Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
The Full Story of Winston Moseley - the man who murdered Kitty Genovese
77 Plays1 year ago
Today's story is one that most true crime lovers have heard before - heck I've heard it before 100 times. Never did I know past the coined phrase "by-stander effect" that came from these horrific events. However, after doing a little bit of digging, and hearing others, I cannot believe the full tale is not told more often. So buckle up buttercup, we are in for a ride.
TRIGGER WARNINGS - Rape and the abysmal poor treatment of African Americans & LGBTQ+ Individuals
Come say hi or just look at photos:
Facebook - TwistedTales True Crime
Instagram - TwistedTales_Pod
Email - [email protected]
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Greetings
00:00:05
Speaker
Well, good afternoon. I'm just going to say afternoon this time, usually I feel like a whole montage. Yeah, really, it's just it's raining and nobody cares. Yeah. Good day. Good day to you. Good day to you. That's where I'm going to go from now on. Good day from now on. Yeah, I know. We already discussed. I have it's going to be it's going to be a day. It's going to be a long episode, guys, not just I'm already talking faster. Yeah.
00:00:29
Speaker
All right. Well, this is just the tales of faith and Lisa. In case you didn't know where you are. Now you do. Congratulations. Had to make sure my mic was on. Sorry. Yep. I always check that for you because you can't be trusted to make right decisions. All right. Well, not that I'm irresponsible. It's just mostly that I'm not responsible. That makes you feel better to phrase it that way.
00:00:52
Speaker
You got stuck, didn't you? Yeah, I got
Podcast Updates and Listener Feedback
00:00:55
Speaker
nothing now. Well, shite faces. All right, well. I look upon you with scorn.
00:01:04
Speaker
um this is faith and it's my my night um i don't know if you've noticed we've gone off the rails guys we had a few episodes backlog we've been busy with the new year and trying to catch up at work and whatnot so there's no particular order anymore faith for once got hit with the plague i did get sick for like ever and so now it's not just lisa that's diseased
00:01:27
Speaker
It's but it was faith to it But if you go back and look at the episodes like used to it was a nice order like hey Lisa Faith Lisa now It's like faith a faith Lisa Faith Lisa Lisa Lisa Faith Lisa. Oh, well, you know what you're here because you don't care at least there's
00:01:47
Speaker
your death, I will report more. That's right. Now we got to step up a lot because we're out of our backlog. Maybe we just skip posting a few weeks and then we get a backlog again. Isn't that what happened last time? Yeah, that would be amazing. Except, you know, people just stop listening. Our moms will still support us. It's okay.
00:02:06
Speaker
Yeah. Anyway, I have a friend at work that follows us now and she likes us. Awesome. Thank you friend at work. Thanks. We're funny. And she was like, cause we're hilarious. She said, I like you guys to squirrel moments. And I was like, what do you mean? And she goes, you guys go off topic a lot. And I was like, yeah.
00:02:24
Speaker
That's I have no justification. That's not true. Yeah, it's hurtful, but it's not true. Something shiny. Yeah.
Squirrel Moments and Anecdotes
00:02:31
Speaker
Right. Do you know my mom fell down a flight of steps once because she literally saw something shiny in a tree outside at church when she was at work. So she looked out the window and she's like staring and missed a step and fell all the way down the steps in the front lobby.
00:02:48
Speaker
Yeah, but that's because it was slippery. She literally saw something shiny in the trees, Lisa. But the whole soul of my shoe just fell off. I remember that. So those were my favorite shoes. Just in case you didn't know, that is an example of a squirrel moment. Kind of like what we're doing right now. Exhibit A. Exhibit A. All right.
Exploration of the Bystander Effect
00:03:08
Speaker
Well, I must start.
00:03:10
Speaker
All right, so I am telling a story and before you will, you know, because of the title, but it is a very well known story in the true crime world. I've heard the story 100 times. I've read this story 100 times.
00:03:22
Speaker
I've only heard part of this story and the other part of the story is so flabbergasting and equal parts hilarious that sometimes in my own morbid opinion. So I'm gonna tell the whole thing. And I'm telling it for that reason, number one. But number two, I'm telling this story, like I've had it on the dockets for a while because I asked you, Lisa, quite a while ago, do you know what the bystander effect is? Yes. What did you say it was? Like to look upon and do nothing.
00:03:52
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. But when we did this originally, you were like, yeah, it's when you see something happening and you help. And I was like, no, that's the opposite. Oh, yes. Yes. Okay. I do remember that. Yeah. Okay. So that's the other part is I'm going to tell you, this is this case.
00:04:07
Speaker
is how the term bystander effect basically got its start. Yeah, it's kind of like rubbernecking. Yeah, you can sit and you can watch something. Yeah. And then not not be one of the ones that get out of like, you know, yeah, flaming car on the interstate. I'm going to slow down. I'm going to watch the flames, but I'm not going to pull over to see if anybody's it. Right. Exactly. So because someone else is going to do it. There's tons of people around.
00:04:33
Speaker
So that is this case. It's the case where that the whole thing pretty much got started, got coined. It's like I said, super well-known story. It's the case of Kenny Genovese. It is, here's my problem with it. While it is very well known. A, the second part, like I said, isn't talked about and there are some really humorous, humorous things in my opinion. Actually, I tried to tell your brother about it and he was like, what is wrong with you? And I was like, that's hilarious. What is wrong with you?
00:05:03
Speaker
But we'll get there. If I don't
Life of Kitty Genovese
00:05:05
Speaker
laugh, we both know faith is about to be committed. No, there's no way I know you. There's no way you're not going to lose it. I'm going to not laugh only because I did really good on that one podcast, not ruining anything. Even though I really wanted to like I wanted to blow up.
00:05:21
Speaker
I didn't just reference that WTF episode. Yeah. Did you ever watch it? OK, here's the thing. Glad you said that. OK, so now we don't have enough people criticizing us yet to tell us every time we mess up on something. So we haven't had to have like a trashy one. But this is Lisa and Faith are in the naughty corner because I asked you, is this what it's called on Netflix?
00:05:47
Speaker
Like I gave you the title, I looked it up right there and I said, is this what it's called on Netflix? And you're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That was not the right movie.
00:05:54
Speaker
No, I told you at the very end, it's called don't pick up the phone. Yeah, but I said I was looking up and I said, oh, is it the caller? Don't pick up the phone. And you're like, yeah, that's not the right one. Oh, just don't pick up the phone. Don't pick up the phone. That's my dad. The caller don't pick up the phone is like a psychological thriller, which is a great movie. Not going to lie. It could be worse. But that's not it. It could be worse. Yeah, it could have been important. It could. It could have been. Yeah. So I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But
00:06:23
Speaker
So don't pick up the phone anyway. Yes, continue. All right. But here's the problem with this case. It is very well known.
00:06:31
Speaker
And anybody who has taken an intro psychology 101 class in college has heard about this case. I have not read about this case probably been tested about this case. But like with so many other things in school, we cram for the test and then we dump that knowledge and information because it's not needed. But we never actually stopped to think about the fact.
00:06:55
Speaker
This is not just test material. This is a true story. It happened. And I've taken five or six psychology classes when I went into nursing school. I was going to say you at different fields. I was in business. Yeah. But the deal is we don't ever, ever look deeper than what we need. We hear about it, but we just...
00:07:18
Speaker
It's done. It's over. It wasn't a person. It's something that we needed to take a test on, learn, and it coined a phrase and that's it. So I want to tell you the whole story. Well, that's the difference between being youthful and being an adult. Yeah. And like the older you get, you start looking into things with a little bit more depth. Yeah. Yeah. So I just wanted to throw that out there. Go ahead. So are you ready, Lisa?
00:07:46
Speaker
Doesn't matter. We're going anyway. I got it. All right. We're going to start from the beginning. Like usual, Catherine, who went by the nickname Kitty Genevieve, was born on July 7th, 1938 in Brooklyn, New York, to her parents, Vincent and Rachel Genevieve, who, if you can't tell by the last name alone, were Italian Americans.
00:08:06
Speaker
Her father ran the Bay Bridge coat and apron supply company and her mother was a typical 1935 woman, stayed at home, raised the kids, housemaker, which kudos to all of you because that's not easy.
00:08:23
Speaker
But she took care of kitty and her four younger siblings in a four row home which was occupied by working class irish and italian families so. Very standard middle to low to middle class family in america the nineteen thirty five yeah.
00:08:39
Speaker
From a very young age, every article, anything you look at, Kitty is always described in one of the same ways, but they're all the same. She had this complete huge zest for life. She was energetic.
00:08:54
Speaker
She's classified as a little chatterbox, super popular, had a lot of friends. She loved her English class, her music class. She was a beautiful and charming young girl. And when she graduated from the all-girls school she attended in 1953, her classmates elected her as the class cut up. So all around just popular, funny, bright,
00:09:19
Speaker
Honestly, reminds me of my kid, like talks all the time, cuts up, just cute as a button. Right. So hold hold. Right now, she just graduated high school, so she's 17, 18. She was very pretty. She actually I've got I've got a lot of pictures on this one that I'll post and at least I'll show you a picture in a little bit. But she reminds me of a young Elizabeth Taylor. Like she looks like she could be related to her. She was a very pretty girl.
00:09:42
Speaker
Anyway,
The Tragic Night of Kitty's Murder
00:09:44
Speaker
after high school when Kitty was around 19 years old, her mother witnessed a murder in Brooklyn. So she's got four young children.
00:09:54
Speaker
And she said, nope, we're going to skeet. And the family moved to New Canaan, Connecticut to raise the kids away from. So you're in violence in the fifties with Italian and Irish people. Mm hmm. One can only assess mob hit. Yeah. Right. But either way, I would run to in your neighborhood. You just watched someone get murdered in broad daylight in your neighborhood. I've got four kids. Bye bye.
00:10:21
Speaker
Well, I mean, but honestly, back in the day like that, though, it's not, you know, I mean, anybody that lives in those scenarios, I don't blame them for keeping their mouth shut. No, that's exactly what happens. When I read that, I was like, yeah, that was the mob. Yeah, yeah.
00:10:39
Speaker
So I don't want to be called as a witness. I don't want anyone to think. Yeah. Gang. Anything gang related from, you know, blood. Thank you. I saw nothing. I heard nothing. As a matter of fact, I'm deaf, dumb and blind. Yeah. Oh yeah. I wasn't even there. Wasn't even there. Yeah.
00:10:59
Speaker
It's like in Walking Dead when Eugene gets taken and Negan says, what's your name? He was like, oh, you don't have to ask me. I'm Negan. I've always been Negan. I was Negan before I knew I was Negan. I've always been a Negan. I'm a Negan. I'm a Negan. That's basically what she said. Like, peace.
00:11:14
Speaker
So I understand why they moved. I get that. However, Kitty was 19 years old. Her entire life, her friends, everything is in New York. She's out of school, so she's not moving to Connecticut. She's going to stay and she's going to start her life. So that's what she did. She moved in with her grandparents and got married a few months after that, moved out. However,
00:11:36
Speaker
The marriage didn't last. There's not a lot of details on why. I bet we can hazard a guess here in a minute, but we'll get there. Yeah. But it was annulled a few short months after
Psychology Behind the Bystander Effect
00:11:47
Speaker
it started. Same year that she got married. It's annulled. So after the marriage ended, Kitty moved into her own apartment to start her life. Like, she's an adult. We're going to do this.
00:11:58
Speaker
She loved being a New Yorker. She thrived on the atmosphere, the energy, the people. That's because they'd never lived in the South. Yeah. So, yeah. Sorry, I'm just kidding. So she worked briefly as a secretary, then a waitress, then a hostess. All jobs where she gets to be surrounded by people. Because remember, she loves people. She's energetic. Opposite of us. Completely opposite of us. Yeah. So she finally landed a job as a bartender and was going great.
00:12:28
Speaker
Sadly, in 1961, Kitty was arrested on the charges of bookmaking, which means she was a bookie and taking bets on horse races. And unfortunately, once she was released from prison with a whole $50 fine, she was fired from her bartending job. Nice.
00:12:49
Speaker
but you know she is a very resourceful girl and so she found another job pretty quickly at another bar in queens and i'm sure the fact that she was really pretty had nothing to do with that it did well she was also a very like they said she was an extremely hard worker she was extremely reliable um it was back she consistently worked double
00:13:11
Speaker
Yeah, pretty people yeah, yeah golden spoon it is but she consistently worked double shifts and this new bar that she Started working at it was Eve's at 11th hour and Hollis Queens and the owner was you know Not there a lot. He didn't want to work. He owned the bar So she very quickly became the manager and just started running the joint like it was her for all intent and purpose and
00:13:38
Speaker
So, and she made good money. Like she made $750 a month.
00:13:44
Speaker
Which doesn't sound like a lot, but I did do the inflation. Yes. So she was making like if it was today, she'd be making seven thousand three hundred seventy dollars and seventy nine cents a month. Yeah. I mean, you're looking at a time where a McDonald's hamburger was like five. Yeah. So for a single girl in a big city alone, she was she was rocking it. Yeah, she's doing it. Oh, yeah. So she's boss lady. She's got it. So.
00:14:11
Speaker
Oh, I went too far. All right. So sorry. So she she's making great money. She's doing her thing.
Community Reaction and Personal Impact
00:14:20
Speaker
And what she's doing is saving up for her dream, like what she wants to do for the rest of her life. And that is to open and own and run her own Italian restaurant. So her family is really proud of her. But she's a young single woman in New York.
00:14:36
Speaker
And Lisa, what pray tell is the one question all family members ask a young 20-something lady, no matter what station in life they are? Are you with someone? Yeah, when you're going to get married.
00:14:53
Speaker
You dating anybody? Yeah. Yeah. And so they'd ask her all the time when she was going to settle down and get married. Is there is there a special man in her life? And I'm like, I'm fat. I don't care. And no. Just no. No, I'm sorry. I've got a kid. I hate people. Yeah, right. Strong, strong, valid. But and any time her dad would bring this up, any time they talk,
00:15:23
Speaker
Kitty Lou would say no, man. I'm only saying that because I come from a strong root of the town. Oh, yeah, Emily. So that's why I am on the side of the family. So don't do that. No, at all. No. They're all like, hey, great to see you. Like, you know, normal conversation with a French Canadian.
00:15:39
Speaker
Yeah, they don't care about it. No. Yeah. So but this is the 50s, 60s, 60s. Sorry. And Kitty literally like her dad brought it up and she said no man could could handle being with me because I would make more than him. I'm just going to throw that out there. You could have really just pulled me back from that moment. Lisa, you're not fat.
Profile of Winston Mosley
00:16:02
Speaker
So you caught me so off guard by the coffin that I choked.
00:16:10
Speaker
No, you gotta do the cute baby syndrome, right? What's that? Oh, you know a fat pumpkin Is that the key bait like baby talk? I don't know what the key babies in I'm going out on a limb here No, I mean you've never met a baby that that's not cute I have met babies that are not cute and then like you're stuck between the parents and you don't really have anything to say because you can't be like I
00:16:37
Speaker
Oh, look how fluffy his cheeks are! That's what I- I know it's one thing that could be miserable. You're like, man, your kid looks like a Yeti, like- You can't say that to people, though. They don't appreciate it. You're like, oh, it's- it's so cute. Is it a boy? Oh, look how little it is!
00:16:53
Speaker
What did you say its name was? Brian. Okay. Nowadays you can't go off that because the names could be used either way. So they're like, it's named Sane. Oh, okay. We're dressing. Do you see the blue hat? Yellow. Just stick to the name. Just stick to the name. Be like, oh. Sane. Sane's so cute. Yeah. Bless this heart.
00:17:19
Speaker
People in the South know what you mean by that though. Oh yeah, by the people in the North. May not be totally hip to this yet. No, my little assistant whom I love, she's from Alaska. And so someone was on the phone with her the other day. I walk in her office and I can tell she's upset.
00:17:35
Speaker
And I hear her go, ma'am, I know that that's just the southern way for saying I'm an idiot. So I don't appreciate that. And I was like, but she also was like, what are you doing? She goes, they said, bless your heart. And I know that means I'm stupid. Oh, my God. I was dying laughing at her. I'm just saying you couldn't notice that I lost two pounds. That's all I'm saying.
00:17:57
Speaker
You're wearing five shirts. How am I supposed to know? I love you. I was just messing with you guys. I love you too. Anyway, so no man could put up with being married to her basically because she makes more than a man. So she's an end. She's an independent woman. Yeah, she's bringing home that bacon and it is. But there was no beef in her basket. Lisa just realized what she said, the bacon and the beef and.
00:18:21
Speaker
She's judging herself a minute, so if you could just give her a second to get over the words that come out of her mouth sometimes. It would have been one thing if you would just let it slide, but you took it and you freaking ran with it. I did because it goes to my next point. There's no beef in her basket. So the full story is why people don't let us hang out. Yes, it is. I know.
00:18:46
Speaker
So on March 13, 1963, Kitty actually met someone when she was at this little club called Swing Rendezvous in Greenwich Village. And this was not any random club. Anyone who knows anything about New York's history picked up on one thing I said, Greenwich Village.
00:19:09
Speaker
The club that she was attending was actually an underground lesbian bar. And that's why there was no beef in her basket. Oh, she she doesn't like the Italians. She does not understand. So that's crazy, because it's such a no no back then. Oh, it was it was illegal. Such a no no back. No, it's not a no no. It's illegal.
00:19:31
Speaker
So like your business would get shut down like it's against the law in the 60s to be a homosexual, which was one of my points. We'll get there. So March 13th, I always end up like making you go a little further than you wanted to. You're fine. You're fine. I'm on 13th. Kitty was at this club and she met Mary and how
Legal Proceedings and Challenges
00:19:52
Speaker
I'm going to try it once, guys, the long go. And these two to walk over to Facebook because I want to I want to read this.
00:20:01
Speaker
Zalanko. Z-I-E-L-O-N-K-O. Zalanko. Zalanko. Hello, there's Jonin. Zalanko. I would say... We're gonna go with Marianne.
00:20:12
Speaker
It's definitely Marianne. It is definitely Marianne. So the two women quickly fell in love and decided, you know what? Let's do the dang thing. And they moved in together. And they found a cute little apartment complex next to the Long Island Railroad Station in a neighborhood in Queens that was called Q Gardens. It was a small second floor flat. And it had about 14 other units, like apartments.
00:20:40
Speaker
On the second floor, the first floor were all businesses. So it's a mixed purpose use in insurance terms. But so the bottom floor is all coffee shops, little- I'm over here sitting here thinking like, you're like insurance terms and I'm all like, Long Island railroad. Yeah. Well, you gave me a word of books. I didn't know what you're doing. Sorry. So, um, so they, this is where the two women started building their lives and they were just exceptionally happy. So one year later, um,
00:21:09
Speaker
Literally, one year later on March 13th, 1964, Kitty had just left work at the bar. She's still managing the same bar around 3 a.m. and starts to head home. It's a super cold night. It's March in New York. I don't know much about it, but I see pictures and it looks cold. I'm not gonna lie to you. There's stuff sometimes. Yeah, just anything in the north between... Cold. Uninhabitable. January and probably right back to January.
00:21:37
Speaker
So all year round. Kind of sucks. No, I'm kidding. So she's going home. She's super excited to get home to Marianne and celebrate their one year anniversary.
00:21:49
Speaker
Which news flash it's 3 a.m. Garen guarantee Marianne sleeping and if anyone wakes me up at 3 a.m. To celebrate anything besides the fact I lived through a building fire and didn't wake up and I'm still alive I'll slit your throat like Mama likes sleep. Let's not know you don't wake you don't it's yeah like I can't even speak I'm so obsessed the dog is about to vomit on my toes Leave me alone. Yeah, exactly. Yeah
00:22:17
Speaker
So Kitty parked her car by the station and began the short walk to her apartment in the dark. Again, it's 3am. No one's around. Everybody's sleeping. The pharmacy and the coffee shop below her apartment are closed. Almost all the windows are dark. Everybody's, you know, asleep. What Kitty, you know, yeah. So what Kitty did not know was that she was not alone.
00:22:43
Speaker
A man named Winston Mosley had seen her leave the bar that night and followed her home in his car. As she started nearing her apartment, she heard footsteps behind her.
00:22:57
Speaker
which I have to imagine being in her shoes. You know, you know, we've all been there. Like you try not to like start running or act like you're spooked or act like you know what's going on, but you be aware, maybe walk a little bit brisker. Um, in today's world, we get our cell phone out and pretend like, Oh, Hey, I'm almost at the door. Come outside and meet me. Get the keys between your fingers. Something. Yeah. I don't know what the version of that in 1963, but I'm sure Kitty was doing that. Yeah.
00:23:22
Speaker
So the footsteps continue and Kitty finally gives into her fear and starts to run to the front of the building as as fast as she possibly can. But the footsteps got faster behind her and suddenly she was stabbed twice in the back by a large hunting knife. Kitty immediately. This is why I advocate for women to carry something.
00:23:46
Speaker
like I don't care anything I don't care if you have like freaking samurai swords attached to your back something carries him yeah yeah kitty screamed out oh god I've been stabbed and continues to like top of her lungs scream for help
00:24:07
Speaker
until finally a neighbor, Robert Moser, hears the commotion through his window, even sees the struggle taking place. They're right there. They're street lights. Like, they're not in an alley. They're in the middle of the street that has businesses and whatnot. So Robert Moser hears it and yells through his window, leave that girl alone. Hey, leave that girl alone. This caused her attacker, Mosley, to get scared and run off.
00:24:35
Speaker
Allowing Kitty to get up to her feet and and try to escape So while she's wounded and literally bleeding out trying not to die Kitty Halsey she runs as much as she's able to and she's just trying to make it into the building where her girlfriend is asleep upstairs Not knowing she's fighting for a life outside on their one-year anniversary
00:25:01
Speaker
She almost makes it to the building, like inside the building. She gets to the building, but collapses. They call it a vestibule. It's like a lobby or right, right, you know, where the stairs are. She collapses there right at the bottom of the stairs. Her attacker is no longer there. So she's got to feel some relief, but she's legitimately just bleeding out on the ground. Right. She thinks probably there's probably some relief, like I'm OK, but she doesn't know Moseley is only 100 yards away sitting in his car watching her.
00:25:32
Speaker
So while Mosley was initially scared off when the neighbor yelled out the window, he gets in his car and he drives off. No, drives off because he's spooked. But then he comes back in parks and watches his prey try to like escape and collapse. And as he's sitting there watching her, he realizes there's no lights coming on in the window. Nobody's coming down to check on the commotion. There's no police on the way.
00:26:02
Speaker
He's safe. So this gives him the confidence to finish what he started. He gets out of his car and slowly makes his way to where the girl is. But he's not stupid. He puts on a wide brim hat that's going to block his face from the apartments above. And he's watching streets and parking lots and his surroundings trying to make sure there is no one coming.
00:26:24
Speaker
until he's eventually standing above kitty who's just clinging to consciousness lying in the hallway at the back of the building bleeding out onto the ground. The only reason she's not inside is she went to a different door and it was locked and she couldn't get in the building. That's why.
00:26:40
Speaker
So once Mosley is standing directly above her, all of a sudden she's got a burst of energy and just starts screaming her head off. Again, help me, help me. Just screaming. So that made Mosley immediately start stabbing her again in the neck. And he continues to stab her over 10 times until she's literally just barely moaning, bleeding out on the ground.
00:27:06
Speaker
He actually heard like later down, he'll tell police, he actually heard apartment doors opening and closing during this process and during what happens next, but knew that no one was gonna come out towards the screens. So he decided to enact phase two of his plan for the night and he's gonna rape her. Right there in the middle of the courtyard, surrounded by apartments, because he knows no one's coming.
00:27:35
Speaker
So, trigger warning for the rest of this, just BT Dubs. He pulls down her pants, and when he saw that she was on her period, he instead raped her with the hunting knife.
00:27:50
Speaker
over and over, sticking it up her vagina while he masturbated and orgasmed. And then once he finished, he stole her wallet, getting all $49 she had in there, took her car keys, and just left her there to bleed out and die on the ground like she was trash. The attack lasted about 30 minutes, half an hour of her being stabbed,
00:28:16
Speaker
raped with a hunting knife, screaming for help with people above her, and no one did a thing. Nothing. No one came for help. No one called the police. Nothing. So I will say there's a caveat to that. At this time, 911 wasn't a thing.
00:28:43
Speaker
You had to call either the police station, the ambulance department, the hospital, the fire department, but call somebody. I am still just kind of like. Unless Guy has like a bomb strapped to him or like an AK, you know what I mean? All you have to do is confront someone. He ran away when someone yelled out the window. Yeah, he's not. I honestly.
00:29:12
Speaker
I've heard stories about like other like situations of like the crowd mentality, right? Yeah, and You know people will start doing things unbecoming of a human being. Yeah, right and everybody knows it's not okay. Mm-hmm Okay, and so the people involved in it don't get a slap on the wrist. Nobody tells them to stop I actually watched something at one point where again, it was in New York and
00:29:40
Speaker
And there was like a, I don't know if it was some kind of parade or gathering or whatever, but these guys decided that they were gonna start like tearing the tops off of women. And there were hundreds of thousands of other people around and nobody did a thing. And I'm sitting here and I'm like. No one wants to get involved, everyone wants the person next to them too, but that person's thinking the same thing.
00:30:11
Speaker
It's just intense. Like, yeah. I mean, I would rather take a hit in the face. Yeah. Or risk getting stabbed at that point in time. You know what I mean? Because like, all right, I'm a bystander, right? Yeah. You've witnessed what's happening right now. Yeah. Guys got a knife. Yeah. I've got a shot.
00:30:34
Speaker
Yeah, I've got a baseball bat. You something. Anything that's going to give me the footage to get the upper hand. Yeah. All it takes is one swift shot with a baseball bat or frying pan. All I would have taken is someone coming down there and literally screaming at this guy and he ran off. Yeah. Like just scream. The cops are on their way. Yeah. Like no one did anything. Yeah.
00:30:57
Speaker
So, records of the earliest call to the police in this situation are very vague, not well documented. It was clear she wasn't the top of anyone's priority list. Like I said, I will say this is four years before the implementation of the 911 system. This case is one of the reasons why the 911 system got put into place. But the reports that you can find on the police calls, there's only two.
00:31:24
Speaker
12, 13 units, only two people. One witness stated he was a boy at the time that his father called the police after the initial attack. Probably the guy that screamed out the window. No, not that guy. They won't release this guy's name. And he said that he heard his father say that there was a woman outside. She was beat up, but she got up and she's now staggering around. There was another witness named Carl Ross.
00:31:53
Speaker
And he watched, he saw what happened and said that he called his friends for advice on what he should do after the first attack because he wasn't sure if he should get involved or not. And his friends said, don't be a douche, call the police, I'm assuming. So he called the police and said that a woman was being attacked. Those are the only two reports of anyone calling the police on what happened. One lone neighbor who was a friend of Kitty, her name was Sophia Farrar,
00:32:24
Speaker
actually came outside after the attack was over and yelled for someone to call an ambulance and then she got on the ground and held Kitty in her arms until around 4.15 when an ambulance arrived. Kitty was finally on the way to the hospital, very traumatized and unfortunately her body had been through too much and she died on the way. She didn't make it.
00:32:49
Speaker
When her body was examined, her hands had multiple knife wounds, which shows she fought back. But she was just too weak, being held against an adult male bent on causing her bodily harm. She wasn't a big lady. She was a tiny little thing.
00:33:06
Speaker
So I mean, honestly, size doesn't matter at that point when you're a big lady or not men. Well, she got stabbed twice in the back. Well, the men are neatly stronger than women. Yeah. Fact. Yeah. It's just a fact. No, it is 100 percent. 100 percent. Agreed. Now, there there are some women that are freakishly strong, but.
00:33:23
Speaker
That's true. I'm wearing my Louisa shirt. It's underneath the sweatshirt. So that says homie that unzip unzipping didn't do anything. I have a sweatshirt on the Louisa shirt. Yeah, that was literally awesome. I can't look at my shirt and it says homie. This is why it says home with the Disney castle. Don't be a dick. It's an insult. My Disney shirt. I would like to point out for the record that the first person who swore in this podcast was as a dick.
00:33:53
Speaker
No, that's a derogatory name. Oh, I've got a derogatory name for you here in a minute. Anyway, so the day after this, I'm happy with that. I loathe the air that keeps you alive.
00:34:11
Speaker
It's the same one that keeps you. Yeah, yours is worse. But it's the same. So the day after the attack, the New York Times ran a very short blip paragraph about the events of the previous night. But then the day after that, they ran a huge article with the bold headlines. Thirty seven who saw murder and didn't call the police.
00:34:35
Speaker
because the initial reports, aka whatever police officer was out there telling the media, the reporters, that 38 people saw and or heard what happened and didn't do anything. Now, this is where the story gets a little controversial, I guess you could say. Can I intervene for like two seconds? It's never two seconds, but sure. Okay, so we're sitting here, we'll listen to the story of this woman being brutally assaulted. Yeah. In New York. Have you ever watched I Was Pray?
00:35:05
Speaker
Um, no. It's people that get attacked by animals, right? Oh, yeah. So I watched one of the episodes was this woman that got attacked by a polar bear.
00:35:20
Speaker
Stay inside stay alive. Yeah and She got attacked right and she's screaming by a polar by a freakin polar Okay, this isn't just some douche with a knife. Okay, this is a polar bear
00:35:36
Speaker
It's got like at least four knives attached to his big huge meat paws clawing at you. Just four? Not to mention the daggers that come out of his mouth. I don't know how many fingers are on their paws, so I went with four. I felt like it was a safe number. Yeah, for like one paw. Okay, Faith? Yeah. I love you. Four on each paw, I said. Plus your heart. Each paw. You did not say that. Yes, I did. No, you said four. I hate you.
00:36:04
Speaker
I know. Anyways, some guy gets his gun, right, runs out of the house to face this polar bear. Yeah. Tries to shoot it, shot it. That's just going to piss it off, bro. It did. It did. It pissed off the polar bear. Did he get eaten too? He's actually the one that died.
00:36:23
Speaker
See, that doesn't help. No, but here's the deal. You had somebody in Alaska who's like, I'm going to take on a polar bear. Yeah. Polar bear. Yeah. Not some like, you know, sycophant with a knife. Yeah. Who I'm pretty sure I can like decimate the side of your face with just one swing of a baseball bat. Yeah.
00:36:47
Speaker
What is wrong with humanity? Oh, no, wait, you're you're gonna get real pissed off by the end. I don't want to because I'm pretty sure I have an animal story that relates to that and how somebody else is a hero, like the woman who beat a Puma to death with a stick. Nope. Just to save her kid. OK, that's different. A mom will always not always. I know, but still even just a brand of people that intervene like, come on, man, you can't tell me that the savage self of a man
00:37:16
Speaker
and be like, I could take him. I could take him. I would hope everyone I know would do that.
00:37:25
Speaker
Your husband might not so much me. He just looks for reasons to fight, though. He's an angry Italian. Yeah, I just let the dogs go because I don't you know, I'm old. I fall in holes in the backyard. Yeah. I would like to say for the record, your two second blurb turned into three minutes, 41 seconds. I would like to stay for the record. You don't care. So we'll get right back in.
00:37:55
Speaker
All right. So this is where the story gets a little. We were going in the middle of a conversation with my brother. Your brother's going to keep talking about me. So something about Bora Bora in Gatlinburg. And I wanted to hear the he's saying the brochure he was giving on me. He was going to vacation in Bora Bora when he married me. He ended up in Gatlinburg. You know, the dream or resort. A.K.A. But not Bora Bora, but
00:38:24
Speaker
I'm a delight. Here's the thing. Yeah. And Bora Bora, you can get attacked by a shark. Yeah, yeah. And, and, and you can get C. diff like my dad did. So, ha ha, Gatlin Burke's safe. And you get really good moonshine there. So, screw you, Frankie. I have no idea what C. diff is. Is that work? We had to have the poop. Put in the poop. He didn't, he didn't have to do that. But the treatment, if none of the other treatments is a fecal implant where someone else of your family poops and they put that poop inside you.
00:38:55
Speaker
Yeah. Anyway, squirrel moment 52. Over. Going to have to be some editing there. That was I literally just had to pee. That was it. OK. That was it. So this is where the story gets all controversial because this story is literally still taught in psychology classes today.
00:39:10
Speaker
It's in the textbooks, but the problem is out of like the 10 different psychology textbooks used to mention this case, it all varies a little and the accounts of the event all vary a little. Some studies say that 12 people heard the attack and only two people called the police. Some studies say that they're around 49 witnesses due to the fact that there was at least one more than one person living in each apartment.
00:39:35
Speaker
But whichever story you go with is irrelevant. I just feel like even if you're sitting in your apartment, like throw something out the window. Do anything, even if you're like a scaredy pants. Yeah, you know, the fact the fact of them. Yeah, the fact of the matter is multiple people at least heard what happened and no one did a dang thing like that's the moral of the story.
00:39:59
Speaker
So the New York Times ended up writing a third article on this event because, you know, let's sell them papers, let's go. And in this one, they actually interviewed different psychologists and asked them the question, why would none of these people help? The only thing consistent in all the New York Times articles were that they were very sensationalized. They were making a grab for viewers and the facts really didn't matter.
00:40:28
Speaker
From all this, two psychologists, Latane and Darley, were their last names, actually dedicated their careers to why witnesses are less likely to help someone in trouble when they witness something terrible happen. They spent their whole careers dedicated to this one phenomenon. We're going to go back to what you were saying before, where Mama witnessed a murder. Yeah. Okay.
00:40:52
Speaker
And in that day and age where wherever you're living at that point in the like I'm sorry, but the geographical map Yeah, plays a huge impact. It's not it's not you impact, but it's today, too
00:41:05
Speaker
That's what I'm saying like your geographical map matters. Okay, like around here. I see something happen on Magnolia You know, yeah, what do you do? You know, like I could interview I could do anything I just but then your child could be without a mother. You know, those are the things and it's I think that back then especially with the mob and you said Irish and Italian
00:41:31
Speaker
Yeah, either one were like, you know, decent human beings at that point in time, Russians, whatever. Yeah. However, I would be scared to death, too, like because, OK, just I'll give you that. But here, but here's the deal. They let me finish. You're fine. They'll cut your tongue out before they'll kill you. Which is all true. However, there's one piece of this that I think matters more than that. This is the 1960s.
00:42:01
Speaker
We are in the middle of the civil rights. This was a black man that attacked her. You could do anything to him, and there pretty much would be no repercussions in the 1960s. Oh, because that's civil rights. We're in the middle of fighting for civil rights. They don't have any rights right now. Yeah.
00:42:20
Speaker
So you can say Irish and the mob and all this stuff, but you know what I mean? I do. But at the same time, like people are always going to look out for their. Yeah, I'm not saying they're I'm not saying that is a right thought process at all. No, at all. No, but but it's where it was even just in that era at that point in time. And I'm sorry, but I don't care if it's the Italian mob or whatever, whatever, whatever.
00:42:45
Speaker
If you see something, say something, right? Is that is that like the new phrase nowadays? Yeah, yeah, 100 percent. And it doesn't matter what ethnicity somebody is like. Dude, help. I don't understand. Like, first of all, you said these people are watching from their window.
00:43:03
Speaker
Well, we don't know that for a fact, but they heard the screams. So you're telling me you're here screaming. You're not going to go out the windows. How do you how do you just? OK, whatever. I don't know how you ignore it. I guess whatever makes you sleep at night. Let's go. So I actually have in my my next sentence in my note says back to the story. Yeah, completely relevant. I do.
00:43:27
Speaker
So mostly bailed out and escaped with absolutely nothing. The next morning, Genevieve's girlfriend Mary Ann had to go down to the station to identify her girlfriend's body on the day after the one year anniversary around 5am.
00:43:42
Speaker
She went home afterwards, completely wrecked, I'm sure. And to make matters worse, around 7 AM, there's a knock on her door. And the police escort her to the station and spend the next six hours questioning her because she is now the prime suspect.
00:44:00
Speaker
They had how many witnesses call the police saying that there was an attacker? Yeah, a man, a man. They said a man. And I'll give them all. You know what, though? She's gay. You know, but they didn't know that. They didn't know that at first. Oh, OK. Well, I was trying to play the blame. No, it's illegal. So they weren't openly gay. My sarcasm was through the roof. Just yeah.
00:44:21
Speaker
Totally irrelevant. On the one hand, any true crime fan and or anyone who's watched NCIS and with Genoze knows it's always the spouse. But that's not the case here.
00:44:35
Speaker
They found out that they were homosexuals and they believed she was the prime suspect because they were lesbians. Frankly, like we've said, it's 1964 being homosexual is literally a crime that was strongly enforced. The best thing I can do to relate to common day knowledge is think about the weed convictions in New York. And that's what they were like with the homosexuals back then. Let's round up this petty crap that doesn't matter. Yeah, even like biracial marriage. Oh, yeah. You're just fiends.
00:45:03
Speaker
Yeah, let's let's ignore everything else. But let's focus on this. This doesn't matter yet. Totally. Yeah. So during the six hour interrogation of Marianne, the vast majority of the questions were aimed at their sex life because, you know, that's pertinent information to solving the case. Well, if you're a male detective, I actually have I roll. It's again like you knew what I was going to say in the parentheses and I know I roll your freak.
00:45:30
Speaker
but the police believe that this was some sort of jealous rage or marion saw kitty with a man's and because she was raped with a knife and marion and kitty were lesbians obviously marion was mad about something and took it out like
00:45:46
Speaker
Anyways, so once they asked all their questions, they let Marianne go. But Marianne's victimization did not stop there because now suddenly everybody knows these aren't two just friends living together, but they were lovers and it was illegal. So Marianne was outed to everyone. Her entire community
00:46:09
Speaker
And at that point, even their homosexual friends wouldn't would no longer associate with her or talk to her because they were afraid of being outed as well. Wow. She got fired from her job and Marion had to move. She left the state and to this day, 60 years later has never gone back.
00:46:28
Speaker
And she actually does like talks in any interview she does now or anything. She talks about like how devastated and wrecked like to this day. She can't think about it. Yeah, just kidding. Not just everything else that happened. They destroyed that girl by outing her in one of the worst days, I'm sure of her life at that. I was going to say, I'm like, that's that's the scar. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like not only. Oh, have I just lost this person that I love to love, but
00:46:57
Speaker
I've lost all my friends. I've lost all my family. Yeah, I've lost my job every you've lost. They turned her life upside down. That's unreal. So back to the crime and offer soapbox. Winston Mosley got away. He horrifically murdered and raped this woman, Kitty with witnesses.
00:47:24
Speaker
And he was scott free. So who is Winston? Mostly besides a monster, a politician. No, no. Unfortunately, Kitty is not the only skeleton in his closet.
00:47:38
Speaker
So let me tell you about mostly and that that like right there, not the victimization of Mary Anne, but just the murder and people hearing. That's what everyone hears about. Like that's that's the part you hear is that she was stabbed. She was raped. They don't tell you she was raped with a hunting knife. Ow.
00:47:56
Speaker
But they just tell you that one part and that's the whole like that's the bystander effect. No, there's a lot more that went into it before after during. So here's the rest of it that most most public doesn't get to graphic. Yeah. With that kind of stuff. Well, I do so they should.
00:48:14
Speaker
By day, Winston Mosley was a very smart, quiet 29-year-old machine operator with zero criminal records. He was married. His wife worked as a nighttime nurse overnight. They had two children, five German Shepherds, which that's too many. And his elderly mother lived with them so he could help take care of her and she could help take care of the kids when they were at work. So great guy.
00:48:40
Speaker
And honestly, as a black man in the 1960s during the civil rights movement, he's doing well. Yeah. And by all accounts, he's someone to look up to. He's got a good job, a good family life like he's got it made like this is what you aspire to be as a young black person in this time frame. Yeah.
00:49:04
Speaker
But since his wife was a night shift nurse and his mother lived with them, he figured he's got a pretty big window of time to go out there and prey on women in the community. So that's what he did. The July prior went too far down the minute there.
00:49:28
Speaker
the July prior to Kitty's murder in 1962, he murdered a 15-year-old girl named Barbara Kralik after breaking into her parents' home while they were there in their bed and stabbing her to death. He got away with this because an 18-year-old boy named Alvin Mitchell confessed to the murder
00:49:52
Speaker
stating he did not remember stabbing Barbara, but he did remember punching her multiple times, so maybe there was a knife. It did come out in his trial that the only reason Alvin confessed to the murder was for 50 hours straight, he was interrogated, questioned, and beaten by the police until he finally signed the confession they wrote for him.
00:50:19
Speaker
The police told him to tell the judge that he blacked out and he didn't. That's why I didn't remember stabbing her and that he would basically get two years in an insane asylum and be set free. And they spent 50 hours beating him until he signed the confession to that effect, basically. The police, but it was it was a highly publicized case. It was a 15 year old girl. They needed to scapegoat and that's what Alvin was.
00:50:49
Speaker
I don't know that it's a scapegoat. I just think that they get so. Convinced like you're you're the perfect kind of vision. You're the perfect suspect. Yeah, because who honestly thinks when something like that happens that it's just some random guy complete random.
00:51:05
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, I mean, that doesn't happen. And so I'm not advocating for that. No. OK. But I also know. That when it comes to form of torture and actually making somebody confess to something, they like it is such a weird. They said they took role. He Alvin said that the police took rolled up newspapers and just beat him all night like a dog, like a rolled up newspaper. Yeah.
00:51:33
Speaker
But again, like I can advocate for both sides. You know, I can always argue both sides to a story. Yeah. So that just really, really, really sucks. So that was that was two years prior back to Kitty six days after Kitty was brutally murdered. This is the part that really pissed me off. I'm just be honest with you. Winston Mosley was arrested for burglary six days later. So this is what happened. He was caught.
00:52:03
Speaker
He was stealing a TV out of an apartment complex and the neighbor saw him taking this TV out of his neighbor's apartment and knew that that's not my neighbor. So he stopped and. Right. Are you. So he stopped and questioned him. And he mostly basically. That is not your TV. Well, most mostly told them that I'm not it's not my TV. I'm a mover. I'm helping them move.
00:52:31
Speaker
But the neighbor was a nosy-nelly and started asking, hey, do you know if they're moving? And all the neighbors said, no, they're not. And so, wait, no, no, no, no. Let me finish, like you say to me. So the neighbors banded together. One went out to disable his car so he couldn't get away. Another called the police and stayed on the phone with him till the police got there. And they basically detained Mosley for stealing a freaking TV.
00:52:59
Speaker
These neighbors banded together to stop him from stealing a TV, yet 12 neighbors did nothing while he beat and stabbed and raped Kitty. You have to understand the sanctification of a television.
00:53:21
Speaker
But it's not just this happens today, like this is part of it. People are more ready to defend someone's property than a person's life. But yeah, but how can you go a day? Like, I couldn't imagine. They didn't have cable back then, I don't think. I couldn't imagine. What are you watching?
00:53:38
Speaker
having to go a day without their TV, you know? Like, I just think that that's... It's infuriating. I'm sorry, and I know you're making being sarcastic, but it's making my blood boil that you're not more angry about it. No, I'm furious, actually. A TV meant more than a person's life. Here's the deal. The reason why I'm being like I am right now is because it's so effing typical... Yeah! ...of humanity, like... They suck! People suck!
00:54:08
Speaker
A TV Lisa and they banded together to stop him. A woman was raped with a knife and stabbed multiple times in the neck and the back and nothing. One person was decent enough to yell out his window, leave that girl alone.
00:54:29
Speaker
Yeah, but they suck. And they said definitely suck. And a lot of the stuff I listened to, like the psychology on this said that it's human nature. You will stop someone from stealing property before you'll stop someone from hurting another individual. And I think it's only because like the human mind automatically goes to brutality. I guess they can do that to someone else. What are they going to do to you? Yeah.
00:54:58
Speaker
Yeah. And so you kind of have to ask yourself the question like, is it worth it? Do I care what he does to me or do I care about this person? And I think that's the biggest deal. But the psych the psychology behind it doesn't even go that in depth. It's literally they think somebody else will handle it. Yeah. I'm going to take my popcorn and rubberneck it here. Yeah. So the police so cool, though, I'm going to stab you in the eye.
00:55:27
Speaker
I'm just telling you, it's about you. The guy was detained, not for murder, but for stealing a freaking TV. That's how he was caught. Yeah. Like I said, TVs are detrimental to the public. Yep. So the police show up and they go to search Mosley's white Chevy Corbere and they find the TV.
00:55:51
Speaker
But they also noticed that the car was the same car that witnesses described at the site of Kitty's murder leaving and coming back. Which leads me to believe people freaking watch from their window.
00:56:06
Speaker
So they more than likely. Yeah. Yeah. So they questioned Mosley about that night and he says, I don't know what you're talking about. So the police turn around and say, well, you might not know what I'm talking about, but your car does. Right. And so he basically confesses. I mean, like it's literally evidence, evidence, evidence, evidence. They didn't even have to twist. They didn't have to twist his arm like they're like, well, your car was there and he's like, yeah, all right, I did it. Oh, you didn't ask. But I also killed a girl named Barbara.
00:56:33
Speaker
And he just confessed. Seriously? Yeah. He also, in this confession, so he confesses to killing 15 year old Barbara, confesses, which they weren't asking about, confesses to killing Kitty, but he also confesses that just a month prior to Kitty's murder in February or so, he broke into the home of a 29 year old housewife named Aunt Annie Mae Johnson, shot her, raped her, and then burned down the house while she was still in it.
00:57:04
Speaker
First off, I know you said it was a well known case, but apparently been living under a rock. Yeah. We're all living at the least his first time here. I'm I'm. But they don't talk. They don't talk about Barbara or our our Annie Mae. You just hear about Kitty, the the murder and nothing else happens like that. Who that you hear what they want you to hear?
00:57:28
Speaker
Yeah, a hundred percent. So he explains to the police that all his attacks were random, which is why they never connected them to each other or to him. So basically.
00:57:41
Speaker
This was his pattern. This is what he did the night he murdered Kitty. He waited till his family fell asleep and then around 2 a.m. he got up and he left his house and he drove around for about an hour until he spotted someone that he wanted to murder and he spotted Kitty. He told them women were easier to kill because they typically didn't fight back and even if they did they were weak and he literally just wanted to kill somebody.
00:58:06
Speaker
So he spotted Kitty as she left her job from the bar that night, stopped her before raping and killing her. He also, during his little blabbermouth phase here, admitted to eight other women he raped and around 30 to 40 burglaries. In his confession to police, he detailed the murders, the assaults, the burglaries, everything. For instance, in Annie May's case, the housewife that he shot and raped,
00:58:34
Speaker
He stated that she was shot, but when they looked up her record, it stated that she'd been stabbed. So the police investigators flew to where she was, had her body exhumed to be evaluated, and she had been shot six times. He wasn't lying. He knew details that weren't even in the police reports recorded accurately. So he was 100% telling the truth.
00:59:00
Speaker
Um, like I'm, I'm in like with this story, I'm in a state of mind. Like I don't care what's happening right now. I'm going to cause you damage. Yeah. That's basically where he's a women.
00:59:13
Speaker
Somebody like messes with you just cause damage. Yeah, it's like that lady on TikTok or Facebook like here locally. There's all these stories in Tennessee where legitimately kids, people are just snatching kids like in shopping centers. Hobby Lobby is a big one in Turkey Creek because all the interstate exits right there like. Yeah.
00:59:35
Speaker
People are snatching kids. And there's all there were there was about like about a year ago, there's all these stories on the news where there was these close calls. And this one woman, which I loved her, they're interviewing her and she was like, I don't understand you, women. Or maybe she just posted it. I don't know. She's like, I don't see anyone. You're in a shopping store. Start throwing some canned peas at their head. Something like don't just scream.
00:59:58
Speaker
Get something on the island and I'm like, yeah, yeah, do something. I'm like, I'm literally just sitting here and I'm trying to put myself in that situation. And it's like. Everybody's instinct is fight or survive and everyone's are free to choose different. OK, because some women.
01:00:20
Speaker
are like, I can live through this. But I want to live. But I want to live. And if I fight, you can kill me. Exactly. And so having being faced with a choice like that, you know, I personally would like to think. You can always say what you want yourself to do, but you don't know until you're there. Not even a little bit.
01:00:39
Speaker
at all. So to add a little bit of insult to injury here, while Winston was charged with Kitty's murder, he was not charged with the other two that he confessed and gave details to.
01:00:57
Speaker
Um, in 15 year old Barbara's case, he was actually given immunity so that he could be a witness in the case against Alvin. So Alvin could be let out of jail. Who's been in jail for, you know, two years at this point. Oh, that was the kid that falsely. Yeah. Yeah. So they gave him immunity against it. If he would basically go on the stand and say, I did this.
01:01:19
Speaker
So, um, that's basically what he did. And I can understand that particularly. Yeah. Yeah. Because the government at that point, the lawyers and everyone, they're literally trying to get this guy out of jail who had absolutely nothing. Yeah. Yeah. So I get that. Yeah. You know, I can. So he, um, I really think at that point in time, whatever to get this poor kid, the kid was 18 whenever you can offer the dude, like offer the dude. Well,
01:01:49
Speaker
They went to they went to trial he went in and he gave the testimony and the jury went back. And literally in this trial mostly admitted everything.
01:02:02
Speaker
He said that he went into Barbara's house right before dawn, climbed up to the second floor, said what room her parents were sleeping in, like the location of the room, said that he walked into the girl's room and she made a noise. So he placed his hand over her mouth and proceeded to stab her six times with a steak knife he'd gotten from the kitchen.
01:02:22
Speaker
But the trial ended in a hung jury because one person just didn't think that that was true and said it was probably Alvin the Kid that was beaten for 50 hours to sign a confession So they had like oh no it just wait so they go on to a second trial and Mosley takes the stand again and Said you know what I didn't do it and I don't have to I have no intention of telling you why and that was it I
01:02:52
Speaker
would not game over, literally game over. No, because he'd already fulfilled his contract, his contractual obligation during the first trial. No F's given at this point. He's done. So Alvin spent another year in prison until they could finally acquit him for a crime he never committed.
01:03:11
Speaker
So in Mary and in Annie Mae's murder, honestly, there's no reason why he was never charged. The thought was. Mosley's already going on trial for Kitty's murder, so let's not muddy the waters. I guess I'm not sure why, but.
01:03:28
Speaker
He went on trial. I think it would depend on evidence at that point. He knew that she was shot instead of stabbed. The police records say stabbed. They exhumed her body to prove she was shot. But if you think about a criminal attorney who is defending the criminal, they're going to break hold. It didn't matter if it was in the 30s or
01:03:50
Speaker
But he was the only one that knew she was shot. It was even recorded wrong in the case files. How would he know that if he wasn't the one that shot her? I agree. And he admitted to it. I agree 110%. They should have tried. I'm not saying it's not fallible. No. OK. And that it's not stupid. No. I'm simply saying they have the most concrete evidence in this case. Yes, I understand why they did what they did, but I don't like it.
01:04:15
Speaker
Oh, no. So he goes to trial opinion. He should have been found guilty. He should have been released to the public. Someone should have secretly taken him to a back room and then like he slipped. And his butt fell onto the knife. See how he likes it. I was thinking brain, but yeah. No, I wanted to hurt.
01:04:36
Speaker
So now, OK, see, you're the one driving the morbid thoughts. I have I'm actually editing my morbid thoughts. This is the PG version of what I'm thinking. This is like a pair of despair for me. Yeah, I. Oh, so. Oh, we're not done yet with mostly. I don't like you. So during the trial, mostly initially pleaded not guilty because he's murder, even though he had already confessed. One second. Yeah, let it pleaded.
01:05:06
Speaker
We're talking about, we're talking seriously about a girl's life and you want to talk about grammar and my men's pronunciation. Shame on you, Lisa. Shame on you. Shame. If you could ever let one thing go. I know. That I say. So we're gonna ple-da-da-da-da. Yeah, we're ple-da-da-ding not guilty. Even though he confessed, but he did end up changing his plea to not guilty by reason of insanity.
01:05:30
Speaker
Well, of course. The jury listened to his confession and all the stuff and they went in and deliberated for seven hours until they finally reached. Can we all just get on the same page that somebody who's willing to take somebody else's life in that manner? Yeah. I am not talking about war and the people that have to fight. No, I am talking about somebody who can walk into somebody else's house. Someone who is a hunter that went hunting for his prey. Yeah. Like, uh, well, obviously.
01:06:04
Speaker
Which kind of helps his insanity plea, but we're not going there. But what I'm saying is, is how is it an insanity plea? Like, no, it's not. You still knew what you were doing. Not only did you know what you were doing, it was premeditated. Yeah. OK. Planned. Yeah. We're going to get there. Which is premeditated, by the way. Yeah, I know. F1. Well, you're messing up my flow again. Sorry. So seven hours, the jury deliberates and they come back with a unanimous decision.
01:06:27
Speaker
He's probably not normal.
01:06:34
Speaker
The court is very quiet. No one. Everyone is invested in this case. It's been splashed. It's it's the black Dahlia of its time. And they said guilty and to be sentenced to death. When the. Oh, wait, wait, wait. When the death. Yeah, when the death penalty was read in court, the people went wild cheering, screaming, applauding, standing ovation.
01:07:03
Speaker
The judge presiding over the court case said on record, I do not believe in capital punishment, AKA the death penalty. Yes. But when I see a monster like you, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the switch myself. AKA, you saw hell. Yes. Isn't that awesome, bro? Only it stopped right there. It'd be a great story, right?
01:07:31
Speaker
you right wrong you suck all right go unfortunately in 1965 New York City got rid of the death penalty except in very limited scope switch if there is ever a there's ever a sliver of something horrible enough to receive the death penalty did you not read what he's done
01:07:51
Speaker
Well, you know, what's I mean, what's really what's horrible? You know, I mean, I bet the guy that killed the one dog. Yeah. Probably got dismembered. Right. So mostly filed for an appeal after the death penalty was rescinded and goes back to court and had his sentence reduced to life in prison. Part of his appeal was he claimed the court, the trial court, erred and not allowing his mental condition to be told in court.
01:08:22
Speaker
They had a psychologist monitor him and state he was schizophrenic with catatonic episodes that were beyond his control. Basically, once he got the urge to kill someone, he couldn't stop himself. He couldn't tell right from wrong during this time. He was a slave to his desires. Pause. Don't. Wait. I see you. Microphone down. In my opinion, let's remember
01:08:46
Speaker
Number one, he is a black man during the civil rights movement, which matters to this story. I know it doesn't matter. He'll abuse today and it shouldn't have mattered then, but it does. He had a good job. He was married with kids and he planned his attacks or known in his family would even be the wiser. They were so planned out that
01:09:06
Speaker
He would go hunting for hours until he found a victim he wanted that couldn't be associated with him. There were no patterns. Everything was planned methodically. And yet you're going to tell me he's a schizophrenic and an insane person. No. No. But. In 1967, his sentence was changed to life in prison with the possibility of parole.
01:09:38
Speaker
So let's get on to what happens next. And I'm going to tell you for this next piece, I really wanted to stop at the store and get a visual aid for what's about to what I'm the part I'm about to tell you. But getting wiper blades in advance took a year and a half of my day, so I didn't do that. But so his sentence has changed 1967 to life in prison with the possibility of parole in 1968.
01:10:04
Speaker
mostly was living or residing or incarcerated at Attica prison in New York and Asked to be brought told the guards that he needed to be brought to the medical wing Why you might ask? Because he shoved a can of spam up his butt Like just just the spam no or can and all
01:10:34
Speaker
a can of spam. It's not real. It's it's it's a 3D rectangle. Can you imagine being the prison doctor who who got to see that? I can imagine being the person that inserted it. There's not a jelly in prison. No. A can of spam, Lisa. Faith. And do you want to know what makes this even better?
01:11:03
Speaker
And I will not take full credit for this because I heard this on the podcast gruesome. Do you know what Spam's motto or catchphrase was? We will fit anywhere. The meat of many uses. I like mine better. So he shoved a can of Spam up his butt. When the prison doctor saw that, he said, you know,
01:11:33
Speaker
I'm not qualified to assist you. I'm sorry. He shoved a can of spam. He didn't know how bad that has to hurt. That's what I'm saying. I'm sitting here and I'm like, it's not even comparable. No matter what angle you try. I'm sitting here and I'm like. How did you do that? Just take a really good poop.
01:12:00
Speaker
That's all I got I'm not I'm not I'm not removing that that can just it's it's it's now a part of you Yeah Yeah, you got you got a can now like literally two times Okay, I was gonna buy a can of spam just so you can see the dimensions. He shoved it up his butthole. Yeah. Yeah
01:12:22
Speaker
Wow. So he was transported to a hospital in New York City where they were able to successfully remove the spam can from his derriere. Why? I don't know. When he was done and. I mean, if anything, he's in jail. It's a blocker. Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking, but I wasn't going to say it.
01:12:50
Speaker
It was his own. Die. Die a little quieter, please, if you don't mind. Yeah, this is his own shield there. So he has this can of Spannum removed from his butthole. I'm assuming there were some stitches involved. And while being transported back to the hospital, Mosley overpowered the single guard assigned to him, took the guy's gun and escaped. OK, well, first of all, escaped.
01:13:16
Speaker
First of all, and that has to be a slow run because you know, he's waddling everywhere. Here's the deal. Here's the deal. I don't think in any situation that I would be so desperate to get out of a situation that I'm like, I'm going to shove. There was nothing more convenient. This spam can up my ass just so that I could like go to the doctor like you do.
01:13:42
Speaker
You got problems, bro. Who even goes there? Look, we put dogs down for less. A can of spam, Lisa. I wanted to have a can of spam to sit out in front of you right now and be like, he put that up his poop hole. Faith, I have one in the cabinet. I didn't know.
01:13:57
Speaker
I went and looked in your pantry to try to find a can of span. I'm just I'm sitting here and I'm literally baffled. I'm befuddled. OK, because I I don't. Ooh, like a can of spam. It would be easier to just take it in the rectum by a man. It literally anything shove that into your anus. How do you even get that in there?
01:14:23
Speaker
I know that one wouldn't fit
Mosley's Escape and Crime Spree
01:14:25
Speaker
in mine. Well, I would say there's a lot of lubricant, but they're not available? No. He's a weird guy. Yeah. Yeah, he's twisted. And you know what? Again, I'll say, we put dogs down for less. So, he's now escaped from prison. What do you think Mosley did? If you escaped from prison, what would you do?
01:14:47
Speaker
I would go find the best looking human that I could and then stop them and then do the exact same thing that I got arrested for. No, I would go like, you know, I was being sarcastic. I would go to a bunker. I would hide and be off the grid. Right. And if I was mostly I'd find I saw it as I'd find an ice pack to sit on for my poor, poor abused butt. But that's not what he did.
01:15:13
Speaker
He broke into someone's empty house that was vacant and decided he's gonna squat there. So after a few days of chilling out and probably sitting on an ice pack for his bum, he got bored. So what is an escaped criminal on the run hiding out in a stolen house with the source butthole and mankind due? He calls a maid service and asks for them to send a maid over to the house to clean it. Said maid comes.
01:15:42
Speaker
When the maid arrives, he threatens her with a gun, rapes her, and then tells her, if you tell anyone, I'm gonna kill your kids. So, suitably afraid and traumatized, she literally tells no one what happened. The DA actually brought charges against this maid for not calling the police.
01:16:06
Speaker
Do you want me to say that again? No, because we're we're looking at it yet. Twelve people watch what happened to Kitty and they were brought up on charges. No, I know. I know. So that's why I'm so disgusted with with that day and age. Like, yeah, there's there's a list of things just from this episode alone. We could talk about that day and stuff. Let's get the way that they do. Yeah. I don't agree with a lot of it. OK, but hell. Yeah. Yeah.
01:16:33
Speaker
So while the girl said nothing, didn't call the police, she was a crafty girl. And what she did was she found out the homeowners of the home and called and left them a really weird message.
01:16:45
Speaker
And it was a vacation house that sat empty, you know, half the year and they lived in half the year and they didn't really understand what she was saying. It didn't make any sense. No one's supposed to be there. So they called their daughter and son-in-law who lived in the same town and said, you just go check on the house. Something's happened. Something's weird. Just check it out. We received this weird random message. Couldn't find what the message said.
01:17:08
Speaker
So their daughter and son along the boy went with her. Yeah. Yeah. Drive to the house and mostly takes both of them hostage. The son in law has to watch as his wife is raped, then threatens to murder them both if they escape. Then he takes their car keys, gets their registration, takes their wallets, takes out the pictures of their kids and says, if you open your mouth, I'll find them and I'll kill them. And then he
01:17:38
Speaker
ties them up, gags them, gets in their car, and drives off free as a bird again. So that worked out well for him. I hate you and your story. Yeah. So that worked out well for him. So he breaks into another house. This one's not vacant though. There is two women, one of their daughters, and a baby who he takes hostage. Oh my god. One of the ladies being held hostage was smart.
01:18:07
Speaker
And I love her. So she tells Mosley, listen, I have to go across the street and pick up my kids from daycare. Because if I don't show up in the next five, 10 minutes, they're going to know something's wrong. They're going to call the police to come do a wellness check or something. Like, I've got to go get my kids. So on the one hand, putting your kids in the line of fire is not great. But on the other hand, you're getting out and getting help. And he says, that's fine. But if you say anything, and if you don't come back and kill them, then I'm going to find your kids and kill them.
01:18:35
Speaker
So she goes across the street. She doesn't say anything. She gets her kids together. She doesn't call the police because she said she wouldn't, but she never said she wouldn't call her husband. She calls her husband and she's like, listen, I got about five seconds. Don't react. Don't say anything. Shut up. Listen, I'm at home. I'm getting the kids from daycare. I'm walking back home. There's some man with a gun and he's got me and so and so and so and so and so and so and he's holding this hostage. He's going to rape and kill us. Get help.
01:19:06
Speaker
So and hangs up, takes her kids, goes back across the street. The husband, which kudos to him, doesn't freak out, doesn't go charging home. He picks up the phone and calls the FBI. No way. Oh, yeah. No, it gets better. I love whoever this is. So she's back at this house, the FBI agent in charge of this situation.
01:19:30
Speaker
Doesn't want to alert mostly to what's going on. He doesn't want him to know that they're on to him and injured. There's a baby and a child in there and two women, more children now because she brought her kids home. So he commandeers a diaper delivery truck that delivered diapers to houses.
01:19:47
Speaker
This is a house with children. The diaper delivery truck is not out of the ordinary there. So the head FBI agent gets all the other FBI agents, loads them up in the back of this diaper delivery truck and drives up to the house. And what do you know? Mosley opens the door and all the women and children are let out to safety unharmed.
01:20:10
Speaker
And this guy literally sits in the house with Mosley for an hour, listening, like, talking to him, listening to Ramble till Mosley eventually says, all right, I'll go back to prison now. No flush, no muss, no coconuts. So this little escape of his created about fifth, gave him two additional 15 year sentences to accompany his already life in prison.
01:20:34
Speaker
So he's back in Attica prison. You'd think by now, surely to goodness, we'd be done with this, right? Wrong. I would like to think so. This really is starting to sound like a Bundy thing. I know. I jump out of the window, the fucking library. Oh, sorry. It's OK. I'll edit that bad word out.
01:20:51
Speaker
I'm so back in Attica prison it's nineteen seventy one. And the Attica riots occur where the prisoners wanted better living conditions he was part of the rioters the group of prisoners that took control of the jail for four solid days taking forty two.
01:21:10
Speaker
prison employees hostage, ending with the prisoners demands all being granted and 43 people dying, 10 prison employees, 33 inmates. He was part of the core group of rioters. He was part of that.
Mosley's Imprisonment and Legacy
01:21:25
Speaker
How do you go to prison and ask for better living conditions? I don't know. Well, no, I guess I'm kind of being an ass because
01:21:39
Speaker
if you're sent to like jail over weed. Well, I mean, today, today, all the stuff that we complain that prisoners get three square meals a day. Room and board. That's why I still think that we need to section them out. But that's why this is this riot is part of what brought those changes to the prison system where they got better living conditions and more of everything is because of this right. This piece of garbage was involved with. Yeah. And something in his head after being part of this rebellion just snapped.
01:22:10
Speaker
And so he enrolled in, I mean, it was, it was, you know, 71. So there's not an online college, but whatever kind of colleges they could do in prison. He enrolled and in 1977 earned his bachelor's degree in sociology. This is the part that just blows my mind, right? This is the thing that I think is crazy and it's not talked about and it's not pertinent to Kitty's story. I understand that, but it absolutely
01:22:39
Speaker
Mosley goes through college, right, and gets his degree studying sociology and psychology. So the textbook that he studied from and learned from and read about and was tested on had the Kitty Genovese story in it. He got his education on the murder he freaking committed.
01:23:03
Speaker
He actually wrote this huge op-ed for the New York Times, telling his side of the story, basically trying to get compassion from police so that they could, you know, he could get parole, which thankfully did not happen. Actually, March 28, 2016,
01:23:22
Speaker
at 81 years of age after spending 52 years in prison and is one of the still longest serving prisoners in the New York history of penitentiary. He did die in prison. The only good thing that came from this entire was the 911 system and neighborhood watches and all that came. But he got a degree studying his own case that he perpetrated in prison.
01:23:50
Speaker
Like I feel like that is the ultimate slap in the face to her family who lost her and he got to get a degree and studied what he did to her to get that degree.
01:24:02
Speaker
Like I understand rehabilitation. You can't you can't relate that monster. I want you to listen to me. I understand rehabilitation in some factors. Yeah. OK, which is why I think that the prison system needs to be segregated. Yeah. When you're looking at people with drug addictions or, you know, alcoholism in a.
01:24:26
Speaker
were like out of their minds, whatever. Yeah, it's totally different than somebody who methodically plans out a crime. And and follows through with it. I'm OK with them getting education, but I don't think he should have been able to get a degree where he studied what he did. Yeah, that blows my mind.
01:24:50
Speaker
Like I said, there should be one in the middle of Arizona in the desert where they just sit in heat and suffer. And it needs to be pedophiles and serial killers and rapists. They can deal with each other. Yeah. Yeah. That's the end of my story. You're the worst. Was that not like all everyone talks about the case is just what happened to her in vague details and that all these people heard it and witnessed it and no one helped.
01:25:19
Speaker
There's so much more. He was arrested based off stealing a TV in the neighborhoods banding together.
01:25:27
Speaker
Like it, the whole thing and the fact totally different than the night stalker who banded together because they like actually wanted him dead. Yeah. But it blows my mind. Like the whole thing is crazy. Everything that happens crazy for Alvin. All of it's insane. But the final kicker of him getting his degree, studying his own case is if I was her family and I found out that he got his degree and had to study what he
Ethics of Prison Rehabilitation
01:25:53
Speaker
I would banana sandwiches, like lose my mind. I don't know if you ever saw the movie. I did not. OK, I think I did a long time ago. There was a scene in I think it was because Frankie helped me if I'm wrong. But Joe Pesci threatened a guy and he was like, I will beat you so severely that you go into a coma. And right around the time you get out of the coma, I'll be getting out of prison and I'm going to do it again.
01:26:24
Speaker
Is that pretty correct, Frankie? Thank you. Thank you. I feel like that should be his fate. Like, I feel like I'll sit here and I'll do my sentence. Yeah. Freaking easy peasy, bro. Let's. And then you let me out. This is one of those times. Do it again. The the people should have a petition to release him into their care.
01:26:44
Speaker
Barbara's parents who were asleep while he murdered her. Stupid, stupid government just gets in the way. Yeah. But you know, take care of our own. Yeah. We know how to handle it. Yeah, vigilante justice shouldn't be that frowned upon. It worked in Gotham. You said vigilante justice.
01:27:04
Speaker
Well, I'm just saying Batman helps Gotham. I could help, you know, my neighborhood. It's like boondocks say it's. Yes. You know, I actually there's this podcast I love and they made fun of that movie and talk about how horrible it was. And it was, you know, way too far to rescue Bart. I'm like, OK, I can't listen to you anymore because I love that movie. So screw you. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's I feel like it's certain people's like.
01:27:30
Speaker
One of the guys, Italian and from New York, he just deserved. He didn't know. They never freaking do. And quite frankly, I think Kitty's neighbors, how many of these bastards deserve some kind of shame? Yeah. Well, I mean, how many of those bastards just run prison? A lot of them. And they're like, oh, we could learn something from him. I know what insanity looks like. Yeah.
01:27:54
Speaker
Although I think for him, like having to rot in prison for over 50 put the hatchet down. Put the hatchet down. I think him having to rot in prison for over 50 years is kind of a punishment for him.
01:28:07
Speaker
Well, no, I would totally agree with that if he didn't get three square meals, but he didn't then he did after the riots that he was involved with. But at first it wasn't, you know, it wasn't that good of like, again, I'll say there are peers and steps of felonies.
Adequacy of Punishment Debate
01:28:27
Speaker
OK. Yeah. Like when you're like on the A step, walk over here while you talk, you smoke some weed.
01:28:35
Speaker
Yeah, you have a dime bag, so you get a gel for 20 years. Not important. Right. OK, but I feel like when you're on the higher tier steps, like you deserve something. My husband's proud of me because I know what a dime bag is. And if you I've just seen that on TV, I have no idea how much weed that is in government. If you need volunteers to help you like throw stones or I'll just beat someone on. I mean, I volunteers tribute. Yeah.
01:29:01
Speaker
Here's the deal. When Jesus said, don't be the one to cast the first stone. He wasn't talking about people like this. He was talking about a woman who committed adultery and a man who was just as guilty. But he also said it's better to tie a millstone around your neck and jump into the ocean than to lead one of these astray. So I stand by my, there's a special place in hell for pedophiles.
01:29:27
Speaker
Agreed, except I'm covered by the blood. Look, look. And Jesus loves me and he forgives me. Yeah. So this is. Yeah, look, look. I'm trying to show you things and cut your show. I'm a little short here. So this is this is modern day pictures, but this is where she was first attacked. All these apartments, all these apartments.
01:29:50
Speaker
Second story, these are all the businesses right there. Our first podcast. Yeah. No one heard a thing. Yeah. Oh, no, I thought about that. It's amazing. And then this is Kitty. Cute little thing. Doesn't she look like Elizabeth Taylor a little?
01:30:06
Speaker
But I've also got pictures of all the articles where one of them is literally like the title is court erupts in joy as mostly kiddies, kiddies, murderers sentenced to death. I'll post the pictures of everything. Got it. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. No. Oh, here's the last picture I'll show you, which I'll post all these. There's the hunting knife. He mother. Yeah.
01:30:31
Speaker
So while I look at that, while this is a very well known story, a lot of this is left out and I wanted to share it all because I felt like it was all important.
Reflection on Human Decency and Intervention
01:30:39
Speaker
I would agree. And it goes with our theme of just be a decent human. Yeah. Like just be a decent human. Yeah. You don't have to directly get involved. Well, now 911 then call the police. But just I mean, you know what I mean?
01:30:53
Speaker
literally start throwing crap out your window. Exactly, dude. Like anything that's going to make a big noise, that's going to freak somebody out. You're on the second floor. He's not Spider-Man. It's like deer in the headlights. You're doing something wrong. People already have that innate instinct of this is not right. Right. Yeah. And then you bust them or you let them know you're there. Mm hmm.
01:31:18
Speaker
So that's my story. I'm done. Yeah, you're a whore. What didn't I know? Well, it was a good story story. You're not. It's a can of spam, Lisa. I bet he used the meat of many uses. I lost my mind. I. Oh, my gosh. That was not guys. That is not what their marketing rep had in mind. No. But I hope it hurt.
01:31:47
Speaker
And I don't think there's a way that that could have not hurt. I'm sure it did. But if you're that willing, I can't. Well, there's a little bit away. Oh, my God. Yeah, I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. So y'all have a great night. Anyways, y'all have a great night and we'll talk to you soon. I'll never eat spam again. Bye. Bye.