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The Death of Mica Acacia Francis, Part 22
64 Plays1 month ago
We had a plan for today's episode, and it went out the window! We talk about Joy's trip to Myrtle Beach, and our phone call with a certain embattled pastor who thinks he's the smartest man in the room... but is actually just super manipulative and flailing.
We'll be discussing the newest allegations and court filings against John Paul Miller next week.
Warnings for domestic abuse, suicide, coercive control, sexual abuse, financial abuse, religious abuse, child abuse, physical abuse, mental health.
Check out our YouTube Channel! Fixate Today: Grey Matters
Mica's Law and Mica's List - Provided by Luna Shark Media
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Transcript
Introduction and Focus on Micah Francis
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Fixate Today Gone Tomorrow. I'm Nikki and I'm here with my Aunt Joy. We are two neurodivergent ladies who obsess about various topics. Joy is autistic and I have ADHD and we are letting our hyperfixations fly.
Myrtle Beach Trip and JP Miller
00:00:15
Speaker
Today we are fixating on the death of Micah Francis.
00:00:30
Speaker
but Welcome back, everybody. are doing a Micah episode today. um Joy actually a few weeks ago spent some time in Myrtle Beach, had some really interesting interactions, and then we went live on our YouTube channel for the first time and talked about it.
00:00:48
Speaker
um But we figured we would hop on here and talk about it on the podcast also because we did there's a lot that happened yeah so yeah um there there have been a lot of updates in the case in the last couple weeks too so i think next week we'll do just kind of a straightforward updates episode but this time we just wanted to talk through the myrtle beach trip and then a phone call we had with jp miller all right exciting let's get going Joy spent some time in Myrtle Beach a couple weeks ago.
00:01:19
Speaker
um we talked about it on our YouTube channel, but we figured we would hop on the podcast and also share some of her experiences. Yeah. So I got, um, I got a chance to go to Myrtle beach. Um, my mom and I travel a lot and it was a good place for, to bring my mom. And, to um, I wanted to take some pictures and see some of this stuff, uh, you know, while I was out there. So, and I had no real plan.
00:01:42
Speaker
So the very first day i got in my car trying to figure out, okay, what do I want to see? And I thought, well, okay, I have JP's address. So I'll just start with going and, you know, looking at his house and neighborhood.
00:01:53
Speaker
and something I don't know whatever came me I decided like what the heck I'm just gonna go ring the doorbell and I did um and he answered and he oddly agreed to talk to me which like I didn't expect at all and that's not what I was ah planning on however was very interesting so I um We talked for about an hour.
00:02:17
Speaker
i i mean, i he asked if I was, you know, pro him or against him. And I'm like, Jeff, yeah, don't think anyone's pro you. I don't think that's a thing.
00:02:29
Speaker
I mean, i I clear about the things that I done didn't that I thought he did wrong that I didn't think he was being honest about that. It was a pleasant but not pleasant.
00:02:42
Speaker
I mean, I confronted him and I i i believe I asked the hard questions. And that being said, like, I didn't have anything prepared. i didn't think I was going to be talking to this man. So, I mean, and I'm not a like a reporter for anything. So, um but it was really interesting conversation.
00:03:00
Speaker
And I said this on our YouTube channel and I got in really big trouble for it. So I'm going to try it. You didn't get in big trouble. People chose not to hear what we were trying to say.
00:03:12
Speaker
So I'm going to. Some people. Some people were wonderful and did and like got it and were great. And it was awesome. Some people were like, you know, internet people who pick up on one thing and they're like, okay, everybody. Nope. I'm done. I'm over it. a the vi Yeah. And I, and so, and Nikki and I've talked about this, like, do you,
00:03:30
Speaker
So I'm going to say like one thing I said that really, um I think upset people, but well, number one, everyone's like, oh my God, i fear for your safety. Why did you go in there? And I'm like, quite honestly, but like I, like I was fully, I didn't feel in any way physically in danger. Like if, if JP, this man who's um under close FBI investigation decides to assault me in his front room of his house, that'd be pretty dumb. um It'd be dumb and it would be for sure he'd be in in jail right now. like He'd be arrested.
00:04:04
Speaker
I felt like there was no threat of physical harm. And that's where I said, I'm a trusting person and trusted him. First of all, I shouldn't say that. I didn't say I trusted him. I said, I'm a trusting person and did not think anything would physically harm me.
00:04:17
Speaker
yeah Of course, that blew up to be like, I'm a trusting person. I believed everything he said. And that was not the case. Right. There was another thing I said, which was. And this, I, I think that what JP does is there is lying involved, but there's a lot of word manipulation and and dancing around language and what he's asked more than we realize. And I think that's something you can only really get by sitting down with him and talking with
Church Experience and Observations
00:04:53
Speaker
him for a while. Yeah.
00:04:54
Speaker
Yeah. Because, yeah and I'll give an ah an example. um You know, I have, obviously we have thoughts about him and money laundering and that being something that's going on.
00:05:06
Speaker
And so I asked him like, okay, like money laundering, let's talk about money laundering. And he's like, what is that?
00:05:16
Speaker
And so we never even got to the point where I got to say like, are you, laundering money because it was like explain to me what money laundering is like i don't even know he's like manipulates words but also like can twist words as a distraction i guess i don't to say like twist meanings of words which i think he does too but in that instance he was like i'm gonna take what you said so it looks like i'm engaged with the question you asked me about i'm gonna avoid that and completely but i'm never gonna actually say the lie of no
00:05:51
Speaker
i Right. And so that's what I was trying to get across. And again, then people were, um you know, like, oh, my God, you were so dumb. You were pulled into it. You're going to get in the cult. And I'm like, that's not at all what I was trying to say. I'm not saying the guy doesn't lie.
00:06:06
Speaker
But I think there's a bit of truth to everything he says. So maybe technically. He isn't lying, quote unquote. And the thing is, that comes to like your definition of lying. Like I would say that is lying. Well, yeah. And I guess I'm Like using, manipulating a kernel of truth is like, but that's, I mean, I think that's where a lot of people's like, that and I don't even want to say misunderstanding. It was a choice for a lot of people to not understand. Well, and he pointed out something that that really made that sink in, which I haven't even got to the point of telling you guys I went to church with him. But when he was, at and
00:06:42
Speaker
speaking at church, he was speaking about some time he had like he had gone to court recently and he said, I should have been a lawyer. And it clicked in my head. That's exactly what it is.
00:06:54
Speaker
He is able to use his words like a a lawyer or a politician where maybe they're not exactly lies, but they're definitely not the full truth. Like he used, right. Like it's like, if you look at words he's saying in a different way, it's like, oh, he's telling you what we need to know.
00:07:20
Speaker
And I think, again, i think that's something you can only really understand if you sit down and talk to him for a while. ah i mean, maybe ah but I'm sure other people understand that, but it really became clear to me.
00:07:34
Speaker
And I wanted to get that point across. um And unfortunately, then I think everyone, what they stopped hearing, they stopped listening to me at the point where i I said, well, I don't think, I don't think everything he's saying is a lie.
00:07:46
Speaker
um so Look, and and also remember by the end, people were like, if people had, like, there were a couple people, three people in particular. So don't say everything. Okay, I know. um There was, I'm sorry.
00:07:59
Speaker
But there were no, I just don't want you to feel like everybody was getting up because there really weren't. It was like a couple of particular people that left before we got through everything. And by the end, a lot of people who were pushing back on us were like, oh, I get it.
00:08:13
Speaker
You know, they were like, you got me back. I understand better. Like and so that's. Yeah, I think that's what's important is like the people who were particularly unkind in how they were pushing back. Some people push back and were like just respectful and fine and whatever.
00:08:31
Speaker
The unkind people left before they could hear everything. And so they didn't have the full story. They made up their minds and so be it. So so that's, I guess, the first thing that happened while I was there.
00:08:42
Speaker
Um, so then, later that day i went over and I was taking pictures. ah So, um, JP and I did, uh, he texted me some documents and some pictures that I like hadn't been out there in the public yet. So, um,
00:09:00
Speaker
So he had gotten my, my texts. So we had each other's number. And so later I went to the church and I was taking pictures out there and stuff. And, um and I'm like, he texted me like, it was nice talking to you this morning. And I, you know, kind of said like, okay, just want to let you know, I'm out at the church taking pictures. i Like just, I don't know, just letting them know that.
00:09:19
Speaker
um And one thing, and and then he invited me to come to church with him the next day. um And like, I wasn't going to turn down that opportunity. right mean like, I want to go see the church and I want to see this. So yes, I went to church. Now, again, some people I think like, are like, you went to meet him and then like, I'm like, okay, no, you wouldn't turn down the chance to go into church and like kind of get a, like all this.
00:09:49
Speaker
Absolutely. Especially after we've been talking about this for almost a year. Like, yeah, I want to see what this is about and see how I feel there. So I did go to church um the next, or the next day.
00:10:03
Speaker
And it was interesting. And, and there's things about it. You know, it's smaller. I could see the classrooms, you know, he explained to me that Micah decorated all the classrooms for the school. It was school is a lot smaller than yeah,
00:10:17
Speaker
um and You know, i did see that the that the church had been like pretty much stripped of any of decor lighting that had all been completely stripped out.
00:10:29
Speaker
And I think it's I think since you were there, it did sell. Well, and that's we talked about that because I did ask, um why was the church stripped of everything? Like, and why are you still living?
00:10:42
Speaker
meeting there Yeah. And so, yeah. And which I still think there's more to understand about that. But ah yes, he did say like, yeah, I think we're going to try to sell it He said something about their i don't two there's a good a group of older ladies who, I don't know, are keeping things going or if they're buying the church. I'm not sure what the whole group of older... It's one of those things now I wish I remembered what he said because I feel like that was some kind of...
Lunch at Lumber River State Park
00:11:09
Speaker
Something I should have... There's significance. But he did say at the time that he thought they were good that you know they were thinking about selling it and and he blamed it because...
00:11:18
Speaker
um The protesters are out there, so we cannot rebuild, you know, my church, like, you know, internally rebuild a parish. So blame that on the protesters. So yeah. And then, I mean, he it got apparently sold like a couple days later. So yeah. Yeah.
00:11:33
Speaker
Another thing people did not want to hear me say is that like when I was at church, a lot of the people there were just nice, normal people. And I, you know, it's easy to think all of them are these evil people who,
00:11:49
Speaker
are standing by JP. And i' I'll say a couple of things. One is that I don't, I don't think those people are watching and following the stories um and right thing online.
00:12:02
Speaker
And I had never really thought about that because it seems so obvious that, that that is what is going on and all these allegations. But if you never looked online and saw them, you don't really understand.
00:12:16
Speaker
I could see how you're not even fully aware. And I could also see then how with the protesters, you're, you're just getting JP's um view on them and the view being, and if so, yeah if you're behind, if if you're one of them, you know, nothing about, you know, how much deeper this is going in the investigations, but you are seeing these protesters who are yelling at you before you go to church, right?
00:12:41
Speaker
Um, and while he was, I was there, he did say, we probably will be going to court in the next, um, another court date coming up, don't know, in a week or so, which is, I think, I believe the court date that we had just recently heard about.
00:12:54
Speaker
yeah And he, I think they said there was about 40 people who, um, ah testified on his, um on his behalf. And while I was at Mass service. Service. Service. i have a hard time with that one.
00:13:10
Speaker
That's okay. They, he did tell them. He did tell them that was, that was upcoming and that he was going to need them to, or, yeah you know, tell them to be prepared to testify. So I don't know. Yeah. and And my whole take on like, i I think there is, what's it called? The sunk cost fallacy that a lot of these people have invested so much time and probably money into this church and to JP that it's,
00:13:36
Speaker
easier to not pay attention to the stuff going on around it and be like, and just, you don't have to admit anything in that case. Do you know what i mean? Yeah. um So I think there's part of that. There is also church. Nice is a thing.
00:13:48
Speaker
Like you get people to come to your church because you're nice. And I'm not saying people aren't, um that's not to say that some of the people you met aren't nice, normal people. It's, it just like not a again, how we always say not everything's black and white. Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:03
Speaker
The little old lady who thinks JP might be adorable sitting in in the back pew every week is not going to necessarily care to listen to our podcast that's talking about things we suspect.
00:14:16
Speaker
It's going to be a lot easier. And that doesn't mean she's bad. Right. Right. And, you know, I am not religious, but I do see this is their community. These are their friends. I mean, when you go to church, it's not just about being there to support the pastor.
00:14:31
Speaker
It's about like, this is your... right This is your community. Yeah. and And maybe they're there for each other. Maybe they're not as much there for JP. And they could also be in the thing of like the thought of if something happens to JP, there it goes there is their community.
00:14:46
Speaker
Yes. Yes. and And I do believe it was a church that, again, for all of its failings and evil behind the scenes, I mean, I do think they did a lot of fun things and they, you know, they enjoyed each other as people. And again, I Most of them seem like really nice.
00:15:03
Speaker
lot of them older, elderly people. and And the other thing that's hard is we... we We can't be saying both that we think some of the people who attend the church are being taken advantage of financially and emotionally and then also be like, but they're bad because they go to the church. Like, that's not a fair. I think I think we have to nuance the like, not necessarily the people whose names we know. Those are that's a different story. But the people whose names we don't know who are still attending, I think there has to be more nuance than just good and bad.
00:15:36
Speaker
Yeah. And and then and being face to face with them. I did learn that. I'll tell one, um, Okay, but this is not supposed to be what our... We actually have a whole agenda but for our podcast, but but I do want to share these things. yeah There was one thing, and this was a something I thought was very meaningful, or actually it was something I overheard.
00:15:58
Speaker
And it was ah Sprinkler guy. What's his name? The guy. Robert Local or Lochal? I still don't know. Yeah, that dude who was wearing the exact same shirt, interestingly. That's hilarious. I think that's so funny.
00:16:11
Speaker
but um Which is probably exactly why I knew who it was. But i did over here and he I did overhear him talking to um some church members who must have like gone away. i don't know if he moved away or just hadn't been going to church for a while and had come back.
00:16:29
Speaker
And I overheard them talking and they knew nothing about any of this. Right. Like they, he was, mean, in fact, he was explaining it and I was overhearing him and he was like, and then there was, he talked about the whole sprinkler.
00:16:43
Speaker
Then they, but I just found that really interesting that. yeah Yeah. They had no clue what, Any of this was about that. And that was eye opening to me. yeah And again, that's where I thought about the fact, oh, yeah, we watch stuff about this. If you're listening to this podcast, you're you're you're keeping up. Yeah.
00:17:01
Speaker
Here's some old person. but And it's also like the algorithm of what you get on social media and like what you're you're being given for content by things outside your
Speculations on Church Activities
00:17:11
Speaker
means, too. Right. Right.
00:17:13
Speaker
So anyways, that was one that was that was the the nice side of what I saw there. I also saw some things that I think were very fishy, very fishy. And I,
00:17:25
Speaker
Yeah. I don't even know. I haven't really talked about this because I, because I might be being crazy, but um there was a little thing that I noticed. And that was that there was, there's notebooks, orange notebooks on it, on all the chairs.
00:17:40
Speaker
This might be normal. I'm Catholic. So, you know, we, my church does not give you things to write with. I used to bring my own notebook or i have a Bible app on my phone that you can type in notes.
00:17:52
Speaker
Like people bring their own stuff to write notes. I don't know. That's my experience. It just seemed weird to me. yeah It seemed a little weird. um And I asked about that. and And, you know, the answer, of course, was that, you know, people, that they just like people to be able to take notes during mass, during service. And, know,
00:18:09
Speaker
It was one of those things after, because you know I've always felt like the church is being used as a way to help people communicate, as a means um for some people who are doing some really bad things, um like like bad crimes, um organized criminal groups.
00:18:27
Speaker
It's very hard for them to communicate with each other. And I think somehow they've been using the church differently. As a way like and ah ah to enable that communication. Yeah. on our you know On the YouTube channel, we talk a lot. we I think we have three videos about JP's sermons and how he uses that word manipulation.
00:18:45
Speaker
And could he be speaking directly to someone who then is able to respond in an orange notebook somehow? Yes. And to, yeah, leave information that needs to be left or drop off points or like, I don't even, you know, needs to be smuggled. I don't know what, I don't know what these people.
00:19:07
Speaker
Right. Where, when they're going to meet somebody, whatever it is. If we leave these notebooks out, that's like the perfect way. Right. And there's this really little thing that I might be getting absolutely crazy on, but.
00:19:21
Speaker
in that So it was all chairs. um and And JP kind of walked me over to an area kind of for me to sit, i guess. And, you know, he said, um Susie's going to be sitting here and kind of showed me which chair to sit in.
00:19:41
Speaker
And the chair that he sat in had a box of tissues. right under it. And it was the only place in the church that there was a box of tissues. That's what I was going to ask. Did any other, cause I know like, like when churches have like memorial services, they'll put boxes of tissues out for everybody. So i was wondering if maybe they were on all the seats or all the rows, but it sounds like not.
00:20:01
Speaker
Not that I saw. I mean, they were certainly not everywhere. Yeah. And then, I mean, I was like, well, I don't know there was just something sort of weird about that. And because at at the moment I'm like, like, does he do his thing and start like crying?
00:20:12
Speaker
is that why they're there? I did. He did sniffle throughout the entire service. So maybe he's just got allergies. I was going to say, we've seen him in like interviews and stuff. He sniffles a lot.
00:20:23
Speaker
He, got and I can, I can vouch. He sniffles. He didn't use any of the tissues, but like conspiracy minded me now in retrospect, I'm like, Could that notebook have been like could because he it's not like he sits like he wasn't preaching and it wasn't like he sat like right up front or anything. I mean, he sat intermixed with the congregation.
00:20:46
Speaker
So is that something that directs? i don't know. Getting very conspiracy. conspiratorial here, but don't know. Could that be saying, okay, you sit here and could that notebook have things in it that he needs to receive?
00:21:03
Speaker
um I also did notice the money boxes or like the donation boxes around the church. I noticed at least one or two. And again, kind of makes me think, okay, so you're money laundering because they make a big point about the thing that that they don't pass around a tray, you know, because they want people to be have their privacy when they're donating money. And I'm like, well, that goes both ways, right? If you're money laundering and you need an anonymity, there's boxes out there to put cash in.
Fair Bluff Visit and Realizations
00:21:34
Speaker
don't know. I will say like my church stopped doing the basket like passing covid like after COVID. So like I see, like I get that part of it, but like you're not wrong. right i mean i don't think thats yeah I don't think that that's an abnormal thing for a church to do.
00:21:52
Speaker
they and But they had specifically, they had it actually in one of their um online, explained it for, you know, like took the time to explain it, which I get. I mean, I i get it's normal thing, but then it's another means to an end. and You can see how, yeah, a normal thing could be used. yeah And then, so that was Mass.
00:22:12
Speaker
He showed the video of the new Dare to Care program. relaunch of the mission that was they they showed that there they did a whole lot of singing and um then there was quick sermon and then i mean it was really was surprised how short it was after after the service um i was invited to go to lunch so um i so i did get to meet actually backtrack while i was at church i got to meet susie she pretty much does so at church jp sat between me and susie Um, JP's dad was right and behind us. I got introduced to him. I never really talked to him.
00:22:48
Speaker
JP's mom was up near us. Um, she, she was, I did talk to her quite a bit. I met Mark Kaufman. He, uh, briefly at, at, at church trying to think of their, did I tell you any of the others?
00:23:02
Speaker
I think those were the mains what main, main ones that I, Yeah. I can't remember anybody else. You didn't meet Tricia. No, Tricia was there, but I never met her. Yeah. yeah she I didn't sit near her. so And I never met her.
00:23:16
Speaker
So I was invited to lunch afterwards, um which I was not expecting. And um I did. I went. um At lunch, it was it wasn't everyone. There was a couple people. i don't I'm guessing maybe they were the elders.
00:23:31
Speaker
And then Mark Hoffman was there. Yeah. Susie was there. His dad and mom were there. And I think that that couple, Yusuf and Salaman, I think.
00:23:42
Speaker
I don't know. And then the sister, once the like the lady. Yeah, yeah. they were that they were They were trying to market them as this this singing group that's touring. and Okay, well, oh and I don't even didn't even remember that. She did sing.
00:23:56
Speaker
I do remember she was like kind of one of the lead singers up there. Um, and but so they were at lunch. They were at a different table. I didn't, it didn't occur to me at first that that's who they were, but they were at a different table, um, with Wayne.
00:24:09
Speaker
Um, so i you know, I didn't really talk to them, but I did see them. Um, and yeah, I mean, lunch was about as normal as you could be. i mean, it was like, you know, showing each other their kids gymnastics meet and, um,
00:24:24
Speaker
you know it was It was pretty normal meal. um I did get to talk to Susie, and and this, I guess, is controversial. Susie just seems like a sweet, nice nice person to me. I don't know.
00:24:38
Speaker
I have a hard time seeing her as being a bad person. and i i don't know. um not Not to say she is. I know she's done some things wrong. yeah But she's if you sit down and meet her, She's just a really nice, sweet gal. yeah so And I felt really comfortable about it with her We talked about our kids. I mean, obviously, we didn't talk about the case much or any of that.
00:24:59
Speaker
So that was that um with my day with them. One of the more eye-opening things was then i drove to um I drove out to the Lumber River State Park and to Fair Bluff.
00:25:11
Speaker
And actually, I can't remember. Fair Bluff awesome. It's right on the border. I think Fair Bluff is North Carolina. I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure where the the line exactly cuts. but um So I went out there and that was...
00:25:26
Speaker
feel like that was more of an eye opener to me than even meeting everyone and being at church. It's a creepy place. yeah Like weird stuff's going down out there. um And it's not like when I went to the park, I'm like, this is not the peaceful, like Micah went out there because it's beautiful and peaceful.
00:25:45
Speaker
It was one of the creepiest places I'd ever been. And, um and There was the people who are walking in and out. It was not, the park was not crowded. and And you know what? In the summer, it's probably totally different, right? it has a different feel.
00:25:58
Speaker
Sure. because it ah Because I was out there, you know, in the winter. um It was still, it wasn't cold, but um and when I was walking, the people that were walking in and and I was passing, they weren't people who were out for a stroll in a park.
00:26:14
Speaker
ah And I mean, I know that i know i'm I'm very much stereotyping here. But I'm a pharmacist too. And when you're a pharmacist and there's certain people who walk up to you.
00:26:25
Speaker
You're trained to look for red flags. Yeah. You know, you just know certain things. And especially because I used to work in the Sudafed days where people would come up and buy their Sudafed. These people looked a lot like the people who used to come up and buy Sudafed.
00:26:39
Speaker
um ah People were walking in with backpacks or duffel bags, bags. I can understand if you're going on a hike, but a duffel bag, you're not bringing on a hike.
00:26:52
Speaker
i I wish I could have taken a picture. right didn't I wish I could take a picture to show you like, right no, these are not, they i they, and there I am out there in my like,
00:27:05
Speaker
little walking outfit. um And yeah, there was an odd guy like sitting in a boat, sort of half pretending to fish. ah There's just some weird stuff going on back there.
00:27:16
Speaker
So much so that I felt yeah scared. Like i I, I had to get out of there. I was like, this is so yeah. Everyone was like, oh my gosh, were you scared with JP? I'm like, no, but I was truly scared in that park. And I mean, I would love to have gone farther and to see the area you know where micah was a little bit more about it but i honestly i was too scared there i i i turned around i called you right afterwards and i'm like that was one of the scariest things so so there's some and and same with fair bluff that town there's some weird stuff there's some stuff going on there um there's more that we need to dig into
Phone Call with JP
00:27:53
Speaker
Yeah, I do. i And you'd said on the call, I think, like we need to do deep dive into this park. Yeah. So we'll be eventually getting to a video on it.
00:28:03
Speaker
That was kind of my my weekend. i Oh, I went to Crocodile Rocks, here um which was, i mean, wasn't really creepy. I expected some weirdness going on there.
00:28:16
Speaker
um I went early. So it was like the early crowds. It was like kind of a lot of old people. what And it's also a tourist destination. they're not going to be like up front with the and like uncomfortable, creepy things that we've read about.
00:28:29
Speaker
Yeah. It's a tourist place. And, you know, i and they, if there are creepy things going on, they are not blatantly. But I do, I will say that both when I spoke to Mark Kaufman and JP, they both kind of did a like, oh, you're going there or, oh,
00:28:46
Speaker
You went there? I don't know. I might have been reading into that a little bit. but well JP has gotten that reaction quite a bit, right? Of like, a pastor owns a bar. And so if in their eyes you're going to church, you're talking and you're being kind to people, they're like, oh, you're a church person, but you're going to a bar? that Like, i don't know, kind of the pot calling the kettle black. well And JP did tell me he Kind of along the lines of he's not allowed to go around the bar.
00:29:13
Speaker
i don't I don't know the exact allowed. I'm not sure if that that that was exactly the word. but And it sounds like he alluded to that. my I guess my big takeaway, two folds from like the whole thing.
00:29:24
Speaker
First of all is we have to keep in mind that there are regular normal people involved. And even, I don't know, everybody's a person. So regardless of...
00:29:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:38
Speaker
it just made me realize i don't want to be mean to be mean like i want the things i'd say to be very deliberate and to have meaning and sometimes being like petty mean yeah Kind of takes away from that. i Yeah.
00:29:54
Speaker
And I'll be a little snarky. I'll do all the same things I normally do. But I'm like, I never want to, like, I'm not going to write a script and be like, say this mean thing about this person. Yeah. um But number two, you straight asked him, is this person good? Is this person good? Is this person good?
00:30:11
Speaker
And all of the people that we've talked about that you asked him about that we are suspicious of, he said are good. Yes. Yes. And the people he's not fans of were the bad people. He said his dad was a bad guy.
00:30:28
Speaker
i i would yeah venture to guess there's some difficult relational things that. He was very noncommittal on Tom Winslow.
00:30:40
Speaker
He just. kind Yeah. He kind of that was kind of one of those he just sort of turned away from. He said Mark was good. ah um And ah he said, you know, Susie's a good person, which, again, like I in my heart believe that there's she may have done things wrong.
00:30:55
Speaker
I just can't see that this woman who married a paraplegic man and took care of him. for that many years, like in and of her, I don't, her heart, I don't think her heart is bad.
00:31:05
Speaker
I think she may have been corrupted by things. um Yeah. Yeah. And so i do want to watch, I guess there was an interview with Chris Skinner's sister in the last few weeks that i just haven't run into.
00:31:16
Speaker
um So i and I just keep forgetting to look for it. I've got about 15 things going on um at the same time. I have too many tabs open and I keep meaning to, do that. I opened my computer and then I'm like, no, I'm going to do that. I have to do this. And then I've forgotten why I opened the computer.
00:31:31
Speaker
Yeah. There's just so much. And there's so many different angles to go at. um I did, you know, like you said, there are some people in this involved who are just truly innocent. And, um and, and then there's a lot of people probably involved that we don't know we were even doing bad things.
00:31:46
Speaker
um Yeah. But, but I do know from talking to Susie that, There are kids involved. And and like there's families, I should say. that i mean, they're not necessari necessarily little kids, but there's families.
00:31:59
Speaker
And i don't know, matter what, i it's a bad situation. It's a terrible situation for them to have been put in. And I do want to make sure we're really conscientious of that. Because that is one thing she outright told me, is that, yes, their children are very much suffering and it's been an awful thing for them so and i think for us like we've we've pretty consistently done that like i yeah we don't use images with kids faces as much as we can avoid it um we i i don't even know the kids names besides logan who's an adult yeah jp's oldest son i don't know you know i and it's even when ah
00:32:42
Speaker
You know, in our videos about Susie and Chris, I tried really hard not to use pictures with the kids' faces. And you actually and stopped me from like, yeah, me being like, hey, these are public pictures, so I don't have to, you know, and you you actually stopped me. It's like, that's not right.
00:32:58
Speaker
Which, yeah, that would they may be public, but let's make our own choice in what we say. I mean, we did the same with the Frankie kids, right? When we did that. Yeah. And yeah, they don't get a choice in what's out there and what's not. So we can make the choice on our end to be like, all right, no kids. Kids are off the table.
00:33:18
Speaker
Yeah. And especially with Susie and having lost their husband. And we have to remember that that man was a father. Yeah. father those kids and it's a constant reminder of, you know, so that was one thing I learned. Second, I know I'm going to work harder to not say things on the internet that I would not be willing to say to somebody's face. And, um,
00:33:42
Speaker
Because I actually got to say things to people's faces that wasn't interesting. um And I'll be honest, like i said rough things to JP's face and he told me I could say you know anything he said.
00:33:53
Speaker
hes He told me I was open to share with anyone. And he said that to me, too. We did. And we aren't going to talk too much about this, like maybe another time. But ah he was willing to do a phone call with you, me and him.
00:34:06
Speaker
um And he said to me the same thing, that we could use whatever he said. And so I have been. And it's nothing I'm super comfortable releasing publicly.
00:34:20
Speaker
But, you know, we've got things that he said. And I'm going to, like, it's even something is in my notes that I'm looking at right now for when we get into the updates that he can find us. Yeah.
00:34:32
Speaker
But it's not public. so Yeah. Yeah. And to be honest, he stuck largely to his story, which I pointed out. And he's like, well, isn't does isn't that proof that my story is true?
00:34:46
Speaker
And I'm like, I don't know. Like, yeah. So, but then you catch some little things. I think that's where, like, so the story, okay, we've all heard it over and over again. But you catch a couple little things in there. And that, and that is what's interesting. And so,
00:35:03
Speaker
ah Yeah, we have one thing that was very interesting that he said. There's one thing i do want to say in the house. He had a wall of beautiful family photos that obviously Micah had yeah framed and put up.
00:35:20
Speaker
um And, ah you know, it was him with her, her and him and and all the kids. And, and don't know, that was just, it was just and like, it just set was a little window into her life. And I, yeah it, she had done, was fun to just sort of see how she decorated a house and stuff.
00:35:37
Speaker
But I did notice that there's one other thing that I don't even think I've said to you. um and When we were talking about something about honesty, at least on one one aspect of it, it wasn't the whole thing, but it was so it's one specific point.
00:35:51
Speaker
And I said, he said, I swear. And I said, you swear? Like, would you swear on your parents or your mother's life? And he said, I would swear on my children's life. You did tell me. Yeah. And i've i've I, which is part of the reason I actually do believe some things a little bit more, but also I've always been scared to say that out loud because,
00:36:12
Speaker
if I were his kids and then then there were lies. Yeah. As we know in how he told you, you couldn't talk anymore. He reads people really well. And I think really fast.
00:36:24
Speaker
And I think he probably picked that up about you that he could say that to you. So there's much weight, but he didn't say it to me. Yeah. It's still your kids. Like, I don't know. It's in the, he proactively offered up.
00:36:38
Speaker
I, I think he does love his kids. I mean, yeah. I mean, I don't think he's father of the year. Yeah, I was going to say, like, because I think we said this on the live. Like, we think he did love Micah. We think he did love his kids.
00:36:53
Speaker
How he shows that is horrible. And I also think he's super lonely. And that's why he let you in. yeah he And I think that was another thing in the live that was like me saying he's lonely doesn't mean I like him guys.
00:37:09
Speaker
Like I just said, like, I think he is. ah Yeah. Like I do think, I think he's pretty much a man stuck in his house. yeah all And he is obviously an extrovert.
00:37:20
Speaker
So that's, yeah, I do think, yeah, just part of it was just wanting to talk to someone. I think obviously you could see like, i don't know if you know me, I'm like, am Like, I see the good in every everyone.
00:37:32
Speaker
And he clearly saw saw that. Now, I say that, but I know that I am that way. I don't know. Like, I'm naive, but know I'm naive, which you can actually sometimes use to twist around Oh, yeah.
Church Finances and Structure
00:37:47
Speaker
i I mean, I use my hyperfixation into my self-awareness.
00:37:52
Speaker
I use that to my advantage. Like, I know that about myself and I use it. Like, why wouldn't you? why wouldn't you Right, right, right. So, I mean, i yeah I guess it goes both ways. Yes, he did know. I think that's why he talked to me. yeah He knew I wasn't going to be like hardcore. Yeah. And he knew it would hurt me. it would He knew would hurt me to tell me that I like that i upset his parishioners.
00:38:14
Speaker
He knew I could handle it if I just i said I upset him. But that's why he specifically said you hurt. So is there anything else about Myrtle Beach you wanted touch on that's the only i mean that's the only thing i can think of like right off the top of my head every like everything's a lot closer than i thought yeah um i always think myrtle beach is like at this huge touristy destination you go all over the place and it's like no it's like it's tiny I mean, I did go out to the beach and the pier.
00:38:44
Speaker
I swear there's one pier that pops up in everyone's pictures at the beach there where I guess DJ. I going to say that that same pier. Yeah. It's gorgeous. Of course. It is. And then in the area where Crocodile Rocks is was, you know, it was like but obviously a fun, cute tourist area.
00:39:02
Speaker
So yeah. so I think that's, I mean, that's all I can think of right now, but, but we did have a follow-up phone call because part of, so that was my experience, but because it was like, we are a combined channel, it's two of us. And I, I definitely told JP that, yep, I, you know, Nikki's half of my channel.
00:39:20
Speaker
um And that I would really like her to have the opportunity to speak to him so that we could give her perspective or she could give her perspective ah because we do think about things very differently. Yeah.
00:39:31
Speaker
And so I, you know, after Joy called me and said all these things going on, I was immediately like, I have to be the bad guy cop. Like, you have to stay good cop. I'm the bad cop. Blame me for all of the things that are going to bug him so we can kind of keep, i don't know, just I'm the bad cop.
00:39:46
Speaker
yeah I will say, I think if I was at the door with you, he wouldn't have let us in. I think if I knocked on the door myself, because i do think he's gifted in reading people. I don't think he would have spoken to me. yeah no i think he's reading people for sure yeah so i don't i don't think he doesn't like me let's say i'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing i'm happy he like i'm i'm happy that this person that that i think has done really bad things doesn't like me i'm cool with that but also i'm like oh no he doesn't like me need to be careful
00:40:22
Speaker
So, well, so we did like get a, which is good. So, so we got it. So he, we were both on the phone call. So it was all three of us talking. So actually, I want to start before that, because I think this is, so I, I really wanted to maintain that.
00:40:37
Speaker
almost a boundary, right? Like i you guys put me in a text chain and I was at my oldest kid's concert, a ah violin concert.
00:40:49
Speaker
And he was like, I can hop on a call right now. And part of me was like, okay, let's do it right. And then i was like, absolutely not. My priority is my kid. And, and I don't even know if this was like, i don't know. For me, it was like, I'm maintaining this.
00:41:02
Speaker
i I will hop on a call when I get home from this concert. I will also be done at nine to put my youngest kid to bed. And I really wanted to be like, you're not in charge.
00:41:15
Speaker
I'm not letting you run this. I'm setting these limits for myself. And that was where I started. But also it made him seem really lonely. It did.
00:41:26
Speaker
That was one of the parts that, yeah, that... That did make him seem lonely. Like, um I kind of want to talk to some. Yeah. how about right now? Even if they're going to give me the hard questions. So, anyways, go on. So, I just wanted to say that. And then he did ah wish my child luck at the so at the concert, which my child thinks is very funny now.
00:41:50
Speaker
I actually texted them while they were backstage. And I was like, you will never guess who I'm talking to while you're warming up.
00:42:00
Speaker
um all right moving on so yeah we um you know got on the call and i had just written out a couple of questions i really wanted to know about the church structure and church finance stuff um i talked to him about kind of like his definition of abuse um And so i get like, you know, he said how he's such he was the best husband. The only time he was, quote, abusive is when Micah was off her medication and he had to strong arm her type of answer.
00:42:37
Speaker
um One thing that I think caught him off guard was talking about my dad. So he he I thought that really knocked him for a minute. Yeah. So he was talking all about Micah and her mental health stuff. And I dropped the bomb of like, yeah, my dad was bipolar and died by suicide.
00:42:53
Speaker
And he was just like, oh,
00:42:57
Speaker
ah I he kind of softened with how he was talking about mental health after that about Micah's mental health, I thought. And it was so like, I don't I don't know for sure. It could have been just me.
00:43:10
Speaker
thinking that way but it felt like he was because he was like he's like she wouldn't take the medicate like he was mad about mental health stuff and then I kind of dropped that and he was then he was like oh okay and like softened a little bit but then kept saying things like you know you know how it is yeah and uh So that happened. um The other thing that this is why I think, first of all, i was like, he can read people, but I don't think he likes me.
00:43:39
Speaker
um I challenged him on some like church doctrine stuff. And I don't know that he liked number one, getting pushed back about his theology, but number two, that a woman was pushing back about his theology.
00:43:53
Speaker
Although you were pushing back on some hard things. Like I didn't even. and I know. I know you. It wasn't like it was like pushback with big words. Yes, but however, big words that is like theology 101 for somebody who's like, I was saying. know, like, yeah, for somebody who is pastor. Right, right, right, right.
00:44:13
Speaker
The pastor, the head pastor of a church should know some of this stuff. The way I know he read me like a book was I asked if his church was, and I hate, I can always trip over the words, egalitarian or complementarian.
00:44:29
Speaker
Yeah. See, I told you she used big words. And it's basically egalitarian is um equality between genders. Like there's not a hierarchy and like the man is above the woman in any sort of way.
00:44:42
Speaker
Complementarianism is um biblically the woman submits to the man and there's a whole unpacking of the word submit and it's it can be used wrong. It could be done correctly.
00:44:54
Speaker
There's that. We're not going to get into all that. However, We have heard him preach. We know his church is a compliment complementarianist church. We know he believes husbands submit to God, wives submit to their husband, children submit to... yeah We know that. We've heard him say... We've heard him express this.
00:45:13
Speaker
What he said to me was, first he said my church was teaching me wrong, which my pastor got a kick out of. um um But he said basically something along the lines of, well, the reason men have to submit to God is because they're not good enough or worthy for women and wives.
00:45:33
Speaker
Right. Yeah, this was really hard to follow. this Because it doesn't... There's nothing biblical. It is either they are equal. like In readings of biblical doctrine, it is they are equal or the men is like the head of the household.
00:45:48
Speaker
This is nothing. This is gibberish. Yeah. It sounded like gibberish. I was like, wait, it's because women are... I'll let you... yeah but Because women are better...
00:46:01
Speaker
Like men need God to be worthy of women is basically what he said. Like men can't be a good husband, like the best husband that wives and women deserve without God because they're so beneath women and women are so high elevated ah above them.
00:46:19
Speaker
And that's when I was for sure like, oh, you read that I'm like a Christian feminist and that's what you think I want to hear. You're trying to manipulate me by telling me the answer you think I want to hear.
00:46:34
Speaker
I've seen you preach, my dude. like And even that, even that I was like, I did the... yeah yeah Like, okay, buddy. here like This is... Yeah. This is rubbish. You know, I will say the one thing I felt at the end was...
00:46:52
Speaker
I didn't push back enough, but what I had to keep telling myself, and I got kind of confirmation from somebody we may be talking to in the future, um kind of a big deal, is this person told me like,
00:47:07
Speaker
Yeah, you're not a reporter. And I was like, I've never, I don't know, I've never talked to a person in the way we did to get, i don't know. So I wish in hindsight I had pushed back more, but I think he would have just shut down and not engaged. And also it's like,
00:47:26
Speaker
i He was being kind to me in the moment, and I know it was probably a tactic, but regardless, there was no reason for me to be like screaming down his throat or anything like that.
00:47:38
Speaker
and So that's just, I'm kind of conflicted about that. At the end, I said something like, I hope if you watch our content, you don't hate us. And that's actually been bugging me because I don't care. i wish I hadn't said that, but it was all I could think of to say to end it.
00:47:52
Speaker
Yeah, it is different when you're talking to a person face-to-face. Like, not face-to-face. When you're actually talking to a person. Because, yeah. No matter they're an evil wife killer.
00:48:04
Speaker
i don't know. You make little jokes. And, you know, like, it just happens in some ways. Plus, we did want to, I mean, with you know, you're thinking about pushing back more. mean, we did want to keep him talking, too.
00:48:15
Speaker
Because... right Again, sometimes people, um when they're just comfortable and they're just talking, let things slide or slip bad right um right that you actually maybe can get more out of. um And there was one comment that really rep you know that really came out during I thought was yeah very meaningful. That was more like something that slipped out. And was like, hmm.
00:48:40
Speaker
So, but. Yeah. And so that was like, it we talked for an hour. i don't know. i i I left feeling confirmed in everything we think.
00:48:51
Speaker
Agreed. And i I don't think that was obviously not his intent. He wanted us to. You know, he wanted us to like him and be on his side. But the re and and you know the other reason I think he doesn't didn't like me is he didn't text me to tell me he wasn't going to talk to me again.
00:49:09
Speaker
Yeah. You know, in theory, I could text him right now.
00:49:15
Speaker
I won't. so think If he's lonely enough, though, he may. Right. Even if you're like evil and saying bad things, if he's lonely enough, he might just want some. Oh, the other couple of things.
00:49:26
Speaker
I think he was disingenuous about the structure of like the elder team. Like he basically said there's a group of elders who are above him and he's basically follows their lead.
00:49:39
Speaker
And I totally think it's the opposite. I think he's the head pastor and. um I think probably the intention was having a team of elders for accountability, you know, and that's that's good. you want You want a group of people to be like, that's a bad idea. And to be like, okay, I trust you, that's a bad idea. That's the kind of in theory what an elder board would do for a head pastor.
00:50:01
Speaker
um So I don't believe that at all. I think he's in fully control of the elder team. Yeah, and he's he's manipulative enough that yeah I think he can... Let them be in control on the little things so they feel like they're in control. just going to say. but yeah But the big things.
00:50:17
Speaker
Yeah.
Suspicions of Human Trafficking
00:50:18
Speaker
I do think he'll do anything Charles Randall says, however. I did not meet Charles Randall at all. um I will say we're going through who's good, who's bad. He did say Charles Randall is a good guy.
00:50:30
Speaker
I mean, he said like the best guy he's in the entire world. so though And that also left because he said that on the call. And that left me with I think the people he raves about are the people we need to be concerned with.
00:50:44
Speaker
And the people who are just like, they're like Tricia. He was just like, she's a good person. Like, she's good. She's a good person. Like, she he didn't. I think she's. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's not going to be like, she's the best person I ever met.
00:50:58
Speaker
I do think she's somebody we should be. suspicious However, how he raved about Randall. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Agreed. And I mean, and Mark Kaufman, he did the same kind of and Susie. Yep.
00:51:11
Speaker
Yeah. So i then I asked about finances. asked about church finances. I explained my church is like absolutely transparent. We know the amount of tithing that comes in. We know that is done with tithing. We know outside um fundraising efforts or anything like that.
00:51:29
Speaker
we And if, you know, we have members meetings where they do the financials with the church. But if I called my church right now and was like, I have a question about this How this chunk of money was used. They'd be like, great, come in, we'll talk about it.
00:51:43
Speaker
And there's absolute transparency, um which I think is important when a large part of your business is through people giving you money. um So I asked him about, you know, how transparent is he with the church members, not even like media, not like outside people, not even taxes, but like the membership who tithes, how transparent he is with them.
00:52:08
Speaker
And he said, you know, he said a third of finances goes to like salaries. A third goes to building maintenance and then missions um in the country and outside of the country. And a third...
00:52:22
Speaker
Oh, what do you say? I can't remember the other third. Did you say salaries, building costs? Yeah. ah Maybe building costs and missions are separate. Yeah. I think so. It's like salaries, building and maintenance and and inner growth and then missions, right?
00:52:37
Speaker
Missions and and charity work and local charity work. So I just combined two of the thirds and I said, okay, is there like... A breakdown of like, percentage-wise, do people know like the dollar amounts?
00:52:50
Speaker
And he said that they used to tell everybody where everything was going. But church members would get upset when not enough money was going to help the elderly or the teens got this much money. Why didn't we get this much money?
00:53:03
Speaker
And so to stop the inner strife, they stopped telling everybody where the money is going. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay, that's not fishy. Right. And that's one of the things I wish I'd pushed back, but I don't think, I think it would have ended the call.
00:53:16
Speaker
It's like, i don't know, if there's inner turmoil at your church, your job as the head pastor is to lead people through that and to say, This feels like you aren't trusting us with what we're doing. Let's have a conversation about why.
00:53:33
Speaker
So I don't know when my church leadership says this much money is going to this program we work very closely with. We're like, great.
00:53:42
Speaker
We're not upset that. The kids ministry isn't getting more money because they will allocate it how it needs to be allocated and they figure it out how it needs to be figured. as I don't know if there's that kind of like inner turmoil that there's a problem and it's your and your elder team's job to figure that out because, yeah, I don't know.
00:54:02
Speaker
People should have a say in like how the tithes are going. However, there also should be like an inherent trust of your pastor. ah So that was my like, I don't like that for multiple reasons.
00:54:14
Speaker
Definitely red flag there. Yeah, definitely. So those were the things I don't I don't think there was at one point I oh, oh, this was another one when I asked if he felt like he was treating protesters as neighbors.
00:54:27
Speaker
And it's, you know, the verses love your neighbor as yourself. And he said, it's interesting that you use the word love. And I said, I'm quoting scripture. Yeah.
00:54:39
Speaker
Like the main one. and That's a biggie. Even I know that one. Right. but So that was um and he did say that the way and this will bring us into our next episode when we talk about updates. But the way he is showing the ah protesters love is by suing them.
00:55:02
Speaker
ah He is showing them that their evilness. and The only way he could do it is by suing.
00:55:10
Speaker
Yeah, that was... Which did lead me to ask... You're very litigious right now. Are you going to sue us? And he said he gave us his word that he would not sue us.
00:55:22
Speaker
However, he did say he would not sue us because I'm a Christian and Christians don't settle their differences in the court system because we're we're better than that. We can sit down and talk about it. And then he went on to say how...
00:55:37
Speaker
ah There was a Christian content creator that he reached out to and they had a whole conversation and the content creator i ended up apologizing. I forgot. I forgot about that whole part. I didn't get beyond you have my word. I won't sue you.
00:55:50
Speaker
And so i and didn't push. I don't know. Let's just say Robbie Harvey is a Christian like church attending loves Jesus Christian. And the reason I think he's not suing Robbie Harvey is because Robbie Harvey has a lot of information But I think without that, he would be taking Robbie Harvey to court tomorrow.
00:56:10
Speaker
And you can't sue someone if what they're saying, well, you can sue him, I suppose. But if what they're saying is true, that's... Or, like, he's become a public figure, and we always say allegations, allegations, whatever. Yeah.
00:56:23
Speaker
um There is like a level of I know, I don't know exactly, but like defamation when you're a public figure is different than if you're just like a regular person. Like, I think even us, we have ah very few listeners and viewers at this point.
00:56:37
Speaker
love yeah um um But we've technically kind of made ourselves public figures. So like, it's a less, less, like people can say mean things about us. We couldn't sue. Well, please don't.
00:56:48
Speaker
Yeah, please don't. And i'm i'm too I'm too lazy to sue anybody also. So that was, yeah, that was the other thing was like, all right, he said he wouldn't sue us. But I don't know how you take someone like J.P. Miller's word for anything. However, he said
00:57:04
Speaker
But you see how it's interesting to be in the position of talking him directly. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing, like I and i I held my tongue at this part when he said that the other content creator apologized.
00:57:16
Speaker
And boy, did it take everything in me to bite my tongue and not say, you know, I'm not going to apologize. Right. Because I'm not.
00:57:28
Speaker
So that was like my next thing. was like, don't say it. Don't say it. There was one thing. i i think I've talked about how I think there's some kind of human track trafficking sort of thing going on with this.
00:57:43
Speaker
Yeah. don't you to talk about that a little bit more because that stood out to me too, but I knew you were like, uh-oh. I had asked when I was with him, I had asked about, ah i mean, I i have this these these feelings about the minor children at the border who have been detained and then require sponsorship um and a lot of times churches sponsor them and then there's very little follow-up that churches make money off of that.
00:58:14
Speaker
So I kind of asked him in general about that, yeah of course, when i when I saw him the first time. And and he said, I don't know, again, that was one of those, so I've never heard of that. don't know. I what you're talking about.
00:58:26
Speaker
And then when we were on our conversation, said something, don't know, along the lines. i think just We were talking about the school. This actually, this is a big deal, too. We are talking about the school um and if it's still going on.
00:58:42
Speaker
and he said that it's now um being led out of somebody's home, which is concerning to me. It's like a homeschooled go-off. Yeah, there's three students who are left, which i I've always found very strange that there's three students left. im I'm wondering if the students are kids who are church members, which I think is best case scenario, or if they're children who have are here on visas, and if they're being homeschooled with no oversight, that- gives me a lot of pause yeah yeah there that was is something i would definitely like more information about and i feel like could be more than it seems on face value um but he did so i asked that and he said oh it's funny that you asked um because i had never heard of this before and just uh whatever yesterday or whatever earlier this week um someone mentioned
00:59:38
Speaker
um that there the church might be taking care of a malaysian woman who was um like raped or something and needs needs to you a place to take care of her and to shelter her and yeah it's just so weird that that came up like right yeah and there was just something about that that It was very weird.
01:00:02
Speaker
um I think it was almost in could have also been the thing of like talking to me and recognizing like my i don't know this woman you talking get his feminist woman.
01:00:17
Speaker
I'm going tell her we're so we're helping ah this woman who has been raped. But on the other hand, and this was before these new allegations came out that we'll talk about next episode. I immediately, you and we didn't even really talk about this, but that was the type of thing that I was like, again, you don't protest too much. You're talking ah like just diving into how terribly this woman was treated and sexually assaulted and all of these things. Did bring up the sexual assault?
01:00:45
Speaker
I don't know. like he did It made me feel very uncomfortable. Yeah. Like I could even see him like, other you know, the church is is helping this woman from Malaysia, which in and of itself, after what we talked about would have been a red flag but yeah then when he specifically and that's what i'm saying sometimes about his words like sometimes maybe i don't know this that it's a big thing to say and i'm not saying that i'm using this as an example but okay um
01:01:17
Speaker
She was raped, never really talked about by whom. She was assaulted. You know, I'm not saying he did it at or any of that. But, you know. And it also lends itself to a recognition that he knows that's bad.
01:01:32
Speaker
Yeah. And almost like deflecting that he's taking care of somebody, quote, taking care of somebody who has experienced that.
01:01:42
Speaker
does he believe perhaps that absolves him of something or that makes him not a bad guy any i don't i don't know i don't know it was just a weird thing and then pretty shortly after these allegations came out that these jane does are suing yeah yeah right after pretty much right and so it was just kind of you know once those lawsuits came out i was like yikes i like this even less and i hated it before yeah Fully agree on that. Yeah, there's more more to look into there. Definitely more. yeah I mean, I think there's going to be more lawsuits from that are more recent.
01:02:18
Speaker
yeah I mean, I think that we're going to hear about a lot of, or are maybe they're not. Maybe these are people who were put in a position are in a position where they can't come
Addressing Listener Skepticism and Conclusion
01:02:28
Speaker
forward.
01:02:28
Speaker
um yeah They don't have the means. They don't have the knowledge. They don't have the freedom. I think there's some of that too. oh Yeah, I would agree. Yeah. I think, I mean, gosh, I mean, there's probably a million more things we could say about that. And, and I do think, I mean, um as we go forward and talk about, you know, our, our updates and stuff, we will refer back to some of the ah things we saw and heard and discussed. So, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:02:57
Speaker
And there were, you know, there were a couple of people and I, this felt weird talking about, but there were a couple of people in the live who were like, this totally didn't happen. And it's like, you know what? we don't feel comfortable releasing some of the things that prove that it did happen. So, yeah, you know, you don't have to believe us and that's okay.
01:03:16
Speaker
Like it's not going to change what we're going to talk about and how we feel. Um, Yeah, it's just, ah you know, that first I got really defensive about that. And I was like, you know, we're not offering evidence that this actually happened. And they're going to have to take our word for it. And there are people who don't know us enough to trust us yet. And okay.
01:03:35
Speaker
Well, and I also, i mean, I specifically didn't take pictures. And and not that he told me. i mean, he did ask me if I, you know, was recording things and obviously said,
01:03:46
Speaker
you know, in church, please don't record it, which I i mean, I'm respectful enough to do that. But even taking pictures again, like he never told me I can't take pictures, but that just sort of felt like an awkward thing to do in the moment. It would also be uncomfortable to be like, JP, take a selfie with me. That would be like, Joy, that's too far.
01:04:06
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, I can I so I mean, even of the church, like where you couldn't see people, I i didn't take any pictures at all. So, I mean, I figured, OK, some people will not believe this story because it was.
01:04:17
Speaker
Yeah, and that's fine. That actually and this is so dumb of me. That actually didn't occur to me until someone said it. I was like, oh, I can tell you where we went to eat.
01:04:28
Speaker
Yeah. Right. It's like that just didn't occur to me whatsoever. But yeah, it's so stupid of a story for like me to walk up and randomly. I know.
01:04:39
Speaker
ah But yeah, it really did happen. Yeah. Whatever. It's fine. All right. So that was actually not what we planned on recording, but I'm really glad we did. And next time we'll get into the update. So there might be a couple more things actually. Who knows what the week will bring.
01:04:59
Speaker
And yeah, so we'll actually have another Micah episode. Yeah. And then we're yeah looking at what's coming next. It was great talking with you all. All right. Have a great week.
01:05:10
Speaker
Bye.
01:05:20
Speaker
Bye.