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Dressing Is A Visual Pastime with Eric Langois
132 Plays7 days ago
This week, the super kind, super smart Eric Langois (pronounced LANG-WAH) in the studio! We talked about the American South via Asheville, NC, novelty ties, dressing for church, inspiration, chambray, The Andover Shop, writing, Hercule Poiroit, trains, the rules of menswear, vanity and hubris, and hogshead more!
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Show
00:00:03
Conor Fowler
Good afternoon and welcome. I am Connor Flower, co-host.
00:00:09
matt
And I am Matt Smith, the other co-host.
00:00:11
Conor Fowler
And this is Apocalypse Does.
Introduction of Guest: Eric Langwa
00:00:13
Conor Fowler
You know, I always say like, this is a long time coming. Like, we've been doing this for a long time because we have been doing it for a long time and we have been in talks about this for quite some time.
00:00:23
Conor Fowler
But we welcome a not just another menswear person, someone who I talk to on a regular basis.
Eric Langwa's Background and Hometown
00:00:32
Conor Fowler
and fucked up his last name anyway um we have eric langwa here in studio welcome
00:00:42
matt
Welcome.
00:00:42
Eric
Thank you, thank you for having me.
00:00:44
matt
Yeah, yeah. ah how How's your day going so far?
00:00:48
Eric
It's going all right. You know, nice to take a little break in my work day for this.
00:00:53
matt
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you work from home?
00:00:56
Eric
ah Part of the week and it just so happens it's ah today's a good opportunity to to hop on with you guys instead of doing my normal work.
00:00:57
matt
Okay.
00:01:06
matt
Nice. Nice. So, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:01:07
Conor Fowler
We love to hear it.
00:01:08
matt
We we like to be the time wasters, you know.
00:01:13
matt
Um, well, Eric, just to, uh, just to get into it, um, where are you from and where are you now?
00:01:13
Eric
Always good.
Asheville's Cultural and Musical Influence
00:01:19
Eric
So I'm from Asheville, North Carolina, originally. i was born and raised down there.
00:01:22
matt
Woo!
00:01:26
Eric
And now I'm in Salem, Massachusetts, which is not unlike Asheville when it comes down to it.
00:01:31
matt
Right, right. I've never been to Salem. I've heard very good things, though.
00:01:34
Conor Fowler
Me neither.
00:01:36
Eric
it's ah It's a wonderful little town. like I always say it punches above its weight in terms of like food in particular. like The quality of restaurants around here is great.
00:01:43
matt
Right.
00:01:44
Conor Fowler
Hmm.
00:01:47
Eric
And it's just 40 minutes outside Boston, right on the sea. It's great. I would not recommend coming here in October and during the... during the
00:01:57
matt
Yeah. Yeah. I have, I've been there or I've been in Massachusetts and in I know you mean because of the witch shit I'm assuming for October, but like,
00:02:07
Conor Fowler
Oh, so that's so funny. I was just going to say, oh, because you're having witch trials. And then I'm like, oh I got it I got it.
00:02:12
matt
ah yeah
00:02:14
Conor Fowler
They're having witch trials in a big way down there.
00:02:17
matt
Right. i've I've spent many winter in the Northeast and it is it is not for the faint of heart, for sure.
00:02:23
Eric
Yeah, we had a we had a nasty winter this year. But no, during the October season, it's crazy. The commuter rail, they have to like line people up to get on the train for Salem. I used to commute on the train and like the Friday before Halloween, I'd be there in my little suit and tie and everyone's like dressed in their their costumes and I'm just like, I want to go home.
00:02:44
matt
Ha ha ha ha!
00:02:44
Conor Fowler
What's your, they ask you what your costume was.
00:02:47
Eric
No, I think they could tell from the look on my face that I was not there to party.
00:02:50
Conor Fowler
They figure you were not dressed up as Don Draper, you were dressed as a person genuinely working.
00:02:56
Eric
yeah dressed as a guy who was had a long had had a long week and was ready to go home.
00:03:02
matt
Oh, yeah. have you ah Have you been to Asheville recently? like Do you go back from time to time?
00:03:08
Eric
um've been i went um about a year and a half ago. my My parents are still down there, so I don't get down there that
Eric's Nostalgia and Family Influence on Fashion
00:03:17
Eric
often, but relatively recently.
00:03:17
matt
Right, right.
00:03:20
matt
Yeah, I went to a... I don't know if I've ever been to Asheville until this past December, and it's ah it's a cute-ass little town. I didn't really have a... I went for a show and didn't really have time to like hang out, but it was, yeah, it seems, you know, it seems cool.
00:03:32
Conor Fowler
It's really beautiful.
00:03:35
matt
And like, there's cool, like cultural things. And like, I know the music scene and and whatnot is great there for like a variety of, of acts and genres.
00:03:45
matt
So,
00:03:47
Eric
Yeah, I mean, great, great musical culture. It's like and a very pretty area. And it was a really nice place to grow up in. I was thinking about it the other day and I was like, you know, when you're a kid, you sort of assume that most towns have like a downtown with like lots of beautiful art deco buildings and like a street festival every year. And it turns out that's not actually the case. I just got lucky.
00:04:12
matt
Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah.
00:04:12
Conor Fowler
no for real i mean that's like the i don't want to say the annapolis thing but kind of like the annapolis thing and i was there famously to go to rehab for like four months um and long story short my job was to drive the 15 passenger van i was driving everyone to and from their workplaces you know and so i just drove around ashville like chain smoking my grandmother smuggled me like an aux cable.
00:04:47
Conor Fowler
Because I was like, listen, if you ship this thing to me, like they're not going to know what it is because I wasn't supposed to have my phone, but I did.
00:04:51
Eric
Yeah,
00:04:54
matt
Right.
00:04:55
Conor Fowler
Well, it's like you got to have music. You can't be fucking driving around and listening to the radio for eight hours.
00:05:02
Eric
yeah if you're gonna be in the car all day.
00:05:02
matt
True.
00:05:04
Conor Fowler
Exactly. oh Exactly.
Fashion Inspiration from British Media
00:05:06
Conor Fowler
So it cut me some slack. So you were talking about the art deco buildings in downtown Asheville. What kind of so clothing did you see while you were growing up in Asheville? I mean,
00:05:18
Eric
So like Asheville's like but at the time in particular, it was like a full of old hippies. That was the the vibe of the town. i remember like the bookstore that my parents used to take me to was run by these like this old Wicca couple who was like, you know, into sort of modern witchcraft and stuff.
00:05:37
Eric
Also just ran ah ran a lovely bookstore that had a Christmas party every year. um So it was like a lot of that, a lot of like rope sandals and tie dye, like every store smelled like patchouli for a long time.
00:05:43
Conor Fowler
That's funny.
00:05:51
Eric
um There was like up until about, i think, five years ago, there was a like traditional like trad menswear store, Hunter and Coggins, RIP, they closed down.
00:06:07
Conor Fowler
Oh, it's gone?
00:06:08
Eric
it's gone unfortunately i i i regret now that i didn't like try and get a job with them in high school or something because that would have been that would have been cool but um we we would get like get my dad you know christmas
00:06:08
Conor Fowler
Damn. I was looking it up.
Eric's Career Path in Fashion
00:06:21
Eric
gifts there sometimes um yeah i as far as i can tell they're no longer open but yeah every so often i will pull up their website and check uh if i'm wrong in
00:06:23
Conor Fowler
It looks like their website is still up.
00:06:32
Conor Fowler
Yeah, because this looks this looks kind of like the menswear store in Baltimore. Like ah the the website layout, I mean, is very like you took a web design class in high school and made a website.
00:06:40
Eric
oof
00:06:46
Eric
absolutely yeah it's a very like 2002 era website
00:06:50
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:06:50
matt
Right, right. right
00:06:52
Eric
but yeah that was ah it was a great little great little store very cool and like there was a ah good amount of like vintage good there were a good amount of vintage stores in asheville and sort of like I wasn't really into clothes until after college that much, but I did like pick up a few like interesting jackets and stuff because my sister was more into i have an older sister and she was more into vintage shopping um when we were in like high school and college.
00:07:22
Eric
um And now, of course, like the town's. it's you know gentrified significantly. And like there's a lot more sort of you know opportunities for clothing.
00:07:33
Eric
There's a lot fewer opportunities for good thrifting as it as it goes.
00:07:36
Conor Fowler
right right that's it's a the take a point on the globe
00:07:38
matt
Right, right.
00:07:40
matt
Yeah. where Was your dad, you you mentioned buying, you know, gifts and things for your dad at that shop. Was he like, was he a ah dresser, you know, like, or just kind of wore what he had to for work or whatever?
00:07:54
Eric
Yeah, no, my dad, he ah he's a retired family physician. So he was mainly dressing like for practicality. He was dressing a lot of like, you sort of Joseph A. Bank machine washable ah dress shirt or button down shirts and and things like that. There's more more in terms of like stuff that he could just sort of wear all day and that would survive like, you know, the various stains that doctors get on stuff.
00:08:22
matt
Right, right.
00:08:22
Eric
um
00:08:22
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:08:23
Eric
He's like, yeah, my dad is not like a big clothing guy. Like he, he has like a certain amount of, of um a certain amount of just taste, I think from, you know, growing up in like the sixties, but not that he's not that interested in in clothing, but you know, we would find him like some nice, like a nice coat or something at Hunter and Coggins.
00:08:45
matt
Yeah.
00:08:47
Eric
And that was always like a ah nice treat for him too.
00:08:50
matt
Nice. Did he, as part of the job, kind of have the like stereotypical you know doctor like lab coat thing that he wore a lot a while he was working, just out of curiosity?
00:09:03
Eric
No, usually he'd just be in like shirt and tie, and he had like a selection of sort of like fairly tasteful novelty ties with like little little guys on them of whatever kind.
00:09:13
matt
Oh, nice.
00:09:13
Conor Fowler
Sure, sure.
00:09:14
Eric
you know it's That's always good, especially when you're working with kids. You can be like, you know I'm going to give you a shot and look at what's on my tie.
00:09:18
Conor Fowler
Right. we Right, exactly.
00:09:20
matt
Right, right.
00:09:21
Eric
um
00:09:22
matt
It's true.
00:09:23
Eric
But yeah no its yeah, just sort of like ah like an office casual kind of thing.
00:09:28
matt
Right.
Eric's Writing Journey and Substack
00:09:30
Eric
I have memories of him, of course, like coming home in in scrubs with his clothes like balled up under his arm because something happened, you know.
00:09:37
matt
Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. that it It does do that sometimes, I'm sure.
00:09:42
Eric
hmm.
00:09:43
matt
ah So what's the, you know, you mentioned not really being into clothes much until after college. Like, what was the first, I don't know, the first, like, clothing item that really, like, so you know, sparked the fire?
00:09:57
Eric
yeah well i i mean i would it's not that now that i say it it's not that i wasn't into clothes like i was interested in clothes when i was younger and like i did enjoy like dressing for church like i would like choose to wear like a jacket and tie to church like when i was in like middle school high school um
00:10:07
matt
Okay, yeah.
00:10:19
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:10:21
Eric
But and um and I think part of that is like I get so much of my clothing inspiration from like movies and TV. And that's really always been the case.
00:10:33
Eric
I grew up watching a lot of like PBS and stuff. My parents usually had, usually would watch like British television on PBS. So I grew up watching like the A&E Hercule Poirot series with David Suchet.
00:10:40
matt
Oh, yeah.
00:10:45
Conor Fowler
Hercule Poirot. Yes.
00:10:48
Eric
And like, yeah, the the clothes in that were so fantastic. Captain Hastings, like suits and hats were that was peak for me.
00:10:53
Conor Fowler
They really Yeah. yeah. oh yeah
00:10:57
Eric
And that absolutely like got me got me into clothing at ah at an earlier age, got me interested in it. Yeah. But also, you know, when you're in high school and you're like going to school, you don't want to dress like too distinctively. I did have this top coat that I, and and I still do, this top coat that I inherited from my grandfather. Just a nice sort of like 60s top coat with a fly front, very subtle, dark herringbone pattern.
00:11:27
Conor Fowler
Sure.
00:11:28
Eric
And I would wear that ah to school in in high school in the winter. And that was probably like the piece of clothing that you know brought me more into dressing.
00:11:40
matt
Hell yeah.
00:11:41
matt
Wait, and you said.
00:11:41
Conor Fowler
And that's like that type of that type of subtlety in a garment like I feel is not really for sale anymore.
00:11:51
Conor Fowler
You know, like a dark pattern, like a sort of subtle if you know, you know.
00:11:58
Eric
Yeah, absolutely.
00:12:00
matt
It's for sale.
00:12:00
Eric
i mean
00:12:01
matt
You just have to pay out the ass to get it made to measure.
00:12:02
Conor Fowler
Exactly. Exactly.
00:12:04
Eric
Yeah, you got to know know where has like that that design or or where you can get that material and have it made, absolutely.
00:12:12
matt
Yeah, I was actually talking about this. I had a market yesterday, a vintage market. And i was talking to some friends about how like, like the vast majority of clothing, especially in the I'm just speaking for,
Social Media and Content Creation Challenges
00:12:26
matt
you know, being in the States is so fucking bland at this point. Like everything just looks like I don't know. I feel like this this kind of.
00:12:35
matt
ah kind of resonates with other, um you know, other things as well, like cars, et cetera. But like everything just looks so like, so yeah I don't even, i don't want to say basic because basic, you know, is not inherently bad, but like everything just kind of looks the same and nondescript.
00:12:42
Eric
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:12:51
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:12:55
matt
Nondescript is a great, great word for it.
00:12:56
Conor Fowler
Well, it's like it's not being designed by someone.
00:13:00
matt
Yeah. And I mean, you know, granted, making menswear is not, is very rarely reinventing the wheel, but like, you know, every, I haven't been to a mall in a while, but like the stuff that I see from mall brands and like, you know, Target and Macy's and everything. Like, it's just, it all looks the fucking same to me.
00:13:21
Eric
Yeah, I mean, that for a while everyone was like talking about quiet luxury and how it's like, you get like the t shirt and the ball cap and like they look like every other t shirt and ball cap, but they're made of like hand carded merino or something.
00:13:22
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:13:28
matt
Right, right.
00:13:37
matt
Right.
00:13:37
Conor Fowler
Well, it's like, and then people will think that you're rich and if they think that you're rich, they're stupid.
00:13:44
Conor Fowler
Like if they think that you're like quiet luxury shit makes you look like you're rich, you're an idiot.
00:13:50
matt
I mean, one of one of the, you know, forerunners of the quiet luxury of the past 15 years just got bought by Sheehan. So, you know, yeah we, I think so too.
00:13:57
Eric
ah huh
00:13:58
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:13:59
Eric
Yeah, I think that might be dead. I think people might be interested in in like textures and details again.
00:14:07
matt
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:14:07
Conor Fowler
Good.
00:14:08
matt
I mean, i like, yeah, I, you know, I sell a lot of like military stuff.
00:14:08
Conor Fowler
And good riddance. Good riddance.
00:14:14
matt
I mean, I sell stuff that I find interesting, but like, you know, yesterday I sold three pairs of overalls, one camo.
00:14:15
Eric
hmm.
00:14:21
matt
I sold like four pairs of camo pants to to women, which is awesome. And, you know, like, I feel like even, you know, even the, the like, Younger
Menswear Culture Evolution and Personal Style
00:14:32
matt
crowd, the because I'm, you know, we sell to high school kids and college kids and stuff, but like they're, they're starting to be, you know, the ones that get it, they're very interested in kind of forming their own style.
00:14:37
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:14:45
matt
And, you know, taking risks and being like, Oh, this is this is dope. And it's not just a basic ass t shirt.
00:14:52
Eric
Yeah, I think that's great. I think it's great that people are like, you know, looking closely at what they're what they're buying and like seeing that, you know, these details that are there.
00:15:03
matt
Right.
00:15:04
Eric
and One of the things like I wear a lot of work where i have a too many chambray work shirts and
00:15:10
matt
There's never no such thing as too many.
00:15:12
Eric
ah I mean, I plan to wear them until they fall apart, so there's that.
00:15:12
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:15:13
Conor Fowler
Oh, yeah.
00:15:17
Eric
But like the thing that I love about those is like all the different sort of pocket combinations you can get with them. You have like the you know sort of double breast pockets. You have like a little pen pocket in one.
00:15:28
Eric
You can have the cigarette pocket on the on the left breast, that kind of thing.
00:15:32
matt
yes
00:15:33
Eric
All the different like you know triple stitching on the yoke or like the full yoke. reinforcement, all of that stuff. Like if if I see something that's a little different, I'm like, well, I got to have that one too.
00:15:45
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:15:45
matt
Right, right. i'm a I'm a huge fan of the pen.
00:15:47
Conor Fowler
And that's like being a collector, you know?
00:15:49
Eric
Mm-hmm.
00:15:50
matt
The pen pocket is unrivaled to me because I carry a pen with me every single day.
00:15:52
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I love the Benvaca. I put my vape in it. I mean, not a not not a nicotine vaporizer, like a regular weed one, to be clear.
00:16:03
Eric
Mm-hmm.
00:16:03
matt
Yeah. Well, you should get yourself a solid pen, dude. that it's It'll change your life.
00:16:07
Conor Fowler
I have a pen. I have a great pen. I have a pen. I have a fountain pen actually, which is like so fucking nice. Like if you wrote with it, Matt, you would be like, oh wow. Cause my mom wrote with it and she was like, I have to have one of these.
00:16:19
Conor Fowler
And now she only writes with it.
00:16:19
matt
God.
00:16:21
Conor Fowler
My mom is a writer. So it's like her shit, you know?
00:16:23
Eric
Yeah.
00:16:24
Conor Fowler
ah But it's very like, I don't know. I'll show it sometime. It's like, it's like metal. It's like, sh that's fucking nice.
00:16:36
matt
Yeah, yeah. I will promote the the standard. I think it's the 847 model Karen Dash pens. And I will use those until the end of time.
00:16:45
Eric
no
00:16:47
matt
They're just like the best ballpoint pen in the world. They're Swiss made. They're metal. They hold up. They come in great colors. my favorite My favorite being the number two pencil yellow.
00:16:54
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:16:58
matt
That's what I've carried for God, for fucking ever now.
00:17:03
Conor Fowler
that's a nice pen that's like uh yeah this one this hung hung john is like 25 bucks i think but
00:17:05
matt
And they're like $35.
00:17:08
Eric
That's nice.
00:17:13
Conor Fowler
I never had a fountain pen before, but I really like it writes because my handwriting is shitty and like my hands shake all the time.
00:17:19
matt
Right.
00:17:20
Conor Fowler
So like it's ah I
Fashion Rules and Personal Expression
00:17:24
Conor Fowler
don't know. It seems to write more smoothly. But anyway.
00:17:26
matt
Nice. Anyway. So, ah Eric, we we know that you ah spent some time in the Andover shop as an employee. And, you know, i'm I'm assuming most people that listen to the show probably know the Andover shop and and, you know, they're they're one of the most revered, like, traditional men's stores in the country.
00:17:37
Eric
Yeah.
00:17:47
matt
um Yeah. how How did that come to be?
00:17:50
Eric
Yeah, so my my career a story is a little a little all over the place. as i After college, I had no fucking idea what I wanted to do with my life. Yeah.
00:18:04
matt
As it seems to go a lot of times.
00:18:04
Eric
yeah Yeah, I came out of out of college with a literature degree, aye went went in mr a went in working on an international relations major, came out with a literature degree, had no idea what I wanted to do besides a vague idea that I wanted to like write fiction.
00:18:10
Conor Fowler
Oh, yeah. know about that.
00:18:24
matt
Okay.
Conclusion and Importance of Creative Expression
00:18:25
Eric
And then i ended up, my girlfriend who I'm now married to moved up to Boston to go to grad school. And so I ended up just hopping a train with all of my bags and coming up and moving up to Boston, which was a very, very cool experience.
00:18:38
matt
Nice.
00:18:42
Eric
I recommend doing a long distance move on a train if you can. it's
00:18:47
Conor Fowler
ah
00:18:47
Eric
It's exciting.
00:18:47
matt
Yeah, yeah. I took Spirit Airlines when I moved to New York. Just a one-way ticket and like two suitcases and a duffel bag. But the train sounds much more enjoyable. Totally.
00:18:58
Eric
I mean, a little more leg room. I didn't have a sleeper compartment or anything, but it was ah it was still like still pretty good.
00:19:06
matt
Totally.
00:19:07
Eric
but And then, so I was...
00:19:07
Conor Fowler
You can't get the like Hercule Poirot type train anymore. Can you write like with the dining car that isn't like hoes?
00:19:18
Eric
Yeah, not really. I mean, they're like the... the The Orient Express, they still do like a, it's like it's a luxury like cruise essentially on a train.
00:19:30
Eric
You can do that.
00:19:30
matt
Right, right.
00:19:31
Eric
You can do the same thing in like you know parts of South America and Southeast Asia and probably here in in North America too, but it's not like a regular train service.
00:19:42
Eric
You don't have like a nice dining car on, I think, any regular train service anymore.
00:19:48
matt
ah
00:19:49
Conor Fowler
I was so surprised when I went to Europe because I was like, I'm going to ride the train. It's going to be like wooden. There's going to be like nice, like upholstered seats, you know, but like, no, not, not at all. It was very, ah they didn't even have liquor.
00:20:07
Conor Fowler
And that's like a travesty.
00:20:07
Eric
yeah no it's a comedown you you can't like go to the smoking car and like have a have a cigar and a scotch that's very disappointing
00:20:13
Conor Fowler
Right. Right. It's extremely disappointing. Like, I was like 21 and I was ready to get fucked up on a train.
00:20:24
Conor Fowler
And I did still, but it right right it was it was less
00:20:24
matt
We used to,
00:20:24
Eric
I mean, that is that is still possible, believe me.
00:20:27
matt
yeah
00:20:28
Eric
i studied a I studied abroad in in Edinburgh, and like it is entirely possible to still get fucked up on a train in Europe.
00:20:37
Conor Fowler
Oh yeah, it just is less.
00:20:39
Eric
But not in the Urquiporo kind of way.
00:20:40
Conor Fowler
Yeah, it's not in a crystal glass. Yeah.
00:20:45
Eric
But so, yeah, so I moved up up here and I was working for Williams Sonoma, the you know kitchen kitchen cooking company, just like selling stuff and working their stock room.
00:20:51
Conor Fowler
Sure.
00:20:56
Eric
And I happened to live in a neighborhood that had a hat shop in it called Salmagundi. And I was like, it was like, you know, nice fedoras and stuff.
00:21:03
Conor Fowler
Hmm.
00:21:06
Eric
um And they do they do like derby hats for for women for the for the like race season and stuff. So I was like, well, this is something that I'm more interested in than Williams-Sonoma.
00:21:15
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:21:21
Eric
So I ended up working for them for a year. um And then pivoted to like office admin stuff, worked at Harvard Business School for a while, just like you know being ah an office admin in the in the dean's office there, um just a job that I fell into.
00:21:41
Eric
And then when I got laid off from Harvard, um the Andover shop happened to be hiring. And at the time, I was like, and maybe it's time to pivot back to menswear. Maybe it's time to pivot back to clothing.
00:21:55
matt
Right,
00:21:55
Eric
um So I went in there with you know a reasonable amount of of knowledge about menswear just from my my you know own sort of... scrolling the internet and then like an inordinate amount of knowledge about hats of which they sold like two.
00:22:12
Eric
um
00:22:12
matt
right.
00:22:13
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:22:14
Eric
But yeah, it was it was an interesting time in that that's at that store too, because when I was hired, I was hired at the same time as Zoe Burnett, who you you had on the podcast previously.
00:22:26
matt
Yeah.
00:22:27
Eric
She's a really, really great friend of mine. um and we were both brought on like immediately after or very shortly after charlie davidson had sold the company uh he was still alive at the time but um r.i.p charlie uh he had just sold it to uh some local businessmen who wanted to sort of keep it running um
00:22:40
matt
Right. Yeah. RIP, Charlie.
00:22:52
Eric
And so they were in the process of like trying to update things slightly. And that was kind of the experience the whole time that I was there is that like they were like, okay, when when I arrived, like the first week they were still writing receipts by hand.
00:23:02
matt
yeah
00:23:10
Eric
And like they had the little, the credit card reader where it's not even a credit card reader. You put it in the tray and you slide the thing across it and the carbon paper like makes a mark on the receipt.
00:23:16
matt
oh gosh yeah
00:23:21
Eric
like um i don't think i ended up doing that because immediately like like i said a week after i got there they they uh hooked up a uh digital payment uh point of sale system but it was like you know adding just sort of adding these things trying to bring it into the 21st century trying to turn advance things from like 1984
00:23:43
matt
Oh,
00:23:44
Conor Fowler
Ah.
00:23:47
Eric
um But the first day I was there, Larry, who was running the shop, he opens up the files and he pulls out one file and hands it to me. And i open it up and it's an order, a a custom order for a jacket from Miles Davis.
00:24:07
matt
ah holy shit.
00:24:09
Eric
Yeah. And that was like the coolest thing that happened the whole time I was there. It was like really, really started on a high note.
00:24:14
Conor Fowler
Eh heh!
00:24:16
Eric
But that was that was just so cool to see. There's the whole story, I'm sure some of the listeners know about Miles Davis playing gigs in Boston and coming to the Andover shop and buying Ivy style clothing from the Andover shop.
00:24:37
Eric
And that's such a part of the mythology of Ivy style and of that era of jazz.
00:24:37
matt
Right.
00:24:46
matt
Totally. Man, that's that sounds like such a cool experience. I had a similar one, but not nearly as cool. um And, in you know, not in a place like the Andover shop. So, yeah, it's a it's funny how, like, because what what years would this have been?
00:25:05
Eric
That was from, i started in 2019 and then unfortunately, you know, COVID happened.
00:25:08
matt
Okay.
00:25:12
matt
Right, right.
00:25:12
Conor Fowler
And
00:25:13
Eric
So but I was there through into 2021. So
00:25:18
matt
Okay.
00:25:18
Eric
um so about two years, give or take.
00:25:22
matt
Right.
00:25:23
Eric
And it was you know an interesting experience because they were they were changing and updating the store um and renovating the the Harvard Square location while I was there. And then, of course, then COVID happens and i end up working kind of what turned what ends up being like a warehouse job where Zoe and I are just like in the...
00:25:48
Eric
uh the store in andover no one else is there um no one can like go out to stores and we're just hanging out and waiting for online orders to come in so that we can package them up and like leave them on the step for for ups
00:25:56
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:26:03
matt
Right.
00:26:05
matt
Yeah, what a...
00:26:05
Eric
it was it was an extremely surreal couple of months like uh april may of 2020 was that was a very weird time of my life
00:26:09
matt
Oh, I can imagine.
00:26:15
matt
Yeah, well, I mean, at least you had something keeping you, you know, on some sort of, like, normal schedule.
00:26:23
Eric
yeah Yeah. Yeah, had a job. I had ah like a place to go and something to do during the day. So I can't complain too much.
00:26:29
matt
Right, right. Yeah, totally. Totally. So ah let's get into to your writing and the sub stack. You know, you mentioned wanting to to write fiction.
00:26:42
matt
um And, you know, both Connor and I have gone through most of most of the articles you posted up and they're the writing is fantastic. And it's also, you know, the it's also not just about clothes, in which we we very much enjoyed.
00:26:59
matt
um So what was the inspiration behind it?
00:27:03
Eric
So i um I enjoy writing, clearly. um And it was, um i didn't have much of an outlet for a long time. i you know I did some writing for myself, but it's kind of hard to to set yourself in a like a writing habit necessarily.
00:27:25
matt
Right.
00:27:26
Eric
It depends on, you know depends on the person, but like I, I don't work well without a deadline. and I never have. And it's hard for me to kind of self-motivate in that way.
00:27:26
Conor Fowler
Oh, yeah.
00:27:38
Eric
um I've, you know so i was I've written some like fiction books, for myself that you know has not not really gone anywhere. And for a long time, my main sort of writing outlet was just writing for the like tabletop adventure Dungeons and Dragons style games that I do with with friends.
00:27:57
Eric
so I would write for that.
00:27:57
matt
Okay.
00:27:59
Eric
um And I did a little writing for the Andover shop. I wrote some blog articles for them and some some copy, some ad copy for their their website.
00:28:12
Eric
But I was looking for an outlet, looking for just something something to do with myself, something to write. And I ended up, I am writing some blog posts for Reg Ferguson, who has the New York Fashion Geek.
00:28:31
Eric
um
00:28:31
matt
Right.
00:28:31
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:28:31
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:28:32
Eric
that Instagram account and his writing for his, the blog on his website for his, his business. And I was enjoying that. I was doing like ah two, two articles a month, an article a month.
00:28:44
Eric
And then I was like, you know, I'm writing this for someone else's outlet and I have to be sort of careful about like how I write and what I write. You know, it I can't just sort of write whatever I want.
00:28:56
Eric
And I was like, you know I knew some people who have substacks, and I was like, you know what do you think about this as just a place to like have a blog?
00:29:07
Eric
And it seemed like a ah good a good format just to write on. And so I thought you know I might as well just kind of throw something at the wall and see what happens.
00:29:21
Eric
I didn't go into it with any particular objective, but like
00:29:22
matt
Right.
00:29:26
Eric
I you know wanted to have something kind of creative to do for myself. And just the I decided to to set up a substack and to start writing. um kind of I have my Instagram where I just post pictures of my my outfits. And so I was like, this gives me a kind of longer form place to explore a sort of ah things that I'm, what I'm wearing or like what I'm thinking about, like different kinds of clothes and stuff.
00:29:55
matt
Right.
00:29:58
matt
Hell yeah. And we've, I think we've talked about it before, but you know, ah it's funny how I guess Substack, Substack to me as someone that was like kind of in online menswear spaces starting in like 2006, it's very similar to like a blog spot Tumblr era stuff where like,
00:30:22
matt
you know, long form writing and, and things of that nature are seeming to make like a return. And yeah, I'm, I a hundred percent back it.
00:30:34
Eric
Yeah, I think that there's ah a reaction that people are having, and a negative reaction to short form stuff. People are feeling often kind of a repulsion to just like the endless scroll of like small Instagram, you know, posts or of a short form video that people are, people are looking for something else.
00:30:51
matt
Right.
00:30:59
matt
Yeah, we also don't want to make fucking videos.
00:30:59
Eric
And that, yeah, yeah.
00:31:02
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:31:03
matt
Like, it's it's annoying. And like, I, you know, i'm I take photographs of clothes to try to sell them. And I'm not like, I'm not, you know, going to make a three minute video with me talking for no fucking reason.
00:31:16
Conor Fowler
We're very blessed to have Jamal who does know how to make videos and makes videos for us because otherwise
00:31:21
matt
Oh, God. Yeah, yeah. Jamal has become our secret weapon.
00:31:25
Conor Fowler
yeah otherwise we were not doing that shit because it's like i don't know i feel like uh aristotle saying like the writing is bad writing is going to make us all really stupid but i think that video and writing while similar are very different So yeah, it doesn't feel good.
00:31:52
Eric
Yeah, there's an
00:31:52
Conor Fowler
It doesn't feel good to be bombarded with that kind of stuff.
00:31:57
Eric
Yeah, there's something obtrusive about about video because you have to move at the pace of the video.
00:32:01
Conor Fowler
Yes, exactly.
00:32:03
Eric
That like when when it's telling you something, you have to just sort of follow along and you're like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. When you're reading something, you can sort of circle back. You can be like, okay, what was they what were they saying about that?
00:32:13
Eric
Why did they say that? And I think that maybe people are recognizing that again, that there there is something um valuable in being able to approach something at your own pace.
00:32:28
Conor Fowler
Well, it's so much like, um
00:32:33
Conor Fowler
so it's complicated right? money right but Google controls a lot of the way that we do things or interact with information.
00:32:48
Conor Fowler
And so that Google owns YouTube means when you're searching to find instructions, you are only finding videos on YouTube, which, you know, is just
00:33:01
Eric
huh
00:33:06
Conor Fowler
It's hard. It's hard to watch a video to do something. It's like you you need to be able to stop, I guess. And while you can stop, it's like not really designed to stop.
00:33:17
Eric
Yeah. Yeah, you don't have the sort of step-by-step function of of written instructions, which is just like, that's just easier to, when you're trying to do something along with it,
00:33:31
matt
Right.
00:33:31
Eric
you're you're able to check yourself and to return to to what you're thinking of.
00:33:34
matt
Yeah. I'm also a big fan of closed captioning, and I literally did not realize you could turn on closed captioning on YouTube until last night.
00:33:43
Eric
Oh, man.
00:33:43
Conor Fowler
Matt. ah
00:33:45
matt
Yeah. I mean, all things considered, everyone that listens to the show or knows me knows that I'm not really a tech person.
00:33:50
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:33:51
matt
But, yeah like, I mostly watch pool videos on YouTube.
00:33:51
Conor Fowler
Right. Right.
00:33:55
matt
Like, that's a that's about it.
00:33:56
Conor Fowler
no it's No, that's wonderful, though. Because I'm sure some of those guys are fucking hard to understand.
00:33:59
matt
Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:03
Conor Fowler
Like some of the British guys, like...
00:34:05
matt
Oh, totally.
00:34:05
Eric
Thank you.
00:34:05
matt
100%. Yeah. Yeah. But like I was watching a video and it like it started pouring and just couldn't hear it. And I was like, OK, I'm going to I'm going turn on closed captioning now, I guess.
00:34:16
matt
And I tried to find the button. was like, oh, it's been there the whole fucking time.
00:34:21
Conor Fowler
Yeah, it is a CC button, I believe.
00:34:24
matt
Yes, it is. Yes, it is.
00:34:27
Conor Fowler
And that's like kind of a solution, but it's like not the solution that I want.
00:34:31
matt
Right, right. Yeah, yeah. I guess that was that was kind of the point that I forgot to make is like, you know, you can see what people are saying, but it's not like having an article in front of you or like a recipe or something where you can just like, read what needs to be done while you're, you know, while you're trying to do the thing.
00:34:43
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:34:49
Eric
Yeah, and I think there's something different about like the form of the writing too. that like when if I were writing a script for a video, like I would be approaching that differently. I would be approaching that in you know probably a more conversational or performative style, whereas with writing, and you know, I have a ah particular writing voice that and I think that that you can get get across like your how you're trying to convey yourself in these in these different ways through the voice of your writing.
00:35:07
matt
Right.
00:35:07
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:35:11
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:35:25
matt
Definitely.
00:35:29
matt
So, yeah, like like I said, you know, the... this The subject matter, not strictly being clothing, is is pretty refreshing, um you know including what you're reading at the end of the articles or or various things.
00:35:38
Eric
Mm-hmm.
00:35:42
Conor Fowler
And growing.
00:35:43
matt
like It's it's super um super cool, but has that been you know the intent the intention that you've had since the outset?
00:35:54
Eric
Yeah, I mean, i started out it was I started out with the idea of just sort of writing about clothing, because that's mainly what I was thinking about. That's been sort of my main interest, my main focus, as far as like a recreational creative pastime for a while. Yeah.
00:36:18
Eric
And like you know I think you know dressing, it it is a creative pastime. It's you know it's kind of like ah visual. It's like like photography. It's kind of sensual, like pottery. And you have materials that you're putting something together.
00:36:30
matt
Okay.
00:36:31
Eric
And it's also like a kind of from performance performance, too, because you're putting something together for on yourself that you're going to wear out in the world. um But i yeah i went into it ah intending to write primarily about clothing. I did also start out from the start with the like what I'm X section at the bottom, though. It was like, well, I want to have like some open, just something besides clothing.
00:36:59
Eric
that I can share with people. if there's you know If there's something that's on my mind at the time, I want to have that space built in where I can just be like, oh, hey, I read this really good book or I'm growing tomatoes or whatever.
00:37:10
matt
Right.
00:37:12
Eric
whatever is Whatever is on my mind and just being able to share that, it seemed like both like a nice outlet for me and also just a way of like being able to share a little bit more of myself with people.
00:37:25
Eric
And then like I've made a point of keeping myself to a strict um a strict schedule for it. i've only I've only missed one article, missed it by one day. but i was like, i part of what I want to make of this is like make it a writing exercise that I'm like keeping myself to this deadline.
00:37:50
matt
Right.
00:37:50
Eric
Because I also know that I work well with deadlines. So I figured i'll you know I will have something every other Wednesday. i will have something to put out, whatever it is.
00:38:02
Eric
And you know sometimes you don't have you don't have an idea. Sometimes inspiration doesn't strike, and you have to like go out and find something. You have to just pick a thing and say, OK, this is what I'm writing about this week. Because you you can't rely on inspiration.
00:38:20
Eric
um You have to sort of make yourself create something sometimes. um And so like sometimes, you know, I've i've had articles where i was just like, I had one where I was just melting down.
00:38:34
Eric
I was like, I don't know how this country climbs climbs down from the sort of like collapse that's going on, the cultural collapse and how we're all sort of splintering.
00:38:38
matt
Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
00:38:44
Eric
And then I had another one where i was just like, I read this cool ass comic book. Yeah.
00:38:50
matt
ah
00:38:50
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:38:50
matt
Dude, I sincerely, like, I read both of those, and I appreciated both of them immensely, because that's that's like the ah the dichotomy of being ah in the U.S.
00:38:56
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:39:02
matt
right now.
00:39:03
Conor Fowler
Yeah. For real. Because you want a distraction so badly.
00:39:05
Eric
I appreciate
00:39:08
Conor Fowler
And so reading about Truman or reading about the UDT shorts, it was like, i haven't read about this shit. So like this is a great distraction. I'm like not thinking about the world dying for five minutes.
00:39:21
matt
Right, right. And then sometimes, I don't know about you guys, but I feel bad that I want a distraction because I'm like, you know, Connor knows this about me, but you know I pride myself on staying afloat and abreast of what's happening.
00:39:34
matt
And, you know, i think that that feeds into a lot of our doom scrolling in a lot of ways.
00:39:34
Eric
hu
00:39:39
matt
Like, oh, how many how many shitty news headlines and articles can I read today? Great. Yeah. Oh, shit. Why am I sad today? But...
00:39:48
Conor Fowler
Right. Why am I sad to today indeed? Ain't nothing in the news but the blues.
00:39:51
Eric
Yeah.
00:39:54
Eric
Absolutely. Yeah, you're you're just sort of bombarded with this stuff. And like when like the Minneapolis stuff was going on this winter, I was just like, this is like all I can see and all I can think of.
00:40:06
matt
Yeah, totally.
00:40:08
Eric
But also at the same time, I was like, I don't have like something new to say about this. I don't have, I don't have like an angle on this.
00:40:15
matt
Right, right.
00:40:18
Eric
So I'm just going to say that I'm,
00:40:19
Conor Fowler
Yeah, you can only say it's wrong one Right.
00:40:23
Eric
Yeah, I don't have like anything, anything, you know, that will, you know, bring people like a new viewpoint on this. I'm just gonna say that I'm just gonna say, this is bad.
00:40:32
matt
Right.
00:40:36
Eric
And I don't have anything greater to say about it. And like, maybe that'll resonate with someone, someone else who reads this.
00:40:43
matt
And to be honest, I wish a lot of people would take that route. And like, it's ah it's kind of refreshing because like, i i mean, anyone that's followed me on Instagram knows that I love to like fucking rant a lot of times in my stories and shit. But like, that's just me trying to get the thoughts out of my head that I'm thinking at that point in time. And sometimes that's not necessary.
00:41:07
Eric
Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes, like I think I was on Twitter a lot from 2016 to something. course. twenty three or something
00:41:08
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:41:15
matt
yeah Yeah, my account just got suspended like two weeks ago for for no reason whatsoever.
00:41:16
Conor Fowler
yeah oh thank god oh thank god yeah dude it' good how could you it's like it's really gone to the dogs worse than dogs that's an insult to dogs
00:41:22
Eric
of course
00:41:22
matt
i mean, to be fair, i haven't really I haven't really used Twitter in like six months, which has been very nice.
00:41:27
Eric
Mm-hmm.
00:41:31
matt
Well, i
00:41:35
matt
yes, but I will contest that i had I had my following or my followers and the handful of people that followed me like, nailed in where I did not.
00:41:46
Conor Fowler
Well, don't they populate the feed now with shit that you're not following like threads and Facebook do also? So it's like all meaningless shit.
00:41:55
matt
I mean, possibly the for you page. Yes. But like I never once clicked on the for you page intentionally. So yeah, I'll stand on the fact that I i had my my curated follower or people I was following down to like a science.
00:42:10
Eric
Fair enough, yeah. But like one thing that weirdly I kind of learned on Twitter is that I was like, i don't have to have a take on everything.
00:42:20
matt
Right.
00:42:21
Eric
like's Something that I did learn, and that I think it's the opposite of what Twitter twitter tries to teach you, is that I learned that I could just like look at a thing and be like, huh, okay.
00:42:26
matt
Yes.
00:42:33
Eric
And then just let that go and not like jump in and like yell at somebody about it.
00:42:33
matt
Right.
00:42:39
matt
Yeah, yelling at people on the internet is is fucking pointless. Like, I don't care what context it is. And I've never, like, I was i was a message board user, but I i was not an a very argumentative person. Or I'm not a very argumentative person in general. But, like, being argumentative on the internet is just just purely absurd at this point.
00:43:01
Conor Fowler
Yeah, that's one.
00:43:02
matt
And it probably always has been, you know. i don' I know some people love to do it, but that is just not my shit.
00:43:04
Conor Fowler
No, it's never one.
00:43:08
Conor Fowler
Well, I just don't think that it's possible to change anyone's mind anymore.
00:43:13
matt
Yeah, you may you may be correct.
00:43:13
Conor Fowler
It seems like it like, it seems like the the die is cast, you know?
00:43:19
matt
Right, right.
00:43:21
Eric
It does seem that people yeah people's opinions are kind of baked in At least if they're the kind of people who are on online debating things.
00:43:26
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:43:29
Conor Fowler
Right. Well, my, my people have given me shit about this, but like my litmus test is, do you think all humans are human?
00:43:38
matt
Right. Yeah. Do you think that and
00:43:39
Conor Fowler
And if you can't say yes to that question, dude, I don't want to fuck with you at all. Well,
00:43:43
matt
Right. so Something I've said for a very long time is it's not hard to not be a dick.
00:43:44
Eric
Mm-hmm.
00:43:49
matt
And that, like, that's my philosophy in life.
00:43:49
Eric
Yeah.
00:43:52
matt
Like, it's not hard to just be a pleasant human being and to, like, treat anyone that you come into contact with with fucking respect.
00:43:57
Conor Fowler
well
00:44:01
Conor Fowler
It's hard to be pleasant. It's not that hard to respect people.
00:44:05
matt
Yeah. Yeah. But, like, you know...
00:44:08
Conor Fowler
Everything's gotta be going right.
00:44:10
matt
you You don't want to like, like, even if I'm having the worst day of my life and I go like to buy cigarettes, I'm not going to, I'm i'm going to try to treat the, you know, the person at the gas station or wherever as like a person say, Hey, how are you?
00:44:25
matt
You know, be like, yeah, right.
00:44:27
Conor Fowler
Well, that goes back to that question, right?
00:44:29
matt
Right. Like, you know, I appreciate it. Thank you. And, and walk out. Like, I'm not, you know, I'm, I don't understand how people love to yell at people.
00:44:38
Eric
yeah
00:44:40
Conor Fowler
it makes them feel good, of course. Like, punt punching down, like,
00:44:42
matt
Right, right. In some weird fucked up ass way.
00:44:45
Eric
yeah no it it it probably feels good to have like just sort of
00:44:47
matt
Yeah.
00:44:52
Eric
and you know, an adversary that that you've decided is, like, somebody that, you know, is evil, and you can just yell at them.
00:45:00
matt
Right.
00:45:01
Eric
Like, whether that's the person who, you know, brought you the wrong drink, or, you know, somebody on the internet.
00:45:01
matt
Right.
00:45:09
matt
Right.
00:45:11
Conor Fowler
um another thing the learning ah that you were talking about like learning to be less uptight with clothes um if you want to talk about that a little bit I mean I'm I know Matt and I have our own whatever about it but
00:45:19
Eric
Mm-hmm.
00:45:28
Eric
Absolutely. Yes. i like I said, I got into menswear through like period television and film, you know, like Poirot, like hats and suits and and stuff like that.
00:45:41
Eric
And, you know, that was like that was what I was so interested in. I was really interested in like the the beautiful, like golden age of tailoring, the um double-breasted suits and like gorgeous like beaver beaver fur felt hats and stuff and um so like when i started like getting into menswear like that's what i was trying to like dial in on and of course i was also like 23 and didn't have any money so i'm like you know I'm like trying to like find stuff vintage and it like, you know, this, a lot of the stuff that I can find, you know, whether it's vintage or new, it's like, it's that I can afford.
00:46:13
Conor Fowler
Mm-mm.
00:46:22
Eric
it's It's not the look that I'm, that I'm wanting to get, but I'm like trying towards this thing. And i think that we all sort of, we start out learning like the, the quote unquote rules of menswear, where we're all like, you know, this is like how things should be.
00:46:38
Eric
And like, you know, only ever wear four-in-hand knot or i mean, I do only ever wear foreign hand knot, but that's beside the point.
00:46:47
matt
As you should, as you should.
00:46:48
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:46:50
Eric
But yeah, we we have these rules and we're like, you've got to follow the rules. And, you know, a part of it's like it's like jazz that like the you you know, the rules of like the the chords and scales and stuff.
00:47:04
Eric
And then once you know that, then you can just you can break it. You can remix things and mix them up.
00:47:11
matt
That's where improv comes in.
00:47:11
Eric
And. Absolutely. You can just, you can shake things up and you can wear, you know, uh, tweed jacket with drawstring shorts and like a a bucket hat with a, a worsted suit and stuff.
00:47:25
Eric
Um, And that, yeah, my my style like has gotten more casual in the past five years. And part of that is probably probably just sort of cultural fallout from like COVID and everyone kind of like dressing down for a bit. And then also just kind of a shift into dressing a little more functionally.
00:47:49
Eric
And just being like, you know, I, I've gone from wearing a lot more like wool trousers to wearing like almost entirely cotton trousers, military fatigues, that kind of thing.
00:48:04
Eric
And also just sort of realizing that it doesn't, you know, it doesn't matter. Like, it doesn't matter what people you know, see when they look at me, I can wear camo trousers with a with a navy blazer if I think that looks cool.
00:48:21
matt
Right.
00:48:21
Eric
And like, that's just fine. That's just fine for me. you know, i kind of, um you know, I sacrificed some of the best, like creative years of my life to worrying about how other people viewed me.
00:48:32
Eric
And so I've been trying to unlearn that and like dressing and menswear has been a big part of that because it is It's something that's allowed me to the grace to like take up space in the world and just be like, yeah, you know, this is I'm wearing this outfit today and maybe this one didn't work out.
00:48:51
Eric
But, you know, so I've had outfits where I like got out of the car and saw my reflection was like, ah, this isn't the one, you know, this isn't it. But.
00:48:59
Conor Fowler
So what do you do? What do you do then?
00:49:01
Eric
ah
00:49:02
Conor Fowler
You just go to full steam ahead?
00:49:03
Eric
then
00:49:04
Conor Fowler
I mean,
00:49:04
Eric
Yeah, at that point i'm at that point, I'm at work. I'm just like, well, I'm going to gut it out for today. This is it. that this This isn't a win, but...
00:49:10
matt
Yeah.
00:49:14
matt
We all make mistakes.
00:49:14
Conor Fowler
do you record do you record them in some way? I mean, like do you have a personal, like, ah this was not a good one?
00:49:22
Eric
No, I haven't thought about that. um Because I mainly only like photograph my outfit if I'm going to post it. I don't really like document them offline.
00:49:35
Eric
So like all my the outfits that I that i post on on Instagram, those are ones that I you know i consider you know pretty good.
00:49:36
Conor Fowler
I see.
00:49:44
Eric
I consider those a win a win of some kind.
00:49:47
Eric
hadn't thought about I hadn't thought about documenting the losses. that That's like actually a great idea.
00:49:47
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:49:50
Conor Fowler
Well, there there is that, right?
00:49:51
matt
ah
00:49:52
Eric
Yeah.
00:49:53
Conor Fowler
There is the other side of it, and that's like maybe content also. I don't know. It's all so it's all like you have to fucking turn everything into content. You have to like...
00:50:04
Eric
for
00:50:05
Conor Fowler
David Price- more work than you already do at your job it's just like no I don't want to do that I don't like work at all in any form I don't like yard work I don't like ah I kind of like housework but that's the your there.
00:50:12
Eric
yeah
00:50:20
Conor Fowler
Price- it's bad he's bad.
00:50:22
Eric
Yeah, and like posting posting stuff, it's like I had some difficulty with like
00:50:32
Eric
I mean, with like taking up that space too, where I was when was, particularly when I thought about starting the Substack, I was like, I was worried that it seemed like vain or hubristic that like, to think that like anyone would be interested in like some articles that I, aint that I wrote about like, about what I was wearing, you know, that I had to sort of, yeah, ah Darren, Darren's a big, ah a big supporter.
00:50:53
Conor Fowler
Darren likes your shit, I noticed.
00:50:59
Eric
Darren's a homie. I appreciate it.
00:51:01
matt
There is a fucking homie, man.
00:51:01
Eric
I appreciate
00:51:01
Conor Fowler
Yeah, dude, Darren's the shit.
00:51:03
matt
Yeah.
00:51:03
Conor Fowler
Darren is the, yeah, ultimate.
00:51:06
Eric
Yeah, well one of my...
00:51:06
Conor Fowler
He's the super fan. i mean, yeah, exactly.
00:51:08
matt
Yeah, he's an Apocalypse Duds Unc.
00:51:08
Eric
Yeah.
00:51:10
matt
he's He's just there and like supportive. And it's fantastic. Also, has killer taste.
00:51:16
Eric
I appreciate it. Oh, absolutely. love his Love his posts. Love all his stuff.
00:51:22
matt
Yeah, say same. Same.
00:51:24
Eric
But, yeah, so I was...
00:51:24
Conor Fowler
He shouldn't be as good as it as he is.
00:51:29
Eric
So, yeah, I had to sort of get out of my own get out of my own head and get out of my own way in order to to get around to... posting that first article.
00:51:38
matt
Right.
00:51:38
Eric
And then I was like, and then then you know once you do things once, and this is something you know something that I've but tried to train myself to, is like you do you do a thing once, and then it's not so scary.
00:51:49
Eric
You've done it.
00:51:50
matt
Totally.
00:51:50
Eric
You know how to do it. And like that that was it. And then I was like, OK, I can do this every other week for however long.
00:51:58
matt
Yeah. Yeah. and Until you don't want to do it anymore. and And if that happens, it's okay.
00:52:01
Eric
Yeah.
00:52:04
matt
If it doesn't happen, it's okay.
00:52:10
Conor Fowler
Well, we missed this question up here. Maybe we skipped it for some reason. I don't know. I think this is a Matt question. But do you have any insight on the trad elements of North Carolina as compared to the Northeast, where you live now, where you were living, and now where you live now?
00:52:30
Eric
Yeah. um There is, I mean, there's definitely like sort of a trad Southern thing.
00:52:38
matt
Yes.
00:52:38
Conor Fowler
Sure.
00:52:39
Eric
um But, you know, there's also like, there's the South and then there's like the South. There's like, I didn't grow up in like the Tennessee Williams type south so much you know i i grew up in in uh appalachia so well well you know asheville's not not a poor town um there wasn't so much of the like baked in like southern trad kind of thing the like seersucker under the palmettos kind of guys
00:52:54
matt
Right, yeah.
00:52:55
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:53:06
matt
Right, right, yeah.
00:53:07
Conor Fowler
Old money type shit.
00:53:09
matt
that that
00:53:12
matt
Yeah, that that to me, like as someone that also grew up in like Lower Appalachia, and um you know I saw people wearing suits and things going to church as a kid, but you know we it it's more in like
00:53:12
Conor Fowler
Right, right, right.
00:53:22
Eric
ever
00:53:26
matt
like Charlottesville or Charleston, you know, Ben Silver is in Charleston has been since the dawn of time, you know, like that's definitely the more stereotypical, like Southern quote, and take on quote unquote Ivy, I guess for lack of a better word.
00:53:29
Conor Fowler
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:53:30
Eric
Right. Absolutely, yeah.
00:53:42
Eric
Definitely.
00:53:42
matt
But, but yeah, like smaller cities and and suburbs, you know, in Atlanta and things like that. Like it's not as, as bare.
00:53:52
Eric
Yeah, I think so too. And then like coming up here, um i mean, I went to college in DC. So there's sort of, there's sort of the DC mid-Atlantic trad that like, I'm sure Connor, you're, you're familiar with.
00:54:05
Eric
um But like also a lot of what I was exposed to was just sort of like the, ah the, the like, the,
00:54:05
Conor Fowler
Of course.
00:54:18
Eric
congressional intern kind of menswear where it's just the the same blue and white check shirt that everybody has um but then coming up here
00:54:25
Conor Fowler
Oh yeah.
00:54:27
matt
Yeah, yeah. Also, sneak sneaker dress shoes, I'm assuming.
00:54:32
Eric
Oh, yeah, I think those were like just coming in like while I was in college.
00:54:36
matt
ah Okay, yeah, yeah.
00:54:37
Eric
And like the worst, the worst thing. i For my my last article on seersucker suiting, I pulled up a picture of one of the recent seersucker days in Congress.
00:54:49
Eric
And there were like, you know, six congressional representatives. And like one of them was wearing the the sneaker dress shoes. I'm just like, man, come on.
00:54:57
matt
I know, i know. you You motherfuckers can afford solid shit. Like, stop.
00:55:03
Eric
Yeah, no.
00:55:03
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:55:05
Eric
But then coming up here and particularly working at the Andover shop, um there was there's such a there is like the lineage of like guys who like went to Phillips Andover and like bought their first blazer at the Andover shop. And like they've been getting stuff there forever.
00:55:23
Eric
And like that particular buy-in to a lineage of trad culture, that that was that was kind of new to me.
00:55:23
matt
Right.
00:55:36
Conor Fowler
That makes sense, I think.
00:55:39
matt
It's cool to know that it's still happening, too.
00:55:40
Conor Fowler
Because I... Right.
00:55:43
matt
Like, because because that, way you know, all things considered, that wasn't that long ago.
00:55:43
Eric
Yeah, and we would have like people and
00:55:49
Eric
definitely, and we will have people we would have people bringing in like their they're kids. They're like, he's he's going into high school, he needs a blazer now.
00:55:56
matt
Right.
00:55:57
Eric
endless And like students from from Harvard and from from ah Phillips Andover would come into the two shops and like get ties and stuff when they needed them.
00:56:09
Eric
So like there is still like particularly the proximity to those schools, I think helps the Andover shop in particular maintain like it's not as strong absolutely as it was, you know, 40 or 70 years ago.
00:56:25
matt
rightot Right, right.
00:56:26
Eric
But it's still it is still there. There is that it's still a bit of a pipeline to to get guys into that.
00:56:31
matt
Yeah.
00:56:33
matt
and And I think part of the reason, from speaking from experience, that um why a lot of these like kind of classic shops don't adapt so well to modern times is because they're still living in the eighty s and and the you know in the seventy s like just bonkers days where they were selling, you know, suits hand over fist and, you know, ah every, every guy would come in and buy three suits and six ties.
00:56:56
Eric
and
00:57:00
matt
And you're just like, okay, yeah, that, that was 40 fucking years ago. We have to adapt to modern times.
00:57:07
Eric
Yeah. And I saw the pivot towards, you know, stocking less on the rack, stocking a lot more sweaters, a lot more, you button down sport shirts.
00:57:12
matt
Right.
00:57:17
matt
Yeah.
00:57:17
Eric
um And
00:57:18
matt
Kind of the grab and go stuff.
00:57:20
Eric
Yeah, the grab-and-go stuff, and then at the same time, it seemed like more focus on made-to-measure, that like that was still the moneymaker.
00:57:31
Eric
um That was kind of the the keystone for the business, as far as I could tell.
00:57:36
matt
Yeah, it makes sense.
00:57:37
Eric
um Yeah, you have those those two things. You have your sort of daily drip of like small things, and then you have the big purchases.
00:57:45
matt
Right, right.
00:57:48
matt
ah Yeah, so I guess the the last thing we wanted to ask about ah your sub stack and writing is, ah the New Year's resolution post, and the you know which i which i think I think also included the um the buying in person versus online portion that you wrote about.
00:58:00
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:58:01
Eric
Mm-hmm.
00:58:09
matt
So how's it going? And how how are you feeling? I guess six months now, end of the year.
00:58:15
Eric
It's going okay. I mean, i I do say in the article, I'm like, it's not a hard and fast rule. I can't i can't guarantee that i can that I will only be able to buy in person.
00:58:21
matt
Right, right, of course, of course.
00:58:26
Eric
But um I was thinking about it recently, and I was talking to someone, and I was saying that, like, I do think that it has having that idea of like it's, you know, buying in person, wanting wanting to make that a focus of my my buying has kind of shifted how I think about shopping, that I'm much less likely to like be window shopping online and to be like going on Poshmark and just because I'm bored and like seeing what seeing what's there.
00:58:57
matt
Right.
00:58:58
Eric
That i think I do think it has had an effect.
00:59:02
matt
It's almost synonymous with the the deadline thing that you've said throughout the interview. like It's almost like ah It's not necessarily a hard and fast rule, but it does kind of rewire your brain to to see it as like as almost a deadline of sorts.
00:59:19
matt
Like, oh, I can't do this because i have i yeah I've tried to commit to doing this.
00:59:19
Eric
Mm-hmm.
00:59:26
Eric
yeah yeah i think so i think you sort of you you manage to set an idea in your head um when if if i'm having like trouble i don' need to like go out and go out and do something i'm having trouble sort of getting up off the couch i like put my shoes on because that tells my body that tells my brain through my body that like oh it's time to like go and do a thing and i think it's it's
00:59:26
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:59:32
matt
Yes.
00:59:42
matt
Right.
00:59:50
Conor Fowler
We got to get my brother, my brother Ian, my youngest brother, who is very wise, always says action precedes motivation.
01:00:00
Eric
okay
01:00:02
Conor Fowler
Which is like sad but true.
01:00:05
Eric
Absolutely.
01:00:09
matt
Well, um one last question and then we'll we'll wrap up. But ah Eric, what are you wearing in the apocalypse?
01:00:18
Conor Fowler
dun. and
01:00:21
Eric
Oh, i mean, I have, I have thought about like, what is the like, what is the garment that will sort of last outlast our culture outlast our society.
01:00:33
Eric
And I think that like, I think that like an MA one, like nylon bomber jacket, like a real heavy duty one of those that is like,
01:00:34
Conor Fowler
A plastic bag.
01:00:43
Conor Fowler
Like the Nomex.
01:00:46
Eric
Like the collarless Nomex flight jackets. yeah um those are that's just like Those have been around since like the late 40s.
01:00:58
Eric
They're not going anywhere. they' the The good ones are like made forever, made made to last forever.
01:01:05
matt
Right.
01:01:05
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
01:01:05
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
01:01:06
Eric
And that's I think that's just a style that's also never quite going to be out of fashion ever.
01:01:12
matt
Totally.
01:01:13
Eric
That just seems like that seems like the garment that is going to be with us you know in in the stars when so when we're like you know light years from here and in a totally different culture. like that is That is still something that people are wearing.
01:01:29
matt
Yeah, yeah. And hopefully there are still some traditional skinheads out there, you know, never hanging up their boots along with the MA1 jacket.
01:01:38
Eric
Absolutely. I think i think Doc Martens are also going to be out there in the stars.
01:01:42
matt
Yeah. Yeah. Great.
01:01:45
matt
aunt Great answer. And yeah, that is the MA1 has not come up yet. So that's a first.
01:01:45
Conor Fowler
Black Moments in the Stars.
01:01:53
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
01:01:54
Eric
No kidding. Awesome.
01:01:56
matt
No. Yeah.
01:01:57
Conor Fowler
No, because I have one that I used to wear all the time.
01:01:58
matt
M.
01:02:01
Conor Fowler
um i like, i would I would wear an upside down American flag patch on it on the chest.
01:02:09
matt
Yeah, I have a Vietnam L2B because it's more suitable for the southern climate that I wear constantly in the fall and winter.
01:02:10
Eric
Mm-hmm.
01:02:15
Eric
Oh, yeah.
01:02:18
matt
Throw a hoodie under it. I'm pretty much as warm as I need to be most days.
01:02:22
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
01:02:22
Eric
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I have an L2. I mainly i wear it to concerts. I wore it like I had a trip to Hawaii this this winter. And so I like had to get to New York ah on the train. So I was just like, I don't want to have a big coat with me in Hawaii. So like hooded sweatshirt, L2 over that that. That got me that got me there.
01:02:46
matt
Hell yeah. yeah they're They're fantastic. And also pen pockets. and lots of You can fit so much in the chest pockets too.
01:02:52
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
01:02:54
matt
or Sorry. the The lower pockets.
01:02:55
Eric
Oh, absolutely.
01:02:57
matt
Hamworm pockets. Well, fuck yeah, Eric. Thank you for coming on, dude. This has been super fun. and think ah I think a great conversation. um so Tell everyone where they can find your writing and elsewhere on the internet.
01:03:15
Eric
Yeah, this has been a great experience. I appreciate you guys having me on. um I can be found on Instagram at thread underscore harvest. I can be found on sub stack at thread harvest because thread underscore harvest was taken.
01:03:30
Eric
um
01:03:30
matt
ah
01:03:31
Conor Fowler
Yeah,
01:03:32
Eric
i tried to keep them the same and like one was taken on one, one was taken on the other.
01:03:36
matt
Yeah, yeah.
01:03:37
Conor Fowler
that's how it is.
01:03:37
Eric
it's,
01:03:38
matt
I know that struggle entirely.
01:03:38
Eric
but it Yeah, but they link to each other. So you can find me find find me through one one or the other. um I post on ah Substack every other Wednesday.
01:03:52
Eric
I post on Instagram whenever approximately whenever I feel like it, which is usually a couple times a week.
01:03:59
matt
Okay. Yeah. As it should be. And yeah, everyone check out the Substack. It's ah it's not um you know it's not a hard read. and I don't mean that disparagingly, but like it's a very enjoyable read.
01:04:13
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
01:04:15
Eric
That's so good to hear.
01:04:15
matt
You know.
01:04:15
Eric
You know, like I said, I was.
01:04:16
matt
Yeah, so sometimes you sometimes you read things.
01:04:16
Conor Fowler
Yeah, dude, it wasn't.
01:04:18
matt
like I'll read an article that's about like you know some special interest that I have, and it it's it's like yeah it's like ah you know pushing a fucking boulder up a hill to get through some of them. Yeah.
01:04:31
matt
I'm glad that, yeah, I'm always happy to find someone that ah that writes, you know, kind of kind of actually talking to the audience.
01:04:31
Eric
Mm hmm.
01:04:32
Conor Fowler
For real.
01:04:39
matt
so
01:04:41
Eric
Yeah, I was aiming for sort of a breezy feel and I'm glad to hear that I kind of accomplished that.
01:04:46
matt
Yeah, great great time great content and easy to read.
01:04:51
Eric
Fantastic.
01:04:51
matt
But, yeah, um everyone, everyone, thank you for listening.
01:04:53
Conor Fowler
Dan Burke- subscribe.
01:04:56
Eric
Please do.
01:04:57
matt
Yeah, subscribe. Subscribe, definitely. um Yeah, another another episode down. You can find us at Apocalypse Studs on Instagram.
01:05:05
Conor Fowler
Burke-
01:05:09
matt
ApocalypseDuds at gmail.com. um I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
01:05:16
Conor Fowler
And I am Connor Fowler at Connor flower.
01:05:20
matt
And we will see you next week.
01:05:23
Conor Fowler
Ta ta.
01:05:24
Eric
Thank you.