Transcript
Danny Price: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Table Talk Discussion Podcast. This is episode 39. I'm Danny Price, and are doing a little bit of a different episode. we're getting We're getting to do a lot of these, which is fun.
Danny Price: But we're going to have some special guests on this week. Shane got COVID last week, and he was still able to kind of get better and and teach through Sunday.
Danny Price: Um, and we were really close to, and spread it to the church, right?
Ben Dover: I mean, spread it to the church.
Danny Price: We were really close to recording. Um, and he he texted me, he was like, I'm really not feeling good. And so we kind of scrambled a little bit last minute just to try to figure out what the best thing to do was. Because again, i want to be as consistent as possible with this and not just be kind of all ah all over the place every time something comes up. So anyway, so we have special guests on. So I asked my wife, Hannah, and then David and Morgan Finley, who David's, if you guys don't know, Shane's son and Morgan's his wife. I asked them to be on the podcast to...
Danny Price: Just kind of, we're going to do a little bit more of a round table. I'm really excited for it. We're all younger, kind of like right around that 30 year old age. Hannah's a little younger. So we're, kind of just people going to the church that are all in different ministries. Hannah actually has staff at the church. David's pretty much staff. I mean, he leads the men's ministry and does everything in between. So we're all really close, near and dear to the church. And I thought it'd be cool for us to just kind of go through these questions. We did pivot a little bit on some of the questions just because there's some of them. And I'll notate some of that. That's a little bit of Shane's expertise I want to lean in on more. but
Danny Price: We thought it'd be fun just to just discuss the different questions from you know a very casual layperson's perspective. We're going to be trying to reference scripture as much as possible, but we're excited. You guys want to comment on that? Are you excited, babe? I'm so excited. This is her this is your second time on the podcast? Second time. Second time?
Ben Dover: Yeah, I'm stressed.
Danny Price: David, this is your second time on the podcast.
Ben Dover: um
Danny Price: mor Morgan, you're you're stressed?
Ben Dover: I'm stressed.
Danny Price: This is so fun.
Ben Dover: This is out of my comfort zone.
Danny Price: This is so fun.
Ben Dover: This is not scripted, but I have a um prompt question maybe that girls could kind of warm up with is just how did you know we all meet, like our spouses, and how long we've been married?
Danny Price: oh my gosh yeah that's good
Ben Dover: Yeah, and I was going to say ah just a reclarification of like how we're related because people get confused. People think Hannah and I are sisters. People think Danny and David are brothers. Yeah.
Danny Price: I've gotten that me and David are married actually so that's awesome you guys you guys go first you guys go first what's your what who's related to what you guys are you guys cousins or not let's settle it once and for all yeah
Ben Dover: This is not Alabama.
Ben Dover: Yeah. So David is Shane's son. I'm the daughter-in-law. so Hannah and I are sister-in-laws. Hannah and David are brother and sister. That all is clear.
Danny Price: Did you catch that? Take notes. There you go.
Ben Dover: Yeah. um We've been married for almost 12 years. and Next month.
Danny Price: Dang.
Ben Dover: Yeah. Grew up in Mountain View's youth group together. yeah Was there another question? How we met. Oh, and youth group, basically.
Ben Dover: We were like two of the like eight kids that went to youth group at the time when the church started.
Danny Price: Dang.
Danny Price: I was going to say.
Ben Dover: Yeah.
Danny Price: There's not been a big youth group. And then you guys, so you got married and you didn't get married here because you guys and got married in, because David was in the military. Where'd you guys get married again?
Danny Price: New Orleans, right?
Ben Dover: Louisiana.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: Yeah. Close to New Orleans.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: 19. 19.
Danny Price: And you didn't live here until, when did you guys move back? 20, was it 2020? 2019. Okay.
Ben Dover: nineteen point nineteen Yep.
Danny Price: Awesome. Awesome.
Ben Dover: Peyton was a just been born and now we have three kids thanks to COVID.
Danny Price: awesome
Ben Dover: um
Danny Price: yeah
Ben Dover: And yeah, we met in high school, went to Wasatch.
Danny Price: No.
Ben Dover: We dated for like four years. So we started dating before we could drive. Yeah.
Danny Price: High school sweethearts.
Ben Dover: Yeah.
Danny Price: That's cool. I love that. right, babe, you want to give us, give our
Ben Dover: We're
Danny Price: little rundown um we've we've been married six years it'll be yeah it'll be seven october seven in october and um we met through a mutual friend um actually like see be if you're out there yeah so if you guys know michelle burchart her daughter um and i kind of just joined the homeschool friend group which i was public schooled and that's kind of how we started hanging out And yeah we dated for two years before getting married and got married in 2019.
Danny Price: 2019, right before COVID, like literally six, not even six months before COVID. Morgan and David came back just to, Morgan helped me with the wedding just in time. Yeah, we literally got married and we had a little bit of time to kind of get under, like our feet under ourselves, newlywed season. COVID struck.
Danny Price: Literally, the country shut down. was kind of nice. We honestly got to know each other pretty well because of that. I hope we got so much. We got locked in with each other and the family, too.
Ben Dover: but
Danny Price: I know them pretty well, I'd like to say. Our families, obviously, we kind of didn't really respect the COVID rules with family, so that was Oh, yeah.
Ben Dover: Yeah, Danny and I and only met each other one time before you guys got married.
Danny Price: We have...
Danny Price: I know. We always talk about how weird that weren't in my wedding. And you weren't in my wedding. I do feel bad about that.
Ben Dover: Yeah, but...
Danny Price: I'm like, I should have.
Ben Dover: would you feel glad you didn't even know each other?
Danny Price: You didn't know him at all.
Ben Dover: Hmm.
Danny Price: I know, but I should have known that like you. One day, you'd be best friends. And we also, yeah, we have two kids, one on the way. Yeah, yeah. We have two kids, one on the way. That's due in what? Two months?
Danny Price: May, yeah. little more, yeah. Awesome. um So if you guys did not catch the message, you can stop this podcast and go listen to that first. It'll give you more so more context. We're going to be focusing on different parts. Again, these questions, it's not just a full the full breadth of the whole sermon. We're going to pick different parts. I'm actually going to read the passage just because I figured just to have everyone on the same page. So this is in Colossians 3. We're going through Colossians as a church. We've been there for, what, six six weeks now? We have a couple more.
Danny Price: So this is Colossians 3, 18 through the end of the chapter of 25. So here we go. here we go Wives, submit to your husbands as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.
Danny Price: Children, obey your parents in everything for this pleases the Lord. Fathers, do not provoke your children lest they become discouraged. Bondservants, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye service as people pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. Whatever you do, work heartily as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ, for the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong that he has done. There is no partiality.
Danny Price: So we're going to spend more time focusing on some of like the marriage stuff. I did want to give a really just quick shout out. So me and Shane, we were going to try to get into the whole slavery thing and biblical slavery, like what it looks like in the Bible.
Danny Price: I shouldn't, I got to rephrase that. Not like biblical slavery, but what it looks like in the Bible.
Ben Dover: Yeah, that was...
Danny Price: Not it. But... um Just because you know he's not here, um we're not going to try to dive into that and tackle that right now. I am going to put a resource. There was another podcast. We've we've referenced it before, but the Live Free podcast. um Last November, they did kind of a deep dive. Hannah and I actually listened to it. We just went on a road trip and we listened to it.
Danny Price: They really just unpack everything about slavery in the Bible and what it what it was, what it was not. most importantly, um, and just kind of just unpacking some of the common debates and arguments people will use to kind of dis discredit the Bible because it has slavery in it.
Danny Price: Um, totally just not even paying attention to the awesome things that Christians have done and how you know valuable God sees every human, uh, So anyways, it's really cool. I'm going to, going to link that and i'm gonna put the timestamp because it's a very long podcast. So you guys can listen to that if you're curious. And I know maybe some of you came into this podcast, knowing about the sermon, that's kind of burning in your head. you're like, what about slavery? And this is a great place for you to go just to kind of get some of those answers. They do a great job with it. So the first question that we have is from a listener. Actually, a bunch of our questions are from listeners. So I'm, I'm excited.
Danny Price: um The first one, and again, this is dealing more with the later part of Colossians. It says, in light of the concept of, in quotes, no neutral moments, how can my non-ministry work, for example, property management, accounting, construction, be used for God's kingdom in a way that honors God?
Danny Price: Does anyone have any thoughts when I say that? mean Anything jumping out? How can you honor God in just your normal non-ministry life?
Ben Dover: I would say the first thing that kind of came to mind, um, as I was thinking this mulling this question over, um, was the question itself. I think that if we ask this question on a regular basis and allow God to to answer it, that's one of the best ways that, you know, cause I think that it's going look different for everybody and having, it's not really a cut and dry pasted moment.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: And every day is a little bit different too. Like as a property manager, uh, was one of the things listed there. You know, you're constantly going around to different properties. You're meeting with different people. You're working with different contractors, subcontractors.
Ben Dover: Um, and I think God presents moments and opportunities in those days to those of us who are are listening for his voice.
Danny Price: yeah
Ben Dover: And so I think, you know, if we wake up every morning and we say, God, how can this day be used for your kingdom? God, how can my job today be used for your kingdom? I think he's going to shed light on, on that in different ways.
Ben Dover: Um, by us just being attentive to his word.
Danny Price: Yeah. Well, that's really good. Hannah, Morgan, you guys have any thoughts?
Ben Dover: I just think we're all going to if we haven't already, i think everyone hits a point in their life when they're like, why do you have me here? and Like maybe your job just doesn't seem purposeful or maybe you see others that are in like a bigger role than you. And you're kind of wondering,
Ben Dover: yeah, why do you have me here, God? And I think sometimes we just need to be obedient and trust God and we might not know why Like we might not get the answer.
Ben Dover: um so I think it's just continually trusting that, you know, we're there for God's purposes and just walking with him and being open to you know, what he has in front of us.
Danny Price: oh
Danny Price: Yeah, that's really good. Hannah? Yeah, I mean, I feel like I definitely am an overthinker, so I struggle with like feeling like, am I being, there's no neutral, so what am i doing? Am I going forward or going backward? So I definitely feel like, but like what David said, I think it's just like being intentional and...
Danny Price: asking yourself that question is a pretty good sign that you're probably you know moving forward if that's where your heart is and your intention is to be having that in the forefront of your mind and giving that day to god and i feel like you know kind of just starting your day with like god you know let me see the people that you want me to see and um and then being bold that if he puts something or someone in front of you and you know, you have something on your heart than being willing to say it. And sometimes it's just as simple as I feel like making somebody's day better and being not so stuck in your own head and your own world, but really just seeing people where they're at too.
Danny Price: Yeah. um I, we went to this conference just recently. I'm actually going to talk at another episode about that. There's some really cool takeaways, but they did talk about this about being in industries and being in things that are just not ministry.
Danny Price: And what I, My biggest takeaway, what I thought was really cool was just a lot of these guys that were in on other industries that just happened to be Christian, with they were saying it's really, really important that whatever you're doing, and this kind of lends itself to the passage, you're just doing really, really gosh dang quality work. Whatever you're doing, you're just putting your mind to it and you're hustling. Um, and that's one of the best witnesses. If you say you're a Christian, like for example, let's say you're an accountant and you're like, well, I'm a Christian. you tell every single person that you're a Christian, but your work ethic doesn't show it. And what you're doing for your clients doesn't show it. That's like the worst possible witness. Cause you're literally saying this is what a Christian does in the marketplace. This is what a Christian does in whatever industry it is. I kind of do a halfway job. I don't really, I don't really do a good job for you. I don't really communicate well. I don't do whatever. Um, I think it was CS Lewis. Um,
Danny Price: He had this quote, and I want to pull it up. And it was talking about Christian literature, which you know back then was you know kind of like coming on, becoming more popular. And C.S. Lewis has said this, the world does not need more Christian literature. What it needs is more Christians writing good literature.
Danny Price: And so again, there's ah there's a subtle difference in that.
Ben Dover: Yeah.
Danny Price: He's not saying he like Christians don't write literature. He's saying we need Christians writing really good stuff. that from a Christian perspective, like that's what we need. We don't need just an overflow of just a mass.
Danny Price: We don't need a ton of Christian plumbers, for example, that Christians that call themselves plumbers. We need the best plumbers out there to be Christian. So like shout out to Dustin Fenderly. If you're listening, like he's an electrician and he's a really good electrician and he is a good electrician because of his Christian values and how hard he works.
Danny Price: So that's just kind of an example of just how you can have a witness and how you can be serving God's kingdom from that perspective of
Ben Dover: Yeah, and I think, well, that verse 23, right? Whatever you do, do enthusiastically as something done for the Lord, not for men. you know And just knowing that part of our job is to work well. God created mankind to work. you know And I think sometimes this question can can be geared a little bit more in that mindset. As a parent, in and I know both you as stay-at-home moms, it can be sometimes evident if not you know a thousand times more difficult because kids are exhausting, but you you do see like, hey, this is my calling, right? Whereas like sometimes it can be like, well, I'm just installing conduit.
Ben Dover: Right. Like, how do I do that for the Lord?
Danny Price: Awesome.
Ben Dover: a couple good resources I would like to point to, too. Um, I have not read this one, but every good endeavor by Tim Keller heard a lot of great things about how, um, how that book really points to how we work for the Lord.
Ben Dover: The other one that i have read, full time, work in the meaning of life by David Banson, I think is how you say his last name. Um, but a really good book.
Ben Dover: I would highly recommend
Danny Price: awesome With that, I also just want to say, yeah, with the mom perspective, I had a moment with a friend and I feel like that really stood out to me where we were on a walk and my oldest was throwing fit and I had to stop the walk to take him out and discipline him.
Danny Price: And she was like, you're doing the Lord's work. And it was kind of like a funny like thing to say, but we were like, no, but really, like she's like, you are like When you stop in those moments as a mom and you take the time,
Ben Dover: Thank
Danny Price: to yeah discipline or respond in patience and love which is not how I am always doing it but sometimes you know but I feel like as a mom it feels like really yeah easy to sometimes feel like you're not like you don't see your role in God's calling sometimes and it feels like well I'm not even around adults like how am I supposed to impact people but just remember for the moms out there that those little things you're doing the Lord's work
Ben Dover: yeah
Ben Dover: yeah I think that um hit me a lot in the sermon when Shane was just emphasizing you know emphasizing the audience of one the whole title of the sermon um just about when no one's like watching because I think yes um In some ways, staying home is is rewarding because you do get to see the fruits of your labor over time with yeah your kids. But at the same time, there's a lot of being alone and, you know, a lot of dishes and wiping butts and things that are just seem
Ben Dover: pointless at times are very mundane because it's the same day every day, but to realize, you know, who are you serving in those times? And I think it can be easy as like a Christian when you, um, interact with another adult and to put on your best self, but when you're just alone and you're serving your family in those like unseen ways,
Ben Dover: Um, I think that's really important to change your heart because if you don't, then you're just bitterness is gonna, you know, grow.
Danny Price: That's really good. Awesome.
Ben Dover: Yeah. That's a good word.
Danny Price: Next question. um Jumping more into more marriage and male-female roles. Why is the man called to be the head... that is called to lead, love, and die for his wife, while the woman is called to submit and respect him.
Danny Price: you know and And again, this he keeps going with this question. like Why are our roles our roles? Why is it that way? This is from a listener. And I thought it was a really good question because it's a hard question to answer. um Does anyone want to take a stab at that? That's not it's no small feat. that's get Getting into it.
Ben Dover: and now I know. was like, that's a good one. don't know.
Danny Price: Yeah, that's a really good question.
Ben Dover: know
Danny Price: I like don't feel like this always applies to everyone, but I've heard that perspective like shared before, and I definitely feel like sometimes I relate to that, but that like in some ways it's almost like the opposite of what our actual natural inclination is sometimes, or at least as a woman I feel like maybe that's just culture nowadays too, that women kind of have this, we're perfectionists all the time, or just like really...
Danny Price: we get where because of being home with the kids or something like we kind of want to lead and we're like this is how it should be done I feel like dad really convicted me in the sermon when he was like are you letting your husband like lead the way he's called to lead you know and just like it's easy to be like this is how I envision you will lead and and I I feel like it's just like so silly like you know like that's not how things work and so just kind of like
Ben Dover: You just said,
Danny Price: I think that we're, yeah, called to kind of, don't know, just submit that to God and like let like that desire to lead go and to trust.
Danny Price: Yeah. in the in In the men as the head of the household. But I feel like there's also a lot of things like as far as natural giftings go to though, that are, that ah do speak to the fact that in my opinion, yeah, men, well, not in my opinion, the Bible's opinion, that men should be, should lead. And I feel like there's a lot of things about um this natural gifting that does make men really well qualified for that as well. So what you were trying to say at the beginning, what you were trying to say, correct me if I'm wrong, that our natural inclinations, like, it
Danny Price: men sometimes like they would they would slip into being more passive and women would slip into be being more domineering and this is like to counteract that that what you're saying yeah sorry i definitely feel like i was a little unclear like i think i see in culture sometimes that that's like a fault is that men will slip into laziness and women will take charge um and sometimes that's also natural but there's also yeah i think counteracting parts where there is men's gifting as well yeah i can see both ways i think yeah ahead
Ben Dover: Yeah, I think on – well, on the natural, like, inclination side, I think we tend to over or under um fall into our our natural inclinations, right?
Ben Dover: So I think there are a lot of men who will fall into passivity, but there are also a lot of men who fall more into dominerance and abusiveness.
Danny Price: Yeah, it's true.
Ben Dover: And so it's, like, one or the other. And, you know, ah same thing on on the women's side. And I think oftentimes, like – at least from some experience, like women who tend to fall more into the domineering have often been hurt by, by a man who has not fulfilled his role well.
Danny Price: Mm.
Ben Dover: And, and the flip side of that is you also have women who like beat as a protective mechanism will fall into passivity um when, when there's a domineering man, male presence.
Danny Price: Mm.
Ben Dover: And so I think, you know, both can be wrong as far as like the question goes though of like why our roles are our roles i mean in some aspects i do kind of go well you kind of that's a question that we're going eventually have to ask god like god why did you make birds fly like he made it a certain way um i also think of the office quote where uh they have two managers don't know if you guys are office connoisseurs like I am but they they make this running joke about how like yeah who doesn't know about the ship with two captains and the nation with two presidents and um and talking about ah yeah the two popes um and you know they kind make a joke about how that's not going work and I think God in his divine wisdom also knew like you do have to have headship there has to be ah an order and a hire and he built an order and hierarchy to things um
Danny Price: ha
Danny Price: The two popes. no
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: not to rule over in in anger or in abusiveness, but to to lead into love. And so I think um he also gave gave us unique giftings for our roles as you know protectors and providers, as nurturers and as lovers.
Danny Price: yeah
Ben Dover: I think in individual men and women, we we have definitely tendency towards the gifts he's given us and we can use them in the right way or we can choose self. And, um, that's kind of a lot this is about is just like that. What kingdom are you building? That was last week's sermon and, uh, and using those gifts to either build God's kingdom or your own.
Danny Price: Yeah, that's really good. i said um So just like, again, just to hit the hit the question, like why are are our roles our roles? To be honest, I mean, I mean i don't have the, and I have the biblical answer to that.
Ben Dover: Thank you.
Danny Price: I don't know. There's some things that the way God just sets it up and I don't a hundred percent and understand everything about it. I'm just going to go back to Genesis two, just reminding you guys, you know, the creation story.
Danny Price: And it talks about, God creates man. And then it says right here in Genesis 2, 18, and the Lord God said, it is not good that man should be alone. I will make a a helper fit for him. And then he goes and makes all the animals and beasts, and there was no helper suitable for him.
Danny Price: And then he causes you know Adam to go to a deep sleep and... takes one of his ribs and closes closes up the place with flesh that he took the rib from, and he gives him women who really quite literally, you know, if you look at the word helper or help meet in Genesis,
Danny Price: it's a really powerful word that means Azar, Azar, which is again, just referencing kind of what the Holy spirit does, does for us as well. Um, so this powerful counselor and helper, um, so again, just, that's just the way God set it up. I don't understand why, but God gave the woman this role of like this, like counselor helper, um, support and God gave the role to men to be, um,
Danny Price: leaders and protectors and providers. Now, that being said, I'm not saying that women can't lead in certain capacities. I'm not saying that men can't be supportive in helpful and helpful in capacities. Again, this is just the primary function.
Danny Price: But to answer the question, like, I don't know. i just know what the Bible tells me. And so it just, it just says that. And I don't i don't understand everything about why. And again, hammering the home hammering hammering home the point that that doesn't mean that men and women aren't equal.
Danny Price: We have different role and function, but are completely equal in our standing before God and our, and like, I gotta be careful how I say this, but in our sonship with God, because we're, A lot of people will say, well, we're sons and daughters of God, but he literally calls all of us his sons because we all have that firstborn right and inheritance when we come into the kingdom of God.
Danny Price: Now, I'm not saying that women are sons in like the male sense. like we're not I'm not saying women are males.
Ben Dover: Yeah.
Danny Price: Got to be careful. But we have that women don't have that same inheritance that men do. There is no difference. So i just wanted to like put that out there for everyone. i don't know if that answers the question or gives more clarity if anyone else wants to jump in.
Ben Dover: I was just thinking it's a lot like, you know why are we called to worship? And I think the the reason that we worship is because that's how he created us. The reason that men are intended to be protectors and providers in the home is because that's how God created men.
Danny Price: Yeah. Uh-huh.
Ben Dover: And the reason that women are meant to be nurturers and caregivers and supporters is because that's how God created women.
Danny Price: and
Ben Dover: And i think, you know when we live in, the blessings and and the way that he calls us to live life, there are blessings that flow from that. um when we're when we're living the way that God has made us to live, like when we live in worship of him, there is undeniably incredible blessings that come to to our life, both not necessarily in finances or like, hey, you get whatever you want.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: It's like a gin in a bottle. But the the peace and the and the love and the overwhelming grace that you feel, and obviously the eternal salvation that you have and the redeeming nature of Christ is is upon you, like that is...
Ben Dover: it's what we're here to do. And I think that this is just a ah small piece of that. Just like children were were created, you know, to be obedient to our parents and we are all created as children of God to be obedient to him.
Danny Price: Yeah, that's that's really good. Yeah. Do you guys want to touch that anymore or feel good about that? Yeah, I really like all that. That's really well said.
Ben Dover: Yep.
Danny Price: Awesome. Next question.
Danny Price: In a marriage where one spouse is sincerely trying to follow the commands, like like laid out in Colossians 3, loving sacrificially or submitting respectfully, but feels like their spouse isn't pursuing their role in the same way, how should they handle it? Is there a healthy way to address it or seek accountability without being critical or controlling?
Danny Price: That's a tough question.
Danny Price: Anybody want to jump on that? Let's see.
Danny Price: There's no wrong wrong answers until you say a wrong answer.
Ben Dover: Yeah.
Danny Price: I feel like there's like different levels and extremes to this, too. I listened to a podcast today, actually, which never happens. Shout out to me. i'm so proud.
Danny Price: Yeah. No, it was because this conference we just went to. um But it was the Intentional Fatherhood podcast with Justin Early.
Ben Dover: good one.
Danny Price: And then his wife was on for this episode. And were just of talking about like keeping score a little bit and how we can tend to do that sometimes in marriage. And so I feel like...
Danny Price: In a smaller level, like there's a problem, there's definitely a more extreme to this where, you know, one spouse really is just diligently pursuing this role and one spouse just, maybe there's so many variations to that, like they could not be Christian even, so they could not even be pursuing the role at all, they could see things completely differently. And so that would be a lot more...
Danny Price: extreme but there's also i feel like a level to it where we're in our head like i'm over here pursuing my role and look at them are they even trying and and you kind of are like comparing and keeping score so i feel like that level more so i just really liked what they had to say about like um
Ben Dover: Yeah.
Danny Price: Just about how would you, yeah, pretty much, I mean, as we all know, but we're just focusing back in on your role and how you're just trying to serve that person. And it's not about getting that credit and them seeing things that you're doing and stuff. like And when you can reverse that and just remember that like you're probably both telling yourself that. Yeah.
Danny Price: I feel like in those seasons where you both feel maybe depleted or overwhelmed and so you're feeling like I'm doing everything, they also are feeling like they're doing everything. Like, you know, so you can kind of like both be feeling like that and just to get out of your head and not think like...
Danny Price: Yeah, well, I'm doing the most and rather to be like, hey, you know, I really I see what you're doing and I appreciate the work that you're putting in and how can I serve you as well.
Ben Dover: Thanks.
Danny Price: But there's definitely an extreme to that. That's like a whole nother level when and i I mean, I have friendships or relationships like that where you hear it's like, I mean, it could be somewhat abusive or it could be just like, yeah, they're just completely on a different page.
Danny Price: And that's I don't even know. You guys have to speak into that. I don't know what to say.
Ben Dover: I think you're right in that there's just so many ways the question could go.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: Because the first thing that came to mind for me was like the person who's not necessarily bitter towards their spouse about it, but just very discouraged.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: And like, I want what's best for you. And, you know, like, and for us, and I want to see our marriage healed. Or like, maybe there was something that happened or like one person came to Christ. I just, I know people who who are in the thick of it and they're really trying and they're not necessarily bitter or angry, but they are,
Ben Dover: it's very discouraged and worn out. And so, um, I think there's just so many ways to look at that question, but one thing I think that might be a good way to help answer this for all of us would be, um, one, I think what we should all have accountability with other brothers and sisters in Christ, but two, like ladies, if you could kind of speak to, if we as men, um wanted to come to you and say, Hey, I think that this is somewhere where I would like to correct you on lovingly.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
Ben Dover: um how like How would you encourage husbands to approach their wives? And then maybe we we can flip it and say, like you know from our perspective, how we would encourage women to approach their husbands and what kind of advice we'd have around that.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ben Dover: Yeah, I think it's... extremely important to be in community with other solid believers and people that you know, love your spouse also.
Ben Dover: um because you know, when you're going, if you're going to others for counsel, um you need to be really careful about that. Um, protect, like, you know, protect your marriage and protect and honor your spouse in that. Um,
Ben Dover: So, cause that's part of my, I guess, advice would be like first, you know, pray second. I always like to get opinions from other people that are wiser and further along in their marriages than I am.
Ben Dover: Um, and I think going into it, well, one, you know, timing is very important, like practically, So like not when you're changing diapers. Yeah. okay um And to even like warn, you know, your spouse, like, Hey, I want to, you know, have a conversation about this.
Ben Dover: um Because, know, I, at least for me personally, I can, um, take critiques a lot better if I'm mentally prepared to not be defensive because defense, like being defensive is my first instinct.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: Um, and then I think too, just remembering that it's not you against them and wording it that way, that, um you know, that you guys are a team and I would love it if we could do change this. And if we could change this, not, you know, like you're not doing this and you're not doing that um is like really going to change the direction of the conversation, I think.
Ben Dover: So that's my practical tips.
Danny Price: yeah Yeah, which I feel like you should really now because it's just coming up even again because they actually literally talked about having biblical friendships and just so much of what you said in this podcast. I'm like, you should link that. I'll link But yeah, I definitely agree. i feel like i am exactly like what you're saying, like expressing that you're on the same team. And i don't know, maybe that's a woman thing, but I also like to get defensive. So But I think if anything, like, yeah, timing, like you said, like, not in the moment of it coming up. Like, try to let it simmer and then kind of be like, hey, yeah, this is like, I think I don't actually have that hard of a time as long as it is, like, what she's saying. Like, yeah.
Danny Price: hey, let's, I'd love to sit down and then just expressing like your heart, like I'm doing this because I love you and I want us to, yeah, I want our marriage to thrive. I feel like this is, I've been feeling convicted. This is on my heart from God. Like, you know, you can't really argue with God.
Danny Price: So, you know, i feel like if it's coming from a place of God talking to you, you're like, ah, all right, I have to receive this.
Ben Dover: perspective
Ben Dover: think you can but you're gonna lose so
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah. You can't, you're like, ah, so, but yeah, just expressing your heart for sure. Yeah. um What about us? How do we?
Ben Dover: So if I could summarize that into like three things that I heard, um and but I think one of the things you said is was so good, babe, just pray first.
Danny Price: Yes.
Ben Dover: I think we skipped that step in addressing almost all conflict with with fellow believers or spouses or kids, like just starting with with prayer.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
Ben Dover: um And yeah sometimes i think God might just address it for you.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
Ben Dover: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: But then pray is what I'm hearing. I'm hearing timing, making sure that it, you know, and and prepping like, hey, I want to have a conversation. And then the third was express the the feelings, not just the like.
Ben Dover: as like As a man, like when I'm if I have an issue with Danny, i'm just gonna say, hey, dude, I have an issue with you And this is what it is. I don't feel the need to say, hey, our friendship is really important to me. And, you know, I just really want you to know I love you.
Ben Dover: Like, I'm just gonna so make sure that we add that in there as well.
Danny Price: Okay. Okay. That's a
Ben Dover: Is that like a pretty fair summary of what you're both saying?
Danny Price: good summary.
Ben Dover: um Yeah, that just reminded me.
Danny Price: Yeah, that's good.
Ben Dover: There's a book which I listened to like a tiny bit of it, but it's called The Praying Wife by Stormy ah Martin.
Danny Price: Thank you.
Ben Dover: I don't know a say her last name. um And it was kind of you know, on the more extreme side, like she was ready to, she wanted to like divorce her husband and over just praying heavily over her marriage and over her husband, she, you know, was God revealed so many things to her about herself and without her like bringing things to her husband, God changed her heart.
Ben Dover: And in turn, like that helped change her husband's heart. So I think, um, I've heard that before and I feel like that's, really hard to do.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
Ben Dover: Um, but to, yeah not even to trust God and not even bring it up to your husband and pray that, you know, God will either reveal it to him or, you know, maybe there's something that he needs to show you that you need to change.
Ben Dover: Um, yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah, that's good. Um, did want to say a a couple of things and then I'll do like my thing. Um, I think it goes without saying, but just in case anyone's hearing what we're saying and misunderstanding, this is not talking about, um, if your husband or wife is physically abusing you or, or anything like that, like anything that's like serious along those lines, that's a totally different situation. This is normal married squabbles, scople squabbles, um,
Danny Price: and things And issues that can lead to you know that can lead to divorce unchecked. That's more what we're talking about. We're not talking about... um You should not let your husband beat you over and over again and hope that he'll change his mind eventually. That's not what we're that's not what we're saying. um just ah And I don't think that wasn't alluded to. I just wanted to clarify, get ahead get ahead of that. um For me, it's hard because it's like, I think it's it's kind of the same the same thing. Like, that's what I would want if you guys were going to come to me.
Danny Price: I shouldn't say you guys, my wife.
Ben Dover: Okay.
Danny Price: Morgan, going to come to me and tell me how I'm about. But um I think it's it's really similar.
Ben Dover: andson
Danny Price: The only thing I would add, and maybe this is just my sensitivity, I guess, to this is... A lot of time, i think men will hear something from their wife, and it's not voiced clearly. like And again, like you know what you guys said, like set aside a time.
Danny Price: But just you airing a grievance or a frustration in an exasperated way is over and over again is not the same as this.
Danny Price: So if you're coming to me and you're saying, hey, this is how I feel about this.
Ben Dover: Thanks.
Danny Price: I prayed about this, whatever. Can talk to you? And like you talk about your your issue. That goes over really well. And then along with that is, and then let let it sit for a little bit. I think a lot of times we want, you know i'm guilty I'm just as guilty of this. like We want answers and we want change and we want results immediately.
Danny Price: So when you bring something to someone, you get that big load off your chest and then you're like, all right. Now it's time for you to do the work and to get better. And um God works you know in in slow ways in people's hearts.
Ben Dover: but
Danny Price: And I'm not saying that this is an excuse for men to be lazy or you know vice versa, for women to be lazy about changing. But there is a slow process of a heart change with this. And um sometimes we're really quick to, and I'm sensitive to this because I get frustrated when that happens to me when someone tells me about something and they want it to change overnight instantly.
Danny Price: And I'm like, you just reminded me about that. Yeah. So women trust that God's working in your husband's heart. hud's Husbands also trust that God's working in your wife's heart. If you do bring something to them, um you know, again, this isn't about, you know pecking them to death with like small nitpicking comments from both sides. This is about like seeking, seeking serious change. So I don't, that's the only thing I would add would just be like not doing that over and over again and saying, Hey, can I talk to you? Can I talk to you? Can I talk to you every single day? Yeah. Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah, and definitely because...
Ben Dover: Yeah, I would go ahead.
Danny Price: Oh, yeah, you go. That's okay.
Ben Dover: OK. I was going say, I think um i would ah encourage ladies to, as much as possible, drive down to the root of what's truly wrong.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
Ben Dover: I think sometimes, ah if as a man, I hear a problem, and i go into fix it mode, and I just want to fix that problem. you know And if it's like, hey, you're you're not you're leaving your beard hair on the counter when you're trimming your beard. And I think sometimes it can be more like, hey, and it's like all these little things, but the the root of it is I'm feeling disrespected by the way that you handle our house. And you it feels like you're just asking me to
Danny Price: Yes.
Ben Dover: come in and do these things. And so I think some just drive down to like, well, I'm mad at him for this. Well, why am I mad at him for this? And then when you do present that to him, um, kind of be, be as honest and but and straightforward as you can, about what it's making you feel.
Ben Dover: Um, cause I, think that is a lot of guys will completely miss it.
Danny Price: Yep,
Ben Dover: Like we'll be like, oh yeah, well I just need to sweep my beard hair away, but I won't solve the 19 of the things that I'm doing. like I leave my, kick my shoes off when I go inside or something like that.
Danny Price: yep. yep
Ben Dover: Right. And the, I'm not addressing the root of the issue. I'm just putting a bandaid on it. And I think frankly, cause he probably doesn't know. Like I think most of us as guys were just, were very blunt and honest and straightforward. And we just like, yeah, I wasn't even thinking about it. Sorry.
Ben Dover: and one, one resource too, like,
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: is the Bible. But no, seriously, Ephesians 4, 25 through the end of the chapter is all about, um you know, reconciling with with believers. But I think so much of it, and you've probably heard it utilized in many marriage books before. This is this passage that talks about not letting the sun go down on your anger, not giving the devil a foothold, speaking the truth in love, allowing only what comes from your mouth to be building others up and also reconciling forgiving one another as Christ forgave us, all of these things, you know, are a great reminder. And so I think consistently reading that and being in the word together and praying together is another great way to resolve. Hmm.
Ben Dover: resolve
Danny Price: Yeah, that's really good. yeah so about Just to put a put put a bow on that wrap it up, I did want to also say, you know what we're talking about in this kind of roundtable, you know David and Morgan, Hannah and i I, think we have you know pretty healthy marriages. Hopefully, most of you guys listening and do as well. um I do want to be careful.
Danny Price: The Bible is clear on the rules of you know what husband and what women are supposed to do in their marriages. Your job is not to ensure, for for example, for a husband, your husband, it's not your job to make sure your wife listens and respects and loves you.
Ben Dover: Mm-hmm.
Danny Price: That's that's not... and submits to you. That's not what it says it says. It says specifically the commands, and every time it talks about this in the Bible, it says specifically to the party that it concerns. So if he talks to wives and what they're supposed to do and then husbands, what they're supposed to do. Nowhere does it say wives see to it that, or husbands see to it that.
Danny Price: And just reminding, you know we have a pretty open ah we don't have open marriages, but we have open communication. we have open communication marriages. And so it's a little easier to talk about some of this stuff when you're feeling disrespected. And that takes time to earn and build.
Danny Price: um I just, I did just want to point this out. If you're married to someone who's completely neglecting their role, maybe they're not a believer or they're completely neglecting their role. There is a verse that talks about that in first Peter and first Peter three.
Danny Price: um This is super interesting. says, likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct but the conduct of their wives. When they see you, you're respectful and pure conduct.
Danny Price: but they Sorry, when they see you, respectful and pure conduct. And then it goes on about other things because he's talking to women in that specific passage. So again, i'm not talking about abuse. I'm just saying for a wife that maybe is feeling like i am in this marriage, my husband doesn't seem to be owning his role.
Danny Price: i mean it says what, I mean, obviously maybe you can maybe bring that up, but it also says like, this is how you're supposed to act. Like you're supposed to like be respectful and God's gonna do a work in his heart and he'll see that and it'll it'll it'll change.
Danny Price: So I just wanted to kind of give a,
Ben Dover: Mm-hmm.
Danny Price: just kind of put a bow on that and say, this is not for us. We're not saying you need to go and make your wife submit or husband. You need to go make your husband be loving to you. This is, this is just helpful communication tips that we found as, you know, people that have been married for a little bit.
Danny Price: So.
Ben Dover: Yeah. And i wrote down um from the sermon that Shane made the point of saying that your marriage isn't about your spouse. It's about God. And i was like, yeah, I definitely didn't not go into marriage that way.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Ben Dover: And I think that's just really important and really, you know, counter to like our culture.
Danny Price: That
Ben Dover: If you're not a Christian, then, you know, that just doesn't make sense. marriage is all about the other person. And that's why, you know, unfortunately a lot of marriages don't last through the long haul. Um, but yeah.
Danny Price: was really good.
Ben Dover: Yeah. And I think that's even what the question was saying too, right?
Danny Price: yes
Ben Dover: Like what do we do when we're just completely at the end of it? Um, and so the, the first resort should be like to look inward always, um, and to, to seek,
Ben Dover: counsel to pray diligently. So I like that. That's a good way to end that question, Danny.
Danny Price: That's good. um We're going to be over time just by the way, guys listening. we're just This is so fun to talk about this.
Ben Dover: but
Danny Price: So um just like ahead just a heads up. um Next question. Again, so far, these have all been from listeners. This is really cool. Next question is... For someone who realizes they failed badly in their role as a husband, wife, or parent, but has genuinely repented and changed, what does it look like to rebuild trust when the damage has already been done?
Danny Price: How should that person pursue restoration when others may still be hurt or hesitant to trust again? That's a doozy of a question as well. Very difficult. Does anyone want to try to take a stab at that of just some biblical wisdom or some thoughts?
Ben Dover: man i just have a lot of heart and hurt for for people i know that are going through that and they're trying to rebuild and they just don't know what to do and on both sides and uh yeah now i don't have anything right now and that's a great question i i thought about it a lot too and i still just was not able to come up with a ton um other than, you know, the only thing it kind of reminds me of is this diligence in the faith, right?
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: That we haven't we are called to endurance, whether it's in love towards other believers or endurance in our marriage, endurance in our faith and our walk with Christ. um And unfortunately, there are a lot of, their rep there are repercussions for our sin outside of just, you know, the eternal damnation.
Ben Dover: Just because Christ forgives us does not mean that we don't have to pay prices here on earth. you know There is lost trust. you know if you do If you commit a crime, you're still going go to jail just because Jesus forgives you and loves you doesn't mean you get out of jail free card. And so I think it's one of those things where I think recognizing that, hey, this is my own doing, looking inward again, like we talked about at the end of the last question.
Ben Dover: But that's really all I could think of on it.
Danny Price: that it's really That's really good. Yeah. yeah um
Danny Price: I haven't had an experience like this personally, but I have had moments in my life where I feel like I've let someone down in a smaller way or I've hurt them and things aren't good between me.
Danny Price: And I think as humans, there's this natural inclination to not want to sit in negative emotion or sit with negative feelings towards you. And so we'll do whatever it takes to quickly as possible, get out of that feeling.
Ben Dover: Thank you.
Danny Price: So if you've broken trust with someone, like let's say for an example, you, raise your voice to your your kid to the degree where you just like yelled at them so hard and they like looked at you with with terror in their eye and they're like, I don't trust dad anymore. I don't trust mom anymore.
Danny Price: um We're so quick to go, no, no, no, no. We we instantly want to fix it. Or let's say like I lied to Hannah or I said something or whatever to her that was hurtful and that you know instantly want to get back to how things were and sometimes forgetting that the process of healing for that person takes long and it might, it's not linear. It might take a long time. And so just reminding ourselves that to rebuild trust, because that was in the question to rebuild trust, ah you know, you're rebuilding a wall, you're rebuilding, and however, demolishing the sin or the,
Danny Price: offense was, I mean, it's going to take longer to to rebuild it. You know, you don't just get to wreck someone's life or wreck a relationship and then expect for it to go back just as fast as it was wrecked. It takes a lot longer. So just reminding people, if you're in that situation where you're feeling like you need to rebuild trust,
Danny Price: Be as consistent as possible and as patient as possible and and show that you're in it for the long haul because that's going to show the person that you're trying to be re rebuild it with more than it more than anything else that you're serious about it.
Danny Price: you This is like a common thing, I think, for people who are serial like cheaters. or you know The apology is so heartfelt and so passionate, and and they people make so many big promises and so many like, oh, I'll never do this again. i love you. And it's like you love bomb the person, but what they're not willing to do is sit with the negative, the negative emotion and work hard for the long haul.
Danny Price: Cause that actually shows change. That actually shows like, Hey, I'm, I'm rebuilding it. But again, rebuilding does not happen in a day. That's the, that was like the first thing that i thought of when I, when I saw that. Yeah.
Ben Dover: Yeah, definitely. i thought, yeah, time and continued just humility and doing whatever, know, is necessary in like whatever that person needs from you to help build the trust back.
Ben Dover: like you have to humble yourself and kind of take that because you burned the bridge. Yeah. And you have to help rebuild it. yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: Ladies, I have a question kind of specifically on this one, because I think um for men, right, if we've failed as our role ah as a leader, I think time, you can't just like jump right back into the leader's seat.
Ben Dover: You you failed at that. But, um you know, at what point you should a should ah a man or like how could a man get back into a spot where – because you're you're trusting him not just to take care of himself.
Danny Price: h
Ben Dover: I mean if you're asking a wife to to rebuild trust but to submit, it's different because I don't have to as the the husband – so put myself under your authority and i think that that's a whole nother level of trust um so yeah maybe specifically any advice to men out there who are who have failed we've all failed um but when we fail i guess and depending on how great we failed um how can how can we start to rebuild that uh and how can we better lead you going forward
Danny Price: Yeah. Hmm. Hmm.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Ben Dover: or yeah, your friends or whoever.
Danny Price: know like if that's I don't know the best answer, but I feel like, at least for me, I would really want to know... like Part of the reason that we can put our faith and trust in a Anna and your husband is that they are going to God and being led by him.
Danny Price: And so I feel like I would just want a lot of assurance that that's where the leading is coming from and that it's not just you and your pride and you're what you want to do, but I'd be like,
Ben Dover: you
Danny Price: I don't know, like seeing what I don't know if that if that's probably each relationship, but I want to like know that you're in the word and praying. And if that means, hey, I don't necessarily really trust that you are doing it on your own.
Danny Price: So I want that to be something we're doing together in the morning. And maybe it's not even that you're like leading me through the Bible, but I want to see your Bible open next to me and that you're praying.
Danny Price: Like, I just feel like I'd want reassurance that like God's leading him and that, and because of that, I can trust really good him.
Ben Dover: I love that.
Danny Price: Great. anne
Ben Dover: Yeah.
Danny Price: You said, you started off with saying that wasn't a great answer. And that was like the great answer.
Ben Dover: That was a really great answer.
Danny Price: That's probably nothing. This is, this is, this is a bad, this is a bad answer, but um proceeds to give all the wisdom.
Ben Dover: Humble brag.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: you have anything to add to that, Humble? Kind of just this, like I said earlier, i just think counsel is really important. And I think I hear a lot of times when there is issues in marriage, I hear husbands not wanting to, not being willing to seek counsel. don't need directions. Yeah. And so, you know, if you're, you know, if you're the one at fault,
Ben Dover: I just think you should humble yourself and be there and do what your wife needs at that time. And a lot of the time, you ah for a lot of things, you need third party. You need more than just you know your mom or... you know you need Sometimes you need a professional. Yeah. No, that's really good. I think, you know you're both saying very similar things, but I think like both under authority from God, but under authority from like other men and having, whether it's shepherds or, and not just like peers that you are seeking counsel from, like yeah your buddies, but like actual men that you are submitting to. yeah
Danny Price: It's really good.
Ben Dover: I like to say a man in authority, but also a man under authority. Mm-hmm.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah. The thought came to me, like, um you know, my my thought, like, for Jenny, you know, she's our only daughter right now. But just thinking about, like, i want and want a man for her that can lead himself.
Danny Price: Because then that shows me that he can lead her. And so if he's if he's not even willing to lead himself, or like you just mentioned, like, getting up and reading the Bible. Like, if you can't even lead yourself, how can I trust you to lead my daughter? And just thinking about that for husbands.
Ben Dover: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Danny Price: Like, we, as husbands, so quickly want to... respect my woman i'm gonna you know and just have this unhealthy like i deserve this when it's like man i thought you can't even lead yourself um mean you these are this is one of god's daughters like oh good grief like you gotta be careful there um you know first take ownership and then you know then be able to lead lead your wife so um this next question is also for hannah and morgan um just i just wanted to hear more of your opinion on this um because Shane kind of touched briefly on this and I've heard him say this before, but I'm going to read the question.
Danny Price: This is my question. What would be some practical and biblical things husbands should do to love their wives? As Shane has said in the message in other times, husbands are very willing to die, you know, be shot for their wives, but they're not, they're not willing to live and to sacrifice for their wives.
Ben Dover: um
Danny Price: What's, what are some things that they can do? Some practical things that would show that, that that I'm willing to live and sacrifice and love you.
Danny Price: Morgan, you want to go first?
Ben Dover: sure Um, i think it's really important that, and that's another way I think that women love to lead. i feel like women love to lead in the church aspect You know, I think Shane's talked about that before, where he feels like a lot of churches are feminized. They're geared towards women and it's really easy for women to connect and things. So then it just makes it where, you know, the woman knows is very connected in the church and she wants to be involved in all the activities and things like that.
Ben Dover: And I think it's really important um as a husband to set like the spiritual tone for the house. And um I think praying
Danny Price: Hmm.
Ben Dover: over your family and over your wife and stuff is really important. And, um, I mean, we had, we just like in the last couple years have really started praying together. Um, that wasn't something we'd done our whole marriage.
Ben Dover: And I definitely think it's created like a closeness. yeah um And then, you know, as cheesy it as as it is, the love languages. I'm like, you got to know your spouse and how they want to be loved um because, you know, you can clean all day long, but if she, you know, just wants you to bring her own flowers, you're just doing all that for nothing.
Danny Price: I heard you say don't clean. Is that right, Morgan?
Ben Dover: ah Yeah, specifically.
Danny Price: Specifically, David, she said...
Ben Dover: I'm glad we got the same message.
Danny Price: got
Ben Dover: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah, I was going to say something really similar to that last point, but pretty much I think it never hurts to just pretty much ask, like, how can I serve you today? or Because I think that will she'll express that love language and it could be different that day. Like, wow, a break would be great. Or, yeah, if you could clean this one toilet. Or... Or, yeah, pick up groceries from the store. It could be so different every day. and But, um yeah, asking that question, i mean, even just once a week or something. or
Danny Price: But I feel like I also just think, and that goes both ways, I feel like, for women with men, too. But and just noticing things and appreciating it and saying, like,
Danny Price: hey, thanks for all your you know all the work you did today on the house, or you know i know it's not easy being home to kids, or just, and we feel like any kind of I see you you know comment is always really loving. But um yeah, I think, yeah, knowing the love languages and what they want and need is really goes a long way.
Danny Price: And maybe I don't want to frame this question with like the presupposition maybe i could just ask you guys this too. Obviously I think you guys would both say it's important to have like your husband be like, like protect you and like you want to feel safe. Um,
Danny Price: But is this like the right framing of the question? Do you think a lot of guys are like willing to quote unquote die for their wife? Is that, do you think, I feel like that's accurate? And is that, is that comforting to you? But you, would you say that there needs to be more than just that? yeah Is that what I'm, because that's what I was getting at with question, but i I kind of put words in your mouth and made you answer it from my perspective. i just want to make sure I'm not like framing that wrong.
Danny Price: Yeah, I definitely feel like, I feel like that can be kind of a perspective where they're like, I would, I'll die for you. I'm protecting you I'm going to work for him, providing for you, you know, and you're like, that's all great. But like, i don't even feel like you see me or like, do we, are we connected or, you know, and I feel like, but I'm, I mean, it's, it's our great things and that's what he's, you know, they are, your husband's still called to provide and protect. And that's amazing. But I feel like when it's saying love your wives, that's not necessarily the way women see that.
Danny Price: I feel like we're like, well, that's nice.
Ben Dover: Yeah, I think, I mean, obviously, Jesus is the number one example of love. He is love.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
Ben Dover: So I'm like, I do think that sometimes... A guy will be like, I'm, you know, I'm doing, I am providing and I'm, I'm protecting and all these things. And like, that's it. Like, that's good enough.
Ben Dover: Right. But it's like Jesus died on the cross and he also like got down and like washed the disciples feet and he sat with them and he ate with them.
Danny Price: um
Ben Dover: And, you know, was very relational thing. It wasn't just like, well, I did that. yeah I love you. Ephesians talks about, like I think a better description of husbands love your wives is laid out in Ephesians. um And just that, like, because it says christ love your wives as Christ loved the church and and laid his life down for her. or for the church, right? And so I think it's more, and we get caught up in that lay down the life part and we kind of forget, hey he he lived, walked, breathed. He had to live the perfect life before he went to the cross. And and yeah, it can be really easy to just,
Ben Dover: miss what it's all about as a husband. And I think we were actually talking about this a little bit today with my daughters and just about what that means to love like Jesus loves the church and that sacrificial love. And we talked about how like, you know, in our budget, mom gets more spending money than dad.
Ben Dover: And, you know, when we look at like, mean, like everything, mom should be getting, you know, the the car upgrade first.
Danny Price: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
Ben Dover: Mom should be getting taken care of first. And, you know, and you should, as a husband, sacrifice your time, your efforts, your talents, your money. Like you should be serving your wife above all else.
Ben Dover: And if you're not, I think you're falling short of your calling because we're called a lover. Like Christ loved the church and he lived 100% for that. for us as as the members he he gave his life right and so man I'm just kind of really hard on it because I think there's as men I know we always fall short of it but the the constant strive to be just loving more deeply and more um more passionately and I think I love what you guys said about like checking in with your wife and how she wants to be loved is so so important
Danny Price: No, it's really good. Good answers, guys. That was great. um I also realized, and as I'm writing this question or reading this question that I wrote, not at all am I saying that it's bad to be willing to die for your wife.
Danny Price: And I think that there is an element. it's I think it's a lot less common
Ben Dover: Yeah, that's good point.
Danny Price: Um, but it, I think, it I think it, it does, it does happen where you have guys who are incredibly in touch with their emotions. and Not that there's anything wrong with that, but they're incredibly in touch with their emotions and they could sit and gaze into their wives' eyes all day long and tell them how beautiful they are and all these things um but then if they were walking on the sidewalk and a guy came up to her and started saying, like yelling at her or something, like he wouldn't step in front and he wouldn't, or he wouldn't, you know, whatever.
Ben Dover: Hmm.
Danny Price: um i think it's just important to realize, like, I'm not saying, I want to be clear, like, I'm not saying it's bad to do that. And if you're a guy that your natural inclination is more pass passive and soft-spoken and,
Danny Price: emotion. mean, that's a great gift that God's given you, but also there is a role that you have to fill. And part of that is being a protector. And you see that throughout scripture. You see that with the way that, I mean, just the way that Christ protects his, his, um but his temple, when he, when Jesus he literally goes and throws everyone out, he's not throwing everyone out because he doesn't like pigeons and people, you know, doing marketplace. He doesn't like it because they've,
Danny Price: they're, they're ruining in his church. And so that shows his care and his devotion, his protection over his church, his bride, right? So we should have that same care and protection over our bride. Um, so just, I'm not saying that you all have to be, you know, ah masters at jujitsu or whatever, but if,
Danny Price: The guy, yeah, that's just an example. If a guy starts yelling at your wife while you're walking down the street, if you're not the one that goes, I'm terrified to death, and I'm normally a passive guy, but going step in front because that's what God calls me to do, then that's something you think about.
Danny Price: And I would you know urge you to go to scripture with that.
Ben Dover: We are absolutely called to be bold, for sure.
Danny Price: So I just wanted to point that out. Yes. um Next question. This is also one that I wrote. Don't worry, guys. We're getting towards the end. don't Don't fret. Yeah.
Danny Price: What would a single, seven, number seven.
Ben Dover: Which question are we on? Okay, gotcha, sorry.
Danny Price: um What would a single person take away from this conversation? Because we spend a lot of time talking about marriage. And how does this change the way that a single person would approach dating or you know trying to find a spouse? Does anyone want to jump um and try to tackle that?
Danny Price: what What is the message for a single people here?
Ben Dover: You have something? You tell. you're looking at me now.
Danny Price: Morgan speak Morgan speaker morgan speaker your wisdom.
Ben Dover: I... um
Ben Dover: um i I mean, again, it's just back to the audience of one. Um, I mean, cause maybe your intentions are not to get married. You know, maybe you believe that God's calling you to be single.
Ben Dover: Um, but you know, you're still having to submit to obviously God, but you're going to have other areas in your life that you're going to need to submit.
Danny Price: and
Ben Dover: Um, so it doesn't really matter if you're like in a relationship or not. Um,
Ben Dover: And I just think it really, the right word? Like it really just emphasizes the importance of looking for a spouse that knows the Lord.
Ben Dover: I mean, because... I'm how they won't know what love is if they don't know God and they don't know his love for you. they just, you know, they're never gonna hit the mark. I mean, we're never going to hit the mark, I guess, but they don't know where the mark is.
Danny Price: There you go.
Ben Dover: Well, I've heard that analogy of a triangle, right, where you're um two different sides of a triangle on track to the the point, and that point being God, right?
Danny Price: That's good.
Danny Price: That's good.
Ben Dover: And as a husband and wife, we're always going separated and apart because we have differences. we have We're human. We have heirs. But we if we're both leaning and into growing towards Christ, that keeps us...
Ben Dover: pointed it in the same direction together and on common ground. And if you don't have that common ground. and we're missing Yeah. And I think, you know, it's and important to say because maybe you um maybe you got married and you weren't a believer at the time, like it doesn't matter.
Ben Dover: it doesn't change. Your role doesn't change. Um, depending on who you married, you have to submit to God and you have to submit, you know, to your spouse, regardless, it's just gonna, who you pick to marry is just gonna make it easier, more difficult to do so.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: Um, but the role doesn't change. The calling is the same.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: Yeah.
Danny Price: That's really good. Hannah, you got anything? Well, I would just, yeah, I feel like at the conference we just went to, i liked one of the points they made was just a reminder for single people two um to be trying to become the person that, you know, that someone would be looking for.
Danny Price: So I guess to become the person you're trying to attract kind of thing, which I feel like probably single people hear that a lot. So, but just a reminder that, yeah, like, you know, as a man, like, you know, you would want somebody that's looking for somebody who is in the word daily.
Danny Price: And I mean, as a woman too, and praying and seeking the Lord. And so are you doing those things or does it get put on the back burner a lot or, and stewarding your finances and, um there's just a lot of little things that I feel like sometimes and I i didn't have a long single life but even I feel like it it was easy to just be like yeah I'll deal with that when I'm married like that's when I'll start figuring that stuff out and you know it's like no the time is now and it'll make yeah marriage so much uh of an easier transition and more fruitful and um yeah I just um yeah lost my train thought there that was good that was good that was good
Ben Dover: Oh
Ben Dover: well I was thinking, Hannah, when you're saying that, that, yeah, we do need to know, like, what, what is our role in a marriage going to look like? if We're single, we we should be looking to be a you know, what does a godly husband call me to be?
Ben Dover: am I filling that role in my other areas of life? Am I being a provider, right? Like, can I provide for a wife? That's an important question to ask if you're a man looking for a wife.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: Um, you know, and I think the, the other thing though, that I would add is also the Bible lays out very clearly what a godly spouse looks like.
Danny Price: Yeah,
Ben Dover: And so if you don't go into the word and know, Hey, this is what a godly husband looks like. and you're looking for a godly husband. or you say you're looking for a godly husband, I should say, you know, you, you might be finding something that's missing the mark or, and obviously, right.
Ben Dover: Again, caveat that with nobody hits the mark, but if you don't know what a godly husband should look like, you don't know what you're looking for.
Danny Price: yeah i'll it
Danny Price: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
Ben Dover: And if you're trying to say, maybe I'm looking for something like an example you had in your life, um, Because that example, whoever was, no matter how great they were, they did have their faults. You should go back to the word and go, God, show me what a godly husband looks like. Let me open my word and see, you know, or show me what a godly wife looks like.
Ben Dover: And then now when you're dating, you know, check those boxes pretty quickly and and move on because dating, the purpose should be, if you if you are in it, is to find a spouse, not to have fun, not to feel good, not to, um you know, go out, right?
Danny Price: Oh. Oh.
Ben Dover: it's It's to find a spouse.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: And so if you're dating someone, it's been a year, year and a half, and there's all these flags and you've asked godly counsel in your life and they've all told you like, ah,
Ben Dover: cut the cord and move on because there might be somebody else out there, but you're wasting your time with something that God has not or blessed and has tried to tell you, move on.
Danny Price: I feel like I genuinely like have such a heart and like can't imagine the struggle of being single and really looking for somebody to marry for that long.
Danny Price: And i I can see the draw in like, oh, but I just like it feels, yeah, it feels so good to be loved. It feels so good to be seen. And but being married, I'm like, you will regret it so much if you marry somebody or settle for somebody who is not what God has for you.
Danny Price: And
Ben Dover: Well, and so many drag it out, right? And I get a little heated on this because I'm thinking of my daughter's getting older and it's making me angry.
Danny Price: the
Ben Dover: um
Danny Price: get heated david get him get him
Ben Dover: But it's just that like, yeah, you you drag you drew drug it out for a year and a half with somebody you knew wasn't right two months in.
Danny Price: so
Ben Dover: And now you're feeling about like I get back out there, dragging it out longer, making the stupid choice longer isn't going to make it better. Right. Like, if you know, you got to get in shape. Eating another donut today isn't going to make it better and say, i'm go get in shape next month. Like start doing what God has called you to do now. Don't wait. And then it comes to finding a spouse. If that's what you're saying your top priority is.
Ben Dover: then you need to be so be very, very intentional about it. You need to pray diligently about it and you need to know what you're seeking and be quick to go yep, that's not it. And and you know ask God, as soon as you start dating someone, you should be in deep prayer of God, is this the person that you would like me to marry? That is going to this is going to fulfill your will and that as a married couple, we are going to better represent your name to the people around us and that we're going to bless others through your holy name.
Danny Price: No, it's really good. Preach. Preach it.
Ben Dover: you
Danny Price: Yeah, no, I would just to echo that and just to talk about a couple, just to finish finish this question out, a couple things. I totally agree for dating.
Danny Price: it's It's been misrepresented in our culture. We live in this culture, you know, maybe you're listening and you totally to disagree with us. and's By the way, that's fine. I'm so glad that you're you' you're listening to us. um ah But maybe you're you know, you've always thought of dating as that's the time to have fun. but and then, then you mean then you'll get serious and find someone. And I think there's enough, you know, science and data, but also just what the Bible says, just about just experimenting or trying to have fun and goofing off and, know,
Danny Price: um you know with your purity and just like not taking it very seriously. um and know a lot of people have been hurt by purity culture, so I'm not getting down into all that. I'm really just trying to talk about the the purpose of dating is to find a spouse. And if you're messing around for for too long, it it really just ruins, I think, your experience of, it doesn't I'm not saying you can't find a spouse, but I think it ruins just some of your enjoyment of being able to find a spouse when you when you when you finally do. So set your standards high.
Danny Price: Find someone that is chasing after God as hard as you are. don't settle for someone that, and ladies, I'll i'll say this and I gotta to be careful. I say this, don't settle for someone that has some kind of potential.
Danny Price: I'm not saying that guys that have, yeah, don't, I'm not saying that potential or like he's, he still needs to work on that area.
Ben Dover: We'll fix them.
Danny Price: He still needs to get, you know, I'm not saying that's, that's bad. I'm just saying if your reason you're justifying staying with a guy is because he has potential to maybe become a good guy. That's not reason enough for you to tie yourself to him for the rest of your life.
Danny Price: I really believe as Christians, you know, we're, we're, we're marrying for life. This isn't marrying you for as long as I want, you know, as long as I want you, or as long as you're attractive, or as long as you make me happy, like you're marrying for life. And so with that being the case, going into it, are you ready to tie yourself to someone that maybe has good potential and hopefully they have good values? Um,
Ben Dover: Mm-hmm.
Danny Price: just again, just like hammering that home, like you're, you're dating to marry You're dating because you want that person potentially for the rest of your life. And therefore I think, you know, like David was saying, I think it can be somewhat of a quicker process. And sometimes we make it of like, yeah, you kind of, after a while you might know. And if you don't know, you know, try to get to that point and ask those, those questions and get through those wrestle through those things so that you do know.
Danny Price: Um, a lot of times I think we ignore red flags, um, again, like Hannah was saying, it's so nice to be loved and wanted, And then you get these like rose colored glasses and you're like, ah this, this person is so great. And you start ignoring those things. And I think, i don't know what, who said this quote, but I've heard it before. I like it. um But when you're wearing rose colored glasses, all red flags just look like other flags.
Danny Price: There's no difference.
Ben Dover: What? is this
Danny Price: You're just like, you just like ignore things. Cause you're like, whatever, like it's no big deal. And you're, you're totally out of it. um Let's see here. There was one other thing I want mention. I I'm totally spaced.
Ben Dover: I was going to say too, because we talked a lot about daughters.
Danny Price: Someone wants to fill in.
Ben Dover: And so I just thought real quick too, like young men, like the Bible tells you that living with a nagging wife is worse than living on a corner of a roof. So like, and there's other things that says about that too.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Ben Dover: um So not just for daughters, but men, be very intentional about who who you're choosing to, um you know, tie your wagon to, to hitch your your life to, be equally yoked with one another.
Ben Dover: and I do think one good caveat there that you mentioned is like, they don't have ah to necessarily be the exact same place in their walk as you. Like you might be more knowledgeable about the Bible.
Ben Dover: But I think the big question is, are they seeking Christ like you are? And, you know, cause like they might be a newer in their faith. They might be further along in their faith. And I don't think we should cast somebody aside because of that.
Ben Dover: I think what we should just do is, you know, say, ah are they seeking the Lord and are they wanting a deeper relationship with Jesus? Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah. I just remembered I was going to say. Sorry. about So I was saying have really high standards. But then at the same time, um know what your non-negotiables are. Just kind of like with faith, like we have primary doctrine, secondary doctrine.
Danny Price: I think with dating, if I could offer my advice, completely unsolicited to all you those of you listening, um have your, to have your, yeah, we're pretty much it right here.
Ben Dover: magician To all of our siblings that are listening our moms. next
Danny Price: This is our viewership. ah um
Ben Dover: Thank you.
Danny Price: But to have primary um things, values, and secondary values. So for example, they're all not going to be, what is the whole thing? Six, five, works in finance, blue eyes, you know, like for a girl, I'm just you know saying, or for a guy, you're know they're all going to be a nurse with brown hair, you know, five, eight, you know, whatever. Yeah.
Danny Price: I'm not saying, you know, you you need to be attracted to the person. I'm not saying that, but I'm saying there's are there are some things where it's like, if he doesn't make $150,000 a year, I don't even want anything to do with him.
Ben Dover: Hmm.
Danny Price: And I think sometimes we can kind of self-select ourselves into these like boxes where it's like, I only am looking for this one kind of person. And you're not open to who the Lord might bring you. and then just another reminder, we talked about this before and Shane mentioned this, i think in one of our last ones, but there is no such thing I don't believe as a soulmate until you get married.
Danny Price: And then that person is, I got to be careful.
Ben Dover: yes
Danny Price: Soulmate kind of sounds, but like, that's the, per that's your person. There's no the one until you marry. And then that, that person is the one. um There are people, there's better and worse decisions. there's people you might work better with and have better chemistry with and whatever, but there is not one person that God has willed for you. God knows who you're going marry because he's, he's outside of time.
Danny Price: but that's different than you stressing about, oh my gosh, is that the right person? Am I the wrong person? I just don't know. i just And like, you just don't tear yourself ah up about that. You choose to love. Love is a choice. You say, i ask the person I'm picking and then guys chase after that girl or girls, you know, cling to that guy. Like that, once you pick your person, that's your person.
Danny Price: um So when you're dating, you know, you're figuring that out. And then once you're married, boom, that's the one. figure that There is no one until then. Is that, that might be a little bit strong.
Ben Dover: Yeah. And i um, something you were saying earlier just made me think, I think, um, women can tend to fall into this more, but don't let, um how long you've been together or decisions that you've made, how far you've gone, any of those things, don't let those, um, keep you in a relationship that God doesn't want you to be in.
Danny Price: Mm.
Ben Dover: Um, my dad used to tell all of us girls, I have two other sisters. Um, that like literally on our wedding day was like, Hey, it's not too late.
Ben Dover: Like if you, you know, he liked David, he approved, Hey, give you, he he gave you his blessing. He loves you. Um, but he just always wanted us to know because he knew how serious marriage is and that commitment is that, you know, it doesn't matter what you've done.
Danny Price: Mm.
Ben Dover: You know, this is the biggest, one of the biggest decisions you're going to make in your life. So it's not too late. Mm-hmm.
Danny Price: Yeah. And if you have made mistakes or you've like lived together or anything, like you, you're not ruined because of that. So don't let that guilt or that shame, um And again, this is like kind of the the bad part of purity culture.
Ben Dover: But also don't keep doing it.
Danny Price: I was talking about, I'm not saying, yeah, I'm not saying don't keep doing it, but don't let that shame make you feel like, well, now I have to marry this person because I've already made so many mistakes with them.
Ben Dover: yeah Keep you.
Ben Dover: Yes. Yes.
Danny Price: Like I just, like I can't picture myself with anyone else because i'm I'm ruined. Women, men, you are not ruined because of that. And I just want to, purity culture has kind of, you know, there's some benefits from that, but there's also the drawbacks that have made people feel,
Danny Price: If they've made mistakes, like they're tainted and ruined forever and no one will want them. That's not true. So don't let yourself believe that lie.
Ben Dover: Yeah.
Danny Price: maybe you want you you look like you want to say something yeah that was just a small thing but just um it was just an encouragement that if also you're like a single surrounded by singles and you don't really have any like godly married influence weighing in i feel like you know to kind of maybe seek that or seek a couple in the church when you are dating somebody and have that because i feel like singles tend to be like oh yeah so fun.
Danny Price: just that way no, do it again. How are the singles like?
Ben Dover: Hmm.
Danny Price: But I just feel like you don't have the same perspective of like how, I mean, great, but how hard marriages and to have somebody who really knows what it, you know, what it looks like to really choose somebody every day, weigh in on that, I think is really valuable.
Danny Price: That's good advice. Awesome. All right. One more question and then we're going to close. Um, Colossians 3, it says, fathers should not provoke or exasperate their children.
Danny Price: How should fathers, and I guess mothers too, but this question was more for for fathers. How should fathers think about discipline in light of that command? To not provoke or exasperate their children. Yeah.
Ben Dover: This question was hard because I think second guess myself a lot as a parent.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: Um, and so it's like, and especially because they will ask questions and they'll make, and they're like you're just making it harder. And like, obviously, you know, they're incentivized to get you to punish them less.
Ben Dover: So you have to take that like with a lot of salt, but also like, I just, you don't know.
Danny Price: It's really
Ben Dover: And each kid kid is different. Each stage is different. And so I think that it can be really, really difficult to say, no, my job is still to discipline you. that That doesn't go away. um But you know how do I do this in a way that is um biblical?
Danny Price: yeah
Ben Dover: I think consistency is kind of the one thing I do hear a ton and I completely agree with.
Danny Price: really good
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: But...
Danny Price: That was what we talked about when we talked when we did that episode about parenting. And I think regardless of whether you spank or you don't spank or you know your views on that, I think like what Dave was saying is the consistency is it's so cruel to your kids. And I think it does exasperate and provoke them when you are not you're not the same with the way that you deal with things. Like one day you're happy-go-lucky and anything flies and they can you know whatever whatever that behavior is, they can swear, they can do whatever, and because you're in a good mood, it's fine, but then the day that you're in a bad mood, you just snap on them, and they're confused, and they're exasperated. They're like, why? you know And obviously, we're never going to be perfect parents and just in every single circumstance. you know With siblings, we're starting to get we I can start to see this start to be a thing of like,
Danny Price: you know, you know, siblings trying to play favorites and, you know, they don't always get the same discipline, you know, right now, Jenny's lot younger than Sam. So like, we don't discipline her the same way as Sam and, you know certain areas. And it's like, I can see that starting to come up and I can see, you know, we're not going to be perfect.
Danny Price: And I'm not saying parents need to need to be, or have to be perfect, but to the best of your ability, try to be just and try to be consistent for the, for the sake of the kids.
Ben Dover: Thank you.
Danny Price: And then when I think of provoke, I also think of,
Danny Price: intentionally goading or making fun or mocking your kids for the sake of your own pleasure or for for the sake of just like you're frustrated and that's your way. I think a lot of adults, we do this of, and you'll you'll see like guys, you know, like getting into bar fights or certain things. And like, they they just, they everyone resorts to like name calling and just like the most just disgusting kind of like things, to whatever I can do to hurt you verbally. People just resort to that. And I think sometimes when parents are hurt,
Danny Price: instead of disciplining or instead of things, they'll provoke their kids and make fun of them or mock them.
Ben Dover: Hmm. Hmm.
Danny Price: And i've you know I've seen this, not my parents didn't do this, but I've seen other parents do that to kids that i you know I grew up around and their parents would kind of like make comments about them and stuff. And it's almost like, a verbal slap.
Danny Price: And I think that's a clear way where you're kind of like provoking your kids and you're trying to like hurt them, but you're not actually being clear about that's discipline. And it's like, this is what it is. And I just think we we just have to be as parents. We have to remember that we're the adults in the room.
Danny Price: And we're, we're the ones that are responsible. And we've been given this gift of discipling our kids. Um, And it's not something that we can take lightly and it's not something that we just use to lord it over them with our authority or make them feel, and so you know, you have to because I'm bigger than you and I said so. Well, that there are elements to that that's kind of true. Like, you know, you are bigger than them and you said so. So um just not using that as an end-all be-all and remembering that you're you're cherishing these kids that God's given you to build up and to disciple into God-loving adults.
Danny Price: So if anyone wants to add, oh, I just went on for a while. All right.
Ben Dover: Well, you just said that hurt, like, reminds me of that saying hurt people hurt people. And i think sometimes our kids forget that we are often hurt people. And I think expressing to them that, hey, believe it or not, you you did and can hurt my feelings.
Danny Price: Yes.
Ben Dover: Or i also had a really hard day or I, and I'm sorry, I'm so sorry I took that out on you, but you need to be willing to apologize to your kids and express that, you know, like that, Hey, sometimes like I've seen,
Ben Dover: this is, I think, an issue particularly with men is the vulnerability is very difficult and expressing that you have feelings at all is difficult. and let alone being open about those feelings to a child um can look like a sign of weakness, but man, it is such a sign of strength. And I've i've expressed this before, but I do have to just commend our dad about the way that he he has always been so good at that. And it never made us think that our dad is by any means weak but definitely and an area that we all have, um I think, looked up to him collectively.
Danny Price: that That's really cool. Yeah. Maybe anything you want to add? Um, yeah, I think just to touch on, at least for me, that I'm so not good at this, but just that when you're exasperated yourself to just, you're probably going to exasperate them.
Danny Price: And so, you know, like whatever you can do, if it's possible to take a break, especially kids with like younger kids, I feel like they just have so much emotion. Um, and so you're just like, when you're building up and escalating the situation, then there's,
Danny Price: their feelings are to get more and more. And so I feel like just what you can do to deescalate and stay calm, like you said, remember that you're the adult or yeah, if you need to take a break, but I'm not great at that, but something I feel like I'm convicted of constantly. That was something that my mom was really good at. And my dad too, you know, in a lot of ways that, and he would, you know,
Danny Price: when they got upset, like, they yeah, they yelled at me into certain certain times, but they would a lot of times get quieter and they you could, like, I remember that would make me more pissed off and more mad when I was getting out of control and they got quieter and more in control.
Ben Dover: surface ofness
Danny Price: It just reminded me again, like, oh yeah, that's right. They're they're the they're the boss. And that's a good reason why, like, the person that loses control, the first is usually the one that is trying to grasp for power and grasp grasp for for authority.
Danny Price: So if your reaction is always... in a you know in tussles with your kids to like yell and try to regain authority that's kind of showing that you might not have it um where you're or you're um you've been you've been trained you're you've trained them to respond to you when you make that like power move um and again i don't think there's anything wrong with like you know raising your voice a little bit but yelling at your kids that's kind of what more i'm talking about so which with that i just feel like that reminds me like I feel like so often as parents, we wait and avoid discipline for so long sometimes. And then that's what causes a huge thing. And just like make your power move your first move, you know, just like you're not normally that upset when you're warning them or telling them the first time. Like if you warn them once and then they do it again, you're normally not that frustrated. So use that time to be like, nope, I said no and going to follow through versus like, I just told you not to do that. I just told and then you and keep saying it and then now you're
Danny Price: the 20th time yeah like the first time you respond and that will exasperate them because they have they have this mental they've like built it into their head like they really don't mean what they say and that goes back to what david said like with consistency just yeah i mean that's part of that is letting your word mean your word though and being consistent the first time not the 20th time you're like i'm for real now it's a good thing our kids are really perfect and never misbehave and
Ben Dover: you
Ben Dover: Well, yeah.
Danny Price: This is all like in theory, like we've never actually the discipline before. Yeah, original
Ben Dover: Right. great
Ben Dover: Well, one quick thought that I had on that is just that also check and see like if you can't read what's going on their kid's heart. Because I think there's times where I have been disciplining, not realizing that there was a bigger issue at hand, that this was because of like embarrassment or hurt or, um, you know, it's just some sort of other issue. And that is probably some of the times that I have felt the most horrible as a father is because I just was not looking at, especially with my daughter, my oldest daughter at seven. Um, like, Oh,
Ben Dover: this was something completely different. This had nothing to do with the current situation.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Ben Dover: And so sometimes taking a step back and that doesn't remove her from the consequence of like, Hey, no, I told you to go do something, but, you didn't listen, but at the same time, like, I think it does change the circumstances bit.
Ben Dover: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah. that's That's really good. Awesome.
Ben Dover: Yeah. Um, just one quick thing. I, um, on the topic of like exasperating, I feel like personally I fall into, um, just keep, I continue to, um,
Ben Dover: prod and poke and really drive in my point because I want to see that they are sorry and that they understand.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Ben Dover: Um, and well, while they should be, you know, while they should apologize and, you know, reconcile, um, I think sometimes I take it upon myself to want to like get that change out of them when that's not my job.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Ben Dover: Um, And so I was just thinking that's a way that I exasperate my own children. Um, and you know, I should just be giving that to God, then praying that he can change their hearts and that. And I don't have the power to do that.
Ben Dover: yeah He's like looking at us saying, you haven't changed in 30 years. Are we talking about l like, yeah,
Danny Price: oh that's that's funny that's funny awesome um well that was the end of the question so hopefully you guys know it's if you're still here this is our longest episode this is our longest episode um yeah if you made it to the end awesome um yeah hopefully this was fun for you guys again just a more of a round table like we just had we had a great time i think just discussing this stuff so this was this this was fun um
Ben Dover: Do you think we still have any listeners? Yeah. see he smileed
Ben Dover: Quick plug, if you enjoy these conversations, right, just a reminder that tomorrow night or, well, depending on when you release this, Danny, Wednesday night is the discussions at the church midweek.
Danny Price: wednesday
Ben Dover: Highly encourage you guys to to ah come and attend. If you have thoughts on the questions that we had or want to add to it and want to talk to us at church too, I think we're all open to that.
Ben Dover: And then finally, men in particular, Friday morning Zoom, we we go through a lot of these same questions on the sermon the week prior.
Danny Price: yep
Ben Dover: So if you have more to add or you want to have a discussion about it, we'd love to have you join us.
Danny Price: Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that was, lot I was going to say that. it was just, if you heard us say something that you really agree with or slightly disagree or want to fight, um we'd all love the talk we'd all that all have to talk about that.
Ben Dover: Oh, cool.
Danny Price: I think we all tried our best, you know, to go to scripture and, know, speak, speak from that and not speak just from our opinions about things, but our, you know, our opinions and stuff do seep in. So just, you know, we'd love to talk to you if you're curious or want clarification on things. And again, listeners, we got a bunch of questions this week. So so that was fun.
Danny Price: um So thanks for sending those in. And then I've already, I had two people reach out to me about sending in questions in the future. So I'm excited about that. But yeah, thanks for listening guys. Appreciate you all.
Danny Price: um Next week. Shane is going to be out of town. going to be in Honduras with Tanya. you know They took a mission trip to Honduras and they're going be gone. So Tony is teaching on Sunday.
Danny Price: So I think I'm either going do it with him or I'm going to wait and do it with Shane when he gets back. But most likely it'll probably just be with Tony. We'll just do kind of like our normal rhythm of you know just interviewing whoever gave the sermon.
Danny Price: I'll do it with Tony sometime next week.
Ben Dover: Love it.
Danny Price: So yeah, look forward to that. And we will see you guys next week. Thanks. Bye-bye.
