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Wisdom with our Finances | Episdoe 49
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Danny and Shane discuss finances and how we can show wisdom in them and what the Bible has to say. There's so much to cover but they do their best to get to the bottom of some of the more difficult questions.
Scripture References:
1 Timothy 5:17-18
1 Corinthians 9:14
Galatians 6:6
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:32
Danny Price
All right, hey everyone, welcome to Table Talk Discussions. This is episode 49. We are jumping back in a little later in the week. I'll be really, really busy week going on.
00:00:43
Danny Price
Really excited to get into this episode with you guys.
Financial Wisdom in Sermons
00:00:45
Danny Price
This is wisdom with our finances. So Shane preached this message and i thought it was a great message. And I think Shane, you it sounded like you were a little nervous or maybe you're anticipating this ruffling feathers.
00:00:52
Shane
sorry.
00:00:56
Danny Price
Why?
00:00:57
Shane
Well, I just, yeah, I mean, i don't know if I was nervous so much as I just, I get, I just have kind of come to accept the fact that in our culture, this is one of the topics that people get upset by.
00:00:58
Danny Price
What do you think?
00:01:11
Shane
And, you know, honestly, i would say 80% of our church, they don't get upset. They're, they, in fact, actually many are encouraged by it and, and get excited about about it.
00:01:22
Shane
um And then there's probably, you know, even though they know there may be even there's some conviction to it, right?
00:01:23
Danny Price
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:01:28
Shane
They're still, they appreciate it.
00:01:29
Danny Price
okay
00:01:30
Shane
um But there's just generally, there's two to three people on ah any Sunday that we preach about money that they just kind of come, they, they have kind of a worldly mindset about it or a negative mindset about it, or just naive in the way they They think the Bible talks about it, so they don't think it should be talked about at church. And so, yeah, so you just kind of expect that.
Reactions to Money Talks in Church
00:01:58
Shane
And then the hope is, right, that you're actually able to come at it in a way that opens their eyes and influences a little bit and opens them to what the Spirit might really be wanting for them in their life, right?
00:02:10
Shane
So, um yeah, so that's that's kind of where I come from with it.
00:02:10
Danny Price
Yeah. No, think it's hard. it's a
00:02:16
Shane
um Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:18
Danny Price
Yeah, you're trying... you're trying to to upset people biblically. You're not trying to upset them just to be abrasive.
00:02:25
Shane
Yeah.
00:02:25
Danny Price
You're trying to say like, hey, hold on guys.
00:02:25
Shane
Just to be upset.
00:02:26
Danny Price
This is what the Bible says. like
00:02:28
Shane
er
00:02:29
Danny Price
um I did like how you said you know you were talking about, hey, if you're showing up to Mountain View and you're like, oh, the church just wants my money, you're like, I'd much rather have you give to some other organization or to another Christian organization that's not the church, is if it could just get you giving, as opposed to you have to give here.
00:02:45
Shane
Yeah.
00:02:47
Danny Price
If you don't give here, then you're not a you're not a real Christian if you're not giving to Mountain View. you know Something along those lines where it's kind of more like like manipulation or something.
00:02:56
Shane
Yep.
00:02:56
Danny Price
that was Because that really takes away any excuse that someone might have. cause I know a lot of people really despise hearing about Or even having a plate pass. I think we're kind of getting away from that now because digital giving is kind of how everyone does it now. Like nobody's really writing in checks as you know as much as they used to, at least. So I know i know a lot of people that that kind of ruffles their feathers to have a plate pass in front of them. It's like a lot of pressure.
00:03:17
Danny Price
So ah like I like how you said, hey, you know what? if you're not going Mountain View, we'd love it if you did. But you know you give somewhere else, like as long as you're giving. Yeah.
00:03:24
Shane
Yeah. I've gotten where I try to say that every time I do something giving anymore, because I just, it, it just kind of soothes people like when they're, when they have that mentality kind of and it's not really, you can argue about with it.
00:03:39
Shane
Like, look, Hey, I'm just wanting you to gain this, this heart that you're the, I believe God will give you when you start being generous.
00:03:43
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:03:46
Shane
And if that, if we're the barrier to that, then take us out, you know?
00:03:51
Danny Price
Right.
Cultural Perspectives on Greed
00:03:52
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:03:52
Shane
So yeah.
00:03:52
Danny Price
No, totally. but No, that's that's really good. Well, cool. um Well, again, guys, you know, listening, if you listen to the message, a lot of this will make more sense.
00:04:02
Danny Price
We're going to jump into questions. I have some questions. And then I think actually Hannah and the girls, or some of her friends, they all came up with some questions that we we talked about on Sunday. So we've already kind of pre-screened some of these. And I thought a lot of them were really good. So a couple are mine a couple are theirs. So first off that I had,
00:04:19
Danny Price
And this is just like more of just like a hypothetical question because you talked about greed being the worst sin that Americans struggle with. And I and i would say, why why is it the worst? Why do you think that's the worst? Well, easy to say that.
00:04:31
Danny Price
When I start looking at greed in the Bible, it comes up as that word greed, but it also comes up a lot like with like a bunch of cross-reference words with like covetousness and idolatry. like It's all kind of like the same kind of thing or similar things.
00:04:41
Shane
Yeah.
00:04:42
Danny Price
So why is it the worst or why do you think it's the worst sin that Americans struggle with?
00:04:47
Shane
Yeah. I mean, and obviously, you know, I'm not, I'm not going off of a study or anything. I'm going off of my heart and what I see and what I see in scripture.
00:04:53
Danny Price
Sure. Yeah.
00:04:57
Shane
And, you know, like you said, I mean, it the greed comes up a lot in scripture in general. So it's obviously a sin that a lot of people deal with. Um, yeah.
00:05:08
Shane
So even in most cultures, it's it's going to be a sin that people are dealing with a lot. And now you throw into the fact that we are a culture that almost idolizes greed itself.
00:05:22
Shane
um You know, um we we have, this is probably the, I would say the last 15 years or so is the first generation, even in the United States of people who they want to get rich just like like literally a bunch of people who they just want to be known for being rich. They don't want to accomplish anything. They they don't, you know, and I'm not saying all, you know, or most, but it is actually a thing um where, you know, and even your generation would have kind of laughed at someone who talked that way. so So it's becoming something that's more and more. Yeah.
00:06:02
Shane
you know And then I go back to, I didn't have time. I cut it out of the sermon. fact, it's funny because you didn't ask that. You usually ask is if there's anything I cut.
00:06:10
Danny Price
Oh, yeah.
00:06:10
Shane
um I cut it out of the sermon.
00:06:11
Danny Price
Yeah, sorry.
00:06:12
Shane
I was going to dig into Luke chapter 12, the parable of the rich fool. um
00:06:17
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:06:18
Shane
But you know even if if you read through that parable where it's, you know for the those that don't know, it's the man who, um you know he gains a bunch of wealth.
00:06:30
Shane
I mean, his his land produces a huge plentiful crop.
00:06:33
Shane
So he thinks, hey, rather than give some or rather than you know um share that wealth, um i'm I'm going to store up more. um ah So he tears down his storehouses, build builds bigger ones and just stores it all up.
00:06:33
Danny Price
man
00:06:45
Danny Price
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:06:46
Shane
Um, and then, you know, he, it ends up all being taken from him in the end. But if you look at some of the language, even within that, it's, it's language that kind of looks that that oftentimes go, well, that just makes sense.
00:07:04
Shane
He's just trying to, he's, he's doing good. He's smart. Um, you know, he, he's being wise by doing those things.
00:07:08
Danny Price
yeah
00:07:12
Shane
Um, and so we, we hide greed in this, why this wisdom kind of language that it's a false wisdom. um And so, yeah, I mean, just we're in this culture that is very greedy. It's hard. We're surrounded by it. um You know, you look at the amount of debt within American households and and Christian households pretty much, I think, from what I know, are the pretty much the same.
00:07:38
Shane
um You look at how much, how little most Christians give. I didn't even get into the fact that the average Christian only gives about two to three percent of their income. um you know, that like what could be done if Christians really tithed, if you went, you know, the average real church attending Christian tithed all the way across the board.
00:07:59
Shane
I mean, the amount of money churches would have to do ministry is mind boggling. So um yeah. So, I mean, there's just so many, many things. I don't think it's the worst sin as far as like there are other, it's yeah, but it just, it's,
00:08:11
Danny Price
The worst, did yeah. But it's the most prevalent, or possibly the most prevalent, but yeah.
00:08:16
Shane
Yes. Yeah. I, I really don't think, like said, I just don't think there's anyone in our church who could not raise their hand if they were really being honest with themselves. And then, and we were asked, Hey, raise your hand.
00:08:28
Shane
If you struggle with greed, I think every single person would have to raise their hand to some them.
00:08:30
Danny Price
Yeah. oh
00:08:32
Shane
And maybe I'm wrong.
00:08:33
Danny Price
Yeah. No, I think you're right. I think you could also lump at it in with like selfishness or just like self-centeredness. It all falls into that same thing.
00:08:38
Shane
Yeah.
00:08:39
Danny Price
It's just, you're looking after yourself and you want the best for yourself. And sorry, everybody else. This is, it's about, this is the slightest life is about me. um
00:08:47
Shane
Yeah.
00:08:47
Danny Price
No, I don't. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. and So when when I Google it, it says the word, the noun greed is only mentioned eight times in the Bible, but the, like the the
Challenges of Wealth and Generosity
00:08:56
Danny Price
forms of greed, like covetousness and all that stuff, like greediness is mentioned like over 70 times in the Bible.
00:08:57
Shane
Yeah.
00:09:01
Danny Price
Like it's incredibly, it's a, it's a huge, it's a huge thing.
00:09:01
Shane
yeah
00:09:04
Danny Price
So, um, yeah.
00:09:05
Shane
Yep. I heard a line. i'll I'll just share this with you because I thought it was cool. um It says that greed may not be the sin we confess the most, but it is probably the probably the the sin we excuse the most.
00:09:20
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:09:21
Shane
You know, so you know that so it might not be the most confessed in in the in the church, but it's probably the one that we excuse than anything else.
00:09:22
Danny Price
Interesting. interesting oh interesting. Interesting.
00:09:31
Danny Price
Yeah, no, that totally makes sense. Because I could see how you could look at it and go, in well, I'm not being greedy. I'm just being smart. I'm just trying to save or I'm trying to whatever. But again, your heart behind it is you could be wrong.
00:09:41
Shane
Yep.
00:09:42
Danny Price
Yeah, that's good.
00:09:43
Shane
Yeah.
00:09:43
Danny Price
guess kind of goes into that same. This next question kind of goes into that. Just that same thought. um Can you be greedy and poor? I'll just break that. I'll just do that one first. and then there's more to that question. But let's start there.
00:09:54
Danny Price
Can you be greedy and and poor? Is it possible or is it only possible for rich?
00:09:57
Shane
Yeah. Yeah. I think absolutely. Because once again, it's ah it's a heart issue. It's not a amount issue. You know, you have to look at what is your,
00:10:05
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:10:08
Shane
the Greed is, that like you said, it's kind of covetousness is going hand in hand with that. It's this desire. Do I have a desire that I feel like always needs to be met.
00:10:21
Shane
You know, um you know, the wealthy person just has the more the ability to to act out the greed, I guess. Right. But ah a poor person can be sitting in their poverty and just constantly envying those who have more resenting those who have more obsessing over money they don't have um all those kinds of things.
00:10:38
Danny Price
okay
00:10:43
Shane
And that's those are all coming out of a heart of greed versus a heart of gratitude and thanksgiving. So, um, yeah, I definitely think it's, it's more just what is your heart demanding versus, um, versus how much you have.
00:10:56
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:11:00
Danny Price
No, I totally agree. Yeah. And I, I think, um, I've got to be careful how I say this here. i just want to be because it's not necessarily the perfect example, but you hear stories about how someone who's incredibly poor wins the lottery.
00:11:16
Danny Price
How a lot of the times they'll end up right back where they started.
00:11:18
Shane
Yeah.
00:11:19
Danny Price
I'm not saying that's all due to greed. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's just they make bad decisions or bad investments. But a lot of that is if you're if you have a certain spending style um and it's very consummatory, like Shane said, you can still be rich and greedy, obviously.
00:11:28
Shane
Yep. yep
00:11:34
Danny Price
like It's very common. So i'm not this is not the perfect analogy. But you just see how someone who is who had nothing, who gets everything, you would be like, well, then they have everything. it shouldn't they be totally fine? Not necessarily.
00:11:45
Danny Price
A lot of times, those people end up spending it and ending up in a worse situation. I think a lot of us have heard that before. I'm not saying that's a perfect comparison. I'm not saying they got poor just because of greed. But yeah, I totally agree. I think it can be there even if you are poor.
00:11:59
Shane
Well, and I, and I think real, real quick, the, um you know, there again, the parable of um the stewards is a good example of this, that, um you know,
00:12:07
Danny Price
okay
00:12:13
Shane
I've known some just super wealthy people that they're just really good stewards with what God gives them and God continues to bless them. And so they learn to handle, they've learned to handle money where honestly they might not even, some of them don't even make as much as others, but you would guess that they even have a lot more because they just,
00:12:35
Shane
they, they handle it well. They get, they've, they've been faithful with the little. um And so how they handle it, how they give it, all that kind of stuff. um It, it, it plays out where they're, they are, they end up being pretty wealthy, you know, versus those who are not faithful with the little they have. And so then when they are given much, they, they'd have, they have no means to really take care of it and handle it well.
00:13:03
Danny Price
Yeah, that's a good parable.
00:13:03
Shane
So,
00:13:05
Danny Price
That's a good that's a good comparison. Right. um
00:13:07
Shane
And that's not to say that all wealthy people handle their money well, right? I mean, they yeah.
00:13:11
Danny Price
right
00:13:12
Shane
so But it ah i just you can see a good steward of – I've just – chances are if you know very many wealthy people, you know some that you can tell or you see good stewardship and then you see some that, no, they're just – it's all about spending it on themselves.
00:13:29
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:13:29
Shane
so
00:13:29
Danny Price
Or it was gotten just deceitfully or whatever.
00:13:32
Shane
Yeah, in other ways, yeah.
00:13:32
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:13:33
Shane
Mm-hmm.
00:13:33
Danny Price
Right. And I guess this is this is kind of part of this. It's that same it's the same question, but it and it kind of ties in. On the flip side,
00:13:45
Danny Price
is there a certain sinfulness or a certain struggle that all the ultra-rich people are going to fall into? So we just talked about the that the poor people. you know flip it to the ultra-rich.
00:13:57
Danny Price
is there so Is it wrong to be ultra-rich? Is there a certain sense, and what might those be? or not sins, but struggles that they might have within greed that they are going to struggle with way more.
00:14:10
Danny Price
And what does that look like? Because I know it right now in like America, like this is really popular, at least to people that are my generation or a little younger, the whole like socialism that people are trying to push of like, it's wrong. Like, it's not just like, it's not, it's not wise, but like, it's wrong to be Jeff Bezos or it's wrong to be Elon Musk and to have billions of dollars, or even millions of dollars, like it's just wrong and you shouldn't have that much.
00:14:31
Danny Price
Um, obviously that comes with some struggles. Do you think it's wrong? Do you think that's sinful? Um, is there something about being rich that is going to cause you to stumble, um, and to struggle just by then just just by being rich?
00:14:44
Danny Price
that's that's but That's a lot of like ideas. I'm just trying to float stuff your way. What do you think about it when you're, when you're really rich?
00:14:47
Shane
Yeah.
00:14:49
Danny Price
Like, is, is it wrong? Is it right? Is, how do you handle it? What's, what's the right way to look at that biblically?
00:14:53
Shane
i don't I don't think there's an amount of money that you anyone can say is is wrong. I think the issue is you have to look at you know rich people are going to face a unique set of temptations and the richer you are.
00:15:07
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:15:09
Shane
the the more you're going to face that temptation. You know, you're going face the temptations of false security in your and ah and pride and feeling self-sufficient with not needing God. um You're going to be insulated from needs more than other people. um And you're going to find your identity and your wealth more than other people.
00:15:31
Shane
Those are all temptations you're going to, you're going to face. And so you take a Jeff Bezos or ah Elon Musk. And, and i mean, obviously they, they face those at huge levels and I know nothing about any of these guys other than, you know, I mean,
00:15:44
Danny Price
Yeah, right.
00:15:48
Shane
Musk is definitely one who you can kind of, he gives off the impression that he, he falls into a lot of those temptations, um you know, but, but at the same time, you know, I don't know the guy.
00:15:55
Danny Price
Yeah, right. Right.
00:15:59
Shane
So maybe he's always just kind of had, some people have that kind of aura about them and, you know, even maybe he doesn't, but, but they're going to face that more, but I don't know.
00:16:04
Danny Price
Right.
00:16:08
Shane
I don't think, I think it's judgmental and wrong for anyone to say, well, there is a certain amount, there's a number. And then after that number, you're,
00:16:17
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:16:18
Shane
You know, so, so yeah, no, I don't, how ultra rich can you be?
00:16:19
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:16:21
Shane
i i don't, I don't, I just don't know that you could say that it's, it's bad.
00:16:28
Danny Price
What would you tell someone? I mean, i don't think we really have anyone that's like that ultra rich at Mountain View or anything, but just like,
Biblical Tithing and Generous Living
00:16:33
Danny Price
let's say you could get, you could have their ear for a second. Would you say you should give more? Would you say you should, like, what would you tell that person?
00:16:40
Danny Price
Would you say, Hey, keep doing what you're doing. Would you say, find a way for your money to mean something? Like what, would like, does it, this is not on the list, but like, what would you tell them?
00:16:46
Shane
Yeah, I mean, I would say, i mean, yeah, I mean, you know, there again, and for people who have very much money, you know, these...
00:16:53
Danny Price
Very much money.
00:16:53
Shane
can
00:16:54
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:16:54
Shane
that um
00:16:56
Danny Price
yeah
00:16:56
Shane
yeah For people who have a lot of wealth, that these kind of conversations can almost... i don't know, they sound silly sometimes and in the way they hear them, but, um you know, because they...
00:17:06
Danny Price
Hmm. Hmm.
00:17:09
Shane
a lot of times people go, well, I, yes, I have wealth. I don't have an extreme amount of wealth. Um, they, they have money tied up in things. Um, you know, so it's, it's hard to know exactly where and what, but I, but I mean, the conversations I have with people is there's one gentleman in the church. Um, he, I love what he says. Um, you know, he says he feels like God has called him to, um, influence people with,
00:17:37
Shane
influent and with affluence, affluence, how do you say that? Affluence, but if you added
00:17:43
Danny Price
Affluent? Affluency?
00:17:44
Shane
in
00:17:45
Danny Price
Affluency? Is that a word? Affluency? I'm going to look that up
00:17:47
Shane
Affluency, but it's he's trying to add it as a disease. Affluenza. Affluenza is how he says it.
00:17:53
Danny Price
up.
00:17:53
Shane
So I i couldn't get the word. But you know he says, you know i I believe God's given me the ability to influence people with affluenza.
00:18:01
Danny Price
Ah.
00:18:02
Shane
So the idea that people are infected with the disease of affluenza.
00:18:06
Danny Price
No, that's a real thing. i just looked it up.
00:18:07
Shane
Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:08
Danny Price
Yeah, affluenza is ah it's a psychological or social condition. Interesting.
00:18:12
Shane
Oh, okay.
00:18:12
Danny Price
Huh.
00:18:13
Shane
See, I thought he made the word up. no Anyway, but I love it because it's that idea that, hey, I'm in circles of people who do have quite a bit of funds and you know want to encourage them to think about it differently.
00:18:28
Shane
you know um And I do think it's it's really great when people who have the funds like that are willing to have those kind conversations because now you know it's almost like right if you – if you're not someone who who deals with money at that level, and then you're going to speak into someone's life who does, it's almost like a single person trying to tell a married person how to be married.
00:18:51
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:18:52
Shane
You know, um like I, I really don't, I've never dealt with ah the kind of money where I have to think about investments at that level.
00:18:52
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:59
Shane
Right. I do like very moderate, clean, best investments, you know, that kind of stuff.
00:19:00
Danny Price
yeah yeah
00:19:06
Shane
I, yeah so,
00:19:06
Danny Price
a
00:19:09
Shane
So it helps when you have that. But I definitely think, yeah, if you see someone who's open to it, it's always great to have those conversations of like, what what are you doing with it How is it?
00:19:22
Shane
being used for God's kingdom. And only you can answer that. Right. I do, I do my best to never try to guilt the person like, well, you should be giving more than anyone else in this church to, to, um, you know, the, the church or tithing more or what, you know, cause I don't know where else they're giving their funds and that kind of thing.
00:19:30
Danny Price
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:41
Shane
And so,
00:19:41
Danny Price
Right, yeah.
00:19:42
Shane
it is It's always a tricky conversation, um but you know thankfully, we ah I would say we have quite a few people in our church who do very well and who are very open to what God is wanting them to do with what they have.
00:19:59
Danny Price
Yeah. No, and i and it's always a tight line of, you know because I do this with camp, you know, we'll have people that donate to camp and, you know, give towards building projects and, you know, scholarship funds that we're trying to get kids to camp. And it's always, ah it's very hard to talk to someone when you're not in that world or you're not, you don't have that same, um you know, you're you don't have that same level of wealth. It's hard to talk to them because without feeling guilty or without feeling like you're, you know, like you said, like a single person talking to a married you know couple, it's like, I don't know what it's like to be in your position.
00:20:29
Danny Price
and you've obviously been gifted with a lot of opportunity and responsibility um with your finances. And it's hard, you know, it's, we can make requests, but it's also hard. And it's a it's a, it's an uncomfortable, like little dance of like trying to show them,
00:20:42
Danny Price
why it matters, like what, what why what we do matters without being like, oh, but yeah, you can just give whatever you want. And like, you can, it's, it's a, it's an awkward, you know, it's an awkward little dance that you have to do with them without being trying to be manipulative or be desperate almost where please just give us money.
00:20:58
Danny Price
Please just give us money. Like, you know what i mean Like, and I think a lot, and I think a lot of people who have a lot of money, I think are used to that happening and almost are almost tired of it.
00:21:06
Shane
Yeah.
00:21:06
Danny Price
So it's just, it's hard, you know, you just want to be authentic when you're asking. It's a little bit different because we're a nonprofit.
00:21:10
Shane
Yep.
00:21:11
Danny Price
We're not a we're not a church. but um But you're totally right.
00:21:13
Shane
Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:14
Danny Price
it is it ah It is awkward to talk about it.
00:21:14
Shane
But. and And from what I've seen, most people that. handle with a lot of money and deal with money a lot. They actually are relieved by just the honest, clear, direct conversation about it.
00:21:30
Danny Price
Yeah. Yep.
00:21:31
Shane
And they don't want a lot of beating around the bush.
00:21:32
Danny Price
Yep.
00:21:34
Shane
They don't want, you know, they, they maybe want, yeah, they don't mind a couple of stories about the importance of it and, you know, and the facts and that thing, but they don't, they don't want someone to, you know, beat around the bush.
00:21:35
Danny Price
Don't schmooze me.
00:21:45
Shane
So yeah.
00:21:46
Danny Price
yeah no and Yeah, no manipulation. Anyways, that was a little bit of a rabbit trail, but still interesting.
00:21:50
Shane
yeah
00:21:52
Danny Price
Just to bring it back home for us, my next question was, what are signs of greed in my life? where What are some warning bells that are going off that would lead you to think, hey, um I struggle with greed?
00:22:06
Shane
I think any of the questions that should always be answered with God, if if if money or items or whatever are the answer,
00:22:21
Danny Price
Hmm. Hmm.
00:22:21
Shane
then you definitely need to consider that. And, and what I mean by that is like, right.
00:22:25
Danny Price
i mean
00:22:27
Shane
Most, most strong Christians are not ever going to say, well, money is gonna make my life ah fulfilled, right. They're going to always say God, right.
00:22:38
Shane
But in your head and in your self-conversations, do you ever have those feelings like, well, if I have this item, I'm going to be more fulfilled. um if If I make this much more money,
00:22:55
Shane
I'm more fulfilled. um You know, are you rationalizing why not to be a, a, a giver? um You know, i well, i would give this much more money, but you know, I need to do this.
00:23:05
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:23:11
Shane
um You know, if we're answering with these kinds of justifications on things, and I think we have, we have to look and say, Hey, you know, we struggle with grief.
00:23:23
Shane
So,
00:23:24
Danny Price
yeah I would even add into that too. um
00:23:30
Danny Price
I'll just like, I'll show an example um of me and my life. And this will hopefully like kind of paint a picture. So Hannah, you know, and I will, we try to have people over to our house as often as we can, especially, you know, in summer when we have a lot of like college kids around and we're trying to, you know, bless them.
00:23:42
Shane
Yeah.
00:23:42
Danny Price
um I've noticed myself every once a you know, and I'm trying to break out of this every once in a while where, you know, she'll be getting like some kind of dish ready or something for them. And I'm like, oh, well like that costs us some money.
00:23:54
Danny Price
ah like in my mind and I'm like, you know, I know it's for a good purpose, but it like it hurts to give, to give it a little bit. You're like, Oh, Oh, that's gonna, that's gonna cost like, you know, like even if it's like 10 or 15 bucks, you just like think it's like, you just think about it.
00:24:06
Danny Price
And I think this is a great example of just being generous and being greedy. If you find yourself tightly holding on to all these things that you have, um,
00:24:15
Shane
Yep. yep
00:24:16
Danny Price
it's just like a warning sign. And I know I, and I do this with, you know, with other stuff too, but you're like, Oh, like I don't want to give that person a ride. Cause it's going cost me extra gas money. You're right. I don't want to do this because it's going to cost me a little bit more. and There's a difference between being wise and living within your means and being like, hey, actually, I don't know if I can afford to do this, you know, this big extravagant gift for somebody. Like, that's that's different. um But if you can afford it, which we, you know, and we can totally afford to help, you know, give the summer staff a treat or Hannah can bake cookies for them or whatever it is, or we go through an extra bag of coffee, you know, to make them espresso drinks, whatever it is, we can afford to do that. That's not a big deal. It's just in my mind, the attitude behind it is just like, oh, that's going to sting a little bit on finances. Yeah.
00:24:55
Danny Price
Because it's you know it's it's not going to us. It's going to other people. And I think as soon as you start having that attitude and you start realizing that and feeling that, I think that's, for me, that's a warning sign of like, hey, why might why am I being greedy about this?
00:24:58
Shane
Yep.
00:25:06
Danny Price
Like, God has blessed us so much with so much. Like, why am I like holding back on these like this this little thing? Like, it it makes no sense. um For me, at least. I don't know if you've experienced the same thing.
00:25:16
Danny Price
You guys are incredibly generous with a lot of your stuff, but...
00:25:17
Shane
aye No, I totally experienced that. Well, I even, you know, I'll, I'll confess, shoot. I've even gotten that way with, you know, you guys all come over every Sunday and, um, you know, there's times where I get, you know, like I I'll, you know, and you guys are all great about like picking a week and doing a meal or whatever.
00:25:26
Danny Price
i
00:25:37
Shane
But sometimes if we don't communicate it, it'll be three, four weeks in a row, if fight you know, that we're cooking things.
00:25:41
Danny Price
Mm-hmm. Yep.
00:25:43
Shane
And I'll be like, man, no wonder our you know, our grocery budget is $1,300 a month, you know, i can't, you know I'm feeding so many people.
00:25:47
Danny Price
Our food budget is just...
00:25:51
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah. What happened?
00:25:54
Shane
So yeah, 150 of it is just one day. Right. You know, every, so anyway, um, the, um,
00:25:59
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:26:02
Shane
So, no, I totally feel that way. But then same thing. And i then I get convicted of like, Shane, you are in a totally different place than they are. And you need to you know be be generous on this.
00:26:14
Shane
and it And you're my kids. You're not even like you know people that I just randomly know. So, um no, i totally I totally understand what you're talking about.
00:26:20
Danny Price
Mm.
00:26:23
Shane
Um, you know, yeah. And I would totally go with the, uh, I keep saying totally, uh, I would go with the, um, uh, the borrowing thing too.
00:26:33
Shane
yeah I think, you know, there's things, um, I noticed like if I'm ever like, oh I don't want them to borrow that, you know, because I worry. Then I generally I'm like, i i catch myself. say what What's the what's the problem? And 100 percent there are certain things it's like, well, man, I can't afford to. There's no way I can afford to.
00:26:55
Shane
buy that again and need it.
00:26:57
Danny Price
okay
00:26:58
Shane
Well, that's a little bit different, I think, but there's plenty of things that, and yeah, i might not be able to afford to buy it right now, but one, did i do I even really need it? you know
00:27:07
Danny Price
Right. Yeah.
00:27:08
Shane
And two, even if I couldn't afford to buy right now, if I put it in the budget within probably three or four months, I could get it again. And so with that stuff, I'm generally trying to say, hey, if if I catch myself being stingy with it, that's that's a greedy attitude.
00:27:24
Danny Price
Yeah. You know, and it says God loves a cheerful giver. i mean, you can be a giver and a stingy giver. And I think you're kind of losing some of the blessing that comes from giving because you're like, yeah.
00:27:31
Shane
Yep.
00:27:34
Shane
Absolutely. You're very much, I think not kind of, you very much are losing the blessing from it.
00:27:40
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:27:41
Shane
So...
00:27:42
Danny Price
um All right, next question. um So just wanted to talk about a tithe. I know that this comes up. This is a huge thing in just like you know online circles of like, is a tithe of even biblical?
00:27:52
Danny Price
Like nowadays, should we do a tithe? why would What would your argument be for telling a believer like 10% is a good place to start as far as giving?
00:28:04
Danny Price
What's the biblical reasoning behind it? And does that still apply to us today?
Is Wealth Inherently Wrong?
00:28:07
Danny Price
And why why would you say 10%?
00:28:11
Shane
um Well, 10% is because that's literally what the meat word means.
00:28:15
Danny Price
Yeah, right.
00:28:15
Shane
um Tithe means 10%.
00:28:15
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:28:18
Shane
And why the biblical reasons? Yeah. I mean, a lot of people will say, hey, that's only Old Testament, right? Yeah. I disagree with that. um My reasoning is one, if it's old Testament, you'd have to say, well, it's from an old Testament law, but we see it two times before the old Testament law in Genesis.
00:28:39
Shane
um In Genesis 14, you see Abraham gives to McKelzidick a 10th of everything he um got from the plunder.
00:28:47
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:28:49
Shane
And in, um in Genesis 28, Jacob vows to give God a 10th of everything. So, you know, you, you see it before it's it's a precedent that was set before the law. Um, you know, and then you get into the new Testament and,
00:29:14
Shane
Yet Jesus, you know, people bring up Jesus rebuking the Pharisees for it, where he says you tithe on your mint and rue, and but you neglect the bigger things.
00:29:22
Danny Price
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh-huh.
00:29:25
Shane
I don't think he was saying you shouldn't tithe. I think he was saying you still have the wrong heart. You're giving something, but you have no you don't have right the right heart behind it.
00:29:33
Danny Price
Uh-huh.
00:29:34
Shane
And I think what he's saying, and I would say that he's saying, or that the New Testament is in general, is saying, um Yeah, that's that's kind of the the standard, but Jesus wants all of us. Don't set that standard and go, well, now I'm good. I don't need to worry about it because I've given my 10th.
00:29:56
Shane
That's kind of the standard that keeps our heart. I guess that's the standard that keeps our heart in tune, I guess, right? Kind of like worship, right?
00:30:03
Danny Price
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:30:05
Shane
we We wouldn't say that... um you should only rest on the Sabbath or you should only come, you should only work.
00:30:15
Danny Price
h
00:30:17
Shane
You should only have any time of, um, of worship on this on Sunday. You would say, Hey, that that's kind of what sets the standard in your heart.
00:30:29
Shane
Um, and sets the tone of your heart and your life for the rest of your life. And I would say the same thing with a tithe. A tithe sets the tone for your heart and how you handle your money. um And then from there on, now you kind of see it.
00:30:45
Shane
And if you keep the right heart, you see it as this is just, I start with that because it's God's. And i so give him the first fruit of my harvest. And then after that, I still have that mindset. It's all his. um And that's what Jesus was getting on the Pharisees about is that they, they, you know, that they didn't have that mindset. um And, you know, we need to have that mindset. And then also I just looked this up, um you know, in Hebrews seven, one through 10, it references Abraham giving to Melchizedek again, as a, as a mindset that, so, you know,
00:31:26
Shane
I don't think Hebrews would mention it as as a thing if it wasn't something that, you know, it was trying to get across that that should be our standard. So...
00:31:37
Danny Price
Interesting. No, yeah, and and I would agree. I think the reason people fight up against it is because don't know why. I mean, I, I, I, I get why, but I think there's lot of resentment against giving to a church and feeling any kind of pressure.
00:31:53
Danny Price
Um, but you kind of dissolved, you know, by what you said earlier, you know, we talked about that earlier, about you don't have to give to the church. If, you know, if if that's uncomfortable for you right away, what would you tell someone who's been giving to somewhere else right away?
00:32:05
Danny Price
or im sorry, you've been giving to someone else for a while. and they're going to this church and they're going to Mountain View or just any any church consistently, why what would you tell them about why it's and why why is it important or why would you say it's biblical to give to that church and to that ministry?
00:32:12
Shane
any church.
00:32:23
Shane
Yeah, I would, that's glad you brought that up. Cause I was gonna say, I would definitely say that people need to get that. When I say that about, Hey, give somewhere else that one I'm trying to do is speak to the immature believer or the, you know, the, maybe even the nominal but or non-believer.
00:32:36
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:32:40
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:40
Shane
But for a mature believer, I actually do believe we should be tithing to the church um and then giving above and beyond and other places. But, um you know, you,
00:32:57
Shane
I would just even on the human mindset, right? Like, look, do you benefit from your church? Is your church blessing you? Do you believe in the ministry of your church? If you don't, you probably shouldn't go to that church.
00:33:07
Shane
You should probably be going to a different church, right?
00:33:08
Danny Price
yeah
00:33:09
Shane
But if you believe in the ministry of the church, you you um trust that God is using that church for his purposes, his kingdom, then you should be giving to it.
00:33:20
Shane
um And then if you don't, that's a whole nother issue that you should be bringing up and dealing with. Um, don't just sit there in the church and stay there, but don't, not trusting it the whole time.
00:33:32
Shane
That's, that's a bad thing.
00:33:33
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:33:34
Shane
Um, but, um, you know, I, the precedent was that, you know, you, you gave to the, the, ministry that, you know, was at hand for you.
00:33:48
Shane
So to the old Testament, you know, they actually gave to the temple.
00:33:52
Danny Price
To the Levites, yeah.
00:33:52
Shane
um But, but then the new Testament, each, we see that each church gave and collected offering within the church.
00:34:03
Shane
um So, um so yeah, that's why I would say we we need to be giving to the church.
00:34:12
Danny Price
Interesting. um
00:34:17
Danny Price
With giving... im trying to figure out how to... Let's say you're you're feeling kind of paranoid or you're feeling kind of tight with finances, should you just jump into 10% in your mind or is there, so you start out at 7% if you can, if you can do that and work up to 8% or 9%,
00:34:41
Danny Price
What do you tell someone who's like, I just, I can't like, I i don't know where that's going to come from. Um, they're that tight. Is that a money management situation that you might had to be Hey, need look at your finances and you need to, you need to make some decisions. Or is that something that you, ah you would ask them to kind of ease into.
00:34:57
Shane
Yeah, I encourage people to ease into it. i encourage people to start with a hurdle that doesn't scare them from running the race.
Practical Financial Stewardship
00:35:05
Shane
you know um
00:35:06
Danny Price
Yeah. Okay.
00:35:07
Shane
the So you know i would say, hey, start with something that is still going to be a little leap of faith. And I like that term hurdle because, right? I mean, have you ever jumped hurdle? jumped a hurdle
00:35:18
Danny Price
no Oh, yes, unfortunately I have.
00:35:19
Shane
um Okay. So on a track, right, when we were football players, there was hurdles on the, and, and they always had the different sizes and we used to just mess around, like putting them up when we have to practice and we'd put them up and see who could jump the the highest, higher ones, you know, and we'd always start with a kind of the lower practice starting ones because almost none of us were
00:35:37
Danny Price
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:35:45
Shane
just Just by trying could just jump the normal hurdle. We almost always would eat it. And, you know, I think sometimes even the smaller ones were a little scary. Like they were scary to kind of run at, like at a full speed and and jump.
00:35:57
Danny Price
Yeah, sure. sure
00:35:59
Shane
And I would say the same thing goes with this is you want it to be a step of faith. You want it be where it's like, ooh, it's a little scary, but not where you just know, like, well, haven't even learned to manage.
00:36:10
Shane
I haven't learned to budget and steward yet. on this So i i I'm going to start so high that it's I'm just going to set myself up for failure. So start with a smaller hurdle, you know.
00:36:20
Shane
And that, to me, 3% is a pretty good hurdle because – it um it requires a little bit of a stretch.
00:36:31
Shane
Most of us make enough where if you look at 3%, you go, Oh, that's, you know, that's a little bit of money that I would have liked to use for something.
00:36:37
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:36:40
Shane
So you actually feel the the sting a bit, you know, and yet then you still see God deliver and God fulfill regardless.
00:36:43
Danny Price
yeah
00:36:49
Shane
And, and then from there start moving, moving up. And I would say, I like kind six-month thresholds, I feel like is a good faith-stepping movement at you know six months, starting at 3% and 1% up every six months from there.
00:37:07
Danny Price
Hmm. Okay. That makes sense. Um, in case you guys are wondering, listening, you're just like, I don't, where in the Bible does it say we should pay pastors or pay the church? Um, I'm just gonna throw out three references to you.
00:37:19
Danny Price
You guys can look these up on your own time, but first Timothy five, uh, 17 and 18 first Corinthians nine 14 and Galatians six, six. And I'll put those in the description. Um, but just, if you wanted to do your own research and just, you know, kind of dig through some of that stuff, um, just for the sake of time, I'll go ahead.
00:37:32
Shane
Well, you know, and while while you're bringing that up, I'm sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you. What were you what we saying?
00:37:37
Danny Price
No, I was just going to say, just for the sake of time, I didn't want to read all those and go into each one and everything. But yeah, go ahead.
00:37:42
Shane
Yeah. Well, and while while you're bringing that up, real quick, just in case anyone doesn't know this, at our church, and I would say most churches, there are a few kind of, especially in the Pentecostal world churches where this is not the case, but almost every church I've ever been a part of,
00:38:00
Shane
The pastor's salary has nothing to do. Well, sort of does have money. It has to do with how much money comes in because their salaries get cut if there's not enough to pay them.
00:38:09
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:38:11
Shane
But, you know, pastors don't get like, oh, well, the the but the so you know the tithing went up a lot. So the pastor gets more.
00:38:18
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:38:19
Shane
Pastor salaries are set by... different congregational members, or if it's a denominational church set by the denomination, it really has nothing to do with any of what's coming in and that kind of thing.
00:38:30
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:38:32
Shane
So, so there's not some like motivation from pastors that, Oh, you know, if I, we do this, we're going to get raises or, you know, anything like that.
00:38:38
Danny Price
yeah
00:38:42
Danny Price
Well, you do have a motivation.
00:38:42
Shane
Um,
00:38:43
Danny Price
The motivation is to bless the congregation and the community into and to spread the gospel.
00:38:47
Shane
Well, yeah, but no, it's not a motivation.
00:38:49
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:38:49
Shane
It's not a personal, it's not a selfish motivation.
00:38:50
Danny Price
yeah yeah yeah Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
00:38:52
Shane
Yeah.
00:38:52
Danny Price
no
00:38:52
Shane
so just so everyone gets that, because I do think people have really weird and different ideas about all that. And, you know, and then even then you always see these, um these huge pastors that their salaries are like, I just saw, I can't remember who it was, one of the bigger names.
00:39:09
Shane
And it was like, can you believe he lives in a, I think it was like a $1.8 million dollars estate. They used the word estate. And I'm like, okay, first of all, is that an estate?
00:39:20
Shane
I mean, that's 50% of the houses in Hebrew, it feels like nowadays.
00:39:26
Danny Price
Oh, at least, yeah.
00:39:27
Shane
Probably not quite, but but you know what I mean? so So I saw the picture and everything, and it it was a nice house, and and it was probably true, but they made this big deal, and I'm like, okay, but let's do the numbers. This pastor is a pastor of a church of about 15,000 people. He has a staff of like 200 people. You compare what he is making— with any CEO that runs like like a company, and he's probably making about a quarter of what any, even the lower paid ceo CEOs that would be handling that. so So he's still, for his amount of responsibility, is still making a very...
00:40:07
Shane
Like just, you know, a good livable, you know, little bit higher than livable wage. Plus he writes books. And so who knows how much of his money is coming out of books, that kind thing.
00:40:16
Danny Price
Right, right, right.
00:40:16
Shane
So, so there's just so much on all that that and I think people get these weird ideas about it. So.
00:40:23
Danny Price
That opens up a whole other can of worms about like how big of a church is too big and how much like it how much responsibility should you be having? We can't get into that.
00:40:31
Shane
Yeah.
00:40:31
Danny Price
But there's a whole there's a whole there's a whole nother like, well, how big is like how why is your church?
00:40:32
Shane
Yeah.
00:40:37
Danny Price
30,000 people meeting and meeting across, you know, X amount of campuses. Is there you know, there's a whole theological debate to be had there, um which, you know, if you guys are interested, we'll maybe we'll pick that up.
00:40:48
Shane
do Another one on that.
00:40:50
Danny Price
um All right, next questions. And again, these are all these are not mine and are better, I think, honestly. So that's that's embarrassing. um What's the balance of not putting trust in your finances versus being wise and taking your kid your taking care of yourself financially? Excuse me.
00:41:07
Danny Price
Should we just all be poor? Should we all just give every possible dollar to other people and then not take care of our families? um what's What's that? What's the balance?
00:41:16
Shane
Yeah, I would say, you know, having the mindset that God has entrusted me with resources and I need to manage them wisely. ah i
00:41:25
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:41:27
Shane
There are times I feel like, yeah, you might have, ah God might really convict someone where he gives them something specifically so they can give it away. I do believe that God does that. But We also look at the history of the world. We look at the history of believers, their church the the Bible, what we see the but believers in there. And God, we don't see any place where God called his people to always be poor.
00:41:57
Shane
um You know, in fact, he actually sent the Israelites out of a place of bondage and poverty into a place flowing of milk and honey, ah a place of, you know, where they would prosper.
00:42:10
Shane
Um, and you know, so we, we see God prosper people and them have lands, them have homes and have all these things all throughout the scripture.
00:42:11
Danny Price
a
00:42:21
Shane
So this all idea that any, we all have to be poor, I don't think is biblical, um, at all. Um, And, you know, I don't think saving is sin. There's also biblical um precedent for people saving, um you know, planning our finances is, is wise. Um,
00:42:43
Shane
But the difference is when we start to hold there, that's where i would go to the tight fist concept that I talked about with, um, on Sunday that when we start to hold tight with a tight fist, what God gives us, that's wrong.
00:42:49
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:42:58
Shane
But, um, and that's when I feel like we're starting to put our trust in our finances, but I don't think that there's any idea, anything wrong with any of us having a certain amount of money.
00:43:11
Danny Price
Let me think. Let me think. have kind of a follow up question for this.
00:43:23
Danny Price
Should it hurt though? Like, should it, I gotta, I'm trying to figure out how to formulate this so it's not like, I'm not saying something I'm not trying to say. um should ah Should it hurt to give a little bit in the sense that our giving is going to elicit a sense of, and I know we've already talked about this in the past a little bit, but like ah my, I'm giving so that my, and my life doesn't look a certain way because I'm giving and I'm, I'm going to give away till it hurts.
00:43:51
Danny Price
And then I'm going to give a little bit more because like being generous is a blessing. Is, is that the right attitude to have, or should we only give within what is comfortable? Does that make sense?
00:44:00
Shane
No, i I would say it should hurt a little bit.
00:44:01
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:44:02
Shane
and
00:44:03
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:44:03
Shane
um And that's why honestly, there again, a lot of the wealthier people I know, they do give well ah well over and above 10%. um And many of them who would say, you know, the reason they don't like the tithe is I've even heard a couple of them say,
00:44:12
Danny Price
Oh yeah, I'm sure.
00:44:21
Shane
I don't like the tithe preached kind of legalistically at all because it yeah they they've I've heard them say like, because it made me once I started tithing think, oh, I'm i'm doing everything I need to do.
00:44:32
Shane
You know, once again, getting that pharisaical attitude about it versus when you open up to like, no, God wants your whole heart.
00:44:39
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:44:40
Shane
And so, you know, that's, I know a lot of wealthy people that give way over and above that number, you know, even into, you know, 30, 40, 50% of, of what they make because, and, and, you know, you could say it could be argued, well, someone who makes that should say, you know, 2 million a year giving 50% there, they're not really hurting.
00:44:53
Danny Price
Ooh, I have follow up question.
00:45:05
Shane
Well, okay.
Understanding Church Finances
00:45:06
Shane
No, they actually, they're, they're going to feel that compared to, you know, ah someone who makes 150 or 200,000 is giving their 15 or 20,000 because they, they really could be living a completely different lifestyle than what they're living.
00:45:18
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:45:23
Shane
So, you know, it's there again, that judgmental attitude of, of saying, well, you don't feel that.
00:45:24
Danny Price
yes
00:45:30
Shane
Well, and you know, you do, it's just different.
00:45:31
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:45:34
Danny Price
I have another judgmental question that's fun. Is it totally your description?
00:45:36
Shane
Okay. Well, real quick, let me just, let me just take, I want to, on that one,
00:45:38
Danny Price
Oh.
00:45:42
Shane
Anytime someone wants to argue, well, they're not, they don't feel that, you know, they, you know, they could give so much more and not feel that. I, my point would be like, dude, go to a developing country. Cause I could tell every single person in America, i know the exact same thing.
00:45:54
Shane
You could be making $30,000 a year tithing off that.
00:45:54
Danny Price
Okay.
00:45:57
Shane
And I will still tell you are not feeling that compared to most people in the developing countries around the world.
00:46:04
Danny Price
oh
00:46:05
Shane
So, you know, it, yeah, that it's all relative, right?
00:46:10
Danny Price
No, i I totally agree with that. um This is a, I guess you could call it a judgmental question. Why don't you tell someone? I just totally thought of this. you know Let's say on your taxes, you're you're filing your return and you're claiming you know the not the standard deduction you're doing itemized.
00:46:24
Danny Price
And you instead of giving or instead of tight or ah paying taxes to the government, you're just going to give to an organization to kind of get rid of that. Because you got to give the money away. So might as well give it to a...
00:46:34
Shane
Yeah.
00:46:35
Danny Price
Is that, i mean, that falls under giving, but would you say that that's giving because it's going to go out of your, you're just deciding instead of taxes, you're going give it to someone else. Would you, would you qualify that under giving? Does that make sense?
00:46:46
Danny Price
What I'm saying? Is that, is they're going to have it either way.
00:46:46
Shane
Yeah. They're going to, basically they're not going to have it either way. So it's a matter who's getting it.
00:46:51
Danny Price
So is that, is that really generosity? I mean, I mean, please do that. That's great. You should be doing that.
00:46:55
Shane
Yeah, please do it. I don't know if I would call that the same kind of generosity, um you know, but, um it's wise, you know, because you, then you get to give it to something that you think is beneficial.
00:47:10
Shane
Um, but,
00:47:10
Danny Price
Right.
00:47:13
Shane
I don't know. That's a tough one. I've never been in that situation, so it's hard for me to speak into it.
00:47:16
Danny Price
Yeah. Sorry. That's a.
00:47:18
Shane
um But you know i don't i don't poo-poo anything that is what i you know is giving money away.
00:47:29
Shane
um I think there's all ah all of it is a level of showing some type of generosity, but I don't know.
00:47:35
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:47:35
Shane
that I'd be interested to hear two or three people who run in that kind of circle talk about that.
00:47:41
Danny Price
Yeah. Sorry. That was totally a niche thing. It just came up when you were talking about like giving huge amounts.
00:47:45
Shane
Yeah.
00:47:45
Danny Price
and i'm like, I know people that do that, but a lot of it is going to go away anyways.
00:47:48
Shane
Yeah. I'm sure some of your gifts from the camp fall into those things.
00:47:48
Danny Price
It's interesting.
00:47:51
Danny Price
Oh yeah. Yeah. And we are so, man, God has blessed us so much with some donors that have done that.
00:47:53
Shane
Yeah.
00:47:56
Danny Price
So I'm not saying it's bad.
00:47:57
Shane
Yep.
00:47:57
Danny Price
I'm just curious like where that falls in with like, yeah.
00:47:58
Shane
Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:02
Danny Price
How can you check yourself if you're someone that gives the quote unquote right amount to the church? And you give it to others, but you don't know. ah Sorry. this is This is worded weird. Sorry. So you give the right amount to church and others. So you you know you're 10%, whatever that is.
00:48:17
Danny Price
But you know that you have a closed hand mentality. What do you do? If you're like, i'm I'm tithing and I'm giving to others and I'm you know i'm being generous. I just ah i just can't i can't let go.
00:48:27
Danny Price
like ah like i'm doing I'm doing it.
00:48:28
Shane
Yeah.
00:48:29
Danny Price
It's just the wrong attitude.
00:48:31
Shane
um I would say that, you know, God's not as concerned with the percentage of a close heart as he is with ah wanting generosity from an open heart. So, you know, yeah the right amount
00:48:41
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:48:44
Shane
you know I guess the moment someone used the term the right amount with me, i would start to question yeah i would start to question the heart of it.
00:48:50
Danny Price
That's a warning sign. Yeah.
00:48:55
Shane
um So you know I would kind of say, well, hey, you know I mean, my guess is too –
00:48:56
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:49:03
Shane
if I was having a feeling like that, my guess is that is because I'm being convicted. There's, there's some level of conviction that God is calling me to do something where I'm like, but I already am doing this and I already am doing this.
00:49:09
Danny Price
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
00:49:16
Shane
I do that with my time. I, my stinginess comes with my time. Um, you know, because I do, I, I work longer weeks and I think a lot of people, um, And, you know, and then when you're in the church, you get asked to do other things and, you know, and even like, even honestly things that don't really work, but sometimes you're like, Hmm, it is kind of though.
00:49:21
Danny Price
h
00:49:40
Danny Price
I'm kind of on. and You're kind of on still.
00:49:42
Shane
Yeah, I have to be on.
00:49:42
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:44
Shane
I just don't want to go. i don't want to do it. um So I can get really stingy with my time even that way. And so, you know, when there's a conviction, i try to go, okay, God, i'm going ah I'm going to go with this with an open open heart and open mind because, you know, you know where i you know where I stand on it.
00:50:02
Shane
don't really want to do it.
00:50:03
Shane
um So I don't know if this if that helps, but.
00:50:03
Danny Price
yeah
00:50:06
Danny Price
No, that's good. Yeah, no, i would yeah I totally agree with that. you know God loves a cheerful giver. And yeah, I mean, just like we've talked about in the past, like if it's somebody it's becoming an idol to you, like this is a warning sign, and you got to get rid of that.
00:50:18
Danny Price
You got to give it up.
00:50:20
Shane
Yeah.
00:50:20
Danny Price
so
00:50:20
Shane
You know, actually what comes to mind right now when you, um, is, um, the rich young ruler, cause that was kind of the attitude of his heart. Right. I mean, he came to Jesus and like, I'm doing all this. I do this.
00:50:30
Danny Price
I have a not broken commandment.
00:50:30
Shane
I do all the right things.
00:50:31
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:50:32
Shane
I'm doing all the right things.
00:50:32
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:50:34
Shane
And yeah.
00:50:34
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:50:35
Shane
So
00:50:37
Danny Price
No, it's crazy how much money is mentioned in the Bible. I know i know you mentioned that at the beginning, but just in case you're listening, you're like, why are you guys talking so much about money?
00:50:40
Shane
yeah.
00:50:44
Danny Price
god Jesus talks about money so much. And I don't and i'm and i not i don't think Jesus was about it.
00:50:47
Shane
Yep. Yep.
00:50:49
Danny Price
Obviously, he was a poor carpenter. He was in the business of making money, but he knew how much money matters to people and how much it and but and affects our lives.
00:50:57
Shane
Yeah, he knows where our hearts are.
00:50:59
Danny Price
Yeah. Um, last question. Is it ever on wise to give? Like if you're in crazy debt, um, is there, is that stewarding? Well, is that stewarding your finance as well? Is there any reason to have like to do the Dave Ramsey gazelle intensity and like get out of debt and debt snowball and then start giving, but like get yourself right.
00:51:10
Shane
but
00:51:16
Danny Price
Is there any, what do you think? what do you think about that? Is it ever not a good time to give or should you not be giving?
00:51:22
Shane
um Well, it's funny because when you originally say said, it is it ever unwise to give? I would say if a preacher's online on on TV telling you, you got to give for, and I'm going to send you this this prayer handkerchief or whatever, you know, that of that I would say, yes, that's an unwise time to give.
00:51:32
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:51:37
Danny Price
Yeah. You have $1,000 and yeah. Yeah.
00:51:42
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:51:43
Shane
But based on your actual question.
Budgeting and Financial Freedom
00:51:46
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:51:46
Shane
um I would say it's and it's completely unwise to ever stop giving completely.
00:51:53
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:51:53
Shane
um yeah I think when you stop giving completely, you're
00:52:02
Shane
you're opening the door to end up having a close heart and towards giving um and kind of getting in that mentality of like, well, now I just, as soon as this is done, well now, as soon as this is done, well now, as soon as this is done, now you might not be able to give as generously and definitely not.
00:52:08
Danny Price
Hmm. Hmm.
00:52:21
Shane
You can't give recklessly when you're in that stage. um But I, I think it's, it's, I don't know. For me, my conviction has always been, no, even though I'm in debt, I need to give.
00:52:35
Shane
Because there have been plenty of times, there's been 10, 15 times I've been tempted to say, well, you know, if I just if i just stopped giving for six months, i that I will be able to get out of this debt.
00:52:48
Danny Price
I can catch up. Yeah, I can catch up.
00:52:50
Shane
Yep. And I'll catch up. And yeah, i i for me, that's a dangerous place.
00:52:56
Danny Price
No, I agree with that. um i Here's the thing that I would tell people is if you're in a position of... um financial difficulty and you're crazy in debt. I know some people like Dave Ramsey. Some people like other people. There's a bunch of different financial guys out there.
00:53:16
Danny Price
the the The principle that that me and Hannah have, that's really helped us out the most is just having a place for where every dollar goes. We literally use this app. that It's a Dave Ramsey app, which I'm not 100% on board with all that Dave Ramsey says.
00:53:27
Shane
Yeah.
00:53:28
Danny Price
So I'm not giving him a full endorsement or anything. He's a great guy. But the app that he created, this every dollar app has really helped us put a place for every single dollar and it's just a zero, zero budgeting. now It's just a budgeting software. It's the principle that really matters more. But when you are like, Hey, I have this much money for this. I have this much money for this. I have this much money for this.
00:53:51
Danny Price
It really just helps set boundaries for yourself. And, the boundaries end up being, you know, freeing for you. Cause you know how much you have to spend. You're not like wincing to check your bank account online. I know a lot of people listening this, this might not be an issue for you. You might be in a financial place where you're like, okay, I have someone that does my budgeting for me and this, i don't know what you're talking about, but that's fine. I'm just talking again, more to the people that are, maybe you're struggling.
00:54:14
Danny Price
Um, If there's one thing that I could say that that helps more than the debt snowball, more than all this other stuff, it would just be learning how to get a place for every every single dollar that that comes in your way and goes out. And just knowing where everything's is coming in and where everything's going. mean, it just helps so much. And then when you're talking about giving, like Shane's saying, you can still give a little amount, but it's so freeing because you know exactly how much you can give.
00:54:38
Shane
Yep. Yep.
00:54:38
Danny Price
And how, and it's like, and it's in front of you and you can see it. You're not like, Oh, well this month I'm going to give this, this month I'm going this. I just don't know this month is tight. It's like, you're coming at it from a totally different perspective. You're, you're, you're being proactive as opposed to being reactive. You're telling your money what's going to happen as opposed to your money telling you what's going to happen.
00:54:56
Danny Price
ah
00:54:56
Shane
yep
00:54:56
Danny Price
And it, it doesn't matter. I mean, you know, I'm on a ministry salary and this is, it works great for us and we're able to save. It's, it's fantastic. And I know, you know, for people that make more than me, it it'll be great for you too or less. So,
00:55:08
Danny Price
That's something that, you know, it does, that's a little bit more, just like little wisdom, little Danny wisdom at the end. And I know, you know, compared to most people that are listening, I'm you're like, okay, you don't even know what you're talking about, or, you know, this is not a problem for you.
00:55:14
Shane
And
00:55:19
Danny Price
So maybe that, you know, just disregard that point of it. But if you are at all, just like curious, you know, I would really encourage you to check that out. It's a great, it's a great software. It's been a big help for us.
Podcast Future Plans and Engagement
00:55:28
Danny Price
So.
00:55:29
Shane
and would just add this one more thing. i think ah as good as it is to get out of debt, and I think i think it's an amazing thing.
00:55:31
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:55:36
Shane
it's is it It's one of the most freeing things you can have in this life.
00:55:41
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:55:42
Shane
But yeah we have You have to be careful not to make that kind of a functional God as well.
00:55:48
Danny Price
nothing
00:55:49
Shane
Like this idea that my life will be fine once I'm out of debt. Everything's going to come. so So that's the other reason why giving during that to me is so important.
00:55:54
Danny Price
Wrong.
00:55:59
Shane
Because if you don't learn the right attitude towards money, once you get out of debt, you're just going to get right back into debt. yeah something's gonna you Either that's going to become your God staying out of debt, you know, or you're goingnna you're going to go right back into debt with something else.
00:56:17
Shane
So that to me is why it's so important to just go, no, I'm i'm learning that this is not mine.
00:56:19
Danny Price
yeah
00:56:23
Shane
It's God's and I'm a steward of it in the midst of that. So anyway, that's just something I wanted to throw in.
00:56:27
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah. totally agree with that. that's the Yeah. but Again, i mean, Jesus is so smart and he talks about this and the Bible mentions, you know, you cannot serve both God and money. If you make getting out of debt, you're God. If that's the end all be all for you, you're going to, you're going to get there and you're going to get, you're going to, you're going to feel that sense of emptiness that you're going to feel with every single other thing, except for Jesus. I mean, it's, it's, it's just time and time again, if it's getting out debt, if it's hitting a hundred thousand dollars in your bank account, if it's hitting a million dollars in your bank account, if it's getting, whatever it is, you know, however much, however much Bitcoin, what just name anything financially or non-financially that's not Jesus and you're going come up short. So just really be prepared for that big letdown because it's, it's coming for you if that's where you're setting yourself up for.
00:57:10
Danny Price
That being said, neither me or Shane are saying, don't get out of debt.
00:57:10
Shane
Yep. yep
00:57:13
Danny Price
We're just saying, don't make that, don't make that the thing. Don't make that the thing. So that's all the questions that I had. Is there anything else you wanted to add here at the end?
00:57:22
Shane
No, that's pretty much it. this Next week, Tony's going to wrap up the whole wisdom series. um So looking forward to that.
00:57:30
Danny Price
Cool. Awesome.
00:57:31
Shane
I feel like he did a great job with that on Colossians, i' kind of wrapping that book up. And so kind of curious to see how he does this this time.
00:57:38
Danny Price
Awesome.
00:57:40
Shane
And yeah.
00:57:42
Danny Price
Yeah, that's exciting. um What's, sorry, what's next?
00:57:46
Shane
So the summer is going to be a little bit all over the place. Um, but we're, um, I'm going to be doing on the weeks I'm preaching a sermon series. I think right now I'm titling it Bible ish.
00:57:59
Shane
Um, and it's, it's the idea of things that we kind of get wrong.
00:57:59
Danny Price
Oh, interesting.
00:58:04
Shane
Um, beliefs that we, we gain, we get that aren't necessarily biblical. Um, and, uh,
00:58:13
Danny Price
I like this a lot. I love this. This ist this is this already sounds interesting.
00:58:15
Shane
Yes. So it should be, it should be kind of fun um and interesting. And then um I've got, we've got some guest preachers coming as well because I, as I take some Sundays on ah during, during the summer. So, yeah.
00:58:33
Danny Price
that's that's That's super exciting. Well, awesome. I'm excited. Appreciate you guys listening. Yeah, pass this on to your friends, just like everything else. Pass this on to your friends if you're enjoying this. And again, I'll keep saying it. Just if you have questions or you're interested in...
00:58:48
Danny Price
having us go a different direction or do something different or an interesting topic.
00:58:50
Shane
Thank you.
00:58:51
Danny Price
We'd we'd love to hear from you. Appreciate you you got all you guys and all the support and we will see you guys next week. Hopefully Tuesday. We're we're shooting for Tuesday to get that recorded and get it out by Tuesday night or Wednesday. This is a little late this week. So thanks everyone. And we'll see you guys next week. Bye-bye.