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Can't Be Confined: A Vishaal Reddy Story
1.4k Plays5 years ago
Vishaal's Website: https://www.vishaalreddy.com/
Insomnia The Show: https://www.insomniatheshow.com/
Two Bi Guys is created and hosted by Alex Boyd and Rob Cohen
Logo art by Kaitlin Weinman
Music by Ross Mintzer
Season 2 is executive produced by Rob Cohen and produced by Alex Boyd and Moxie Peng, with support from IFP
Recommended
Transcript
Introductions and Vishal Ray's Memoir
00:00:00
Speaker
It's not easier to be bi. Like if I could be like within like a binary or whatever like that we've society has like taught us to be with like confined to it would make my life so much easier. But oops, I can't be confined. That should be the title of my memoir. Like can't be confined like a Vishal Ray story because that's my life in a nutshell.
00:00:31
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Two Bye Guys. I'm Rob. I'm here without Alex, one bye guy today, but I have a second bye guy with me. He is an actor, singer, performer, writer. He has an awesome web series called Insomnia that he wrote and stars in and features a lot of bisexual content. Please welcome Vishal Reddy. Hello! Thank you so much for having me. How's it going?
00:00:56
Speaker
Very good, you know. As good as can be during this whole pandemic.
Pandemic Life and Mental Health
00:01:02
Speaker
But we're moving forward. How are you? I'm, well, same. I'm good. Like, I'm alive. I have a pulse. I'm breathing occasionally. And I think that's really all I can ask for at this point. Whenever I talk to people about how they're doing, they're like, how
00:01:19
Speaker
they kind of look at me like puzzling and they're like how am I doing like in this like minute you just you just don't know everything's different yeah it changes every day and like I loved your web series like you did that work a couple years ago finished it put it out last year and then pandemic happened I mean let's just get into this part of it now how's your work going since the pandemic do you have any motivation to do stuff is it it's hard for me it depends on the
00:01:44
Speaker
day, I think. So at the beginning of the pandemic, the minute I'm in New York, so the minute that like theater shut down, I knew that it was it was this was going to be something for a little bit. And so I booked a ticket back home to Tennessee where I'm from. And so I was with my parents for five months and like the family down there. So
00:02:04
Speaker
Yeah, I haven't lived at home since I graduated, like since I went to college when I was 18.
Journey of Sexual Identity
00:02:11
Speaker
So it had been a long time to spend with like my family. For the first month, I actively tried to work and then I went, you know what? I'm gonna take care of my mental health and I am not gonna do anything. I can't create anything. What the fuck am I gonna say? There's nothing interesting right now other than like doom and gloom. So I tried.
00:02:30
Speaker
And then now I've started writing again and I've been doing lots of Zoom play and musical readings, which are honestly, I hate them, unfortunately. I'll probably get dragged for that. I just hope this isn't all that exists in the future. I hope we get back to real live theater. Fingers crossed.
00:02:51
Speaker
So before we get back to talking about TV and theater and your web series, I want to start with your bisexual journey, if in fact that is the word you use to identify. So how do you identify? Why do you identify that way? And tell us about like,
00:03:08
Speaker
growing up when and how you became aware of your sexuality and like what was that development like for you? Yeah, so I do identify as bisexual but I have realized that I do use queer and bisexual like interchangeably depending on the room and depending on like whether I feel like I have to explain myself to people because you know that happens a lot with you know
00:03:32
Speaker
being anything other than straight or gay, which we can get into. But I've sort of always known I grew up in Tennessee, I'm a first generation Indian American. And so queerness, any sort of LGBTQIA plus related content or upbringing isn't necessarily valued, I think is it's or necessarily talked about as much, especially, you know, in the early 90s and things. So I grew up in
00:04:01
Speaker
a very conservative, very white, small town in East Tennessee. And my parents were great in that it was more of like a, hey, you are definitely Indian, even though you are American, but you're not gonna forget your culture. And so they instilled that sense of just like, this is how wonderful your
Coming Out to Family
00:04:19
Speaker
culture is. We're gonna send you to India every single summer. You're gonna be immersed in the language. You're gonna make sure that you have a good relationship with your cousins.
00:04:27
Speaker
It was through going to India and starting to see what other people did over there and how affection is different. Two men holding hands in India is not considered queer as it would be here or people wouldn't question it. It is just a sign of friendship. I remember when I was six, I saw two men holding hands and I went,
00:04:49
Speaker
curious with what's going on there. And then I also watched a ton of Bollywood movies and Bollywood movies are very queer like they are they are so inherently queer and dramatic and just they're wonderful but it's very can't the old stuff is very very campy and I was like oh these women are fierce these men are hot like what is what is all this and so that's honestly it was through film
00:05:16
Speaker
that I kind of developed my like, oh, wait a second, something feels different here. Interesting. And then I think when I was like 10 or 11, I kind of like knew. And it was also around that time that I kind of came to my parents, I came out as like an actor to my parents and I was like, I like walked over to them and like had a presentation prepared and was just like, yeah, I'm gonna do this for the rest of my life and I don't know how.
00:05:38
Speaker
but it's good that this is it like i wanna perform and so i kind of set myself up for that and then slowly started coming out i also don't like the term coming out because it's this it's sort of this it makes it this like huge deal and like it should just be something that is a part of a person but not the only thing so i didn't really have like a big coming out i like kind of just like
00:06:00
Speaker
told my parents. I was like, yeah, I'm dating a guy. And they're like, oh, let's unpack that. And I was like, well, this is what it is.
Exploring Sexuality in College
00:06:06
Speaker
And that's kind of it. And that was kind of the the end of it. And it's something that I think we're still figuring out or they're still figuring out and developing and, you know, being comfortable with. But, you know, I have to let them have that time. And then my show came out and they were like, ah, he's doing it. This is it.
00:06:23
Speaker
So before that, did you use the word bisexual with them? Or like, did you just say you're dating a guy and they left them to sort of interpret whatever they wanted? Yeah, I think that's what I did. And I think for the longest time, because I was still figuring it out. And it really wasn't until my like early 20s, like my senior year of college that I was kind of like,
00:06:42
Speaker
I'd only dated women up until that point, but I think I always knew that I was interested in men as well. And I remember my senior year of college, I was like, I need to explore this side of myself. And so I think Grindr was a new thing then, but Craigslist was the thing. And so I remember going
Empathy and Queer Performers
00:07:01
Speaker
on Craigslist.
00:07:02
Speaker
and like finding somebody and we went on a date like that's how like that was like the first guy that I went on a date with and it was so much fun and I was like ah yes I'm into this and so slowly but surely that's kind of how it manifested itself but I'm also a performer so like you're constantly surrounded by queerness and you're constantly surrounded by people
00:07:21
Speaker
discovering things about themselves and coming to terms with a lot of stuff. So that was really interesting to see other people do it and then really hone in on who they are. And I was like, I feel, I don't feel like myself. Why is this? And so you kind of unpack it that way.
00:07:35
Speaker
There is, I was gonna ask, there is this stereotype of being a performer or actor and that being related to queerness in some way, that when you came out as an actor, that might lead to something queer. Is that just a stereotype or is there any actual connection about being a performer, embodying some character and coming to understand openness or fluidity in
Experiences with Biphobia
00:07:59
Speaker
yourself?
00:07:59
Speaker
Okay, well I'll disclaim this by saying contrary to popular belief, I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist. So I don't know what I'm about to say makes any sense or if there's any sort of science behind this. However, I do think that as performers, to be a good performer, you have to have empathy. And I find that queer people, because we face and battle so much just with our sexualities internally,
00:08:24
Speaker
that when we start to be a bit more open with ourselves, and we start to be more open to others about what we are, and who we are, we have to have empathy. And I think those traits go hand in hand with one another. I find that most actors are pretty, especially queer actors, are all pretty empathetic, and I think that's the key there.
00:08:46
Speaker
I think that makes a lot of sense. So you grew up in a pretty conservative area and it sounds like you had a decent experience coming out, quote, to your parents. What about other people that you grew up with? Have you talked to them about it? Have they seen the web series? Like have you encountered biphobia or have people been pretty accepting since you've been officially identifying as bi?
00:09:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think I've had a good amount of luck in that for the most part people have been really really wonderful about it and again like I didn't have the typical coming out process like I didn't go to all my friends and say hey I'm bisexual now or I'm queer now like this is let me explain myself did I have that script in my head for years absolutely
00:09:30
Speaker
I did that whole thing where like you're telling people in the mirror constantly and you're like, okay, well, what if I say it this way? What if they react this way? You just you drive yourself crazy doing that. And so I did that and then I think when I first got to New York, I started dating a guy in like secret because I still was I think I had almost figured it out, but I had it and
00:09:52
Speaker
I remember then I was like, oh, I need to start telling people. I want to start telling people. And so that's what like led me to it. And I just sort of like would casually just like drop it into conversation. I would sort of just be like, yeah, like work was this. And I did this reading and then, oh yeah, I'm like having sex with a man now. Like what, you know, just casually put that. And for the most part, people were really wonderful and cool and all my friends didn't care. And with family and stuff, it's,
00:10:21
Speaker
It's been really interesting because I think it's still a continual process and that like everybody knows, like they all know, but they don't ask questions until like, or they won't ask questions until I bring some, like someone home that's serious. And whether that is, I don't know who that will be. So I think there'll be more questions then, but right now they're just like, look, he's living his life. He's happy. You know, that's all he can ask for. I have encountered a good amount of biphobia, which is always fun.
00:10:51
Speaker
It's always a fun topic of conversation. Can you clock the questions that people are going to ask already? Like there's like four questions that everyone is like.
00:11:00
Speaker
You know, like, which one do you prefer? Like, do you see yourself with one or the other? Are you sure you're not gay? Oh, yeah. And let me follow this up. Are you sure you're not gay? Yeah. Right. Yeah. My doctor even asks me every time I go in, so are you still bisexual? Stop. I'm like, yes. And I like you and you're my doctor, but I'm going to be a bisexual the rest of the time. This person's white, right? Yeah. Yep. There it is.
00:11:25
Speaker
not to there's no there's no correlation between being biphobic and white like don't again don't come for me yes but i will say the most biphobia i actually thought women were going to be like that was what i was most when i started dating and like openly and out i was like god what are women gonna think about this and then i realized that
00:11:44
Speaker
They were really, really cool, but it was white cis gay men that were the ones that always had questions and always had like sort of a preconceived notion about it or like an aversion or a fear to asking questions. And I'm somebody who like
00:11:58
Speaker
Ask me questions. Like don't, don't be rude. Yeah. Yeah. It actually happened a couple months ago, a couple of weeks ago, actually. What happened? Someone, this is also like on zoom. I had gone into like a, you know, that app house party that, so a friend of mine invited me to like a hangout or whatever. And I met some of his friends and I got like brought up that I was, that I was by. And, um, one of the guys who's a white, cis gay man, like,
00:12:26
Speaker
did air quotes around bisexual and then my friend who was in the chat just went, oh no, no, no, Vishal's not the one. Like he's not the one to like make those comments to. And then I just sat him down and I just said here, okay, here's my dissertation on why what you said is wrong. Because now I can just do it quickly and educate and bless them with lots of knowledge, if you will.
00:12:49
Speaker
Yeah, but yeah, I don't it's bullshit. Like I don't tolerate it anymore Yeah, if you are asking out of like earnestness great I'm happy to have the conversation But if you're being petty or like spewing like virtual absolutely not I don't have time for that. Yeah, I'm too grown We're too grown for that. Like it's not cute, you know
00:13:08
Speaker
I agree. I love answering questions about my bisexuality when the questions are earnest. And over and over in gay male spaces, I've found that, you know, sometimes the questions are earnest, but very often the questions are like trying to prove a point. And most of the time that point is that you're really gay, you're not really bi. And I think it's because so many gay men maybe
00:13:34
Speaker
thought about identifying as bi or went through that. Yeah. And they think everyone else is like them or that, you know, they don't have this experience and just it's so invisible that they don't believe it's real and that they think it's easier to be bi. Yeah. No. And like, that's the other thing too, is that like,
00:13:53
Speaker
It's not, it's not easier to be bi. Like if I, if I could be like, you know, within like a binary or whatever, like that we've, we've, we've society has like taught us to be with
Creating Insomnia and Bisexuality Themes
00:14:05
Speaker
like confined to, it would make my life so much easier, but oops, I can't be confined. That should be the title of my memoir. Like can't be confined, like a Vishal Ray story. Cause that's my life in a nutshell.
00:14:27
Speaker
Have you had like a weird, a couple of, like what's the worst experience that you've had with, not to bring up anything traumatic, but what? I mean, I think like I was at a party, like a gay party right before the pandemic and like none of the guys there believed that bisexuality was real. And there were like no women at the party, it was just men. And they just kept constantly asking me stuff. Was this recent? This was in like December, yeah. Absolutely not.
00:14:56
Speaker
Yeah. That's fine. I mean, I mean, I dealt with it enough that it didn't like ruin my night. And I just it just made me think less of the people who were asking me those questions. Like I'm confident enough in it now. But I think when I encountered that stuff earlier, and especially before I came out when I heard that stuff,
00:15:15
Speaker
not directed at me, but just overheard it, that I really internalized. Actually, one of the things that was like a traumatizing experience was I was in the writer's room of Law and Order and somebody senior in the writer's room. We were writing about a guy who's married to a woman who goes out at night to look for gay sex. And we called him gay in the episode. And now I would kind of fight to call this guy by.
00:15:45
Speaker
because he loved his wife. He had kids. Everything was good, except he wanted non-monogamy. And the senior writer said, like, you know, once you suck a dick, you're gay. And everyone laughed and agreed and kind of moved on. And I laughed and agreed, too, because I wasn't in a place yet to say something. And then I just thought about that sentence over and over for years. And it was difficult. Because then I was like, well, I might want to suck a dick, but I don't think I'm gay.
00:16:15
Speaker
But this was a person above me in a position of authority saying that. And it was hard to break out of that. Yeah. Yeah. I've been in those same. I've been in those experiences before. And you look back on those experiences, you're kind of like, God, now I have the best clap back. I have something that would just be so fucking great and so funny. And it would kill. And it would also shut them up, but then also hopefully educate them.
00:16:41
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I... You seem much nicer than me. I don't... You seem very, very lovely. I just don't... I don't have a lot of time for it anymore. Like, I think I used to and now I'm to a point where I think because I'm just very secure with it that if things come up or if I see some sort of injustice, if you will, with this stuff,
00:17:06
Speaker
I don't necessarily mince words. My friend once told me that I have this ability to make people feel bad with like a smile on my face. And so I, which is horrifying. That's like the sign of a sociopath, I think. But I try to be as diplomatic as I can. But when people are actively rude, I don't have time for it. But if they don't realize it, then it's like, is it our job to say something or, you know, is it our job to educate people or is it not on us?
00:17:34
Speaker
It's hard. It's a little bit on us because if it's not, then who else is going to do it? But it's also like you can't walk around being the representative of all bisexual people your whole life. No. That's not fair either. No. And I also like this is I'm only I can only talk about my own experience. Like I can't judge what other people are going through. And like a lot of people make those comments just out of like insecurity. And I'm sure there was something more deeper there than like that joke. But I'm glad that you had that experience because now you know.
00:18:03
Speaker
Yeah. How to react. Yeah. Well, and it's been inspiring for my work to put that into writing. And to, you know, if I think of that comeback later, write about it and shut them up in the script, which is in a way what you've done with Insomnia. So let's talk about your show. You mentioned this biphobia and all these questions you get. You actually had a montage in the second episode of basically everyone on dates asking you all these biphobic questions, which I loved.
00:18:32
Speaker
Let's set the scene a little. Insomnia is about you star and you wrote it. It's about a character named Nikhil who is an escort for both men and women. What I really loved about it the most is that you mentioned bisexuality in the first episode, but it's not the storyline of the first episode. It's mentioned that the character is bi.
00:18:56
Speaker
And then in the second episode, you sort of tackle it a little more head on with this montage of biphobic questions on dates. But again, the episode is not about that in the end. And then it also becomes part of some other episodes. And then other episodes, it's not even mentioned at all, and it's not part of the story. So you really like found a way to make it part of the story, but not the entire story and not the focus.
00:19:25
Speaker
Tell us a little about just how you came up with the idea, where it came from, the writing process, and putting in these bisexual themes without making it 100% about that. Yeah. First of all, thank you. That's very, very sweet of you. The show kind of came about by accident. And I've talked about this online and stuff before, because everyone's like, well, how did you get the idea? Is it autobiographical? And I've said that 40% of it is based off of me, and then 60% of it is
00:19:53
Speaker
very much made up and so i like i said i've always been an actor like that's always just been the goal and so like i was like i think i was like acting singing and dancing out of the womb like it's like everything that i have wanted to do and i remember in high school what my drama teacher miss smart who
00:20:12
Speaker
is one of those teachers that was just like so formative for me, like growing up and she kind of took three people under her wing and she was just kind of like, I want you to know that because you're Indian at this point in time, it's going to be your blessing, but it's going to be your curse. This might take you a while. And I remember thinking, uh, I'm going to, I remember taking that advice very seriously and like keeping it very close to my heart. And so,
00:20:37
Speaker
When I got to New York, I quickly realized that she was right in that, like, my college theater bubble that I was in. Just playing whatever parts I could get, I realized that, like, that's just, you know, not how the industry works. The parts for an Indian person or South Asian people are a few far in between. It's gotten a lot better, but even now, there's still so much work that has to be done, but there's been a lot of progress. But at the time, I wanted to go in for parts that
00:21:02
Speaker
my white counterparts were going in for that had depth and were interesting and dynamic instead of these like bit parts with like stereotypes and so I was like chugging along and there was like a month where I for whatever reason the universe did this to me I was in like final callbacks for like three Broadway shows and like two TV shows and
00:21:23
Speaker
was like, cool, one of these are gonna land. And I was like really excited about all of them. And I found out within a week that I lost all of them. Like they went to somebody else, which is horrifying. And I think I was, I think I was 26 at that point. Like I just turned 26. I was really sad. Cause like, I felt like I had failed. And so I actually quit. I quit for a month. And I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. And then I think after a lot of complaining to my friends, my one good friend of mine was like, why don't you just make something?
00:21:53
Speaker
like go write something. And I was like, I've never written like, I don't know how to do that. And he was like, just go do it. Like you complain about all of this so much, like go and actually try
Character Development in Insomnia
00:22:02
Speaker
to change something. And so I started writing anything that I could and knew I wanted to tell a story about a bisexual person and mental health. That's all I sort of knew. I knew that as an Indian person, as a bisexual person, mental health is extremely important to South Asian people, but it's something that is still very taboo to talk about.
00:22:23
Speaker
and we like to sweep everything under the rug and so I knew that that was really important to me because I wanted it to be something new and different and I knew that for the Indian characters that it centers around I was like I just want them to be and just be able to like just be able to like brush their teeth on camera like that like I mean they're like go to the grocery store like I know that's like the simplest thing in the world but like we don't ever get to just just do simple tasks it's always rooted in some sort of like stereotype or
00:22:52
Speaker
caricature and so I started writing and then I went to a bar one night and I had been trying to figure out what this character's secret was gonna be because I got feedback on a script being like he like there's nothing like what is this like he doesn't have a secret and I was like okay let me think
00:23:09
Speaker
So I shifted through a lot of things and then when I went to a bar, a guy came up to me and asked me if I wanted to be an escort. He ran a little agency and he was like, there's a lot of people that want an Indian person as a fetish.
00:23:27
Speaker
and would you be interested? And I genuinely thought it was my friends just like fucking with me because like these are the kinds of people I surround myself with just a bunch of lovable assholes who are just very sarcastic and I love them but I was like oh this is a joke and I said you know what I'm good thank you so so much that's very flattering but I think I'm good and he before he walked away he was like you know what you're right Indian people don't do this kind of stuff and I went
00:23:51
Speaker
Oh, that microaggression, that's his character's secret, because as an Indian actor, I would never get to go in for a part like this. So it kind of, the series was created in a way of what things don't I get to do as a performer, and then how can we make them new, interesting, and fresh for new people, but also tie in little Indian things, language, cultural things that only Indian people are gonna get, and not explain them.
00:24:19
Speaker
And so that was sort of the goal of it. Awesome. Well, it's really successful and it's, the show turned out great. I mean, it looks really awesome and it's really clever and it moves fast. And so you guys did a great job. I don't know if you had a big budget, but you made it seem like you did. So if you didn't, you stretched it very well. We, yeah, we only shot it for like $58,000 about. Wow. Like the whole thing. So like 10 per episode.
00:24:47
Speaker
Well, not even. 58,000 included post pre-pro cast crew, but then also press our premiere party. We were pulling favors. We were just really lucky that a lot of people believed in it and were excited about it. It was really like a labor of love. How long did it take to shoot? Just curious. Six days. Six days? The whole thing? Yeah, we shot almost 70 pages in six days.
00:25:15
Speaker
Oh my god, that's insane. Yeah, we just did 12 hour days. Wow. It was like very efficient. Yeah, I was gonna say you wrote it very economically and you must have shot it efficiently because like, you have so many locations and characters in that short of time. Wow. I'm even more impressed now. Oh jeez. Yeah, I mean, I just I just knew that I needed to pack a lot of information in but also make it seem very natural and like,
00:25:38
Speaker
Like the story is told from this character was one character's like vantage point but I wanted people to see the peripheral characters that sort of make up the world that he's in but still make it very much his story and I'm proud of it. Cool. Well I loved it. So I want to dig into some of that. You mentioned like the little references to Indian culture.
00:25:59
Speaker
which I thought made it seem very real, even when I didn't get the reference. So, like, I didn't get the reference to the Indian serials, but it made me kind of think that that episode might have some similar thematic elements. Can you tell me what that means and how the serials influence the show? And also, like, the next episode with the pretty racist couple, like, is that stuff you've encountered? Like, how did you decide what to put into the show?
00:26:25
Speaker
Yeah, so I had written this as a pilot to start and we had pitched it to a couple of like networks and they were kind of like, you're not a name, get out of our faces. And I went, okay, fair, give me a year and I'll show you like what I can do. And so then from there I took the pilot and I think the all there are only two scenes in the pilot that made it into this one. So I wrote new stuff.
00:26:48
Speaker
And it's the opening like sex scene, the Star Wars sex scene that was in the pilot. And then the scene with my friends was actually in the pilot. And so I knew that at least with the escorting stuff, I knew that I wanted to show three different kinds of stuff. I knew that I wanted it to be like a boyfriend experience, an actual like sexual encounter. And then I knew that I wanted there to be something with like sex and race because
00:27:14
Speaker
Sometimes in sex, these questions and these comments come up more than you think, and you have to sit down and have these conversations, and sometimes it's as blatant as, like, what happens in the episode. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was inspired from, like, my own experience, but also, like, friends who have had, like, very explicit encounters with people that, like, those words were said to them.
00:27:38
Speaker
Which words for those who haven't seen it? There's a reference to, there's a threesome with a white couple, like a very sort of young, wealthy white couple. And they, in the midst of an act, call the main character a towel head, which is an extremely offensive term. And that has happened to a couple of my friends. Yeah.
00:27:58
Speaker
and not to me directly but like a couple of my friends and so I knew that that was important to talk about and in terms of the Indian things like yeah we there's a little like religious iconography that's in the show that we don't really talk about but like if you're Indian you know the gods that we're talking about like Ganesh the the god sort of makes a quite an appearance throughout the series there's little like
Mental Health in Insomnia and Personal Life
00:28:21
Speaker
Easter eggs in there then there's a scene with my friends and there's like an old Bollywood movie playing in the background that like you can't really see in the final cup like it's there you kind of hear the music and even in that scene there's little Indian things that me and my friends say to one another that like it's just how me and my friends interact with one another there's Indian food like I speak Telugu which is the language that my parents speak in like their state and what I grew up like listening to and speaking so there's like little things in there that we I put in on purpose so that
00:28:50
Speaker
You know, Indian people can get it and also just feel seen and be like, we're not going to explain this to anyone else. Like we don't need to. The Indian cereal comment was Indian soap operas are called cereals. And so they are truly the most dramatic things in the world. Like I, if I wish I could show you, this is podcasting is not a visual medium. I forget.
00:29:11
Speaker
But they are even more dramatic than the ones that we have here. And so when we reference those, it's in a reference to familial drama that's happening with the main character. So yeah. Yeah, I like that. And I loved the racist couple episode, how it built up to that place. There were these little microaggressions leading up to it. And it just felt very real of how racism works.
00:29:39
Speaker
I just felt that I had to, I asked my friends to say those things. I remember sending that script to both of them and I was like, I'm truly so sorry that I am, I'm going to make you say these things and also have like a simulated sex in not a lot of clothing. So like, and that was actually my, those were my first sex scenes. I've never done a sex scene before. And so like, when we got on set, I was understandably like sort of nervous, but I'm also like,
00:30:04
Speaker
I couldn't be, I couldn't appear nervous because it's like, it's my fault. Like it's truly my fault. And I also wrote it. And so it's literally, it's just like, there's no one to blame but me. I noticed that that episode has the most views aside from the pilot, possibly because of it. Does it actually?
00:30:21
Speaker
Yeah, because I just surmised it's because of the thumbnail photo of the three of you half naked. I mean, that's fair. That's fair. My co-stars are very wonderful, smart and attractive human beings. So prob. I'm sure. I'm sure.
00:30:45
Speaker
So you mentioned wanting to write about mental health, which I think is awesome. And we did an episode on that a couple of weeks ago. We've been trying to talk more about that, because as we talked about earlier, it's not easy to be bi. The studies actually show that it's uniquely difficult. So I'm curious. It's so hard sometimes.
00:31:06
Speaker
Yes, you had a support group episode or a scene in a support group for insomnia. Yeah, yeah. I'm wondering like, how much of that is based on reality? What's what mental health challenges have you faced in your life? How much of that did you put in like, what comes from your life and what doesn't? Yeah, oddly enough, I've never, I've never actually experienced insomnia. But when I was thinking about
00:31:32
Speaker
the title I could not figure out what I wanted to call the show because I wanted something that sort of dealt with mental health but then also dealt with like something that was sort of um a play off of night and like escorting and you know the things that happen at night and so I settled on insomnia because I was like
00:31:52
Speaker
Insomnia can be caused by trauma and this character is dealing with a lot of mental health and trauma. I won't give it away so people can watch it so please keep streaming it and so I knew that once I figured out the title I was like oh this makes sense because insomnia is can be a byproduct of like mental health struggles of trauma and also this character is escorting and he's out at night a lot and that you know and he's also finding that like
00:32:18
Speaker
his escorting while a seeker it's sort of is what's giving him the freedom to like be and he starts to sort of harness that like oh I'm good at this and I'm actually becoming the person that I used to be after these like traumatic events so for me mental health has been a journey it's I mean it's still a goddamn journey
00:32:34
Speaker
I've struggled with depression. I like, I like very severe depression. I actually just started taking antidepressants and that was part of my like beginning of quarantine was like being at home and I actually got depressed and my mom and dad were like, what's wrong with you? Like, why are you? And I was like, cool. When I had brought this up before with them.
00:32:56
Speaker
they were like, you're fine. Don't worry about it. Just don't think about it. Everything's fine. We'll take care of you. And I was like, no, there's a chemical imbalance in my brain. And so one of the very lovely things that happened when I was at home was my parents actually got to see me go through a two-week depression. And I was like, this is what happens to me half the year.
00:33:21
Speaker
And I don't know why. Like I have a lovely life and I'm in a tough industry and in a tough city and a lot of that can weigh you down. And so it was because of them seeing that and also having very honest conversations that I, you know, got on antidepressants and I've been, it's changed my life. Like, you know, I know medication is not for everyone, but like it has changed my life. And also.
Cultivating Queer Community
00:33:43
Speaker
talking to other Indian people, especially if they are from India and coming over here. A lot of my family's friends, whenever they'd be like, where are you depressed? Like it's still very, it's still very like, don't talk about this. Like what's going on? And I've just become very open and honest about it. And so I'm very happy that I put it into the show just because I think I
00:34:04
Speaker
had been depressed for like five years and didn't address it until recently and I went through my mid-twenties just depressed the entire time and didn't and could not figure out why I was like so sad and now that I have done that with a combination of therapy it has it truly has changed my life and so I am very vocal about it and
00:34:26
Speaker
you know, a part of like South Asian mental health organizations and like work with them on things just because like I can't express to you enough like how how often it's just not talked about and how people don't want to talk about it because there's a perception that all your problems are your own and you shouldn't talk about them and that you should appear to be perfect and like there's no problems in your life and that all is well and I have friends that are the same way they still care on that mentality and I am very much not like that and so it can be
00:34:54
Speaker
It can cause friction with family, sometimes, and friends. But I don't really care anymore. Good. I know exactly what you mean. And I think that's great that you put it in. The more we talk about it, the better. Because there's so much stigma around it. And there's so much like, don't admit anything if you go to therapy and mean something's wrong with you. But no. Remember when that was a thing? Oh, I know so many people that still think that's the point. Really?
00:35:23
Speaker
I feel like I've surrounded myself with people that like, and especially being in New York, everyone's in therapy. Well, that's true. That's true. When you say you're going to like, you're seeing your therapist, it's like, yeah, I'm going to go get that scone. That's literally what it is. But I remember growing up and hearing a family friend say that they were going to therapy. And I remember just being like, oh, are you OK? What's wrong with them? And they're like, yeah, we're good. This is good.
00:35:50
Speaker
Yeah, I tell my entire family on a daily basis that they need to be in therapy. They don't listen, but they should. Do you have much of a queer community in New York? Do you have a specific bisexual community? I do have a large queer community in New York City, which is very, very great, but I'm always
00:36:07
Speaker
Looking to grow that community Especially like queer people of color. I'm always looking for more queer people of color in my life I I actually don't have a I I don't have a ton of bisexual People in my life now that I'm like thinking about it. Every person is kind of on various identifiers or non identifiers, but I
00:36:28
Speaker
Not a ton of bisexual people. I'm looking, I'm always looking for those people. There's a large queer South Asian population, which is really, really great. And they have been wonderful.
Bisexual Representation in Media
00:36:39
Speaker
And I am sort of still getting to know so many people because it's a much larger community than I actually thought. And so with Insomnia, it's kind of opened my world up to all of them, which has been so great and so, so cool.
00:36:54
Speaker
But yeah, it's lovely. It's really nice. I'm very lucky that I've got that kind of community, but I'm still cultivating it. It's a work in progress. You're kind of always... I've heard this thing where I turn 30 at the end of this year and they say, well, after you turn 30, you don't make new friends. And I'm like, I think that I'm going to do the opposite. I think I'm going to make so many more friends while I'm in my 30s because I actually am finally who I fucking want to be. Yeah.
00:37:20
Speaker
And like, I don't really apologize for it anymore. And all my little quirks and insecurity is like, I just addressed them. And so I think it's a much more fun. It's so much more fun right now. So I'm excited to meet more people.
00:37:42
Speaker
So there's a lot more bisexuality in media the last couple years on TV, on streaming. There still could be more because I think bisexuality is much more prevalent than most people think it is. What are some of your favorite representations of bisexuality in TV or film recently? Yeah, I mean, I think the first one that I remember in Hollywood
00:38:07
Speaker
was Archie Punjabi on The Good Wife. Like I remember that was like one of the first ones where I was like, oh, this is an Indian woman and she's bisexual and it's sort of like unapologetic about it. That's fucking rad. And then I think the one that I can remember
00:38:23
Speaker
recently that I thought was just so funny and well done was Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. Yeah. I thought it was so funny like how that character like came out and I don't remember her, I don't remember their name but. Daryl? Daryl. Is that her name? Maybe? Yeah, yeah. It was her boss at the law firm, right? Yeah, yeah. Her boss. Yeah. I thought that was really like interesting.
00:38:46
Speaker
I'm trying to think. Um, I think the first one that I remember, this is embarrassing. The first one that I remember, um, was Marissa on the OC. Whoa. I watched season one, but I don't even remember the bisexual element. Okay. Spoiler Marissa dies in a car crash, but then comes out of the car crash with no, no scars. Literally she, she comes up pristine. Like Misha Barton just looks beautiful.
00:39:10
Speaker
And like her eyes are closed. It's just, it's like very pretty, but she dies. And before she dies, she has like a, she has a relationship with a woman that is played by Olivia Wilde. It was like one of Olivia Wilde's first, like bigger things. And that was the first time that I think I was really like exposed to like a fluid character in any way and not, because you, they don't really label Marissa. It just, it's just a relationship that she has. And I think that's really, really like wonderful.
00:39:37
Speaker
There's other like UK shows like Phoebe water bridges first show crashing I think was also there was the two men on there and there was also an Indian character Figuring out like they were both figuring out sort of their sexualities. I think like there's also yeah, okay good Well, there's also I made destruction literally about to say that actually finished it which I
00:39:57
Speaker
Yeah, amazing. I mean, it's one of the best things I've seen in a long time. I want to work with her like she is just that was that show was stunning. I yeah, that's goals that I hope to even make a show like an ounce of like how good that was so
00:40:12
Speaker
Totally. And the ways they were exploring sexuality and fluidity and tying that into sexual assault and other kinds of trauma and other types of sexual experiences that are not assault but are unwanted, that I thought was such a great representation of what a lot of people go through and a lot of queer people go through.
00:40:37
Speaker
these things are like hard to categorize and define and they dealt with all that in a very realistic way. And I loved that like it was a show also about a very specific community and
00:40:51
Speaker
it was very unapologetic that and there's so much in that show that is not explained and there's so much language that is spoken that like doesn't have subtitles or food or religion or culture that's thrown in there that we just have to infer and know that like the audience that's witnessing it that's a part of that community I'm sure identifies with it and then I think that's so beautiful to tie that also into this story that's about like
00:41:16
Speaker
sexual assault and trauma and consent.
Hopes for Queer Characters
00:41:18
Speaker
And yeah, no, I thought it was wonderful. I thought it was so good. Is there anything in like mainstream media and these shows like that you think people are getting wrong about bisexuality or fluid sexuality that like you tried to do differently or you would hope that that people do differently as they learn more?
00:41:40
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I know for me, I haven't seen a kind of mainstream South Asian bisexual character ever, like in terms of like on mainstream American television. Maybe I'm forgetting, maybe there might be, and I could be misspeaking, but
00:41:58
Speaker
I haven't really seen anything that like spoke to me and so I think for a lot of queer characters what I hope to see and I think we've moved past this point of like having their queerness be
00:42:11
Speaker
The only thing that is talked about. I think that that's the thing that I think people get wrong. I think the queerness or whatever their sexuality is should just be a part of the entire person. And I think that the actual character in human that's like behind the body or inside the body is actually should be the focal point and like what their triumphs and struggles are. I think that's what I think a lot of like.
00:42:33
Speaker
queer characters are just not that we don't get to delve into that. It's always about their sexuality. One thing that I was really cognizant of too is that like a lot of queer characters are just like hyper sexualized in this way that can kind of get uncomfortable and voyeuristic and it's it's just like you're just sort of watching eye candy do things and there's not really any depth to the characters and
00:42:58
Speaker
What I was trying to really, really focus on was, yes, I'm talking about sex work, but also take that old concept, twist it, but also showing the complexities of what it could be to be a sex worker and like societal pressures. But ultimately at the end of the day, as I have like an entire deck of things that I wanna develop, I think about two things. One, don't I get to see my wonderfully talented South Asian friends do?
00:43:27
Speaker
And then what South Asian centric stories are not being told and why aren't they being told? And so that's sort of my jumping off point in terms of that. And so this was, this was the beginning of
Conclusion and Credits
00:43:38
Speaker
it. Awesome. That's a great note to end on. Cool. Well, thank you so much for being here. This is a really interesting conversation and good luck with Insomnia and all the other projects you're working on and getting through the rest of this pandemic.
00:43:52
Speaker
That's all I can ask for just get through the pandemic like just be safe be healthy Yeah, one thing at a time. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. This is lovely. Yeah
00:44:05
Speaker
Two Bye Guys is created and hosted by Alex Boyan and me, Rob Cohen. Our logo art was designed by Caitlin Weinman, and our music was composed and created by Ross Minzer. Season two is executive produced and edited by me, Rob Cohen, and produced by Alex Boyan and Moxie Pung, with support from IFP. Thanks for listening to Two Bye Guys.