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00:00:00
00:00:01
The Humble King *With Special Guest Bruce*
33 Plays10 days ago
In this episode, Danny and Bruce chat about the sermon Bruce preached on Jesus. They discuss the divinity of Jesus, the Trinity, Humility, Baptism and more!
Verses
The Book of Colossians
Verse on Baptism Acts 2:38
Verse on Jesus Emptying - Philippians 2:5-8
Verse on the healed Blind Man John 9:2-3
Verse on the Entire Household getting Baptized - Acts 16:33
Books
Tactics - Greg Koukl
Resources on Trinity
I'll work on getting a better list together, but right now I would encourage you google your question and look for answers on the website GotQuestions.
Also, when it's released, I'll link the video of the debate I was able to watch on the different views on the Trinity from an LDS member and a Christian.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Background
00:00:32
Danny Price
everybody. Welcome to episode 41 of the Table Talk Discussions podcast. I'm Danny Price. I'm really excited for this episode. i have another guest with us this week. I have Bruce Helgeson. Is it Helgeson or Helgelson? How do you say your last name properly?
00:00:46
Bruce Helgeson
Elgason, yep.
00:00:47
Danny Price
Helgeson. That's very Canadian, it sounds like. Helgeson. Anyway, so I have Bruce Helgeson.
00:00:53
Bruce Helgeson
It's simulated.
00:00:54
Danny Price
um So Bruce taught on so this last Sunday, um It was kind of a little bit of a recap as well of Colossians and just some things about Jesus. It was a great, great sermon.
00:01:06
Danny Price
And I have not had him on the podcast. He's taught a handful of times um since we've started the podcast and I haven't had the chance to get him on yet. So really excited to do that. um Bruce, do you just want to introduce yourself to everyone? Maybe share a little bit of your background, to your story and kind of what brought you to Mountain View?
00:01:23
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. You betcha I can do that.
00:01:27
Danny Price
but
00:01:27
Bruce Helgeson
i So yeah, my background is as a Minnesota kid growing up six miles from Canada. um Essentially, was raised in a Christian family. lot of great experiences, Bible camp experiences, a lot of what people would expect to kind of encounter with MBF Church as they grow.
00:01:49
Bruce Helgeson
and attend with their families and get into their adulthood and so forth. But I was spent a couple of years up in Canada, actually at a Bible college, discipleship school, and later on i was dean of men there for a year.
00:02:04
Bruce Helgeson
But that was a ah very formative year where it wasn't just about What I was told and what I was taught as a Christ follower, even though I gave my life to Christ at eight, I mean, I really, at that time in my third year out of high school, kind of just, that was my formative years of really walking with Jesus and serving him.
00:02:25
Bruce Helgeson
And ah years down the road, ended up meeting this girl that's from Logan, Utah.
00:02:25
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:02:31
Bruce Helgeson
I was raised in an LDS background and had no idea what that was and did not encounter that culture in Minnesota at all, but ended up moving here in, in 94, went to Utah state and got my teaching degree after leaving my funeral business, that profession, that was my family's profession and my first gig.
00:02:37
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:02:53
Bruce Helgeson
But we spent four years in Utah and ended up not being able to make it on a teacher salary in
Career and Ministry Journey
00:03:00
Bruce Helgeson
Utah. So moved back to Minnesota for 18 years, ended up into youth ministry, ended up after seminary of three years, going into an associate role, very similar to what I am doing right now.
00:03:13
Bruce Helgeson
Our family decided, hey, we need to get back to Utah. Our kids don't know ah Lorraine's family that well. And that was the primary reason, plus the environment and the weather was another factor. But I moved to here thinking, man, what a drag.
00:03:30
Bruce Helgeson
I don't think I'll ever get a ministry job in Utah ever. So I was kind of like, you know, i never thought this would ever happen. Back in 22, was hired by Capital Church in Salt Lake to be the Park City campus pastor.
00:03:46
Bruce Helgeson
I was there two and a half years and was hired by MBF Church almost two years ago 2024. So I'm coming up on my two year anniversary as of Easter time.
00:03:59
Bruce Helgeson
And i am the Connections Pastor, which is essentially volunteer ministries, first impressions, meaning volunteer ministries. And with regards to discipleship, a lot of the groups and classes and just really kind of helping out and supporting a lot of the other ministries and special events.
00:04:20
Bruce Helgeson
So that's pretty much it. And also a chaplain for park city, some accounting for the police department and highway patrol or county.
00:04:28
Danny Price
Oh, I didn't know that.
Role as Chaplain and Church Responsibilities
00:04:30
Danny Price
I didn't know that.
00:04:30
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah. And we just started a chaplain program and Heber city for the police here. So that's probably two months into it right now.
00:04:42
Danny Price
That's really exciting. um
00:04:44
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:04:44
Danny Price
So what does that what does that look like? You just meet with them every so often and do a service. I'm so i'm so ignorant on what that is.
00:04:49
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah. Yeah, so when we started the police program in Park City, there there are 13 or 14 of us right now. And we went through a training with a gentleman who is military trained and is certified with Chaplain program.
00:05:04
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:05:08
Bruce Helgeson
That was a six, seven month process and just kind of the essentials on how to primarily care for the law enforcement officers. and yet in situations where you're on a call and we each take a 24-hour being on call usually two of us on call at a time and so a lot of the responses if we do get called out are not just supporting the officers but also either families of victims and or people that are you know experiencing trauma of some sort so it's kind of a
00:05:43
Bruce Helgeson
Every situation is different. You don't know what's going to happen until you get there. And so it's kind of like waving into the or wading into the water and seeing where the Holy Spirit takes you kind of experience.
00:05:54
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:05:54
Bruce Helgeson
And so really it is to support. And then we we do offer some training for the officers at times just on how to navigate conversations and letting them know who we are.
00:05:59
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:06:06
Bruce Helgeson
Because honestly, the ah service that we provide as chaplains is not as... is is Officers aren't used to having that access to that support system.
00:06:18
Bruce Helgeson
And so sometimes people are just a little more nervous about even calling us in, but that's our role is to be there when they need it.
00:06:26
Danny Price
That's really cool. Awesome.
00:06:28
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:06:28
Danny Price
Well, cool. Well, we'll jump in. i got a couple questions from some viewers and then some of them my own. I keep saying viewers like we're a
Podcast's Sermon Discussion Approach
00:06:37
Danny Price
YouTube channel. where We're only podcasts.
00:06:39
Danny Price
Maybe one day we'll do that where we have our faces on here. That's dreadful for you guys having to.
00:06:44
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:06:44
Danny Price
You guys you probably think I'm so attracted to a bit by my voice. But in reality, if you saw my face, just kidding.
00:06:48
Bruce Helgeson
Oh, they'd all love you. Yeah.
00:06:51
Danny Price
um So first question. for those of you, again, if you don't know what we're talking about, it's kind of confusing. It definitely would help to listen to the sermon first, just to give clarification. I always push that, um,
00:07:07
Danny Price
Just because, again, this is how it's always been with this podcast. Sorry, again, this is a little bit of a derailment sidetrack, but the podcast has always been kind of just my questions or as other people's questions. It does not follow the outline of the sermon. So if you're listening and you're Like, really, is that what they're talking about every sermon? The questions that I'm asking are not necessarily always, i mean, I might fixate on one small part of the sermon and have all the questions be based about that based off of what I think is interesting or what a listener thinks is interesting. So just so you guys know, these questions don't do not at all follow the outline of the sermon.
Theological Discussions on Jesus's Nature
00:07:41
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:07:41
Danny Price
So that being said, the sermon was about Jesus and Jesus's nature and his humility and his his servant leadership and how we follow him. lot of it coming from Colossians. And this question particularly is about the nature of of Jesus. going to read it. It's a little bit longer. So just hang with me here.
00:07:59
Danny Price
This question is from Zach. He says, a friend and I had a discussion last week regarding the language of fully God and fully man. My friend was not comfortable with that language because he felt that Jesus is emptying and laying aside slash giving up of certain attributes like his omnipresence and omniscience.
00:08:16
Danny Price
would mean that Jesus was not fully God. He was thinking that Jesus learned and grew and that those and that those are things that God cannot do. So he could also not be fully God. How would you respond to questions like these?
00:08:30
Danny Price
So a pretty easy question for you, Bruce, just to kick it off. What would you say?
00:08:35
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:08:38
Bruce Helgeson
You know,
00:08:41
Bruce Helgeson
even if the language, I mean, this is where kind of like different versions of scripture are helpful.
00:08:49
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:08:49
Bruce Helgeson
Emptying, the term emptying is actually, i like the term laying aside his divinity to, in submission to the father who was the one who sent him to be born in human form.
00:08:55
Danny Price
Hmm. Hmm.
00:09:04
Bruce Helgeson
And, and that's where, you know, we just have, in many cases, I mean, scripture shows or tells us some of this information. And so it's really up to us to, even though we as human beings can't understand like the reality of
00:09:14
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:09:20
Bruce Helgeson
how this works, the fact is is that this is what Scripture tells us. And to take that essentially by faith, but also to also remember that prophetically in Old Testament, these things were spoken of, but that they would happen.
00:09:38
Bruce Helgeson
And then the way that Christ has lived out his life, the way that through the Gospels in particular, how he explains his relationship with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
00:09:51
Bruce Helgeson
we have to take those things into consideration. And I think that's one of the things that are primary is that we need to really
00:09:54
Danny Price
hu
00:10:01
Bruce Helgeson
realize that we can trust what scripture says it is hard to kind of wrap our brains around it i think this the whole trinitarian language which is not in scripture you know the the word trinity is not in scripture but that's what we give to the term to help explain the godhood of father son and holy spirit and i like to think of it
00:10:15
Danny Price
Right.
00:10:23
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:10:26
Bruce Helgeson
This might be going all off off course a little bit, but I like to think of it as, like you and I are human beings, okay?
00:10:34
Danny Price
Yep.
00:10:34
Bruce Helgeson
God is a being, and as we are different persons, you and I are different. Our wives are unique persons.
00:10:45
Bruce Helgeson
The same thing holds true over Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are separate persons, although they are one being. as we are human beings, and yet their their their role is what really identifies them and sets them apart.
00:11:01
Bruce Helgeson
And I think that's one thing that we have to kind of keep into consideration.
00:11:02
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:11:06
Bruce Helgeson
and if you consider, like, i think it's Mark 1, like where Jesus' baptism takes place, it says that the Holy Spirit be descended like a dove,
00:11:14
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:11:18
Bruce Helgeson
And then the voice from heaven, the Father says, you are my beloved son. That's one instance where the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are in that same location, that same action, so to speak, all right there.
00:11:35
Bruce Helgeson
And that's something to kind of consider. Obviously, John chapter one is a ah very prominent place where it describes the Trinity as well.
00:11:42
Danny Price
yeah
00:11:45
Bruce Helgeson
But I think you know if you consider God is one being, and yet with three persons separate with unique roles, I think that's something to consider.
00:11:57
Bruce Helgeson
Like the Father has sent the Son, John 3.16, for God so loved the world that he sent his only Son.
00:12:00
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:12:05
Bruce Helgeson
And then the Son sends the Holy Spirit, that is referenced, I believe, in John 15, and And yet also what I mentioned in in the in the sermon, the son prays and submits to the father when he was in the garden of Gethsemane in Matthew 26. So there's that that role of submission to the father.
00:12:28
Bruce Helgeson
And yet in John 16, later on, it says that basically the Holy Spirit is the one who glorifies the son. And in fact, um,
00:12:42
Bruce Helgeson
He sent the Son out. In fact, if, if, if just think of it this way, if the Holy Spirit was, if, if Christ had not ascended, put it that way, his presence to be doing what he has been doing would have been limited to his locale because he's human still.
00:12:51
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:12:59
Bruce Helgeson
But now that he was resurrected and sits at the right hand of the father, He said, Ben, I will send my spirit to teach you and to remind you and to guide you.
00:13:10
Bruce Helgeson
Thus, that's how the church started really to flourish and starting with the cost.
00:13:16
Danny Price
Yep.
00:13:17
Bruce Helgeson
So hopefully that kind of feels okay.
00:13:19
Danny Price
but that was the No, that was good. It's such a hard question because i think, and I think, unfortunately, I think in in Christianity, we often, me and Shane have talked about this, but we often try to use things like water or an egg or a triangle to kind of describe the Trinity.
00:13:24
Bruce Helgeson
It is. ye
00:13:40
Bruce Helgeson
Right. Yep.
00:13:40
Danny Price
and
00:13:42
Danny Price
it's, it's, it might be helpful when you're younger and you're just trying to like wrap your head around it, but it's not a hundred percent accurate to what the Bible said.
00:13:45
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:13:48
Danny Price
You did a great job breaking on the the Bible verses. Um, if I were to answer that question of like how could god like how like how does God learn because God can't learn? because but Again, you have to think about there's two a two natures thing.
00:14:00
Bruce Helgeson
Right.
00:14:01
Danny Price
It's like like you said, and i and I want to read that verse that you mentioned in Philippians just so everyone knows what we're talking about.
00:14:02
Bruce Helgeson
Yes.
00:14:07
Bruce Helgeson
Okay.
00:14:08
Danny Price
This is from the yeah ESV, and like Bruce said, you should probably read it from other versions just to kind of—it helps you get the full picture. Yeah. This is starting in Philippians 2, chapter 2, verse 5, and then I'm going to go all the way through 8.
00:14:21
Danny Price
it says, have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the servant or sorry but taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men, and being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, to the point of death even death on the cross
00:14:22
Bruce Helgeson
Okay.
00:14:44
Danny Price
Um, so again, just like reinforcing that, like equality with God and he emptied himself and you can, um, there are different versions. We'll say like, late yeah, laid aside, other things like that. Um, I think it's really difficult for us to just like, us to like grasp that of like two distinct natures.
00:14:54
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah, in my mute.
00:15:00
Danny Price
You have fully God and you have fully man. Um, this is a common, I think a stumbling block for a lot of people though, because, our minds I don't think can comprehend the the both part of that.
00:15:11
Bruce Helgeson
Right, exactly.
00:15:12
Danny Price
Um, cause we are all, we're yeah all we're used to is just us being fully man. And so I don't know, you know, the understanding like those two coming together and marrying themselves and and Jesus somehow laying aside his divinity in certain aspects, like where he could have done certain miracles or done certain things and he decides not to.
00:15:28
Danny Price
like for example, when the, they ask him, think it's his disciples ask him to call down angels from heaven.
00:15:34
Bruce Helgeson
Right.
00:15:35
Danny Price
And he doesn't, I might be, I might be misquoting that, but basically the point is he could have called angels down from heaven to save himself.
00:15:38
Bruce Helgeson
Yes.
00:15:40
Danny Price
And he didn't. um And just certain things like that, where he definitely lays aside his divinity. But again, it he doesn't lay it the aside to the point where he's not God. He just lays it aside in terms of the the power that he's using.
00:15:52
Danny Price
um But yeah, that's, that's a difficult, that's a difficult question to answer for someone else.
00:15:54
Bruce Helgeson
Right. It is. right
00:15:58
Danny Price
Especially if you're struggling with that, that's not an easy, that's not something that's easy.
00:15:58
Bruce Helgeson
there
00:16:01
Danny Price
do you have anything else you want to add to that or any other comments?
00:16:04
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah, yeah just I'm just looking at my New Living Translation and that's verse 7 says, He took the humble position of a slave and appeared in human form. Like, your version says, empty himself.
00:16:18
Bruce Helgeson
And that reality is is is again like his role of submitting to the father as the one who's sending him um i mean that's that's what scripture tells us and yet i think it's it's a hard one to grasp and i and i while christ was in human form on earth i mean there's limitations of that humanity and i think the reason like you said is he didn't use his power as god
00:16:18
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:16:49
Bruce Helgeson
is so that he could essentially exalt the authority of his father to use it when it is his time when it's the father's time to do so not his time
00:17:00
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:17:02
Bruce Helgeson
So I like the the definition of that, the the three persons and in their unique roles as that father is like our father. He's our authority.
00:17:13
Bruce Helgeson
Although that's not really the word I like to use. I like the the word sub submission or subordinate because of the role that they each take.
00:17:23
Danny Price
yeah
00:17:24
Bruce Helgeson
If that makes sense.
00:17:24
Danny Price
And that's a whole nother thing too, to get into that. Um, because ah And I had this as a previous question, but just to really quickly review that, because we're going to go into this here in a second, but there is there is a hierarchy in a certain sense in the Trinity, which might make you uncomfortable like that if I first say that. We'll talk about that in the next question, but it's very interesting how that works.
00:17:46
Danny Price
I'm just looking at this question to make sure we fully got it. The only other thing I would add to this is for this person who's asking this question,
00:17:57
Danny Price
Really, the only thing that we can do is just read what the Bible says and then do our best to interpret that. So when it says, for example, um this person doesn't like the idea that that there's a laying aside of the certain attributes like omnipresence and omniscience.
00:18:05
Bruce Helgeson
Right.
00:18:15
Danny Price
It says, I mean, I just read you the verse where it says he did that. And so if that makes you uncomfortable or like bummed out or you don't get it, I understand that. And that makes sense. But it does say that scripture and it says to other places too.
00:18:26
Bruce Helgeson
Right.
00:18:27
Danny Price
And then also same thing where he learns.
00:18:27
Bruce Helgeson
Right.
00:18:30
Danny Price
I'm like, if Jesus really is taking on a human form, he has to learn.
00:18:33
Bruce Helgeson
That's
00:18:35
Danny Price
Because I mean, if you're born as a baby, you would have to say that he has this, like, even though he has the conscience of God and like he is God,
00:18:42
Bruce Helgeson
Yep.
00:18:42
Danny Price
if he's fully taken on human form, part of the human experience is growing and maturing and learning. Um, now I don't believe God sinned.
00:18:48
Bruce Helgeson
Absolutely.
00:18:48
Danny Price
I don't think we can hold to that at all. Um, because that would totally, um, That would totally be, i'm um in my opinion, heretical. But to say that Jesus didn't learn as a human would be that he just knew everything and just didn't, like, either he did everything as an infant and and was able to do it all, which doesn't make any sense, or he didn't learn and he always knew how to do it, but he was just, like, holding it back, which also seems a little bit weird.
00:18:57
Bruce Helgeson
Mm-hmm.
00:19:11
Danny Price
So it's like for him to be fully God, again, fully man, mind-bending, you have we have to just read what Scripture says, right?
00:19:15
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:19:18
Danny Price
And if you're not going to read what scripture says with any authority, then I can totally see how you come up with these questions and it really confuses you. But if you're reading it with authority and you're like, this is truth, what scripture said about Jesus is true, then you you kind of it kind of pushes you into the Trinity.
00:19:30
Danny Price
Like you have to believe that and you have to believe that god that Jesus is fully God, fully man.
00:19:32
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:19:34
Danny Price
So.
00:19:35
Bruce Helgeson
And that and and by receiving that in faith, because you do
Jesus's Human Nature and Submission
00:19:39
Bruce Helgeson
trust the scriptures.
00:19:39
Danny Price
Correct.
00:19:40
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:19:41
Danny Price
Even though we don't understand.
00:19:41
Bruce Helgeson
The only word Right, right. The only perfect rule for faith, doctrine, and conduct is what we say.
00:19:48
Danny Price
Yeah, that's good. um So Zach, hopefully that answers your question for your friend. Sorry if if it doesn't. Question number two, this is my question.
00:19:59
Danny Price
If Jesus is God, which again, we just kind of talked about that he is, but if Jesus is God, why did he try and, in quotes, get out of dying on the cross by asking God to have this cup pass from him when he was in the garden?
00:20:11
Danny Price
So the night before he was betrayed, or the night he was betrayed. He asked God to take this cup from him. why Why does he do that if he's fully God?
00:20:21
Bruce Helgeson
I think honestly, it's it's his human response as yes, God, but it's that's his humanity coming out.
00:20:26
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:20:30
Bruce Helgeson
Like I would suspect because of his drops, sweating drops of blood, the fear, the stress, the pain factor, knowing what's coming in that culture and knowing what Roman crucifixion, what happens.
00:20:37
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:45
Bruce Helgeson
I just really truly believe that was his human response. And then again his role of of being sent by the father as a sinless person human knowing that this is the father's will he shows his you his humble sub subordination to the father's will by saying yet not my will yours be done i think Honestly, that's the only response that I can come up with there.
00:21:15
Bruce Helgeson
I just think it's a total human response that I probably would do the same. Get me out of here.
00:21:20
Danny Price
Yeah, no, it's really true. um Yeah, that's tough. I'm trying to think of anything I could add to that.
00:21:32
Danny Price
I do think it's important to note that Jesus doesn't say, i he asked if this cup could pass, if it's possible. But he also says, but not my will, but your will be done.
00:21:46
Danny Price
And I think just realizing that Jesus knows that this is part, this is part of the plan. And even though, again, the, and the incarnated body, you know, and the, and the human nature, Jesus is like, this is going to be really bad and terrible and I'm really going to suffer.
00:22:01
Danny Price
Um, but then this being part of God's plan, this is like the perfect, the perfect lineup, you know, to redeem all of, you know, humankind, you know, he goes with the, like Jesus goes with this, with this plan. Um,
00:22:14
Danny Price
in the midst of being, you know, like you said, just like in complete agony and stress. Um, like I, I can't imagine that knowing what's about to happen and really grasping it and also grasping the, the, just the separation, um, from his followers. And then later, you know, being crucified and dying. And, um, you know, it does it does say the separation from the father. And I just, I can't imagine that. Um,
00:22:41
Danny Price
Like knowing that ahead of time and then and then still willfully walking into it, even even having this moment of like, hey, if it's possible, I could let this cup pass from me. And then knowing it's not possible and then still walking through with it.
00:22:52
Danny Price
It's pretty wild. Yeah.
00:22:55
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah, and and you said, if it is possible, I think part of his his humility and submission is that he knew there is no other possibility.
00:23:08
Bruce Helgeson
other than a pure sacrificial lamb whom he was.
00:23:14
Danny Price
yeah Yeah, no, that's really good.
00:23:15
Bruce Helgeson
And that's a that's a tough one to swallow, you know, as a human person. Thus, the fear the request
00:23:26
Danny Price
um Really quick with with that, I did want to just touch on this question. um For those of you who might be a little confused, because again, i and i and I agree this is confusing. I'm still wrapping my head around it.
00:23:41
Danny Price
When we're talking about subordination or submission in the Trinity, um you know, like for example, the the the the son submits to the father and the father begets begets the son. um And, you know, the and the spirit, you know, the spirit also.
00:23:58
Danny Price
I think it's sometimes confusing because I think people, this would lead them down this path. And I think kind of going back to the previous question of, This must mean that Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are, like you would say, or like you said earlier, not
Understanding the Trinity
00:24:15
Danny Price
the same being. They're different beings.
00:24:18
Danny Price
um So they're ontological, which is a fancy word, which we did define in a previous podcast, but they're on lot they're ontology.
00:24:24
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:24:25
Danny Price
they're They're like different stuff. And just reminding, they're not.
00:24:27
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah, and they're different persons. they they Right.
00:24:30
Danny Price
Yeah, and they're different persons. They're not. That's not that's not accurate.
00:24:32
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:24:33
Danny Price
ah But just wanting to reinforce that, I guess. You want to talk about that for a second and you kind of spin on that?
00:24:36
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah. Just the fact that they're one being in different persons.
00:24:45
Danny Price
Yeah, just like, what is that? I mean, as as as clumsily as we can as humans, just try but maybe just explain that a little bit because I don't want people coming away saying that we're thinking that they're that they're completely separate beings.
00:24:57
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah, I would just go back again. it's the, the beat excuse me, the personage of each father, son, and Holy Spirit. it's It's dependent on their roles. I mean they always have, they were not created. They were always in existence.
00:25:14
Bruce Helgeson
And the role factor of where we kind of see this, if you want to say authoritarian kind of or You mentioned hierarchy.
00:25:25
Bruce Helgeson
I mean, it kind you can kind of view it as that, but I think it's really coming down to the role of, the like I said, the father who sends the son and the son who sent the spirit.
00:25:26
Danny Price
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:25:34
Danny Price
h
00:25:39
Bruce Helgeson
when when he was resurrected, but also that the son was in submission to the father in the garden of Eden again. But, and then the spirit, what he speaks and what he teaches will always glorify the son. So there's those different roles that, in and obviously one of Jesus' roles was becoming human, becoming that sacrificial lamb.
00:26:03
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:26:03
Bruce Helgeson
Again, i mean, and just the spirit without without the Holy Spirit coming to essentially the church, again, there would have been a limitation if it was only Christ here because of this human form.
00:26:18
Bruce Helgeson
He could only be and and speak in certain locations while he is in heaven now, ascended with the Father. It is the Holy Spirit that he sent to fulfill the role of teaching and guiding the church, so to speak, and speaking truth.
00:26:34
Danny Price
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:26:37
Bruce Helgeson
reflecting back on the words of Christ, which is what glorifies the sun.
00:26:37
Danny Price
Right.
00:26:42
Danny Price
Right. That was good. That's that's a confusing thing. I just did want to draw draw that distinction, like you said.
00:26:47
Bruce Helgeson
Oh no.
00:26:49
Danny Price
because And this is where we would differ from Latter-day Saints, for example. on their view of the Trinity. They they view it, and i and this is kind of on my mind just because I was just at this conference that I went to and there was a debate between a Latter-day Saint and their view of the Trinity and a Christian, and their view that our view of the Trinity.
Comparing Christian and Latter-day Saint Views
00:27:07
Bruce Helgeson
Right.
00:27:07
Danny Price
It's very interesting because again, therere their their perspective is not what we have. Their perspective is it's, they could they call it all the Godhead, but there is a difference and they're totally different beings um
00:27:17
Bruce Helgeson
Mm-hmm.
00:27:18
Danny Price
They're with one same purpose and mission and, you know, and divine authority, so to speak, but um totally different personages, totally different beings.
00:27:18
Bruce Helgeson
Right.
00:27:27
Danny Price
And they together make up this council of the Godhead, which, you know, we would say is is heretical.
00:27:31
Bruce Helgeson
Mm-hmm.
00:27:31
Danny Price
And you can, and I can't get into that now, but I'll put some resources for you guys. But um it's very, it's very interesting.
00:27:37
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:27:39
Danny Price
This is, this is a big stumbling block for a lot of people. I feel like I'm with the Trinity and it's hard.
00:27:42
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah. Yeah. Right. and And that view of the is not traditional Christianity at all.
00:27:51
Danny Price
Correct. Correct.
00:27:53
Bruce Helgeson
So, you know, then when you mentioned like whether is it possible for Christ to let this cup pass from me, i mean, we have to remember and go back to prophecy again.
00:28:04
Bruce Helgeson
Like Isaiah 53, 5 says, he was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities, and by by his stripes we are healed. It's that reflecting
00:28:13
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:28:15
Bruce Helgeson
It's that foreshadowing, I should say, of the crucifixion.
00:28:17
Danny Price
Yep.
00:28:18
Bruce Helgeson
And did did Jesus know that?
00:28:18
Danny Price
Yep.
00:28:21
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah, i think he knew the words of the Father.
00:28:21
Danny Price
yeah
00:28:23
Bruce Helgeson
so
00:28:23
Danny Price
Yes.
00:28:24
Bruce Helgeson
you know, it's kind of intriguing.
00:28:25
Danny Price
Yes.
00:28:26
Bruce Helgeson
It's when you consider prophecy and all what Christ did, it's it's amazing. It fulfills itself.
00:28:34
Danny Price
That's really good. um
00:28:38
Danny Price
I think we'll move on to the next question because I feel like we, we didn't conquer that.
00:28:40
Bruce Helgeson
Go for it.
00:28:41
Danny Price
Like I said, I'll put some resources down below or Bruce, if you have anything you can, you want to send me, I'll, I'll put it in the description so you people can kind of do some of their own research.
00:28:41
Bruce Helgeson
Yep.
00:28:49
Danny Price
So
True Humility and Leadership
00:28:50
Danny Price
next question that I have. So, you know, you talked about, you know, Jesus being humble and and humbling himself. and That was one of the themes that you mentioned during the sermon. um So the question that I had, what is, what is true humility?
00:29:01
Danny Price
Are there any things about humility that we view inaccurately as a culture?
00:29:07
Danny Price
So yeah whatever whatever you think.
00:29:08
Bruce Helgeson
You know, right, right. I mean, true humility, I really do think it's ah it's an attitude of the heart when it comes down to that, because humility means that we take a posture that is selfless and not selfish, which is our human side, that or sinful, like that's walking in the flesh versus walking in the spirit kind of conversation right there.
00:29:37
Bruce Helgeson
So that attitude of selflessness, allowing ourselves to say whether in we're in a conversation with our spouse or a friend, and you have your agenda that you wanting you are wanting to push forth, but are you humble enough to actually listen to the other person to consider their viewpoint when do you already have the right way in your head or or you've got you've got a passion to do it a certain way and i think in the same same fashion um jesus did reflect that in his prayer in the garden it's that that humility factor of the heart
00:30:21
Bruce Helgeson
though he could have probably ran away you know um in his humanness, so to speak.
00:30:25
Danny Price
yeah
00:30:28
Bruce Helgeson
He did not do that because he took on the form of a a servant, so to speak, to fulfill the will of the Father. And when we think of our own agendas, I mean, to have humility in our lives, that really, when we express humility,
00:30:37
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:30:50
Bruce Helgeson
I think that opens the eyes of other people and opens the hearts of other people to really listen to what you have to say or how you respond to a situation.
00:31:01
Bruce Helgeson
if it's in humility versus prideful, a prideful push on your own agenda, what's going to be more receptive?
00:31:07
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:31:10
Bruce Helgeson
It's the humility factor. And, uh, I think that's a big, big part of it. Um, putting others first. I mean, when the the Philippians chapter two essentially is is really about just putting the needs of others before your own needs.
00:31:29
Bruce Helgeson
And that's essentially what Jesus modeled.
00:31:30
Danny Price
yeah
00:31:33
Danny Price
Yeah. What do you think about like, I mean, let's just bring it to Hebrew, I guess the average person in Hebrew, Utah. Um, do you think we have any preconceived notions about humility that are maybe inaccurate or wrong, um, or not biblical? And what would you, what would what would you say to that? Is there anything, I mean, I'm, I'm just kind of, um i don't have anything in my head. I'm just curious, like what you think, do we as a culture have the right view of humility?
00:32:01
Bruce Helgeson
Well, culturally speaking, the only thing that comes to mind, Danny, is
00:32:10
Bruce Helgeson
is is putting on a facade of humility to let others think that I'm really trying to trying to be humble, and yet it's kind of done in a way that I'm still going to try to get my own way.
00:32:25
Bruce Helgeson
i don't know if that makes sense.
00:32:26
Danny Price
Totally. No, that's totally, it totally makes sense.
00:32:27
Bruce Helgeson
i't I don't even know what i didn't even know how to put a name to that. Conceited maybe is a ah word that comes to mind.
00:32:34
Danny Price
Just, yeah, just like false, false humility. Like not, it's not humility, but it looks like it is.
00:32:37
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:32:39
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:32:40
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah, you're trying to portray yourself one way and yet your your heart, it goes back to the heart again, I think. It's your heart intention to really kind of work around that situation to get your own way.
00:32:52
Danny Price
Totally. Yeah.
00:32:53
Bruce Helgeson
I can't even think about it. an example, honestly, off the top of my head, but I really think it it comes down to the intentionality of the heart.
00:33:04
Bruce Helgeson
Is it really for the other person? Is it really to honor God? Or is it really to, you know, fulfill my own agenda? I think that's where it's at.
00:33:14
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:33:16
Danny Price
No, that's really good. um The only thing i would say, i'm trying to think of like if anything anything else to add to that. That was really good. is I've noticed that, and I don't know if this is a Christian perspective, or but it kind of ties into that like false humility. I think sometimes...
00:33:35
Danny Price
as people, we have we have a title, we have a responsibility in some kind of authority role, for example, like as a pastor or as a, um you know I work at a camp, as whatever it is.
00:33:40
Bruce Helgeson
Mm-hmm.
00:33:46
Danny Price
And I think sometimes we equate with humility with like an over overly pious or overly like self-deprecating kind of view. And there's like this there's this element of, yes, you you you view yourself lowly and esteem others higher than yourself.
00:34:05
Danny Price
But that doesn't mean that it's wrong to take a position to have a position of authority and to take it and to use that and to be a servant and to lead well. I think that's that's one thing that I think some people mis ah misunderstand is that thinking that leadership is somehow um incongruent with humility or that it doesn't work with humility. And it's like totally the opposite. Being a good leader is having a good, accurate view of yourself and um And then leading out of that servant, that servanthood and being being a strong leader is not, is not a bad thing.
00:34:36
Danny Price
And it's not acting is not humble. If you're, to you know, touting yourself and being like, Oh, I'm the greatest leader.
00:34:39
Bruce Helgeson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:34:41
Danny Price
That's totally, I'm not talking about that. I'm just talking about a good leader is someone who recognizes their ability and recognizes who they are and leads well, but also does it in a humble way. They're not incompatible things, I guess.
00:34:52
Danny Price
I just want to, I want to point that out. Cause I've heard, I've heard people say that of like, well, you just have to view yourself, you know, so low and never, never speak up or never say anything. And it's like, i totally understand not, you know, holding your tongue when you need to, that's, that's different.
00:35:06
Danny Price
But I don't think that that's the right view of humility.
00:35:07
Bruce Helgeson
right
00:35:08
Danny Price
Like you can be a leader and be humble at the same time. They're not, you know, and Jesus, like you said, is Jesus is the perfect example of that. Um, so just, just wanted to Throw that in there as a little bit of an ah little bit of another another thought, I guess.
00:35:26
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:35:26
Danny Price
Anything else you want to say about that before we fit finish?
00:35:26
Bruce Helgeson
And and perhaps possibly another.
00:35:29
Danny Price
Go ahead.
00:35:29
Bruce Helgeson
No, no. I was just going say that can be whole nother conversation in itself right there. You're talking leadership, right?
00:35:35
Danny Price
How to do that?
00:35:36
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:35:37
Danny Price
Yeah. How to do that. I will say, i will, share so I'll share one thing. This is really cool. This, again, this has to do with humility and like an accurate view of yourself. This is something that my, my boss was saying to me, we were doing, we were, do we do devos with ah our staff during the summer. This was last summer. And it was this little, this little word picture. And he actually drew it out on it, on a,
00:35:58
Danny Price
dry erase board, and I thought it was it was helpful. um So if if picture, if you will, like like in math, you know how there's like the greater than sign that's like a sideways V. So you have one line going up and one line going down. They join together.
00:36:12
Danny Price
at the at the end. So like, kind of like, um I'll do it for you on the camera, but you guys can't see it listening, but it's the greater than or less than symbol.
00:36:18
Bruce Helgeson
Yep.
00:36:19
Danny Price
So picture, if you will, you know, like the origination point is kind of like when you start as a Christian and the line downward is the view of yourself and the lower you see yourself and the view and like the line going up is your view of God and how high you see God.
00:36:34
Danny Price
As your view of God gets higher and bigger, your view of yourself also gets lower in the sense that you see yourself more accurately and what a sinner you are and how great God is. And so the more that you see yourself as a sinner, the more you're going to see God is like an amazing, amazing savior and vice versa. And it's just like this beautiful relationship and that gap is,
00:36:55
Danny Price
you know, is spanned by the cross. So your view of the cross gets bigger as you realize the huge gap in between yourself and God and what Jesus did to come like fill that gap. So the lower you see yourself, the more humble you see yourself, the greater you see God and vice versa, the greater you see God, the lower you see yourself. And so it's hard for you to have this really high view of yourself.
00:37:16
Danny Price
And you think you're, that you think you're the amazing. You think you're, you think you're the stuff you're it. and also think that God is big and great and amazing, it's like those aren't compatible with each other. so So it's like it almost requires you.
00:37:26
Bruce Helgeson
right yeah and i think that in that situation too you you're realizing how how grateful the gratitude of our hearts are much greater and and like oh my gosh i can't believe
00:37:27
Danny Price
So I thought that was cool. I thought that was a cool little thing about just humility.
00:37:37
Danny Price
Yes, exactly. Yes.
00:37:43
Bruce Helgeson
I'm worthy of this, you know? And so I totally think you're right there, Danny. That's awesome.
00:37:47
Danny Price
Yes. Oh, I'm going to, I'm going to cut this next question out. I'm sorry, guys. We're me and Bruce, me me and Bruce are, we're both talkers just for the sake of time.
00:37:52
Bruce Helgeson
Go for it. That's fine.
Sharing Faith Effectively
00:37:57
Danny Price
Um, question number five that I had, um, how do we, we, we reached the lost with Jesus. What does it look like to share your faith and boldly evangelize to people? Do we, do we share our faith to everyone we meet i regardless of the circumstances, or is there a particular way we're supposed to do it? What would, what would you say?
00:38:13
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah. I mean, I'll go for that latter part first. Like, irregardless, do we share a faith with everybody? i think it's a prayerful listening process, honestly.
00:38:25
Bruce Helgeson
You know, I don't think that there would be receptivity of just kind of spewing out scripture.
00:38:25
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:38:32
Bruce Helgeson
And, you know, I'm not the evangelist type of person that stands on a street corner. I can tell you that. Um, Although in my Campus Crusade years on a Daytona Beach in Florida, we were sent to do that.
00:38:44
Bruce Helgeson
I did not like that because I thought it was so intrusive.
00:38:45
Danny Price
m
00:38:49
Bruce Helgeson
i I really think it's a prayerful process of listening to the Lord and who is in your life right now. Reaching the lost is it starts with prayer.
00:39:00
Bruce Helgeson
If you have people that you, their names keep popping into your head, I believe that's the Holy Spirit speaking to you and tapping you saying, Hey, pray for this person or what can I do to serve this person?
00:39:14
Bruce Helgeson
I think having the opportunity to to show love, build a friendship, offer kindness and and offer, like yesterday, I went and asked my neighbor who hadn't talked to in about three, four weeks. And usually we talk every other day or so forth.
00:39:32
Bruce Helgeson
or so, excuse me.
00:39:33
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:39:33
Bruce Helgeson
And I'm like, he was trying to work on his, his ATV, his razor. And I'm like, Hey, do you need help? I'm not the mechanic, you know that, but I can help you clean your machine. Cause it's looking pretty dirty.
00:39:45
Bruce Helgeson
You know, I mean, just, just trying to enter into conversations with people and just having building a friendship so that you earn the right to be heard. I think that's a huge part of it.
00:39:55
Bruce Helgeson
And, and in, the in this, in this case, I mean,
00:39:56
Danny Price
yeah
00:40:00
Bruce Helgeson
Um, with this friend of mine, I mean, I've shared enough about our life and my story where I've been able to actually share my faith story and Lorraine's faith story.
00:40:11
Bruce Helgeson
Um, and with little snippets here and there, obviously, but I continue to pray for him and invite him to attend worship. Um, they've come, I think Easter and Christmas, but, um, that's about it.
00:40:25
Bruce Helgeson
And, and they've really been hurt by the religious culture. And i think that's one that's a barrier for a lot of people. And so I think that the, the relationship building process in order to have the right to be heard and to share your story, to share the gospel story is really a prayerful process.
00:40:47
Danny Price
Yeah, that's really good.
00:40:52
Danny Price
I think for me, um this is something actually, hold on, just drop something. Sorry. um I think for me, something that I've been working on or it's been on my heart more recently is being, being bold, not necessarily being abrasive.
00:41:08
Danny Price
I'm not saying that, but being more bold with my faith.
00:41:09
Bruce Helgeson
Right.
00:41:10
Danny Price
Um,
00:41:12
Bruce Helgeson
Yep.
00:41:12
Danny Price
which is hard. And I don't know if you don't, it sounds like you and you have some friends and other people I've struggled with this just because in my circle, a lot of my circle is Christians anyways. And so it's difficult.
00:41:21
Bruce Helgeson
Right. Yeah.
00:41:22
Danny Price
It feels like I really have to go out of my way to find people in my life that are not Christian.
00:41:27
Bruce Helgeson
Mm hmm.
00:41:27
Danny Price
Um, which I kind of feel guilty saying that, I guess, cause I'm like, but I mean, in reality, like my job, I'm surrounded by believers.
00:41:28
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah. a
00:41:33
Danny Price
My, our, all of our clientele is 90% believers, or,
00:41:38
Bruce Helgeson
Right. Right.
00:41:38
Danny Price
people that are also coming with the church. And it's like, it's kind of a given. some i don't i know they might not all be saved, but it's kind of a given that they're all coming with the church.
00:41:41
Bruce Helgeson
Mm-hmm.
00:41:45
Danny Price
not About 90% of our clientele here at Big Canyon. And then, you know, my groups and the people I hang out with and my free time is mostly spent around people that are believers. So it's hard for me to not really go out of my way.
00:41:58
Danny Price
But what I've tried to do more recently is be less... ambiguous about who I am and be a little bit more intentional about what people ask me things or talk when I'm talking, I'm not hiding that part of me. Um, and I feel like I've hidden it in the past at certain points, not because I'm necessarily ashamed, but I'm, because I almost don't want to, like you said, like, I don't want to inconvenience them. And I'm like, I'm trying to find a way to be purposeful, but then I'm also realizing that I'm using that as kind of a,
00:42:28
Danny Price
a facade to not do that because again I don't want to like I don't want to I don't want to intrude upon them or make them feel uncomfortable and I'm starting to realize like I just need to get over that I don't it's okay to a little to a certain degree not to be abrasive and you know I'm not saying I need to necessarily lead off every conversation with hey did you know that you're going to hell um or anything like that
00:42:48
Bruce Helgeson
That's a bad way to start. Ah.
00:42:50
Danny Price
But I want to, I know, but I want to be more bold. um i read a book by Greg Kokel called Tactics, and it talk it talks about how to talk to unbelievers and different people.
00:43:00
Danny Price
And he ah he used this analogy, and I always loved it, of putting a pebble in someone's shoe and asking questions that would put a pebble in their shoe. So to to kind of just ah explain this analogy, you meet someone and you take a pebble and you stick it in their in their shoe.
00:43:12
Bruce Helgeson
Right. Right. Yeah.
00:43:15
Danny Price
And for the rest of the day that they walk, you know they can still walk, it's fine, but that pebble will be bothering them and will be like they'll be like cognizant of like, there's ah there's something in my shoe. And kind of that idea of something that doesn't like leave them immediately after leave the conversation. Like you ask them something like, Hey, what are you, what is the purpose of your life? Like where, where are you going or what are you, what's your ultimate reality, whatever it is. And he had a bunch of examples, but I liked how you said asking questions and earning the right to be heard. Cause that definitely, that definitely falls in with that.
00:43:49
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:43:49
Danny Price
But yeah I don't know if you relate to that at all.
00:43:50
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:43:51
Danny Price
I just have a lot of people in my life that aren't Christian. It's it's tough.
00:43:53
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah. No, I totally understand that. In fact, that's one of the reasons I don't.
00:43:56
Danny Price
I'm sorry that are Christian. Sorry.
00:43:58
Bruce Helgeson
Right, right. I get it. Yep. You work at Big Canyon Bible Camp.
00:44:03
Danny Price
Yep.
00:44:03
Bruce Helgeson
And so it's it's it's tough. I mean, that's one reason why I don't tell people right away my occupation as a pastor. I don't want them to know that. because I want them to see me as a person that they can not be intimidated by.
00:44:16
Danny Price
hu
00:44:19
Bruce Helgeson
Because when people hear that I'm a pastor, you can see kind of like this, oh, I got to be careful with what I say right now. And that's actually one thing.
00:44:27
Danny Price
Interesting.
00:44:30
Bruce Helgeson
One reason why when I went in to get my teaching degree at Utah State, I felt called to ministry way back in 93, 94. And I did not want to be in ministry because I wanted to be in the real world where I could be an influence.
00:44:46
Bruce Helgeson
Anyway, I get into ministry and I put myself in positions where I'm not always around church people or Christians.
00:44:47
Danny Price
ha
00:44:54
Bruce Helgeson
because I want to be in the real world and be that person that might be salt and light in because they may not come through the doors if I'm not there. And if we can just think like our mission field is not just hanging out with Christians.
00:45:09
Bruce Helgeson
It's it's being in the lives of other people that we're naturally working with or our neighbors to. That's one of the reasons I was coaching and hockey for years. And it's one of the reasons I joined the chaplain team for Park City in Heber.
00:45:19
Danny Price
yeah
00:45:23
Bruce Helgeson
is because it gives me opportunities to be in in the community. And I think that's a big deal.
00:45:27
Danny Price
Yeah. No, that is a big deal. That's something that um yeah I'm getting more convicted about that. Not like I have shame about it. It's just more, like you said, like i want I want to be where the lost are to a certain degree.
00:45:34
Bruce Helgeson
No, right. Yeah.
00:45:39
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
Baptism's Meaning and Timing
00:45:40
Danny Price
So anyway anyways, um next question that I had was about baptism.
00:45:41
Bruce Helgeson
yeah
00:45:45
Danny Price
So if you were not here this last Sunday, it was it was just fantastic. We had baptism towards the end of the you know the very last service because we have three services at Mountain View. So after Bruce taught, we had Shane get up and he talked about baptism for a second. And then during, we had kind of had like a worship moment, like a worship, you know, like I think we played like three songs and the people that were, art you know, had already, you know, said they wanted to get baptized, came up and they all got baptized, which was really powerful. It was really cool. um I think 12 people got baptized or maybe it was more than that. I don't remember.
00:46:15
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:46:16
Danny Price
um So I just wanted to ask you, just from, you know, from a pastor standpoint and just see what you had, you know, had to say about some of these thoughts. So so what, what is baptism?
00:46:29
Danny Price
Um, what are the biblical reasons for baptism and when should somebody get baptized? Um, if you just want, you know, you can take any one of those combination of those questions. It's kind of like, i don't know if you just want to talk about it and spin on that for a while.
00:46:45
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah. Yeah. Um, so what is baptism? I mean, it's a public declaration that you choosing to be a Christ follower.
00:46:56
Bruce Helgeson
I mean, you're, you're again, i mean, it's like, yes, you, you give your life to Jesus. What's the next step? It's publicly declaring your faith. And here's, here's kind of a interesting fact. I mean, so I was baptized as an infant in the Lutheran church.
00:47:14
Danny Price
I did not know that.
00:47:14
Bruce Helgeson
And, you know, and so that's, that's something that we consider as religious, excuse me, Christian tradition in different Protestant churches and Catholic church.
00:47:25
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:26
Bruce Helgeson
So, however, that's not what MVF church, which is an evangelical free church holds to.
00:47:31
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:47:32
Bruce Helgeson
They hold to the practice that, that Jesus modeled for us in Mark chapter one, where yeah know, he was baptized by his cousin, John the Baptist. And so that complete submersion as somebody who has consciously made a decision to follow Christ and, you know, live their life for him in service, that's kind of like step two, essentially, after you you your heart has been transformed, the Holy Spirit enters you, now you become baptized as a sign of your your declaration to Jesus.
00:48:07
Bruce Helgeson
um The interesting thing is just out of just factual history, the difference in my ordination than with the Evangelical Covenant Church, which actually I think as a youth group kid, Pastor Shane attended a church that's similar to that.
00:48:23
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:48:24
Bruce Helgeson
And and the Evangelical Free Church, the difference is that in the covenant where I'm ordained in, they will baptize infants.
00:48:34
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:48:34
Bruce Helgeson
And they believe that either way, it's not what is. Baptism does not save you. Therefore, baptism, as far as when it, um, as it reflects on our salvation, that's not a salvation issue.
00:48:48
Bruce Helgeson
It's an act of obedience, whether it's on behalf of the parents doing it as an infant or you personally making a choice and then becoming baptized.
00:48:52
Danny Price
Uh-huh.
00:48:57
Bruce Helgeson
Um, they would view it as an infant, um, that baptism and you don't need to be baptized again, I'll tell you my story in a little bit. Um, but that baptism is what brought you to a point to give your life to Jesus. Okay. So that's one view.
00:49:16
Bruce Helgeson
And then there's the evangelical free view, which is kind of reflecting in Mark chapter one, Jesus model. I personally, I was baptized again because of that.
00:49:22
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:27
Bruce Helgeson
When I, when I got into youth ministry and my first year, I just could not, I could not shake the fact that I didn't have the choice to be baptized.
00:49:37
Bruce Helgeson
And it was a about a year struggle and conversation with my lead pastor.
00:49:37
Danny Price
Huh.
00:49:41
Bruce Helgeson
And I just wanted to model what I thought was more scriptural to my kids.
00:49:46
Danny Price
Interesting.
00:49:46
Bruce Helgeson
And yeah. And at the time we had four foster kids living with us and we were all at our Bible camp in Minnesota at the time. And even though it was a little hard for my my parents to be there and kind of swallow like, well, did we do something wrong? You know, I'm like, no, you didn't. But, you know, and so that's kind of an interesting.
00:50:06
Bruce Helgeson
dichotomy there too but um i honestly side more with the view of the evangelical free church where you become a believer and therefore now you publicly declare your faith by total immersion because it's that sign of dying to christ and then being raised up to new life as a person in christ a cleansing factor so that's that's my little spiel on that
00:50:24
Danny Price
Yeah, yeah. no that was that was great. Yeah, i've I've talked to some people about this. they call The technical term is paedo-baptism.
00:50:37
Danny Price
um
00:50:37
Bruce Helgeson
Right. Right. Right.
00:50:38
Danny Price
And i I still don't know exactly where I think, what where I line up with this. and Because I agree with you on like your definition of baptism.
00:50:46
Bruce Helgeson
Mm-hmm.
00:50:49
Danny Price
And I think that's that's worded great. I think people who do this, you know, do infant baptism, they, like you said, like this, it's like a, it's almost, in my mind, I think it's almost more like a dedication, like a child dedication than anything else.
00:51:02
Danny Price
It's like, I'm establishing this covenant, kind of like circumcision.
00:51:03
Bruce Helgeson
rome
00:51:05
Danny Price
Like i'm establishing this covenant
00:51:06
Bruce Helgeson
you Right.
00:51:08
Danny Price
with God, i can, I don't, I would never tell someone they weren't really baptized if they didn't do that, but I could also see like you, like your story, I could see why they would want to do like a public declaration, like almost feeling like they missed the chance to.
00:51:21
Bruce Helgeson
Right.
00:51:23
Danny Price
Um, but ah that, that, that, that's tough.
00:51:23
Bruce Helgeson
Right.
00:51:26
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah. Yeah. that's
00:51:27
Danny Price
That's tough.
00:51:29
Bruce Helgeson
I know it is. Yep. And so some people will say, okay, can I get baptized again? And I'm like, honestly, Shane and I both, we would say, you know, baptism once is it.
00:51:41
Bruce Helgeson
I mean, really, especially if you're consciously made a choice to follow Christ and then you become baptized then you might've been like, so you know, straying from Jesus for years or whatever.
00:51:42
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:51:50
Bruce Helgeson
And then you come back again. i really think that that baptism, it's almost like saying, well thept the Holy Spirit didn't really work in your first baptism, so you feel like I got to do it again.
00:52:03
Bruce Helgeson
and I don't think that's true at all.
00:52:03
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:52:05
Bruce Helgeson
But it's it's a like for me, it really is a process of really being in prayer about why you're doing this again, if you are in fact considering that.
00:52:17
Bruce Helgeson
Because I think the Holy Spirit, He does His work no matter what. and in your life and whether or not you were sprinkled or immersed or whatever. i just don't think that's a salvation issue at all.
00:52:30
Bruce Helgeson
Thief on the cross wasn't baptized, you know?
00:52:30
Danny Price
Nope.
00:52:34
Bruce Helgeson
And so i just think it's, it's really, ah it comes back to you again, i think a matter of the heart and your intentionality and and listening to what the Lord is really kind of speaking to you.
00:52:34
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:52:46
Danny Price
Yeah. No, I agree. And like you mentioned... you know, being a declaration a little bit, you know, I think when people get baptized in the Bible or even when verses that talk about it's always like repent and be baptized.
00:52:57
Danny Price
It's like a very visible, like I'm, I'm turning, I'm, I'm stopping my way of sin.
00:52:58
Bruce Helgeson
Right. There you
00:53:02
Danny Price
I'm turning my life um and putting my faith in Jesus. No, I like, I liked how you said that just the, I want.
00:53:07
Bruce Helgeson
go.
00:53:10
Bruce Helgeson
And that was peter's that was Peter's message in Acts chapter 10 again.
00:53:12
Danny Price
Yeah, exactly.
00:53:14
Bruce Helgeson
So that's very strong words.
00:53:16
Danny Price
I did. I did want to say too, and I liked how Shane said this on Sunday morning, in scripture, we see that when people come to faith in Jesus, I mean, you see this with like, for example, the jailer and and his family, when, you right after a Paul, I think it's, I think I'm pretty sure it's Paul and Silas are out of prison and his whole family gets baptized.
00:53:40
Danny Price
It's, it's a very immediate process. And I just wanted to just reinforce for any, if anyone's listening and maybe you're not baptized, you're confused about it. If you should be baptized, first of all, if you're a believer in Christ, I think you should.
00:53:53
Danny Price
I think it's very biblical. um If you were baptized previously in a different faith, for example, like if you were coming out of like the LDS church or something else, and that, I think that would be grounds for getting baptized again, um clearly.
00:54:04
Danny Price
But I did want to say like, once you've made that step and you've said, I'm putting my faith in Jesus and I'm repenting. I think that's like, you just do it then. i don't think there's anything that would say, no, you need to be, your your life needs to look like this way, or you you need to be, you need to take these,
00:54:21
Danny Price
seminary classes or go to church for 20, once you've gone to church 20 times, then you unlock this ability to get baptized. Like there's, I don't see any of that in scripture. And I want to just tell that to people, if you're listening and you're like, should I get baptized?
00:54:34
Danny Price
And you haven't been baptized and you believe, and you've put your faith and believe in God, I would say, yes, do it. um You don't need to wait. Obviously, if you want to wait to do it in front of your loved ones or something, i think that's, that's fine.
00:54:40
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:54:45
Danny Price
um I know like we do certain baptism Sundays. i don't think there's anything wrong with that, but don't wait for a I don't know what the word would be special unlocking of your spirituality to a certain, you know, to a certain level or hierarchy.
00:54:59
Bruce Helgeson
Right.
00:54:59
Danny Price
And you're like, once I've reached level 13 on my, on my spiritual journey, then I can be, but it doesn't work that way. And I don't think that's biblical at all. So.
00:55:07
Bruce Helgeson
Right. In fact, I think, um, You mentioned, I think you were referring to the Roman centurion, Cornelius and his family when they believed in that his household was baptized.
00:55:19
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:55:19
Bruce Helgeson
But I think that's a that's a great declaration of, you know, when am I to be baptized? As soon as you can. I mean, really, if you've made that decision, i mean, why not do it then?
00:55:35
Bruce Helgeson
And I totally agree with you to wait to when you think that you've achieved a status of spirituality and then you can be baptized, I totally think that's not the way to view it.
00:55:46
Bruce Helgeson
Um, I think as I become baptized and therefore I can't wait to see now how the Holy spirit starts working in me to kind of talk about how you have that greater than or less than thing of seeing how less than I become while I watch to see how greater God is.
00:56:04
Bruce Helgeson
I think that's the growing, um,
00:56:04
Danny Price
hmm
00:56:07
Bruce Helgeson
The growth in our spiritual journey is because obviously letting Christ be Lord of our lives, but I think the baptism part can initiate a lot of that, you know, Holy Spirit power to really kind of grow in our faith.
00:56:16
Danny Price
yeah yeah Yeah. And it's like, I mean, it's undeniable. Like, I mean, nothing brings tears to my eyes faster than watching people get baptized.
00:56:29
Danny Price
Like it's, it's a pretty powerful moment. And I know that, I know that like you said, baptism is not like, that's not your salvation only if you get baptized.
00:56:31
Bruce Helgeson
yeah
00:56:37
Danny Price
Um, but again, just that, like that visualization of being born again, um and being raised with Christ. Like it's a, it's, it's really powerful. So, I mean, it, that it's a pretty consistent tearjerker for me.
00:56:48
Danny Price
Um, like even this last Sunday, like it's hard to hold that in when you're watching all these people, um,
00:56:49
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
00:56:53
Danny Price
that have made that commitment and are doing it in front of people and also putting their faith in Jesus.
00:56:55
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah, young
00:56:57
Danny Price
You're just like, wow, this is, this is really cool. So, um,
00:57:00
Bruce Helgeson
young and old.
00:57:01
Danny Price
I know it's, it was really cool. There was a lot. Yeah. For those of you who weren't there is very, very, very cool. um Last question. ah we're going be over time. It's fine. It's fine. um This is a, this is ah a question from Zach Kent.
00:57:11
Bruce Helgeson
that. notice that
00:57:12
Danny Price
I just wanted to end that, um end with this, with his question. There's a lot here. I'm going to read it. I did Zach. I did cut out a couple of of like the mini questions within this larger question, just so that we could get to it all. I'm going to read it. So this is again from Zach Kent. Bruce shared that he had had multiple supernatural encounters regarding healing.
00:57:29
Danny Price
I always enjoy hearing people's experiences with God's power. Can we hear more about those experiences? How have those experiences shaped you and your view of God? Are these tip types of experiences available to only those with certain gifts, or are they available to all who are indwelt with the Holy Spirit? How do you see these issues? And i guess when he's saying issues, more like how you see these questions being part of God's program from MBF in the future?
00:57:53
Danny Price
So whatever you want tackle there, there's a lot there.
00:57:53
Bruce Helgeson
Gotcha. Yeah.
00:57:56
Danny Price
We're not going to probably get to everything on everything on that, but just, yeah, maybe share you some of your stories or what you think and we can
00:57:56
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah. Right. Right.
Personal Healing and Spiritual Gifts
00:58:01
Danny Price
kind of go from there.
00:58:01
Bruce Helgeson
Well, just real, and the stories probably kind of answer some of these questions here too. Um, and it's, it's only been twice that I've had, uh, had healing.
00:58:12
Bruce Helgeson
Um, and, and both were after i was on trip to Ethiopia with our mission team. It was probably two weeks after I returned from my second trip.
00:58:22
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:58:28
Bruce Helgeson
And I was preaching on a Sunday and i had intense intestinal stomach pains that it felt like somebody who was stabbing me continuously with a knife.
00:58:41
Bruce Helgeson
And I was trying to preach and I had water tearing up in my eyes and I finally got through the last prayer. Amen.
00:58:49
Bruce Helgeson
And a team of of some of my small group leadership team, our lead pastor said, are you okay? And they thought I was going to faint or fall. And I was barely just, and I was having a hard time breathing.
00:58:49
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:59:05
Bruce Helgeson
They brought me to the front row, gathered about eight or nine people and started praying for me. And, uh, I, I, all I remember is, um, is people laying their hands on me and pastor Paul, our lead pastor was there and he started, he, he, everyone had their hands on my shoulders.
00:59:23
Danny Price
Uh-huh.
00:59:27
Bruce Helgeson
Paul placed his hand on my stomach. And when he did that, it was like, this blast of heat just went through my body. And I'm like, I, I gasped. I was like, Oh,
00:59:40
Bruce Helgeson
Right when that happened and I opened my eyes and and Paul stared right at me like, what's wrong with you? And in my head, i said, Lord, is that you? Are you healing me?
00:59:53
Bruce Helgeson
And I had that conversation in my head and, you know, I let people finish their prayers and you can see the confusion of Paul's face as much as I probably look confused to him as well.
01:00:05
Bruce Helgeson
Amen.
01:00:05
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
01:00:05
Danny Price
Mm-hmm. Hmm.
01:00:06
Bruce Helgeson
ain' men After they said amen, this woman said to me, did you feel something? And I'm like, yeah. I said, right when Paul put his hand on my stomach, I felt a blast of heat go through me. And Paul was like, really? and And his response was, I don't have the gift of healing.
01:00:26
Bruce Helgeson
And I said, well, kind of feel like you might have just gotten it or it got the Lord gave it to you for now, whatever it is. And so I would say, you know, yes, the Holy Spirit gives spiritual gifts, including healing.
01:00:41
Bruce Helgeson
And that was an example, I believe. i don't know if Paul's ever had a healing opportunity after that, but I believe that Paul, given the gift of healing at that point in time, I literally did not have any pain until i got back from the next trip from Ethiopia again. and I ended up having surgery.
01:01:03
Bruce Helgeson
And, um, my surgeon was, um, he was in my small group. And, um, so I went in the middle of the night, I was thrown up and Lorraine brought me to the doctor, to the ER.
01:01:18
Bruce Helgeson
Um, they said I have a mass in my stomach, uh, from, uh, I shouldn't say ultrasound, an MRI, excuse me. And, uh,
01:01:26
Danny Price
Yeah.
01:01:27
Bruce Helgeson
So within about six hours, i was going into exploratory surgery and I'm like, and and I was in massive pain like it was before. And so the weird factor is that I never had a problem until after my other trip to Ethiopia, which I don't understand.
01:01:44
Bruce Helgeson
Not saying that there's any hocus pocus or whatever, but this is just what happened. And before I went into the surgery, the doctor who was in my small group prayed over me.
01:01:58
Bruce Helgeson
as I was being wheeled in and i remember just being calm and comforted. And four hours later, I woke up from surgery, two other doctors who were my small group leadership team at, at, um, where I was at and my surgeon, all three came in with the MRIs showing me the mass.
01:02:13
Danny Price
So
01:02:23
Bruce Helgeson
And they both said, or they all said, uh, Bruce, we, we all saw saw the same picture. It's right here. And the surgeon told me, we went through your intestines three times and could not find anything.
01:02:36
Bruce Helgeson
And so we sewed you up and he said, i said, well, what are you saying?
01:02:37
Danny Price
so cool
01:02:43
Bruce Helgeson
And, and he said, either we all read this wrong, but you see right here, it's there. He said, I really believe that you were healed before we got in there. And I'm like, okay, I'll take it.
01:02:53
Danny Price
Yeah.
01:02:56
Bruce Helgeson
And have ever since then, i have never had a problem with any any kind of pain like that ever again. So the only two situations that I can explain personally, but yeah, the Holy Spirit gives gifts at certain times.
01:03:08
Danny Price
yeah
01:03:11
Bruce Helgeson
And from that experience, it it showed me that you know when when some when scripture speaks of when someone is sick, call on the elders of the church, anoint them with oil, pray over them for the forgiveness of their sins and for their healing.
01:03:27
Danny Price
Yeah.
01:03:27
Bruce Helgeson
Like I really truly believe that's a total direction from scripture that the church doesn't do enough.
01:03:39
Bruce Helgeson
and And I think that's a challenge for me is that I feel personally when someone expresses you know that kind of a situation or you know, fear or whatever, but the need for prayer anointing with oil, I think that's something we need to engage in more.
01:03:52
Danny Price
yeah
01:03:57
Danny Price
That's no, I would agree with that. um Yeah, I think irregardless of wherever you stand and whether you're a cessationist and you believe the gifts have ceased or you don't believe that and you're continuationist and you believe there still are the gifts.
01:04:09
Bruce Helgeson
Sure.
01:04:11
Danny Price
I think even people who would be the most strong, like, hey, there's the gifts for that for that time in Acts and for that time only. I think everyone believes in, um I gotta be careful I say this, everyone always makes fun of me because I say it like Shane, miracles, miracle, miracle, miracle.
01:04:18
Bruce Helgeson
Right.
01:04:25
Danny Price
i don't know how to say it. But everyone who believes believes in those. And I think we we pray expectantly and asking God to heal people.
01:04:33
Bruce Helgeson
Absolutely.
01:04:35
Danny Price
I don't think there's anywhere in scripture that says, oh, you need to not pray for those things or limit yourself by praying for those.
01:04:41
Bruce Helgeson
Yes.
01:04:43
Danny Price
So if I was gonna encourage people in Mountain View, it'd be pray boldly. Um, ask, you know, ask, ask God for, ask God for healing, um, both for yourself, but for others too.
01:04:48
Bruce Helgeson
Absolutely.
01:04:53
Danny Price
I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Um, and I, I did, I, and I would only, the only other thing I would say too with that, and you did mention this is that, um, when you were talking about, you know, having, i think some people, certain people have gifts, um, and giftings.
01:04:55
Bruce Helgeson
No. No, that's why. this
01:05:09
Danny Price
And I'm still working out how I feel about, you know, what what what are what spiritual gifts and how does it show up and who has what gifts and do you have multiple gifts? I'm still working through some of that with my with myself, but I would make a big point of the gifts in the sense of these big supernatural gifts are not, um they're evidence of God working, but they're not an evidence, they're not the only evidence of you having the Holy Spirit. I don't think,
01:05:38
Danny Price
that you need to feel pressure or feel bad about yourself and say, well, I don't have these gifts, whatever they may look like, prophecy, tongues, healing, um the more the more extra, and I don't want to say extravagant, but more um expressive and obvious gifts.
01:05:38
Bruce Helgeson
right
01:05:56
Danny Price
If you don't have those, it does not mean that you don't have the Holy Spirit. So I would just encourage believers, you know pray expectantly, pray for healing, but don't feel bad or feel guilty if you pray for someone to be healed and they're not healed, don't take that to mean that now you don't have the Holy spirit in you because you didn't pray or you didn't pray earnestly enough, or you're not a good enough person when you prayed.
01:06:00
Bruce Helgeson
Correct. Yeah. Yeah.
01:06:16
Danny Price
Cause again, all those things are dismissed in scripture as it's not true. um You know, or your sin is too great or the person you're praying for sin is too great. I mean, even when Jesus healed the man, and when the four, his four friends lay him through the ceiling, you know, they they asked, they asked that question. um Or no, is is that is that one or is the, which which which one is that Maybe I'm misremembering.
01:06:38
Danny Price
There is a story where the the apostles are like, was it was it the sins of it of him or his family? Is that why he, I think it was a blind man. Now that I'm saying that I'm i'm mixing up my script, my script, my I'm mixing i mixing up my scripture together.
01:06:45
Bruce Helgeson
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Correct. Yeah, you got it.
01:06:49
Danny Price
Everybody discount what I say. I'm so sorry. um But Jesus is like, no, it's that the glory of God, you know, if it's for the glory of God that, and I can't remember the exact scripture. I should look this up beforehand, but yeah. just remembering people for reminding people to remember things like that in scripture and don't, don't read too far into it. If you pray for someone, it doesn't happen or if it does.
01:07:07
Danny Price
Um, so anyways.
01:07:07
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
01:07:10
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah, you know, i think you're that's a ah very good point that you make there, Danny. We don't do the healing, though we may have a gift of healing. It's still the Lord that does the healing through us.
01:07:20
Danny Price
Hmm.
01:07:23
Bruce Helgeson
And I think that's, and and to use our gif and gifts in a humble fashion like that, whether we' it's a gift of speaking in tongues or healing in particular, those kind of wondrous signs,
01:07:36
Bruce Helgeson
I think that's something that that that humility factor we need to keep in check. Because in those wondrous signs or gifts, it can be easily to be prideful about that.
01:07:47
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
01:07:49
Bruce Helgeson
And I think that's where lot of times, like if you see televangelists, like, I think that's why people just kind of, you know, put their hands up in those situations, because, you know, it's been shown in sometimes improper ways.
01:08:04
Bruce Helgeson
So.
01:08:04
Danny Price
Oh, totally.
01:08:05
Danny Price
Yeah. There's definitely an abuse of abuse of that and an abuse of hope because if someone's really, really sick and they want to get healed and you're guaranteeing that you can do this and you will heal them, um,
01:08:07
Bruce Helgeson
yes
01:08:19
Danny Price
it's incredibly powerful.
01:08:20
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah.
01:08:20
Danny Price
And then if people get let down in that moment, it's also incredibly, incredibly devastating for their faith. Um, I think we see that in times where it's been, when it's been abused, but let's not make the abuses.
01:08:26
Bruce Helgeson
Absolutely.
01:08:29
Danny Price
i would just encourage people just because there's been an abuse doesn't mean that there's not still, um, got to work in some of those areas. So, yeah. Um,
01:08:39
Bruce Helgeson
You
01:08:40
Danny Price
We're kind of over time. Anything else you want to add to as we wrap up? Any other burning burning thoughts in your mind?
01:08:45
Bruce Helgeson
got
01:08:46
Danny Price
Cool. Awesome. Well, thanks for talking.
01:08:48
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah. No, man, I just think Yeah.
01:08:49
Danny Price
This was a fun chat.
01:08:51
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah. I just think you you do a great job with this and it was a pleasure to have to chat with you for sure.
01:08:56
Danny Price
Yeah.
01:08:56
Bruce Helgeson
For sure.
01:08:57
Danny Price
This is so fun. um Even though we're over time.
01:08:59
Bruce Helgeson
I'll just say, I'll just say, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll just say, yeah, sure. You betcha. Just so, uh, you know, you did my scan and a little slang there, but thank you for your time.
01:09:10
Bruce Helgeson
Appreciate it, Danny.
01:09:10
Danny Price
Yeah, this was this was so fun. Thanks for listening, everyone. um I know i had said we'll be back with Shane this this week. I didn't realize that Bruce was teaching. i Bruce, am I right? Is Shane teaching next week on Sunday?
01:09:22
Danny Price
Is that right?
01:09:22
Bruce Helgeson
This coming Sunday, he is.
01:09:23
Danny Price
This coming in Sunday he is.
01:09:23
Bruce Helgeson
Yep.
01:09:24
Danny Price
Okay, so then we'll probably be back with Shane next week.
01:09:25
Bruce Helgeson
Got it.
01:09:26
Danny Price
A couple quick announcements, or a I guess a quick announcement. um, Easter, if you guys are listening and maybe you're, I don't know, I don't know who listens to this. I think most people are from Mountain View, but then I'm getting these numbers coming in and I'm like, I, there's, there can't, everyone's from Mountain no way.
01:09:41
Danny Price
So, um, if you are looking for a church to go to on Easter, um, there's lots of good churches in the area.
01:09:42
Bruce Helgeson
but
01:09:47
Danny Price
Um, I would really encourage you to go to Mountain View. We have one service in Bruce. Is it, it's at 10. Is that right? 10 o'clock.
01:09:52
Bruce Helgeson
Correct. 10 o'clock.
01:09:53
Danny Price
10 o'clock at Wasatch High School. There's going to be signage everywhere. We're meeting in the in the auditorium. um So if you're looking for a place to go to church on Sunday, first of all, come to Mountain View. and We have three services at our building. But then also for Easter service, we're not at our normal building. We're at the high school just because we can't do... We're to have to do like five or six services for Easter. It going to be crazy. And we're going to one big service.
01:10:17
Danny Price
So if you're looking for a place to come, I just want to get that out there. We're still a couple weeks out, but... um be pretty awesome to have you guys there. We're trying to fill that building up. I think we're going to max it out, um which is, which would be so cool, but it's going to be so fun to have everyone part of the MVF community all in one room at the same time.
01:10:33
Danny Price
So very exciting.
01:10:35
Bruce Helgeson
Yeah, vote and those listening, invite a friend.
01:10:38
Danny Price
Yes. Invite had a friend. Shane, you know, Shane doesn't hold back on the gospel. We want other people to hear the gospel. So anyways, appreciate you guys all listening.
01:10:46
Bruce Helgeson
Absolutely.
01:10:47
Danny Price
Thanks for tuning in. I hope you guys enjoyed it and we will catch you guys next week. Bye-bye.