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Episode 1: Dexter vs. Hannibal Lecter — Plastic Wrap & Fava Beans
62 Plays2 months ago
The tournament kicks off with a truly twisted showdown: two blood-soaked masterminds, one cold table. In this corner, Dexter Morgan — the neat freak forensic tech with a moonlighting habit for murder. And in the other, Dr. Hannibal Lecter — the high-society cannibal who dines with elegance and dismembers with flair.
We break down their tactics, temperaments, and table manners — but only ONE can advance!
Plus: Surprise, MFs — we even get into the highbrow stuff like tucking, boners, and murder with flair.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:07
Speaker
This is the fictional fighting championship podcast, the ultimate battleground where Hollywood's deadliest warriors collide. We're taking 48 of the most ruthless skilled and battle-hardened fighters from movies and TV and throwing them into a no-holds-bar tournament to see who survives.
00:00:26
Speaker
You've seen the movies, you know the legends. Now it's time to settle the score.
Humorous Recurrence and Podcast's Success
00:00:50
Speaker
Tonight's the night. And
00:00:54
Speaker
and it's going to happen again and again. Has to happen.
00:01:04
Speaker
Can you guys think of a better intro? Creepy. For our very first episode than that.
00:01:11
Speaker
These episodes are going to come back again and again and again. This is also what our wives are saying right now. Yeah. Except with a question mark at the end. Again.
00:01:23
Speaker
You're doing this again. It's unsuccessful and it's making you no money. What are you doing?
First Matchup: Dexter vs. Hannibal
00:01:31
Speaker
All right, listen. we Hey, we can't... this is This is a great matchup. Look, we have 48 absolute killers in this tournament, and our listeners don't even know who they are yet. ah We barely know who they are, but there's 48 absolute killers in this thing.
00:01:45
Speaker
And for a first-round matchup in our first episode, I can't think of two more disturbing and, like i don't know, methodical minds in this entire tournament. So kick it off. Let's recap
Nostalgia for Dexter Series
00:01:58
Speaker
this thing here. We have Dexter Morgan.
00:02:00
Speaker
the Bay Harbor butcher. Uh, this guy's whole life is about blood. He, he works and plays in blood. And then on the other side, we have a Hannibal Lecter, um, like a brilliant cannibalistic doctor. I, this one is going to be a great one.
00:02:17
Speaker
And, uh, on a scale of one to 10, how pumped up are you guys? Like at least an 11. That intro brought back some memories for me for sure. Nostalgia.
00:02:29
Speaker
feelings of nostalgia, uh, watching the series. Um, I definitely binged watched it like towards the end. I don't think I was watching weekly, but, uh, I was definitely hooked.
00:02:41
Speaker
So what was it weekly? Is that, was this a weekly Dexter? It was weekly at some point. Yeah. Cause it was showtime. Yeah. so it, you know, it was during the period where I think those, you know, showtime and HBO and all of that had those, you know, it was before streaming. Right.
00:02:58
Speaker
Yeah. So, it They were definitely bringing those episodes out weekly on like you know the weekends on Friday, Saturday nights or whatever, or a Sunday night. remember all of those different shows you know on the um the cable networks being on a specific night and everyone getting really excited for them. Yeah.
00:03:15
Speaker
yeah Jordan, do either of these resonate? Any big memories before we get rolling here? I'm going to say Hannibal Lecter. i've I've always been a big foodie, and so he really connects with me in that sense.
00:03:29
Speaker
It's a great ah way for the listeners to get to know you. They both love the finer things in life. Liver and Chianti.
00:03:41
Speaker
we'll get We'll get to that, I promise. okay I'm really surprised you said that because you're not that creepy in real life. so like I think people are going to get the wrong message here. Okay.
Betting Odds and Name Recognition
00:03:52
Speaker
Hey, I wanted to cover one thing right at the beginning. Before researching, you know obviously all three of us are researching these these matchups before the episodes and all that, but before any research, um try I think maybe we should try to come up with some odds.
00:04:08
Speaker
and Here's what I was thinking before my research is that, you know, based on, you know, Dexter versus Hannibal Lecter, this and that, I feel like Hannibal has a little bit higher recognition and I would put the odds that like if you're going to bet on this in Vegas, a very, very slight edge for Hannibal Lecter based on that. That's what that's ah coming into this. That's what I thought now, not to say I haven't changed my mind, but that's my thought.
00:04:39
Speaker
um Maybe like a minus one 15, like that close. What do you think? I agree. i think he's more widely known among, you know, society.
00:04:51
Speaker
It's kind of like ah cult sort of following in a way or like, you know people's knowledge of it of him it's been around longer and yeah it's one of those films you know those horror films or i don't know if you want to call it a horror thriller that uh has been around so long and it's ingrained like you know it's sound bites and all of that and and the mask and everything so i think people would choose him and they you know he seems more he seems definitely
00:05:22
Speaker
more insane than Dexter. And I think the popularity has something to do with it. Like, ah like Conor McGregor, no matter who he fights, he's going to be considered a favorite just because he has so many fans. Like they bet on him. That's how betting works, right? It's who's betting on who.
00:05:35
Speaker
going to say hard disagree here. So even though Hannibal Lecter is maybe known by more people at an absolute surface level, the kind of people who know anything about these characters whatsoever, I feel like are more familiar with Dexter, like more people have binge watched Dexter than have been watched the Hannibal TV show or the Hannibal Lecter, know, Silence of the Lambs, something like that.
00:05:56
Speaker
So I think of people who are even slightly into it, they're going to give it to Dexter, but people who know absolutely nothing about it are just going to go off the name recognition. So for that's for that, I'm going to trust the enthusiast here and I'm going to give it to Dexter.
Dexter's Praises and Critiques
00:06:17
Speaker
So let's let's get into it. Let's talk first just about the the cultural aspect of it here. We'll start with Dexter. Like you said, Chris, it was Showtime. And of course, it was weekly.
00:06:27
Speaker
I'm looking at it right now, 2006 to 2013. So definitely a weekly on Showtime. um Where is it set? It's set in Miami at present day. I don't i think it if it was in 2006, that's when it was. It seemed to be you know modern times.
00:06:45
Speaker
I have to say, Miami in 2006 to 2013, probably a lot more serial killers than I would have ever guessed. I guess, you know, you're definitely picking out plot holes here. It's like, how does this, how does this keep happening every season? i don't know if people have watched murder only murders in the building, but yeah.
00:07:07
Speaker
Same. So a concept was like, how is this still happening? Definitely. So we'll get to all that. Let's talk ah critical feedback at the time. Pretty much positive.
00:07:17
Speaker
um the The seasons one, three, four, and seven seem to get a lot of praise and kind of the highest, highest reviews. And um in terms of accolades and whatnot, Michael C. Hall was nominated five times for an evy Emmy. He never won, but he was nominated five times.
00:07:35
Speaker
And, um, you know, when you talk about that, you probably have to mention that the final season is pretty much widely considered among the absolute worst endings of all time. So while we probably won't have to pick on that too much, I do have to mention it.
00:07:49
Speaker
Fun fact, Deborah Dexter sister said, fuck 996 times over eight seasons.
00:08:00
Speaker
Wow. So does she win the potty mouth award? Potty mouth award, 100%. Here's another fun fact. Jeremy Renner turned down this role.
00:08:12
Speaker
And the reason is because he had just played Jeffrey Dahmer and he didn't want to be typecast as a serial killer. Oh, he played Jeffrey Dahmer. Weird.
00:08:22
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it does feel like these types of roles ended up, you know, with the actor staying in them for a long period of time and probably being typecast for the remainder of their career. Other ones I can think of, for example, are ah Lost.
00:08:45
Speaker
um I loved Lost. ah Right around the same time as Dexter as well. It was coming out weekly, but I feel like you hardly saw are any of the actors from that season go on to do other things. And it was I feel like it was the same for Dexter as well.
00:09:00
Speaker
It would have had to change Marvel, right? I don't know if you can Jeremy Renner could be in both of these I know. Yeah. True. Jeremy Renner is great as a Hawkeye. Yeah. All right. Let's switch to Lecter.
00:09:13
Speaker
Two fun facts before we start this breakdown. and and and And if you guys have any, fine. Anthony Hopkins, best actor, had only 16 minutes of screen time.
00:09:24
Speaker
Wow. That's wild. Pretty crazy. And I love this one. Do you know the the famous line where he says, hello, Clarice? Everybody talks about that. Everybody knows about it.
00:09:36
Speaker
Yep. He never said it. What do you mean? He never said hello, Clarice, in the entire franchise. Like we all made it up like some kind of Mandela effect thing? Mandela, yeah.
00:09:47
Speaker
Cool. Yeah. ah
00:09:58
Speaker
All right, let's break this thing down. All right, guys. You know, we have to find a winner by the end of this show. So let's talk about their battle resume, the types of enemies that they're that they're going after. And we'll start with Dexter.
00:10:11
Speaker
Any thoughts on the types of victims that Dexter's firing out there? Well,
Victim Choice: Dexter vs. Hannibal
00:10:20
Speaker
there's certainly, you know, he goes after other serial killers.
00:10:23
Speaker
He goes after, you know, other law enforcement uh, professionals. So these are people that are skilled and knowledgeable, ah or just completely insane and ah certainly formidable opponents for sure. Uh, from what I know about, you know, Hannibal Lecter, he seems to go for people who are rude. I know that.
00:10:49
Speaker
Um, but you know, maybe his opponents are less difficult, I would say, ah you know, less, uh, of a worthy opponent than, than the ones that Dexter are going is going after.
00:11:02
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I feel like Dexter approaches it with a moral high ground for his enemies. He's already mentally defeated them because he sees them as less than him and undesirables for our society.
00:11:14
Speaker
I know the big thing is the, where's his dad, his foster dad, Harry, and he had the whole code of Harry that he followed about who and who he can't kill. And so I feel like that really weeded down the type of enemies to people that he was more searching out versus Hannibal Lecter.
00:11:29
Speaker
It felt like a lot of them were just people he encountered. So let's talk about that code rule. Number one, this is not the wedding crashers code. This is the code of Harry um rule. Number one, never get caught.
00:11:44
Speaker
So always has to cover your tracks. He's got it. He's got to do whatever it takes to not get caught above all else. Hmm. Rule number two, only kill those who deserve it. And this of course is the biggest part of the the code, right? he It's a legitimate code. He only should be killing ah people who deserve it. Killers who will likely kill again.
00:12:05
Speaker
Kind of an advantage for Dexter in this matchup, don't you think? That's his exact type is a Hannibal Lecter. Bingo. Yes. That's a great call. He's not just killing some jabronis. He's at killing actual killers, which that we have 48 of them in this in this thing.
00:12:22
Speaker
Um, he also has to blend in rule number three, he has to blend in and appear normal. So fake emotions. He has to pretend that he has emotions. He brings donuts in the mornings and things like that.
00:12:34
Speaker
And then the last one and pretty important, don't leave a trace. So this is also plays along with no impulsive kills. He can't just go nuts and kill somebody. He's gotta, he's gotta, um, actually set up his kill room so that he can have the plastic and do his whole, his whole process.
00:12:52
Speaker
Okay, um I don't know the answer to this, but how many like how many rolls of plastic wrap do you think he went through in the entire seasons of Dexter?
00:13:06
Speaker
I'm talking Costco size, because like every time you see his room there, it is just decked out. The person is wrapped 10 times. does he wash it down and reuse it? If you think he's very frugal, he reuses it.
00:13:21
Speaker
He also wants to save the environment. That's like part of his code.
00:13:26
Speaker
That's incredible. Oh yeah. He should buy it in bulk. Chris, There's not a lot of discussion of Dexter's actual skills and training or anything like that. They never do anything like that, that I, that I can see.
00:13:40
Speaker
um But to me, it seems like he has to have a minimum Brazilian jujitsu skills, right? I mean, he, he uses the rear naked choke a lot.
00:13:52
Speaker
Yep. He does have some skills. I saw him put like a little arm bar on dokes. So yeah, it's gotta be right. I mean, I was thinking about how you mentioned ah Anthony Hopkins only having 16 minutes of screen time.
00:14:07
Speaker
So we don't get to see a lot of what Hannibal Lecter is capable of, but we do have seven years worth of ah footage. um ah You know, not seven years total, but you know, seven years the series ran and we got to see multiple episodes of Dexter doing
Dexter's Skills vs. Hannibal's Experience
00:14:25
Speaker
his thing. And so I think his resume stacked up against Hannibal Lecter's is, you know, certainly above and beyond.
00:14:33
Speaker
yeah So, you know, yeah, like you said, he's been in multiple altercations ah with with bad guys of you know, whether it was his arch nemesis for the season or other people trying to track him down or whatever. And he's survived, you know, through seven seasons and and had to get out and and survive. So, yeah, I think we either was trained in that from a young age, or he learn he had to learn it from mistakes that he made.
00:15:04
Speaker
We've seen a lot more out of him. And i i would you know it seems as if Hannibal Lecter was the favorite ah going into it, I would think that you'd see quickly that Dexter could have a lot more skills at his disposal.
00:15:22
Speaker
I can see you're turning. I can see your you're you're turning a little bit. I think you hit the nail on the head too, that he was probably trained not in a traditional setting, but maybe by his dad who was teaching him all these skills.
00:15:33
Speaker
I think one piece of proof we can point to for this is had he actually gone to a jujitsu gym, he'd be telling everyone that he started doing jujitsu. Chris. Yep. yeah
00:15:44
Speaker
Question who humble brags more about themselves than People who do a Brazilian jiu-jitsu or vegans?
00:15:55
Speaker
ah I'm going to say jiu-jitsu.
00:15:59
Speaker
like Like eight years ago, it was vegans. And like now it's people who Brazilian jiu-jitsu. we're the We're the new vegans. the Yes, absolutely. Or the new CrossFit.
00:16:11
Speaker
Yeah, we're the new CrossFit. All right, preferred weapons. I mean, Dexter has a very methodical and regimented kill style. Hypodermic needle, he M99s him, and then he uses his knife set to finish the job.
00:16:28
Speaker
I mean, that's pretty much it, right? Let's run the gauntlet here about Dexter. um As we... As this becomes a regular thing, all our all our listeners will learn that we're going to run the gauntlet. Kind of quick hits, fun little categories and segments.
00:16:44
Speaker
Some are based in fact and to help us get to the winner and some are just more fun. So first the first one here, let's do our kill count segment.
00:16:56
Speaker
I want both of you guys to guess. I think I'm the only one that knows the kill count that Dexter has, uh, right now. So, um, I'll let you guys guess, and then we're going to keep a running tally here.
00:17:07
Speaker
This is on screen recognized on screen and confirmed kills. I'm going to throw out there. 60, six, zero. Okay. 60. sixty Chris, that's a lot. So you're looking at like 10 per season, roughly trying to do the math real quick in my head.
00:17:26
Speaker
I don't think it was 10 per season. I'm going to go with less. I'm going to say 45. Okay. okay All right. This is recognized on screen and confirmed kills.
00:17:40
Speaker
So with that in mind, You're both low because remember Dexter has a little, his little trophy case with all the slides in it. ah In season one, dokes found that thing and there were 40 slides in it.
00:17:55
Speaker
So we didn't see those kills, but they are confirmed. Now you'll know that's okay. Now you'll know for the next time that we're talking about kills that we know about, even if we didn't see them, they could be implied.
00:18:06
Speaker
That was smart though. Like, yeah, these are things that you don't necessarily pick up on there in the background that yeah know people will go onto forums and and discuss, you know, did you see that? Did you see this? This is what Reddit is all about.
00:18:19
Speaker
Yeah. What does this mean? I don't do any of that kind of stuff. So, but maybe I'll start to. So the winner is Jordan because the kill count, the recognized kill count for Dexter is 138.
00:18:32
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Keyboard carnage. This is just a fun one. I found this, you know how people are. They leave crazy, uh, user, uh, reviews, uh, on rotten tomatoes or, or, or whatnot. This is my favorite one quote.
00:18:47
Speaker
This is the absolute review. We don't need garbage likes like this. Watch a good show instead like Bonanza or Walt Disney's Zorro. did Did you write that? I feel like Bonanza is. I love the enthusiasm by that guy.
00:19:03
Speaker
ah All right. here's a Now, here's another segment we're going to do called they They've Gone Too Far. Now, neither of these characters, I feel like, really hit the real true meaning of what this segment is for.
00:19:17
Speaker
This is like, you know, imagine... Well, not to spoil anything, but Rambo. Dude should have been dead like 100 times, right? So the spirit of this category, I feel like neither neither guy really does this. But there is one that I'll have to bring up in the final season of Dexter.
00:19:36
Speaker
This fucking guy literally drove up boat into the eye of a hurricane carrying his dead sister's body.
00:19:45
Speaker
And five minutes later, he's like a lumberjack chopping down a tree up in upstate New York or something. ah For your collection, both of you guys, what from any Dexter episode or or show that you recall, if you had like ah a collection, like a little display case um and you and you had something from from the series, what would you want to display? You could show it off at parties and stuff.
00:20:09
Speaker
Mine and would be like, this is the restaurant supply receipt from the 10,000 cases of plastic wrap that he bought. This guy can't get over the plastic wrap. It's too much. it's a It's a legitimate concern.
00:20:21
Speaker
<unk> I'll tell you that. I'll give you that right now. It's a legitimate concern. What I think would be awesome, because I think it would look cool too, he had like a very nice, like a mahogany wooden box with the lid that popped up and it had all the little blood slides in it and all his trophies that of that for me would be the best one.
00:20:39
Speaker
I, a syringe would be cool too. Cause that would be more readily available. He used so many of them. Maybe there is something like that out there that we can, yeah yep we can buy. i thought I thought you were talking, um, hypothetically or like if you could take anything from any of the seasons and,
00:20:53
Speaker
and, or, you know frame it, what would it be? Mine would be, uh, dokes probably just because he was the funniest antagonist, you know, and eventually became one of the villains and the enemies, uh, later on down the line in the seasons. But definitely when he says, uh, surprise motherfucker, ah all but he he would, you know, the way he spoke the, his dialogue and like his delivery was hilarious and yeah he was i think he was a great antagonist so i don't know i'd have like a figurine of dokes probably it's pretty cool sitting in the shadow box hey can we say this about dokes everything he thought about dexter absolutely correct yeah yeah he was he was the good guy like that you know dexter was so the and anti-hero that's right so yeah they should have a spin-off series about dokes
00:21:44
Speaker
Yeah, he he had a real hunch there. That's like a classic cop hunch. Yeah, yeah. yeah All right. ah The next segment here um and in the gauntlet, the I'm calling it the Yippee-Ki-Yay Motherfucker segment.
00:21:58
Speaker
Love that segment name. Any favorite favorite quotes or one-liners? Again, not not a traditional one for Dexter where you kill somebody and then you spout off like ah a hilarious one-liner. Not a ton of those, but anything come to mind?
00:22:12
Speaker
I just Googled dokes Dexter quotes surprise motherfucker. Nice dokes.
00:22:24
Speaker
But I think we need, you know, that was dokes. We need something from Dexter. I, I, okay. Obviously we played at the beginning here. Tonight's the night. It's kind of a ah cool beginning to that whole, of that whole series. So that is pretty sweet.
00:22:37
Speaker
He has a very sultry voice yeah as well. Like he smooth, very noir. Yeah. Yeah, he's definitely played that role really well.
00:22:55
Speaker
All right. um Should we switch to Lecter? Sure. His battle resume and types of enemies. little bit different than Dexter. Now, I find...
00:23:05
Speaker
that he claims to kill like bully types. um But I also think that he's kind of more self-serving. um We see him killing cops, so he escapes you know certain situations.
00:23:18
Speaker
um And to me, it's more about the elaborate presentation than the actual kill and the victim. Um, you know, and can he create a five-star meal out of this, out of this thing? Right.
00:23:29
Speaker
So I think that's what it's mostly about. And, you know, honestly is, I just feel like there's a difference between a bully going out and killing a bully, um, for a real reason versus killing somebody because he has rude behavior.
00:23:44
Speaker
And I feel like that's what really sets Hannibal Lecter off. Dr. The good Dr. Lecter. Completely and unsuspecting opponents for sure. Whereas Dexter is up against people who are probably in some way on the run or always looking over their shoulder.
00:24:01
Speaker
That gives Dexter experience against people that you know puts him above Dexter. you know Hannibal Lecter in that way. yeah Hey, can can we say this safely?
00:24:12
Speaker
um there's a lot of There's a lot of incredible competitors in this thing. We have 48 again. Hannibal Lecter is the smartest of all, right? is he Is there anybody as smart as him, even close?
00:24:26
Speaker
i I am thinking of one, but I won't share it right now. i don't want to give away our full I don't want to give away our full list, but I think there is one that is on par with Hannibal Lecter. Really? i'll I'll let you know when we get there.
00:24:38
Speaker
If there was a scenario where Dexter was in any round of this tournament and had somebody on his table,
00:24:48
Speaker
They can't move, but there's one one person whose brain would still be working and it's Hannibal Lecter. I think it's literally the only person that could potentially do something crazy to get out of that situation where he's already on Dexter's table and he could mentally get inside his head.
00:25:06
Speaker
That's a really crazy scenario to to think of. It's kind of cool, actually. Yeah, yeah. what What are his preferred ah weapons? He uses a lot of different weapons.
00:25:18
Speaker
Um, but there's a lot of strangulation and probably the most, for me, the most iconic is just his mouth. He loves biting people's faces and just, that's disgusting, but I think that's his best weapon.
00:25:34
Speaker
He's a dirty fighter. He is a dirty fighter. Whereas Dexter, Dexter is not, he won't do anything that will, you know anything crazy, that would perhaps get him the win if it meant sacrificing him ah being caught.
00:25:56
Speaker
ah Some of his opponents, there's a sampling of his opponents. We know Dexter is killing killers. Dr. Lecter is mainly going after like corrupt political figures, bureaucrats.
00:26:09
Speaker
um We saw him kill some guards, doctors. most For the most part, they're unlikable or even contemptible. So a pretty big range there.
00:26:20
Speaker
I don't think Dexter would kill someone who's just unlikable. So and maybe Dexter's code is stronger. Hey, most iconic scene might be the most iconic scene of the first round, right? The escape, right?
00:26:37
Speaker
Yeah. Or, I mean, when he ah is with Clarice he's talking about, you know, what he pairs his food with and he he goes right like that.
00:26:52
Speaker
A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti.
00:27:07
Speaker
Oh, the breath at the end.
00:27:12
Speaker
Iconic. So creepy. Wait, is that the escape scene? no No. No. That's when they that's that's ah when they were still... um She was still going to the prison.
00:27:23
Speaker
that looked like Alcatraz or something. She was still going there to visit him and he was trying to, or she was trying to get information from him. I see. I see. But the escape has to be a bigger scene, right? Yeah. So the reveal when they shoot the leg of Hannibal on top of the car and he doesn't move and then they go to the cop with the messed up face and he peels the face off and he's Hannibal the whole time.
00:27:44
Speaker
Yeah. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Not only, i mean, Incredible. And then how does he do this? Okay. The whole scene is, is like a great rewatchable scene because Does he what does he do? Where does he get that? It's like a little tip of a pen.
00:28:03
Speaker
First of all, would that open handcuffs? Secondly, did he like regurgitate that or was it just in his mouth the whole time? Because he kind of says, hold on a minute. And he's behind like a curtain.
00:28:15
Speaker
And then he kind of materializes that thing out of his mouth. Do you think he swallowed it and was kind of forcing it back up or was it just stuck in his mouth? like to imagine he's regurgitating it like a Bose with the clown thing. And he's pulling out a bunch of handkerchiefs.
00:28:30
Speaker
And then of course he puts these, one of the the guards in an elaborate pose, like it's some kind of a fallen angels spread out. He's hanging from the ceiling.
00:28:42
Speaker
Um, so he had time to do that. It's all about the artistry. Right. And then puts the face on his face. Yeah. He seems a lot more ruthless than Dexter.
00:28:54
Speaker
Yeah. Dexter's a little, uh, you know, he, he, he tiptoes around, he's trying to stay hidden. yeah ah Hannibal doesn't give a fuck. He's just like, I will fuck you up. I don't even care. Cause like, he's just so enticed by this, you know, the thought of killing people.
00:29:10
Speaker
So that could give him a leg up if he's that motivated. The artistry is a 10 out of 10 for this guy. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like obviously um Anthony Hopkins being the more famous one, but with Mads Mikkelsen, he felt
Hannibal's Intelligence and Manipulation
00:29:29
Speaker
a lot more combative than Anthony Hopkins did.
00:29:34
Speaker
So I feel like you go back, you watch those scenes, you're watching the show, you're seeing him doing a lot more, you know, James Bourne type hand, hand combat kind of stuff that you were never seeing and our, our aging actor do in silence of the lambs.
00:29:49
Speaker
Yeah. And it's a good point. So to consider this, we also have to realize that, We do have Hannibal Lecter as a younger man. He was more athletic. there was There's even some some you know viewers who are assuming, kind of like we did with Dexter, that he has some jujitsu, but there's really no there's really no proof of that, but that he does have some a little bit more skills than what we see him have in Silence of the Lambs.
00:30:17
Speaker
All right, let's go to the kill count. Here's what we have. Now, just so you know, I'm considering... Hannibal Lecter in Manhunter starring Brian Cox. If you remember, he was from, he was Logan Roy from succession.
00:30:33
Speaker
um He played, he was the first one to play Hannibal Lecter. um So we have Manhunter, then we have the four main movies and then we have um ah the TV series, the Hannibal TV series. So how many for that?
00:30:52
Speaker
Chris, I went first last time. I'm putting you on the spot. Okay. I'm going to go with 50. wait. no way The new season would likely have more theatrics, right? And maybe more kills. 86. Okay. I'm going to go 120.
00:31:15
Speaker
Okay. okay All right. So in the movies, Manhunter plus the four movies that we know, 26.
00:31:27
Speaker
twenty six And in the TV series, 62. For 88, Chris almost nailed it. Ooh, nice. Yes. No research.
00:31:38
Speaker
Keyboard Carnage. This is incredible. Incredible one-star review. Are you ready for this one? Very misleading. Not a single lamb. One star.
00:31:53
Speaker
That's pretty good. That, ah you know, we should get that guy on the show. Um, they've gone too far again. No, nothing crazy. He's not like an action hero. I wouldn't say by any stretch. So there were were no crazy, um, uh, ridiculous. How did he survive?
00:32:09
Speaker
But, um, I will say how did a 60 something year old man string up that 200 pound dead body in a prison cell? Uh, that one i think might be pretty amazing, or I would have at least loved to see how the hell he did it.
00:32:23
Speaker
Levers and pulleys. It's all physics, Steve. Come on. and Yeah, he is a he is a doctor. would know all about levers and pulleys. Yeah, that's psychiatry 101 right there, lever class. Yeah.
00:32:37
Speaker
No, wait, but also, you know, similarly to, and you know, a similar plot hole to Face Off with Nick Cage and ah John Travolta.
00:32:50
Speaker
Yeah. How could he have made the cop's face look so realistic? Can I tell you this? I, when I, I watched this again and I look more closely because when you're watching it, you know, the first time you've seen it, you're like, oh, that's the guard. We know it's the guard. So you don't have to, you know, it's just part of this, the scene.
00:33:10
Speaker
Look at it again. It does look like Lecter. Really? Yeah. I think it does. That's funny. Yeah. um Okay. What souvenir for your collection?
00:33:21
Speaker
ah There's only one. The lotion. Oh, you want the lotion? Interesting. I'm just kidding. that' I like how that's not even a character we're talking about. Just so iconic and adjacent.
00:33:35
Speaker
and I respect the choice. That's good because it's not of at all where I was going to go. And I felt like i was what I was thinking is 100% the choice. Obviously, it's not. So good work there.
00:33:48
Speaker
Jordan, do you have one? I would do the face, but I i wouldn't put it in my living room or anything like that. i ah Wait, you don't mean a real face.
00:34:00
Speaker
I'm talking, you know, the cop's face that was eaten that was eaten off and then that he wore over his own face. That feels like an iconic prop. The prosthetic fake face. Yes, yes. What an incredible prop. Okay, good. I'm glad we did this. So that's more for the artistry of yes of the prop. It's an incredibly creepy thing.
00:34:18
Speaker
It would be incredible. What was yours, Steve? The mask. The vector mask. i felt like That would be crazy to have that sitting up you know on a display. So, yeah. yeah yeah Hey, let's talk let me talk about Buffalo Bill really quick.
00:34:34
Speaker
Did he invent the tuck, at least in popular culture?
00:34:40
Speaker
What year did it come out? 1992, he said? 91, yeah. Uh, I mean, you know, is it the first, and is it the first known, uh, use in pop culture or entertainment?
00:34:53
Speaker
I would say so. I don't know. I bet it is progressive for that. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Okay. Just wondering. All right. Yippee kia motherfucker. There are some good ones. We just talked about a couple already. Um, the census taker tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava beans. Yeah.
00:35:10
Speaker
Excellent one. Yep. And apparently not. Hello, Clarice. He did not say hello, Clarice, but you know what he did say?
00:35:18
Speaker
I'm having an old friend for dinner. That's a good one. He meant it. double mey magic Pretty classic. I'm and introducing a new category for the gauntlet.
00:35:31
Speaker
It's called Six Degrees of Steve. Jesus Christ. ah We're going to break this out occasionally when it when it's a fun one. I think this is a fun one. We can connect Anthony Hopkins with With Steve.
00:35:44
Speaker
Okay. Should we do this? Like Steve Stadler, the guy in his normal life or Steve Stadler, the renowned actor. The renowned actor. Okay.
00:35:55
Speaker
Listen. Okay. So you, you, you both know six degrees of Kevin Bacon and they say yeah Kevin Bacon was in X with this person. Yes. And that person was in this with that person until you get that. You can connect anybody to Kevin Bacon in six steps.
00:36:11
Speaker
All right here. Hey, listen to this. Anthony Hopkins. There is a new series out called those about to die. Anthony Hopkins is in it with Ewan Rion. Yeah.
00:36:23
Speaker
Ewan Rion played Ramsay Bolton in Game of Thrones. Just a detestable character, by the way. Okay. We're not going talk about this guy, but yeah, he gives me the worst creeps than Hannibal Lecter.
00:36:36
Speaker
All right. So we go from Hopkins to Ewan Rion, who played Ramsay Bolton. Ewan Rion, of course, Game of Thrones with Lena Headey, who played Cersei Lannister.
00:36:48
Speaker
Lena Headey was in White House Plumbers with me. Boom. Only three steps. Yeah. Can we get it down to to two?
00:37:02
Speaker
um Did she know she was in White House Plumbers with Steve? I feel like we can. Three's the record. Three's going to be tough to beat. I think maybe we can do it though. I think we can do it.
00:37:14
Speaker
Maybe you need to be in more TV shows. Yeah, I know. Or movies. White House Plumbers had a pretty good pretty good cast. ah So um it won't be as hard as I thought it was going to be coming in.
00:37:25
Speaker
Let's move on. Iconic kills. We kind of talked about, the like of course, the iconic kills for for Lecter. But Dexter, I just think it's interesting that of the people that he's killed,
00:37:37
Speaker
He killed his brother. He killed his girlfriend, Lila. He killed his best friend and maybe his only friend, Miguel. He killed his coworker, Dokes, and just a shitload of other killers. So I think that's kind of interesting that he's killing that he's killing these people. and And he indirectly killed his dad, to be real honest. Oh my God.
00:38:06
Speaker
All right. Hey, let's get down to business here. Okay. What makes these guys dangerous in this, in this, in the tournament format, what makes them the most dangerous and their biggest strengths to advance to the next round?
Analysis of Dexter vs. Hannibal
00:38:19
Speaker
You want to start with Dexter? start with Dexter, but I think this applies to both of them. They're just such planners. So like some contenders that we're going to touch on later, who just might walk into this with absolute rage and brute strength, they are going to know a plan, a a plan B, a plan C, and they are going to be so in your head and know everything about the terrain, about you, about how you react to things. So I think it's their ability to think through all these scenarios and create create scenario where you just walk right into their trap.
00:38:51
Speaker
Good. I don't disagree with that. Chris, you got anything on Dexter first? what do you think his biggest strength is? Overall experience. I would say Dexter at least probably has one of the highest onscreen kill counts of anybody in the tournament.
00:39:06
Speaker
Just the fact he's been in so many different situations to at least subdue who he's killing could mean that, you know, he has the ability to do it to almost anyone. Yeah.
00:39:17
Speaker
it It's an interesting matchup, especially for the first round, because I feel like out of all 48, you could say that Dexter has probably killed.
00:39:28
Speaker
He's probably number one. He's probably killed more killers than anybody else. That's kind of how I'm looking at it. And then you have Lecter who out of all 48, he's probably number one in terms of like smartest the competitor in this whole tournament. So it's a weird, it's a weird matchup.
00:39:45
Speaker
um But they both have huge, huge strengths. If it's a video game, they both have something that's like a 10 out of 10, right? Or a hundred out of a hundred. So let's talk about the path to victory.
00:39:57
Speaker
Dexter. He's physically tougher. He's younger. He's more athletic. He's not as smart as Hannibal, but nobody is, right? But he is a thinker, like you were just saying, Chris. He's a thinker, or maybe Jordan said that.
00:40:11
Speaker
um He's not a bull in a china shop who's just going to go in and start mowing people down. He does think, and he has he has this code. The code is to kill killers, and that's what this tournament's all about. So that's what I have to say about Dexter.
00:40:24
Speaker
Yeah, I think we're just talking about Dexter. I mean, it doesn't seem like he has ah weird you know fetish, that the same fetish that Hannibal Lecter has for killing people. So I could see Hannibal getting a little sidetracked by his excitement in the whole thing. trying Maybe trying to kill Dexter could distract him in some way that he's you know so excited that he forgets to do something or loses his focus.
00:40:52
Speaker
Whereas Dexter, I think, is more of a um intense and and methodical killer. He doesn't want to make any mistakes ah to to get caught. And he definitely he he definitely needs to kill, but he it's not like he's... a it's It's almost like it's it's a ah disease or disorder that he has that he's dealing with rather than some weird ah you know fetish that he needs to satiate.
00:41:23
Speaker
I feel like i see Dexter's methodicalness almost as a little bit of a crutch. So while that makes him good at not getting caught, it doesn't put him in a scenario like Hannibal Lecter where he's doing as much hand-to-hand combat or he is as... as brutal of an attacker when he is in that type of scenario.
00:41:44
Speaker
He does so much planning that he almost has zero experience outside of a one on one situation where he hasn't already planned it out. Whereas Hannibal Lecter can be a little bit more impulsive, but has a lot of reps, a lot of experience doing that.
00:41:59
Speaker
And I think that's going to come to his advantage if one of them is caught off guard. If Dexter's plan goes off the rails even a tiny bit, his improvisation is probably not going to match the improvisation of Lecter.
00:42:11
Speaker
Okay. That's a really good point. Hey, if, if, if Lecter is on Dexter's table, how does he react? Is he scared? Does he know it's the end or does he look at it as a, as a challenge and like game recognizes game?
00:42:25
Speaker
He 100% has a bonus. Yeah. Yeah. He sees the knife come out and he's like, Ooh, are you going to eat me? Yeah. Yeah. I could see him ah talking Dexter down.
00:42:40
Speaker
Wasn't there a ah a couple of times maybe that Dexter had someone on the table and they woke up and they talked to him or something and he, you know...
00:42:52
Speaker
he they were trying to argue that they should you know so yeah they shouldn't be killed and he was ah very torn about what to do. Yes, so we we said this that that Lecter's biggest asset is his brain and his mind, right? And and being strapped on a table doesn't prevent prevent his brain from still working and still trying to get in Dexter's head.
00:43:15
Speaker
And Dexter is susceptible to this. We've seen it a couple times where other people actually get in his head, not in a mental way like Lecter could do, but in a way where Dexter had to at least wanted to think about things before he he killed this person.
00:43:28
Speaker
So that is a point. that is That is a good point. Yeah, I think I'm going to give it to Lecter in this sense because... there is a code that Dexter has to follow. One of the big things being the person has to deserve it.
00:43:42
Speaker
And I feel like he has the psychological wit to break down his code and make himself seem ineligible for being killed, especially, as a killer recognizing another killer, he might be able to pitch the way that he's only killed people who deserves it, that he's like him and that he's bettering the world.
00:44:00
Speaker
So not in a hand-to-hand, fist-to-fist kind of way, even in his own head, I think Hannibal Lecter is going to be able to possibly talk him off the ledge if given the opportunity. And it seems like Dexter is pretty usually giving them that opportunity. He likes to have that whole dialogue before the kill.
00:44:17
Speaker
Yeah, like a mind-to-mind combat. I'll make a counterpoint. We saw it in season one. It was his own brother, his own. And we saw it a couple other times.
00:44:29
Speaker
People saying, we're like each other. I'm just like you. You're just like me. Let's do this together. And Dexter did not bite on that. he can't he He wasn't fooled by that part, at least.
00:44:44
Speaker
I was going to say, you know, in this scenario, I could totally see Lecter trying to convince him to say, let's do this together. as you know how many more people you would kill? I could give you tips. yeah ah You know, i could I could totally help you in this. yeah and And I could redeem myself or something, you know, to make it better.
00:45:03
Speaker
the The evidence that we have is that Dexter isn't susceptible to that type of persuasion. Okay.
00:45:14
Speaker
Now it's time to settle the score. are Do we have our picks? Are we ready to pick who we think is going to win this thing?
00:45:29
Speaker
I have mine. Okay, I have mine. Based on that last point that you made, I'm kind of torn, honestly.
Conclusion: Dexter's Victory
00:45:35
Speaker
Okay, I mean, it's close. that We knew this was close. yeah we we we We gave Lecter a minus 115 as a very thin favorite, and we also...
00:45:45
Speaker
On a poll on Instagram and X and Facebook, um it was dead even. I'm not kidding. Same exact. It was tied. So it's close.
00:45:56
Speaker
But I definitely have a winner in my mind. And let's hear am i think I think Dexter takes this. I think Dexter takes it. i think lex I think Lecter is on that table. And I think he looks at it as it as a challenge. Game recognizes game. And I think when Dexter kills him,
00:46:14
Speaker
Lecter has a smile on his face.
00:46:19
Speaker
Maybe I'm susceptible like some of these people, these they've been killers have been talking to, but my mind is completely changed. So when I started this, I was thinking that Dexter had it.
00:46:30
Speaker
But after talking through this, especially if we were to go with a ah younger Hannibal Lecter, as we see in some of the other media, I think they're pretty similar in hand to hand. And I also think that he's going to be the more he's goingnna be the more natural fighter here and that if given the chance to have that kind of dialogue monologue that dexter likes to have on the table he has a good chance of talking his way out or talking dexter into some way that he gets killed so for that reason i'm giving it to lector okay we got a split decision already chris coming down to me for the tiebreaker yeah i certainly you know as you know at the beginning of the episode i was leaning dexter but
00:47:09
Speaker
A lot of great points brought up ah for Hannibal Lecter, really just his ruthlessness and his love of the game, if you want to call it that. He just could overtake Dexter in that way if it was man-on-man, hand-to-hand fighting.
00:47:27
Speaker
um If there is a scenario where I think you know Dexter does manage to get him on the table, that you know certainly gives Dexter the upper hand and I'm not sure how much Hannibal's mind would allow him to escape but or at least persuade Dexter to to not kill him in that ah particular scenario.
00:47:47
Speaker
I think still, I'd love to imagine that as like a ah really cool sort of mashup of the two uh, the two franchises, the fact that this podcast could be, uh, inspiration for that type of movie, you know, alien versus predator type thing, um, is, is a really cool idea. So, you know, I certainly think let's say, you know, the finale of this whole film is Dexter manages to subdue Lecter and get him on the table.
00:48:18
Speaker
Uh, there would be an um absolutely amazing, dialogue between the two of them. at the very end, you know complete suspense, building up, building, building, building um to the point you you know you're really not sure. Maybe Dexter is starting to go back on his decision and he's like, oh, you know what? Maybe Hannibal Lecter, we could really make a crazy, formidable team.
00:48:39
Speaker
ah But you know last second, I think he has ah you know some clarity and and maybe Lecter says one too many things. he He speaks a little too much and Dexter's like, you know what?
00:48:55
Speaker
No, I'm going to go back and, you know, back to my roots and to, you know, stick with my code. I say he kills Lecter. Okay. Amazing. But it was very close. Amazing.
00:49:08
Speaker
Yeah, this is as close as I can imagine. ah Seriously, for the first round fights, this is as close as I can i can imagine. We had two for Dexter, one for Lecter. It could have gone either way. It could have been three to nothing either way. That's how close this this thing is.
00:49:21
Speaker
We got Dexter. advancing to the next round. Should we spoil this? Let's spoil it. Dexter advances and guess who he gets to to face in the next round. And now this will not be the next episode, but he will advance to the next round. We have other first round matches coming up first, but we know that Dexter will advance to face Dan chase from Really good series. I think it's on Hulu right now. One season is in.
00:49:46
Speaker
Dan Chase from The Old Man. It's like, I look at this as it's like Jack Bauer, but he's like 75 years old. So everybody has a chance to watch this. That's going to be an incredible matchup too.
00:49:58
Speaker
But right now, the verdict from us, and this is now not opinion. This is a goddamn fact. de Dexter defeats Hannibal Lecter.
00:50:12
Speaker
Good work, guys. Episode two is coming soon. We'll announce it on social media so you'll have an idea of who it is and then you can vote in three polls too.