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Wisdom at Work | Episode 45
32 Plays13 days ago
Danny and Shane discuss work and how we can exhibit wisdom in the workplace. They discuss women at work, money and a few other hot topics.
Sermon from MVF https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wisdom-in-our-work/id1667700510?i=1000762288504
Scripture References
Genesis 2
Galatians 4
Proverbs (various on sloth, work, and the sluggard/ant)
Jeremiah 29:11
Romans 8:28
Titus 2
Eohesians 5
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Episode 45
00:00:32
Danny Price
everyone. Welcome to episode 45 of the Table Talk Discussions podcast. Here with Shane, we're in our series in Proverbs, just kind of Going back over the sermon. So again, I put it in the link last week and I'm to start doing that. But if you have not listened to the sermon, it it probably just makes more sense to listen to that first. And you again, i have and umm I'm sure we have listeners, people who are not attending Mountain View or maybe you're attending Mountain View kind of sporadically and you're missing some of the sermons. So hopefully that's an easier way for you just to kind of feel like you're still being plugged in and you're getting what we're talking about. Because, and I've said this before, so many times,
00:01:09
Danny Price
these questions and these, you know, the direction of this podcast and each episode, it's so dependent on, you know, whatever I found interesting or other people, you know, when they send questions, what they found interesting.
Focus on Sermon 'Wisdom in our Work'
00:01:19
Danny Price
And so we're not always capturing the full breadth of what the Bible is talking about in this area. And also maybe not even, you know, the sermon.
00:01:26
Danny Price
So Shane, you know, the sermon is totally different than what we're discussing in the sense of, you know, we' we're like micro zooming in on certain things. Would you say that's fair, Shane, to say that? Yeah.
00:01:36
Shane
Yeah, no, I would definitely say it's fair.
00:01:36
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:01:37
Shane
You don't have to listen to it, do but it definitely gives you a at least ah like why we're talking about these and what some biblical thing, you know, the the questions are spurred from it, I guess.
00:01:48
Shane
This is way I would
00:01:50
Danny Price
Yeah. I just wanted to give people fair warning.
00:01:52
Shane
say it.
00:01:53
Danny Price
I know most people know that, but anyways.
00:01:55
Shane
yeah
00:01:56
Danny Price
But yeah. So we're still in Proverbs. This is week, who is this, week two or three? This was week two in Proverbs.
00:02:03
Shane
Yeah.
00:02:05
Danny Price
And what was the title officially the sermon?
00:02:07
Shane
um Wisdom in our work.
00:02:08
Danny Price
Remind me. Wisdom in our work. Is there anything, before we just get into the questions, is there anything you wanted to just review from the sermon? Anything that didn't make it in or anything interesting that you're just on your mind?
00:02:20
Shane
Um, actually the only thing that I kind of was going to hit on is being asked in a question. Um, and Zach's, uh, one of the questions we had turned in from Zach.
00:02:28
Danny Price
OK.
00:02:30
Shane
So.
00:02:30
Danny Price
OK. OK, so that's perfect. Good job, Zach. It's always nice when the questions when questions kind of hit where you were going to go anyway. So i I love that. So first question um comes from Paul Deaton. And this this is kind of overall in the series.
00:02:45
Danny Price
And I thought it it'd go well as a first question, just talking about wisdom in general. So I'm just going to read it. Here we go.
Discerning God's Wisdom vs Personal Desires
00:02:51
Danny Price
How do people see God imparting wisdom in their lives? And how do we discern wisdom from God versus what we feel or desire to do?
00:03:01
Shane
That's a really good question. I would say it's one that gets debated a lot among Christians. um You know, um i guess I would say, first of all, it we it there again, I know we say this over and over and over again, but it has to go back to scripture, right? Like,
00:03:22
Shane
it If anything is not from scripture and we can't clearly say, Hey, this is scripture point to this, then it's probably not something that is from God.
00:03:30
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:03:34
Shane
Um, but, um, at the same time, even, even that, right. We, we get to situations that we want to do something we think would be the best thing.
00:03:46
Shane
And then we question it, right. We, we wonder, we, we, we're constantly like, is i is this really from God? um And I think ah most people – um struggle with that.
00:04:00
Shane
Uh, I know, you know, I have such a way, I had a pretty big situation, this last year. I mean, you know about it, Danny, about this, this little tiny home thing we built in our backyard, you know, this, this for, to help someone out.
00:04:12
Danny Price
Yep. Yeah.
00:04:16
Shane
And then they ended up not going to be using it. And so all of a sudden, you know, it was worked out where financially that would them using, it was going to kind of, pay for it.
00:04:26
Shane
And then all sudden I'm like, well, now I'm stuck in this whole thing. And I really, truly felt like God was saying I should do this.
00:04:31
Danny Price
okay
00:04:35
Shane
and then I'm halfway into and I'm like, well, I'm really questioning. that um However, even that, I look back on and go, you know what?
00:04:41
Danny Price
yeah
00:04:47
Shane
It still, it caused me a lot of stress and it, it was definitely a challenge for me, but, um but I still go, you know what? God's using it and it, it could in the long run work out even better.
00:05:03
Shane
So I'm, I'm kind of in a place now where I'm like just trusting. Okay, well I'm just going trust that was from God. Maybe even not every little thing, the way we did it was exactly the way God wanted us to do it.
00:05:13
Shane
But, um but we were, we were seeking it. um So I guess all that to say, there's going to be lots of times you think you're in it, in God's wisdom. um And I think you do your best to stay with God's word as much as you can.
00:05:28
Shane
um
00:05:29
Danny Price
hey
00:05:29
Shane
And you seek counsel from godly people. um And oftentimes that counsel from godly people to me means people that aren't going to, because I know godly people that are just going to agree with what I say still. Yeah.
00:05:42
Shane
You know, as long as I'm not saying something crazy.
00:05:42
Danny Price
Yeah, yeah.
00:05:44
Shane
um So I try to seek counsel from godly people who maybe have a different way of thinking than I do, um if that makes sense, and people who I know will be praying for it.
00:05:52
Danny Price
Yeah, yeah.
00:05:54
Shane
But um yeah, I mean, off the hand offhand, that's what I have for that one. What what would you say?
00:05:59
Danny Price
Yeah, I i agree. i think the the thing with God's wisdom is, you know, God's wisdom is always right. You know, his ways are right. And I think there's times where the godly wise thing to do, it's not going to yield the results you would want right away.
00:06:16
Danny Price
kind of like what you were saying, but the butterfly effect of that later on is for his purposes.
00:06:17
Shane
Mm-hmm.
00:06:20
Danny Price
And I think people, it's you know, it's the verse 20, you know, on Jeremiah 29, 11, um i to pull it up so I read it verbatim, but I pretty much have it me memorized. um For I know of the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans to prosper you, not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
00:06:37
Danny Price
And people will will will read that and they'll say, well, you know God has good plans for me. So if I'm living, you know and if I'm making wise choices, i think people can easily apply that and go, things are going out for me.
00:06:50
Danny Price
And if i just as long as I'm just obeying God and following God, things are going to go well with me.
00:06:50
Shane
Uh-huh.
00:06:54
Danny Price
And I think, unfortunately, you know God is working things together for our good to them that love God. And you again, then you have that other verse, that to our call to according to his purpose. I think what people mistake is that God is going to bring himself glory in these things. And that's not a selfish thing. That's like a good thing. And
00:07:16
Danny Price
our earthly benefit is not necessarily always in that purview. So sometimes you might be making a, a godly choice or a godly wisdom choice. And it's not going to like, it's not like, I'm not saying that every time you make a, a hard decision or a a wise choice in God's mind, it's going to like jujitsu into this. Oh, but then when I was 80 years old, I won the lottery and it it was all because of this. It's like, that's just not how it works. Um,
00:07:40
Danny Price
sometimes a godly choice, it butterflies the effect into eternity. I guess that's the bottom line of what I'm saying. And it benefits you in the long run because it's benefiting God. And I think we have to be comfortable going, you know what?
00:07:49
Shane
Yeah. It's good.
00:07:52
Danny Price
that's That's a wise choice. And even though it might it might not benefit me, like for you, for example, you know the person who's living in the tiny shed now-ish, it's benefiting. And it's ah it's an amazing situation.
00:08:02
Shane
Yep.
00:08:04
Danny Price
And that situation might not ever you know financially bless you. And youre that shed is to be
00:08:09
Shane
Yeah. And we had no idea about that being a possibility when we first started.
00:08:10
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:08:13
Shane
So...
00:08:13
Danny Price
Exactly.
00:08:14
Shane
um Yeah. and And you're right. Yeah. Probably will never financially bless me. um But there's different. First of all, that's the other thing. Oftentimes we look at it needs to be a financial blessing and we forget.
00:08:25
Shane
No, there's a lot of blessings in life, even when it counts. Even though it's a financial commitment. the blessing isn't always financial that we get.
00:08:32
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:08:34
Danny Price
Exactly.
00:08:35
Shane
um You know?
00:08:35
Danny Price
That's fair. Yeah.
00:08:36
Shane
Yeah. So that's an important thing. And then, you know, another thing I was, I was trying to remember it when we were taught, when I was given my answer, but um the third thing I've heard about, not besides the council and God's word, the third thing that I've heard people talk about, the which I think is really good. If you're going to talk about it as God's wisdom is when you're seeking God's wisdom,
00:08:58
Shane
is the decision, when you look at the decision, are you looking for a us a self-serving answer or are you looking for a sacrificial answer?
00:09:12
Danny Price
Hmm. Yeah.
00:09:12
Shane
Usually if you're looking for a self-serving answer, it's probably not God's wisdom. um
00:09:17
Danny Price
yeah
00:09:17
Shane
Now there's nothing wrong with a benefit coming from it, but if you're looking for what's my benefit in it, Usually it's, it's not God's wisdom.
00:09:27
Shane
In fact, I actually, I think I would just say it isn't God's wisdom if that's what you're looking for.
00:09:30
Danny Price
Yeah, no. Yeah, exactly.
00:09:34
Shane
So.
00:09:34
Danny Price
So yeah, I just, I just want to be careful. I think some people are like, well, you'll know if it benefits, starts benefiting you. If it that, that was God's wisdom all along. And I'm, it's hard. It's that's, that's really difficult. And I do think that's kind of what goes going back to Paul's question.
00:09:46
Danny Price
Like, how do you know what's God's wisdom versus what's your wisdom or just what you're feeling or like desiring to do? And that's a really tough question because,
00:09:54
Shane
Yeah.
00:09:55
Danny Price
Hopefully, as you become a Christ follower, what you feel and desire to do is more and more in line with what God wants you to do. um But it's not always, and it's can be and you can be tricked and deceive just you know deceived, and it's difficult.
00:10:02
Shane
Yeah.
00:10:06
Danny Price
So that's ah that's a really good question. I don't know if we answered it but it was really good.
00:10:10
Shane
Well, and even when you say, even when you say, is it what we feel or desire?
00:10:10
Danny Price
I think we did our best.
00:10:14
Shane
Like when Jesus went to the cross, that was the wisdom of God, but it wasn't what he desired to do at that moment. It wasn't what he felt. It it wasn't the self-serving thing.
00:10:22
Danny Price
yeah's that's true.
00:10:23
Shane
Right. So, you know, oftentimes you are not going to, your feelings are not going to want to do.
00:10:24
Danny Price
Yeah, that's true.
00:10:31
Shane
the the wise thing. Your feelings are going to, you know, when we when we feel trapped or scared or nervous or we have anxiety, our feelings usually push us towards self-preservation and things that we feel like we can do to protect ourselves.
00:10:47
Shane
And that is generally not God's wisdom.
00:10:48
Danny Price
Right. Uh huh.
00:10:49
Shane
So we've got to be really careful um off of even working off of feelings. And I'm not saying feelings are bad all the time, but man, we do have to remember how much they can dictate us in bad bad directions
00:10:57
Danny Price
ahha
00:11:02
Danny Price
No, it's really true. So great, great question, Paul. So it's a, it's something that we everyone wrestles with, I guess.
00:11:08
Shane
yeah absolutely
00:11:09
Danny Price
So hopefully that gave a little bit of just insight and and clarity. Yeah. Shane had a definitely had a good answer. All right.
Gender Roles in Proverbs' Teachings
00:11:15
Danny Price
Next question. This is my question. Just fair warning. I'm not trying to catch any flack for this. It's just, i it came to my mind and tonight it's an interesting question. um So hear me on this.
00:11:25
Danny Price
If you're listening, don't get all, you know, don't pull it up, put up walls. The second you hear my question here, what I'm trying to say here. all Right.
00:11:31
Shane
yeah Wait till we give an answer. Then put up your wall.
00:11:32
Danny Price
Yeah. Is it?
00:11:33
Shane
I'm just kidding. no um I would say all the proverbs apply to men and women.
00:11:34
Danny Price
Yeah, there you go. Is it biblical to work if you're a woman? Is the wife to only be working in the house? Do all the proverbs about work apply to a woman just like they apply to a man?
00:11:45
Danny Price
right. Hit me.
00:11:49
Shane
um I think that then it matters how we apply them. You know, it's a little bit different.
00:11:54
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:11:55
Shane
um Well, when I say they all apply to men and women, actually, Proverbs 31 only applies to women.
00:12:02
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:12:04
Shane
I mean, obviously men can, can look to it and there's things to be gleaned, but it is written about, ah about a woman.
00:12:10
Danny Price
Right.
00:12:12
Shane
In fact, most, a lot of churches have like a Proverbs 31 women's ministry or, um you know, I know we have a thing for, I think it's fifth and sixth grade girls called glow girls.
00:12:23
Shane
And it's, um it's, kind of, they build most the principles off of Proverbs 31. So, you know, and it, Proverbs 31 talks about women working outside the field.
00:12:38
Shane
I mean, outside the home, it says she considers a field and buys it.
00:12:40
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:12:42
Shane
She plants a vineyard. She makes linen garments and sells them. So, you know, there's obvious some idea that, that women, there's nothing wrong with women working outside the home.
00:12:53
Shane
Now, that said, um you know, if we read the the whole of Scripture, we also get the the idea, and actually even most of Proverbs 31, even in Proverbs 31, we still get the idea that while, yes, there's nothing wrong with that, there there is a difference in kind of the way ah a husband and a wife do.
00:13:20
Shane
Engage with the workplace, I guess is how yeah I would, I would say that, um, you know, the Bible talks a lot about, you know, the women, you know, uh, training up other younger women, um the, the taking care of the home, that kind of thing.
00:13:23
Danny Price
Yeah, sure.
00:13:40
Shane
So, um, I would say that bottom line that Bible does not in any way prohibit it from working outside, prohibit women from working outside the home. But at the same time, the idea would be that they prioritize, um their home and family that that's their, that's their main heart.
00:13:58
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:14:00
Shane
Their main heart is for their home and family. Um, and, and then they are also, there's no problem with them if they want to work outside the home.
00:14:11
Shane
Um, now that said, I do believe if a wife doesn't want to work outside the home and she's willing to do the hard work, because I'll tell you, it's hard work.
00:14:23
Shane
I i used to stay at home one day a week with the kids and you know try to help with do some of the things that Tanya would do around the house and take care of the kids one day a week while she went to work.
00:14:34
Danny Price
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:14:35
Shane
That was the kind of way thing we had worked out my day day off. I would say i would do that. And I'll tell you, I would take my day at work all day long. ah over over it.
00:14:44
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:14:45
Shane
So it's hard work. And so I say that to say, if if a woman would rather be home and do the hard work of being at home, I do think the man should make every priority he can to make that possible.
00:14:59
Shane
um You know, they that that's kind of on him. That's responsibility he takes on in getting married to to be able to give her that um that opportunity.
00:15:05
Danny Price
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:15:11
Shane
Now, Now, it it isn't always the case and always possible, but I do think even then we sometimes, we live in a culture where everyone says, well, the, but there's just no way to do it on single family homes.
00:15:22
Shane
One of the single income home, um one of the arguments I would have against that is I know but my income was through most of our life and we were pretty much a single income home for the most part.
00:15:36
Danny Price
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:15:38
Shane
And I know my income was less than most of the people I know who used to always argue with me that it's impossible. I think people don't realize how much money they spend outside of, um for first of all, for childcare.
00:15:43
Danny Price
Right.
00:15:51
Shane
um So you knowrere we're putting our children in the care of other people and then paying a lot of money for it. And in the money we spend to work with needing a second car, no matter what.
00:15:58
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:16:03
Shane
um So we buy nicer cars, you know, we um needing, we eat, people eat out more, all those things. And, and we're not a very, we're not very good at budgeting. You know, we have a lot of people that think they need, you know, actually new clothes every year.
00:16:17
Shane
They need, um you know, they need to go on nice vacations.
00:16:18
Danny Price
Sure. sure
00:16:21
Shane
They need to go on these like five to $12,000 vacations every year, you know, People don't realize how much money they they spend, you know, on $7 coffees every day. so So, yes, I think it's okay. There's nothing wrong with it. But I think the priority is supposed to be for the home. And I think um we just have to be very careful to get into this idea that, no, what it's just, it is something we have to do in our culture.
00:16:47
Danny Price
Yeah, no, that was really good. That's a, and I purposely constructed that to be a tough, I mean, it's a tough question, but I could, ah I could picture myself or picture to myself, you know, people asking that and being like, well, does this apply to women and how does this work when it comes to actually working?
00:17:02
Danny Price
I would disagree with but everything you said. I think there's a big distinction between
00:17:08
Danny Price
people who say women are only to be housewives and only to take care of kids and that's all they're fit for versus, you know they're able to, you know, have businesses and do things. And you can, you see examples. And I think there's even other examples. Like you have like Lydia the new Testament that sells purple cloth and other people that are clearly doing things.
00:17:26
Danny Price
professions and things. Whether that's within the home, I think it's pretty clear in Titus 2.
00:17:27
Shane
Yeah.
00:17:31
Danny Price
I want to say it's verse 3 or 4, 3 through 5. Basically, it just says, older women are to teach the younger women. I'm actually to read this.
00:17:39
Shane
Yeah.
00:17:40
Danny Price
Hold on. Let me pull it up.
00:17:41
Shane
It's Titus.
00:17:41
Danny Price
It says,
00:17:42
Shane
Titus chapter 2.
00:17:43
Danny Price
Yeah, it says, um so this is verse five. So again, this is previously talking about older women training younger women to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind and submissive to their own husbands that the word of God may not be reviled. And then it goes on to give instructions for men.
00:17:57
Danny Price
That's not just talking about women there. Um, And so again, I think the idea of the first priority is that the is the household. And I'm not saying, hear me when I say this, I'm not saying that men cannot do housework or men are too good for rearing children or being part of that. That's totally not what I'm saying. I'm just saying...
00:18:16
Danny Price
from where The way it seems that God set it up is that women's, their first priority is you know to make sure that the household is operational, to but that the kids are being taken care of. But then there's freedom to have career to a certain i mean to a certain degree and to have all you know businesses and to do all this stuff and to have freedom. And I know maybe someone's listening to that and they resent that I'm saying that. And I'd love to talk talk to you about that. There's no...
00:18:39
Danny Price
you and just like hear, hear your perspective on it. That's not like a, I'm not being contentious with that, but just, that's just the way that I'm reading the scripture that it seems like that's the way God set it up.
00:18:50
Danny Price
But I do want to really reemphasize that it's really cool. And you, I think you see this throughout scripture when women have businesses and they're doing things, they're industrious and they're working hard and they're, doing their thing. I think that's awesome. And then there's all these questions about when what about when a woman is you know young and single before she gets married? Or what if it's a they have no kids? I mean, I don't know there's You can go any direction with that.
00:19:10
Danny Price
I don't think there's anything wrong.
00:19:11
Shane
Yeah. And I would say, you know, you question where, where you are in your season of life. i mean, I would not, I would not fault a couple who the white, if their goal is that she never works outside in the home, I would never fault her, them for not having her work before they had kids.
00:19:16
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:19:26
Shane
But man, at the same time, I would say might be a really good advantage to have her have her work and, and, use a lot of that funding to save, you know, and say, Hey, we're going to be putting away 35, 45,000 a year for three to six years while we, you know, you know, before we have kids, I think the bottom line for me that what I would challenge people just to ask themselves is unfortunately make a lot of decisions as Christians in America based on how much money something makes like what the financial benefits are.
00:19:37
Danny Price
Sure, yeah. Yeah.
00:19:48
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:20:05
Shane
And i think we're we're really shooting ourself in the foot by using that as our primary reason for making decisions. And i think we're making those decisions oftentimes without asking the other questions of what is it costing our family?
00:20:24
Shane
What is it costing our marriage? And what is it costing our spiritual life? by doing this. um
00:20:31
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:20:32
Shane
You know, when we when we decide we're both going to work full-time jobs, man, I just, I haven't seen it benefit the family. When I look, ah you know, I look over the last 60 years, I haven't seen it benefit what's going on with with families. I haven't seen it benefit on the the spiritual training of kids. um You know, i haven't seen the benefit. So that's all I would ask.
00:21:02
Danny Price
Yeah. But part-time, you know, to a certain degree, I think, I think we're both like, that's great. That's, that's awesome. As long as it's, you can censor the family.
00:21:07
Shane
Yeah, I think there again, it's just that.
00:21:08
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:21:08
Shane
that And honestly, I'm not there again. I'm not saying anyone's wrong to have a full time career. I'm just saying I just would ask them to really evaluate those things and not get defensive, not do it based on like, oh, well, I've got to answer what Shane says about it.
00:21:24
Shane
I'm you know, I hope everyone gets it any least that people that go to our church get.
00:21:24
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:21:28
Shane
Like, Hey man, don't, don't get bugged at me. I don't, mean first of all, who cares what I say? You know, just, just go to, go to the Bible, whatever the Bible says about it. And if you would, if you can feel really confident in that, then then God bless you.
00:21:42
Shane
I'm not, I'm, I don't think the Bible is a hundred percent clear on that where it's a, it, you know, you're absolutely wrong.
00:21:43
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:21:49
Shane
So.
00:21:50
Danny Price
Yeah. No, that's so it's a good point. So yeah, so come at me. um
00:21:55
Shane
yeah
00:21:55
Danny Price
Find my number and text me and see we i hear what you guys have to say about that.
00:21:58
Shane
Yeah, go to Danny. If you have issues with that one, go to Danny.
00:22:00
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:22:01
Shane
Don't go to me. i i get
00:22:02
Danny Price
I'm the one that brought question. Yeah.
00:22:03
Shane
I got enough ah hot things I got to deal with.
00:22:05
Danny Price
yeah ah jeez But yeah, I hope you guys hear our heart with that. and that's I'm not making any apologies for what the Bible says, but also I you won hope you guys hear our heart. so Next question.
00:22:16
Shane
Yeah.
00:22:17
Danny Price
When it comes to wealth and finances, when is enough enough? How do we biblically discern what to do with our finances and how much to save, to give, to spend? So just a little background really quick on that question.
Balancing Saving, Giving, and Spending
00:22:30
Danny Price
You you and in the sermon briefly brought this up about people just not having a kind of not ah not having an end to the work and to the hard work and that being a danger. so I'm just curious, like when do you know? Is it when you're at a certain a certain point, a certain dollar figure, a certain lifestyle figure? like like What do you know? When is enough enough? And then what do you do with the money that you have?
00:22:52
Shane
Um, man, you know, it's funny. I have never had to ask myself that question,
00:22:57
Danny Price
ah
00:22:58
Shane
but but I, but I, I hang out in circles of, uh, quite a few guys who do have to ask themselves those, those questions. And, um, and it's actually been interesting to wrestle through that with some guys. And I really, first of all, I really respect and appreciate their, um,
00:23:19
Shane
i don't know. They're just submission to the Holy spirit on that and really wanting to do what's best that in that direction.
00:23:21
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:23:26
Shane
Um, and with that said, I really don't think, I think that answer is different for everyone. I don't think there is a financial limit where, Hey, you've made too much money. You, something's wrong.
00:23:38
Shane
Um, I really do think it comes down to the attitude you have on that. if You know, I would hope someone that's in the multi millions is, um, maybe even more than a you know, that tithing is kind of their, their bottom standard of giving, um, that they would, they would be someone who, and what's interesting is of the maybe 12 guys I know who, who fall into those categories, as far as I know, every one of them, I would say does have a ah generous giving heart and is willing to give
00:23:59
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:24:15
Shane
abundantly um, and, you know, doesn't think even about the percentages. They've, they've kind of surpassed that. And now they just give generously about things that God puts on their heart.
00:24:27
Shane
Um, so I think a lot of it comes down to the attitude and then how do we biblically discern what to do with our finances and how much do we give and how much we spend, you know, there again, I think it comes down to the attitude of submission. Um,
00:24:41
Shane
Man, if you're coming up with reasons why you can't give when you're convicted, a then you're probably, you know, if if you're someone with a second home or, you know, living in ah any you know kind of homes that are over $3 million dollars kind of thing, and you've got cars and you're going on matt big vacations and and you get convicted about,
00:25:07
Shane
giving something that, you know, would be, you know, ah you know, something over and above normal.
00:25:17
Shane
And you're saying no because you're coming up with financial reasons to say no.
00:25:21
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:22
Shane
probably Probably you got to question yourself. Now, obviously, all of us probably have to at some level with that. But, um you know, I would say you're probably really need to challenge yourself if you really do have the right heart about it.
00:25:34
Shane
Um, so, so yeah, I mean, don't, there, I don't think there's a number though. I really don't. I think we all have to kind of look at that.
00:25:42
Danny Price
yeah
00:25:43
Shane
I also don't think there's a number that's wrong to spend. Um, I used to, i i used to kind of have a, well, it's just wrong for anyone to spend
00:25:47
Danny Price
yeah
00:25:53
Shane
a certain amount, you know, the more I've understood, the more I realized that, you know, when people spend their, their, they're helping the economy, they're creating jobs, they're, they're helping the craftsmen and whatever that, that do these things that people, it, you know, if people don't spend money, it, it, it doesn't help other anyone if all they do is put in a bank.
00:26:14
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:26:15
Shane
So, but, but they got to be spending it and giving it.
00:26:19
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:26:19
Shane
So, and when I say they, I mean, we, everybody,
00:26:22
Danny Price
Yeah, sure, sure. The way that I'm thinking about this is like a Venn diagram a little bit, and you have like the three overlapping circles. You know I'm talking about?
00:26:30
Shane
Yeah.
00:26:30
Danny Price
Like giving, sleep giving, safe spending in the middle.
00:26:30
Shane
Yeah.
00:26:32
Danny Price
If they're all overlapping correctly, you have, you know, correct finances. I think it's really easy depending on certain personalities to, you um over-emphasize or over, I gotta be careful how I say this, over overdo it in certain areas.
00:26:47
Danny Price
So for example, um someone who's just really over-emphasizing spending, I would look at their finances and go, okay, are you you're not giving and you're not really saving.
00:26:52
Shane
yeah
00:26:56
Danny Price
are You're just spending for your personal enjoyment.
00:27:01
Danny Price
What are you doing? You know, and again, I'm not saying that it's wrong to spend. And I totally agree with you. And I think that there's, there's something even just in the way that they feed, they feasted in the old Testament in certain places, they don't really have, you don't, there was a lot less money in terms of like economic benefit.
00:27:13
Shane
Yeah.
00:27:15
Danny Price
Like we have in the United States. Like no one was out like, Oh, I got to go buy this cell phone back then. It wasn't, there wasn't stuff like that or like um but maybe a cell phone is a bad example, but like gadgets or like a TV or things that are totally unnecessary.
00:27:26
Danny Price
There wasn't as much of that. Like entertainment is definitely like a more recent thing.
00:27:28
Shane
yeah
00:27:32
Danny Price
Even if you go a hundred years ago, I mean, it wasn't as much as it is now, but there definitely was feasting and there was, there was unnecessary to a degree spending that happened for enjoyment.
00:27:43
Danny Price
um And you see that with wine, you see that with food, you see that with, you know, different stuff like that.
00:27:43
Shane
Yep. yep
00:27:47
Danny Price
And then you see people who are really overemphasized into saving. And I think this is a really common one is like the idea that I'm going to store up enough food wealth for myself that I'm protected and insulated from any kind of event that would happen. And I'm totally safe and money. I just worship the idea of having more.
00:28:04
Danny Price
And you see this, and I think to that person, that person might need to learn how to spend and give more because they're turning money into their God. The other person, like I would say gluttony is their God. And this person that would be like, you know, security is their God.
00:28:17
Danny Price
And then most, i don't think a lot of people over give, but I do think there's an element of people who aren't providing for their family and they're giving away their time and their talents for free to a certain degree and their family is suffering because of it.
00:28:30
Danny Price
I don't think it's, I don't, I think it's really, really hard to overgive. think it's really hard to do that.
00:28:34
Shane
Yeah.
00:28:35
Danny Price
But I think there are people who, I guess maybe the it's a little bit of a different vice, but they don't provide for their family. Their family suffers and doesn't have food, doesn't have clothing, and doesn't have safety or security at all.
00:28:48
Danny Price
And they're saying, well, I'm just giving giving it away and it's fine. That's that's a lot more rare, i think, than the other two issues, especially in States, but it is something to be on the lookout for. So I think you just try to live in the perfect Venn diagram of There's an inflow of of resources, but there's also a really big outflow and you're saving enough to make sure that your family's taken care of, but you're not saving so much that it's like unnecessary and you're spending enough.
00:29:10
Danny Price
So you're enjoying life, but you're not spending so much. You know, there's like this, this balance and tell me if you figure that out.
00:29:14
Shane
Yeah.
00:29:15
Danny Price
Cause I haven't figured that out, but I think there, I think it's out there.
00:29:17
Shane
That's a good, no, I really like that. That's, that's, I think there's a good wisdom in that, you know, and I think the Bible actually hits on all three of those, those things at some level.
00:29:26
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:29:27
Shane
um The giving one, I'm not sure if, if it does. um
00:29:31
Danny Price
Not overgiving, but like not providing, I guess, is a better way to...
00:29:34
Shane
Yeah. Yeah. Not providing for your family. So yeah. You know, and I would say, i actually think it's good to give to a level where it does hurt your family.
00:29:42
Danny Price
Hmm, yeah.
00:29:43
Shane
um not, you know, at least hurts the way most people in America say it hurts.
00:29:50
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:29:50
Shane
oh So I won't, I won't rat out which of my kids, but one of my children over the years, um I remember they were asking about giving and they were actually surprised to find out how much we gave um when I talked about it and they were kind of mad.
00:30:04
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:30:10
Shane
Um, and they, and I was like, i was like, well, what, what, why, what do you what do we do without because of that? And all they could mention was like, i was like, how has God not provided for us?
00:30:20
Shane
And all they could mention is like things that they want that we don't buy them or vacations that, you know, their friends get to go on to Hawaii where we could go to Hawaii if we didn't give, um, or, you know, um,
00:30:26
Danny Price
Uh-huh.
00:30:31
Danny Price
Sure.
00:30:37
Shane
Yeah, they things i was like, well, that's, that's, God actually calls us to sacrifice to those levels.
00:30:43
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:30:44
Shane
That's, that's what we're, you know, that's how one of the ways we worship him is we're saying, God, we're not going to go to Hawaii because we, we love you and we'd rather give to your work, you know, and God, we're not going to drive new cars, you know?
00:30:55
Danny Price
Yep.
00:30:57
Shane
And so, um, you know, and, and then I had to get even, I didn't even explained like, so they were like, well, you wouldn't drive a new car ever.
00:30:59
Danny Price
No, that's that's super accurate. Yeah.
00:31:04
Shane
And I was like, well, personally, probably not because I don't believe in It's a good financial decision, but outside of that, sure. Yeah. if I made another $150,000 more than I make, and I could still give all that I give and, and, you know, then I might choose to say, yeah, we're going to buy a new car every now and then, you know, things like that.
00:31:19
Danny Price
Thank you.
00:31:22
Shane
that It was, it it was, it turned into a good conversation, but I, It was funny to me. Their initial reaction was, well, we are making such huge sacrifices.
00:31:33
Danny Price
Yeah, no, I totally agree.
00:31:34
Shane
so
00:31:35
Danny Price
Yeah, no, if you're, I want to be clear, if if you're if you're giving, it should, yeah, it should hurt. There should be be like, oh yeah, I could have done stuff with that money. I just meant more, if you're just like not providing for your family and you're, and they're living in, and they're living, a yeah, they're living where they're like, can't, they don't even know where they're going to eat from That's, which again, I don't think that really happens in the United States often.
00:31:44
Shane
Yeah, I know what you meant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:50
Shane
Yeah. I was only clarifying for the average American that listens and thinks, yeah, I give to it hurts.
00:31:55
Danny Price
ah
00:31:56
Shane
I, I, I was not able to go out to eat on Thursday cause I, you know,
00:32:00
Danny Price
Yeah, sure. Sure. Oh, geez. um Next question. Is there a type of laziness that exists even if you do go to work and provide for your family? Does the Bible have any clarity on that?
00:32:13
Shane
um, I don't know if the Bible was has clarity on it that I, I, I actually spent a little time thinking about that one. Um,
00:32:22
Shane
They're, you know, the Bible has, storie Jesus tells parables of like people that that do work and then get equal. like I was thinking of the one parable where the guys go for the whole day and they get the same pay as the guys that go for two hours.
00:32:38
Shane
But that's not, they all had the same attitude of working.
00:32:38
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:32:41
Shane
It wasn't on laziness.
00:32:43
Danny Price
And that was more about like self salvation, right?
00:32:43
Shane
So i really couldn't come, yeah, I really couldn't come up with one.
00:32:45
Danny Price
Like, yeah.
00:32:46
Shane
um um but But I will say, i do think, you know, just going to work and providing for your family, there's still laziness in that. I mean, there are people who go to work and never get fired from their job, but the people around them wish they would get fired, you know, or they, they, you know, they're not pulling their weight.
00:33:03
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:33:05
Danny Price
There you go. There you go
00:33:10
Shane
You know, they look for reasons to not have to do this, the amount work.
00:33:12
Danny Price
Sure. Sure.
00:33:15
Shane
um You know, and even, I don't think I, you know,
00:33:15
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:33:19
Shane
And I'm not saying everyone needs to have, you know, the pristine yard and the, you know, the pristine, I mean, you've, anyone's been to my house knows I don't believe any of this, but that, but, but I still think you can be lazy in that. Like, well, I go to work, I provide, and then I just come home and I sit in a chair and i sit in a chair for five hours and then I go to bed and I get up and, you know, honestly, for for even for your own blessing of you that's a lazy way to live it.
00:33:48
Shane
You're not, you're not, um, taking care of what God, you know, we taught, that's one of the proverbs that we talked about is, you you know, you, you can tell they don't take care of their stuff.
00:33:51
Danny Price
yeah
00:33:57
Shane
You know, they don't take care of what God's given them. and Um, so I think, yeah, laziness can be displayed in a lot of ways.
00:34:04
Danny Price
yeah sorry if you hear my son just yelling in the background he's out there playing um so
00:34:10
Shane
Yeah.
00:34:14
Danny Price
I'm going to speak a little like this is a thought I'm working through as I'm speaking it. so I'm little out my depth here. So if this isn't, this isn't land just for warning heads up, but the Bible in my mind, when I've read about parenting and fathering, especially, it doesn't say wrestle with your kids.
00:34:32
Danny Price
When you come home, play with your kids and give your wife a kiss on the cheek and ask if she needs help with the dishes or whatever. doesn't say that.
00:34:39
Shane
Mm-hmm.
00:34:41
Danny Price
So you could I could see how you could be a Christian man and fully secure in your salvation and go and do this and do that thing. Go home and sit down on the couch and check out. However, the Bible does call us to love our wives. and And it talks about how we love our wives is how Christ loves the church and he gave himself up for her. And so if you start thinking to yourself about like, okay, laziness, I'm providing for my for my family, but I have like this, like, I don't have this...
00:35:11
Danny Price
this desire to serve my wife and to do all these other things, but I'm okay. So it's fine. And I think you can have your salvation. I think you could be a man like that. And technically you could be saved as long as you're, again, it says, you know, it's worse than an infidel for a man that doesn't provide for his family. But,
00:35:25
Shane
Uh-huh.
00:35:26
Danny Price
I think that there's this element, if you're, if that's where you end it, I think you're missing this whole element of being selfless and loving your wives and loving your kids. I talk, the Bible talks about loving your kids and that if you don't, you know for example, if you don't discipline them, it's like if you hate them and no one hates their kids. So that's why it's kind of saying that, um, i guess people do, but it's saying not to, um, and then you love your wife. And I think there's this element of like, yeah, sure. The Bible might not say specifically to wrestle with your kids, like I said, or whatever it is, you know, help out in the yard, you know,
00:35:52
Danny Price
How about, you know, hanging pictures for your wife, you know, on the wall when she needs help with certain things like that?
00:35:54
Shane
Yeah.
00:35:57
Danny Price
It's not... It's not clear 100% on that, but that the heart is clear for a man to have. And so I think you have to ask yourself if you're rejecting those things or you're coming home and you're like, going to check out.
00:36:08
Danny Price
Where is your heart at? Are you being selfless? are you true is that Are you really okay? Are you truly loving your wife? do you Do you feel good about that? And I would challenge people on that because, again, this is me you know working this idea out as I'm saying it.
00:36:14
Shane
yeah
00:36:19
Danny Price
But I would i don't know if there's a lot of guys that would actually say that verbally, but I think inwardly they they they think. Yeah, sure. I work hard. I provide. My wife has everything she could want. And then you're totally checked out of the emotional needs of your family.
00:36:32
Danny Price
So don't know if you have anything you want to say ah say to that. or It's a little bit little bit of different la little bit of different of laziness, i guess.
00:36:35
Shane
um No, I'm glad you went that direction.
00:36:38
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:36:38
Shane
Yeah, I'm glad you went that direction with it, though, too, because, yeah, no, you're right. There's laziness in... there's laziness in in the people we're called to care for, you know, cause I think a lot of men, you're totally greedy.
00:36:49
Danny Price
yeah
00:36:52
Shane
They think, well, as long as I do these things, I'm, I'm good, but you know, you're, we're called to care for our wives. We're called to care for our children. And, and a lot of men take a totally lazy approach in, in regards to how they do that.
00:37:08
Shane
And, um Yeah. I mean, and you know, it's just not wise. It does, it does not pay off for you in the end.
00:37:17
Danny Price
No. Yeah.
00:37:18
Shane
You know, that, that those, you know, your marriage will be miserable, um, or you'll be divorced. Um, and your kids won't have much of a relationship with you.
00:37:28
Shane
And, um, you know, I think it's so some of that, you know, as men, we, we sometimes, unfortunately, one thing about our, um, uh,
00:37:40
Shane
What's the word I'm looking for? Some part of our insecurities as men is we're not as good relationally as women.
00:37:45
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:37:47
Shane
And sometimes when we're when we're insecure about something, we shy away from it. Um, and I'm obviously this doesn't apply to every person, but in general, and so we shy away from it.
00:37:59
Shane
And so rather than engage with doing the hard things of, you know, asking our wives about their day and asking them about their feelings and asking about how certain things are and then engaging with our kids and, you know, like not just showing up.
00:38:08
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:14
Shane
Cause man, I know a lot of great dads are great at showing up and they're great at like, like, you know, talking to their kid about the sport or whatever, but then when it comes to like, they're having hard time with the sport or they're having hard time with their friends on the team or whatever, then they just, they won't go there.
00:38:29
Danny Price
yeah
00:38:31
Shane
They just ignore it. yeah You know?
00:38:33
Danny Price
yeah
00:38:34
Shane
And um man, if they would just, if you just do the hard work and not be lazy on those things, it, man, it gives you so much, there's so much blessing in that. So.
00:38:43
Danny Price
Yeah, no, that's that's good. So yeah, so don't be lazy. and Don't be lazy in that area, if especially if you're finding yourself making excuses for yourself in all the other ways. Like, yeah, well, yeah, we're not poor and I go to work.
00:38:54
Danny Price
Okay, yeah, it's it's not just about that. And I think if you see your value as a man or a woman, again, ah that you could use this in the retrospect if you're a woman of like, yeah, take care of the kids and it's fine.
00:39:05
Danny Price
and But you're you know you're not, oh, my son's crying outside. Sorry if you hear that.
00:39:08
Shane
Uh-oh, I heard that one.
00:39:08
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:39:12
Danny Price
playing a little too hard. Um, but if you're, but if you're a wife and you're, you know, you can apply these principles to yourself as well. I think don't this is just for men. There's a, there's a type of laziness that exists. If you're just, I'm barely meeting the requirements and I'm going to do the the the basics and I got it. And you're like, not looking to go past that and be selfless and love. i think there's a there's something to be said about that. So, all right.
00:39:33
Danny Price
Um, the next two questions are not mine. They're from Zach. So Zach, really appreciate you asking thought provoking questions. Um, How does being wise in the area of work interact with the fourth commandment to remember the Sabbath?
Work's Role in Rest and the Sabbath
00:39:49
Danny Price
Exodus 29 says that children of Israel were to work for six days and then rest on the seventh. Is work a prerequisite for rest? How should we as Gentile followers of Jesus respond to the fourth commandment in our modern lives?
00:40:01
Shane
I love that part of the question of is work a prerequisite for rest? um
00:40:06
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:40:06
Shane
right Because ah probably a lot of people don't think about that. But yeah, if you we look at the way the Sabbath, specifically related to the Sabbath, um you know, God rested on the seventh day after six days of work. And that's what we are called. We're called the six days of work and taking a day of rest.
00:40:29
Shane
so um I would definitely say in regards to that, yes, it is. And, um and, and really probably just in general, I mean, the idea of,
00:40:41
Shane
rest, you rest implies you need, you need it because you have been working. So, um, yeah, so I would say it is.
00:40:49
Danny Price
Yeah, right, right.
00:40:51
Shane
Um, and then how do we as followers respond to that? You know, I mean, there's, there's different schools of thought in this. I mean, I know some who, um, very strictly believe in keeping the day, the Sabbath,
00:41:06
Danny Price
Sure.
00:41:07
Shane
and others that kind of have a more loose version of that. And then some who, who ignore it altogether. I'm sorry. I guess I don't have things turned off on my computer.
00:41:19
Shane
It's probably a little, I can't do it right now without pausing. So I would say I fall in the line of,
00:41:22
Danny Price
now you're go
00:41:29
Shane
It's not something we are to hold to as, as legalism, but it definitely is a pattern that we should, should embrace.
00:41:36
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:41:37
Shane
We should embrace the rhythm of the Sabbath. Um, and we should prop, we should be practicing, um, a time of rest and trust. Um, uh,
00:41:48
Shane
So, so that's where I would fall in that. um You know, Jesus said in Matthew or wait, was it, where was it? Mark in Mark chapter two, verse 27, he said, the Sabbath was made for man, not the man, not man for the Sabbath. So in some ways I think we should see the Sabbath as a gift.
00:42:06
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:42:06
Shane
um that god God knows us. He knows how we're wired. And um to to work all the time is um detrimental to us. So um you know we if we see it as a gift, um I think that really is kind of, we see it as more of a blessing um than something we have to do a certain way. We have to hold the things. And you know he was saying that in response to Pharisees who had to hold to it to a very strict degree. um So don't know if I'm answering whole question.
00:42:38
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:42:40
Shane
I'm kind of going off on different things. um Yes.
00:42:41
Danny Price
No, you're good.
00:42:42
Shane
so um Applying in our modern lives. I think a lot of people might have day work schedules. Now we have such weird work schedules. um You know, some people work.
00:42:50
Danny Price
know
00:42:52
Shane
Three days, you know, you have firefighters, right, where they work three to ten days.
00:42:56
Danny Price
Yep.
00:42:57
Shane
know exactly how many in a row without, you know, and then they have few days off.
00:42:58
Danny Price
Yep.
00:43:02
Shane
So you might not be able to take like a weekly, like, hey, I don't work at any, I don't do anything every single week. But, man, I would say it'd be a really wise thing on on your time off to take a day where you're worshipping You're You're, you're, you know, spending time in rest.
00:43:16
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:43:20
Shane
You're maybe sleeping a little longer. You're praying. yeah um You're enjoying time with the family. You're not, you're not thinking about projects that you got to do. you just... just being, you know, I think that would be good.
00:43:32
Shane
And and you, you know, um, so it, I think you have to be a little bit more flexible nowadays.
00:43:35
Danny Price
Yep.
00:43:38
Shane
Um, you know, for me, my, my Sabbath is never a Sunday because you know, I get up at six 30 and, and go until usually one 30.
00:43:43
Danny Price
Yep. Mm-hmm.
00:43:47
Shane
Um, but, uh, yeah. So I think it just kind of depends.
00:43:54
Danny Price
Yeah. In Galatians, Paul is talking to... the people there and kind of getting frustrated with them. So Galatians four, um Hannah was just reading this this morning. We were just talking about this, which is, it was just really funny.
00:44:08
Danny Price
But basically just saying, I'm going to read this really quick. And paul and but Paul's like super frustrated. But now that you know God, this is thiss is verse nine, um chapter four, verse nine of Galatians. But now that you know God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you returning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? You are observing special days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.
00:44:32
Danny Price
um And that's kind of, it's a common theme in Galatians of Paul just like trying to fight back against the Judaizers, of people who are trying to get people back into the Jewish laws and traditions.
00:44:37
Shane
Yeah.
00:44:40
Danny Price
what he What I'm not saying is that it's wrong to take a Sabbath in the practical sense, but that... these things are not going to save you. And as long as if you're taking a Sabbath and even if you're committed to it, I think that's awesome. and i don't think there's anything wrong with that. And even setting aside a specific day and saying, and I keep Sabbath. I think it's wrong. If you look at it as though those people were looking at it as going, this is what justifies me. I cannot be a Christian unless I do this. I have to be, to be saved. I have to be observing this, the Sabbath. I think that's the wrong perspective and the wrong heart to come at it from.
00:45:11
Danny Price
But I totally agree with you.
00:45:11
Shane
Yeah. Yep.
00:45:12
Danny Price
I think it's very wise. And you see this just with even the way that they farmed the land of the Old Testament, like they would take a break every seven years of farming a certain area of land. It's like, it's weird how that works with the number seven, but they would do that on purpose.
00:45:23
Danny Price
And and the time the times of feasting, it's the same principle. you're If you're feasting all the time, it's not a feast. It's just normal. It's only a feast if it's different than what's usual. It's rest. Rest is only rest if it's not work.
00:45:36
Danny Price
So you have to have like, you have to have the normal stuff.
00:45:37
Shane
yep
00:45:40
Danny Price
to then have the the special thing. And I think it is important to have the special thing.
00:45:42
Shane
Amen.
00:45:42
Danny Price
I think it is important to rest. I think if you're not, like you said, I totally agree with you. If you're not setting aside time to have margin and to have a Sabbath of a certain version, you know, whether it's on Sunday or Saturday or whatever, i'd be I'd be really interested to see what your life looks like and to see how you are holding up. Because I think our bodies were designed for a rest to a certain degree at certain times. But again, our bodies were also designed for hard work.
00:46:04
Danny Price
And rest is not rest unless it's resting from something. You kind of alluded to that, and I love that.
00:46:07
Shane
yeah
00:46:09
Danny Price
It's a great, it's like you said, it's a great little insinuation. like if If you're not working hard, then when you're resting, that's not resting. That's laziness. That's not doing that's not doing anything.
00:46:18
Shane
Yeah. What are you resting from?
00:46:20
Danny Price
You're not resting from anything. Um, unfortunately there's a lot of guys out there and and ladies that are resting from not doing anything. And it's, it's not rest. You're not, it's not gratifying to kick back and relax if you actually haven't done anything.
00:46:34
Danny Price
So anyways, um, last question, never done.
00:46:35
Shane
Yep.
00:46:38
Danny Price
What distinction should we make between work?
Labor vs Works: Biblical Distinction
00:46:40
Danny Price
And then it in quotes, our labor and vocation and works. We are saved by grace through faith, not of works. Our work and works the same thing in the Bible.
00:46:51
Shane
Yeah, they're not. um Work is definitely something we do. as ah I would say work is something we do that contributes to the whole of society. um
00:47:01
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:47:02
Shane
And our works are things that we put in our mind, like the exact things that you just mentioned, and they Paul was talking about in Galatians, where we say, me doing this applies to my salvation. Like me doing this is a part of what makes me acceptable in God's eyes. um Sadly, people, i i know a lot of, I've had so many conversations with men, Christian men who don't think they'll, they'll come to me and say, man, I just wish I i could do a job that mattered to God.
00:47:39
Shane
You know, something like that, you know, so so some words along those lines.
00:47:39
Danny Price
Hmm. Hmm.
00:47:42
Shane
And my conversation is usually like, why do you not think your job matters to God? um so So sadly, we actually almost kind of try to make work in general, this neutral thing, kind of like I referred to on Sunday, this non-spiritual act.
00:47:58
Danny Price
Right.
00:48:00
Shane
It's still very much a spiritual act. You're not in any way saved through it. But your attitude and your heart towards it is a great way for you to show God, you to worship him and to glorify him and to to actually, in many ways, make huge effects on the world that you probably don't even see in most people that that have jobs and work if they go into those those jobs with a godly attitude.
00:48:28
Shane
so So they're very different.
00:48:28
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:48:30
Shane
um And yet work is work our vocation um is also a spiritual thing.
00:48:38
Danny Price
Yeah. How much time did you say that we spend at work as an individual? You quoted something on Sunday.
00:48:43
Shane
um yeah Well, what's interesting is it's saying that people just a little bit younger than you, Now, unless things take a swing back in a different direction, well probably only spend about they'll probably spend about to maybe their waking hours as adults, basically from the age of work.
00:48:54
Danny Price
Uh-huh.
00:49:06
Danny Price
How much was that?
00:49:06
Shane
people your age
00:49:07
Danny Price
that so Say that one more time. How much? 20%. How?
00:49:09
Shane
twenty percent
00:49:10
Danny Price
Wow. Wow. Wow. how wow
00:49:12
Shane
yeah people your age and up would they would say it's 25 to 30% of our waking hours.
00:49:19
Danny Price
wow
00:49:19
Shane
um Because it's just the younger generation is pushing really hard for it, that 40 hours a week is too much work um which to me, there's a whole nother theological thing about how our society is going up of what we were just saying about how we're created to work.
00:49:28
Danny Price
Uh-huh.
00:49:36
Shane
We're becoming this, like we have to be entertained constantly, you know? So like I, it's so, I think it's so detrimental to think like to me, a 40 hour work week is almost like not a very full week.
00:49:47
Shane
Like if I have a 40 hour work week, I'm kind of like, Oh cool. Now what, now what am I going to do? So yeah.
00:49:52
Danny Price
ah because that gives you some lot quite a bit of time in the evening and then full weekends. Yeah, I mean, I get what you were saying.
00:49:56
Shane
Yeah.
00:49:58
Danny Price
um Yeah, to to your first point, just talking about that of if you don't think that your work is going to make an impact, mean, just what does that quote? 30% of your life, 25%, 30% of your life. So that means you're going to spend, if you're spending time at work, unless you work alone,
00:50:13
Danny Price
which I doubt you do, or you know do you have you cross paths with people, especially if you have coworkers that are working alongside you, 25 to 30% of their life is spent right next to you.
00:50:20
Shane
Yeah.
00:50:21
Danny Price
And are are they a Christian?
00:50:21
Shane
Yep.
00:50:21
Danny Price
Are you a Christian? I mean, that's like the most intimate mission field that you can get.
00:50:24
Shane
Yeah. Yeah, it truly is.
00:50:26
Danny Price
is i mean that's like that's like like i mean, yeah, if you can bring one person to know the Lord and you know every single day you just are showing you know God's wisdom and character and love for them, I mean, it's gotta mean something.
00:50:39
Danny Price
That's a lot of pollination.
00:50:39
Shane
Well, and then I think the other thing is i want to get for people that it's not just, and I know you didn't mean it this way, but that like, oh, did I, did I help someone actually, did I watch someone come to the Lord because of this?
00:50:39
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:50:53
Danny Price
Sure.
00:50:54
Shane
But you don't know what's going on spiritually in them because they worked with you. And it might not even be nowadays, we don't even work side by side with the same people for 25, 30 years like we used to.
00:51:04
Shane
So nowadays it might be, man, yeah I had this effect on someone between the ages of 23 and 27, but then they moved on to this other place. And when their marriage started going and truck getting in trouble, they worked alongside me and they saw how my wife and I, you know, they heard me talk about my wife.
00:51:22
Shane
And and so they started going to church because of that bubble on. You know, so we don't, we just don't even know the effects, you know.
00:51:28
Danny Price
Yeah, totally. Um, yeah, no. And I wasn't trying to get, sorry, I wasn't over, over, overly pressuring people. Sorry. I wasn't trying to do that.
00:51:35
Shane
No, yeah, no, I i knew what you meant.
00:51:36
Danny Price
Um, the other thing too is, and I think this is even to a certain level, even ah sometimes a better witness is, um, as Christians in the workplace, we should be like the best of what we're doing.
00:51:37
Shane
I knew what you meant.
00:51:47
Danny Price
And even if we're not like necessarily reviewed the best on Yelp or whatever it is, the, the way that we, the quality of our work in the way that we, um, display ourselves should just be astounding to people.
00:52:00
Danny Price
They should look at us and go, wow, that person could have asked for so much more money or cheated me in this way or that And they didn't, they were honest. And even though it hurt them, this, this person is going out of their way to help me.
00:52:07
Shane
Mm-hmm.
00:52:08
Danny Price
Why are they doing that? I don't understand. Huh? He keeps talking about his faith or he is his, you know, blah, blah, blah, whatever. It's like, wow, that's, it makes a difference. And so it's, it's one of the worst witnesses and one of the worst witnesses,
00:52:20
Danny Price
things that you can do as a Christian, I think, or not, not the worst, but one it's it's it's a pretty bad thing when you're known in the workplace around town or whatever, as someone who's not a good worker and cheat and cheats and do that, does this, all this stuff.
00:52:32
Shane
and hurt
00:52:33
Danny Price
And then still comes to be a Christian. And maybe you even spend a ton of time talking about being a Christian, but then you're not a hard worker.
00:52:37
Shane
Yep. ah yeah don that
00:52:38
Danny Price
That's it's, it's, it's so bad. Don't be that.
00:52:41
Shane
big and Especially don't be the guy who talks about it.
00:52:41
Danny Price
Don't be that. Don't be that guy or that, or that girl.
00:52:45
Shane
Just stop talking about it. If that's who you are.
00:52:48
Danny Price
Yeah, it reflects very poorly on God and Christian work ethic.
00:52:53
Shane
Yeah.
00:52:53
Danny Price
um The last thing I wanted to mention about...
00:52:55
Shane
Yeah. Well, Hey, real quick on that about the best, just so you know, too, I, cause deal with that as a pastor that, I mean, that's our goal as a church.
00:52:56
Danny Price
just oh go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.
00:53:05
Shane
Our goal as a church is to present the very best, you know? um And so I think a lot of times people get bugged. Sometimes it, we can be so professional, like some people want church to not be very professional.
00:53:18
Shane
They kind of want it to end professional.
00:53:19
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:53:20
Shane
i don't know. It almost has have a negative work connotation to it. Sometimes it,
00:53:24
Danny Price
Excellent. Excellent.
00:53:25
Shane
Excellence. Yeah.
00:53:26
Shane
And, and, you know, in my mind, when we search for excellence, when we try to have like really great stuff in the children's ministry and we were saying, Hey, we're going to spend the extra money to really get it nice.
00:53:26
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:53:39
Shane
And, you know, we want the sound to sound really good in the worship center, you know, all these things it's, it's because in my mind, we should be presenting excellence.
00:53:50
Shane
as as every every way that we can. So, you know, anyway, kind of just du dovetailed off of what you were saying.
00:53:56
Danny Price
Yeah, no. um I just wanted to say, I wanted to get back. So we we wandered, or I wandered a little bit from the question. Originally, just wanted to go back to Zach's question about, there is a distinction, and it's very clear between work, like your vocation, and works.
00:54:11
Danny Price
And works as in, and yeah, I know we were, I was like, we're saying good things, but had nothing to do with what he was saying.
00:54:11
Shane
Oh, yeah, that was the topic.
00:54:16
Shane
Yeah, nothing to do with the questions.
00:54:17
Danny Price
But really just wanted to emphasize that. I really believe, just based off what the Bible says, that you can... you can You should be in a vocation. You should be working. You should be providing for your family. And that is separate from the good things and the fruit that God shows. Now, a lot of that fruit can be shown in your work. For example, the you know the fruit of the Spirit that you exhibit by being a Christian, and the Spirit gives you these fruits, that can be exhibited in your workplace.
00:54:41
Shane
Yeah.
00:54:41
Danny Price
But your works, again, everyone, we all know our works are not saving us, as in our good works are not saving us.
00:54:42
Shane
Ooh.
00:54:47
Danny Price
So there is a distinction between those. There's overlap in how you work, but your work has does not have to do with your works, unless you want to make the argument for diligence or perseverance or something like that.
00:54:55
Shane
Yeah.
00:54:58
Danny Price
But again, it doesn't really matter. You're just living a good, godly Christian life. to That's the end of what you're trying to do. You're not saving yourself with what you're doing, just as long as you're on the
Pre-Sin Work and its Heavenly Implications
00:55:08
Danny Price
same page with that. Another cool thing just to think about, too, is In the garden, before there was even sin, before there was even need for salvation, Adam was working.
00:55:16
Danny Price
God put him in charge of tending the fields. It literally says, oh, geez, I'm going mess this up. I'm going to Google this. Hold on.
00:55:27
Danny Price
Sorry for my keyboard just clacking away. It's so loud. All right. It is Genesis 2.15, Adam was placed in the Garden of Eden, and then it says in quotes, to work it and to take care of it, or in other versions, to dress it and to keep it, um which gives the ah the the illustration of he's doing stuff.
00:55:44
Danny Price
He's not just like passively observing.
00:55:44
Shane
Yeah.
00:55:45
Danny Price
He's actively working in the garden. So you got to think about there was work, there was doing even before there was a fall, and a lot of people I know make the assumption that there's going to be work and stuff to do even in heaven and in the the new kingdom.
00:55:48
Shane
Yep.
00:55:59
Danny Price
It's not just going to be like we're just passively just like, yeah,
00:55:59
Shane
Well, based on based on that, we would assume there is, right?
00:56:04
Danny Price
Exactly.
00:56:05
Shane
I mean, yeah.
00:56:05
Danny Price
So don't don't get the two twisted that it's like, well, work is this thing. I mean, yes, the the hardness of work is definitely because of the fall, but it's but there was work before salvation, and that's and it's okay to work.
00:56:18
Danny Price
It's not a bad thing.
00:56:18
Shane
Yeah.
00:56:19
Danny Price
You don't have to like put it in like jux juxtaposition it against... Like, oh, there's work and then all the good ministry things that I want to do and the good works that I have laid out for me. It's like, that's not that's not a fairest that's not a fair thing.
00:56:30
Danny Price
You can do good works while you're working at your job. I don't know if that kind of gets to the heart of this question.
00:56:34
Shane
Yeah.
00:56:35
Danny Price
Do you have anything you want to...
00:56:36
Shane
yeah but Well, but also just ah some of the best joys in life come out of work.
00:56:44
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:56:44
Shane
you know, um you know, when you have the pleasure of being able to do something you love, um you know, even when it is kind of hard, like I know some contractors who have taken great joy in some of the beautiful things that they've built, you know, um therapists who have been able to save marriages and take great joy in those things.
00:56:46
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:56:58
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:57:01
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:57:04
Shane
Teachers that as hard as they can be, you know, just take great joy and being able to do those things.
00:57:06
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:57:10
Shane
You know, I mean, You know, I think you take great joy in your job, you know, it's hard.
00:57:14
Danny Price
yeah
00:57:15
Shane
I mean, we talk a lot about the hard things of it, but you know, there's, there's, there's great joy in, in work that you, that you love, you know? Yeah.
00:57:25
Danny Price
Totally. Yeah. No, I really agree. um doing something mean Doing something fully and excellently and diligently, I think, is glorifying to God. And you do get enjoyment out of that. It's not bad. Even if it's a mundane thing.
00:57:36
Danny Price
Like, my dad's been a window washer for his entire life.
00:57:38
Shane
Yeah.
00:57:39
Danny Price
um or Not his entire life, but for his entire like later adult life. like you We're going on 30, 40 years of him window washing. And talk about... I mean, if you've ever washed a window before, you know this. I mean, it's just like...
00:57:49
Shane
It's a pretty mundane activity.
00:57:50
Danny Price
The windows start to look the same after a while, but he takes enjoyment in it.
00:57:52
Shane
Yeah.
00:57:55
Danny Price
And he, i mean, he shoots the breeze with all these like park city people and that have no idea about, you know,
00:58:00
Shane
Yeah, he has relationships with everybody.
00:58:01
Danny Price
Yeah, yeah. I mean, he he really digs in and it really loves what he does and he loves to see a clean window. And it's so mundane and boring. um And i helped I've helped him and worked for him for so many you know hours and clean so many X thousands of windows. And I see the vision that he has behind it and it's totally bigger than just clean the window. And that's okay. you know And so I'm ah we're not i'm not saying...
00:58:23
Danny Price
If you're listening to this, you're like, well, I just got to find that job that really gives me fulfillment and really tickles that itch of like, then I'm really, you know, I could really take pride it.
00:58:31
Shane
Nope.
00:58:31
Danny Price
It's like, you can take pride in doing anything. as If it's a job, you can anything.
00:58:34
Shane
That's, that's actually a great analogy because yeah, your dad, I'm sure just got into that because he saw a need and thought, Hey, I can, I can do that and make some money.
00:58:42
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:58:42
Shane
But then he found how to be fulfilled in it versus I've got to go find the thing that's going to fulfill me.
00:58:50
Danny Price
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
00:58:51
Shane
how How can you find the way to be fulfilled in it? That's ah that's a really great point because I would say, quite frankly, probably 80% of people are not going to have a job with it.
00:59:02
Shane
If you just look at the job of like, this is all I'm doing, no then it's not to – not everyone can have the super fulfilling kind of job and just the job well done, that job well done.
00:59:06
Danny Price
Yeah, yeah. Totally.
00:59:13
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:59:14
Shane
now We shall should take pride in that, but um you got to find your other ways to find it.
00:59:17
Danny Price
Totally.
00:59:21
Danny Price
And Shane, just for example, like you're in ministry, and you're in what most people consider like the role of like, if you're really a Christian, you should, you know, a pastor is like the pin, the pinnacle. How much of your job is just the most mundane and hard and boring and not glamorous things? I mean.
00:59:36
Shane
Um, well, I would, honestly, I would say but about, about 30% is mundane and about 40% is way harder than most people want to ever deal with. And I deal with so many hard things that people, the average person doesn't have to hear about or think about.
00:59:46
Danny Price
Oh, yeah.
00:59:50
Danny Price
Yeah. But people would say, oh, he must be so happy with his job because he must be so fulfilled. And it must be just every moment is like people giving their life.
00:59:57
Shane
Yep. I just sit in the office and read the Bible with a cup of coffee and then write.
01:00:00
Danny Price
Yeah. And people come in and just talk about their wins with you all week.
01:00:05
Shane
Yep. Oh, and I get, oh yeah.
01:00:05
Danny Price
And you feel...
01:00:06
Shane
People come in to just share their joyful things that are happening in their life.
01:00:08
Danny Price
well
01:00:10
Shane
That's what I hear about. I'm almost all done.
01:00:12
Danny Price
Every, the grass is always greener on the other side when it comes to your work.
01:00:14
Shane
Yeah.
01:00:15
Danny Price
So anyways, um awesome. That's all I have. ah Appreciate you guys listening as always. Again, if you know, if there's anything that you're wanting more follow-up on, you can just text or call me or Shane.
01:00:28
Danny Price
We'd love to chat with you, especially if it's like controversial stuff and you're like, I don't agree with that.
01:00:29
Shane
Yeah.
01:00:31
Danny Price
I don't i want to hear why you don't agree.
01:00:33
Shane
Yeah.
01:00:33
Danny Price
Cause I'm very curious.
01:00:33
Shane
We love to hear that stuff.
01:00:34
Danny Price
Yeah. um Both of us, our personality is we're more, I don't want to say challenging, but most both of us are not going to be offended if you ever want to just bring stuff to us and just ask about it.
01:00:41
Shane
Nope. And chances are you might point something out that we said that we might go, oh, yeah, no, that's not how we meant that.
01:00:48
Danny Price
Yeah, there's that barrier of I fumble over my words. I'm sure you guys are aware of that by now, but if you've been listening for a while and Shane's a lot better of a communicator, but even him, you know he'll say stuff and mess it up and like, oh, that's not what I meant to say.
01:01:00
Danny Price
So anyways, um thank you guys for your listening.
01:01:00
Shane
Yep.
01:01:05
Danny Price
Really appreciate it. And again, just think of questions as you're going through this, you know listening to the sermons. um And again, if I haven't had one for a second. um I'm working on one right now, but there is the opportunity if you have a bigger question, like a like a larger, I want to hear about this topic that we could take take a stab at. So if you're curious about that stuff, I i i don't i never want to take that off the table. if you're It's not just pertaining the sermon. If you want to hear about you know some bigger issue in the world or in the you know theology or whatever it is, we'll we'll try our best. so
01:01:37
Danny Price
All right. Sounds good. We will see you guys next week. Bye-bye.
01:01:40
Shane
All right.