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Sexually Liberated United Together – aka $LUTS Party – with Jon McCray Jones and Natalie Moe
0 Playsin 2 hours
This week I chatted with Jon McCray Jones and Natalie Moe, organizers of “$luts Party”, a monthly sex-positive rave that centers bi and queer people in the Chicago nightlife scene, and hosts of the Fun with $ex Podcast. We talked about their experiences attending play parties all over the world, how “Two Bi Guys” helped Jon recognize and explore his bisexuality, why they decided to create bi-inclusive and fluid-focused rave and play parties, what those parties are really like, and how that scene promotes self-discovery for individuals as well as new ways of being in relationships.
For 20+ minutes of bonus content with Jon & Natalie (on masculinity, consent, the wildest things they've seen at play parties, and more) plus full video and early access to all episodes, subscribe on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/robertbrookscohen
Sign up for group coaching with Rob: https://calendly.com/robertbrookscohen/group-coaching-community-building
Rob’s website: https://www.robertbrookscohen.com/
$luts Party on IG: https://www.instagram.com/slutspartychi
$luts Party Linktree (events, tickets, podcast, etc.): https://linktr.ee/slutspartychi
Fun with $ex Podcast on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fun-with-sex-podcast/id1742478612
Fun with $ex Podcast on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@fwspodcast
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone, welcome to 2BiGuys. We're gonna get right into it today, but just a quick note, if you're listening to this when it comes out, I'm doing another group coaching and sharing session on Sunday, March 16th at 3 p.m. Pacific time, 6 p.m. Eastern and everything in between. Donation-based, free to sign up, link is in the show notes. If you're listening to this after that, just check my website and check my social media for info on my coaching offerings.
00:00:23
Speaker
And now without further ado, here is a lovely episode about bi-centered and queer-focused play parties. Enjoy.
00:00:37
Speaker
Bye.
Meet the Guests: John McRae Jones and Natalie Moe
00:00:42
Speaker
Hello everybody, welcome to 2BiGuys. I'm Rob, I'm here with two guests at once today, double whammy, double header. My guests today are the organizers of Sluts Party in Chicago, a monthly sex positive rave that centers bi and queer people in the Chicago nightlife
Origins of Sluts Party
00:01:01
Speaker
scene.
00:01:01
Speaker
Welcome to 2BiGuys, John McRae Jones and Natalie Moe. Hi, welcome. Hi, thanks having us. Yeah, thanks for having us. Yeah, you're welcome. I'm excited for you to be here. we um we connected somewhere on Instagram last year in the last season and had to wait till now, but I'm excited to hear about this party.
00:01:23
Speaker
So what i kind of want to just like get right into it and hear about the party and we'll learn more about you guys and your backgrounds as we go, I think. So tell me just about like what is Sluts Party and and how did it come about?
00:01:40
Speaker
Yeah, so John initially got the idea for Sluts Party because there just aren't really any spaces in Chicago where you can be sex positive, you can of explore your sexuality, but there isn't quite the pressure to play. um Because we've traveled all over going to sex clubs, play parties, and sometimes it's just nice to be able to do the part of the party where you're meeting people and getting to know people and making connections without the kind of like,
00:02:10
Speaker
Like, do I want to go off into a room and play? And that was definitely a big thing for me being demisexual, just kind of not always feeling like I'm connecting enough with someone to play, but still wanting to connect with other sex positive people.
00:02:25
Speaker
and E&M people and that sort of thing. um So we had our first party in June 2023. um And it's really blown up since that our community has expanded quite a bit. And within that, it's been really cool to create a space that really centers by and pan people. um Because so much of our philosophy and values is we really wanted it um a queer community where all queer identities are accepted.
00:02:55
Speaker
um Because sadly, there's so many, you know, places that are advertised as queer spaces, but myself as a femme isn't welcome, or John as a black man isn't welcome.
00:03:07
Speaker
And overall, as a bi person, you know, a lot of times you kind of don't fit into the straight or the gay club. So it's been really cool to curate this space where bisexuality is not just a part of it, but it's celebrated too.
00:03:25
Speaker
Yeah, I love it. John, i have so many questions already, but anything to add, John?
Influences from International Sex-Positive Spaces
00:03:31
Speaker
ah For me, we went to House of Yes in New York and perfect party in Mexico City.
00:03:36
Speaker
And there was all of these amazing spaces that were sex positive around the country and even like internationally, like Torture Garden in London. And we kept finding these spaces when we traveled, especially when we originally lived in Milwaukee.
00:03:50
Speaker
We would leave, what, Natalie, like four or five times a year to find queer sex positive spaces. But for a city as massive as Chicago, there wasn't that space. And we kept having connections with people on field. And we hosted private house parties with 30, 40 people in our two bedroom apartment.
00:04:08
Speaker
it wasn' hot It was ridiculous. And we hosted these bi-play parties and people were like, well, this is really cool, but I wish that there was like a dance party or a third place that we can meet that wasn't always a play event.
00:04:22
Speaker
And I started like putting these pieces together of all these really fun dance parties that we've experienced around the country. And Chicago Not Had Me That and also bi-sex parties we were hosting in our apartment.
00:04:35
Speaker
And we were like, hey, why don't we create this party ourselves? So in late April and May of 2024, we started working together with friend Bree, who I wish she could be on this podcast too.
00:04:48
Speaker
We started putting the pieces together of what a bi-centered, sex-positive dance party without sex on site looks like. And then we got really lucky. We found a venue hosted by a bi-black man named Don Brown in Never Have I Ever.
00:05:03
Speaker
And he was a former DJ. And he basically was like, I love the idea that what you guys are doing. Chicago has a lot of gay men spaces and a couple like sapphic parties.
00:05:13
Speaker
But there was really nothing that centers bi and pan people. And we were like, he was like, yeah, as a bi man, I feel seen in your party, in your spaces. I would love to host your inaugural party. you know And then we can see our where our relationship goes after that.
00:05:28
Speaker
So he brought us in for our Barbie party in, but that was June, end of June during Pride weekend. The party was a huge success. Leading up to it, we were super nervous because we had, what, three weeks to sell tickets for the party from the day that Dom gave us the venue to the day that we hosted the party. We were putting up flyers all around Boys Town. were on field advertising this to all the bi-sets, positive people we can find.
Success of the Inaugural Sluts Party
00:05:54
Speaker
We were so scared that this party was going to flop. And we're like, maybe this is just our echo chamber of horny bisexuals that we know are in this. But the first party sold out. We had over 1,000 followers before we hosted the actual party.
00:06:08
Speaker
So what, like 360 tickets? And it was a massive success. The party really blew up after that. Wow, that's huge. And it's so hard. Like, I find it's hard to get people out to these things. Like in New York, there is NSFW and I've interviewed Daniel Saint on here. And that was similar to what he was doing, trying to create a buy specific and buy focused business.
00:06:34
Speaker
space. And I think it's like getting traction. But at the beginning, he struggled to get people to the buy part of it, like to the buy specific events.
John's Journey to Embracing Bisexuality
00:06:45
Speaker
And I'm not sure why. So it's amazing to hear that there was so much interest there um and that you're bringing it to Chicago. I guess that's the goal is like... do this all over, right?
00:06:56
Speaker
ah Tell me about more about your travels, like the pervert party in Mexico City, you met is that what it was called? Like, what was that like? and And where else have you like explored these scenes all over the world?
00:07:09
Speaker
Do we take this one now or do you want to go first? I mean, I guess kind of our origins with all of this exploring sex positivity, non-monogamy, all of that sort of stuff was actually in like traditional swinger clubs.
00:07:25
Speaker
um You know, we were brand new to non-monogamy and we were traveling a lot because we lived in Milwaukee and there wasn't much of like a queer or non-monogamous scene there.
00:07:36
Speaker
um And we were just trying out all these different sex clubs when we traveled. And that's really what, you know, people always ask, like, how are you guys so good with consent? How are you so good with coming up with these policies that keep people safe? And it really is built upon, sadly, those bad experiences of, you know, going to all these swinger clubs and just always being like,
00:08:00
Speaker
oh man, like this, something was missing or this didn't feel good or that wasn't affirming um and that sort of thing. So that's kind of like the origins, but I think John could probably dive a little bit more into like more recent events that inspired this.
00:08:16
Speaker
Yeah, and kind of building off what Natalie said, we actually started off in the kink community. Then we saw the movie, not movie, the TV show Sex Life on Netflix.
00:08:27
Speaker
um really fun and they had a sex party scene and I remember me and Natalie were watching it and at first this is when we were still monogamous we have never been fully monogamous monogamous in our relationship we had this like hall pass we called it consensual cheating because we didn't even know the non-monogamy community ah existed so we thought we were doing our own thing and we watched this Netflix series called Sex Life and During one of the episodes, she goes to a sex party and me and Natalie were like, we would never do that.
00:08:58
Speaker
Oh my God, this is, this is weird. But then like, as the scene was going on, I kind of was like, well, you know, this is kind of hot. And Natalie was like, this is kind of hot. And then we were like, wait, are you into this? And then she was like, I am if you are.
00:09:12
Speaker
And that sparked conversations. And back when I was identifying as a straight man, it just happened a month later Me and some friends went to the gay 90s in Minneapolis, if you're familiar with that space.
00:09:25
Speaker
No. It's this massive queer venue. ah It's like four different floors. They have a cabaret room. They have a room where you can strip down to your underwear. And they have two massive dance floors on the first level.
00:09:39
Speaker
So they were hosting kink and non-monogamy night. And it was me and my two other straight friends. One who we ended up converting, not converting, but he ended up doing monogamy years later.
00:09:50
Speaker
But we were all there for boys trip and we were like, hey, let's check out this non-monogamy and kink ah night at this gay club. So we paid the extra $10. We went into the room and it was swingers and queer people and kinksters.
00:10:05
Speaker
And the environment was just so freeing and liberating. And remember I was talking to this couple and I was basically just trying to understand how this dynamic worked. And the wife was like, yeah, we can make out. And I was like, wait, we're we're allowed to do that? That's okay. And she was like, yeah, I'm an adult.
00:10:23
Speaker
I'm attracted to you. You're an adult. You're attracted to me. we can make out. And I just couldn't like conceptually understand that type of freedom because I was raised Southern Baptist in a very traditional religious home.
00:10:37
Speaker
So now it's not thrown, but this was like one of my first times I've ever gone to a gay club too. So, and I'm still, I didn't find a straight and introduced to kink and not introduced to kink. I knew about kink before, but being it introduced non-monogamy. Yeah. This was crazy.
00:10:52
Speaker
a life-changing moment for me. And like the freedom and like the acceptance and the love in that space has really brought me in. And I know that a lot of people think that people turn to non-monogamy for sex. And I think that's perfectly okay. Like I also love the sex aspect that comes with like non-monogamy, but I also love the community aspect and the idea that just like some people bond over football and other people bond over books and other people bond over drag shows.
00:11:21
Speaker
our community bonds over sex and sexuality. And like that's not the only
Exploring Bisexuality and Misconceptions
00:11:25
Speaker
thing we do with each other. We go get food, we watch shows, we text each other, we're each other emotional support, but what brings us all together is our shared love of like sex and sexuality.
00:11:35
Speaker
So over the next couple months, me and Nat started hosting. Well, first we started going to play parties in Milwaukee. And they were like, hey, why don't we host our own play parties? They were rough.
00:11:46
Speaker
We didn't know what we were doing. We were only non-monogamous for like two months at that time. I forgot. We went to Atlanta in between. And we went to a sex club in Atlanta together and had a ah good experience what that we brought back to Milwaukee. We started going to the Milwaukee King Club that had swinger nights.
00:12:03
Speaker
I want to say like every weekend, like we stopped going out dancing because we were so in the sex club slash King Club space. We tried to host our own. Wasn't great. We were 22 year olds with, would you say like two months of experience being like in the non-monogamous community?
00:12:20
Speaker
We definitely didn't pay our dues and like learn what to do and how to do it. But then we started traveling. We started going to Houston and Miami and New Orleans and back to Atlanta and And we started going to all these ah swinger slubs.
00:12:34
Speaker
we started picking up little things that we wanted to bring back to our parties. This party had a wristband system that was really good for consent. This party does a consent talk that was really good. And then we started getting people from Chicago to drive 90 miles up to come to our sex parties in Milwaukee in our one-bedroom apartment.
00:12:53
Speaker
And they started to grow really nicely. And then we went to Spain. and then we were introduced to the European scene. which was a lot queer, which was really cool. And then we went to Toronto, which was also a lot queer. And that's where I discovered my bisexuality.
00:13:09
Speaker
Do you mind if I tell a very explicit story real quick? Please. We love explicit stories here. And I was, I was going to ask you about your journey with your sexuality. So yeah, let's hear. So first and foremost, my journey of my sexuality started with you and your podcasts.
00:13:25
Speaker
Oh my God. Yeah. who So I discovered two by another convert, a two bag. I was, I am trying to convert unlike you. I am trying to convert as many people as possible to bisexuality and non-monogamy. That's my mission.
00:13:40
Speaker
Okay. Go ahead. For a long time, I guess, with mine not to like, take over this conversation. But for like a long time with my bisexuality behaviorally, i was very bi. um i had mass partners who would interact and play with for since like my freshman or sophomore year in college so since i was 18 19 but i identified as straight and i would always come up with justifications to myself of like this is why i'm still straight uh it's almost like the funny memes where the guys are like well we had our socks on so it doesn't count but i was like rationality to myself that like i'm still straight and i thought that my bisexuality threatened and interfered with my masculinity
00:14:24
Speaker
um so yeah i discovered your podcast because i was doing a think piece on frank ocean and his bisexual songs and uh what is the name of that album natalie do you remember the album that like is very bisexual is it's like the second album that came out by frank ocean uh blonde yeah so blonde i was doing the think piece on blonde that was writing up for medium And I was like, well, I need to get into the mind of a bisexual man to understand and like do a think piece on this.
00:14:53
Speaker
So I started listening to your podcast and the things you were talking about really resonated with me. And the the fact that like bisexuality doesn't threaten your masculinity and that bisexuality It's still ah valid identity, and it doesn't mean that you're gay, because I knew I wasn't gay. I knew that was very much attracted to women and femmes, but I didn't know, growing up Southern Baptist, I didn't know there were other options out there.
00:15:17
Speaker
And even at this point that we were still non-monogamous, we only went to very heteromarmative swinger clubs. So all of the people that we interacted with were quote-unquote straight, or all the men that I interacted with were quote-unquote straight,
00:15:30
Speaker
So I didn't have that bi representation until your podcast. And it showed me that like, hey, you can be bisexual and on a spectrum of bisexual, that you can have a preference for femmes and women. Because I knew that I had a strong preference for a certain gender expression.
00:15:46
Speaker
had a strong preference for femininity, but that doesn't mean um not bisexual just because... I had like one gender expression more than the other. So then listen to your bi your podcast. Me and Nat went to Pride for the first time in 2022.
00:16:01
Speaker
And then the... Was that the fall of 2022? We went to Toronto. We went to a massive house party. And me and Nat met this... Femme Dom and her two max subs.
00:16:14
Speaker
So me and Nat were playing together on one of the floor mattresses and Femme Dom walks over and she's like, hey, can me and my subs watch? And we were like, yeah, go for it. And then they were like, hey, can we touch?
00:16:25
Speaker
So they started touching. We slowly started interacting. Then we had a conversation about what we consent to, what we don't. And all three of them identified as bisexual. i think pansexual, but all three of them identified as queer.
00:16:38
Speaker
Nat was like, hey, I'm bisexual. And I was like, oh, I'm straight. But then during the course of the orgy, I guess, the five sum, Nat was off of one of the subs and me, the film dom and the other sub were playing together.
00:16:52
Speaker
This is going to get very graphic. So love it. The film dom was getting fucked by one of the subs while I'm underneath her eating her out. And the penis pops out and it just happens to like land on my lips. And I was like, well, you know what?
00:17:06
Speaker
Fuck it. I'm going to go for it. And I suck. I started to suck his dick and he pulls it and he's like, hey man, ah you told me you were straight. Is everything okay? I didn't mean to violate your consent. And I was like, oh no, no. Like I voluntarily did that.
00:17:18
Speaker
And I was like, I kind of like it. So this turned into all three of us interacting and playing together. And then Nat and the other sub joined the backend and then all five of us had an interaction The next day we went to another play party in Toronto, had my second.
00:17:35
Speaker
No, this is not my second bisexual experience. I had bisexual experiences in college, had my second recent bisexual experience. And then we had a 13 hour car ride back home and a lot of time to talk to each other.
00:17:48
Speaker
And that was like, hey, John, um you're going all out for pride. You're buying like bisexual flags for me. You're writing think pieces about Frank Ocean and Lady Gaga's poker face, these bi anthems. um You just had three sexual partners who are max identifying.
00:18:05
Speaker
maybe we should have conversation about your identity. And I was like, yeah. And she also knew that I've had, like, mass partners before. So she was like, maybe maybe we should have a conversation about your bisexuality. And Nat's loving and acceptance of acceptance of me being bi and accepting that identity and celebrating that identity was also very essential for me and loving myself and accepting myself.
00:18:29
Speaker
Because I know there is a lot of like cis femmes who still have a lot of like biphobia to their partners. Yeah, cool. i want to I want to hear your side of that in a moment, Natalie, but i like it's so common what you're talking about of like, oh, well, I'm more on this side of the spectrum, therefore like you can justify straightness for longer. and And I even saw something on Instagram this morning where it was like so a comment on something like, well, I'm 90% straight and most people think being bi is 50-50, so I don't want to
Natalie's Experience with Bisexuality and Non-Monogamy
00:19:06
Speaker
identify as bi. But it's like, that's a misunderstanding of what bi is. And actually, like there's sort of so much diversity within bi. And its it's amazing that you you know got to the point where you were like, okay,
00:19:19
Speaker
i I'm within that umbrella and I'm over here. Like ah like you figured out your your place in it. I think we should just ah orchestrate as many scenarios as possible where a dick ah dick falls on the lips of a straight man and see what he does.
00:19:35
Speaker
That would be an interesting experiment. It's great position to be in. You just have to make a decision. If people had to make that decision, I bet many people would go, let me, you know, let me try it.
00:19:48
Speaker
And then they would realize it's kind of fun. Okay, go on. Yeah. And that's like the one really interesting thing about like Julia Shaw's work. I think you might've had her on the pod. Yeah. You did have her on the podcast. yeah Yeah. That's actually how I discovered her work was that behaviorally, a lot of people are bisexuals.
00:20:06
Speaker
yeah And what I kind of realized throwing sluts, because we have this very bi-centered party that welcomes all gender and sexual orientations and identities. We get a lot of people who traditionally identified as gay or lesbian who come to our parties and they're like, hey, I'm actually bi.
00:20:24
Speaker
But like i have a preference for people who have the same gender expression as I do. But because there's so much biphobia in the gay and lesbian space that I don't tell people that I'm attracted to multiple gender expressions.
00:20:39
Speaker
And I like really, really hold that in because i don't want to be ostracized from my community. But then they come to sluts and they're like, well, this is my people. I found my people.
00:20:51
Speaker
So our party ecstasy, we're holding at a very traditional gay bar that has historically been a gay bar. And a lot of their crowd came to our first party on...
00:21:01
Speaker
January 18th, I think it was, or January 19th. And we're like, oh, these are like a lot of like gay men who are coming to like a bisexual party. Let's see like how they like it. But then me and Natalie started having separate conversations with these guys. And they're like, yeah, I'm like 80% gay. Or I'm to the same gender. I have a partner of the same gender. I only hang out in circles of people of the same gender.
00:21:26
Speaker
But I'm and like I never feel truly feel validated at... these spaces when it's all gay men, but then when i saw that this was a bi-centered party being held here for like the first time, I wanted to check it out and now I feel validated.
00:21:41
Speaker
And that's been experienced with our normal sluts party too, where we get a lot of people who come in for the first time they get to explore their bi identity, not just from the cis-heteropresenting couples, but from the gay and lesbian-presenting couples.
00:21:53
Speaker
Right. It's amazing how like, I mean, it's great to center by and the word by and use it, but it's also like a great to, to have like a party that's about fluidity and exploration that isn't even part of a label so that, so that people who might identify more with gay or lesbian can still come and think, okay, I'm going to explore my boundaries. And what does that mean? And maybe I'm a fluid gay person or something like that.
00:22:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:29
Speaker
Natalie, tell me about your sexuality and your journey. You said you identify as bi, but like when when did you know that? What's your journey been like? And then I want to hear about how you two met and your relationship.
00:22:42
Speaker
Yeah. so the context for me coming out as bi is I came out when I was around 19. um But I hadn't even had sex for the first time until I was 18. So I think I was just kind of someone where, you know, I came from this very traditional Roman Catholic household.
00:23:04
Speaker
And, you know, all of a sudden I'm discovering my sexuality and unpacking sexual shame and unpacking um like the gender norms that are pushed upon women and Regarding, like, not being able to enjoy sex and, you know, you shouldn't want to hook up with guys and do stuff like that.
00:23:25
Speaker
And, like, weirdly enough, being queer wasn't necessarily something that was seen as bad in my family's eyes. Like,
00:23:36
Speaker
He had queer relatives and friends and everything like that. So I didn't really, when I was kind of like thinking about, you know, experimenting with girls and being bisexual,
00:23:48
Speaker
It didn't really feel like i wasn't into the idea of having this emotional coming out moment. Like I was like, i was, I wanted me having sex with a woman to be viewed the same way as with a man, you know, like just this is, oh,
00:24:08
Speaker
She was dating a guy this month. Now it's a girl. Now it's a non-binary person. Like, you know, and for in regards to coming out to my friends, that's how I really just wanted it to go.
00:24:20
Speaker
So that's like normal, not a big deal. just like, yeah. um yeah and i understand like that's a very affirming and validating experience for people to have those more emotional moments especially in regards to like family of origin and stuff like that but for me you know i was just kind of like i told my friends i was like yeah i have my tinder set to girls now and they were like okay Cool.
00:24:49
Speaker
And then it was actually funny. I helped someone else on their queer journey. One of my friends was like, well, you have your Tinder set to girls and you're straight. And I was like, no. And now she's happily been dating a woman for like years.
00:25:03
Speaker
oh but basically like you know I was on tinder for girls but had never quite acted on it or anything and i was you know just dating guys and everything
Fluidity in Relationships and Sexuality
00:25:17
Speaker
and I was with this guy and eventually my best friend was like hey so I saw you on tinder I was like oh okay so you're on tinder for girls too And she basically proposed. She was like, hey, would you like to figure this out together?
00:25:37
Speaker
um So yeah, we started experimenting. And it's very interesting because that's what led John and I into non-monogamy is very shortly after starting to hook up with that friend, i got with John, like,
00:25:52
Speaker
October 2019 and then flash forward to when we were more seriously dating in summer of 2020 I was like hey you know I'm bi I haven't had a lot of opportunities to explore being bi you mind if I still hook up with this friend that I used to hook up with and he was like yeah I don't see an issue with that and I was like okay cool and then more time progressed and I was like fuck I kind of miss hooking up with mask people too and I was like so confused because I was like I love John and I want to be with him but I just like I miss sex with other people and you know we were in a really healthy dynamic and he loves me a lot and cares about me a lot so I felt comfortable enough saying like
00:26:43
Speaker
hey, this is just how I'm feeling and I don't know why and I don't understand it, but this is something I miss. And he was like, honestly, yeah, I don't have an issue with that. and Yeah. Cool. Two things that makes it... The the first earlier, like it's funny that in both of your stories, there are straight people who are desiring fluidity within a straight label. Like like the friend you mentioned, Natalie, it's like,
00:27:11
Speaker
oh, well, you're your have it your Tinder set to women and you're straight. Like in her mind, like that's still possible and which it is like whatever. You can call yourself straight and do whatever you want. But like there's a desire for that, for fluidity while maintaining the straight label, which is just interesting to me. And I think it points to like There's so much fluidity under the surface and the labels and the stigma are holding people back from exploring it because they don't want to completely change their identity and completely change who they are.
00:27:47
Speaker
And what what they don't realize is like, you're not completely changing who you are You're just... You're just using a word to describe a very normal thing. ah And then the other thing I like about that is like it also is a great story about ah the the fluidity of relationships. And I think, you know, it's great to explore sex with your friends because you're comfortable. And what why not? It's nice. How did that work out? Are you two still friends?
00:28:16
Speaker
Yes. And yeah, that's exactly how I feel too, is that's why I love being poly is we don't have to like try and fit round pegs into square holes for every relationship.
00:28:30
Speaker
um Because that was such a thing when, you know, everything was out in the open and me and this friend were like, ah sexual tension is like, I had some people in my life that were like, no this is going to go horribly wrong.
00:28:45
Speaker
You're never going to be friends again. And you guys are best friends. And then I had other people who you know, are still my much closer friends. who are like, yeah, I mean, i don't see an issue. You guys are already super open about everything and, you know, go for it.
00:29:03
Speaker
um And lo and behold, it's like, We both were emotionally intelligent enough to be able to hook up and be friends. And honestly, that makes a lot of sense for me, considering I hook up with like most of my friends in Chicago now. um But yeah, like that definitely is a part of polyamory that resonates a lot with me.
00:29:26
Speaker
Because I have this whole friend group where we're pretty much all bi girls. So it's like, I've hooked up with a couple of them, you know? like yeah yeah Yeah, it's super natural for me.
00:29:40
Speaker
I also love that like it makes sense to me that that bisexuality can lead to opening things up because it's like, OK, we're together, but I want to explore this other side of me that like you know John is a man, not a woman. And so like and I want to explore that the side of me that is attracted to women and and that made sense to you, John. So you like said, okay, I think that that applies to so many other things beyond gender.
00:30:08
Speaker
And yet people think about it differently. Like monogamous people tend to think about it differently where it's like, you can love your partner and get a lot of great things from that relationship.
00:30:20
Speaker
But yeah, not
Gen Z's Role in Cultural Shifts
00:30:22
Speaker
necessarily everything. Like, isn't there always stuff that's interesting to explore that isn't exactly what your partner is or what they love to do? Or they like, like just like it's something different and something novel, even if it's not gender is, is also what I like to explore about polyamory, like, or non-monogamy, like kk kink or different energies or dom and sub. Like there's always something And yet when it's not about gender, sometimes that's harder for people to say yes to opening up.
00:30:55
Speaker
So I actually have a thought on that. So like, I think the rise in bisexuality and the rise of gender queerness and the rise of queered labels and like Gen Z are all collaborated. I don't know that's the word to use, but the idea that once you start seeing through binaries, because also, like, more Gen Z is open to the idea of, like, non-monogamy.
00:31:21
Speaker
The idea that, like, hey, I don't have to be a man or a woman, or I don't have to like only men or women or my gender or different gender. You start understanding how...
00:31:34
Speaker
I guess how fake and socially constructed all these rules are. then the idea that in the world of 7 billion people, the idea that you're only going to be attracted sexually to one person for the rest of your life or one person at a time, or that you're only going to be attracted to one gender expression, or that even your own personal gender doesn't have any fluidity to it.
00:31:55
Speaker
I think you start to realize that that's not true. And a lot of this is socially constructed. I'm not one of those bisexuals who believe that like everybody's bi. But I do think that like if we lived in a society where the status quo was open to fluidity, I believe the vast majority of people would be bi.
00:32:13
Speaker
and I think that, I don't remember the Azet poll, but there was like a poll YouGov that was looking at bisexual people between like 18 and 25 in the United States, Germany and Israel, if I got the three countries correct. correct And like over time, more and more people are identifying as bisexual.
00:32:31
Speaker
And I think it's because we're starting to realize that like the status quo is very socially constructed. And if we can kind of see through that, that bill, we can kind of find true authenticity in a way that I think queerness and like non-monogamy allows you to do I don't know if that rant made sense, but like that's something I've just been sitting on for time.
00:32:51
Speaker
Yeah. That's exactly what I was going say, is I think a lot of bisexual people have an openness in multiple regards, you know gender queerness, non-monogamy, because we're so used to not fitting in a binary.
00:33:06
Speaker
like You go to a straight club and it's just bad experiences, but then... If you go to like very particular gay or lesbian bars, you can also have a very bad experience of like, you know, one of the really meaningful conversations I had with somebody at one of our events was a man came up to me and said,
00:33:28
Speaker
You know, this is the first time I've been in a space where I was actually celebrated as a bi man. And he was just telling me as somebody where most of his friends are gay men and he goes to all these gay men events, there's always this air of like,
00:33:44
Speaker
Oh, oh, you're bi? Yeah, sure. Or like not really believing or making a joke. And even his own partner who was a gay man was like, yeah, even I had a hard time really conceptualizing this and like understanding it fully. So...
00:34:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's kind of that level of like we're so used to just not fitting into either box that maybe we're just open to ah just kind of like pushing the whole system down and like reimagining.
Impact of Sluts Party on Community Building
00:34:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:15
Speaker
yeah and it's Yeah. And it's so fun because on the other end of the spectrum, we have like a lot of cis couples from like the swinger community who comes to our parties. And it's funny watching the progression of like their outfits and like their expressions.
00:34:29
Speaker
From like, we did the Barbie party in January. it was still like very heteronormative. But over the course of the mums, because like Sluts Party is very gender fluid with the participants who come to our events, you start seeing like cis men start wearing lingerie.
00:34:47
Speaker
And was talking to like one cis man who used to like wear blue jeans and like a button up to the early parties. And he's like, I feel pretty. Like I feel sexy and like a sheer top. and like a jockstrap and you also start seeing like more and more people from these traditional cis couples were like the man identified as straight and the femme identify the mass person identified as straight and the femme person identified as bi you start seeing more and more of them identifying as bi was really funny so back in august we have this couple that we're friends with and we're out in the group and nad and me are hanging out with them and like
00:35:24
Speaker
Nat kisses him and like me and her make eye contact and I'm like, hey, are you bi? And he's like, oh no, no, no, like I'm not bi. And he reacts like very defensively. But then he's like, I think he felt bad. he I think he thought he offended me. So he was like, well, I can give you a quick kiss. And I was like, it's OK, man. If you're straight, you're straight.
00:35:41
Speaker
But fast forward seven months, I think i I'm not good at math. We just did ecstasy in January. And he responds to a Sluts Party story and he was like, this is so fun that there's a bi-centered event that celebrates bisexual, like sexuality.
00:36:00
Speaker
I wish there was a bi place I could go to every weekend in Chicago. And in my head, I was like, wait, you identified a straight last summer and now you're saying you want to go to a bi event every...
00:36:11
Speaker
every weekend in a Chicago. He never said that I'm bi, but like, in my head, I'm like, you're kind of, in my head, Kenning, you're bi now. If you're acting go to a bi event every weekend, we have so many people. You might be bi.
00:36:24
Speaker
Yeah. yeah And they realize that, like, I can have a preference. I can explore my identity in a way. And I think that, like, that's the thing i want to talk to you about with Gen Z. I think yeah you do two things for people.
00:36:40
Speaker
They're willing to explore their sexual identity. I think if you give them a space that's physically safe or they know that they're not going to get harassed or touched unwontedly. And you give them a space that is culturally safe, where they know that they can express their sexuality, that they can express their bisexuality without being stigmatized and slut shamed for it.
00:37:03
Speaker
you give those two You give people those two permissions of safety, that feeling of safety. A lot of people are willing to like explore their sexual identity. That was a funny thing we realized with sluts was...
00:37:15
Speaker
While we got a little bit of the swinger community, we didn't get like a whole bunch of it because they were like, hey, I'm coming to these dance parties, but there's no place to fuck. Like, what are we doing here? yeah We got like a lot of couples who just like stumbled on or boosted ads or like found our Instagram page.
00:37:32
Speaker
And they were like, well, we've been having conversations about opening up a relationship, but we're too scared to go to a sex club. We're too scared like meet up with a couple on field. And that seems like a lot. But then they came to the Sluts Dance party and they were like, oh my God, I can do this. I have permission to do this. And there's other people out here doing this.
00:37:52
Speaker
And there's a lot of people who are not the age range you would think of of like a conventional singleer swinger slub as people in their mid 20s to like early thirty s yeah like They come here and they're like, okay, I'm so i'm coming here for the rave aspect.
00:38:09
Speaker
But since sexuality is expressed, I'm allowed to be sexual.
Challenges and Growth in Non-Monogamy
00:38:13
Speaker
And then we started hosting like mansion play parties and we started hosting play parties in our apartment that were more open to the public.
00:38:19
Speaker
And a lot of these couples started coming where this was their first play party. And because we had that permission to be bisexual, there wasn't strict... gender norms where you have to come and everybody hears a swamps.
00:38:31
Speaker
The idea is that like you can play with whoever you want to play. We started watching these couples explore their sexuality in a way that I think that Not to like pat ourselves on a back, but in a way that I don't think they would be able to in any other space that I know of right Right. It's like you really do need to create that safe space, both within the space to feel safe and not be creepy or have you know make sure everything is consensual, but also like safety to explore this and have it not...
00:39:00
Speaker
change everything about who you are or what you want or like people are like well i i want to be with my partner or marry a woman and it's like yeah you can explore and play and have fun with your sexuality and still have those things that you've always wanted like it doesn't have to necessarily change it and if it if it opens up new avenues why not go, you know, go with that. I think it's also, i love what you're creating in that there's the play party aspect. And then there's also the rave dance party. It's like, yeah, a lot of swingers events I've been to are older. Like I'm the youngest person there and I'm already older than you two. And, and, and I, I always wonder like why that is.
00:39:45
Speaker
And also a lot of play parties I've been to, you don't always have sex. You just are in a sexy environment. And then sometimes I feel like, oh, well, I should have played with someone or I'm sad that that didn't happen.
00:39:59
Speaker
But the more I've gone to, the more I've been like, no, this is going to be a sexy, fun night. i don't have to have sex with someone. If I do, great. If I don't, it'll be a fun night anyway.
00:40:10
Speaker
And when I go in with that mindset, it's always fun no matter what. And I love that sort of these rave parties, take sex off the table. So there's like no pressure, but it's still a sexy environment and it's still sex positive and it's still kinky or you can wear things you couldn't wear to some clubs. Like I like that it, that you're creating that.
00:40:34
Speaker
I think, do you, let me ask you this, Natalie, like, or, or whoever, do you, What do you see from Gen Z that's different from other generations? Like, are they particularly attracted to that aspect of it? Or what, why are they into this?
00:40:48
Speaker
Or you? You know, I feel like why so many spaces tend to attract ah older couples is simply that Those people have kind of been doing this for decades, or at least talking about it, and they have this comfortability to be able to just, like, go to a sex club and do whatever.
00:41:09
Speaker
and not have any inhibitions about that um and i feel like the reason why even when we were doing the play parties in our apartment why we resonated so much more but younger people isn't just because we are young but it's because of this like no pressure environment like even our play parties was very much like oh you don't know if you're bi yet You can find out, but like, you don't have to put a label on it.
00:41:38
Speaker
You don't know if you want to play tonight. No worries. We're going to be chatting in the kitchen like all night. Come by. Like, you know, you guys are still figuring out, are you open? Polly, what? Like, no worries. No one's going to pressure you to do something that you're not ready for.
00:41:53
Speaker
And we kind of became these people where, you know, people would come back. month after month and just slowly open up and discover like, oh my God, I'm poly, I'm demisexual, I'm bi, i like group play, I like kink. Like, you know, it's been so cool to see all of our friends kind of discover so much. And I think that's what...
00:42:16
Speaker
sluts party really has too is it's like you know we don't have to go into this space and be like exactly sure of everything we don't want to do and what all of our identities are because yeah most people who are in their 20s like we're still figuring it out like yeah i didn't figure out i was demisexual and polyamorous until like a year and a half ago and i'm sure i will continue to have more and more revelations and everything um So yeah, I feel like so many younger couples are scared away from it because they don't have that like welcoming and safe environment.
00:42:54
Speaker
And yeah, you know, again, if you've been dating someone for like 20 years, I think it's a lot easier to be like, I want to fuck other people. Like we've done everything. We've had kids, whatever. like Let's just get to it Yeah. Versus like, you know, like that was me when I first started dating John. I was like, I really like this guy and I love him a lot, but I'm like, he could potentially think I'm like fucking insane for being like, I want to fuck another man.
00:43:22
Speaker
So, yeah funny enough, Justin Lee Miller, who wrote the um Tell Me What You Want, The Psychology of Sexual Fantasies, I was listening to his podcast, and he was talking about why is people around like middle age who open their relationships are more likely to have a threesome.
00:43:41
Speaker
And kind of not exactly what you're saying, they're more likely to say, fuck it. They have a sense of identity that they already know who they are. They're comfortable in the relationship. It's easier to have these types of conversations.
00:43:53
Speaker
Whereas like people in their 20s and like even 30s are still coming in into like who I am and like my actions still have social consequences where like I still care about what my friends or family say to me if I tell them i like I have an open relationship where somebody in like their 50s, they may still care, but like that weight of someone else in society redefining who you are is lessened.
Gen Z and Attraction to Fluid Spaces
00:44:20
Speaker
um I also think that like there's this reality where so swinger clubs and older clubs market to like older generations because like there's that's where the money is like we're being honest like economically i don't know if like a lot of people in their twenty s can like drop 120 130 to go out for a night at a play party versus like a slutz dance party we're charging like 15 20 bucks it's not a play party yeah but it's still like a very like sexual space where like you can to come to like our event you can explore your sexuality you can still make out with different genders you can wear revealing clothes you can express yourself it's affordable we market we say gen z we want you we say bisexuals we want you natalie actually put a on this like amazing created this amazing instagram post
00:45:12
Speaker
that like I would say went almost viral. It was um Uncle Sam saying with like but the bi flag instead of USA flag. And he goes, bisexuals, we want you.
00:45:23
Speaker
And he's like pointing. And like people started sharing that. And it got 14,000 views or something like that. And I think that Gen Z and bisexuals saying that, like, hey, this community wants us to come in and they're marketing towards us makes them come there.
00:45:38
Speaker
And I think the last thing is that we don't discriminate between couples and singles, which I know that, like, is a big thing in a lot of swinger spaces. yeah Since we're watching Gen Z, they're getting married at older ages. They're also, like, more likely to be single.
00:45:54
Speaker
This allows single people to come in and like find other sex-positive people in the space. We have these friends. um Let's call them a and B. That's actually the first initials of both their first names.
00:46:07
Speaker
ah okay A and B both discovered Sluts Party in June and July. And they both came single. a is non-binary. B is a pansexual woman.
00:46:17
Speaker
And they found each other through Slot's party. And before they were, like, very timid. They were like, I don't know if this is for me. I don't know like... non-monogamy is something I'm interested in.
00:46:30
Speaker
And then, like, they started interacting in space. They found other like-minded people. And now they're, like, fucking, like, rabbits. They're always, like, having an orgy or they're, like, leaving Sluts Party early with, like, another couple to, like, go hook up with them.
00:46:43
Speaker
And it's, like, yeah really fun because, like... Like Natalie was saying, she was scared to bring non-monogamy up to me. But when you meet at a sluts party event, that fear is kind of taking away. That anxiety is gone because you're like, hey, I'm with like-minded people.
00:46:59
Speaker
I know this person is least comfortable coming to a sex positive rave. So they're probably open to the idea of non-monogamy. Yeah, I have a question on that, but on the on the fact that you're getting so much traction with like a buy post going viral and that you're getting so many people coming to the parties. I mean, yeah you sit there's hundreds of people at each party. Like that's so impressive. And i'd just to throw this out there to anyone considering hosting buy specific or buy tailored events around the country, there's an audience for it.
Advice for Newcomers to Sex-Positive Spaces
00:47:33
Speaker
Take their lead and you can find it. you'll have people showing up.
00:47:46
Speaker
I was just going to say, like i I remember when I started going to play parties and other like sex positive kind of dance spaces, like I was like a deer in headlights. like It takes a little bit of getting used to And the more you go and the less expectations and the less pressure you have and the safer you feel and the more you're with a like-minded community, like each of those things starts to add up and build till you get to a place where you're just like comfortable.
00:48:15
Speaker
and And ironically, when you don't, when you aren't trying to fuck, that's when you often fuck the most. And so I love that story of of them sort of transitioning to that.
00:48:27
Speaker
what What would you say to people who are listening to this and they're like intrigued and interested, but scared to actually go or worried about like, how do you participate or what what am I going to do when I get there?
00:48:40
Speaker
ah How do you encourage the the timid? I would say, so one of the things we do that's really helpful is we have a wristband system. For green, I'm open to being approached. Red, I don't want to be approached.
00:48:55
Speaker
And then yellow is somewhere in the middle. So that makes it super easy. You can change it any time in the night if you're super, you know, don't want to get approached. Like, I have a friend who is in a monogamous relationship, and she's my biggest fan, so she just has her red wristband, and we dance, and we have fun. But, you know you can also signify, like, yeah, I am open to making friends.
00:49:18
Speaker
And... you know it just kind of It feels like sluts is a little bit of all these people where we were just kind of like misfits and we didn't quite fit into every single space.
00:49:32
Speaker
And a lot of the spaces that are like typically catered to just... You know, the white gay cis man. um So i think with that being said, especially so many of us being non monogamous to like, it just, we have a particular type of audience where people aren't like an antipical club.
00:49:54
Speaker
they're actually genuinely trying to meet people and make friends because for so many people it's like you know these our audience aren't these people we're like we get some ravers but it's typically more people where this is like the one time a month they go out and they're really looking to meet like-minded people maybe see if they can find like a partner or play partner so there really is this very welcoming atmosphere of like If you approach someone, if you say, hi, i like your outfit, it's received really well.
00:50:25
Speaker
Totally not like the street club scene where you're like supposed to talk to other people. Yeah, that's usually my way in is I'll like say like most people I'm interested in have something that ah like visually that yeah I'm interested in and I'll comment on that thing. And that's often like a nice icebreaker.
00:50:45
Speaker
Yeah, go ahead, John. I guess like what I'll add to it too is that more generally if you're not in Chicago or not like promoting Sluts Party, if you're like, how do I get into this? One, admittedly, if you're not in a big city, it is hard.
00:50:58
Speaker
um Coming from Milwaukee, which is like a medium-sized city, we had to like always travel to have like really good experiences. There is like a really good club in Milwaukee. It was just, it geared a lot older.
00:51:10
Speaker
than us uh but what i will say is that one if you're at a big city there's a dating app called field f-e-e-l-d that's great that's how we got our start i also would say that it's a lot easier and a lot more low pressure to go to a club or go to a big sex party than it is to go to a small sex party or a date and like how i explain this to people is that you go on a date with another couple or another person and like If that person has an expectation to play, there may be a pressure that like, well, I went out, I met this person, i can have to take them home. Or if you go to a small play party where there's eight people and seven of them are playing, you're like, okay, I guess I'll play too. Or like, I'm just going awkwardly sit here.
00:51:55
Speaker
Versus if you go to a club that seems intimidating because there's 300, 400 people, There's always going to be countless people that you can just chit chat with. There's always going to 100 people, 150 who aren't playing.
00:52:09
Speaker
who you can just talk to and pick their brain and join the community. And then if the couple years who you're talking to is like, hey, we want to go play, they can go meet another couple who wants to go play. Or if you're single, the person you're interacting with, if they want to go play, they can go meet other people who want to go play.
00:52:25
Speaker
And you can go meet other people who are just chilling. Because like we've been to massive swinger parties. We went to the New Year's Eve party in Colette. We've been to the both the parties in Miami, Trapeze and Miami Velvet. We've been to Atlanta's Collect.
00:52:41
Speaker
We've been to Houston. ah Texas has a crazy amount of sex love. So it's just like seven in Houston. And like, there's always people hanging out who are just up for a chit chat. And because it is a sex party, people are more receptive of meeting new people versus like at a different club where the expectation is like, well I'm just partying with the
The Name 'Sluts Party' and Its Appeal
00:53:02
Speaker
people I came with.
00:53:02
Speaker
Yeah, ah that's really interesting. That makes sense. I ah totally agree that like sometimes the smaller parties, there is more pressure and a bigger scene creates some amount of anonymity. like You don't have to...
00:53:18
Speaker
be seen or do anything. You can just kind of wander and watch like watch and meet a few people here and there, sit at the bar, sit on the couch and just like chill with someone. Sometimes people are even like playing video games at a big party I've been to. It's like there's a lot of variety and you can just sort of be your find who you are in that space and be yourself and there's no pressure. um why Why call it sluts? Because you mentioned earlier about like, you know, for a ah it's a space that's free of slut shaming. So I assume it's like reclaiming that word. Like, why why how did you choose that name and why?
00:53:56
Speaker
So that was me. I came up the name Sluts. So I went to school for philosophy as a background and like everything has to have a deeper meaning. So it was supposed to mean sexually liberated, united together, Sluts.
00:54:09
Speaker
It never stuck. No one knows that. We had one reel where we talked about it and it never picked up. So Sluts just worked.
00:54:20
Speaker
Um... Could be the title of this podcast episode. That could work. Please do. Sexually liberated, united together. I like it. Something. And me from a marketing background, I liked that it was like something like eye-catching and in your face. Like it always catches people's attention. Just like, oh, sluts.
00:54:38
Speaker
Okay. And it's a good litmus test too, because if I tell you, yeah, I hosted an event called Sluts Party and you're like, huh, cool. Yeah. Even if you're not, like, the most sex-positive person versus, like, you say it to some people and it's like, oh my god.
00:54:53
Speaker
You can gauge their interest in the party just from how they react to the name. And it has an, the S is a dollar sign. Is it still that? why why Why dollar sign? Is that like a Gen Z thing?
00:55:05
Speaker
Censorship, honestly. Yeah, it originally started for like, you know, Instagram censorship and that sort of thing. And smart yeah, we've just kind of kept it going. And now it's like a fun little brand item.
00:55:17
Speaker
The one thing I'll give Natalie is that originally, because I have a lot of religious trauma, I wanted the party to be Sinner Sanctuary. And that was like, people are going to get burnt out of like the religious theme really fast. like It's cool for one or two parties, but if every party is Sinner Sanctuary, people are going to be like, okay, I need something new.
00:55:38
Speaker
Versus that idea was, if we use sluts, that gives us a lot more versatility.
Growth Amidst Political and Social Challenges
00:55:43
Speaker
I'm sorry, Natalie and Bree. Bree's the other founding member who's not here with us. ah Natalie and Bree came out with the idea of sluts and they were like, it gives us a lot more versatility where we can have different things throughout the month and we can have ace center sanctuary party every year, but like the party itself is not center sanctuary.
00:56:03
Speaker
Yeah, cool, cool.
00:56:12
Speaker
Last question. We'll wrap it up and then I want you to stick around for some Patreon bonus material, but what's the future of Sluts Party? Like, where do you guys want to take this?
00:56:23
Speaker
What's, what do you have coming up on the horizon? Like, what's your, what's your mission for the future with this? So like right now, um we were scared that we were going to see like a drop in participation after this new regime took office in January.
00:56:39
Speaker
i don't know how political I can get on your podcast, but. you you can You can mention him. Gotcha. So like we thought watching this homophobic, transphobic person take office that we were going to see a drop off of participation.
00:56:54
Speaker
and Nat put together basically this post, this carousel saying that like, hey guys, as long as we can, Sluts is going to be here. And like now it's more important than ever to form community and be around other queer people, be around other bi people.
00:57:10
Speaker
and like feel seen validated in space while they're trying to use the federal government to erase the existence of trans people. Being a place where being trans is celebrated, being a place where being sex positive is celebrated, being a sex worker is celebrated is so essential.
00:57:28
Speaker
And that post also just like took off. Everybody was resharing it. Random people who we didn't even know, who I think didn't know Sluts Party reshared it. And like Sluts Party has only been growing since.
00:57:40
Speaker
ah the Trump election in November. So right now, we don't know where... cool Right now, we want the roots to always be Chicago, but we would love to one day take it to like a New York or... You guys have so much stuff in New York, you probably don't need to party.
00:57:56
Speaker
maybe Come to Los Angeles. We have a lot here, too. We have a lot in Los Angeles, too, but we could always use more. Yeah, like LA or like Miami and like even... If it's safe, maybe like more Republican ah states where there's these very queer cities like Atlanta, New Orleans, Charlotte, where there's high populations of queer people who don't have a lot of spaces where they can be queer and sex positive.
00:58:27
Speaker
One day we we would love to be able to take it there. But like right now, of course, building is solidifying this community in Chicago and and the Midwest.
Future Aspirations for Sluts Party
00:58:35
Speaker
We get people who drive in from like Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Detroit, Kentucky, St. Louis, and all the cities in between. So it's really like a Midwest cultural moment that's really cool because Midwest is not known for sex positivity like the coast is.
00:58:52
Speaker
Coast are. Well, that it makes sense. And like, it it is hard if you don't live in a city like, and and ah obviously to put on parties like these, you have to go to where the people are. Like if you put it on in the middle of of whatever, in the middle of the country, you may not get enough to make it worth it.
00:59:09
Speaker
But I'm working, you know, I'm a coach now for bi men and I'm working with a lot of people all over the country and many are not in a big city. And this is the biggest struggle for them is like finding community and finding like friends fun things to do to explore their sexuality in a so like exactly. This is what they're looking for, but it's nowhere around where they live. And so for the moment I'm like, well, maybe it's worth going to a city to visit, to explore this stuff once in a while.
00:59:41
Speaker
But the more we, the more you guys expand, the better, that would be great too. And that was, you just said, Oh, and just like final thought, what you just said mirrored why me and Natalie moved to Chicago.
Personal Reflections on Bisexuality and Masculinity
00:59:53
Speaker
We loved Milwaukee, but we wanted a space where there was a lot of queer people. And especially for me, queer Black men, because there's not a lot of visible queer Black men in Milwaukee.
01:00:05
Speaker
So being validated in that, in my masculinity, in my Blackness, and my queerness, and my bisexuality all at the same time was like really essential. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ah And so last question I've promised I said last, but this is Natalie, any final thoughts? And also, if not, I just want to ask you since it came up earlier and, and we love to validate by men on this podcast, that's the whole goal.
01:00:31
Speaker
What, what do you like about by men ah like, or by people in general? Like I just liked your perspective on that. Yeah, um you know, I'd love to hit on bi men in particular, too, because that's something that I don't want, like, it's one of those thought processes where, like, I just can't wrap my hat head around, especially women and bi women who are hateful towards bi men and homophobic and biphobic.
01:01:01
Speaker
um I think something like there's so many good traits of bi men. Like I think one thing I've noticed is they tend to, because they've unpacked so much with their bisexuality, be very comfortable their masculinity, not have a lot of toxically masculine traits.
01:01:17
Speaker
um Like just being able to be in queer spaces, be in more hetero spaces too together. um I've really loved getting to explore group play with john few as well as a bi man um and yeah just overall like we're saying the open-mindedness with five people is just a really cool treat cool i love it thank you for answering that one i think our audience will like to hear that uh any any final thought from you john on on that or why you like bi women or anything oh yeah like i enjoy like
01:01:54
Speaker
bi and like or femmes in general or weird just because and by men like and by men i shouldn't even gender it yeah i enjoy people who are willing to like help deconstruct gender norms and like rigid ideas of like well this is how we have to behave because we were happy to be born with like a penis or a vagina and the idea that like we are allowed to express our sexuality and our gender expression across the fluidity ah Not to go on another rant, but like, there's not enough conversations about how performing masculinity is hard.
01:02:31
Speaker
It is a constant thing, especially like in hetero circles. It is a constant thing. You have to choose the right alcohol or else that threatens your masculinity. You have to wear the right clothes or that threatens your masculinity.
01:02:44
Speaker
You can't have certain colors in your outfit or that threatens your masculinity. you're constantly working to like uphold these unrealistic standards of like what it means to be a man that you're always on the fell short of.
01:02:57
Speaker
And I think that being in like queer spaces and like dating queer films for me personally have allowed me to say that like, they've allowed me to say like, hey, you don't have the performance this hyper-masculinity all the time, especially like as a Black man hyper-masculinity put on me so much.
01:03:16
Speaker
Queer femmes say that like, hey, you don't always have to perform this hyper-masculinity all the time. It's okay to just be John. And dating straight femmes and straight women throughout college a lot of them have a really bad habit of upholding patriarchal gender norms in a way that they don't admit.
01:03:37
Speaker
And like the way that i view it is like straight men uphold the patriarchy, but also like a lot of times straight women uphold the patriarchy and gender norms right underneath them. and they have these expectations of what they want out of their mass partner. And they don't want to give you the same emotional care that like, but they don't believe that you're saying and you're entitled to the same emotional care that like queer femmes and queer people in general do because they allow you to strip off that hyper-masculinity and just be a human.
Conclusion and Podcast Support Information
01:04:03
Speaker
Sorry, I tried not to go away. Well, well well i have to leave it there because we're out of time. But i we might continue that in a moment. So so if you're listening to this, the the free version, I'm going to stick around with with John and Natalie on Patreon. you can You can subscribe there and listen to a little bit more. i would like to continue on that.
01:04:26
Speaker
And I'm also going to ask them about some of the craziest, kinkiest or most fun parties that they've thrown or things they've seen at those parties. So come over to Patreon to hear that. But ah for those of you ending with us now, thank you um for listening. And thank you guys, John and Natalie, for being here and for sharing all this stuff about Sluts Party. um where Last thing, where can people find more information on the party if they're interested?
01:05:00
Speaker
And then you can also hear us talk more about sex and sex positivity on our podcast, the Funless Sex Podcast. We're on both TikTok and Instagram. TikTok is fwspodcast. And then Instagram is the Funless Sex Podcast, all lowercase.
01:05:20
Speaker
Cool. Awesome. All of that will be in the show notes. Check it out.
01:05:32
Speaker
Thanks for having us. Bye. Bye. thanks for listening to this episode as you just heard there's more on patreon we talked more about the relationship between masculinity and bisexuality as well as femininity and sexuality we talked about fluidity and types of relationships and how those lines can be blurred and also I asked about the wildest and craziest things they have seen at play parties.
01:05:56
Speaker
So there's about 20 minutes of bonus material on patreon.com slash Robert Brooks Cohen. Thanks for your support there. And thanks again for listening to two by guys.
01:06:10
Speaker
Two Bye Guys by One Bye Guy is produced and edited by me, Robert Brooks Cohen, and it was created by me and Alex Boyd. Our new logo art is by Caitlin Weinman. Our music is by Ross Mincer. To help support this podcast, visit patreon.com slash robertbrookscohen. You'll get full video episodes, early access, and bonus content. Visit robertbrookscohen.com to learn more about my coaching, my book, and my stand-up comedy. And thanks for listening to Two Bye Guys by One Bye Guy.
01:06:37
Speaker
Oh