Transcript
Conor Fowler: Guys, this is gonna be such a crazy show today. We finally have in the studio the infamous Rick James.
nick: Bitch, that's me.
Conor Fowler: I'm Rick James Nick.
nick: ah I'm Rick James Bitch. Yeah, it's actually...
Conor Fowler: this is the This is the uncle or the cousin or something of Rick James Ghost and he, Nick James is here in the studio.
nick: Yes.
Conor Fowler: ah that intro doesn't really It seemed to fit, I don't think, because this is an accomplished person here. This is a scientist, like a working scientist, which is like crazy.
nick: Oh.
Conor Fowler: ah
nick: I do work.
Conor Fowler: But yeah, look at that. He works. He came from work to this interview, unlike me and Matt, who are always rolling out of bed or out of the gutter onto the laptop screen to to join our to join our valued guest.
Conor Fowler: so
nick: yeah.
Conor Fowler: Welcome. This is Apocalypse Duds. Connor Fowler. Yeah.
matt: And I'm Matt Smith and yeah, Nick James.
nick: And I'm Nick James.
Conor Fowler: yeah.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: oh yeah
nick: Bitch.
matt: Nick, how's it? How's everything going today?
nick: Things are good. It's warm, and that means New York City is very stinky. But otherwise, things are good.
matt: Oh yeah. Yeah.
nick: I'm good.
matt: Nice.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, dude, my shit, my, my, my house is smelling bad because my ceiling collapsed and it is smelling like mildew.
nick: Happy to be here.
Conor Fowler: And that's very nice thing.
nick: Oh, no.
Conor Fowler: Yes. Oh, good. There are a lot of fans going.
nick: Oh, it looks like it's intact above your head, so that's good.
Conor Fowler: Well, that was in the, it's in the bedroom. This is my office.
nick: Uh...
Conor Fowler: So it's like, ah sleeping on the floor, but I just wanted to, I wanted to commiserate with the smell.
nick: Gross, but I'm sorry. Hopefully. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: um
nick: New York doesn't smell like mildew.
matt: Yeah.
nick: Actually, probably mildew probably smells better than the city.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Well, it's the, it's the open sewage smell.
matt: What, uh,
nick: Yeah.
matt: what, what neighborhood do you live in?
nick: Amongst other.
nick: I live in Bushwick.
matt: Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah.
nick: Yeah.
matt: I've adopted the, ah the Jefferson L stop for a few years.
nick: Cool, cool.
matt: Uh, and,
nick: I'm a little bit further in, but if you've lived in Bushwick, you know that not only do we have the raw sewage smell in the subway, but we also have a significant population of residents who like disavow deodorant use for some reason.
matt: Right, right.
nick: And so riding the L train in the evening or in the afternoon on a very hot day means you get to get you have a very pleasant smell of ah New York City transplant, so you don't wear deodorant, which is something I feel.
matt: Yeah. Yeah. And then if you're walk, if you're walking certain areas of Bushwick, you get like, like weird, uh, uh, what's the, what's the word I'm looking for?
Conor Fowler: a nice
matt: Like water, you know, water plants that are waste treatment facilities and things like that.
nick: treatment facilities yeah mysterious yeah it's ah it's ah it's the strange confluence that has become bushwick but i love it it's cool
matt: Yeah. It's a, it's real fun when all of that comes together.
Conor Fowler: There's worse places to live, surely.
matt: Oh yeah. Yeah. So, so you're, you're in New York, uh, or in Brooklyn. Um, where did you grow up?
nick: yeah so we kind of alluded to that um in the intro but i'm originally from buffalo and so is kind of rick james um
matt: Okay.
Conor Fowler: right
matt: Oh, right. Yeah. I didn't even, ah didn't even put that together.
nick: Yeah, yeah. he's ah He's definitely one of my idols. I wouldn't say an idol for some of the things that he did, but for a lot of the other things, especially when it comes to fashion, and i I draw a lot of inspiration from him.
Conor Fowler: yeah yeah
nick: But yeah, i'm I'm originally from Buffalo.
matt: Oh, hello.
nick: If there's people watching that are from Buffalo, I'm...
Conor Fowler: west side gun is always watching this show so shout out west side gun hello he hasn't blocked me on instagram he actually reposted a picture of a child that i posted so good for him and he well he said griselda is for the children
nick: Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Shout out West Side Gun. So...
nick: Okay. Awesome.
nick: Okay.
Conor Fowler: Because one of my kids was Googling various wrestlers.
nick: Gotcha.
Conor Fowler: And so i was like at West Side Gun, like here, a child looking at wrestlers in my classroom right now. And he was like, Griselda's for the children. Griselda from Buffalo, New York.
nick: Hell yeah.
Conor Fowler: So this is topical.
nick: Hell yeah, hell yeah. it It was off to a rocky start when you were like, West Saigon reposted a picture of one of my children. And I was like, what?
matt: yeah
nick: Um, but yeah, shout out Buffalo. i grew up outside of Buffalo. So it's kind of like, um, I, I, I described Buffalo like Jacksonville. It's one of those really wide, almost mostly suburban cities where we have a city center we have a downtown, but like the heart and the soul of the city is all of the the little satellite towns around it.
nick: Um, so I, I grew up outside of the city, but eventually later in life, I moved to the city.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: interesting
nick: and that's kind of where I got my beginning as an adult.
matt: Nice. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: that's interesting wide city i had not heard before but that is an interesting and i feel like that's like uh baltimore is that way to an extent like
matt: good
nick: Yeah.
matt: Yeah.
matt: I think, I think Jacksonville was like Jacksonville at one point, or maybe it still is, was like the biggest, uh, by mileage city in the country.
nick: Yeah, I think it's the widest like area code or something like that.
matt: Yeah.
nick: But so the way I like to think about it is, I don't know, it's like a Rust Belt city thing where the city center used to be the hub of commerce or whatever.
matt: Yeah. It's fucking it's massive.
nick: And then as the years went by, people have moved to the suburbs to pursue the American dream, whatever that is.
matt: Right.
nick: um
matt: Right.
nick: And so I grew up in the suburbs of Buffalo and later in life, i ended up moving in. So if you're people who are from Buffalo are kind of salty sometimes, they're like, you're not from Buffalo. What street did you go up on?
nick: um And I have to describe them, like, even if I grew up in Buffalo as a kid, like the experience is not too much different.
matt: Right, right, yeah.
Conor Fowler: oh Yeah.
nick: But
Conor Fowler: Yeah. i'm looking at i'm looking at the Wikipedia now.
nick: ah it's a cool city. I mean, I don't. I don't think I'll ever live there again. i think I'll just visit home, but I'm a...
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It seems like basically as a place's sports team... Whatever if their die hardness increases like the city's goodness is decreasing also because like more people are like holy shit I only have the NFL in my life.
nick: Yeah.
nick: Yeah.
nick: That's the one thing that I tell people when they, when I, you know, now and that in I'm in the city, people go, oh where are you from? And I say New York, but I don't say the city. I say the state. And they go, oh, we're in New York. I tell them upstate and they go, okay, like, what does that mean? And I'm like, well, as far upstate as you can go, basically.
nick: And then I say Buffalo. And they're like, oh you guys get lots of snow, right? i'm like, yeah, that's pretty much all we have. Snow and the Buffalo Bills, which are two awesome things.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: And Westside Gun.
nick: And Westside Guns.
Conor Fowler: Westside Gun. Westside Gun Day, ah August 14th.
nick: But
nick: Why is that a day that you know and I don't?
Conor Fowler: the The mayor declared it Westside Gun Day. I know this because it's a sample on one of his songs that I have heard many times.
nick: Oh, wait. I don't know if we celebrate it.
Conor Fowler: I don't know. They were talking about it on the news.
nick: i believe it.
Conor Fowler: maybe it is Maybe it is a fake sample.
nick: i i don't know.
Conor Fowler: I don't know. But I thought August 14th, Westside Gun Day, that's fascinating.
nick: August 14th is not a day that sticks out of my head, but if it's Westside Gun Day, then I'll celebrate.
matt: Yeah, yeah. You guys also have the Sabres in the 90s, which are pretty sick, you know.
nick: We had the Sabres this playoff run, and they they just got knocked out, what, two weeks ago now, a week ago?
matt: Oh, damn. Yeah, yeah. they've They've always been a solid team.
nick: They were on a they're on a deep run. It's been a rough last, like, decade.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Is that like the Baltimore Bullets?
nick: The last time the Sabres, say it again, Baltimore bur Bullets?
Conor Fowler: Is that like the Baltimore Bullets, like a team that once was that no longer is?
nick: I think, I don't know. Buffalo's got a tragic history of sports success and sports failures. And it seems like we have like a sine wave of goodness versus badness. So um
Conor Fowler: sine wave of goodness.
nick: yeah, quote me for that. um Bill's.
Conor Fowler: I'm putting it down. I'm putting it down in the document.
nick: Hell yeah. The Bills are like on the the the crest. I would say I hope they're not on the back end of that crest right now. um
matt: Right.
nick: I'm a diehard Bills fan, so I'll say we're on the front side of it. We can only get better. But Josh Allen did just have a kid, so there's that. And then the Sabres, they're definitely on the front side of that crest. they're This is the first season where we expected them to be good, but we didn't expect them to make such a deep playoff run.
nick: And unfortunately, they got knocked out in, what is it, game one of the last games of the series. And I think it was an OT by a score. So it was a, it was a, it was yeah, it was a nail biter, which is no, nothing that I'm a stranger to in Buffalo.
matt: ah
matt: Right, right.
nick: But yeah, it was sports teams or sports teams a Buffalo.
matt: oh So, yeah, that's what that's what you got.
nick: That's what we got.
matt: So we know that you have, as you said, a chaotic CV. um Could you just give us a ah rundown, and you know maybe like a one-minute CV rundown of the...
Conor Fowler: We're not going to time you, just so you know.
nick: Okay.
matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: We're not timing you.
nick: Alright.
Conor Fowler: There's no stopwatch.
nick: I'm pressing...
matt: we just talked about We just talked about Buffalo for six minutes, so I think we're good.
nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: You have about 30 seconds.
matt: yeah
nick: All right, 30 seconds, I'm on clock. So, um yeah yeah, my CV is kind of chaotic.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
matt: that it
Conor Fowler: but
nick: I think like most teenage boys, I didn't really know what I wanted to do when I grew up. And pressure of like knowing ah like in senior year of high school was too much for me. And so i kind of just like clung on to the first thing that ah came after me.
nick: Some of my close family members were in the military and they had always said like, you know, if you're not really sure what you want to do and you don't want to waste the money, Like, why don't you consider joining up? And, um, I took that pretty seriously, especially junior year. And, and you know, in confluence with recruiters being in our cafeterias and like flyers being like auto mailed to my home and then a bunch of emails coming in like, you do you not know what you want to do after high school? Join the military now.
nick: um And then an awesome, super awesome $20,000 sign on bonus. I ended up joining the military right out of high school. So I enlisted probably like January of senior year. And while everybody else was committing to their colleges, I was like, yeah, I'm going to go be in the Air Force, fly planes and stuff.
nick: um And then pretty much right after we walked our stage, I got my orders to head out to boot camp. and So I joined the military. I signed up to be a one whiskey, which is a meteorologist, aviation meteorologist.
nick: spent two and a half years training for that. down in Texas for a while and then I moved over to Gulf Coast Mississippi for a bit and then I ended my training in I mentioned Jacksonville earlier I ended i ended my training in like Central Florida um so I was intimately familiar with Jax and Gainesville um go ahead
matt: Ah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: what's a question that people don't ask the meteorologists because i feel like the obvious ones everyone knows what the questions are right like
nick: you can say you can say over you are you on TV um i hear that one all the time
Conor Fowler: Well, no, not like are you on TV, like are you ever right? No, but like ah as a meteorologist, you have kind of a different sort of insight into the outfit planning process.
Conor Fowler: Is that right?
nick: Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, i think like, ah so completely different tangential jump here. I enjoy birding. It's like one of my side hobbies. And ah I heard a term that someone used recently and they called it bird blindness.
matt: Nice.
Conor Fowler: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
nick: And it's basically like when a non-person who's into birding like just goes outside and they hear tweets and they hear songs and they see like birds flying and they don't like a birder knows exactly what that is and is like interested in it. But a non birder or somebody has bird blindness just like lets that bird fly and doesn't even think about it.
nick: A lot of people have weather blindness.
Conor Fowler: Jesus Christ.
nick: And so like they walk outside and they see clouds and they just go, oh, it's just clouds or oh, it's just, you know, a sky.
Conor Fowler: Right.
nick: um i think learning to become a meteorologist kind of took those blinders off for me and now like i'll walk outside and i'll see um like a level a deck of seerous clouds and i'm like oh yeah i'm like three three days from now there's gonna be ah you know ah a cold front or an occluded front that's gonna make its way up north and i'm gonna have to wear a coat in a few days and so it like it plays a little bit of a sound in the back of my head where i'm like
Conor Fowler: You're like rain, you're like rain man. Yeah. Oh yeah.
nick: you know, I look outside and I know for the next few days it's going to be nice or for the next few days it's going be cold. um And so it does have a little bit of an effect on what I wear when I wear it. But I'll be honest with you, like once I got done with that career field, I kind of just like stopped being a weather nerd.
nick: um Like now I look at it just for fun every once in a while, but
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I might be alone in this, but I don't think that I am.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: So like the worst thing is not getting caught in the rain or the snow or whatever. The worst thing is wearing too much clothing when the temperature is too high.
Conor Fowler: That is like the worst possible thing.
nick: Absolutely.
Conor Fowler: You're sweaty. You look disgusting. No one takes you seriously, whatever. what the It's a bad look at least.
nick: For sure.
Conor Fowler: um I feel like i
nick: At least like you get sympathy if you look like a drowned rat because you you missed the the forecast rain or something like that.
Conor Fowler: Right. Exactly. But the other way, it's like you miscalculated this, you fucking buffoon.
nick: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: And yeah, and you're disgusting and perhaps you smell bad.
nick: And you look gross.
Conor Fowler: So I guess what I'm saying is, as I have gotten older, like, I think that's definitely happened to me less.
nick: You're more in tune.
Conor Fowler: But yeah, I guess you kind of get
nick: Also, i I don't like to play on stereotypes, but like middle-aged dudes, older dudes, like it tends to become a thing that we all start to gravitate towards in our age is like, though the weather's cool, man.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: Can confirm. Can confirm.
nick: Like, i don't know why.
Conor Fowler: We have opened with the weather almost every episode, and that is Matt, but it's like it's become me too.
matt: confirm.
Conor Fowler: like I'm a little bit younger than Matt, but now I'm the same age as Matt when the show started.
nick: Sure.
Conor Fowler: so it's like...
nick: as As a biologist, it's something it's something genetic.
matt: Yeah.
nick: like as
Conor Fowler: I agree.
nick: As we age, we all like seriously have the, what's the weather like conversation every morning over coffee or at work? like It's a joke, but it's a joke for a reason.
matt: Yeah, yeah. I've been telling people that I am paying attention to the forecast years old now.
Conor Fowler: Right.
nick: Hell yeah.
matt: And and like like, I sell vintage clothing and do pop-up markets. So like I think it stems from that. But it's like, you know,
nick: Sure.
Conor Fowler: Well, it does. i mean, you're outside. like
matt: Yeah, yeah. And I spend a lot of time outside in general, so like I just, I kind of want to know, like, oh, you know, if it's, like, Atlanta, in the past for the past, like, almost two weeks has had, like, a a significant chance of rain every single day.
nick: Yeah.
matt: And I'm just like, motherfucker, can we, like, I just want to know when it's going happen and when it's going pass. And, yeah, that's...
nick: Yeah. it's It's like, it's a, you know, in order to connect to other humans, we find something simple to relate to. And like opening the conversation with like, oh, this weather, isn't it great?
matt: Right.
nick: Like, it's such a cliche, but it's like the best way to do it
Conor Fowler: It works great. Well, it's the universal, right?
nick: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's a universal. Even billionaires are affected by the weather.
nick: Yeah. Well, i don't know.
matt: That's true.
nick: Some of them might not be, but...
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: I guess it depends to what extent.
nick: Yeah.
matt: Yeah.
nick: Which plebeian do they pay to hold an umbrella over their head?
matt: If they, if they are, if they're a, man if they're a wizard person or not, that also plays into it, you know?
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: Yeah. Yeah.
matt: All right. So aviation meteorology and, uh,
nick: Yep. So the next...
Conor Fowler: Oh, wait, which by the way, you are not the first Air Force meteorologist that we have had on the show.
matt: right. That's true.
nick: Whoa, it's a small career field.
matt: Yeah. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: It's a really small career field. I think there's less than, I think there's less than 7,000 of us or seven.
Conor Fowler: Do you know Vernon Valentine?
nick: The name sounds.
Conor Fowler: He's like a menswear dude. He was just on Silent Directions, like the front of Silent Directions last month post. He's like a cowboy.
nick: Oh, hell yeah.
Conor Fowler: He's black. So it's like unusual.
nick: Oh yeah. I think I, okay. I don't know Vernon personally, but I think we're mutuals on IG.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. But yeah, you know, you exactly.
nick: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: So this guy was on the show a long time ago.
nick: yeah i'mnna I'm going to reach out literally after this and be like, one whiskey?
Conor Fowler: Yeah, dude.
nick: Question mark, question mark.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, dude, you should. It's funny as shit because he actually like has a master's in education and JD. So like he is extremely accomplished as well.
nick: Oh, hell yeah. I don't have that.
Conor Fowler: Well, not yet.
nick: Not yet. Sure.
Conor Fowler: He's older than you significantly.
nick: Sure.
Conor Fowler: like He's older than me, I think. So...
nick: That's super awesome. yeah It's a small career field. And like, not only is it super tiny, but there's also the Air Force kind of contracts out their meteorology or their forecasting to the Army because the Army has aircraft as well.
Conor Fowler: That sounds like a horrible idea.
nick: ah Well, how do I say like the Army just doesn't have enough aircraft to have an entire career field to cover it.
Conor Fowler: Well, that's what I mean, right? Like, aren't the air force the air people?
nick: Yeah, I mean, they have helicopters. I think that's really what it is.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
nick: um And the Air Force has helicopters, but like not in the same way. and so So basically, the big Air Force and the DOD, they're like, all right, Air Force people who are know how to forecast weather, some of you are going forecast for the Army.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
nick: And so it's even smaller population in total um if there were to be like two branches that do that thing.
Conor Fowler: Oh, I see.
nick: And so it's just cool that you guys have had two. That's kind of rare. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's funny. I mean, when he told us that, it was like how like, how could we have done this in the first place? But it's like, now we've done it again. So it's really bizarre.
nick: Hell yeah.
Conor Fowler: But I do think that there is like... I don't know, there just is like a through line that runs through every person that is in this scene, like that is not clothing and is not like an identifiable thing, but it's like some sub structure.
nick: Yeah.
nick: A small world-ness.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: Absolutely.
Conor Fowler: um
nick: I usually call that, like, neurodivergence or something. im trying to be i was trying I'm trying to tame my language, but, yeah, um I call that neurodivergence, or at least in the academic world.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Conor Fowler: Right.
nick: Everybody's got something that connects them, and it's usually that. yeah
Conor Fowler: Well, speaking of neurodivergence, Zach Smith, zeometer, zeometer, potentially, because I think that's the way that he pronounced it, zeometer, which is for phosphorus.
nick: Hell yeah. Love Zach. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: ah Anyway, asks,
nick: Oh, there's questions? There's a Q&A moment? What?
Conor Fowler: well, so we know that you are a brilliant scientist. Is there anything you won't wear in the lab?
nick: Oh, ah closed or open-toed shoes and short pants. um That's legally, I'm required to tell you that. ah The Environmental Health and Safety Corps at my university would probably, like, assassinate me through the window if I told you I wore sandals to to work the other day.
Conor Fowler: Right.
nick: um So, no, like, realistically, no.
Conor Fowler: Yikes.
nick: I've actually been pushing that question a little bit recently where I'm trying to, like, Uh, like recently I went out to the field and I was like, I want to be the only guy in the field that's wearing a tie. And so I made sure I was wearing like a button down shirt and a tie.
nick: And I got a really, a lot of really strange looks. People like going to out in the field and that. And I was like, this is what they did back in the day. Like, surely it works.
Conor Fowler: Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that for sure.
nick: a
Conor Fowler: Because that I have been so guilty of many times. Like, why are you wearing a fucking suit, you idiot?
nick: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Why did you do it? Why do you want to wear the tie?
nick: What?
Conor Fowler: I mean you want to wear the tie because it's tradition? Like, it's like...
nick: Honestly, like it was kind of a what-if type question. um I credited it in one of my descriptions or something like that. I credited it to an old, I think it was an Orvis fishing catalog.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
nick: I get a lot of my inspiration from some you know vintage catalogs, and I saw an Orvis like fly fishing catalog, and there was a guy who was in the water with his you know as his waist waders, and he was wearing like a tweed overcoat and you know, ah a button down collar and a tie and a golf cap.
nick: And I'm like, that is the most impractical outfit to wear when you're a hip deep in a running stream. Like you're going to get one drop of water on you and it's going be on you for the rest of the day.
Conor Fowler: right
nick: And you're going be like a little bit soggy and annoyed. And so I was like, why why don't I just try It looks fun.
Conor Fowler: yeah well because i was looking at your stuff and like you're a good writer also um well it's just true i mean there's a lot of people who are bad writers and and and some of them by coincidence are science people uh but
nick: Oh, thanks.
nick: we We do tend to write technical.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. So I don't know. I mean, and I think like your long hair pictures, cause I have a question here about like, uh, there's a dichotomy between the long hairs and the short hairs and menswear you are firmly in the long hair camp.
nick: Go
Conor Fowler: And as a former long hair, I know that there are certain connotations to long hair and I'm wondering how the hair affects you.
nick: ahead.
Conor Fowler: For example, hats, right? You have to wear a hat kind of often to cover up your hair if it's fucked up.
nick: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Right. Um,
nick: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for making that point. Like that is like that. That's the epitome of my life. People are like, why are you always wearing hats? One, I think it's a great accessory. But two, if i I have curly hair and it's it's up right now.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
nick: But if I take off my hat, it's going to look like I've been wearing a hat all day.
matt: Oh, dude. Yeah.
nick: And if I don't wear a hat, I'm going to have to not ever wear a hat that day. Like there's no in between.
Conor Fowler: Right, exactly.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: You can't put it on or take it off. You can't like, um people just don't get it. And like, I have curly hair too. And I used to have long hair. And like, even in my recent life, I had longer hair.
Conor Fowler: But it's like, you got to put on the baseball hat kind of it's like at least half of the time
nick: it's It's a taming thing. It depends how much work do I want to do in the morning. And if it's going to be a hot day, do I want my head to feel sweaty?
Conor Fowler: yeah right right and it's a lot of because like this picture uh which i think you probably will be able to identify my my description there's a picture of you with long hair and like a cream
nick: Like, it's a whole...
Conor Fowler: polo and cream pants and socks, brown loafers.
nick: Oh, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that's like a sex symbol picture. That's like Rick James' sexy brother or something.
nick: I appreciate it.
Conor Fowler: um Well, it just is, it is what it is, right? I mean, you have beautiful hair and it's like, it's like out, you know?
nick: Hell yeah.
Conor Fowler: and and that's like, I don't know, that's,
matt: you
Conor Fowler: people used to tell me that my hair was wasted on a boy.
nick: That's crazy. i mean, okay, so I think like to circle to that that Rick James point, I think like a lot of my inspiration for how I look, how I dress, how i put myself together is definitely shaped by like,
nick: who I am and who I was raised by. um and like wearing hair, like wearing hair that's less masculine, for example, is definitely um something that I think not many people are willing to do or willing to pull off because they feel confined within the bounds of, i don't know, like gender expression or their sexuality or something.
Conor Fowler: Oh yeah.
nick: um And I, you know, i'm proud.
Conor Fowler: Have you seen Cause my hair used to be longer than yours and it's red, you know?
nick: I believe you. And I think that's super rad. Yeah. Yeah. But I hear that. Like, I get what you're saying when you're like, oh, your hair has been wasted on a boy. And it's like, why is it wasted on a boy? Why can't boys have long hair?
Conor Fowler: Well, people wouldn't say that now. Like people were saying that to me like in 2004.
nick: Sure.
nick: Yeah. When it was less like socially acceptable to have long hair.
Conor Fowler: You know, when I was 14, yeah, it seems now like the long hair thing is like whatever, you know, like there are plenty of conservatives that have long hair um and even they baby their hair.
nick: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Like we figured out how to take care of human hair from black people and brown people, right?
nick: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Like white people figured that information out.
nick: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: And so now it's like,
nick: You can have cool long hair and you could be a straight man and have long hair and it's not.
Conor Fowler: right.
Conor Fowler: Right. It's not gay.
nick: Yeah. Yeah. Literally.
matt: I had a, I had a roommate, uh, like one of my, in my first apartment, we were good friends and, uh, he was kind of like, he had longer hair, but he had the kind of like balding in the front. You know what i mean?
matt: That, uh, that some people get, I mean, we were 20 years old. Um, but, uh, he used to use mane and tail shampoo.
nick: That's crazy. yeah
matt: Yeah, and, like like, it was a thing in in the early 2000s, like, or you know, kind of kind of like early internet.
nick: ah
nick: Yeah.
matt: I guess it was it was one of those things that i I feel kind of spawned a lot of the bullshit influencing things and, the like, you know, the ivermectin shit.
nick: Sure.
matt: It's like, oh, yeah, this is supposed to, like, work and make my hair grow back and, like, make it, you know, they use it on horses because it, like,
Conor Fowler: Works for a horse's hair.
matt: right you know they use it on horses and it it works really well and i was just like this is the weirdest thing i've ever seen in my life
nick: It works. The conspiracy nut. people People get insecure and they start slapping all types of shit on them.
Conor Fowler: I got some horse dick pills for you. Yeah, no, oh no.
matt: oh yeah yeah it's it's it's like that like you know there's a there's it's not really a meme but it's like everybody had that like you know one older person that they would ask about something and we just took that information to to heart and and thought about it for the next 15 years until like we could, you know, we could figure it out that it was bullshit.
nick: believed it
nick: the real way yeah i mean i i tend to be pretty harsh when it comes to like um pseudoscience and like uh what's there's probably a more respectful way to say this but bullshit that people make up just because like placebo works
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: know, dude. I think that's i think that's it. like I don't want to talk about something else.
nick: yeah
Conor Fowler: like It is fucking pseudoscience.
nick: Yeah, and like, i you know, my mom is guilty of peddling some of it to me, so I'm trying to be less...
matt: Yeah, yeah. And it's also... it's it's
matt: Oh, God.
Conor Fowler: What is the deal with...
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Very quickly, what is the deal with your your parents?
nick: Go ahead.
Conor Fowler: I mean, like...
nick: Yeah. So like, this is the question that I get at the bar all the time. Like, what are you?
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: um So obviously...
Conor Fowler: Well, that's why I asked about your parents. Yeah.
nick: Yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate it. I respect it. um And also, I like I'm pretty it's pretty clear that I'm a little bit rougher around the edges when it comes to my humor. And I don't care if people are like direct or whatever.
nick: um
Conor Fowler: Yeah, which I appreciate.
nick: But yeah, so I yeah, i'm I'm respectful of people's, you know, everybody's in the way they are. But I just like to be a little rough around the edge when it comes to my humor. um So I'm black.
Conor Fowler: Hell yeah. Yeah.
nick: My mom is the white mom and my dad is the black dad.
matt: Gotcha.
nick: dark-skinned dad white as mom and then i tell people like not only am i just regular white i'm like the type of white that got off the boat like before the country was founded white and then not only am i like african-american black but i'm like the type of african-american black that like ported in south carolina and did the great migration up north black
matt: Yeah.
nick: And so i I claim a deep rooted American history.
Conor Fowler: Wow.
nick: And because of that, i was I was smited by God to have the perfect mix of those two races. And so when people look at me, they just cannot figure out what I am.
Conor Fowler: have no idea. Because I wasn't going guess, but like that wouldn't have been my, that would not have been my guess.
nick: They're like, dude, yeah you can guess, but that's... always It's always wrong, but it's always so much fun. um
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: My favorite thing recently is like people will often start speaking to me in Spanish, and I'm like, no, no, no. I'm just regular American guy.
Conor Fowler: Well, cause we have talked about this before, like diversity is the answer. And like when ah two different people like create a child, it's like, this is my nieces.
nick: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: My nieces, like each one of my three nieces is like a perfect child, you know?
nick: Yeah, a mix of 50-50.
Conor Fowler: ah Yeah, exactly.
nick: Yeah. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Just bizarre, improbable, but it is 2026, right?
nick: yeah Yeah, it's kind of crazy. um
Conor Fowler: Like this is where we are.
nick: And I'm 26, so it's been we've been like this for a while. It's just, you know, harder to find people that...
Conor Fowler: You were born in the year 2000.
nick: um I was born in 99.
Conor Fowler: Oh
nick: Forgive me.
matt: Oh man, yeah.
nick: i'm and I'm a 90s baby, for sure.
Conor Fowler: my God.
nick: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Oh my God.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: That's so funny. That's so funny.
nick: yeah
Conor Fowler: I love that. Like, ah cause I'm maybe going to be starting to work in a high school. Like I've been out of working in a school for a little bit and I've only ever worked in elementary school, but they want me to be a guidance counselor in a high school, which is like, uh, terrifying.
nick: Oh, fun.
Conor Fowler: I mean,
nick: They're ruthless, not gonna lie.
Conor Fowler: but Yeah, but also very like, no one has said anything about my white man shoes.
nick: You'll really feel like Unk.
Conor Fowler: That's like a famous line of of one of my students, I was wearing my wallabies and and he was like, you got on those white man shoes, Mr. Connor? Yes.
nick: yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yes, indeed.
nick: That's what I used to call him in high school. People were even though even the regular Clarks, people would wear those.
Conor Fowler: And that's a
nick: And I'm like, dude, those look like the Pilgrim 11s. What are you wearing?
Conor Fowler: Well, it's so funny because like, I don't know, Wu-Tang popularized that shoe.
nick: Yeah, yeah. But like, you know, growing up, we we didn't see Wu Tang wearing them.
Conor Fowler: still looks like was. yeah Yeah, so like what my understanding basically to hear West Side Gun's telling of Buffalo is like
Conor Fowler: probably one of the worst places on earth, but also one of the best places on earth.
nick: Yeah, I mean, i think West Saigon was you know from a generation where Buffalo was a lot rougher around the edges. Yeah,
Conor Fowler: Like in the 80s, it was quite rough and tumble, I guess.
nick: yeah I mean, as most like cities were during the crack epidemic, it was pretty bad.
Conor Fowler: Right. Yeah, exactly.
nick: But the the reason Buffalo, I think, gets a harsher reputation is it's the most segregated city in America. um and so a lot of the, you know, judge the most, yeah, a lot of the judgment...
Conor Fowler: The most. Do you know how they came to that? like I mean, can you is it obvious on the map? Because here it's obvious on the map also. um
nick: Yeah, so Westside Gun hails from the east side of Buffalo, which is still the most black part of the city. And it maintains itself as like a pretty self-supportive community.
nick: um
Conor Fowler: Of course.
nick: And it's just you know it's split right down the middle of Main Street. um If you go on one side, you can tell that the neighborhoods are created for one type of people on the other side. There's a, you know, like parks and places to like go recreate with your family and there's flowing water. And then on the other side, like the east side of Buffalo, the water goes under the streets and you can't see the creek.
nick: And there's and industry and there's redlining and there's all that stuff that made. ah the city the way it is. But I think because there's such a stark difference in the neighborhoods, people who leave the city and come into the city and experience the neighborhood in ways maybe they weren't prepared for, they might judge it in a more harsh way because, you know, an impoverished community tends to look a little bit sketchier than...
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Conor Fowler: We got to get sponsorship for this show. I mean, we really have some genius guests on.
nick: I'm by no means a sociologist.
Conor Fowler: No, that was a fantastic. No, I mean, who gives a fuck?
nick: I'm...
Conor Fowler: That's a good, that's like as good a description of a city segregation. Like I'm really fond of this book. Maybe one of the only books that I've ever read again is this book, not in my neighborhood by this guy, Antero Pitello, who I just befriended on Facebook actually.
Conor Fowler: who we will probably have on this show if I have something to do with it. But he wrote this book called Not In My Neighborhood about racial hu housing covenants, all of which were pioneered here in Baltimore, right?
Conor Fowler: So the garden community, redlining, blockbusting, all that shit that started here in Baltimore and they took it all over to all the other cities to fuck over the black people there too.
nick: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: So I've heard a lot of cities talked about it in a lot of ways. And I think that was a succinct and informative one. Like I never been to Buffalo, so I don't, I don't really have a clue, but yeah.
nick: To be fair, like, you know, it's there's not much to see there. And I think that also lends to the the stereotype that like it's it's rough around the edges. You're not really going to Buffalo for many reasons. And so the people that do, they end up wandering in or they end up like accidentally like, oh, let me go check out this place after a football game. And they you know might see something that taints their view of the city.
nick: But you know i think west side gun West Side Gun's Buffalo is a very different Buffalo than it is today. I mean, I have an aunt who owns a ah wonderful vegan restaurant on the east and the east side, East Village, like I live in New york um
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Oh, speak my language.
Conor Fowler: Have you been to Dr. Byrds?
nick: York. Dr. Birds?
Conor Fowler: It's like a Jamaican chicken spot that they, yeah.
nick: A jerk chicken spot? Hmm. No, I haven't had it.
Conor Fowler: I don't know. I looked it up. It's extant still.
nick: Huh.
Conor Fowler: So yeah.
nick: Is that something that he references in one of his lyrics?
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: I'll check it out. um I'll be home probably in the next month or so. um But yeah, I mean, the east Side's great now. Like, it's beautiful. um Now, like, it was always great.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: But, like, it's it looks, it resembles more like a modern Bed-Stuy or, you know, a modern, like, historically black neighborhood that just no longer has as much of, you know, as that bad of a homelessness problem or that bad of a crack problem.
matt: Right.
nick: um because we've, as a society, decided to start supporting people in better ways than shoveling crack into their neighborhoods. But...
Conor Fowler: Well, yeah, I was going to say nothing has changed, but I'm pretty sure the like faucets of crack that the CIA opened are closed now. Or at least are partially closed now.
nick: Sure, yeah. theres there's Yeah, there's other faucets, but though those faucets are less are less visible and maybe more diverse.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. RIP Gary Webb. Yeah.
nick: RIP, Rotten Pissed.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Wow, very funny. um You got the next one, Matt, or...
nick: Yeah.
matt: yeah so this is a question that i thought of uh taking out the garbage a couple of days ago um in your yeah yeah and i feel like it's it's garbage that is a great great name for our show um i feel like this is gonna i think i know the answer to this but in in your current workplace are you the quote-unquote stylish colleague
nick: Love that. Garbage thoughts?
Conor Fowler: That should be the name of our show.
nick: I'll take a row too.
nick: Sure.
nick: yeah That's really funny. um I think academia suffers from people who don't care too much about the things that they wear on their bodies. They care more about the things that's in between the thing that's in between their ears.
nick: um
matt: Yeah.
nick: And so, yeah, I mean, I i wouldn't say like I'm, you know, I'm trying to be humble here, but I would definitely say I take more care of what I'm putting on and more. I'm more intentional with what I'm wearing.
Conor Fowler: Blast while you're dressed up?
nick: all the time. Like this morning I walked in and it's, it's over my shoulder, but I was wearing a Navy blazer and ah the chair of my department, who's an awesome guy and can be very well dressed.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: Looked at me and goes, wow, you're very dapper today. And I'm like, I'm just wearing a Navy.
Conor Fowler: Ah, dude, I hate the D word. hate the D word. I told so many people.
nick: I was wearing a ball cap.
Conor Fowler: People say it to me, and it's like, dapper is like, imagine the worst thing you could say to me.
nick: Yeah.
matt: Yeah, it reminds me of like early like early blogosphere, you know, times when like...
nick: It's like,
Conor Fowler: That's what that is.
Conor Fowler: Next year.
nick: like ah Like a fedora and a neck beard.
Conor Fowler: don't if you still are.
nick: And it's like, hello, my lady.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: And but and like, like were you you know, Williamsburg, Brooklyn hipsters, like, I don't know.
nick: For sure.
nick: Yeah, yeah. The the lelanel the flannel.
matt: it the The connotations.
nick: and like
matt: Yeah.
nick: it It comes off as like, you're trying harder than everyone else.
matt: The red wing boots, the...
Conor Fowler: It's like a mustache. It's like a mustache-shaped Christmas ornament you got from your aunt.
nick: Yes.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: um Because you look
matt: Although you do have a Respect. Respect. i respect respect
Conor Fowler: Yeah, dude.
nick: i get that I get that from my mom's side of the family for sure. Thanks.
Conor Fowler: What? Yeah, no, it's sick. um So we wanted to talk 2000s skate culture slash style, um your observation.
nick: Hell yeah.
Conor Fowler: So one of the smartest people I've ever known is this guy, Andy. ah He just is an amazing writer. Like he was working for Habitat for Humanity in Baltimore and he was knocking down this wall. He was doing demo and he found he was knocking down a swastika altar.
nick: What the fuck?
Conor Fowler: It was a huge swastika and like what he found, he wrote a cover story for the city paper here was there was huge support for the Nazis in Baltimore because there is a huge German population here.
Conor Fowler: But the poem is he once he wrote this essay where he described these characters as vaguely dangerous
nick: okay
Conor Fowler: like the cool kids, they're vaguely dangerous, which I thought was such a great descriptor, which you used ah talking about skating and like skate culture. You said there's an edge to cool. So I was wondering if you could say a little more about that. What were your coveted shoes or decks, what have you? I'm sure there was something like what kind of skate shoes were you wearing?
Conor Fowler: Hmm.
nick: Yeah, so like, I think the question asked me is like, where did you first get into clothing? um And i was trying to like really think hard. um And I think like, I have an older brother and he was kind of like the person that I looked up to ah eight years.
Conor Fowler: How much older?
nick: So a chunk older than me.
Conor Fowler: Okay.
matt: Okay.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. I'm the oldest of eight. Yeah.
nick: And I got a lot of his clothing as hand-me-downs. And so, like, and he, you know, he was, like, the cool, like, 2000s MTV VH1, like, bro that, like, loves Jackass and, like, Stevo and the Wild Boys and, like, all that shit.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
nick: And so, like, I was always trying to, like, i don't want to say follow in his footsteps because I didn't ever want to be him. But, like, I saw that he was cool and successful and people thought he was nice. um And so I wanted to be like that. But I also wanted to, like,
nick: it was it was falling out of favor in my generation. um Like, the the kids that were the skaters were, like, the ones that... i don't know. It's like the outsiders trope. Like, the one guy in the outsiders who's, like, a little bit edgier.
nick: He's cool, but he's cool in, like, a way that, like, is alternative. And so that's kind of my perspective on, like, the early skate culture is I wanted to...
matt: Right.
nick: I wanted to be, you know, wanted to wear baggy shirts. I wanted to wear my Fallens or my Etnies or my Americas. um I wanted to wear, like, some of these older, like, niche skate brands.
nick: Chunky, like, DC sneakers or your ugly ass, like, highlighter Osiris's, Etnies.
Conor Fowler: these yeah
nick: Yeah, like, I wanted to wear those because people would... Like I would have like a, know, like a character. People look at me and be like, oh, that's the, know, that's the the skate guy who keeps to himself or whatever.
nick: um and i think that was more just like me not knowing who I was, but also like really revering my brother.
Conor Fowler: Right, right.
nick: um But I think like the way that skaters just didn't give a fuck or that BMXers just didn't care how they looked or if their shirt was covered in blood from a skate accident or if it was ripped up.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: And I was like, that's cool. Like they're confident in some shit that people don't, like, i don't know, the mainstream doesn't really vibe with. And I think that's super cool. And I think that's where I got like a lot of my initial like spurt of confidence when it comes to like looking a little bit different.
matt: is
Conor Fowler: yeah yeah no exactly i mean i was uh like a fake skater too um like doing an ollie is very very hard and if you're nine years old it's really really really hard and so i never quite got there but it was like i don't know along with like hunk uh it was like
matt: I'm a man.
Conor Fowler: the dominant counterculture, right? So it was like you either were with it or not.
nick: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: You just kind of had to.
nick: And i so I still like to skate a bunch. I just don't have as much time anymore.
Conor Fowler: You do. You do.
nick: Yeah, yeah. I try. I try.
matt: Thank you.
nick: Like, i so.
Conor Fowler: Because you're kind of lanky, right?
nick: Yeah, a little lanky. I'm five eleven five ten I don't know.
Conor Fowler: There's some lank to that, I guess. Well, so I'm saying like... um
Conor Fowler: Do you feel like your racial ambiguity is like um sort of a sort of a positive chameleon factor?
Conor Fowler: Like, because people can't figure it out.
nick: For sure.
Conor Fowler: So people are just like, no, dude, but you are fucking awesome.
nick: For sure. For sure. I think ah I can that can cross that initial like um first judgment barrier pretty easily because people just assume that I'm one of them.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: um Like white people are like, oh, you sound like one of us. Black people are like, oh, you know a bunch of our references.
Conor Fowler: Right.
nick: And then like every other race that has brown skin is like, you look like one of me, but from the country that's next to the country I'm from.
Conor Fowler: Right.
nick: And so we always like, we can always...
Conor Fowler: That's extremely good.
nick: Yeah, we can always cross that initial barrier. And then when they find out that I'm not Pakistani, they go, oh, well, you're still cool. So I fuck with you. um And then I think it goes both ways.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, dude, because I mean, I went to this. Yeah, I went to this school that is like the most it was the most diverse school forever. And now the most diverse school is Rutgers.
Conor Fowler: But even so, like, I know a bunch of people, I guess, like of different sorts.
nick: Oh, hell yeah.
Conor Fowler: And yeah, you fooled me.
nick: Yeah, i come and it also like allows me to flow back and forth too, right? So like i was ah I was a skater bro, and all the skater bros accepted me.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: But another part of my background that not many people will ping off of a first conversation and is i was like a dedicated lacrosse bro. like I loved playing lacrosse.
Conor Fowler: Yo, me too.
nick: i was a midi i would
Conor Fowler: What did you play? What position did you play?
nick: i was a middie.
Conor Fowler: Nice.
nick: I took face-offs. I loved lacrosse so much.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it's a beautiful game.
nick: I played it all the way through high school. And people are like, you're a lax bro?
Conor Fowler: No, dude, and that's so funny.
nick: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that's so funny because always the black kids were the best lacrosse players.
nick: Go see.
Conor Fowler: Right. And I believe I mean, for real, like there is this kid, Corey Miles, he fucking destroyed.
nick: Hell yeah.
Conor Fowler: He was the only black kid on the team and he was the best player, like easily every position.
nick: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It didn't matter. Like so odd. I mean, I think like and it it it is an indigenous game. Right. So it's like it doesn't have all of the kind of bullshit that the popular sports have.
nick: Sure, sure. But yeah, i mean, i I also think like that there's a dichotomy between a skate bro and a lax bro.
Conor Fowler: But it was, of course. like
nick: And there's like, you know, a totally different scene of people. And fortunately for me, I was able to maintain both of those like connections all throughout my childhood.
nick: And so like, I think chameleon is like a cliche way to describe myself, but it's definitely something that I resonate with racial racially, socially, culturally.
Conor Fowler: Right. That's why I was having trouble with it. But like, now I'm going to do these tweets,
nick: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I don't know like what the politically correct thing is because I but I do find it. I do find it amazing like. And I guess that's kind of trite to say, but like, yeah, it is a really big and small world.
nick: For sure. For sure.
Conor Fowler: Which is nice.
nick: i did I think I derailed your question originally, but I enjoy derailing questions. It's kind of my job.
Conor Fowler: That's okay. I think Matt is going to ask this next question, um which is a classic Matt question that is like, I think very insightful. ah
matt: Yeah. thanks Thanks for giving me more credit than this do Connor. Um, so yeah, but yeah.
Conor Fowler: That's my job.
matt: Like kind of looking through, um looking through your fits and, you know, based on me and Connor and a lot of the people that we've had on the show, you don't seem to wear a whole lot of surplus and like military stuff.
matt: Um, and so we were wondering, we were wondering if this had to do with the fact that you were legit in the service or if there was something else about
nick: Yeah, it's it's a
nick: Yeah, that's a super good point. um I'll give a quick shout out to my my friend, Matthew Huey. um He's awesome dude, great sociologist and writes about a really ah a lot of really important topics. But he featured me on his page a few weeks ago after we had a personal conversation about how i was in the service and how you know my relationship with surplus works.
nick: And I think even after after having that conversation with him, I thought about it more because sometimes things are intentional, but other times like there's, they're not like, there's just not much there. um But I do think there's a part of me that shies away from traditional or even vintage military wear.
nick: um Well, I'm proud of my service in a way. It's not something that like I tend to share with the first person I meet. um And I think a lot of like,
Conor Fowler: Because you're normal.
nick: yeah Okay, yeah. i'll i'll be i'll be I'll be less coy. I think a lot of veterans have ah a place in their heart where they're like, man, I really wish I didn't do that. Or man, I really wish I would have done something differently.
matt: Right.
nick: And I think
matt: Mm-hmm.
nick: especially, and I'm not trying to like gatekeep what it means to be a veteran, but I think a lot of veterans leave with a little bit of sour taste in their mouth. And so i think part of that for me is, you know, why continue to remind myself of a part of my life that like, well, I'm proud of, it's not something that like I want to focus on or something that like, I want to be like spotlight for me.
Conor Fowler: Whoa.
nick: Um, is not I don't typically wear military surplus.
Conor Fowler: dude. Yeah.
nick: And when I do, it's in either very ironic ways. um Like I want people to be like, thank you for your service. Ha ha ha. Like as a joke um or it's in very subtle ways where it's just, you know,
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: Right. Right.
nick: ah vintage trousers that blend well into an outfit. Um, but yeah, i think definitely, I think it's corny to like walk around flaunting your, your military accomplishments.
nick: But I think like, there's also a way for me to do it where like, if you know, you know, so sometimes like a neckwear that I'll wear, like a dog tag as a neckwear for an outfit, and people won't see it, but it's a part that makes me still feel like it's intentional and connected or I'll wear like an old tee.
nick: Um,
Conor Fowler: and that's fucking awesome, dude. That's like the whole, that's like the whole background of this show is like what?
matt: Yeah, that's good. That's honestly a great answer and something like I wouldn't have necessarily, uh, wouldn't have necessarily known where that was going to go.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: Yeah. Hell yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. I I'm in the same, in the same boat. I mean, sometimes it's like Matt comes up with a question and it's like, damn, that's going to a fucking good question. But like, uh,
matt: That's, that's also partly why, like, I, I love military stuff. I've collected and sold it. I pretty much, you know, two thirds of my life at this point.
nick: Also, I should make it clear, like, I don't think military surplus is lame at all.
matt: Um,
nick: I think it's cool, and I think people should wear it.
matt: no No, no, definitely not.
nick: I think more people should wear it, and I think more people should lean even more into it. Like, you could full-on LARP as a fucking soldier, for all I care. People who are veterans, won't give a fuck about that.
matt: Right, right.
nick: It's people who are, like, ah I don't know, like, cornballs who...
Conor Fowler: Fake veterans, like, yeah, we all know the people who are.
matt: Yeah, I...
nick: big Yeah, yeah. Who are like, that's taking, yeah, Stolen Valor.
matt: And...
nick: Like, I don't give a fuck about Stolen Valor. I saw a dude the other day at wearing ah like a a BDU, like multicam, army top and then he had ribbons like a ribbon rack on the outside of the army top like of the of the fatigue army top and i'm like first of all that is not even close to how you wear it and the ribbons are upside down and backwards but that looks fucking cool so i i fuck with it he was wearing he was wearing like an airman rank on an army top and i was like what the fuck is this guy doing but it looks cool i'll give it to him
matt: right right
matt: yeah i've said this
matt: Yeah, I make it a point because I just, I don't want to be talked to by by most anyone in public unless I know them, you know what i mean?
nick: Sure, sure.
matt: I don't wear shit that's patched or stenciled. Well, I have one thing that has my last name above the pocket, but there's no other, you know, no other shit out there.
Conor Fowler: what what is here What is your last name, Matt?
nick: Yeah.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
nick: And the four digits on the back of your credit card, please.
matt: Ha ha ha.
Conor Fowler: No, no, what is your last name, Matt?
matt: But I think I've said this on the show probably a couple of times, but like I've gotten shit exactly one time for wearing anything military, and it was a fucking World War II Marine Corps P-41 that had the EGA on it.
matt: and some No, no, no.
nick: Oh, I thought you were describing the person. i was like, man, fuck those World War II Marines.
matt: Well, it was a veteran that sold surplus and was like, why are you wearing that if you didn't serve? And I'm like, motherfucker, you're selling surplus.
nick: Corny.
matt: Like, what the hell?
nick: Yeah, it's so corny.
Conor Fowler: Matt has the most common last name.
nick: Anybody that has a perspective.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: That's the point of my joke.
nick: Oh, Smith. Yeah, that's good point.
Conor Fowler: Yes. So it's not like Matt had like Chalthazor.
matt: Yeah. Yeah.
nick: met a lot of Smiths in my time.
Conor Fowler: It was like Smith.
nick: Yeah.
matt: If you, yeah.
nick: The hyphenated last name.
Conor Fowler: Exactly.
matt: if it
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: If you search Matt Smith on any search engine, literally only the only thing that comes up is the dude that played Dr. Who. I love that.
nick: Yeah, hell yeah. That's awesome. i'm I'm a big fan of normal, common, regular white people last names. I'm a Nick James.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: You too. Well, because I was figuring you were going to come out with some outlandish name. And then Zach was like, I'm pretty sure it's James.
nick: Yep, very normal.
Conor Fowler: And I was like, well, so that's a fucking like, that's an irony in itself, right?
nick: Very English, too. And my mom's side is pretty English. And the last name comes from my dad, and he's not English at all. So...
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: Well, that's the thing. Like, I don't like black. flag people adopted white-ish names because they, you know, so it's so, yeah, it's so much.
nick: Yep.
Conor Fowler: It's like anything that you, you know.
nick: So it makes me buying military surplus significantly easier because I can find things with my name all the time. Plus I have a lot of stuff that was issued to me that's just like sitting in closets.
matt: Oh yeah, totally.
nick: um And so every once in a while I'll break something out with my name on it.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: Okay.
nick: But I also don't want to be asked.
Conor Fowler: But if I was in the military, I wouldn't wear that shit either. Like, I would be like, yeah, I never, I was in, I did black ops.
nick: Yeah.
nick: Yeah. yeah oh well
Conor Fowler: So I can't actually tell you about it.
nick: That's like one of my favorite part. I think that's the thing that I love the most about being a veteran. And this is sad probably for the people out there who think it's something to be super proud of. My favorite thing is spotting when people are definitely lying their asses off.
nick: um Like it's, it's always like an Uber driver or something.
matt: Mm-hmm.
Conor Fowler: Right.
nick: Like I get to meet a guy and he's like, like, Oh yeah. Like I'm like, Oh, what'd you do before? He's like, Oh, I was, a I was a Marine and I like served in this crazy, you know, the battle of tilted towers on Fortnite.
nick: And, uh, I, you know, have this decorated pass and he says it's just a bunch of like buzzwords and I'm like, oh, cool. Yeah, I was in the military too. And they were always shocked when they were like, oh, a 25, 26 year old dude, how is that possible?
Conor Fowler: Right.
nick: But it's, I love spotting like the people who are the ones that probably get mad when people wear military surplus are also the ones who like in their private time, like LARP, like they were like fighting for justice or whatever the hell they think they were doing.
nick: So fun.
matt: Totally. I've noticed too, like the, the only people that I've met in my like, you know vintage selling and collecting life that get pissed off are people that served post Vietnam because every, every like Vietnam or older vet that I've met is the coolest person.
nick: Yeah, and...
matt: And they're just, fucking stoked that someone gives a shit about what they were wearing in the jungle.
nick: Absolutely. And like most people, I think it's careerists too, right? Like I try not to stratify people in the military, especially people of color, but there are there's a significant difference between people who separate from the military prior to a 20-year retirement and people who stay in for their whole time.
matt: Yeah, yeah, totally.
nick: um And the people who stayed for the whole time, they just get brain rotted, man.
matt: Yeah.
nick: Like, they come out, like, fucking... Like a... You know, like the Gunny from Saving Private ryanot private Ryan or whatever, and they...
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: Yeah, Gunny Army. They have, like, one brain cell, and it's the color of a red crayon or something.
Conor Fowler: yeah
nick: But...
Conor Fowler: For real. Well, it's like, I don't know. That's, and that's like another truism too. Like the longer you stay in a place, the more fucking brainwashed you become.
nick: For sure, for sure.
Conor Fowler: So it's like really good to go outside.
nick: Yeah, and that's what I did. I got out of the military and I got a job.
Conor Fowler: So this is perfect segue then.
matt: Thanks.
Conor Fowler: ah Your bio says menswear your own way. What is your own way?
nick: um I don't really know if there's a definition for that. And if you take a scroll through my page, you can kind of see it.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: And, you know, I'll give the preface. I created this account, I think about a year ago now, um mostly to be a an archive for myself.
nick: um I remember I was scrolling through photos on my phone of a year ago or two years ago when I first started this page.
matt: Thank you.
nick: I was like, damn, I looked way different. Like, why was I wearing that? What was I wearing? And i had followed a few menswear people on Instagram, but as like a lurker, like I was never involved in the menswear community. It was always just like, you know, people that came across my feed organically and I thought they looked cool.
nick: So I followed them.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that's why you weren't following me.
nick: um And I saw somebody... Sorry. um But I'd seen people say like, you know, this is my archive. or This is my style. ah I don't know dictionary or something like i I, post these here so I can look back at them i'm like, oh, that's cool.
nick: And I have a, you know, I don't have a public Instagram account. So why don't i why don't I give that a try? um And I started posting videos or reels or photos and, It was rough at first and my outfits were still a little like, you know, out there in terms of conventional style styling. um But I had a a lot of fun and then all of a sudden like people started interacting with me they were like, hey, this is cool. I like that. And I started interacting with them and I started adopting some other people's style.
nick: and bringing you know mixing things in and taking my current life and you know things that i do and kind of putting that a little twist on it so i think menswear or whatever my bio says um fashion my way or however the fuck i worded it is yeah it's it's it's a little corny but i think it's it's okay because like that's exactly what it is right like i'm i'm not i'm not trying to like fit
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm. Men's Wear My Own Way, which isn't corny, I don't think. like i think that's like...
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Definitionally correct, yeah.
nick: Yeah, I'm just trying to do whatever I feel like doing. um And that's that's how I come up with most of the outfits that i'm wearing.
Conor Fowler: Well, and that is less articulate than Men's Wear My Own Way, so I guess it works.
nick: Precisely. i didn't want a long a long bio, but I also wanted something that was descriptive to the people who are taking a glance.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
matt: Totally. Totally. And you're pretty big into second-hand and vintage, right? Like, just judging from, you know, your FitPix and things of that nature. did did that come Did that start, you know, when you were younger, like in the in the skater days, or has it just kind of...
nick: For sure.
nick: Absolutely.
matt: Okay.
nick: Yeah.
matt: Dope. Dope.
nick: So like, and now i would say over 90% of my clothing is, is either secondhand sourced individually, like by myself, um or like sourced through all of the other ways you can get secondhand clothing.
nick: I do like to be boots on the ground thrifting. Like it's one of my passions, one pastimes, one of my hobbies. um So all like the majority of my clothing is not like everything.
matt: Yeah, yeah. And new york New York City is a fucking fantastic place.
nick: For sure. And like, even like the old Rust Belt towns or cities, suburbs, like you can find something everywhere. And that's kind of like my favorite thing to do is if I go on a little vacation, instead of like finding a bunch of food places that are like the 15 food, best food places in Boston that you need to go to, I find myself driving all the way up to Lowell and like going to a thrift store.
nick: Or if I'm in, I don't know, insert a random, random city, I i drive outside to go to a thrift store and like
matt: Hell yeah.
nick: just explore and see what opportunities and what options there are out there. um But I definitely think that started when I was younger.
matt: Ciao, bro.
nick: think I got my first job when I was like 13. And so I had like my own pocket change pretty early on. And a friend, a really close friend of mine who we've, Haven't talked in a while, but we were really close in high school.
nick: He got me into this YouTuber called Paul Cantu. And I don't even know if he still makes videos. I just remember his name because I was never subscribed. I would always just search his name in the YouTube search bar.
nick: And he would like go to thrift stores and buy hypebeast clothes or like buy like old Jordans, which this is kind of pre like sneakerhead wave. And he would like go and his entire thumbnail would be about like, oh, I just growled this thing. And then I resold it for this much money.
nick: And I was like, is that what his nickname is?
Conor Fowler: His nickname, the thrift God. That's what it is on his page.
nick: Hell yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, the thrift God.
nick: I'm happy he's still out there.
Conor Fowler: Paul Cantu. Yeah, dude, he's still, yeah
nick: And so I would just like copy him and like go and be like, yo, look at this cool. Like, but instead of doing like sneakerhead, like a hypey shit, it would be like, look at this cool polo country, like vest or whatever. i would find stuff that like I knew had value in the secondhand market, but I would find it myself.
nick: Um, and then I would wear it. I'd wear the hell out of it. And so that's kind of where it started. i did it. i hate to say this. I did it before it was cool. Um, everybody thought I was gross.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: so it i
nick: Everybody thought I was gross for like exclusively shopping at, uh, Salvation Army or whatever.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: they're like, dude, you're going scabies if you don't wear, if you don't wash those clothes properly. Um, yeah, I've never got, I've never gotten scabies.
Conor Fowler: We have as a British people.
nick: Um, but I love,
Conor Fowler: Right. That's like all the money is.
nick: Exactly. I love i love ah thrifting. I've always have. And then secondhand grew even bigger once I became an adult. And now like buying online or trading with friends or going to vintage markets, like that's now a huge thing.
nick: And it's just supplemented my thrifting.
matt: Yeah. Yeah. you You also thrifted before private equity came into the picture. And, uh, yeah, that's, that's another topic for an entire fucking episode at some point.
Conor Fowler: Right.
nick: Yeah, fortunately.
nick: Absolutely. You guys are you guys are due.
matt: Oh yeah. So yeah, I guess to to kind of wrap things up, uh, I have to give him credit every time, but this question is, is one that we have adopted from John, Leisurely Loafing. But what are you wearing in the apocalypse?
nick: yeah Hey, John. um Good friend. Appreciate you, buddy. um So what am I wearing in the apocalypse? or That's a crazy question because like i don't know the answer to it. And everybody probably stammers like this.
nick: And I should have been prepared because I have seen clips of you guys asking this question. And I'm goingnna keep rambling until I think of something. um I think what i what I'd wear to the apocalypse would be something that makes me feel comfortable.
nick: And that's usually like outdoor wear, probably something fishing themed, um like maybe an old fishing vest, a pair of trusty hiking boots.
matt: Yeah, you gotta to have pockets.
nick: Gotta have lots of pockets, but I think like if I knew the apocalypse was going to happen, I'd want to go out doing something I love, which is being outdoors. Um, and so I think I'd want to be well prepared for that. Maybe an old cap that has a cool logo or something on the hat.
nick: Um, gotta make sure I have my glasses cause I'm super blind without them.
nick: I don't know, some comfy ah wool trousers because they feel like sweatpants sometimes. I think like if I know the world's going down, like I'm just going to spend it doing the things that I love.
nick: But if it's a surprise, it's and I guess it's whatever the fuck I put on that morning.
matt: There you
matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: It's a good answer.
nick: It's an answer.
matt: It is a good answer.
nick: I don't know about a good one.
Conor Fowler: It's a, uh, I don't know.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: I mean, cause like, i don't really have a great answer that isn't like a joke. You know what I mean? I'm wearing loafers motherfucker for sure.
nick: I think I'm pretty sarcastic, so I don't have a good answer. That's very serious. But yeah, I think something that's comfy. I don't plan my outfits, so I think literally whatever I rolled out of bed that morning wearing, if I was not prepared for the apocalypse, would have to be my last outfit.
Conor Fowler: If I'm gonna die right, I better be maximizing my dopamine. So I'm doing that however I can.
nick: Yeah. If I see it coming. If not, then like damn, that would be crazy if I died like in my morning commute. I would be pretty upset.
matt: Well, if if Connor and I can suggest one thing that is going to break your surplus rule, it's a fish, it's a fishtail parka.
nick: sure Let's hear it People been working it on me people have been working it I'll keep my eyes peeled
Conor Fowler: Yeah, yeah, you could join the fishtail gang, man. I mean, it really, it's listen, I mean, it's the most popular answer.
matt: Yeah, you gotta you gotta to join the fishtail game.
Conor Fowler: For a good reason.
matt: It is. I'm pretty sure that pretty sure that me, John and Connor all included that in our, in our apocalypse fence.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: Well, I guess like it depends on the weather forecast right
matt: Cause you, but, no but no, this is the, and you can use it for a tent.
Conor Fowler: Basically not. The point of the parka is that it's thin and light, so you can wear it.
matt: If you need to, even if you need to sleep outside, you can just get a couple of sticks and prop that fucker up and you gotta, you know, you got a decently dry place to sleep.
Conor Fowler: Right.
nick: Hell yeah.
nick: Well, maybe and maybe I don't understand. what type of What type of apocalypse are we talking about?
matt: We're talking about like the war the world is ending and and we're...
nick: Like...
Conor Fowler: Well, it's a gently rolling kind of meandering apocalypse.
matt: a
nick: Okay, yeah, because I'm like, the only apocalypse that I can imagine happening before the actual end of our species as we know it would be something nuclear or something like some massive illness or something.
Conor Fowler: In a flash.
nick: Yeah, like it would have to end like that.
matt: I think we're...
matt: I'm thinking of it when I asked the question in more of a like Mad Max Fury Road kind of way.
nick: Okay, okay. In that case, I'm wearing nothing but, like, a jockstrap and, like, iron fucking shoulder pads and, like, a scary mask because I want to, like, really intimidate people.
matt: yeah right oh man this has been hella fun dude thank you for coming on and yeah and shooting the yeah
Conor Fowler: Fuck yeah.
nick: yeah
Conor Fowler: And we don't say that to everyone.
nick: Thanks for thanks for lying And I'm just kidding. Thanks for having me on.
Conor Fowler: yeah
nick: I appreciate you guys.
matt: yeah yeah this was a nice like rousing you know kind of like stream of consciousness episode which is always one of our faves so we we appreciate it nick
Conor Fowler: Yeah, yeah.
nick: I tried to talk about clothing a little bit, right?
Conor Fowler: And it went.
matt: Yeah, we did.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: We did. And like, we we love to say that the show is tangentially about clothing.
nick: Cool.
matt: Like it is a clothing based show, but it's not our senior focus. We're not like, I don't need to hear someone talk about tying a four in hand. Not, you know what i mean?
nick: Cool. Cool. You don't want me to intimately describe to you the fundamentals of biology?
Conor Fowler: How do you do a Ralph tuck?
matt: No.
nick: yeah
Conor Fowler: Can you tell me how to do a Ralph tuck? Because I'd like to do that. And oh yeah.
nick: How about I show you to do a Nick tuck?
Conor Fowler: Oh yeah, baby. Hell yeah.
matt: and And honestly, like, talking about the ins and outs of but the biology field would be much more interesting to me than then talking then having someone tell me that Japanese salvage genital is great.
Conor Fowler: So much more interesting. yeah
nick: Well, then you know what?
matt: You know.
nick: I'm going to violate my cardinal rule, which is never buying one of those little fuzzy microphones that I feel like everybody is buying. And I'm going to get one, and I'm going to make videos about introductory biology topics just because you said that.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: You should. yeah Dude, I swear to God, there's got to be a following for that.
nick: There is.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: That's just not for me.
Conor Fowler: For sure.
nick: It's not me for me to make.
matt: Yeah, I understand.
nick: so
Conor Fowler: For sure.
matt: that's yeah That's also not for us, which is why like we we don't have some booming you know follower account or whatever.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
nick: Well, how about this? We all go, we'll pitch in and we'll buy one of those little fuzzy mics and then we can mail it to each other and like share it.
matt: yeah give Give us your biology you take. Anyway, Nick, Dave, yeah.
nick: Here. Yes. ah Subway takes biology takes. I
matt: ah Once again, thank you. Tell everyone where they can follow you and see your great fits and possibly future biology related content.
nick: think.
nick: I'm going to have you run that back because I think you cut out a bit.
matt: Oh, I'm sorry.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, you put out
matt: I cut out.
Conor Fowler: put out
matt: Yeah, sorry. tell Tell everyone where they can follow you and possibly see some biology content at some point.
nick: Okay, ah if you're interested in checking me out, my at everywhere is Nick wears stuff, because that is what I do. I wear stuff. um Something mean that's really important to me is like breaking the parasociality of social media. So if you think I'm cool, and I think you're cool, let's interact on there and try to make the world slightly better place.
nick: I won't be posting biology content, but every once in a while I post a video of me in the field or something like that.
matt: Oh, yeah.
nick: So
matt: Solid. Solid. Well, yeah. Everyone, thank you for listening. We are at ApocalypseDuds on Instagram. ApocalypseDuds at gmail.com if you want to c send us fucking anything.
matt: i am Matt Smith at RebelsRoads.
Conor Fowler: i am connor fowler Connor Flower.
matt: And we will see you next week.
nick: Peace.
Conor Fowler: but
nick: Oh, I like that you got balloons.
matt: Ha, ha, ha, ha.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, buddy. All right.
