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The Duggar Family and the IBLP, Part 3
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On today's episode, we talk about the many, many Duggar family scandals that led up to Josh Duggar's 2021 trial.
Check out our YouTube channel, Fixate Today: Grey Matters
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Transcript
Introduction: Hosts and Duggar Family Hyper-fixation
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Fixate Today Gone Tomorrow. I'm Nikki and I'm here with my Aunt Joy. We are two neurodivergent ladies who obsess about various topics. Joy is autistic and I have ADHD and we are letting our hyper-fixations fly.
Scandals Overview: Josh Duggar's Federal Trial
00:00:16
Speaker
Today we are fixating on the Duggar family.
00:00:30
Speaker
Welcome back. Hello. Hey guys. So today we are going to get into, we're going to dig a little bit deeper into some dugger scandals. We're going to dig into the duggers. Yeah. I love that podcast. Now Oh yeah. I feel like each episode is actually, and I didn't intend on this, but they're building up on each other for next week in the next few episodes. After that, we're going to talk about Josh Duggar's federal trial. All of this is really like laying out how we got there. Okay.
00:01:03
Speaker
I'm excited.
Sources and Influences: Books and Media on the Duggars
00:01:04
Speaker
Let's quick run through sources again. Primary sources. I used shiny happy people on Amazon prime, the book counting the cost by Jill Duggar Dillard, the YouTube channel fundy Fridays, the podcasts someplace underneath the leaving Eden podcast time suck digging up the Duggers pretty lies and alibis and behind the bastards. I used the Dugger snark subreddit.
00:01:32
Speaker
the website recovering grace and homeschoolers anonymous, NBC news and Wikipedia. So this one might not be as chronological as the last episode was. I kind of took it by scandal.
Jim Bob Duggar's Political Journey
00:01:48
Speaker
Okay, so the first Duggar scandal, I just titled Jim Bob's political career. The beginning of Jim Bob's political career is really the jumping off point, as we talked about last time, of the Duggars being public. That photo of them going to vote all lined up in their matching outfits caught the attention of the media. In 1998, Jim Bob was elected to the Arkansas House of Representatives. He was reelected in the year 2000.
00:02:21
Speaker
And he lost in the primaries in a bid for the US Senate in 2002. He ran for Arkansas State Senate again in 2006. And upon that loss, he turned his focus to the show. He's like, I'm done with politics for now. In 2020, during his oldest son's trial,
00:02:45
Speaker
He ran for her Arkansas State Senate again in a wild decision. He lost and he has no further plans at this point for any involvement in politics. I think for a pretty rural area in Arkansas, I assume. Yeah, yeah. So Jim Bob stances on things.
Jim Bob's Political Beliefs and Controversies
00:03:07
Speaker
I'm going to just quick run through those. A lot of them are, I would call uh, against a lot of biblical beliefs. But I can say that for a lot of, um, people who claim to be Christian in government, I think they are more willing to vote how their constituents want them to than what possibly like the Bible actually lays out. That's just my two cents. So Jim Bob is anti-abortion, pro-prison, pro-death penalty.
00:03:41
Speaker
He is against hate crime legislation, pro-religion in schools, believes in reducing government business regulations, against affirmative action, wants to ease gun control laws, against healthcare for all outside of privatized healthcare,
00:04:01
Speaker
He's obviously, approach quote, traditional marriage, um doesn't believe in funding or tax credits for childcare for a working parents, because the women are supposed to be home, duh wants to, quote, redirect welfare funding to faith-based and community-based private organizations. Wow. A lot of hot takes. A lot of hot takes. A lot of things that don't sound like traditional Christian teachings. Yeah.
00:04:29
Speaker
Yeah.
Jedidiah and John David Duggar's Political Involvements
00:04:30
Speaker
So let's talk about some of the other Duggar sons have also at this point had very short lived political careers. Number one, because of their age, but number two, because they keep losing Jedidiah Duggar. He is one of the second set of twins in the Duggar family. He ran for Arkansas house representative in 2020.
00:04:54
Speaker
At age 21, he lost to Megan Godfrey, which I think it's funny, he lost to a woman, and he has no further plans for politics, which I appreciate. Some of his views, a little a little more tame and not as not as out there as Jim Bob's but uh so Jedidiah is pro-life he supports lower taxes very pro second amendment supports anti-government regulations calls for more support for veterans which is awesome very pro religious liberty
00:05:33
Speaker
Um, and also he is very dedicated to battling the opioid epidemic. However, only through face faith based programs. No, is he politically vocal at all anymore or you know, it's tough because I don't think they were allowed to be when they had the show. Okay.
00:05:51
Speaker
Um, I do remember, I think it was 2020 because I think it was during COVID lockdowns, one of the Duggar kids, and it might've been him, but I'm not, I can't remember. So his twin brother is Jeremiah. So there's Jedediah and Jeremiah, and I can't remember who it is, but, um, one of them like mowed the lawn to spell out the word Trump. Okay.
00:06:13
Speaker
So that was as politically vocal within the confines of like being a public personality related to the show that I ever saw. Creative art with the lawnmower. Right? I mean, I get it. We were all very bored.
00:06:30
Speaker
But they stayed pretty quiet. they They kept politics really out of the show. and okay And kind of their public life as well. So I've not really heard hurt them being very politically vocal.
Duggar Family's Political Silence and Public Persona
00:06:46
Speaker
Well, I mean, it's probably from a financial business point of view, probably a good move. Right.
00:06:52
Speaker
So let's talk about, this is the last Duggar in politics, um except for Josh, but whatever. ah John David Duggar, he is the second oldest boy. He is twins with Jana Duggar. He had a bit of a political career as well. He held position of constable from 2014 to 2022.
00:07:14
Speaker
I had to look up what that was, basically. Okay, I was just about to, I was just about to look that up. No idea. Can you tell me? Basically an unpaid sheriff.
00:07:26
Speaker
So he could arrest. Cuz I see people like driving around every now and again with the car that says, and I never knew what the heck they were doing. It's basically like a volunteer sheriff, but you have to be elected. When he was constable, he could make arrests, he could write citations and respond to accidents, which would be helpful to have people who can respond to accidents all over. Yeah.
00:07:50
Speaker
He was ousted. Is that how you say it? Oust, oust, ousted? Yes. That word in a runoff election. Um, like I said, not a paid position. So this is interesting. This is, we talked in the first episode about the alert Academy. This goes with that. Um, so this is not a political thing with John David, but it was a bit of a scandal, a bit of a Duggar, Duggar scandal. And we'll say Jana, John David, and John David's wife, Abby, are like some of my favorite Duggars, so this made me really sad. In 2019, Jana Duggar, John David's wife, Abby, and another IBLP TV kid, but on a different show, Lawson Bates. There was a show called Bringing Up Bates that was supposed to be like the second Duggars, but they're family friends. The Bates family's on the show quite a bit.
00:08:45
Speaker
They traveled with John David to the Bahamas after Hurricane Dorian to try to help clean up. And they were with a group called Medic Corps. Abby is a nurse, so obviously she could offer help with that. John David is a pilot, so he flew them. They brought their constable badges, handcuffs, and their guns. Oh, and a private plane? Are you allowed to bring your gun into another country?
00:09:10
Speaker
Apparently, if you're if you're a constable. I don't know. um They allegedly comedy or fuel and other goods. There were also allegations that they were belligerent to the people who lived there and other relief workers. And they primarily like set up their own office with air conditioning. They had Chick-fil-A and Krispy Kreme delivered. yeah like Just were like, I don't know, not helpful. Yeah, that's strange. Yeah.
00:09:40
Speaker
So that's that. All of this politics stuff, um I bring it up because it brings us to a bigger picture, this bigger group, and the point, I think, of the IBLP. And we've talked a little bit about this group wanting to be in government. Involved. Involved, yeah.
Generation Joshua: Influence on Youth and Politics
00:10:00
Speaker
yeah ah Playing a side role.
00:10:02
Speaker
And, you know, we've talked, well, we will talk about the Murdoch trials. We've but very much talked about um the JP and Micah Miller case. And, you know, these are southern, that there's just so much overlap in them. And there's you know there's a piece of politics in each and every one of them.
00:10:26
Speaker
um And then, of course, the connection of them being southern, you know, this is Arkansas, not South Carolina, but you can't help but see these patterns and wonder how how politics does play a role.
00:10:42
Speaker
And I, we didn't talk about it in that series, but with Ruby and Jodi also there, you know, a lot of members of the, of the Mormon church are yeah yeah in politics or attempting to be in politics for kind of the same reasons. So let's talk about this terrifying to me, this group called Generation Joshua.
00:11:04
Speaker
It is a Christian fundamentalist youth organization founded in 2003. The purpose was to encourage youth participation in government, civics, and politics. um So from an article I found called Homeschool Confidential, Leaving Generation Joshua by a man named R.L. Stoller posted in 2013 on the blog Homeschoolers Anonymous.
00:11:29
Speaker
He described the people who created this joshua your generation Joshua group as a group of adults who party too hard in the 70s and 80s and are overcorrecting with their kids. All righty. I loved that. It's kind of funny. Yeah. Quote, Generation Joshua is a metaphor. It is a rallying cry based on a ju jumbled amalgam of biblical stories with the purpose of inspiring conservative parents and their kids.
00:11:58
Speaker
So the biblical story of Joshua is Joshua led the Israelites children into the promised land after Moses disobeyed God leading the Israelites to wander in the wilderness for 40 years. Conservative Christians use the story as a metaphor for the U.S. People who kind of follow this homeschooling is tailored to create quote Joshua's who will take pick up the mantle for their parents. Parents are looked down on if the children kind of stray from this path. So that is in Jill's book, you'll see that ah she feels like Jim Bob treats her worse and is more disappointed in her than Josh Duggar because she
00:12:45
Speaker
wore pants without talking to him first or questioned him. She is seen as string is from this path. Whereas I really believe that Jim Bob and certainly Josh's wife believe that this is being done to Josh. Okay. Okay. Like he'll, he will be made a martyr somehow of this. He'll come out on the other side and take over the world or something. Imagine that. Okay. So this generation, Joshua, I'm a little confused about what this is. It's just a movement.
00:13:15
Speaker
Yeah, it's okay it's almost like a youth group. Okay. But it's a scary one. Okay. And I will say like many parents have the best intentions and think this is the best option for their kids. Like they're afraid of their kids repeating their mistakes. So as the author said, like they're overcorrecting because they made bad choices or what they see as bad choices and they just want to protect their kids from that. That is a lot of these parents. So I don't want to like paint all of these parents with a broad brush and be like, they are
00:13:46
Speaker
controlling their children. like Ultimately, they kind of are, but that's not their motivation. That's not their heart behind it. It's to protect them from maybe their past mistakes. I will say that. Okay. All right. Within this,
00:13:59
Speaker
There is this ah group, I don't know, it's it's related to this, called the Division of Homeschool Legal Defense Association, founded by Michael Harris and Mike Smith at Patrick Henry College. It's almost like and know it's almost like this team of of people who will challenge um when people try to regulate homeschooling.
00:14:25
Speaker
Yeah, interesting. A whole, yeah, legal defense. ah so And it's within the kind of this umbrella of the Generation Joshua. I think these two men were like raised in with those, I don't know if attending the groups or anything like that, but it was like what we can do is protect homeschooling.
00:14:41
Speaker
Well, and it's odd because obviously, if we have a legal defense um fund of sorts, there's a reason. There's a lot of court cases that must be. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Generation Joshua is usually made up of homeschooled teenage boys. I've seen pictures of girls. They actually have quite a few pictures of teenage girls on the website, I think, to ah not seem misogynistic, maybe. Like, we do accept girls, see?
00:15:11
Speaker
The group sees, I mean, and and I think across the board, these fundamentalist groups we've been talking about, see homeschooling is more than just an education. It's kind of like a we way of life. Right, yeah, exactly. World views, biases are part of the education, not allowing kids to explore things beyond what the parents want. ah And again, some of those reasons they think are protective. right Some of those reasons are controlling.
00:15:39
Speaker
um In this article, the author says, quote, one plus one equals two because God is a Protestant Christian deity who wants us to reclaim a fallen United States of America for his glory. Okay.
00:15:56
Speaker
A well-known product of Generation Joshua is former US House representative from North Carolina, Madison Cawthorn. He came from this group. He served a single term from 2021-2023. He lost renomination in 2022 in the primary. um But his the term didn't go great.
00:16:23
Speaker
peppered with scandals, including insider trading allegations, he was caught carrying a handgun at an airport, facilitating improper payments, and even a leaked nude video.
00:16:35
Speaker
wow and he looked at an upping coming represent like yeah yeah i mean i imagine the iblp was like we did it we got someone into Congress. We did it. It's starting. It's happening. As I recall, he was a good speaker and yeah, order. Yeah.
00:16:57
Speaker
Um, but you know, breaking those laws will get you sometimes. It did. Yeah, it didn't last, I think pretty quick. They realized he wasn't the guy. So colloquially it's known as Gen J, Generation Joshua. And it actually started as a web-based program. It was, it's sold as kind of a hands-on program for lessons in civics.
Homeschooling and Conservative Leadership Agenda
00:17:18
Speaker
They have actually been pretty active in getting some candidates.
00:17:22
Speaker
elected. But it's it's a younger group. It's a younger group. Yeah. um They'll kind of serve as almost like interns and they will go help help um different elections. and Okay. And the the group that does that they're called student action teams. And it's a group of teenagers from the Generation Joshua group that are sent to campaign and tightly contested political races. um Primarily, they're supporting candidates who are anti abortion, socially conservative and support homeschooling.
00:17:52
Speaker
Are these kids at the high school level or college level? Well, it's hard in homeschooling to know the answer. They're teenagers. um they're I don't know that they've like completed and gotten their GEDs yet. Or beyond that, I don't, I'm not sure. okay But like young adults. Generation Joshua has expanded to all 50 states. You know, some people that they, the candidates have credited their wins to Generation Joshua include Michelle Bachman for her 2008 House of Representatives win. They've raised money in campaign for people like Marco Rubio, Pat Rumi, Roy Blunt, and Ron Johnson. The nice, I mean, kind of the good thing is the candidates campaigns covered traveling food and lodging for the group. So like the candidates
00:18:39
Speaker
lean into these kids. And actually the teens like kind of in in exchange for like the lodging and food, the teens are given addresses and numbers to visit and call to encourage voting. Very interesting.
00:18:53
Speaker
yeah Yeah, it also feels like we have a couple, we haven't seen them in a couple of years. I guess they've aged out, but there were a couple ah young Mormon men who used to walk around our neighborhood. And they were so sweet. Like one time my son fell off his bike and they helped him. But that's what it that's what it feels like. Well, and the young young men were one of the contingents that were really in in our last presidential election were very important votes.
00:19:22
Speaker
yeah voting base that yeah, both parties. were Yeah. And you know, like, actually, interestingly, like, one of the things Madison Cawthorn encouraged was for teenage, like, especially conservative teens to drop out of college unless they were studying to become a lawyer, doctor or engineer. Like, we just need you in the streets, unless you're studying for these specific things that we also need. Yeah. But we don't need engineers or architects.
00:19:49
Speaker
No, no.
Michael Farris and Legal Defense for Homeschooling
00:19:51
Speaker
In 2017, Michael Farris became the CEO of a conservative legal action group. So this was the gentleman who was co-founded the legal representative group for homeschooling. And it's called Alliance Defending Freedom. And they played a large role in the 2020 attempt to overturn the presidential election.
00:20:11
Speaker
So this group has really come out since they were highlighted in the documentary series, Shiny Happy People. People didn't know about this group of kids who are being touted as members of God's army and are trying to kind of infiltrate the government.
00:20:27
Speaker
Former members um have been hired by politicians, White House officials, and judges, and they support and continue to support and push the quiverful position of married couples not using birth control in order to have large families that will quote, take America back for Christ. In my notes, I put from Christ and that is obvious typo. Like that's wrong.
00:20:50
Speaker
So I just want to clarify. So we're not saying that the Duggars are directly associated with these groups,
Duggar Family's Alleged Ties to Political Organizations
00:20:59
Speaker
correct? It's just that they have, their platform has brought light to the fact that these groups exist.
00:21:07
Speaker
Well, I would say yes and no. We don't have direct evidence that any of them were in any of these in the generation, Joshua, anything like that. I suspect, um, I know like certainly some of them have done alert training. Okay. I suspect a 21 year old running for anything in terms of politics is likely involved true in groups like this.
00:21:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I think. i I'm sure that some of these boys have, some of the Duggar boys have been a part of Generation Joshua, will never know for sure, because they will never say, because they know it's not great. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So it's never been specified. It's just a, but. Yeah.
00:21:53
Speaker
um And from that article I keep quoting, this I just love this and and the author, I think it's R.L. Stoller, basically said like the adults who are encouraging this are scared, like have inner children, like their inner child is scared of what the future will be like.
00:22:10
Speaker
And so quote, a lot of our subcultures message to us was to shut up and get in line. That makes us even as adults fearful of a former community's backlash. That is Generation Joshua. Okay. That's terrifying to me. Yeah. But that's that. Let's move on to our next scandal. Yeah.
00:22:28
Speaker
Okay. ah This one's, I mean, still really difficult, but a little bit lighter than trying to take over the world.
Michelle Duggar's Controversial Actions and Hypocrisy
00:22:35
Speaker
Michelle's robo call. Do you have any idea about this? Nope. Not at all. All right. So 2014, a year before Josh Duggar's scandals started to break. So just keep that in mind when we're thinking about um hypocrisy. Michelle records.
00:22:55
Speaker
Michelle recorded a transphobic robo call regarding some legislation related to transgender people. ah The call suggests that trans women using the women's bathroom and locker rooms will lead to sexual abuse of children. Weird, you know, because we know transgender women weren't the ones who molested Michelle's daughters. Her son did. So Michelle recorded this.
00:23:20
Speaker
for a specific. It was a bill. It was a bill. It was like supporting a bill. Okay. And it's just like, it's her little like, keep sweet baby voice.
00:23:33
Speaker
thing. We have to protect our girls in the locker rooms. Just let her live. We really are not trying to be a political um podcast at all. Not at all. It's just so not at all. There's just, there's no getting around some of this that explains the story. um Yeah. And just, you know, the blade at this time, they knew that Josh had molested some of their daughters. Like they knew this. Just some questionable decisions about bringing more attention to yourself in the midst of some of these. Yeah, right. Exactly. So all right. We'll move on from there. Um, this is a
Jana Duggar's Personal Life and Legal Issues
00:24:17
Speaker
smaller one. And I was actually like, I was so sad for this kind of scandal, but let's talk about the oldest daughter, Jana Duggar. Now her last name is Wisman.
00:24:28
Speaker
She was born January 12th, 1990, second child, first daughter, and twin to John David. She got married to Steven Wisman this past August, August 2024. She was the oldest child to get married certainly, um but she stayed living at home until the wedding. She did do a little tour. She had like a mini, ah what are they called? Tiny house on her parents' property. So like she had her own space. Like they did some sweet things on the show. Like they built her her own garden. ah thisney Like they kind of leaned into like, you're still home, but you're an adult.
00:25:05
Speaker
Um, but however, she was still home because she wasn't allowed to leave based on the principles of the IBLP. On the Duggar Snark subreddit, she is known as Cinderella Duggar because she's raised a lot of her parents' children. She was deeply parentified.
00:25:24
Speaker
um You could see it on the show. All the older girls were. All the older girls were put in charge of of raising these kids. They did homeschooling with them. like they did They took on a lot of that. There was a rumor, I don't know how much I believe, but it's possible. There was a rumor that Jim, Bob, and Michelle wouldn't let her move out until their younger children were old enough to take care of themselves. I don't know. They wanted to hang on to her as a caretaker. Right.
00:25:47
Speaker
This, we talked a little bit about, I had a conspiracy theory about a couple of conspiracy theories. So there are rumors that Jana's actually gay. I mean, she just got married, who knows? But there, I also am not pro guessing someone's sexuality. So I don't know how I feel about that. But when you mentioned like out of all these kids, somebody has to have a different sexual identity. It's like, well, there were rumors, but the bigger rumor that I actually kind of believe is that she may have been a quote, Gothard girl. I'm sorry. What does that mean? ah These were girls that Bill Gothard required to stay single and work for him at but IBLP headquarters. Okay. And so did she work at the? There are photographs of her with Bill Gothard um in Jill's book. She says yes.
00:26:45
Speaker
Um, Jana is like one of the more blonde adults, uh, dug her children as teenager as well. So she was, yeah, it, that is possible. And, and I think, and I could be wrong, but I feel like I i heard her read somewhere. These girls wouldn't get married and women because yeah, they're women now wouldn't get married until Bill Gothard said they could. So I would think number one.
00:27:15
Speaker
Jim Bob is still pro Bill Gothard, even though he's no longer the president. Yeah. And two, I, I, I would hope Bill Gothard would have the sense to not do anything inappropriate with one of the members of like the most famous family. Sure. Yeah. But who knows? How old is Bill Gothard now? Oh gosh. Uh, he was born in like 34. Okay.
00:27:43
Speaker
Oh, that's pretty old. Okay. Maybe 44. I don't know. I don't know why four is in my head. I think he's sitting. I think it was. Yeah. Okay. But when she was a teenager, he would have been, I don't know, probably in like 50s. I'll say a spry 70. No.
00:28:01
Speaker
Okay. Um, so there's that. So, but let's talk about Jana's scandal. And again, I feel horrible for her for this, that this happened at all. It happened around the time of Josh's arrest.
00:28:16
Speaker
families in a tailspin like this was just horrible thing that happened and it was a mistake and it just sucks um because she has been parentified. Jana was 31 when this happened, still living at home, um September 9th, 2021. Jana was charged with a misdemeanor count of endangering the welfare of a child.
00:28:36
Speaker
She actually pleaded not guilty for this ah pretty shortly after September 23, 2021, actually had a trial scheduled. So like, at the same time, Josh's trials going on, another Duggar trial got scheduled. The charge alleged that Jana engaged, quote, in conduct, creating a substantial risk of serious harm to the physical or mental welfare of a person known by the actor to be a minor.
00:29:03
Speaker
And she actually faced up to three months in prison and a thousand dollar fine for this. Okay, so I'm sorry. Are we talking about one of her siblings? Probably or nieces and nephews. Okay. Because she watched her nieces and nephews quite a bit too. Okay. um So the incident occurred when Jana was caring for multiple children on her own at the family home. I heard that she drifted off to sleep. I don't think so because she was on her own with a lot of kids, but There were enough kids that a child managed to wander outside alone. A person saw the child, didn't know who they belonged to, so called the police. There was a written citation followed up with child welfare, um ultimately determined to be an accident and the child was unharmed. She changed her plea to guilty December 2021 before it could go to trial and she was fined $880.
00:29:59
Speaker
Now, the reason I feel so bad that this happened, number one, it took attention away from like Josh's trial, which needed all the attention for actually causing harm to minors. But the real reason I feel bad is because this poor girl, who is not much younger than me, and she's a woman now, but like she has spent her life caring for other people's kids. And her parents have done horrific things.
00:30:28
Speaker
in not protecting their kids. And she's in charge, who knows, I don't know how many kids, multiple children that she was watching on her own means. A kid wandered out of the house that she lost track of when she was watching many kids that aren't hers on her own. Like she's just, it just sucks.
00:30:49
Speaker
I mean, quite honestly, that just doesn't even seem like that weird of a thing, quite honestly, much like ah like a criminal act. right I mean, I can see extreme negligence, but I mean, that could just be a kid playing outside. right I too far to get a ball or something. and Yeah, I don't know. And I would, I would think that the charge would go to the parents who left multiple kids with her I don't know, like it just, it's a thing like she made one mistake.
00:31:25
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I would think it would be, ah okay, return the child home, makes gid right make sure doesn't happen again, but to that which makes me think it's almost the timing of and well and the timing of it with Josh's trial. Like, I don't know. Yeah. Just take some attention away. yeah that that doesn't that That just doesn't seem like like a legitimate reason. Right. Right. And she was actually really like she released a statement that said something like she acknowledged like this happened.
Jill Duggar's Post-Show Challenges and Family Struggles
00:31:58
Speaker
It was blown way out of proportion. But and but in that statement, she said something like but I understand why the follow up was necessary. Like I get it. Yeah. And it was like fully taking accountability for like I messed up. I lost a kid. Right. Like, I don't know how many
00:32:15
Speaker
parents lose kids in grocery stores and stuff like I don't I don't know if the kid wandered a significant distance I don't I don't know but it just seems like a lot for a mistake that nobody was hurt nothing bad happened It seems strange. And this, this poor woman has raised kids her entire life and none of them are hers from a very young age. So if that would just, that one makes me sad. Is she still in the but well with the family and the yeah inner circle and all that. Okay.
00:32:45
Speaker
Yep. Yep. Um, I think she's moved out of state now that she's married. I think her husband lived in another state, which I hope is really great for her. so say that seems a good good thing All right. So let's talk about our next big one, which we, this is, uh, I want to talk about Jill Duggar Dillard.
00:33:03
Speaker
We've talked about her book quite a bit. This is the one I want everyone to read called Counting On. Jill was born May 17th, 1991. She is Jim Bob, Jim Bob. Jim Bob and Michelle's fourth child, the second daughter. She married Derek Dillard June 21st, 2014.
00:33:26
Speaker
Um, today, as of today, they have three sons who they've kept off of social media. She recently had, um, a miscarriage, but like she had to give birth to the baby and things like that. And so that was their little girl. Um, so that was, that was upset. That was very bad, but.
00:33:46
Speaker
public i mean Are they ah on a show? or is there and what What are they doing now? or is it Do they have a social media following? They have a pretty decent social media following. Derek, at the time of Josh's trial, was in law school, so I don't know if he's... I think he might be a lawyer now. okay Um, she stays home with the kids, um, but they're pretty like regular. Derek has had some iffy stuff on social media, but like they send their kids to public school. oh my god I know, but they, you know, they, they're trying to keep like, I don't know, kind of a low profile ish life. I think they've even cut back on social media. Okay. But I think all of these Duggar kids who are doing social media are getting are at the point that they can make some money from it. Right. And so for some of them, it's kind of like a livelihood thing.
00:34:35
Speaker
Right, right. Especially with no other education. Jill became a certified professional midwife in Arkansas in 2015. After that, her mentor's license was actually revoked.
00:34:49
Speaker
and Do we know why? I don't don't know why, but ah she doesn't hold the certification anymore. um And she was present for a good deal of the births on the Duggar shows, even when she and Derek, they were actually fired from the show for some of Derek's terrible tweets.
00:35:09
Speaker
Um, but I think Jim Bob was one of them out of the show. Okay. And so even despite like when they were off of counting on that show, Jill would still be on the episodes when any of her sisters were having a baby or even her sisters in law. Okay. Okay. So after Josh's scandals in 2015, which is our next batch of scandals we'll get into.
00:35:32
Speaker
Jill identified herself as one of his victims in a Megan Kelly interview. During the interview, she claimed that she didn't know she had been molested because it happened when she was sleeping. And that her parents told her about her brother's confession. She said that the release of police records, re-victimized her because the police records about this were leaked. Okay. Cause yeah, they're minors, right? Yeah. Yeah. So they had been, they were leaked, I think in touch magazine. Okay.
00:36:02
Speaker
and And which I think is true because they actually, the the for daughters three or four daughters that were ah molested by Josh actually ended up suing because they said this was so traumatic that the records were released, which I believe. fair yeah And she said that she was concerned that families would be scared to seek help because they saw like their names got released and things like that. Today, however,
00:36:27
Speaker
Jill regrets that interview. And I don't blame her. She says she was coached. And in her book, she said Josh was present in the room with them during the Megan Kelly interview. Oh, Lord. Oh, my gosh. ah So, yep, her abuser was in the room when she was telling the world she didn't feel like she was abused.
00:36:52
Speaker
It is believed there was a lot of pressure for them to go so lightly on, ye yeah, to downplay anything that had happened to them. Yep, exactly. Jill's husband, I think, was released from Counting On because he had a bunch of transphobic tweets about another TLC star ah jazz. I mean, we're going to, you because you're going to get into this, right? I think a little bit, like, it's pretty straightforward. So I could just tell you, like, like all this and um So there's a ah show about a transgender, I think she's an adult now, um, woman. So at the time she was a teenager, um, jazz Jennings. And it's about kind of like her family and, and exploring her transition and, it looks like for her family and you know all the things. um And Derek said a lot of pretty terrible things. I don't remember exactly, but just like, I don't know, your basic kind of bigoted interpretation of biblical stuff relating to transgender um people. And he he like very he tweeted it. He was it was like,
00:37:59
Speaker
I don't know, very like hot take type of tweets, which are my least favorite thing in the world where somebody just thinks they're being like witty and they're just being a jerk. Yeah. That's why I do it, especially when you're involved with a semi controversial family to begin with. Just, you know, it goes into your thoughts. Just keep them inside.
00:38:18
Speaker
and So TLC released him from the show because Jazz Jennings Show is a TLC show. So it's like, you're you're making us look bad too there, buddy. And at the time this was happening, Jazz was a teenager. She was underage. So like a grown adult's going after a minor now too. So that's that. ah um Pretty shortly, not that that, I mean, it's bad, but Again, I kind of feel like if Jim Bob wanted them to continue on the show, he would have stopped that from happening. Yeah. You know what I mean? Kind of like the way the people against Bill Gothard, if they really wanted him to stay, they would have kept him. Yeah. So in 2017, Jill also, ah she dropped out of counting on.
00:39:05
Speaker
she's done. Okay, at this point, who's on counting on all of the other older kids, the adult kids. So it's not just in Jill counting on anymore, it's just counting on it's like following any of the older kids who let them film like their weddings, having babies like their life after being kids in the house. Okay.
00:39:23
Speaker
So Jill's book was published in 2024. She openly discusses Jim Bob's use of patriarchal beliefs and how that led to the financial and emotional control over the entire family. She flat out says TLC paid to complete the construction of the Duggar's current huge house, paid for their groceries, ah trips, interior designers,
00:39:51
Speaker
ah furniture and appliances. The trade off was Jill had to sacrifice her privacy. um The whole world saw her courtship with Derek, her wedding, her births, even though she didn't want her birth to be on TV. Definitely draw the line there. She was seen as being difficult when she would try to set boundaries with the production company. Like she didn't let them go on her honeymoon and they were real bad to her about it. And I'm supposing her dad didn't take her side on these matters.
00:40:21
Speaker
Oh, no, no, no, no, no. The but I mean, like the main theme of the book is like she felt an obligation to deliver content because that was what made her family money and supported the huge family. It was kind of a remnant of the that IBLP umbrella of authority that Jill still felt like she was under Jim Bob's control, even though she was an adult with her own family. And financially, she was ultimately. Well, it doesn't seem like her father. I'm sorry.
00:40:48
Speaker
her husband was fighting against them being more independent. No, he was pushing. He wanted more independence. He was encouraged. He did. Yes. He's for all for his shortcomings with like the short sighted tweets about a teenager. yeah He's very protective of his family and like Okay, he has been most even more than Jill. He has stood up to Jim Bob, the most of anybody. He's a he's a thorn in Jim Bob's side. Okay. All right. So I was just making assumptions after the No, he is. He
00:41:22
Speaker
He's very encouraging and supportive of Jill. If you watch shiny, happy people, he is there as a support full stop. Yeah. Yeah. OK. And like any time it's true support. I mean, it's. je Yeah. Yeah. So I will say that for sure about him. Jill said that she was required to tell producers about her pregnancies before she could share the news with anyone else because these moments had to be filmed. Goodness. When she.
00:41:50
Speaker
said she didn't want to give birth on camera, like her mother and her sister-in-law Anna TLC pushed back. So with her first pregnancy, it was agreed that her sister, Jana and her mother would film some of the birth themselves. And the birth, it was 70 hour labor that ended in C-section. Oh my God. Yeah. I saw some of that video. It looked miserable. Yeah.
00:42:15
Speaker
So in 2017, the birth of her second child resulted in a ruptured uterus a and it was filmed. And this is why she left the show. Okay. This is why she was like, we're done. I'm not doing this. However, she had unknowingly signed a contract that locked her into the show for five years.
00:42:39
Speaker
And this is, she's still not getting paid, right? She's no compensation for this, yeah. She thinks that she is because she uses her father's accountant. Oh, okay. So that it's just like not being touched. like Okay, okay. So Jim Bob had left the contract on the counter and told her she had some paperwork to sign the day, oh, this was the day before her wedding. I thought it was her wedding day.
00:43:07
Speaker
in 2014. So in 2016, Jill and Derek were living in El Salvador and had declined to return to the US for a promotional shoots. Were they basically doing missionary work? Yeah, missionary work while he was doing law school stuff. there was some like I think he was able to do law school kind of online.
00:43:28
Speaker
okay they were doing a lot, of like setting up, they were doing good things in El Salvador, let's say. When they refused to return for the shoots, this is when they learned about the five-year contract they had accidentally signed. And Jim Bob guilted her into carrying the burden for the family's livelihood. It was all on her shoulders. Oh my God. And he he and Michelle showed up unannounced in El Salvador.
00:43:57
Speaker
to get them to come back. And still, at that time, Jill hadn' hadn't seen a copy of the contract, even after learning she had signed this document. It was also revealed that Jim Bob never paid his kids for the time on the show. um After Jill and Derek started questioning Jim Bob about you know being paid, he offered each of his adult children a lump sum payment of $80,000 only If they signed a contract with his company, his, he has his own production company. I don't really understand all the logistics of that, but yeah they had to like sign a deal with his company required constant availability for filming, including the Duggar grandkids. So if they accepted the money, Jill and Derek's kids would be on the show and a lifetime NDA. ah So.
00:44:51
Speaker
Also with this contract, Jim Bob warned Jill against, quote, stirring up contention among the brethren by talking about the contract with the siblings. So isolating the siblings, not allowing the adult siblings to discuss any of these things amongst each other. So maybe they're all, there's different terms. Right. Or different amounts. Right.
00:45:20
Speaker
Jill was pressured by Jim Bob and several of her siblings to sign and take the lump sum. um She refused and in a move that I don't fully understand, I want to say it's because he's a dad who loves his kid. I suspect it's not that reason, but I don't, I don't know. ah He eventually gave her the $80,000 despite her refusal to sign.
00:45:45
Speaker
That's a lot to ask for, for $80,000. Well, Jim Bob's accountant allegedly told the IRS that Jill and Derek were paid. So they, and, and that 80 grand, where they got paid, but they didn't say it was 80 grand. They said it was 130 grand. Okay. So whatever taxes, however, Derek wasn't able to get a loan for law school because their income had been reported too high.
00:46:14
Speaker
So with this, Jill demanded the $50,000. So if you told the IRS you paid us 130 grand, I want the extra 50 grand. right right Jim Bob responded with an itemized list of costs associated with raising her, including education, utilities, clothing, food, and her $15,000 harp. Jill estimates that Jim Bob made around $8 million dollars from the show.
00:46:43
Speaker
And that she even the book laid out like how much money her storylines made him. Hey, is is this before after she wrote her book? This is in the book. All of this is in the book. No. OK, so I'm just like so she was allowed to write a book after like they the end. They like they kind of she didn't she never signed the end. So that's why she was able yeah to write her book was because. Yeah. OK. Right. She refused to sign it.
00:47:08
Speaker
um So she made Jim Bob all of this money and then Jim Bob wouldn't help pay the deductible and expenses of the hospital stay for her first child despite the episode alone making more than enough money to like easily cover it.
00:47:24
Speaker
ah Um, Jim Bob did eventually pay Jill a total of $175,000, but she feel like this, uh, this like payment broke her relationship with him. And then subsequently Michelle and her siblings in the book, Jill says that she is more ostracized from her family than Josh. She says Jim Bob took her decision to wear pants or, and pierce her nose. She has the little nose, like the tiniest little nose stud.
00:47:54
Speaker
but Jim Bob took that as sins against God. ah Jill says, but actually probably sins against him, not really God. yeah She found out that Jim Bob keeps Google alerts on all of his kids and was furious when he learned about the book. I can imagine that. ah huh and she started sending He started sending her Bible verses about honoring your mother and father.
00:48:19
Speaker
So up to this point, though, he's got they've maintained good relationships with the no, maybe not Josh, but they I mean, yeah, yeah, like she's I mean, Jill's is about the worst. Yes, yes, exactly. For someone not in prison. Right. Well, it seems that her relationship with her parents is worse than her older brothers. Ultimately, Jill and Derek were banned from visiting the the big house unless Jim Bob was home, saying that she was negatively influencing her younger siblings.
00:48:49
Speaker
And the biggest mic drop in the book is when Jill reveals that she in an attempt at a therapy session yelled at her father, quote, you treat me worse than you treat my pedophile brother. Oh, yep. So that hurts. Uh-huh. And it's true. So recently for Christmas, a photo was posted of Jill and Derek at the big house having Christmas with everybody. And Derek was talking to Jim Bob and like all of this stuff came out that like,
00:49:19
Speaker
All these rumors like Derek is back down and likes Jim Bob now and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And Derek took to social media and was like, listen, when I'm there, I avoid that man as much as I can. Somebody took a picture of him sitting down next to me and trying to talk to me. Good for him to clarify. it Yeah. So that is where we leave them.
00:49:40
Speaker
when Jill had the ah miscarriage that she had to deliver the baby, there were, there was a lot of pictures and posts. They were very open about it and both of her parents were there with her. So like, there's some encouraging things at the end of the book. The book ends with her, with Jim Bob kind of say like she had her third baby and him asking like, can I hold him? okay And like, so I, you know, I don't know. It's just, it's sad. It's a really sad breakdown. And i hope um I hope Jill and Derek are able to maintain their boundaries, but I hope Jim Bob does a lot of work. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, I'm surprised it isn't worse with more of the family. Yeah, I know. Who knows, you know, behind
00:50:30
Speaker
closed doors. And then through it all, Jim Bob and Michelle, they're good. theyvo Yeah. so yeah guess Michelle does whatever. And actually in the book, Jill doesn't really speak badly about her mother.
00:50:46
Speaker
There's one point that, um, like she wants, she wanted to see the contract she had signed around her wedding and Jim Bob wouldn't bring it. And I think that's the one that like in the middle of the night, there's a knock on the door and it's Michelle with the contract being like, just take it and like running back to the car. So I don't like Michelle Duggar, but I feel like she's in a really bad spot.
00:51:10
Speaker
with that relationship specifically. And I'm sure, and Josh too, we'll get into that when we talk about his trial, like she's nowhere near trial. I can't wait to hear about that one. And I think for a couple of reasons, but yeah. All right.
Josh Duggar's Public and Political Image
00:51:21
Speaker
So speaking of the trial, let's talk about the oldest Duggar child, Joshua Duggar. It is very important that the Duggar, Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar's first child was a boy.
00:51:36
Speaker
Thank God. Right. He was treated as the king. He was going to carry the mantle. He was the all of their hopes and dreams were on their boy first born. So keep that in mind. He was homeschooled. Obviously, he got his GED at age 16 and did not attend college. The family's foray into reality TV started when he was like 16, 17.
00:52:04
Speaker
His wedding to Anna Keller was broadcast in 2009. It was one of the biggest episodes of 19 kids and counting in the history of the show. And the couple saved their first kiss for marriage. So there is a scene where Jim Bob and Josh are sitting down, having a father son talk on his wedding day and he hands them the pamphlet and says, you need to know, ah this is what you need to know about, about, uh, your wedding night. So.
00:52:35
Speaker
We talked a little bit about how, you know, these, especially girls right don't know what their wedding like night is going to be. This was a big act. This was set up for the show because Josh had been watching pornography for years. And that scares me for Anna, especially on that first night because All Josh knows about sex is what he has snuck around to see and is not realistic. I did see a clip that clip um of that moment of the talk with Jim Bob. and Even in that, Josh seems a bit snide. Yeah, that's the perfect word to describe him.
00:53:18
Speaker
So I listened to this forever ago, right around the time I think of the raid, maybe this podcast called, Oh, it was like, it's like, I pray you put this journal away. And it is a man who was friends with the Duggars, like grew up with the Duggars was in this religion and him and his wife. So he's, he's reading from his journal.
00:53:38
Speaker
And i he had a crush on Janna and like stuff like that, like he was in their world. And it was a lot of like he was younger than Josh and like was like kind of put him up on a pedestal because everybody did.
00:53:53
Speaker
And he's like, he's just snide and he's arrogant. And it's a lot of like, he's really smart, we'll see. Like has always been really good with computers and would like show up. Like anytime someone would come over, he'd be like, look at this computer I built and stuff like that. So like, yeah, even this like kid who knew him as a child, he was just like arrogant and snide, yeah. And I'm still really and surprised that none of them went to college.
00:54:21
Speaker
I mean, even the boys, right? Yeah. Well, they don't need to. Okay. Yeah. You don't need an education to take over the government. That's kind of true. I will say on the wedding broadcast, this moment has stuck with me since watching it in 2009. The camera, of course, follows them to the hotel room and they do the trope of like slamming the door, the hotel room door in the cameraman's face, being like, get out of here or whatever. And as the one pulling the suitcase.
00:54:51
Speaker
Josh doesn't have any luggage. So she's in her wedding dress dragging along her the rolling suitcase. Oh, that's funny. So that's any indication of how the marriage is going. Back to back to this. Three of Josh and Anna's seven children were born on TV. Anna's first and second, I think, labor and deliveries were why Jill didn't want to be televised. like she's ah Labor is ugly. It just is. It's labor.
00:55:18
Speaker
And Jill's like, I don't want to do that in front of everybody. And I think Anna just it feels like she has to say yes to everything. Ever. So Josh is another who has been active in politics. In his political work, he's described his family as quote, the epitome of conservative values. In 2004, Josh worked on longtime family friends, Jim Holtz campaign for US Senate.
00:55:48
Speaker
Jim Holt is an important name. Um, his wife actually testified at the trial. I will say I didn't, I don't have this in my notes because this happened after I took all my notes. Um, Jim Holt and his wife, Bobby have divorced her citing abuse. So it's everywhere here. So back to Josh though. Holt blamed his loss for us Senate on quote sin in the camp. Hmm. This was very vague, obviously.
00:56:19
Speaker
the There's a possibility that Josh was looking at pornography during the campaign, and that was the sin, and that's why Jim Holt lost. So Josh had actually been betrothed to Holt's daughter. So this is like a step before courtship. This is almost like the arranged part of it. So how old are we talking about Josh being at this time? He was born in 88.
00:56:45
Speaker
And it's 2004. So 16 ish. Yeah, I think so. I don't do math. I have the Duggar information in my head. well i don't yeah i don't yeah so that um ah he So I graduated in 03, I was 17 when I graduated. I'm three years older than him. So like, like 14. Okay. So after the loss, Jim's loss, the Holtz immediately call off the betrothal.
00:57:15
Speaker
They had courted the year prior. Well courted, like they had gotten to know each other. It wasn't even like courtship level yet. And they were both, I think his daughter's name is Kaylee. They were like 14 and 15 when their dads were like arranging this. I feel like we're in medieval times here. I know. So also at this time is when Jim Holt and his wife, Bobby, I'm going to say it wrong. Cause her name is spelled B O B Y E.
00:57:42
Speaker
but it's Bobby. And then it's confusing because his name is Jim and her name is Bobby. And then we're also talking about Jim Bob. So I'm going to do my best. But every time I see her name spelled, I want to say Bobby. So I'm sorry if I do that. That is my ADHD brain not processing. So at this time they learn about the details of the molestation allegations of Josh and his sisters. And this is why they call off the engagement.
00:58:10
Speaker
i can't say that word it's it's I mean, so here's what here's what I think. I think that the Holtz knew about the allegations, but Jim Bob and Michelle played it, like downplayed it hard because they did that even after it was leaked. And Jim Bob and Michelle downplayed it probably because they thought going on this campaign with the Holtz would help him. So I think the patrol though was not canceled because of the molestation allegations. To be fair, I don't think they knew all the details. I think it was because
00:58:41
Speaker
Jim lost and blamed Josh looking at porn. And no longer needed him. Uh-huh. Yep. All right. Back to our kind of timeline of Josh. In 2007, Josh worked part-time as a political consultant for the Strategic Political Services, which is ah ah one of the PACs that helps elect people. 2008, he worked on Mike Huckabee's primary campaign.
00:59:09
Speaker
2012 he spoke at rallies for Rick Santorum. So he's really like making the connections at this time. So he's married, has kids at this time. So 2013 to 2015 is when he was made the executive director for the Family Research Council and his family, um him, Anna, and their four kids moved to Washington, D.C. ah The description of Josh's role is, quote, engaging in the grassroots and taking the message of faith family and freedom all across America. um And it's, it's most likely that Josh's appointment was an attempt to appeal to younger people. So say, yeah, it sounds to me like he's a figurehead, unknown personality. And yes, but he was getting paid a lot to be a figurehead. And, you know, we talked a little bit about this, I think last episode, he's taken from his like sheltered rural life,
01:00:04
Speaker
at Arkansas homeschooled, put on this huge pedestal, like raised as like the future king. He deserves all of this, all of anything he wants. You know, he's raised with that entitlement of being the first boy. i to say Yeah, he's already had that entitlement. And then this is just feeding into it. Well, there's that. And then there's going from this small little town to Washington, D.C., where he is out of his league, but doesn't think he is. Right.
01:00:34
Speaker
thinks he's entitled to like the things that come with big city 11. Yep. So about this time is when the molestation allegations actually come out we've alluded to it quite a bit. um But we'll kind of get into it here.
Josh Duggar's Scandals and Family Response
01:00:46
Speaker
The allegations are the molestation occurred about 2002 2003.
01:00:52
Speaker
And it was five girls, four of whom are his sisters, and one of the girls was a babysitter, a family friend babysitter, were inappropriately touched by him. It happened when the girls were both sleeping and awake. One of the big issues was that the girls didn't understand that this was inappropriate because they weren't taught anything about sex. And they were being raised under purity culture.
01:01:21
Speaker
So I didn't, I mean, they probably, I'm sure like had, even as kids, you're like, this is wrong. But like, they didn't know better that it was wrong. And they're just not as prone to speak up anyways. Right. Right. Exactly. So in March of 2002, Jim Bob and Michelle learn what is going on.
01:01:46
Speaker
um July 2002 is when Josh actually admits it to his parents like he comes to them and confesses. I'm curious about those couple of months what was going on if they were like caring about their kids. Is this ongoing? Or is this they they make it sound like kind of it was like a one time deal. But it sounds to me like there's it was for sure ongoing. Like I don't I don't know between the time that like those couple of months that Michelle and Jim Bob learned about it. But it it was not a one time. No, it was not. No.
01:02:14
Speaker
After Josh admitted what was happening, he was, Michelle and Jim Bob claimed he was disciplined at home and police weren't told there was no report at that time. March 2003, Michelle and Jim Bob learned of some additional victims. So I think when he admitted it, he said it was like one of the kids one time or something like that. Like he very much downplayed it. And then they learned that he was actually not telling the truth in that.
01:02:40
Speaker
So they, Jim Bob spoke to the church elders at the time and Josh was sent to a teen reform camp for three months. The answer to everything. Uh-huh. It is a Christian ministry. I believe it is under the IBLP and he had to do physical labor. That was how he learned, I guess, I don't know. But if you'll go back to, I believe it is the first TV special. You, when you, we see Josh, he has his head shaved.
01:03:10
Speaker
this was shaving his head was a consequence of this behavior was like one of his punishments for molesting people was shaving his head at the camp because they from his parents or this is part of the whole I believe it was from his parents actually such a weird thing with the whole head shaving thing I know but I think it's also biblical but It seems like when they got the TV special, they had to bring Josh back to be a part of it or else immediately questions would arise about why the oldest child wasn't there and it would blow everything for them. So all of these things happened before they even had the first special. Okay, so the public doesn't know. So TLC. About the reform camp and all that. But TLC and Discovery did.
01:04:06
Speaker
hu Okay. So later, Michelle would tell police that Josh was in counseling. That wasn't this reform camp. And it, I don't know if that's true. If he wasn't counseling, it was like related to this camp, I think. So July, 2003, Jim Bob has Josh meet with a former Arkansas state trooper and family friend, Joseph Truman Hutchins. This is the first incident of any police involvement.
01:04:35
Speaker
and So Hutchins sternly spoke to Josh, but does not report the conversation. Hutchins has since- No, something seems fishy here. It was like a scared straight, it feels like okay like. Talk to this officer and then you won't do it again. Hutchins has said that that the Duggers downplayed what actually happened, which I actually believe, yeah i'm sure even though Hutchins is a terrible person, because he has since been sentenced to 56 years in prison for child sex abuse material charges. Oh my Oh my.
01:05:11
Speaker
a All right, let's move to 2006 to 7. December 2006, the family was slated to appear on the Oprah Winfrey Show. An anonymous source emailed Oprah's production company and called the Arkansas Child Abuse Hotline with information about the molestation. It is Oprah's producers that called the Department of Human Services, and they also canceled the appearance. That's good. Yeah, so Oprah did the right thing.
01:05:41
Speaker
um At this time, police begin investigating. Jim Bob and other family members claim no incidents since 2003 and all feel safe in the home. And the statute of limitations have run out anyway. So police investigating doesn't really matter.
01:05:56
Speaker
Yeah, because there's still, well, I guess Josh is out there, but I mean, there's still younger kids in the home. Yep. Let's fast forward to 2015. Via Freedom of Information Act request, In Touch magazine gets a redacted police report. In May of that year, they published their story. Josh resigns from his position at the Family Research Council.
01:06:21
Speaker
The victims say they feel re-victimized by the unauthorized release of the reports. June 2015 is the infamous Megyn Kelly interview. Jill and Jessa spoke with Megyn Kelly about the molestation. We talked a little bit about the St. Jill section. She regrets this now. They defended Josh and mostly they expressed their anger about the reports being released.
01:06:49
Speaker
Yeah, they very much downplayed that the events themselves. Yeah, yes. They were coached too, to protect the the little King Duggar. And Jim Bob and Michelle defend their actions. They, again, really downplay it. They say it was only when he was a teenager, he was just curious. He, you know, has done all this work on himself, is counseling, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, and that was kind of that.
01:07:16
Speaker
until that summer with the Ashley Madison League. Ashley Madison was, I hope, I don't know if it's still around, was a website that married people could find other married people and cheat on their spouses with each other. Basically married people looking to have an affair was what Ashley Madison website was.
01:07:37
Speaker
August 2015, there is a massive data breach of ah from Ashley Madison that is posted online. And Josh Duggar's name is on the list. This is in the midst of all of this molestation things coming out. I mean, if you're a public figure on so one of these, or any to this type, do you not use an alias? He doesn't think he has to. Okay. He's entitled to yeah what he wants.
01:08:06
Speaker
He's been raised learning that over and over. He can do whatever he wants, and Daddy will deal with that. So um Josh paid nearly $1,000 for two subscriptions in February 2013 to May 2015. May 2015 being when the molestation allegations come out. He knew enough to cancel the subscription. That's a smart boy. He released a statement that didn't at all acknowledge the molestation allegations.
01:08:34
Speaker
where he admitted to cheating on Anna and admitting to viewing pornography. However, later when this statement, it was, I think it was up on the Duggar family website, it was that statement about viewing pornography ended up being removed. Five days after the leak, Josh checked himself into a quote, long-term treatment center called reformers unanimous.
01:08:59
Speaker
And it is a faith-based recovery program. So the last thing about Josh before the real big thing that we're going to talk about 15 million episodes about. Josh also has a pretty big sexual assault allegation as an adult. This guy. Uh-huh.
01:09:22
Speaker
November 2015, adult film actor Danica Dillon files a civil suit against Josh. She's looking for $500,000 in damages. She claimed a physical assault during the course of consensual sex at a Philadelphia strip club. He apparently got $600 worth of lap dances that night. Her allegations are really difficult. Like I don't even want to get into them, but it's very violent and okay.
01:09:52
Speaker
There's some stuff like he calls and apologizes like it's just it's gross. It's all bad. um There are allegations because Dylan ended up dropping the lawsuit amidst rumors of Jim Bob paying her to avoid a trial, which I fully believe and am fully in support of. Okay. If if he gave her a bunch of money to not talk about it, girl, get your money. Yeah.
01:10:16
Speaker
It would have been very hard for her to have to go to court and testify and relive it all. Yep. Yep. And it wouldn't have changed anything else that happened. I don't believe. um I think he probably, you know, ah women don't report because it's so difficult to prosecute. I don't think anything would have come from it. And we'd still be where we are. yeah This way she, you know what?
01:10:36
Speaker
Get your money. I'm pretty sure she had to sign an NDA, but she did tweet something very vague when he was convicted. So it's like, I, I believe her. Yeah. yeah i So we're going to end there. All right. Next time we will talk about his, we'll talk more about Josh Tucker. We'll talk about the child sex abuse material trial. Okay. And.
01:11:06
Speaker
Thankfully, like spoiler alert, he is in prison.
01:11:11
Speaker
All good, I guess. Kind of like saying, I look forward to not having a good time. Oh gosh. It's, it's a lot, but it's so much of this culture is evident in his trial. Like it's, it's like a little microcosm of everything that we've talked about so far. Yeah. Yeah. I see it over and over. Yeah.
01:11:34
Speaker
And it's like, they're smart, but they're dumb. Yeah, yeah. Well, even like the Leaving Eden podcast did, like I said, they did like an incredible rundown of everything. But even like they would say every day of the trial, which of the family was there and where they sat. And I was like, that's even indicative of the things in this culture. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Joyanna and her husband would sit in the back if she would go at all.
01:12:02
Speaker
And like Derek was there every day and like, you know, and sat at this spot. And so it was, it's so, it's so interesting. And it's so telling about, was that trial televised? No, no, it was not allowed to be televised. I don't even think reporters were in there. There was, it was shut down. Okay. Like no recording of anything.
01:12:28
Speaker
So the rundown was maybe reporters could be in there, but had to like hand write notes. Right. I think it was that. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, thank you all for joining us. All right. We'll talk again soon. All right. but Bye bye. Bye.