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Colossians | Planted in Christ Episode 35
63 Plays1 month ago
In this Episode Danny and Shane get into it with Politics, Love, Tolerance, Christian Nationalism and other hard topics. We examine what the Bible says about Jesus and our sinful desire to twist him into our purposes.
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Transcript
Introduction & Sermon Overview
00:00:31
Danny Price
everybody, this is Danny Price. I'm here Shane. Welcome back to episode 35 of the PeopleTalk Discussions podcast. Really excited, I think, just looking at some of our viewer numbers and just the momentum, I think, of having some of these extra episodes. It's been cool just to see the podcast growing. So i'm really excited to have you guys here and joining us. We're to be going over the sermon today that Shane taught this last Sunday, which was, I'm going to guess, the 14th, 15th?
00:00:59
Danny Price
One of those days. 15th.
00:00:59
Shane
15th.
00:01:00
Danny Price
Yeah, 15th.
00:01:00
Shane
fifteen fifteen
00:01:01
Danny Price
Because, yeah, it's the day after Valentine's. In Colossians, if you didn't get a chance to listen to it, please grab the... Mountain View Fellowship podcast and listen to it. um You don't have to, but it does provide a lot of context, especially with this. We're going be talking about some random topics, and it might be easier if you have that in the back of your mind for the context.
00:01:21
Danny Price
So anyways, um Shane, how did you feel about the sermon? Is there anything that didn't make it in or things that you were wishing you would have talked about or spent more time on?
00:01:31
Shane
Not necessarily stuff that didn't make it in, but you know going through the the six counterfeit versions of Jesus, you know I mean, it's hard. Each one of those things could be their own sermon, or that whole thing could have just been a sermon, and I would have time to go into all of it. but So not necessarily nothing new that didn't make it in, but expansion on those ideas probably would have been nice.
00:01:57
Danny Price
No, yeah, that makes sense. do you Do you struggle with that? I mean, I know you guys expanded the series in general, but do you struggle with that with, like, Because I've always wondered how, when you're teaching through like a book of the Bible, how do you break it up? So it's, because some things you can kind of breeze through because there's not as much like content, but some things it's like you would want to sit on for forever.
00:02:16
Danny Price
Do you struggle with that? Of like, man, I wish I had six weeks on this specific area. And then, you know, the next chapter I could spend one week on this entire chapter. Does that make sense? do you ever feel that or...
00:02:25
Shane
Yeah, no, it it makes a lot of sense. And, you know, there are some churches that the whole church is built around the preaching. And then that way it gives the pastor... the freedom to just kind of go, Hey, this week we're only covering three verses, you know, and then next week we're going to cover these in 10.
00:02:40
Danny Price
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:02:43
Shane
And if it takes nine months to go through a book of the Bible, then the well, so be it, you know, um, we are trying to be more proactive in,
00:02:56
Shane
like getting our children, getting getting the church all working together, groups, everything working together to to kind of work in seasons around um around different series or going through different books, which kind of makes me have to say, well, okay, the book's got to fit.
00:03:15
Shane
into these, this many weeks. So, so it is a little more confining.
00:03:17
Danny Price
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
00:03:19
Shane
Um, when I, when I go through, you know, cause I spend probably about two days like breaking down how I want the series to flow and, you know, and, and it's funny cause you'll read through it, you know, cause I'll read through the book maybe five, six times while I'm doing that.
00:03:34
Shane
And I'll think, okay, this this will work, this will work. But then the more you get into a certain section and you start studying it, the more you're like, ah man, this should have been three weeks. so um So that's just the way it happens, but it's all right.
00:03:44
Danny Price
yeah No, that makes sense. Yeah. And I think we talked about this in the past, but I think it's hard you know ahead of time to know. But also, if you're going just fly by the seat of your pants, so to speak, and not plan it out, it does make it difficult, like you said, for all the other ministries that are trying to follow along.
00:04:03
Danny Price
And i think I think we do a pretty good job, honestly, bridging the gap between teaching through scripture and letting scripture speak for itself, but also, you know, so we're not just doing like nothing, not that there's anything wrong with topics, but we're not just doing topics.
00:04:17
Danny Price
We're not just doing that. We're allowing scripture to speak for itself and you're teaching through scripture, but it is still a little more structured than like you said, a church that takes, you know, two years to go through the book of whatever, um, James or something like that, you know, cause you're really getting into it, which is still cool, but I agree with you.
00:04:28
Shane
Yeah.
00:04:31
Danny Price
That makes sense. Um, So getting into the questions for this this sermon, um we had a viewer
Rooted in Christ & Discernment
00:04:39
Danny Price
send in a question. This is from Morgan. And it says, when we talk about being rooted in Christ, how do we discern whether we're genuinely submitting our plans to him versus convincing ourselves that our own and good desires are his will?
00:04:55
Shane
Yeah. um This can be tough, I think, especially when we're newer in our in our walk, um because where we've got all this noise from the world that has filled our mind for years, right? And we're now trying to discern, like, what does it what does it look like to follow Christ? So what I always say is, man, it should be when we when we are kind of seeking to follow God's will and choosing, making choices in life,
00:05:26
Shane
They should be supported by Scripture and confirmed by counsel. um And when I say supported by Scripture, I would also say, because it's easy to kind of make a verse fit, right, whatever you want.
00:05:31
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:05:40
Shane
But so it also shouldn't contradict any other scriptural principle. So, you know, if there's principles you're guiding your life by through, through the word, you know, with a choice you're making, shouldn't contradict that. Like, okay, let's just say you're choosing whether or not you, you're trying to find God's will in going on a, on a big vacation.
00:06:02
Danny Price
Right. Yeah.
00:06:03
Shane
Well, nothing wrong with going on a big vacation, but are you, are you going to stop giving so that you can save the money to go on that big vacation? Um, you know, or,
00:06:14
Shane
i You know, you're choosing to, you know, go back on your word in an area where you told somebody you do something so that you can make another you can go do something that even seems like a good idea to go do, you know.
00:06:30
Shane
um So so you mean, you know, i mean, like you kind of kind of look at the overall guiding principles. So. um You know, so it shouldn't contradict that. um And then, like I said, confirmed by counsel, meaning you actually talk to some some believers who you would say, hey, I know that they're going to guide me towards scripture um and not just tell me what I want to hear or, you know, tell me, you know, to follow my heart, you know, all that kind
00:06:56
Danny Price
Hmm.
Decision-Making & God's Will
00:06:59
Shane
of stuff.
00:06:59
Danny Price
Listen to your heart.
00:06:59
Shane
So, yeah.
00:07:02
Danny Price
No, I agree. Um, just like thinking about discernment and whether we're genuinely submitting to Jesus. I think I, this is something that I've been working through just in the past, like even a couple of weeks, cause I've had some decisions and some things I've been thinking about.
00:07:19
Danny Price
Um, One thing to think or just like you know think about too is that when you spend time with Jesus and with especially reading Scripture— This is like the process of becoming sanctified is your desires and your will starts to align more with God's will.
00:07:34
Danny Price
And so not that you can start to trust yourself more, but that you'll start to notice your your appetites and your desires changing.
00:07:42
Shane
Yeah.
00:07:42
Danny Price
So it's different than saying, well, you're now you become, you have God inside. So now you become good. I'm not, I'm not quite saying that because that's, that gets a little weird. I'm saying the more time you spend with God, the more time you spend in his word, the more aligning yourself you are with scripture,
00:07:56
Danny Price
After a while, there are certain times where you're going make a decision. And like you said, it's like, ah like for example, that vacation analogy. It's instantaneous. You go, well, no, I'm not going to stop giving because God says, you know, he loves he loves a cheerful giver. And God says, you know, that giving is important in the Bible. So you go, okay, well, it's not even in a discussion at that point anymore. So I think for a newer believer, this is this it might it might take some time. But if you're a believer that's been, you know,
00:08:21
Danny Price
reading the reading the word for a while, you can start to look at some of your desires and and say, wow, man, back when I was 16, if I was up against the same decision, I would have had a totally different thought process. but Because of God's sanctifying power in my life, I can look at this decision and go, oh, you know what? like I don't even want the same things anymore. I want i want this. And again, you just have to cross-check it with scripture and with what God but god says. I think that's your really your your only your plumb line to use like a construction analogy. Like that's, that's your only way of knowing, I guess.
00:08:52
Danny Price
I think what what gets hard is when you're choosing, at least for me, when you're choosing between two good things or two, not as bad options where you're like, I have to choose between something that sucks and something that sucks, which sucks a little less. You know, I I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm confused. That's where I think it becomes hard because making decision like that,
00:09:12
Danny Price
which most of our decisions are incredibly complex that we're having to make. I think that's where this becomes, it becomes tricky and you're trying to figure out what's what's God's will, what's not God's will. And you have to remember, and i mean, maybe you have a different perspective, but correct me on this, just based off what you think.
00:09:22
Shane
Yeah.
00:09:28
Danny Price
I don't know, and I'm not convinced that there is a there's always a God's will option. And if you miss it, then you're outside of God's will.
00:09:37
Shane
Mm-hmm.
00:09:39
Danny Price
So for example, I'm choosing between this job and this job. And it's not like any, like clearly one is one is better than the other um in terms of, you know, glorifying God or whatever.
00:09:49
Danny Price
One of them makes money, maybe a little bit more, but I have to move. One of them makes less money, but I get to stay in my hometown, whatever it is. And you try to decide. And if you're thinking, oh my gosh, am I in God's will if I do this or or if I don't do this? Or if I marry this person or if I don't marry this person, like to use another analogy, I think a lot of times we get so tripped up that if it's like a the butterfly effect, like if I miss this, then I'm not in God's will. And then the rest of my life is screwed up because I missed, I messed up on this one decision.
00:10:14
Danny Price
I don't see anything in scripture that says that. I think a lot of times you grow where you're planted. And sometimes, you know, you there's different decisions that are better or worse, but it's not necessarily like you're missing God's will or you're in God's will with every decision.
00:10:26
Danny Price
Am am I wrong there to,
00:10:26
Shane
No, Danny. No, if God has one person for you to marry, and if you don't marry that person, you will be outside of his will for the rest of your life. Um, I'm just, that was, that was sarcasm, everybody.
00:10:36
Danny Price
ah
00:10:38
Shane
Um, hopefully nobody shut it off right after that.
00:10:40
Danny Price
Excuse me.
00:10:42
Shane
Um, No, I 100% agree with that. You know, go back to Romans 12, 1 and 2. You know, Paul says, in view of God's mercies, present your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual act of worship.
00:10:57
Shane
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, his good and acceptable and perfect will. So here here's what...
00:11:11
Shane
You know, that what the verse is saying is it is more about your attitude of your heart than it is about the choice you make. So are you seeking to submit to what God wants? um You know, I mean, no, I mean, seriously, I mean, there are people a lot of people out there that believe that there's only one person destined for you to that you should be able to marry or that you're going be happy with if you marry your soulmate.
00:11:33
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:11:35
Shane
That is so unbiblical. There's nothing in the Bible. that supports that. um Same with your job, right? Same with, um do you want to homeschool your kids or put them in public school? That all those choices are choices you you have to discern um But what you want to do is don't discern what's going to be easier.
00:11:56
Shane
Don't discern what's going to not cause a conflict right now. No, it's not those things. It's, is this the best way going to be the best way for me to honor and serve God? And then you just, and you might be wrong a little bit.
00:12:06
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:12:09
Shane
And that, that doesn't, but, and it's also okay to course correct. Right. I mean, now obviously with marriage and with big, decision you know, you don't course correct by divorce or,
00:12:15
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:20
Shane
um but you But you certainly can look and go, hey, you know, I thought it meant this to love this person, but they they need to be loved in a theyre totally different way. And so I need to course correct how I do that.
00:12:30
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:12:30
Shane
You know, um putting your what what you choose for your kids. you know, if you make a decision that, hey, we're going to homeschool our kids and three years in it is it just does not fit for your family.
00:12:44
Shane
You're not a horrible person.
00:12:46
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:12:46
Shane
by choosing to go to public school. Now, if you're choosing it just because it's easier, well, then you might want to really look at that, you know, but um because honestly, it wouldn't be. If you want to raise your christian your kids as Christians, right, in the Lord, if you really want to raise them as a disciple and to follow Christ, you got to know, well, every day I'm to be battling other messages that they're're they're getting.
00:13:10
Shane
So it's going to easier, but it still might be something that works better for your family.
00:13:12
Danny Price
yeah
00:13:15
Shane
So Yeah, so yeah, 100% agree with you. And I'm glad you hit on that because I didn't want, yeah, I wouldn't want anyone walking away from that going, well, just, you know, I figured out.
00:13:25
Shane
And then there's one thing that God wants me to do. It really is comes down to am I seeking to be who God calls me to be?
00:13:29
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:13:32
Shane
am I offering myself as a sacrifice in the way I live my life?
00:13:39
Danny Price
Oh, that's really good. Awesome. um Next question. So just a little background for people listening. If you didn't listen to the sermon, he talked about different Jesuses and how oftentimes we'll construct our own version of Jesus that we like.
00:13:52
Danny Price
And he ended up, one of the Jesuses that he was using as an example was political Jesus. So that's where this question comes from, just for a little background. So let's get political on this. What do you see as a Christian?
00:14:01
Shane
Yeah, my favorite topic.
00:14:02
Danny Price
Oh, I know, so fun. What do you see as a Christian's role in politics?
Christianity & Politics
00:14:08
Danny Price
Should we be and you know in government? Should we not be in government? Should we... um Like, you know, how should we talk about it? Should we be outspoken about our political affiliations or our non-political affiliations? Like, what what is the relationship a good Christian believer should have with politics, in your opinion?
00:14:26
Shane
Our number one thing should be, we should be Facebook warriors.
00:14:29
Danny Price
Yes.
00:14:30
Shane
i Sorry.
00:14:31
Danny Price
One thousand percent.
00:14:31
Shane
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm in a sarcastic mood this morning.
00:14:32
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:14:34
Shane
um
00:14:34
Danny Price
ah
00:14:36
Shane
So, and well, and Danny knows, and I think any of the, anyone listening knows, I mean, I hate this topic. I am not a political person. If anything, I've kind of been dragged kicking and screaming a little bit into um kind of believing that getting to a point where I'm like, Hey,
00:14:43
Danny Price
No, yeah. Yeah.
00:14:53
Shane
politics are really starting to try to um legislate topics that I believe are moral and faith based. So I i kind of like, yeah, we need to be more involved than I used to even feel. So this is not my topic.
00:15:11
Shane
um But yeah.
00:15:12
Danny Price
And I can, and and I can attest really quick. I can attest to that. Like you'll talk about politics in like family chats, like discussions and stuff, like when we're at the house, but you, you, you, you hate it.
00:15:15
Shane
Yeah.
00:15:22
Danny Price
And like, after a while you're like guys, I'm done. Like, let's, let's like, this isn't just Shane, just saying this to like put on a face. Like this is really how he is.
00:15:28
Shane
Yeah.
00:15:29
Danny Price
He, he doesn't like talking about this stuff
00:15:30
Shane
yeah So, um and that said, I'm so glad we're going here. um so um I think here's what I would say. i think we we need to be informed.
00:15:41
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:15:41
Shane
But we also need to seek where, like really think about where are we getting our information? You know, we have to be discerning enough to know that if our main source of information is Fox News or CNN or NBC, we we're being manipulated and and we have to recognize that.
00:15:46
Danny Price
Yes. Yes.
00:15:58
Shane
um So, you know, and in fact, I would say we have to understand that's not news, that's commentary. Um, you know, same with like the daily wire.
00:16:05
Danny Price
m
00:16:07
Shane
They're, they're really, they're showing you things and commenting on it that with their, their view, um, more than anything else.
00:16:14
Danny Price
yes
00:16:17
Shane
but So if that's all you're getting, you you just have to get like, I'm only hearing a side of this. I'm only seeing a side of this. Um, you know, and on top of that,
00:16:29
Shane
if say you watch both, say you watch Fox and and NBC, or is NBC the the other big one m MSNBC?
00:16:37
Danny Price
um MSNBC, yeah.
00:16:38
Shane
Yeah, MSNBC.
00:16:39
Danny Price
but NBC is big too. Yeah, they're all big, yeah.
00:16:40
Shane
Yeah. So So you just watch those two. You're, you're getting like the extreme, like two views. They're not even giving you the middle night by watching both.
00:16:52
Shane
You're not going to get the middle, you know?
00:16:54
Danny Price
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:55
Shane
Um, so, um, anyway, and then if you're watching Facebook and YouTube and Instagram, it's even worse because algorithms, it knows you enough to know I'm only going to show you this stuff that catches you and makes you riles you up.
00:17:02
Danny Price
Oh my goodness, yeah.
00:17:09
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:17:09
Shane
So, um,
00:17:10
Danny Price
Really quick on that, I hope people really hear me when I say this, especially if you're, I gotta be careful, um I love you. If you're older, if you're a senior citizen, I'm talking to you specifically here,
00:17:22
Danny Price
There are algorithms that are specifically designed to outrage you. the you You might think, oh, the algorithm, it knows what I like, and then and then it's showing me this stuff just because like it you know it knows what I like. I promise you this. there is You can look into this deeper if you're curious.
00:17:39
Danny Price
The algorithm will show you things in order to make you mad because it wants you to interact with whatever it is more. And I promise you this. You are going to see stuff all the time that's not necessarily 100% accurate, but it's been...
00:17:52
Danny Price
twisted in such a way or it's being shown to you in such a way purposefully to make you mad it's not showing you stuff that just that you like it will show you stuff that you hate that you're upset about and you're like can you believe this i promise you it's telling you it's showing you things with that in mind it's trying to piss you off sorry for the language oh geez
00:18:09
Shane
Yeah. Yep. yeah That's okay. I said from the pulpit on third service. Yeah, I had to apologize. i i can't remember. I was talking about the tolerant juice. Anyway. um
00:18:20
Danny Price
okay hu
00:18:22
Shane
so So, yeah. So I think we all have to get that. Now, honestly, I was going ask you, because I'm not that interested in this, I don't know. Like, do you have a couple what you would say are really good sources that, hey, this is where people should try to get news?
00:18:35
Danny Price
Oh. Oh, good grief. So no, not really. So here's my, here's my, here's where I sit, at least with this. I am incredibly skeptical of anyone that talks about politics because of what you just said. You talked about like the subversive motives and stuff. So I'll listen to some of the guys in the Daily Wire, but then I'll all listen to some liberal podcasts and I'll also see stuff on Facebook. And I have all kinds of friends that post all kinds of things. A ton, ton of left-leaning material, ton of right-leaning material.
00:19:04
Danny Price
I've kind of come to the conclusion That if I really want to know about something, like a specific issue, I really need to dig into it on my own and I'll get as much resources as I can on something. But the daily or weekly cycle of news that comes through my feed or comes through podcasts is just so...
00:19:24
Danny Price
It's so unreliable in terms of what's really happening. And I know that sounds, people might not like that because i I have people that I listen to that I'm like, I generally agree with what most of what they say, but then they'll say certain things or they'll have certain views. And I'm like, that's not a Christian viewpoint. And even people that ah do claim to be Christian, they'll say things. I'm like, that's, oh man, that that is, that is, I don't see the Bible lining up with that.
00:19:45
Danny Price
So because of that, I'll take what they say at face value and I'll look at that and go, okay, that's interesting. I don't know if I 100% agree with you. And then I'll dig into on my own, if it's something that I really cared to know more about. And then this might be another unpopular opinion. I have so many issues. Like, for example, right now with ICE, like I know that's a really hot button topic. I honestly have no idea where I stand or where I sit on that in certain capacities. I know in general how I feel about immigration and certain things like that. But with specifically what happened in Minneapolis and other places, I i feel like I'm just not informed enough to know and I haven't dug into it.
00:20:16
Danny Price
And I'm okay with that. And I think that's where some Christians need to be is, you know what, I need to find out more about this. I don't know where I know what people are telling me how I should feel on both sides of the argument. I don't know exactly where I sit, and I might need to dig into it more. And I think that's okay.
00:20:29
Danny Price
So that's that's kind of where my political, yeah, that's where that's kind of where I end up. I'm not saying we should always be right on the fence. I do want to be clear about that. There are some things that I have i take a hardline stance on.
00:20:37
Shane
yeah yeah yeah
00:20:39
Danny Price
I just know there's some things i don't I'm not informed enough, and I know what people are trying to get me to be outraged or talk about or use the same talking points that everyone else does. And I'm like, at I got to be careful.
00:20:48
Shane
Especially when you're talking about specific instances like that. Like with ice, there's been two or three like very specific instances where I'm like, man, there's just so many angles you'd have to look from.
00:20:52
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:20:58
Shane
There's so many, so much background to the incident, you know, and and it's okay to say, hey, that incident even was wrong.
00:21:01
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:21:05
Shane
Like that shouldn't have happened, but there's all these variables bulls that led up to that, you know? So anyway, there's, there's things that it's just tough.
00:21:10
Danny Price
Yeah, no, totally.
00:21:14
Danny Price
So no, I guess to and answer your question, I don't have one person
00:21:14
Shane
forgotten but But I think another thing that Christians need to get in our culture today is literally up until 10 years ago, you didn't he need to have an opinion on this. it there was There was, you know, maybe half the stuff you wouldn't you wouldn't really have heard that much about.
00:21:32
Shane
Definitely 30 years ago, you wouldn't have. you You might have heard one little thing on it, and the it was up to you to form of an opinion later, you know, but but even then, you you were fine to just go, why don't they have an opinion?
00:21:34
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:21:44
Shane
Because there's no way for me to really know, but that sucks that it happened.
00:21:46
Danny Price
Right. Right.
00:21:48
Shane
You know, and um yeah, so we just think we have to have an opinion on everything nowadays.
00:21:48
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:54
Shane
um And most of our opinions really aren't that valuable. So anyway.
00:21:58
Danny Price
ah
00:21:59
Shane
um
00:22:00
Danny Price
um So so what should we, I mean, obviously i would I would say you'd think we would vote.
00:22:02
Shane
So, like well, yeah, so that's okay.
00:22:05
Danny Price
Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. I was going say, get more into this.
00:22:07
Shane
That's what I was going to say. Let me jump back in. um So I would say,
00:22:08
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:22:12
Shane
um here's here's one thing I would say. I would say that as Christians, we should be in scripture more than we're in the news.
00:22:23
Shane
Like if if you want to have a real opinion on the things that are going on and you want it to be a biblically informed opinion, well, then you better be in scripture more than you're in those things.
00:22:23
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:22:34
Shane
So, you know, I would challenge Christians that watching two hours of news a day, but tell me that they can't find 15 minutes to read the Bible.
00:22:42
Danny Price
Yeah. Yes.
00:22:43
Shane
And I would say if you're only reading your Bible for 15 minutes, then just get some quick blurbs on the news and then pray about those things. don't just Don't just get it all.
00:22:51
Danny Price
yeah
00:22:52
Shane
But then as far as getting political, I would say, yes, we should vote. um We should be willing to share our perspective and conversations in a loving way.
00:23:03
Danny Price
yes
00:23:04
Shane
Not in a, not in a, you know, these big blanket statements and, you know, everything so-and-so does is horrible and everything this organization is about is, is wrong.
00:23:14
Shane
And, you know, um, we should kind of go into it. Um, assuming that, that we don't know the whole picture and we don't know all motives.
00:23:24
Shane
Um, you know, I mean, people love to decide what people's motives are and, uh, that's not fair.
00:23:29
Danny Price
yeah yeah.
00:23:32
Shane
um I think we should be talking with our kids about it um and giving them, you know, and giving them informed data and things and and ways that they can form opinions. But I also don't think we should berate our kids. If you've got like, you know, 14 years and, you know, if you've got kids between like 14 28 years,
00:23:54
Shane
at home and you love you have a lot of big political ideas, probably one of the worst things you can be doing is letting them hear you just bash on the other side politically, because I think they're hearing that, you know, they they need to hear that kind of an in love response to things. They need to hear our faith and action when it comes to those things.
00:24:13
Shane
So anyway, um and then finally, I would say stay off of social media, especially commenting. Don't post this stuff. So often, i have a lot of friends that are in their 60s, you know, and and they just post and post and post. And so sometimes I'll even do the work of taking that thing and put it in chat gbt and saying hey give me give me the background on this or whatever and like half the stuff isn't even real like it didn't even happen or at least in any way and in the other half i'm like okay well that you know there's more to this than than what this blurb says you know and and and it just alienates i i really do believe that
00:24:52
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:24:54
Danny Price
No, I totally agree. um I'm going to quote someone else. So on the Live Free podcast, they talked about politics not that long ago. That's Josh Howerton. I think I mentioned that in my recommended podcast list.
00:25:06
Danny Price
I like Josh. I think some of this stuff, I don't agree 100% on everything with him, but I like how he looks at cultural issues. And one of the things he said about politics that I thought was cool was,
00:25:12
Shane
Yeah.
00:25:15
Danny Price
I mean, he so he was talking about you know right and left and all this stuff. And he did say, and I would agree, that a lot of the values that I hold as a Christian, and the morals that I hold as a Christian, align a lot of the times with the conservative side of the political aisle. And the left side of the aisle, there are certain things that they're pushing the boundaries a little bit more on what's acceptable morally and all that. But what he said, and I thought was a really good clarification, was I am a Christian conservative. Right.
00:25:42
Danny Price
I am not just a conservative that is a Christian. And I think the distinction is, what where do you align with first? Are you just a conservative? Are you a Republican that also happens to be Christian? But in your terms in terms of your ideology, Republicanism or conservatism, or even if let's say you're you're a liberal, Democrat, whatever, I'm a Democrat and then I'm a Christian.
00:25:54
Shane
That's a great point.
00:26:02
Danny Price
Or are you a Christian first and then your political affiliation comes later? And I think a lot of people, they want to claim that they are Christian first, but then if you look at what they align with, they are 100% down the party line on whatever issue. And whatever issue it is, whatever the Republican side of the aisle says, they're like, I agree with that. That's what I agree with. And then they say, I'm a but um i'm also a Christian. And i I'm like, man, you gotta be careful. Some of these, there's no party.
00:26:28
Danny Price
And if there was, it'd be the perfect party, but there's no party that 100% aligns with the Bible. You're not gonna find that. You're gonna find parties that maybe align a little bit more with the Bible or have more biblical morals, I would say.
00:26:39
Danny Price
But it's not 100%. And you're kidding yourself if you're telling yourself it is 100%. I promise you, just dig into scripture and look at some of these things.
00:26:44
Shane
Yep.
00:26:46
Danny Price
And I would help you with that. Or I would i would be willing to talk with you about that. i know Shane would too, even though he hates political stuff. But you want to be a Christian first in all your values. And then and then whatever, a conservative after that, I guess, would be a better the best way to say that.
00:26:59
Shane
Yep.
00:27:00
Danny Price
So that was, again, that wasn't my words.
00:27:00
Shane
yeah That's a great way.
00:27:02
Danny Price
But that was someone someone else's words. And I liked that. I stole that.
00:27:04
Shane
Yeah, no, that's a great way of seeing it.
00:27:05
Danny Price
No. Um, we can go to the next question. Um, so that you brought up this idea the same
00:27:10
Shane
Yeah, it kind of fits
Christian Nationalism & Media Portrayal
00:27:12
Danny Price
thing.
00:27:12
Shane
right in with that.
00:27:12
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:27:12
Shane
Yeah.
00:27:12
Danny Price
Christian nationalism. It's a big, it's such a hot, hot button word right now. What do you think that is?
00:27:17
Shane
Yep.
00:27:18
Danny Price
Should we align with that? Should we be careful of that? What, what, what's the, what's the thought process there?
00:27:23
Shane
Well, I probably shouldn't even brought that up in the sermon. So I, yeah.
00:27:27
Danny Price
It's a talk. It's the, yeah, you brought it up. i was like, oo he's going there. Yeah.
00:27:30
Shane
yeah So, because I do think it there are people that automatically shut off when they hear that.
00:27:37
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:27:38
Shane
um But what I was trying to get across is if we just look at what those two terms mean, and And if the media is going to try to define everything that those two terms mean as Christian nationalists, well, then I'm a Christian nationalist because I am a Christian first and foremost.
00:27:51
Danny Price
and yeah
00:27:56
Shane
And I i want to honor Christ. That's what I want to do above everything else. But I'm also, I love my nation and I want my nation to have Christlike values. um Now,
00:28:07
Shane
Does that mean they, what, so there is an extreme term called Christian nationalism that, that basically would be, and you could say, you know, um Islamic nationalist, you know, you could say Jewish nationalist, all, all that, where, know,
00:28:20
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah. yeah
00:28:24
Shane
It's the idea what they're saying when what the extreme of that term means that you want your nation to only hold to that religion as your as the so the the religion of the nation.
00:28:40
Shane
And no one is allowed to practice anything other than. Or if they do, they don't have the same rights. They don't have the same, you know, they're discriminated against.
00:28:50
Shane
So that's the extreme of that word.
00:28:51
Danny Price
Right.
00:28:53
Shane
What I was trying to say is, based on what the media is saying, most Christians are Christian nationalists. And the media is is misusing the term for anything that somebody wants to promote Christian values in.
00:29:10
Shane
And so that's what I was trying to get across.
00:29:10
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:29:12
Shane
um I don't know if you have more.
00:29:13
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:29:13
Shane
i have a lot more on that if we can get it, but i don't know if you want to comment on that at all.
00:29:17
Danny Price
Yeah, I'm nervous about that word personally, just because in my you know my experience, when I hear people talk about that, they are on the far right, like you said, like the like the the woke right, I guess would be another term that to use.
00:29:27
Shane
Yeah.
00:29:29
Danny Price
And they would say, and a lot you know you see a lot of political commentators um that are, they have to have some really fringe, terrible beliefs. Like you have like Nick Fuentes and like, even like Candace Owens, who's a little bit off on some of her her her things, but they'll say all the time, things like Christ is King, or I'm a Christian nationalist and they try to bring Jesus into it.
00:29:47
Danny Price
But again, you have to remind yourself, a lot of these people, what they're doing is they're trying to align what they think Christian values are. And if you start digging into their beliefs, you're like, that's not, you don't align with Christian values.
00:29:58
Danny Price
You're not, you're just saying those things.
00:29:58
Shane
Yeah, I would say what I would challenge is that the Christian, yeah, what I would challenge is like with Nick Fuentes, you know i I only listened to three of his podcasts and I was like, okay, if this guy's in any way claiming to be Christian, I i would challenge that.
00:30:00
Danny Price
It's it's a hot, it's a hot button option. Yeah.
00:30:12
Shane
So, you know, he's ah a nationalist, but not, but so anyway.
00:30:12
Danny Price
yeah and So you'll hear...
00:30:17
Danny Price
Yeah, so you'll hear like Christian nationalists, and it that's why I'm nervous about that word, because a lot of these people will align be like, yeah, I'm a Christian nationalist. And then they say the the the craziest, most fringe just things, which sadly sometimes are not becoming as fringe anymore.
00:30:26
Shane
Yeah.
00:30:31
Danny Price
And I think my thought is, if youre ah if your thought of Christian nationalism is, I'm a Christian, and I want that to impact on how I vote and how I engage with politics, and I want to be involved my government, and I would love to see my nation um have better ideals and not like legislate things that I find morally apprehensible. I think that's, I think that's great.
00:30:51
Danny Price
ah Where it becomes a problem, I think is when you, it's like what Shane was saying. And when you say there is no place for the first amendment, like for example, like you can't say what you believe. You can only believe this.
00:31:02
Danny Price
um I think that comes into more of like a theocracy or like a theonomy where you're like, everybody's Christian.
00:31:05
Shane
Yes, yes, theocracy. yep
00:31:07
Danny Price
And there's nothing in the gospel in the, gospel or in the like the bible that i can see where it says baptizing all nations with the father son the holy spirit but i don't i don't see anywhere where it says force people at gunpoint or at whatever to become a christian and if they're not execute them or drive them out of your country i i don't see that you see that a little bit with israel and how they were god's people set apart but once we're in the new covenant i and again if someone really wants to come at me with the scripture and and and try to like convince me i'm willing to listen to you but i just don't see anywhere in scripture where god says force people to become believers force them into my kingdom and if they don't then you need to execute them or drive them out of your country or have nothing to do with them in that sense i i don't see that
00:31:20
Shane
Now,
00:31:49
Shane
Yeah. No. anna And that's what I was trying to get across is that, look, that's the extreme That is what the term actually, if you were going to say, because again, if you were to say Islamic nationalist, that's what that means.
00:32:01
Danny Price
yeah right
00:32:02
Shane
that That's what that means. But the media is using Christian, the word Christian nationalist for for people who actually just want to have Christian influence in culture and politics and and vote court and and have laws that support their convictions.
00:32:09
Danny Price
Yes. Yeah.
00:32:20
Shane
That is different than saying Everyone else is second class. Everyone else should be forced out or to, to um bow to this.
00:32:29
Danny Price
yeah
00:32:30
Shane
um But so what, that's what I was trying to get across. So I want to make sure everyone gets that. But when I said that I am a Christian nationalist, I'm not by the real term.
00:32:40
Danny Price
Yes.
00:32:41
Shane
I am by the way.
00:32:41
Danny Price
And you did define it. Yeah.
00:32:43
Shane
Yeah, I am by the way the media is defining it. yeah, but you know So I think that's really important to hear.
00:32:48
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:32:50
Shane
but But what I do want to make sure people get is the media is also trying to get across that we should be a nation where all the religions can coexist.
00:33:02
Shane
And I'm just going to tell you right now, it can't. um we Sure, can we have Muslims live here?
00:33:06
Danny Price
Yeah. Hmm.
00:33:09
Shane
Absolutely, if they're willing to to live here under Christian morals. But if they but Islam is a religion. i don't care what anyone wants to say.
00:33:20
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:21
Shane
Look, look find me one country where Islam...
00:33:21
Danny Price
o
00:33:26
Shane
islam coexist with another faith and and is okay with it they they're not they it just is not the case and so we do it you know we do have to be careful as as that's becoming a prominent thing in our culture um the the two faiths do not they cannot coexist in a like hey we're all gonna just have the same values
00:33:35
Danny Price
yeah
00:33:51
Danny Price
If you don't take it seriously, you can. Like if you're if you're a Muslim and you're like, i'm not but I'm not like a, like I don't believe in Sharia law or whatever. Yeah, maybe. But again, you have to realize that most of these people that are really pushing for Muslim, Muslim nationalism, you know, Islam nationalism or whatever, are trying to bring those values.
00:34:05
Danny Price
A lot of times it it's not the people that are just like lukewarm that are like, hey, you know what? Yeah, live and let live. It's fine. Because there are those people that exist that would call themselves, but it it'd be more like a nominal Muslim as opposed to like,
00:34:16
Shane
Yeah, but what they yeah what they have to – what I want people to
America & Religious Identity
00:34:20
Shane
get, though, is those are nominal Muslims. They're not Muslims who actually follow the Koran.
00:34:27
Shane
Where you can have Christians – shoot, here you know how I know this? you know Here's my biggest support of this. Bill Maher is probably one of the most – Liberal politically wise guys you'll you'll find, but he's not a liberal in that, in that he just accepts everything.
00:34:40
Danny Price
Sure. Sure.
00:34:45
Shane
So he will say, and he's anti-Christian.
00:34:46
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:34:49
Shane
He's an atheist.
00:34:50
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:34:50
Shane
But he himself will say, you can have a country where people hold to Christian values, like they live by those values, and they live by the Bible, and that country will be will be fine working with with other people.
00:35:08
Shane
But if you're talking about Muslims who live by the Koran, who literally, truly live by the Koran, it doesn't work.
00:35:16
Danny Price
No, yeah.
00:35:16
Shane
So because the crayon actually pushes this so yeah.
00:35:20
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:35:21
Shane
So anyway, I mean, yeah.
00:35:21
Danny Price
we're all we're all We're all infidels. Yeah, no, but that's like that's that's valid. Yeah, not every not every worldview or every viewpoint is going to have the same level of... harmony with other with other other beliefs. And that's that's just obvious. And if you're confused about that, again, a lot of this stuff is charged. So the second we're saying some of these words, you're if you're listening, you're probably like, oh, i know I know exactly how I feel about this and you can't change my mind. I get that. And I understand.
00:35:45
Danny Price
um we're just you know we're We're speaking about this stuff as just as honestly as we can. So if you're confused or you're like, what is that?
00:35:49
Shane
Yeah.
00:35:51
Danny Price
We'd love to talk to you about it just in case you're curious. um But yeah, I guess that's where we end up on that Christian nationalist idea is that Under the proper context, I think the ideals that you're talking about of what the media might be representing is Christians are making political choices based off of their religion, and you would say, you're a Christian nationalist.
00:36:12
Danny Price
And I would say, yeah, but everybody makes decisions and votes based off of their values and their beliefs.
00:36:16
Shane
Yeah.
00:36:18
Danny Price
Yeah. Mine lines up with the Bible. And that's and then that's where I vote.
00:36:22
Shane
Yep.
00:36:23
Danny Price
and that's how And that's how I talk about politics. So that's a good definition.
00:36:25
Shane
Well,
00:36:26
Danny Price
It's just the the crux of that would be a lot of definitions that people use for Christian nationalism or people who identify with that are very dangerous. And it can be ah it can be a weird term because of that, I guess.
00:36:38
Danny Price
That's where I would...
00:36:38
Shane
yeah. Well, and and real quick, I just, I want to say, you know, be the another big thing in the media right now is the push that we've never been a Christian nation. Um, And they want to say, well, all the founding fathers, they were actually deists.
00:36:52
Shane
No, they they so they even might have, a lot of them might have believed a little bit more in deistic views, but they based the values in which they built the Constitution still on the Bible.
00:36:59
Danny Price
Sure.
00:37:05
Shane
and And not only that, but there were like John Witherspoon, Samuel Adams, Patrick Henry, um
00:37:05
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:37:12
Shane
those were all like serious, strong Christians. One or two of them were were actual pastors.
00:37:15
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:37:18
Shane
So, um you know, so this idea that, well, there was they were all just deists and then really, there were it was just based on kind of an overall value.
00:37:18
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:37:24
Danny Price
That's not true.
00:37:26
Shane
No, it, it, It was based on the Bible. And so we have always been a nation based on Christianity.
00:37:30
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:37:35
Shane
We are not a Christian. i would i would kind of say, yeah, we're probably not in the last 150 years been a Christian nation, but we we are in you know in that no one else was allowed or whatever, but we but our rules, our laws, our everything was based on that those values.
00:37:42
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:37:52
Shane
Okay.
00:37:52
Danny Price
Yeah, that's that's a great point. One side topic, I guess, with Christian nationalism and just something that i would just reference people. If you've never been to another country that and worshipped with believers in another country, man, what a cool experience. like i've been I've been able to go to Honduras. My parents were missionaries in Mexico, and I lived there for five years.
00:38:13
Danny Price
It's a really cool experience to worship Jesus in another cultural setting. And a lot of people, unfortunately, have this idea that got that America, the United States, is God's chosen nation, and we are somehow...
00:38:27
Danny Price
We are somehow like the new representation of Israel or like God's chosen people. and i got to tell you guys, if that's your view, that is not biblical. That is, there are Christians. There is the the church is worldwide.
00:38:39
Danny Price
Now, yes, it does. The United States give us unique opportunities because of our religious freedom. Yes. Yes. All that. But what's interesting is you see all these nations, like right now Iran is going through this and China is going through this.
00:38:51
Danny Price
The places that where where Christianity is most persecuted is where the church is just exploding because that's how the gospel works.
00:38:55
Shane
Yep.
00:38:56
Danny Price
The gospel is so powerful when it's being suppressed by Christians. the political party. It's, it's crazy how that works. And I could show you all these situations in history, you know, with Rome and all these different times where this, where that happens, the gospel is so powerful and speaks to the, it's, it's for all people. It's for the world. So just be careful when you start talking about like, we're not, we have not as the United States institutionalized Christianity. Christianity is not a unique American thing. It's not a unique United States thing. Yes. We have um a lot of morals that are based off of, yeah, like, ah like Shane said, our constitution. and we have a lot of Christian values that are institutionalized, but,
00:39:31
Danny Price
We are not, quote unquote, more Christian because we're in the United States than someone who is in Somalia or someone who is in Ethiopia or someone who is in Iran that is that is a Christian, you know, gospel-believing, you know, Bible-believing Christian.
00:39:43
Danny Price
So just be careful. When you say some of this stuff, a lot of times that's that's how it kind of comes off is like somehow we're this chosen group and it's like, hu we're we're we're part we're part of the church just like everybody else is.
00:39:53
Danny Price
Do you have any comments about that?
00:39:54
Shane
Yep.
00:39:54
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:39:55
Shane
No, that's just, that's a good word that, you know, um we do, we get caught up and we forget. And, you know, and honestly could be argued that, yeah, the God definitely has had his favor on the United States, but that quite frankly, we probably didn't use that favor the way we we should have.
00:40:12
Shane
And you you can see um a lot of God moving and in other countries more than you do here now.
00:40:15
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:40:20
Danny Price
Yeah, no, no, it's interesting.
00:40:20
Shane
Yeah.
00:40:22
Danny Price
Um, I know I'm ruffling feathers by saying some of this stuff. So if you're, if you're again, any of the stuff that we're talking about, if you're, if you don't agree, that's totally fine. You do not have to sit with me the same way in politics to be a Christian or to have fellowship with me.
00:40:33
Danny Price
I hope you guys know that. So if you see me at church and you're like, I heard what he said, I don't agree. That's fine. I still love you. And I'd still love to hang out with you.
00:40:40
Shane
Last week we were tooting horns, this week we're ruffling feathers.
00:40:41
Danny Price
Um,
00:40:43
Danny Price
Yeah, we're ruffling feathers. um So you went through all those versions of Jesus. We spent a ton of time on political Jesus because it's a hot hot topic. um what Who is Jesus? can you I put that down as a question.
00:40:56
Danny Price
Biblically speaking, let's let's let's talk about actually who Jesus is because, because again, you know Jesus is not a tool for us to use as our as our political against our political opponents.
00:40:57
Shane
feel like we've talked about that.
00:41:00
Shane
Yeah.
00:41:06
Shane
Yeah.
00:41:07
Danny Price
Who is Jesus? And again, if you didn't hear, go ahead.
00:41:09
Shane
Well, let me give you a couple. want me give you a couple?
00:41:11
Danny Price
was going to say
00:41:11
Shane
of
00:41:12
Danny Price
go through the versions of Jesus that you went through in the sermon and then go through...
00:41:15
Shane
Okay, so we we talked about um the prosperity Jesus, the political Jesus, the therapy Jesus, tolerance Jesus, deconstructed Jesus, and universal Jesus. So these ideas that Jesus, people try to make Jesus fit their ideology differently.
00:41:35
Shane
And to do that, they have to make Jesus lesser than he we is. It's really, anytime we we worship one of these lesser forms of Jesus, we're actually worshiping ourself.
00:41:47
Shane
We're actually trying to get Jesus to fit what we want instead of us submitting to who he is.
00:41:51
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:54
Shane
So... if we're going to submit to who he is then then he's got to be big, right? I mean, we i kept I tried to use the word supreme a few times. Like, he's he's supreme.
00:42:05
Shane
um
00:42:05
Danny Price
yeah
00:42:07
Shane
You know, we know from John 1 that he is eternal. he He is with God in the beginning. He's the creator of all things. um we've We looked at just a few weeks ago in Colossians that he's the exact image of the invisible God. he's ah the Colossians talks about him being in chapter 1, verse 15 to 17, that he's...
00:42:29
Shane
Above all things, everything was created through him. He's he's the first preexistent and sovereign above all everything.
00:42:33
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:42:37
Shane
um I like what Hebrews 1, 3 says. It says, he is the radiance of the glory of God, the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.
00:42:49
Shane
I mean, that, to me, like in one sentence to say, look, I mean, he is the glory of God.
00:42:50
Danny Price
Ooh, that's so powerful.
00:42:56
Shane
And he holds the universe by his word. I mean, that's, you know, i don't know that that's about as strong a statement amen as you you can get on someone.
00:43:00
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:43:04
Danny Price
That's authoritative. Yeah. Hmm.
00:43:07
Shane
So that's who Jesus is. and then also, what is he, you know, what has he done for us? You know, we, Romans five talks about how we're justified by faith, um that we can have peace through God because peace with God, because of what he did on the cross.
00:43:24
Shane
Um, Second cor Corinthians talks about that we are reconciled through Christ, that it's, um, that all of our sin is forgiven because of him. Um,
00:43:35
Shane
You know, Ephesians 2 talks about how we were far off from God, but because of what Christ has done, we had brought we are brought near through his blood.
00:43:43
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:43:44
Shane
um You know, and in John 15 kind of hits what we've been talking about, like about being rooted in him and knowing his will, is that John 15 verse 4 and 5 says, Abide in me and I in you. I'm the vine and you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and i in him the vine.
00:44:02
Shane
He it is that bears much fruit. they Our lives will bear that abundant fruit if we we just abide in him. we We choose to live in him.
00:44:13
Shane
So i don't know if that.
00:44:13
Danny Price
Yeah. Oh, that was so good. Thank you. That was exactly what I was hoping for. because Because it's fun to talk about all the counterfeit Jesus, but it's also it's sometimes hurtful if we're like, well, ha ha, they don't believe the right thing.
00:44:27
Danny Price
It's like, well, what do we believe? What's what's what's truth?
00:44:28
Shane
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point.
00:44:31
Danny Price
um Yeah, and again, just going back to the scripture, I mean, we're talking about, we're in Colossians 2, and Colossians 2, 6 says, therefore, as you received Christ Jesus, the Lord, so walk in him, rooted and built up in him and established the faith, just as you were taught, abounded in thanksgiving.
00:44:47
Danny Price
And if you were there for the sermon, you know, Shane had a great graphic for that. But again, just reminding ourselves that we're, you know the church and our belief, it all starts with Jesus Christ, the Lord, right? and Jesus Christ is God. So that was really cool just for little bit of context. So we're all on the same page, you know, scripturally believing the right things about Jesus.
00:45:05
Danny Price
Thanks for going through those. that was That was more than I thought you would go through. That was that was perfect. um
00:45:11
Shane
good
00:45:11
Danny Price
One more Jesus I wanted to kind of touch on. You talked about tolerance, Jesus. And this is like, again, we're getting social, you know, social justice issues. All this stuff is so fun with this podcast. What's the difference?
00:45:23
Danny Price
And you did talk about a little bit, but I wanted you to flesh out more of the difference between tolerance and love. i see I see so many people cross those over in social media. And all you know a lot of my friends that are very tolerance oriented, they'll say, yeah, well, why? How are who are you to judge? You know, love is love. You know, you you need to love others. And what they're really meaning is you need to have tolerance for other beliefs and other, you know, worldviews.
00:45:47
Danny Price
What do you think? What do you think about that? Is tolerance love? Is it not? Why is it not?
Unconditional Love vs. Tolerance
00:45:51
Danny Price
Why is it?
00:45:52
Shane
Well, I tried to hit on that in our culture, we confuse unconditional love with unconditional approval. um And Jesus is love, but he was never... You cannot find a passage that shows that Jesus tolerated things. The closest thing you could come...
00:46:15
Shane
is where he says he hung out, you know he had dinner with ah after Matthew was saved. um
00:46:21
Danny Price
Tax collectors, sinners.
00:46:22
Shane
he He had tax collectors and prostitutes come over and they had dinner. But Jesus was challenged on that. And what did Jesus say? he said, it's not the the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick, he's calling them sick.
00:46:31
Danny Price
Help. Yep. Yep.
00:46:34
Shane
So, you know, all these people are like, well, Jesus just tolerates. Well, oh sure. If you want to be called sick, I guess he'd tolerate you. um But he's he's literally saying you need to get healthy.
00:46:42
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:46:43
Shane
You are sick if you're practicing these things. um And, you know, like i I literally have, this is one I have done some, like, just digging around, even like reading through the Gospels on my own, even like going into ChatGPT and like trying to say, like, where where does Jesus approve of sinful behavior?
00:46:57
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:47:03
Shane
thing Like, you...
00:47:03
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:47:05
Shane
you know, sure you can manipulate chat, GBT or something like that to, to give you a verse or here and there. But then when you read it in context, you read the whole thing, you see that, well, yeah, he said that, but then he said this right after that, you know?
00:47:14
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah, totally.
00:47:18
Shane
um So it, um yeah. So I think there's a huge difference between loving and tolerating, um you know,
00:47:31
Shane
there again, I go back to as a parent. I mean, i I've never, ever stopped loving my kids, but they have had behaviors in their lives that I do not tolerate.
00:47:37
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:47:41
Shane
And when they were in my home, we had talks about, hey, we don't tolerate this in the home. So if you're gonna practice this in the home, you you're not gonna be in the home.
00:47:47
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:47:52
Shane
So, you know, we're gonna have to figure that out.
00:47:52
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:47:55
Shane
um You know, and then with yeah our adult kids, I mean, they've all known, at different times in our life, that they were maybe doing some things that we didn't, we didn't approve of. and And we weren't okay with that doesn't mean we didn't love them as people didn't mean that we wouldn't have dinner with them didn't mean that we wouldn't, um you know, hang out with them.
00:48:05
Danny Price
yeah
00:48:14
Shane
But we weren't gonna say, hey, yeah, no, that's cool that you're going out and and doing that, you know,
00:48:19
Danny Price
yeah no totally yeah and this is where it gets so hard on social media and certain things when you comment on facebook because a lot of your stuff it's it's just it's falling on deaf ears or it's falling out of context for a lot of people but you're going to hear people say all the time if you're a christian it means god says don't judge and I got to be just honest, like that's not what the Bible says when it talks about that. It does talk about removing, you know, planks from your eye before you move the speck in your brothers and certain things like that.
00:48:47
Danny Price
Christians are not called to have no opinion or no scriptural interpretation of things and to not hold to any morals. I don't see that ever in the Bible. You could make an argument about how it looks like when you call somebody out, and you could talk about what that looks like and how people are to leave their life of sin. And i and i'd I'd hear you with arguments on that, but I don't see anywhere in Scripture where the Bible says...
00:49:10
Danny Price
Take the values that you learn here in in scripture and just suppress those down and don't actually hold, like don't actually think that those are right or wrong and don't judge don't make a judgment. Every time that we look at something and we look at and we hold it up against God's word, we're making a judgment.
00:49:24
Danny Price
Is it good? Is it biblical or is it not biblical?
00:49:25
Shane
Thank
00:49:26
Danny Price
And you can't separate that from your worldview. So when you start hearing people say, don't judge, God do god never judged, Jesus says not to judge. that's not true. I think what there are a lot of times are talking about is God says, you know, to remove your plan the plank in your eye or God says to be loving to others and you can have judgment on somebody or have a judgment about something and be loving. And I think those two can coexist, but you can't say Christians just aren't never to have judgments or never to have thoughts about things because that would be a total denial of a biblical worldview.
00:49:58
Danny Price
Do you have anything you want to say about that chain or?
00:50:00
Shane
Yeah, you know, that verse that you're talking about with the plank, that's actually also where people get that most taken out context because Jesus, to start that off, he says, judge ni that you not that you not be judged.
00:50:00
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:50:15
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah.
00:50:16
Shane
like Or, you know, don't judge so that you won't be judged. And so people go, well, you know, yeah, you're not supposed to judge. You're going to be judged. And first of all, I will say, yeah, i know.
00:50:28
Shane
I know going to be judged. I am going to be judged. Every one of us is going to be judged.
00:50:32
Danny Price
yeah
00:50:32
Shane
We're all going to be judged and as we so as we stand before God. And the only thing that's going to help us escape judgment, the only way we're going escape that is by the blood of Christ, is by being covered by him.
00:50:45
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:50:47
Shane
but Outside of that, yeah, I'm guilty, and I admit it. And if you notice the context of that, he's saying, like you like you just said, he's talking about removing that plank So what he's saying is, hey, you you have sin, and that plank is sin who is what he's saying.
00:51:03
Shane
So remove that plank.
00:51:03
Danny Price
yeah
00:51:04
Shane
Remove that sin. Focus on them removing the sin of your own life. But he's also not saying that the speck in your brother's eye is not sin. He's not saying, hey, that plank.
00:51:12
Danny Price
Well, and then you will be able to see clearly to remove the spec in your brother's eye.
00:51:15
Shane
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:51:16
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:51:17
Shane
So the the the the brother, that that person has sin as well. So, you know, the Bible is very clear. We, yeah, we are not the judges.
00:51:29
Shane
That part is true.
00:51:29
Danny Price
Correct.
00:51:29
Shane
Jesus is the judge. But we, and the the Bible's clear, he is going to come back and he's going to judge. And so as Christians, when we're calling this out, we're not judging.
00:51:40
Shane
What we're trying to do is call people to something better so that when Christ comes, they will escape judgment. You know, butre we're trying to convict of sin.
00:51:48
Danny Price
yeah yeah.
00:51:51
Shane
Because we have all these people that want to want to say that they're not sinners. And the Bible is clear. The only way you're going to escape judgment is by admitting you're a sinner, repenting of that sin, turning to him, and and and living in living by the covering blood of Jesus Christ.
00:52:02
Danny Price
yeah
00:52:10
Shane
And outside of that... you're going to be judged. And so that's what we're seeking to do. And, you know, the Bible very clear. We are eval we're to evaluate all actions according to God's word.
00:52:23
Shane
We're to correct behavior.
00:52:23
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:52:26
Shane
werere um We're to call it out, especially within the church, you know, especially among people who call themselves Christ followers.
00:52:30
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:52:33
Shane
um But even outside in the world, we're at least to help get try to get people to a place where they see that they are sinners. Right.
00:52:41
Danny Price
Yeah. No, I agree. I think it's so hard when you try to balance that with love. And I think a lot of people, they they fall into, they fall really hard on one side or the other.
00:52:53
Danny Price
They're either way too loving and way too accepting of everything or they're way too judgmental.
00:52:55
Shane
yeah
00:52:56
Danny Price
And I think a lot of times that's where you get a lot of people who have a visceral reaction when they hear someone say, well, that's wrong. And you go, who are you to judge? And it gets, you know, and again, you're right. I'm not, I'm just looking at what the Bible says of what God says.
00:53:07
Danny Price
um One thing I wanted to mention.
00:53:08
Shane
um
00:53:09
Danny Price
Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Say, say what you're to say.
00:53:10
Shane
Well, think can I tell a quick um illustration?
00:53:14
Danny Price
Yeah, no, we're, yeah.
00:53:15
Shane
Okay. um You know I'm not a big fan of Ray Comfort in in some of his things, but he he gives an illustration I think is great.
00:53:22
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:53:25
Shane
And it's the idea that if if you handed everyone, everyone getting on a plane, if you told handed them a parachute and you said, hey, you have to wear this the whole time you're on the plane. Chances are, and you and and you never explained anything. You just said, hey, we're going on this plane trip.
00:53:42
Danny Price
yeah
00:53:42
Shane
Chances are none of them are going to wear it because they they're just they've been on enough planes. They just feel like, oh, i'm gonna we're going to land fine. This is uncomfortable. It's annoying. Why would I wear this?
00:53:53
Shane
But if you literally told them this plane is going to crash, this parachute is the only thing that's going to save you. Well, chances are everyone will put this the they parachute on, right?
00:54:02
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:54:05
Shane
um Obviously, I would just turn around not get on the plane personally, but but um you know what I mean.
00:54:05
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:54:10
Danny Price
There's a hole. Yeah.
00:54:13
Shane
And the problem is, he yeah and I just like what he says about this, we're becoming a culture... that is saying, well, don't tell people the plane is gonna crash. Don't, you know, we should not tell anyone that.
00:54:25
Shane
Don't don't use the word sin. Don't call people sinners.
00:54:28
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:54:29
Shane
You know, just, you know, let everyone do their thing. They'll they'll figure it out. Like, let people just, you know, God will convict them. Well, no, we are supposed to be the tools to to do that.
00:54:40
Shane
He calls us to do that.
00:54:41
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:54:42
Shane
So so we're we're literally getting people on a, when we're afraid to call sin out,
00:54:42
Danny Price
Word to share the gospel.
00:54:48
Shane
We're literally saying, we're telling these people to get on a plane that we know is going to crash, and we're not willing to give them the opportunity to be saved.
00:54:57
Danny Price
Yeah. but that's that's
00:54:58
Shane
So.
00:55:00
Danny Price
That's a really good that's a good analogy. I like that. Obviously, it does fall apart a little bit. with Just don't get on the plane.
00:55:04
Shane
Oh, yeah.
00:55:04
Danny Price
but Yeah.
00:55:05
Shane
Oh, yeah. if i
00:55:06
Danny Price
One thing I wanted to say, we we were going to do a question about identity and we didn't really have time. We're going to end here shortly, but I did want to talk about this because i thought this was really interesting when it comes to tolerance and love. and There was a video that I watched a little while back between Sean McDowell and this other guy named Preston Sprinkle.
00:55:24
Danny Price
and If you don't know who that is, he's has he's a really big in the just a world of Christians who struggle with same-sex attraction homosexuality and One of the things that they argued about, which I thought was a really good point and that Sean McDowell made, was
00:55:31
Shane
I'll go.
00:55:36
Danny Price
we're so very often when it comes to our identity in Jesus, we we want to call ourselves Christians, right? As soon as we become, we have faith in Jesus. And oftentimes you'll hear the words, well, I'm a, for example, I'm a gay Christian or I'm a homosexual Christian.
00:55:49
Danny Price
And just a reminder with identity or identity being in Christ is, this is a little bit of a tangent, but I to bring this up i thought it was really interesting is we are not ever called to identify with our sin.
00:56:02
Danny Price
And as a Christian, you'll never hear me say, well, I'm a lying Christian or I'm a whatever Christian, or you'll hear, you'll'll'll you'll never hear anyone talk about that. And you never hear Jesus affirm those beliefs or affirm those things in people.
00:56:10
Shane
Yeah.
00:56:14
Danny Price
I'm not saying that if you struggle with same sex attraction, that you can't also be a Christian, but it's very, it should be clear to you that that's a behavior or that's a thought or an ideology or a sin that you struggle with.
00:56:26
Danny Price
And that's separate from your identity. You should not ever try to mix sinful behavior a sinful desire with your identity because your identity is in Jesus. And that's different. So just just as an argument, I hear a lot of people will say, you know when especially when it comes to this with tolerance and with love, hey, you know it's fine if you... It's fine if you're ah ah a gay Christian, for example, and I don't see anywhere in scripture that says that, where you you are to identify as a sin that you are struggling with and as a Christian.
00:56:53
Danny Price
You are a Christian, and that means that you're trying to be sanctified and you're trying to with God's power, you know, you're trying to eliminate some of those behaviors and desires. Same thing with lying, same thing with lust, same thing with cheating, same thing with bragging, same thing with laziness.
00:57:06
Danny Price
You'll never hear someone say, well, I'm just a lazy Christian or I'm just a bragging Christian or I'm just an adultery, adultery, adulterous, adulterous Christian.
00:57:13
Shane
Adulterous Christian.
00:57:13
Danny Price
You'll never hear anyone say that. um So just a reminder as again, when we when Shane was talking about our identity being in Jesus, that was something that kind of caught my attention, especially when it comes to this tolerance idea of that's not ever in scripture to identify as a sin and as a Christian.
Identity in Christ vs. Sinful Behavior
00:57:27
Shane
Yeah, no, that's a great word. And, you know, just to clarify, i mean, to repeat what you said, i can't think of the word. um You know, it doesn't mean you're not a Christian.
00:57:40
Shane
It just means don't don't let the enemy hold you with with that that sin by giving that as part of your identity.
00:57:43
Danny Price
Yes.
00:57:48
Danny Price
Yes.
00:57:48
Shane
Doesn't mean you won't struggle. Doesn't mean you might not sin.
00:57:50
Danny Price
Correct.
00:57:51
Shane
But it it doesn't mean that's part of who you are. You you are a son and daughter of the king, and you are you belong to Christ, and that is your identity. The rest of the stuff is stuff we're so we're living this life seeking to shed.
00:58:05
Shane
And, um yeah, so...
00:58:05
Danny Price
Yes.
00:58:08
Shane
Good point, Danny.
00:58:08
Danny Price
Yeah, totally. Last, really quick, just again, it's not really a question, but well, it is a question, but it's not like a super long topic. Which which one of these Jesus's that you talked about do you think is the most dangerous for us in our time right now as as a as a culture in the United States?
00:58:22
Shane
ah That's a good question. um Man, i don't know. i mean, they're all dangerous. um You know, I think like in our culture, living here like here in our church right now, I would say the political one is a big one.
00:58:28
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:58:38
Shane
um You know, because we we just live in a culture where that's kind of a big thing. we We get caught up in that.
00:58:45
Danny Price
yeah
00:58:46
Shane
We really want Jesus to identify with our view.
00:58:49
Danny Price
yeah
00:58:50
Shane
um You know, um but, you know, I think if you've got... Kids in the home still. And when I say kids in maybe not even in just in the home, but all the way up to maybe your age, um the deconstructed Jesus is one that I feel like, man, you, you really got to be prepared to, to deal with that. and you need to be praying against it with, for your kids. And, and you need to be discerning about like, man, when you send them to college, you know, um man, don't just send them and not expect that they're going to go, they're going to face this in a huge way. You know, so
00:59:26
Shane
That's a huge one. um You know, i i would i would say we don't, I don't know anyone in our church who would who would blatantly identify with the um prosperity jes Jesus, but let's face it, man, we live in a prosperous area.
00:59:41
Danny Price
yeah
00:59:45
Danny Price
yeah
00:59:45
Shane
And a a friend, Kevin Rhodes, a guy, I don't know if Kevin kevin listens, but um I've gotten to know him pretty well. And he says um God's given him the the help, the gift of ministering to those who suffer with influenza.
01:00:06
Shane
um like influence, people who have a lot of influence.
01:00:08
Danny Price
Yeah.
01:00:09
Shane
um And, you know, i like what he's saying because we do, we live in a culture where there's a lot of people with a lot of influence.
01:00:09
Danny Price
Yeah.
01:00:15
Shane
And, you know, and I love, you know, there's some god there's some people in this church who I love because they kind of have this mindset of like, Look, God's blessed me with some, a lot of financial influence, but man, I want to use it for his kingdom.
01:00:28
Shane
I want to really challenge myself to not just spend more and buy more.
01:00:29
Danny Price
Yeah.
01:00:33
Shane
And, you know, cause I kind i'm not going to take it with me, but I'm going to, you know, I want to give it to him.
01:00:34
Danny Price
Hmm. Yeah.
01:00:37
Shane
So as long as we're, you know, so that's different than believing in the prosperity Jesus, but, um but it's still a struggle.
01:00:42
Danny Price
Yes.
01:00:44
Shane
I think anyone who has a lot of money, I think anyone in our culture, we struggle with that. It's tough.
01:00:48
Danny Price
Yeah.
01:00:49
Shane
um
01:00:49
Danny Price
No.
01:00:50
Shane
So those would be kind of the three who I would say, you know, in our area, like we're knowing that I think 99.9% of our listeners go to our church.
01:00:53
Danny Price
Okay.
01:00:59
Shane
um And that's, those would be the three that I would, would say.
01:01:00
Danny Price
Yeah. Well, I think so. Yeah.
01:01:05
Danny Price
Okay. Yep. Valid. Valid.
Conclusion & Invitation to Dialogue
01:01:08
Danny Price
um Awesome. that That's the end of the questions. We are going to do a podcast on deconstruction that's that's coming up, um just to give you guys a little preview.
01:01:15
Danny Price
So just be on the lookout for that.
01:01:17
Shane
Oh, that's right. You were talking about we' you were talking about that that just this week.
01:01:20
Danny Price
Yeah, so that's it's going to come out pretty soon. So that's just in case you're curious about that. We're going to go into that in quite ah quite a bit of detail. So appreciate you guys listening. and I know this is a longer episode, but you know we had valid reasons. We had a lot to discuss. And just with politics, it's a touchy subject. And we want to want to handle that as best we can biblically. It's not going to be perfect. And again, just to reiterate, a lot of the things that we've said here, we've said some you know put some strong you know hard lines in the sand. and If you're curious or frustrated about how we're but representing things, we'd love to talk.
01:01:51
Shane
If we ruffled your feathers.
01:01:52
Danny Price
you know If we ruffled those feathers,
01:01:54
Shane
Sorry, I just want, that's her that's our, ah every every podcast I want to have a ah phrase that we use.
01:01:57
Danny Price
we need a theme. a theme.
01:02:01
Danny Price
i like that. Yeah, if we ruffled feathers, I'd love to talk to you about stuff. Or if you're, um you know I know you might get on the warpath of we got to be super political, you know? And so the same thing, you know, I'd love to talk to you about that too. So anyways, appreciate you guys all listening again, you know, pass this your friends. We'd love to get questions. We got one question this this week, but especially with stuff like this, where it's a little bit touchy subjects, questions do help us know where you guys are at and where, what you're thinking about, because we'd never want to be, this podcast was never designed to be,
01:02:33
Danny Price
us just talking about what we think you guys would want to hear. We do want to talk about what you guys need to want want to hear and hear answers about and talk about. So appreciate you all listening. We will catch you guys potentially later this week. We'll see when this next podcast comes out, but for sure we'll be back next week after the sermon.
01:02:48
Danny Price
All Sounds good.
01:02:49
Shane
Sounds good.
01:02:49
Danny Price
Bye-bye guys.