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SURVIVOR - Krystal Surles and the Take Down of Tommy Lynn Sells
410 Plays1 year ago
HI! Thank you so much for hanging in with Lisa & I for ONE YEAR! For such a special occasion, I wanted to share a story that would blow your minds, and I think I have.
Krystal Surles is a 10 year old little girl, who has more courage than many people I know, and was made for the saying - "Tho She Be Small, She is FIERCE!" Listen up while I tell you how a little girl thought of everyone around her and ultimately took down a serial killer no one knew about - Tommy Lynn Sells.
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Transcript
Friendly Banter & True Crime Anecdotes
00:00:05
Speaker
Well, hello, all of our lovely true crime listeners. Hi. How are you doing? Oh, you weren't asking me. Sorry. I mean, I don't want you to go into a whole nother reprisal of all your life issues.
00:00:21
Speaker
I love you too. I'm just kidding. I was trying to think of something really stupid to be like, you know, like what color socks you need to wear today. But then I couldn't think of anything because I was just staring at you watching that one hair blow in the wind. Why are we talking about socks? I wasn't. That was the point. I was trying to be like stupid. Like those were your life issues, your big life issues. Oh, yes. Yes. Actually, do you want to hear something
Podcast Anniversary Celebration
00:00:42
Speaker
funny? I always want to hear something funny. I had a what would you do moment.
00:00:47
Speaker
What would I do? It just in general, what would anyone do? Oh, it should be what I do. So you know how we always talk about it in our true crime podcast, like people that just check in on people when something isn't is weird. Yeah. All right. So I have a friend from work who has gone to Cancun for the week all over Facebook yesterday or the day before. I don't remember. It was four people murdered. Oh, snap. In a Cancun hotel. Blah, blah, blah. Right. Immediately texted.
00:01:15
Speaker
My friend. I didn't hear from her the entire day. So you knew she was dead and dead. She was in body bag. That's how it felt. And then she finally texted me that night and she is like, hey, everything's good. Is everything okay with you? And I guess in all like caps and smiley faces, I was like, you're not dead. You're alive.
00:01:36
Speaker
Yep. And she's just question marks all across the page. Don't worry about it. I don't want to ruin the rest of your vacation now that I know you're not. All right. Well, I'm gonna tell you tonight is a special episode. Um, I have thought really long about
00:01:58
Speaker
what this needed to be. I've changed my story a hundred times. It had to be absolutely perfect. And do you know, Lisa, why it had to be absolutely perfect? Because you're anal retentive. That's true. And I'm a control freak, but... And you're OCD. Or CDO, because things need to be in alphabetical order.
Choosing the Perfect Story
00:02:17
Speaker
Happy one year anniversary, though! Our podcast!
00:02:23
Speaker
Are you kidding me? Babe, you got the kids out here? The day the episode airs, it'll be one year on the air for Twisted Tales. All right. Kay, what do you have to say about Twisted Tales? I don't know what it is. They're not allowed to listen. We're not that bad of parents. It looks really fun.
00:02:43
Speaker
I like it. It looks really fun. They're just excited they get cupcakes. The kids that try to eat, try to eavesdrop every time we tell a story. Oh my God, Faith, that was killer, dude. I didn't even know. I meant to record that whole thing and I forgot. I was so excited and I'm giving Caleb eyes over there because that's why we went outside. Oh, well done. You're a genius.
00:03:11
Speaker
Okay, that was hilarious. Sorry. I realized it was our one year anniversary and I knew Lisa would not know because she doesn't keep track of all the you know No, Facebook is the only reason I know people's birthday and we didn't stop that we didn't start our Facebook group to like halfway through So I'm like, there's no way she knows and I've been planning this and then she had a huge conversation starter and I was like, shut up I wanted anyway
00:03:36
Speaker
So we're done. It was a long, long intro, but you know, hey, you guys have listened to much longer banter about much less. So if you listen to the show, you care that we've been on here for a year. It's exciting for us, all right? Just celebrate with us. Yep. So in saying that, I have literally gone through a hundred stories. I have started physically typing out multiple stories because this story has to be special. It's one year.
00:04:03
Speaker
Um, and, uh, the cockamamie stuff that I come up with or, you know, I've got some cockamamie weird stuff, but this story I heard forever ago before you started a podcast. Okay. And I had it on my TBD list. Right. And so after going through all these other stories that I've heard about recently or looked at, I say, well, I'm going to go through my list. And I saw this one and I was like, you know what?
00:04:28
Speaker
That's it. And then as I'm typing it out and listening to details and watch interviews, I'm like, oh, that's it. So without further ado, let's go.
Introducing Crystal's Courage
00:04:40
Speaker
So and I'm going to give you some some really good like there's a lot of on this story. I mean, it's in my well known, but, you know.
00:04:51
Speaker
So there is a really good, I think it was a TV show or a news article at least that CBS did. And sorry, I think it was originally an article on this story. And I read the article and I get a lot of the direct quotes that I'm going to tell you from this article, but I think they actually did like a little, a little like special on CBS too. But the CBS article and I'll link everything into our bios is called Crystal's Courage.
00:05:22
Speaker
And so at the beginning of every show, after we're done with the random bambling. Bambling? That's not a word. No, it is now. Let's go. It is. Yeah. We always try to do something to kickstart the episode, like ask a question. Well, that's what I do. Yeah. I try to throw you off. You just drone on for pages and pages of text. Like I'm doing. Gotcha. But.
00:05:48
Speaker
I always try to leave a little twist or something in the story. Yeah, something that's going to piss me off immediately. This time, I decided to look up a definition. Me looking up a definition to a word is not that uncommon because, as you all know, we're not that smart, Lisa and I. Words are difficult. Life is difficult. Indeed.
00:06:09
Speaker
Even though your girl struggles, this is a word that everyone knows the definition to, right? So I decided to look up and I literally googled definition of courage. Definition of courage. Definition of courage. Okay. Because the article that I got a lot of the, like I said, a lot of the quotes is called Crystal's Courage. So I want to Google it. And the very first definition and description so fits what I'm about to tell you.
00:06:34
Speaker
It's unreal. And maybe it's because of all the Googling I did on this topic. Maybe it's because of that and, you know, AI smart, but I have a screenshot to prove this. I'll link that too in all of our socials, but it says courage. The definition is the ability to do something that frightens one. And the example is she called on all her courage to face the ordeal.
The Surlys' Family Move to Texas
00:06:57
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:07:00
Speaker
Without further ado on our one-year anniversary, this all felt very serendipitous to me and nailed it in that I'm on the right path. Right. I need to pause this because you're about to yell at a dog, huh? Well, let's get into it. So we are going to start December 1999. The Surlys family were in the- I want so bad to say that's recent.
00:07:24
Speaker
I know, don't you, don't you? But then I'm like, God almighty, that's been a minute. It's a whole drinking person. December 1999, the Surlys family are in the process of moving from Kansas to Texas. And since this is like the end of a school term in December, we know the parents made the decision to send their two daughters, Crystal and Marquis,
00:07:52
Speaker
ahead of them, the mom decided to, the dad was never really mentioned and I didn't do a lot of research on him because I was too excited about other things, so live with it. The mom decided to send her two daughters, Crystal Marquis, ahead to Texas to live and finish out school with family friends.
Crystal's Bond with Katie
00:08:12
Speaker
So they moved to Del Rio, Texas. And honestly, let's be honest, while it lets the kids stay current in school, if you've ever moved
00:08:22
Speaker
especially with a child, your life is easier without them there. You gotta box, you gotta sign, you gotta move, you gotta move boxes, and having small children around, that's just not gonna happen. So. It's complicated. Right. So the two girls go to stay with the Harris family. And this isn't like, you know, this isn't like we knew each other once. This is like the honorary aunt and uncle type of situation. Like we know these people, they are long time family friends.
00:08:52
Speaker
So the two girls move into the house for a few weeks. Crystal is 10 years old at the time and her sister, Marky seven, and I may be mispronouncing her name. It's M A R Q U E. Marky. That's what I'm assuming. That sounds about right. So she's seven and they fit right in with the four Harris children, Sean, Justin, Lori, and Katie.
00:09:16
Speaker
The Harris's house was in the middle of nowhere, Texas. Like, there's not a lot of neighbors. The neighbors that are there are not close at all. And it's a desert, but not like a regular desert, like a Texas desert. So just so you get a feel for this area, Del Rio is a small settlement right south of the Rio Grande, which is present day Mexico. And it's literally on the end of Texas border.
00:09:44
Speaker
And so again, it literally is desert. It's hot. There's no one around in the middle of nowhere. So Crystal is already really good friends with the Harris's oldest daughter who's 13 year old Katie. And so for them, this is, I am channeling my inner 13 year old self. I get to go live with my best friend.
00:10:05
Speaker
We're good. It's an endless sleepover party. Yeah. And quite frankly, it's 1999. Blockbuster is still a thing. I get it. AOL is on discs where you go. That was good. I know, wasn't it? This is what got me so hyped this morning. Reminiscing on 1999 and I got. Although I got way over. We all had to get have we had a lot of anxiety also in 99.
00:10:32
Speaker
Y2K, but there's no Facebook and all this other stuff to divert like kids were kids then and So my space was a thing then. I don't know. I don't remember. I don't either I Was barely in high school. I wasn't even in high school when this happened. So I was fixing to be in high school Yeah, cuz I graduated no three so yeah
00:10:56
Speaker
So anyway, they're having legit the best of times. They're sharing a, they're sharing Katie's bedroom. They've got bunk beds. Katie's on the bottom. Crystal's on top there. It's a party. So December 31st, the two girls stay up late. It's new year's they're laughing and then talking and they're more than likely trying to stay up to the new year, but they're 10 and 13. So on the one hand, I want to say they probably couldn't make it below their hand.
00:11:24
Speaker
I'm the one that can't make it that late at this point and they probably have the energy, so whatever. But they're more than likely just to set the scene. They're in the bunk beds again.
00:11:34
Speaker
Katie's on the bottom, 13. Crystal's on the top 10. And they're doing that thing. I have to, in my mind's eye, they're doing that thing that girls do at sleepovers. At least I know for a fact I used to do, where you're talking, talking, talking, talking, talking. And then one says something and there's a little bit of a pause and the other says something. There's pause and the pauses get longer and longer until one just doesn't answer. And the other one either doesn't know cause they passed out in the pause too, or they passed out shortly after they realized their friends asleep.
00:12:05
Speaker
So, serious feels hyped me up all day thinking about this time in my life. You're crazy. Apparently. All of a sudden, Crystal is woken up because she hears a scream.
A Horrific Night Unfolds
00:12:18
Speaker
She was in a dead sleep. So she's not really sure. Did she hear a scream? Was it a dream? So she doesn't like jump out of bed. She doesn't raise up. This little girl literally just kind of peers over the side of the top of the bunk bed. And she sees a man standing in the bedroom. Kidding me. So she saw this man.
00:12:46
Speaker
at the bottom of the bunk beds. I pressed way too down, but he has, this is, and this is from her account. She sees this man in the dark bedroom and he's got curly dark hair. Um, I've lost my spot. I will have to edit this out. That's all good. Cause I hit the down and then I have to go back up. There we go. So all of the sudden,
00:13:16
Speaker
So, sorry, I lost my spotkin. She saw this man at the bottom of the bunk bed. He had curly dark hair, a long bushy dark beard, and while it was dark in the room,
00:13:34
Speaker
Crystal described him as having dark eyes and just being overall scary, which understatement of the fracking year. You're 10 years old and you wake up and there's a strange man. Well, not even that. You weren't just awoken by a strange man. You were awakened. You were awoken by screaming. A scream. So again,
00:13:54
Speaker
She's just peering over the edge of the bed and this is what she sees. All of a sudden, the man grabs Katie, pulls her off the bed and in front of him in a kneeling position. Right in front of him. And Crystal's watching. She doesn't know what's going to happen. She's 10. And he slits her throat.
00:14:17
Speaker
What? I feel like I know this story. You might. So, little Crystal is watching from the top of the bed, frozen in fear. Probably, maybe not intentionally, but staying as small and still as she can and just mere feet away from her. She just watched her best friend get killed by her throat being cut open by a scary man. Right. Katie falls to the ground while Crystal watches.
00:14:42
Speaker
and says the man starts to walk out of the room, not noticing this small scared little figure on the top bunk, frozen watching him. You've probably been what, stalking them or something? Well, that's, here's my personal theory. And it says my personal theory and it's only my theory. If there's a bunk bed, nine out of 10 times, that means their sibling sharing a room.
00:15:06
Speaker
So there's nine out of 10 times gonna be someone on that top bunk. So why would he not check the top bunk for another victim? He literally, she said he just turned and walked out. So it has to be somebody that knows the family.
00:15:23
Speaker
Knows who room and knows whose room that is type of deal. Yeah, and That are because it was a huge oversight I feel like this is like in the how to be a murdering scumbag for dummies book The very top thing in a chapter that's you know, choosing random family to go a murdering chapter It's check the top bunk, right? So you have to know there's no one up there if you're not gonna look Yeah, but anyway the man
00:15:53
Speaker
goes to walk out of the room. He takes a look around the room and as he's literally walking out the door, turns back and locks eyes with Crystal. No way. So he walks back into the room and Crystal is scooting back in the bunk bed like to get back against the wall. That's her only recourse. Right. And she's scooting all the way back in the back of the bunk bed and he reaches up over, takes the knife and slits her throat.
00:16:22
Speaker
leaving little Crystal to bleed out in the bed while Katie continues to bleed out on the floor. The man turns off the little light he turned on, walks out of the room and softly closes the door behind him. After the door closes, Crystal lies in the top bunk while her neck is legitimately cut, bleeding, and finds the courage to start slowly crawling back to the edge of the bed, quietly crawl to the bottom bunk,
00:16:52
Speaker
and then literally crawl along the floor to her friend Katie's body. No way. And she said, and this is Crystal's words, that Katie was gaggling and making a gurgling sound because she's still alive. Her throat is just cut. And she said that she started, and imagine, this is a 10 year old little girl whose throat is cut, sits there beside her friend and starts rubbing her back.
00:17:21
Speaker
and goes to tell her everything's gonna be okay. But as she goes to say that, no sound will leave her mouth because what she doesn't know medically is he severed her vocal cords. So Crystal sits there, rubbing Katie's back in an attempt to sue their friend and continues to do so until Katie no longer made sounds. Oh my God.
00:17:48
Speaker
At this point, Katie's body lay there on the floor with no life left inside. And Crystal said, and she will say it to this day in interviews, it was like she could hear Katie audibly, like her spirit stayed there with her. And her friend told her, go get out of here, go, run, get up, you gotta go. And so she did.
00:18:11
Speaker
So it's pitch black outside the house, smell the night. It's also pitch black inside the house because it's the smell of the night. Crystal has no idea if this man is still in the house, if he is where he'd be. She has no idea if she and Katie are the only ones that have been victims to the cruel abuse of this man, or are the rest of the Harris family all dead? Also, what about her little sister?
00:18:41
Speaker
Where is she? Is she peacefully sleeping? Or has she also been taken like her friend just was? Bottom line, she doesn't know. She has no, nothing. And that has to be, even for me as a little as a mid 30s. I was just gonna say, that's such like an adult emotion too. Like, kids by nature are fearful.
00:19:02
Speaker
And kids by nature always want to go for help. That's what I'm saying. They're either going to run for help or cower. And again, that's like people talk about fight or flight. Like, that's it. Yeah. But she just watched the worst of humanity happen. Yeah. How do you? Should have been terrified. Oh, God, I can't imagine. So every moment that passes, she's legitimately getting closer to joining Katie. If she chooses to stay,
00:19:32
Speaker
she will more than likely die. Like just you and I talking, she can't have these thoughts. Or she can listen to her friend who she to this day swears is in the room telling her go, run, go and attempt to flee.
00:19:46
Speaker
So Crystal slowly starts to move to the bedroom door, then starts to crawl down the hallway, all the while leaving a path of her blood behind her. It is a true murder scene, what you think of.
00:20:05
Speaker
So it's, it's pouring from her neck, blood's pouring from her neck. It's stating the carpet. She finally makes it to the front door. She opens the front door, climbs herself up to a standing position and looks out and she can see a small light in the distance. And that small light was the closest neighbor, which was a quarter of a mile away, but it's 1990.
00:20:31
Speaker
There's no like, who's she gonna call? She's gonna landline 911. She's 10. She's got her friends saying run. You don't know where he's at in the house. That's true. All right. Nevermind. I was gonna say train him up, but you're right. She's making a steady escape. So she's legitimately looking at this teeny tiny little light.
Crystal's Brave Escape & Help
00:20:51
Speaker
And for a 10 year old who just watched my, I just watched my friend be murdered. You're bleeding to death. I'm bleeding to death. It is dark. We're in the middle of nowhere.
00:21:01
Speaker
Texas desert, there's no street lights. There's one light a quarter of a mile. It might as well have been the moon and back. I'd be terrified. There's no way even today I'd make that trip. Like, nuh-uh, nuh-uh. So looking at that light, Crystal said she hears Katie's voice once again, urging her, go, run to the light. Go, go, go, go, go, go.
00:21:27
Speaker
So Crystal starts staggering to that light, walking as fast as her body will allow her to. And they're so young, they don't know to wrap something around it. Nope. They try to stop the bleeding. She's still bleeding. Her throat's still cut. Medically speaking, in case you're thinking, well, how's her throat cut? And she's still like, and he severed the vocal. So medically speaking, there was no artery hit. Yeah. But her trachea was severed in half and her vocal cords were as well. It was a deep cut. Yeah.
00:21:56
Speaker
So finally, after what I have to assume seemed like a eternity, Crystal reaches the house and just starts banging on the door. It's two o'clock in the morning. Yeah. These people are asleep. So the man is yelling, who is it? What's going on? She can't say anything. And that's what she said. I can't make any noise. So I just keep banging as hard as I could.
00:22:24
Speaker
And so the guy runs to the door, throws it open and finds this little tiny 10 year old barefoot cut throat blood all over her like that. It is a children of the corn. I'm sure it's somewhere.
00:22:41
Speaker
getting up in the middle of the night and being like, like you opened the door to that. That's like, bro. And here's the deal. Instinct takes over at that point. Yeah. He's not thinking what's going on. He's like, uh, stop the blood. Right. I don't even know that. So I think my first thought would be is I've got a family in bed behind me. What the heck?
00:23:07
Speaker
Yeah, well, no, I just asked the kid, bring him inside, knock the door, grab my gun. Exactly. He snatches the kid, brings her aside, calls 911 right away. Crystal is sitting there, finally safe. I would think you fall into shock at that very moment, like you're just relieved, you're sobbing. This little girl starts looking around, finds a pen and paper and starts writing. She writes three things. And I've got a screenshot of these three things. I'm telling you, this story is going to get to me multiple times.
00:23:36
Speaker
The Harris's are hurt. My neck needs help. Will I live? Those are hurt. The first thing, the Harris's are hurt. Not me, the Harris's. So first responders show up and take Crystal to the local hospital, but realize very quickly her injuries are way too extensive for that hospital to be able to handle. So they need to life flight her to San Antonio. So I want you to imagine this for me.
00:24:07
Speaker
Your sleep, you have been boxing crap up all day. You're exhausted. Your phone, it is New Year's Eve night, Y2K. Your phone starts ringing at 3 a.m.
00:24:18
Speaker
And you wake up and it's a landline. I don't really remember if clarity is a thing or not, but it's probably some punk kid making prank calls in your area. And you answer the phone and there's a voice on the other side. We need your permission to life flight your daughter, Katie, to San Antonio. Her throat has been cut. Do you give your permission? That's what you hear.
00:24:41
Speaker
It would have been an immediate yes. And then I need to find a flight to San Antonio. Well, not only that, you're in Kansas. This is all in Texas. They didn't say anything about her seven-year-old daughter. They didn't know anything about her seven-year-old daughter. Wow. So 78,840 miles away. Your first baby's being airlifted. And all you know is she's been attacked and her throat's been cut open.
00:25:11
Speaker
Like as a mom? I don't lost my shit. And you don't know if the other one's even a lot like... What? So Pam does exactly what you said finishes that call.
00:25:25
Speaker
Of course, consent, fly her, fix her, keep her alive, and immediately finds a flight. My butt gotta get there now. I need to figure out what's happening. And she's gotta get a flight, but this is 1990s. You can't just look up your Delta app and get a flight. She gets there, and as she is trying to rush as quickly as she can to get to Texas where her babies are, hospital staff are rushing to get Katie into surgery to try to keep this little girl alive.
00:25:53
Speaker
It's amazing at this point that she still is. It honestly, miracle. So we're going to jump a little bit in the story. That's cool. Crystal makes it through surgery. She, um, surgery's over. She wakes up and she's conscious finally, and she's laying in the ICU and she looks at her mom and
Identifying the Attacker
00:26:20
Speaker
A lot of a lot of the sources say she says it. I want a few and some say she writes it. I want to say she writes it at this point because her vocal cords obviously haven't had time to heal. But she says call the police. I want to tell them what this man looks like so they can get him. They've got to get him. First words out of this little 10 year old's eyes. First freaking words. Damn, dude. Like her mom has a 10 year old little warrior princess. I was just going to say.
00:26:45
Speaker
How in the world how do you even function like dude not I'm in pain. You're 10 years old and you have balls of steel. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. This is bad level. So the mom literally has to look at her 10 year old little warrior princess and say we have to wait until the police get here.
00:27:07
Speaker
are the detectives or whoever, so just calm down. You'll get to see someone and tell it. The moms haven't basically put her off like we can't talk about this right now. So the police get there and get a sketch artist to come meet with Crystal, who gives a shockingly detailed description of the man. Like I say shockingly because number one, she's 10. It was dark. Mainly, eyewitness descriptions are crap. I've seen some sketches that come from adult details.
00:27:37
Speaker
And it doesn't even look like a real person. But I saw a meme once. It was the the Night Stalker. Yeah. His thing. And then it's like, gee, I wonder why he was never caught. Yeah. I've got a side by side of this little girl's sketch and a picture of him. Yeah. It's ridiculous. But I almost wonder if it's because she is 10.
00:28:01
Speaker
Yes. So she's got a child's mind. It's not business driven. It's not spreadsheets and schedules. She's creative and childlike, obviously. And again, here's the deal. And you're talking about emotion. OK. She sat there frozen and focused. Yeah. She didn't know what to do. Yeah. She stared at this man for however long she stared at this man. For a year in her mind, I'm sure. She approached her with a light.
00:28:32
Speaker
She looked him in the eye. Oh, without blinking. Yeah. So the police used this sketch to compile us the suspects and bring back a photo lineup pretty quickly for little Crystal to look through.
00:28:45
Speaker
And as she goes through the photos, one of the Texas Rangers there is watching her flip through photos. Was it Walker? I wish it was. If it was Walker, this man never would have been on the loose. I know. Well, he would at least have gotten a big kick to the face. I love Walker Texas Rangers and own all seasons on DVD.
00:29:03
Speaker
Okay, all right, we need to stop now. We're gonna lose people. Oh, we're gonna lose me. Everyone loves Chuck Norris. Everyone. That is one thing America can unite on. Chuck Norris is the ultimate. I like this. I like this. 2024. So, the Texas Ranger is watching her as she flips through one by one, carefully looking at each photo, and she's flipping, and all of a sudden she stops at a photo, looking at it for like a split second, and turns the page back to the previous one she just passed.
00:29:34
Speaker
points to the man, that's him. And she identifies Tommy Lynn Sells as literal the monster of her nightmares. Now this man is one that the police, they know him, no question. He's known among this department. He's been brought to this precinct previously because of an accusation brought against him for sexual assault. So they got his whole file.
00:30:01
Speaker
So the police know exactly where Tommy lives. They go to that address. And when the police arrive at the house, there's no shootout. There's no crazy. Tommy opens the door. And what do you think the first thing he says to these officers is? I'm guilty. Usually.
00:30:18
Speaker
it's that usually it's I didn't do it I don't know she's lying something he opens the thing and says assuming he's a dumbass he opens his he opens the door looks at him said I'm glad I finally got caught I was tired of doing this okay interesting okay so so definitely not a one-off like I thought finally tired of doing this so
00:30:45
Speaker
He's arrested, obviously, after that kind of statement. Yeah. It's not even an excited utterance. It's a. Thank God you're here. Yeah. So he's he's brought in on charges of murder. Police find the murder weapon in a field near his house because he told them exactly where to go to get the murder weapon. OK. And let me describe this murder weapon for you. I have a photo.
00:31:13
Speaker
and I will post it, it is an 11 inch butcher knife. You know a butcher like a big thick, right? Yeah, like what you would like just whack a giant piece of steak. Yeah, like one of them big all thick, yeah. This knife has been used so many times and sharpened so many times and it is now a thin curved blade. So Tommy was a very willing, whatever you call them, prisoner? Participants, I don't know, yeah.
00:31:43
Speaker
He is even so cooperative and there are legitimate videos of this you can watch online. He walks police through the crime scene explaining his thought process and what happened every step of the way. There's video of it. And he's literally like, it'd be like me talking about like, I was walking down the street and I saw this really cute house and I love the plant that, like that's how he was talking about it. So he's walking the police through the crime scene. On this video you can watch, he said I was walking,
00:32:13
Speaker
through the neighborhood. It's about 10 p.m. I was about it was close to midnight is what he said. Sorry. I was given an example that I decided to use this word. It's fun. I noticed a window open. So I climbed through the window. I walked through the home searching for who my victim would be. However, police didn't believe this statement was 100 percent accurate because police believe he specifically targeted Katie because it turns out Tommy was acquaintances with the Harris's.
00:32:43
Speaker
Now they, they weren't like barbecue friends, best friends. It's like the type of person that you see like around town on a consistent basis that they'd be like, Oh, Hey Lisa, how's the kid still in football? Okay. Talk to you later. Like that kind of like, they know you, but they don't know, you know, you type of Jill, you know.
00:33:04
Speaker
So police believe that he knew enough about the family to specifically caught, sought out Katie as his victim for this night. He knew where her room was located. He knew the kind of the layout, which is why he knew she had a bedroom to herself and not to check the top bunk. So they also believed before they met with him that this was a sexually motivated crime, which was true.
00:33:31
Speaker
Tommy told them that he sexually assaulted this little girl prior to killing. Now, that was not at the beginning of the story. And quite frankly, when I heard this story, it was kind of laid out like how I started it in in crystals renditions of what happened.
00:33:47
Speaker
But Crystal started with she heard a scream and woke up. So whatever happened prior to that screen, Crystal had no knowledge of to talk about. Right. And give a detailed accounting for it. Right. Thank God, because she has enough mental images of that night. She didn't need that as well. No. So sorry, I'm sorry. You're fine. I'm sorry. Oh, trust me. So Tommy admitted without any prompting to the cops that he raped her.
00:34:17
Speaker
And then she screamed and he killed her. Um, so this is literally, I think in the history of our one year of podcasting, the most open and shut case we've ever done. Right. I mean, no, because I feel like it hasn't been long enough. There's no, it's been a while. Um, there's no big like hunt. There's no big tip that came in. Like there's no nothing.
00:34:43
Speaker
They found out the little girl gave an accurate description, accurately pointed to him, and he was like, yeah, I did it here. Let me show you what happened, walk you through the house. My question is, I'm tired of doing this. How many people has he done it to? There's the question. So Tommy Lynn Sellers is charged with the murder of Katie Harris and sent to prison to await trial.
Revealing the Criminal's Pattern
00:35:05
Speaker
So he is in the car on the way to prison.
00:35:10
Speaker
And Tommy looks at one of the Texas Rangers in the car and says, well, yes, you want to know about all the other murders now, right? Police have no idea what these quote unquote other murders he's referring to. And honest to goodness, they have no idea what they're about to be in for. Why could he not have been in the backseat of the car
00:35:37
Speaker
with my Dexter guy. That guy was a dick. And the cops walked away. And he slit his throat in the cop car. No, he didn't slit his throat, but he beat him to death. Let's be real. He killed him. He was dead. Good riddance. We like that. We don't hate that. So the Texas Rangers are literally like, what? Yeah, we want to know about the other mergers?
00:36:07
Speaker
So they bring him into an interrogation room. And over multiple long hour sessions, over multiple months, Tommy recounts multiple murders spanning multiple states for over a 14 year period of time. They are officially staring at a serial killer brought down by a 10 year old little girl who just wouldn't die.
00:36:40
Speaker
So, who is Tommy Lynn Sellers? I always wanna say Sellers, it sells. Tommy Lynn sells, because he's not like a dumber or a Bundy that has talked about a lot. Honestly, he's not. So, I'm gonna give you a little back date on him. He was born in California on June 8, 1964, as one of five children to a single mom. It's assumed his biological father, Joe Lovins, not 100% sure, but this guy, either way, was never in his life, but died when he was 11.
00:37:10
Speaker
He actually had a twin sister when he was born named Tammy Jean. And when the two twins were around 18 months old, they both contracted meningitis. And unfortunately, Tammy Jean passed away and Tommy Lynn lived. And, you know, I say unfortunately because that's where it's at. So shortly after Tommy, um,
00:37:34
Speaker
recovers from meningitis, his mother sends him to live with his aunt Bonnie Walpole in Missouri. And honestly, there's not like a great detail of this portion of his life. But I really think from 18 months, two years to five, he had a really good life with his aunt. And around age five, his aunt Bonnie finally starts to make some moves to formally adopt Tommy.
00:38:03
Speaker
However, Tommy's mother finds out about this plan and says, nope, give him back. So let's say based off that information alone, not mother of the year material we're talking about, because it's not that she wanted him, she just didn't want her sister to have him. So that's what we're dealing with here. After he comes back,
00:38:28
Speaker
And I've heard shortly after this, but officially around seven years old, a man by the name of Willis Clark had been coming around the house, the Sells house, and with Tommy's mother's consent starts to groom and then molest Tommy. And that would continue. The sexual assault on Tommy would continue for the next 10 years. Like I said, mother of the fricking year. So he has one living parent.
00:38:58
Speaker
who not only knows about this abuse, and this parent knows about this abuse, and it's not a turning a blind eye because they're getting abused too, but basically gave her blessing for a pedophile to start abusing her son at age seven. And as Tommy's, and Tommy's telling the cops about this, and he- If we could videotape my face right now. Yeah, the whole thing, yeah. It's the most disgusted look.
00:39:30
Speaker
And there's other children she has that we don't know about, but I can't imagine they fared much better with her. Bro, like line them up. Just line them up. So Tommy says that the abuse he suffered greatly affected him, obviously, and caused him to turn to alcohol before he was 10 years old. Then around 10 years old, Tommy starts using narcotics.
00:39:57
Speaker
If that tells you the mental anguish, this child is in 10 years old and he's not, I'm not talking weed, I'm talking narcotics.
00:40:06
Speaker
At just 15 years of age, Tommy Lynn sells. It's like so weird to me, like how a kid that young can get involved with that. If your mom's basically pimping you out for free, what else? No, but no, that's not what I mean. That's not. You're talking about narcotics. No, I'm not talking about that at all. I thought you were talking about like how they get in the house. We have beers at the house. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? But my son has never been like curious enough.
00:40:35
Speaker
Even if he was, you were there. For a kid to seek it out. I don't think so. You don't accidentally try a narcotic. So at 10, he's an alcoholic at 10. No, he's an alcoholic starting around 8.
00:41:00
Speaker
At 10, he is a drug abuser, and at 15, Tommy Lynn Sells commits his first murder. At the age of what? 15. What? We'll get to that here in a little bit. After an attempted assault, there are several things that happen that Tommy does, but after an attempted assault on his mother, couldn't imagine why he'd want to assault his mother, he's kicked out and cast away from his family at 14 years old.
00:41:27
Speaker
So he's homeless and the young cells decides to start hitchhiking and train hopping across the United States, which will continue to be his way of living from 1978 to around 1999.
00:41:44
Speaker
He commits various crimes along the way, living a life of a heavy drinker and a drug abuser, which caused him to be in prison several times throughout his life. In 1990, he actually stole a truck in Wyoming and was sentenced to six months in jail. Right here, right before. That's like the only bed he's ever slept in. Right. Glorious. So in all his in and out in prisons and his confinement, he's obviously
00:42:10
Speaker
head-shrinked at some point for mental stability, and he's diagnosed with a personality disorder consisting of antisocial, borderline, and schizoid features. Substance abuse disorder, which is outlined as severe opioid use, amphetamines, and alcohol dependency. Bipolar disorder, major depressive disorder, and psychosis.
00:42:37
Speaker
Which really, after everything I just told you about the way this little boy was raised, I can't stand surprise. And while he is a literal monster, I still feel bad for this kid who lived through this and had to live through this. And if he had stayed with his aunt and been able to be an adopted, I wonder what his life would be like now. But anyway, back to the present. Well, present in the story.
00:43:04
Speaker
The investigators believe that Sells had murdered a minimum of 22 people, as he tells his nine months worth of his confessions. Texas Ranger John Allen, who was the one there watching Crystal flip through the pictures, was there when Tommy gave his statement on all his murders. And this is Texas Ranger John Allen's statement.
00:43:34
Speaker
We did confirm 22 murders. I know there's more. I know there's a lot more. Obviously we will never. So the media got ahold of this and dubbed him the coast to coast killer.
00:43:51
Speaker
as he was a drifter and a hitchhiker, as well as a truck driver at certain points in his life. This man literally went from one side of the United States to the other side of the United States killing. He killed men. He killed women. He killed children, as we heard about earlier.
00:44:08
Speaker
There was no race. There was no weight. There was no hair color. There was nothing that set his victims. It was like a keys kill kit, except he just drove around and went to murdering. The only thing that was consistent was how brutally he took his victims lives. So Tommy told the police of his first murder when he was 15. And for all intents and purposes,
00:44:36
Speaker
It was not supposed to be a murder. He did not go intending to murder someone at 15. He's homeless for a year at this point, and he's 15. He can't get a job, right? Like, I mean, logistically. Logistically or literally, thank you, whatever. I don't know. Oh, well, it is what it is. So he breaks. He breaks into houses and he steals. He steals from stores. He steals from wherever he can steal. So that's what happened this first time.
00:45:06
Speaker
He broke into a house to burglarize it, do a little beanie. And once he was inside this house, he saw an older man sexually abusing a young kid. And in a fit of rage, murdered that man.
00:45:22
Speaker
and then flopped because it brought him right back. He was that kid on the floor being forced to do that with that older man. When he, all he wanted to do is go steal some stuff to sell at a pawn shop and he sees his past and it is ripped right back into the frontal lobe. Okay. But he could have been a Dexter. He could have, but so he kills, he kills that man, kills him. And the kid lived, the kid gets away. He didn't, he didn't target the kid at this point at all.
00:45:49
Speaker
And so while likely story, yeah, but that kid did get away. It was never able, like he didn't know the kid's name. He'd been so many places he couldn't give the address, but it is, it's about a 50-50. Some people believe he's making that story up. Some people believe that that's probably actually how he did commit his first murder. So around 21,
00:46:12
Speaker
Um, Tommy had broadened his victims that first time. It was a, it was a rage kill of someone hurting a child that same situation happened to him by 21. That's not Tommy anymore. Men, women, children, all on the table. He's got confirmed kills in New York, Illinois, Massachusetts, Texas, Missouri, and Kentucky. Those are the ones that are confirmed a hundred percent. His DNA evidence is on it. We know without a doubt it's him.
00:46:41
Speaker
He sexually abused most of his victims, if not all, but when he got down to that final act of killing them, he was just violent. His MO was either to slice their neck open and let them bleed out as he slowly walked away or to bludgeon them to death with a heavy object.
00:47:04
Speaker
So, Crystal, we're gonna jump back into her story. She has to return to Del Rio. Her family obviously decided that's not the town for them. They're gonna move to Texas. Not there. A year after the events from the story I told you at the beginning to face Tommy Lynn's cells in court at 11 years old. While in Del Rio awaiting trial, Crystal did not stay at a hotel.
00:47:34
Speaker
She did not stay at a hostel. She didn't get set up anywhere like that. She and her mother stayed with Texas Ranger John Allen and his family in his family home.
Crystal Testifies & Justice Served
00:47:44
Speaker
Wow. And the weeks leading up to the nightmare, I'm sure it was a consistent, but it got bad. The leaks leading up to and John Allen can testify the day she stayed at his house.
00:47:57
Speaker
just horrific nightmares and tears because she's having to be prepped for this trial repeating that thing and and she's fixing to have to look him in the eyes because now if the kid has to testify in court with someone it's by proxy or by video they don't have to look at their abuser then she had to look at him within spitting range so
00:48:22
Speaker
Crystal does, she goes to court, 11, 11 years old. To this day, you can see the scar on her neck if you're looking for it, 11 years old. And you can legitimately watch this on trial. She is going through her testimony. And Crystal looks up about halfway through because Tommy is shaking his knee, banging his leg on the chair.
00:48:44
Speaker
He's nervous, he's fidgety, but this his unhinged crystal. Now she's nervous. Obviously, I'd be vomiting. I think it was intentional. He was trying to get her to shut up. I'm right here in my mid 30s, let's say mid to early to make me feel good. I'd be vomiting all over myself and have depends on if I'm that close to someone that hurt me a year ago. She's 11.
00:49:09
Speaker
So at this point, Crystal's so upset and so nervous, the court gives a break. Let her regain her composure. So she goes to the back and her mom and her lawyer meet with little Crystal to give her pep talk, if you will. And they're, and you know, I got to say most of the times on like SBU, if they're trying to question, are the kids getting upset? The mom's always, I'm not doing this to my kid. No, no, like props to Crystal's mom.
00:49:39
Speaker
Because her and the lawyer give her the pep talk saying, you're almost done. You just have a little bit left. You can do this. I know you can do this. You're going to put the sky away. You're so brave. You're so strong. You can do this. So court goes back in a session. Little Crystal walks back out, literally wiped the tears from her freaking face and finishes her testimony.
00:50:04
Speaker
But, as stated earlier, this litter, oh, I'm telling you, this is gonna get me, I'm gonna get the thick throat, just deal with it, it's gonna get quaver-y. So, at this point, Little Warrior Princess 11-year-old Crystal finishes her testimony.
00:50:20
Speaker
But that's not, that's not good enough for our, our crystal, the female fat, if you will. That's crystal is just now the female fat, it's fat and crystal. She's a category all over. Oh yeah. She is. That's what I'm saying. Like that was a category. Now she is a fricking category. So crystal up guys. Yeah. So this 11 year old girl is looking just could probably lean over. If they both lean and stretched arms, touch the man who's literally haunted her nightmares.
00:50:49
Speaker
And this little girl lays across the fricking table and re-enacts what happened that night from her perspective, how she peered over the bed. She is in court, reliving and acting out what happened to her that night, staring at the man that did it. I am going tactic online right now.
00:51:11
Speaker
You need to wrap this up. I know. I've got some good tubing to do. Okay. So when she's finished with her testimony and full-on reenactment, the defense attorney, which is Tommy Linsell's attorney, is openly weeping in court. Openly weeping. So moved by her. Wow. That's not normal. So when it comes time to cross-examine Crystal, this defense attorney just answers with no questions, Your Honor.
00:51:40
Speaker
Wow. Bam. Mic drop. Hang him up. Like, yeah. Like, hang him in, hang him high, guys. Dude, let's all grab a rope and twist. Nope. Hair despair. So Tommy, obviously, is convicted of murder and sexual assault of Katie Harris and sentenced to death. The jury, all 12 people, and it's Texas, but still, even on the most closed cut, it takes a while. Yeah. One hour to say guilty death.
00:52:10
Speaker
That's enough time for them to walk and be like, could you imagine sitting through that? A little girl, a little effing girl. She's literally reenacting everything. Like how she peered over the bunk bed on this table, looking at the jury. I'm surprised it took an hour. Did they not just walk in there and be like, who wants to pull the trigger? No, I'm going to tell you exactly what happened. They went in. They were all guilty.
00:52:39
Speaker
Death. I want to say it. No, I want to say it. No, I want to say it. No. Let's get some Chick-fil-A. Hang out here. Make it look like it's deliberated. An hour's not even enough time for them to have food delivered. They literally walked in there and were like, does anyone think? Nope, nope, nope. Well, I'm sure there's got to be a process.
00:52:58
Speaker
Yeah, you gotta sign off of it, but you gotta like, you know, all the evidence of what I've never been in that situation. I don't know. I can only assume you have to like reevaluate. You got 12 individuals in the United States in an hour to make a unanimous decision to put a man to death. Yeah. I want to know if there's any time record that's ever been smaller, especially in the nineties. Yeah. This is when we're, we're getting a little, you know, we're not as woke as we are today, but people have feelings.
00:53:29
Speaker
I think that even if it happened today in 2023 you can be as woke as you want but you're gonna be like how do you watch that little girl lay on a table and peer at you like she peered at him and whoo so Tommy Lynn so sat on death row for 14 years and during this time for
Finding Closure & Overcoming PTSD
00:53:50
Speaker
No, it is a good thing. During this time, he continued to confess to more and more murders than he previously did. He didn't die. Totally. Like there's a part of me that's like, yes, these people need closure. Like the families, they need the closure. But then there's a part of me that's like. Let's just put his name on it all. Of feeding this guy and letting him have like wreck time and.
00:54:15
Speaker
I bet I bet Because it was a kid and it was known that he sexually assaulted a murderer I bet he made sure to be solitary most the time because if he stepped out well death row is a totally different it is It's a totally I don't they don't share cells to my knowledge. It's true I have to deal with the green mile is my death row like knowledge based on the inside scoop
00:54:38
Speaker
So he did documentaries he did multiple interviews the id channel the id channel has a show called most evil and most appropriately he was on it and gave the number 78 people that he knew for a fact he'd killed and while yes i hate that he stayed alive for that long it did serve a purpose because in 2004
00:55:01
Speaker
Sales confessed that on October 13, 1997, so after he's in jail, on death row, he confessed to a previous murder. He literally kept confessing. So he confessed that on October 13, 1997, he broke into a home, took a knife from the butcher block in the kitchen, and stabbed a little boy to death, scuffled with a woman, and skedaddled.
00:55:25
Speaker
Those details were corroborated on the account of Julie Ray Harper, who had been convicted of murdering her son and was sitting in prison, and finally acquitted based off his testimony.
00:55:42
Speaker
in 2006. She would have died with the world believing she killed her son and no one listening to her except this guy just keeps telling all his random murders, telling all his random stories and one sounded familiar and let's look it up and we've got someone in jail for that. What do you know? He was finally executed April 3rd, 2014, which I did think was funny because that was two days ago, April 3rd, April 3rd, 2014. When asked if he wanted to give a final statement, he declined.
00:56:12
Speaker
Crystal was at the execution along with her mother and the entire Harris family. They all sat together and watched him die. Crystal could finally breathe as the monster who had haunted her for the past 15 years heart. She literally got to watch on the machine stop. So, nobody else in the house was injured? No, he went in there for Katie.
00:56:39
Speaker
And actually funny story, that thing that crystals courage, the CBS, like it literally gives everyone's accounts. Like it jumps around a lot, but it's a really cool read. Her little sister Marquis was furious because she was in Katie's room with them and set up a little pallet on the floor and was going to sleep there. And they wouldn't let her and kicked her out. Oh, saving her life. She said she remembered being furious. And when she woke up, there was a lady there dressed in purple.
00:57:10
Speaker
saying, get dressed, come with me, and she walked down the hall, and she recounts her story from a 17-year-old's mind's eye of seeing blood, coating the floor, coating the walls, not knowing what was happening. A 17-year-old? Seven-year-old, sorry, seven-year-old. Thank you. I know. So the story is a really good read. I will link it. I feel like, all right, at this point. I still got two pages. We're not done. Oh, go. I just want to let you know. Then I'll save this. You can give it. No, go. So I'll save it.
00:57:39
Speaker
So Crystal had long-term PTSD, obviously, for two years following the events. She, her mother, and her two younger sisters all slept in the same bed because she was too afraid to be alone. I'm sure she didn't want her sisters to be alone. And I got to be honest with you, as a mother, we're sleeping together for life, girl. Right? Yeah. Buckle in. Like, I hope you pick a nice dorm with a queen-sized bed because I'm
00:58:04
Speaker
We're all going to be together forever. She had counseling for years and just got by day by day. On November 15th, 2015, so year after Tommy Lynn Sells is put to death, there's an episode on Crime Watch Daily. There's a woman by the name of Melissa Tate watching this episode whose mother Joanne Tate was murdered in 1982.
00:58:32
Speaker
Melissa watches the episode and immediately contacts the police. Because she was seven years old when her mother was murdered, she witnessed it and that seven-year-old's little testimony put a man away for life, obviously, named Rodney Lincoln. But while watching this episode, she realized Rodney Lincoln is the wrong man. So she immediately calls the police.
00:59:02
Speaker
takes back everything, tells them, and it's 2015, they've got DNA, they test the evidence from her mother's murder, and what do you know? It was Tommy Lynn's cells. So after 33 years, Rodney Lincoln was granted his freedom and able to walk out a free man. So even after his death, Tommy Lynn's cells murders are still coming out. Crystal is now in her 20s and state, these are her statements,
00:59:31
Speaker
She doesn't waste any of her energy thinking about Tommy Lynn's cells anymore. She doesn't. She said she won't give him the power of letting fear control her. And instead, she tries to look at the situation as she is the luckiest girl alive. Never takes anything for granted and lives her life to the fullest because she was that close to death.
00:59:55
Speaker
She doesn't let him haunt her anymore, but instead looks at him as a reminder of the second chance she got to live the most positive life. Her and her sister's best friends. And actually, sadly enough, I meant to save the link and it got deleted. It was like a few years ago. Because obviously, this case is bananas.
01:00:19
Speaker
like banana sandwiches, bananas. Yeah. All that happened at the beginning. She adequately gives this and it's a freaking serial killer. Yeah. Like, are you kidding me? That's I was just going to say that like.
01:00:32
Speaker
So the whole case is bananas. Some guy got obsessed with her, started stalking her, threatening to kill her and her sister. He's arrested. Thank you. And I guys, I know, I know I am long winded. I know. But actually, this is we're only at an hour mark, so I'm doing frackin good. Yeah, we're good. I do want to run through a list really quick of the known victims of Tommy, because that's what we did here. They need mention.
01:01:01
Speaker
Yep, so July 5th, 1979 in Port Gibson, Mississippi. John Cade, age 39, was killed with a .32 caliber pistol during a home invasion. Near the crime scene, a man who was resembled to look like sales was observed. April 27th, 1982, St. Louis, Missouri. In November 2015, Melissa. It's all one thing. I know. It's all one thing. I know.
01:01:30
Speaker
November 2015, Melissa DeBors, Nate Tate told you about her, um, was watching it and remembers that back in 1982. So that's timeline, 1982 timeline, not lane. It's not a lane.
01:01:45
Speaker
In July 31, 1983, St. Louis, Missouri, Tiffany Gill, age 4, and Colleen Gill, age 32, were discovered in their house on Washington Terrace in the Weston neighborhood. They'd both been battered to death with a blunt weapon. July 26, 1985, Springfield, Missouri.
01:02:05
Speaker
A 21 year old cells worked at the Forsyth, Missouri Carnival where he met 28 year old Ena Cordett and her four year old son Rory Cordett.
01:02:15
Speaker
The court had invited Sells to her home that evening, and according to Sells, he had sex with her, fell asleep, awoke to find her stealing from his back pocket. He proceeded to beat her to death with her son's baseball bat, and then murdered the son because he was a child and could possibly ID him. The bludgeoned bodies were found three days later, but by then Tommy had been gone with the carnival and left town.
01:02:38
Speaker
May 1st, 1987, Lockport, New York. Suzanne Court's age 27 disappeared after leaving a nightclub alone. Her body was found on September 5th, 1995 at the foot of an embarkment near Niagara Falls, two miles away. Her cause of death was unknown due to decomposition. In 2004, Sells confessed that he'd murdered the woman in the area at that time. And his presence in the city was confirmed and he was able to identify her
01:03:07
Speaker
through photographs and tell them exactly where she'd been found and since he'd already been sentenced to death, he was not prosecuted. October 15th, 1987, in Lovelock, Nevada, Stephanie K. Stroh, 21, was last seen at the Four Way Cafe and Truck Stop in Wells, Nevada. Sales confessed to her murder.
01:03:28
Speaker
He said he picked her up while she was hitchhiking after offering her a ride to Reno, Nevada. They took LSD together and he strangled her, covered her body in concrete and dumped her in a hot spring. Her body to this day has not been able to be recovered. November 17th, 1987 in Ena, Illinois. Sells confessed to the murders of four members of the Dardeen family. He was hitchhiking and Sells was picked up by Keith Dardeen, 29, who brought him home for dinner.
01:03:59
Speaker
trying to do a good deed. When they arrived at the residence, Sells pulled out a handgun, shot Keith in the head twice. Then he emasculated him before shooting him more in the head. Keith's three-year-old son, Peter Darden, was bludgeoned to death and Sells also attacked Elaine Darden. Keith's 30-year-old pregnant wife went into labor after being beaten to death and gave birth to her daughter. What? Whose name was supposed to have been Cassie Darden.
01:04:29
Speaker
He fatally blunged the baby. Oh my God. Before mutilating Elaine's breast and sexually assaulting her corpse with a baseball bat that had been used to murder her children with and left it protruding out of her vagina. December 8th. What the fuck, dude? December 8th, 1988, Tucson, Arizona. Kent Allen Lawton, 51, was stabbed and buried in a shallow grave near a homeless camp. Sales claimed he killed Lawton because he refused to pay him for drugs. His body was found two days later.
01:04:58
Speaker
December 9th, 1991, Marianne, Florida. Tessa Hall, age 25, and her five-year-old Tiffany Hall were both bludgeoned to death with a wooden table leg in their own home. The killer had kicked in the front door, smashed the wooden table to pieces, and used one of the legs as a murder weapon. Serial killer Angel Martinez was suspected of the crime originally, but cells confessed to it as, confessed later as the double murder.
01:05:27
Speaker
October 13th, 1997, Lawrenceville, Illinois. 10-year-old Joel Kirkpatrick was stabbed to death in his bedroom while sleeping at night. His mother, Julie Rae Harper, ran to her son's bedroom to encounter an intruder wearing a ski mask, then fought off the intruder before fleeing. The murder weapon, a steak knife from Lee's own kitchen, had been left on the floor outside Joel's bedroom. She was convicted of Joel's murder and eventually exonerated in 2006.
01:05:57
Speaker
when Sells confessed to the crime. He claimed he targeted Joel because his mother insulted him at a nearby grocery store. October 15, 1997, Springfield, Missouri, 13-year-old Stephanie Mahaney was found in
01:06:13
Speaker
1997 in a farm pond west of Springfield. According to cells, he pulled her from her bed in the middle of the night from her own home, drove her to the field, injected her body with cocaine, raped her, strangled her little body to death. December 14, 1997, Las Vegas, Nevada, 19 year old Yvette Sophia Mueller was last seen in an RV park near Las Vegas.
01:06:38
Speaker
Sales claimed to have raped her, killed the blond-haired woman in Las Vegas, chopped her body up with an axe, and buried her next to the Snake River. The body was never found because it had been swept away by a landslide, but officials suspect he was referring to Mueller, who had disappeared. He just didn't know her name when he recounted the story.
01:06:57
Speaker
April 15th, 1998, San Antonio, Texas, Thomas Brose 40 was a carnival worker who was shot to death in his motorhome. He would had been seen with a man matching sales description and sales initially confessed to the crime. He did later try to recant it. But honestly, at this point, April 4th, doesn't even April 4th, 1994, Gibson, Tennessee, Deborah Harris, 31 and her eight year old daughter, Ambria,
01:07:26
Speaker
Harris Burton were both killed after cells broke into their house at night, raped Harris in her bed. She was stabbed repeatedly with her own kitchen knife, which was left in her chest. That was the eight-year-old. The mother was stabbed multiple times. The daughter, the eight-year-old, was stabbed three times
01:07:50
Speaker
after she witnessed Sellers rape and murder her mother. April 18th, 1999, San Antonio, Texas. Nine-year-old Mary Beatrice Perez was kidnapped from a market festival, driven to a stockyard, raped and strangled to death with their own t-shirt. Her body was felled into a creek 10 days later. Sellers, Sellers, Sellers, told his whole not recanted, but gave everything and
01:08:18
Speaker
It was him. May 23, 1999, Lexington, Kentucky, Haley McCone, 13, was kidnapped from a swing by Sells, dragged into a wooden area and raped. She was then strangled to death with her t-shirt, covered with debris, and her body was found 10 days later. Sells was arrested in the area at that time on an unrelated charge and was not connected.
01:08:45
Speaker
July 5th, 1999, King Fisher, Oklahoma, Bobby Lynn Warford, 14, was picked up from Love's convention store by sales who drove her to a secluded area, orally raped her, stabbed her repeatedly with a hatchet,
01:09:06
Speaker
and then shot her three times in the head with a large caliber revolver when she tried to escape. He dumped her body off on the side of the road, but kept two of her earrings. December 31, 1999. Del Rio, Texas. Caitlin Katie Harris, 13. We obviously know her story. Those are the ones we know about. So here's where I was going earlier.
01:09:32
Speaker
Yeah. We know he's done some shit. The lightly crazed, but yeah, sure. He keeps confessing continually, right? Yeah. And so that's like the positive side of the... It's not that he keeps confessing. People were exonerated. Yes. Well, that's not what... That's okay. Bear with me. Yeah, no, I'm saying like, that's the only good thing that... The only good reason he was kept alive is there were people in jail that got out.
01:10:01
Speaker
Besides that, a waste of oxygen. So we are 110% that this guy is dead. Deadass guilty. Okay? Oh, yes. So he's sitting on death row. Yes. So why not just every day?
01:10:18
Speaker
We go in and just remove like a part of his body and let him bleed for a while and be in pain. You know, I think start taking pounds of flesh. Yes. Right. Like just peel some skin back and just what? Just tell me how that let's talk about it. You know, there's talk about your feelings. There's a feel. There's a lot of times that, you know,
01:10:43
Speaker
People on the, I'm on the fence with the death conviction because people are wrongfully convicted, obviously. Um, when stories like this, when he's like, Oh, thank God you caught me. I'm, my arms are getting tired from all this murder and I've been doing, I feel like the, um, the good old American way of humane treatment should go right out the dang window.
01:11:07
Speaker
You want to act like an animal? Like, here's the deal. You're not. That's even worse. Animals don't just pick at each other for no reason. No, I know animals also kill each other for no reason. But that's it is what it is. But it's usually over territory or food. There's always there's an underlying scope. And my thing is, like, I get what he lived through as a child was horrific. How could he then turn around and do that to other children? He had no justification.
01:11:37
Speaker
The people that did it to him probably never even got busted. He never and at a moment had that relief of this is not gonna happen to anybody. It's not gonna happen to me again. It's not gonna happen to anybody else again. His first murder was because he was angry. And quite frankly, if he'd continued his life in the Dexter way of just killing people that hurt kids because it triggered him, by all means, I'll help you research a list, sir. But the moment he started,
01:12:08
Speaker
Sympathy is such a stupid thing. OK, I can have sympathy for him. I can have sympathy for the child he was. I can have sympathy for him with everything that he went through. The place that dark place that took him in his mind. Yeah. Will I ever stand here and justify how he? No, no, no. The way he went forward? Absolutely not. No.
01:12:36
Speaker
So that is my story on our one year birthday of Twisted Tales. I'm not done yet. I loved that. Just little crystals. I can't, I don't understand, dude. You have way exceeded your limit. I'm gonna have to edit all that out. I know, but it's like, it's just, well, no, it's all of them. Sometimes I have a better filter, nine times out of 10, not so much. This would like, I'm gonna be honest with you. When I first heard this story,
01:13:06
Speaker
I've heard it several different ways, but the first time I heard it, they recounted Crystal's description of that night, which is the way I chose to do it. And when she's talking about how she's peering and he puts Katie on his knees, I'm like, she's about to watch her friend get raped. I did not see the throat slit coming. Like it was an audible what the what from me. And then on the side of my mind, I'm also like, well, thank God he didn't rape her.
01:13:32
Speaker
And then you find out he did. Like literal scumbag.
01:13:39
Speaker
You know how I feel about kids. Yes, I do. OK, there is not a punishment in the world that is sufficient. There's not for any adult and anyone that can be thought of. It should be 10 times worse. I'm going to be completely honest. If you need ideas, government on how to treat people that abuse children, we got to come on. We got it all, bro. I've got some ideas. OK, I got lists. Let's be creative. Let's come. People by nature can be very gruesome. Look at our history, bro.
01:14:09
Speaker
Yeah, all right. I just can't like no I do I feel sympathy for a kid that goes through it who has no justice in their life. No, even knowing what he did when I heard and read about his life growing up like my heart broke for that little boy. Yeah.
01:14:29
Speaker
who had a chance at a decent life and his selfish, worthless mother took it because no one else could have it. Yeah, well, here's the thing too. And this is probably a very, very common disagreeable argument from Lisa, but I'm gonna say it.
01:14:45
Speaker
This kid had a horrible life. He knew no justice. He knew nothing but violence. He knew nothing but garbage. Here's my thing. You commit those same crimes against another human.
01:15:04
Speaker
Do you have a place in this world? Can you be rehabilitated? The answer? Nine times out of ten? No. They can't. No. There's the one off. This is this is a legitimate direct quote from Tommy Linsell.
01:15:20
Speaker
I am hatred. When you look at me, you look at hate. I don't know what love is. Two words I don't know or like to use are love and sorry, because I am about the hate. And that's legitimately- But here's the deal, okay? In all honesty, we can hate these criminals.
01:15:41
Speaker
Yeah, I can hate them dust hold on we can we can talk about how many ways to skin a cat Okay, and put this guy to death. Yeah to the matter is you were a shit parent You're a shit human. Yeah, and the fact that you would sacrifice your own kid
01:15:59
Speaker
for your own ambition not even that to me you should have been the one skinned alive the mom didn't get anything out of it oh the mom and you know one of the podcasts i listened to a hundred percent agree vote for us wife of crime go is if the mom like if the parents are complicit are like are the cause of this they should suffer the same
01:16:21
Speaker
The same judgment. Remifications. Yes. He got death. His mom should have gotten it for what she put that child through. Yeah. Because she wasn't even like a monetary exchange. Here's the deal, though. This guy literally said to her. Here's what pisses me off. I want him. And she said, OK, you can have it. You're going to be like, yeah, take it, right? But here's the deal. Oh, I just, you know, abused a child. How many years am I going to get?
01:16:45
Speaker
Um, eight months, maybe if I'm lucky. Cause it's my first defense. It depends on how much money you got in the color. Let's just be honest. Let's call a spade a spade in America. Okay. So now again, a crime against a child. Oh, well, you know, I can't tell you how many times I've witnessed children in a daycare being completely neglected and infuriating. Okay. Well, we have a hundred different reasons why.
01:17:11
Speaker
Things are never going to work out the way that we want them to. We don't have enough government support. We don't have enough people to do the job. We don't have enough this. We don't have this. We don't have this. Problem. One out of every 10 of those crazies is going to turn into that guy. Yeah. Okay.
Resilience & Survival Stories
01:17:30
Speaker
Some people can cope. Some people can't hurt people. Yes. And you, Misery loves company.
01:17:39
Speaker
Would you sit back down? No, I can't. I can't sit back down. I'm angry. Because this pisses me off. It does. And you knew it was going to strike me right in the cheek. OK. But it's also amazing that that 10 year old little girl lived through that, walked a quarter of a mile with her throat freaking cut open. And I'm like, she never should have had. She shouldn't have. But she did. And she is a freaking rock star. Oh, dude. She has highest props. I mean.
01:18:09
Speaker
She's got her own category, too. I can only hope in my mothering experience that I raise a kid that's so bold and so patient and and caring. Her neck is cut open and her first thought is to I'm going to comfort my friend until she stops making noises. And then I'll I'll figure out what to do.
01:18:35
Speaker
That guy could have walked back in any minute. Bro, if I could get half of that, I'd be content. Yeah. If you fall down the side of stairs, I'm laughing at you. I'm not asking if you're okay. Yeah, nine times out of, yeah, mostly. Like... I don't know why I'm referencing everything to numbers. I'm sorry. I don't know. Whatever. It's not numbers. It's nine out of ten. One out of ten. Nine out of ten. Well, it's numbers. It's okay. I always use the example 52. It's a numbers. It's fine. This story, like, I don't know, it pisses me off, but it also is...
01:19:03
Speaker
It is a miracle. It is. And she is amazing. Yeah. And at 10, 10. Yeah. Walking along the road with a throat cut open in the desert in the pitch black. I wouldn't do that today.
01:19:20
Speaker
Even with my throat not coming, I wouldn't walk in the desert at night for myself. Nobody knows in that situation what you're willing to do. I'm a fraidy cat, a fraidy cat, and I think I'd power. I would have laid there and pretended to be dead and tried to breathe the real shallow, like I'm that big of a dummy. No, she's intense, man. Like that is a golden heart.
01:19:39
Speaker
golden human, like freaking gold star for that kid. And her first words waking up in the ICU, get me a police officer. Not mom, I love you. Get them some help. So I want to again refer to you the example that was given of the definition of courage. She called on all her courage to face the ordeal. How fitting.
01:20:03
Speaker
That's perfect. I'm telling you, I have this story. I've been in it. People at work were like, why are you being nice? And I'm like, I'm in a good mood. I'm thinking about little crystal. My life is great, honestly, right? It really is. It's incredible. My kid is now going to be handcuffed to me for the rest of her natural born life. But that's another trauma for another day to talk about. No kidding.
01:20:23
Speaker
That's why when Kayla was like, can we go in the front yard? No, you can stay in A. And you're also never going to write a school bus. No. You're never going to write a school bus. I got a lot of examples. Don't ask me that the other day. She goes, mom, are you ever going to make me write a school bus? And I literally went, no. And she was like, you didn't have to yell at me. And I'm like, well, no. No. So fun facts, because I don't like to leave people
01:20:46
Speaker
upset like you currently are. So just random facts about this case about this just because it's who I am. Tommy
Honoring Victims Over Killers
01:20:55
Speaker
Lynn Sells is dead. Thank God. But not that he is the inspiration.
01:21:01
Speaker
behind season one. And I think I have the episodes. I had the episodes saved, but it's called The Fox on Criminal Minds. No way. They don't ever mention his name, but they based the character off of him, a family annihilator, whole nine, where he was the one that would like walk into a family's house and like kill the dad.
01:21:21
Speaker
and like take over the family. Yeah, I was going to say that was the train hopper guy. I think so. I couldn't remember. I took a screenshot of his freaking picture and it is gone. So I don't have that anymore. Oh, yes, I do. It's that guy. But it's the fox is dedicated to him. But more adequately, in my opinion, Criminal Minds also did another whole case.
01:21:47
Speaker
which was inspired by this man. And that was season five's episode finale, which bled into season six, episode one, Our Darkest Hour.
01:21:59
Speaker
And I was reading the synopsis and I'm like, I kind of remember this, I kind of, I don't know what happened. And oh, I remember it because it's the guy from the Rocky Horror Picture Film that had the gross teeth that rode around in the RV with the rolling blackouts. Yeah, that guy. Based off this, you know, mine's got three episodes off this monster and you could probably get more. But yeah, so I thought that was just a kind of fun factoid.
01:22:25
Speaker
Because this case was horrible, but Crystal, you are- Can I tell you what I love? You are amazing, Crystal. Can I tell you what I love the most about it? About the story? About this whole thing? Oh, yes. Okay. I surprised you with cupcakes. You did, yes. But I remember, me personally, Crystal's story. Do you remember it? I do. I meant to ask you that, Athena. What I don't remember is him.
01:22:52
Speaker
That he was a fracking serial killer. But to me, that needs to be the most memorable moment. As Tim, Lisa, and Thad, and all these other cases. F that, man. My thought did not trigger to that serial killer guy. No, it was Crystal. My thought was,
01:23:14
Speaker
That was that 10 year old that like frickin made history. Yeah, that my friend is what needs to be remembered. That's what we shouldn't give serial killers cool names. We need to push their victims. And I love the fact that you brought that up. Thank you. It's not. It's not this dick bag. It's crystal crystals. We have so many Netflix specials about Dahmer.
01:23:37
Speaker
and he's so cute okay we have and all there yeah okay do you know what I remember the night stalker what that he was confronted in a neighborhood and couldn't effing leave yeah okay because these people are like you stand here and wait for the cops or we'll just butcher you ourselves yeah okay
01:23:56
Speaker
That, my friend, right there. Mm hmm. That's what needs to be remembered is a community, a people, a person who brought them down. Yeah. Why did they get brought down? That's what needs to be like special about what? And let's be honest.
01:24:12
Speaker
We have a podcast because we love, we don't love serial killers, but we like these details and we like talking about it. But what I like the most about all of this crap is the fact that they get brought down. And survivor stories are my favorite. I prefer them over serial killers and everything. Absolutely. And then not just the hero stories, but bringing awareness to the things that are going on out there.
01:24:40
Speaker
Yes, that's my education. Yes. So, oh, man, I'm getting like kind of emotional. So we need to cut this off. I don't do emotion. It doesn't have emotion. Well done.
01:24:55
Speaker
I'm standing up again. You haven't sat down. My neck is hurting. I can't. No, I did. So I sat down for like a solid eight point five. So when I was sick this past weekend, I literally told Frankie, I have to get better. I found the best story. That's our one year birthday. And he was like, hey, just go back to sleep. But I'm like, but I have.
01:25:15
Speaker
Yep, I had the bat at the Black Plague this past weekend, but. Crystal, so I mean, Crystal gets me like reviewing everything and trying to find like any last detail I could about her this morning, like just thinking about her and the fact that she's like, you know what? I don't give that piece of scum one moment of my thoughts, except to think I'm the luckiest person alive and I have a second chance at life because of him.
01:25:40
Speaker
In spite of him like that's what when his name's brought up. That's what she thinks so Like when I was a rock star she's like intense man. I would use like the perfect example of Courage strength and humanity all of it. Yeah
01:25:59
Speaker
The fact, I mean what literally what blows my mind and what got me emotional every time was her rubbing her best friend's back as she died. As she's laying out the fact that the first thing in her little tiny handwriting is the heiresses are hurt. And then the first thing waking up in the ICU after almost dying is get me the police.
01:26:24
Speaker
Like, there it is. The Harris's are hurt. Look at that. Blood dripping all over. I mean, that's a crime scene. The Harris's hurt this guy.
01:26:35
Speaker
She is an inspiration. Absolutely. And we've had a lot of people. We've had Lisa McVeigh, who was smart as heck and just said she was going to take her own life. And then she said, nope. Not today. You're not taking it. Nope. And now protects. This is my choice. I literally, I think of her every single morning dropping my child off at school when I pass the resource officer there that directs traffic, who actually goes to our church. Every time I see Officer Emily, I think of Lisa McVeigh and think,
01:27:05
Speaker
Wow, like from what you, wow. Our fad, like what he lived through and just refusing to give up, killing himself over and over to the point of blacking out in pain and refusing to, like all of them are heroes in my book. 10. You are a baby and you brought down a serial killer no one even knew was killing you.
01:27:31
Speaker
And you live your life every day, not locked in a cellar because I would, I would never trust people again. Well, it's the bus driver. Yeah. That you talked about. Like how do you ever let your kid ride a bus ever? He was surrounded by those kids. Like we've had so many good people, so many good stories to get me jazz, but Crystal, like, like,
01:27:55
Speaker
It is. Well, look, here's the deal, though. I know that sometimes it's really, really hard to tell a story from a victim's standpoint.
01:28:05
Speaker
But I think that's what I love the most about our podcast is that when we can, we do. So because I think you talked about exactly you talked about crystal story. Yeah, we talked about the scumbag. Yeah, absolutely. Because, you know, there's got to be there is there's got to be some.
Heroism Beyond Expectations
01:28:21
Speaker
And, you know, a lot of times on serial killers, let's just like Israel, Jesus, for example, they go through all his kills and those kill kits and all this stuff. And here's how worked he was. Here's how great great those people have lives.
01:28:35
Speaker
And we do it too sometimes. But when I did the subway deal, OK, I didn't tell the story. You didn't give him. You gave her. I gave her account because his story. Didn't matter. Unfortunately, her story moved me. Unfortunately, these serial killers and these drains abscessed on the butt cracks of society. Yeah. Their stories.
01:29:05
Speaker
are a dime a dozen. You get them all the time. Different renditions, different people playing the parts. You've got 1,800 dommers that have played Dommer at this point. But the crystals and the fads and all these people, those are one in a million.
01:29:24
Speaker
Yes, they are. And I think those should be the ones that are talked about over and over. And you know what? If you've heard Crystal's story a thousand times, I hope you listen to it anyway, because you know what? I've legitimately listened to her story every day and I get choked up every time. Yeah. I've listened to it like a hundred times at this point. And I've listened to these same podcasts, give her story multiple times. And I've gotten choked up over the same people that I've heard tell the same story. And I can almost say it word for word the way they said it. Yeah.
01:29:54
Speaker
But every time because it is awe inspiring to me like it and that's that's what Frankie this morning was like, why are you so excited about this? And I was like, you just she's 10. Yeah, what she did. I don't legitimately think I could do as a grown adult. I don't think I could be that bright. Like I just don't think walking
01:30:18
Speaker
like walking in the dark, waiting to death, not knowing if he's watching you, just waiting for you to get closer. One effing thing that kids are afraid of the dark and the boogeyman under the bed. She was on the top bunk. She had both of them. Same night, same time. Like she met the boogeyman. What she what like what she lived through and what she did. And the way she responded, even just the Harris's or her rubbing Katie's back, like all of that.
01:30:48
Speaker
That is what makes a child innocent. And it's what makes people amazing. Like, yes, those kind of things that happen.
01:30:59
Speaker
Like when people do that, Lisa McVeigh hiding fingerprints everywhere to prove her version of what happened that night was true. And a little boy Michael on the other bus manned up protecting that little girl.
01:31:19
Speaker
singing song like those people that just rise so far above what my expectations of humanity like even the good in humanity like we can we can spend billions of dollars going to watch the Avengers truth be told that's not a hero that these these guys these men these women they yeah they're heroes it's those stories that like the little perfect example the little boy who that dog was about to is a
01:31:48
Speaker
The dog I think decimate his sister and he took the full brunt. Yeah, and his face and he was an Avengers and all the Avengers like showed up individually to give him signed and all this stuff like he got the Captain America shield. He got a Tony Stark love like if you got all these things, Tony Stark, Iron Man, math, they got these things and they all said, we're not the heroes, buddy. You are.
01:32:09
Speaker
It's those people who like there's a high expectation of what you should do and they go so far above it that you're like, yeah, like the military. How did you do that? How did you even think? Like why in the world would you go sacrifice yourself for my you don't even know me. I'm protest protesting that you're out there. Yeah, I'm protest protesting. You're out there. You're still fighting away from your family risking death for my right to spit on your flag and to disrespect you to your face.
01:32:38
Speaker
Blows my mind. Blows
Gratitude & Podcast's Mission
01:32:40
Speaker
my. So anyways, guys, I'm sorry, we got to wrap that up. Yeah, we could go on all night. Literally all mine. Like truth be told, these are the kind of stories that are inspirational. OK, and it's it's about the human conscience. It's about parenting and it's about love. Main, plain and simple. It's about love. Yeah. OK, and if you love your kid, no matter what. Chances are they're going to do OK.
01:33:08
Speaker
If you're a dirtbag. Chances are. Not going to be great. Unless they just rise above. And some people very well have that kind of motivation. Some people do. So. We're going to keep going. Judgmental. Anyways. It was judgmental. I love you guys. We love you guys. Happy one year. Thanks for hanging in there a year. And we will talk to you again next week. Yeah. I should probably start looking for something. Bye bye. Bye.