Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
The Sodder Family Tragedy | SPOOKTOBER | #JY S3E14
131 Plays1 year ago
On the night of Christmas Eve, the parents of the Sodder children went to bed completely unawares of the horror they would wake up to just a few hours later - their home was being overtaken by fire, and 5 out of their 10 children were no where to be found...
This case has so many frustrating dead ends and remains unsolved to this day.
Ready to shop better hydration, use my special link https://zen.ai/judgingyouwithalyssashannon to save 20% off anything you order! Or use our promo code "judgingyou" at checkout!
Use my special link https://zen.ai/judgingyoupod0 to save 25% on your first order at wearewild.com
Like what you hear? Support us on Ko-fi!
https://ko-fi.com/judgingyoupod
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
If you're anything like me, you're not drinking nearly as much water as you should. As much as we want to be healthy, sometimes it's hard to pick up that water bottle full of boring, plain water over and over again. Thankfully, I discovered Liquid IV. Liquid IV is a delicious water additive that has five essential vitamins, three times the electrolytes of traditional sports drinks, and hydrates two times faster than water alone.
00:00:22
Speaker
I love liquid IV when I'm traveling because as much as I don't want to use an airplane bathroom, it is so important to stay hydrated when you're flying. Trust me, you'll feel so much better if you do. The packaging is super convenient and you can easily bring your empty water bottle through security, fill it up in the terminal and add your favorite flavor of liquid IV. I'm obsessed with the new strawberry lemonade flavor right now, but honestly, you can't go wrong with any of them. Liquid IV is made with premium ingredients and is also gluten, dairy and soy free, which is really such an added bonus.
00:00:52
Speaker
Get 20% off when you go to liquidiv.com and use code judging you with no spaces at checkout. That's 20% off anything you order when you shop better hydration today using promo code judging you with no spaces at liquidiv.com.
00:01:24
Speaker
Hello everybody. Hello. My name is Shannon. I'm Alyssa. Welcome back to another episode of Hashtag Judging You. And this week is our third installment of Spooked Over. I don't know what that jingle was, but it's the least spooky thing that's coming out of my mouth in a while. What are we doing today, Alyssa? Today we're true criming. Oh fun. Yes. I thought about doing a movie. Mm-hmm.
00:01:51
Speaker
But it's an extremely long movie, so I would have had to break it down into a couple of parts. Gotcha. And I didn't know if I wanted to do that. That's fair. Or if I wanted to do, I tell you guys the first half of the movie or like a quarter of it or something, and then tell you to go watch it yourselves because it's a movie I've been trying to get people to watch for a very long time. Oh, that's not nice. So I was like, that could be fun.
00:02:16
Speaker
that maybe but then I remember the first part of the movie is very slow because it's a lot of the world building and stuff so like yeah but today we are going to be doing a true crime case sweet and this is another one of those that I'm gonna be banging down the pearly fence or pearly gates pearly fence you know the gate yes and being like the fuck happened cuz okay yeah
The Sodder Family Tragedy Begins
00:02:39
Speaker
Unsolved? It's unsolved. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So let me take you back to the lovely wintery time of Christmas. Oh no. Why are they all at Christmas time? I don't know. This is literally the third one we've done that was around Christmas time. And this is the
00:02:58
Speaker
Funniest part happens here in a second. That's, that's funny. So not, I mean, coink-a-dinkle is also like, yeah. So yes, I said, most families spend Christmas Eve nestled together, singing Christmas songs, reading stories to one another, venturing out to look at Christmas lights, anticipation for Santa and the gifts the next morning, keeping the children well up past their bedtimes. However, for the Sotter family, this night, a peace and calm would quickly turn into the worst night of their lives.
00:03:26
Speaker
George Soder immigrated to America in 1908. At the age of 13 was an older brother who, the moment George cleared customs, returned back home. For the rest of his life, George would speak very little of his family or why he left home. Soder eventually found work on the railroads in Pennsylvania, carrying water and other supplies to workers. After a few years, he took more permanent work as a driver in Smithers, West Virginia.
00:03:51
Speaker
He then started his own trucking company, initially hauling fill dirt to construction sites, and later hauling coal mines in the region. Jenny Cipriani? Cipriani. It's Italian. So a store worker's daughter in Smithers, who had also immigrated from Italy in her childhood, became George's wife.
00:04:11
Speaker
The solder settled outside nearby Fayetteville. I was like, what the fuck? I was doing my notes. I was like, I did not plan that. So I know Christmas Fayetteville. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah. I was like, what? Like 50 years difference here. But yeah, that's still. I know I should have probably kept these for Christmas, but I was like, that's fine. It's fine. So.
00:04:38
Speaker
Let's see. The Sauter Seidel by outside nearby Fayetteville, which had a large population of Italian immigrants in a two story timber house north of town. In 1923, they had the first of their 10 children. Oh my God.
00:04:52
Speaker
George's business prospered and they became one of the most respected middle-class families around. However, George had strong opinions about many subjects and was not shy about expressing them, sometimes alienating people. In particular, his strident opposition to the Italian dictator Benito Mussolini had led to some strong arguments with other members of the immigrant community.
00:05:17
Speaker
The last of the soldered children, Silvia, was born in 1942. By then their second oldest son, Joe, who some, like he's 21, some people said that he was the oldest son and he left, but other, like I've seen, I don't know, I've seen two different sources saying that like he was the second oldest and then one saying he was the oldest. So I don't, I'm not entirely sure. One of their sons, who was 21, had left home to serve in the military during World War II. The following year, Mussolini was deposed and executed.
00:05:47
Speaker
However, George's criticisms of the late dictator had left some hard feelings. His previous boss, Lorenzo Gianatello, strongly disagreed with George's opinions on Mussolini. Despite their differences, though, the two remained close friends after George left to start his own business. And this, I don't get why this was a thing. I don't understand. Okay.
00:06:11
Speaker
At this time, George had a $1,500 mortgage insurance clause that would be payable to Janitello. For some reason, if something happened to the house, the insurance would pay Janitello, not George. He like helped pay for the house to be built or something? Possibly. I could not find any reason as to why. Like as a loan situation? Yeah, I'm not sure. Weird. So...
00:06:34
Speaker
Okay. No idea. But he allegedly increased the insurance to $17,050 without the knowledge or permission of the Sodder family. Jeez, that's a lot of money back then. Right. Which he received the entire payout on after the family's tragedy.
00:06:53
Speaker
Oh, good. It's also alleged that Janatello tried to trick George into signing an additional life insurance policy. George and Jenny refused this insurance and Janatello was furious saying, quote, your goddamn house is going up in smoke. Your children are going to be destroyed and you will pay for the dirty remarks you have been making about Mussolini.
00:07:12
Speaker
So we do know who did it is what you're telling me but Police are saying that it wasn't that George was puzzled by the observation since he had just had the house Rewired with an electrical stove or when an electrical stove was installed and the local electric company had said afterwards It was safe. So he was like, I don't know you're talking about
00:07:34
Speaker
Right. You're fine. In weeks before Christmas that year, Georgia's older sons also noted a strange car parked along the main highway through town. It's occupants watching the younger Sotter children as they returned home from school. Ooh. Yeah. Someone else also had come out. I forgot to write that down. I suck. Oh, I missed. I missed it. No, I did write it down. I missed it. Before another visitor to the house, uh, ostensibly... Ostensibly?
00:08:00
Speaker
There you go. There we go. Seeking work took the occasion to go around to the back of the house and warn George that a pair of fuse boxes would cause a fire someday. That's where George was puzzled, sorry.
The Night of the Fire
00:08:13
Speaker
So yeah, someone who was like, hey, do you need help on the land? And suddenly, you know, oh, those fuse boxes don't look good. They're going to cause a fire. Like, that's just sus.
00:08:22
Speaker
You know, it's just really weird that all these people are saying shit about his house. Like it was very strange, right? It's just stupid. Anyway, okay, back to where it was. Sorry. The Sauter family celebrated on Christmas Eve in 1945. Marianne, 19, the oldest daughter had been working at a dime store in downtown Fayetteville and she surprised her three younger sisters, Martha, age 12, Jenny, age eight, and Betty, age five with new toys she had bought them for gifts.
00:08:50
Speaker
The younger children were so excited they asked their mother if they could stay up past what would have been their usual bedtime. At 10 p.m. Jenny told them that they could stay up a little later as long as the two oldest boys who were still awake, 14 year old Maurice and his nine-year-old brother Louis, remembered to put the cows in and feed the chickens before going to bed themselves.
00:09:11
Speaker
George and the two oldest boys, John and George Jr., who was 16, or John, 22, George Jr., 16, had spent the day, yeah, John Joe, George Jr., like, yeah.
00:09:26
Speaker
Also, fucking George's middle name was Luis. So you're just George Luis, and then you named your younger brother Luis. It's a lot, but I mean, it was the 1940s. Everybody was George and John, and all the girls were named Brittany and Luis.
00:09:44
Speaker
Solid joke. Thank you. Let's see. They had spent the day working with their father and were already asleep. After reminding the children of those remaining chores, she took Sylvia to upstairs with her and they went to bed together. So that means that the oldest sister who was 19 was downstairs with her three younger sisters and two younger brothers. Okay.
00:10:06
Speaker
The telephone rang at 1230 a.m. Jenny woke and went downstairs to answer it. The caller was a woman whose voice she did not recognize, asking for a name she was not familiar with. With the sound of laughter and clinking glasses in the background, Jenny told the caller that she had reached a wrong number, later recalling the woman had a weird laugh.
00:10:25
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:43
Speaker
up to the attic where they slept. She closed the curtains, turned out the lights, and returned to bed. At 1am, Jenny was again awakened by the sound of an object hitting the roof with a loud bang, then a rolling noise. After hearing nothing further, she went back to sleep.
00:10:58
Speaker
After another half hour, she awoke again, smelling smoke. When she got up again, she found that the room George used for his office was on fire around the telephone line in Fuse Box. Jenny woke him, and he in turn woke his older sons. Both parents and four of their children, Marion, Sylvia, John, and George Jr., escaped the house. They frantically yelled for the children upstairs, but heard no response.
00:11:24
Speaker
They could not go up the stairs. The stairway itself was already aflame. John said in his first police interview after the fire that he went into the attic to alert his siblings sleeping there, though he later changed his story to say that he only called up there and did not actually see them.
00:11:42
Speaker
Efforts to find aid and rescue for the children were unexpectedly complicated. The phone did not work, so Marion ran to a neighbor's house to call the Fayetteville Police Department. She ran to a neighbor's house to call the Fayetteville Fire Department. A driver on the nearby road had also seen the flames and called from a nearby tavern.
00:12:04
Speaker
They too were unsuccessful because they could not reach the operator or because the phone were turned out to be broken. I'm not sure what that meant exactly. That's just the only thing. Neither of them, however, the only thing that they know is that they could not reach the operator, just kept ringing. That's weird. And a lot of people are like, what was Christmas Eve?
00:12:25
Speaker
It was Christmas Eve. The fucking emergency services. Right? I just, yeah. The operator should be working all the time. Exactly. I know. And you sit there and you think, 1945, yeah, that was clearly like the 1900s. They barely even had telephones back then. I'm like, no, this was World War II. Yeah. Telephones were in every house basically at that point, you know, like.
00:12:43
Speaker
so this is definitely more common yeah they would have a telephone and stuff you know either the neighbor or the passing motorist was eventually successful in reaching the fire department from another phone in the center of town george barefoot attempted to climb the house's outside wall and broke open a window cutting his arm in the process
00:13:02
Speaker
He and his sons intended to use a ladder to the attic to rescue the other children. And he normally had this really big ladder that he used for his business all the time and just, you know, stuff around the house. It's a two story house. Yeah. You fixed everything yourself back then. Exactly. Yeah. And he kept it on the side of his house, but it was not there. So, and they still have no idea where the ladder is. Cool. Yeah.
00:13:26
Speaker
So yeah, it was not in its usual spot against the house and could not be found nearby. He attempted to scoop water from a barrel that they kept by the house. However, unfortunately it was frozen solid.
00:13:38
Speaker
George then tried to pull both of his trucks he used in his business up to the house and try to climb them into the attic window. But neither of them would start despite having worked perfectly during the previous day. Can you imagine how distraught you would be if your children were in a burning building and literally everything you were trying was like, fuck you. Oh my God.
00:14:05
Speaker
I feel so guilty. I don't know. I personally would have been back in the house and up the stairs at that case. But at that point, would the stairs even be able to hold me going up? Exactly. I don't know. But frustrated, the six sodders who had escaped had no choice but to watch the house burn down and collapse over the next 45 minutes.
00:14:25
Speaker
they assumed the other five children had perished in the blaze and the whole time they were screaming out to them just calling their names and they said that not once did they hear a peep back not even a scream okay nothing
00:14:39
Speaker
They assumed that the other five children had perished in the blaze. The fire department, low on manpower due to the war and relying on individual firefighters, so they were just all volunteers, to call each other, did not respond until later that morning. Chief F.J. Morris said the next day that the already slow response was further hampered by his inability to drive the fire truck, requiring that he wait until someone who could drive was available.
00:15:08
Speaker
I'm sorry, I don't give a fuck. Get in the car and go help these people. Exactly. And this was still at a time where they didn't have the breathing apparatuses to try to go in. They haven't even really had those breathing apparatuses till the 90s. Even in the 80s, they were still going in just being like, hello. Just praying. Praying that they could breathe through the fire enough to get to people. Not cry of smoke inhalation themselves.
00:15:35
Speaker
Did you know that the firefighters now have this really cool thing on their suits that if they stop moving for more than 16 seconds, it starts blaring. So if a firefighter goes down somewhere, if they're injured or they're stuck, the other firefighters can hear where they are and we'll go and try to rescue them. So like if they got like a beam fell down and been, you know, beam them in the head and they're down and unconscious, it just starts beeping automatically after 16 seconds.
00:16:01
Speaker
Cool. So and because I mean obviously I just got knocked unconscious. I can't call for help. I can't activate it It just automatically goes off if they're not moving and I'm like that is so fucking dope right smart Yeah, the firefighters one of whom was a brother of Jenny's could do little but look through the ashes that were left in the solders basement by 10 a.m Morris told the solders that they had not found any bones as might have been expected if the other children had been in
00:16:27
Speaker
in the house as it burned. According to another account, they did find a few bone fragments and internal organs, but chose not to tell the family, and we'll talk more about that later. It has also been noted, a modern fire professionals, that their search was cursory
Investigation Doubts and Theories
00:16:43
Speaker
at best, right? So they were basically just like, oh, no bones here, no children here. Kick, kick, nothing. Honestly though, I would have been digging through every inch of that house. I don't fucking care if it was,
00:16:55
Speaker
Still smoldering. I would have wanted to know where my children were, you know, like I don't even have kids, but yeah. Nevertheless, Morris believed the five children unaccounted for had died in the fire, suggesting it had been hot enough to burn their bodies completely. The final conclusion from the investigators, the fire had started by faulty wiring. Of course. The two fuse boxes in the back.
00:17:19
Speaker
Devastated, the solders collected ash from the site and buried it in a box in place of graves for their five lost children. Intending to memorialize the site with a garden, George covered the area with five feet of dirt just four days later. Death certificates were issued just after the new year, even without finding the bodies.
00:17:37
Speaker
I don't like where this is going. Right. Because I can feel it and I don't like it. George and Jenny Soder, though heartbroken, didn't let that distract them from the inconsistencies that they were seeing with the investigation. Such as the fire station taking over six hours to respond. Even though it was a holiday and the station was currently volunteer based due to the war, Morris was wrong for not responding until the morning. Yep. Like, I mean, and, and...
00:18:04
Speaker
Sure, houses probably burned a lot faster back then. 45 minutes is all it took to completely take out that house. You're telling me that just an electrical fire started that? Yeah. Wait.
00:18:17
Speaker
Just an electrical fire? I just don't believe that, you know? Let's see, it also didn't entirely explain why the phone operators weren't responding. Some people again were saying, oh, it's Christmas Eve, like, you know, I don't care. Nope. I do not care. You have a job? Yeah. It's probably why, you know, stuff like this is probably the reason why there's way more, you know, people able to respond and stuff. Yeah. And the reason there's like 911 as a centralized thing. Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:42
Speaker
Yeah, because I'm like, could you imagine like, hello operator, can you connect me with the fire department? One moment, please. Connecting wires into holes. Yeah, no. Yeah, it's so much easier to just dial 911 and call for help. Let's see. Second, why were there no human remains found? The house went down in under an hour. There's no way a fire could have burned hot enough to completely burn through the bones. Jenny went and asked an employee at a local crematorium if that was even possible.
00:19:10
Speaker
The employee told her that even after three or four hours in temperatures ranging from 1,400 to 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit, bones still remain. An average house fire burns at 1,100 degrees Fahrenheit, nowhere near hot enough to eradicate bones. Even household appliances found in the basement were identifiable. Jenny started doing her own experiments burning animal bones and still able to identify the bones.
00:19:36
Speaker
Like she would just burn them as hot as she could get them. And she was still like, that's a bone. However, not long after the fire, a local bus driver came forward with his account of the evening, claiming to see, I don't know where he was when this was happening, unless he was just driving past their house.
00:19:53
Speaker
I don't know. And if that's the case, why were you not rushing to the house to tell them this was going on? There's a few things that I'm just so confused and it makes you wonder like, did that even happen? Were you just making this up because you want to be like part of the story? Because people do that shit all the time and stuff. I just don't know.
00:20:12
Speaker
claiming to see balls of fire being tossed on the roof just before the fire broke out. A day or so later, Jenny came across what she thought was a green pineapple lying in the yard where the home had once stood. After turning the item over to the authorities, they were told it was an incendiary device.
00:20:29
Speaker
Oh my God. Jenny was positive the fire was a result of arson, remembering how the fire started at the top floor and moved lower. The investigators denied this and still believe the fuse box was the cause of the fire and could have just started the fire higher up. Something called a chimney fire. Flames sometimes pass from one floor to the next without passing outwards and they normally pass through the walls and they just keep going up and up. And then when they reach the top and there's nowhere else to go, then they start to spread out.
00:20:59
Speaker
and so it can happen but we're just gonna ignore the fire bomb they found exactly yeah so that why would they have had that in their house why why would it have been in their grass like just yeah no but if the bus driver did see the fireballs who was throwing them yeah
00:21:15
Speaker
Another witness came forward and said he saw two men stealing equipment from George's business. George removes engines from old trucks and stuff too. He does a lot of different things and he had pretty expensive equipment that would help raise the engines out. It was just a bunch of pulleys and ropes basically, but it was pretty expensive for the time.
00:21:38
Speaker
And anyway, but this man knew who the two men were, Dave Adkins and Lonnie Johnson, the owners of a beer joint just in Fayetteville. However, only Lonnie Johnson was interviewed as Dave Adkins joined the army to avoid persecution.
00:21:54
Speaker
So, you know, he just up and outed. But Lonnie's testimony was that he confessed to stealing the items that they were stealing because that's, you know, that's what we were doing. And that he also confessed to cutting what he thought was a power line, but turned out to be the phone line to the house.
00:22:12
Speaker
However, the phone line was 14 feet up in the air. He did not confess to taking the family's ladder and using that to cut the phone line. But he just accidentally cut it. Somehow. So they don't know if he took the ladder and took it with him too kind of a thing. How is he cutting the power?
00:22:33
Speaker
Trying to I have no idea like he never explains why he does that He was stealing the equipment and cut the power line or what he thought was the power line But was in fact the phone line. Okay, so no idea It is a possibility that he took the ladder to do it because like that is a fantastic Explanation of why the ladder was missing and why your phone line was cut. Yeah, so it's clear up there. Yeah 14 feet in the air. Yeah, so I
00:22:59
Speaker
I don't even know if a ladder could reach that high. I mean, if it's like a 12 foot ladder or a 10 foot ladder that you're standing on. I guess, I guess I'm just short, so there's that. Let's see. Also, the police did admit that they didn't really investigate Lonnie, Dave, or the sodders former employer, Forenzo, very carefully.
00:23:18
Speaker
Cool for you. Another thing that plagues many to this day, including the rest of the family, was why after shouting for the five children for an hour did they not hear a single response from them. Investigators believe the children had either suffocated in their sleep from the smoke, which
00:23:34
Speaker
is a very high possibility if they were upstairs in the attic where they were sleeping and the fire broke out in the attic, they could have been breathing in smoke the entire time and had just passed in their sleep, which I hope is what happened to them, genuinely. Don't know what happened.
00:23:52
Speaker
So that's the thing. Some people think they know, other people are like, no, we have no idea. So the children had either suffocated in their sleep or had been too frightened to flee their rooms, staying in small tight spaces to escape the flames, only to die by the fire or lack of air, which is what happens to a lot of children. They've done a lot of studies and stuff. Most children under the age of 12 will immediately hide.
00:24:17
Speaker
because they're just trying to stay away from the flames and the heat and that's why it's so important to be teaching children this is what you're supposed to do in case of a fire. So anyway, but the solders were not convinced of this conclusion to the children's death. The couple remembered during the fire that lights were still on in the house. So how could this be from faulty wiring?
00:24:42
Speaker
George demanded investigators look at the site one more time. So four years later they did. He had been spending four years demanding that they do this, right? Strangely, investigators found four small bones in what was once the basement. The bones were sent out to be investigated to the Smithsonian Institute for identification. The bones were from the same set of lumber, or from a same set,
00:25:06
Speaker
of lumbar vertebrae with fused transverse recesses. And I don't entirely know what that means. But I think from my understanding is once you reach a certain age, your bones start to stay there. Obviously you're not growing anymore and stuff. And they're saying that that could only be after puberty.
00:25:27
Speaker
right, which they believed that this, um, these set of vertebrae belonged to someone between the ages of 16 to 18 and was highly improbable for it to have belonged to 14 year old Maurice, who was the oldest child that was not accounted for. To the new, the far. George and the Smithsonian both noticed something immediately about the bones. No charring or burning, never even being exposed to fire could be found.
00:25:56
Speaker
as if the bones had been placed there after the fire. Investigators believe that the bones came from the five feet of dirt that George had put over the family site, which is a possibility. People find shit like that all the time, you know. Or it was possibly placed there after the fire before the dirt to placate the family, hoping that someone would find it and be like, oh, there's our children.
00:26:20
Speaker
After the Smithsonian's findings, there were two court hearings trying to fight to reopen the case, but both were denied. The judge said, I'm so sorry, but unfortunately the only way for me to reopen this case is evidence of kidnapping.
00:26:36
Speaker
George attempted to contact the FBI asking for help, but J. Edgar Hoover replied saying that they would be unable to help as the case does not fall under their jurisdiction. However, they would be very willing to investigate given permission from local authorities, but both police and fire declined that permission. So the FBI was like, yeah, we can come out. We just have to like be told we can. And the police were said, there's no reason to, there's no reason.
00:27:06
Speaker
Not that it's costing you anything other than you not being able to swing your big dick around. Other than your T-Go. Yeah. Thank you. Oh my god. So what happened to the Sodder siblings?
Post-Fire Sightings and Hopes
00:27:17
Speaker
George believes that the children were kidnapped just before the fire and are still alive. Or at the time, still alive. If they were, the oldest would be in his 80s right now. So, and I don't know, but maybe.
00:27:35
Speaker
But I don't know why they would keep them alive. Exactly. Most people believe this to be the ramblings of a grief stricken father until there were some sightings.
00:27:50
Speaker
A woman outside of Fayetteville claims that she saw the five slaughter children peering out the window of a passing car the night of the fire. A waitress in a diner between Fayetteville and Charleston, West Virginia says she served the children breakfast on Christmas morning and watched them leave in a car with Florida license plates. I'm sorry.
00:28:13
Speaker
Okay, here's here's my thing though. Okay five children. Yeah five. Yeah So you're telling me that somebody could have been driving around with five children and the police weren't like, yeah, that's true That's them, you know, right but also how did you I mean, I guess fear can do a lot but like five of them Yeah, you can just take in control. Well, I'm of them most of them were let's see
00:28:37
Speaker
12, 8, 5, 9, and 14. I feel like that's old enough to do some shit, you know what I mean?
00:28:45
Speaker
Yep. Unless you're just terrified. Yeah. But like, you're taking these children out to breakfast? Mm-hmm. That seems weird. It's weird to me, yeah. I don't know. So, four to five weeks later, after the fire, an employee at a hotel in Charleston claimed to have checked the soldered children into a room along with four adults, two males and two females. The party arrived at the hotel around midnight, the adult speaking Italian to one another.
00:29:11
Speaker
When the clerk attempted to make small talk with the children, the party went silent and rushed off to their room and checked out extremely early the next morning. In 1947, George spies a photo of school children from a newspaper in New York and believes one of the girls is his daughter, Betty, who would have been seven.
00:29:29
Speaker
Close my mind. Right. A woman at a convent claimed Martha was with her. Even Davenport, California had an anonymous letter saying one of the soldered children was going to school there. All sightings led investigators to dead ends, but George never lost hope and personally went and spoke to these witnesses himself, though was never able to come up with anything and came home heartbroken each time. Good dad though. Right. And that's like, that's, I don't know. Cause there was a couple of people that were like, oh, they probably,
00:29:58
Speaker
The children probably died for insurance and whatnot and stuff. And oh, and he was probably trying to hide the fact that he killed his five kids and stuff. And I'm like, why? Why? For what reason? For what reason? Yeah. No, absolutely not. Yeah.
00:30:11
Speaker
Because why would he keep trying as long and as hard as he did if he was... I mean I guess if he really wanted to cover up her story but I feel like at that point they would just be like, oh no my children. Yeah and be like, well there's nothing we can do. Yeah exactly. Like if anyone knows anything please tell me. Like you know maybe every couple of years come out and be like does anyone know where my children are? No. Hmm. Okay. Yeah. Yeah and I'll believe that.
00:30:36
Speaker
John, one of the brothers, believed that if his siblings were still alive, they would have most likely been taken to Italy. Most people thought this to be a silly idea until the Sodders received a postcard in 1968. The envelope had no return address, but postmarked in Kentucky. The envelope contained a picture of a dark-haired young man, possibly in his 20s. That's the picture.
00:31:01
Speaker
On the back was written, Louis Solder, I love brother Frankie, ill ill boys, A-9-0-1-3-2 or 1-3-5. They weren't entirely sure if it was a two or a five. So Jenny and George were immediately convinced the boy was their youngest son, Louis. That boy on the right, oh my God.
00:31:23
Speaker
And the best part is that I couldn't find a picture that wasn't, anyway, but the other pictures I've seen, they have the same ears. Their ears were both just massive.
00:31:35
Speaker
So like, which those are, I mean, those are fairly normal size for adult, but like, those are also kind of big ears and his ears were just so big. Like he was so cute, right? The Sodders feared releasing the information to the police would put their son in danger. So they hired a private investigator to go to Kentucky where the letter had been postmarked. Unfortunately, the detective left for Kentucky with the Sodders money and was never seen or heard from again.
00:32:02
Speaker
Fuck that guy. Or did he find out what was going on? True, true, true, true. Okay, I'll take that. And did he get mafia hit? Personally, I think he stole the money and ditched. That's what I think. But yeah, if someone saw him on their tail, I guess they could have. I don't know how much they paid him to do that. So yeah, it could have been. But while George and Jenny aren't sure what the message on the back of the picture meant, some believe that the numbers are zip codes for Palmaro, Italy.
00:32:29
Speaker
what is the ill ill like what i'm not sure okay and who's brother frankie like no idea that's weird yep
00:32:37
Speaker
unless they had been dropped off with other families in Italy. And I don't know, just had them live out their lives and stuff. Like just, yeah. Cause I fully believe the younger children could have been convinced long enough. That was just, you don't know who those people are. Or, oh, your parents are dead. So sad. You have to live with family here. Right. Kind of a thing. What are you going to do when you're dropped off in Italy? Like you can't. Exactly. Yeah.
00:33:05
Speaker
Yeah. In the 1940s as a child. You're not going anywhere. You're not going anywhere. No. Yeah. It's the middle of the war. Yeah. You're not going anywhere. You're not going anywhere. Yep. The family quickly lost faith in law enforcement and erected a billboard for their children or with their children's faces on them and handed out flyers offering $5,000, which was on the flyers. I saw the flyers. It said 5,000 and on the billboard, it said 10,000. So I don't know. Anyway, but
00:33:31
Speaker
yep um reward for information or help finding their missing children another this is where it gets really really weird for me this is where it gets weird this is okay this is very bizarre to me okay they hired another private investigator who uncovered evidence learning that the state fire marshal had been present that christmas morning um he had interviewed or the the state fire marshal
00:33:55
Speaker
stated that he interviewed everyone who sorted through all the remains of the building, all of which reported seeing human remains on the site. The state fire marshal also claims that he put Morris, the fire chief, in charge of the remains and told him to inform the family. However, again, Morris told the family that there were no remains found.
00:34:18
Speaker
A local minister told the police, which breaking his vows by the way, told the police that Morris had confessed to him that he had found a heart in the ashes of the fire. Because apparently when your internal organs burn, they become really bright red and it's very easy to find them in fires and stuff. So that's what they're searching for when they're looking for bodies is the bright organs. If your flesh is burned up though, how do the organs not burn up?
00:34:48
Speaker
I think because they're made of really thick mussel and stuff. I don't know. I have no idea, but they turned really bright red. A local minister told the police that Morris had confessed that he had found a heart in the ashes of the fire and buried it in the box on the solder property. Police ordered Morris to show them the buried box, which he did, and after testing concluded it was not a human heart, but a beef liver. What the fuck? And had never been touched by fire.
00:35:16
Speaker
What are we doing? Police believe that Morris had misplaced or lost the children's actual remains and was trying to cover up for his failure, but he never confessed to anything. So all of these people are saying, no, we saw the bodies, but Morris is like, no, there was no bodies. I don't know what you're talking about. And no one told the family. No one told the family. What is happening? But I don't know. It's just so weird to me that like all of these people
00:35:43
Speaker
didn't go and just be like, no, they didn't go to the Sotter family and say, no, I'm so sorry, we found your children's bodies. Yeah. Like, why are you still looking for them? We found them. We found them. No one came to them and said this. They had to hire a private investigator who was able to find the state fire marshal.
00:36:04
Speaker
and ask them this question and for the state fire marshal who did not apparently see the remains but said that they had been found because everyone he interviewed said yeah we found the bodies and then put those bodies in charge of morris to handle yeah but no one can find them no one knows what happened to the bodies if they were there that makes zero sense
00:36:25
Speaker
What in the world? No idea. Despite efforts by law enforcement or the Sodders, nothing was ever fully concluded.
Mafia Theories and Family Resilience
00:36:32
Speaker
The remaining family believed the local mafia were upset with George and had kidnapped the five children before setting the house ablaze as revenge. That the children would have lived out their lives but never contacted the family in fear of putting them in danger.
00:36:44
Speaker
Law enforcement believed that the second half to be improbable as it would be difficult to hold people hostage for that long. However, the FBI thinks that one of Jenny's brothers kidnapped the children and took them to Florida. Why? I don't know. So the FBI finally was like, oh, we can chip in a little bit on this. And we think because the one waitress said that she saw the car with Florida plates. And for some reason they think that Jenny's brother took them. I don't know.
00:37:12
Speaker
Jenny's the mother, George and Jenny Sodder. I know there's a lot of names. It's a lot of people. It's a family of 12. So yeah. However, police investigated that as well, practically forcing the family to prove their children were their own through DNA. I'm not sure entirely how they were able to prove that back in the 40s and even potentially like maybe into the 60s. I don't know. Cause like DNA testing wasn't even really like big until like not even the 90s and even that.
00:37:41
Speaker
So I don't know. I'm guessing what they did was probably like a blood type test because they were able to tell that stuff back then. But like, I don't know. Internet sleuths believe, and this is kind of, this is what I believe happened as well. Internet sleuths believe that the children were kidnapped when they went out to do their chores before the fire even started. And that the oldest sister probably had been waiting for them to come back in and probably had just been like, oh, it was a long day. It's getting pretty late. I'll just close my eyes for a little bit. And she fell asleep on the couch.
00:38:10
Speaker
and didn't realize that her siblings hadn't come back in. Cause like the whole thing about, oh, the window, the drapes were still open and stuff. And through the fire, we don't even know if they even brought the chickens in and whatnot. Like they were supposed to do from everything like that. That wasn't even an account. They don't even know. So. Yeah, that was my thought. Yeah.
00:38:31
Speaker
Aww.
00:38:50
Speaker
George Soder died in 1968. Jenny built a fence around the new home, continually adding new rooms, and caring for the garden where the old house resided. She also only donned black until her death in 1989. Aww. The Soder's billboard was taken down shortly after her death, and a new building presides over the old home. We will more than likely never know what happened to the other Soder children.
00:39:15
Speaker
That's so sad. But that's very much one that I'm just like, what the fuck happened? Like did the house like catch on fire? Did someone set it on fire? Like, you know. Yeah, it definitely seems like it was planned with all of the weird shit that was said to them and hinted to them and the incendiary device. Okay.
00:39:40
Speaker
I hate it. Thanks. I know. I hate it. And there's just so much about that that you're just like, but what is going on? These people are saying that they found the bodies. Yeah. But no one can prove that the bodies were actually in there because they're missing. Did someone have the fire department in their pocket? Right. Or like what? Exactly. It just took so long to get out there. And why wasn't the operator available? Yeah. Why? Yep. I don't know. I have no idea. No idea.
00:40:09
Speaker
that's crazy yeah there's just so many like crossed wires and like weird things it's too it's too weird and it makes you wonder if if they had been able to get into the house if john or if george and john had been able to get in there if they would have not found the siblings upstairs you know and what and then what yeah yeah so also all that house went down in 45 minutes
00:40:34
Speaker
45 minutes. You're telling me that an electrical fire started a house on fire.
00:40:41
Speaker
And it went down to the ground in 45 minutes. I mean, it was like a wooden house. Yeah, but still. But still. That would be so sad. Yeah. Yeah. I don't believe for one minute that the parents had anything to do with it. No. Some people are like, yeah, they did it for the insurance. They didn't get the insurance. No. It went to their fucking old boss. Motherfucker over here. Yeah. And the parents should not be looked at in the slightest for this other than George's opinions, maybe. But that's not a reason to be burning down his house, kidnapping or potentially killing his children. No.
00:41:11
Speaker
Like yeah cuz guess who's on his life insurance guess who's on his home insurance? His boss his boss his ex boss. Yeah, like why first of all like yeah, what?
00:41:22
Speaker
Why did they not look into that? I don't know. He had people in his pocket. And like the whole the whole area was Italian and stuff. So like and a lot of them didn't agree with George's opinions on Mussolini. So like. Yeah, that's a hot topic back then for sure. But still, oh my gosh, that postcard is so weird. Mm hmm. Like what does it mean? What? What? No idea. And he does look just like the little boy. Yep. Just like him.
00:41:51
Speaker
It's just so weird to me. I just don't understand in the slightest like and if the children were alive if they were taken somewhere else, you know Which and I mean it would kind of make sense if it was just those five because those five are the ones that went outside to do the chores Yeah, so and like had the oldest sister gone out with them, which she had been kidnapped to would she be missing too? Like probably yeah, yeah
00:42:16
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. It's just, it's very much one of those things where I was like, no, they were absolutely kidnapped. But I'm like, but then you have like all of these people over here saying they found bodies, but other fire, like current fire departments and stuff are like, no, they didn't even look through the house. Yeah. Like. There's cursory. Yeah. Yeah. So which is it? I don't know. And did these people actually see the kids later or did they not? Yep.
00:42:38
Speaker
Especially the person who like the waitress that saw them in town. Mm-hmm. Like wouldn't you think it was weird? Yeah. Like wouldn't you have on Christmas morning, right? Mm-hmm. And this happened Christmas Eve night? Yeah. At one in the morning the fire started and at 1230 Jenny had gone down to answer that phone call. The children were not downstairs. She thought they were upstairs. But the lights were on and the curtains were open. I don't like it. Mm-hmm.
00:43:05
Speaker
And it makes you wonder, you know, you know, she's been beating herself up for a whole life of, why didn't I just go check on them? Why didn't I just go make sure they were in bed? 100%. Cause you always think, well, why didn't you? Why didn't you go check on them? It was a normal fucking night. I didn't want to wake them up. Christmas is tomorrow. They're trying to sleep. Like, you know, that phone call was already annoying enough. Like fuck off. Right. I want to know what that was about.
00:43:30
Speaker
I did see one thing that said investigators claim they found the woman who called and she really did say it was just a wrong number. But I don't know. You never know. I mean, I guess you wouldn't want to wake her up on purpose. So I don't know if it's part of like the plan. Yeah. But I'm like, are you just drunk calling people? Like, you know, but that's that's another weird thing to me. I just fucking realized that she got a phone call at twelve thirty.
00:43:58
Speaker
She did. Who? Then at what time? When did you cut the fucking phone line? Did they cut the phone line? I just thought of that. Oh my gosh. Oh, that's yucky. Oh, I feel yucky. Because their phone line was cut.
00:44:10
Speaker
Oh, I don't like that. So someone had to have cut. So in the middle of the fucking night, after 1230, between 1230 and 1 a.m., someone had cut their power line. Because we don't know what time the men were stealing the equipment. They never said when that was. So a neighbor could have very well been like, oh, those fucking guys, I'm going to call the police on them in the morning, you know? But like, did they steal it earlier in the night? Like, because if they did, then who the fuck cut the phone? Yeah, they wouldn't have been able to reach it.
00:44:41
Speaker
The hell? Oh my gosh, Shannon. I feel like. That's crazy. And the one witness saying that he saw someone throwing fireballs onto the roof, like. Yeah. Who could that have been? Was it those two guys stealing the equipment, trying to have a like, Oh no, we were just stealing stuff. We weren't throwing fireballs at the house. Right. But then had been hired to throw fireballs at the house and stuff. Like. Could be. And make it so the cars didn't run. And yeah. Oh, I don't like that. Nope.
00:45:12
Speaker
So yeah, there's just so much of this that I'm just like, none of that makes sense. None of that makes sense. It makes me wonder like, if this had happened in present day, like what more we could have found out or what more could have been done or... I don't, because there's so many of these cases that because they happened so long ago without the technology that we have now, that you're like, what happened? Yeah. You know? Like we'll never have answers. Never.
00:45:35
Speaker
Yep, I've got a list of things I'm asking to start our family are right up there. Yeah. Just be like, we're going to sit down and have a true crime talk. Okay. That's all I need to find out everybody. So for real, have a true crime circle up in heaven and you know, it's all these fucking white girls. Yeah.
00:45:54
Speaker
yeah so i mean that's definitely spooky i know i'm like it's not scary but it's one of those like what the fuck yeah exactly it's scary in the way of like yeah because like i would
00:46:09
Speaker
My children are inside! Yeah. And I can't get in the house because the ladder's missing. I can't obviously climb the side of the house to get in there. My trucks won't start. My trucks that I would have used to climb through the window won't start. I would lose my mind. I would, yeah. Fucking lose my shit. Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:25
Speaker
And 45 minutes for the house to go down. That's 45 minutes of you standing there screaming for your children hoping that they answer you. Not hearing a single thing. Not hearing a sound. Which they could have perished earlier in the fire if the smoke had killed them. Yeah.
00:46:42
Speaker
but were they even in the house? Cause a lot of people were saying like, Oh, well how could they have taken them out of their beds? You know, like they didn't. Yeah. I don't think they did. Cause like, as far as I'm aware, I don't know. Maybe I have to look more into it. Maybe there's more books or something on this and stuff, but like everything that I was seeing online, the older sister didn't say anything about, Oh, well they came back in and I just stayed on the couch. Cause I was already sleeping. Like she didn't say anything about anything, you know? And I'm like,
00:47:09
Speaker
Maybe they just weren't interviewed well enough. Like, just... I don't know. It seems like authorities weren't really doing their jobs, so I wouldn't be surprised. No. And it's always these little towns where the police are like, no, everything's fine. Which, and again, that's a thing of, did the police just not care? Because they were in the mafia's pockets. Mm-hmm. And it was Christmas morning. Like, they didn't want to be there doing any of this. Like... Who does? Yeah. That's why you're a police officer. Are all of my true crime cases about Christmas?
00:47:39
Speaker
Because I've talked about, um, I've talked about Debbie, I've talked about John Bonet. Yeah. Have I done any other true crimes? I can't remember right now. But yeah, those three have been about Christmas time. Like Christmas day. The fuck's my problem? Bad things happen at Christmas time, I guess. I'll find one that's not Christmas next time, guys. Unless it's like Christmas time and then- Yeah, then that's different. Yeah, it's fine. But this is one, like, I know I've said it a few times that, like, there are a couple that haunt me. This is one that haunts me.
00:48:08
Speaker
Debbie haunts me, the solder children haunt me. I really want to know what happened to John Bonet. I don't want to say she haunts me as much. It's so sad and I feel so bad for her. But I personally think I know what happened. Exactly. So like, it doesn't haunt me as much. Oh, I did. I did the other family. They went on vacation. Crap. They went on vacation. The British family and their daughter went missing. Oh, yeah. I can't think of her name right now because I just want to say John Bonet.
00:48:36
Speaker
Madeline McCann yes yes yes yeah oh and uh there was something the other day talking about how they found some new DNA evidence in the John Bonet Ramsey case and I've heard jack diddly about it what the fuck I don't know they were straight up just like oh yeah we found this new DNA evidence and we think it's the killers
00:48:55
Speaker
okay and they haven't released anything about it they haven't compared it with anything yet no and there was some girl a little while ago who was like i believe i'm madeline mccain and she did the dna test and it wasn't her yeah so yeah i've seen that a couple different times yeah so i did one that wasn't christmas you did well they were on vacation what time what holiday were they on vacation for let me see see if i can find her real quick
00:49:22
Speaker
That'd be so funny if it was Christmas time. Great. April 28th for the vacation. Not Christmas. That's good. Ha ha! I didn't do a Christmas one, guys. But...
00:49:32
Speaker
Yeah, there's just quite a few. I'm still working on another one, but that one is so long from every, like all the information they have, because it happened just a few years ago. And so there's a lot of, oh, this evidence here and this evidence here and this and that and stuff. That one is so intriguing to me. I think I know what happened. A lot of people think they know what happened and they can't prove it. So, yeah.
00:49:57
Speaker
okay yeah but we'll we'll get there when we get there one day so anyway thank you yes i know i feel so bad because it's so hard because it's like these are so sad what happened to them and stuff and like i
00:50:13
Speaker
I just- It is interesting though.
Reflections on True Crime Fascination
00:50:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like thank you is the wrong way to say it, but thank you. And it's weird too because I'm like, oh my gosh, all of this is so intriguing and so interesting and everything, but I also feel bad because these are people's lives and stuff. And so I don't want it to be like this whole like, oh, here's all this. But I also want people to know what is in my head all the time too, you know? Because I genuinely- Okay.
00:50:37
Speaker
When TikTok was doing that hilarious, stupid, I didn't get it entirely thing like, oh, how often does your boyfriend think of the Roman Empire? The Sotter family, Debbie, some of these other cases, they're my Roman Empire. I think about them often. It's like something will happen, I'll see something and be like, oh my gosh, yeah, the Sotter children. And immediately start thinking of that again.
00:50:58
Speaker
It's funny. It's just so weird to me. I think we all have that thing that we just randomly think about all the time and compare everything to. But yeah, when I started doing this one, I completely forgot it was Christmas. I totally did not realize it was Fayetteville. Yeah, that was funny. I was like, what the fuck is happening there? It seems like the police didn't change much in the next couple decades. No. We'll let the FBI come. Yeah.
00:51:25
Speaker
Why not? It's not like it costs them anything. I just don't get it. I don't get it. Unless the police and the fire marshal fully believe that they fucked something up and they didn't want the FBI to realize it. Or that they were dirty. Yeah. Cause I'll never, I will never get over the fact that all these people said we found these bodies. Where are they? Well, we gave them to Morris.
00:51:49
Speaker
Why? Why were they not turned over to the coroner's office? Exactly. I mean, yeah, I know it was 45 and stuff, but you're telling me that a coroner didn't come out to pick up the bodies? Yeah, they should have. They should have? Why was it given to the fire marshal and not like a police chief or something? Like...
00:52:07
Speaker
I just, I'm so confused, yeah. Makes no sense. And George and Jenny, to the end of their days, believed their children were still alive. Sylvia, to the end of her days, believed that they were still alive. I would have loved to have talked to Sylvia. Right. Like, I went and looked up her obituary and she seemed like the sweetest lady, like, and I mean, obituary is obviously trying to make people sound like, you know, but like, from, they were, said like, she filled her children's lives with construction paper, tape and warm cookies. And I was like, I love it.
00:52:36
Speaker
I love that. I love that so much. So sweet. I would have loved to have chatted with her. I'm glad they didn't lose all of their children, but I don't know, it's almost worse. Losing half your children. Once at war, I don't know what happened to him. I should have Googled that, but I didn't know what happened to Joe. Imagine coming home after the war and just being like, well, I don't know where my five siblings are.
00:53:02
Speaker
Yeah, that would suck. John probably feeling guilty because he told police in the first that he went up to the attic but was unable to get up there and just, you know, but then later said, no, I was only calling up the stairs because the stairs were on fire. Like, you know, as a big brother, you're 22 years old and your five year old little sister could have been in that attic.
00:53:23
Speaker
You're gonna make me cry. I know, like I just, it's heartbreaking to think, cause I'm like, cause I don't have any younger siblings, but to sit there and think, like, you know, I mean, I have Chanel, but like, I didn't grow up with her as a child, you know? Like I didn't, I wasn't there for her birth and stuff, but I was there for my nieces and nephews. I was five when my oldest nephew was born, okay? So like, yeah, I just, I don't know. I just, yeah. You can look at that.
00:53:51
Speaker
I don't know. Like it's just heartbreaking to think that like because you know these families are just plaguing themselves. What if I'd done this differently? What if I'd done this differently? What if I'd done this differently? What if I'd made them go to bed on time? What if I didn't make them do the chores that night? What if I checked on them? Yeah.
00:54:07
Speaker
Everything. Everything you can possibly think of for the rest of your life. And they lived pretty long lives. She lived until she was 1989 is when she died. I don't know what year she was born, so I don't know how old she was. And Sylvia's obituary mentioned her siblings. That was very part of her.
00:54:30
Speaker
Crazy that she remembers that. That one sucks. Two years old, she says the first thing she remembers was the fire and her parents screaming and her father crying. What a fun memory. That's so cruel. I go and think back of my oldest memory. I know I have memories before that, but the first thing I think of is like, oh, it's the oldest thing I remember is fucking sobbing at the Fiddler's Halloween carnival.
00:54:57
Speaker
with my mom being that head on the table, you know? And thinking that she was dead. Like, poor little me to know what was coming. Just like... Not like that, luckily, but you know. The foreshadowing. The foreshadowing, but like...
00:55:13
Speaker
That would be dramatic. Yeah, I was sobbing. They had to go get her, make her come out and show me she was okay. But like, yeah, when I sit there and I think back, I'm like, nope, that's one of the first things I remember. Or sitting and watching, don't know why, don't judge me. I was like five or maybe younger. I don't know. It was before I was going to like kindergarten or whatever, watching Barney wrapped in a poster.
00:55:39
Speaker
and my oldest sister, Lene, going off to high school. Nice. And she's like, okay, bye. Why didn't you do it for Barney? I watched Barney. Rapped in a poster? Okay, maybe not in that part of it. I was like naked, wrapped in a poster. I need to say that part. Yep. Was it a Barney poster? I think so. Nice. Yep. Anyway, completely off topic. We need derails. Completely derails. As we always do, but.
00:56:01
Speaker
I stayed on pretty good this time, so. It's pretty good storytelling. Yes, thank you. Well, we hope you enjoyed this episode of Spooktober. And we'll see you next week. See you next week. Have a great time. Have a great time.
00:56:17
Speaker
Thank you guys so much for listening to this week's episode. Let us know what you think by leaving a comment or sending us an email at bmoviebashpodcast at gmail.com. You can listen to our episodes on all your favorite podcast platforms, including Spotify, Stitcher, Google, Apple, Amazon Music, and Audible, or you can find the video versions on our YouTube channel. If you want to support the podcast, you can find our coffee link on our anchor page. Make sure to like, subscribe, and tell your friends!
00:56:44
Speaker
Have you been wanting to make your personal care routine more eco-conscious? Well, allow me to introduce you to Wild. Wild is a natural deodorant that actually works and is great for both your body and the planet. Wild is made from natural ingredients, is vegan and cruelty free, and doesn't have things like aluminum parabens or harsh chemicals that can irritate your skin. Wild is actually made with bamboo. Seriously, what can't bamboo do at this point? And ingredients that you'll recognize like shea butter and baking soda.
00:57:11
Speaker
My favorite part about Wild is the fully sustainable design. When you first order your deodorant, you'll get to pick out a cute aluminum case, and after that, you order refills to go inside. I have the aqua colored case right now. For those of you who know me personally, of course I chose the aqua case, but they have a ton of different colors you can choose from.
00:57:29
Speaker
They even have patterned cases, including a limited edition one right now with little wiener dogs on it that is super adorable. They have lots of great scents like mint and eucalyptus or coconut dreams, and they even have a little mini sample pack of deodorant that you can order so you can try different scents before committing to one.
00:57:46
Speaker
If Wild deodorant sounds like something you might want to try, then go wild today! With a special discount of 25% off your first order when you use code judging you at checkout. Go to wearewild.com and use code judging you at checkout. Enjoy!