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Indiana Jones v Sarah Connor -- Relics & Reloads
19 Plays13 days ago
One is a relic-hunting adventurer with a whip and a fear of snakes. The other is basically the female Joel Miller — hardened, relentless, and ready for the end of the world. We break down Steve’s injured shoulder, questionable Gmail economics (“is Gmail free?”), a surprisingly important succulent Chinese dinner, and whether “come with me if you want to live” works on a guy who’s already outrun a boulder.
And listen as Kate Capshaw takes some strays.
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Transcript
Introduction to Fictional Fighting Championship
00:00:07
Speaker
This is the fictional fighting championship podcast, the ultimate battleground where Hollywood's deadliest warriors collide. We're a taking 48 of the most ruthless, skilled, and battle-hardened fighters from movies and TV and throwing them into a no-holds-barred tournament to see who survives.
00:00:26
Speaker
You've seen the movies, you know the legends. Now it's time to settle the score.
00:00:37
Speaker
Take it easy, Sarah. Easy. It won't work, Sarah. You're no killer. I don't believe you. You're right. You already did, Silverman. Everybody dies. You know I believe it. So don't fuck with me! Open door.
Meet the Hosts and Podcast Premise
00:00:49
Speaker
Open the door!
00:00:53
Speaker
I'm Jordan Guerrero. I'm Christian Duggetsy. And I'm Steve Sadler. And this is a podcast about the greatest fictional tournament in the history of the universe. And that is not an exaggeration.
00:01:04
Speaker
Guys,
Extended Season Due to Fan Demand
00:01:05
Speaker
we're back. The fans, they want and they want us to keep going. They just. We wanted to stop the season at two episodes, but the fans demanded a third episode.
00:01:15
Speaker
And I think they demanded the right episode because these are pretty good fighters, but even more than these fighters, these are two of the best movie series that we have. Chris, why don't you tell us who it is so we know? 1000%, guys. Definitely some of the best movie series we have
Sarah Connor vs. Indiana Jones Matchup
00:01:30
Speaker
in the tournament. We have Sarah Connor versus...
00:01:35
Speaker
Indiana Jones. Hell yeah. I love this one. When you saw this one on the bracket, did you have any strong immediate feelings for one or the other of these? Well, our first woman competitor in the tournament. Nice. Good. Yes. Pretty exciting. We have, I want to say at least two others. Definitely exciting to see our first woman competitor.
00:01:54
Speaker
I did also think that Sarah Connor has some of the toughest opponents of any of the competitors in the tournament being insane, futuristic, killing machine robots. So that was a huge factor for me.
00:02:07
Speaker
I immediately thought that Indiana Jones would win and I had nothing concrete to back that up. I just, I was Indiana Jones for Halloween when I was eight years old. And I think that's all you need to know.
00:02:18
Speaker
but Oh, no. Oh, my God, dude. No, I'm i'm with you, man. my I think I've spoken about this in previous episodes, but my grandfather would record movies that were broadcast on the TV on VHS tape. And we had a huge collection of you know James Bond, all the classics, basically. And Indiana Jones, of course, was one of them. And I yeah grew up watching Indiana Jones, watched the films over and over and over again. Just love love it so much.
00:02:45
Speaker
great characters and great franchises. So I'm very pumped up about this and looking forward to
Fan Engagement and Interaction
00:02:51
Speaker
this one. Before we go any too much farther here, Jordan, do you want to tell our fans what they should be doing right now?
00:02:56
Speaker
What you need to be doing is giving us a follow Instagram, Facebook, tech talk, anywhere you are blue sky. We'll start a blue sky. Find us on Apple podcasts. Find us on Spotify. Find us everywhere.
00:03:09
Speaker
You need to never miss an episode moving forward. And if you really love us, tell your friends, tell your coworkers, tell your grandma, tell anyone that you know. And any of you have received those sick QR code stickers we've been sending out, please post those in your local dive bar.
00:03:23
Speaker
your local porta potty or anywhere that viewers are. Jordan, you were gone last week. We had our friend will jump in, but you missed this. You know, we have goddamn Gmail account. Now fictional FC pod at gmail.com. So we want our fans to to message us over there and tell us what you think about a particular episode, a particular matchup, or even the show in general. And we'll read some good ones on the air.
00:03:48
Speaker
Yeah. Send us your feedback. We spent good money on this account. pretty sure Gmail is still free. Yeah. And where's all the sponsor money going, Steve? Yeah. yeah you You told me it was all going to the Gmail account.
00:04:07
Speaker
All right. Hey, let's do the tale the tape.
Sarah Connor's Character Introduction
00:04:09
Speaker
First competitor is Sarah Connor. She debuted in 1984, believe it or not, in Terminator, portrayed by Linda Hamilton.
00:04:18
Speaker
Her fight stats. She's about five five about 120 pounds, and believe it or not, 19 years old. Now, Linda Hamilton was 28 years old when she filmed this, and it was never mentioned on screen, but the the original script has her very clearly at 19 years old.
00:04:37
Speaker
So that's an interesting one. So she's one of the youngest and for sure one of the smallest competitors in this whole tournament. Yeah. It man might've actually had a chance here. It man is smaller, believe it or not, but absolutely comparable at that young. She's almost giving me like princess Leia, Carrie Fisher vibes.
00:04:55
Speaker
Should we put her in the tournament? She'd be a good one too. Yeah. All right. Sarah Connor is fighting out of Los Angeles, California. Her vibe check. I don't know. Traumatized mother. How about that?
00:05:06
Speaker
What do you guys have a better one? Gosh. I mean, she has such a character but it depends on what movie you're talking about. But I think her vibe has to be just paramilitary badass. That works. Do you have a signature move? This is the only one I have had. ah I just have a blank spot here.
00:05:22
Speaker
Signature move. ah Running away. yeah yeah she's She's just running a lot in in the films. So I yeah wanted to make that point. Not bad. Really really good at escaping.
Sarah Connor's Kill Count
00:05:35
Speaker
All right. You know what time it is? Kill count time. Um, okay. So Sarah Connor played by Linda Hamilton has appeared in just, so I'm just going to refresh you guys on here. Not only was she in Terminator, the original one, she was in Terminator two, and then she came back in 2019 in Terminator dark fate. So keep that in mind. Okay. So just to be clear, we're not doing Lena Headey, Cersei Lannister, who did Sarah Connor in the Sarah Connor Chronicles TV show or Emilia Clarke in the terrible Terminator Genesis.
00:06:08
Speaker
We're doing no Sarah Connors played by any cast member of Game of Thrones. That's a good call. That makes things a little easier, I guess. Who gets to go first? I'll start, Chris. I see you're waning here. oh gosh, I have no idea. Let's see. Terminator 1.
00:06:23
Speaker
Oh, hold on. We're counting Terminators and humans, right? Yes, yes, of course, yes. And mostly mostly Terminators here. Gosh, I'm going to say like 10. Okay. okay Yeah, a good guess. I was gonna guess low as well, just because I don't even know if terminators should count.
00:06:40
Speaker
I'm gonna go assuming that there were quite a few lesser robots maybe coming after her. 15. fifteen All right. I love these guesses because it proves my hope when I, when I do this is that, I mean, you guys could of course Google this. You could of course, while you're watching it, make mental notes and kind of count roughly in your head. These, these guesses tell me that you are entering this with a complete blank slate, which is how I want this to happen on this, on this one particular category.
00:07:13
Speaker
Sarah Connor's kill count. And I have question marks behind it is two. Yeah. Okay. that but That's kind of where I was leaning as well. This is the odd part.
00:07:24
Speaker
Both of these kills were the T-800 played by Arnold Schwarzenegger. She killed him in the first one and the second one, but the second one was on friendlier terms, right? Yeah. Because he couldn't kill himself. Right. she like assisted suicide Right. Exactly. So yeah. just What a weird one.
00:07:41
Speaker
Yeah, I assumed there was more collateral damage here. I know John Connor telling the Turkmenator T-800, hey, don't kill people. But I assumed some people had to have died. Yeah. without Dark Fate, too. I mean, I guess in those films, she's shooting these robots, but they just keep coming back, right? Like they just have holes punched in them, but they just repair themselves. And so they don't actually die.
00:08:04
Speaker
Let me add a fun fact here before we go to Indy. Did you guys get John Connor as a child? So I'm talking about Terminator 2. Did you see his foster dad when his mom was in the asylum there? Mm-hmm.
00:08:16
Speaker
Foster dad was played by Xander Berkeley. Does that name ring a bell? Not when we were born. Okay. You're going to like it. That's the same fucking guy who played Stuart, that asshole husband of Brian Mills' ex-wife in Taken.
00:08:31
Speaker
No way. Yes. ah What a movie Easter egg, giving us that nice little Easter egg in Terminator. ah Also Xander Berkeley, by the way, we're going to get to him in a couple, maybe next season. He was a key character in 24.
00:08:47
Speaker
Sure. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:08:56
Speaker
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00:09:05
Speaker
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00:09:45
Speaker
All right. Tale the tape, Indy.
Indiana Jones' Character Introduction
00:09:47
Speaker
Indiana Jones. His debut was 1981 in Raiders of the Lost Ark, portrayed by Harrison Ford. His fight stats. He's about five eleven about 185. And when we first saw Indy, he was in his mid-30s.
00:10:00
Speaker
He's fighting out of the Department of Archaeology at Marshall College.
00:10:07
Speaker
Nerd.
00:10:10
Speaker
Signature move. A good old crack of the whip. Yeah. How about the whip? Absolutely the whip. Yeah. Whip and punch. yeah You know what else though too? Yeah. The punch, like he's got a really good punch on him. He's, you know, winds up yeahp he throws his whole body into it whole body and it's usually a one punch knockout. He's got heavy hands as they say in the business. We'll talk more about that. Cause that goes under his skills, his fighting skills, vibe check.
00:10:35
Speaker
Anyone got anything for this? Rico Suave 007. double o seven Happy-go-lucky, little bit jaded. I have this written down. Tell me if this is right. Possibly the ultimate adventure hero.
00:10:49
Speaker
He might be the only person I dressed up for Halloween as, so yeah. When we run the gauntlet, I can't wait to hear Jordan's article of clothing or prop that he wants to keep. Okay, Dr. Jones.
00:11:01
Speaker
All right, kill count. Let's talk about the kill count for an archaeologist. I don't know. Those punches look pretty intense. Do we think he's killing anybody with a punch? Very possibly.
00:11:13
Speaker
I want to say, because he does have his six shooter. And for example, in the Raiders of the Lost Ark, where he doesn't warn the Nazis whatsoever about what's coming, does that count as kills?
00:11:27
Speaker
Oh, when he doesn't tell them to close their eyes? No, that definitely does not count. No, I know. He's not killing them. He's not killing them in that one. True, true, true. Okay. Anyway, sorry. I'm going to say 20. 20.
00:11:39
Speaker
Okay. Okay. Indiana Jones doesn't have too many direct kills, I feel like. You you know, like the dude with the sword that he actively shoots. I feel like a lot of his kills are indirect kills.
00:11:50
Speaker
I'm thinking like the the Nazi that he's brawling with by the plane propeller. And ah I'm going to count that as a kill. That's a kill, yes. That being said, I'm going to say 30. Okay. You guys, those guesses make me realize that you are definitely not cheating.
00:12:08
Speaker
Indiana Jones, total kills. The best estimate that I found in one, two, three, four, five different movies, 81 kills. Holy crap. Holy shit.
00:12:19
Speaker
Yeah. of do we Do we have a count for the first three movies, the movies that actually count? We do. We do. Raiders of the Lost Ark, he had 12. Okay. Temple of Doom, he had 21. And The Last Crusade, he had 13. Yeah, but that's not us, Chris.
00:12:35
Speaker
Yeah, a lot those cult followers in Temple of Doom. Yeah, you're making us look bad here. It's funny that you like that we are failing and that we look like we don't know what we're talking about whatsoever. Listeners are going to have no faith. Yeah.
00:12:50
Speaker
No, but
Indiana's Original Name
00:12:51
Speaker
they are going to have faith in Jordan Guerrero and his guessing abilities. So ah please feel free to bet on that. Nice. jordan did Jordan did win, technically. He got closer to... Wait, did he win both? Yeah. no chris Oh, yeah, yeah, he won both. He started the season off nicely. Yeah, doing a lot better.
00:13:08
Speaker
Hey, fun fact. Did you know Indiana Jones was not the original name that George Lucas wanted to use for him? What was it, really? I want you to guess. it's It's Indiana something, but I'll give you that hint. But give me the last name that he wanted. And when I tell you, you're going to be completely underwhelmed.
00:13:24
Speaker
Was it Indiana Frank? okay Indiana James Indiana james okay indiana Smith wow that's god awful I'm sorry not my Smith listeners generic white guy name terrible at least last name that was George Lucas's idea but then Spielberg hated it so they then it's funny that Jones was his next choice and it's stuck of course it sounds a little bit better but man anyway it does have a good ring to it it kind of just flows is it time to run the gauntlet No, the gauntlet is minutes away, man. What are you talking about?
00:13:57
Speaker
We got to do the character breakdowns first. Come on, man. Wait, what? take one week off and you forget... oh yeah there it is okay la don't worry i'll cut that part out but okay i have a fun fact any guess who was going to play indiana jones i don't know you guys aren't as old as me so you might not even give a shit who this guy is steve bescemi no no good guess good guess i would like to see that tom sellick
00:14:26
Speaker
he had to turn it down because he was doing the Magnum PI series at the time, which was huge, a huge TV hit at that time. And they wouldn't let him out of the contract. I just don't see it.
00:14:37
Speaker
Yeah. He was a huge star. I mean, he, he, was he had to be a bigger, so I don't know. He had to be a bigger star at the time than Harrison Ford, even though. Yeah, I absolutely see it. That mustache. Yeah, you do. No, I mean, You can go on YouTube and and even see like, I don't know what they were, but he was ah in costume and everything. He was doing like filming scenes and stuff. I don't think he ever was filming it, but it maybe it was like a screen test or something.
00:14:58
Speaker
Wow. was like Van Damme in the Predator costume. Yeah.
00:15:10
Speaker
All right, let's do a character breakdown for these guys.
Sarah Connor's Training and Evolution
00:15:13
Speaker
First one, Sarah Connors. Sarah Connor, my bad. Battle resume. Well, we do know that she was trained by revolutionaries in Central America. And most of the training, the hardcore training, was between Terminator 1 and Terminator 2. Basically, it just changed her from being a completely desperate, untrained survivor in the first one into what some fans I've so seen online call the most dangerous woman in the world. by the time terminator 2 starts that's really cool i think we'll get into that a little bit later about her character arc yeah definitely definitely her character time period 1984 the terminators came from the future but sarah's timeline is is modern day was modern day at that time which is early early mid 80s would you say that this is the most or sorry ah the least grounded in reality character or film that we have in the tournament
00:16:04
Speaker
Other than Machete. Oh, yeah. At least Machete doesn't have killing robots coming back from the future. This is such a good matchup that I struggle with that question because I'm thinking the same thing for Indiana Jones, that that's not grounded in reality. I mean, you know what i mean? It's like it depends on your definition of reality. All the voodoo.
00:16:24
Speaker
Sure, sure. yeah I don't know. It's a great conversation piece, though. What about her background and training and skill set, things that we know about? ah Let's talk about her physical training. So what is this opening scene or one of the first scenes in Terminator 2?
00:16:38
Speaker
She cranks out like 15 chin-ups in a row. And I believe that it's that she's doing it. Yeah, I was watching that. I'm like, that's probably about how much the three of us could do combined.
00:16:51
Speaker
don't know I get to five to carry carry the average. Jordan, that's not fair at all. You know I hurt my shoulder. How dare you? that That's why I'm not in the MLB. There's like an Uncle Rico, Napoleon Dynamite moment right here. You're not going to throw this football over the mountain range.
00:17:09
Speaker
No, her and and Chris hinted at this and we'll talk more about it, but it is a very unusual category for Sarah Connor because when we first met her, she had zero skills, literally almost like zero skills other than survival.
00:17:22
Speaker
After surviving the first movie, she, she gained like all these other skills, like paramilitary type survivalism and guerrilla warfare, you know? So, i mean, what a 180. I forget why was she down there?
00:17:35
Speaker
Training John Connor, trying to give him all the skill set to run a guerrilla band of warriors. And then, you know, you get to the last movie, T6, you see her in that scene where she jumps out of her car with like a fucking automatic shotgun and a rocket launcher. And she's like, get in, bitches. You know, like, yeah, she's an established badass by then.
00:17:55
Speaker
That is a real badass moment. That's her entrance into the film was really, really cool. Yeah, you see just how different she is from the first one. Yep. Sampling of opponents. I mean, Jesus.
00:18:07
Speaker
Time traveling killer androids. Yeah. They're pretty much indestructible. Yeah. Specifically, there's the T-800, which was played by Arnold, and then the T-1000, which came around in Terminator 2, right? Robert Patrick's character.
00:18:22
Speaker
Also, Skynet was one of her opponents. Sure. and And Jesus, the the mental institution that she was at. the The creepy dude who was licking her face in Terminator 2. Yeah, that guy. We're going to talk about him. Yeah.
00:18:36
Speaker
People she should have killed but didn't. That's it. Yeah, maybe she did. She beat that. I mean, she clobbered that dude with a billy club. Oh, my. Maybe he is dead. I don't know. Hopefully. Yeah, he he was a real piece of shit.
00:18:48
Speaker
Hey, I don't know if you guys know this, but this is fucking awesome. The T-1000, the one played by Robert Patrick in Terminator 2. It was supposedly going to be played by Billy Idol.
00:18:59
Speaker
what What? Yep. Even, even Robert Patrick said that Billy Idol was strongly considered and that, you know, in the early storyboard images, it was ah it was a Billy Idol looking guy with spiky blonde hair and kind of that. He's got an awesome look, you know?
00:19:15
Speaker
Would there have been a musical bit in there too? That would have been pretty sick. Oh my God. Yeah. What other films was he in? Yeah. I don't know if he was in any films. Okay, hear me out. 1998, The Wedding Singer. He appears as himself.
00:19:30
Speaker
That's right. Yeah, he was on the airplane. Great one. Billy Idol had a cool look.
00:19:42
Speaker
Should we run the gauntlet? Let's do it. Let's hit it. Keyboard carnage segment. Any funny user reviews online that you found? I got one here that's ah that I found that I liked. She went from baking cookies to vaporizing a robot with a minigun, and I still can't handle the sheer audacity of it. Not bad.
00:20:03
Speaker
What a great description of the character arc. But um one person was reviewing Terminator 3. They're doing the old trope where Arnie is walking through the convenience store, grabbing food, puts on sunglasses, and then sticks out his hand and says, talk to the hand.
00:20:20
Speaker
One ah person left a review saying, when Arnold put on the Elton John sunglasses and said, talk to the hand, I walked out of the theater. ah yeah I think you hit on something that we have to address here.
00:20:33
Speaker
You talked about the later movies and how they broke down. Do you guys have a favorite movie or a ranking? Because I have strong feelings here. Yeah. I have a favorite. I am not prepared to rank all of them, but I will tell you that my favorite is, you know what? They go in order for the first three.
00:20:48
Speaker
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Terminator two is so good though. So I'm going I say Terminator two, Terminator two is better than one, than three of the top three. Yeah. My favorite is T two for sure. These films are like ahead of that time when it came to CGI, at least,
00:21:06
Speaker
with Terminator 1 and 2, just a set of classics that just, know, you go back and watch again and again. and Yeah, I feel like Terminator 2, across the board, is the uncontested goat of the entire series.
00:21:17
Speaker
I'm going to say, following that, Terminator 1, it's an absolute classic. has great 80s vibes. It's funny, as you watch the movies, so the first one, 1984, you can see Arnold Schwarzenegger getting less shredded every movie as you go, the farther away he is from being Mr. Universe.
00:21:33
Speaker
Mr. Olympia. hi I forgot whatever he was. All right. So number one, T2. Number two, Terminator 1. This might be out a left field, but I'm saying the next best one is Terminator 6 Dark Fate. Oh, boy. They brought back James Cameron, unlike Terminator 3, which I think was a total absolute flop. And it kind of ignored all of the intermediary ones and just picked up and it said, you know, I'm doing my own thing.
00:21:53
Speaker
Those movies were terrible and I'm going ignore you. After that, I know it's not part of this right here, but I actually watched in high school the Sarah Connor TV show. And that one was not bad.
00:22:03
Speaker
okay That was a totally decent TV show. Now we're on to the shitty movie. So the next one, Terminator 4 Salvation. That had Christian Bale as John Connor. It had some good action. It was still a shitty movie, but it had those two things going for it.
00:22:16
Speaker
Terminator 3 Rise of the Machines is going to be a step below that. right Got rid of James Cameron. it's so Here's how bad it is. You can't find it on any streaming services. The only way you can watch it is if you illegally stream it on YouTube.
00:22:30
Speaker
Could you buy the DVD? You could probably buy the DVD or Blu-ray. Yeah. going to have a thrift store to find it. Next is going to be Terminator 5, Terminator Genesis. That one absolutely sucked as well. That one had Emilia Clarke.
00:22:44
Speaker
It was too light. It was too weird of a rewriting of everything and overall absolute trash movie. Then from there, what we're really reaching here. There's that 2024 Netflix anime series that I didn't even watch, but based on the trailer, look kind of cool.
00:22:59
Speaker
Doesn't seem to fall in line with the rest of the Terminators though. And then depending on your flavor, the absolute worst or maybe the best has to be the 2009 ripoff, The Terminators. This is the kind of thing that would be on Spike TV or the SyFy channel at like 2 a.m. It's an absolute hokey ripoff. I watched five minutes of it.
00:23:19
Speaker
That was about as much as I could take, but it looked really funny. I love that we had a review in the keyboard carnage segment for all of the Terminator movies from Jordan there. Let's move on to the next one. For your collection, any souvenir?
00:23:32
Speaker
I've got one to impress my friends here. You know, I'm a motorcycle guy here. This is going to be also might've been around the opening scene of Terminator one, 1984, 125 CC Honda elite.
00:23:43
Speaker
That's that bad, bad piece of wheels that she shows up in, in that opening scene, that that little scooter there, cool ass 80s vibes. I would rock that thing. Very cool. Okay. That's a nice one. Yeah. It's not one that I thought you were going to take. So that's, yeah, that's great. Yeah. And attached to Sarah Connor, not, not ah Arnie.
00:24:01
Speaker
Totally. Yeah. Great job. You know, if you're talking about something that would be incredible sitting on your shelf as a conversation piece, what about that robot arm that they saved at Skynet?
00:24:12
Speaker
I could see that just sitting there on my, on my mantle next to my Rambo bandana and my Colonel James Braddock sleeveless vest. Right. So that might be okay. And if I needed something super small, that even that small chip that they saved at Skynet would be fine and I would have that. and then i then I could save space for the entire Indiana Jones collection that's coming here in a few minutes. Love that.
00:24:35
Speaker
All right. Yippee-ki-yay, motherfucker segment. I have one going into Terminator Genesis, the least favorite of all the films. What's really great is they give a callback specifically for Sarah Connor to say, come with me if you want to live. Yeah. She comes crashing in the car and points the gun out the, out the door and says, come with me if you want to live. That's awesome. my Famous line david line from the first movies. That was Kyle Reese, right? Who said that to her in the bar?
00:25:05
Speaker
Yes. Hell yeah. That's awesome.
00:25:19
Speaker
Come with me if you want to live.
00:25:24
Speaker
Come with me if you want to live. Come with me if you want to live.
00:25:34
Speaker
Come with me if you want to live. I have one too. So remember that Dr. Silberman from the asylum in Terminator two, she snaps his arm and then he says, you broke my arm.
00:25:46
Speaker
And she comes back with very cool. There's 215 bones in the human body. That's one. And I thought that was pretty bad. That's awesome.
00:25:57
Speaker
You know how I love doing this and I'm going to use this as a bonus category for her. You know how I love finding like a so a common thread that may or may not even be there, right? From one movie to another, but I like digging into this. So I, um, I want to ask this and then I have some supporting comments here too.
00:26:12
Speaker
Is she the female Joel Miller? And if you're not into it yet, let me give you some bullet points here. Sarah Connor lives in a world right before the apocalypse. For Joel, the apocalypse has already happened. They're both reluctant survivor turned hardened protector. They have serious trauma that kind of reshapes them and redefines them. They both have a single purpose, which in both cases is to protect a child.
00:26:35
Speaker
They both turned themselves into brutal war machines. And let me let me emphasize that they both turned themselves into brutal war machines, which is extremely unique for this tournament. It's usually somebody who just has elite, formal, tactical training for their entire lives, but they did it themselves.
00:26:52
Speaker
And the child in both the stories are very crucial to the survival of of all of humanity. So I don't know. What do you think? I love it. think you hit the nail on the head. They're both fighting non-human, incredibly hard to kill opponents as well.
00:27:06
Speaker
That's a good take. Yeah, both really badass. No, i I love that. The fact that unfortunately, Joel had to leave us. He was annihilated by Rambo. I'm a huge fan of Joel Miller, both the series and the video game. And to see him reincarnated in Sarah Connor, I love seeing it.
00:27:23
Speaker
Rest in peace, Joel, Paul, rest whatever your name is. Pedro or Pablo Pascal. First he was killed by a broken golf club and then he was killed by Rambo. Oh, man.
00:27:42
Speaker
Let's
Indiana's Fighting History
00:27:43
Speaker
switch over to Indy. This is one of the greatest characters of all time. So we have some good stuff here. Let's talk about his battle resume. We know he recovered relics that entire governments failed at.
00:27:54
Speaker
Since a child. He's beating Nazis. Yeah, yes, exactly. He fought Nazis. He fought the Soviets. He but fought mercenaries. I mean, this guy kind of did it all right in terms of his resume.
00:28:05
Speaker
Jungle cultists with supernatural powers. Aliens. No, no, he didn't fight aliens. There are only three movies, Chris. Let's let's not talk about that. Yes, there are not. Speaking of which, literally when I walked in this room, Dial of Destiny was playing on live TV. I was on like TBS or something as I walked in here. Oh my goodness. Give us your a take, listeners, on whether or not you like the later renditions of Indiana Jones. Yeah.
00:28:34
Speaker
Okay. Speaking of renditions, we got to do it at some point. Here's my take. One, two, three. They're all amazing. It's anyone's pick for what your favorite is. Number five, the last one, wasn't great, but wasn't so terrible. That's the Dial of Destiny?
00:28:49
Speaker
Yeah, Dial of Destiny. Yeah, got it. yeah Indiana Jones with Shia LaBeouf. Fuck that. get That is not canon. I do not accept that the canon. Just him swinging through vines in a jungle like Tarzan almost eliminated him from this tournament. Yeah.
00:29:05
Speaker
um What's the Asian kid's name? Short Round. And he, I don't know. He's an Oscar winner. Wasn't he in, um, everything everywhere at once. He won an Oscar for that.
00:29:16
Speaker
Short Round has an Oscar. Harrison Ford does not. Wow. That's wild. That's wrong. I'd have to go with The Last Crusade as number one, purely because Sean Connery, I feel, absolutely makes that movie. Oh, good call. Yeah. Them as a pair, father and son pair. It's just so great to see. And then Raiders of the Lost Ark. And then the only reason Temple of Doom comes last is because Kate Capshaw is so fucking annoying. She's a huge liability. You nailed it. I don't even have to elaborate because you nailed the first three. I was undecided on all three of those, but Sean Connery moves it into number one. Kate Capshaw moves that to number three. You you nailed it. Good one.
00:29:56
Speaker
All right. Character time period. 1936 was when we saw him him debut. And then of course in the forties and all the way up to like the 1960s, oddly, and I don't, there's no really, really rhyme or reason for this. Raiders of the Lost Ark was in 1936. And then the sequel was actually a prequel. I don't, I did not know this. It's a prequel. There's no reason for it, but it is. today It was one year earlier and and there's really no reason for that. They make no reference to it in either movie. How did you find that out?
00:30:23
Speaker
so like I Googled it, man. what does All right. This is an important one here. Indy's background training skillset. What do we know? He was trained by Sean fucking Connery. James Bond.
00:30:35
Speaker
He was in the Boy Scouts. He's got a PhD in archaeology. We know that. He's also been referred to as an expert on the occult. About the only other thing that I can tell you is he's an absolute elite survivalist. He also has to be kind the.00001% in expertise on a bullwhip. He has to be number one in the world. Absolutely. Do you think he he has boxing? I mean, to me, he I don't know. He looks like a good brawler. but But I don't know if he has like actual boxing skills. He's just got a big knockout knockout punch. He's got lead in his gloves for sure.
00:31:06
Speaker
I mean, jumping to one of everyone's favorite scenes, apparently that scene was completely unplanned. So the sword fighter, that was the first movie, right? Raiders the Lost Ark? Yeah, because he he was chasing after Marion. When he pulls out that pistol and just takes that guy down after he does his big show, apparently the dude was furious. He had been training to be in this movie forever. And Harrison Ford just rolls his eyes and kapow. Do you know why he had to do that? I do. He was not feeling well.
00:31:32
Speaker
That's right. That day. So yeah, the whole lackadaisical nonchalant. Their filming location was pretty remote and they all had dysentery. Like everybody, all the whole cast had dysentery. So he had to like run to the bathroom every 10 minutes. So it's like he he couldn't do the prolonged scene and and boom, shot him. Classic.
00:31:58
Speaker
Should we run the gauntlet? Let's hit it. Keyboard carnage. Back at it. All right, I got one. Here it is. He survived a plane crash, giant boulders, snakes, and Nazis, and somehow still look like all the college chicks in his class wanted to bang him.
00:32:12
Speaker
Unreal. Big Dilf energy. I have a good one going back to the Kate Capshaw comment I heard earlier. User left a review mentioning Temple of Doom and then goes on to say, Kate Capshaw is the film's biggest liability. Oh. In the scene where she's being lowered into a fiery pit and Indiana is trying to save her, I always root for the fire.
00:32:37
Speaker
Moving on to They've Gone Too Far. All right, I've got a favorite one though. It's gotta be from definitely the most cult classic, Temple of Doom. When they're escaping from the airplane that's set on a collision course with a mountain, And he pulls the inflatable raft. They jump out of an airplane, land on the raft, into a snowbank, slide it down like a sled, into a river, and then go to a rural village for safety.
00:33:02
Speaker
That was wild. That was absolutely wild. I have a pretty good one too. I think it harkens back to chance Boudreaux who we did recently and even machete going back to season one where Indy grabs Willie. Who's the love interest in this one. i guess the second one, right?
00:33:20
Speaker
And just, they both jump out of a four or five story building. So just like chance Boudreaux did on the the moving freight train right through her off a bridge, he jumps out of a building. And they crash through awning after awning all their way down. And all of a sudden, instead of dying horribly, they just land gently on the last one. And from there, they flop perfectly into the backseat of a getaway car, which of course is being driven by like a toddler who Indy happens to know personally and trust with his life. Yeah.
00:33:51
Speaker
Love that. A lot of the user comments going back to keyboard kind of are just talking about how corny and unrealistic the film is. But I just think that makes that makes it.
00:34:02
Speaker
It does. I mean, I had Jordans with the raft later in the show to vividly promote what incredible skills that he has, survival skills and and and whatnot. So, yeah, I mean, that's how that's how into it I was. And I didn't think it was over the top yet. Yeah.
00:34:17
Speaker
All right, another one for your collection segment. oh Anything cool you guys would love to have? Yeah. I have one. It's got to be probably the most iconic, if not definitely one of the most iconic scenes, the golden statue.
00:34:32
Speaker
that he takes the beginning of Raiders of the Lost Ark. It's the classic scene that you're all used to where he has a bag of sand and he's trying to figure out how to lift the statue without triggering the booby traps that are inevitably going to go off if he doesn't get the weight of the sandbag right. That statue is really cool. I'm partial to cool trinkets up on my shelf, so that would be a cool one. That's a great one.
00:34:55
Speaker
Hey, Chris, that's a cool trick that you could actually have at home. I've seen this at a tiki bar before. You can find them online. You can get the golden idol as a tiki mug. Sick. There's so many great ones here. I'm just going to take the hat. I got to have the hat.
00:35:09
Speaker
Yep. Easy. I wanted to go with something that was ah not obvious. Well, there's there's there's three, and I'm glad you left me the last one I was prepared to talk about. i had to have it for my Halloween costume. I got one from the gold from the Goodwill, and it is his satchel.
00:35:25
Speaker
Yep. The satchel is so iconic that it didn't just debut in the Indiana Jones series. It debuted in The Hangover. Yes. Yes. What is that? A purse? It's not a man purse. It's a satchel. Indiana Jones had one.
Iconic Musical Scores Comparison
00:35:41
Speaker
Pop culture. You know it's big when it's in pop culture. Decades later. Yippee-ki-yay, motherfucker segment. One-liners, memorable monologues. The satchel is so iconic that just in the Indiana Jones series.
00:35:55
Speaker
Not a word was said, but it's just so iconic. The trumpets that Indy plays. That has to be one of the best musical scores in the entire podcast we're going to have here.
00:36:09
Speaker
there There's only there' only a couple I can think that will Yeah, Harrison Ford has been in two of the top three Star Wars as well. Yeah. Well, try to watch this thing with the sound muted, but closed caption. It is not the same without the music. This is just one of those movies that the music goes with it. It's like Jaws. It's like, any you know what i mean? It's just, that's part of it.
00:36:30
Speaker
The, a lot of the user reviews as well are complaining about how loud the films were and that there's just always music in the background and the music makes it, I feel like, you know, as to suspense, just, yeah, it's funny, funny observation. Yeah.
00:36:51
Speaker
All right, guys, these are such great characters. We could talk about these all night, but what we really have to kind of steer the conversation toward is this is gonna be a head-to-head battle here. Two great characters, two great movie franchises, but let's frame it in a sense that they're gonna be battling against each other. So let's kind of talk about that. And to to kick things off, I wanna be a little little bit critical of Sarah Connor and at least pose this question before we get started too far here.
00:37:20
Speaker
In Terminator 2, the entire kind of moral background ah of that movie was basically the quote, if a Terminator can learn the value of human life, maybe we can too.
00:37:32
Speaker
And maybe I'm paraphrasing there. I don't know. But what we see is even T-800, the Arnold character, the He spends the whole movie trying not to kill anyone. So here's the dilemma and a question. Does Sarah Connor get penalized in our tournament for not having a higher kill count?
00:37:49
Speaker
And in some moments, we even see her holders holding herself back from killing altogether. How do we feel about that? We've talked about it time and time again is a strength of schedule and seeing the opponents that these contestants have faced really comes into play. And like you said, if she's holding back, not willing to kill Indy, that could be her downfall.
00:38:10
Speaker
okay That being said though, these terminators are really hard to kill and she does end up killing them at the end of of the films. um But do we count ah t eight hundred as a as weapon?
00:38:24
Speaker
um Because if she's allowed to use a T-800 as a weapon, that's a big, big factor if she has one of those on her side. Oh man, that's interesting. Yeah.
00:38:35
Speaker
A dissenting opinion here. I'm going to say no, I'm not holding it against her. In fact, I'm giving it as a plus. And here's where I'm coming from here. I think that Sarah Connor demonstrates that she has the ability to kill. I think she is absolutely willing.
00:38:50
Speaker
The scene that most stands out to me is in Terminator 2, when she takes the doctor hostage and she has the syringe of like rat poison stuck into his neck. Oh, she is right about to kill that guy if anyone does any funny business.
00:39:03
Speaker
I think what it shows is that she has a level of control. Someone like Indy is shooting people because holy shit, stuff's about to go wrong. Let me kill you as fast as I can because I'm about to lose control the situation. Sarah Connor is so in control that she has the option to not kill people because she just has the situation so handled.
00:39:21
Speaker
I'm going to give that as a plus to Sarah Connor. Excellent, guys. I did not tell you that question in advance, and that was two great counter opinions. So now play devil's advocate there for Sarah Connor, right? And I asked you guys that question. I was a little bit critical, but let me make another argument in her favor here.
00:39:40
Speaker
Sarah Connor has the clear edge in firearms proficiency, if you ask me. Mm-hmm. Probably also, i mean, definitely also tactical weapons training and just really, truly formal hand-to-hand skills. I think she has the advantage in all of those. She doesn't fight wild. She fights trained, close quarters combat, controlled striking, and just really technique over chaos.
00:40:05
Speaker
Indy, on the other hand, survives because he's clever and insanely durable, but maybe the biggest thing for him He's extremely lucky. He takes such high risks and
Combat Style: Sarah vs. Indiana
00:40:16
Speaker
always makes it. Sarah survives because she's disciplined and methodical and lethal, and she was made that way. You could argue that Indy is a barroom brawler, and that's certainly some that Sarah's not.
00:40:29
Speaker
That's a really good point, and I wanted to build off that in speaking to Indy's battle experience. The killing that he has to do is really secondary to his main objective, which is to obtain these artifacts um and get answers and things and stop people from killing him. But Sarah Connor has to kill these Terminators to survive.
00:40:50
Speaker
That being considered, I would say that maybe Sarah Connor has the upper hand and Sarah Connor is more a killer than Indy is, even though she has fewer kills.
00:41:01
Speaker
Yeah, I also feel that Indiana Jones is absolutely flying by the seat of his pants. I'm trying to think back to all of these movies and the only times I've ever seen him create a plan, he's created it maybe five minutes before he's tried to execute it.
00:41:16
Speaker
So he's incredibly lucky, but he's also, he's great at improvisation. And you know, if I'm looking at how Sarah Connor Connor does with improvisation, she doesn't have the experience. She also doesn't need it because she thinks shit through, but Indiana Jones can get himself out of bind.
00:41:31
Speaker
You guys have any favorite moments in the movies for either character or signature scenes that we haven't discussed yet? Something in the context of, will it help us pick a winner? The problem with these series is that there's just so many moments and it's hard to pick one in particular.
00:41:47
Speaker
There was a very cool move that I'll throw out there. I love this one in a temple of doom. He's at a club or a restaurant or something. He picks up a flaming shish kebab skewer and he fires it across the room, like a javelin right into the chest of some poor sap kills him while he's trying to enjoy a delicious Moroccan meal or Mediterranean Chinese dinner.
00:42:11
Speaker
That's going for him, going against him. Boy, if Sarah Connor had to pick a weapon to fight Indiana Jones, she's got an ace in the hole. A snake, even a rubber snake. Fuck it. Indiana Jones completely off his game. Good point. He has an absolute kryptonite. Yes. Serious kryptonite. So Indiana Jones does have one thing that Sarah does not have. And that's, I'll call it global range experience.
00:42:37
Speaker
Jungles, deserts, frozen mountaintops, and of course, like booby trap tombs. He's taken on and won fights in every type of terrain that you could ever imagine. And that is the kind of adaptability that is something that Sarah hasn't really been pushed to match. Right. And that's not even to mention how much success he had with improvised weapons. Like you guys just mentioned, you know, shovels and rocks and bottles and like car parts and things like that. So does he have a path to victory? Oh yeah. Big time.
00:43:08
Speaker
Does anyone want to talk about that Cyberdyne factory assault from from Terminator 2? Do you remember that one? Oh, yeah. We did see in that Cyberdyne assault explosives expertise, demolition, improvisation of for for Sarah as well, and just very commanding presence when it comes to combat there. And I thought it felt it it showed her ability to think and and act under extreme chaos, but still kind of calm that chaos while it was happening.
00:43:36
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, she had the foresight to, they're getting gassed out with tear gas and she's sharing a gas mask with her son. They're taking turns breathing in and closing their eyes. Like she had the entire tactical plan planned out. Okay, we have one gas mask. Here's how we get through this. Then the truck comes in Here's how we unload and we still keep fighting. Like, yeah, it definitely felt like she was in control of the situation.
Indiana's Adaptability and X-Factor
00:44:00
Speaker
Let's move on to X-Factor. think Indiana Jones's X factor is his unpredictability. He's so good at improvising that whatever Connor throws at him, i do feel he would in some way be able to deal with.
00:44:15
Speaker
If she's able to surprise him, even if he's not ready, even if he doesn't have a plan, he's going to come out unscathed. You see that throughout the film. like Jordan said, never has a plan. He's riding by the seat of his pants and some might view that as a negative, but I really think it could be a positive, especially in this format. You're considering you're being hunted and you never know where the the danger is going to come from.
00:44:40
Speaker
Yeah, his adventures take him on twists and turns that really don't allow him to plan to the same degree that I feel like Sarah Connor has the option to plan. And so it just shows that Indiana Jones is constantly adapting. That's a great X factor right there. his flexibility and his improv.
00:44:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. He has no superhuman training. He has no elite military background and he has no special ops pedigree to speak of at all. He's, he's just like you know, he's a doctor. He's somehow excelled in a career of stealing artifacts and surviving traps that most people would not be able to survive. And it made me think of this. I mean, holy shit.
00:45:17
Speaker
Could he have survived Rambo's booby-trapped compound in in Rambo Last Blood? And before I watch this again closely, I'm like, oh, absolutely not. Nobody could survived that. But now I'm not so sure. And that is a kind of a mismatch, right? Where he doesn't have the training, but the results speak for themselves. And I like that. It makes him unpredictable. And I definitely, I do like his uniqueness in this tournament.
00:45:40
Speaker
Yeah, that that shows that he can defeat planning, where someone like Rambo has all that planned out. You think the opening scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark, as he's going through all those booby traps to get to the idol, it shows that he is smart enough to even get past people's planning ahead of time. Yep. Yeah, what's crazy about these two characters, their expertise is kind of counterintuitive.
00:46:04
Speaker
And despite not having that training, he still has 81 kills. And then on the flip side of that, Sarah Connor has all of this training, guerrilla warfare, weaponry expertise, and she only has two kills. It's kind of crazy to think about. Yeah, it is. Let's let's do talk about X Factor for Sarah Connor. and And there's one scene that comes to mind. It kind of demonstrates her absolute apex, which is the mental institution escape in Terminator 2.
00:46:29
Speaker
We've kind of talked about that already. She had the the s syringe to the guy's neck
Sarah Connor's Tactical Escape
00:46:33
Speaker
and whatnot. But when you look at the move by move, she's trapped in this facility. This thing is designed to do one thing, and that's contain her. locked doors, armed guards, heavy sedation, physical torture, mental torture. I mean, that's what this thing is supposed to do. Just contain her. Just the initial escape here. She plays possum. Remember that? When that creep, ah his name is Douglas. He licks her face.
00:46:56
Speaker
Boom. She spits out a paperclip or something out of her mouth, right? And so that she can unlock her restraints. And by the way, remember Hannibal Lecter did the same thing many, many years later. So Sarah Connor did it first where she kind of barfed up the the instrument to escape. But you can see her. She's she's moving silently, efficiently, and but she's totally relentless also. she's She's acting like she's drugged up in a zombie, but she's not. She's totally focused. And she's several steps ahead. And we see her dominating with, you know, really improvised weapons like fucking...
00:47:29
Speaker
I mean, she's manhandling all these different people. Anything can become a weapon. She's breaking people's arms. She's bashing in faces. What I like about this isn't just how physical she is, but it's her psychological dominance. I think she's anticipating moves and she's able to manipulate the guards and the orderlies that are in her way. And by the time her and John are moving through the hallways, she's not even reacting anymore. And I think this is important. I felt like she was orchestrating this as it was happening.
00:47:58
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like she demonstrated a high level of training there. When I think back to her being in the jungles of South America, training with paramilitary groups, things like that. One of the military training things that she had to be spending time doing is SEER training, S-E-R-E, survival, evasion, resistance, and escape. And that really embodies everything that she does. She is a survivor. She knows how to evade. She knows how to resist and fight back and escape to fight another day.
00:48:26
Speaker
She's not a She's not an assaulter. She's not a bruiser who's going head on. She's really embodying those seer skills to live another day. That's great call.
00:48:38
Speaker
All
00:48:42
Speaker
all right, guys, we've talked about two incredible characters from two amazing franchises. Do we have a winner? It's a really tough one, but I definitely do. Okay. Jordan, are you ready to do this?
00:48:55
Speaker
I'm ready. Okay. Start us off. Go for it. Okay. I'll go first. I mean, always the guy who ends up making someone lose. So I'll go first. Yeah. For me, this, the tournament always comes down to individual matchups and which skills we can verify on screen, either with our eyes or through unseen narrative. So it's possible that we hear about it when we don't see it.
00:49:16
Speaker
Which of these two is the most prepared for a true killer be killed encounter? Indiana Jones is, you know, I think at his core, he's an adventurer. His mission is always recover the artifact or escape the Nazis or survive a crazy booby trap, death trap type thing. And along the way, he shows some serious abilities, right? He's super tough. Pain tolerance is off the charts. And most impressively, he has an absolutely massive kill count that is very possibly higher than all my college professors combined.
00:49:50
Speaker
But Sarah Connor, on the other hand, she's something that's pretty different. She's a survivor. Her only mission is to stay alive and eliminate the threats of, God, the end of the world. But while Indy is always stumbling into danger, Sarah trains for this.
00:50:04
Speaker
She puts herself through years of guerrilla warfare training. She's expert in firearms and demolitions. And we know this because she has a reputation that's preceded her by the time Terminator 2 comes around.
00:50:15
Speaker
The biggest knock on her record is actually that she tries not to kill humans, which is admirable, but it's kind of irrelevant. So when you strip away all the noise and you look at what each fighter brings in this self-contained battle, I feel the picture really changes. Okay. Indy's greatest feats often rely on insane risk-taking, luck, or you know even bending the laws of physics. Sarah's greatest feats rely on skill, preparation, and just cold execution. And when the question is, who is more prepared to win a controlled one-on-one kill or be killed battle?
00:50:48
Speaker
In my opinion, only one has the verified resume and tactical discipline. that leads me to believe that Sarah Connor is the winner of this. So I think this is an upset, but I'm taking Sarah Connor. I think she's the answer here.
00:51:02
Speaker
That's a good take, Steve. It's a really great summary of both. When I started, i knew for sure that Indiana Jones was going to win because I was Indiana Jones for Halloween as a child. And I've watched those movies a hundred times more than I've watched the Terminator movies.
00:51:19
Speaker
So they're not biased at all, not biased at all. And going into this, here's how I see this happening. They get their letters, right? They're supposed to meet up. They know about this ahead of time. Indiana Jones doesn't know who Sarah Connor is.
00:51:32
Speaker
And when he sees her, just like all the Indiana Jones movies, it's the James Bond female trope where it's like, I'm going to woo you and you are going to be my side character.
00:51:44
Speaker
And I see that being his approach. I don't know how they're going to get into it, but I'm absolutely with Steve. When it comes to having all the tactical fighting skills, yeah, and hand-to-hand, I think that Indiana Jones is going to take her out. But in absolutely everything else, I've got to give it to Sarah Connor. She she is truly a warrior. You know, the whole thing about, oh, it's better to be ah a warrior in the garden than a gardener in a war. yeah Sarah Connor is the warrior in a garden, and Indiana Jones is the gardener in a war.
00:52:15
Speaker
Excellent point. Really, really good points, Jordan. I thought for sure at least one of you was going to take Indy. I, like Jordan, grew up watching the films, was obsessed with them. So to think that after Vote Against Indiana Jones was really hard for me. He's such a classic character. His adventuring, um his improvisation... his plot armor he's almost untouchable and when he needs to fight back he does and he does so very well that being said and we've talked about it is that he's very reactive he doesn't plan for for these things he just sort of reacts once they're in his face could he withstand someone like sarah connor as opposed to what we see in the films is somewhat a very slapstick opponent.
00:53:02
Speaker
You know, the Nazis or the cult followers that he's fighting against, um his opponents just aren't at the level of what Sarah Connor brings. Then when you move to Sarah Connor, you see that she has all this formal training and you add on top of that her opponents, which are devastatingly brutal, time-traveling killer robots. There's just no question who... I think would come out on top when it certainly is Sarah Connor.
00:53:31
Speaker
Unbelievable.
Conclusion: Sarah Connor Wins
00:53:32
Speaker
As a consolation prize to Indiana Jones, is it fair to say it's a better series? Yeah. Yeah. it's Yes. Yes. How many times have you watched the Terminator movies and how many times have you watched the Indiana Jones movies?
00:53:45
Speaker
Indiana Jones, you can just indiana watch it anytime. yeah But this is incredible. 3-0. I thought I was really pulling off an upset here with Sarah Connor. I'm happy that she won. But um it's one of those things. It just happens. GSP loses to Matt Serra.
00:54:00
Speaker
Or when... You know, or when Fedor Emelianenko loses his first fight, you know, I mean, these are things that it's like, oh man, this is historic. And I feel like we have a historic win here and we will not be taking any criticism on this because Sarah Connor wins. It is a goddamn fact.
00:54:18
Speaker
Here's how we got to wrap this up. I'm bummed that Indy's not here, but i don't think his legacy is going to end here.
Teasers for Future Matchups
00:54:24
Speaker
I'm giving a spoiler to an upcoming season. Who do we have coming in the bracket? No other than the female counterpart to Indiana Jones, Laura Croft, another top female action star, Angelina Jolie, an absolute badass and pretty much the female version of Indiana Jones, possibly even more badass in terms of her action moves.
00:54:45
Speaker
Awesome. Yes. We'll be back. Thank you for listening to the fictional fighting championship podcast, the world's premier destination for very serious conversations about completely made up fights produced by Chris Doherty against his better judgment.