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Book Club: The House of My Mother by Shari Franke, Part Three, Part One
46 Plays8 days ago
Welcome to part one of Part 3 of Shari's book! We keep exploring Shari's dark experience in her family home.
Check out our YouTube channel, Fixate Today: Grey Matters
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Transcript
Introduction to The House of My Mother, Part Three
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome back to the channel. We are continuing to walk through Sherry Frankie's book, The House of My Mother. We are on part three, and I think we decided we're going to break the parts up into a smaller parts? Question mark?
Audience Engagement and Interactive Sessions
00:00:20
Speaker
Yeah. And just, I hope you guys are liking our book club series. Yeah. know it's kind of different from our, our regular, our regular content, but I don't know, probably a different group of people maybe watch this, but anyways, we're having fun with it.
00:00:34
Speaker
Yeah. Hope, hope we get a little following. Cause yeah, I always want a book club. So this way, hopefully we could share it with you. Exactly. And it would be really cool eventually to do like lives that were interactive.
00:00:46
Speaker
Doing book club together. That would be super fun.
Keeping Content Light: Exploring Memoirs
00:00:49
Speaker
So we just have to think through that and we're not great at that. Yeah. No, we'll build up to that. But um but yeah, put comments in. um I mean, I'm sure we don't have a ton of people watching these right now, but I think they will be fun. And um yeah we'd love to hear what you guys have to say and maybe other books that want us read. And we want to keep them light. We don't want to get into any heavy stuff.
00:01:12
Speaker
Yeah. Like I really want to read. ah There's this huge book about the challenger, but it's like 600 pages. We will not be doing that for book club. No, we'll be doing, we'll be doing fun light stuff. Get some memoirs maybe. Yeah. Memoirs are perfect. Yeah. Especially people kind of in, don't know, public eye. And it, and it super doesn't like, it doesn't have to be exactly on theme. Like I thought for a while we were talking about doing a series um for the podcast, at least on the troubled teen industry, the wilderness.
00:01:43
Speaker
which kind of gets into this book too. Right. But like we could do that and do like Paris Hilton's book.
Contemplating 'Spare' by Prince Harry and Meghan Markle
00:01:49
Speaker
So it doesn't have to be like matches exactly or something, but yeah. So if you guys have any ideas.
00:01:56
Speaker
don't know. We may have to do Prince Harry's and Meghan Markle's book. Oh, spare. Spare. That could be polarizing because that that's where we have very different
Symbolism in Hieronymus Bosch's Painting
00:02:09
Speaker
feelings. Yes, we do. that Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:11
Speaker
That book made me like. who Yeah, that might be fun or it might harm our relationship. Well, let's get back to this one that we agree. Ruby Frankie's terrible.
00:02:24
Speaker
Yep. All right. So we are on part three. Yes. So this part is called The Conjurer, another painting by Hieronymus Bosch.
00:02:37
Speaker
um This is just a straightforward painting. no No hinges, no doors opening. And this painting, ah the theme is people who are being fooled by lacking insight.
Who is Jodi Hildebrandt?
00:02:47
Speaker
And so it is a painting of...
00:02:50
Speaker
a ah group of people but mostly focused on a wealthy man who is leaning in watching somebody perform cup and ball trick. So it's like a magician performing a trick.
00:03:03
Speaker
ok And while the man is leaning in watching a magic trick, somebody else is taking his change out of like his purse out of his pocket. And so it's basically the conjurer is the magician. He's luring in the prey.
00:03:19
Speaker
um but In this painting, there is a child who sees what's really happening. He's aware that there's a magic trick going on and that this man is being
Jodi's Program and Ruby Frankie's Involvement
00:03:30
Speaker
robbed.
00:03:30
Speaker
This amazing how she found symbolism. I know. I love that. symbolas in him and that you i know I'm so glad I caught it because that that was the one that like the other two were very insightful for to me, but this one like blew my mind.
00:03:46
Speaker
Oh, yeah, definitely. When I was looking, I was just like looking up because I don't know anything about art. So I keep looking up like, what is the meaning of this? And it was like, do you see the child who's aware of everything going on? But is it child? So no one's going to listen to him.
00:04:02
Speaker
So and then the the reason that's apropos. Yeah. don't know if that's a word. Is because now we're going to get into Jodi Hildebrandt, the therapist entering the Frankie's lives. Yeah.
00:04:20
Speaker
And how turns it upside down. And also how she's a little, she's extremely manipulative. And Sherry, in the in the painting that you described, Sherry
Chad's Wilderness Therapy Journey
00:04:34
Speaker
would be the child who sees it going on, but Yeah.
00:04:38
Speaker
But nobody will listen. Yep. So chapter 16 is very appropriately titled Snake in the Garden. So we're still talking about the Orlando trip that Chad snuck out and went to the park on his own.
00:04:53
Speaker
yeah ah Universal Studios and had the best day because he had gotten in trouble before. um And this was kind of a line in the sand for Ruby and Kevin that he needed to be fixed. And Ruby sought some advice from a family friend who said, I know just the person.
00:05:09
Speaker
And she had been attending Jodi Hildebrand's Life Coaching Program Connections. And this family friend said Ruby commands a commands a lot of respect and might be just the person break through to Chad.
Controversy Around Jodi's Counseling Methods
00:05:27
Speaker
Given his spirited nature.
00:05:32
Speaker
Yep. So she was a licensed clinical mental health count counselor. And the LDS community kind of saw her as just like this miracle person.
00:05:44
Speaker
Her program connections was for overcoming addictions, distorted thinking, and using the tools of perfect honesty, personal responsibility, and vulnerable humility.
00:05:58
Speaker
So Ruby called up Jodi immediately. Well, you know what's interesting about Jodi is although she came recommended by the LDS church, she doesn't really, her methods don't seem to follow the LDS doctrine all that much.
00:06:15
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I don't see a lot of the religious faith. Yeah, I... I see both because we saw earlier when Sherry was talking to the bishop saying like, when you're sinning is when Satan gets in.
00:06:30
Speaker
Yeah. And there are little things like that that I actually think she took
Critique of Jodi's Principles
00:06:35
Speaker
and kind of like bastardized. Yeah, I guess that's what i that's what I'm kind of saying. like Yeah. yeah She was able to zero in.
00:06:45
Speaker
on the parts of doctrine that worked for her. ah but may But they're usually the negative points or the ah yes right points of the of it. of the Yeah. She honed in on the things that people of the LDS faith are worried about or anxious about and exploited those.
00:07:05
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so here we get in. So she has like some language that she likes to use in her oh yeah therapy. So her Connections program promised to help people overcome everything from porn addiction to distorted thinking.
00:07:26
Speaker
And she preached a philosophy based on three core principles. Impectable honesty... I said that wrong. Impeccable honesty, rigorous personal responsibility, and vulnerable humility.
Family's Reaction to Chad's Therapy
00:07:41
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. What do you think? Like those as, as principles, core principles at that point. I would take out the first word. I would say core principles, honesty, personal responsibility, and humility. Yeah, I guess. Because those like qualifiers are what make it like, I don't know, that makes it extra for me.
00:08:01
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, yeah. Especially like I'm looking at now, vulnerable humility. Yeah. Yeah. that's something she uses. She turns that around on people. Yeah.
00:08:13
Speaker
Yeah. On their own, those ideas, I think, are fine. Yeah. Yeah. Like, better yourself through honesty and being responsible and he and humble. Right. Right. But when it's, like, rigorous personal responsibility.
00:08:23
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. then you can see. I'm sorry. And imp impact the impeccable honesty, just it's it's like the opposite of the boy who cried wolf. It's somebody who's like, I am being honest. And then someone yelling back at you, you're not.
00:08:35
Speaker
You're lying about something. you know and And we'll see that. that's yeah It's not like people that she's working with almost have to come up. like She's wanting honesty and constantly telling them, no, you're hiding something.
00:08:52
Speaker
No, you're hiding something to the point where They start almost creating. yeah Well, jumping ahead. So anyway. So she does love these. She does love this concept of distorted thinking.
00:09:05
Speaker
huh And at this point, it's kind of hard to define exactly what distorted thinking Yeah. Means. Yeah. And I think it's I think that's intentional. I think all these terms are so broad that there's nothing on the surface nefarious about it.
00:09:23
Speaker
I'm mot like, you know, like even the things I just said, like the rigorous personal responsibility wouldn't be nefarious if I didn't know. what i know about her right know how she abuses those right so like distorted thinking that just sounds to me on the surface as just like somebody who wants to be a famous therapist or so famous psychologist maybe have like a dr phil style show someday and she's creating these words to but kind of be buzzy yeah yeah and get attention that way and which i'm sure is what she was doing
00:09:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Ruby set up a Zoom call with Chad and Jodi like immediately. They were still in Orlando. Crazy. So again, he's pulled this prank and we're already jumping into, I don't know.
00:10:09
Speaker
Yeah. To a Zoom call with this therapist who they didn't really know at this point. No. Had been recommended. Yeah. But I think it's just a strange time and place to begin this therapy. Yep. Yeah.
00:10:24
Speaker
Yeah. Intrigued by the idea of turning Chad from Dennis the Menace into an LDS poster child was that their goal in setting up this Zoom call right away. And they're like in their hotel room.
00:10:40
Speaker
Yeah. Right. It's like immediately. It's like she's so mad they did it immediately. ah wonder what kind of privacy he had. wonder if they left the room Right? I know.
00:10:50
Speaker
yeah so It would be whatever Jodi said, I imagine. You know, if Jodi was like, you guys need to leave the room, they'd leave the room. And it was
Jodi's Influence on Ruby's Views
00:10:58
Speaker
probably everyone leaving the room except Ruby.
00:11:01
Speaker
Right. So she could spin it the way she wanted. Yeah. So after that first call, Jodi told Ruby, like, she could fix him. But what would take was weekly one-on-one calls with Jodi, and he should be sent to a wilderness therapy program in Arizona for, quote, troubled teens.
00:11:19
Speaker
Now let's think about how insane this is. These programs are intense. Yeah. or ha They're wilderness program that are intense.
00:11:30
Speaker
Yeah. No, you know what? I don't know about... ah i don't even think they get tents. I don't even think so. No, they're like out in the desert. And ah yeah, this is not... I don't think these programs are necessarily directed at like pranksters.
00:11:47
Speaker
I mean, I think they're... um ki Kids that are probably doing really bad stuff. Well, I think that was the start. And then they, I, and I do still want to do a series about these.
00:12:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But I think people, ah what you'll find is a lot of parents who so end up sending their kids there are kind of manipulated into thinking that their kids are doing worse things or the things they're doing will lead to worse things.
00:12:14
Speaker
Right. So they got to send them to this camp now to fix them before it gets too bad. Yeah. Meanwhile, are they sending them to, to ah spend time with ah other kids who do worse things and um introducing those concepts yeah to them.
00:12:27
Speaker
But the amazing thing is this is over one Zoom call. over one zoom call That she throws out this idea yeah um of this. I didn't even know. Usually they're like six week programs.
00:12:40
Speaker
I don't know. they I don't know if they say in here exactly how long it is. Well, this was 49 days of treatment because it was $13,945.
00:12:53
Speaker
I also think that parents sometimes don't want to deal with, they want a magic answer. Yeah. And out of sight, out of mind, they can not worry. They can,
00:13:03
Speaker
have that feeling of I'm doing the right thing. I'm parenting, I'm helping my child, but I don't really have to do it. And I don't have to, and you know, for 49 days are sort of out of my, my hair, but I, yeah, I can feel like I'm, I'm helping them.
00:13:21
Speaker
Right. Yeah. So while all of this is happening, it's like shocking that Chad's going to now be sent away. Ruby calls it or Sherry calls it Project Chad get him on the right path again, um says Ruby was desperate for a solution and Jodi seemed...
00:13:40
Speaker
to know exactly what to say and to promise the things that ruby needed to hear get right in there so she was on board from day one wonder if she had wonder if she had financial ties to that i'm sure there i mean there was after they were arrested they had been looking in arizona at plots of land do you remember this Yes, yes. And I think her parents, she had connections to Arizona. Well, I do. Arizona has much more lax rules about these kind of troubled teen centers.
00:14:14
Speaker
and so that's why But I also know there's some in Utah. yeah so um But I think even Arizona is like more, they're they're not as concerned about these things. But they, yeah, they looked at plots of land and supposedly it was for Jodi to start her own.
00:14:32
Speaker
But I do think she worked at one for a long time. Okay. Okay. I knew she worked drug and alcohol rehab, but. I think she
Jodi's Personal History and Control
00:14:40
Speaker
has, there's some sort I don't know if it was Anasazi, but there was, she worked like in a high up role at one. And chisy yeah I think her ultimate goal was she was going to start her own.
00:14:50
Speaker
She and Ruby. That makes a lot of sense. I hadn't really thought about that, but yes. she I don't think she and Ruby. I think she and Ruby's money. Yeah. yeah So yeah, but like like this is all happening so fast and Sherry looked Jodi up online and she like the rhetoric made her feel uneasy.
00:15:07
Speaker
Even her photo was off-putting. Just like she's severe looking. She said it was a complete absence of nurturing energy. she She summed it up as smug.
00:15:19
Speaker
Yeah, she seemed oddly smug. So that's she just did like a surface dive. She does talk about later. She goes deeper into Jodi's story. she said like she was the sixth of seven kids.
00:15:33
Speaker
Stay at home mom. she said the family motto was you're a Hildebrand. Go hard or go home. And I don't know at this point if they she is a mom. I don't know at this point if they realize she is really not in contact with her two children who are grown at this point.
00:15:49
Speaker
Yeah. but Yeah. I don't think yet. So it goes through, yeah a bit of her backstory. She was growing up. She so was more comfortable around animals than humans.
00:16:00
Speaker
her She did grow up in the desert. Yeah. The adults were for not affectionate. And so she, like she said, admitting, she admitted finding the sight of tenderness between parents and children disturbing. Now, listen, I don't like a hug. I'm very weird about touching. It's part of my me too weird brain.
00:16:21
Speaker
will tackle my children to hug them. Yeah, was going to say, as much as I don't with my children, I'm not affectionate. No, it is not a thing. Now, Jodi did publicly share stories of being sexually abused yeah by a 15-year-old neighbor when she was two to five.
00:16:39
Speaker
Yeah. so And again, yeah when she was by a 16-year-old when she was seven to nine. And I do think that probably happened. agree. There was no – it seems like there was very little supervision and there's a lot going on with Jodi and this that could – that some of that trauma could be stuck with her.
00:17:01
Speaker
Yeah. No, she didn't, she didn't expose that until she was 21. Yeah. And then she finally told a counselor about the abuse. So
Analyzing Chad's Return and Family Video
00:17:10
Speaker
yeah. At age 26, her ex-husband filed for divorce and she got custody of her kids who were nine and seven.
00:17:17
Speaker
But in some of her writings, she admitted like it was hard managing those young kids. In 2003, she became a clinical mental health counselor under the Utah Division of Professional Licensing.
00:17:31
Speaker
know, I don't know what her educational background was. I don't know. have no idea, actually. and She was guided by heavenly instruction and inspired invitations, which the notion of invitations kind of comes up repeatedly.
00:17:48
Speaker
in her work. Again, Sherry seems insightful on this. And she says, what troubled me the most was how quickly my mother seemed willing to entrust Chad's fate to this virtual stranger. yeah Ready to ship him off to wilderness camp based on Jodi's advice alone.
00:18:10
Speaker
Yeah. Which agree. that It's just ah strange. I know. It's the thing of like, you always say you would never be tricked into joining a cult.
00:18:21
Speaker
And I, it's like, I don't think Sherry would.
00:18:26
Speaker
Right. Don't know what personality traits, but there is something hu i think in certain humans that, I don't know, that approach that differently. Yeah.
00:18:37
Speaker
But I guess you're never the person who thinks, hey, I would be. Right? You never think you're the person. Right? Yeah. so um So Chad, when he left for Anasazi, of course, they it was used on the channel.
00:18:54
Speaker
Of the course. Of course. so ah Ruby and Kevin couldn't resist recording a video to explain their decision. They painted Chad as some kind of juvenile delinquent in desperate need of an attitude overhaul.
00:19:10
Speaker
Yep. And Kevin uncharacteristically took the lead. Yeah. Which that surprises me. I think because I've thought about that a lot, actually, because I remember when this all broke, that video played quite a bit. And I was like, oh, that's so weird. He's like maybe he was involved with the channel more than I thought or, you know, things like that.
00:19:31
Speaker
um I think. People had, I think people were probably starting to be in tune with a bit of, Ruby was a little more, you know, the abuse things hadn't started yet, but she was firm.
00:19:46
Speaker
And I think Kevin presenting this huge step almost softens the blow a bit for viewers and also shows how serious this is to them, which then
Cult-like Aspects of Jodi's Program
00:20:00
Speaker
the viewers would say, oh, this is serious.
00:20:02
Speaker
Yeah. And coming from Kevin, I think it would seem more authentic. Yes. At least initially. Because it does say then that Ruby took center stage, jumped up, and Chad needs to develop ah she says chad needs to develop some very basic maturity and skills.
00:20:20
Speaker
This is a chance to reset new beginning. ah And I'm thinking, well, isn't that what a parent's job is to to help your child yeah develop those skills, not...
00:20:33
Speaker
49 days in the desert, ah putting, entrusting it with somebody else. Yeah. Sherry says, but beneath her forced levity, the underlying message was clear. This was another punishment, a way to break Chad down and rebuild him into their perfect, obedient son.
00:20:50
Speaker
And Ruby's like really excited about this. Yeah. I was like, she bordered on manic. It's like the real wilderness out there. She enthused eyes gleaming. There are snakes, bears, coyotes, cougars.
00:21:02
Speaker
It's the real deal. Yeah. We want Chad to have some of those experiences. Like as if this is a camp. Yeah. Sleepaway camp. yeah Yeah. It's just.
00:21:14
Speaker
And I have each program I assume is different, but ah you know, I've known, children or teenagers who have gone to such camps and like you can never be alone.
00:21:26
Speaker
Like even when you have to use the restroom, I guess not restroom, um, the tree, I don't, the tree. Well, it's, it's the desert. yeah Oh yeah.
00:21:38
Speaker
Um, and then like food's very limited and very bleak, like a can of tuna, uh, some peanut butter yeah and you you know need to manage on um i think as you build up more time there you earn privileges but and again i i'm not saying they all are that way but so i mean and chat didn't seem all that reluctant reluctant to go don't know at least it's not expressed that i'm not sure Yeah, he he doesn't seem thrilled, but he doesn't seem he seems resigned that it's going to happen.
00:22:14
Speaker
You know? Now, the interesting thing is that later in retrospect, Kevin claimed he disagreed at the time ah before. So, yeah, I think he probably did.
00:22:29
Speaker
i
Ruby's Reinforcement of Beliefs
00:22:30
Speaker
don't think he said anything. No, no I think that's exactly it. You know, I think internally he did. And I think externally he would say, probably say something like, do you really think that's necessary? Or something, you know mean? Something very noncommittal that's not him putting his foot down.
00:22:45
Speaker
It's being like, do you, I don't know if that's really what he needs. And, you know. And this is also a claim he made but he made after after the fact. Yeah. Which, you know, the negative part of Kevin is I do sometimes wonder at his honesty and reflecting on things that he should have done but didn't do it in the moment well you know sherry does say that when she was watching kevin in the video she noticed a flicker of doubt um but yeah you're i it's totally ah flicker of doubt never got verbalized
00:23:19
Speaker
ah Ruby decided while Chad was gone because everything was just weird. They were like confused and frustrated. Everything's just off. They needed to do a daily challenge to keep them connected. connected dead And she like rolled her eyes and thought it was dumb.
00:23:35
Speaker
So she had them. It says we were supposed to look into our own eyes and write about light, whatever that means and how to make it grow. i don't understand.
00:23:47
Speaker
It seems like it was, um, Ruby just ah coming up with something again that may made her feel like she was um helping the kids to grow, but it was pretty random.
00:23:58
Speaker
Yeah. I love Sherry. She does say that for her, she was basically still staring at her oily T-zone in the mirror. Yeah.
00:24:10
Speaker
So yeah. And that was hardly going to make her feel any better. Yeah. She's a teenage girl. So she's looking at her imperfections at this exercise. I wonder, does anyone do that and find deeper meaning?
00:24:23
Speaker
i don't know don't know I don't know. I don't know. know. So Chad returned three months later and he talked about this whole experience as if it was no big deal. Yeah. um Like almost like a nature walk rather than, you know, spending a quarter of the year.
00:24:40
Speaker
out in the desert um i don't think it says it in here but i do know that when he came home they like had redecorated his room yeah with an anasazi theme don't know just seems weird it's like psychological torture yeah that really really strange so
Isolation Within the Family
00:25:00
Speaker
yeah it was yeah he was uh no vlogging responsibilities why while he was there yeah um He got to build fires, see snakes, and sleep under the stars. Yeah.
00:25:12
Speaker
I mean, maybe that is... A form of escape? Yeah. I mean, we talked a bit already about how he... He's so laid back and he seems now more ready to kind of just move along with his life while Sherry is kind of like she wants the justice end of things.
00:25:33
Speaker
She's speaking to Congress like she's doing all of these things and he's just like, I'm just living my life. So maybe he does have that ability to like turn a difficult situation around for himself in some ways, whatever ways he can figure out.
00:25:48
Speaker
It seems like he's true to himself. um Yeah. But doesn't fight back too much. Yeah. Is how he seems to me. Yeah. I think that's, I think he does have a little bit of his dad in him in that way.
00:26:01
Speaker
He's more of a keep the peace person. So Sherry's continuing to find, be questioning this Jodi Hildebrandt's background. And, and so she's Googling her and seeing some red flags. Yeah.
00:26:19
Speaker
Yeah. So she particularly talks about 2012 incident with a young man who, with his new wife and baby to attend Brigham Young University.
00:26:30
Speaker
He went to see Jodi for therapy and it, turned horrible. We talked a lot about this man on our podcast. This is Adam Steed. He's come forward with this crazy story about what this woman put him through.
00:26:46
Speaker
he had been through, i mean, really, he'd been through hell before that as a child. And ah she got, Jodi got to the point of accusing him of being abusive to his baby and his wife.
00:26:59
Speaker
And he went to the BYU honor code and told them he was a sexual predator. and reported him to the church. So his life fell apart. However, her license was suspended because she broke confidentiality with her client.
00:27:16
Speaker
Completely. Yeah. And I'm glad there was at least repercussions at that time. yeah And so Sherry comes across this, but as although there you know she her license was
Impact on Family Dynamics
00:27:30
Speaker
suspended, it was only temporary. Yeah.
00:27:34
Speaker
And he had, you know, the damage was done with him. And again, you know, she's out practicing again. Yeah. So Sherry brought this to Chad.
00:27:44
Speaker
um You know, he's he's being like, calm down. Everything's fine. I can handle this lady. And Sherry's worried. Sherry's, you know, expressing her concern.
00:27:56
Speaker
And he kind of just brushes her off, but tells Ruby that Sherry was expressing these concerns. Yeah. And yeah, because he kind of says, yeah, I can handle her.
00:28:07
Speaker
He knows how to deal with this. You disagree with what they say and move on. don't But yeah, and I don't know. Surprises me a little bit. that But, you know, maybe he, I suppose it wasn't, it was just in passing talking about it, right? It wasn't tattling. Yeah.
00:28:24
Speaker
so But he's he is speaking to Jodi. Yes. can sit regularly. So that could be the beginning of what we see she does to him. So Ruby, because Sherry is saying these things, ah Ruby accuses her of trying to sabotage Chad and she wants her to also go see Jodi.
00:28:45
Speaker
And Sherry says, but mom, she had her license suspended. Her own kids don't speak to her. And Ruby says her kids couldn't handle the truth. She's been called by God to help people. Yeah.
00:28:56
Speaker
Ruby's eyes gleamed with the fervor of a true believer. She was sold on Jodi hook, line, and sinker. Here we start seeing the called on by God. Already three months.
00:29:09
Speaker
Chad was gone for three months and already Jodi was called on by God to Ruby. ah yeah And Ruby's buying it all. Yep. Okay. Chapter 17. We're going to start seeing a little bit about Jodi's programs and what exactly...
00:29:26
Speaker
yeah They have to offer. This is called the cult of connections. Open with my first car was a hand me down from Kevin, a 2016 Ford focus in pristine white.
00:29:40
Speaker
Every morning as I slid into the driver's seat to head to school, I felt a small thrill of freedom with the radio humming softly in the world, rushing by outside the
Ruby's Control Over Sherry
00:29:50
Speaker
windows. I could breathe, think, and just be myself without any prying eyes or expectations.
00:29:57
Speaker
It represented the first real taste of adulthood, of making my own decisions and charting my own course. Sure, that course was mainly between home and school, with the occasional rebellious detour to the drive-thru, but still, freedom.
00:30:10
Speaker
Do you remember? I remember exactly that feeling. Yeah. And I didn't even have a terrible life to try to. i tried ah be away from. I just know that first like summer after I got my license and I had a car. Yeah.
00:30:25
Speaker
Like I got my own car. My parents paid $2,000 for it. I remember my first drive, like my first night out.
00:30:37
Speaker
Yep. so ah So, so, so Sherry's parents did give her a car um as many parents do. They gave them like Kevin's old car. Yeah. Got transferred to, to Sherry.
00:30:49
Speaker
Now she points out here and that the car's title remained in Kevin's name. A deep, a detail that nagged, At the back of my mind.
00:31:00
Speaker
Now I'm thinking, you know, again, that's one of those things in retrospect, I would think. I mean, I don't think my kids would even think of the fact that whose car is titled, you know. Yeah.
00:31:10
Speaker
So it feels to me like that was, went looking back, she that seemed more significant than actually at the time. And it also couldn't and might not have necessarily been like the title, but just like, I'm sure she was reminded at who actually owns the car, you know? Right. Right.
00:31:28
Speaker
ah Can Ruby swoop in one day and take this small piece of independence away from me?
Promotion of Family Isolation
00:31:35
Speaker
Which she had. I mean, she had taken away the phone in the past or her you know different freedoms.
00:31:41
Speaker
And yeah, it's definitely something she held over her and yeah definitely could control her. Oh, yeah. that Yeah. So now we see that Ruby's behavior started shifting.
00:31:53
Speaker
um She and Kevin were going to connection conferences. Initially, Kevin didn't like connections. He called it a man-hating women.
00:32:04
Speaker
here He said he felt like he was surrounded by a bunch of, quote, man-hating women. and And I think in the docuseries, he calls it a man-hating women cult. But then like Chad with the, with his concept is easier to go along. So it's easier to go along with it than to risk becoming the next target of Jodi's truth seeking missiles.
00:32:24
Speaker
So they're in these groups, right? And Jodi's calling out various people, particularly men, I assume, i guess that's how I envision what was going on. And And yeah so Kevin's just going to lay low Well, and then kind of the opposite starts happening. Well, get well I'm jumping ahead a tiny bit, but he gets he becomes very well respected in connections.
00:32:50
Speaker
And it's hindsight. You can see it's like that is like an abusive marriage. It's like the love bombing that she built him up so much is like he's so great and then pulled the rug out from under And it's like Jodie doing this.
00:33:05
Speaker
Jody is building him up to get his trust. and ah Which works. Yeah. so So then they have these programs where others can become like team leaders.
00:33:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's an MLM. It is. But okay. So again, like these people don't have any education and these leadership certifications, that they're nothing yeah like legal certifications. It's just per Jodi. Yeah.
00:33:35
Speaker
And I think think the ah Mormon Stories podcast talked a lot about how using the title of mental health coach makes it so you don't have to have gone to school to be a therapist. You're a coach. Yeah.
00:33:48
Speaker
it Coach or trainer or whatever. So they apparently there was a six-week team leadership training that included six 90-minute sessions with a certified connections trainer. Mm-hmm.
00:34:03
Speaker
And access to Jodi's library and books that she and podcasts she's been putting out. And it's $5,000 per person. So when you talk about the MLM, here we go.
00:34:15
Speaker
who And here they, I mean, they haven't even, Kevin and Ruby, ah doesn't sound like they've even been associated with this group that long before they're considering following through with this yeah next level.
00:34:29
Speaker
Yeah.
Ruby's Alignment with Jodi's Teachings
00:34:30
Speaker
Yeah. ah but And then yeah for those who are even more committed, ah there's an 18-week program that costs whatever, $15,000 basically. I love i love this. Jodi believed in the old adage, if you're going to fleece someone, might as well go for the whole sheep.
00:34:48
Speaker
I love that. I do too. Yeah, she goes on to discuss Jodi's $5 million dollar luxury home in Ivins, Utah, complete with a pool and a safe room.
00:35:00
Speaker
And it's just wild. um That house still just blows my mind. So ah Sherry goes on to discuss Jodi's playbook, which is isolation and control.
00:35:14
Speaker
Which is such a classic. Yeah. It's so classic. I mean, we even see that within our. own government and world ah yeah position today so but it's it's a it's a move of high control groups isolate control connection students were urged to distance themselves not living under jody's truth and then she says at first i hesitated to use the word cult it seemed extreme Which I could see at the beginning.
00:35:40
Speaker
Yeah. And then as she was Googling things like, is my family in a cult? The connections ticked all the boxes. And the isolation kind of escalated. So at first it isolation from other people in your community that didn't believe. but But then as we see it moves on to family, like a extended family members. Well, I don't even know extent, like parents and aunts and uncles and- And ultimately Sherry. So, yep. um She also does point out a kind of of what we talk about with the LDS and how the LDS life um was kind of perfect for the family vlogging.
00:36:24
Speaker
It also worked as a dedicated enclave within Utah with the perfect setup for someone like Jodi, ready-made isolated community ripe for manipulation.
00:36:36
Speaker
Yeah. And we will give Jodi credit for she does have foresight and she knows how to exploit situations. Yeah. She even uses the word groupthink, which is you got a group of people parroting everything you believe.
00:36:53
Speaker
Everything she believes, right? Like it would ah talked about her little army informing on each other, recruiting anybody who'd listen, but um They would even, yeah they would, again, like, tattle on each other. yeah They were pressured to make these different members were in contact, ah supposed to be and speaking all the time and can confessing. And then here we get that word, they're distortions.
00:37:19
Speaker
And then they would come back to yeah be held over them as like blackmail of sorts. Yeah. And that's so common in cults. There's so many
Sherry's Resistance and Family Pressure
00:37:30
Speaker
cults that require...
00:37:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:38
Speaker
it was they had to take a new like naked pictures and send them to somebody and like they're collecting black so ruby or jody's getting all these confessions And what did she do to Adam Steege? She distorted the confessions to weaponize against him.
00:37:59
Speaker
It's like this cult playbook. And you wonder, do you go into it? Does someone like Jodi go into it with the intention of creating this? Or is it just with time it evolves? i Or is it a personality trait that...
00:38:16
Speaker
That craves power. I think it's the power. I think it's – she probably went in believing her method was the best for the world. And she just had to get people to hear her and believe her. And then as it evolved, it became an outlet for her trauma and a way of keeping her – possibly true self under wraps and and managed and once i think she's a person that once she got a little taste of power and especially power over men yes she just wanted more and more it was her mode of validation which everyone needs right so so ruby very quickly became a certified connections life coach
00:39:06
Speaker
um And Sherry mentions that their client confidentiality was not a thing between Ruby and Jodi, which means Chad could be saying things to Jodi that Jodi's then directly relaying to Ruby. Which I'm certain was happening. for You know, one thing, I don't know if, did Ruby ever see any...
00:39:26
Speaker
Did she ever provide therapy to any clients? I don't think so. I'm not sure about that. yeah I don't. I don't. I never remember seeing that. I don't imagine she did. i There were a lot of videos of her and Kevin like speaking in front of connections groups.
00:39:40
Speaker
And making the videos. Being part of the videos. Jodi's rigid world innocence was rare, but those deemed distorted, usually husbands, were told to abandon their families and work on themselves.
00:39:56
Speaker
And I'm not sure I've ever heard of any programs or any type of therapy that that such things are encouraged. I mean, that's pretty extreme. hu Yeah.
00:40:08
Speaker
But also also extreme that he they fought yeah these husbands follow through. Yeah. It says, shockingly, the husbands often went along with it, fully convinced that it was in the best interest of their families.
00:40:19
Speaker
It was like watching lemmings jump off a cliff. the The separations lasted at least six months. And some of the forms of infidelity she said that husbands were committing were just like saying someone was attractive. hit or And I think that's upon her prodding.
00:40:38
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Could be just. speaking Speaking to a coworker. Yeah. A coworker of explicit sex. Being online and seeing a person.
00:40:50
Speaker
That to to her is falls under the definition of porn. And yeah, Ruby had a way of fixing, or I'm sorry, Jodi had a way of fixing all of this. Saying their name
Continued Family Distress
00:41:00
Speaker
so many times, I'm just thinking back to the when we first did the series and it was the whole thing was like Ruby. I mean, Jodi.
00:41:06
Speaker
I mean, Ruby. It is a little hard. It's so hard. Yeah. um Then Sherry sees, like, she goes on to to understand how these two could have this symbiotic relationship. So it's interesting to compare Ruby's glacial approach to parenting with Jodi's rigid philosophy.
00:41:27
Speaker
The two weren't just similar. They were symbiotic. Jodi's connection doctrine wasn't so much a revelation to Ruby as it mirrored, reflected, and magnified um her harsh relationship.
00:41:41
Speaker
worldview that she had already always held. Yeah. And we talk about that. Like there's, there's multiple, and we've seen this multiple times in a row, like two people with somewhat distorted thinking. And, but when they find each other, the, the partnership becomes so dangerous.
00:42:00
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Later, a little further down, she says Connections wasn't introducing Ruby to a new way of thinking. It was giving her the vocabulary and pseudoscientific backing to justify what she had been doing all along.
00:42:13
Speaker
Jodi's system had simply slapped a fancy label on this emotional starvation diet and called it therapy. In the end, Connections didn't change Ruby's tactics. It just gave her a manual to refine them.
00:42:26
Speaker
And the funny thing the vocabulary. ah Right. it's it's It's so meaningless. I mean, distortion distortions become anything that Jodi doesn't agree with or eventually that Ruby doesn't agree with.
00:42:39
Speaker
It's not even a defined there's not even a defined meaning except. ah Yeah. Anything I want to I want to disagree with. And truth is ends up being anything I want you to do for me or, or anything i want you to change about yourself is my truth. Yes.
00:42:57
Speaker
Yes. Kind of. Quickly, but quietly, Eight Passengers turns into kind of a sounding board for this.
00:43:08
Speaker
She never says like, Jodi Hildebrand centered her lives and connections and blah, blah, blah, blah. It's just like the content starts changing. Jodi's ideas, I think, just become more and more incorporated into the yeah and to the regular vlog, right? Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:24
Speaker
Yeah. And then eventually she starts directly promoting connections, events, saying she was going to be at this conference or come to this meetup or whatever. It was almost like Ruby wanted to introduce these ideas and then kind of claim them as her own new philosophy and see how her her viewers reacted. Yeah. She was like testing the waters with – Right. She'd use the word truth more and things like that. Yeah.
00:43:50
Speaker
And you kind of wonder if going back to that idea of my fear is to wake up one day and have no content, if this was her way of shifting yeah into a new form of content.
00:44:01
Speaker
Yeah. And her followers trusted her. Like so many of them thought she was the best mom and and wanted, you know, let's emulate what she's doing. so They had for years. Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:12
Speaker
And they, you know, many converted to the LDS church because of her. Right. And she's got, she could pull in more people.
00:44:24
Speaker
It was like a brand collaboration. Yeah. Yeah.
Conclusion and Reflection on Sherry's Experience
00:44:30
Speaker
Without the financial... benefit to yeah eight passengers. So then we get kind of back to them the personal level that Jodi told Ruby and Kevin that they should pull Chad out of all extracurriculars, so track and football.
00:44:43
Speaker
But that resulted in him missing scholarship opportunities for college. I don't know why this particular thing seems feels crushing to me. yeah It feels purposeless.
00:44:56
Speaker
It seems antithetic to what the goal was. and Yep. that You know, most people think of being involved in activities as a way to keep their children ah busy and grow confidence and be part of, you know, teams.
00:45:14
Speaker
So it kind of surprised me that she actually pushed for this. Yeah. And it was, I think, crushing. It says, and that meant Chad would be barred from sports until he was, quote, fixed. And that meant taking away the one thing that gave him purpose and joy.
00:45:31
Speaker
And yeah, it was a chance to prove himself, to carve out an identity beyond the constraints of our family dysfunction. But basically what they were doing is taking away self-worth, his individual feeling of self-worth.
00:45:46
Speaker
is what i i would say yeah yeah and and sherry picks up that he's already being controlled by jody when he tells her that he has to be responsible for himself before a team what what does that mean i right and he's just his the future that he had planned on happening going to college and with these scholarships and and all of these like it just is over And he doesn't fight back as much as you would think. Again, same pattern.
00:46:17
Speaker
doesn't he He seems to accept it <unk> more than... I think he's already been beaten down by her. And he's starting to buy into her program. Yeah. Yeah. not you know Not so much at this time. It's slowly. It's slowly happening.
00:46:30
Speaker
So on to chapter 18, isolation tactics. As I watched my family and so many others succumb to Jodi's twisted dogma, I couldn't help but wonder, what on earth was was the source of that woman's power?
00:46:45
Speaker
love this. Why did this woman, in her ugly khaki shorts and long-sleeved shirts, have such a hold on people? What is the promise of absolute truth, her supreme self-confidence that offered some illusion of certainty in a world that seems to be unraveling at the seams?
00:47:02
Speaker
Or was it the way she enabled people's hatred of others and themselves? it's ah That's interesting. Yeah. So they haven't been involved with connections for too, too long yet, but Jodi is already starting to turn her backs on her, her back on her parents and her siblings.
00:47:17
Speaker
Throughout the book, I, I, I, I do find it interesting. We don't really hear a lot about that relationship. Yeah. And as we'll see moving forward, Sherry doesn't talk a lot about turning toward her, turn her to her Ruby's family for help or comfort. Mm-hmm.
00:47:35
Speaker
So I'm not sure. And maybe she did ah more than she discusses. Or maybe that is kind of shows maybe there were some relationship. then maybe maybe Maybe the relationship that Ruby had with them was not as deep um originally.
00:47:49
Speaker
Or maybe she felt like, yeah, that information would get back to Ruby if she did. Yeah, I wonder if it's that. Like, and not even in in a tattletale-y way, but just like, hey, i Ruby, Sherry said this has been going on.
00:48:05
Speaker
type you know what i mean like um which they don't realize is throwing sherry under the bus yes because it's it and sherry's aware that it's happened in the past multiple times and and the repercussions that she has to deal with from ruby when it happens so yeah so have ruby's deleting contact after contact now you know she's if somebody is not believing in the same things or buying into um what Jodi's teaching, ah she's she's getting rid of friends like and family.
00:48:41
Speaker
And yeah I like that Sherry asks, was this healing? Mm-hmm. And Ruby started going into these, like, incidents of, like, how her childhood was, like, she had these all these wounds from her childhood. And her family was like, i don't know what talking about.
00:49:00
Speaker
And it was just, yeah. ah and And Sherry even wonders, like, what would stop her, what would stop Ruby from deleting Sherry from her life? Jodi needed um her clients to have trauma, too.
00:49:14
Speaker
In order for her to fix them. Yeah. I feel like. And then that focus on that trauma or on that negativity in your life or in your past.
00:49:28
Speaker
Yeah. It made her more relevant and needed. Yeah. And Sherry, just, you know, being a good person. is kind of proud of her mom, like seemingly wanting to work on like her emotional growth and like actually has some compassion for her in feeling the need that she has to always mask what's going on in the interior. And she's kind of like, oh, maybe this is okay.
00:49:55
Speaker
Maybe this is. And so maybe, maybe Ruby did have some demons from her past or and some trauma from her past that Yeah. And so she wants to kind of encourage that. But then Ruby announces that they will be pulling Sherry out of track.
00:50:11
Speaker
And she will need to start sessions with Jodi or lose her car, phone, and going to school. Just as she suspected all along. Mm-hmm.
00:50:22
Speaker
And Ruby says, you're not emotionally vulnerable to me. Mm-hmm. Which I'm trying to think of any person, in any child person high school. I mean, that's a time where your kids are off in their bedroom, door closed, working through their own things. I'm not sure that, um again, normal part of that age.
00:50:44
Speaker
ah huh Yeah. It's not about fixing Sherry. It's about fixing Sherry so it doesn't impact her future husband negatively. Yeah.
00:50:57
Speaker
i And so we start seeing, i mean, I shouldn't say, I don't even know if we start, this has been a continual theme from huh when she was a child, that her job was to find this this ah perfect husband.
00:51:13
Speaker
And if she didn't fix these personality traits, yeah She wasn't going find one or catch one. I think this next thing that Ruby says, just the beginning, is like she knew where to like stick the knife into her to get her have pain. She Sherry, you don't have empathy. You're not compassionate.
00:51:33
Speaker
When all that kid is. is empathetic and compassionate to a fault, to a degree that it causes her harm.
00:51:41
Speaker
And now I will say, i mean, we talk about this a lot not and I do you have autism. And I do think because there's a, they they say that a lot with people with autism that they don't have empathy.
00:51:55
Speaker
um But ah I actually think they have a tremendous amount. and They just have a hard time expressing it. um It's very uncomfortable. And they express it differently.
00:52:06
Speaker
ah That's been my my finding my understanding and how what I found through life. And I am extremely uncomfortable. Yeah. But it has nothing to do with not having it inside me.
00:52:17
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. um So Sherry feels completely trapped. She even goes so far as to like look up ways to emancipate herself. And she just realized like she has nowhere to go.
00:52:30
Speaker
And how ironic that ah Sherry, who wanted therapy um in the past, was virtually begging for it. And yep she was not allowed to pursue it any farther. Now she's being forced um into having these one-on-one sessions with Jodi.
00:52:49
Speaker
Oops. Once again, we spoke much longer than we intended. So we're going to cut the conversation here and we will continue with part three next week. Take care.
00:53:09
Speaker
Thank you.