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Witch History! | SPOOKTOBER | #JY S3E15
119 Plays1 year ago
This week we dive into the history of witch trials and the crazy tests that people would use to "prove" that these innocent men, women, and children were witches, or working with the devil. This is going to be part 1 of our witchy episodes, so stay tuned for part 2 where we will talk more about the witch trials that happened in America, and of course, the Salem witch trials!
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Transcript
Introduction & Sponsorship
00:00:00
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00:01:24
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Hello, everybody. Hello. My name is Shannon.
Host Introductions & Listener Appreciation
00:01:27
Speaker
I'm Alyssa. I was waiting. I was waiting for the answer. Oh, yes. You don't need one. I had one the other day. I thought of it and I can't remember what it was. There you go. That's it.
00:01:41
Speaker
I've already ranted for an hour and 13 minutes to Shannon about my day. So we're ready to get into things. Yeah. And in case you didn't know, you're listening to hashtag judging you. Welcome back to chaos. Yes.
00:01:57
Speaker
That's what we're here for. I have no idea what this energy is right now. I'm also like starting to overheat myself. Are you getting warm? I like it. Okay, that's good. You're wearing a hoodie. I am wearing a hoodie, so. Okay, so first off before we even get into stuff.
00:02:12
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I wanted to just take a minute to say thank you to everybody who listens and everybody who's been buying stuff with our codes because it makes my heart so heavy, especially when fuckwads on TikTok make stupid comments.
00:02:31
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There was a guy that caught like, it was like seven comments. Just to himself, like he's not even talking to, like we are not responding to
Handling Negative Feedback
00:02:40
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him. I did respond once. Oh, did you? Okay. What'd you say? Well, cause he was like, obviously your podcast isn't working. And I said, it's working just fine. Thanks. And then that was all I said. And he was like, no, cause you don't have any followers and any listeners and blah, blah, blah. And he said that we had the faces for podcast and that our voices were annoying. And I was like, man, well, fuck you. You don't have to be here.
00:02:59
Speaker
I know I'm annoying. That's why we're doing the podcast. Exactly. We have our followers and you don't need to be one, so fuck off. And our followers are fucking awesome. Yes, they are. I'll like 12 of them. Whoever you are in Germany. Right? Literally, that's who we make it for. Not this.
00:03:15
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Idiot not this idiot so which I'm convinced he's the one that wrote Humpty Dumpty and that's why he was pissed cuz he was commenting on Humpty Dumpty He was yeah, that's probably what it so Scotty. Yeah, fuck you Scotty with two and he had like an E in there something Scotty two T's EY fuck off Scotty two T's EY it's not even a real name right Scotty bitch
00:03:38
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but yeah so just thank you and if you enjoy listening share share our stuff with people that you think would also enjoy listening and you can skip through our commercials and our ads but like use the promo code yeah yeah use the promo codes so liquid ivy is delicious and i am convinced so i got sick a couple weeks ago and tony started to get sick but he was like i just feel so dehydrated and i was like we have liquid
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would I be and so I gave him some and he never got as sick as I was so for what that's worth go that's that yeah and I really like wild also so I need to buy mine I need I haven't yet I was waiting to get paid and I got paid so yeah yeah so just put it out there also I just have to say I feel really bad too because like Wendy will text me all the time and be like oh this and this of this episode and I was like which episode
00:04:30
Speaker
I feel so bad. Cause she's like, she's like, oh my gosh, I have a theory about this. And I'm like, what? Explain it. She'll be like of this one. I'm like, Oh yeah. What is there?
00:04:43
Speaker
I love that. But I just, I think it's real funny because she'll message me all the time and be like, oh my gosh, this guy's an asshole. And I'm like, which what? And I feel really bad because all of the movies that I watch after I tell them to you and to our viewers, they get dumped. They're gone. Like, that's fair. Which makes me want to do a quiz on like episodes even more. I know I need to. I've been wanting to, but it would take a lot to compile that. Yeah.
00:05:11
Speaker
But that's how my brother and my sister-in-law are. They'll always be like, oh my gosh, this episode. I'm like, uh, you know. Thank you. Yes. Oh, she, yeah. She was talking about, um, the true crime case that you did, Basa and- Teresita. Teresita. Thank you. And, uh, she, cause she asked like, how did somebody who was charged with this, like be allowed to work in the hospital again? But we had just talked about Debbie and I was like, oh, she's a nurse. And I was like, what?
00:05:36
Speaker
What do you mean? And she's like, no, Teresita. And I was like, oh, yes, Teresita. Yes, thank you. That's exactly what we said. How was he in the hospital? But I just, I was like, Debbie, yeah, Debbie. And like, cause that was the one I had just like in my head. That's when I was thinking up. So like.
00:05:52
Speaker
She's a nurse, makes sense. Yeah, she's a nurse. Yeah, I like talking to people who want to talk about it. Yeah, I love it. It's fun. Especially because like other people will say something that I'm like, I didn't even think of that. I didn't even think of that. I was at Zach's little sister's baby shower the other day. And of course,
00:06:08
Speaker
I was talking to his older sister, Jamie, and we, of course, started talking about true crime because we both love it. And his little sister, Gabby, was talking to us. And we mentioned something about true crime. And like three of these older ladies, like his mom's age, right, turned around and they were like, true crime.
00:06:28
Speaker
They all came over and like, are we just talking about true crime and stuff? And it was just great. That makes me think of just the other day, Tony came up to me right after our last episode came out and he was like, I'm not gonna listen to your podcast this week about the family, about the Sotter children. He was like, they just make
Episode Theme: A Rant
00:06:46
Speaker
me so sad. And I was like, well, you don't have to listen to every episode. And he was like, I listen to every other one, the true crime. And I was like, well, you're not a white bitch. So it makes sense.
00:06:55
Speaker
Anyway, we're 10 minutes into this, sorry. This might be a two-parter. I granted for way too long to Shannon because it was a long day. It's okay. You ready to get into it for real? Yes. You're a good friend, Shannon. Thank you.
00:07:11
Speaker
Okay, so, I'm just, maybe this is a rant episode. She had to put a lot of work on for this. Whatever I have. Oops, sorry. I'm gonna die. Okay, okay.
00:07:27
Speaker
Okay, are we good? Yes. You got it all out. Yeah, probably not. Probably not, but we're good. We got this. Not to bring up any trauma. Oh. But yesterday, you told me what you were being for Halloween. Yes. And I was real excited because there was some irony to the story. Oh, okay. So do you want to tell the people what you were being for Halloween? Yes, I was a... Well, I guess I was dressed up like...
00:07:52
Speaker
Like a Puritan. Like a Puritan, but not if I'm not, not anything against Puritans. It's just, I was going as someone dressed up burning at the stake. So like, you know, like a witch at the stake, but I'm like, I was dressed as like a Puritan because they were all, you know, like being accused and whatnot. And so yeah, I was just burning at the stake and I thought it was fun. So yeah. And today's episode is about witch history. So I've been wanting to talk about like Salem and all that fun stuff for a long time. I'm excited.
Witch History: Pre-Salem Events
00:08:20
Speaker
But,
00:08:21
Speaker
First, we're gonna talk about pre-Salem. Because everybody talks about Salem. Are we talking about the TV show? No. No? You don't remember watching? We watched Salem. We watched some of it. We watched some of it. There was two seasons and then it ended horribly. I vaguely remember it.
00:08:38
Speaker
Was it the greatest show of all time? No. It was fun. It was fun. Yeah. Was it the hot guy from a walk to remember? Yeah. Maybe. Maybe. I forgot about that. Yeah. Was it the hot chick from, I don't know what, cause she's just hot. Yeah, she's hot. Yeah. Yeah. But no, we're talking about actual witch history. Not any shows. Not any shows. Yes.
00:08:55
Speaker
So this is going to kind of be like, not a full history obviously, but just like witch hunts and things like that leading up to Salem at first. I have information of after Salem times too. So the events in Salem didn't even start until like the 1600s, right? And there was a long history of trials and witch hunts before that.
00:09:19
Speaker
Many witch hunts took place in European countries, long before anything happened in America, obviously, because there's a lot of history before America, even though we don't believe that.
00:09:30
Speaker
And what really gets me, I read this quote and it just like hit me in a different way. The hunts were efforts to identify witches rather than the pursuits of individuals who were already thought of as witches. So it wasn't like, you're doing weird shit. We're going to call you out. It was like, you might be one. We're going to make you one. You know what I mean? Like, that's the yucky part of it is that most of it was completely unwarranted.
00:09:58
Speaker
And they were all just calling each other out for fuck, like just because they're bitches and they're bored. Yeah, exactly. Bored. 100%. Yeah. They were like, oh, also she's a witch. I saw her yesterday. She winked at my husband last week. She picked up a rocker. So she's obviously, yeah. She's actually engaged to the guy that I want to be engaged to. And I don't like that. So she's a witch. Burn her. Burn her.
00:10:20
Speaker
which were considered to be followers of Satan who had traded their souls for his assistance. It was believed that they employed demons to accomplish magical deeds, that they changed from human to animal form or from one human to another, which would be dope as hell, that animals acted as their familiar spirits, and that they rode through the air at night to secret meetings and orgies.
00:10:43
Speaker
Like, it's just we live in their life. But before we get into like the actual history of everything, I wanted to go over a few of the witch tests that I came across. And I've heard of a few of these, but some of them I was just like, what the actual fuck are we doing? So up first was the swimming test.
00:11:04
Speaker
So as part of the infamous swimming test, accused witches were dragged to the nearest body of water, stripped to their undergarments, bound and then tossed in to see if they would sink or float. Since witches were believed to have spurned the sacrament of baptism, it was thought the water would reject their bodies and prevent them from submerging. According to this logic, an innocent person would sink like a stone, but a witch would simply bob on the surface. So chubby girls.
00:11:37
Speaker
The victim would typically have a rope tied around their waist so they could be pulled from the water if they sank, but it wasn't unusual for accidental drownings to occur. Because nobody knew how to swim. And no one gave a shit. Yeah. Like, even if you're innocent. Like, yeah. Which swimming derived from the trial by water, an ancient practice where suspected criminals and sorcerers were thrown into rushing rivers to allow a higher power to decide their fate?
00:12:05
Speaker
The custom was banned in many European countries in the Middle Ages only to re-emerge in the 17th century as a witch experiment, and it persisted in some locales well into the 18th century. For example, in 1710, the swimming test was used as evidence against a Hungarian woman named Dorko Boda, who was later beaten and burned at the stake as a witch.
00:12:28
Speaker
because she floated. Poor woman. Right. So you're telling me that any single person that ever got in the water was to be assumed? If you float. I guess. I guess. Also, I love how they call it the swimming test. Yeah. Not like the floating. Yeah. You're not swimming. You're not swimming. You're tied up and naked. I don't know.
00:12:51
Speaker
It's crazy. Okay, the next one is the prayer test.
Witch Trials: Tests and Accusations
00:12:55
Speaker
Okay. Some believe that witches were incapable of speaking scripture aloud, so accused sorcerers were made to recite selections from the Bible, usually the Lord's Prayer, without making mistakes or omissions.
00:13:07
Speaker
While it may have simply been a sign that the suspected witch was illiterate or nervous, me, I'd be like, bleh. Any errors reviewed as proof that the speaker was in league with the devil. The twisted test of public speaking ability was commonly used. Even though I was able to say all of it. Nope.
00:13:25
Speaker
Just because I was like, fuck. Oh, let's hope someone was a dyslexic. From memory. Yeah. Oh, from memory. And you're not reading it. Yeah. From memory. OK, I guess I'm not a Protestant or a Puritan or whatever. You're supposed to have that shit memory. I guess, yeah, probably because I don't know. I don't see that name and the victim came. I thought that was... Is it not the... Though I walk through the shadow of death, I shall fear it. Is that? Which one? Hang on. I don't know. I'm not. I don't know. What's the Lord's Prayer?
00:13:54
Speaker
the lord's prayer often known by its insipid our father our father who art in heaven right how would be thy name oh yeah which is mine then i think yours is the one people say like when they're about to die oh but it makes me think oh i'm mormon so i'm not a christian we don't need to get into that um but it makes me think well we worship christ so we're technically christians that's the difference okay yeah
00:14:21
Speaker
You know the Basement Yard podcast? No. You do. It's the two guys, Joey and... Oh, those guys. Yeah, those guys. Okay. There's one where they talk about the Lord's Prayer. And what's... I don't remember the other guy's name. Frank or something? Frankie. Okay. Frank. Frank. Frank? Frankie? Frankie? I don't know. Frankie and Joey? That's the most Italian New York bullshit I've ever heard in my life.
00:14:45
Speaker
anyway they're talking about it and Frankie says Lord who does art in heaven and Joey's like no he's not doing art my friend that's funny
00:15:01
Speaker
uh anyway okay the twisted test of public speaking ability was commonly used as hard evidence in witch trials i'm the worst fucking person because they would be like start reciting the lord's prayer and i would be over here reciting the um the boondock saints you know latin yeah yeah you'd be a witch yeah
00:15:21
Speaker
In 1712, it was applied in the case of Jane Wenham, an accused witch who supposedly struggled to speak the words, forgive us our trespasses and lead us not into temptation during her interrogation.
00:15:37
Speaker
Still, even a successful prayer test didn't guarantee an acquittal. During the Salem Witch Trials, the accused sorcerer, George Burroughs, flawlessly recited the prayer from the gallows just before his execution. The performance was dismissed as a devil's trick, and the hanging proceeded as planned.
00:15:58
Speaker
So they do not give a fuck. Yeah, they give a fuck. No. They just wanted to kill people publicly. Okay. Like what? Okay. Number three was- That's what it was. It was just mass hysteria back then. Like it's- For real. Yeah. Like I just- Legitimately. Mm-hmm. People were writing books about it. Mm-hmm. And everyone was like, yeah, that sounds good. Yeah. Let's do that. Let's do it. Yeah. Like how far away from we are we from that in society though?
00:16:23
Speaker
You know what I mean? Very close. I agree. Very close. I agree. There's like this whole thing. Terrifying. I won't talk about it. We shouldn't talk about it on a podcast. Oh, this is views on things. Oh, I don't want to hear that. I just want to hear it talk about werewolves and stuff. Yeah.
00:16:39
Speaker
so yeah okay number three is the touch test okay is it's all bullshit okay um the touch test worked on the idea that victims of sorcery would have a special reaction to physical contact with their evil doer which I love that word their evil doer evil doer okay the victim all right in cases where a possessed person fell into spells or fits the suspected which would be brought into the room and asked to lay a hand on them a non-reaction is
00:17:09
Speaker
signaled innocence, but if the victim came out of their fit, it was seen as proof that the suspect had placed them under the spell." So if you fucking hate anybody, you could claim anybody as a witch. Like, it's ridiculous.
00:17:26
Speaker
Touch tests played a famous part in the 1662 trial of Rose Cullender and Amy Denny, two elderly English women charged with bewitching a pair of young girls. The children had been suffering from fits that left their fists clenched so tightly that even a strong man could not pry their fingers apart. Weak. True. Hit the gym, bro. Right? Come on. Do you even lift? Apparently not.
00:17:54
Speaker
But early tests showed that they easily opened whenever Cullender or Denny touched them. To ensure the reaction was genuine, judges had the children blindfolded and touched by other members of the court. The girls unclenched their fists anyway, which suggested they were faking. But even this was not enough to prove the women's innocence. Cullender and Denny were both later hanged as witches.
00:18:19
Speaker
No. Like what the fuck? People are stupid. People are so stupid and evil and evil. Yeah, pretty much all that. Yeah, fucking churches, man. Okay, the next one makes zero sense to me and it's fucking weird. Witch cakes. The witch cake was a supernatural dessert used to identify suspected evil doers.
00:18:47
Speaker
In cases of mysterious illness or possession, witch hunters would take a sample of the victim's urine, mix it with rye meal and ashes, and bake it into a cake. This stomach-turning concoction was then fed to a dog, the familiars, or animal helpers of witches, in the hope that the beast would fall under its spell and reveal the name of the guilty sorcerer.
00:19:13
Speaker
Did this ever work for anybody? I doubt that. Also, hold on. Okay, you're telling me. Hold on. You're taking urine, rye meal, and ashes. You're mixing them together. Into a cake. Into a cake. That's witchcraft. That is witchcraft. That's witchcraft. You're taking ingredients. You're skipping ahead. Sorry, okay. Go ahead. Sorry.
00:19:37
Speaker
How dare you? During the hysteria that preceded the Salem witch trials, the slave Tituba famously helped prepare a witch cake to identify the person responsible for bewitching young Betty Parris and others. The brew failed to work and Tituba's supposed knowledge of spells and folk remedies were later used as evidence against her when she was accused of being a witch.
00:20:02
Speaker
Cause she did like voodoo shit for real life. She was also in Salem. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I mean the person they, anyway. Yeah. But yeah, it's just for them to say, yeah, we're going to do this thing to do this thing. And it's going to work. That's witchcraft. You are all witches. You're trying to like put a spell on the dog essentially. That's witchcraft. You're all witches. Yeah. Okay.
00:20:29
Speaker
Anyone who's like, this is an idea I have, guys, to make us realize there's a witch. That's a witch. That person's a witch. You're a witch. You're lying to everyone. You're the devil's trick. Like, are you kidding me? Somebody was like, hey guys, I think we need to take urine and rye and ashes and feed it to a dog and make it talk. Maybe actually the people who were in charge were the witches and everybody who were sacrificed, who like powered them.
00:20:59
Speaker
I'll take that. I can see that. Absolutely. Number five is witching marks. Oh, I know these ones. Yes. Witch hunters often had their suspects stripped and publicly examined for signs of an unsightly blemish that witches were said to receive upon making their pact with Satan. The devil's marks could supposedly change shape and color and was believed to be numb and insensitive to pain. Prosecutors might also search for the witch's teat.
00:21:27
Speaker
which is an extra nipple. Mm-hmm. That's how they would feed their familiar. Yep. Allegedly used to suckle the witch's helper animals. Yep. In both cases it was easy for even the most minor physical imperfections to be labeled as the work of the devil himself. Oh they would have a heyday. I am covered in little, little, not nips, but like yeah just little, you know,
00:21:49
Speaker
Everywhere. Yeah. Yep. Moles, scars. Yep. Yeah. Who doesn't have them? I have three birthmarks that are not like moles. Yep. So I'd be fucked. Yep. Yeah. I've got so many fucking like, I've got a lot of moles. I've got so many freckles. I've got, yeah, I'm covered in them. Even tattoos, which I thought was interesting.
00:22:09
Speaker
How many people are getting tattooed back? That's what I was thinking. Yeah. But like maybe in different countries. I guess, yeah. Not necessarily just America. So examiners rarely came up empty handed. That's what we would all imagine. Of course, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Because they're making the rules up as they go along. Yeah, which leads me into, in the midst of witch hunts, desperate villagers would sometimes even burn or cut off any offending marks on their bodies, only to have their wounds labeled as proof of a covenant with the devil.
00:22:38
Speaker
there's literally no winning. No, no, yeah, no. Incantations. Also known as charging, the test involved forcing the accused witch to verbally order the devil to let the possessed victim come out of their fit or trance. So it's like touching all over again. Yeah.
00:22:55
Speaker
Other people would also utter the words to act as a control, and judges would then gauge whether the statements had any effect on the victim's condition. Charges were famously used in the 16th century, which trials of Alice Samuel and her husband and daughter who were accused of bewitching five girls from the wealthy Throckmorton family.
00:23:15
Speaker
During the proceedings, judges forced the Samuels to demand the devil release the girls from their spell by stating, As I am a witch, so I charge the devil to let Mistress Throckmorton come out of her fit at this present. Oh, I'm sorry. So I charge the devil to do anything? No, you're not charging him to do shit, okay? I saw him say that.
00:23:39
Speaker
No, you are a witch. You are under his command, right? If it's if it were in this kind of a thought process, I know there's lots of other kind of witches and Wicca and stuff like that. But in this kind of a mindset, I'm sorry, you're telling me that you need to. You want me to tell the devil what to do? No, son, no.
00:24:01
Speaker
No sun. I will not be doing that today, thank you. Yes, as a holy person, I'd be telling the fucking devil what to do. Get the fuck out, sir. Get. Right? Get the fuck out. You do your job, sir. Get out, yeah. Mr. Priest. No, do it. I just. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. I would not be walking up to my boss and telling him to, as I am, your friend as supervisor, Eddie, do this shit. No, are you kidding me? No.
00:24:31
Speaker
It doesn't work. It doesn't work like that! That'd be like you going to like the top owner. Oh yeah! Like calling up Shane and being like, hey, hey, you're gonna fucking do this. And he's gonna, well, you are a witch, so I'm good. I will listen to you. No! Especially to like free them. Yeah. Why would he want to do that? Why would he do that? He's the devil. Yeah.
00:24:51
Speaker
He'd be like, no, I got control of him. They're mine. We're good. We're done. Leave. Fuck off. I have control over you. And now I have control over you. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Also, I just... Yeah, because that's what I'm going to waste my time on is this two-year-old, this 15-year-old person.
00:25:14
Speaker
I'm a witch, and I'm gonna be controlling people. I'm going after the big guns. It's not a gaggle of nine-year-olds. No! What the fuck are they gonna do? No. Other than sit and scream like they already do. Like, no. We don't need that. We don't need that. No. No. No, thanks.
00:25:28
Speaker
But after they said these words, the girls immediately recovered. And the Samuels were found guilty and hanged as witches. I always want to say hanged. Hanged sounds wrong. It does. It's like sneaked. Fuck sneaked. That's not a word. Snuck is the past tense. Thank you very much. The next one is lovely. They were pressed with heavy stones. I heard that? Yeah.
00:25:56
Speaker
I really, the sick side of me, wanted to look up some of the torture that they went through because it fascinates the hell out of me. But I don't know how many people really want to hear about that. But I almost didn't. But it's sad. It's sad. It's hard. It's like true crime. Like this shit really happened. This crazy, like ooblyettes are real. Ah! No!
00:26:22
Speaker
This method was used to manipulate the accused witches into admitting their guilt. The witches in question had a board laid on top of them and their accusers placed heavy rocks on the board until they either confessed or were crushed. There's so many things like this where it's like they were tortured into admission
00:26:42
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah. What else are they gonna fucking say? They're dying. Yeah, they're dying. And you said the only way you're coming out is this is if you tell us that you're a witch. Or who else is a witch? I'm gonna be pointing fingers. If my fingernails are getting fucking wood shoved under them. Except I would be the fucking petty ass bitch and be like, it's you and you're doing this to me. Yeah, but then you just die immediately. But I guess, fuck it at that point. Yeah, fuck it. If I'm gonna die, I'm gonna be a petty ass bitch.
00:27:10
Speaker
It's like, yeah, you're going to be pressed under these fucking heavy ass rocks until I die or say I'm a witch. Guess I'm dying and I'm accusing everyone I can see. You, you, you, and you, and I. Everyone who's putting stones on me is a witch. Oh, yeah.
00:27:26
Speaker
Be like, obviously, they're trying to confuse all of you. That would be me. Be like, they're the evil witches. Check them, because I saw them dancing naked in the moonlight. They're having orange juice. Orange juice. Orange juice everywhere. They invited me and I said no, and that's why.
00:27:45
Speaker
They're mad that I rejected them. I didn't go to their midnight orgy. With the devil and the goats and that I saw that one without Toad and just like, you know, I be saying so much shit. Yeah, we're gonna die anyway, so might as well. Yeah.
00:28:04
Speaker
take everyone out with me oh yeah if i'm gonna lie and say i'm a witch no i'm not gonna say that i'm gonna lie and say everyone else's witch is right fo sho yeah i'm about to die i'ma be i'ma be petty so i'm already petty so might as well amp it up yep um okay the next one yes is having animals in their presence
00:28:28
Speaker
Okay. Don't own a dog. Let me continue. Okay. It's a little different. Okay. I mean, it is that, but it's a little different too. Not only could anyone with a house pet be accused of using those animals as their familiars, but if a rat or even a fly wandered into their cell while they awaited trial, it could be seen as them using dark forces to summon the creature by their side to do their bidding.
00:28:53
Speaker
What's this fly gonna do? What are you gonna do, Mr. Fly, other than annoy the shit out of people? It's familiar. He's gonna go tell the devil. If I'm a witch, can I tell the devil myself already? I'm clearly commanding him to do things. So why can't I as a witch be like, oh, I as a witch command the devil to force this person to open a cell door and let me escape.
00:29:20
Speaker
I don't know. The fucking logic, like the lack of logic. The lack of logic. Yeah. But that's the sad thing. This had to happen for us today to go this kind of logic. This is ridiculous.
Halloween: Myths vs. Reality
00:29:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like I just. Did it though. Did it? No, I mean not to the extent in the slide. We learned from it. We did. Some people. We always learn from history, yes.
00:29:47
Speaker
That's why I get really pissy nowadays when a lot of people are like, oh, we don't let our children celebrate Halloween because it's practicing witchcraft. I'm like, okay, maybe if I was doing all of the things that a witch would do, but no, my child putting on a princess dress and going to get candy.
00:30:08
Speaker
That's just fun. That's just fun. It's not the same things that people used to do back in the day. That's the thing, is it's not the same. Therefore, it's not witchcraft. It's not practicing what you are concerned about over here.
00:30:25
Speaker
Cause if you're that fucking worried, right? Okay. Because Christmas used to be like a pagan holiday and whatnot, Hallabaloo. Don't say that. But we're not practicing paganism anymore. Yeah. So therefore it's not paganism. Yeah. So like. Do it your own way. Do it. Yeah. I just get so frustrated with stuff like that. Cause you want to sit there and be like, well, my children can't, they can't do this and they can't do that because it's Halloween and, and, and I'm like, but we are not doing the same things. Yeah.
00:30:55
Speaker
We're not having rituals and... If you walked outside and asked half the people, why do we put pumpkins outside with candles in them? Oh, because it's tradition. Why is it tradition? Well, I don't know. It's just my parents used to do it. My grandparents used to do it. Nobody fucking knows. Yeah. So many people don't know. Do you want to tell?
00:31:11
Speaker
Oh yeah, it's to keep the spirits away. Yeah, it's to scare the bad spirits that are supposed to come out on all holidays eve. Yep, it's to keep them away from, yeah, it's a warding from your house. That's why everyone wears costumes. Yep, to fool the spirits and stuff, yeah. But I'm sorry, no spirit is fooled, no evil spirit or whatever spirit is fooled by the kid walking around his baby Yoda.
00:31:36
Speaker
you don't know they're not like oh it's one of us that was an alien no they're gonna go what the fuck is that yeah back in my day they used to wear masks made out of gourds no they're not gonna say shit like that like
00:31:50
Speaker
Are you kidding me? No! It's not the same shit. For all those people out there doing your little slips of paper with the Lord's Prayer and your little pennies hot glued to it, fuck off. It's not the same shit anymore. Just turn off your porch light. Just don't. Just don't. We don't want it? Nobody wants it.
00:32:13
Speaker
I don't care. They can be part of your church. They still won't want it. They don't want it. Nobody wants it. No kids want that. If you don't have toys or candy. Also, why is it not okay for me to come get candy today? But if I were to go Christmas caroling at your house, I'm allowed to have candy then. That's different.
00:32:30
Speaker
Why is that? Yeah, you know. Yeah. How is that any different? It's different. Because I'm offering good tidings instead of, hey, give me a candor, I'm gonna do nothing. Yeah. Like. There's no trick or treat. There's no tricks anymore. Yeah. That's all it is. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's nothing going on. Nobody carols anymore either. You know, like.
00:32:49
Speaker
We go to old folks home, we carol there, they don't give a shit, and we leave. Some of them give a shit. Some of them care, yeah. Some of them are happy just to have people visit and stuff, you know? Some of them like the music. But nobody liked my singing, I can promise you that. When you're in a group, it doesn't matter.
00:33:05
Speaker
when I sing as bad as it was sometimes. Oh, shut up. So, yeah. Anyway, sorry, go ahead. You're good. Don't have flies around you is all I'm saying. Apparently, not, you know, in a, in an area, in a, sorry, an era of time where you bathed once. Never. A year. Yeah. Never have flies come around you. Never have rats. I could see if like a black cat. Yeah.
00:33:30
Speaker
comes into your cell like okay. I'm sorry a rat scurries in and comes up to you and is like right like you know but like but like I'm sorry a rat scurries past you and they're gonna go it's a fucking side of the devil. I mean yeah that's exactly what I just.
00:33:49
Speaker
That's what it is. Oh wait, I'm gonna come to your house, check your pantry, sir. Right. See if you got rats up in your pantry, sir. Cause they're there. Sir. Yeah. Fuck off. That's ridiculous.
00:34:07
Speaker
Okay, so number next. Is that my catchphrase? Maybe. I think so. Number next. This one, they're all ridiculous. I keep saying that, but it's just so stupid. They're all ridiculous. Weighing the witch against a stack of Bibles.
00:34:24
Speaker
Have you heard this? This just makes me think of Monty Python where they like weigh her against a duck or whatever. They're like, she's a witch. She's so stupid. I'm not a witch. This isn't my nose. It's a false nose. And they're like, yeah, exactly. The world is just Monty Python at this point. But so this was obviously very unreliable. Made no sense.
00:34:46
Speaker
but the witches would be weighed against a random number of Bibles. They would just pick up some Bibles and stack them. And if you weighed more than or less than, you were a witch. So you had to weigh the exact amount of whatever random stack of Bibles you were putting on there at any given time. Yeah. And can you imagine the people accusing? Like anybody get on there, you'd be like, two Bibles. Yep. A witch. Yep. What?
00:35:15
Speaker
What? 80 Bibles. I probably saw way more than 80 Bibles. I don't know. I don't know if it's a Bible way or exactly. Is this like a King's James? Yeah. King's James. King James Bible. Is that what it was? King James. This is new, right? Bibles. Yeah. I don't know. And then I have one more. Okay. Being married more than once.
00:35:39
Speaker
In a world where that was allowed, where their church allowed that, if someone passed, and you were allowed to get married again. So, okay, no, to me, to me, that's an affront to God. They should be in trouble for that. In their religion, where they're allowed to get married again, and you're saying you've been married more than once, and you're a witch.
00:36:03
Speaker
As God, I would be pissed. All of this should be an effect to God because all of it's a lie to kill people. But for that one, to say where God says, oh, it's okay, my child, if your spouse dies and you clearly have children to feed or you have no one to care for, feel free to get married again, please do so, find happiness in the world. No, which?
00:36:29
Speaker
As God, I would start spiting people. Good. I should just start spiting people. I'll call upon God. Yeah. As I'm not Twitch, I call upon God. Yeah, it says, several older women with two or more husbands were accused of bewitching their deceased spouse, regardless of any actual cause of death, in order to marry again.
Accusations Beyond Witches
00:36:49
Speaker
I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't get, like, I just... Mm-hmm.
00:36:56
Speaker
okay okay okay so this one or this this section is kind of like um witch trials through history like we talked about up up until Salem times so um one of the oldest witch trials on record was back in 355 AD
00:37:17
Speaker
okay okay in alexandria okay so um this was the death of the greek intellect hapadia okay i think is how you say i don't know i looked it up once and then i forget so her father was theon of alexandria a well-respected and well-respected mathematician and astronomer and he taught his daughter math and science which you know
00:37:36
Speaker
girls shouldn't learn that kind of thing. No. No, they shouldn't have. No. As an adult, Hepatia was a leading mathematician, astronomer, and teacher. As for her religious beliefs, her philosophy was Neoplatonism, which was considered pagan at the time, basically. The problem was that Hepatia, I'm going to say this different every time, Hepatia. Hepatia. Can I see it? I think it's Hepatia, is how they say it. Yeah, I think that's more
00:38:06
Speaker
Hapadia lived in a time when there was a lot of unrest and disagreement between the city's three main religions, Christianity, Judaism, and paganism. Surprise. Hapadia was accused of witchcraft, which stemmed from her pagan beliefs, in 415 AD, while writing her chariot to work, which is just the weirdest sentence ever.
00:38:29
Speaker
um hapatio was pulled off of it into the street by a mob of angry christians she was attacked with abalone shells and flayed alive oh my gosh yeah her remains were set on fire and her works were destroyed as the christians tried to remove her from history the man who did this was later canonized as a saint okay yeah that's so nice so nice in 1543
00:38:56
Speaker
A woman, I'm gonna totally ruin this name because it's like Danish, a woman named Gida Spandemager, the wife of a merchant was accused of casting spells that caused the winds to fail as Danish warships pursued an enemy Dutch fleet.
00:39:15
Speaker
After being tortured, Spandamager confessed to witchcraft and named several other people as accomplices, who were then also tortured and put on trial. None of the others confessed, but authorities executed Spandamager by burning her at the stake. Several celebrated witch trials in Denmark resulted in the executions of hundreds of people.
00:39:34
Speaker
historians estimated that around 250 alleged alleged widget, oh my gosh, witches, witches were executed in the danish district of jetland alone during the 1600s. 250 people? they probably only had like a like a village or whatever of 500? right? yeah yeah it's a lot.
00:39:57
Speaker
This one is fun. Many of the people talked about were victims of paranoia or hysteria, but Gilles Garnier might actually be the only person on the list who committed real crimes. And his crimes were much worse than any of the imagined offenses.
00:40:17
Speaker
From accounts at the time, Gilles was a recluse loner living in the woods around Dole, France. Despite being a solitary man, he married in 1572. The problem was that Garnier was ill-equipped to provide for his family because he wasn't a very good hunter. That's when Garnier started hunting something else entirely. Children.
00:40:41
Speaker
The first murder happened around the end of September in 1572, when Garnier killed a 10-year-old girl, supposedly while in the form of a wolf, and brought some of the flesh home for his wife to eat. Throughout the autumn, more children, both boys and girls between the ages of 9 and 12, were found murdered and mutilated. This caused a stir in the town, who believed it was a werewolf who was committing the murders. People thought it, uh...
00:41:07
Speaker
It was a werewolf because at a number of the murder scenes, people happened to walk by and see a humanoid wolf who would run off into the woods once it realized it had been seen. In January of 1573, there was one last murder. This time, villagers heard a child screaming in the sounds of a wolf. They ran to the scene and witnessed a wolf run away from the child, but as it did, it turned into a human form and people realized it was Garnier.
00:41:36
Speaker
Garnier was arrested, put on the rack, and he confessed to killing the children and eating them if they entered the forest. At his trial, more than 50 people testified and he was found guilty of lycanthropy and witchcraft. He and his wife were burned at the stake on January 8, 1573. Today it's unclear if Garnier was actually a serial killer and cannibal, or if he was an innocent man who was just another victim of the witch trial mentality.
00:42:04
Speaker
Possibly a real werewolf. Yeah. Okay. Listen, listen, listen. Okay. One person saying like, Oh my gosh. Yeah. I think they're a werewolf. Two people maybe, but you're telling me multiple people were like, we think he's a werewolf. I mean, this is still the hysteria and stuff, but like, we see how far that goes. Sure.
00:42:21
Speaker
but i just yeah it could have just been a wolf it's true you know you're in the woods yeah but whenever this one is the trial of the paisley witches it was started by the accusation of a child in this case it was 11 year old christian shaw who supposedly became possessed in 1696 and accused seven or eight people in the town of paisley of bewitching her
00:42:46
Speaker
As the year went on, witnesses claimed they saw Shaw fly and would cough up strange things like coal and hair. In early 1697, over 30 people were accused and four women and three men were sentenced to death. Out of the seven, only six made it to their execution. One of the men committed suicide in his cell. I'm sure that's way better than whatever they were going to do.
00:43:12
Speaker
And that's at a time where full-on believing, committing suicide, you'd go to hell. True. Yeah. Holy crap. Like, I mean, a lot of people still think that today and stuff, but like, yeah. But strongly. Yeah. The rest of them were garroted and then their bodies were burned. Finally, their ashes were placed in a grave that was sealed with a horseshoe.
00:43:35
Speaker
As one of the women, Agnes Naismith, was being executed, she cursed the town's people of Paisley and their descendants. As time went on, the legend of the witches grew, and it was said that if the grave was ever disturbed, then the people of Paisley would be cursed.
00:43:50
Speaker
In the 1960s, this very thing happened. During construction, the horseshoe was removed, and in an amazing coincidence, the town's economy took a downturn. In 2012, it had the most empty shops on any high street in the entire UK. Wow. Yeah. I mean, if I was being, you know, sentenced to die for no reason, I would be cursing everybody. Yeah, exactly.
00:44:15
Speaker
of course on all your houses. Dishonor on you, dishonor on your cow. This one might be the last one, but it's fun. This is the Torsaker witch trials. The trials began when Johannes, that name? Johannes of Torsaker Parish told Laurentius Christophiri Hornaeus to investigate witchcraft in his parish.
00:44:39
Speaker
Hornaeus was zealous in his work. By the time his task was complete, 71 people had been beheaded and burnt. 65 of these were women, which was roughly one fifth of all the women in their religion. Okay. Yeah. The priest had two boys stand at the door of the church to identify witches by an invisible mark on their forehead as they went in.
00:45:01
Speaker
don't know what that means. Okay. On one occasion, one of the boys pointed at the wife of the priest himself. People gasped, but she, as she told her grandson who wrote down the story, then slapped the boy and he quickly apologized when he saw who he had pointed at and said that he had been blinded by the sun. You're not a witch. Don't worry about it.
00:45:24
Speaker
Yeah. About 100 people of both sexes were accused by the children. After the last sermon in the church of Torsaker, the prisoners, 71 people, were led to the place of execution. Hornaeus describes the execution in his book where he wrote down the exact words of his grandmother, the eyewitness, and she describes it like this after a speech in the church.
00:45:47
Speaker
They began to understand what would happen. Cries to heaven rose of vengeance over those who caused their innocent deaths, but no cries and no tears would help.
00:45:56
Speaker
Parents, men and brothers held a fence of spikes, by which she meant that the men of the village, the family members of the prisoners, surrounded the prisoners with weapons. Many fainted on the way out of weakness and death wish, and they were carried by their families up until the place of execution, which was in the middle of the parish, half a mile from the three churches,
00:46:20
Speaker
and was called the mountain of the state. On the mountain, the prisoners were decapitated away from the stakes so as to not drown the wood in blood and make it hard to light.
00:46:32
Speaker
And when they were dead, the families took off their clothes and lifted their bodies onto the stakes, which were lit and burned until they went out by themselves. The family of the executed then went home, according to Raffina, without showing any emotion as if they were completely numb, which like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just had to help behead my family member. I had to carry them to their execution, behead them, undress them, stick them to a stake,
00:47:01
Speaker
and watch them burn for like a long time, I would assume. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be dumb too. Right? I think that's where I'm going to end it for now. That's kind of like the timeline that we have that I've, that I, you know, the fun ones that I found up until the 1600s and America. So after this is like America. Okay. But yeah. Holy shit. People are like,
00:47:26
Speaker
people are stupid people are so stupid and like the mob mentality is insane it's insane to me like people are always like oh if I had to go back in time and tell somebody I was from the future I would like show them this they think you were a witch you would just be considered like you'd be accused as a witch and burned also people like
00:47:46
Speaker
I wish I could be the person who's like if I was back in like the Nazi days I'd be the one like standing up for people and like saying this isn't right and like no you wouldn't know you wouldn't because you and your entire family would be killed yeah like I would want to help people yeah like maybe try to hide them or something but I'm not standing up to any of them yeah it's an entire army yeah of Nazis yeah
00:48:10
Speaker
and this was an entire army of your village like all these people you thought you knew yeah turned against you because one person said you had a cat or saw you in the woods or saw you had a freckle yeah like what and a lot of it is like these people who
00:48:29
Speaker
claim to be experts on it, writing books about it, and then it spreads, and you know, everybody is like, yes, this must be the truth. Oh, it's clearly happening. Yes, it's, it's, oh, if it happened in this village, it must be happening in our village. We have to, you know, free ourselves of the witches, like,
00:48:46
Speaker
There's actually, hold on, let me look. I'm not gonna read the whole story, but essentially, going back to what we were just talking about with the books, there was somebody who wrote a book called Malleus Maleficarum, which translates to the hammer of witches. And it was like how to identify witches and stuff like that. And for more than 100 years, this book sold more copies than any other book in Europe, except the Bible.
00:49:14
Speaker
So it was like, Bible witches. For a hundred years, people were buying this up. Yep. They're like, that's all they had to do. So, you know, they're bored, like you said, but like... It's insane to me what boredom can do, honestly. And like you said, like, it's scary to think, like, there's plenty of things that could happen now that could incite anything like
Modern Parallels to Witch Hunts
00:49:41
Speaker
this. Yep.
00:49:42
Speaker
and it would not be far off at all. It wouldn't be hard at all, especially with social media and like people joining, you know, groups that you can join and creating all different kinds of meetings and riots and whatever the fuck. Like it's already happening. It's already happening.
00:49:58
Speaker
It just shows me how like weak and feeble humans really are. You know what I mean? Like they can be convinced. It's like cults. Yep. They can be convinced of literally anything. Oh yeah and it's it's crazy how like how you think that could never be me. That could never be me. That would never be me. You know? And then you get sucked right in. You get sucked right in.
00:50:19
Speaker
Because if you find the cause that speaks to you the right way, because everything looks pretty from the outside, it's shiny and beautiful and they give you exactly what you need. If you need a friend, they have it. If you need food, they have it. They're catering to you exactly. That's why I always say you have to be so fucking careful about like religions you're looking into and stuff. If they have an encampment, maybe don't.
00:50:45
Speaker
Maybe don't. If you get there and they say, oh, spouses can't sleep together, leave. Yeah. Leave right now. Like. If they say the leader's pretty hot, aren't they? You definitely should probably sleep with the leader. Yeah. You should totally sleep with the leader. Join the harem of the leader. Hey, you guys have a lot of money. Yeah. You should give that to me. Yeah. Let me tell you why. Yeah. Because I have A through Z list of reasons why it's a good idea.
00:51:13
Speaker
Oh, and then you should try these drugs. Like, no, okay. No religion should be telling you that. Not at all. No religion should be saying, you can't leave, give me all of your money. Okay? Because every church has tithe. Every single church has donations and stuff, which is fine. You're very welcome to donate to your church if you feel like you would like to help them and stuff. That's totally fine. But like, it drives me crazy when people are just like, oh, Christianity is a cult.
00:51:41
Speaker
Some I mean all religions a cult if you think about it, you know, I mean like I mean you're to an extent But yeah, but you're worshiping God not a person who's pretending to be a God. That's the thing sure So that we know that we know but like well cuz like no most cults will like isolate you That's what they do. They isolate you they keep you right here. They get you in need
00:52:03
Speaker
and you're down. They get you when you're down. They want all your money. They want all your time. They want all your attention. They want you to focus solely on the leader. And that's not what people should be doing. So, cause I don't care what fucking religion you are. Most religions, I get to go home. I get to be with my family. I'm told I should be spending time with my family, you know? I'm told I should be caring for my family above all else. That's what most religions are teaching you.
00:52:32
Speaker
and if a religion says no yeah you shouldn't do that no that's not the religion for you if a religion tells you to start persecuting people yeah for no fucking reason for no reason maybe don't do that maybe don't do that maybe don't join them yeah maybe don't uh like i just you know like anything even like oh no we're not a religion we're just a group of friends
00:52:54
Speaker
Because that's what uh, that's what Charles Manson was. It was just him and his family. Come join the family. Who doesn't want to be part of the family? And apparently, according to Charles Manson, don't take this out of the wrong context, black people are evil.
00:53:09
Speaker
Black people are the the lowest form of humanity and they're gonna rise up and kill everybody. Yeah, like he was insane Yeah, and he had those girls so high all the time They full-on believed that in the desert they were gonna find an underground city and live for hundreds of years and grow fairy wings I mean there's some things in normal not quote-unquote normal religion that I am like
00:53:34
Speaker
That's weird. You believe what? Yeah, that's weird. Yeah, some of that's really weird. I mean, if you think about it, fucking invisible heaven up in the sky with angels and you know what I mean? That's my thing though, is that like most people don't believe it's heaven in the sky. It's just the next plane of existence. Okay. So yeah, but there are some people that are like, no, heaven's in the sky. It's above us. I'm like, that's not, it's just, it's a, it's a different, it's a different plane. That's how I think it is. Like, cause people are like, Oh,
00:54:01
Speaker
You know, we've had NASA and they don't see a big bearded guy. Nobody, most people don't actually think there's a big bearded guy sitting in the sky. That's not how that works. Like- He's not sitting at a computer being like- He's not waiting for us all to die. No. This isn't Monty Python, people. It's the next plane of existence. Yeah. It's an existence we can't see. Like that's my, like that's, you know, that's what I- So I just- There's a veil there. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's a different place. It's not.
00:54:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's not earth. It's not earth. It's not outer space. No, no, it's an entirely different, you know, they just, yeah. So I get really frustrated when they're like, oh, there's no big, most people don't think he's up there. Most people don't think he's just sitting there watching us all day. Yeah. You are the stupid ones. If you think that, if you think that's what we think. So like, I just, yeah, anyway though. So, but like, it's just shit like this. They're straight up just like,
00:54:55
Speaker
Oh yeah, you must be a witch because you got a freckle and I saw a frog crook at you once. Well, it's just frustrating that it is these people in power of the church that are doing all this shit in the name of God. And it's like, my God wouldn't want you doing this shit.
00:55:12
Speaker
Like, it's just stupid. Anyway. That's another thing to me, is that like, I'm sorry. I would full on think back then, as a holy religious person, do you think it's not children deciding who has these marks. You think God would be the one being like, oh, that's them. You think God would be the one being like, yeah.
00:55:34
Speaker
That's a sign of the devil. That's a sign of the devil. Yeah, like not just randomly deciding. Oh, do you weigh as much as a stack of books? Right? No, then you're a devil. Do you sink in the water because something about baptism? Right? What? No. Like if you came out of the water and you didn't have a single drop of water on you. Well, that'd be different. Witchcraft. Oh yeah, witchcraft. Sure. Yeah. You float? Yep. Fuck you. Yep.
00:55:59
Speaker
Oh, are we gonna like talk about this like log of wood? Is that it? You know, is that a witch like witch, you know burn it just Won't be able to burn this way. Yeah, just stupid It's the steak they burn the witch at like I just you know, like it Yes, gotta burn the witchcraft out of it It's ridiculous
00:56:22
Speaker
I did not know the fucking Bibles one. That one I- It's just sad, like the things like Monty Python, the things that make fun of witch trials aren't far off. Nope. Like they're just changing little things, but that's legit what people did. Yeah. This is history. Yep. Oh, it's so dumb. It's so dumb.
00:56:42
Speaker
anyway there's gonna be a part two yeah there's a lot of there's some fun stories that I want to talk about no you're fine you're fine I was thinking it was gonna be a two-parter anyway because there's just so much information but I was hoping that we could just record two parts at once but no you're fine it's all good so
00:57:01
Speaker
yeah be on the lookout for that hopefully it'll just come out but the next episode you'll get another one whenever it comes out because shit's happening yep anyway we love you guys yeah bye love you have a great time
00:57:15
Speaker
Thank you guys so much for listening to this week's episode. Let us know what you think by leaving a comment or sending us an email at bmoviebashpodcast at gmail.com. You can listen to our episodes on all your favorite podcast platforms, including Spotify, Stitcher, Google, Apple, Amazon Music, and Audible, or you can find the video versions on our YouTube channel. If you want to support the podcast, you can find our coffee link on our anchor page. Make sure to like, subscribe, and tell your friends!
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Speaker
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