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Supporting NICU Parents: Insights from a Dad's Perspective (feat. Adam Wood)
190 Plays1 year ago
Welcome back to another episode of The Therapy4Dads Podcast! I'm your host, Travis Goodman, and today we have a very special guest joining us, Adam. In this episode, we will delve into his personal experiences navigating the roller coaster journey of having a premature baby in the NICU. We'll discuss the crucial role of healthcare professionals in supporting parents and the entire family dynamic during this challenging time. Adam shares heartfelt stories of nurses offering support and much-needed breaks, as well as the varying levels of attentiveness and empathy from doctors. We'll explore the importance of educating healthcare professionals about the emotional struggles faced by parents and the significance of open communication and support. Adam also highlights the need to encourage men to express their difficulties openly and seek out the resources available for their own well-being. Get ready for a candid and enlightening conversation that aims to bring awareness to the unique challenges faced by fathers in the NICU. So grab a cup of coffee, sit back, and let's dive into Adam's Premie Adventures on The Therapy4Dads Podcast!
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Transcript
Challenges of NICU for Families
00:00:00
Speaker
So the NICU has a very complex dynamic of different people, different families, different parents that are really trying to navigate probably the hardest situation in their entire life. And having to navigate that in a very isolated space where there's not a lot of support systems, there's not a lot of ability to congregate, talk with other parents about what they're going through. And it really is a very scary situation.
00:00:24
Speaker
This is a Therapy for Dads podcast. I am your host. My name is Travis. I'm a therapist, a dad, a husband. Here at Therapy for Dads, we provide content around the integration of holistic mental health, well-researched, evidence-based education and parenthood. Welcome.
Father's Perspective on NICU
00:00:43
Speaker
Welcome everybody to this week's episode of the Therapy for Dads podcast. I'm excited to have this conversation. We have not talked about this yet on this show, but it is such an important conversation and one that looking at it from perspective of being a father when we experience this. But before we jump into the episode, I first want to introduce the guest and that is Adam. So welcome Adam. How are you doing? Good. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate you. Yeah. So where are you calling in from? Where are you at?
00:01:14
Speaker
I'm from Connecticut
00:01:15
Speaker
Connecticut. So we are on the opposite end of the earth, not the earth, sorry, the United States. It is a long way away. And, you know, I would love this piece of this podcast is that we, I have been able to connect with men and women across the world, literally across the world, across the United States and in Europe and Canada and all over the place, kind of uniting these conversations and finding that there's a lot of people out there doing amazing things, trying to help and bring resources and healing and support.
00:01:44
Speaker
to men and fathers and and Adam is one of them and I don't know how we I forget who stumbled upon who but we begin talking and it's one of those things that I think like a lot of things in life you don't you don't really realize how often or how regular some things happen in life
Understanding the NICU Environment
00:02:00
Speaker
Until it happens to you or your family goes through it and then you realize actually this is kind of more common than you think a higher percentage than you think and so the conversation tonight is really about one than the NICU and having a baby and premature baby and Then with that is kind of the support or gaps of support for men and fathers So Adam, you know, let's just begin the conversation with that So what are some of the stats first and foremost about kind of the NICU and premature babies?
00:02:29
Speaker
Well, it's estimated in the United States alone, that's one in nine children were born premature to some degree. So prematurity typically is any child that's born 36 weeks or earlier. Anything past 36 weeks is considered a full term, a full term pregnancy and usually has very little complications and stays. But one of the other things that a lot of people don't really realize is that they think often with a NICU, it's premature babies, but 60% of
00:02:55
Speaker
the babies in the nick you actually full term babies that have all kinds of medical issues and those could be kids with heart issues brain issues developmental issues diseases that are born that way so the nick you has a very complex dynamic of different people different families different parents that are really trying to navigate
00:03:15
Speaker
probably the hardest situation in their entire life and having to navigate that in a very isolated space where there's not a lot of support systems, there's not a lot of ability to congregate, talk with other parents about what they're going through and it really is a very scary situation.
00:03:31
Speaker
Yeah, I have not had the experience of that personally. I've had friends and other family members go
Adam's Personal NICU Journey
00:03:38
Speaker
through it. And as you said that, I can only imagine how terrifying and scary all those things could be, especially when we all have expectation of
00:03:49
Speaker
Birth is supposed to be an exit, you know great experience, you know We have some idea of what can happen But we often aren't thinking of that's gonna be me going to the NICU or having or having to have these complications But it's more common than we think and so I'm wondering how did you get involved with even this kind of this passion or this this heart to help those in these situations? I
00:04:10
Speaker
Well, after we were in the NICU and our son was born 25 weeks, so he was 15 weeks early, he weighed just over one pound. So he's one pound, four ounces. And he was about 10 inches long. We spent 135 days in the NICU here in Connecticut.
00:04:26
Speaker
And it was a very difficult, long journey for us, a lot of ups and downs and highs and lows. But throughout that process, I just realized that there was a gap in a lot of things, a lot of resources in books, materials, therapeutic access for people, ability for them to be able to talk with individuals that understand what they're going through. And you just really find that you're in an isolated space. And a lot of people are searching for answers. So one of the things that I started to do is say,
00:04:56
Speaker
To try to create a space that people come to they can share their stories they could talk about what's going on they can listen to other parents that are different phases in their journey weather.
00:05:06
Speaker
They're in the NICU, they've been out for a year or two, 10 years. And it's amazing how much they're willing to share their stories even when it's traumatic for them to relive that because they're helping other people. So I've created kind of platforms, I've created websites that really is about sharing information, finding different people that are resources and kind of paying it forward and saying, you know, come check this place out or reaching out to Paris and saying,
00:05:33
Speaker
You know, there are nonprofits locally near you that can help you and support you, linking with other parent networks, with dad networks, finding them all over. I found dad networks that are in the UK, over in Australia. And so whenever I find parents that kind of come to me and find me either through websites or social media, I steer them in the direction and try to get them the support they need, because it's really just about paying it forward and helping those parents and kind of setting yourself up.
Support Systems for NICU Parents
00:05:59
Speaker
in a position where you're helping somebody that maybe you didn't have the help for. And I think it's really helpful when you're able to do that and make something positive out of the experience and allow a parent to have their experience be a little bit less scary than what you had for you.
00:06:14
Speaker
You mentioned isolation a few times as you were talking. Was that something that you experienced kind of going through like having a premature child and being in the NICU for what 135 days you said? Yeah, something that you've experienced personally?
Impact of COVID-19 on NICU Families
00:06:29
Speaker
Yeah, certainly. I mean, that's with every parent that's in the NICU, everybody that has a premature child, they've probably talked with over a thousand different parents over the last few years and with through talking with them through interviews, through foundation events and all of that. And the one thing that they always say is it's isolating, it's alone.
00:06:48
Speaker
Mostly because of the fact of you're in these different areas, you're secluded from other families. There's a lot of HIPAA laws that even prevent you from even going over when a family says it's okay to talk to them. So sometimes you'll see a parent and you'll just kind of have to do the nod, the wink, the thumbs up because HIPAA won't even allow you to come over and
00:07:08
Speaker
support them, which is kind of, it's hard and difficult. And then you take on top of that, the last three years of COVID, even more isolation for those families. While we didn't have to deal with that, when we went through in 2018, I've had family members, I've had friends, I just did a interview with a young lady who had COVID, her husband had COVID, and then they were in the NICU and had to be isolated from their child. So for
00:07:36
Speaker
19 days, they couldn't even go to the NICU to see their child. And on top of that, both of them couldn't be there at the same time to support each other. So imagine having to go to the NICU and not have your certificate other with you, your partner, to hold your hand, to be there, to cry on, and you're having to spend seven, eight, 10 hours alone with that baby, hearing all the alarms, the doctors.
00:08:01
Speaker
So it's even more scary with everything we've had with the pandemic. And you've just, you talk about the lasting effects of what has done across the world. And that's one area in community that probably not a lot of people realize how difficult it was on your connection to your child in the beginning, your ability to hold them, to read to them, to touch them, to do all the things you're supposed to do as a parent.
Parental Interaction Benefits in NICU
00:08:25
Speaker
is so meaningful to their growth and development, and in many ways, it could mean whether or not they live or die. The studies show that, overwhelmingly, the more impact the parent has by their care, by holding them through skin-to-skin contact on their chest, on their body, through reading, through music, through any interaction with the parent, even just smelling them, has overwhelming effects on the long-term
00:08:53
Speaker
growth development and whether or not they do end up surviving because in the NICU you can have a lot of families that have very similar circumstances and one child may progress and eventually go home and another child may be there for for a very long time or unfortunately not survive and I saw that many times where we would see families and you know they would be on the same machines as we were
00:09:16
Speaker
They had the same situations, same doctors, they were there all the time. And what changed and what had a different dynamic from baby to baby, one will never know. But the one thing we do know is that the interaction of parents in the care of their child in the early stages is monumentally important. Every NICU doctor, every nurse, anybody that's in that field will tell you it has a lasting effect more than you will ever realize. And I think that's one thing that a lot of parents
00:09:43
Speaker
who don't have children that are premature or babies that are in the NICU that are sick don't realize how crucial those little things that you're doing and you kind of take advantage of in the beginning of being a parent, you know, holding your child and being able to do that. There's so many families that it could be weeks or months before they even gave to hold them for the first time. So it's a very isolating experience. And that's kind of why I've done a lot of things I've done with writing books.
00:10:08
Speaker
with social media accounts, with interviewing families, with connecting with a variety of people through so many platforms is to make them understand that you're not alone. I feel the same things you feel. I think the same things that I went through are funny too. I use a lot of humor with that because it's a way for me to cope. It's a mechanism that I think a lot of us identify with. And when I'm able to make somebody laugh and say, yeah, that was a really bad day, but to see another parent that sees it the same way I do,
00:10:37
Speaker
It makes them feel seen. And I think that's a hard thing to do. And it's important to feel seen. And when these families are able to connect with people, even through social media, thousands of miles away, they never met. I think it's a very crucial part to being able to navigate the NICU and eventually be able to process that, to get through that and eventually come to terms with everything they went through.
00:11:00
Speaker
Yeah and you're right taking it for granted I mean there's so many things you said that I want to definitely have you expand on but the thing that said to me initially that I felt like in my body was just that not being able to hold your kid or be near them or even the the family that going through COVID like really that separation and how
00:11:19
Speaker
in a way, not that I took it for granted to hold my kids, but I didn't, I didn't have to have the experience of not being able to hold my kid for 19 days or touch them or smell that, like all those things that I was doing, not even thinking about it, maybe unintentionally taking it for granted, but that to me was normal. It's like, I didn't think there was no grid for that for me. So to me hearing that, I'm just like, I can't, I can't imagine. I can't imagine how that must feel in feeling like wanting to do something that I can and
00:11:45
Speaker
the isolation and you mentioned the hippo laws you can't even you see someone hurting you want to support but you can't talk to them and how awkward that must feel like help I don't know if helpless like what do I do with this like how do I can you speak a bit more of like so you mentioned isolation what are some of the other experiences or things you mentioned alarms and all these sounds like what are some of the experiences that you can maybe give some a little bit of a window to for people that haven't had that experience
Emotional Challenges in NICU
00:12:09
Speaker
Well, you know, besides the isolation, it's it's an overwhelming amount of information being thrown at you. And you think about that is that there's people from all walks of life, all backgrounds, all education, all cultures around the world that are going through the exact same thing. And again, it's it's while we may have different cultures and different opinions, we all suffer through the same things universally. Unfortunately, we all deal with it. We all deal with the grief and the in the
00:12:38
Speaker
anguish and the pain and the anxiety the alarms are a big part of that you the hard part is you're watching your baby and you have all these wires going into them you have all these tubes going into them you have these bright lights you have these dim lights you have alarms all around you going off with other babies you have a nurse that's just inches away from you constantly sitting there just dedicated to your child and
00:13:02
Speaker
While it's comforting, it's also scary because you know that you need somebody to be that close to them for so long to be able to get better. And there's constant change, constant back and forth. It's a roller coaster ride. Every NICU parent will tell you that the NICU is a roller coaster. It's ups and downs. It's high as it slows. It's coming in in the morning and you're living the best day of your life because your child is progressing and they're doing great and all their numbers come back.
00:13:31
Speaker
And you go down to grab something from the cafeteria, you come back and the entire team surrounded your baby. And it's just so quickly how things can change. So your body is physically and emotionally wiped out. It feels like you ran a marathon, especially the first week or two. I consider myself to be somebody that's in great health, served in the military.
00:13:54
Speaker
for 20 years, so I'm used to that regiment, my body being able to put through stuff. I never felt more exhausted than those first few weeks because you can't get enough sleep, you can't fall asleep when you get home.
00:14:06
Speaker
All you're thinking about is, you know, if the call comes in, what's going to happen? And those first few weeks, you're also just constantly like talking with the doctors and hoping that you're not going to get a phone call to like come to the hospital now and and you're not sure if something's going to happen to them. And I think as a as a dad,
00:14:25
Speaker
You feel very useless because one of the main things as men and as fathers, we are supposed to be protecting our spouse and we are supposed to be protecting our children. And you can't do either there. There's nothing you can do to say to the doctors or to say to God or to say to the universe, hook me up to all the machines, let my wife, let my child be okay. Let me take that. And I think most men out there and fathers would do that.
00:14:54
Speaker
They would take all of it so that their kid can just have a nice, easy stay. But that's not how it works. And you find yourself trying to figure out, what can I do? And you kind of sit there and you feel like you're just a paperweight for a bit and you don't know what you can do. You don't know what to say to your partner. You don't know what to say to the doctors. You're trying to keep all your emotions in check. And I think as a big part of what men and dads do is they have a
00:15:21
Speaker
a poker face the entire time they're there. The emotions that they present to their spouse, the emotions they present to others is not reflective of what they are really dealing with on the inside, but they're never going to say anything about it. They're never going to reveal that because we don't want to put any more pressure, any more stress on our partner. We want to support them because they're going through even worse probably stress than we are because with moms often, it's guilt and no matter what,
00:15:51
Speaker
you tell them and no matter what the doctor says and the nurse and the practitioners and the therapists that come there and the support and say you did everything right and it's not your fault that your child is sick or premature. They blame themselves. They'll blame themselves for the the fruit they ate or the burger they ate or
00:16:11
Speaker
They go into all these things where they blame, blame, blame themselves. And just, it takes them a while, if ever, to really get to the point where they say, it's not my fault. It happens. And I think it's important for, you know, people to talk about it. And that's one of the reasons I do talk a lot about it is because I think people need to understand that your emotions are feelings.
Normalizing Emotions for Fathers
00:16:30
Speaker
We're all feeling the same thing as you're feeling. Moms are feeling that. Dads are feeling that. It's not your fault. And I think when we can normalize those feelings and talk about it out loud,
00:16:39
Speaker
It helps other parents in real time when they come across a podcast, they come across a video, they come across the post on social media. They can sit there and say, I felt like that. I'm not the only one. I'm not weird. I'm not crazy. It's normal. And you have to normalize the emotions and the ups and downs of that experience so that people can process it, get through it and hopefully recover. Yeah.
00:17:04
Speaker
And I'm wondering for you, and then I want to talk, we'll transition to some of the gaps in some of what you've been doing, which I think is so important to kind of fill these gaps and seeing a need. And I'm wondering if you could speak to, at least from your experience, you mentioned, I think in one hand, the men will, in this situation, probably get into kind of their own survival mode, just to function. I'm wondering if, to some degree, there might be some themes you can pull from this that I think men might be feeling or experiencing underneath this kind of
00:17:34
Speaker
stoic armored right persona that I think men are feeling isolated from which is I know why you're trying to help men because men need support too and we've talked about this is that I guess what was some things that you were feeling that you didn't initially communicate early on?
00:17:49
Speaker
One of the things, the big thing was guilt, and you normally don't think that, but the good majority of men that are experiencing children that are premature and also babies that are sick in the NICU, but most often it's premature children, is we are often thrust into a role that we typically are not seeing when it comes to child rearing and childbearing and those circumstances where normally the mom gets an opportunity to hold the baby, connect with the baby,
00:18:18
Speaker
They call that the golden hour, you know, that time after and it's a, it's a positive and it helps the baby in so many ways and a healthy baby with our son as an example, my wife had a C-section so we didn't get to see him. We didn't get to hear him when he was born. We had no, he had no lung capacity to make a sound. So they rushed him to a next room and.
00:18:39
Speaker
They said, do you want to see your son? And my wife was obviously no, and no ability to do that. And I contemplated not doing it because I felt the guilt of my wife already being robbed of all the joys of being a parent, being pregnant, never got a baby shower, didn't even paint anything. You're so early. You're not prepared. Didn't get to do all the things and was living really more in the last few weeks of the pregnancy.
00:19:04
Speaker
so many ups and downs and uncertainties if she would even be able to carry the child. So I'm robbing her yet again of a first that she's going to look forward to and every mom looks forward to. And the dad being able to see the baby first, that's not common. You know, you don't see that very often. And part of me said, I just don't want to rob her. But the other part of me was, you know, what if this was the last time and I don't know what's going to happen. Because when you're thrown into that situation,
00:19:31
Speaker
And your son's 15 weeks early or and you don't know any of the stats. What even looks like I I had no clue what a child like that small look like no clue if I thought he would be underdeveloped. He would look like he had been informed.
00:19:46
Speaker
limbs completely. Yeah, I mean, there's still so much to do. So I really in my mind, I had this completely scary scenario that I was trying to keep to myself. So I got a chance to see him, I got a chance to go down and see him in the NICU. And then at the same time, in those experiences, the dad is often communicating back to mom, how the baby's doing, we're typically in reverse.
00:20:09
Speaker
You know, the mom might be keeping the dad up. What's going on? Maybe the dad goes home with the other kids or just whatever. That's different situation. So the dynamic kind of shifts a little bit. And I find myself also having to take ownership leadership in the situation, having to take point on a lot of things with the medical care, the team.
00:20:28
Speaker
be able to be up there around rounds with the doctor so that my wife could really just focus on being a mom and not focus on all that stuff. And I think that was an important piece to be able to help be a part of the care and be impactful at that point when I felt like I really wasn't able to be. And a lot of it was also being scared. I've been scared out of my mind for her, for him. But again, you're not showing that. You're trying to be cool, calm and collected because
00:20:57
Speaker
your baby and your wife, they feed off that emotion. So if you're able to keep that emotion in check, even if you're crying in the bathroom, even if you're screaming in your car, whatever you're doing away from everybody else to get you through that moment of that day, that's fine. But at the end of the day, when you walk through that door, when she sees you and you're coming back, you need to be able to have everything in check.
00:21:22
Speaker
so that she feels that and she's comfortable. And if she's comfortable, that's going to portray onto the baby and the babies can pick up on that emotion because when you hold them, especially there, I could see the numbers and the stats on the monitor up and down. And when I had anxiety,
00:21:39
Speaker
And when I was scared, it reflected
Emotional Impact on NICU Babies
00:21:41
Speaker
in that. His numbers would dwindle. When I was feeling great and happy, his numbers were never higher than it ever been before, which again goes back to the importance of skin to skin contact and the importance of dads being involved in that as much as moms and having that impact on them and holding them and being part of the care because it does help them so much with their development. And I think
00:22:04
Speaker
That's an opportunity that not a lot of men get to take part in. And there are some positives to being in those situations because, you know, you're never meant to see a baby born that early, but you get to see this baby develop and grow in ways nobody else has. And you develop an appreciation.
00:22:22
Speaker
And you said before, you know, I would know and I'm glad you don't know that. I don't want anybody to feel like, oh, you know, I'm taking it for granted. I'm glad that you don't have that feeling because I don't want anyone to sit there and say I'm guilty about it. I appreciate what I have. I appreciate it even more.
00:22:41
Speaker
And hopefully other people realize and listen and say, you know, I appreciate it too because because you're going to have those days where you're going to look at your kid and they're going to be a pain. But you're going to think back and say, you know, I remember when we were in the NICU or I remember hearing about a situation that a parent went through and I'm glad we didn't have to go through that. And you appreciate things a little bit better. And I think the NICU puts things into perspective in a very real way that you never thought possible.
00:23:08
Speaker
Yeah. What were some of the other because you've talked with men about this other dads and what are you mentioned scared and guilt? Is there like two or three other themes that you've noticed that you've heard like kind of repeated that kind of what was behind that calm cool and collected that guys were keeping in check some of those other kind of more difficult distressing emotions that you're like okay these are these are I'm seeing these repeated. Can you speak to a couple more of those?
00:23:33
Speaker
I think for dads, some of the other emotions, they kind of tie into guilt. It's finding the balance. I think there's also the guilt of having to go back to work. A lot of guys, a lot of men have to go back to work because they might be the primary provider. They might be on the insurance and baby can't survive without the insurance. So I've got to go back to work and mom might stay there and be with the baby all day long.
00:24:00
Speaker
and then you're coming in maybe a few hours a day if you're lucky, depending on the situation. I've had dads that work a 12 hour day, drive an hour and a half to the NICU at night to spend 45 minutes to drive back home and start it all over. So it's the guilt of that because you're wondering if not spending enough time is the reason why they're not going to improve. And God forbid something happens, you always have that in the back of your mind, like, was I not invested enough? And I think that's a big part of that is
00:24:29
Speaker
you know, trying to find the balance that we have to be able to be there to be as a provider to be there for our partner to balance the baby's needs. And then at some point along the way, find out how to balance your needs. And I think, you know, guilt just plays a large portion of that. I think, you know, anger plays a part in it to being angry at life, being angry at the situation, being angry,
00:24:55
Speaker
when other parents are able to come home before you. And that's a normal one. And I kind of talked to a lot of people about that. It's okay to be jealous and to be angry sometimes in the moment. You have to be able to sit back and say, you know what, God bless them that they're able to go home. And I hope that's going to be us soon. And I know another family is probably going to look at us when we leave and do the same thing.
00:25:20
Speaker
And it's a repetitive cycle that we all go through. And that's a big part of what I also talk with parents about and dads and moms. It's okay to feel that. You're not a bad person. You're not a horrible person for feeling like, why can't my son or daughter who's been here for three months longer
00:25:37
Speaker
Go home and this baby doesn't have to because everyone has their own their own They're fighting their own battles and often we find out that a lot of these other babies that go home earlier Yeah, they can breathe they can do other stuff and yeah, they're they're good to go home but a lot of times you'll find out that they have a lot of ailing and
00:25:56
Speaker
diseases, issues that are far worse that you can't see that are under the surface and they have a much longer journey ahead of them. So you have to be thankful for all that as well. So there's so many emotions that go into it. It's so much balance that you're trying to find. It's such a hard, it's such a hard thing to do is to find the balance in everything and not lose yourself and not lose your cool. And I think for the most part, men do a pretty good job of it.
00:26:25
Speaker
But what they don't do a great job is they don't talk to other people about it. And they don't talk to friends or family. They may never talk about it out loud. And I think women sometimes look at that and say, well, he wasn't that invested or he was too, you know, how could he be so callous? And in reality,
00:26:47
Speaker
they compartmentalize a lot and they just don't process it. And sometimes it just takes them years to do so. And that's one thing I do encourage dads to do is talk to somebody about it. Even if you don't think you need it, you know, talk to somebody that's been through it. Talk to a therapist, talk to a family friend, somebody. Well, you mentioned it sounds, you know, I know you served in the military. It kind of sounds like the NICU is in a way is like a battlefield. Oh, most definitely.
00:27:12
Speaker
So how does that relate then? And what are some similarities between NICU and Battlefield that you could say, yeah, this is definitely similar here.
NICU Environment and Emotional Coping
00:27:21
Speaker
There's overlap between these two.
00:27:23
Speaker
Well, I think, you know, with the military and the NICU, they're very regimented. So, you know, with the hospitals, you definitely have a regiment of, you know, this gets done, this gets done by the book every hour, and it's very regimented that way, where your nurses and doctors are treating them, and they might react to certain things and medications, but overall,
00:27:44
Speaker
the day kind of is the same day every single time. Regiment, regiment, regiment. You know, you have doctors and nurses that are working hard just like in the military and the battlefield. You have doctors and nurses trying to keep, you know, everyone alive. They're triaging. They're trying to go to this baby, to that baby. And, you know, there's times where it's very chaotic.
00:28:02
Speaker
You know, things are going off, everything's going off around you, and you've just got to figure out what can I impact immediately right now, what's right in front of me, and then kind of work your way back from there. And I guess a lot of what the military taught me is being able to compartmentalize situations, high stress. And I think that helped a lot in the NICU, but a lot of people don't have that ability.
00:28:27
Speaker
They don't maybe they have that skill set to do that. And for me, that allowed me to be able to process things a little bit different than the average person. So, you know, in the military, we use, you know, our sense of humor sometimes in very rough, horrible situations when we're dealing with death.
00:28:43
Speaker
We're dealing with injuries, you use humor, you use whatever means to be able to cope with that, and then and now, and then figure that stuff out later. But the military, I mean, it's definitely all about the regiment, and I think that was pretty much the NICU every single day.
00:29:02
Speaker
it felt like it was a repeat every single day. But the people that were there were truly amazing. And the doctors and the nurses, they saved so many people's lives and so many kids lives and they give so many families a second chance. And many times just the first chance at life. And so I'm thankful to them. I can't thank them enough. I can't give enough thanks to them for
00:29:27
Speaker
What they did because there were so many times where we thought it was just going to be the end for our son And and that was going to be it and unfortunately or fortunately that wasn't the case But there are a lot of families unfortunately have to deal with that loss and it's very painful And yeah, yeah, you know I would want to be in their shoes, and I don't envy them in any situation at all
00:29:47
Speaker
Yeah, I wouldn't either. And as you're talking about too with the military, all the alarms going off, it's like you're in constant survival mode. Like what does this mean? Almost like is this a threat? Is this safe threat? It's a danger. It's fight or flight. Yes, you're constantly fight or flight or numbing or disconnecting to survive and the compartmentalization. And you had this training to probably helped you kind of better navigate that because you're in a way have been trained to, like you said, military. I know about military training is that they do, they teach you how to
00:30:15
Speaker
handle fight or flight essentially to navigate that by compartmentalization, which is a skill set. And now for a short break. So if you're looking for ways to support the show and my YouTube channel, head on over to buy me a copy.com forward slash therapy for dads. There you can make a one time donation or join the monthly subscription service to support all that I'm doing at the intersection of fatherhood and mental health. And all the proceeds go right back into all the work that I'm doing into production, into
00:30:45
Speaker
continue to grow the show to bring on new guests. So again head on over to buymeacoffee.com forward slash therapy for dads. Thanks and let's get back to the show. Now to flip that while compartmentalization and survival mode in NICU is part of I think just navigating it.
Transition from Survival to Healing
00:31:03
Speaker
You mentioned something and this is then when I think where you came in to really see the gaps of service especially for men is that okay well now what you know okay so
00:31:13
Speaker
we got through it or we're in it but how do we get out of compartmentalization and survival but get from here to then actually like healing and restoration and processing. So let's pivot here. So what were some of the things that you are seeing you kind of hinted earlier that this is actually what we need to do to kind of heal from this and move forward especially for men or here's some services I see that we need to provide
00:31:36
Speaker
for men and not just for women too, but specifically like there's something that's missing for men. And so what are some of those things that you're doing and are some of those areas that we need to improve in?
00:31:45
Speaker
So first and foremost, the areas that we kind of need to improve in, there's just not a lot of services in hospitals for parents and a lot of times in general, whether it's funding, whether whatever it may be. Sometimes there are local organizations and nonprofits in an area that fill those gaps in. There's a bunch of them that I've affiliated with, I've become really good friends with, and I always try to share that with parents, whether they help nationally, they help worldwide,
00:32:13
Speaker
Maybe they serve as a small community in a different part all throughout the United States. So I try to direct them there. And just a lot of them have these are parents that have built a nonprofit and understood a gap and said, we don't have stuff for parents. Maybe it's care packages. Maybe it's financial assistance. Maybe it's peer to peer networks where they can talk with parents. So some of them have set that up. But we're not quite there. We have a large enough network. And I think the peer to peers is
00:32:40
Speaker
is twofold is important because not only are you helping somebody else, but you're also processing going through giving back and I think it helps repair you mentally to be able to help somebody else that doesn't need going through that same situation. So I think that's a very important piece and I do encourage people when they're comfortable
00:32:59
Speaker
to potentially do that as a way to give back, to mentor a family, to talk to them, maybe because you didn't have that as well. But with men especially, there's very little that targets them in general from even the non-profits. I work with a number of them and they start small. They've got one meeting maybe a month. They've got one every few months. And we as men, we're busy, we're working. Try to get us to go to a once a month meeting and maybe we would get that.
00:33:27
Speaker
you're probably not going to be able to do that. So I've just found that a lot of the focus online on social media, it's moms and understandably so. They've got a lot of things going on. Just not a lot of stuff is focused on dads. Not a lot of people are talking about dads and not a lot of people are talking about how they can impact in a positive way, what they might need. And I think one of the things that I've been trying to do is, is talk about that, whether it's on podcasts, whether it's talking about it on Instagram,
00:33:55
Speaker
on lives where it's just myself talking with other people. I've talked with other dads and had them come on and share that and provide an insight into what men are feeling and going through different parts in the journey.
Men's Mental Health and Support
00:34:08
Speaker
And hopefully that opens up eyes to organizations, hospitals, even the wives of these husbands being able to say, oh my God, is that what my husband is feeling? He's never articulated to me,
00:34:23
Speaker
There's been three or four dads and I'm watching and I'm listening to this podcast now. And he's talking about all these things that I just never really thought were possible. And now they're able to go back and have those conversations with them and say, were you feeling guilt? Were you feeling anger? It's okay now to talk about that. I appreciate you being so strong during that period, but maybe let's have that conversation.
00:34:45
Speaker
and maybe it opens it up a little bit. And hopefully down the road we will have more focus and maybe more men will take part of that. And I think the other part of that, the other side is that we've got to encourage men to, once the lifeline is thrown out to you, once the resource is there, take it.
00:35:02
Speaker
there are so many men that will not take the resource. And you know all too well that it's hard sometimes to get men to talk about their feelings and to be vulnerable. That's something that we fight every day to like, nope, I don't need to be vulnerable. But it's important to do that. What's the barrier that you, you know, why'd you say that? I don't want to talk about it because why?
00:35:22
Speaker
I think I was kind of the exception with that. I didn't mind talking about it because one of the things I realized early with my wife is it was important to communicate and to be able to share with her what I was feeling. So if I had a hard day, I just would look at her and say, listen, I'm going to be the rock for you every single day, but today you need to be it just today. And that communication piece is so critical, but it doesn't happen with most couples.
00:35:50
Speaker
So what do you hear a lot of men saying, like, what's one big reason why they don't want to talk about their emotions that you've heard from? It could be it's a lot of its upbringing, you know, their parents, their dad, the same way that they were grown up, maybe it's their job, you know, maybe they work in a field that's, you know, very demanding physically, you know, we're talking about your feelings as seen as a weakness.
00:36:09
Speaker
So, you know, if you're a military firefighter, you're working in construction, I mean, just imagine the number of fields. You know, again, it's one of those things where you got to kind of break the stigma and it's okay. Like you're in a very unique situation. Even those guys will understand if you talk to somebody about that and you're getting it off your chest. I don't think they'll fault you for that. But I think there's a plethora and I think it's unique to every man. But for whatever the reason, and you know all too well, there are so many reasons why guys will just not talk about it.
00:36:38
Speaker
I think just the main thing is they don't want to feel weak and they don't want to give in and say, if I give you anything, it's going to be used against me. I mean, there's so many rationale to why we don't talk about things. We don't share things. We feel it's going to be used against us in some capacity.
00:36:55
Speaker
maybe not this situation, but I think a lot of men look at that and say, nope, I'm not giving you any ammunition to talk about this or bring this up. But at the end of the day, it's important for them, their mental health and their relationship. If you don't communicate, you don't get the mental health, you can, and you don't get the necessary resources. You can't be a good dad and you can't be a good partner, you know, and that's the important part. When you're not taking care of yourself, everything in your life falls, by the way, aside your job,
00:37:25
Speaker
your interest, your health. And I just think that more dads need to take ownership of that. And they also need to take ownership that they can be impactful in many more ways than they realize. And by doing that, it's a sign of strength and a sign of...
00:37:41
Speaker
Conforming to gender roles or not conforming to gender roles, I think I've seen plenty of big burly tattoo guys with a little tiny baby on their chest and come out of it and said, you know what? I can do this. I can be part of their care. And they became better parents, I think, out of it because they had to do so much more of it.
00:38:01
Speaker
in a very adverse environment and they appreciate things a little bit more differently than the average person. So, you know, the NICU can be something that can be positive depending on how you look at it and where you're at in your journey as well. Yeah, definitely a perspective that I don't think a lot of people would understand, right? Is that it can be positive in the sense of you could take away something that a learning experience or if you're a guy like, wow, this is actually important to connect and be emotional and vulnerable and actually how this helps my child or my partner or
00:38:31
Speaker
Right, and going to what you said earlier too, if we don't talk about these things, if we don't care for ourselves, if we don't ever address the trauma of what we experienced, it doesn't go away. It comes out in our job and our partnership or relationships or with our kids that it just, it just, or affects, you know, our friendships, it affects ourselves, right? Just day to day, like it starts to affect everything. And so we need that.
00:38:57
Speaker
Some of that is by creating resources because there really isn't enough, right? It's like once a month. So you were saying we need more resources in the hostel, we need groups, we need mentors like guys have been through it to mentor other guys to be there to listen who have gone through the experience. Is there any other resources that you're thinking or needing that you're doing that I think we could change in our system?
00:39:18
Speaker
I think, you know, the resource material, I think hospitals could be more focused on bringing in the dad involved in the care.
Involving Fathers in NICU Care
00:39:26
Speaker
And from that perspective, when the social workers are there, when the nurse is there, and that's one thing I've done quite a bit of is talk with a lot of nurses and healthcare workers.
00:39:36
Speaker
especially those that kind of follow me on social media and with the things I do, is to let them say, hey, bring the dad in. Pull him in. Even if the dad's sitting in the back, let him get involved. Ask him if he has any questions. And even when mom walks away, hey, how are you doing? Just check in with them. How's everything doing? Those little things that you can do. As men, I don't think we need as much. The little things are what matter to us a lot of times the most. We don't need
00:40:03
Speaker
constant check-ins every single time. Some people do. I think it's the little things that people do that mean the most to us and it just gets us through those points. What does it mean when a nurse checks in on a dad? What does that communicate, do you think, for you or for the men you've talked with?
00:40:19
Speaker
I think when they check in with the data, it means that they're invested in not only their child, but the entire family dynamic. And it's important because when you're there, especially if you're going to be there for a long period of time, that staff becomes to be like family. You get to know them, they get to know you.
00:40:37
Speaker
and you can't help but have a dynamic like that. So I think for me, I've had nurses that got me through a lot of things and pulled me aside or just knew I was gonna break down. I was having one of those days and would say, hey, can you help me grab something out of the closet? And they didn't need help, but they just gave me an help to be able to walk away, to break down a little bit away from things and come back to the situation. I've had doctors that have talked to me one-on-one, pulled me aside and said,
00:41:06
Speaker
know, how's everything doing? Is there anything we can do? And then there's been others that, you know, really didn't care to talk too much about that. And I think everyone's different. I think you can change the perspective a little bit at a time, doctors and nurses and how they do things. And I think there is, you know, there's more we can do. But I think you just change a little bit at a time, the more people you talk to, the more people you communicate kind of what
00:41:31
Speaker
is going on in these situations. Maybe they weren't aware of that. Maybe that's something they're not talking about. They're not teaching in health care. They've got so much going on. So I think you can educate a little bit of people and maybe they pay it forward. And they mentioned that, you know, hey, during rounds today, let's make sure we're checking in with both parents.
00:41:49
Speaker
And those are little ancillary things we can do, progressively change. Rome wasn't built in a day, you know? And again, I think the piece is just to make sure that we're also encouraging men to talk with their partners as well.
00:42:04
Speaker
and to be able to be open with them and to communicate with them when the time's right. It may not be in the NICU and maybe when you get home a few months later and say, you know, I've been holding some things in, can we talk? And you should be able to talk with your partner because that's the person that you love the most. You value to spend your life with them. If you can't communicate with them,
00:42:26
Speaker
You've got other problems, but I think you should be able to communicate and just say I want you to know it's been really hard Here's what I've been struggling with and I just want you to know that if I've been presenting as moody or angry or depressed It's just I've been trying to keep it in to be good for you But I also realized that that's not healthy either and a lot of times women and and and wives will say oh my god I'm glad you told me that because I've been I've been wondering and now I know it's not me now. I know it's I
00:42:56
Speaker
you've just been trying to hold it all in for me or for our family and they're more than happy to take the load off of you and allow you to do maybe a few more things for yourself. And I think men have to also do that is take more time for yourself to do the little things that make you happy. You know, you got to find what makes you happy and joyful. Yeah, your kids are going to do that. Like your job might do that. Your wife might do that. But at the end of the day, like find a little passion in your life.
00:43:24
Speaker
And you got to continue to nurture that. And I don't think we do that. I think we just kind of let it fall by the wayside and we stay in that fight or flight mode way longer than we need to be.
00:43:33
Speaker
Right, right, and then that does have, well, I'm not gonna say it always, but it can and often has detrimental effects if we don't, if we're staying in that fight flight, shut down, freeze state too long, it starts to eat away at other things. And as we kind of start to close up, there's another resource that we haven't talked about, which I think is a really, really awesome resource, something that while you've created, so can you kind of share this resource that you have done and are currently doing?
Adam's NICU-Inspired Children's Books
00:44:02
Speaker
What is that?
00:44:03
Speaker
Well, I've written three books over the last couple of years and I've children's books on prematurity and the NICU. So my first book actually was in response to being in the NICU reading to my son countlessly because it has such a positive effect, but realizing I didn't see any stories. I looked on Google, I searched, there's nothing for pre-me as your NICU families.
00:44:24
Speaker
And the stuff that was out there was really more journaling, which does help. So when we were home with COVID and all stuck in there, the idea really was to create something that would be funny. So I kind of initially created my social media account, premium adventures.
00:44:40
Speaker
And it started out with sharing funny things, creating funny things. And then other parents said, I love that. I mean, we were just talking about this the other day. And that kind of blossomed into, well, maybe I should write a book about what we went through, but also it be funny and about celebrating the wins, the milestones, the good things in life that are unique to people that have preemie children. So I wrote our preemie adventure.
00:45:04
Speaker
And it's a celebration of dedication to my son. It's dedication to every family that is out there. It's a way for you to say, here's what you have to look forward to.
00:45:14
Speaker
here's the wins that you're gonna celebrate that are so unique to you that you can laugh at, you can share, you can read to your child over and over in the NICU, which is a positive. And then also you can look back later on and say, you know what? I'm not thinking about the bad days. I'm thinking about the day we came off this machine or the day we got to finally put on our first outfit.
00:45:36
Speaker
where we got to take our first bath or take our first bottle or see their child without all the things on their face. And just so many unique things that you don't really think about, but then you read it. And it's also in a way that a child can look at it. So when the child gets older, they can look at it and say, this is what your journey was. And it's an adventure. It's exciting. It's fun. It's funny.
00:45:57
Speaker
And I think it's something that all parents can get. And as a result of doing that, I found somebody on social media who wanted to partner with me, a doctor, a neonatologist, a doctor. He found me and he said, listen, I love educating families, but I see a huge gap. So this past year, you know, I partnered together. We wrote two other books. One's called Our Respiratory Adventure, a NICU jury, a NICU story. And it talks about, again, in a funny way, but also an educational way with a doctor.
00:46:26
Speaker
kind of on the bottom of each pays and talks about in very layman's terms, what are the machines that they're using to treat your baby? You know, why are we giving your baby as an example, caffeine? We give babies caffeine to help with their lungs and to keep them with breathing. We give them steroids. Well, why are we giving them steroids? And again, it's from the perspective of the parent, how we see the NICU in a funny way, how I perceive the different things that I saw, how a lot of other families do that I talk to. So it's a way to be able to celebrate
00:46:55
Speaker
them as well. It's a healthcare workers opportunity to educate parents in a very easy, digestible way, because they get overwhelmed. So now they can read it to their baby, they can, they can sit there and look at it and say,
00:47:08
Speaker
Now I know what this is and I'm not confused and I'm not getting confused when I'm talking with doctors. And it's been wonderful to do that and to partner with somebody who's passionate about that. And it's, there's nothing like it out there. There's no doctors and parents writing books together. And then we decided to write a Christmas book as well. So we wrote a NICU Christmas adventure and it just really, and that's again, family's all over and it's about three kids who they have siblings that are in the NICU.
00:47:35
Speaker
Some are preemie, some are not and they write to Santa and Santa helps them get their little, you know, brothers and sisters home and have a Christmas miracle. So it's, so many families celebrate so many holidays and in the NICU and it's so hard to be there. So I wanted that to be something as well that you could read your kids around the holidays, your family there.
00:47:56
Speaker
You know, it's something that I always wanted to write because I love the holidays. And it was great to be able to write that again with Dr. Fort and to be able to give back. So we plan to write many more books. I have two or three books already kind of in the works now. And it's really going to be about helping families to be seen, be sharing on the adventure together, to be able to say, you know, you have hope. And I think that's something that's very lacking.
00:48:21
Speaker
And I think it's good to be able to see that there's a dad that's out there writing stuff for things I think that's a space you don't see a lot of dads and people doing they're not writing things for children's books so I think I get a lot of positive reviews from moms and dads and people that are just like
00:48:38
Speaker
This is wonderful and it's inspired a lot of people to start writing their own books and sharing their own stories and I'm happy to be able to share those as well and encourage others because I think it's great to have now so many more resources than we had five years ago and hopefully in 10 years a family that goes through that will have a plethora of books that they can go through.
00:48:59
Speaker
that they can read to their kid, that they can not feel alone, they can have 10 times the more resources and be feel supported. And I think that's really what it's about is to be able to say, you know, we went through this hard, difficult time in our life. It was so challenging. And I questioned God and why all this was happening. And then I realized the last few years, my purpose was to one,
00:49:23
Speaker
Raises amazing human being and to get a chance to do that but two is to take that experience and to pay it forward and help others because I did get a second chance and Every day that I'm able to do that I'm thankful for that because it's an opportunity to help another parent out and It makes sense of the situation like you never sometimes you we never get an opportunity in our entire life to realize why something traumatic or difficult that happened to us and a lot of people say well I
00:49:52
Speaker
It happened for a reason or it's God's will or God works in mysterious ways. And for one of the few times in my life, I was able to say, that's the mysterious way. He had me go through all this stuff, endure all this stuff so that eventually I could help other people and to be able to be an advocate for parents and especially for dads to be able to say,
00:50:14
Speaker
Get involved, be a dad, be an advocate, get the help you need and be able to move forward in your journey. I think that's really the important part. Every person I'm able to assist in some small way, it just makes it that much better. It pushes me that much more to really advocate and talk and hopefully more and more dads will. My hope is that in a while, there'll be thousands of men talking about this and everybody will know about
00:50:42
Speaker
what it's like for preemies and NICU families and maybe they'll give and they'll donate and they'll help and you know more positives will come from it. Yeah well they'll be seen. Isolation won't be a thing. They'll be support and they'll know that it's okay to compartmentalize at times when it's needed and times to actually be open with other men and get support and be honest right and humor and taking care of like all those things you just said and
00:51:09
Speaker
I think it's so great that you're doing that and then really feeling like in a very unique artistic way a need within the kind of like this this world of people that live and have gone through the NICU and be able to have a resource that is accessible.
00:51:26
Speaker
And then creating these other resources too with communities and organizations to say, hey, we need to support men in this. Men need to get involved, even talking to the nurses or doctors. Hey, ask dad how he's doing. Dads need to be checked in. They need to be part of it. And so I think what you're doing is so beyond amazing. And so if people wanted to find what you're doing, if they need your resources, how can we find you? How do we can contact?
00:51:49
Speaker
Well, you can on social media on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, you can find me at premium adventures, or you can check out premium adventures.com. You can not only find the books there, but on premium adventures.com. I have hundreds of resources every time I find a nonprofit or resource, somebody volunteers a book, a podcast that's all on there. Just like this podcast will be on there. I add those on so that
00:52:14
Speaker
Parents will have a one-stop resource, and if they want to add a resource, they have an organization where something that might benefit, they can reach out to me at ourpremiedventures.gmail.com or through premiedventures.com. They can message me through their social media, and I'm happy to add that if that gets going to help some parent out there that get the resources they need.
00:52:33
Speaker
No, I think that's so good. I think it's just not knowing where to go, where to start. And yours is like a major signpost. You offer resources yourself, but also, hey, here's all the other stuff that I've been looking into across the US or even the world of things that I know about to start with. And I think that's such a helpful thing for parents.
00:52:54
Speaker
Where do I go? I don't know what to do. Where do I look? So I think that's so good. So everyone's going to be in the show notes. There'll be clickable links, hyperlinks to take you to Adam's site, to all of his socials. Reach out to him. He's a great guy. Say hi. If you need help, he will point you in the right direction. He clearly, clearly cares about this. This is his heart, like you said. This experience,
00:53:19
Speaker
I, not that I don't think bad experiences are ever intended, but I think we can take something that's like suffering and turn it into a purpose and turn it into kind of our drive for living. And like you said, time and time again to pay it forward, which what I'm hearing your hearts all about is to really to help others and say, wow, I'm taking this awful, awful, terrifying, scary, isolated experience coming out of this. I now have this
00:53:42
Speaker
perspective and mission in life to help those to make ease their suffering even a little bit and hopefully 10, 20, 50, 100 years down the road, this will continue to grow and kind of be a legacy. So Adam, I thank you so much. And I just wish you just continued blessing and strength and doors opening and encouraging all those things to keep doing just what an important work that you're doing. So thank you and have a wonderful night. Thank you. I appreciate it, Travis.
00:54:13
Speaker
Thanks for joining and listening today. Please leave a comment and review the show. Dads are tough, but not tough enough to do this fatherhood thing alone.