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Book Club: The House of My Mother by Shari Franke, Part Two... Part Two
54 Plays26 days ago
Well, it turns out we have a lot to say about this book. We are splitting Part Two into three parts.
We continue reading Shari Franke's book, The House of My Mother. We start seeing the rise of Ruby, and how vlogging became Mormon best practice.
Check out our YouTube channel, Fixate Today: Grey Matters
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Transcript
Introduction and Recap
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everyone, welcome back to our channel. We are on part two of Sherry Frankie's book, The House of My Mother. We wrapped up part one. It ended with, sorry, I'm looking at my notes in my book.
00:00:15
Speaker
ended with Sherry kind of feeling like she was going to need to learn how to survive and thrive in the world she's in. Nothing about her world's going to change. She's going to have to adapt to it.
The Ship of Fools and Ruby's Identity Quest
00:00:28
Speaker
So in part one, um we talked about Ruby and Kevin's kind of background in courtship ah huh and starting their family. And then we start seeing that relationship.
00:00:39
Speaker
Ruby had the tendency toward the extreme control, um borderline abuse. Perfection. Yes. And that had always been in her even before she started her channel, the eight passengers. So yeah.
00:00:56
Speaker
So part two, like jump into the origins now of eight passengers and how it got started. Yeah. So in my nerd way, I looked up to see if the name of part two had anything to do with anything like I did for part one. And it is another painting by, ah and always forget how to say it, Hieronymus Bosch.
00:01:19
Speaker
And so the title of this part is Ship of Fools. And we talked a little bit about the triptych style of paintings last time that it's like the panels, right?
00:01:30
Speaker
This is another part of a different triptych. And this triptych is on the seven deadly sins. And this panel specifically, Ship of Fools, is about gluttony.
00:01:41
Speaker
But on the other end of ah another part of the painting that it's connected to is about stinginess. So it's like kind of the dangers of both extremes. But i I'm pretty sure with this we can understand that it's probably the gluttonous side.
00:01:58
Speaker
Yes. Yes. All right.
The Rise of 'Eight Passengers' Channel
00:02:00
Speaker
Chapter 8 is called A Star is Born. So I'm just going to read the first paragraph so we can kind of jump into things. see add Ruby's life was about to pivot.
00:02:11
Speaker
She had approached motherhood with the intensity of an Olympic athlete training for gold. Her identity singularly focused on procreation for more than a decade. But now, aged 30, with her sixth and last baby weaned, the Frankie family was finally complete, leaving her with a strange mix of accomplishment and unease, questioning what came next.
00:02:34
Speaker
She needed a fresh outlet for her energy and ambition. Ruby's sisters Ellie and Bonnie were already finding success on YouTube as content creators. And I know I can believe this.
00:02:46
Speaker
After spending so much time, I mean, your your life revolves around the kids. Yeah. who you are revolves around the kids. And so I see how at this point you do need a different focus. Yeah.
00:02:59
Speaker
And I feel like it's every stage of your kids' lives too. Right. Like, cause she's still, she's still in it. The last baby weaned means she still has a toddler. Like she still has a baby and a toddler, but every stage of motherhood, I feel like you have to kind of figure yourself out again.
00:03:15
Speaker
yeah And so i'm reading I'm reading this thinking of her like I am now that my kids are kind of older and I have more time for the things for myself. And she's like, ah, this baby's weaned. I got plenty of time for you to live now.
00:03:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You're in the, they're independent for the most part. I'm in the yeah empty nest. So my kids are are on their own. And so I do think it's, so I think it's interesting for her. yeah You need to find something. i I think you need to find something to fill in that emptiness or that fill in that pattern of your life. And so like, for me, it's doing this.
00:03:51
Speaker
I mean, yeah, same. I mean, this is really like, yeah, why we started it. Yeah, this is really like, been a really good outlet for creativity. I didn't really know I needed.
00:04:01
Speaker
Right. And stimulating our brain and, and then yeah, then to focus on. So yeah, I can see that. And yeah, I think the key here is that her Ruby sisters actually started this.
00:04:14
Speaker
They were the ones who um started the the family blogging first. Yeah. I guess, yeah, it's vlogging. Is it family vlogging? Vlogging because it's the video blog.
00:04:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. We're very young and cool. Yeah. I think Ruby as the oldest, um and I don't know, she just seems like she's got her life fully pulled together that she thought, oh, if they can do it, I can do it.
00:04:41
Speaker
And maybe even I can do it a little bit better in her mind. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there is, um I can't remember where it is It's in this chapter, but, oh, it's ah a bit later when she's talking about, you know, her sister's doing this and she's like, well, I have the most kids. Of course, I'll do it the best.
00:04:59
Speaker
But I feel in her mind, too the most kids. And I don't know. I think she feels some so superiority and more than one way. Oh, yeah. It's like she can handle the most kids. So her it's like the kids, each kid will make the vlog bigger or make the channel bigger, you know?
00:05:17
Speaker
And bring attention on how good of a mother she is, how perfect of a world that she lives in. So, yep. So we have eight passengers launching in 2015.
00:05:29
Speaker
And it wasn't immediately a huge hit. No. Did a little better than ours from the start. So we're hanging in there. We are. We're not exploiting anyone.
00:05:42
Speaker
That's true. ah well But yeah, i I liked there's a line in there that said, ruby Ruby Frankie was not just a mother, but a matriarch worthy of widespread admiration and emulation.
00:05:57
Speaker
And then to me, really up really wraps up really how she sees it. ah roll And not just that, this just occurred to me, but that her role should be admired, but emulated. Like she knows how to be a parent better than anybody else.
00:06:15
Speaker
And people should be listening to her. And it's she's doing the world a disservice not being public with how to be a mother. Yeah. And they think there are people that...
00:06:26
Speaker
That find by people not doing the same things or not emulating you that they're actually going against you or. yeah Or even like you're wrong if they don't follow your path.
00:06:38
Speaker
Taking offense to it almost.
Impact of the LDS Church and Family Vlogging Culture
00:06:40
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah Absolutely. I have a weird, everybody knows I have a weird soft spot for Kevin, but I also am furious at him all the time. It's a weird thing.
00:06:51
Speaker
But I think it's it was sweet that he was the first subscriber. Oh, I didn't even notice that. thats Yeah. Kevin, ever supported, claimed the honor of being the first subscriber. Ruby was the second.
00:07:03
Speaker
And I, about to turn 12 and caught up in the excitement of this new family venture, eagerly claimed the third spot. Wow. We admit yeah have to admit that we begged all of our family, We sure did.
00:07:15
Speaker
Might have been my mom that was the first.
00:07:19
Speaker
I like, so and talking about how the LDS community kind of is a perfect match. ah She wrote, in many ways, family vlogging is very LDS aligned pursuit.
00:07:32
Speaker
A natural extension of the traditional practices, vlogging offers a modern form of bearing testimony and keeping personal family records while simultaneously engaging in passive missionary work.
00:07:47
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. and what I was going to say is, as we've, you know, we've talked about a lot on the podcast and in part one of this, as we're talking through everything that happened with Ruby Franke, how influential the LDS church really is. And it was early 2010s, maybe even a bit late, late aughts, that the LDS church was really pushing for your personal familial testimonies to go digital so it could reach a wider audience. So in in large part, so many LDS families even today do this because the LDS church tells them to.
00:08:28
Speaker
I mean, it had incredible foresight by the LDS church. Yeah. It was a perfect match for them. And I do believe that they have and been able to get through to a lot of families. And that is one reason that the family blogging with them has been very successful.
00:08:47
Speaker
Yeah. And the ah one part of me, the optimistic side says it is, um you know, the LDS church is heavy into documenting your own family and your journals and And it's because, um you know, anyone could end up being the prophet. Any normal normal guy in the street could end up being a prophet. You want his his or her journals well kept so they can be historical documents.
00:09:09
Speaker
The other side is they're just trying to get more members to get the money from the members. So LDS Church, they're pretty smart sometimes. Yeah, and they've always been focused, like the genealogical records. yeah That's always been a big part of their tradition and maintaining those.
00:09:29
Speaker
And I think at one point, I mean, Ruby even points out that this is will work as somewhat of a, i guess, scrapbook yeah for her kids in the future to be able to look back on.
00:09:42
Speaker
Which really is, is um like, my kids were all over Facebook, and it was kind of for that same reason. was like, I have this, like, huge digital record.
00:09:54
Speaker
I'm now slowly deleting things and saving them. Yeah. and Trying to figure out what to do with everything. So they're not all over there. But that was a huge part of why millennials, I think, especially started posting everything of their lives. We we just were like, this is how you journal now.
00:10:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, sometimes when we do that, we curate it. And it's oh yeah maybe the best. And so maybe ah sometimes we we forget, maybe when we look back, we'll kind of forget a little bit the hard times. Because when you look back and you use your pictures as your guide, And we but we often don't take pictures of our... You don't take pictures of the stuff that you don't want people to see. No. And in fact, we we were just down in with my my boys and we were doing yard work and we were talking about we get a family picture every year. And I'm like, you know, for our Christmas card.
00:10:43
Speaker
And I'm like, we need to make a family picture of us grimy and dirty and sweaty and use that for our Christmas card. Yep. This is the reality. Yeah. Yeah.
00:10:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yep. All right. So chapter nine, baby climbs out of the crib. Yes. you want me to read the? yeah Yeah, you're better reading than I am I actually don't remember the exact moment when the cameras first started rolling.
00:11:10
Speaker
All I know is one day we were just a regular family going about our lives. And the next, there was a janky camera constantly pointed in our direction, documenting our every move for the consumption of strangers on the internet. Yeah.
00:11:23
Speaker
So the first video that Ruby posted was January 8th, 2025. It was actually footage ah from two years prior of the gender reveal of their sixth and final child.
00:11:36
Speaker
They're around the kitchen table. And I should note, like, it's just like a family home. It's nothing grandiose. It's just like a lived in, things need updating, but you just live your lives to type of family home.
00:11:48
Speaker
ah Much like mine. Yeah. I wonder, did they, in the first video, were were they talking about it as if it was two years prior or were they talking about it as if it's real time?
00:12:02
Speaker
Oh, I don't know. have no idea. That's a great question. I don't think we can find out anymore. I don't. Sometimes I wish we could. So, yeah, the one of their very first or I guess not very.
00:12:14
Speaker
Oh, I think I have the answer. i don't So in that first video, they don't I don't think at the time they talk about it being in the past, but the video like the scene shifts to Ruby holding the baby.
00:12:26
Speaker
okay okay So i'm i I think it probably, okay, yeah, then it says the video then cuts to my youngest sister now a toddler. So it seems like that first video is kind of like a clip show of where they are to get them to where they are now is what I'm guessing.
00:12:41
Speaker
Or then. She's pretty good. I mean, I'll give her that. That's, I mean, right from the beginning, that's, she's pretty talented at putting together these videos. Because it's not easy.
00:12:53
Speaker
And knowing what people want, that that baby content is always, you know, when people are looking for wholesome content, they're looking for creators and their children a lot of the time. And she, like, that first focus was the baby. Yeah. She knew what she was doing.
00:13:09
Speaker
So that first video was all baby, all kids. The second video was just Ruby and Kevin out with some of his work colleagues, I think. And it was her trying sushi.
00:13:19
Speaker
It was
Vlogging's Effect on Family Dynamics
00:13:20
Speaker
just that. And it was just like, okay. It was like, ah Sherry writes, picture this. Ruby out with Kevin's academic buddies, bravely facing down her first plate of sushi.
00:13:31
Speaker
Spoiler alert. She's not a fan. The end. So I think for like, I think seeing... Not even the reception because they weren't that big, but how interesting the interest levels of those two videos. She was like, all right, we lean into the kids. how awkward for his ah his colleagues, co-workers.
00:13:50
Speaker
Can you imagine? Yeah, right? But I can. I don't like sushi. I'm sorry. I can. I can. I just, yeah, I want i want to know, like, were their faces on? Yeah, can you imagine?
00:14:03
Speaker
Did they consent to be on the internet? Was that a thing in 2015 that you had to consent to be on internet? That's really funny. um But she says two weeks later, she, ah or a few days later, video number number three, she started introducing the eight passengers and started with Chad.
00:14:21
Speaker
um Chad was only 10 at the time, but little by little, she introduced the growing audience, the kids, and... Figured out where the money would come from. And ah quite early on, Chad was a favorite.
00:14:36
Speaker
Mm-hmm. But I do think it's interesting that she started with Chad and not Sherry, not the oldest. Yeah. Like, she already knew he was a cutie patootie. Right? I can't think of any other reason besides strategic.
00:14:52
Speaker
Well, I mean, maybe to maybe Sherry doesn't say this, but maybe she pushed back more a little bit at that time. I mean, she was 12, well Um, so I mean, maybe she, I mean, good Lord, you'd feel awkward and, um, kind of be a little bit, um understand what was going on a little bit more, um and be aware of your peers seeing your life. Um, so maybe she pushed back a little bit.
00:15:16
Speaker
Yeah, or just was maybe not even as much pushing back as not – more hesitant because she was more shy and maybe like the more gregarious kid was like, I'll do it first.
00:15:29
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, Because I think, you know, we start learning about Chad being a crankster a prankster and a clown. yeah And yes, I mean, Sherry early on just says she was much more introverted and and in her words, ought more awkward. Yeah.
00:15:43
Speaker
um So already – 12 years old when this started, Sherry almost immediately missed her privacy. Yeah, I think she, what did she say? I was beginning to feel like a sideshow freak.
00:15:56
Speaker
Step right up and witness Sherry, the amazingly awkward adolescent, in all her cringeworthy glory. Yeah. ah so Right after the worst part, the internet ate it up.
00:16:09
Speaker
Everyone seemed to love what Ruby was posting, which, of course, encouraged her to post more. Yep. It's just, yeah. I have a 14 and a 13 year old and I, I don't know. I just, as I'm rereading this, I'm just trying to think through of like, if like I was this parent and we did a family vlog and a kid said no, I'd be like, I, I would do everything I could to, to not.
00:16:35
Speaker
To respect that. Not. Yeah. To respect that, not post them. And it just blows. I don't know But at what age? I mean, at what age would a child say no I think it wouldn't be until they were probably in yeah about that 12 year old range.
00:16:50
Speaker
um I mean, I think younger than that, you don't even fully grasp what's going on or you don't think about the fact that people are viewing you and seeing you in these private moments. Yeah. that You know, that is all three of my kids have at one time or another said we should start a family vlog.
00:17:09
Speaker
And it was always like, no, absolutely not. But And then there came a point for my two oldest, my youngest hasn't said it yet, that they said, can you stop posting me on Facebook and Instagram? was like, yeah, absolutely.
00:17:21
Speaker
But that, yeah. And it was like those ages. It was like eight to 10. They, all three of them were like, we should do a, we should be on YouTube. And then it was like, 12 to now it was like can you like ask before you post me or can you not post me at all or you know nothing like ah nothing worse than I mean my husband will take pictures and post them like I look terrible in that don't put that up so um and this one we did one of the um videos was about sherry's piano recital
00:17:54
Speaker
And she says the first, but not the last time Rudy would take one of my most awkward moments and turn it into the story of the week. I know because we know already she she didn't love piano.
00:18:07
Speaker
And so now on top of it, millions of people are going to be watching it or not millions at this point, but still. And I can't imagine the pressure, pressure or the embarrassment that would go with that. And mean, we see, we see becoming more dehumanizing where we're She's more of a character. The kids are slowly becoming more characters in though in there right in their own home.
00:18:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So Ruby got super hyper-focused and treated YouTube as a business immediately. And within, I think it was less than six months, they hit that thousand subscriber mark that you can start monetizing content.
00:18:46
Speaker
And I do think that they, I mean, they they could use the money at this point. I mean, they were not. Yeah. poor by any means, but it didn't seem like they had a whole lot of extra spending money. And and yeah there's a draw to that.
00:19:00
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. There's six kids. Only one parent works outside the home. Only one parent's bringing in an income at this point. And yeah, this is, you just live your life, right? You just live your life and record it. And then you put it on the internet and you get money.
00:19:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Especially at the beginning, right? So after they hit their thousand subscribers, um their first viral video is posted. Of course, we didn't know it was viral at the point, but when they posted it, it went viral.
00:19:29
Speaker
And Ruby is thrilled She's like dancing around with her with the toddler celebrating and said it was the video of the baby climbing out of her crib and it went viral. Fifty thousand views and counting.
00:19:44
Speaker
And Ruby's like confused. She's like, that's a lot of people. Why are they watching us? And she kind of realized that meant things were going to change. um And it says, as the weeks turned into months, that crib video continued its astonishing ascent, racking up views by the millions,
Home Renovation and Brand Deals
00:20:00
Speaker
10 millions, 20 millions.
00:20:02
Speaker
And by the year's end, an unfathomable 50 million strangers had glimpsed into our lives. With that comes ah subscribers increasing pretty quickly.
00:20:13
Speaker
And ah she says, unfathomable reach from Louisiana to Laos, Kentucky to Kenya. It was surreal. Which I imagine, yeah, I can, I imagine that would have been. And overnight, your life would change.
00:20:27
Speaker
ah Side point on her child climbing out of the crib. Did she get that on camera? That's my question, too. Or did she? was like... did it i I imagine it happened, and then she was like, do it again!
00:20:41
Speaker
wondered that. um um So this is ah just joy. This is where the podcast recording ended. Okay. ah All right. So she says that, you know, watching the subscriber numbers go up. She's like, why do people care about these things? But okay. We're apparently interesting. Are you saying Sherry was Sherry? Yeah. Yeah. Ruby was i had own like relishing it.
00:21:09
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And she Sherry even thought, like, surely this will end soon. Like, why are people watching us? And that's when normal ended for ah Frankie family. All right. So on to chapter 10 called Remodeling Reality.
00:21:28
Speaker
I think this is very, yeah, this is where the channel really started encompassing and changing their actual lives on a regular basis. Yeah. Yeah. She opens the chapter with, as our YouTube channel evolved, so did our home.
00:21:43
Speaker
Ruby invested heavily in remodeling, every change designed to please the camera's eye. Goodbye, ugly yellow walls. Hello, stark white and bored batten. Sterile, but oh so photogenic.
00:21:55
Speaker
Ruby meticulously curated the porch, adding stylish patio furniture, plump pillows and atmospheric lanterns. We even removed the house numbers to avoid the hassle of having to blur them in the videos.
00:22:09
Speaker
The result was a picturesque facade, perfect for the camera, but perhaps a bit too perfect for real life. A visible symbol of our transition from an ordinary family to YouTube stars.
00:22:20
Speaker
So we go on and I find this really interesting because we see oh also a change in in Ruby and or maybe her parenting and the kids figure out how to exploit it a bit. Yeah, I do love that.
00:22:34
Speaker
Thankfully, I found a silver lining in this heinous new situation leverage. I figured out that if I wanted something from Ruby, later bedtime, a new outfit, permission to hang out with friends, my best bet were to ask her while the cameras were rolling. Mm-hmm.
00:22:52
Speaker
ah Ruby wanted me as her happy, smiling co-star. It was going to cost her a trip to the mall, a get-out-of-chores free card, a shiny new gadget, whatever I needed at the time. I'm so glad that she got something out of it.
00:23:06
Speaker
I know. And hopefully they all did. They all figured it out. But again, it's changing your relationship. It's... yeah making you more of an and and an employee of your own parent.
00:23:18
Speaker
And everything everything comes at a cost also. It's like, i need new I want a new outfit, so I'll do this video. and and It's almost like selling your soldier to your mother. But I mean, you can see how a kid would, like even just oh yeah a child of divorced parents playing one off the other.
00:23:35
Speaker
Yeah. ah Kids just figure that out. Then they start getting into brand deals. Yeah. Again, another change. Their first brand deal was with a slow cooker company. Yeah.
00:23:49
Speaker
You know, i I at least feel like if we ever got to the point that somebody wanted to do a brand deal with us, it's not going to be like wet wipes or like laundry detergent. I don't know. Yeah.
00:24:02
Speaker
You know, I would say that the brand deals that I see, or at least the advertisement I see from a lot of YouTube channels, I think they're pretty, most of the time they're pretty appropriate or they find a way to, but if anyone wants to send us anything ever and use it and give our word and be honest.
00:24:20
Speaker
I just, I'm trying to think, I'm like, I'm so glad we don't have like a mommy channel that we're like, these diapers are the best. Yeah.
00:24:30
Speaker
Yeah. And I don't know it was at this point, but they start getting like even trips and such paid for them. Maybe not right at the beginning. Maybe this was just still where there was. It's pretty soon.
00:24:40
Speaker
Like at least not like beyond brand deals, they started getting gifts and then that's when the trip started rolling in. And mean, I don't, I don't know because we've made a total of $30 and never doing this, but, but I do know that,
00:24:56
Speaker
You know, you make your YouTube money. But then the brand deals, I do think that is quite a bit of ah a bomb when you get to that. Yeah. So. Yeah, I think that's the big... ah What was the docu-series I just watched about the Stauffers who adopted a little boy and then, quote, rehomed him? An update on our family.
00:25:18
Speaker
Yeah, that's... it' The docu... The series is called An Update on Our Family. And it was this family vlog who... did this adoption journey thing and got everybody invested and then he was too difficult that it was it's oh my gosh but one of the things they say in the videos they are making is like we've lost brand deals and it's it's so that was i think that's like the biggest chunk of income that people can make is getting these brand deals oh my gosh well that's a terrible and it's
00:25:53
Speaker
so beneficial for the companies because they don't have to like hire you know an actor they just they play considerably less to an influencer to do it because to us like I don't know making 10 grand to talk about a product is huge for like somebody super famous it's like 10 grand that's say it yeah yeah yeah all right so we see the start of like the change in family dynamic though So Kevin, Sherry's father, has always been breadwinner.
00:26:28
Speaker
And I think Ishikusi says, I thought about dad who'd always been the intellectual powerhouse of our family, dedicating his brilliant mind to understanding earthquakes and making the world
Sherry's YouTube Venture and Family Tensions
00:26:40
Speaker
a safer place.
00:26:41
Speaker
Yet it was mom's newfound obsession with the internet that was finally bringing us true financial income. Yeah. And that's – I feel like in this – you know, in the the religious sense of their community, that's probably difficult to – when when the man's supposed to be the head of the household and working enough i'm sure to make it possible for the wife to generally stay home with the kids and then all of a sudden she's got a lot more power than he does and especially since that was the power dynamic she had the more yeah has always had the more dominant personality um but but that was his i would assume that it was his strength and he you know
00:27:23
Speaker
took solace in the fact that yes, he was head of the family in that, in that, right. Right. way This is his, this is his domain. He's the breadwinner. We do. I mean, we go back and forth on, a um, I know our opinions on Kevin, but yeah, you do feel for that change in dynamic here.
00:27:43
Speaker
And the fact that Sherry is so observant yeah of it and, um, definitely team seems to have a, um, Softness in her heart. Yeah. For her father or closest. Yeah.
00:27:55
Speaker
And I think she probably very likely grew up kind of in a similar way I did. off Not this, but I would internalize the feelings of everybody in the house and was hyper aware of shifting dynamics like that.
00:28:11
Speaker
And so that is definitely something I can see, even if she's only 12, being able to pick up on because I could do that. Yeah. and And feeling worry and sorrow for other people. I mean, I... It was more for me, it was anxiety when anything shifted, because that would mean negative feelings are going to happen. For the for those people or for... Right.
00:28:35
Speaker
For the people. And I guess it is like the sadness of, you know, she's she understands without him having to say it that he is uncomfortable at the least with this shift. Mm-hmm.
00:28:48
Speaker
And for me, I took that on. I don't, I think she, I don't know. Maybe she did feel like she took on that, that burden of other people's emotions because she certainly did for Ruby, but it was more like managing her own emotions to manage her mother's.
00:29:04
Speaker
No, I have a, um, I have a child whose, um, empathy is almost so overwhelming that it brings on significant anxiety, but it is also, it's, it's targeted or it's, um,
00:29:18
Speaker
in relation to how he thinks we will feel like, um, I feel sorry for you if so-and-so happens. and Like there's no, you don't, and like, I'm fine with that that. That's not something that don't, you know, but it's a lot of energy expenditure. It makes perfect sense to me.
00:29:36
Speaker
Like what you just, how he, uh, yeah, that is how I also feel. And it seems to be how Sherry feels a lot. It is very tiring. Yeah, true. I'm in therapy, everybody. It's fine. You're getting fixed.
00:29:54
Speaker
Okay. So a few months later, you know, they're, they're established as they're, they're established in the YouTube world. um On October 15th, 2015, pregnancy and infant and lost memory remembrance day.
00:30:08
Speaker
Ruby made a solo video discussing um her miscarriage and Sherry says she has complicated feelings. She said it's like a powerful video.
00:30:18
Speaker
Didn't go viral. On the one hand, she was happy that her mother was able to share this story. but But on the other end is like, she's always questioning the the exploitation level of everything, I think. But it's like, ah you're making a lot of money off of her.
00:30:36
Speaker
She even says like exploiting the unborn baby. That reminds me a little bit of, uh, Meghan Markle, when she did the piece, I don't know, for the New York Times or one of the large newspapers about her so her miscarriage and struggle with it.
00:30:52
Speaker
And I think the the mixed the reaction to it was mixed. You know, ah yes, I feel bad for you, but yeah, is this the right platform to...
00:31:05
Speaker
Or is it and something you necessarily have to be sharing with? Right. with The New York Times or whatever.
00:31:12
Speaker
They wouldn't run any stories about me. You never know.
00:31:18
Speaker
I also find it really interesting. I'm going read. Yes. Ruby's drive was bringing in money for her family and validation for her ego.
00:31:29
Speaker
But none of those superficial rewards could fix what was broken inside of her. Instead, it seemed to fuel a vicious cycle, pushing her to seek more validation, more views, more content, and often at the expense of the family.
00:31:47
Speaker
So she can never get enough. Yeah. And the validation that she got didn't fix what was broken. And it never will. You know, it's it's insatiable.
00:31:58
Speaker
So it just fuels it more and more. And there is something to say about, and this is even before we started like making content. If I posted something funny on Facebook and people like did the laugh emoji, there is like almost like a dopamine rush of like, somebody thinks I'm funny. Or it's so, it's just like, I get that even at that small level. Yeah. um But it takes a lot of discernment to be able to
00:32:30
Speaker
understand that that's very superficial that's not what's that's not going to fix anything that i agree i agree so on to chapter 11 teenage influencer this is where we start seeing sherry stepping up um and realizing hey if my mom could do this, so could I. Yeah.
00:32:52
Speaker
The way you say it, it's like similar to how Ruby approached it with her sisters. But for Sherry, I think she was smart enough to know, like, it's not about beating my mom. It's about setting myself up.
00:33:04
Speaker
Yes, I agree. To out, which is so smart. Yeah. No, it was for foresight for her. Yeah. And ah Not taking advantage of the situation, but seeing the opportunity.
00:33:14
Speaker
Well, it's just like, you know, I need to know outfit. I'll do this video. might We already have this established thing in our home that we record everything. I'm going to make myself my my own yeah money. Yep.
00:33:26
Speaker
Toward the end of eighth grade, when I was 14, I started my own YouTube channel for one reason, money. I saw what YouTube had done for Ruby. If this could pay for college and save me from working at the grocery store after school, I was all in.
00:33:40
Speaker
Although, I'd have to get Ruby's permission first, of course. That's where it becomes difficult. Yeah, yeah. That's where there's there's some tension.
00:33:52
Speaker
And I don't even know, like... Ruby's always searching for admiration. And it has to – I think she said yes because she's like, she wants to be like me.
00:34:04
Speaker
Right. She's following what I'm doing. But it comes with stipulations. Right. and And do you think there's part of it that – yeah She's concerned about her being more successful.
00:34:16
Speaker
Actually, don't think at this point. I don't think at this point. I don't think she could. i don't think Ruby believed enough in what Sherry was going to do to ever yeah to ever match her. yeah yeah And I also think if Sherry's channel was more successful than her so than Ruby's sister's channels, ah it's really sticking it to them too.
00:34:36
Speaker
ah hu That's good point. But Ruby wasn't going to give sherry An easy way out on this. Ruby would have to manage Sherry's AdSense, which is the platform of paying creators, so which is actually true. you can't like YouTube can't pay anybody if they're under 18, so the parents do handle that.
00:34:59
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I see that as – that doesn't seem out of the ordinary. not out of the ordinary. I think now um that a lot of like this age of family vlog kids are growing up and they're like, we didn't ever get paid.
00:35:15
Speaker
And I think now they're ah stepping in and there's, so I know in California just did some, did a law that it's like the Coogan law um that child stars parents have to put aside a certain amount of money. That's actually the child stars.
00:35:29
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, that is interesting. And I've always wondered exactly how that that works that isn't interesting yeah it was like the wild west it but it was just like uh you know back when there were black and white movies silent movie child stars and i forget his first name but last name is coogan he ended up playing uncle fester on the adams family tv show when he was an adult but his parents took every cent like he was a huge child star and had made an obscene amount of money for that time and he became an adult and was like okay i'm ready to go out on my own and he had nothing
00:36:04
Speaker
and so So, I mean, at least because I don't think that that Ruby was thinking a lot about putting aside money for the kids, especially at this point. um So I do think it is very smart of of Sherry.
00:36:17
Speaker
Yeah. So, but yeah. So ah she, Sherry was kind of thinking, okay, a little shout out for my mom. Yeah. Will very be very helpful, which is true.
00:36:28
Speaker
And Ruby came back. No way, Sherry. No shortcuts. No shout outs. You will need to get to 100,000 subscribers on your own, just
Teenage Complexities and Identity Struggles
00:36:40
Speaker
like I did.
00:36:41
Speaker
And then I'll give you a shout out on eight passengers. Yeah. I don't really understand this. I mean, I understand to some extent pushing her to be successful on her own, but kind of surprises me i mean,
00:36:57
Speaker
Yeah. Well, you know, the whole like debate about Nipo babies in Hollywood. And my thought was always like, you know, what it there is an unfair advantage if if, you know, one actor is just like trying to make it on their own and the other actor is somebody's famous daughter.
00:37:15
Speaker
I can't, i I mean, it's also the other part of it is use that, use that, use that when you can. Like, yeah, my dad is this person. It's going to open doors for me. They still have to get the job themselves, but like, I don't know.
00:37:28
Speaker
If they have the talent. and no It's one thing I suppose if it opens the door and they don't have the talent yes to to carry to carry through. But if they do... I mean, I hate to say it, but nepotism's everywhere.
00:37:43
Speaker
That's kind of where I am with it. I also would want to, i don't know, i and this is, we always say like what we would do. We're like, we're not Ruby Frank. Like, that just doesn't make sense to me because I'd be like, I want to give my kids every advantage. I want them to be hard workers, but if I have the means to give them some sort of advantage, I want to do that.
00:38:04
Speaker
I don't want my kid's life to be harder. ah Yeah, yeah. So I do find that very, very strange. And I could see how it be somewhat hurtful.
00:38:16
Speaker
Yeah. To share. And I wonder if maybe that was even a way of discouraging her from it. If maybe she thought she wouldn't do it then and then it's this challenge accepted mom. Right, right, right.
00:38:28
Speaker
And i do love anyone who says posting online isn't real work clearly hasn't done it themselves. Yeah. Yeah. I don't do, let's be transparent here. I don't do any of the video editing stuff.
00:38:41
Speaker
That's all joy. My research part is so much easier than your job. Oh, I don't know that, but I mean, we're lucky because we can break it up into, i think what we're a little bit better at. um But no, it's, it's hard. yeah And I mean, at some point you're like, okay, why, why, what's the motivation to doing this?
00:39:03
Speaker
But yeah, I, I love that she points it out because it, yeah It is still more difficult than I think people realize. Yeah. and We've earned our $30.
00:39:15
Speaker
But I can't even imagine. Like, she hates this. She says how much she hates this. And it is such hard work. And it has taken such a big part of my life that if I didn't enjoy doing this, I can't even, like, I can't imagine doing this knowing how much you hate, just hating doing it, you know?
00:39:34
Speaker
Which means I think she definitely knew that she needed to set herself up for the future. Yeah. Forsaw that it was go money was going to be ah held over her head.
00:39:47
Speaker
And I mean, I know yeah people in college, my kids' friends, and it's tough. that's what That's what happens is that's your parents' control over you. Mm-hmm.
00:39:58
Speaker
Yeah. um Something she probably had going for her and making it a bit easier is, you know, we're doing really intense things about different deep, hard topics.
00:40:11
Speaker
She could post a video that's like, which lip gloss should I use? And she doesn't care about it. She doesn't give a rip about it. She knows it's going to get views. So she like whips out this video. Bam.
00:40:24
Speaker
Yeah. So I hope she was... I hope that's what she was doing. Just just getting these out and get that money. later see yeah We'll see a little bit later that she her style changes with time. but Yeah. yeah yeah um She does say that she, to this day, has guilt for featuring her siblings um on her own channel. She said... ah The guilt eats.
00:40:46
Speaker
I posted twice a week. And like my mom, I exploited my own siblings, doing shaving videos with my sisters and talking about periods because I knew it would get views. The guilt eats at me now.
00:40:56
Speaker
But back then I was just following the blueprint Ruby had laid out. This is what people like. This is what makes money. The personal stuff. And, I mean, I don't blame her for at that point going down that pathway. Um,
00:41:10
Speaker
what yeah Like you said, that's what she saw. That's what she knew drew views. Yeah. And I'm glad, though, that she does recognize that it was exploitive to his her siblings and and that she does have sympathy looking back.
00:41:24
Speaker
Yeah. and And I imagine the siblings don't. Yeah. they're yeah at the yeah was they they It was how they grew up, too, you know? um So going on, one day, Ruby...
00:41:37
Speaker
brought her laptop to Sherry and showed her a comment. And Ruby was like, this is why we do this. This is the most important thing. This is why we are on this channel. And it was somebody who said that they were going to convert to the LDS church because of the Frankie family. And she says, God gave us this platform. And look at the way we're making, look at the difference we're making in people's lives, showing them the way.
00:42:00
Speaker
and the i she also says, you guys are so happy and loving and above all honest. And it gives me hope that maybe one day i can have that too.
00:42:12
Speaker
And that's sad. Well, and it's, it's gotta feel, we know how deeply important. Sherry's faith is to her and that people are coming to her faith from a facade, from lies.
00:42:29
Speaker
it just like, that's a whole other level. That's a whole other layer of this. I, I agree. And then it also makes me think, so what within the motive structure of, of Ruby with, with making, um, continuing this, uh, vlog, um,
00:42:46
Speaker
I mean, there's the, there's, I think her goals were number one, making money, getting recognition for her herself as a human being. And then, yeah and then sharing the LDS church.
00:43:02
Speaker
But I don't think those things are, are, I don't think the weight on those things are nearly equally distributed. No. and And I don't believe that her desire to bring people to Mormonism was for them. it was for
Sherry's Battle with Mental Health
00:43:20
Speaker
her. It gives her more clout within the faith, yeah gives her more recognition and better standing. So when Jodi comes along, she's already she's you know a bigger name in the faith already.
00:43:33
Speaker
I do have to say, though, Sherry one of the Sherry is very, very deep in her um her convictions of her religion and her faith. Yeah. Almost seems like among the most so in the family.
00:43:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think so too. um She gets ah some of the kind of religiosity level of things in the book. um But we talked a bit about this when we did the series on the podcast, the Hulu series.
00:44:01
Speaker
um They did not bring up the LDS church in a negative way, the Frankie family. And like the little conversation that there was was very surface.
00:44:13
Speaker
And so I think we, and we talked about this. We think that they probably, the Frankies were probably chatting. Kevin and Sherry didn't agree to do it if they were going to blame their faith is our guess.
00:44:24
Speaker
Agreed. Yeah. And then Sherry starts, um then she's starting to see the the change in people, how they are perceiving her at school. She's little popular now.
00:44:37
Speaker
Yeah. And what a, what a change. I turned startled to find one of the cheerleaders waving me from the coveted populars table.
00:44:48
Speaker
She was surrounded by her posse, a sea of perfectly coiffed hair and designer labels. She had never spoken to me before. And do you embrace that? Or does that make you feel uncomfortable?
00:45:01
Speaker
Or is that a little bit of both? When you're a teenager, you embrace that. She's smart enough to know it probably was a bit disingenuous, but still. She says, I, ah now that I was internet famous, I'm I'd become so interesting in their Yeah.
00:45:18
Speaker
When nothing has changed, it's their boring life. But she does notice a boy and the boy notices her back. And I think he falls in the popular boy category. Yeah. Yeah. I do think he liked her, though. do, too. I think it was um probably started a bit because she was all of a sudden Internet famous. But it does seem like it was a sweet little.
00:45:44
Speaker
No, it does. Yeah. Romance. But it created some jealousy amongst Amongst the other popular girls. And he's not LDS. And Sherry wasn't allowed to date.
00:45:55
Speaker
And it's the kind of the first time in her life that she kind of was like, well, I don't care. I'm going to. I'm going to anyways. Yep. She hid it from her family. huh But she did it.
00:46:07
Speaker
Yep. She ah started secretly texting him and downloaded Snapchat, which was a huge no-no. Yeah. But she says, this was a world. I felt like I was getting a peek into a world that had always been just out of reach.
00:46:21
Speaker
A world where I was free to be a regular teenage girl without worrying about Ruby's moods or the family vlogging business. Yeah. and Yeah. She's enjoying a normal phase of high school life.
00:46:35
Speaker
life And having somebody you' showing care about her, paying attention to her, validating her. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So we continue learning about Sherry's channel. She was not allowed to post anything unless Ruby approved it first.
00:46:49
Speaker
And she said it was a rigorous, it was rigorous to get this approval. She, when its says when Ruby said no to a post, it was usually selfies that other people would over-sexualize. That people could see and, I don't know, think bad things about.
00:47:10
Speaker
But you get the idea that it wasn't so much for Sherry's ah good and her concern. It was how it reflected on eight passengers.
00:47:20
Speaker
Yeah. It was to preserve the channel, not to protect Sherry. Because if it were to protect Sherry, they wouldn't be on the internet. Yeah, so...
00:47:32
Speaker
ah Back at school, as you mentioned, the girls are starting to get a little jealous of Sherry. I don't think it's just about the boy she's dating. I think it's also the internet fame thing. Mm-hmm.
00:47:43
Speaker
Kids at that age, so fickle. They are the worst. Yes. Not mine. My kids are the best. The other kids are the worst. They're bad. And i loved it. There was a and quote in here.
00:47:56
Speaker
The line between genuine parental concern and brand management. was often blurred in our household. Yeah. like I can see that. Yeah. Oh, so at school, I think it's at school one day, ah Jake and Sherry have their first kiss and it just seems like very sweet and a little awkward and just a normal first kiss for eighth graders. Yeah.
00:48:19
Speaker
a Can I kiss you, Sherry? He asked, his voice barely above a whisper. Her heart thundered in her chest. This is really happening. i nodded wide eye, tilting my face toward his. and love this You can close your eyes.
00:48:36
Speaker
Jake said gently. Oh, okay.
00:48:41
Speaker
I stammered feeling my cheeks burn hotter. It's just, yeah, it's just very, very sweet. But, you know, she's like grinning ear to ear on the walk home. And then she steps through the front door and Kevin says, your mother and I need to talk to you.
00:48:57
Speaker
And immediately she's like, they know. They know about Jake. I just had my first kiss and my parents know somehow. but But what it was is they ah had realized she had downloaded Snapchat without telling them. Yep.
00:49:10
Speaker
Yes. And Ruby is furious because nobody can disobey. They take away her phone and trade it for an old-fashioned flip phone. But she has the her little rebellious – I say rebellious streak. It's like the tiniest, adorable little rebellious streak that – When her parents weren't in the house, she would sneak her iPhone back out.
00:49:33
Speaker
And she said the the risk of that was worth the little taste of freedom to keep texting and Snapchatting with him, with Jake. Again, she three hundred reiterated that no social media unless it was approved by her.
00:49:51
Speaker
um and it even went on to say jeopardized everything or you could jeopardize everything we've worked for. put our entire
Public Perception vs. Reality
00:50:00
Speaker
livelihood at risk. yep and then And then Sherry said, no, of course I didn't mean to do that. I just wanted to be like a normal kid.
00:50:10
Speaker
And Sherry, we're not normal. We're public figures. Every move we make, every word say directly impacts our income.
00:50:21
Speaker
Can you try to wrap your head around that? That is so much pressure. yeah I feel bad if my kids know I'm like struggling to like they do this class trip and it's like we got to save like we have to put in work to put the money aside for it and I feel bad them knowing that and I just like oh like and just the line can you wrap your head around that?
00:50:45
Speaker
Probably not nor should she have to at that age. No child should have to. We've always tried to be honest with our kids that like We are not rich.
00:50:55
Speaker
We are fine. we and Anytime they whine about like, we still our old PlayStation 4 is about to die. and anytime they start like, oh, we can't get this. big hand We don't go do this. We don't do this. It's like, we just say, have you ever been hungry?
00:51:10
Speaker
Have you ever not had clothes? Have you always been warm? We're fine. Yeah. And so it's just like, I don't care how, like there are weeks that I've had to budget groceries down to the penny and my kids don't need to know that.
00:51:25
Speaker
Yeah. We've always been very open with our kids about finances, but never have they, they realize there's no pressure on them other than maybe you guys need to watch your spending a little bit more, which I think is fair and normal.
00:51:42
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:51:46
Speaker
This one's rough. This one's rough. I hate the name of this chapter. Chapter 12. well is titled I don't think my mother loves me. i sat at my desk journal open before me pen poised over a blank page the house was quiet the cameras were off and for once i had a moment truly to myself as i stared at the empty page a wave of clarity washed over me bringing with it a realization that had been lurking just beneath the surface of my thoughts for years
00:52:17
Speaker
The words seem to write themselves, stark and undeniable on the page. I don't think my mother loves me. I think in here she starts to recognize some of her emotional...
00:52:28
Speaker
um difficulties and psychological struggles. And she's now putting it together that a lot of that goes back to her relationship with Ruby. Yeah.
00:52:39
Speaker
And it's been like nothing comes from a place of just wanting of just giving, of love. It's all at a price. Every bit of anything Ruby will give her children there's a catch or there's a string attached to it.
00:52:58
Speaker
And I wonder if they all felt that way. I do too. ah I mean, we, we go on to learn more about Chad because he's an adult and can share that. We obviously in the, we'll see what happens to the two youngest children, which is beyond awful.
00:53:16
Speaker
Never really hear about the two middle kids and how, how yeah this impacted them. Yeah. I'm interested when they, because they're still minors. So when they, you know, become adults, if they speak, because I am, I have to be honest, like, I think Pam Botcher.
00:53:35
Speaker
Yeah. i think it's her. Pam. Because she's the one who had the two middle children, the two girls, when Ruby and Jodi had the younger two. And we'll be introduced to her soon, but yeah, yeah.
00:53:47
Speaker
Later, yeah. Yeah. I want to know what was happening in that house because I think Pam should be, I'm positive that Pam did something like Pam was one of, was so deep with them, with Ruby and Jodi.
00:54:05
Speaker
Like those two girls were not just staying at that house. And she was complicit if, if not. yeah Yeah. At the very least. But we'll get to that. We'll get to that.
00:54:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But just, I'm interested if, for me, if I were in their position, i wouldn't want to ever talk about it again, except having this like justice streak that Sherry has.
00:54:30
Speaker
If they have that in them, they're going to want to get to 18 and speak out about Pam. They're fully old enough to understand what happened. hu I'm sure obviously they're going to have to process it. Um, and then like you said, I'm curious at 18, how they, um,
00:54:46
Speaker
yeah if they tell their story if they want to Yeah. Because Chad doesn't have that kind of same, as we've seen in the Hulu series, he doesn't really have that same like Sherry is seeking justice.
00:54:59
Speaker
That's how I am too. I'm very much like when there's inequality in any way, I'm like, I've been like, I was that kid that was like, this isn't fair for everybody.
00:55:09
Speaker
Chad doesn't have that as much. So i'm i I wonder if they'll just be like, i'm we're done with this conversation or if they'll be like, we got to bring Pam down too. Yeah, Chad definitely has perceives it differently, even though he was, um other than the two youngest, and as it as it will go, he he there was a lot of, he took a lot of heat.
00:55:29
Speaker
Yeah. But yeah, he does seem to have moved on without the without wanting to share, I guess, his negative feelings as much.
00:55:40
Speaker
So yeah, Sherry's questioning why her mother doesn't love her. But also then YouTube comments start. Which, are so hard. Yeah.
00:55:51
Speaker
Yeah. ah She'd read the online words of strangers on YouTube who thought they knew me based on the careful edited snippets of my life.
00:56:02
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Ugh, Sherry, she's quoting one. Sherry is such a kiss-ass. She's always ratting out her siblings and trying to be ruby' Ruby's favorite, so smug.
00:56:15
Speaker
And I do remember, I never watched the show, but I do remember that that a lot of the feedback on Sherry was that like she was the perfect child. Yeah. and And almost like she was her mom's favorite in a way, which is so ironic because it was completely the opposite behind the scenes.
00:56:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And she wonders if like Ruby doesn't love her because she is reading those comments and agrees that she's acting out being perfect child. She's not actually the perfect child. She's just, which actually gets into connections stuff, which we'll get to later. And I, we, I would be the first to say, there is nothing harder than taking our little tiny channel.
00:56:58
Speaker
I've taken some heat and some negative comments and it hurts. It hurts very badly. And I know that, ah you know, some large YouTubers and that I personally am aware of, they, who are very sensitive They can't read their own comments.
00:57:15
Speaker
um And even with us, I'll have you read through them or you'll tell me when I should. Yeah. If I catch it, because it doesn't it doesn't cut at me as deep as you.
00:57:28
Speaker
Usually the ones that are the worst for me is I get mad if they say anything about you. Like that's when I like, because I have that justice streak. that's That's like when it impacts me.
00:57:39
Speaker
um i do i do like when you're like, oh, this guy was snarky. I'm unleashing you.
00:57:46
Speaker
like when you give me permission to to be a little snarky back. Snarky's fun. Snarky's fun. But we do need to always remember we're dealing with people. And yeah I don't know.
00:57:59
Speaker
But also, we're adults. Right. just say and we bring it on like it's it's We're choosing to do this. Yes.
00:58:10
Speaker
She is not. And how could anybody leave a negative comment about a child? Or why would you even feel the need? Right.
00:58:21
Speaker
That's what I guess I sometimes wonder. I agree with that. Just what is the point? I think so too. Yeah, I agree with that. So she works through this comment. She thinks through it.
00:58:33
Speaker
And she thinks to herself, I'm not sucking up. I'm surviving. There's a difference. Which her book, releasing her book, I hope is her way of expressing that to the world.
00:58:47
Speaker
And, you know, like we've said, she has said, this is it. I'm saying my piece and then I'm going quiet. Can you imagine being the person who left that comment and then reading this book and being like, oh my gosh.
00:59:02
Speaker
That's a good point. I never really thought about that.
00:59:06
Speaker
Well, they deserve it. Everybody just be nice. As she's working through this, she realizes that she is depressed. Yeah. And I don't, she said it was like an emptiness and she took a ah course on mental health in eighth grade and all of the symptoms of depression. She's like, huh, that all sounds like me. Weird.
00:59:30
Speaker
Yeah, she's recognizing it herself. And um she's she's reaching out. Yeah, this broke my heart. She texts Kevin and she says, I think I need help.
00:59:43
Speaker
She said to her dad, I don't know if I want to live anymore. And her dad responds. He responds like he should. Yeah, appropriately. Which is good. This is this is a moment where...
00:59:54
Speaker
You like Kevin. And you can see that Sherry feels she can be more honest and open with with him. Yeah. Because it says, as I walked home from school, my relief curdled into dread.
01:00:06
Speaker
Dad would tell Ruby. Of course he would. They always shared everything. United Parental Front. Which to me, ah she knows that a United Parental Front is Kevin backing down.
01:00:18
Speaker
yeah So when he tells Ruby that she very maturely and honestly came to him with this and is looking for help, she knows that her mother will fight against it or make her feel worse. Kevin sympathized.
01:00:38
Speaker
Yeah. She knew that her mom's reaction would be the reaction that settled it. Yeah. I mean, and I... I do that with my kid. Now, granted, they're older, but they'll ah you know ask.
01:00:49
Speaker
Like, well, you know, going to be like what dad said to my mom. You know who says the final word. well and But this is sad in that if it was something as serious as this, you guys would be a unit united. like yeah yeah And that's fair. I mean, that's fair that he that they would be a united front.
01:01:11
Speaker
In this case, it's hard because Ruby was not Right. The United Front should have been Ruby going, okay, what do we do? Yeah. And almost giving him the reins to rent to lead that.
01:01:22
Speaker
My husband and I are very, I think we're good about our kids, you know, vacillate with who they speak to, including my mom, too. My mom's included in that. We've always told the three kids that any of the three adults in this house, you can tell anything to.
01:01:36
Speaker
And... I generally, if it's something that the three adults in the house have to talk about, we'll be like, okay, like, to my husband, what did you say? what What did you say the next steps were going to be? We'll follow through with it with you. And like i mean, I think kids do understand that you are.
01:01:55
Speaker
United and you are going to share things, but at the same time, they still feel it's okay for them to feel comfortable, more comfortable going to um ah different member of the family for whatever it is that, that they, their concerns or their feelings. But they've never kind this it's like a positive spin on what Sherry's talking about because they've never questioned If we're going to work together, the three adults in the house. Do you know what i mean? Like, it's never been like, I'm going to tell dad because I know mom will say this.
01:02:26
Speaker
It was serious stuff. If it's like something teenagers do, like whatever. But if it's serious stuff, they're not going to like tell one of us and then expect us not to all be a team for their benefit, if that makes sense. And I think it's, I'm going I'm going to tell dad because this is something that's just easier for me to talk to dad about or is more in his wheelhouse or, but yes, then, then with the expectation or the knowledge that um even though they brought it to his attention first, that, Right. everyone will deal with it. And this is, I almost feel like she already has the knowledge that once Ruby knows, Kevin's just going to back down.
01:03:05
Speaker
And it's going to be about appeasing Ruby and not protecting the kids already. And this is something that's a big deal. This is her mental health. yeah This isn't just asking for a new outfit yeah and it's right yeah she's right and she's she's before ruby finds out like they have a really lovely conversation that kevin's like should you do therapy and she's so excited and Like he puts his hand on her shoulder and like guides her into the house. And, but then she's like, and then Ruby found out and dismissed everything and was like, don't be ridiculous. You need, yeah you need to sleep better, exercise more, eat right.
01:03:43
Speaker
But Kevin surprised me. No, he said firmly, we should let her see a therapist. This is serious Ruby. And so i think there is a very healthy surprise, but ah Sherry knows there will be consequences.
01:03:59
Speaker
For Kevin, probably behind coolers doors, Kevin probably got a throttling somehow, a verbal throttling. And what, mean, what parent with their child proactively came to them and said, I need to speak to a therapist. I am having these melts mental health issues.
01:04:16
Speaker
It's hard to believe. It's hard to understand how a parent would say no ah when the child got to the point of of actually yeah asking for it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:04:27
Speaker
So let's read the journal entry. This is Sherry's journal. Today was Sunday and mom has been acting like a little, can I swear on YouTube? S word? All day.
01:04:39
Speaker
She yells because I randomly shut down and shut everyone out. I'm not the one causing your depression and anxiety, she yells. Well, I hate to break it to you, mom, but you are.
01:04:51
Speaker
You're the root of it all, but it's up to me to deal with it. And I do that by ignoring you. It's easier that way. No anxiety attacks. No getting worked up and angry. It's just better to shut down.
01:05:03
Speaker
I feel more at peace when I tune you out and retreat into my own world. It's not perfect, but at least it's away from you. And you can understand her feelings completely. Yeah.
01:05:15
Speaker
And I'm not defending Ruby, but that would be hard. It is hard. Yeah. Yeah. At that point. Because you know what? i mean, ru they obviously, Ruby's got a lot of flaws and some very...
01:05:27
Speaker
controversial parenting methods but she loves her she's still her mom and um that still would be hard it's a hard yeah and i mean even if it's not a child relationship if you heard that you were causing somebody's mental health struggles like that's gotta to be crushing i do love the part where like she yells i'm not causing your depression and it always makes me think of when my kids were little and they're like screaming and i yell stop yelling that's funny And yeah, her parents were basically arguing if her pain was real.
01:06:01
Speaker
She knew that. um And for once, it seemed like at least Kevin was seeing me, really seeing me. That small realization felt like hope somehow.
01:06:13
Speaker
Yeah. Well, after um after this, Sherry starts speaking to her bishop and not for therapy, but confiding in him. And there comes a point that even he's like, this is a lot.
01:06:30
Speaker
She has this immense guilt about Jake. And the bishop's like, we've talked about this. You're okay. Yeah. I mean, and I is assume it it's pretty much about the fact that she kissed Jake.
01:06:43
Speaker
um I suppose she sees that As a form of sinning. Yeah. And it's like the moment you sin, you're not, is when ah Satan can be let in.
01:06:55
Speaker
If you're not, if you're not ah aware of it, as as long as as soon as your guard is down is when Satan enters. And he sighed, removing his glasses to rub the bridge of his nose.
01:07:09
Speaker
And this is where he says that she should talk to a therapist. Yeah. He encourages her to talk to her mom again about therapy. that And I appreciate this from ah religious leader.
01:07:23
Speaker
Remember, seeking professional help is nothing to be ashamed of. You don't have to go through this alone. And this is where she start she learns the the word scrupulosity. And it says, there it is in black and white, the relentless cycle of guilt and self-flagellation that became my constant companion.
01:07:39
Speaker
Yeah, because I mean, she she even says how she can't stop thinking about when I kiss Jake. But and not in a positive way. I feel terrible.
01:07:50
Speaker
Was it too passionate? i keep replaying it over and over in my head. Did I break all my promises to God? Does this mean I'm a bad person? It surprised me a bit that she went to the bishop.
01:08:04
Speaker
um Because it, you know, yeah up to this point, she talks about her faith, but she doesn't talk a lot about actually attending church or church elders and that sort of thing.
01:08:19
Speaker
So it did kind of, took me a little off guard yeah in a good way to know that she felt like she could go to the bishop and and to see how supportive the bishop was. Yeah. Yes, that was a that was a relief because generally in things like this, you'll read it went to the bishop and you're like, oh, no. Yeah.
01:08:36
Speaker
yeah What horrible thing did they say? And so then she starts she calls it religious OCD. Then she starts obsessively going to websites to see how to undo this.
01:08:49
Speaker
And it's basically like she needs a ton of therapy.
01:08:53
Speaker
But got to get through Ruby. Did I? I'm forgetting here. Did Ruby think that Sherry was going behind her back and with the bishop? Or did she never really know that that's exactly what was happening?
01:09:07
Speaker
i don't. It seems like she never really knew. Okay. Is my guess. Because I can't can't imagine she'd be okay with that or not. Or if she knew Sherry was going to the bishop, it wasn't about this.
01:09:18
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. Hey, everyone. So we just wrapped up ah recording our part two of Sherry Frankie's book, and we went for two hours.
01:09:30
Speaker
So we will be splitting this recording ah to give you guys little shorter chunks because two hours is a lot. So ah we didn't officially, while we were recording, break at any point. So consider this your interlude, and we hope you join us for part two of part two.
01:09:50
Speaker
you guys soon.
01:10:00
Speaker
you