Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the island where the nights are long. The miracles are suspicious. And the blood is definitely not wine. We're your hosts, Laura and Noah.
Speaker: This is Fans of Flanagan. We know it's late. But it's time for Mass. Midnight Mass. Midnight Mass.
Speaker: Welcome back, everybody. It's good to see you this week. We are going to be covering episode two. ah It's called Psalms, but with me, I have... Laura,
Speaker: just me. just Just Laura. It's just Laura. Just me. And me, Noah, of course. i I feel weird because I know our intro has our names too, so I guess we're saying it twice.
Speaker: That's okay. care Who cares? Before we jump into today's episode, Laura... What watching? There's been a show that I've actually been watching since it first released or launched.
Speaker: And the first season came out 2023. And the second season has been releasing an episode at a time. And it looks like there's 12 of them. And episode 10 just came out either today or yesterday. think it came out yesterday.
Speaker: Anyway, it's called, and I can't remember if I've talked about this before, but it's called Poker Face. And it's on yeah Peacock. Okay. And it's surprisingly better than I thought it was going to be. i The premise is that the main character, Charlie, can tell when people are lying.
Speaker: And so at the very beginning of the show, she's working in a casino and she... plays poker for a living you know so um and then it not devolves but it morphs into murder solving show yeah And so it's almost like an anthology style. And I don't hate it because each episode is its own story with this running thing of she's running away from the mob.
Speaker: think it's Las Vegas where she was originally. um So it has like her continuing story through the first season and then it changes in the second. But i I like it. I don't like her.
Speaker: I'm going to critique her a little bit. The main character is played by Natasha Lyonne or lion. She's got big frizzy, beautiful red hair and some of her care. She was the one that did Russian doll. If you haven't seen Russian doll, that's another really good one that I really, really, really enjoyed. I've watched it a few times actually, but in this show she uses this voice
Speaker: and I'm so sorry. I hate it.
Speaker: it's cheap i don't want to i don't want to mimic it, but look up some clips on your own okay of her voice in the second season, at least, because I can't remember if she uses the same voice from the very beginning or if it's just kind of morphed into that.
Speaker: um That's my only critique. The rest of it, it's great. It's funny. It's smart. um It's unexpected. like Some of the things that happen are are twists and turns and um And the second season actually has had some big names in it. I think episode nine had Awkwafina in it. And the one girl with the curly hair from Arrested Development. I'm so sorry. I can't remember her name.
Speaker: But yeah, that's what I've been watching. Nice. Um, I haven't been watching too much. Um, there was, there's this Netflix, I guess you could call it like a documentary series.
Speaker: Um, it's the first one was called quarterback. The second one, second season, I guess you call it's called receiver and it follows the lives of three NFL quarterbacks and then three, I think like four or five NFL receivers.
Speaker: Um, and just kind of their daily lives, what they go through and the NFL, like, um, like playing like physically and like mentally how they prepare for all the games, what kind of goes into their day to day and weekly kind of grinds. And it, it ah provided an interesting kind of insight into the life of, uh, these insanely rich, like athletes, um,
Speaker: ah it was it's It was fun and it's holding me over until football season actually starts because right now um I need it. I need it in my face.
Speaker: I did not know you were a football guy. I... ive I grew up on college football. My dad, that's like, it was a really big bonding thing between me and my dad was watching college football and somehow that morphed into like NFL over the years. Cause growing up, I never really liked the NFL or really watched it.
Speaker: And now I just, I'm a big NFL fan and I watch all the games and the fun sports channels on YouTube and that kind of thing. So yeah, right now I'm just dying for football season to start up again.
Speaker: You need your fix. need my fix. I need, I need men running into each other. i need to see it.
Speaker: We watched all three of the 28 series. So the 28 days later, weeks later, and we got to see years later in theaters.
Speaker: Now, people have been kind of split on 28 years later. How did you find it? Pro? Against? like Did you like how they did it?
Speaker: It's probably... the one I like the most out of the three of them, but I don't think I'm a fan of the series.
Speaker: If that makes sense. Like I, I enjoy the last one the most, but I'm not in a hurry to go back and watch them again. Now I today went to the IMDb parents guide page as I do.
Speaker: And I read through all of the warnings, you know, the violence, gore. um So that's one that I think I'm going to sit out.
Speaker: But I will say the trailer was fantastic. That's one of the best movie trailers I think I've ever seen. Ever. It's all really good. But it's wildly misleading.
Speaker: Yeah. yeah It makes the movie feel like it's going to be a lot bigger than what it is than it actually is. yes it's It's misleading. But it is a good trailer.
Speaker: um but I think you'd be wise to skip it. There is...
Speaker: there's already people talking about a certain, um, zombie and it's, um, he's well endowed. Yeah. Appendage. So you see multiple, to but another reason that I'm, at that I, yeah, I saw that listed multiple.
Speaker: So yeah I don't need, I don't, I don't need that in my brain. So yeah. Yep. And then a childbirth. Yep.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. Yep. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. But other than that, you know. Other than that. Other than that, um Ralph Fiennes was, as usual, just gray great to see.
Speaker: Rafe? Ralph? id rae I don't know how to say it. Rafe. Rafe. Everybody else in his circle says Rafe. So okay I guess that's what's proper.
Speaker: he's a delight and he's easily worked his way into one of my favorite actors i think of all time yeah he's he's really good yeah i really enjoy him um and i i think maybe it speaks to his talent that i mean yeah he's voldemort but i i don't feel like
Speaker: everyone's like, Oh, that's the guy who plays Voldemort. You know, it's like, Oh, he's been in James Bond. Oh, he's done this. Oh, he's done that. I don't know. I couldn't be, could be not reading everyone. Right. But that's why I feel like he is anyway.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't think there's any wrong way to know. an actor, you know, ah like Sean Astin, for example, you know, where you remember him from the most is going to be wildly different from where I remember him the most.
Speaker: You know, like when I think of Sean Astin, I think of Rudy, I think of the Goonies and then later, you know, with, with Lord of the Rings and and then Stranger Things. So, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. So I don't think there's any, I don't think there's any wrong answer in where you like have a frame of reference for an actor because Ralph Fiennes as Voldemort killed it.
Speaker: Like he played that so straight. Yeah. I can't imagine, I can't imagine like anybody else doing the movie Voldemort. I know the series is coming out, so we got to keep an open mind on these new cast members.
Speaker: I'm really trying. I really, I'm, Well, I heard, as an aside, I heard they are recasting Snape.
Speaker: They are recasting him? That's Snape. From one of the announced? Uh-huh.
Speaker: It's crazy. um i'm happy with like who they're casting for the kids and everyone else and even even with him being cast as snape i was like well that's gonna be awkward just because of the connotations if you know if you don't go read up on it come to your own conclusions um
Speaker: I honestly, that serious, honestly, it's not that serious. I know, I know there was a lot of, I'm just going to straight up call it cyber bullying and just, and that makes me sad that that caused that actor to be recasted because who it could say what he would have done, you know?
Speaker: Right. I'm sure his performance would have been amazing. I don't think that would have been in question. I don't think that was in question at all.
Speaker: Yeah. I think it just wasn't the right choice for that role because of everything that happens to that character. It's going to twist what everything means in the story.
Speaker: um So we'll leave it at that. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: i ah last thing I'll say about the subject of Harry Potter recasting I the biggest huh was John Lithgow as Double Door like I just can't see that I can't see it I don't like it that's gonna be a wait and see I yeah I've I've seen him in serious roles um I think he's gonna be good I'm actually okay with that um I just can't get past his voice for some reason. he's see what he's
Speaker: See what other things he's been in. The range of his voice. You'll be fine. He'll be fine. yeah It's not that serious. It's not. You're right. It's not. oh Oh, the kid that plays Draco in the movies.
Speaker: Tom Feldman. Yes. He's playing Draco in The Cursed Child on Broadway now. Yeah. I want to like go into debt to go to New York and watch it on Broadway like tomorrow. Hey, if you guys want to pay for our plane ticket and our Broadway tickets, go right ahead, please.
Speaker: Just DM me on our Instagram page for my Venmo and like, let's just crowdfund my, my Harry Potter curse child, New York experience.
Speaker: I'd love to. it Honestly, it would be great. It'd be so, it would be so fun. Well, I'll just go to Florida and then we'll just drive up and it'll be fine. yeah That's fine. We'll just go. It'll work. Yeah. yeah What are jobs?
Speaker: They're nothing. don't mean anything. yeah no Nothing's real. The points are fake. you know Exactly. There are no rules.
Speaker: Are you ready to dive in? Yeah. Episode two. Book two. Book two. Book two. Psalms. it's just It's just Psalms in general, which as we learn in the episode, if you haven't learned already, they are songs. Praise to God, from my understanding.
Speaker: um Do you have any notable notables before we dive in to further analysis? Before we dive in? I don't know. Let's do... ah
Speaker: Let's do, sorry, I had Taco Bell. um
Speaker: Which end did it come out of?
Speaker: I was burping, I'm sorry. I promise.
Speaker: on okay let's do our recap first okay I didn't have anything to eat and I worked until 8 30 and I had had no food I was hungry you're gonna find no judgment here Taco Bell is great all right even though it's it's just it's just later than I usually eat so yeah yeah so what happened in this episode I
Speaker: You had one job. You're right. We're still learning. In this section, we're going to be going over the story arc for the episode itself. Even though series can kind of go use a story arc over the entire season, it can also...
Speaker: No. Yeah. I'm assuming that's what you're going say it can happen in the episode itself as well. Yeah. so I was going to ask if we're doing like a general recap plus the story arc.
Speaker: I've just figured we were going to do it all in the same thing. Cause it's kind of the awesome kind of covering the same stuff, you know? Okay. Since we go over what happened in the story arc. So I thought it was killing two birds with one stone.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: First, we'll go over the exposition, which it sets the status quo and it's starting to shift the setting. So where are we in this episode? Where are we starting?
Speaker: Life on Crockett Island is still bleak. The population is has been said to be dwindling a little bit. People keep leaving and leaving, especially after this incident that we hear of in this settlement that Bev Keen urged people to take.
Speaker: And not to mention a beach full of dead cats that need to be cleaned up, which is a reminder of previous incidents that kind of hurt the town. They mentioned...
Speaker: ah like I think a pot of dolphins end ah ending up dead on the beach. um Another group of animals, think it was like birds or starlings, I think it was. Starlings.
Speaker: Yeah. um Were found dead on the beach as well. And not to mention, they hint at it a little bit, the incident. There was an oil spill. And from what I can tell, it killed a lot of fish. And it left the the town pretty dry in terms of resources and wealth because that's their livelihoods. They're, they're fishermen.
Speaker: Um, it's a fishing Island, a fishing town. Um, Riley has to go to the mainland for AA. He's only there to get his pass stamped.
Speaker: He's only there because it was court mandated. And one of the first church meetings we see in this episode, there's almost nobody there. It's, um, Oh, what's her name?
Speaker: I'm forgetting the girl's name. Lisa. It's Lisa and Annie Flynn, so Riley's mom, are ah pretty much the only ones there. And then there's like an old lady sitting on the other side, but we don't know who who that is.
Speaker: In Rising Action, it's going to start setting up the conflict of the episode. So Father Paul becomes preaching begins preaching with more passion, invoking healing and renewal through biblical references, especially psalms.
Speaker: Tension builds around mysterious events, the mass death of cats in the storm and the unseen shadows flying over the island at night. Joe Colley's dog, Pike, is poisoned and unfortunately dies.
Speaker: Oh, huge trigger warning for that scene if you haven't watched this already. it's Sorry if you have. it's That was rough. It was rough really rough. I was like, oh, that's worse than I remember it being.
Speaker: It's very specific too, which is important. It symbolizes the escalating darkness between the island surface and there's tension between those included and those excluded. Those in the faith and those not in it.
Speaker: And I am really excited to dive more into that that theme specifically. Then we move into the climax, which is the pivotal moment where the main conflict reaches its peak.
Speaker: So Pike dies of what Joe thinks is poison. He thinks it is Bev Keen who did it. There's the confrontation between Sheriff and Bev, which is just so charged with energy. it is so good to watch these two actors.
Speaker: just suddenly like, Oh, it's so good. I'm sure you have a lot to say about that. Um, and I think the AA meeting between father Paul and Riley is also part of that climax because it's, it's the conflicting ideals about God.
Speaker: Riley's coming from is I think that a God that creates, or, um, no he says people use the excuse that god works in mysterious ways at as an excuse to basically not do anything to stand by and watch other people suffer and not help i think i have the exact quote some here um He says something along the lines of the only thing that lets people stand by watching all the suffering doing nothing is the idea that suffering is a gift from God is what he says with some things excluded from that.
Speaker: That's Riley's point of view. And then father Paul just sits there and listens, but then he comes back and says, um, that he can take awful works and turn it into something great. And it's very succinct. It's, he doesn't really go into it, but that's, that's the rebuttal against Riley's point. And that's the conflicting ideals that we have in this episode.
Speaker: And we have the falling action, which somewhat serves as a rising action as well, ah because it is a series. that It's giving us a little bit of a cliffhanger, some things to keep us intrigued.
Speaker: We see this weird figure in the night outside people's houses. We have Eren's pregnancy scare and the guy dying in the house, the broken down house.
Speaker: and finally, we have the resolution, which can be a false peace. And the resolution for this episode is the miracle occurring.
Speaker: Father Paul, I'm doing air quotes, but makes Liza, Liza, Liza? I'm going to say Liza. Liza. Liza.
Speaker: ah
Speaker: he doesn't make her, but he draws her basically out of the wheelchair by saying, come, come get the sacrament. Basically come get the the body of Christ. And that is the
Speaker: false sort of, um resolution to the conflict. It's saying, Hey, this is the answer that God can turn some suffering into something good.
Speaker: Miracles can happen. And,
Speaker: If you haven't watched ahead, then you're like, oh, that's gotta be the, it how can it be false? How, but what's going on here? How why is that not a miracle? Or why is it good or not good? Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Speaker: Right. And that's what happened in the episode with some things missing, but that sort of a general breakdown. So my notable notables, things that i think are important to point out, just little things because they are important to the story moving forward.
Speaker: um
Speaker: We learn in this episode that Aaron's mother was a drinker. Mm-hmm. um We learned that Dr. Sarah has off-island partner that is a lady. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And there was this moment that I loved because it wasn't subtle, but it was saying so much without saying anything. And it's when Joe Colley's dog Pike dies.
Speaker: And I can't remember who it was that said, I think it was Sarah, but she said, Hey, what if it was just a terrible accident?
Speaker: Right. And then he says an accident and then he stops and right in front of him is Lisa.
Speaker: Oh, that's good. with Whom he had. the shooting accident. So he's making a big accusation that somebody did this to his dog on purpose.
Speaker: And Sarah's like, hey, we don't know. What if it was an accident? Like you should know this feeling that something could be an accident. um And so it like freezes. Everybody freezes. He looks up. He's looking directly at her. He's realizing what he's saying, what he's accusing.
Speaker: And everybody is like aware of what's not being said in that moment it was so good um i didn't even realize i didn't even see through it with that lens oh that's good just watch that scene again and just like live in it for a moment because it's oh it was just so perfect Yeah.
Speaker: It was so real. Like, I don't, I don't, I don't know how I do it. It's so good. Um, on the beach in the beginning, they had talked about Pruitt with his hat and coat. I don't know if that's really important, but I wrote it down. So then, um, the mention of Beverly's use of the oil sediment was really talked about the oil settlement money, how she, uh, encouraged people to use it for tithing.
Speaker: And it's later explained more in detail by Riley. Um, and also the rec center, is called Reverend Monsignor John Michael Pruitt with big letters Pruitt Recreation Center.
Speaker: i didn't even see that. Nice.
Speaker: And like the sign is like lit up and like fluorescent kind of backlit and it looks so out of place. It almost looks like it's like a CGI like ah post. Yeah.
Speaker: add in to the scene because that's how out of place it looks, but it's supposed to because of what they, ah what they accuse her of doing with the money and how she's like almost overcompensating to say, no, no, it's for the community. Look.
Speaker: Right. Um, I think that was it for things that I noticed. And then I have my foreshadow list. So, okay.
Speaker: Um, So some things to that were of note to me in the beginning on the beach, the mayor says that he wants the sheriff and kid and his kid to maybe come to mass one, uh, a time or two and not as a convert, he says, but to be part of the whole, to be part of the community. And that's very important.
Speaker: Right. Um, Father Paul, In the first mask that we see him, he's wearing the green chasuble, which, according holyarc.com,
Speaker: the green chasuble is a symbol of hope, perseverance, and continued listening.
Speaker: um But the other two times that we see him in a chauzebel during different Mass, it's purple.
Speaker: And purple, let's see if I can find it, is linked to penance, waiting, and mourning. It's particularly used during Advent and Lent.
Speaker: So, which makes sense because the second mass that we see is, I think the Lent, is it Ash Wednesday? It's the beginning of Lent. Yeah. Yeah. The beginning of Lent.
Speaker: um And again, at the, at the end when he does the miracle, um which
Speaker: spoilers, For anyone who's not seen past this episode,
Speaker: oh like maybe the next 10, 15, 20 seconds, I don't know. um That first mass, it's got to be when he first gave them the blood.
Speaker: It's pretty heavily implied that it, that he did. Because then after that is when his mom doesn't do classes anymore. The dad's fine with his back. And um obviously the music there's comes out.
Speaker: There's a correlation between how fast some of them are. seeming to recover or reverse ailments ah and how many times they go to mass.
Speaker: So we know that Annie, who's Riley's mom, goes every day that she can and so does Lisa, which is pretty evident in this episode. So their regenerations seem to be more advanced than maybe some others.
Speaker: Yeah. Possibly. But I don't know if we ever see Riley's dad smoke again. We definitely don't hear him coughing again. oh so I wonder if that's like ah taken into account too, like the correlation between how many times they they are taking mass or taking the.
Speaker: Yeah, that's true. How many times they go. And then I think he's, is he going every day? To minister to Sarah's mom. I think after the first time, I think that's what he does. After the first time, he goes every day or at least once a week because she starts, spoiler alert, she starts recovering pretty swiftly too. So I think she's like every day. Yeah.
Speaker: But we don't really see that this episode too much. Right. Right. Yeah. Anyway. But they give that, the the the first episode, they, you know, the altar boys were talking to each other and say, you know, fill the, I don't know what the word was for it, but where they keep the wine. Yeah. And then they look over and they're like, oh, it's already done.
Speaker: So that's the big like sign saying, yeah, it's the new story. Duff. Yeah. Okay. So you you think it was even earlier? do You think it was last episode?
Speaker: I think it's the very first scene of mass in the first episode. Oh, okay. I think Father Paul's been given it giving that to them since he came into town.
Speaker: Interesting. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. I just didn't, I didn't think, I didn't think that too much. I didn't think that far into it and I probably should have.
Speaker: Consider this is a deep dive epi episode, like a series. um
Speaker: I love the visual comparison between taking the body of Christ and the AA token. ah That was kind of fun. Oh, a good catch. Um,
Speaker: Father Paul seems very fond of Dr. Sarah Gunning's mom. I believe her name is Mildred. He seems very fond of her.
Speaker: So we'll have to keep that in mind. um
Speaker: Jump scare. I counted three jump scares. um four I counted two.
Speaker: I could see how some of them wouldn't be jump scares, but this first one was the dead girl appearing in the musical sting. Okay. Would you, can I don't, I think I'm going to contest this one because we know it's coming.
Speaker: I don't know if we jump scare implies that you're surprised by it, which is why you jump and it scares you. yeah It is startling. It is abrupt. It is scary. But at this point, I don't know if I would call that a jump scare just because we know what's what's happening.
Speaker: Okay. So I will get rid of that one. I agree. I'm putting them down just in case. ah I only did it cares you at this point because of the music sting. That's the only kind of reason why.
Speaker: Yeah. yeah it's It's really ah something. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: I don't think so. I think Riley's relationship with his parents kind of echoes a relationship that people can have with God.
Speaker: um does he doesn't want to upset them, right? Some people don't want to upset God. They go to church. They do what they're supposed to because they don't want to upset him. But Riley doesn't feel like he can go and talk to his parents about all that he's going through he can't because he talks to aaron about how his day is right and he feels like he can't talk to his parents about that he can't talk to his parents about all the stuff he talks to father paul about at the end
Speaker: Um, and I think it's a sort of a, it echoes a, how some people's relationship with God is, is they do all the stuff they're supposed to because they fear God in quotation marks and don't actually have that relationship with him.
Speaker: don't, I, I like that little, I don't know if it was intentional, but I liked that part in the episode. It's a good connection that you made. Thank you. um
Speaker: we see someone in a flowery dress give, ah give Pike a hot dog. And after that, you can kind of determine who was wearing that dress. And after from that point, yeah, before and after Pike wasn't okay.
Speaker: Um, it's so sad. It's so sad.
Speaker: The other, one of the other jump scares was, When Aaron is at her house and she sees a figure outside with glowing eyes and we see him run off screen.
Speaker: I don't know if you would count that. Put it down just in case. Okay. What I have, which maybe you have this one when, uh, Dr. Sarah's is going back upstairs after helping, Aaron. So Aaron is bleeding a little bit. She wakes up Dr. Sarah.
Speaker: um
Speaker: And then, you know, she says goodnight. Aaron leaves. Sarah's going up the stairs and her mother just starts screeching. Sarah, Sarah, that was a jump scare.
Speaker: That got me. I put that one down as well. Yep. And then the second one for me was at the, towards the end when Bull is going into like walking past the abandoned house and there's like, yeah, goosebumps exactly.
Speaker: And he hears something in there and it echoes back at him. The jump scare is when it, it rushes him.
Speaker: Yeah. Okay. I will. That's the first time I think we see the creature, not just glowing eyes, but we see a creature. We see something. We we don't see much.
Speaker: Well, you see his arm and you see a little bit of his face. That's true. um
Speaker: Which, by the way, was scary. That whole scene scary. that sectioned that whole scene yes
Speaker: It's really well done in terms of like horror because you see something. Yeah. Because you see something in the shadows and you see it moving. The setup with the echo, with the mimic, with the mimic was really, really, really scary.
Speaker: And then the conclusion of that scene with the creature rushing him. And we know that bull is gone. Yeah. He's not coming back. Yeah. Yeah. um in the final sort of notable notables is i wrote down that's some white people's stuff going to a house where a door opens up and you hear your voice echo back at you and you just walk in yeah why do you think what else what would you be what else you grew up on the island there's nothing scary there
Speaker: I don't care. It's dark. If I'm hearing my my voice coming out of a i wouldn't go broken down house, I'm leaving. um no No, no, I would. No. So my foreshadow,
Speaker: my foreshadow that I've noticed. So, um
Speaker: At the beginning, we know that there's no blood near the cats. They even say it out loud and the necks are all ripped up. That's a good foreshadow moment. child After mass, Lisa is walking with Father Paul and she's asking him, so where were you before? Where did you come from before here? And he doesn't give her a direct answer.
Speaker: He kind of walks around the question and gives her some sort of like, You know, it doesn't matter. It's where we're going. Yeah. yeah It's not as important as we i where I'm going. yeah ah huh So that's something to remember.
Speaker: Aaron walking in just as Bev is taking down a can of rat poison.
Speaker: And this is before the picnic, not right before the picnic, but it does precede the picnic. ah Dr. Sarah's mother, when Father Paul comes in to get administer the sacrament to her, ah Father Paul walks in and she looks at him in surprise and calls him John.
Speaker: John is the first name of Father Pruitt. hmm. And so Dr. Sarah brushes it off and goes, oh, she thinks your father Pruitt. She's paddled in the head.
Speaker: Right. um Annie, who's Riley's mother in this episode, we know we see that she no longer needs her glasses. um Ed, who's the dad, gets up from the church pew really easily.
Speaker: I don't know how they keep track of all these little details, but it's so cool. It's amazing. At the crock potluck picnic, Sarah is having a conversation with her partner or her potential partner. I can't tell if they're just like kind of meeting or if they're actually like full on dating now.
Speaker: But anyway, they're speaking together and father Paul is staring at Sarah the ah And Sarah mentions it's just how Father Pruitt used to stare at her like he knew this something about her back then even.
Speaker: And then we see Bev's skirt as she drops a hot dog for Pike, movie which we've already mentioned. Yep.
Speaker: Also, I guess something you could put in the foreshadowing part is the the jump scare when... um the doctor... oh I have one more.
Speaker: go ahead. um When Erin's at home and she's kind of going through photos, um there's noises noises coming from her roof and the spooky eyes out the window.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That was very creepy. Yes. Another thing is when...
Speaker: Dr. Gunning is like taking care of her mom when Sarah is taking care of her mom after she does the jump scare at the Sarah Sarah and calls her over.
Speaker: oh She's like I saw your father.
Speaker: i I think that's what she said. don't know she said father because she said something about about, oh, that was in the last episode, I thought. it was this one. She said, I your father outside.
Speaker: it was last episode too. was the last one? Yeah, because everybody was, yeah.
Speaker: Interesting. because But this one this She said something about his clothes. She said he was right at the window and she kept talking about his face, his terrible face or something like that.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. So I don't, I can't remember if in the scene she says father, I'll just, I'll just ah defer to you on that one. Cause I don't remember her saying father, but I know in the first episode she says, I saw your father outside and his coat and hat or something.
Speaker: Maybe I'm just inferring, putting that together.
Speaker: But yeah, that is a big foreshadow. Big foreshadow. Big, big foreshadow.
Speaker: It's funny how you forget things and in ah in a show that you you really enjoyed and and you he thought you had I had seen it twice before this I was like oh yeah I'm to remember everything that happens and it's like yeah does this happen because they're hinting at this and I think it does but I'm honestly not sure yeah well to be fair I watched it I watched it yesterday afternoon yeah some of my memories
Speaker: If you don't want to be spoiled, again, skip ahead for a little bit. But again, not having seen this in a while, i i think, correct me if I'm wrong, I think Father Pruitt or Monsignor Pruitt is Sarah's dad.
Speaker: The doctor's dad. Okay. I thought I was remembering that correctly. Yeah. I think that
Speaker: that provides a a really good theme, an intro to a theme of of the entire series about, um, imagine finding something that you think is salvation, joy, happiness, and you just want nothing but to share it with those you love the most.
Speaker: And
Speaker: he's being,
Speaker: true with with what he has found. he's he's He thinks he's being righteous in what he's doing. Right. And obviously we'll go more into that as we get more and more into the into the season. But I love how it's it's starting here.
Speaker: i think...
Speaker: With his intentions and why he thinks that way, I think we're going to be able to dive into that a lot with episode three. Okay. um
Speaker: Because we all live through our own, we all experience life through our own experiences, plus our own filters, plus our own understandings and psyche. So I think we will.
Speaker: We will talk about his point of reference, point of view, and his heart, and his state of mind yeah after we see what happens in episode three.
Speaker: yeah Book three, if we want to stay on theme. I love how it's starting now. It is. That's really what these first like couple episodes are about in the overall scheme of the the the season. It's about setting things up, right?
Speaker: Yeah. so Yeah. So with that, I'll ask you my first question. um With his miracles that are kind of subtly starting, notwithstanding the big one towards the end of the episode with Lisa, do you think there are any indications yet that there might be some moral compromise?
Speaker: Or do you think that his intentions really are pure? I think
Speaker: objectively, and think the show does a very good job of presenting him as someone who seems like he is genuine, that he really does care about people and he cares about his faith more importantly. And,
Speaker: what his faith has done to him. And so what he wants,
Speaker: he wants that for other people as well.
Speaker: And ah especially with his conversation with Riley at the, at the end, he's you Riley just went on this huge tirade about why he he doesn't say specifically he hates Christians or he hates God or religion, but that's what it feels like.
Speaker: And he's very bitter and angry. And ah honestly, Father Paul doesn't really say much to re to rebuttal him.
Speaker: He just says,
Speaker: That's what I know. That's what I know. And that that's what I know is to be true. And I just, he doesn't, he's not trying to be argumentative. He's not trying to prove he's right. He just says, Hey, this is what I know.
Speaker: This is what it is.
Speaker: So I think. In that way, the show is doing a good job of portraying him as someone who seems to be true, but with all the circumstances around him and everything that we have seen as an audience, like we saw how the big box that he had dragged in and we saw the, the weirdness that's starting to happen and all this happened when he first came on. So it's hard not to be suspicious of him right now at this point in the show.
Speaker: What about you? I haven't seen any indications yet.
Speaker: And I don't know if I think maybe I think there's like dichotomy within him because he has to know on some level that what he's doing isn't great, especially knowing what he knows.
Speaker: Right. Which we don't know yet. But I think he's ignoring it and pushing through it because of some sort of cognitive dissonance that he's put over himself because, as we find out in the next episode, what he likens his experience to.
Speaker: which has just kind of overshadowed him. And so he wants everybody to experience what he believes isn't an actual true miracle. So I don't know, maybe, so maybe some part of him knows, but I think he's choosing to ignore it.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Do you think,
Speaker: I think he's choosing to ignore it because of the, the greatness that is coming out of it the good, not greatness, but maybe goodness that he thinks is coming out of it.
Speaker: Or I don't know if my question makes sense. I just don't know how to answer it without touching on, on, on the next episode. So I think we'll have to kind of put a pin in that and really save those questions for next time. Okay. Um, next one, there were a few confrontations in this episode.
Speaker: We've got Bev versus Aaron.
Speaker: We've got, Joe Colley versus everybody.
Speaker: the We laugh, but it's it really is. We're not laughing because it was it was pretty traumatic.
Speaker: And then we've got Father Paul versus Riley. Who do you think had the best confrontations? Whew.
Speaker: What do you mean by the best? I don't know. Like, however you feel like I, I like father Paul versus Riley because they really both make very valid arguments.
Speaker: Yeah. Father Paul doesn't shrink from Riley's very strong statements. He counters them and he backs it up with life experience and wisdom.
Speaker: And it's not like they're trying to go at one another either. Riley in the beginning says, hate, listen, I don't want to go into into this because I don't want to offend you. Right.
Speaker: He's like, it's it'd be pretty hard to do that. Yeah. I liked that part. Yeah. So I, he like, ah you might probably won't be able to.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: i I really like the the conflict or confrontation between those two because of the dialogue and the writing and what is being said and how he just per perfectly, Mike Flanagan perfectly encapsulates how maybe a lot of agnostic or atheist people think about God and religion.
Speaker: And again, so how they think that religious people think. Exactly. right So i I love that. But I also love what it means with joe collie versus everybody else and i really i think that's the the the meat of this episode is inclusion versus exclusion community and faith but how how are all those intertwined so yeah
Speaker: Did you specifically say that your favorite competition was Father Paul and Riley? i don't know if I have a favorite.
Speaker: It was just, it was, I appreciated the depth of of their conversations and the the thoughtfulness that goes into the writing. And I really like that Father Paul didn't didn't shrink from Riley's arguments. Like he held his ground and and answered his concerns.
Speaker: Yeah. really thoughtful and he gave Riley space to share his his beliefs. um I appreciated the ah one between Aaron and Beverly.
Speaker: I like that Erin stood her ground while Beverly is being extremely passive aggressive and just underhandedly ah insulting her several times in these like seemingly innocent comments.
Speaker: um Yeah. yeah That actress, Samantha Sloyan, is just this perfect job of same thing saying saying the
Speaker: what's what's written, but in a way that is just so,
Speaker: so like backhanded, but at the same time, you can't openly come out and confront the person about it. You know, I don't know. She just says. Right. Otherwise you get labeled as like the crazy person. Like, what are you talking about? I'm not saying anything of the kind.
Speaker: She just delivers her lines perfectly. Yeah. tonight It's so good. I love her performance in this show. The fact that we hate this character just speaks to how good of a job she's done. Yeah.
Speaker: Which like when we saw her in Midnight Club at first, I was excited to see her as like a good guy, you know, like a good person, you know, a positive character. And then never mind.
Speaker: Let's see.
Speaker: um let's see Oh, here's one for you. I didn't really come up with an answer for this one, but I think it's a good thought experiment for you. How does Riley's skepticism function in this story so far? Wow.
Speaker: that's ah That's a question right there.
Speaker: How does his skepticism function?
Speaker: Including when Lisa gets up and walks. Let's imagine he found out about it.
Speaker: i I think, again, we're going to get a lot more in episode three. I haven't watched it yet, but I i know it's probably coming. Yeah.
Speaker: he's already sort of self-proclaimed atheist.
Speaker: Although I think that's just his anger and guilt coming out and not his actual beliefs. Um, his skepticism. I don't know if we've seen too much of his skepticism so far.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: maybe in terms of how like systems work, like he doesn't really seem to be participating in AA, at least the one on the mainland, because maybe he doesn't think it's going to work for him or, or what he's,
Speaker: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if I can answer that yet. Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker: That's a good question. What do you guys think? Put it down in the comments. want to see what you guys come up with.
Speaker: i I think skepticism is something that persists no matter what. If we want to be skeptical, we will come up with reasons for everything.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We can see things happen right in front of us, but if our're skeptic if we want to hold on to our skepticism and not believe in whatever it is, right? Let's just use the flatter theory for an example. Okay.
Speaker: People who want to believe in it are going to believe in it regardless of the proof. Mm-hmm. So their skepticism is is functioning in spite of everything that says it's not true. And they will hold on to everything that says that it is true, that it's a flat earth.
Speaker: That's my favorite conspiracy, by the way. The earth is just flat? Yeah. Flat earthers are my favorite, respectfully. I love talking about it.
Speaker: Yeah. Chime in in the comments if you're, if you believe in flat earth, I would to get your point of view. Honestly, I do know a few in person and we have.
Speaker: Oh yeah. oh Yeah. so fun Yeah.
Speaker: Um, what, let me see how to ask this one. Um,
Speaker: Father Paul's sermons are giving us a glimpse of his inner thoughts and ultimate motivations.
Speaker: How do you think maybe his sermons are preparing the congregation for what he believes is coming next? It's,
Speaker: it works in two parts. One, it's the emotional buildup. I think he's you know he knows how to speak.
Speaker: It's very clear that he does. and knows how to speak to a crowd. And during the the beginning of Lent Mass, he does a very good job of almost being performative, but it's very emotional. It's very
Speaker: excitable. He, he's passionate about what he's talking about. And so I think that in turn gets the other people excited and worked up about what he's talking about and about coming back to church and be like, Oh, this guy's a good speaker. We want to come hear him again. Um, so I think,
Speaker: he's doing it in that way because when he's talking to people one-on-one, he seems a lot more down to earth, a lot more calm and personal. And this one, he, he almost feels like those, those mega, mega church pastors. They're just like grandiose and over the top, but with, he's got some, uh, like a good harness on it in a way that it, um, it works for him.
Speaker: But,
Speaker: I think the content of what he's talking about during that mass is extremely important too. ah He says, this is all heading into Easter. This is all going into Easter. Lent is the beginning. it's It's repentance. It's making amends of our sins, right?
Speaker: Which one of our characters have made huge sins, right? He was hurt somebody or killed someone, right? he This is all heading towards Easter, towards rebirth, eternal life, life that rises again, even out of sin, even out of blackness, love rises again.
Speaker: bring yourself, God will do the rest. And I just, I I love that, that scene. I think, I hope that answers your question.
Speaker: And I think he's preparing them to be like, this, this is what the church is all about in his mind. This is what the church is all about. This is what faith is all about. Rebirth, eternal life, rising out of sin and blackness.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: I hope that was like oh it wasn't redundant. No, that was great.
Speaker: That was all my questions. Okay. I have
Speaker: the theme of the episode that I want to talk about a little bit more and provide some evidence and that I have sort of a hypothetical that I want to leave everyone off with. So what is the theme of the episode? I've mentioned it before. i think it's faith and community and how the Two are conflict with each other, and but how they also intertwine with another as well.
Speaker: So there's conflict between inclusion in the community and exclusion. from that same community. And faith is supposed to be unifying. It's supposed to bring people together, bring centers together, but judgment and control affect how people act to those they think threaten that community.
Speaker: So some of the evidence that we see is Bev Keen and how she sort of behaves. she kills pikes She kills Pike and the everyone marked by their community is standing on the side watching this. And I think that goes back to everything that Riley was saying about how can people just stand by and watch people these horrible things happen. And you see that in this episode, you see everyone who's been marked by Ash Wednesday with the, the Ash cross on their forehead is standing back doing nothing.
Speaker: Well, it's the sheriff, it's the doctor. He'd go up and try to help and try to see if there's something that they can do. And I think that's a very powerful scene.
Speaker: And,
Speaker: that I think another piece of this evidence is Riley wants to be included in this family and in his family, but he's kind of
Speaker: he's coming back into the fold and it's a little bit harder because his he he made a mistake and is obviously his dad's still upset.
Speaker: And he wants to help out on the boat with his, with his dad.
Speaker: ah community and faith are woven together because people who only go to mass for ash wednesday eastern christmas are only there enough to be included in that community or at least that's sort of what
Speaker: it's kind of um implied and bev keen doesn't think that you okay sorry i totally knocked into my microphone
Speaker: oh Also, feel free to interrupt me at any point if you want to add something. ah but by Finish your thoughts. okay bev keen doesn't think that that is enough for inclusion like you see her being sort of cynical and um upset to people who come just for like the big holidays and for for lent for ash wednesday and especially when um i think it's like the last mass when it's
Speaker: um just like the couple of them she's back to normal as if it's a good thing that there's only a couple of them uh kind of like she was like called it yeah um what you had started to bring up at the very beginning when ah I think it was Lise's dad, the mayor, was talking to Sheriff Hassan and saying like, hey, it would mean a lot if he just came to mass, you know, just just to come, like be part of the community. And that really does ah speak to how ingrained they really believe that the church is with the community.
Speaker: Exactly. Yeah. We're not trying to convert you. And they kind of flip the narrative in the next episode with the whole conversation of like, if I go to your school and hand out the Quran to everybody, you're going to have a fit.
Speaker: Meanwhile, you're letting my son have, you know, you're handing out the Bible to my son. Who's not Christian, not Catholic. ah So you really, it's good to have,
Speaker: perspective on these kinds of things. We have our perceptions, but it's good to have perspective.
Speaker: Yeah. um And the conflict in with faith is succinctly the conversation that barely has with father Paul. And I, I won't go too much into that because we've already covered it, but it's the,
Speaker: but but like he says, the only thing that lets people stand by watching all the suffering and doing nothing is the idea that suffering is a gift from God. And again, Father Paul is saying, you can take our awful works and turn it into something great.
Speaker: And who
Speaker: it's again, it's an interesting conversation because Father Paul really believes that
Speaker: that's and in that summit and he has complete faith in that and riley thinks he has got he's got faith in his side as well and and like belief in his side about his idea of faith and religion but i'm not so sure so
Speaker: if we If you think about, this might be a spoiler, so if you really, really don't want to think about what happens next, go ahead and skip ahead. But if you think about what you remember, what ah happens, right?
Speaker: So the experience that Father Paul is is speaking from. Something where he's suffering and what he's doing with it.
Speaker: So he's speaking in a literal, literal sense here.
Speaker: Not anything metaphorical. And you could even say that his sermons, he's speaking from a literal sense.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. It's interesting. And we'll be able to speak on that a lot more as the next episodes come and go. um And it's so hard not to just like tangent into my own beliefs and philosophies, but that's not why we're here.
Speaker: Why not? Why not? You know? We've already, what we're at an hour seven. um But my personal philosophy is yes, we're not here with any guarantees of happiness of any kind.
Speaker: So finding joy where you find it is amazing. And everybody is going to suffer. Everybody does. So giving each other forgiveness and grace is paramount to our own happiness also because everybody goes through something.
Speaker: But it is our response. It's my responsibility to take what suffering I have gone through and what am I going to turn it into? Am I going to turn it into cynicism, nihilism,
Speaker: anger? What am I going to do with it? and i yeah Can I turn it into something positive, something beautiful, something good?
Speaker: And I will say the people that are the kindest, most forgiving, less least, the most least judgmental people that you will come across are the people that have been to hell and back and come out the other side as a good person.
Speaker: A lot of people that haven't been through anything that hard, maybe yet, tend to have a little bit of ah a pride to them thinking because I've made all these right choices my my life is so good is it because some of those people come across very judgmental and very haughty and prideful so
Speaker: I think you're absolutely right and it's something that i think about a lot and i i think it works perfectly with this episode is why is there suffering like does if if there is a god why does he allow suffering and why is there suffering because there is because there is and because there is i honestly think you you can't have this This is just, this is philosophy and this, we could just go back and forth on this, but can you have happiness without suffering?
Speaker: Can you have happiness without sadness? um Can you have light without dark? It's just, don't
Speaker: I've, it's a philosophical question and there's no right or wrong answer. I've have my answer, but that's based off of my life experience and you're going a different answer based off of your life experience.
Speaker: And neither of us are wrong. So. Exactly. oh
Speaker: and don't know where I was going with that, but I just. No, I love it I, I really liked your, what you were saying and I wanted to.
Speaker: hopefully add to that but you did it way better than i did i don't know about that um anything else before we move into a clip of cory's comments Yeah, want to kind of leave everyone, again, with a hypothetical.
Speaker: What does it mean to be part of a community of faith? you know Is it belonging and mutual aid, or is it obedience and conformity? i just think of the show. kind of shows how ah promise of salvation can become a weaponized ritual, especially when it's yeah wielded by the righteous few.
Speaker: yeah.
Speaker: My goodness. What were you going say? i was going to say, shoot.
Speaker: It's escaped me. Belonging and mutual aid, obedience and conformity. Oh, we have this expectation on others to be how we see them. If you see somebody and they present themselves as just being perfect, you know, we know that nobody's perfect.
Speaker: We expect them to be completely capable in all aspects of their lives to not have problems that maybe we ourselves have. But then we expect other people to give us forgiveness for our shortcomings.
Speaker: And then when those people that we put on a pedestal because they look so perfect have shortcomings, maybe sometimes we're not as forgiving. But we expect forgiveness from others. We expect understanding.
Speaker: Are we always extending that forgiveness or extending that understanding to others? Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker: So the character Bev Keen definitely likes to portray herself as, as somebody
Speaker: that's pious, more pious than everybody else, more just better. She's better. And we'll learn later um her true character on the inside, what's on her inside.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: she's She's one of those personalities that that kind of make people not want to be part of a church community, honestly. Exactly. Met a few not as as extreme as her, my goodness. little bit A little bit of the little bit of the same vibe.
Speaker: Yeah. Like rules for for thee and not for me. Yeah. yeah this This episode was was great at at showing that as well, because you have the, the sermon being about forgiveness, like the, the Lent is the start of forgiveness, but you have these, these members of the community, these people in town who have made mistakes like Joe, Colley, and, um, they're not being forgiven, you know? Right. So,
Speaker: So we want forgiveness for ourselves, but are we extending it to others? Exactly. Exactly. there This why is why the show is so good because there's so much in it and you can just get something different every time you watch it.
Speaker: so Yeah, we could just go on. Yeah. Anyway, you've got some Corey comments. I do. I have some Corey's comments.
Speaker: All right. Let me make sure I'm on the right audio tidbit here.
Speaker: You just finished watching episode two. What are your thoughts? Well, you could definitely finish yawning first. It's okay. You can tell that they were definitely inspired by...
Speaker: The Lost Boys. There was even like almost a whole scene in there where she was looking at her photos and then looking out the window that was in The Lost Boys. Um... I mean, Drug Dealer dies. That's like a horror movie trope, you know, where they take out the sinners first.
Speaker: Um...
Speaker: That last scene was a trip though, that definitely changed a lot of the people's minds. And ah bet you any money the next time there's a sermon, it will be packed. Right?
Speaker: And that that's that, you know? Still enjoying it? Yeah, i yeah I don't know. I do, yeah, good. It's really good, huh? It's creepy.
Speaker: Yeah, it's good. It's creepy. Thanks.
Speaker: That's fun. Yeah, it's interesting how he equated things to Lost Boys. um But it's actually, a lot of it's inspired and has a lot of similarities with Stephen King's Salem's Lot, which I think is kind of the same vibe as Lost Boys. Different story.
Speaker: i
Speaker: don't think if is salem's lot of movie or a show they did i don't know if it's like a theater movie or if it was like a tv movie but yeah they did a film adaptation okay well i haven't seen either of them so maybe i need to do that maybe that needs to be my homework you would probably like lost boys more than i like it um
Speaker: I mean, a young Kiefer Sutherland is always is always fun to watch, but
Speaker: ah it kind of, for me, went a little over the top. Okay. Like the 80s. Yeah. gore Yeah. And I've only seen clips from Salem's Lot. It looks really creepy, though.
Speaker: Okay. Okay. really creepy so unless you have anything else I think that's it for today I think that's it I don't have anything else thank you everyone for joining us and we'll see you next week thank you much okay bye bye
Speaker: Amen.
