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Book Club: The House of My Mother by Shari Franke, Part Three, Part Two
38 Plays5 days ago
Welcome to part two of Part 3 of Shari's book! We continue looking at the rise of 8 Passengers and the escalation of abuse.
Check out our YouTube channel, Fixate Today: Grey Matters
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Transcript
Introduction and Book Discussion
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to our channel. We are continuing to go through Sherry Frankie's book, The House of My Mother. um We split part three into two parts. So it's part 3.2 we're on, I guess.
00:00:13
Speaker
um But we wanted to just pick up kind of right where we left off. All right. So let's dive right in.
00:00:31
Speaker
Chapter 19, Winning the Self-Loathing Olympics. The following week, I got on my first one-on-one phone call with Jodi Hildebrand. I took the call while sitting in the corner of my closet.
00:00:45
Speaker
I wanted to make sure no one could hear what was said. Oh my gosh, i could I could feel the exact same way. Mm-hmm. She's annoyed already. She's just like...
00:00:57
Speaker
Because she knows this is not going to be productive. She knows this is not going to be an honest, she's going to be yeah able to be honest and fixed or helped in any way.
00:01:07
Speaker
And she knows that going in. Yeah. And immediately, and this could also be like the hindsight thing, but immediately she, Jodi is, Sherry asks a question and Jodi answers with a question that cuts Sherry down and makes her question herself.
00:01:23
Speaker
And she says like, she tries to be a good person and Jodi's like, but are you a good person? And she's like, yeah, I think so. How do we even know for sure? And then she says to question yeah herself rigorously is a healthy start.
00:01:36
Speaker
It shows self-awareness. But it's questioning yourself down until it's all looking for your negative traits. Yeah. She says, i already do that. It's actually kind of a problem.
00:01:49
Speaker
And she says she's not asking herself the right questions then. And she said, then she explained how it's crucial in order for us to get closer to the truth about ourselves to identify every single way we are in distortion.
00:02:02
Speaker
In order to do that, we are going to embark on a new way of thinking, one involving radical self-honesty and rigorous personal inventory. Here we start to see how she's breaking people down. She's huh to focus on their negatives, on their problems, on their...
00:02:18
Speaker
But then at the end of the call, Sherry's like, i think our time's up. And Jodi says, hold on. I heard you've been saying some disparaging things about me.
00:02:29
Speaker
You were spreading gossip, lies, and rumors. Would you consider that to be compassionate behavior? Mm-hmm. So again... Nothing she can say is private. It always is being shared.
00:02:43
Speaker
She has can't trust in Billy, anyone in her life, especially her mother, when she comes out. Yeah. Sherry says, I mean, if it's the truth, I started feeling like I was walking into a verbal minefield.
00:02:56
Speaker
This is so nefarious. Oh, you're going to learn a lot about truth, Sherry. You'll love it. Chad does. And he's much better now, isn't he? Jodi said brightly, shifting gears.
00:03:08
Speaker
oh So what she does is basically try to change people's outward behavior. And when she can, then that's seen as progress, but not really getting to the heart of the issues is how I see it.
00:03:22
Speaker
Yeah. And also not caring about the heart of the issues. and It's like the heart of the issues will be changed when you start behaving this way. That shows we fixed you. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:03:33
Speaker
I don't know if we've talked about it. I don't know it's come up yet. But, I mean, Sherry does admit that outwardly there is improvement. Her mom's not as angry.
00:03:45
Speaker
Chad's more respectful. Right, right. Chapter 20, Dirty Laundry.
Therapy Sessions and Self-Criticism
00:03:50
Speaker
Weekly calls with Jodi became part of my routine, each session lasting about 50 minutes, a standard therapy hour, for which she charged my parents $175. Typically, our sessions were freeform conversations focused on analyzing my thoughts and experiences from the week before.
00:04:08
Speaker
Now, she does say Jodi never really talked about herself. Mm-hmm. And then even though she'd been very open about her history and books, I mean, I don't know. To me, that doesn't sound abnormal.
00:04:21
Speaker
I mean, do most therapists talk about themselves? I mean, I know. I mean, that's really not. I do think most therapists are do a good job of deflecting that. I'm just thinking back on my own therapist. I'm like, yeah, I know nothing about her life, but I've never felt that or that. Like if I ask how she is, she's never been like, we're not talking about that. Yeah. yeah like makes Like, I feel like that's something they get kind of taught. And this is more like a stone wall.
00:04:47
Speaker
Right, right, right, right. So Jodi's way of asserting domination is to get Sherry to open up about her flaws and her self-loathing.
00:05:01
Speaker
and But she calls it her distorted thinking episodes. and And Sherry, this was interesting. easy for her to do because that's sort of how she's always felt the insecurity about these things her whole life.
00:05:15
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Now this part is, I think this is crazy. So on their second call, Jodi asked her to start making a list throughout the week of her distorted thinking episode.
00:05:30
Speaker
And don't know if we want to get into each one of them, but can you just give a, you're pretty good at reading out some examples of what this was. I'll just do some of them. Yeah. Thought in black and white about that hard test seven times. Okay.
00:05:43
Speaker
Overgeneralized my abilities based on one bad grade two times. Personalized professor's general criticism of class performance three times. Discounted positive feedback on my essay draft three times.
00:05:58
Speaker
Engaged in should statements about my study habits five times. And so on. Can you imagine the amount of energy and time you have to put into thinking about these things throughout your day?
00:06:12
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And then to be like just immediately thrown down. She's like super proud of this work. And Jodi's like, you have issues with self-adulation.
00:06:24
Speaker
And they're all negative. And like is disappointed. There's no looking into or counting ah positive behaviors Yeah. um She's like, you you ah think about it, you're better than everyone else.
00:06:36
Speaker
Denigration's the opposite. And Sherry's like, I thought, if anything, I tend to self-denigrate. And then she says, but at your core, it's the opposite, Sherry. So she's telling Sherry that she thinks she's better than everyone else, which is like a fear of Sherry's to make people think that she feels that way.
00:06:54
Speaker
Yeah. Sherry lacks confidence, but then is being... chastised for and told that she has too much confidence. Yeah. Big circular thinking there. Right.
00:07:09
Speaker
It's just, then she had to write down every instance of self-adulation. And then she says to my horror, there are quite a few. But here's, here's Jodi picking up on, I mean, Sherry has come out and said, this is a problem I have.
00:07:25
Speaker
And so. Yeah. Then Jodi can manipulate it to be okay. Let's let's go further with that. Yeah. And it's stuff I'm just going to read the Tuesday one because it perfectly encapsulates everything.
00:07:36
Speaker
On Tuesday, Sherry felt superior for finishing the math test first, privately judged classmates for their music tastes, and believed she was more mature than her peers for enjoying documentaries. That's just kind of funny, actually.
00:07:53
Speaker
i Right? It's like those are such innocuous things. And it's not like she's telling everybody that she's superior because she finished the test. I mean, i but the whole concept of thinking one is better than another, I always think that that's more of a an issue for other people than...
00:08:14
Speaker
Within oneself. i mean I mean, I think I have traits that um like I am better than other people at, ah but then they certainly have traits that they are better. Yeah. i've just that That whole concept of, ah so I don't i don't like so-and-so because they think they are better than me. No, I think that's your that's kind of your insecurity. Yeah.
00:08:35
Speaker
I think it's it can be both also. Like I know i have I'm thinking of one specific relationship that I'm pretty sure. Like I don't think it's my insecurity. But it's – I can absolutely see how a lot of it can happen that way. that
Coping Mechanisms and Emotional Balance
00:08:52
Speaker
But does that say more about you or them?
00:08:54
Speaker
ah In the situation I'm thinking of, I don't know the answer to that. Any other time that I feel that way, I'm like, oh, it's all about me. Oh. Yeah. You need therapy. You need Jodi. Oh, gosh.
00:09:06
Speaker
come She can help you. too ADHD for, I'm like picking up my book and like, can I knit while we talk? I can't sit still.
00:09:16
Speaker
I can't listen to like, you're so boring. I'm so bored.
00:09:22
Speaker
I know sometimes you we you have the face of like, I swear you roll your eyes at me sometimes. Yeah.
00:09:29
Speaker
yes i yawn all the time but that is also i am so funny I'm so tired all the time. I'm sorry, guys. I'm so tired.
00:09:41
Speaker
That's funny. thats like I think I should always give the caveat that I'm not going to sit still. I'm going to be doing weird things with my face and just it is what it is. but but I do try to cut your yawns.
00:09:55
Speaker
I'm not bored. I'm so tired.
00:09:58
Speaker
Oh, Jodi would think I'm bored. She'd say, at your core, you're not you're not engaged in this conversation. and I'd be like, no, I just stayed up till midnight because I lost track of time doom scrolling.
00:10:10
Speaker
So, yeah. And then ah Jodi, I'm sorry, ah Sherry says, you know, how she felt about herself as Jodi suspected that she was an insufferable smarty pants, a teacher's pet and a grammar snob.
00:10:23
Speaker
Mm hmm. I think you have that little grammar snob. I do. um But I only take it out when someone's being mean. On the internet sometimes, one time somebody said, somebody said your word to something I said.
00:10:40
Speaker
And I said, why oh Y-O-U apostrophe R-E. and so I love that. I only do it retaliation. Love that. I love it.
00:10:52
Speaker
um So again, Sherry is told to make a list. hu And again, if you go around all day looking for what's wrong with you, isn't that the worst?
00:11:08
Speaker
Yeah. That's the opposite of what we're always taught to do. i mean, I like to spend my life going around trying to look for things to be thankful for or things to be that are beautiful.
00:11:20
Speaker
Maybe not things to necessarily... find that are positive about myself, but gosh, finding things, searching for what's negative about oneself would be. that Yeah. So the kids and I, my older two kids and I use this app and listen, if they want to do a brand deal, we've already used it quite a bit.
00:11:38
Speaker
It's called Finch and it's basically, ah it's an app where you have a to-do list. And every time you do your to-do list, you're like, feeding your pet, this like virtual pet. And it's like, but you can also do things together. so like my son and i ah it's like together every night before we go to bed, we list something we're grateful for and we can see when the other one's done it and like send a high five and stuff like that. But there's also stuff like say three good things about yourself or like breathe three, like take three deep breaths or stay
00:12:11
Speaker
take a stretch break. Like there's these little things. I just feel like my little finch is the complete opposite of Jodi Hildebrand. And my little finch doesn't yell at you. If you don't do one of your goals, you just start over tomorrow.
00:12:26
Speaker
And I'm guessing it's free. It is free. You can get a paid version. said So if they want to sponsor us, we'll get the paid version. But I just, I'm like, I'm on page 122. It says, Sherry, be humble. You're far less clever than you think you are. And I'm like, my finch would never say that.
00:12:44
Speaker
My finch checks in with me during the day and says, you are loved.
00:12:50
Speaker
I don't know. I think Sherry's very clever, which is kind funny. know. um Ironically, yeah. Jodi found that thing. Like, Jodi found yes that would hurt her. You're not that clever.
00:13:03
Speaker
But also at the same time, trying to turn that on her to say, that's your flaw that you do think. i I know. There's no winning. There's no winning. Yeah. ah Okay. So, ah so, okay. I'm going to, I thought about trying to navigate the world and Ruby's mercurial moods without the anchor of my mind, my imagination,
00:13:28
Speaker
My ability to compartmentalize and cleverly pretend like everything was okay. It had gotten me out of trouble so many times. So that's her coping mechanism.
00:13:41
Speaker
Yeah. You think that that's a problem? Or do you think that that's, once you find your own coping mechanism, that is, that in and of itself is not wrong.
00:13:52
Speaker
If it helps you to get through things. I think both. Because this is me. I can compartmentalize with the best of them. And this like this was one of the sentences that like got me in the gut because I was like, yeah, I do that.
00:14:06
Speaker
On the one hand, it is sometimes what gets you through the day. like If you just have to be a functional human being, sometimes you have to pretend and compartmentalize the one thing that's impacting everything, the one big deal, the one bad thing that's going on.
00:14:23
Speaker
And that I think is great. I think that's that coping mechanism to get you through that, to get you through like the your work shift or whatever is fine. But then it ultimately has to come out.
00:14:35
Speaker
It has to get dealt with. So that's the thing that, that's a lot of my own therapy actually. It's like you're allowed to compartmentalize, but then when you have a quiet moment, you have to face that thing.
00:14:48
Speaker
You have to think about it or you have to, You have to deal with it. and Maybe because I haven't had therapy as much, I feel like, well, if it works for you, to yeah that then it but then then do you have to? like If it works for you, it works for you.
00:15:05
Speaker
Yeah. The things that generally get compartmentalized are the things that are like, I can't do this right now. deal with this i can't this huge trauma has happened in my past for some reason it's coming up right now and i can't do this right now it's gonna get packed away my problem is forgetting to like that unpack the thing okay interesting but i'm i'm very good at if something if i if it was a there have been a couple days at work i just get screamed at by a patron i can put that away and like be an engaged mom
00:15:41
Speaker
And not let that, not let that can't like spill into this part. And I think sometimes actually does a disservice to my kids because they're allowed to see that I have feelings, you know, that it's okay for me to be like, i had a really bad day at work, but I'm happy to be here. Or like, instead it's just the, like, I'm happy to be here part, the day at work parts packed away until somebody goes to bed and everybody's in bed and I get in the shower and cry by myself. I guess I'm just very about controlled feelings and and this is probably bad, but I,
00:16:10
Speaker
kind of force my family to have controlled feelings but it works for me I don't know ah yeah maybe because it's I feel like suppressing emotions is always thought of as a bad thing but I that's that I don't think that's that's always true like I think it works for yeah me and so I guess yeah in the same way I guess if I feel like if Sherry found something that works for her I don't know I don't know Yeah. for For me, it's like i can ah suppressing the emotion to get through like whatever you're doing or to not let something you're struggling with impact like my right now.
00:16:52
Speaker
Yeah. do you know what I mean? like For me, I guess it's not suppressing emotion. It's controlling emotions. It's you being in charge of how you feel or react to something.
00:17:03
Speaker
I suppose that's what I say. Yeah. But the trick of that is is to be aware of if it's an emotion that doesn't have to be revisited or if it's something that you're not specifically not aware.
00:17:16
Speaker
engaging in. Does that make sense? Like that's the trick for me is I have to be like, oh, is this something that I need to kind of work through or is it okay that I am feeling okay about it and not.
00:17:29
Speaker
So that's, I think, kind of the trick. And that's why this like gutted me because I am i am the best putting the thing in its little box and then just leaving the box.
00:17:40
Speaker
And then all of a sudden ah something triggers whatever's in the box. I have an emotional breakdown yeah that's interesting it's interesting how we see that that same passage so differently yeah i'm like well don't a problem with yeah but um sorry that major tangent of our own but that's okay yeah i mean she said ah you know her gut tried to rebel against jody's methods but her mind couldn't refute the logic yep and uh she says i'm gonna tell ruby we had a real breakthrough today
00:18:14
Speaker
said Jodi afterward, I'm very proud of you, Sherry. So two things in just that sentence. All Sherry wants is her mother's approval and to her mom to be proud of her. And now Jodi is going to tell Ruby that she's proud of her.
00:18:27
Speaker
But the way she's proud of her is ah by stripping her down to her rawest, most vulnerable core so that my mom would finally approve of me.
00:18:38
Speaker
Yeah. And how could that be the answer? Yeah. Well, and then the second thing is just kind of a small thing, but pretty kind of a big deal. ah Why is your therapist telling your mom anything?
00:18:51
Speaker
Fair. Yeah. Yeah. It ends with Sherry saying, I guess I shouldn't believe everything online and thanks her. um and so she chuckled.
00:19:02
Speaker
No, we shouldn't. She said her voice dripping with the satisfaction of a predator who knows she has finally caught her prey.
Impact of Connections Teachings on Relationships
00:19:09
Speaker
Go ahead. Chapter 21, Jodi says.
00:19:12
Speaker
all right. Like Ruby, Kevin, and Chad, I drank the Connections Kool-Aid. More liked chugged it by the gallon. Within a few months of starting my one-on-one therapy sessions with Jodi, I was a card-carrying, insufferable Connections convert.
00:19:29
Speaker
obsessed with analyzing every thought that crossed my own mind, as well as every thought that crossed everyone else's mind too. As you can imagine, I was a real joy to be around. And every interaction became an opportunity for me to showcase my newfound enlightenment.
00:19:45
Speaker
But she did buy into this for, just despite um her skeptical nature. Yeah. She did buy into it for a while. Yeah. Which I think um in a way will open will help to open her eyes later to see how that could happen and how easy it is to buy a door.
00:20:06
Speaker
And I think that's where some of her compassion for her dad probably comes in. Yeah. is She saw it happen. She stopped it. i I love her self-thought.
00:20:18
Speaker
Oh, you think you did well on that test? That's just your adulation talking. Let's explore the opposite, shall we? How does it feel to imagine failing miserably? i know.
00:20:30
Speaker
I just like, yeah, she's insufferable the word. Put these negative self thoughts into your head to work through them.
00:20:41
Speaker
I do very much love her self-awareness now.
00:20:47
Speaker
Yeah. It's just she said she turned into a mini Jodi and was driving her friends away. Yeah. Looking for their looking for their ah flaws, basically. Yeah. And doing the exact thing Jodi told her she was bad for doing.
00:21:01
Speaker
She thinks to herself, we must be willing to sacrifice for our beliefs. I told myself every time I alienated another friend. Anyway, unlike me, they're all going to hell.
00:21:14
Speaker
And now she understood truth. I still can't understand what Jodi's version of the truth is other than doing what she said.
00:21:25
Speaker
I don't know either. um So we come to a particular story about one of Sherry's friends coming to her to confess to her that she kissed three boys over the weekend.
00:21:37
Speaker
But then she says, I was telling Sarah about it and she basically called me a whore. She said guiltily, what do you think? Oh boy, she picked the wrong time to ask Sherry that. Sherry asked her what her motive was for kissing all those people she said,
00:21:51
Speaker
she says motive they were cute why does there need to be some deep reason this is kind of ironic because sherry kind of went through this whole she did this herself at one point yeah but felt a lot of i was thinking the same thing self-hate don't know she felt bad about it she felt like she's saying yeah and uh i'm assuming sherry's not kissing boys that much anymore don't know yeah and she's just She is a mini Jodi. She says, her friend says, like, you're judging me. You're being so mean.
00:22:23
Speaker
And Sherry says, true growth comes from confronting our deepest flaws. Are you willing to do the work? and She says, get lost, Sherry. Who even are you anymore? ah And then a little bit later, it says, I guess she just isn't ready, I thought. She'll thank me later.
00:22:39
Speaker
She didn't. In fact, she never spoke to me again. funny. I remember being in school with a person, like with people like this who would like challenge the teacher on everything.
00:22:51
Speaker
Now, I would challenge the teacher. i keep talking about this justice streak I have. As soon as I saw something I thought was unjust, I was probably so obnoxious. I don't know. I think I can see you challenging the teacher.
00:23:03
Speaker
You could be like one of those people. It was not with schools. I didn't care enough about like school stuff. It was like dress code stuff. If like a teacher brought up a dress code thing, I was the first to like, this is unfair.
00:23:16
Speaker
The boys can blah, blah, blah. I was that kid. But I was not like, I don't, pick I don't, so I was not that kid. It was like, i in terms of like school stuff, ah like learning the things I was like hiding under the desk.
00:23:31
Speaker
so I was undiagnosed ADHD and was terrible in some things. Yeah. But if it was, yeah, if I felt something was unfair, everybody knew it. ah but So Sherry starts challenging her teachers.
00:23:44
Speaker
She tells the teacher something they read in class was a little babyish. She thinks she should be they should be reading harder things. And yeah, the teacher's just like, it's a well-respected text. It's age-appropriate.
00:24:00
Speaker
I'm the teacher. And she keeps pushing. To the point that she says, I think you're engaging in emotional reasoning, letting your positive feelings about the chosen cloud your judgment about its suitability for the class.
00:24:15
Speaker
Oh my gosh. And this is Sherry speaking. This is Sherry speaking, not the teacher. Oh my gosh. And then she says, boom, mic drop. Sherry one, teacher zero.
00:24:27
Speaker
He asked me if I was finished, which of course I wasn't finished. I'm just getting started. this is pretty funny i don't know how long it went on for in her life but i know i hope this was a brief period so yeah so her classmates couldn't believe her preachiness she says i could feel their silent pleas for me to just shut the hell up and let them learn in peace My teacher, fortunately, seemed to think it was all quite funny.
00:25:00
Speaker
Good. No, I remember being in and classes with, like, kids like this and just being like, there's 10 minutes left in class, bro. If you're going to make me be late because, like, the teacher won't dismiss us because you're engaged in a conversation, going to be so annoyed.
00:25:13
Speaker
Yeah. and But Ruby is thrilled. She calls her friend promiscuous, like for showing truth to your promiscuous friend.
00:25:26
Speaker
And then speaking about the teacher, she says, my sweet Sherry, you're so brave and clever. So she's finally getting the recognition from her mom. She's always sought.
00:25:42
Speaker
I'm so proud of the woman you're becoming, she'd say, her words filling me up like a balloon. I drank in this new and hard-won approval like a flower turning toward the sun.
00:25:53
Speaker
My whole life, all I'd ever wanted to was to be seen and truly appreciated by my mother. With Jodi's teachings as my guide, it seemed as though now I was learning how to access all that love and acceptance I'd been craving for so long.
00:26:06
Speaker
ah Finally, Ruby liked me. Some days, it almost felt like we were friends.
Family Dynamics and Parenting Shift
00:26:11
Speaker
And I think we've talked about this but before, the ah thought of being friends with your parents and Some people think that is a bad thing.
00:26:19
Speaker
hu I don't, but I think you can be a friend and still parent. I'm not sure that that's what was going on with Ruby, but no. All right, so we are on chapter 22, Burn It and Be Damned.
00:26:33
Speaker
Now, this ah chapter title is calling back to, in part one, the story that Ruby's family always so proudly shared about ah the widow of Nauvoo, I think it was, who a mob approached her house and said she had to disavow her LDS faith or they'd burn her house down. And she said, burn it and be damned.
00:26:53
Speaker
It was a huge heroic heroic tale that Ruby's family always shared that they had some sort of relation to her. So that was way back from part one. In 2019, thanks to the channel's continuing success, two and a half million subscribers and climbing, Ruby and Kevin bought a new house in Springville, just a block away from the first eight passengers' house.
00:27:19
Speaker
A far cry from our modest beginning. So we got this beautiful new YouTube purchased house. And I mean, I will say two and a half million subscribers.
00:27:30
Speaker
That's pretty crazy. That's yeah. So yeah, this new house. And I think they had pretty modest living conditions prior, but it's a three story home, a tree filled backyard. Yeah. Seven bedrooms and six bathrooms.
00:27:49
Speaker
They even had a ah new puppy. Yeah. She said it was gender divided levels of the house. The boys had the basement complete with their own bathroom, pool table, foosball table, and even a full kitchen.
00:28:02
Speaker
Although Ruby quickly commandeered it for extra freeze drying storage. That brings us more to that prepper mentality. Yep, says Ruby's two large freeze dryers ran ceaselessly, humming away 24 hours a day, preserving everything from leftovers to bulk bought sale items.
00:28:22
Speaker
Nothing was safe from their grasp. Leftover steak, vegetables on sale at the store, entire meals would be processed and stored away for some future crisis that lived only in Ruby's imagination.
00:28:36
Speaker
She even experimented with freeze drying greens, grinding them into a powder that could be reconstituted later. Yeah. So as we were reading this, I was thinking, okay, is she freezing these things, but then they're going to pull them out and, you know, eat them later. And they're food prepping for the week, but no, she was freeze drying up for like the future. Yeah.
00:28:57
Speaker
This is for the apocalypse. This is preparing for the end times. And I wonder how long she's been doing it. And is this growing as her, uh, as she gets closer to jody and jody has these tendencies yeah i wondered the same so so this house uh it was large um and beautiful but it was very sterile it sounds like it was more of a tv set than an actual house that they lived in ruby's obsession with camera friendly minimalism meant our walls remained bare
00:29:28
Speaker
save for the occasional picture. The lighting in the house was clinical. Rows of bright studio lights instead of warm, homey fixtures. Like, ah oh my gosh.
00:29:39
Speaker
It just, it reminds me of when you have your house on the market for sale and then like right before somebody comes to see it, you like run around and it's, it was staged. It's totally fake. You're shoving things in the drawers. But for that moment, but they're living this way all the time.
00:29:55
Speaker
Right. ah So after they moved in, ah Sherry missed sharing a room. She had this like big, beautiful room to herself, like a huge bed. And before she had talked about the comfort of of actually sharing, think shared a bed with her little sister and that brought her...
00:30:11
Speaker
Comfort brought Sherry comfort. and I'm sure it did to her little sister too. She talks about leaving her windows open. she said she'd wake with itchy eyes and stuffy nose, but she welcomed the minor discomforts in this house, a monument to artificial perfection. Nature provided my only taste of authenticity and warmth.
00:30:30
Speaker
Those open windows became a lifeline, a portal to a world that still felt real and alive. Unlike the sterile emptiness that surrounded me indoors. Yeah. She had such a gift, and I hope she still has it, but of like finding ways to make things bearable.
00:30:46
Speaker
And not just bearable, but like finding things to find some comfort and joy in. Yeah, seeking them out and then realizing that that's what it does for her. We haven't talked about this, but- but Some of our other books and discussion, Laurie Daybell, some of the other LDS stories we've looked at out there. The word portals, that stuck out to me. Yeah, I didn't even notice that. mean, yeah, and here she does talk about where there were some positives. Ruby had changed. The yelling had stopped. She was calmer and more in control.
00:31:16
Speaker
She no longer flew off the handle. at minor infractions or disagreements. Yeah. But something else had taken its place, something worse. Ruby's punishments became more psychological in nature, more focused on emotions and minds rather than our bodies.
00:31:34
Speaker
I don't think she goes into specifics. Well, she does say, she says, instead of a swift, straightforward consequence, a flick in the lips, a slap on the cheek, she started...
00:31:46
Speaker
And see transforming...
00:31:53
Speaker
these often involved grand gestures or prolonged periods of deprivation all designed to make us truly feel the weight of our transgression and then we see a transforming moment that will in the future cause a big problem.
00:32:09
Speaker
Yeah. And one of these punishments was, uh, Chad who pulled one of his pranks again. You know, it was, I think it was a mean prank. i don't know if they say this in here, but he, woke up and told his little brother they were going to Disneyland that day and to get packed and ready to go. And then... And it was like middle of the night or like early, early morning, like was still dark. No, that was mean. I mean, it was pranky. It was a little mean.
00:32:34
Speaker
Yeah. But his punishment became having his bedroom taken away from him for seven months. He slept on a beanbag for seven months. Yeah.
00:32:45
Speaker
And of course, this was on Jodi's advice. I don't know if it says it here, but basically, ah the thought was anyone's punishment, if it wasn't for at least six months, it wasn't sufficient.
00:32:56
Speaker
Yeah. Wouldn't stick. So they talk about this in a video and Ruby didn't see anything unusual about it, which I think is the most telling part. There are so many of these videos that after this incident, people go back to and they're like, this isn't okay.
00:33:10
Speaker
No, they had kind of, they hadn't shared that punishment with their viewers. um But then, yeah, they were filming and ah like they say, let it slip.
00:33:21
Speaker
But i I don't think it was something that they were too worried about. Now, at this point, they did have an editor. and I don't know if they were blaming that, you know, if they placed some blame on the person who was, you know, producing in their videos. But i guess I guess, yeah, I'm kind of wondering, were they consciously hiding this?
00:33:40
Speaker
Did they know it was wrong and too much? Yeah, I don't know either. And we know that Jodi has some ulterior motives with that channel. Was that purposeful that she gave that advice And then she had no hesitation in posting it.
00:33:57
Speaker
Then the says the internet went ballistic. And she's like, people are saying it's child abuse. They don't understand this. And Kevin's like, just take the video down.
00:34:08
Speaker
and she refuses. Jodi says we need to stand firm in our truth. We can't let the haters win. And I do think when Kevin stepped in a little bit, told her to take it down. I do think ke and me Kevin was being a little bit more realistic about eight the financial aspects of it. Oh, yeah.
00:34:24
Speaker
I don't think she expected what happened so badly. She probably expected the people who unsubscribed were distorted and ah the people who were left would be the people that she could...
00:34:38
Speaker
have a hand in manipulating or reaching. But it said the that one video burned down the eight passengers YouTube channel overnight and cost our family 90% of our income.
00:34:49
Speaker
don't know. I don't care how much money you make when you become accustomed to the way you live, especially for kids. That's always a thing I think about if like my husband ever lost his job. i'm like, what would be the worst thing for me is my kids having to then like feel any sort of burden of that.
00:35:06
Speaker
And I don't think she cared so much about that. I think she would be like, this is a lesson. But if you have made a certain amount of money for a certain period of time, and then all of a sudden 90% of it is gone, and you're going to have to drastically change how you live, that's going to be a nightmare.
00:35:24
Speaker
But she kind of stood it by it. That's what's amazing. was so Her convictions were so strong. Yeah. The financial concern was secondary to her. For everybody else, it's like, we're going to lose our house?
00:35:38
Speaker
Like, what's happened? But for her, it was, no, getting out the truth was more important. And this is one of those moments that I say she and Lori Vallow are very similar.
00:35:53
Speaker
How do you think? In what way? Lori's family were of the secondary concern. The first concern was the truth. and what, quote, God told her to do.
00:36:05
Speaker
So the best part of this. So, yeah, I mean, they they were basically sort of canceled because yeah then people did go start searching through their videos and, you know, found more that fed into this anger and this thought of ah her being an abusive parent.
00:36:24
Speaker
But as for Chad, well, he seemed almost amused by the whole thing. Revenge is sweet. Yep. And Sherry's kind of excited. Yeah.
00:36:36
Speaker
She's like, can we go back to our old life? Maybe losing the house isn't a horrible thing. like So the people who were watching were mainly hate watching the channel now. Yeah, but that's still making income.
00:36:49
Speaker
hate watchers or watchers she does ruby does stop posting as often um i do think kind of as you talked about a little bit before like comments are hard sometimes comments are hard and i can't i i think this was a moment for her instead of doing any sort of introspection it's doubling down so she probably felt some of that pain from those comments and then was like i'll show them she takes a lot of pride in her strength hu
00:37:20
Speaker
Yeah, but then people, yeah, as they start going through the videos they watched, maybe watching one video and seeing a behavior that is questionable, you can get by. But once you start seeing them, once you start searching and they start adding up and you see the whole picture,
00:37:37
Speaker
there's the one video that ruby threatened to cut the head off of a stuffed animal and people now see it as threatening to guillotine a beloved buddy wasn't just a punishment it was emotional terrorism and but what's funny is it's always been emotional terrorism like that's kind of what sherry's like every minute was emotional terrorism you just decided it was now yeah it's always been out there yeah There was also a video that got a lot of attention.
00:38:08
Speaker
Their littlest one forgot her lunch for school and the teacher called for Ruby to bring a lunch and Ruby went on to say that...
00:38:19
Speaker
yeah She would not. It was ah this child's responsibility, even though she was, what, six or seven? i wish She was very young. And that she hoped nobody shared their lunch with her because she needed to deal with ah go hungry hungry and deal with consequences, learn a lesson.
00:38:35
Speaker
This was one of the things that we talked about back in the podcast, that the amount of times my kids have forgotten their instruments at home because they only have to bring them once a week. And, well, yeah, I want them to learn something.
00:38:49
Speaker
to be more responsible and things like that. The shame and guilt that I know all three of them feel and having to call me to bring their instrument. I'm like, that's the consequence. That's it.
00:39:00
Speaker
Like I'm, they don't need me to like, yeah well, you're going to have to take the zero for today. I'm not going to do the, do those things to, I don't know, like that'll impact their grade. And what good does that do?
00:39:13
Speaker
I'm going to give them grace. i want to be though i want my kids I want to be the safe place for my kids. I'm going to give them grace, bring them their instrument. Maybe I'll tell them, like yeah, this was kind of frustrating because I was right in the middle of the doing this. and like Just to explain to them like the real-life consequences of it. But I'm going to...
00:39:32
Speaker
Yeah. Be there for my kids. Or like, and this one I think is actually kind of, the school was like an hour away. i would be like, by the time I get there, it's going to be like time to go home.
00:39:44
Speaker
Can I Venmo your teacher five bucks to get you? Like I would try to figure something out.
00:39:52
Speaker
Although she was in the car when she was doing it. I know. So I... So um somebody like so that her viewers got really upset, um and somebody even started change.org petition yeah accusing her of abuse.
00:40:09
Speaker
Yeah, they and they were also calling Brigham Young University to have Kevin fired, um and then CPS was also called. and I don't know. I do feel like some of these things were a little extreme.
00:40:22
Speaker
I'm, yes. And actually, I felt better about feeling this way when I was watching, I'm blanking on their names.
Public Backlash and Consequences
00:40:31
Speaker
They're a married couple. We use them a ton in the series. Well, I use them a ton in the series. They're married couple who left the LDS church.
00:40:38
Speaker
And the wife is, think, a psychologist, but working to be a psychiatrist or something. They have a YouTube channel. ah McKay. Jordan and McKay.
00:40:48
Speaker
Something that. They are a married couple um and they do a lot of YouTube content about leaving the LDS church and the trauma with that. And she's a trauma therapist, specifically with religious trauma. And they were very vocal about like...
00:41:02
Speaker
It's not our job to inundate CPS with this because they have to investigate every single claim. If you feel like you have to call CPS, I assure you people in their neighborhood are calling CPS.
00:41:13
Speaker
Or you know it if you see people commenting who aren't there saying, I'm calling CPS, there is somebody who is in the vicinity who is calling CPS. So please like don't do it.
00:41:26
Speaker
It's just making everybody else's job and life more difficult. Yeah.
00:41:33
Speaker
Right. Or it's even like, maybe if you if you feel like you're not doing the right thing, hop online and see if other people are screaming the same thing. Because if they are, somebody else has done it. So I, at this point... Oh, can I say one more thing about that? Yeah. So I also think this moment that all of these people, the petition, trying to get Kevin fired and calling CPS, is one of the reasons why police and CPS...
00:41:58
Speaker
didn't take Sherry's calls as seriously because they had been inundated with that. Good point. Yeah. And now when there's, there are people like the neighbors did too, and Sherry are saying something's happening.
00:42:11
Speaker
They've investigated this before. And yeah, we're, why are we doing this again? Everything's fine. Yeah. No, that's a very good point. ah So then connections became her bunker.
00:42:23
Speaker
Yeah. So, I mean, she was dealing with all this public, condemnation and so she really really jumped in and protected herself with this connection thing and at least sherry thinks it was calculated yeah um jody played into her being the victim of this made her a martyr and then validated everything ruby did so when kevin wanted her to take that video down i'm sure she could have even considered it but jody was like you are this is the truth this is the truth i'm gonna start saying it like that every time
00:42:58
Speaker
This isn't true.
00:43:01
Speaker
There could have been a stopgap measure. So, all right. All right. Chapter 23, Obedient Little Drone. Summer rolled around.
00:43:11
Speaker
Ruby, leaning into Jodi-approved strictness, declared that our favorite TV shows were banned. No more SpongeBob or Simpsons. In addition, it would be a, quote, electronics-free summer.
00:43:24
Speaker
Away went our iPod Touches, our gateway to music, apps, and games locked in a safe in Ruby's closet. Now, this very sweet thing is this is supposed to be a punishment, but Sherry's like, I didn't mind so much. I like to read.
00:43:38
Speaker
That is funny. ah And when we talk about an obedient little drone, it's. Ruby, which is interesting. So different. So Chad was still in therapy with Jodi, but he figured out basically how to play along, how to agree with everything she said while still living by his own rules.
00:43:59
Speaker
hu Now, Sherry, on the other hand, was living by the connections rules. She was almost addicted to my weekly self-flagellation sessions with Jodi.
00:44:10
Speaker
So interesting. How they go through these different phases of buying in as we And it gets to the point that Sherry says, I was completely lost. What does she want from me? Why can't I ever get it right?
00:44:27
Speaker
Which is a method that she uses. Yeah. I do like this part also because like she pipes in with some like snarky comments back. She's like, you're not willing to look at the ugly parts of your own psyche.
00:44:39
Speaker
And then Sherry says, for clarity, I asked her exactly what kind of ugliness I wasn't seeing.
Jodi's Manipulation and Philosophies
00:44:46
Speaker
And again, so now in a way, Sherry is doing what she was told to do.
00:44:51
Speaker
And now that's wrong. Yep. So she keeps trying to please and they're, they're, and mean I would say if somebody doesn't want to be pleased, then they can always find something. So she tears her.
00:45:03
Speaker
She like tears. She goes back to she's in self-adulation. She thinks she's the cleverest, not compassionate. Like she just all of the things she's afraid of. And that night, Sherry writes in a journal.
00:45:15
Speaker
I'm just kind of like reflecting on this. And she says, Jodi thinks I'm relying too much on external validation. She said I was an obedient little drone focused on getting approval from her and Ruby.
00:45:27
Speaker
Which, yeah, Jodi, you made it that way. Then she said, I'm just not understanding compassion and empathy. It was awful. I don't want to be a cold and unfeeling person, which is how she described me.
00:45:40
Speaker
And through this, then, you know, Jodi's focused on her negativity and putting herself down. Sherry was actually thanking Jodi for pointing out she was and obedient little drone.
00:45:55
Speaker
And saying she was right. And I'm grateful for your honesty. Hearing the truth is the only way we can bring about change. Jodi says, i never said those things, Sherry.
00:46:07
Speaker
Yeah. And this is another cult tactic. it Gaslighting, basically. Yeah. Because she immediately, so she says, tendrils of doubt wrapped themselves around my mind. But Jodi seems so sure, so confident in what she was saying. I guess I must have hallucinated the whole exchange.
00:46:24
Speaker
And she had to go back to her journal. Yeah. And then Jodi says, you must have misinterpreted my meaning and then remembered it as a fact. Oh, my gosh. But then then then immediately, I love, this one just blows my mind. Then immediately, Jodi brings up a story later in the next session, I think.
00:46:43
Speaker
About how a family friend had visited and their young kids were there. And Jodi noticed that the remote control for her curtains were missing. And she said, I just know those kids took the remote to spite me.
00:46:55
Speaker
And Sherry says coldly, how do you know they took the remote? I just knew. Isn't that an assumption? One of the stories we tell ourselves without facts.
00:47:07
Speaker
And she like feels this rush of adrenaline. And Jodi says, assumptions are different when you have evidence behind them, Sherry. She said, the evidence being that those kids have a pattern of being vindictive troublemakers.
00:47:20
Speaker
The remote showed up under Jodi's couch a week later. but I think this sort of a changing point in... Sherry's thinking. Yep. Oh, yeah. Because after that, I became hypervigilant, less focused on finding evidence of my own distorted thinking than on monitoring hers.
00:47:39
Speaker
Total insight moment. Yep. So Sherry has a final straw moment. Yeah. And it comes when Jodi is talking about how babies are distorted They're manipulating with their wide eyes and being adorable, little innocent bundles of joy. It's all manipulation.
00:48:04
Speaker
And they feel entitled. Yeah. ah For their mother's mothers to take care of them, I suppose. Yeah. And the problem with society today is that we coddle children, she told me.
00:48:15
Speaker
We give them everything they want, and then we wonder why they grew up to be so selfish and lazy. The things they want are like nourishment and to be cared for. You know, which maybe goes to show why Jodi's children have anything to do with her at this point.
00:48:33
Speaker
So, yeah, a baby cries and is entitled... And it knows someone who will come running because it believes the world revolves around them and their needs. Well, and when you have a baby, kind of does.
00:48:46
Speaker
i was just going to say that. and I mean, that's evolution. That's survival instincts. And what's wild is, is Jodi, who's, and I'm sorry, Sherry, who is a high school kid.
00:48:59
Speaker
knows that babies cry when they need something she's just like i think a baby cries because it needs food or comfort jody waved her off dismissively crying is a sign of something is wrong not necessarily like bad wrong could be baby needs to go to bed go to sleep and can't sleep so it's yeah children from an early age need to earn their blessings Only when we can create a society free from distortion.
00:49:31
Speaker
so we already see it being elevated to ahha messaging from God, basically, with children earning their book blessings.
00:49:43
Speaker
And then it becomes, you know with time, we see the story go on. It makes more sense as to the children of the younger children and that happens further on.
00:49:54
Speaker
So I do want to end this chapter with um kind of, I want to read this, like, it's pretty long portion, but I think it's so important to see how this happened.
00:50:06
Speaker
And so basically, like, Jodi has set herself up so no one could take any of her power and... Ultimately, they're all trapped because of Ruby. But if it's okay, I want to read this couple paragraphs.
00:50:20
Speaker
Cults are thought to prey on the vulnerable, the lost, the broken. But here's the thing. They can also ensnare anyone who is simply a human searching for meaning or people who are in a state of transition in their lives. Young adults coming of age, for instance.
00:50:33
Speaker
Intelligence is no defense. My own father, a professor, was shockingly quick to abandon his own judgment in favor of hers. Our dedication to thinking critically and analyzing complex ideas was the very thing Jodi used against us. She twisted our inquiring minds into knots using our own logic and reason to lead us down a path of south self-doubt and self-deception.
00:50:54
Speaker
But it was all a lie, a carefully crafted illusion designed to keep us trapped and compliant. For Ruby, the allure of Jodi was more about climbing the ranks and amassing power within the connection system so that one day she could glory in it herself.
00:51:09
Speaker
She had always learned to yearned to lead, and the connection system, with its rigid hierarchy and defined steps towards enlightenment, offered her a tantalizing path to power. Ruby envisioned a future where she, like Jodi, would stand at the pinnacle, basking in the adoration of followers, wielding the authority she so deeply craved.
00:51:28
Speaker
But of course that was never going to happen. Jodi, the master manipulator, had no intention of ever sharing her throne. The system she had crafted was designed with a single purpose, to keep herself firmly at the top, surrounded by devoted acolytes who would never quite teach reach her level.
00:51:44
Speaker
Jodi's grip on power was absolute, her control over her followers unshakable. She had cultivated in Ruby and others a desperate need for approval, an insatiable hunger for enlightenment that only Jodi could satisfy. It was brilliantly crafted trap, and Ruby had walked right into it, dragging our family along with her.
00:52:03
Speaker
And Cherry even acknowledges, how had I and so many others been so vulnerable to being manipulated by someone like Jodi? And I also think how, now after this realization, how frustrating it would be to be the only one who can see it. Yep.
00:52:23
Speaker
All right, last chapter of this part is called The Demon in My Room. Jodi's paranoia about her position at the apex of connections was palpable. In a move that revealed both her greed and fear, Jodi demanded that all her certified life coaches sign a new contract.
00:52:39
Speaker
No one could use her, quote, teachings or, quote, materials as independent life coaches unless they paid her a cut of their earnings. So yeah, this is a moment.
00:52:51
Speaker
when a lot of others involved who had been followers of Jodi are starting to see huh through this and the majority of her followers, you know, finally confronted her about the greed.
00:53:05
Speaker
And think at this time they, yeah, they saw how she was trying to monetize every aspect of their hard earned skills. One by one people started breaking away, walking away from connections.
00:53:20
Speaker
enough But Jodi told everybody else that she had fired them. Ah, yeah. I forgot about that.
00:53:29
Speaker
um But Ruby was dedicated. Ruby was going nowhere.
Finding Empowerment Outside Influence
00:53:33
Speaker
And I think actually, now we get into something that we never heard about originally when all this was playing out in the media.
00:53:46
Speaker
This was a huge revelation and gives you so much more sympathy additional for what Sherry was going through. But ah I'm going to read this. like It's a fairly long one.
00:53:57
Speaker
My rebellion started small in ways that might seem inconsequential to an outsider, but fell monumental to me at the time. One of these small small acts of defiance was my friendship with Derek.
00:54:12
Speaker
It started innocently enough, I suppose, a friendship that turned into something else. Derek was high up in the church, a family man and land over owner in his late 40s.
00:54:23
Speaker
In May of 2021, right after I graduated high school, he asked me to help with this social media strategy for his company, offering me a side gig to help him put together videos for YouTube.
00:54:36
Speaker
Having just turned 18, it meant a lot to me that a respected adult like him had singled me out and recognized my skills and talents. After my first meeting with Derek, he couldn't stop singing my praises. She's loving the acceptance and the praise at that time.
00:54:56
Speaker
Hearing from Derek, I knew right then that he was someone I could trust, someone I could confide in about what was going on at home, a friend. And we've talked about how she didn't feel that she could trust anyone because the information would always be brought back to her family and she would always have to kind of ah to pay for it in some way. from And what prompted her blind trust is that he hated Jodi.
00:55:24
Speaker
He used to be her neighbor. Yeah. And it says, I can't stand the woman personally. So he started, ah he started doing these little gestures. He would send her door dash if she was having a hard day. She would take him shopping if she needed something, just these little things.
00:55:42
Speaker
And then started kind of suggesting things. I'm the only one who really cares about you, Sherry. You know that, right? Every gift she felt kind of pressured, but she didn't know into what. One day I accidentally called him dad, and that was the first time I saw Derek and angry.
00:55:58
Speaker
i think we're more than that, aren't we? He said, his face a storm cloud. I didn't mean to offend you. Please don't be mad. That's strange that you would take offense by that slip.
00:56:09
Speaker
and But that slip being dad, because it would show a closeness, the closeness that she felt. and But he doesn't want to be a father figure. Yeah. We don't fully realize that at this point, but yeah.
00:56:22
Speaker
Sherry actually tells Ruby that she's working with him and Ruby forbids her from seeing him. Says she has a bad feeling, but Jodi and I don't think it's appropriate. And she's like, yeah, I'll, I'll stop talking to him. Sure.
00:56:34
Speaker
So is this, is it, is the root of this that Jodi knows this is somebody who dislikes her and is onto her true nature rather than truly wrongly?
00:56:47
Speaker
being worried about this relationship yep and this is another little point of rebellion for Sherry she says I'm an adult now and no longer answerable to anyone except God so I carried on working with Derek behind everyone's back and so she was getting she calls it nourish nourishment and empowerment in working with this man in his 40s and she finishes by saying Lord knows I was about to need it more than ever.
00:57:21
Speaker
Yeah. Part four is coming and part four is where we start getting into the really, really difficult things. Not that this hasn't been difficult already.
Conclusion and Viewer Engagement
00:57:31
Speaker
All right. Well, we went longer than we expected again. So hope you enjoyed. Leave us your comments, your i questions, your thoughts about everything going on in the book. And if you guys are enjoying this, let us know and we will talk to you next time.
00:57:45
Speaker
Goodbye.
00:57:56
Speaker
Bye.