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Colossians | No More Regrets Episode 34
37 Plays4 days ago
In this Episode Danny and Shane discuss the sermon Tony gave on Sunday. We discuss the importance of Colossians, How we serve in Ministry, and the Struggle Paul felt to bring the Gospel to the Church, and Saints.
Videos on Saints/Orthodox/Catholic Church
Praying to the Saints: A Protestant Critique https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQRQ-bbmVvI
Is Icon Veneration a Big Deal? What Most People Miss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoU4PO5d6kQ
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:32
Danny Price
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to episode 34 of the Table Talk Discussions podcast. I'm Danny Price. I'm here with Shane. I'm really excited. If you guys have not listened to it, we just recorded an episode on Sunday. We're recording this one on Wednesday, but on Sunday we did one with David Finley, and it had nothing to do with the sermon. It had to do with Christianese terms and definitions. It was really fun. It was kind of a ah true table talk, like literally at the table with one microphone we all shared um going over that. So that was that was really fun. if you haven't listened to that, check that out.
Sermon Context and Challenges
00:01:02
Danny Price
We are going to get into...
00:01:03
Shane
Have good time.
00:01:04
Danny Price
Yeah, it was i had I had so much fun doing that. That was was a lot of fun.
00:01:06
Shane
Yeah.
00:01:08
Danny Price
We are going to get into the sermon today. That was the whole point was to do that as a one-off. We'll, we'll continue to do episodes like that, that are little bit of a different rhythm as we can. It's time consuming to, you know, find time to do that, especially if you're trying to record with more than one person.
00:01:22
Danny Price
If it's just me, I can just throw it together. But even for me and Shane finding time, it's, you know, we're always trying to work around other's schedules. And I was actually
Shane's Illness and Tony's Sermon
00:01:30
Danny Price
late this morning. So just the way it is with life.
00:01:32
Danny Price
Um,
00:01:33
Shane
Yeah.
00:01:34
Danny Price
Cool. So yeah, Tony preached on Sunday. Shane, honestly, your voice sounds insanely better right now. How are you feeling? Just really quick update on that.
00:01:40
Shane
Yeah, no, it um it's feeling a lot better. And and what's funny is it felt better on Sunday. I just, I got worried because I got that cold going around on Wednesday night. And so Thursday, I just called them.
00:01:52
Shane
And, you know, unfortunately, preaching's not, it the more time you can give someone, the better the better it is. So I didn't want to call them on Saturday, you know, so I was like, oh,
00:02:03
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:04
Shane
like So I was like, well, I'm going call him now. and and just And then once he was going on it, I didn't want to on Saturday afternoon go, hey, I'm going to take it back now because that's a lot you know it's a lot of work doing the prep.
00:02:15
Shane
um But what was what was cool was i still had sent him my notes.
00:02:15
Danny Price
Yeah. No, it is. It's it's a lot.
00:02:21
Shane
So I sent him my sermon notes. And he did a really good job of keeping to the – the outline, if you will, of my sermon, but then making it his own.
00:02:31
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:02:33
Shane
So
00:02:34
Danny Price
Yeah, that honestly, if it was me, I mean, I've never really taught a sermon church or anything. But if it was me, I think I'd be more nervous to use someone else's notes because I'd be like, well, is that what they wanted to say?
00:02:45
Danny Price
i would just kind of want to just
00:02:45
Shane
yeah.
00:02:46
Danny Price
burn it to the ground and start over again. So good for him for doing that. Yeah,
No Regrets Theme Exploration
00:02:50
Danny Price
Tony is a great teacher. And I was super impressed. I don't know if everyone knew that that was the situation surrounding the events. So if you're just an average Mountain View attender, you might have not known that. But that was really cool for him to be able to come in.
00:03:02
Danny Price
That was literally like three days heads up and throw that together. So awesome.
00:03:06
Shane
Yeah. Yeah. So pray for me because I'm hoping everything will stay good and I'll be able to do well on Sunday.
00:03:11
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:03:13
Shane
so
00:03:14
Danny Price
Exactly. um Just to jump into the questions, the first question really is just kind of an overview of the sermon. Is there anything, because it was technically your sermon that you were trying to teach, was there anything that you were like, I i wanted to say this at least, or even reinforce a point that he made because you weren't able to teach on Sunday? Is there anything that you were like, man, ah that was like the biggest deal to me. I wanted to make sure that was communicated.
00:03:35
Shane
Well, the only thing is, and I had a couple of people mention it. They were like, I didn't really get the, you know, the no regrets thing and and where he was going with that part. And what what I probably would have done had i been preaching it is I would have pulled back more to that at the end.
00:03:52
Shane
And just kind of, you know, because say he did a good job of talking about how like Paul lived his life with no
00:03:53
Danny Price
Hmm.
Personal Reflections on Ministry
00:03:57
Shane
regrets.
00:03:57
Shane
But kind of that, that no matter what your shape is, no matter what your personality is, no matter what your gifts are, If you live your life in such a way where you're you're living under the Lord, you're you're sold out to his kingdom, then then you don't have to have any regrets about how you live your life. you know and And kind of maybe even dug in a little bit to the idea that we get so caught up in the life we're trying to build rather than building our life in Christ. And, and Paul is just such a good example of that.
00:04:35
Shane
um So, so anyway, that's, I would have maybe dug a little bit bigger bigger into that. So.
00:04:42
Danny Price
OK. Was the no regrets, was that your idea? Because that was the one part where i was like, I can see how you get that from that passage, but i was that wouldn't that wouldn't have stood out to me. Was that your idea more?
00:04:50
Shane
Yeah, no, that was that yeah that was my idea.
00:04:51
Danny Price
OK.
00:04:52
Shane
And and there again, we what you even said, like that'd be kind of hard if it was someone else's notes. You know, and we probably, we could have talked more about it and that of thing. But my guess is he was trying to work in what I thought, but it was hard for him to grasp exactly what I was thinking.
00:05:06
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:05:09
Shane
So...
00:05:09
Danny Price
Totally.
00:05:10
Shane
ah
00:05:11
Danny Price
But yeah, it I thought man he's he's a great communicator and he doesn't seem... um like I don't know if it's just like ah the way that he exudes himself, but like he doesn't seem nervous or like rushing through his thoughts or trying to like figure out what he's going to say. like He seems like he knows what he's to and it sounds like he did some prep. and he like Even the illustrations and stories, like those are things that I was learning. i was like, i I'd heard about that battle, for example, or that at the ending, his little ah illustration with the Japanese guy. like that's It's cool. It brings it home.
00:05:41
Danny Price
You can definitely tell like he's he's put some work
Finding Your Place in Ministry
00:05:43
Danny Price
into it. So good job, Tony, on on that.
00:05:43
Shane
Yeah, no, yeah he definite is's he's definitely a good communicator. so
00:05:47
Danny Price
That was good. um So as Tony did mention that you had told him that you really love these passages and that he had kind of referenced that we're going to talk about in the podcast. So what specifically is was it specifically the end of chapter one or the beginning beginning of chapter two or like, what was your favorite or what is your favorite?
00:06:03
Danny Price
Talk about that a little bit.
00:06:05
Shane
Yeah, and it's it's really verse two and three of chapter two.
00:06:05
Danny Price
Why did he say that? Okay.
00:06:11
Shane
Um, where Paul after saying he he wants him to know the struggle that he's had. Um, and then it ah he says that their hearts may be encouraged being knit together in love to reach all the rich, to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God.
00:06:28
Shane
I'm stumbling over my words and the knowledge of God's mystery, which is Christ in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
00:06:31
Danny Price
You're good. Hmm.
00:06:37
Shane
And. I'm actually going touch on this tonight at the midweek, but... Those verses, I was, um I'd probably been here in Utah for about 18 months.
00:06:53
Shane
And i was reading through Colossians, just in my own personal study. And I remember when I hit this passage, it just really hit me of, you know, we had, you know, Paul's talking here about how he's kind of sold out to this, right?
00:07:09
Shane
And, you know, we had moved our family, we'd uprooted our family from everything.
00:07:09
Danny Price
No,
00:07:14
Shane
um came up here not having any idea how financially it was going to work out, how, if we were going to be able to build a church, if we were any of those things. And so not trying to equate myself with Paul, but I definitely kind of, definitely felt like I resonated with that.
00:07:29
Danny Price
no no yeah hu
00:07:34
Shane
Like, like, Hey, I really have, I've struggled for this. I've, I've, I've sat, I'm making sacrifices for this. And, and, and verses two and three really hit me of,
00:07:40
Danny Price
Hmm. Yeah.
00:07:45
Shane
why am I doing it? And it's because I want exactly what he says. I want to see people's hearts being encouraged and, and, and have them grow in love.
00:07:53
Danny Price
yeah
00:07:55
Shane
And, and I love what he says right here to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God's mystery, which is Christ. So that idea, especially in the Mormon community where you have people that feel like they've got to like earn, earn, earn, earn.
00:08:10
Shane
And there's this huge burden. And I would say about a year and a half into the, um, being here, i I definitely had a better understanding of Mormonism than I did moving here.
00:08:21
Danny Price
Oh, yeah.
00:08:21
Shane
i felt like I'd become a ah decent student of it. And that idea of that, my hope was that us being here was going to help people find full assurance in Christ that they didn't have to wonder.
00:08:36
Shane
They didn't have to worry, um, that they just knew their, their life was in Christ.
Beyond Traditional Ministry Roles
00:08:41
Shane
And that's, that's what mattered. Um, And that he is the wisdom. He's the he's the hidden treasure that that nothing else really matters.
00:08:48
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:08:49
Shane
And so so anyway, it just kind of became kind of a life verse for me when of our time here moving moving here.
00:08:55
Danny Price
Huh.
00:08:57
Shane
So, yeah.
00:08:58
Danny Price
That's really cool. I had no idea. no And and that you not not that you explain it, like it totally lines up with how I'm sure you you felt and still feel um towards the people in Utah and just the community at large.
00:09:10
Danny Price
so that's that's really cool.
00:09:12
Shane
Yeah.
00:09:12
Danny Price
um Let's see here.
00:09:13
Shane
Yeah.
00:09:14
Danny Price
Is there anything else on on that? I'll just keep moving on with the questions unless you have more you want to touch on.
00:09:17
Shane
No, that was that was it. that That pretty much sums that up.
00:09:19
Danny Price
Cool.
00:09:21
Danny Price
this is the next question that I had, which was, how do we examine our lives to see where we best fit in service to God's kingdom? What tests or things in my life should I be looking at?
00:09:32
Danny Price
And I say that because he brought up the shape test and he was bringing up a little bit of that illustration of you might be in finance and you can still serve the Lord.
00:09:42
Danny Price
And you and he gave a bunch of different descriptions. You might be serving with special needs kids and you might and you can still serve serve the Lord and just the cool opportunities.
00:09:47
Shane
Yeah.
00:09:49
Danny Price
It's not just... you know, on stage, you know, in vocational ministry, you would call that in like actually getting paid or doing stuff for the church, you can still be serving the Lord. So how do how do I know, like ah pretend it's just me and I have no idea and I've never really examined this in my life. How do I know?
00:10:06
Danny Price
What do I take a test? Do I just pray about it? Do I just ask other people? How do i ascertain where I, where I fit in God's kingdom and where I should be serving?
00:10:16
Shane
Yeah. and and You know, the tests to me, um they're they're a tool, but that's it. I think a lot of people put too much into them. um i like to we yeah I like that we offer the test.
00:10:24
Danny Price
It's not like a final...
00:10:28
Shane
I think it gives it gets people thinking and all that, but I think the main way you know is by getting involved and, and starting to look at things go, why that sounds like I would somewhat enjoy that and then start serving in it, you know, and, and see, do I enjoy it? Does that a fit for me? um Do I, is it something that goes with my personality? You know, that kind of thing. And, and then if something isn't a fit,
00:10:57
Shane
moving on to something else, you know, not quitting that and going, okay, well now I'll just not do anything. And, you know, hopefully God will show me some, no, move on to something else.
00:11:03
Danny Price
yeah
00:11:05
Shane
Like, you know, um, you know, you're to me a really good example of this and that, you know, you're probably not to discount any of our other sound guys that are listening, but I would say you're one of our best sound guys.
00:11:18
Shane
And, you You know, to my knowledge, you are only doing that because someone kind of asked you to help out at Mountain Life years ago when you were a kid, right?
00:11:29
Danny Price
Oh, yeah. Yeah, true.
00:11:31
Shane
Yeah.
00:11:31
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:11:31
Shane
And my guess is you didn't really know much about it at that time.
00:11:35
Danny Price
Oh, zero. i was an idiot.
00:11:36
Shane
Yeah. But...
00:11:37
Danny Price
Still am, but more of an idiot then.
00:11:38
Shane
Yeah, but you you
Cultural Influences on Ministry
00:11:40
Shane
started doing it, and then you kind of have a tendency to be a self-proclaimed nerd. And as a self-proclaimed nerd, you like all the technology and you like learning how to tweak things just enough to get it a little bit better.
00:11:48
Danny Price
Fair.
00:11:54
Shane
like That's kind of your personality in everything you do. I watch you do that, right?
00:11:57
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:11:58
Shane
You're good at like like, if we just do this, it'll get a little bit better, get a little bit better. and you know And that's a perfect personality to run sound. Yeah. You know, so, um you know, the only thing we better that might add to it is if you were also an amazing musician, you know, but.
00:12:07
Danny Price
Yeah, no, accurate.
00:12:14
Shane
um
00:12:15
Danny Price
Yeah, one day.
00:12:16
Shane
But but but the technology, you know, it you you just started serving and getting into it.
00:12:17
Danny Price
love love to get it love i'd love to get into that.
00:12:24
Shane
And then you know, from there, you continued to grow in different different things. And, you know, and I would say most the areas I see you serve kind of fit into that area, you know, even from, from doing this, um, you know, to other places I've seen you help with, you know, maybe setting up tech stuff, you know, or, um, installing things that can be, even around the house, right.
00:12:46
Shane
Helping Tonya and I, you'll help, help us with setting up our internet and anything, anything like that.
00:12:51
Danny Price
yeah
00:12:51
Shane
So it's just kind of your giftedness at some level. Um, And, and, but even then it doesn't mean you have to stick with that. Right. Like, like even doing this, now you're starting to branch into teaching kind of at a different level, a different way, but it's moving in that direction. And you, you know, you might find in seven to years, you're teaching classes.
Encouragement in Daily Ministry
00:13:12
Danny Price
Yeah. Well, we'll see, potentially. I don't know what I teach on on how to do a podcast.
00:13:19
Shane
That.
00:13:19
Danny Price
um
00:13:19
Shane
Yeah.
00:13:21
Danny Price
um Yeah, that that that's a good point. And maybe we can maybe pull on that just for a second of like, i I want to be careful telling people, and I'm sure you do too, and this is not what you're saying. you might You might have a giftedness or like an inclination towards something, but that doesn't mean that you need to only do things that...
00:13:39
Danny Price
you feel comfortable with. That's a good place to start, especially if you're starting there.
00:13:41
Shane
Yeah, no, yeah.
00:13:43
Danny Price
Cause a lot of people don't want to serve or don't want to even and regardless of like church serving, but just like even in your life, like if you're serving God, like serving the kingdom, if you're just like, well, I'm not very outgoing.
00:13:55
Danny Price
So I'm not going to tell anyone about the gospel or anything. I'm just going to X, Y, Z thing, you know, in my job, I'm just going to live a, life of integrity, that's good. But that doesn't mean that you can't learn how to tell people about the gospel, for example.
00:14:09
Shane
Yeah, absolutely.
00:14:09
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:14:10
Shane
Well, so if I could real quick, I guess what I would say to that is there are things we're called to serve. I think each of us has a purpose, right?
00:14:22
Danny Price
yeah
00:14:22
Shane
And it's a little bit different. But then on top of that purpose, each of us as Christ followers are commissioned, which means not just a commissioning is not just a like, hey, I would love it if you did this.
00:14:35
Shane
A commissioning is you better do this, right?
00:14:35
Danny Price
Yes.
00:14:38
Shane
If you're commissioned in the military, you better not come back and not have done it.
00:14:42
Danny Price
It's not a suggestion. It's not a suggestion.
00:14:44
Shane
Yeah.
00:14:44
Danny Price
That
00:14:45
Shane
And so we're each commissioned to do certain things. And that is to
Paul's Ministry Dedication
00:14:49
Shane
share a faith with in Christ. That is to raise up disciples, which means we have to be disciples like, right?
00:14:55
Shane
Like, you know, me, we, what we talk all time. I'm not comfortable studying. Studying is not my, like, I don't love to study, but that doesn't mean I don't, get I get to just not grow in my faith and and not understand better.
00:15:04
Danny Price
doesn't mean you can't. Yeah.
00:15:09
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:09
Shane
So So we we still have these things we're called to do. i See, I would say the same thing about giving. You know, there are people who try to get out of giving by saying, well, you know, that's just, I serve.
00:15:20
Shane
I don't really, i don't give, I serve. And i'm i'm always like, well, so do both. God calls us to do both. We don't, you know, there's things that we're called to do that we don't get to go.
00:15:27
Danny Price
yeah
00:15:29
Shane
Well, that's not really my comfort zone. um
00:15:32
Danny Price
Yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's a good point.
00:15:32
Shane
Yeah, so definitely.
00:15:34
Danny Price
And I think with that, there's different expressions of different, you know, in your, in your job, for example, if you're not working in ministry, there's different expressions of in your job of how you can serve the kingdom, so to speak.
00:15:45
Danny Price
That's not necessarily like what this, what we're talking about here, like serving the church or being involved in XYZ ministry. Um, That kind of goes into my next question. um And we can kind of just keep going back and forth between these two questions. But the next question I had was, why do we often think we can't be, and then quotes, in ministry because we're not up front on stage or like being a pastor or something or doing work for the church? Why is it that we like to separate ministry to Sunday mornings or to a church?
00:16:11
Danny Price
And I can't be in ministry in my life and as a financial advisor or a garbage man or whatever.
00:16:19
Shane
Some of that is our culture. I think there's a big big mix of things. Our culture that already just likes to look to people who are up in up in front of people.
00:16:31
Shane
like right i mean We have a culture that everybody wants to be an influencer at some level. right so So we look to that.
00:16:38
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:16:40
Shane
Some of it is the way things are arranged and that we have a stage. And so when people think of church as Sunday morning, they you know they think of, well, that' those are the people ministering.
00:16:53
Shane
um So a lot of that, and then that's the third thing I was gonna say is, when somebody is the way people think of the word church, right? If you think of church as what you what we come to on Sunday morning, then you're gonna see those people up on stage as the main players, if you will, right?
00:17:08
Danny Price
That yeah.
00:17:10
Shane
But if you if you understand that the church is the body of Christ, the church is things that we all do to advance God's kingdom, then you understand that everybody doing every kind of little job on a Sunday morning, they're just as important.
00:17:21
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:17:26
Shane
Everybody doing things that don't even happen on Sunday morning are just as important.
00:17:27
Danny Price
Yep.
00:17:30
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:17:31
Shane
In fact, I think in many ways, it's the stuff that happens not on Sunday morning that is the most important stuff. It's the people who bring meals to others who are in need. it's um It's people who lead Bible studies. It's people who do reach out to their friends and invite their friends to to church. and because You know, it doesn't matter what I preach on a Sunday morning if if nothing's happening during the week to make people go, hey, I would love to go check that out.
Personal Testimonies and Growth
00:18:02
Shane
I'd love to, you know, because, you know, what's really cool is like this week, somebody asked on Facebook um about, ah hey, k I'm looking to find a church in the Hebrew Valley.
00:18:03
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:18:15
Shane
And there's like 140 comments.
00:18:15
Danny Price
Uh-huh.
00:18:17
Shane
And of those 140, there's like 80 of them, all from MBF.
00:18:22
Danny Price
What about Mountain mountain View? Hmm.
00:18:23
Shane
and And saying why they think MBF is a great church. And you know what's really cool? Maybe five of them say something about the preaching. Everything else is about other stuff.
00:18:33
Danny Price
They're all like, hmm.
00:18:37
Shane
it's It's about why it's a great church.
00:18:37
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:18:39
Shane
And and and they're not mentioning, oh, you've got to come hear this preaching.
00:18:40
Danny Price
That's cool.
00:18:45
Shane
you know That's not's not what it's about.
00:18:47
Danny Price
Interesting. Oh, yeah that that that's a great that's a great perspective. I like that. um Yeah, I would just encourage people listening um ministry is not, I've heard this, this is not my line, but ministry is not what you do, it's who you are. And it's a lot more of your the outpouring of your heart. And kind of like talking about, you know, what Shane was saying about called in Colossians at the beginning of Paul's heart and him struggling for the believers and wanting them to know this and be fully assured. If that's your heart about people, your your arena might be different and changed based off your job or the friends and the circles that you have, but it's not
00:19:23
Danny Price
you're not any less of a advocate for Jesus because you're not in ministry or you know in true, I guess, vocational ministry where you're getting paid to do that. And that's that's like your thing.
00:19:35
Danny Price
And you can be just as part of like just shane and Shane saying, you can be just as much a part of a church and not be upfront and be making huge impacts.
00:19:35
Shane
Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:42
Danny Price
A lot of time it's those dirty jobs. It's visiting the sick people and bringing meals and all this stuff that it's not glamorous. It's not as fun. And that's the stuff that's making a really big difference in people's lives.
00:19:54
Danny Price
So yeah, just not to discount, I guess not the the bottom line of that would just be not to discount yourself if you're you have a quieter spirit or a little bit more of a quiet disposition. And you're like, these are these are my things that I like to do to serve. And I want to be in ministry and i want to, you know, love on others. And this is how I'm doing it.
00:20:09
Danny Price
Don't be discouraged that you're not teaching or doing music or doing worship or whatever.
Flexibility in Ministry Roles
00:20:16
Shane
Yeah, absolutely.
00:20:19
Danny Price
Let's see here. is there anything else that you wanted to touch on with that? I guess really quick, the shape the shape test is the one I was referring to. are there other tests that people use to kind of talk about personal giftings and ministry or is is that kind of the main one?
00:20:31
Shane
Yeah, no, there's um like Will Creek Church had one a while back. I think i can't remember what it was called, but. There's all sorts of spiritual gifts tasks you can do.
00:20:42
Shane
The thing about that is those only focus on your spiritual gifts. They don't dig into like your your personality, your experiences and that kind of stuff.
00:20:51
Danny Price
Okay.
00:20:51
Shane
But it yeah, there's a lot of stuff.
00:20:54
Danny Price
Okay. Yeah, I've done... i think I did the shape test. It was a while back. I think it was back when I was younger. And it was it was okay. It was like, yeah, that's interesting. And again, again the the issue that I have with a lot of those personality tests, even like so like bigger ones like StrengthsFinders or the... um Myers-Briggs or stuff like that. it's It's very heavily weighted on how you perceive yourself.
00:21:18
Danny Price
And sometimes it you you can kind of guide the the test, I guess, towards a result that you would... Like, I want myself to be outgoing. So I'm going to kind of answer questions as if I was more outgoing. It's like, it's hard to sometimes to be honest with yourself about who you really are. And it also can kind of make you go, you know what? I'm not very outgoing or whatever. And so, yeah, see the test even proves it. I'm ah i'm not very outgoing. And so I'm going to really avoid learning how to be outgoing or how to whatever it is. i mean, that's just a, that's just an example, but you can use those those tests help
00:21:53
Danny Price
you know For example, the Enneagram, I know people who do this, or I've heard of people doing this, of like, well, I'm a one. So i this is how I relate. So suck it up. like Deal with it. like it's It's almost like i'm not I'm refusing to grow and refusing to learn how to do new things because I'm pigeonholing myself into this specific personality type. So just as a caution, I don't think there's anything wrong with them, but as a cautionary tale, don't, don't take a test and then be like, well, that's who I am. And I'm i'm only this and I can only be anything but this. Um, that's not, that's not the case.
00:22:24
Danny Price
So, and I've taken a lot of those tests.
00:22:25
Shane
Yeah,
00:22:25
Danny Price
So I'm sure you would agree with that kind of, that sentiment.
00:22:29
Shane
yeah absolutely.
00:22:30
Danny Price
Um, next question I had, which is why is it important that all mystery and all knowledge can be found in Christ? And that's from chapter two versus two, two through five. Why is that? Why is that concept important?
00:22:42
Shane
um You know, it's interesting. I'm going to refer to this week's passage um a little bit on that. um
00:22:48
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:22:49
Shane
So, and we're going looking at six through 15 this week. And in that, this passage, he's kind of connecting to what he's saying in the the passage we're talking about today.
00:23:01
Shane
And he, you know, so he says, therefore, and you've heard me say many times that, you know, whenever there's a therefore, you ask what it's there for. So he's saying, Hey, based on all this stuff, you,
00:23:09
Danny Price
Oh, wow.
00:23:12
Shane
you need to root your life in Christ. And, um and the words in him or with him referring to Christ are used eight times in just this
00:23:16
Danny Price
a
Commitment Despite Hardships
00:23:23
Shane
10 verses.
00:23:24
Shane
And, and um it, it, it just as a reminder to me, as I was going through it, that we, the only i identity that mattered matters for us,
00:23:24
Danny Price
oh wow
00:23:42
Shane
is whether we're in Christ or not in Christ. And so as soon as we, i I'm gonna read let me go back and read read your question. Why is it important that all mystery and knowledge can be found in Christ?
00:23:55
Danny Price
yeah
00:23:56
Shane
So just going back to that, that as soon as we try to have our identity and find, find some other knowledge, some other thing that's going to ah better our life or give us a higher existence or whatever it is we're looking for. If we're looking in, in for these, in these other things, we're, we always end up falling short and, um,
00:24:21
Shane
we We don't actually receive the full fulfillment that that Christ offers. You know what mean? christ taught we In Christ, we can find peace that surpasses all understanding. We can find joy in all of our circumstances, right?
00:24:33
Shane
We can, um you know, the fruit of the Spirit, all that thing all of that is abundant in our life if we truly are finding our our full life in Him, right?
00:24:38
Danny Price
yeah
00:24:44
Shane
But the problem is we have so many people and even those of us who are really seeking to find it in him, we get diverted and we're trying, we keep seeking to find it in these other things.
00:24:55
Shane
And then we don't experience the fullness of Christ in our life. So the reason it's important is because we, we want to experience the fullness of Christ and we're never going to until we're fully with him in, in, um, eternity.
00:25:09
Shane
But, but, um,
00:25:10
Danny Price
Right.
00:25:13
Shane
I'm kind of rambling now at this at this point.
00:25:15
Danny Price
No, no, not at all.
00:25:15
Shane
but
00:25:16
Danny Price
This is all great.
00:25:16
Shane
um Okay, well, so so just that idea that it's important because everything else falls short. And until people begin to understand that, they're always going to be seeking and searching.
00:25:34
Danny Price
Yeah, that's perfect. No, I don't mind that you ramble on that because I think that's that's the whole idea is just like like kind of teach through that or teach what you what what is meant through that.
00:25:43
Shane
All right.
00:25:44
Danny Price
um That was really good.
00:25:46
Shane
iy
00:25:46
Danny Price
and don't I don't have a ton to add to that other than I'm just pulling up the passage in front of me right now. I think kind of like what you were saying where it says, in whom all are hidden, all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Just like I would just echo that of like,
00:26:04
Danny Price
That's it. I think in Christianity, I'm guilty of this, and in life, we all don't want to keep the main thing the main thing. We want to add all this other stuff. And I think of, this is like kind of a sidetrack, but just for example, with fitness, this is a big um this is a big talking point for me. But a lot of people will want to say, well, it's the seed oils, and it's the...
00:26:26
Danny Price
It's whether or not you cold plunge and it's whether or not you do essential oils or whatever it is, like all these like side things that maybe have like micro benefits, but we're not
Understanding Sainthood Differences
00:26:35
Danny Price
staring the big ugly, you know, we're not staring the big ugly thing right in the face, which is, are you getting enough sleep? Are you drinking enough water? Are you eating a balanced diet? Are you exercising? Like it, man, if you can get those, those down, why not? Why not? Why not worry about those? But we're so quick to go, Oh, but it's the, it's this cons it's this conspiracy theory of, know,
00:26:54
Danny Price
big pharma that's getting stuff into our crops and all this stuff. and it's like, yeah, maybe there's stuff that's accurate with that, but keep the main thing, the main thing. And I think same thing with, with Jesus to kind of, it's not a perfect, uh,
00:27:06
Danny Price
example, but a lot of times we're like, well, what about this side topic? What about this side topic or this? Do you have this eschatology or this eschatology or this or this or this? And it's like, oh my goodness, are we focusing on Jesus? Are we focusing on what he did on on the cross for us? Are we focusing on the gospel?
00:27:22
Danny Price
let's Let's keep the main thing, the main thing. um And i'm wondering i'm I'm thinking that that's a little bit of the the line that Paul was on a little bit of like, hey, you might be trying to search for all these other mysteries and hidden knowledge and things, but it's all in Christ. Like don't don't discount you know, the main thing.
00:27:38
Danny Price
Do you have anything to add to that? or does it, does that make sense? Or is that kind of confusing?
00:27:41
Shane
No, yeah, no, that makes perfect sense.
00:27:41
Danny Price
what Yeah.
00:27:42
Shane
Yeah. i It's one of those, it's it's so simple, but it's not. You what mean? the The concept is simple, but it's so easy to get off of it.
00:27:51
Danny Price
Right.
00:27:56
Danny Price
Yeah. The next question I had, which was kind of verbiage and language that Paul uses, why does he always use words when he's talking about his ministry?
00:28:06
Danny Price
um Words like contend, struggle, toil, work. When he describes, like, that's how he describes, like, him trying to share the gospel and encourage and minister the believers. Like even at the beginning of this chapter of chapter two, for I want you to know how great a struggle I have for you.
00:28:20
Danny Price
He's always talking about how difficult it is. I'm just curious on your perspective. Just, you know, he writes that so many letters in the new Testament. Why is he always tying those words in with his ministry, with the gospel and trying to share it with other believers?
00:28:33
Shane
And I, yeah, I think because it was important to him and it was important to the point that he was always making sacrifices for it.
00:28:34
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:28:41
Shane
He, it wasn't just something. And I think he, the language is getting across.
00:28:44
Danny Price
Hmm. Hmm.
00:28:45
Shane
It's not just something he's doing. Hey, when, when I've got time or when it doesn't get in the way of, of what, you know, I've got scheduled or what I'm doing.
00:28:55
Shane
um You know, he, it's, it's something it's, it's the, of the highest priority In his life. And, and then he shows it by what he does. so It's not just his words.
00:29:07
Shane
He actually shows it. I mean I mean, right. I mean, we've all gone through the list. i mean, the guy was in prison, shipwrecked, stoned, right. I mean, falsely accused.
00:29:16
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:29:16
Shane
He was whipped, you know, all these things happen. Um, And he didn't, he wasn't deterred, but he kept at it. And so, um you know, like ah when I think of the word contend, the first thing i always think of is um boxing, you know, the contenders, you know, yeah, and and a contender.
00:29:32
Danny Price
A contender. Yeah.
00:29:34
Shane
um And, you know, so they're contending, they're they're pressing for something that is difficult to achieve, and they're going to take a beating doing it.
00:29:45
Shane
Right. um And so that's kind of how I look at Paul in his sharing. I mean, his ministry. But, you know, I'm going to I'm going to give an application for that.
00:29:57
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:29:58
Shane
That. That is what we're all there again, going back to what we were talking about. We all have a ministry. We all have a calling.
00:30:06
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:30:06
Shane
We should be contending in it. um And I'm not saying your ministry absolutely has to be within the church. There are some people I know who, um and what's funny is some of these people also have some serious ministries in the church. I'm going to give up a shout out to Lindsay Jefferson. um Lindsay Jefferson is one of these people. I would call what she does on her day-to-day, her job, She definitely sees it as a ministry. um You know, she she works with special needs kids and um she is within the school system. And and, you know, i know she uses opportunities to show God's love in that. But in that also, I mean, we probably have 20 people who come to this church because of her sharing her faith with them. So she's doing all that.
00:30:55
Shane
She's contending in her life, um you know, and that's just one person.
00:30:57
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:30:59
Shane
I mean, there's countless other people that are like that who are doing that. But, you know, so I I will just say for those listening, and this is not to dig on anyone, but, you know, if whatever you do in service to the Lord, maybe you, you so you totally see your job that way and you can point out how you're doing that, you know, and you can point out how you're, you're serving God at work.
00:31:29
Shane
Um, great. A lot of people don't. And a lot of people see their service just in like, they kind of like what they have at church is kind of the only place they're really serving. Um, If you're doing it only when it isn't in something that doesn't get in the way, there's a you're you're not doing it with the servant's heart.
00:31:48
Shane
You're doing it kind of to make yourself feel better probably. And then when other stuff gets in the way...
00:31:52
Danny Price
Hmm. Yeah.
00:31:56
Shane
it takes a backseat. Um, you know, so, so I would just challenge you to really look at that and say, Hey, am I willing to make sacrifices to continue to do this? You know, I'm there again, I'm going toot your horn here, Danny, for a second. And then,
00:32:13
Shane
you know I know even for you to do sound, and a lot of people go, well, it's just sound. Who cares? Blah, blah, blah. you know you you come down. First of all, a lot of people care because when it's not right, it drives everybody nuts. But um you know you drive 40 minutes on a Thursday night to come down to practice and and And do this.
00:32:32
Danny Price
I didn't last Thursday.
00:32:34
Shane
Yeah. And then some, a lot of times you end up now, so now that we've gone to third service, when you're on, on Sunday morning, you stay the night at our house, which I know is super inconvenient
Serving Church and Community
00:32:45
Shane
for you because you got to deal with the kids and all that.
00:32:45
Danny Price
fellow
00:32:47
Shane
You stay the night in our house because it's too early for you to have to get up and come and, and do it on, on Sunday. So, um you know, to me and that, you know, you might not see it that way, but I see that as you contending in that area of service so anyway yeah
00:33:03
Danny Price
that's That's fair. Yeah, there's more reasons to us staying the night too because Hannah works for the church and so it's not just, because but yeah, i get I get what you're saying.
00:33:07
Shane
no i know but but a lot of it it's just a lot of sacrifice you know and a lot of people a lot of people are as soon as as soon as it's like well it's ski season so i'm just not or it's whatever and you know they they just back out so
00:33:12
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:33:19
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:33:22
Danny Price
No, that's fair. Yeah, um just again to plug worship and production ministry of, yeah, with with three services and with practice, I mean, it is a it is a commitment. Yeah.
00:33:33
Danny Price
And it's, man it's so encouraging and so fun. I love it. But yeah, it is it is hard. It's especially, I i think of it's harder for musicians because not only do they have to show up on on thursday practice and on sunday for all those services like i do i come into it knowing the soundboard and knowing generally like okay i'll listen to the music ahead of time for maybe like five minutes of like okay what songs are we doing okay this is how it's supposed to sound from the record i'll try to you know be along those lines but they have to like actually practice that so that's even harder so if you're a musician listening to this hopefully that's a little bit of credit for you but like man it's it's not easy because even though you could technically come in and
00:33:59
Shane
Yeah.
00:34:08
Danny Price
fumble your way through a practice. If you don't have ah like actually a knowledge of the song and the chords the progressions and all this stuff, you're, you have to practice ahead of time. It's hard.
00:34:18
Shane
Yeah.
00:34:18
Danny Price
You can't really just walk into it.
00:34:18
Shane
I mean, people probably don't, people, lot there's a lot of people don't realize, I would say, especially now that we're at three services, the people who are volunteering to play in the band are probably averaging eight to 10 hours a week that they serve.
00:34:33
Shane
That's how long it takes have for them to to do that.
00:34:33
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah. No, I would say that's super fair. But yeah, that was a little bit of a
Commitment and Final Thoughts
00:34:40
Danny Price
sidetrack. Sorry. But yeah, exactly. um i i don't i I don't have anything else to add.
00:34:44
Danny Price
I don't want to make it sound, when I ask that question, like ministry has to be this slog. And it's just like, it's so difficult. It's so hard. I i wasn't trying to get get that across.
00:34:54
Danny Price
I was more just saying like, why does he use those words when he's talking about his his struggle?
00:34:57
Shane
Yeah. Well, and and there again, that's why it is important to find something you love.
00:35:03
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:35:03
Shane
Because when you love it, there's the reward. You you see the reward even in the struggle. You know, mean...
00:35:10
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:35:12
Shane
you know i mean leading a church is, is hard. I mean, people, people think, you know, there's a lot of joking people joke like, Oh, I only work on Sundays and everything, but, but I don't think a lot of people realize, you know, I'm, I'm leading an organization of, you know, really about 2000 people that call this their church.
00:35:17
Danny Price
Oh, geez.
00:35:22
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:35:29
Shane
I have to keep all these programs running all these things. I have staff I've got. And then on and top of that, every week I have to prepare these sermons. I can, so there's a, I work a lot of weeks, you know, it's if if to fifty five sixty hour a, week.
00:35:41
Shane
um
00:35:41
Danny Price
Oh, yeah, easy.
00:35:42
Shane
But, and it and it is hard and it, there are things that, you know, i've got all these weights of different people and the things that are going on in their lives on my shoulders and anything, but I love what I do.
00:35:53
Shane
So when you love what you do and you see the path, the purpose in it, it gives you the passion for the contending.
00:35:53
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:36:01
Shane
So yeah.
00:36:01
Danny Price
Yeah. Oh, that yeah, it's all worth it. I guess that's the biggest thing is you're not just struggling or working or toiling for nothing. It's arguably like one of the most valuable and biggest, greatest and greatest return on investment, I guess, of you know
00:36:09
Shane
Yeah.
00:36:15
Shane
Yeah.
Impact of Hidden Service Roles
00:36:16
Danny Price
eternal consequences.
00:36:16
Shane
Yeah. So that's, so that's why I, that's why I go back to why, why at the beginning of the conversation of it is great to find something you do like, sure.
00:36:25
Shane
We do have to do the things we don't like to some of those things, but in the extra, it is fun.
00:36:28
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:36:30
Shane
It is awesome. When you can find something, you're like, yeah, I enjoy that. i enjoy those people I'm with, or enjoy the activity I'm doing. Yeah. I mean, it's hard, but I enjoy it.
00:36:39
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:36:41
Shane
So yeah.
00:36:42
Danny Price
Yeah, no that's a great word. It's good encouragement. Let's see here.
00:36:47
Shane
Okay, wait, I'm going to toot, since we're not that long, I'm going to toot a couple other horns here real quick.
00:36:48
Danny Price
Last question. Oh.
00:36:52
Danny Price
Oh, that sounds.
00:36:52
Shane
um Another great example is, you i mean, you know me, I can kind of do some projects. Like i know I can kind of, I have tools and I know basically how they work, but it's it's not my, that's not my gifting.
00:37:06
Shane
But you know, i um we did that tiny home that we were finishing over this so in the backyard to kind of help to bless some people.
00:37:10
Danny Price
Uh-huh.
00:37:14
Shane
Yeah.
00:37:15
Danny Price
Uh-huh.
00:37:15
Shane
And, you know, I got in a pickle with it, and I i put a call out to some guys in the church, and there were there were probably – there were about 12 guys who came and helped.
00:37:26
Shane
But, you know, guys like Paul Deaton, who on the on your team, and and Heber Taylor, and Tyson Allred, and a couple others that I'm probably missing.
00:37:31
Danny Price
Yep. Paul's amazing. Yep.
00:37:38
Shane
i mean, they were there – I mean, those guys probably – put in 40, 60 hours, maybe more than that. And, you know, and it was a toil.
00:37:48
Shane
They, they, and that's on top of their other stuff that they were doing. It was a toil for them. They were contending for this because they saw the benefit and the blessing in it, but they also do enjoy that work.
00:37:58
Danny Price
and
00:38:01
Shane
It doesn't mean it wasn't hard. doesn't mean it wasn't a sacrifice, but it, man, it helps when you also kind of enjoy serving.
00:38:09
Danny Price
Yep. No, that's, that's great.
00:38:10
Shane
So.
00:38:11
Danny Price
Yeah.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:38:12
Danny Price
Great. No great. ah Great plug for everyone. That's there. Again, this, this is the crazy thing about the church is that so much of it is like behind the scenes like this, um, of like the body just interacting with each other. Like you would have not, if we didn't mention that in the podcast, you would not have known. And Paul, especially like, he's not like the kind of guy that's going to,
00:38:28
Shane
Go around talking about it.
00:38:28
Danny Price
look at me, look at me, look what I did. Yeah. And I was just, Oh, I was, I was, it was so hard, but I had to do it.
00:38:30
Shane
Yeah.
00:38:32
Danny Price
Cause I, you know, he's not that kind of guy that's tooting his own horn to use Shane's, to use Shane's language.
00:38:37
Shane
Yeah, I'm tooting horns.
00:38:38
Danny Price
Um, I don't like that.
00:38:39
Shane
Are we here tooting all sorts of horns today?
00:38:40
Danny Price
um
00:38:41
Shane
Yeah, it
00:38:42
Danny Price
Oh, last question. This is from Hannah. So I have to back up last. Let's see here. Last week I got on Hannah because I was like, she didn't ask this question.
00:38:48
Shane
yeah was definitely good.
00:38:51
Danny Price
Why didn't she tell me about this? Cause we would' have talked about it the podcast. Apparently was, that wasn't even the question. It was, it was this question that we're going to talk about. So I made her look all bad and I feel so bad. I'm so sorry, babe. Um,
00:39:02
Danny Price
So this is the question. The question was from Hannah. that Again, this is my wife. She was asking, what is a saint? Who are saints when it talks about the the word saints in the New Testament? So Shane, you want to tackle that for a second?
00:39:16
Danny Price
what what are What are saints?
00:39:16
Shane
Yeah, I mean...
00:39:18
Danny Price
Are we saints?
00:39:19
Shane
Yeah. So saints in the, whenever you read saints in the Bible, it literally is just referring to believers in Christ. um
00:39:26
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:39:26
Shane
You know, Ephesians one, one literally starts off. Paul is addressing the of church in Ephesus. And he literally just says to the saints who are in Ephesus, he's talking to the believers in Ephesus.
00:39:36
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:39:40
Shane
And we, we see it in a few other different places um as well.
00:39:43
Danny Price
and
00:39:44
Shane
And, um, and the word saint literally means, hang on, I gotta, I gotta to find my, my note, um, set apart, a whole holy one or set apart. So,
00:39:54
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:39:56
Shane
You know, and and Christ, where in no way are we holy, um but in Christ, we are holy. So, our per you know, we're not holy, but in Christ, we are holy. So we're saints because we are set apart from from others that don't know Christ, and and we are holy through him. So that's that's what the word means, and that's when you read it in the Bible, it's talking about believers. Now, that said, that can be confusing,
00:40:25
Shane
Because then people confuse it with when they hear the Catholic Church or maybe the Orthodox Church talk about saints.
00:40:31
Danny Price
Yep.
00:40:32
Shane
And you have like saint St. Augustine, um St. Francis of Assisi. um
00:40:36
Danny Price
Yep.
00:40:37
Shane
There's, you know, shoot, there's the patron saint of like, I don't know.
00:40:40
Danny Price
Everything.
00:40:41
Shane
I don't know how many there are.
00:40:41
Danny Price
St. Paul, St. Peter, St. Mary. Yeah, everything. Yeah.
00:40:44
Shane
um But there's a lot of saints. And that is a little bit different. um The, the Catholic church, I had to look this up. I didn't know any of this, how, it how they actually do it.
00:40:54
Shane
I mean, I kind of had an idea, but I didn't know.
00:40:56
Danny Price
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:40:57
Shane
um But um the Catholic church, they have a formal canonized. Saint like, so they have to, they can, people get to a point where they are honored as saints.
00:41:10
Shane
Um,
00:41:10
Danny Price
And it's only when they're dead. It's not when they're alive. Is that right?
00:41:12
Shane
Yes.
00:41:12
Danny Price
With the Catholic Church?
00:41:12
Shane
And yeah, it's only once, once they're dead.
00:41:13
Danny Price
Yeah. So they have to be dead.
00:41:15
Shane
And usually it's through, um evidence in their life of, of heroic virtue. Um, if there was miracles that were attributed, attributed to them in some way, shape or form.
00:41:28
Shane
Um, and then, um, and then through that, the church actually does like investigation and like creates a report on why the person, should be considered, and then um and then they get declared by the Pope as saints.
00:41:43
Danny Price
The Pope, right. Yeah. it's got it's It's a very official, you're dead and you're you've exhibited all this stuff and then you get you get brought in.
00:41:44
Shane
Yeah.
00:41:51
Danny Price
i do I do think, I can't remember.
00:41:52
Shane
Yeah.
00:41:54
Danny Price
I know Orthodox. So Orthodox and the Catholic Church, they split.
00:41:56
Shane
Well, yeah, there's a, day yeah, go ahead. If you, yeah, so if you have, go ahead and don't you take the Orthodox if you have it.
00:42:01
Danny Price
Well, I have a little bit of that. I just know a little bit from just research. So Orthodox Christianity, which is a, ah it's a form of traditional Christianity. They split from the Catholic church. Protestants split 500 years later.
00:42:13
Danny Price
Orthodox splits one in the year 1054-ish, right around time. right around that time
00:42:17
Shane
Would they say they split or would they say the Catholic Church split?
00:42:19
Danny Price
well They call it the great schism. And there's different schisms in the church.
00:42:23
Shane
Yeah.
00:42:25
Danny Price
But again, yeah, Orthodox would say they have the true church where Catholics say they have the true church. So there's a whole, that's a whole nother podcast.
00:42:34
Shane
Sorry.
00:42:34
Danny Price
But Orthodox Christianity, they don't, because they don't have a Pope, they have a much more like simple, simpler, organic like form of, um they have, I think, I think you still have to have been, I think it's still when you're dead.
00:42:34
Shane
Yep.
00:42:42
Shane
Yep.
00:42:48
Danny Price
And I think you still have to have been a I don't want to say beneficial. That sounds kind of weird, but you still have to be a honorable person that served in the church. And I don't know if the whole miracles thing, if like you have to have, have, have miracles surrounding you or what the situation with that is with Orthodox.
00:43:03
Danny Price
Did you look at that Shane? I didn't actually look at that. I just know that it's a lot simpler because they don't have a Pope.
00:43:05
Shane
Yeah, I they i don't think they have. Yeah, it's definitely organic. It's definitely after they're dead. um And it is, it can kind of, it sometimes just kind of starts happening. They get, they just start, can, from what I can tell, it it's almost more just like higher ups in the church will just start referring to them.
00:43:24
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:43:26
Shane
and And it either takes or it doesn't almost.
00:43:26
Danny Price
Yep. Yeah.
00:43:29
Shane
there Because there is no one person where that, that, um good So I, cause I would have thought that there would be like a board, right. or someplace that made that decision.
00:43:39
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:43:39
Shane
But the one I can tell that is not the case. Now I think both of us would admit we're speaking out of ignorance on this. We're only going off of a little bit of research we did. So, you know, if someone has some, you know, a clear explanation.
00:43:53
Shane
I'm fine with that, but, but it's definitely different than the, than um the Pope.
00:43:53
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:43:57
Shane
and And, what I could tell, it didn't have to show that there were, um, miracles surrounding them.
00:44:03
Danny Price
It doesn't. Okay. Because I know Catholic, but the Catholic saints, it does.
00:44:04
Shane
Yeah.
00:44:06
Danny Price
There are saints that overlap and crossover between the two that they would hold the saints.
00:44:11
Shane
Yeah. Oh, a lot of them.
00:44:13
Danny Price
But after that that great schism, their list differs a little bit because there's different people and they don't necessarily claim to seem the same claim the same saints.
00:44:13
Shane
Yeah. A lot of them.
00:44:17
Shane
Yeah.
00:44:21
Danny Price
Yeah. But yeah, if you want to dig into that more, i I have resources on Orthodox Christianity and Catholic Christianity. I can maybe put a couple of videos down there. The one thing that they do differently with saints is they, what's called veneration, which is,
00:44:37
Danny Price
but Some people will say, well, they they they worship or they pray to saints. That's kind of a misnomer a little bit. it's They do in a sense. They pray to the to these saints on and as like a like a conduit to Jesus. So they will will have this. they you know Each issue, each saint, each patron saint has something that they have kind of like dominion over, so to speak. And so what they'll do is they'll pray to so-and-so saint, not as that saint's going to actually complete it or do what they're praying for, but that that saint is going to carry that message to Jesus, to God.
00:45:09
Danny Price
And they can kind of get, it's almost like getting a hold of God through the saint.
00:45:09
Shane
Yeah.
00:45:13
Danny Price
They also have icons and different images that are, ah go ahead.
00:45:15
Shane
Well, actually... Well, just real quick, the way I've heard it explained is, you know how Hebrews says, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses. And so they're taught, they're looking at it as like, hey, do we all even, I mean, even as as Protestants would agree, all of these believers, all of these saints are are with Jesus in heaven.
00:45:24
Danny Price
Yes.
00:45:37
Shane
And so in a sense,
00:45:37
Danny Price
Yes.
00:45:40
Shane
It's audience of when we're praying, it's it's kind of, they all have audience of that. And so we're kind of asking those saints while they're in the that audience of Jesus to to kind of kind of almost cheer on our requests, if you will, kind of the way I had it.
00:45:46
Danny Price
Correct. Yeah.
00:45:58
Danny Price
Yes, essentially. Yes.
00:45:59
Shane
Yeah.
00:45:59
Danny Price
It's like, it's an intercessory, I don't know how to say that word, intercessory relationship.
00:46:02
Shane
Yeah.
00:46:06
Danny Price
It's not like you're at, I don't believe from what I can tell that Catholics or Orthodox are praying to the saints, like dear St.
00:46:11
Shane
No.
00:46:12
Danny Price
Mary, do this for me. I think it's more of a dear St. Mary. Yeah. an Intercede on my behalf to God.
00:46:17
Shane
Yeah, on my behalf. Speak on my behalf, if you would.
00:46:18
Danny Price
Yeah. On my behalf. Yeah.
00:46:20
Shane
You know, kind of like you would, hey, put in a good word with me for this girl, you know, that that kind of thing when you're looking to date someone.
00:46:24
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:46:27
Danny Price
ah
00:46:28
Shane
oh
00:46:28
Danny Price
um And then they have icons. So you've heard of like icon veneration, perhaps. And that typically is like their images on like a picture, or they have something that was once theirs. and The churches, both catholic Catholic and Orthodox do this, where they'll have those icons that they venerate, or they they don't worship these icons, but they very hold them in very high esteem and value.
00:46:48
Danny Price
a Protestant like myself and Shane would be a little bit skeptical as to venerating icons or venerating saints, because it's not really found in scripture in say in a very clear way where you would go, that's what we're supposed to do. It's different to honor someone when they're dead, as opposed to hold them in that kind of sainthood with that kind of power.
00:47:08
Danny Price
Again, that's a different debate for a different day, but hopefully that gives you guys a little bit of a picture of the way that different traditional church you know histories view saints and what saints are. I would say saints are people that are alive and also that are dead, but people that are like, we like we we would be considered the saints.
00:47:24
Danny Price
um
00:47:24
Shane
Yeah.
00:47:25
Danny Price
as believers. And I think you can totally be a saint and be dead. I don't know if there's a special sainthood that is bestowed. um You know, again, we don't recognize the power of the Catholic church as Protestants. So it's a little bit different for us.
00:47:36
Danny Price
Anything else to add to that, Shane? I know that was, that was kind of a can of worms to open up a little bit, but hopefully that provides a little clarity.
00:47:42
Shane
Yeah, no, I think that's for, you know, for our listeners, that's probably all as much interest as as anyone has.
00:47:47
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah, sure. Um, there's I think there's a couple of videos I can think of. I'll link below in case you want to dig into what Saints are or what they're not.
00:47:58
Danny Price
Because there is, again, just like any religion, it's easier to attack the surface level things. And a lot of people will make up arguments and go, ha ha, you prayed this you you pray to Paul.
00:48:03
Shane
Yeah. we We make a character.
00:48:06
Danny Price
Yeah, a caricature.
00:48:07
Shane
Yeah, we make a character of it.
00:48:08
Danny Price
You pray to Paul. You pray to Mary. you pray It's like, well, kind of. So just want to be careful of respecting their beliefs and representing them well.
00:48:16
Shane
Yeah.
00:48:17
Danny Price
um So just not not totally just taking them off what they actually are. So anyways, um that was the last of my questions.
00:48:20
Shane
Yeah.
00:48:23
Danny Price
Is there anything else you wanted to add, Shane, as we wrap up?
00:48:25
Shane
No, I think that was pretty good.
00:48:26
Danny Price
Cool. Awesome. um Let's see here. Trying think if there's any announcements or anything on, I know I'm hurrying.
00:48:32
Shane
Hey, look at this. We can end before 50 minutes if you hurry on this last part.
00:48:35
Danny Price
and I'm hurrying. I'm trying to think if there's anything else that I needed to add.
00:48:36
Shane
thank
00:48:38
Danny Price
I felt like there was something in the back of my head that I wanted to make a note of from one of the last episodes I wanted to say, but. I'll it in the description if I forget or if I am forgetting. So um thanks for listening, guys. Pray that you would ah be encouraged by this. And this is a good podcast for you guys to listen to. Again, pass this on to your friends, all that stuff. We're trying to make it a little bit more public for the church. I know Tony mentioned on the podcast and the sermon and try to make it a little easier for you guys to be able to get a hold of this or even pass on to your friends.
00:49:06
Danny Price
If you search Table Talk Discussion, you're going to probably find it. But sometimes we're not a very huge podcast by any means. And so if you're searching it, you might not, or telling your friends to search for it, they might not see it.
00:49:17
Danny Price
I've never actually tried that. I own the podcast, so it's easy for me to find it on my phone.
00:49:20
Shane
Sure comes up.
00:49:21
Danny Price
So it comes right up. But if you're, ah and you know, whoever just searching for, I'm not sure if it's there or not. So anyways, we love you all. We hope you guys are having a great week. And then, yeah, Shane's preaching this Sunday.
00:49:32
Danny Price
picking back up with Colossians. So we'll see you guys again next week for kind of the sermon debrief discussion. So, all right.
00:49:38
Shane
See you next week.
00:49:39
Danny Price
See you guys next week. Bye-bye.