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Colossians | On Mission Episode 40
36 Plays12 days ago
Danny and Tony discuss the conclusion to the sermon series in Colossians. They talk about how to be on mission, talking to non-believers, wisdom, having gracious speech, and more!
Scripture References
Colossians 4
Micah 6:8
1 Peter 3:15 (Always be prepared to give an answer verse)
Book References
Tony's recommendation for a Christian perspective on psychology.
Psychobabble: The Failure of Modern Psychology and the Biblical Alternative - Richard Ganz
Articles for more on Onesimus
https://www.gotquestions.org/Onesimus-in-the-Bible.html
https://www.bibleodyssey.org/articles/onesimus/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction of Episode and Guest
00:00:31
Danny Price
everyone, welcome back to episode 40. This is our 40th episode of the Table Talk Discussions podcast. My name is Danny Price and I'm here with Tony Lemoria, who's our Mountain View Youth Pastor. Tony was able to give the message on Sunday. Shane is out of town. He's down in Honduras slash Guatemala. So he's out of town.
00:00:52
Danny Price
So Tony you got to teach. It was awesome. And we get to have him on the podcast just to interview him and just discuss the sermon.
Tony's Sermon Reflections
00:00:58
Danny Price
So Tony, how are you doing? How was it teaching? was I know it seems like you enjoyed teaching. Talk a bit about that, just how the sermon went, the prep, all that. Was there anything interesting or something that didn't make it into the sermon?
00:01:10
Danny Price
Yeah, just...
00:01:10
tony
yeah no i um i number one I do I love to teach um it's just one of the most exciting things to me and i always learn something Shane is a great teacher and he has a way of um keeping it fresh by like we could go through the same book, but he seems to be able to find nuances.
00:01:30
tony
Hey, we can teach this this time. And so it kind of keeps it fresh and really enjoyed that. I think um one of the things that was best for me about this specific sermon was wrapping up and looking at all the things that we have talked about and all the major themes that we pulled out this time going through the book.
00:01:46
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:01:49
tony
And really it's centering around being kingdom people. What does it mean to be a kingdom people who walk worthy? And um if he truly is our king and we truly confess that we're living for him and his kingdom, then how are we living as kingdom people? Very challenging throughout the whole series. And I really loved that. ah So i think my favorite week was week five, which was Jesus plus nothing equals everything. And just really hitting on that because no matter how how mature a Christian we are, i think um is if you believe that we can't attain perfection and in this life, which which I do believe that, I'm not a super devout Methodist, so that that's where I fall.
00:02:36
tony
And um it's always going to be a struggle to not get pulled into all the performance issues of life and That was just a very encouraging week. So if anybody else ever ever struggles with that, I encourage you to go listen to Shane's message in week five.
00:02:53
Danny Price
Yeah, that was really good. Yeah, i I appreciate that you did that. Actually, i heard from my dad too, because my dad listened. I think it was my dad. Or no, my dad was actually saying we should do this, and then you already did it. But just going through each sermon all the way through was super helpful. So if you're listening and you're wondering what we're talking about, at the beginning of the sermon, Tony walked through each week that we've gone to so far and did like a quick recap, which I thought was was helpful to tie everything in.
Relating Shackleton to Gospel Teachings
00:03:22
Danny Price
I know a lot of people that are coming to you know Sunday service, they'll miss a week or two because of vacation or sickness or whatever. And so sometimes it's not cohesive and it doesn't all blend together. And especially if you don't go back and re-listen to the sermon online on your own time, if you miss ah if you miss a week.
00:03:36
Danny Price
It can be confusing because you're like, where are we? Where where is where's the theme? Where's the thread? And you did a good job like pulling all that through to the end, which was which is super interesting. I loved your, and i by the way, I loved your Ernest Shackleton reference that was...
00:03:50
Danny Price
That was awesome. Are you a big fan of his?
00:03:51
tony
Yeah.
00:03:51
Danny Price
are you Have you done a lot of research on that?
00:03:53
tony
i'm I'm just a fan of history, right?
00:03:54
Danny Price
Or is that just something that...
00:03:56
tony
And I'm not that person that knows all these facts and dates all the time.
00:03:56
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:04:00
tony
Like they're all in my head and I can pull them out like Sherlock Holmes, right? Or something like that. But um I do know, I remember history, right? And so I'll remember, ooh, there was a story about Shackleton.
00:04:10
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:04:13
tony
What was it? And I'll go and I'll do the research again. And then it's there enough for me to to use as illustration.
00:04:15
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:04:18
tony
yeah I love history.
00:04:19
Danny Price
That was really good. I love that story. My boss, he mentions that story all the time.
00:04:22
tony
Amazing. Yeah.
00:04:24
Danny Price
not that Not necessarily just the the voyage, but the beginning.
00:04:25
tony
yeah
00:04:29
Danny Price
and i'm I'm sure you saw this, like looking this up, but I always think it's so fascinating. When he was about to set on this journey, he puts this job posting out in London. And he... writes down this description of the job. i actually Googled this because I wanted to read it. I thought it was cool. And my boss always mentions this because he said, you know, he loves how he didn't oversell what was happening. He literally just as meagerly possible points it out. Here's what it says. This job posting, they actually have a picture of it. It says men wanted for hazardous journeys, small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return, doubtful honor and recognition in case of success.
00:05:03
Danny Price
And then it says Ernest Shackleton for Burlington street. And they say that like 5,000 people applied. to to do this because it was that enticing as a man. And it's actually said a couple of women ah play applied to, but it was that enticing as a man to like, wow, that's, you know, he didn't, he didn't oversell it. He didn't say this is going to be a fun cruise voyage. He said, this is going to be so hard, but you know, honor in case of success.
00:05:26
Danny Price
Like that's always cool to me.
00:05:27
tony
Yeah, and there's such a strong there's such a strong um
00:05:33
tony
kind of gospel correlation tied into that as well, because you know Jesus didn't oversell what it was goingnna be what it was going to mean to be a Christian.
00:05:39
Danny Price
Mm-mm, yep.
00:05:41
tony
He said it would be difficult. There would be division. There would be like a sword experience in our life, even among families. And he said and when he did encourage, he didn't say, you will overcome.
00:05:53
tony
He said, fear not, I have overcome. I mean, even that encouragement would give cause for caution, like, wait, what? and
00:06:01
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:06:02
tony
And so, but yet it it just speaks to this deep desire in our hearts for significance to pursue something meaningful in this life.
00:06:02
Danny Price
Huh.
Listener Question: 'Seasoned with Salt'
00:06:11
tony
And yeah obviously the gospel life, this kingdom living is the most significant thing in this life.
00:06:12
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:06:19
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:06:19
tony
So that's awesome.
00:06:19
Danny Price
You have to wonder too, like with those sailors, like part of the reason they survived, like you've mentioned in the story, might have have something to do with the fact that they they had the right expectations going into it.
00:06:32
Danny Price
you know Which you can be said about Christianity
00:06:33
tony
Jeez, there's just so much there. You're right.
00:06:35
Danny Price
Yeah, they didn't they didn't think like, oh, it's going to be so easy. And then, wait a second, we're going to mutiny because this is not what we signed up for. like They knew it was going to be hard, which is, i mean, there's all that.
00:06:44
tony
Right?
00:06:44
Danny Price
you know We could talk about that for a while.
00:06:46
tony
Yeah.
00:06:46
Danny Price
So anyways, sorry, that was sidetracked. That was fun. um We have a good question from a listener.
00:06:50
tony
That's good.
00:06:52
Danny Price
So Zach can't send in a question. He actually sent in a bunch of questions. Zach, I'm sorry, I can't get to all of them. um And I'm actually going to paraphrase his question, which he said, by the way, he said it was OK just to massage the question a little bit.
00:07:05
Danny Price
but it's a really great question. So here's a question. It says, um is there any connection between, you know, in Colossians when it says seasoned with salt and the old Testament Jewish practices that had a focus on salt and covenant? um And he said, for example, you know, Passover and Shabbat meals, you salt and salt is this is this huge theme through sacrifices in the old Testament. So is there any correlation? Do you think there, Tony, with, with when he says seasoned with salt and with, with all that I just read? but What do you think?
00:07:35
tony
Yeah, I think so. But I think we need to be careful here because sometimes what we know can go a little too far and we try to we try to force things sometimes. But absolutely, Numbers chapter 18 um this this idea of the salting of the sacrifices to preserve the sacrifices um and anti-corruption of you know of of decay, anti-corruption, anti-decay, right? And there is this kind of covenant of salt.
00:08:04
tony
When they were to make their their unleavened bread, there would be you know absence of the leaven and some other ingredients, but there would always be the salt and the salt was a holy component.
00:08:14
tony
So absolutely, but um Matthew, chapter five, Jesus talks about us being the salt of the earth. And I think in that, yes, absolutely. And to an extent here in Colossians, he's talking to um he's talking to some Jews who would know about that covenantal language and the idea of us being salt in the earth, that we are this visible representation of this living covenant with God. We are to be anti-corruption. We're to be anti-decay in that sense. We are to preserve and to be the purity of
00:08:48
tony
his intention, right, as image bearers. um So I think that's that's absolutely in there. But in the context of this letter, he's not necessarily writing to only Jews.
00:09:00
tony
He's writing to primarily, actually, what we'd assume, primarily um Gentiles who have been converted to Christianity. And there are some Jews there.
00:09:11
tony
um But there's a lot of Greek names in there as well as when he's writing at the end, Gentile names and And salt did not only mean that. It meant that to the Jews, but it didn't only mean that. I mean, so obviously as an illustration to the rest of the world, salt was also a preservative and a and a taste agent.
00:09:33
tony
And so as he's speaking to these disciples, some of who are Jews, i don't think Jesus would be trying to say, hey I want you to be thinking ah necessarily of this covenant i because he's speaking about how they're engaging with outsiders.
00:09:48
Danny Price
Right.
00:09:49
tony
And so it it would seem to me in this context of this statement, he's being seasoned with salt, that it is probably a little bit more of um their context.
00:09:59
tony
So I want you to be speaking in such a way that they want to listen. They want more. um just so it But it could be both, right? Obviously, Jews probably would have gotten heard the salt thing, but that's not the only you know it's not like the only way they ever experience or know about salt either. So Yeah, great teaching point to those who would be able to receive it.
Spiritual Awareness and Humility
00:10:22
tony
But just wanna be careful that we don't push it too far.
00:10:24
Danny Price
No, that makes sense. Yeah, no, he had ah a lot longer. It was not just a question. It was like a whole thought. And he was just, you know again, just what you were just saying about the sacrifices with salt and positionally, like in certain meals for Jewish tradition, salt positionally was higher and elevated in certain positions compared to like bread, for example.
00:10:32
tony
Yeah.
00:10:43
tony
Yeah.
00:10:44
Danny Price
or actually, bread was actually higher than salt, but salt is still like this purifying element. So that was interesting.
00:10:50
tony
Yeah.
00:10:50
Danny Price
That was that was helpful. all that is All that's new to me, like i you know you see salt you know reference, you know youre you were the salt of the earth, for example, and I think we read over that stuff.
00:10:57
tony
Yeah. And he's absolutely right. All this stuff is there. Yeah.
00:11:00
Danny Price
Right, right.
00:11:00
tony
I just don't think that would have been the first thought of the hearers of that letter.
00:11:05
Danny Price
Yeah, no that that makes sense. Awesome. um The next question and that that we have is, Chris You know, and this this goes more to what you were talking about with as we're out in Hebrew Valley and out with people having the eyes to see. Chris This is my question, how do we open our eyes to the spiritual things around us to know what to pray for. Chris How do we get our eyes off of ourself and off of our specific needs and on to others.
00:11:34
tony
Yeah, that's always going to be a difficult run, right? But um obviously what comes to mind, maybe not obviously, what comes to my mind first is Malachi 6.8, right? And that we are to love mercy, do justly, and walk humbly with our God. And I think a struggle for a lot of us Christians today, especially a lot of us Christians who you know, we may have the perception that we know more about God's Word and the Old Testament and New Testament. We we have this very...
00:12:03
tony
ah appropriate high view of scripture and um you know in our education and again i think it's an appropriate high view but i think sometimes i think i especially in my life just speaking to me there have been times especially when i was in seminary i went to a couple seminaries um You know, i I feel like I have a lot of education, but I've really had to be humbled in a lot of contexts.
00:12:30
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:12:32
tony
And God has humbled me and other people have humbled me. But it's easy to get caught up. And I would be challenged to say that some of those times in my life, was I walking humbly with God?
00:12:45
tony
That's the big one. I can say, yeah, I love mercy. And I do justly. I fight for those things. And I would say I'm walking with God, but i Honestly, were probably a lot of times where I was maybe acting like I was a step ahead of God in the walk. And I'm like, I know where you want me to go, so I'm going to go on ahead, God. and And I'm not necessarily walking humbly with God. So I think one of the the things is we need to pray for humility all the time without humiliation. I'm tired of being humiliated in my life, but i would I'm constantly asking for humility. And one of the things I think really is in our prayer life
00:13:24
tony
If we pay attention to our prayer life, that we are talking to the God of the universe, not like we've achieved something because we've gone to school for him or we've studied and we understand things. But if we still approach our prayer life with God, with humility, that we are really nothing, you know, we're specks of dust.
00:13:40
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:13:41
tony
a Psalm 103 says he remembers that we are still just of dust. And we're there's this idea of always being grateful, always starting with an attitude of gratitude.
00:13:53
tony
before our Lord and Savior and our Creator and Sustainer. So if we can remember that our language in that needs to be like that, I think the way that we speak to God in prayer will really help to shape our attitude the rest of the time and how we live.
00:14:12
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:14:14
tony
Because if we're kind of full of arrogance when we pray and, and you know, are high and mighty when we pray or, you know, I've done these things for you and if if it changes our attitude in prayer, That's really going to reflect in how I get up off my knees immediately after prayer. It's going to be reflected in that and how I go about living.
00:14:32
tony
um So I think the number one way of keeping our eyes open is that attitude of gratitude, which is always, Paul is always, you know, everybody in the New Testament is always pairing that with prayer.
00:14:43
tony
And then number two, um the gratitude, but then also just the making sure that my language in relationship with my Heavenly Fathers, is humble. And I think that will keep our eyes open.
Living Distinctively as Christians
00:14:57
tony
That's, I think, the number one place I would start. There's probably a lot more answers to that.
00:15:02
Danny Price
No, that was really good. Yeah, I love that verse in Micah. It was Micah 6.8, is that right?
00:15:08
tony
I think so, yeah.
00:15:09
Danny Price
I'll write that down. I try to write down all the scriptures in the in the description so people can go back and look. That verse is near and dear to me. It's like a family verse that we said a lot when I was growing up. So I love that. That's really good. um Kind of in the same in this same thread, the next question, just kind of reviewing verses four and five of chapter four, I'll read them.
00:15:33
Danny Price
And I just wanted to hear your thoughts and how we do this, you know how do how we walk in wisdom to outsiders. So this is this is Colossians 4, chapter 4, verses 4 and 5.
00:15:38
tony
Mm-hmm.
00:15:43
Danny Price
that i meant That I might make it clear, which is how I ought to speak. Walk in wisdom towards outsiders, making the best use of the time. and then I guess I'll read 6 to you. Let your speech always be gracious, easing with salt, so that you may know how to answer each person.
00:15:57
Danny Price
So the question is, you know how do we walk in wisdom to outsiders? but does what does that What does that look like? ah A little clarification. i mean,
00:16:09
Danny Price
if they aren't saved, you know they're not believers, what are exactly about us and how we do things is going to be perceived as wisdom to them? Or is it just we're wise with how we, is that is that the wrong interpretation? Or is it we are wise with how we walk with them? Does that make sense? Like, I'm just i'm just juggling this around. i'm not sure how to interpret this.
00:16:28
tony
I think the language in there points to the fact that it's talking about our wisdom, us walking with wisdom, us walking wisely, like Proverbs talks about.
00:16:34
Danny Price
Okay.
00:16:37
tony
i don't think it's talking about ah so that it appears as wisdom to them, because that would contradict what Jesus, you know, so
00:16:43
Danny Price
Right, exactly.
00:16:45
tony
Yeah, so, um and Paul. It's going to be a stumbling block to the outside world at times. However, i think really part of my answer would be the same as what we just talked about.
00:16:59
tony
Like how we do is we have to we have to have to recognize how we are before God first. And I think that will flavor everything else how we are in the rest of the world. But the biggest piece there, and i tried to point this out in the in the sermon, is that it doesn't say,
00:17:14
tony
um in what you in what you say in response. It says in how you respond. And I think that goes along with almost the entirety of Proverbs too, is if we're living wisely, we're more concerned with um the behavior and the posture of grace, right? And in humility.
00:17:36
tony
um There are plenty of times in Proverbs where it'll say something to the effect of, it's better for you to be seen as
00:17:47
tony
to be seen as as a as a fool. i don't think it says it that harshly in that spot, but keep your mouth shut so that others don't know then to open it and erase all doubt, right?
00:17:54
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:17:59
tony
So it's the presentation, I think is what's the big concern there is is how we live graciously.
00:17:59
Danny Price
Yep, yep. Mm-hmm.
00:18:09
tony
And if we're in the practice of For in the practice of being gracious with our speech, being humble in our speech, um and then again, flavoring it with salt without watering down or compromising the message, then the idea is that when we are given the opportunity, because we've been practicing wisely, we will act wisely in those moments.
00:18:33
tony
And so we will, by by habit, by discipline, we will know how to, what the right way is to respond. even if it might be something that could be offensive to to others, it'll still be filled with grace.
00:18:49
Danny Price
Yeah, well, that's good. I think you even mentioned it. But I think it's the verse in Timothy just being prepared to, or it's maybe 2 Timothy. i'm I'm blanking right now. But just being prepared to give an answer for the hope that is within you.
00:19:03
Danny Price
Not necessarily that you have to give an answer all the time for everything, but that being but being able to be prepared. I think that verse marries well with this of that you may know how to answer each person, but not necessarily saying that we need to be quick to speak every time that you get into a conversation with someone you have to, especially if they're attacking you for some reason, you don't, it's not like a personal defense type thing. It's something that's, that's thought up, thought out well and wise in the way that you respond and you being able to, and being prepared to. Yeah.
00:19:35
tony
Mm-hmm.
00:19:35
Danny Price
Which does go into that, then actually, the next question. All these kind of three like kind of flow together. um So how how should we live? Because you did mention this in the sermon about the way that we live in contrast to the world.
00:19:51
Danny Price
how should we How should we live and the and stand out in our in our context? Because I think it's easy to talk about the world, but I just wanted to bring it more home to Heber Valley. What are the things that you would see or hope for Mountain View Fellowship, the way that we live should stand out in Heber Valley? What are the things and the ways that we...
00:20:09
Danny Price
um conduct ourselves? What should stand out or be different compared to the rest of our culture just around us? And within that should be, is is this becoming better at apologetics? Is this being better at being able to give a defense for our faith and debating? Is there an element to that? Is there not an element to that?
00:20:26
Danny Price
That's a lot of thoughts, but i just wanted to see what you what you had to say on that.
00:20:31
tony
Yeah, I think we have to be careful here too because you know depending on who we are, there's some people listening to this who are probably really strong in apologetics. So the the way that God has made them would be to invest in in healthy becoming a healthy apologetician.
00:20:49
Danny Price
Apologetic. Apologetic.
00:20:51
tony
Apologetician?
00:20:51
Danny Price
Apologetic.
00:20:53
tony
Apologeticist? Okay.
00:20:55
Danny Price
i don't know apologist apologist that be right
00:20:55
tony
um Like that would... yeah Apologies to...
00:20:59
Danny Price
upp
00:21:01
tony
too slaying that one. um Okay. But so that would be, you know, that that's a call on them and for them. But I think generally speaking, I'm just going to instead of speaking to the specifics generally, it's like preparing for any kind of encounter. Sometimes I think we get too caught up on What are the what are the negative things that we need to counter? And sometimes we do need to bring direct truth to lies.
00:21:25
tony
Like that is one of the ways we and engage the darkness. and We're going to actually be speaking about that at summer camp this summer. But it's like so there's times we have to do that. However, i think sometimes we need to slow down. We just need to go back to creation.
00:21:40
tony
And we need to remember what our what are general purpose is. And here at Mountain View Fellowship, the way we articulate that is to meet Jesus and live free.
00:21:51
tony
And that really does reflect the the garden state, right? we ah state of existence, I mean, the not New Jersey.
00:21:59
Danny Price
Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, no. The Garden State.
00:22:01
tony
The garden state of existence where we we had a relationship with Jesus and
00:22:03
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:22:08
tony
we We lived in freedom. And so if that is our, if that's our main thing, right, then how the question becomes, how do we do that to today?
00:22:25
tony
It's not necessarily how do we do we get, how do we go out and engage a false belief or how do we go out and engage this just counterfeit Jesus in this one particular area or in that one particular area, right?
00:22:42
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:22:43
tony
This one over here, that one over there. But more about, we were created for this, so why don't we just go out and engage where we're living like this?
00:22:54
tony
And so how do I make just the opportunity to meet and experience Jesus? I think that goes to Zach's question earlier, right? Like this is where we would say we're supposed to be a an example of what this living and this living covenant with him looks like, what he's done for us, how he's preserved us, what purity looks like under the authority of his grace, because we're still screw-ups, right?
00:23:13
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:23:23
tony
But we can still, his righteousness is my defense, right? And so how do I go out and I live that? So instead of engaging anything specific in our area, maybe we need to start and be a little bit more intentional about um what it looks like to to know Jesus, to meet Jesus, and then what it means to live free.
00:23:46
tony
And if we start there, then I think each one of us will fall into our specifics, will feel the calling into our specifics.
00:23:46
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:23:54
tony
And the nuances. And then if we don't exactly know, then that's when we go to somebody that we deem to be a little bit more knowledgeable and mature and say, I really feel like blah, blah, blah how do How do I do that? And then we can figure that out.
00:24:07
Danny Price
Okay. So you're saying instead of thinking this is exactly how my life should stand out or or be set apart from Hebrew Valley, it different aspects are going to shine brighter for different people, um specifically in your giftings. Is that kind of where your're what you're, I'm just trying to reiterate.
00:24:25
tony
I think that's where we end up. But I think your first question was, you know, what is what should life look like? Or what could life look like if we're trying?
00:24:33
Danny Price
Yeah. Like,
00:24:34
tony
And so instead of thinking, I'm going to live a life that is that shows that this philosophy isn't true, doesn't work.
00:24:44
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:24:44
tony
No. Let's start with what is what is the philosophy we're supposed to approach everything with in the first place? And so let's let's start with that and start living like what does that look like.
00:24:53
Danny Price
and
00:24:55
tony
So focus on the positive, the celebration, the the thing. And then as we're doing that, I think each one of us will feel the nudge of our gift, you know, being pulled up in us or being pulled out of us.
00:25:08
tony
And and God will be directing us to those things.
00:25:08
Danny Price
yeah
00:25:10
tony
But it starts with that that general way of approaching life. Because if we're honest, that's that's the big thing. That's what others aren't doing.
00:25:20
Danny Price
That makes sense.
00:25:20
tony
They're not living free. um where they're they're not maybe knowing the Jesus that we that we know. And so let's live for that first.
00:25:31
tony
And then as that comes up, we'll be pulled into our specific callings.
00:25:34
Danny Price
Yeah. Since you're bringing that up about the whole, like, live free, um
00:25:41
Danny Price
trying to figure out this is a totally, this is totally not, I didn't write this question down. This is just kind of coming to me. and I'm just curious what your thoughts are.
00:25:48
tony
Cool.
00:25:48
Danny Price
If I'm a secular person, who's not a believer, I might look at my life and think to myself, well, I'm pretty dan dang free. Cause I don't have to listen to these rules. I don't have this.
00:25:59
Danny Price
I don't have to have, I have no authority, you know, besides the government, maybe you're my boss. I have no really authority over me. I can kind of do what I want. I feel pretty free. Um, What would you say to someone thats that says that when you're trying to talk about the freedom of Jesus and what that means? Because it's it's different, but I could see that being a a stumbling block or a confusion for people because they feel like, well, wait, you're saying I have to join ah join a religion. And i know I don't agree with that you know framing, but I think that's what some people would say. is So you're saying I have to join a religion and say yes to all these rules and then I'm somehow freer. like How does that make sense?
Paul's Chains and Christian Witness
00:26:32
Danny Price
what would you say that What would you say to someone who's kind of bringing those arguments to you?
00:26:37
tony
Yeah, well, I think Paul dealt with that argument in a couple places, most profoundly in the book of Romans, right? He really fleshed that out, and he he helped us to see that all throughout Scripture, freedom was prime excuse me freedom was primarily ah coming from from God's perspective, this articulation of freedom, was primarily always about being free from slavery to sin.
00:27:02
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:27:03
tony
Right? So it's not freedom from to do what I want. that's That's never what God intended. It was freedom from being a slave to sin, which we're completely incapable of getting that kind of emancipation for ourselves that had to come only in one way from God.
00:27:16
Danny Price
yeah
00:27:19
tony
Well, it had to come from God. Jesus revealed there was only one way for that emancipation from being a slave to sin.
00:27:24
Danny Price
m
00:27:26
tony
And that happened to be in him and in relationship to him. So, um Our freedom isn't about doing what we want, never has been. In fact, that's what the that's what the lost world believes, is they believe they have freedom from rules, but they're slaves to sin. And that's what God cares about. So he freed us from that.
00:27:44
tony
So if we can start with that freedom, then once we have that freedom, then Paul comes along and talks to those who are freed already in that sense and says, you're also now free from all these other rules and regulations and traditions and things like that.
00:28:00
tony
So... translate right from this old way of living being constrained by these rules recognize your your freedom in christ and because the slavery the sin no longer has a hold of you you don't need all these things that were created to protect you from that slavery to sin while you were entrapped in it now you can leave free from those things so it's this added way of of being free from the need of those constraints
00:28:25
Danny Price
Interesting.
00:28:28
Danny Price
that's That's good. That's an interesting framing of it because I totally agree with what you're saying. i don't know if I could have described it. like and You have a very unique way of bringing things up. I love that. That's that's super helpful. Because I think that is like that's a question that I've talked to people about.
00:28:39
tony
Cool.
00:28:41
Danny Price
I had a friend at work forever ago when I had a separate job. And he would always just make fun of me. if he's like you talk about like He's like, you always talk about how like nice it is to be a follower of Jesus.
00:28:52
Danny Price
is like But you have to do all these rules. I don't see how that could be he never He didn't use the word freeing, but he just was like, I can't see why you would ever want or choose to do that. And it was hard to it was hard to verbalize like the freedom or the the rest that there is. of Like you know when Jesus talks about my yoke is easy, my burden is light. like There's a rest that it's it's hard to explain, but having an authority in your life and having that place to rest, it's more freeing than you can imagine. And it's not...
00:29:19
Danny Price
it's not like this weird Stockholm syndrome, like you're abused and yet you somehow enjoy it. It's not like that. It's like a, it's like this true piece.
00:29:24
tony
Yeah.
00:29:25
Danny Price
and And, and like you have a shepherd and you're a sheep and you can just rest in your shepherd. It's kind of crazy. So um like I like how you,
00:29:31
tony
I think that was an excellent way to say it. Yeah.
00:29:34
Danny Price
That was a different, that was a different way. um Cool. um Let's see here. So at the end of the book or the end of the chapter, but also the end of the book, verse 18, Paul says, I, Paul, write this greeting with my own hand. Remember my chains. Grace be with you.
00:29:51
Danny Price
Why does Paul say to remember my chains? What is he, what is he communicating there?
00:29:57
tony
Super, super powerful, right? um I think there's a couple things that we could talk about here. ah so I'm trying to quickly articulate some might be the best, most important thing to say in this context.
00:30:16
tony
um
00:30:22
tony
Remember, there's this, Paul talks about this um
00:30:32
tony
filling up what is lacking in Christ's sufferings. And we addressed that before. I think it was actually my sermon that ah that I addressed that. And i' I'm sure Shane has addressed it elsewhere before, but I remember just recently.
00:30:45
tony
And so the idea here in Colossians, when he he says that, is that is not that Christ's sufferings weren't adequate. Christ's suffering was adequate for dealing with sin, for empowering us, and for for okay for dealing with sin so that we're no longer condemned, then raising us also to life, and then also equipping us with power to live this life.
00:30:59
Danny Price
yeah.
00:31:12
tony
That's all accomplished in Christ's work. However, the reality is is that the moment he died on the cross and the curtain was torn and there's this earthquake and these you know people coming out of the graves and proclaiming the gospel, which is, that should be full of some questions for other people too.
00:31:28
tony
Dead people proclaiming the gospel.
00:31:28
Danny Price
yeah Yeah. Hmm. Huh.
00:31:33
tony
But the the idea is that the church didn't explode into existence right then. The church was going to take time and it was going to happen in a very painful and long suffering kind of way for the church to grow and for the witness of Christ to to persevere against the enemy.
00:31:53
tony
So the sufferings are this continued work to realize the the Great Commission, to realize the, the dream, if you will, even though it wasn't a dream, because it's not like Jesus had a dream and he hoped it came true.
00:32:10
tony
He knew it would come true, but this vision.
00:32:12
Danny Price
Right, right.
00:32:13
tony
And so that's the way that, that Paul is, is suffering. and so it's almost, I think Paul is saying, remember what all this is for. Remember what all this is about.
00:32:23
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:32:25
tony
Remember that it's okay. Remember that it's expected. Remember that I'm okay with it. Um, But remember the the heart of Christ at the center of all of this, at the center of my change, his love for me, which enables me to love him. And therefore, this is all worth it.
00:32:46
tony
Please remember that is as I exhort you at the very end of this letter, which is talked about a kingdom living.
00:32:46
Danny Price
yeah
00:32:53
tony
Remember all that and let that be an encouragement to you as you go.
00:32:58
Danny Price
Dang, that was really good. I really liked how you brought that back to Christ's sufferings were enough, and this suffering is not suffering is not some kind of thing that's going to produce justification for you, but it's somehow necessary.
00:33:16
Danny Price
and And I totally agree. You can see that all throughout the New Testament. Just all these sufferings and the way that the Christian suffer is such a testament and um it's like it's like it's in ah its own evangelism in its own way.
00:33:31
Danny Price
And I know i can't I don't have it in front of me at all, but I know like Romans, for example, not Romans like the book, but like Roman officials.
00:33:33
tony
Mm-hmm.
00:33:39
Danny Price
There was one Roman historian that was writing down and he was writing about this in contempt. of Christians, but pretty much talking about how they had been suffered. they had They had suffered and been slaughtered and all this stuff.
00:33:50
Danny Price
And he was saying like, as it should be like, yeah, thats that's a good thing. But then he even made a remark of how well they suffered and how they didn't fight back. And they, they completely just, they took it and they suffered well and they always praise God and they, it didn't break their spirit at all.
00:34:06
Danny Price
And he couldn't wrap his head around that. I wish I'll go find this and put it in the description for
Being Part of the Church Team
00:34:10
Danny Price
later, but it's so amazing.
00:34:10
tony
Yeah, actually, and i don't know if this is the same quote you're thinking of, because there's probably several, but Josephus wrote a quote about the suffering of of the Christians and the martyrs and everything, and he called them, and this is where why so many Christians use the word tribe today, because he referred to them as this great tribe of people who endured like like nobody else, all those things. It's a really powerful quote. um Maybe look up Josephus.
00:34:40
tony
tribe of Christians quote.
00:34:41
Danny Price
it wasn't Josephus that I was talking about. It was Tacitus.
00:34:44
tony
and Okay.
00:34:44
Danny Price
Okay. Here it is.
00:34:45
tony
Okay.
00:34:46
Danny Price
um And I'll, so I'll put it in the description. i I don't want to dig through this on Google right now in front of you guys, but Tacitus, but then Josephus talks about it too.
00:34:50
tony
Cool.
00:34:52
tony
That's all right. Tacitus is cool.
00:34:54
Danny Price
It's in Josephus was, was a Jewish historian. It's like, they can't comprehend and they don't get it.
00:34:57
tony
Yeah.
00:34:59
Danny Price
It's like, they see it and they're like, it doesn't make any sense. Why, how are you, why are you suffering for this, this guy that died ahead of you?
00:35:06
tony
Yeah. Maybe it is a tacitist quote that I'm thinking of.
00:35:07
Danny Price
And, It might be.
00:35:09
tony
Yeah.
00:35:11
Danny Price
Anyways, so that's just that's that's really cool.
00:35:12
tony
Anyway, that's cool.
00:35:13
Danny Price
I love how you answered that. That was that was fantastic. um Let's see here. um So towards the end of the sermon, I really like how you kind of brought that home about talking about being on the team.
00:35:25
tony
Yeah.
00:35:26
Danny Price
And not just seeing, and I did like how you even mentioned like the different people at the end of the, um, of the, of this letter that Paul's writing. And he's mentioning all these people and you're like, imagine, you know, not like in some heretical way, but like, imagine yourselves like, like in this, like, are you part of this team?
00:35:42
Danny Price
Are you, would you be one of the names listed, um, type of thing?
00:35:43
tony
Mm-hmm.
00:35:46
Danny Price
Um, if someone's new coming to Mountain View Fellowship, maybe they're brand new, maybe this is, you know, they're, they're checking this out. They're not sure. Maybe they are a believer. Maybe they're not.
00:35:57
Danny Price
Um, what would it look like to join the team? what what would What would be the step that they would take or steps that they that they could take? i' I'm not trying to over-practicalize this, but I'm just wondering from a perspective of a new person, they hear that, like, okay, join the team, and they might think, okay, I just need to start serving, or I just need to start tithing, or whatever it is. What what do you think is the right heart response to that, to join the team?
00:36:23
tony
I don't want to make this too simple of an illustration, but the first thing that comes to my mind is, you know every football game or pro game that we ever watch of any kind of sport on TV, there's the key players that we all know, and there's a few that, you know, um rotate in and out through the game, but there's like 90 other players on the side of the field.
00:36:42
tony
For every, you know, like I don't know who all the basketball players are on the Utah Jazz that are sitting on the side there that and that I never see come in right or or whatever sport, but but they show up every single day.
00:36:44
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:36:50
Danny Price
Yep.
00:36:56
tony
They go through the same practice. they and they're they're always They're more than just present. They're available.
00:37:05
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:37:05
tony
Even if they're not getting any playtime, they're available. and so i think
00:37:11
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:37:12
tony
um I just did a ah study recently for some of my own research that was on um fathers in in the midst of crisis in their families. And one of the fathers said what I learned most of this family crisis that I went through was that there's a big difference between being present and being available.
00:37:31
tony
There's a lot of talk about being present nowadays in society, but we need to be more and that.
00:37:32
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:37:37
tony
We need to be available. And so I think that the biggest thing that we can say that's actually encouraging to people, that's not just a platitude, is that, hey, could you be present and be available?
00:37:48
tony
You know, I don't know when we may call on on you, but if you could be present and be doing this with us consistently so that you're available, I promise there's going to come a time because I'm not the one in charge of this, God is.
00:38:04
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:38:04
tony
And if you're if you're being present and consistent, then I know at some point, um you know, it if you're available, then there's going to be a call for you. So, yeah, I think that's i think that's maybe a way we can encourage it.
00:38:16
Danny Price
That's good.
00:38:20
tony
I wish Shane was here right now because he would probably have some some better insight into that, but that's where my mind goes right away.
00:38:28
Danny Price
No, that, that, that, that really helps. And I wasn't trying to say like, we need all this, like, all right, now you need to go to this class and go to this class. Cause I think some of that stuff is pretty clearly laid out, um, for a newcomer, but you, I, I, I fully believe you could be, gotta be careful how I say this.
00:38:36
tony
Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:44
Danny Price
I, I think I believe that you could be tithing and maybe serving and even have taken a couple of classes and not really be on the team. And like, in terms of your buy-in like your heart, like the ownership that you have, um,
00:38:56
tony
Mm-hmm.
00:38:57
Danny Price
And this is something that my boss always talks about, like for work, you know, cause I work at a Christian camp and we're similar, you know, we're a ministry, a little parachurch, similar, you know, not, not quite the same as a church, but we both notice, and he talks about this all the time, but what makes a great employee for us, what's when, and there's like the shift and I don't know and exactly how it happens or when it happens, but when they stop referring to it as your camp or the camp and as our camp,
00:39:24
Danny Price
And there's like this there's this there's this huge like like transition where it's like, like you said, being present, working, whatever, but versus being available and like bought in and like like kind of like the whole light like the put me in coach kind of like that kind of feeling.
00:39:25
tony
Oh, that's cool. That's very cool.
00:39:37
tony
Mm-hmm.
00:39:38
Danny Price
But it totally changes the buy-in in terms of the way that you interact with people because you're not you're no longer representing people.
00:39:38
tony
Mm-hmm.
00:39:45
Danny Price
you know, the place that you work for, like you, if you worked for KFC or something, but you're replaced, you're, you're, it's like, this is, it reflects on me. Like this is our camp. And I want to reflect that well, because it also reflects on me. Um, we haven't really figured out if there's any secrets, there's no formula or secret sauce that, that brings that about. Like, you know, if you do this step, this step, this step, this step, then they'll start referring to it as our camp. We haven't figured that out. It, a lot of it takes catching the vision and time spent, you know, doing the work.
00:40:14
Danny Price
Um, But he always talks about that as like, there's such a difference and he can tell it when people are coming to him instead of saying, hey, you should do this. Or, hey, you what if you guys did this here at the camp? He said, what if you what if we did this at the camp?
00:40:25
Danny Price
It's such a different framing of the mind. And I think there is a lot of crossover with the churches. You know, someone's saying, hey, we should we should we should do this at the church as opposed to, hey, you guys should do this. You can just totally tell where their heart their heart placement is at and where they're bought in.
00:40:39
Danny Price
So I was just rambling there for a second.
00:40:40
tony
yeah that's good.
00:40:42
Danny Price
So that's fun. I'll catch an idea. And then I'm like, i don't know where this is taking me. We're going to go somewhere with it though. um
00:40:49
tony
That's great.
00:40:51
Danny Price
Last question that I had, actually there was two, there was one bonus question at the end. I just was going to ask about, but this last is the last official question.
00:40:58
tony
Okay.
00:40:58
Danny Price
So as someone who also struggles with speaking graciously, because you mentioned that, that that's something that you've struggled with in the past. How do you work on that? How do you work with working on your gracious speech and being seasoned with salt?
00:41:12
tony
um So there's a lot of practical wisdom in the world, meaning, and it's funny, I hope nobody thinks I'm heretical by leading with that statement and in this answer, but i read I've read a lot of books on leadership and on psychology, right?
00:41:33
tony
And a lot of people know that I'm also a mental health therapist. So I've done a lot of learning and teaching others practical skills on how to do positive, active listening, right? And and responding to things and how to how to speak, setting your boundaries without compromising on other things.
00:41:53
tony
and there There is, there's a lot of good wisdom um that comes from the world. It's it's in the Bible. but the world studying for its own things discovers the same truth that's out there and they present it in a way.
00:42:07
tony
And so I've learned a lot of those things and I've worked on a lot of those things in my life, but I just can't overstate how my language and my relationship with my father flavors everything else.
00:42:23
Danny Price
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:42:24
tony
um And that's where I struggle the most because that's where I feel the most convicted. I will i will have a great, prayer time with my family, you know, and we usually pray for about 10 to 20 minutes, depending on what's going on our lives before bedtime, all together as a family, everybody comes together at the end of the day.
00:42:42
tony
And we express gratitude and praise. And and then we ask for intercession on things. And I'm really trying to set a good example in my language and how I pray, just being authentic, transparent and me before God.
00:43:00
tony
But then we can be heading downstairs after that, after saying amen to prayer. And immediately, because my kids aren't behaving at bedtime or doing what they're supposed to be, i can get, i can turn into Tony that doesn't necessarily have Jesus.
00:43:15
tony
And my speech isn't gracious to my kids, right? And I can become threatening because that's what that's the go-to.
00:43:23
Danny Price
Yeah. Interesting.
00:43:25
tony
But I have found the single greatest thing conditioner for me in my life for my speech is the consistency with how I'm speaking with my heavenly father. The more I do it, the more I'm aware of it, the less I do it, the less I practice it in my other relationships, my horizontal relationships.
00:43:47
Danny Price
interesting
00:43:47
tony
And that's, that's what I have found for me. Right. And there may be other, again, I wish Shane was here cause he'd probably have in his years of experience some, some, some other practical wisdom of other ways to encourage people to to practice that. But that's my response.
00:44:06
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah. That was really helpful. Yeah, I was curious because, like you said, that that was a perfect example. Like you'll go from one moment where things are harmonious and it's seemingly great, and then all of a sudden you... And the the problem with me, and and maybe people can relate to this,
00:44:23
Danny Price
is that it's not necessarily like a formula. Like a lot of people are like, well, are you so like, is it always when you're stressed or it's always when you're just off of work or is it always when you're hungry? It's like, for me, it's not. There's times where I'm super hungry. And for some reason, like I think God's spirit is moving in me and I'm super gracious.
00:44:40
Danny Price
And I don't, but then there's other times where I am and it's not.
00:44:40
tony
Mm-hmm.
00:44:42
Danny Price
And it's it's hard for me to point to like an exact moment in time where it's always, it's like this this situation is the formula where I always stop speaking graciously and I lash out at my family.
00:44:53
tony
Mm-hmm.
00:44:53
Danny Price
which is really difficult because then it's it's harder to find the the antidote. And that's why I loved your answer because being in constant prayer is something that is, it's a good it's a good antidote. And it's something that I honestly, I know I can practice more of. And so that's a very, very helpful thing.
Redemptive Journeys of Onesimus and Mark
00:45:10
Danny Price
i don't know if anyone, i don't know if you relate to that or if anyone relates to that, but it's like, I don't always have like this perfect time where it happens. It just kind of comes out of me at different times when I'm shaken and which is frustrating.
00:45:19
tony
Yeah.
00:45:20
Danny Price
It's frustrating.
00:45:21
tony
I think it's worthy of noting too that, you know, what, what it says in Proverbs and what Job says is that the things I set before my eyes, right, whatever we're taking in. And sometimes this, now this is counter to some of the wisdom of the world, but there are a lot of Christians who are filling themselves with some psychobabble nonsense out there. And this is, you know, the best way to speak and the best way to protect yourself and the best way, you know,
00:45:48
tony
there's There's all kinds of stuff out there. um And some of it sounds really wise and really good, but it does not posture our our heart and humility.
00:45:51
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:45:56
tony
It actually elevates us to a position of rights and status in our world, in our little microcosm, and we need to protect that.
00:45:58
Danny Price
h
00:46:04
tony
And I think that goes counter to the gospel and considering others as more important than yourself and picking up your cross daily and and sacrificing yourself and submitting one to another, right?
00:46:15
tony
All those all those ideas. So, so There are so many things that we're taking in all the time. And I love action films. I always will. And I love military films and that kind of action kind of stuff and fighting.
00:46:29
tony
um And there can just be this thing where we've taken so much in that, like I said, the go-to for so many of us is authority and threat.
00:46:35
Danny Price
and
00:46:40
tony
right? I'm going to threaten you because you're you're not doing what I say, or I'm going to posture myself with, I'm going to bring my chest out and my I'm going to drop my shoulders so I look more, whatever, right?
00:46:50
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:46:50
tony
And um I'm going to posture in in a way of threatening or whatever. So the things that we've taken in, even if it seems to be positive psycho
00:46:56
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:47:01
tony
kind of stuff, psychoeducation kind of tools, I think we have to be really careful and we really have to explore the spirit that's behind that because if it's elevating me and my rights in my microcosm, we're probably on the wrong track and that's probably taking us, even though it may feel good, it's probably taking us away from the the kingdom living that we're called to.
00:47:24
Danny Price
Yeah. That's interesting. That's, that's helpful. I don't have, I'm not in that world at all. I don't know a lot. And so it's cool hearing from someone who's a Christian, a christian I would say a Christian first before you're a counselor or psychologist, or are you technically a psychologist?
00:47:39
Danny Price
Is that the right term for you or
00:47:41
tony
ah No, i'm I'm just a therapist. Yeah, that's all I am.
00:47:45
Danny Price
Okay, but still, but you're still in that world and you've read the books and you've done the research and it's cool to hear that perspective because I have heard the opposing perspectives of someone who's maybe that first and then a Christian second and that that those things influence their Christianity.
00:47:47
tony
Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:59
tony
Yeah.
00:48:00
Danny Price
So that's cool. um Kind of a bonus question or so something that I wanted to talk about, but I just wanted to hear your perspective on. So Zach Ken also asked kind of this question and I just want to throw it in there at the end.
00:48:11
Danny Price
Is there any relationship with the genealogies that we see in the Old Testament?
00:48:11
tony
Yeah.
00:48:15
Danny Price
As we're finishing out this you know this this book, this chapter, um you know he's he's talking about all these people, and they're not it's all it's not at all genealogy-based. It's not like so-and-so is begat of so-and-so. But is there do you think there's any relationship with Paul reading the Old Testament and seeing all those genealogies, and then him also like listing all these people? Is there any...
00:48:37
Danny Price
you know um coincidence with that? Or is that, you know, because I think when a lot of us see names, we just like glaze over and we don't actually read them, which is, you know, sometimes happens in the Old Testament too. um Is there any relationship? But do you think with between those two and Paul being a Jew and having that representation with the Old Testament, him, you know, ah he would obviously have known all those genealogies, or is that just not even a, it's not, ah is that not a connection?
00:48:59
tony
If that's happening, I think it's totally by God's sovereign providence. I don't think that Paul was thinking that in any way or doing that specifically at the end of Colossians.
00:49:11
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:49:11
tony
Um, like there's always a the I believe that there is always a theological reason when we see those genealogies in the Gospels and then in the Old Testament.
00:49:25
tony
right And there's there's a couple different reasons for those. The biggest one is there really is this idea of God preserving his line of of righteousness, meaning not the righteous behaviors of people, but he has...
00:49:35
Danny Price
of
00:49:42
tony
just because he said, this is going to be my people, I will affect my righteous plans through this people. That's what I mean by his righteousness. And he preserves preserves that righteous um calling and the righteous posture and ah eventually the righteous effective thing in the in the life and birth and death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
00:50:06
tony
And then the bringing together of people into the church, right? The one body now. Israel and the church, um even though Israel still has this distinctive. I'm not saying they lose that in any way, but they have that. and so preserving that line, that that's the the greatest theological distinctive for always for that.
00:50:24
tony
um I don't think Paul is trying to do that here in this letter.
00:50:27
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:50:28
tony
Yeah.
00:50:28
Danny Price
that's That's good.
00:50:29
tony
But i can so I can see, I could look at that and say, look, there's this
00:50:34
Danny Price
There's names.
00:50:34
tony
There's kind of like this, gea well, there's also the kind of like you could look at and say, you know, from our perspective now, of course, it wouldn't have been then. But from our perspective, we could say there's this kind of genealogy of first Christians who God is preserving the growth of the church through. it Like, I could see that.
00:50:52
Danny Price
Yeah, that's interesting.
00:50:52
tony
But I think that's from our standpoint, looking backwards.
00:50:54
Danny Price
Right, right, right. um
00:50:56
tony
But it's a really cool thought.
00:50:56
Danny Price
Parting thought.
00:50:57
tony
Thanks, Zach.
00:50:58
Danny Price
No, and yeah I know. it was It was a cool thought. I was just like, I'll throw that throw that out there. I wanted to talk about as we end. This is something that i was just curious about because I looked at all those names and I was like, okay, who are these people?
00:51:09
Danny Price
And one of them stuck out to me. And i I got to mention this, especially since we talked a little bit ah or we didn't talk, but it was, ah you know, the passage was talking about slavery um last week.
00:51:17
tony
Onesimus?
00:51:18
Danny Price
Onesimus. I really want to talk about Onesimus.
00:51:19
tony
Yeah.
00:51:21
Danny Price
So if you guys are listening you don't know, this is like, this blew my mind. This was like the coolest story. So he just briefly mentions him. i'm going to read it right here in Colossians 4. This is, you know, towards the end. This is verse 9. Actually, i'll read I'll read from verse 7 through 9 just so you guys can see the setup. So Tychicus, or Tychicus, however you say that, will tell you all about my activities. He is a beloved brother and faithful minister and fellow servant in the Lord. I have sent him to you for this very purpose that you may know.
00:51:47
Danny Price
how we are and that he may encourage your hearts. And with him, Onesimus, our faithful and beloved brother, who is one of you, they will tell you everything that has taken place here. So if you're just reading that and you see the word Onesimus, you're like, okay, cool. It's just some dude.
00:51:58
Danny Price
um Onesimus was a, so that that word actually means useful. which is a common slave name. So Onesimus was a slave. And if you fast fast forward in your Bible, think it's forward to the book of Philemon.
00:52:12
Danny Price
Philemon is written specifically because Onesimus was Philemon's slave. And it's written le specifically to Philemon, asking Philemon to forgive Onesimus because what Onesimus did is he stole money from Philemon and fled to Rome.
00:52:27
Danny Price
And there's debates on what on when he became a Christian as his slave.
00:52:28
tony
As his slave. So he wasn't even a released slave, right?
00:52:31
Danny Price
Yeah. He was not a release slave as a slave, so still technically legally should not have done that. um He runs to Rome, becomes a Christian. and becomes near and dear to Paul. And Paul literally says, like he he has language of, like i wish he is he has one with my heart. like i wish I don't wish to send him away um when he's writing this book of Philemon.
00:52:51
Danny Price
And he sends him back to Colossae, c however you say that. How do you say it, Tony? Colossae, Colossa, Colossaea, Colossaea.
00:52:59
tony
I say Colise. I say Colise.
00:53:02
Danny Price
So he sends him back.
00:53:02
tony
Yeah.
00:53:04
Danny Price
to where Philemon is one of the overseers in the church there asking him to forgive him. So it's this really cool, like he used to be a slave. And then there's this like redemption, this redemption that happens where he owes Philemon money and he's forgiven. It's assumed that he's forgiven this. And he actually becomes like one of the brothers and one of the trusted people that Paul has, you know traveling around spreading these letters.
00:53:27
tony
Well, it's a little messier, and it's even worse than that.
00:53:27
Danny Price
It's a little bit to, well, go ahead.
00:53:31
tony
he He's not a freed slave yet. He's actually still deserving of death, and if he returns to Philemon, he would be considered still a runaway slave.
00:53:34
Danny Price
Right.
00:53:42
tony
um And so he's asking that he would give him his freedom and forgive him.
00:53:45
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:53:46
tony
And it's it's probably he probably carried that letter of Philemon back with him in this in this journey with the Colossians letter.
00:53:52
Danny Price
Yep.
00:53:54
tony
So they probably go handin hand in hand.
00:53:55
Danny Price
Yeah, they're supposed to come together, yeah.
00:53:57
tony
Yeah. And even the cooler thing about Onesimus is that he does become a freed man, and he becomes one of the archbishops of the early church in northern Africa later on.
00:54:04
Danny Price
Yes.
00:54:06
tony
So like the highest, actually. ah Yeah.
00:54:09
Danny Price
Yes.
00:54:09
tony
Yeah. Yeah. so
00:54:11
Danny Price
I mean, that to me was just like the coolest thing. Like I had tears in my eyes. Like you think about this guy, like that's a slave that literally is, I mean, he's called useful, you know, which, you know, which is like a common slave name.
00:54:23
Danny Price
And he literally goes from being a slave to this, to this guy to escaping, you know, not legally, he's not supposed to do that. Taking his master's money. He has every right to be killed to be then being forgiven accepted you know accepted and into the kingdom into the kingdom, accepted into like the community as a brother, listed in a letter of of the Bible, and then becoming an archbishop.
00:54:42
tony
and
00:54:43
Danny Price
So I don't know.
00:54:44
tony
Yeah.
00:54:44
Danny Price
i was just For me, at least, i was just like that blew me away. i was like, that was so cool. So...
00:54:49
tony
We could do a lot more study in the end of and this, just the end of chapter four, because Mark is another remarkable story because his unreliability in his is less mature days of being a Christian was a problem for Paul.
00:54:55
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:55:08
tony
And that caused division between him and Barnabas, who were this great missionary team.
00:55:11
Danny Price
m
00:55:13
tony
And so Barnabas leaves with Mark, and Mark is like, i'm going to um I really can't depend on him.
00:55:13
Danny Price
okay
00:55:17
tony
I won't have anything to do with him. But then obviously here later on, they've reconciled, which is why he makes that specific statement. Can you read that specific statement he makes about Mark, please?
00:55:27
Danny Price
Yeah, I will. So it's right here. Aristarchus, my fellow prisoner, greets you and Mark, the cousin of bar the sorry the cousin of Barnabas. And then in quotes, it says, concerning in whom you have received instructions. If he comes to you, welcome him, in quotes.
00:55:41
tony
Yeah, so it's like both with him and Onesimus, there's this rupture that has happened relationally in the Christian church, and and it's kind of famous. Both of these are kind of famous. But then there's this reconciliation and this healing that comes about in this, and those are both just beautiful stories and beautiful pictures. And it goes back to what we were talking about earlier about um this idea of of grace and our ah talks being seasoned with I'm sorry, being full of grace.
00:56:11
tony
Both of these people experienced grace in a way after salvation that a lot of people don't.
00:56:18
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:20
tony
And so they had this position of experience to remember and reflect upon so that they would be able to do that really well. And obviously both of them went on and became significant actors in the early church because of that.
00:56:37
tony
It's really powerful.
00:56:37
Danny Price
ah
00:56:38
tony
Yeah.
00:56:39
Danny Price
It's so easy to skip over that stuff. And I'm like, that was just to me, like that was such a cool takeaway.
00:56:42
tony
Yeah, we just don't have time, bro.
00:56:44
Danny Price
I'm like, i know I was like, well, I mean, just in my reading, like you read that and you just blast through it regardless of like the sermon, you know, like I'm just like, oh yeah.
00:56:50
tony
Yeah.
00:56:51
Danny Price
And then, and then so-and-so and so-and-so and these hard to pronounce names, like not realizing like there is some deep, um,
00:56:51
tony
Yeah.
00:56:58
Danny Price
there's some deep treasure to to see there and it's not
Episode Conclusion and Future Topics
00:57:01
Danny Price
there by accident. So I i love that stuff.
00:57:02
tony
Yeah.
00:57:03
Danny Price
So I'll, I might link a couple articles. There was a couple articles and things I looked up and then I'll put the verse down there. So you guys can see that as well. If you guys want to read that for yourself. So anyways, um we're at, we're out of time.
00:57:15
Danny Price
We're running a little late. Appreciate you guys listening. um If you guys have any questions, you know, again, i always say that, but for next sermon, we're finished with Colossians. Tony, do you know what we're doing next? What is the,
00:57:28
Danny Price
What's the, before we get to Easter.
00:57:29
tony
Yeah, am i am I allowed to say? I don't know if I'm allowed to say, but yeah, we're going to be actually moving into Proverbs next and how Proverbs helps us navigate life with wisdom, which is a perfect way to to continue on in this kind of where we've been.
00:57:32
Danny Price
hu
00:57:37
Danny Price
Okay.
00:57:42
Danny Price
That's exciting. I figure if you're,
00:57:49
Danny Price
that's good. I figure if you're listening to this podcast, you probably, I mean, it's not a huge audience. I think you're, you're, you're bought in enough with the church. I'm hoping that, it would do you good to look forward to that.
00:58:00
tony
Just act surprised. Everybody, when he introduces it next next week, everybody be like, oh, oh great.
00:58:02
Danny Price
I'm surprised. We had no idea. Clap, clap really loud. Oh, good grief. That was so fun. Well, Tony, it's been fun having you on.
00:58:11
tony
Oh, that's funny.
00:58:12
Danny Price
Thanks for, thanks for listening to my rambling and questions. um It's been fun having you on talking through this stuff.
00:58:18
tony
No, thanks.
00:58:18
Danny Price
Appreciate, appreciate your wisdom.
00:58:18
tony
I agree. it's It's always fun for me as well. Thank you. I appreciate that. And ah yeah, I look forward to talking with you again in the future and listening to the rest of the podcast. So.
00:58:29
Danny Price
Yeah. Awesome. All right.
00:58:30
tony
You have a great day, my friend.
00:58:30
Danny Price
Thanks guys. Yeah.
00:58:31
tony
Thanks.
00:58:32
Danny Price
We'll catch you guys next week. I think, I think Shane, assuming he's healthy and everything's good. We'll be back next week with Shane. So, all right.
00:58:38
tony
Yeah.
00:58:38
Danny Price
Talk to you guys soon. Bye-bye.