like, Oh girl, you are so tore down.
00:25:47
Speaker
Give up.
00:25:47
Speaker
Right.
00:25:48
Speaker
Like,
00:25:51
Speaker
No, the thing is, like, I've seen femcell selfies, okay?
00:25:54
Speaker
When femcells was still around, and I think they still use Vindicta, a lot of them.
00:25:59
Speaker
But a lot of them will post selfies.
00:26:01
Speaker
And, um...
00:26:02
Speaker
Like, they're not even that bad.
00:26:03
Speaker
Like, they're not, like, hideous monsters.
00:26:06
Speaker
I think a lot of them just have really, really bad self-esteem.
00:26:10
Speaker
Yeah, it just seems like poor self-esteem.
00:26:12
Speaker
It seems like the thing that they could work on just, you know, besides obsessing about the physical standards is actually working on their soft skills and their social skills.
00:26:20
Speaker
Because so much of it seems to be...
00:26:24
Speaker
an internalized sense of shame and internalized, uh, sense of misogyny, low self-esteem, in which case therapy and also working on how to navigate social situations better.
00:26:36
Speaker
So they don't feel that constant rejection and that constant anxiety of, of being rejected.
00:26:41
Speaker
Uh,
00:26:42
Speaker
would help them.
00:26:43
Speaker
You know, I think some people just like internalize the messages they may have gotten in high school or when they were young and then take that well into their adulthood.
00:26:50
Speaker
And it's just like, those attitudes don't serve you, even if it was true at one point that you were rejected and you were bullied because you weren't pretty enough and you weren't this enough.
00:26:59
Speaker
Like those attitudes do not serve you into adulthood.
00:27:01
Speaker
And you'll find that you will find a lot more success in life and, and people grow up and grow a lot more mature that people don't
00:27:09
Speaker
If you accept yourself, a lot of times people are more accepting of who you are.
00:27:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:14
Speaker
I saw one thread on FemCells a while back that was like criticizing FDS.
00:27:18
Speaker
And it said something like, FDS has a blind spot that the reason why a lot of women fall for these manipulation tactics for men is because they're unattractive.
00:27:29
Speaker
And they think that, you know, if they want a boyfriend that they have to, you know, kind of go or, you know,
00:27:35
Speaker
Basically, the idea that femcels are much more vulnerable to abuse because they're unattractive, and so when a man shows them the slightest bit of affection, they go, oh my gosh, and have a hard time spotting red flags and so on.
00:27:49
Speaker
When I read that, my first thought was like...
00:27:52
Speaker
First of all, like men are really good at sniffing out insecurity.
00:27:56
Speaker
So whether you're beautiful or not, they will like men are like sharks, right?
00:28:02
Speaker
Men are to insecurity what sharks are to blood.
00:28:05
Speaker
They'll sniff it out miles away and then like go and then attack.
00:28:08
Speaker
Right.
00:28:08
Speaker
So if you are insecure or if you have low self-esteem, you're
00:28:12
Speaker
Yeah, like you're going to be way more vulnerable to men's abuse, for sure.
00:28:16
Speaker
And so the key to that is not to become more beautiful, because even if you become more attractive, you're still going to have that insecurity.
00:28:22
Speaker
You're just going to be attractive bait.
00:28:26
Speaker
Juicier, tastier, meatier, more delicious bait.
00:28:29
Speaker
Shark bait.
00:28:30
Speaker
Yeah, you're just going to be attractive bait.
00:28:32
Speaker
Like you got to raise your self-esteem.
00:28:35
Speaker
You know, I know a lot of them say like, oh, like, you know, I don't buy the just have more confidence kind of thing.
00:28:39
Speaker
Just having more confidence isn't necessarily going to attract more men.
00:28:43
Speaker
It's going to protect you from predatory men.
00:28:46
Speaker
It's going to give you the power to say no to men who are trying to manipulate you.
00:28:50
Speaker
Exactly.
00:28:51
Speaker
Exactly.
00:28:52
Speaker
And I also want to say I actually do have a lot of compassion for fem cells.
00:28:56
Speaker
That being said, like, I have limitations on the amount of emotional labor I'm able to do for other women.
00:29:03
Speaker
And so, you know, while I do, like, it is true that going through life as a less attractive person does affect your personality.
00:29:12
Speaker
mentality, right?
00:29:14
Speaker
I've talked about this with men a lot before, where I talk about how, you know, guys who are short grow up internalizing this, like, self-loathing and end up being kind of assholes a lot of the time just because a lot of short guys get, like, bullied, right?
00:29:28
Speaker
And so they end up becoming very, like, bitter and very angry about it.
00:29:32
Speaker
And a similar thing happens to women, and arguably it's much more compounded in women because women are told that their beauty is like the most important thing.
00:29:40
Speaker
So if you don't have that, you're seen as like worthless.
00:29:42
Speaker
So if anything, like the psychological impacts of going through life as a less attractive person is going to be greater on a woman than on, say, a short man, right?
00:29:50
Speaker
But here's the thing is like, I think it's going to be easier to change your mentality than to change the rest of the world.
00:29:56
Speaker
And that's the kind of my, my, you know, while I feel compassion for femcells, what I don't agree with is a lot of their calls to action, which is to try to, you know, destigmatize ugliness or, you know, fight lookism and so on.
00:30:12
Speaker
And it's like, you know, trying to get other people to find you as find you attractive is going to be harder than changing your own mentality.
00:30:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:19
Speaker
Uphill battle.
00:30:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:20
Speaker
And here's the thing, like going through life as a less attractive person, it's there's some trauma associated with that for sure.
00:30:25
Speaker
Like it can be traumatizing to be bullied for your looks.
00:30:28
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:30:29
Speaker
But that's on you to go to therapy and learn healthy, healthy coping mechanisms and stuff.
00:30:34
Speaker
And it's, it's not fair, but it's not good for you either to just like sit around on Reddit and yell at women who wear makeup.
00:30:41
Speaker
Right.
00:30:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:42
Speaker
Plus, plus you could be worse off.
00:30:43
Speaker
You could be a man.
00:30:45
Speaker
Right.
00:30:45
Speaker
Remember, like you have the vagina, you have the power, sis.
00:30:48
Speaker
I'm not kidding.
00:30:48
Speaker
I'm like, let's say you're just like, you wake up in the morning and you're like, listen, I hear you, but I'm like a solid 3.5.
Power Dynamics and Self-Empowerment
00:30:55
Speaker
Treat these one through four dudes like they owe you some shit for talking to you.
00:30:59
Speaker
I'm dead serious.
00:31:01
Speaker
You still won.
00:31:02
Speaker
You won.
00:31:03
Speaker
You woke up today with a vagina.
00:31:05
Speaker
You still get to choose, right?
00:31:07
Speaker
You don't get to choose all the guys, but you still get to choose.
00:31:10
Speaker
And a lot of the incels have literally nobody, right?
00:31:14
Speaker
And they know this.
00:31:15
Speaker
That's why they hate women, because they know we have disproportionate power in this arena compared to men.
00:31:21
Speaker
Yes.
00:31:22
Speaker
As a personal anecdote, but I used to volunteer in a homeless shelter working with people with addictions.
00:31:30
Speaker
And I went to some of the women projects.
00:31:32
Speaker
Now,
00:31:33
Speaker
I don't know how to say this in a diplomatic way, but some of these women, it was shocking the fact that men would actually pay to have sex with them.
00:31:45
Speaker
I'll just say that.
00:31:47
Speaker
I don't know how to be more diplomatic.
00:31:49
Speaker
Are you talking about toothless hookers?
00:31:51
Speaker
Honestly, these women wouldn't- Gathering up them homeless dudes like their own little army.
00:31:56
Speaker
It wasn't- Their only scrote army.
00:31:59
Speaker
I swear to God.
00:32:00
Speaker
It wasn't just homeless dudes though.
00:32:01
Speaker
It was also like normal, like regular dudes.
00:32:04
Speaker
These women wouldn't wash.
00:32:05
Speaker
They wouldn't brush their teeth.
00:32:06
Speaker
They wouldn't change their clothes.
00:32:08
Speaker
They would have, you know, like, for example, three teeth in their skull and they would still get men who would pay to sleep with them.
00:32:14
Speaker
Jesus.
00:32:15
Speaker
Jesus.
00:32:18
Speaker
Winning.
00:32:18
Speaker
Hashtag.
00:32:20
Speaker
Hashtag winning.
00:32:21
Speaker
And I remember at the time I was like, they're thinking, damn, I'm doing a degree and I'm just out here waiting for a text back.
00:32:26
Speaker
Like what the fuck?
00:32:27
Speaker
But honestly, like, yeah.
00:32:30
Speaker
And a toothless, gum-filled prostitute can get men to call her back.
00:32:36
Speaker
These women still get men.
00:32:38
Speaker
They still get men willing to pay for their company.
00:32:41
Speaker
So this is why I'm also... Pressed and stressed for their company.
00:32:44
Speaker
I'm also...
00:32:45
Speaker
I've seen homeless guys fight over homeless women.
00:32:48
Speaker
This is a thing.
00:32:49
Speaker
So... Honestly, like, and I think women as a class, we need to understand that men, a lot of men will do anything for a crumb of pussy.
00:32:59
Speaker
It's men who are paying for used panties for women's bathwater.
00:33:04
Speaker
And you're out there thinking that you're unattractive and desperate.
00:33:07
Speaker
Really?
00:33:07
Speaker
Really, sis?
00:33:08
Speaker
No.
00:33:09
Speaker
No.
00:33:10
Speaker
Just no.
00:33:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:11
Speaker
So, I mean, to wrap up this segment about fem cells, wallowing in self-pity, is it going to help you advance your own life and is a self-sabotaging behavior?
00:33:20
Speaker
That's not to say there aren't additional obstacles for women who find their looks challenging.
00:33:25
Speaker
Or that life for unattractive women isn't hard.
00:33:27
Speaker
It absolutely is.
00:33:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:29
Speaker
But understanding that being attractive comes with its own set of drawbacks.
00:33:32
Speaker
Being unattractive comes with its own set of drawbacks.
00:33:34
Speaker
The idea is to move forward and play with the card you've been dealt and that
00:33:41
Speaker
a lot of times the defeatist attitudes they have reek of internalized misogyny and aren't actually as true as they try to make it.
00:33:48
Speaker
Lookism definitely exists and it definitely negatively affects women.
00:33:53
Speaker
But I think making your entire identity around the fact that you feel unattractive, I think is going to do you more harm than good, as opposed to just trying to like, I don't know, just live the best life that you can with the genetics and with the body you've been given.
00:34:07
Speaker
So that brings us to our next segment.
00:34:10
Speaker
segment of women who were kind of, they were kind of booted during the perch.
00:34:16
Speaker
And this was the Wigtows.
00:34:18
Speaker
Wigtows stands for women going their own way.
00:34:21
Speaker
They're kind of the female version of MGTOW.
00:34:25
Speaker
MGTOW was the original, which is men going their own way.
00:34:27
Speaker
It's women who have decided to completely forego relationships with men, generally for a life of solitude.
00:34:36
Speaker
They don't date.
00:34:36
Speaker
They don't want to have companionship or relationships going forward.
00:34:40
Speaker
And they don't want to try.
00:34:41
Speaker
Yeah, I also do want to point out that MGTOW and WIGTOW are very different things.
00:34:47
Speaker
Like, MGTOW, I mean, they say they're going their own way, but all they do is, like, bitch about women and... Some of them still date women as well.
00:34:56
Speaker
Yeah, they just hate women.
00:34:58
Speaker
They're just normal misogynists.
00:35:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:01
Speaker
Yeah, they just hate women, but WIGTOW is actually legit serious about having nothing to do in a romantic sense with men.
00:35:07
Speaker
Like, they're very serious about it.
00:35:09
Speaker
Yeah, the MGTOWs, you can tell they're full of it because they spend so much of their time plotting revenge against the Feminazis.
00:35:15
Speaker
I'm like, this doesn't sound like you're going your own goddamn way.
00:35:18
Speaker
Fucking leave.
00:35:20
Speaker
Yeah, like MGTOWs, they commit to the idea of actually going their own way.
00:35:24
Speaker
And so I kind of respect that, actually.
00:35:26
Speaker
Like, they've got integrity, unlike the MGTOWs.
00:35:29
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I respect that, yeah.
00:35:32
Speaker
Yeah, the MGTOWs are just, like, men sitting around getting mad because they got rejected.
00:35:38
Speaker
You know, it's quite a bit different.
00:35:39
Speaker
Yeah, that's the thing.
00:35:41
Speaker
Yeah, and wigtiles are like, I'm tired of being abused by men.
00:35:44
Speaker
And so I'm just gonna, it's just safer for me to avoid men and male violence altogether, rather than just put myself in constant risk and constant danger.
00:35:52
Speaker
And a lot of them just, you know, they say they don't want to live a life of like constantly vetting and feeling like paranoid and on guard all the time.
00:35:59
Speaker
And it's like, you know, fair enough.
00:36:00
Speaker
I don't blame you for that.
00:36:01
Speaker
I mean, it's not a bad thing.
00:36:02
Speaker
It's just not FDS.
00:36:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:04
Speaker
Yeah, that's ultimately the crux of the reason why women who subscribe to a Wig Tao philosophy are ultimately...
00:36:18
Speaker
Like, FDS isn't for them.
00:36:20
Speaker
I mean, we would get posts about, on the subreddit, there will be posts from women who were just talking about their relationship.
00:36:27
Speaker
And then you just, you know, get somebody who was wig-tailed just jumping and, like, say, you know, for example, why are you still dating men?
00:36:33
Speaker
Or what's the point with men?
00:36:34
Speaker
They're all evil.
00:36:35
Speaker
And it's sort of like, it's just...
00:36:38
Speaker
It was strange to me that they would hang out on a dating subreddit when they just didn't want to date men.
00:36:44
Speaker
I don't have an issue with their ideology.
00:36:47
Speaker
I think it's valid if you don't want to date men.
00:36:50
Speaker
That is entirely your choice.
00:36:52
Speaker
But to then try and push that decision onto women who are heterosexual is deeply problematic.
00:36:58
Speaker
And, you know, you would get, you know, some of them would even go as far as saying if you're
00:37:04
Speaker
If you're basically heterosexual, you know, you should either become a political lesbian, in quotation marks, or you should just become celibate.
00:37:12
Speaker
And it's just, it isn't acceptable.
00:37:14
Speaker
And I don't know in what, I don't know in what universe it's okay.
00:37:17
Speaker
I think that suggestion is immoral because it would be wrong to tell a lesbian that if she can't date men, then she should just be celibate for life.
00:37:27
Speaker
It's immoral.
00:37:28
Speaker
Because part of like the human experience is, you know, love, intimacy, relationships and so on, right?
00:37:34
Speaker
And sexuality is a big part of that.
00:37:36
Speaker
And sexuality.
00:37:37
Speaker
And some people are straight and some people are gay and some people are bi and some people are other.
00:37:41
Speaker
You can't choose that.
00:37:42
Speaker
Yeah, you can't change that.
00:37:44
Speaker
That was the whole fight behind gay rights is that your sexual orientation is innate.
00:37:49
Speaker
It's not something you can just adjust at any type of political whim.
00:37:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:53
Speaker
And you can't like, you know, you're attracted to who you're attracted to.
00:37:56
Speaker
And like there's and that's OK.
00:37:58
Speaker
I think they hang out on FDS, too, because we have better engagement.
00:38:01
Speaker
We have better engagement.
00:38:02
Speaker
And also our moderators are really awesome people.
00:38:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:06
Speaker
I really, really think the moderator, the moderating on FDS makes the difference.
00:38:09
Speaker
And it's probably why we're left standing versus some of the other.
00:38:13
Speaker
female centric subreddits.
00:38:14
Speaker
And I'm not blaming them because a lot of this shit is just bullshit Reddit politics where they antagonize female subs in general.
00:38:21
Speaker
But some of it, like the reason why I think we became popular versus other types of subreddits that had similar ideas is that our moderators, like I think are genuinely awesome people who live pretty genuinely awesome lives, but just wanted to make their dating experience better.
00:38:36
Speaker
So it just became more popular to a larger group of women who
00:38:41
Speaker
you know, they kind of casually, they're more casually engaged in FDS instead of like the long drawn out discussions that happen on Wigtau or FemCells where they like go through the detail of every single reason why, you know, women are disadvantaged in society, which is, which may be in some respects valid, but also just like a little bit much and doesn't necessarily serve you out in the real world when you're trying to materially improve your real world life that doesn't exist online.
00:39:06
Speaker
I remember when I was a lot younger and I was like maybe 14 or 15 and I was having an argument with my sister and I was admittedly, I was being really mean.
00:39:15
Speaker
I was saying like things to my sister that were true, but they were not helpful.
00:39:20
Speaker
And my mom like sat down with me and was like, Lilith, you know, you can't, you can't be saying that.
00:39:26
Speaker
That's not nice.
00:39:27
Speaker
And I'm like, but it's true.
00:39:28
Speaker
And she's like, but is it helpful?
00:39:31
Speaker
And I think that, and that like moment really stuck with me because, and I think about that a lot, like even if I'm right,
00:39:39
Speaker
is this helpful?
00:39:40
Speaker
Like, is this actually being productive and is this achieved, am I communicating or going about it in a way that's going to get the result that I want?
00:39:48
Speaker
Right.
00:39:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:50
Speaker
And I think a lot of women, you know, get really caught up in ideology or caught up in the injustice of certain things and don't focus so much on the call to action, the solution to this.
00:40:04
Speaker
Right.
00:40:04
Speaker
And just get caught up in like the, the hopelessness, even if you're right.
00:40:07
Speaker
Right.
00:40:08
Speaker
Is it helpful?
00:40:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:09
Speaker
Because it's scary and they may not know what to do.
00:40:11
Speaker
And to be honest, like when it comes to dating strategy, we're all figuring this out.
00:40:14
Speaker
And that's kind of why it's become the community.
00:40:16
Speaker
It is because we didn't, we weren't all born knowing what to do.
00:40:19
Speaker
It's just that some of us are.
00:40:22
Speaker
started doing things by trial and error and started to figure things out.
00:40:26
Speaker
And I think the scary thing is for people who maybe have failed and maybe failed really badly and they're just afraid of trying again.
00:40:32
Speaker
But in order for you to empower yourself, you're going to have to take some failures while at the same time striving and running towards happiness and running towards improving your life, right?
00:40:43
Speaker
And I think that's just the difference between FDS and then some of these other philosophies where they're more or less like
00:40:50
Speaker
creating a lot of ideologies behind the choices that they're making to protect themselves or why they're failing.
00:40:55
Speaker
And they could be right.
00:40:56
Speaker
But the question is always, what are you going to do about it?
00:40:59
Speaker
And I had a therapist that said something like that to me at the time.
00:41:01
Speaker
I honestly hated her face, like where I was complaining about.
00:41:05
Speaker
I'm so serious.
00:41:06
Speaker
I can actually remember this.
00:41:08
Speaker
I remember that I was so devastated in the moment where I had a therapist and I was talking to her about all this really horrible shit that had happened.
00:41:15
Speaker
And it was true.
00:41:15
Speaker
And it was really, really bad.
00:41:16
Speaker
And then she listens really nicely and she's like, okay, what are you going to do about it?
00:41:20
Speaker
I was so fucking pissed that I actually did not go back to that therapist after about two sessions because I thought it was just like really, really harsh.
00:41:29
Speaker
And I was like, you understand I have all this shit going on.
00:41:32
Speaker
And years later, that still stuck with me because it sort of circuited my brain that
00:41:38
Speaker
Yes, all those things are going to be true.
00:41:40
Speaker
All those fucked up things could have happened and you could be really emotionally devastated.
00:41:43
Speaker
But what are you going to do?
00:41:44
Speaker
What are you going to do about it so that you can make your life materially better?
00:41:48
Speaker
And it is a hard, hard, hard, hard lesson to learn and even harder to execute, to be honest.
00:41:54
Speaker
But the hope with female dating strategy was to take all of these things that are obstacles for women having happy relationships and create a strategy that's likely to help us succeed both individually and as a group.
00:42:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:06
Speaker
And so for like the Wig Tao types, you know, if you, if you don't want to date right now or ever, you know, that's, that's totally cool.
00:42:14
Speaker
Like you do you, I saw it on the subreddit frame this way.
00:42:17
Speaker
Um, you know, it's okay to be vegan, but don't grow it at other members being like made his murder, like that kind of thing.
00:42:23
Speaker
Right.
00:42:23
Speaker
It's okay to, um,
00:42:26
Speaker
You know, to be like an environmentalist or something like that, but don't go around like yelling at people for driving or something like that.
00:42:32
Speaker
Right.
00:42:33
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:42:34
Speaker
It's OK to have your your beliefs.
00:42:36
Speaker
And here's the thing, like if you are not interested in dating, it's not like the barrier to entry to FDS is like you have to have a certain minimum number of days per week or something.
00:42:46
Speaker
in order to participate on FDS.
00:42:48
Speaker
Like you can be not actively dating and still participate on FDS.
00:42:51
Speaker
The problem and the bannable offense is when you go around and tell women like you're stupid for dating men pretty much.
00:42:57
Speaker
Or, you know, why are you even dating men?
00:42:59
Speaker
You should be single.
00:43:00
Speaker
You'll never change the culture that way.
00:43:02
Speaker
That's what also bothers me about that.
00:43:03
Speaker
You'll never change anything refusing to get your hands dirty and do the work.
00:43:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:09
Speaker
Honestly, like even if you're not actively dating men, there is value in just like...
00:43:16
Speaker
even if you're not interested in a relationship, like you're still doing your sisters a favor by going out and rejecting low effort, shitty men just to teach them a lesson.
00:43:23
Speaker
Right.
00:43:24
Speaker
Like you're not going to teach, you're not going to change the culture by not participating.
00:43:28
Speaker
Like, I feel like part of the reason why there's so many fuck boys and so many stupid, shitty men out there is just because they've never heard the word.
00:43:34
Speaker
No, they've never been confronted with a woman who wasn't a pick me.
00:43:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:38
Speaker
They need to repeatedly fail.
00:43:40
Speaker
Yeah, they need to repeatedly fail, especially the pickup artist types.
00:43:43
Speaker
I'm like, does any of this work?
00:43:47
Speaker
And apparently it does.
00:43:48
Speaker
The reason why it works is because the only women who are in the dating game are pygmies.
00:43:52
Speaker
And so there needs to be more women who are...
00:43:57
Speaker
based basically going out there and you know just rejecting shitty men left right center and until they finally fucking learn their lesson you'll be doing other women a favor by doing that yeah and and you'll also be it's also practice for when you eventually if you decide to find a serious relationship because things like
00:44:17
Speaker
I was, you know, my therapist has always said, you know, being able to flex and enforce boundaries is something you have to learn, especially if you come from a background where boundaries, you know, where you were not taught how to work.
00:44:32
Speaker
to have boundaries and to enforce them like a lot of women.
00:44:35
Speaker
Or if you were punished for having boundaries.
00:44:38
Speaker
Or if you're punished for them.
00:44:39
Speaker
Yeah, you have to, you have to practice that and force them.
00:44:42
Speaker
It's not just going to come when you meet a high value man.
00:44:44
Speaker
That's not how it works.
00:44:46
Speaker
It comes through practice.
00:44:47
Speaker
And yeah,
00:44:48
Speaker
Another thing I think that sort of annoyed me about the whole, you know, the wig-tail infiltration is that we, I think there were a lot of comments that the mods got, you know, saying that, you know, free speech, you know, you're censoring me, stuff like that when they were banned.
00:45:04
Speaker
And so I think part of being a high-value woman...
00:45:09
Speaker
You know, part of being, to me, like, high-value woman is, you know, knowing when to speak and also knowing when to keep quiet.
00:45:15
Speaker
I know that sounds really anti-feminist, but you don't always have to... You don't always have to voice your dissent in every... Like, read the fucking room, okay?
00:45:24
Speaker
Exactly, exactly.
00:45:26
Speaker
You don't always have to... You don't have to shove your ideology or shove your beliefs in every single situation.
00:45:31
Speaker
Exactly.
00:45:32
Speaker
You don't always have to.
00:45:33
Speaker
And it's something my brother taught me when I was quite young, actually.
00:45:36
Speaker
He said, you know, you know, you know, there's it's also in the Bible as well.
00:45:39
Speaker
There's a time to speak and there's a time to be silent.
00:45:42
Speaker
And I think that if you want a more stress free life and a less combative life, it's really it's a really important skill to learn.
00:45:51
Speaker
And, you know, sometimes, you know, not giving your opinion doesn't mean that, you know, you're agreeing or you're letting shit slide, but it's about where you're choosing to direct your energy in
Navigating Dating Culture
00:46:01
Speaker
the moment.
00:46:01
Speaker
If you're on a dating subreddit, you're going to assume that most women are looking to date.
00:46:05
Speaker
So if you're not looking to date, it's not worth your energy, you know, leaving comments, telling women not to date.
00:46:12
Speaker
It's just a complete waste of your energy.
00:46:14
Speaker
Well, we can get into this a little bit more in our next segment, too, about when we're talking about some of the more antagonistic radical feminist ideas that are super anti-beauty standards and straight-up female separatist.
00:46:27
Speaker
To reiterate your point...
00:46:29
Speaker
A lot of these people who are female separatists, to me, they remind me of people sitting on the edge of a pool watching other people swim and learn to swim and then being like, you're going to drown.
00:46:38
Speaker
You're going to drown.
00:46:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:40
Speaker
And it's like, well, you're going to drown if you don't learn how to swim too, right?
00:46:44
Speaker
Either you'll get tempted to go in the water because something will look particularly enticing or you'll get pushed in the water and you'll have to learn to swim anyways.
00:46:51
Speaker
So I'm like...
00:46:52
Speaker
Yes, people are going to drown by learning how to swim.
00:46:55
Speaker
A lot more people are going to learn how to swim and people are going to fail and fail and fail at swimming until they actually get pretty good.
00:47:02
Speaker
It just seems to me to be completely ineffective to just say, I'm not going to play at all.
00:47:08
Speaker
And then you have zero skills built up to deal with what are treacherous waters.
00:47:12
Speaker
It means you got to really avoid the beach and the pool forever, right?
00:47:16
Speaker
Because if you try to dip your toe back in,
00:47:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:18
Speaker
It's like, what, you never going to go swimming ever again?
00:47:21
Speaker
Like never touch water ever again?
00:47:23
Speaker
Right.
00:47:25
Speaker
If you dip your toe in and you just cannonball in the deep end, you're likely to drown, right?
00:47:31
Speaker
Because you haven't built up the skills in the shallow end of the pool or like built your confidence about how to navigate these situations so that you know what you're doing.
00:47:40
Speaker
You're doing yourself a disservice by not trying.
00:47:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:43
Speaker
And also like...
00:47:45
Speaker
Dating men, like casual dating men, as we discussed our rotational dating thing, it's like a great like sandbox mode for just interacting with men in general.
00:47:55
Speaker
I definitely started dating way too young, but I have to say that experience learning to manipulate men from a very young age has done me a massive service in my career, in university and so on.
00:48:07
Speaker
Like no understanding how to, how men's,
00:48:11
Speaker
Like learning how to hack male psychology is a valuable skill.
00:48:14
Speaker
And it's even if you're not interested in dating men, you know, you're going to have to interact with men, you know, whether you go, I don't know, in work or, you know, getting, you know, services done at your home or anything like you're going to have to interact with men eventually and knowing how to influence them.
00:48:31
Speaker
Knowing how to control them using language.
00:48:34
Speaker
That's a skill.
00:48:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:36
Speaker
It's a skill.
00:48:37
Speaker
Like it's only going to make you more powerful, not less.
00:48:40
Speaker
And how to maintain your boundaries when they come at you with bullshit.
00:48:43
Speaker
Because they're going to come up with a lot of bullshit, right?
00:48:46
Speaker
It's not even just like you going on the offensive with them.
00:48:49
Speaker
It's that understanding how to accurately defend yourself.
00:48:52
Speaker
Even if you don't go on the offensive with them, they will go on the offensive with you.
00:48:55
Speaker
And if you haven't figured out how to defend yourself in different environments, you're not going to be very good at it.
00:49:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:02
Speaker
And so like casually dating men is like a great sandbox mode for, for learning those defensive skills.
00:49:07
Speaker
A hundred percent.
00:49:08
Speaker
Use them for practice.
00:49:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:09
Speaker
Use them for target practice.
00:49:12
Speaker
Use men for target.
00:49:18
Speaker
Oh, I love it.
00:49:19
Speaker
Anyways, we call them high value men and mistakes, target practice mistakes.
00:49:26
Speaker
That's savage.
00:49:27
Speaker
Oh, that's totally going to get taken out of context.
00:49:29
Speaker
Oh my God, advocating violence.
00:49:31
Speaker
Probably.
00:49:31
Speaker
Anyways, we end this podcast with DIMAD every single week.
00:49:38
Speaker
Just tell them, yeah, just tell them like you have high value men and failed experiments.
00:49:44
Speaker
You learn either way.
00:49:46
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:49:47
Speaker
There's two types of men.
00:49:48
Speaker
There's high-value men and failed experiments.
00:49:50
Speaker
That's 100% correct.
00:49:52
Speaker
And you learn either way.
00:49:53
Speaker
Every experience with a man, good or bad, is a learning experience.
00:49:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:00
Speaker
That's not to say, like, I do want to say that a lot of women do have a lot of trauma from men.
00:50:06
Speaker
And, you know, if you don't want to be around men because of trauma, you know,
00:50:15
Speaker
It's understandable, but at the same time, do you really want to go through life in constant fear?
00:50:22
Speaker
Is that really the life that you want to live as being constantly fearful and traumatized?
00:50:27
Speaker
And what therapy does is it helps you to build the skills to protect yourself while getting rid of behaviors that self-sabotage your happiness.
00:50:37
Speaker
And
00:50:38
Speaker
Isolation actually sabotages your happiness a lot.
00:50:41
Speaker
People need social interaction.
00:50:43
Speaker
We're social creatures.
00:50:44
Speaker
And also, you know, it robs you of experiencing the beauty of life, right?
00:50:49
Speaker
You want to advocate for yourself rather than just hiding yourself and protecting yourself and letting – you don't want to let the terrorists win.
00:50:57
Speaker
That's kind of the mentality I keep when I think that way.
00:51:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:01
Speaker
You don't want to let the terrorists win.
00:51:02
Speaker
That's how I feel about male violence.
00:51:04
Speaker
And this is another thing that bothers me in a lot of discussions I see on FDS and other feminist spaces is like when discussing male violence, a lot of women say, oh, I avoid men.
00:51:13
Speaker
I don't do this.
00:51:14
Speaker
I don't do that.
00:51:15
Speaker
I regulate every single minute of my day to protect myself from male violence.
00:51:19
Speaker
And I'm like...
00:51:20
Speaker
Sis, like, that's what they want.
00:51:21
Speaker
Like, that is the whole point of male violence is to terrorize women and to get women to self-police and self-regulate their behavior.
00:51:30
Speaker
And so I'm not, like, you know, trying to victim blame women.
00:51:32
Speaker
Like, I understand completely why they do that, and it's understandable to be fearful.
00:51:39
Speaker
But at the same time, like, by...
00:51:41
Speaker
living your life that way and living in fear, constant fear of male violence and, you know, passing up on opportunities because of a fear of male violence, you're giving violent men exactly what they want.
00:51:51
Speaker
That's the whole point.
00:51:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:54
Speaker
Don't let the terrorists win.
00:51:55
Speaker
And men will have you hopping around in a circle in your backyard before they'll call out other men.
00:51:59
Speaker
So that's why you always have to put the focus on pushing yourself forward and your freedom forward and your liberation from men forward and not let them
00:52:07
Speaker
successfully intimidate you into being small.
00:52:10
Speaker
There's too many countries where the solution to male violence is female captivity.
00:52:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:15
Speaker
Oh, like male violence is a problem.
00:52:16
Speaker
Just cover your face.
00:52:17
Speaker
Just stay at home.
00:52:18
Speaker
Don't do this.
00:52:19
Speaker
Don't do that.
00:52:20
Speaker
Um, no, like I think we need to go out and live our best lives in spite of that.
00:52:25
Speaker
And yeah, is it dangerous?
00:52:27
Speaker
Is it scary?
00:52:28
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:52:29
Speaker
But I don't just as a moment of, uh, just out of spite, I don't want to let those fuckers win.
00:52:34
Speaker
And, you know, this is the reason why FDS is hated so much by men, because it ultimately, if every woman in the world, you know, followed FDS, they've even admitted that it will make their lives more difficult and they don't want that.
00:52:50
Speaker
So...
00:52:51
Speaker
Or that they'd have to put more effort into dating and they don't want that.
00:52:54
Speaker
Well, they'd have to put more effort or essentially, you know, make their lives more difficult and inconvenient.
00:53:00
Speaker
And because they're used to having, I guess, you know, life on easy mode, the fact that they cannot get us to capitulate through their essays, through their YouTube videos, through just, you know, trying to call us, you know, fem cells, single moms, everything.
00:53:14
Speaker
I think we've been called everything under the sun.
00:53:17
Speaker
Like,
00:53:17
Speaker
Yeah, we're white feminists, we're angry black women, we're, you know, bitchy hot women, we're, you know, ugly femcels, but like, ugh, yeah.
00:53:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well basically Schrodinger's like women at the same, you know, on the one hand we're femcels, on the other hand we're just whores, you sleep with anyone.
00:53:35
Speaker
It's very bizarre.
00:53:36
Speaker
Anyway, I digress.
00:53:38
Speaker
But this is the reason why FDS, it legitimately scares so many men.
00:53:43
Speaker
They see our power.
00:53:44
Speaker
They see that we're influencing women.
00:53:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:46
Speaker
They see our power.
00:53:47
Speaker
And if every woman around the world, you know, raised her standards and continue to date, they would either have to step up massively or basically, you know, their genes will die out, essentially.
00:53:57
Speaker
That's, you know, that is what will happen.
00:53:59
Speaker
Women, you know, we have the power.
00:54:01
Speaker
We have something that men want.
00:54:03
Speaker
And that is...
00:54:04
Speaker
I guess, our biology and our love and affection.
00:54:07
Speaker
This is why, you know, there's a reason why we see, you know, men are much more willing to pay for sex than women.
00:54:14
Speaker
There's not a booming, you know, male sex worker industry like there is the other way around.
00:54:20
Speaker
Yeah, no matter what LibFem's trying to tell you.
00:54:22
Speaker
what about male sex workers?
00:54:24
Speaker
But even male sex workers, though, their primary customer base, if they want to make any money, is other men.
00:54:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:30
Speaker
Is other men.
00:54:30
Speaker
They're not seeing women.
00:54:32
Speaker
Like, women don't have to pay for sex.
00:54:34
Speaker
And, you know, the fact that
00:54:37
Speaker
You know, that alone puts a premium on our company, on our value.
00:54:41
Speaker
And men know this.
00:54:42
Speaker
This is why they try to tear us down through patriarchy, through beauty standards.
00:54:46
Speaker
But if you say no to that and continue to have your standards, regardless of the noise coming in, you will always win.
00:54:52
Speaker
And this is why they're trying to have this fake equality where men and women treat each other the same because they know that they will still, in that scenario, come out on top because women take infinitely more risk when dealing with men than vice versa.
00:55:05
Speaker
And women have...
00:55:06
Speaker
like far less reward when it comes to dealing with men than men have with dealing with women.
00:55:11
Speaker
Men get a lot of free emotional labor, obviously sex, even if it's not the greatest sex, at least not traumatizing, right?
00:55:16
Speaker
They don't have to do any of the reproductive labor.
00:55:19
Speaker
Most of the child-bearing will be done by women.
00:55:23
Speaker
Nowadays, most women have jobs and most women are bringing in money.
00:55:27
Speaker
So pretty much it's all benefit for them for you to go 50-50.
00:55:32
Speaker
And no drawbacks?
00:55:33
Speaker
Very little drawbacks.
00:55:34
Speaker
Whereas women, there are huge, massive drawbacks to the 50-50 model because it's never 50-50.
00:55:39
Speaker
Our reproductive biology excludes it from being 50-50.
00:55:44
Speaker
Our reproductive biology means that men need to really step the fuck up for it to even be like 70-30.
00:55:48
Speaker
Exactly.
00:55:50
Speaker
For it to even be someone in the same ballpark as 50-50 is how skewed it is.
00:55:54
Speaker
Left-wing fairy tales, right-wing fairy tales, pick your fairy tale.
00:55:58
Speaker
Left-wing terrorist even, and right-wing terrorist when it comes to intimidating women into stupid ideas, self-sabitizing ideas, pick your poison.
00:56:06
Speaker
Um...
FDS vs. Feminist Ideologies
00:56:07
Speaker
So I wanted to move on to talk about our last segment of purgeys.
00:56:13
Speaker
What do we call these?
00:56:14
Speaker
Like people who are booted from the subreddit.
00:56:18
Speaker
That was the rad femme anti-beauty standard female separatist types, which honestly sometimes are indistinguishable from...
00:56:27
Speaker
some of the fem cell and wig tower rhetoric.
00:56:29
Speaker
But they come at it from a very specific radical feminist ideology that femininity is inherently a tool of oppression because it's something that men impose on women to perform for men, to be sexually appealing to men, and also to rob us of our power.
00:56:46
Speaker
And they also come at it from the idea that the best way to not have your power robbed or
00:56:53
Speaker
to not let men win is to just not participate in the game at all.
00:56:57
Speaker
Meaning like don't wear makeup, don't wear deodorant, don't shave, don't date.
00:57:03
Speaker
Some of them are full on female separatist and a lot of them are lesbian.
00:57:07
Speaker
So they literally have no use for men either.
00:57:10
Speaker
Nice.
00:57:11
Speaker
Some of them are lesbian, so they have no use for men.
00:57:13
Speaker
Mad respect, ladies, honestly.
00:57:16
Speaker
Not to diss that.
00:57:17
Speaker
I want to say that's cool.
00:57:18
Speaker
No, it's fine.
00:57:19
Speaker
It's just it's more easy.
00:57:20
Speaker
It's easier for them to make the decision to just fully not engage with men.
00:57:24
Speaker
And sometimes it comes across like they're antagonistic towards heterosexual women who desire relationships with men.
00:57:32
Speaker
I have to say it is completely unrealistic to ask the 90% of women who identify as female to stay away from dick for life.
00:57:41
Speaker
Like you're kidding yourself.
00:57:43
Speaker
And you're also, it's also completely a straw man to assign all of our oppression to things like beauty standards, because beauty standards are things that make you attractive to the opposite sex.
00:57:55
Speaker
But the work that FDS is doing is demanding more value for the beauty standards that we adhere to.
00:58:01
Speaker
Meaning like men need to adhere to things that we find sexually attractive in equal measure of
00:58:06
Speaker
to the things that they find sexually attractive from us.
00:58:11
Speaker
And that's more or less the FDS way rather than saying like, everything that makes you beautiful and sexually attracted to men is a tool of the patriarchy and you should reject it altogether.
00:58:19
Speaker
It's like, well, yeah, we do want to be attractive to the men that we want, right?
00:58:23
Speaker
We're heterosexual.
00:58:24
Speaker
We want to have sex with men that we want.
00:58:26
Speaker
And so this attitude that a lot of
00:58:29
Speaker
the radical feminist separatists have is very, very self-sabotaging to straight women because it's like, what are you going to gain out of your life by completely eschewing anything that might make you feel physically good or feel physically sexually attractive to the opposite sex?
00:58:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:48
Speaker
Yeah, I do want to start out by saying, you know, a lot of radical feminists in the aftermath of the purge were very, like, offended to be lumped in with fem cells and, you know, the wig tau types and so on.
00:59:02
Speaker
You know, some people were commenting, saying, you know...
00:59:06
Speaker
All the posts or comments that were talking about female separatists as being somehow related to radical feminism.
00:59:12
Speaker
A lot of comments like, oh, that's not what radical feminism is about, blah, blah, blah.
00:59:18
Speaker
Here's the thing, though, is like, yeah, it's not a core principle of radical feminists.
00:59:24
Speaker
Like, I'm a radical feminist, but I'm not a female separatist, right?
00:59:26
Speaker
A lot of women who are radical feminists, you know, like Gail Dines, for example, still marry men and have children and so on, right?
00:59:34
Speaker
So it's not a...
00:59:36
Speaker
you know, core tenet of radical feminism to be a female separatist.
00:59:40
Speaker
However, that being said, like, I don't appreciate the low-key kind of gaslighting that a lot of these women were going around saying when we know for a fact that these sorts of women do exist, right?
00:59:51
Speaker
Like, I get, on Twitter especially, like, I get radical feminists, like, you know, coming at me.
00:59:57
Speaker
I mean,
00:59:59
Speaker
Not so much on Twitter.
00:59:59
Speaker
I'd say definitely more on Reddit.
01:00:00
Speaker
And that's kind of one of the reasons why I just wanted to stop using Reddit.
01:00:04
Speaker
It was just because, how do I say it?
01:00:08
Speaker
Like, I, you know, don't appreciate the kind of misogyny that comes from the female separatists and almost like...
01:00:17
Speaker
kind of slut shaming that a lot of them give women who still date men, if I'm being totally honest.
01:00:22
Speaker
A lot of it just does seem like internalized misogyny and just attacking other women.
01:00:26
Speaker
Well, yeah.
01:00:27
Speaker
And it just seems like they don't have a practical solution.
01:00:29
Speaker
Again, it just, it comes across like they're asking us to never do or be anything that might be construed as attractive to men and
01:00:41
Speaker
Right.
01:00:41
Speaker
Especially and also it's kind of in denial that some women just do these things because they feel good.
01:00:46
Speaker
Like a lot of us wear makeup.
01:00:48
Speaker
Like I don't need makeup.
01:00:49
Speaker
I wear makeup sometimes and don't.
01:00:51
Speaker
But when I want to wear makeup, like I want to wear makeup, I just like the way that it looks.
01:00:54
Speaker
You know, it can be kind of a soothing ritual thing and human beings in general.
01:00:59
Speaker
have had grooming practices going back thousands of years.
01:01:03
Speaker
So this is not something... Even just animals, like when cats groom themselves, are they doing it to appeal to a patriarchal male gaze or something?
01:01:10
Speaker
No, they just want to be well-groomed, right?
01:01:12
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
01:01:13
Speaker
Animals groom and males and females groom.
01:01:17
Speaker
It's just that our society right now puts a lot more of the grooming standards on women.
01:01:21
Speaker
And what we're pushing back
01:01:23
Speaker
on is that lopsided balance more so than we're pushed and also on any type of beauty treatment that we think is actively harmful, right?
01:01:31
Speaker
And again, this is where we separate because we're not an ideology, we're a strategy.
01:01:35
Speaker
So we look at it from risk versus reward and cost versus benefit.
01:01:40
Speaker
Radical feminism often pits an ideology and an idealism and a philosophy about how women should be and the idea about liberation from men and rejecting the male gaze and rejecting being sexualized.
01:01:55
Speaker
That's often not compatible with the realistic desires that women have, right?
01:02:00
Speaker
Because most women do desire to have heterosexual relationships, right?
01:02:05
Speaker
The idea being that what we're trying to achieve is...
01:02:10
Speaker
more bang for our buck, to get more return on the investment that we do give in beauty standards by exacting those beauty standards or exacting equal, if not more standards on men than the ones that they exact on us.
01:02:26
Speaker
And that's why we have things like finest fuck Fridays.
01:02:29
Speaker
And we have things that talk about sex and talk about dating because the idea is that we're not going to stop
01:02:36
Speaker
being attractive to men or trying to be attractive to men because we are heterosexual women who desire companionship with men.
01:02:43
Speaker
And that's part of a, that's part of a balance of an interaction, right?
01:02:49
Speaker
You want to be attractive to the people who,
01:02:53
Speaker
are attractive to you.
01:02:55
Speaker
I think where we change is we are changing the narrative on like what kinds of guys are that women should put up with, AKA what kinds of guys that the media and a lot of like virtue signaling crap tells us we have to find attractive, like big guys with big doughy bodies and guys with like little peens and guys who are broke.
01:03:12
Speaker
Right.
01:03:13
Speaker
So yeah,
01:03:14
Speaker
we're saying that we have just as much of a right to be honest, realistic, and ruthless about the sexual standards we have with men.
01:03:21
Speaker
And some of the feminist types took issue with that because they were like, well, isn't this like body shaming men?
01:03:28
Speaker
Aren't you putting more the same standards onto them that you don't like on yourself?
01:03:34
Speaker
And the idea behind that is like, men will not stop trying to sexualize us or be as long as there are heterosexual men.
01:03:40
Speaker
Yeah, men are already doing that.
01:03:42
Speaker
Yeah, they won't stop that.
01:03:43
Speaker
Yeah, like by not body shaming men, it's not like they're going to stop body shaming women, right?
01:03:47
Speaker
Right.
01:03:48
Speaker
Or trying to like select for women that they find physically or sexually attractive.
01:03:52
Speaker
They're always going to do that.
01:03:53
Speaker
That is a that's just an innate feature of being a not even a human, but just being a being on Earth, right?
01:04:00
Speaker
Being a mammal, like an animal, like a living thing.
01:04:04
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:04
Speaker
Right.
01:04:05
Speaker
So this idea that we should not do or won't do anything that are attractive to the opposite sex when literally every other animal does this is just wholly unrealistic.
01:04:13
Speaker
The idea is to create a better balance so that we are actually getting and creating equal and more exacting demands of men for the sexual engagement that we have with them.
01:04:27
Speaker
Yeah, a lot of the radical feminists, like, you should be celibate if you can't date women crowd, and I know not all radical feminists believe this, but there are radical feminists who do believe this.
01:04:37
Speaker
It just seems like another way of repressing female sexuality, and part of what we want to do at FDS is...
01:04:44
Speaker
embrace our sexuality, but not in like the male pandering, like lip femmy way, you know, like lip fems are like, I'm embracing my sexuality by doing porn and I'm embracing my sexuality by sucking dick or something like that.
01:04:57
Speaker
And it's like,
01:04:59
Speaker
I want to embrace my sexuality in a way that actually benefits me and makes me cum, you know?
01:05:04
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:04
Speaker
A lot of women, a lot of women are guilt tripped out of having physical and sexual standards.
01:05:08
Speaker
There's all, there's all, we talk about this.
01:05:11
Speaker
If you watch Twitter or Instagram or anything, whenever a woman says she likes something, there's like a million guys who just dog pile on her and shame her for having whatever, having a standard that she likes.
01:05:23
Speaker
And then all the pick me's in the comments, like, I don't need this to be happy.
01:05:26
Speaker
I don't need this.
01:05:26
Speaker
And that's why we have the no standard shaming in the subreddit because we're straight up like, no, whatever a woman expresses as her sexual standard, just because you feel it's too high does not mean it's too high for her.
01:05:37
Speaker
So we completely reject the idea that women need to be policed in the things that they like.
01:05:43
Speaker
There's way too much policing of women's sexual standards when they become too high and not nearly enough policing for when they're way too low.
01:05:51
Speaker
Right.
01:05:51
Speaker
And that's that to me is the hypocrisy of a lot of feminist groups because they are quick to antagonize women who demand men pay for dates, who like women who wear makeup or women who are prettier than them or demand anything from men that like is more than a sandwich and a Coke.
01:06:08
Speaker
Right.
01:06:08
Speaker
Right.
01:06:09
Speaker
Feminists are quick to cut these women down, and that is not helpful.
01:06:13
Speaker
You have to encourage women to have standards.
01:06:17
Speaker
All this virtue signaling, all this cutting down of women who are demanding things of men, they won't make your life better.
01:06:23
Speaker
In fact, it'll make your life actively worse because it'll drag the average standard to which men have to behave differently.
01:06:30
Speaker
Lower.
01:06:30
Speaker
And it's not just material things, right?
01:06:32
Speaker
And it's also vetting strategies to help protect ourselves.
01:06:35
Speaker
These are very, very important things that women need to weed out a large pool of men who don't have good intentions, or at least neutral intentions or intentions to exhaust our female labor to their benefit.
01:06:48
Speaker
So,
01:06:49
Speaker
When we're talking about, like, I think that's the major thing that feminists that attack us do not understand is that you, like, you policing women's standards is actually making things worse.
01:06:59
Speaker
If you want to police something, police women who, like, go on laundromat dates, right?
01:07:05
Speaker
Exactly.
01:07:06
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:07
Speaker
If you want to police women, police like the Tommy Lawrence or the fucking Ann Coulters of the world who say shit like women shouldn't vote.
01:07:13
Speaker
OK, like go for the real like female oppression stuff, not this like, oh, my gosh, you're wearing winged eyeliner.
01:07:19
Speaker
You're doing it for the patriarchy.
01:07:21
Speaker
Like, fuck off.
01:07:22
Speaker
And just like the gaslighting, when I remember when the Fine Ass Friday posts were introduced and men and women alike were saying, stop sexualising men or stop objectifying men.
01:07:33
Speaker
Bearing in mind that all the pictures were of, you know, majority of them, the man was fully clothed.
01:07:40
Speaker
He might be in his underwear.
01:07:41
Speaker
There were no naked men.
01:07:42
Speaker
And all of a sudden that's objectification.
01:07:46
Speaker
But then if you go on to some of the porn subreddits, the stuff that men say about women is disgusting.
01:07:55
Speaker
And people are trying to say that it's comparable.
01:07:57
Speaker
You know, what was being said on your fine ass Friday was, oh, he's got a nice smile.
01:08:02
Speaker
Oh, he's so attractive.
01:08:03
Speaker
Maybe with the smiley face.
01:08:05
Speaker
That was it.
01:08:06
Speaker
And you're comparing that to a guy saying, I would love, you know, to take you in every single one of your holes.
01:08:10
Speaker
Like, that's the same.
01:08:12
Speaker
Like, stop, like, stop with the gaslighting.
01:08:14
Speaker
Male and female sexuality are not the same or they're not played out in the same way.
01:08:20
Speaker
And this whole idea that, you know, women shouldn't have physical standards.
01:08:24
Speaker
It's just like, why are you pretending that women don't have physical standards?
01:08:29
Speaker
I don't know why men would want women to pretend that we don't, because ultimately it's not just women who suffer if we have to basically bullshit them to assuage their ego.
01:08:41
Speaker
But they also suffer as well.
01:08:42
Speaker
Like, when they end up in a dead bedroom and they're wondering, oh, why does my wife want to sleep with me?
01:08:47
Speaker
I was like, well, mate, if you didn't badger her into finding you attractive or if you allowed women to openly express their preferences with their chest, she might have got with somebody she was actually sexually attracted to.
01:09:01
Speaker
But that wouldn't have been him, and that's why he doesn't like it, so...
01:09:05
Speaker
preach bing bing bing i mean it may not have been you but i'm sure it's just it isn't i mean just like you said that a woman being in a relationship with a man who doesn't find her attractive is devastating i'm sure if the the boots on the other foot and your wife is fantasizing about fucking henry cavill instead of you every night that wouldn't be very nice either
01:09:25
Speaker
Right.
01:09:26
Speaker
And men used to call women like that frigid and then say they needed medical intervention.
01:09:30
Speaker
And so part of like, again, this is part of the sexism and patriarchy is women not being able to honestly express their sexual desires, even if it hurts men's feelings, right?
01:09:40
Speaker
So policing women's speech in this manner is actually doing us all a disservice because if like women stop being interested in sex, rather than telling them like, like your sex game is whack, your dick is too small, and you're built like a sack of laundry, right?
01:09:55
Speaker
And being honest with them about that's why you don't want to fuck them.
01:09:58
Speaker
And also like you're lazy around the house and I'm tired of cleaning your skid marks out of your drawers.
01:10:02
Speaker
If you're not honest about that, then men will start to come to their own conclusions and they'll be like, there must be something wrong with her.
01:10:09
Speaker
Let's put her on pills and like, let's medicate her.
01:10:12
Speaker
You know, like that's, that's traditionally been what's happened to women who were not allowed to be honest about like sexual expression is, is,
01:10:21
Speaker
when it hurt men's feelings is men start to pathologize them as mentally ill.
01:10:26
Speaker
Yeah.
01:10:27
Speaker
I mean, I think a lot of this criticism that we're talking about right now, like in terms of policing women's standards is more coming from liberal feminism.
01:10:35
Speaker
Like a lot of, you know, a lot of the policing that's about, um, Oh, you should lower your standards and stuff.
01:10:40
Speaker
I think with, um, with rad femmes, I think it's, if anything, it's the opposite.
01:10:44
Speaker
I think, um,
01:10:45
Speaker
No, it's them too.
01:10:46
Speaker
It's definitely them too.
01:10:47
Speaker
And their big reason is because they don't believe in any type of gender roles.
01:10:50
Speaker
True.
01:10:51
Speaker
Right?
01:10:52
Speaker
Like they were, like, it's both of them actually true.
01:10:54
Speaker
It's just like, because they don't believe in any type of like expressed gender differences or gender roles.
01:10:59
Speaker
And this is not like, again, this is not everybody who falls in that liberal feminist versus radical feminist camp.
01:11:04
Speaker
But there is like the feminist ideology where they're very, very against like male gazey types.
01:11:10
Speaker
They're very, very against sexualization or objectification.
01:11:13
Speaker
And they're very, very against the idea of,
01:11:16
Speaker
separate standards when it comes to dating between men and women.
01:11:18
Speaker
And I think that's been kind of consistent across liberal feminism and radical feminism.
01:11:23
Speaker
And this is where I kind of feel like... Is like gender agnosticism.
01:11:26
Speaker
Yeah, gender agnosticism.
01:11:27
Speaker
And I think where we, this is where we somewhat borrow from traditional court, quote unquote, traditional values or traditional courtship is that there are different standards.
01:11:35
Speaker
This is where people call us conservatives, where we acknowledge like differences.
01:11:39
Speaker
Yeah, conservatives.
01:11:41
Speaker
Exactly.
01:11:41
Speaker
So that's why we get so much heat from and smoke from feminists, because the way that we articulate our values is that we are actually biologically different and those biological differences matter and inform the way that we're treated and the form that we have to move in the world.
01:11:55
Speaker
Painting everything as gender neutral ends up doing a disservice to women because we are not allowed to express our actual specific female needs that do differ from men then.
01:12:08
Speaker
You're only going to focus on the aspects for which it's equal for men and women, but not on the aspects in which it's very, very, very unequal between men and women.
01:12:16
Speaker
And we'll always be that way as long as we're biologically different.
01:12:19
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think it's like pretty bullshit that, you know, I mean, with Fine as Fuck Fridays, I was skeptical about it at first.
01:12:25
Speaker
But then the more that it got posted, the more I realized why it's necessary.
01:12:28
Speaker
Because so many women have been like just gaslit their entire lives into thinking there's something shameful about liking a guy with abs or something, right?
01:12:36
Speaker
That's just the difference between us and a lot of the feminist groups and why, you know, we get antagonized as being...
01:12:42
Speaker
not great feminists.
01:12:44
Speaker
Yeah.
01:12:44
Speaker
I mean, here's the thing though, is like, I don't really expect everyone to agree with FDS.
01:12:49
Speaker
Like FDS goes against a lot and challenges a lot of mainstream narratives, a lot of mainstream ideologies.
FDS Origins and Community Engagement
01:12:55
Speaker
You know, sometimes we align, I think like our analysis of the world is similar to radical feminism, but that our calls to action or our recommendations are not the same.
01:13:05
Speaker
the main thing that FDS has in common with radical feminism is the idea of class consciousness and, you know, at least attempting to build class solidarity.
01:13:13
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:13
Speaker
Class, class consciousness.
01:13:16
Speaker
I just think that the solutions that FDS proposes are different or, you know, a lot of radical feminists disagree with those solutions or proposed solutions.
01:13:24
Speaker
So that's our, I mean, that's our two cents about like why we think some of these other female first groups have, um,
01:13:32
Speaker
Mindsets that are not really compatible with FDS and why that purge and the subreddit had to happen.
01:13:37
Speaker
We have a weekly thread.
01:13:39
Speaker
Maybe let us know your thoughts on this episode.
01:13:40
Speaker
We can discuss it further because I actually would be, I'd be interested to hear people see back on this and what they think.
01:13:45
Speaker
But that was the intention from talking to the original mods and a lot of the original strategy coaches and people who have been here since like,
01:13:51
Speaker
And it hasn't even been that long, right?
01:13:53
Speaker
Because FDS has only been around since 2019.
01:13:57
Speaker
February 2019, yeah.
01:13:58
Speaker
So two and a half years.
01:14:00
Speaker
Two years.
01:14:01
Speaker
Yeah, the architects of the FDS method was a dating strategy, right?
01:14:06
Speaker
And was, you know, from the...
01:14:09
Speaker
perspectives that we shared a little bit earlier about how to self-empower yourself in an environment like this.
01:14:14
Speaker
So, but that, yeah, hopefully you guys understand that explanation.
01:14:20
Speaker
Cool.
01:14:21
Speaker
And that's our show.
01:14:22
Speaker
Please check out our Twitter at fem.strat, as well as our Patreon, patreon.com forward slash female dating strategy, as well as our website, thefemaledatingstrategy.com.
01:14:32
Speaker
Thanks for listening, Queens.
01:14:33
Speaker
And for all you scrotes out there, we don't negotiate with terrorists.
01:14:36
Speaker
Die mad.
01:14:37
Speaker
See you next week.
01:14:38
Speaker
Thank you.