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Book Club: The House of My Mother by Shari Franke, Part One
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Fixate Today: Book Club! For our YouTube channel, we are walking through Shari Franke's book, The House of My Mother. We thought our podcast listeners would maybe want to read along with us, too! On today's episode, we are reading and discussing Part One.
Please note, our sound isn't great in this episode. We were able to record together! But we don't understand technology, so we went old-school and shared one mic. Sorry for the sound, but it was way more fun being together in the same room, so we're not THAT sorry :)
Check out our YouTube channel, Fixate Today: Grey Matters
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Transcript
Introduction and Channel Goals
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Fixate Today. Gray matters. Yay! This is going to be very different from past. It is and you're going to see first because I already forgot my book. So the goal of our channel has always been about doing whatever we're fixated on.
00:00:16
Speaker
And even if that is different things, then we're going to do different things. Most people would say make a different channel. but start So we are not stopping our coverage of Micah because there's still a lot to say about that.
00:00:33
Speaker
But we also both got really fixated on Sherry Franke's pretty recently released book. Yeah. And so we're going to do this one as a little bit of book club.
00:00:44
Speaker
Yeah. and talk through the book. Pretty good like detail. and see how goes. If you want to read along, great. um and We're going to pretty much, if you don't want to read, we're going to pretty much go through it.
00:00:56
Speaker
And we'll see if we, if this becomes something that you enjoy, we can make a little bit more of a book club as, as one, I mean, we'll still do other things.
Background on Ruby Franke and Arrest
00:01:06
Speaker
We've done a crazy deep dive on Ruby, Frankie and Jodi Hillbrand our podcast.
00:01:11
Speaker
So if you want to hear like the stuff we've already walked through, that's over on Fix It Today Gone Tomorrow. Mr. Friendly Reminder, I have ADHD and can't sit still and I'm already kicking things. So yeah just go check out if you want to like just learn what we've already done on this topic.
00:01:28
Speaker
That was like our first series and then we went back to it. Do you want to give really broad overview? Yeah. So Ruby Frankie was a YouTube family vlogger. They amassed a crazy high number of subscribers very quickly.
00:01:43
Speaker
She gave off the impression that she was this perfect Mormon wife and mother. two years ago now it was discovered her one of her children escaped um the home that he was being held in it led to this enormous collapse of she was horrifically abusing her children with the help of her a mormon therapist named jody hildebrand their channel completely imploded before that happened and she's now in prison
00:02:14
Speaker
for horrific child abuse that's like super vague yeah so yeah so woman had youtube showed how perfect her family was had six kids this therapist came into her life basically brainwashed her and everything upside down to the point where then she went to live with this therapist with with some of her children the children started being two youngest incredibly abused at the yeah horrifically horrific level One escaped to be able to get police involved.
00:02:44
Speaker
And
Sherry Franke's Perspective and Family Image
00:02:45
Speaker
yeah. So this and what we're doing, her oldest child wrote a book about her experience, about her life. So it's not about the entire story, the entire matter. This is from her her perspective. would Yeah. this is her This is her story entwined with the story we really quick ran through.
00:03:03
Speaker
And it the title is The House of My Mother. Mm-hmm. by Sherry Frankie. Yes. um The title comes from a verse in the Bible from Psalms. you want to jump in? Well, yeah, I'm going to give little back or little say a little something.
00:03:17
Speaker
Nikki was an English major. was a pharmacist.
00:03:24
Speaker
So she will be able to talk through this much better and much more eloquently than will. And here's where it starts. She like got into the internet. I'm like, I've never read it in the internet.
00:03:36
Speaker
yeah I started with the introduction. um The introduction is entitled, Finally, and it takes place August 30th, 2023, which is the day that Ruby Franke was arrested. Sherry Franke hadn't seen her siblings in over a year at that point.
00:03:49
Speaker
um She was trying to find protection, get help. Nobody would. That day, a neighbor called her to tell her that police were at her house, and she assumed that meant the children, her siblings, were dead.
00:04:05
Speaker
She had been cut off disconnected from the family months i mean yeah over a year yeah her mother ruby frankie had disowned her the year prior this banishment of the of sherry uh came from when jody hildebrandt joined i must say joined their family moved in was and she became entwined with ruby sherry writes jody our family's very own cult leader a false prophet who swept into our lives like a hurricane turning my mother into a fawning starstruck acolyte
00:04:39
Speaker
who lapped up her every demented word like it was holding water. My father, once our anchor, had been banished, leaving Ruby and Jodi to rule unchallenged over my four youngest siblings who were still there with me. Sherry and the neighbors had called DCFS a number of times.
00:04:54
Speaker
Nothing ever came of it. When Sherry got to her family home, officers asked her for the layout of the house and specifically asked if there were any safes or guns in the home.
00:05:06
Speaker
Sherry expressed that though being prepared for the end times is a part of Mormon doctrine, Ruby had taken it to the next level and their home was just full of things that preppers want.
00:05:20
Speaker
Crazy amount of food, crazy amount of water, things like that. Cash. like Yeah, large sums of cash. And on that day, Sherry posted about this on her social media. was She posted a picture of police at her house and just the word finally.
Sherry Franke's Writing and Privacy
00:05:35
Speaker
And in the book, she says the nightmare was born on social media. It should die there too. Do you want to talk about yeah kind of our big big takeaways? fake takeaways yeah Let's go really big takeaways first and then we'll dive into it.
00:05:47
Speaker
I guess as far as I go, Sherry's an amazing writer. Yeah, she's such a good writer. Yeah. and So I'm assuming there was some ghost writer of sort involved, but a lot of a lot of the book includes just passages from her own journal um and i e even from there.
00:06:04
Speaker
Nikki will read out but all the passages from Sherry's journal. So that was, I think, one of my biggest takeaways. Also that her that she did a great job of telling her story.
00:06:17
Speaker
Yeah, she kept it really focused in her experience. She was very respectful of her siblings, which was which was great. And then for those that followed the story, there was also, we find out about a major major traumatic event that was happening in Sherry's life that was not otherwise discussed. Yeah. It wasn't public at all when everything came public.
00:06:41
Speaker
Um, and that she didn't deal with it without her family. Yeah. Yeah. It was all. My biggest thing I got is, you know, when we were doing the podcast, we would always go back and forth with like, who's the evil person? Who's the person who caused everything? Was Ruby the bad or Jody the bad? And ultimately yeah Sherry says that Ruby always had this ability within her to do the things that she did.
00:07:06
Speaker
And Jodi was kind of like the spark that ignited her. I almost feel, and don't want to say I was like easy on Ruby when we did the podcast, but I think I was, and I do believe she was manipulated, but reading the book is, you know, she was abusive from day one. yeah She wasn't that extreme at that point, but from one, she was,
00:07:28
Speaker
more concerned about her end goal than anybody else's. yeah All right. ready So yeah, just Sherry Frankie currently is a 20 something.
00:07:40
Speaker
Yeah. I think she's still in school. She's engaged, getting her life back in order. There's not much public, but the assumption is she's taking or spending time helping.
00:07:52
Speaker
Yeah. She's advocating for family blogging reform, but she's I do remember during the kind press tour for the book, she was like, this is kind of last you're going to see me.
00:08:03
Speaker
She doesn't want to be public anymore. Did the book and then the Hulu series. And really it's been kind of, she's been quiet, which good for her. Yeah. Okay. Jump into, so this also shows that because I did a deep dive on like the titles of the parts. I was like, I didn't even read them.
00:08:24
Speaker
Well, here's what it came from. The, the, Each part has a title and I was like, that sounds like it could be from the Bible, but I can't, it doesn't, like it sounds off to me. And I wondered if it was like a Book of Mormon reference.
00:08:38
Speaker
So the title part one is The Garden of Earthly Delights. And when I looked it up, it is a painting by Dutch artist named Hieronymus Bosch. It is, I want to see one of these now. It is a 12 foot wide painting.
00:08:54
Speaker
And it's a type of painting called and I'm so sorry, it's called a triptych, I believe, painting. And basically, it is three panels, so a bigger one in the middle and two on the side, and it's hinged, so it opens.
00:09:07
Speaker
And it's a cohesive hole. Where is it? I didn't look at it because I was just in Amsterdam. Ooh, I wonder. So this painting in particular is a warning of the dangers of temptation.
00:09:19
Speaker
The exterior panels, so like, want that closed. or the third day of creation. So like the day the book of the Bible that God created dry land, seas, plants, trees.
00:09:31
Speaker
The left panel is the garden of Eden. The center panel is the garden of earthly delights. So like when humans were in the garden, don't know. And then the right panel is hell.
00:09:44
Speaker
And so if you read it across, like if you read it like a book, it's like humanity's failure. Cool. I know. is And she's so smart. I did look ahead and part two is another painting, so I'm guessing all of them are, but I'm very excited to find out. All you, all you.
Ruby Franke's Early Life and Marriage
00:10:01
Speaker
All right. So we, I think we have to start with Sherry's mother, Ruby. Yes. So Ruby was born, she was the first child, old the oldest child of five siblings and was raised in a very devout LDS home for multiple generations. They had been devout members.
00:10:21
Speaker
She helped raise her siblings like any good first daughter does. and she Her ultimate goal was to be a mom. That was what she wanted with her life. she there was you know The book didn't get too much into her childhood other than the strictness of it.
00:10:35
Speaker
She went to college at Utah State with an accounting major, but the major was just like, that's just how you get to college. like The real goal is to find a husband.
00:10:46
Speaker
She met Kevin Frankie there. He is, and was, I don't know why i was so surprised by this, but he's four years older. So yeah, Ruby had a checklist of what she expected.
00:10:59
Speaker
Color-coded boarers. what she was expecting or what she was looking for in a man. And when she, they included somebody who was five inches taller than her.
00:11:12
Speaker
hands up carpet off and then engineer and get home bor arc paid
00:11:23
Speaker
And she found it. Yeah. And a gentleman by the name of ki of Kevin Frank. Yes. She wanted someone who would take the lead. Quote from the book is, Ruby had no interest in power struggles.
00:11:36
Speaker
After all, what she needed was someone relaxed enough to let her take the reins without too much resistance. A co-pilot content to let her navigate their shared journey, pay the bills, and give her the children she longed for.
00:11:47
Speaker
He was... Yep, she just... She wanted someone who... would I think on paper look like like the strong leading husband would really like just let her take control do what she needed to do and be laid back to like yeah I trust you go do whatever yeah so Kevin came from a family that was a little bit different they were less formal yeah Kevin's mom didn't like to cook or bake um Their life revolved around pre-made meals, TV, and talk of faith.
00:12:19
Speaker
The household was generally relaxed, without a lot of rules, an easygoing environment that sculpted Kevin into a gentle and healed sort of guy.
00:12:30
Speaker
Kind sounds like my house. Sounds like it. Yeah. yeah um So it was exactly, it was the perfect person for Ruby to mold into. Yeah, and probably someone who would be one in some of that.
00:12:42
Speaker
Yeah. Kind of craved. Just tell me how to be a good husband. I'll do it. So I think there's this one story yeah that tells me a lot.
00:12:53
Speaker
And it's a story about, i guess, while they they were dating and getting to know each other, there's a passage. So they were sitting on a couch under under a blanket.
00:13:04
Speaker
And Kevin glanced over and noticed another guy, one of Ruby's admirers, sitting way too close on her other side. His stomach dropped as he realized,
00:13:15
Speaker
Ruby was holding this guy's hand under the blanket too. and Is that just weird? and That's just weird to me. Yeah, i yeah I didn't like it.
00:13:26
Speaker
Just odd. But they didn't have to worry because two weeks um after they met, Ruby cut to the chase and said, so, are we getting married?
00:13:38
Speaker
And laid back, Kevin was like, okay. Yeah. and the book Kevin would do literally anything for Ruby and her dreams. They married after knowing each other for three months.
00:13:49
Speaker
Quick, courtship. This quote, I think, is like this summary of why Ruby is the way she is and was the way she was. Ruby's entire self-worth was built on exceptionalism.
00:14:01
Speaker
So if she couldn't be extraordinary, then what was the point? Wanted to be perfect in every way. Perfect wife, perfect mother. And so... It's almost to me like this insatiable need for exceptionalism. Yeah.
00:14:16
Speaker
Which inherently you can never fully achieve. So you're always seeking that. Yeah. Throughout your life and can never truly be happy is the way I see it. Yeah, absolutely. And it is why I have an insatiable need for mediocrity.
00:14:32
Speaker
Yeah. That's achievable. That's achievable. It is just. exhausting to live your life that way and we'll over and over again see this theme of needing to live the needing to create the perfect family in life yeah it's not living the best life even because living your best life would mean that family's best life too it's creating it and it's uh having children curating it yeah yeah all right that is chapter one the chapters are really short
00:15:04
Speaker
Yeah, so we're going to do it by part. So let's move on to chapter two called Teardrops. So this is, we're getting into the kids starting to be born and and their family structure coming to fruition.
00:15:17
Speaker
Sherry was born when Ruby was 21 and she had a difficult pregnancy and labor, which I think right off the bat kind of impacted that perfect image. You would think the perfect wife and mother would have perfect pregnancy, easy labor, and it wasn't the case. Sets the stage for her.
00:15:35
Speaker
what is going to come yes At three months old, Sherry had was diagnosed with an intestinal blockage. Like she just wouldn't stop crying. Sherry says, from the start, it seemed my childhood was destined to be a fight for survival.
00:15:50
Speaker
Also, we learned Ruby didn't comfort her babies. so yeah She didn't believe, Ruby didn't believe in comforting when I was a baby. Not the way most parents do. Why would she? Her family's philosophy had always been that it doesn't hurt.
00:16:05
Speaker
a baby to cry things out babies shouldn't be called and this is from infant stage yeah like at three months at three months old you don't know like babies aren't able to start self-sleeping it's not a thing and we were talking a little bit about this last night for me like my first was didn't sleep for the first three months of their life And like, I'm going to comfort the baby, even selfishly for the baby to stop crying for minute to get me like, I'm going to cuddle my baby and take a break because my brain won't work because my baby is screaming.
00:16:44
Speaker
But I mean, I remember getting the, you know, the advice you know sot Yeah, basically the baby needs to cry it out. And, you know, at some point you can't cuddle the type, but not an infant, not a newborn. Yeah.
00:16:56
Speaker
You can't spoil a newborn. No. and the touch, that human touch is so important to development. Yeah. At that stage of life. Yeah. However, the babies didn't need comforting, but Ruby cried everything with every emotion, joy, discomfort,
00:17:14
Speaker
anger, and everything. It's just so ironic. It's so ironic that this person who works to be strong um and and in control, and she herself is so prone to crying. Yeah.
00:17:28
Speaker
It's one of my least favorite things about myself is when I'm angry, I cry. yeah Because I feel like it appears I'm even more out of control. yeah it's like Even if it's a justified, like, I'm trying to make a point that is coherent and logical. I'm just upset.
00:17:43
Speaker
Right. i didn't even want to say angry, but I'm mad about whatever's going on. I start crying. I'm like, well, there goes my point, but it's going to listen to me now. And then I would think even more so, like, you know, a lot of people consider crying a sign of weakness. Yeah.
00:17:59
Speaker
So it's even more interesting that, that she cried often. Yeah. And I'm not sure what make of it. I mean, it could also be be a manipulation thing. Yeah. I'll get everybody to do what I want because I'm gonna cry again.
00:18:12
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. A self or self-centeredness. Yeah. Or making yourself the main character. Yeah. yeah Because of this, Sherry learned that her pain didn't matter and her any of her emotions were inconvenient.
00:18:28
Speaker
Were secondary to her mom. Yeah. yeah And disruptive to her mom. So if she was sad, her mom was angry that she was sad. And... You know, she learned eventually, but obviously at this time didn't know. Like, she just wanted a love that Ruby wasn't designed to give.
00:18:45
Speaker
She just didn't know how to be that kind of caregiver. and she never seems to become that. Yeah. Again, a trend that we see throughout the entire book.
00:18:57
Speaker
Yes, exactly. So, like i said, chapters are short. You're on chapter three. I hate them. it This is sad. Mommy isn't very nice to the is the title of this ye we start with, in 2005, Chad Franke being born.
The Facade of a Perfect Life
00:19:13
Speaker
There's two, seems to be two-year age gap between just about all the kids. 2007, the third child was born. At this point in the book, she shares that she's not going to use the names of the minor children in the book.
00:19:24
Speaker
um She says, basically, she's open to using, like, her parents' names, obviously, her own name, and Chad's name. I'm assuming he even gave permission, but he was also an adult. Yeah. She says, this isn't an oversight. It's my last line of defense for them.
00:19:38
Speaker
In a kinder world, their stories would not be fodder for a book. Their private moments would be their own, known only to friends and family, not dissected by strangers on the internet. But peace and anonymity were never in the cards for us.
00:19:50
Speaker
We have Ruby to s thank for that. Ruby and her insatiable hunger for attention and success. So once she started this, so she, Ruby decided to become a mommy blogger.
00:20:01
Speaker
This is before YouTube and all the things. This is like you're posting your stuff on the internet. Yeah. On like a website. and She wanted to show her perfect life. Yes. It was about showing her and people seeing it. Yeah.
00:20:16
Speaker
Side note that Sherry takes us on that we've talked about quite a bit is that the LDS church was meticulous. It still is meticulous about its members documenting life. Journaling. And it came to a point that they started openly saying like,
00:20:29
Speaker
use technology to document things. You can reach more people. We can get more people to join the Mormon church by being open about it. and And Ruby saw this, well, I guess as a way to have others see her her perfect home.
00:20:47
Speaker
But but she just you know she what she disguised it at is, I want my children to have a place on the internet to go and enjoy reading about them so to see how they yeah so this is for the kids sake largely yeah that's such a just hate stuff like that that kind of manipulation that's like I'm doing this for your own good this is a gift to you so so her blog I think it's funny it's called good looking home cooking my favorite part is on this blog where she shared recipes she didn't actually cook them for her like already don't know how fake it is
00:21:28
Speaker
She's like not actually making rest. She's like, this is, my family loves this. they're like, we're having chicken nuggets again? yeah And they even say, it was aspirational rather than realistic.
00:21:39
Speaker
Yes. Part of an image that called for smiling flower smudge mama and the gaggle of cherub children gathered at the table. Yep. So at the time that Ruby was blogging, her three sisters were as well.
00:21:53
Speaker
So they went all in to sharing everything about their lives. Yeah. This family definitely, there was definitely a type. And I don't think there's three sisters and a brother. And I've never heard too much about the brother.
00:22:06
Speaker
They say later that even he was doing some blogging eventually with his family, but he's definitely not as public as the sisters. We come back to Sherry. um She was made to begin piano lessons at age five.
00:22:20
Speaker
She saw at this time, like she did not like piano lessons and Ruby wanted her to be perfect. So that's when kind of the smacking started. If Sherry messed up or complained. Their family dog was a source of comfort, which made me happy that she brought the dog up.
00:22:34
Speaker
She's like, okay, there's something. Also, weirdly, she started experiencing tummy aches at the age of five. And that Ruby would just say, just go to Go to bed. You're fine. And that's obviously when her anxiety started.
00:22:48
Speaker
She also wasn't kind about this too she wasn't allowed to sleep with a nightlight oh i forget yeah yeah yeah it was yeah she ruby was like you wont you won't sleep with a nightlight when you're an adult like you need to get used to it you're fine now why this i think matters is because she from like day one was afraid of demons which we just talked about also in our series there is a element of evil spirits light and dark Demons can enter your body and make you sin in LDS Church.
00:23:24
Speaker
So in the book, she says, why might a little girl harbor such tangible fears of demonic possession? I'm sure the deeply religious paradigm I was steeped in played a role. We firmly believe in Satan's power and the ability of his legion of fallen spirits to possess individuals.
00:23:41
Speaker
We believe that evil can inhabit physical forms, sometimes fleetingly, sometimes for extended periods. Having been raised to believe the very air I breathed was thick with unseen forces battling for dominion over my soul.
00:23:54
Speaker
It was a small step for my young mind to imagine the battle raging in my bedroom. She just wanted a nightlight because she was afraid of the monsters. I think there's ah speaking of the rage, that she also talked about how she quickly learned that anything less than unbridled enthusiasm would trigger pain.
00:24:14
Speaker
Ruby into a rage. Yeah. And a whack. But I just found that word rage telling at that point. Yeah. She recognized that level of anger that young. and She was in a basically constant state of fear yeah of her mom also addition to like the monsters at night.
00:24:32
Speaker
Yeah. She never. So just going to read. Perhaps to my constant state of dread around my emotionally volatile mother had primed me for such fears. as if my subconscious, unable to make sense of the chaos at home, had conjured supernatural terrors to give shape to the formless anxiety that seemed to permeate our home.
00:24:50
Speaker
She's such a good writer. She is. She really is. But I've always understood, like being raised in a home where your parents unpredict leads to a definitely a self-conscious, insecure children. Almost almost much worse than if across the board.
00:25:10
Speaker
you knew what to expect and you had a parent who was always domineering or but not knowing think is one of the most destructive things for kids to have that fear and have to walk on eggshells I suppose it's also difficult having being in a situation of having like one completely like reasonable rational kind caring parent and the other one being volatile that's that's that causes a lot of people also and yet we don't care much about Kevin yeah I mean, he seems to be the more calm parent, but we don't hear nearly as much about him, guess, being involved in there on a day-to-day level.
00:25:49
Speaker
I just want to end this chapter with the part about the piano piece. Okay. So Ruby said she thought Sherry was ready to move on to a new piano piece. And the piano teacher was like, let's do one more week. You're almost there.
00:26:02
Speaker
And then she noticed how, like, Sherry got tight and upset, but didn't say, like, my mom said we can move on. It was like she... felt it, it just felt the change in Sherry. And the teacher was like, you know what You're doing great. Let's move on to the next piece.
00:26:18
Speaker
Like people notice, but it's, you know, I don't, and I'm not trying to say like the piano teacher did anything wrong because don't think he's seeing a kid get like tensed up or worried that their mom might be upset or annoyed at something is like, don't call CPS for that.
00:26:33
Speaker
But it's like, people noticed this anxiety in this kid. okay so Chapter four, the rage inside. 2009, Frankie had their fourth child, another girl.
00:26:47
Speaker
And this story is so interesting. So Ruby's mother gave her a pair of silk pajamas after the baby was born. Sherry wrote, I blurted out, will you bring me, this is Sherry speaking, will you bring me silk pajamas too when I have a baby?
00:27:03
Speaker
Absolutely, absolutely, Ruby said, her voice lighted. When you have a baby, that's when we can be friends. And then a little bit down. Just as Ruby had to become a wife and mother to truly earn her own mother's respect, I too would have to do the same.
00:27:19
Speaker
I would have to wait to be loved. So it always about creating your own family, having your child, i getting married. Right. From the very beginning. That is what the goal was.
00:27:31
Speaker
Yeah. And that I want to know so much more about Ruby's childhood. I do too. Because that seemed to be instilled in all of them. Yes, very much.
00:27:43
Speaker
um i Just a weird side side point. Sherry also points out her three aunts and their husbands were all present at the delivery. Oh yeah, gross.
00:27:55
Speaker
As the story went, my sister just popped out very fast. I say gross because i could have if I could have had my babies completely alone, like not even adopted.
00:28:07
Speaker
and would have And we don't know. mean, I don't know that meant they were like in the waiting room at the hospital or if they, she says present at the delivery. And if so, that's just weird.
00:28:19
Speaker
Yeah. That's just, it's just not, not me. There's nothing when I said, I just want to make it clear when I say gross, I don't mean, discuss I mean, it is gross to me to be surrounded by that many people in any, any time, but especially that.
00:28:33
Speaker
Yeah. And when we go back to the title of it Rage, we we see that, let me just read, whoever was nearest bore the brunt of her frustration, a toppled vase, a straight toy, a glass bearing the faintest smudge, all became excuses for her assaults.
00:28:55
Speaker
We're talking about Ruby. And I just think what I got from that is just an illogical trigger ah frustration yeah looking looking for reasons to be frustrated even if or or to rage or to be angry even if they were items that the children couldn't control or mistakes yeah just things that happen yeah i agree and i just like i said it's so exhausting it has to be so tiring to live that way she also spoke of they talk about cleaning a lot yeah and having the child clean as punishments and
00:29:32
Speaker
well it just was a you know maybe i should have and to clean more, but she called a her her family her kids her pint-sized cleaning crew and would have cleaning blitzes where everyone had to clean diligently for one hour, which I'm going to say doesn't sound like the worst idea, but you know, I'm thinking now part of like when COVID lockdowns very first happened, my youngest was preschool. So like i had,
00:30:05
Speaker
elementary school kids and it was like the end of the school year to the summer I was like i need to have some some sort of structure it was like the most structured we've ever been because I'm not that person very much I was like but we like I'm gonna lose these kids like they have to finish the school year so we'd set up like schedule for the day and part of it was like 10 minutes of cleaning it was like I don't care what you clean I need you to clean for 10 minutes and then I like that.
00:30:33
Speaker
Did they? They did. Once it was like part of the routine for the day. It was also like until your school work is done, until we do this, until we do this, you can't have screen. So when it was clean for 10 minutes, you get screen. And they had a little dry erase marker for you to check off.
00:30:50
Speaker
Oh my god. No, I mean, I think I was a really good mother. I raised really good kids, but I fully admit I i am active past screwing up on i was having like and i That's when they always start going, I get mad.
00:31:04
Speaker
They used to get mad when I grow. What would you rather us be on drugs?
00:31:10
Speaker
Like, layer okay, don't do the dishes. and Don't sweep.
00:31:17
Speaker
So Ruby actually, like, there's a conversation about like Ruby having a hard time having so many young kids and being pregnant and breastfeeding and all the things like the best mom in the world is going to have moments of struggling.
00:31:32
Speaker
And that's when like the cleaning glitz stuff came. It's like everybody needs to be busy and productive. Okay. Okay. Get out of her hair and get the cows clean. Yes. That's what I think.
00:31:44
Speaker
Okay. And there was just a passage that I found just like just weird. Yeah. So this was after a miscarriage though. So I think that's important to first, like some context of this passage.
00:31:55
Speaker
It, Sherry said that around this time she had preferred miscarriage. Oh, I don't remember that. And Sherry doesn't remember her breathing, but like something changed.
00:32:07
Speaker
but She was grocery shopping. This is dream. a dream. This is a dream. Okay. We can skip that. I didn't realize it was a dream. I thought it happened. It's still weird. It's still the vision.
00:32:20
Speaker
That's so funny. I totally thought that really happened.
00:32:25
Speaker
Okay. We don't need to do that. I still think we should, though. because rest of the mormons thing All right, so it is said that one night she had a dream. She was grocery shopping and saw a little boy standing alone by the apples.
00:32:42
Speaker
Very specific. She asked him where his mommy was, and he told her he didn't have one. Would you like to come home with me, she said. I could be your mommy.
00:32:54
Speaker
And he nodded his head, and Ruby put him in the cart on top of the bread and bananas. What? On top of the bread and bananas, that's... fine he didn't even squish the food. i yeah oh Here's why I think that's important.
00:33:07
Speaker
And it's, it's from what I've learned from the show, Sister Wives. There is a scene where the young, hot, newest wife, they're talking about if they should have another baby, her and the husband.
00:33:19
Speaker
And she's talking about how she's had dreams. I will say, I think TLC is like, every now and then they're like, you got to slow it down. Like, we're not saying it's more mature.
00:33:30
Speaker
We're not saying it's a yes. We're going to say had a vision. You had a dream. She says she has had dreams and she has a spirit baby somewhere out there and that maybe they need to have a, get pregnant again because she's had visions of a spirit baby.
00:33:45
Speaker
And I do think it's a thing of like the belief that your babies are in the somewhere in the heavens and just waiting to choose you. yeah Yeah.
00:33:56
Speaker
And so there is like kind of that thing. And maybe, you know, thinking about it, I don't know, the fact that he was put on the bread and the bananas. Yes. He was perfect.
00:34:07
Speaker
Like this was going to be her perfect child. She did see pregnancy as like a holy calling. So I think what we'll see like when she stops having babies is when things really like start go down the hill. Yeah.
00:34:20
Speaker
We are on to chapter five. This is called Pioneers. This chapter. The family moves into a new house when Sherry was eight and Ruby decided to paint all the walls yellow because she felt like it was... I think they rather small home before and and this. This was a big move.
00:34:38
Speaker
Yeah. um this Yes,
The Impact of Perfectionism on Family
00:34:40
Speaker
this was a big deal. Everything was yellow because it was her favorite color. She wanted everything to be happy and wonderful and perfect. Oh, they talk about their home being in Springville, Utah, which is like a place steeped in LDS history.
00:34:57
Speaker
Yeah, and what is it, like about two hours from salt Lake City? i think so, something like it's a pizza. And I guess, I think Provo. Yes. was That's like the temple they drive to, is Provo.
00:35:10
Speaker
So it's close enough to go to church. Honestly, it not sounds like a nice town. Yeah. At eight, Sherry was baptized. That's the typical age that Mormon kids are baptized.
00:35:23
Speaker
And the sex talk followed. That seems young. I agree. Did you? Apparently so did she. She says, i I was left with a sense of disgust and confusion, viewing sex as a weird, slightly gross thing that adults obviously did out of duty to God rather than desire. Yeah.
00:35:40
Speaker
yeah is kind of confusing. It is kind of confusing. Did you have sex talk with your kids? Yeah. What age? did like 4th or 5th grade. We had, with our oldest, when they had, you know, he had to sign the form at school for them to go watch the movie the talk or whatever.
00:35:58
Speaker
He did not want to go. Did not. And I said, well, that's fine, but then you're going to have to talk with me. And he said, okay. So he was like one of two kids who didn't go. I think the other was for like a very religious family. And anyway.
00:36:13
Speaker
In retrospect, I think he felt like, okay, that was kind of weird to me. yeah We did want to have the talk with our kids before the school talk.
00:36:23
Speaker
We had, with my daughter, she had a really good friend who was a, ah her mom was a physician. And there was like a group of them. And yeah, they had a group talk. Like the physicians, we were a park, picnic table.
00:36:36
Speaker
They all got the talk at one time. I went to Dairy Cowan, all right. when As Sherry was a child, she was like really obsessed with like the stories of her faith, stories of Joseph Smith.
00:36:48
Speaker
And she speaks specifically about a story of the widow of Nauvoo. Nauvoo? I always forget to say it. Who was actually one of Ruby's distant ancestors.
00:37:00
Speaker
This woman was threatened by a mob in like the eighteen hundreds ah that They were going to burn her home down unless she denounced her faith. And she told them to burn house down. Those are faith over her home.
00:37:12
Speaker
And I think this is a huge point of pride probably for Ruby and her family. Being descendants of this proud, strong woman. it It was a sacred family legend. How much from this?
00:37:25
Speaker
No, I wrote down, like she always seemed to have a deeper kinship with her father. Which kind of comes into play interesting later. Yeah. um The big part of this chapter though is the tithing.
00:37:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. After she's baptized, they talk about tithing. And for those who don't, like the LDS church, the general accepted... You give 10% of your income, or even for kids, it's like 10% of your allowance.
00:37:55
Speaker
It's tied to the church. um So in talking about it, Sherry says, so it's like sharing our stuff with God, and then he shares his blessings with us.
00:38:05
Speaker
And Kevin said, exactly. Kevin smiled. When we keep our promises to God, he blesses us in ways we can't even imagine. Yeah. And to me, that feels very like prosperity gospel.
00:38:16
Speaker
If you do, you give all this money to God and he's going bless you in return. Yeah. And when she and asked, well, where, where does this money go? Well, the money goes to build temples and churches and to fund missionary work around the world.
00:38:33
Speaker
and I suppose a missionary work could be considered you know helping others. But even that answer doesn't make me feel like the money is going to help others.
00:38:44
Speaker
No, it's recruitment. shield Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it is known that the Mormon church is very wealthy, has amassed a large fortune. Yeah.
00:38:55
Speaker
And it's a big part of it. I also got the the feeling that they didn't really have a lot of money you know at this time. So that 10%, that's a different amount than 10% for like a millionaire.
00:39:08
Speaker
Yeah, it was a significant. In terms of the impact on the giver. Yeah, yeah. So it was ah it was challenging for them to do so, but ah never a question of of whether or not they would.
00:39:18
Speaker
Yeah. It was also around this time of this talk that Ruby's sisters started going to YouTube instead of their blog. There's conversation of like, there's possibility of making more money. At first, Ruby was like,
00:39:31
Speaker
I'm exhausted being your mother. Yeah, I think it was like, she's gonna, Ruby is going to stay home to be the perfect mother yeah and wife. But here we found a way to maybe make some money to help.
00:39:44
Speaker
Yeah, but what Sherry says as they're talking through this is she couldn't imagine her mother doing this, putting them on camera, because people would see her anger.
00:39:56
Speaker
And she'd never let that happen. Ruby would never let And their aunts, her aunts, so I couldn't help but think about my aunts who had started filming themselves with janky cameras, putting videos on the internet and might be making money out of it.
00:40:13
Speaker
And i from that, I think Ruby, well, if they can do it, I can do it so much better. Yeah. And that's where it started. Yes. Chapter six, Ruby's rage.
00:40:27
Speaker
Lots of chapters about rage. Yeah. um Ruby was always on edge, angry, cruel. mean I don't even know. like I feel like there's a level of anxiety, perfectionism that comes out.
00:40:40
Speaker
And I think that feeling of always being on and being to be perfect, perhaps. And I think sometimes people think that that's a sign of being a better parent. Parenting more.
00:40:52
Speaker
To yeah be in control and to make sure that your children are in line. But... If you're unable to do that naturally and keep your emotions under control, then I think that's where the rage comes in. Yeah.
00:41:08
Speaker
Yeah. And now I'll just, it just reminds me when ah a long time ago, when my son was young and, um, you know, we were kind of going back and forth of whether do we spank or not.
00:41:19
Speaker
And, we went out in the church parking lot and there was a dad just spanking his child so hard. And that was like, at that moment, I'm never doing that again. Yeah. But I think it's ironic that it was at church.
00:41:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. There was, you know, we had a conversation because we attended church and people were very pro-spanking at church. And it was, if we were to the level that we would consider spanking, that means we're angry.
00:41:45
Speaker
And that's not the time to spank. And so it was like, all right, we're not, it's off the table. Spanking is for the parent to take their anger out. and I don't even think it's as much for...
00:41:57
Speaker
or as a punishment to the child as much as, anyways, that might be controversial. Sorry if that's controversial. So we go on in the chapter. Sherry talks about a time when she was nine that she was playing with makeup and her mother called her downstairs to sing and play piano wanted to do like a duet.
00:42:14
Speaker
And she wasn't singing. She just didn't sing. She played the piano and Ruby slapped her and blamed the makeup.
00:42:23
Speaker
but Sherry believes that Ruby believed that, like, This violence was creating obedience. um She says, Ruby's hand would often find its way to my face, a sharp sting of displeasure delivered with precision.
00:42:36
Speaker
Her slaps were calibrated, never hard enough to leave visible bruises, at least on me, but always sufficient to instill fear. In her twisted logic, she was molding obedience, sculpting compliance with each stinging blow.
00:42:49
Speaker
I also think we were just her punching bag, way for her to release her anger. She always seemed calmer. She'd blown off steam on one us. Which Sherry kind of ended up becoming the, like, quote-unquote, kind of the perfect child. Yeah.
00:43:05
Speaker
So maybe in some evil way it worked. Yeah, look but it's based on fears and comedians. And hence, she had to write a book about her child.
00:43:15
Speaker
she did So she she had one younger brother. I think we talked about him, Chad. And he was always considered... Maybe like mischievous. Yeah.
00:43:26
Speaker
Yeah. When really ah what he was, was prankster, but he got in trouble a lot. Yeah. He's, he was not perfect. He was not doing the thing. Like he was not behaving in the perfect way we expected.
00:43:41
Speaker
He was pranking people and being a boy and being, being, yeah, being a little boy. Yeah. Not necessarily a little kid evil, but being, yeah. Prankster. Yeah. Yeah. So speaking of pranks. Yeah. Sherry recounts the time that Chad snuck up and had a chunk of her hair.
00:43:59
Speaker
um She says, ah so she was sitting on the ground, like floor, just reading in her bedroom. And she heard snipping and felt a bit of a tug on her hair. She says, startled, I whirled around just in time to see Chad, my impish seven-year-old brother darting past, a pair of scissors clutched in his hand and and a mischievous grin on his face.
00:44:18
Speaker
My hand flew back. flew to the back of my head where a small clump of hair was now conspicuously missing. And so we see this prankster child doing something I think most kids have done.
00:44:30
Speaker
All my kids cut their own hair. Oh, their own. Yeah. Yeah, I think my mom did their own once. But still. I mean, it's annoying. My kid would get in trouble. There would be consequence for, like, you don't touch other people's bodies and stuff like that.
00:44:46
Speaker
But... But there was more to it with Chad. Well, I think it matters that Ruby loved Sherry's like beautiful, long, thick hair. Yes. And as we go on, we can see there's sort of this trend.
00:44:59
Speaker
There's something about hair that we will kind of see throughout. So again, so Chad was already showing his tendency for pranking and clowning around as many little boys do.
00:45:11
Speaker
He seemed delighted in causing mischief and mayhem. And he was always looking for a new way to get the rise out of people. But this was not funny for Ruby. Yeah.
00:45:22
Speaker
She initially like stormed in and said to Sherry, like, why did you do this to yourself? And Sherry, like, as kids do, was like, it's not me. Chad did it. cha got the consequence yes followed by yeah ruby yelling chatd come here her voice rang through the And I winced Chad was important.
00:45:42
Speaker
So Ruby ends up dragging Chad into the bathroom. um She says, come on, buddy. Let's go to the bathroom. Time for you to have a little haircut, too. Oh, it just sounds so evil the way.
00:45:55
Speaker
Ruby shaved, like, just in the middle of Chad's hair. Ruby had buzzed a thick, uneven strike down the center of his head, leaving him with a harsh reverse mohawk.
00:46:08
Speaker
And Sherry got in trouble too. Yeah, she was trying to intervene and being like, it was just a joke. Like, it's fine. Don't. And she said basically like, well, you didn't stop. them It meant your fault also. Yeah. In this house, we don't make excuses for other people's bad behavior.
00:46:25
Speaker
And then Sherry says, I nodded mutely, my throat too tight to speak. When Ruby went downstairs, I gathered my brother into my arm, stroking his ragged hair. I'm sorry, Chad. I whispered, feeling feeling a crushing sense of guilt.
00:46:38
Speaker
Which is like already she's being parentified in a way. she's She's being the protector. She's become the protector. But twice the guilt. So she gets unnecessary guilt put on herself.
00:46:49
Speaker
Alright, chapter 7. Chapter 7. Called Refuge. So we start when Sherry is 11 years old. Ruby is pregnant with her sixth and final child.
00:47:02
Speaker
ah She describes a strict schedule that Ruby had for the kids. Including like teaching them self-reliance and to do things for themselves. says, next we pack our own school lunches, a daily exercise in responsibility and self-reliance.
00:47:17
Speaker
I remember watching my siblings standing on tiptoes, barely tall enough to reach the counter, carefully assembling sandwiches and selecting fruits. This is how do you become a capable adult, Ruby would say.
00:47:28
Speaker
She also never drove them to school. She made them figure out their own way to school, whether it was walking or the bus or... anything except for their birthdays. It was like a special treat to be driven to school, to and from school.
00:47:44
Speaker
They also would, um as part of their morning routine, between around 6 and 6.30, they would all have to practice their respective instruments. Yeah. And they all did play instruments, violin, piano, or harp.
00:48:01
Speaker
It was necessary. Everyone in the family was... They all had to play something. Yeah. Which, like, I could not imagine my hyperactive ADHD son being like, sit down and play the piano when he doesn't want to.
00:48:13
Speaker
And even at that before school at 6 a.m., can you imagine? So this was just kind of a little thing, but this this struck me. Sherry said we rarely had friends over to the house. Mm-hmm.
00:48:26
Speaker
which Part of me was thinking, okay, we have this house. Everything's beautiful. Everything looks great. that I really thought that Ruby would to kind of show it off. Yeah.
00:48:38
Speaker
But no. No. for My thought was it was a control thing. Having kids in the house means like, ass and less control and almost like, I don't know, just people you don't necessarily want in your home being in your home and touching your things.
00:48:52
Speaker
Yeah. dear and also more prone to see or that's your anger um maybe you know we would feel a need to keep that more in check than you have friends over yeah but it made me feel sad for the kids yeah and it didn't seem like that even adult friends over much at all no so it maybe her way of sharing her home that she was so proud of in her family became through this youtube show yeah exactly sherry talks about uh they would watch movies together when home and like if there was tension or discomfort that was like family movie time would
00:49:27
Speaker
settle it. And I'm a big old Harry Potter nerd, so i found this part very interesting. She, they talked about watching the Harry Potter movies and that Sherry's favorite was the fifth Harry Potter movie, The Order of the Phoenix, and that one's mine too.
00:49:42
Speaker
But it is with Professor Dolores Umbridge. It says, but it but it was the story of Professor Dolores Umbridge that I enjoyed the most for some reason. The tyrannical, power-hungry, condescending, sanctimonious, sadist,
00:49:57
Speaker
who who ultimately faced her comeuppance. Ruby, however, liked the sixth Harry Potter movie. says, there is a specific moment, a scene where Dumbledore challenged about performing restricted magic within Hogwarts simply responds, being me has its privileges.
00:50:14
Speaker
Ruby will quote this line often with a glimmer in her eye. The idea of being above the rules clearly resonated with my mind. And then Cherry goes on to talk about something that I think is normal. i'm kind of I'm kind of curious. So it was during her awkward phase of adolescence, which I think the whole thing is awkward usually, and that she developed a new habit, and that was picking her lips and until they bled.
00:50:38
Speaker
This nervous tick seemed to emerge from nowhere, yet quickly became a constant in my life. I mean, that's a small version of self-harm. Yeah, yeah.
00:50:51
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, i I think a lot of kids. Yeah. Two of my kids are lip pickers. I picked my lips. And I think part of it for me was undiagnosed to ADHD. Yeah. It's just like I'm picking something all the time. And even like, I'm sure people are watching me like touching my face.
00:51:08
Speaker
And, but for my youngest, she had a pretty big hospitalization last year. perfect picking her lips like ratcheted up after that. so it's like, I think anxiety also. Yeah.
00:51:21
Speaker
And if it, something that was prominent enough for Sherry to include in the book was, I think, telling. like yeah So then we, this is where we're going to jump into the journaling portion of it.
00:51:34
Speaker
um LDS church, it's like really ingrained in them to keep records. So this is even individuals and individual families doing record keeping. And my theory is the LDS faith is like, is really,
00:51:48
Speaker
founded on other people's prophecies and visions and stories.
Sherry's Personal Struggles and Writing
00:51:52
Speaker
And I think this is a really good way for the church to be like, if everybody's documenting everything, somebody is going to be a prophet and we'll have their work written down.
00:52:05
Speaker
And we kind of see that with some of these, well, later in the book, we see that with some papers that were very important to Jodi and Ruby that they had kept.
00:52:15
Speaker
um So ah Ruby would have, all of the kids journal nightly. um It actually helped Sherry's anxiety a bit, but and it was very important to Ruby. And she kept her her actual journal entries in the book.
00:52:30
Speaker
Yeah. So we wanted to read this. I think we're going read all the journal entries that are in there. So the first one we have is mom and mom and dad pulled me into their room tonight. They said that all of my friend problems in school were my fault.
00:52:43
Speaker
They said, I'm not a fun person to be around and nobody gets me, which may be true. Then they said it seems like I try on purpose to annoy my family, but the truth is i just don't enjoy being around them.
00:52:55
Speaker
Ruby and Kevin are the ones who annoy me. I finally got invited to a populars party. It's super hard to get invited, so I was excited and I thought mom and dad would be pleased because they're always saying I don't have enough friends.
00:53:07
Speaker
Instead, they said I can't go to the party if there's going to be boys there, which means I'll have to stay home. I'm so mad. Can't they see I'm growing up? I'm not their baby girl anymore. i can manage myself.
00:53:19
Speaker
I am so mad at mom sometimes. Whenever she helps me practice piano, she promises not to yell, but by the time we're done, she's screaming at the top of her lungs. She's so stressed, uptight, and strict that it's impossible to have fun or relax when she's around.
00:53:33
Speaker
Dad, on the other hand, is loose, easygoing, and handles stress very well. One thing's for sure, i am a daddy's girl. Mom has become obsessed with this place called West Point Military Academy, which means she now punishes us by making us condition like soldiers.
00:53:50
Speaker
For example, earlier today, she got mad at Chad me for not putting away the clothes, so she punished us by making us run around the block five times. Then at dinner, Chad was hiding and refusing to help me clear the table, so Ruby made us both do push-ups.
00:54:05
Speaker
Chad for shirking his responsibilities, me for not being enough of a leader. I think that just goes to show when you want to find something wrong, you'll find it.
00:54:15
Speaker
yeah I thought that I really felt for her when she talks about nobody getting her. And when she says that the family seems to think I try on purpose to annoy my family.
00:54:31
Speaker
It's this like weird like dichotomy of like, yeah, a lot of parents wouldn't let their kids go to a party where like boys and girls are unsupervised. But then also it's like, but then I had to be a soldier. It's like normal, like teenage things.
00:54:47
Speaker
And then some just abuse sprinkled in. Yeah. And I would think, i would think Ruby, as she said, she was pushing her to have more friends. I'm sure Ruby was popular when she was young and would very much like her daughter to be popular.
00:55:02
Speaker
But again, that, that die God. Yep. um So we closed the chapter with the continued insistence of Ruby not being friends with her children. So I know I, know, we've talked a little bit about this, like parenting is like that you want to be, you have to be a parent.
00:55:17
Speaker
You have to be open enough. And know, my kids tell me, I think everything. And, but I can also be like, here's consequence. Like, I don't, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I think of my kids as,
00:55:29
Speaker
As my best friends. I really do. Especially now that they're older. But that doesn't mean that they weren't guided. and Disciplined. And taught.
00:55:40
Speaker
But I don't think one has to. okay Yeah. So Sherry threw herself into reading. Especially World War II history.
00:55:51
Speaker
And she read survival stories. And stories of people who resisted. their negative influences. And there's a part that I resonated with as a big old bookworm that she like went into this tangent about like, and Frank and Nazis and all the things that her friends like, that's really heavy.
00:56:16
Speaker
And she like, her friend was kind of like shocked at how intense she was. But yeah, she was like, she was inspired by people surviving. And she just said, I think that's something we can all learn from.
00:56:28
Speaker
Yeah. So that is the end of the first part. We'll be back with part two. um And I think, you know, I like doing this. We'll just keep going part by part.
00:56:40
Speaker
And yeah, hopefully guys like it too. It's our first time. We'll get better at it too. Yeah. And please leave us. And if there's books you want us to look at in the future, we want them to be fun. Kind of books that have to do with some of these headlines. We don't want to get too heavy. in into But we talked about like doing Jill Duggar's book or I know there's a newer Murdoch book.
00:57:05
Speaker
so stuff like that. We're hoping to have it kind of go along with some of our content, but who knows? Maybe not. All right, guys. Bye. next time.