Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the island where the nights are long. The miracles are suspicious. And the blood is definitely not wine. We're your hosts, Laura and Noah.
Speaker: This is Fans of Flanagan. We know it's late. But it's time for Mass. Midnight Mass. Midnight
Speaker: Mass.
Speaker: Welcome back to Panzo Flanagan. Maybe you heard that little bit. I'm Noah.
Speaker: I'm Laura. I didn't see the 3-2-1 start, so I thought it was okay. I'm so sorry. No, it's not your fault. We both said we were ready. And here's me just being stupid. I'm trying to give you like thumbs up and you weren't looking at me.
Speaker: Who knows? Maybe we'll cut that out. If not, here you go, guys. it Here's a little fun, a little thing. ah This week we are talking about episode, or sorry, I keep i was so good last week.
Speaker: I said book book five, and and now I go in and say episode six instead of book six. Both are acceptable. You're okay. and Anyway, book six, Acts of the Apostles. But as always, before we get into that, Laura...
Speaker: But you've been watching. So
Speaker: the um show Ghosts on Paramount Plus. um It's funny show. They're on their summer break.
Speaker: So I started watching the original UK version. It's funny. Mm hmm. I still like, i I don't want to compare them, but even though they're like, it's a spinoff from there, there's a lot of similar things kind of like UK office versus the state, you know, you know, you said you were having trouble talking. I'm having trouble talking.
Speaker: It's contagious. I like it. I like the UK version of ghosts. I like this US version of ghosts. It's funny. It's charming. Nice.
Speaker: Makes me laugh out loud. So that's good.
Speaker: Yeah, not much else than that. I did download the Lifetime, um you know, the Lifetime Network. I downloaded their streaming app because there was a book series that had me in a hold in the 90s.
Speaker: If you're somebody of age like I am, it was the Flowers in the Attic books by V.C. Andrews. Yeah.
Speaker: And then they got turned into pretty decent TV movie adaptations. Okay. And there's, and I know I saw the first one, but then I learned, i you know, I lost track of it, but they, I think they finished the whole series and turned them into TV movies on lifetime.
Speaker: And then more recently, which probably it's been a couple of years, they did the prequel book.
Speaker: turned that into the movie and so I'm like okay I gotta watch that so I've been making my way through that and it's four episodes and each episode is over an hour so each episode still feels like a movie in its own but the drama that those stories had a hold on me it's crazy
Speaker: A lot of like family secrets and trauma. Hey, those are all good, you know. Let me show you a very intriguing read. you and don't know if you'd be into it, but I think i think your wife would.
Speaker: She would understand.
Speaker: So that's what I've been. That's what I've been binging this week. What about you? I honestly haven't really watched anything crazy or new.
Speaker: um We finished the latest season of Love is Blind UK version. Was it worth it?
Speaker: Sorry. Is eating McDonald's worth it? Is eating McDonald's worth it? Sometimes. I feel a little sick afterwards. Exactly. But will regret it. No regrets. Exactly.
Speaker: I think that's like the perfect comparison. ah feel a little sick, but I'm not sad.
Speaker: That's exactly, that's exactly what I wanted to, that's exactly how it feels. um But now, she's like, oh, they just finished up season seven for love is blind UK.
Speaker: but Sorry. Love is blind us version. And because they've all released, we don't have to wait for the next episode. So now we can binge it. I'm like, oh, yay. So now I'm being roped into that too.
Speaker: um Which again, it's like McDonald's twice in a row. It's all right, but it's, depreciating in value. so ah so give yourself Just give yourself a palate cleanser in between.
Speaker: can do it. yeah I have two series that I'm watching by myself, um but I just haven't had time for that because...
Speaker: I started my classes this past week. So I've been focusing on that rather than um watching my own stuff. um And I haven't gone to AMC, but so other stuff that I can talk about is I am listening to, i don't know if I've mentioned them before, a podcast called The Wheel Weaves.
Speaker: um Okay. And they are
Speaker: Reading the Wheel of Time series. And it's a husband and wife, I'm assuming, because they have a kid together, but they've I don't think they've explicitly said it. um He's read them before multiple times, so he's really familiar with the books.
Speaker: And she is reading it for the first time. And they just got to A Memory of Light. And so I am so excited because it's been years that that they've been doing this because they'll do like a chapter or two each week. And you add up that between 14 books and it's going to take years. And they took a year to do Towers of Midnight.
Speaker: so um anyway i'm just i'm really excited to because it's i'm living through them breathing the real time series again for the first time so that's awesome that's been fun and then i found this guy on tick tock i don't know if he's on instagram or anywhere else so sorry those of you who are mature enough to not have tick tock um but he's his name is brandon brandon talks movies and he is watching the avatar series for the first time and he is doing something that i think is really cool where he's blending both reaction and analysis in the same video which i think people will either pick one or the other and um
Speaker: I think he's doing a really good job of showing his reactions and then also talking about what's going on in the episode. Um, and avatar is like one of my favorite shows of all time. So it's really fun to see someone to go through that as an adult with all these like really sort of adult themes and a kid show.
Speaker: So it's, it's, it's a lot of fun to go check him out. He's got great videos. Very cool. So that's, that's it. I haven't been excited. No, I need to know if you've watched any more episodes of Lost.
Speaker: We need an update. I haven't. I haven't. Because she's been wanting to watch Love ire Island. Love Island. Yeah. So we haven't. All right. You keep me updated on that, though. I will.
Speaker: You can even text me your live reactions. I will. Because I don't think we've done the past three. yeah said you watched three of them, right?
Speaker: Yeah. me see which one is episode four. No spoilers. I'm not going to do that. Okay.
Speaker: But like that vicarious, like living through somebody else's experience of something that you loved when I was watching Lost with My Son, it made it so much, so much fun.
Speaker: That's one of the biggest things that I think about, um,
Speaker: is when i have kids is I get so excited about thinking all of the stuff I get to show them for the first time. And how am I going to show it to them? What age should I show it to them?
Speaker: What age? Right. Right. and I was thinking about the Marvel movies because up until end game, I think it was a really solid group of movies that like came together at the end. That was just so cathartic at the end.
Speaker: It was what, at what age would it be okay to start showing them marvel movies i was like probably 10 11 12 maybe yeah that sounds i mean they're not i know they're pg-13 but they're not there's nothing like crazy in them so yeah yeah
Speaker: i just I was thinking about Star Wars and all of that. I'm like, okay, i want I know they can be young enough to watch these, but I want them to be old enough to appreciate and Right. That's exactly it exactly what I was going to say.
Speaker: like It's easy to show them when they're really young because they're fun when you're little. like the yeah i think the second one. I'm not a Star Wars person. I apologize.
Speaker: I have seen the original trilogy and the second trilogy multiple times. Nothing is retained.
Speaker: I can't. I'm sorry, respectfully. But the one with the Ewoks when I was five years old was my favorite one. And then that spinoff movie with the little girl and the Ewoks, whatever that was called.
Speaker: That was my favorite movie for a long time. There's a spinoff?
Speaker: Are you talking about like the, the, like the holiday Christmas special? like No, no, that was with the Wookiees. okay And we don't talk about that.
Speaker: Like even I know, oops we don't talk about that. You might've just triggered some people. I'm sorry if I triggered you. I'm going to find it.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: but my point was, ah Like it's a fun movie. They're fun movies like for kids.
Speaker: It's called Caravan of Courage and Ewok Adventure. Interesting. oh And it had a sequel. Ewok's The Battle for Endor.
Speaker: But those came out in the early to mid 80s. So I remember watching them as a little kid. But it it would be funner if they were a little bit older and they could understand the twist about Darth Vader and getting their reactions for that.
Speaker: Because we didn't didn't we didn't wait until they were older. So they're like, okay. Yeah, that's and that's common knowledge. you know They didn't have that that moment of the twist.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, again, because i I want them to be like, it's balanced because old enough to understand it, but I don't want them to go through life too long to where it's going to be spoiled for them or they're going to be like, about so well, you haven't seen that yet? seven Six, seven, eight is about, yeah.
Speaker: I was thinking about other movies and I can't remember, but oh well.
Speaker: I had no idea they made a movie about that. They did.
Speaker: um he probably wasn't very It probably wasn't very good, but it was for five, six-year-old me. It was fun. Yeah. Yeah, Harry Potter. Harry Potter for sure. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: lord the rings eventually because that one that one's brutal but yeah yeah there is that weird phenomenon of the because harry potter and the lord of the rings movies were kind of releasing at the same time yeah and uh i worked in ah bookstore and so that we sold a lot of um merchandise for both the movies and people would come in by the movie version cover book
Speaker: That was a terrible sentence. The book that had the movie cover, that version of both Harry Potter and... Well, i don't think Harry Potter ever released a movie cover version, but Lord of the Rings did.
Speaker: So we'd get like whole families coming in. And there was this interesting thing where ah a lot of people were very anti-Harry Potter because of the witchcraft aspect, which I'm not bashing that, like, you know, do unto your own conscience. That's fine.
Speaker: But I didn't understand. And this is where I might get a little judgy, where they were completely fine with their little kids seeing Lord of the Rings. And I had already seen it And so you have this family of like little kids and they're coming in and they're buying the bookmarks and the movie version cover books.
Speaker: um And they're excited. And I remember specifically this one time i made the mistake of asking, have you seen Harry Potter yet? And they went from smiling to deadpan serious saying, we don't watch Harry Potter.
Speaker: And that left me so confused because I'm like, okay, but what about like the orcs beheading things in Lord of the Rings? Why is that okay to watch?
Speaker: Like it was not crazy violent, but it was rough and it was kind of scary. And I'm like, those are some interesting lines that the parents are drawing in the sand is what they're willing to let their kids watch.
Speaker: Not Harry Potter. Which is good versus evil. Right. right Nobody's getting their head chopped off. But even the wraiths in Lord of the Rings are scary. The orcs are terrifying. like Even now they make me uncomfortable.
Speaker: yeah there's There's several instances. Like Aragorn decapitates the the mouth of Sauron. Like their golem bites. that's just That's just so gross. um yeah There's so many instances of it's violent, but because there's no blood, i think it's rated the way it is.
Speaker: Pretty. No, I understand the PG 13 rating is completely acceptable. It's fine. Oh, and then in the, the, I think the two towers, Smeagol's transformation into.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. In Harry Potter too, but you you do get some like uncomfortable images and things that can be scary. I remember not watching the first one because the, I know it's nothing crazy, but the um Voldemort as he's feasting on the unicorn that always like scared me now as a kid. Oh really?
Speaker: And obviously seeing a man crumble the dust is like, what the heck? Yeah. i Okay. I get that. Yeah. the there Yeah, there's frightening images, but it's nothing that... Right.
Speaker: Right. But the witchcraft that some people assume... The witchcraft aspect, like they're they're practicing magic, what the people are assuming how it's how it's played out in the books and the movies is not.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, if if that goes against your conscience and your beliefs, then okay, i respect it But it was just a weird moment for me. was like, what?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I like how we both said we didn't really have anything to talk about in terms of watching. And we two we are talking for 60 minutes. 17 minutes in. ah fifteen minutes
Speaker: I think it's about time to get into book six, Acts of the Apostles. Do you have any notable normals before we dive in? Just a couple, although I think I forgot the second one that I wanted to bring up, but I probably, it'll,
Speaker: get triggered as we go on. But the story that Dr. Sarah was talking about with Aaron after Aaron explains what happens to Riley about, I'm sorry, I can't remember the, the name of the person. she I've got it.
Speaker: Big Nass Simo Weiss. Big Nass Simo Weiss is a true story. it's She condenses it a lot. um I remember hearing that story, i think on a Mr. Balan episode, either on his podcast or his YouTube channel.
Speaker: So there was a lot, you know, they couldn't fit into her five minute monologue, which this episode is like got some of the best monologues, honestly. But that whole story is absolutely true.
Speaker: about them not wanting to understand that germs were causing the deaths of mothers.
Speaker: And I, Oh, that I'm thinking about it, it's a really good comparison with what happens with people treating things they don't understand with like fear and who anger because it looks, it's different.
Speaker: It's crazy. Um, And in this instance, that crazy turned out to be like right and healthy for people.
Speaker: You should wash your hands. That's gross. Don't wash your hands. That was a lot of arrogance on the side of the doctors that didn't want to believe that they were contaminating the mothers.
Speaker: with the bacteria from the ah autopsies. That was, that was a lot of arrogance, I think. Yeah. In that story. But that also plays into this story. i think, uh, father Pruitt had a lot of arrogance.
Speaker: Beverly for sure. oh for sure They were like, we are right. This is good. Anyway. Anyway.
Speaker: I like that. like it's a I didn't look at it up to see if it was a true story, so I'm glad you did. Oh, yeah. It absolutely is. It's wild.
Speaker: Is there anything else? ah Not that I can recall. i was bad and didn't take notes. um I think everything in this episode really happens.
Speaker: The pace is kind of quick, even though there's the pauses with the monologues. um So was like the last episode, I was just kind of Enjoying the ride this time, although I was just kind of get trying to get through it.
Speaker: Because even though I've seen it more than one other time, it was still scary, like the anticipation of even knowing what it's scary when you don't know what's going to happen. But it was still scaring knowing what was about to happen.
Speaker: I get I get what you're saying. Yeah.
Speaker: I'm doing some last minute research because I totally figure forgot. So,
Speaker: and in during the mass session, he's wearing a gold chasble again like he was, think, in the first episode that we saw him. Right. um And just as a reminder, it's supposed to mean celebration and joy. Right.
Speaker: They're reserved for the most significant feasts.
Speaker: So there you go. Celebration and joy. i don't know if there's much of that going on, but we will talk about it. um I didn't have any jump scares.
Speaker: um
Speaker: I think I'll agree with you on that unless I remember. I'm not, I can't think of any.
Speaker: come.
Speaker: Not to mention that they're not to say that there wasn't anything scary going on, but I don't think. Right. But as far as like a specific jump scare, I think we're past that now. Yeah.
Speaker: Because the mystery is gone and now we have knowledge. Yeah. So what point is there for a jump scare, which I appreciate that it doesn't cheapen it. Yeah.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: two things that I wanted to say.
Speaker: i wrote it down my notes when the, when the, uh, the angel first, like appears in the, during the mass, I'm like, Oh, that's terrifying. That's so scary for right there.
Speaker: But what was even more terrifying to me or scary to me was the look on Bev's face after that. And she's just, it's like twisted joy is the only way I can describe it oh no.
Speaker: Yeah, ah that was like, oh, that's kind of even more scary.
Speaker: And then another thing that I had was I loved the little details that they have in this episode, especially the there's at one point, I think at the very end where Sturge is going to unlock the doors and as he's walking, his feet are sticking and it's making like the sticking noise as he's walking through and i'm like,
Speaker: Oh, that is so good. i love that so much. I did not catch that. That is so dis disturbing. Yeah. And we will discuss all the disturbing parts starting now.
Speaker: So we're going to start with the exposition. as soon as I get comfortable in my chair, my squeaky chair. Keep squeaking your chair. Keep squeaking that. I'm sorry. I'm trying to get comfortable. some more.
Speaker: I need a new one.
Speaker: Maybe our viewers can get me a new office chair. Okay. So if all 28 you pitch in how many for a new chair? $5. We've got 28 people now?
Speaker: Average. Yeah. Wow. We're moving up. Look at us go.
Speaker: Okay, we're going to start with the exposition. Don't send me a chair. Please don't do that. Save your money for yourself. Message me on fansoflanagan on Instagram and we'll... ah Oh, my word.
Speaker: We'll arrange something if anybody feels so inclined. All right, so the episode starts off in the aftermath of...
Speaker: Riley's death and Aaron is just sort of stunned sitting there with a blank look on her face, kind of looking at where he was, where his ashes are.
Speaker: And she's kind of sitting on the boat. Um, she goes into town and she, the first person she goes to see is, um Dr. Sarah Gunning.
Speaker: and tells her the story and she's like, i I know it's crazy and I know you have no right to believe me, but please believe me. And then that's when Sarah says, tells the whole story about the doctor that was called crazy as well for making people wash their hands.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: and so And then she shows Aaron the little tests that she's been running with her mom's blood and with Aaron's blood as well. as But she reveals that if she puts it in the sun, and it ignites.
Speaker: um And then her mom comes in and Aaron sees that, oh my oh my word, your mom is like, reversed in age. How is that possible? Kind of thing.
Speaker: Uh, the second person she goes to see is the sheriff to do the same thing. And the sheriff gives his monologue about why he came here to this Island. And it's about how he signed up to protect the country after nine 11 how they, at first they, they recruited him very heavily and were like, Hey, yeah, you have this higher position of power.
Speaker: Um, cause we need you, we need your skills, your cultural influence, um, like language, that kind of thing. And then they became afraid of him because he pushed back a little bit on something. And so he, um, he left because for dignity, I think and it's what the end reason what was, ahead.
Speaker: um go ahead Wonder if there's a little bit of a continuity error because in the beginning of the series, he talks about having converted to being a Muslim because of his wife.
Speaker: And then in this story he's telling, he's talking about 9-11 and he went to his local mosque to donate blood. Yeah, but he didn't, he wasn't religious at the time. He said that.
Speaker: I remember. He didn't say, mean, he said he wasn't. religious but he was still part of it like if you're a muslim why would you go to the mosque because being active in your religion is different than converting to it i don't know that's true i was just kind of thinking about that and there's another continuity thing i want to talk about later we can discuss it Mike Flanagan, you have answers to give us. We've got questions for you.
Speaker: But he, he's like, you want me a Muslim man who the community has had a problem with ever since I've stepped foot on this Island to go to the Christian church to investigate them. You think, you think I want to do that? And so she kind of leaves defeated and, uh,
Speaker: We end up seeing later on that he's sort of filling out a missing person report for Riley. um Riley's dad goes to see Monsignor and asks what to do. And it's in a very heartbreaking scene. He's like, I've tried.
Speaker: I don't know what else I can do. I've I'm trying to be as good of a father as I can. i just can't. I can't get to him is what he's trying to say. And something they all like The exposition was about the threat being revealed to more and more people. it's The curtain's starting to kind of come back for a lot of the island.
Speaker: There's an enemy to fight against. In the rising action, sense of dread sets in. The island starts to be cut off. Aaron and Sarah and her mom try to leave, but Dirge tells everyone that the ferry service has been canceled.
Speaker: um They're due to like maintenance going on with the boats. um And then later on in the episode, we find out that the cell towers or Sturge goes and like cuts like the cell
Speaker: signal or something like that. The power. The power, yeah. That's what I meant. It's setting the stage for something... that we know is not good because the islands becoming closed off. Now what's going to happen?
Speaker: And we get a what happened? Nothing. I'm just trying to like figure out what volume I want my headphones. And then we see a very long procession as the community sings and walks together and gathers at the church for Easter vigil service.
Speaker: and that is rising action and we get to the climax where Pruitt delivers a sermon that sort of frames death and resurrection as gifts. And as he's he's giving the sermon, he calls Sturge forward and gives him the the poison and and he's like, you've been chosen, you've been faithful.
Speaker: this is your reward kind of thing. This is your gift. And Serge drinks the poison that we, because we see like cans of rat poison.
Speaker: And he drinks it and obviously dies. And as soon as that happens, the congregation kind of goes crazy and um people are shocked and gasping and the sheriff pulls his son and tries to leave.
Speaker: And boom, the angel is standing at the doors in a, in a chauzeable and preventing anyone from leaving. And it's really, really unsettling and kind of scary.
Speaker: And he just walks forward and joins Pruitt up at the front of the congregation. Um,
Speaker: I think Sturge awakens at that point. And so it's like real to everyone. Hey, like this, this is a miracle. um But then the sheriff tries to leave again with his son and his son refuses and wants to stay.
Speaker: So the sheriff whipped out a gun who, after he said that he doesn't carry a gun on this island because he doesn't want to be seen as a threat and tries to get his son to come with him and he shoots.
Speaker: No, I'm sorry. and I... He shoots up at the ceiling. shoots at Yeah, up at the ceiling. And he shoots at Father Pruitt, but I think he misses. And then everybody, like some of the congregation grab him.
Speaker: yeah um and in a heartbreaking moment, his son is like, i choose God and drinks a poison and falls dead.
Speaker: And that's when everyone else starts drinking the poison cups. They collapse to their death.
Speaker: And chaos begins as those who are resurrected immediately turn on the few who did not drink.
Speaker: And then we get to the following action. um As all of this is happening, the gun is lost in the shuffle and Mildred, I believe her name is, picks up the gun and shoots Pruitt right in the head.
Speaker: And he collapses and is out for the count. And as soon as that happens, the angel,
Speaker: flies at Mildred and takes her away and we don't see her again for the rest of the episode. That was almost like a jump scare. That that's yeah. That's the only one I would have considered, but I don't think it's, it was one.
Speaker: Yeah. Just considering it it was, it was pretty sudden, but it wasn't like it wasn't a proper jump scare, but that would be as close to one as we could get in this episode.
Speaker: Yeah. Um,
Speaker: yeah so the those that have been resurrected resurrected immediately turn on the few who did not drink and start using them as food um in a sort of terrifying couple of minutes um and in the resolution aaron um sarah
Speaker: liza Wyatt and his parents all try to leave. I don't know if I'm forgetting anybody in that group. but Let me see
Speaker: Dr. Sarah Mildred. Or no, she's gone at that point. angel So it's Dr. Sarah, it's Aaron, Riley's parents, Wade and Lisa. I think that's all of them.
Speaker: Yeah. um They end up grouping up and try to leave. It's in a really, in a moment that I found um sort of heartbreaking is, is Lisa's parents are trying to get her to drink the poison.
Speaker: um and she's like, no, no, no, I don't want to. She's crying and she's crying and crying. And that's like shown um compared to like other points of view where one of the altar boys drinks it and then ends up like biting his father.
Speaker: really feeding on his dad and and it's crazy it's a crazy scene and they try to leave but ed um sacrifices himself to kind of like hold back the people um and as they're trying to leave they find bev hiding out being scared and everything, which is so fun to see.
Speaker: And Aaron shoots her and they escape.
Speaker: ah It was so cathartic. It was felt so good. I'm using cathartic a lot this episode. Let's check. But it forward of the day yeah for the day it felt so good to see her get shot in the stomach.
Speaker: She's just been a pain. in the butt the entire season. So it was nice. It was, it felt great to see. and they run off into the night. And but like, I don't know, they say five minutes, but after little bit of time, she awakens, she is resurrected as you could say, and calls for the doors to be unlocked to spread the gospel.
Speaker: Um, and Sturge kind of pushes back and he's like, oh father Pruitt wanted them closed for this exact reason. So like we could control people and they could control their urges and everything like that. And,
Speaker: in a power grab, she doesn't let that happen. And she makes it so that, um, she's letting all of all the vampires go and letting them loose on the town. And that is the story arc for the, for the episode.
Speaker: Do have anything you want to say I like that they framed it like this as far as the rising action in the story arc because the next episode is like part two of this episode.
Speaker: It really is just one storyline broken into two. Yeah. I think my favorite my favorite part was when Beverly was so proud and condescending and prideful and when Aaron was threatening her with the gun and she's like, oh, Aaron, we're past guns. What's it going to do? Give you five minutes?
Speaker: Shoots her. We have five minutes. Favorite part. after After they find her hiding out because she was like, oh I'm the food source now. Let me leave.
Speaker: She could have taken the poison. She was too cowardly to do that. uhuh She really is a coward at heart.
Speaker: She really is. Yep. That's how you spot one in real life. and If they are arrogant and people will just stuck up there. Yeah. They're compensating for something.
Speaker: People will eventually show you who they are. um The continuity that I wanted to bring up, I don't know if Ali, the sheriff's son, ever took communion.
Speaker: Or if he did, it wasn't during anything that we saw. So I don't know if he was doing it behind his father's back. Because otherwise, why would he have come back from dying? That's good point.
Speaker: um didn't really think about it until I watched it this last time. i was like, wait a minute, when did he ever, because he had gone like one or two times before, but he was like, he said specifically, I'm not going to take communion. I can't anyway, but he came back. So apparently somehow he did, or it's just a continuity error. I want to err on the side of, we just don't get to see when he does, but.
Speaker: um I thought it was really cool the timing of when the Angel was revealed was when Sturge was lying dead on the floor and the shock of seeing Angel
Speaker: in in in the full endorsement of their pastor. They forgot about Sturge dying. And then all of a sudden Sturge sits up and everybody's like, Oh, like we forgot you are here. Yeah.
Speaker: And they were like, you know, so many things happening at once, but I thought that was not funny, but kind of a cool like timing. They're not sitting there waiting for him to sit up there, you know, completely derailed by the um arrival and revelation of angel.
Speaker: And then i i thinking about Angel as a character...
Speaker: He's like pleased. and he He's such an ancient being. And then there's these people who probably, you know, thinks of how we think of like ants, right?
Speaker: He's just so entertained by this whole thing. And he's like up there and he's smiling and he's like, yep. And his... his
Speaker: type his virus you know they compare it this contagion to like a virus is being spread so he's like all on board he's like yeah i'll do whatever this like dude wants me to do sure because i'm getting my way
Speaker: um what else did i have i liked the note that riley left for father pruitt oh i forgot to mention that yeah he It says, remember, like, remember Father Pruitt, we are dust and unto dust we shall return.
Speaker: And he knew, Father Pruitt knew exactly what he meant. And it made him angry. I think that's the first time we ever saw him angry. i don't know if i picked up on that.
Speaker: Well, he crumples it. Oh, yeah. And he crumples it up. he was He did not like that. I also thought ah thought it was a threat.
Speaker: as like a, this is, this is your fate too kind of thing. Right? Yeah. So I think that's why he didn't like it. And then to further my point that they all get connected ah they're all partaking of the blood.
Speaker: Father Pruitt in the beginning is saying he can tell that Riley is dead. He says, i don't know how, but it's just like how I knew that Lisa could walk. And it's just how I hear Angel's voice.
Speaker: So I still contend that he, in part, because he he reveals his own motivations in the next installment. of why he let all of this happen. It's pretty selfish, but we'll talk about that um as it comes up.
Speaker: But also, I think it's also being fueled by angels desire and need and what he wants to happen.
Speaker: Fair.
Speaker: love that. um I sort of want to transition into themes and something that I, for some reason just i'm finally picking up on um i maybe it's because of the media that i've consumed lately but it
Speaker: one of the episodes of avatar that the the guy on tiktok that i watch um
Speaker: He, he, it, it was about, i don't know if you've ever seen the show avatar, but it, um, they're returning to shoe, uh, for all all you who know what I'm talking about. They've returned to this, this earth kingdom city and it's been taken over by the fire nation, which is bad.
Speaker: And so he kind of starts analyzing the episode and it's like, oh, like this is the erasure of like culture. of a culture of a civilization of, of like their history um because they're like renaming the city and the city had um this name for this reason. And so it's just it when you're colonizing and sort of like taking over
Speaker: um like a people, a culture, a land, whatever you want to call it. Well, first thing you want to do is to erase people's heritage and culture and that kind of thing. um And,
Speaker: I was kind of feeling that and in this episode about the show, about what's happening, um about how, especially with with the sheriff and his son,
Speaker: on
Speaker: you could you can view the church and in the series as sort of like this parasitic organization where it's, um if you want to be,
Speaker: like negative about your views. You could say this this church is being like a parasitic organization or organism and is draining others to further its own agenda or to to sustain itself, I guess. I'm not wording this very well. I have it all in my head, but it's not coming out the way i want to.
Speaker: No, you're good. Keep going. the It's consuming and
Speaker: destroying others to convert people to that, to, to become vampires. Right. Okay.
Speaker: So with, with the whole theme of not theme, but with the mention of Islam and Christianity, that's, that kind of, that's kind of what I was picking up on is of how um maybe during the crusades or,
Speaker: When colonization happens, people push religion onto the people are colonizing and are like, you got to convert or you die. and that's kind of what I was seeing here.
Speaker: Convert, drink the poison, or become food for others kind of thing. That's exactly, well, what it was in the view of how Beverly Keene saw it, how Bev was saying it. And she even said it, she even said it out loud.
Speaker: Like the people who have been doing the right thing will be fine. Everybody else will be dead. Exactly. Exactly. right and I think and her, sorry, her way of practicing religion is the prideful, I'm right and you're wrong kind of way instead of the
Speaker: this is what I believe and I respect that you believe different, which in my view is how it should be. but Well, yeah, but i think i think you could use that to also consider the downfall of the sheriff or the um the fate of the sheriff because he didn't he didn't have that view either. He was like, I know what I believe in is right.
Speaker: And I don't know. He didn't have that view that you were talking about. He was having. He didn't have the better than thou view. No. Right. But he he still was like to his son. He's like, don't.
Speaker: Why are you going over there? They don't have God. We do. Why are you? Why are you doing that? while you leaving instead of. Yeah. I don't think he says they don't. I think he says he is here. Like we have, we've found God.
Speaker: Yeah. I do need to find him somewhere else too. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is a bit, be a really fun, um to watch the movie centers after this show.
Speaker: I don't know if you've ever seen the movies centers. Nope. Nope. Why not? I already got traumatized from dusk till dawn. I don't know if I want to watch Sinners 2.
Speaker: I think you should. I think you should. It's on HBO. I know. It's vampires. It's really good. know. It looks rough, though.
Speaker: It is more in sense. Mm-hmm. in a sense
Speaker: So ah obviously I'm not going to force you to do anything. Like you could. and I know, I know, I know.
Speaker: But I think it'd be a fun double watch because I think it kind of covers a lot of the same topics. And there's a specific moment in there where one of the characters is mocking another because he's like trying to say a prayer and he's like, that's just like,
Speaker: the religion of your colonizers kind of thing. So it was, it's, it was an interesting parallel that I kind of took from this episode. So
Speaker: you have anything else? Sorry. I'm reading the, the descriptions of the violence and sinners. Are you on common sense media?
Speaker: No, I'm on parents guide on IMDB. Okay. Okay.
Speaker: Yeah, they're probably pretty good, accurate descriptions of what happens. ah Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, no.
Speaker: What that about? just it just looks just seems, like I said, rough. so
Speaker: um This episode was hard to watch because it it it's there's like vampire violence And then there's, it adds on this frightening layer of like mob mentality plus zombie type violence, which I don't know if I've mentioned before, but I don't do zombies.
Speaker: I don't, I can't, I can't do it. Um, because it's, it's the mob, like everybody is, vote you know, is, is for themselves.
Speaker: Everybody, you know, they're for themselves, but the the the the ones that are affected are turning on the ones that are not. And I don't know if it's just the vulnerability of the victims that is extra scary. Plus everybody is like, you know, you're essentially like on your own with all these other people um
Speaker: coming down on you, you know. So it's it's just
Speaker: it's just a level of of fear that I don't. that I don't like in the imagery ah being in, you know, a space in a church that's supposed to be good. It's supposed to be safe. And now it's full of terror and violence and horror and fear and the people that you've grown up with and trust friends, family, like that moment with Lisa and her parents have turned and they're kind of looking at her with that hunger.
Speaker: just adds to that level of, of disturb, of disturbing. This. Mm-hmm. Disturbia. It's disturbing. And it's scary.
Speaker: So that's, that's why this episode was rough for me. And I think the last time, not yesterday, I was fine yesterday, but watching it the other time after having not seen it for a long time, it really, it did give me nightmares. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: after watching it, which was crazy. but
Speaker: But the redemption of it is the next episode. kind of
Speaker: And we'll we'll talk about our opinions on on on what we think of how it concludes next time. But I like how it concludes.
Speaker: I'm excited to watch it again because I honestly don't really remember much about the finale. yeah I honestly thought this this last half or the quarter, I guess you could say, was going to be in the finale. I couldn't remember how they paced it.
Speaker: So I'm im excited to see what they do. Yeah. I didn't remember how fast-paced it all is because it's seven-episode series. so yeah Yeah.
Speaker: You think you have more time and nope, it's here. No, it's, it's coming. It's here. Yep.
Speaker: A little rundown on the themes real quick. Um, I think in this episode we have sort of the crux of faith versus doubt. We have, um, some of the faithful becoming doubtful, and some of the doubtful becoming faithful in a sense.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: I like his parents, his parents were always pretty devout. Um, his mom, especially like she, she has a, mo i I didn't even mention it. She has a moment early.
Speaker: but i'm talking about Riley's parents. Right. She has a moment early in the episode where she sort of yells at Aaron for saying that, um, Riley's dead and she, um,
Speaker: like ends up being like, Hey, this is not okay. And tries to, and escapes with everyone as well. And so, um, you've got Lisa who was healed and who, she saw it as a miracle too. And she's like, no, this is wrong. I don't want to do this. And she ends up doubting this whole thing in and runs away as well.
Speaker: And some of the doubtful people like the sheriff's son, I want to say, i know, I know he was never expressed like, actual doubt, like explicit doubt at the church, but he wasn't part of that community before.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: I don't know where I was going with that. No, you're fine. it's it's It's interesting how they use faith. They weaponize faith in this episode as sort of like a mob mentality that we were talking about.
Speaker: What he's calling faith is more control. Yeah. He's saying have faith, have faith in the moments where everybody is drinking, drinking, drinking, drinking The poison, even in the moment when Sturge is the first and he's drinking it and he's saying, have faith, have faith, be strong, be strong.
Speaker: I don't know if that's faith. Well, Bev also, i think she was abusing it more after she gets resurrected because she lets the doors open and she's like, let God decide what happens kind of thing.
Speaker: Sort of like half feet than that. um Which she doesn't want order or chaos or anything. She wants chaos. That's what she wants.
Speaker: She wants punishment. Yeah. Ooh, what's the R word for punishment?
Speaker: I can't think of it. You're asking too much of me in the morning. um She even in the next episode, she even mocks somebody.
Speaker: Retribution. Sorry. That was the word that was looking for. Oh yeah. yeah She knows what's going to happen and people are going to be ignorant of how things work
Speaker: because to save somebody who's not taken the communion, there's those steps you have to go through where you have to have the reciprocity of the blood.
Speaker: And most of the congregation, I mean, even the congregation that's been turned doesn't understand anything about that and she just lets them go putting everybody that they love their families friends at risk of just being killed she doesn't care and then she in the next episode she mocks somebody for it but she's the one that caused the chaos
Speaker: yeah
Speaker: I'm so ready. I'm so ready.
Speaker: And you could tie faith and doubt into fanaticism and manipulation. Right. How they manipulate faith and community and religion into control.
Speaker: Right. And Father Pruitt is not innocent in these things at all. Even if he feels guilt later on in the next episode, he's complicit. And he knows. He started.
Speaker: But does that prevent him from having any sort of redemption? Cause that's also been a theme of this series. Yeah.
Speaker: I will say he reaches a repentance stage,
Speaker: but does he get redemption? I don't know. Yeah. We'll have to look at it with that in mind.
Speaker: um
Speaker: I think it's sort of talking about sacrifice too, little bit and like true sacrifice versus selfless selfishness.
Speaker: I think it's happened in split second, but I think Ed sort of sacrificed for others so that they could live is true sacrifice and killing yourself in order to come back as a, like a vampire.
Speaker: It's not sacrifice. It's it's selfishness.
Speaker: um
Speaker: So there's a little bit of that thrown in there, I think. Do you have any yeah ideas or anything to input about themes? I like in this episode and in the next one, you see the characters, true colors.
Speaker: You see who they are at their core. I love how it's evident who they reveal themselves to be truly. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: I'm really excited. Yeah. There's a good representation of all types of people in this show, which I like.
Speaker: And the natural consequences are very good.
Speaker: Do you have any questions for today? um
Speaker: Was it my turn? I think it was. Or did I? was this precise I don't know. No, it I'll trust you that it was. um
Speaker: Give me 30 seconds.
Speaker: Because I have questions if you want. If you've got one to throw at me, I will compile some for you right now.
Speaker: Let me look through
Speaker: We already talked about that. already talked about sacrifice.
Speaker: ah this is a good one. If you were a member of the congregation, would you have drunk from the poison cups and what would have motivated your decision? And be like, be honest. You're in that situation. You're surrounded by all these people. The doors are locked.
Speaker: There's a, there's a winged creature right there. What are you doing? Yeah. I don't think I could have done it.
Speaker: I don't know. i feel like it would be too scary after seeing so what Sturge goes through and what Ali goes through. But then also there's that community mentality where you're the one that's the odd one Oh my gosh, I don't know.
Speaker: because i'm like, okay, what are some other scary things that I've done? I went skydiving. That's scary. But I did it.
Speaker: What did have? I think i would have been in shock. And I don't i don't i can say i don't think I would have drinking it. Because I was like, there's no way I'm going to do that. I'm not going to let someone else tell me what to do. but Right.
Speaker: i don't I don't know if I would have been able to shake myself out of whatever I would have been in to try to escape or to think, oh, what's the best way? Because the doors were blocked at some point and then now you've got all these people that are coming back to life that are hungry.
Speaker: so I think I might have just become food for someone else and been dirty because of that. Like what's scarier, like drinking poison and dying painfully or becoming...
Speaker: food yeah for the people who have already
Speaker: Okay, here's a question, unless you have another one, or we can go back and forth. We can go back and forth. Okay, I like this one. um The angel is largely absent in this episode and in other episodes too, yet its influence is still everywhere. How does the absence itself function as a kind of presence in the narrative?
Speaker: Oh, it's it's typical horror movie trope. it's It's why like Michael Myers works and like Jaws worked so well. is like The less you see of this creature, like the more presence you feel. on Like Alien, the more presence you see like you feel.
Speaker: like You don't know where it's going to be. You don't know when it's going to come onto screen. and So it just can add that tenseness. And when you forget about it, like that you kind of do in this show, and it appears you're like you're kind of startled for a little bit. You're like, oh, crap, I forgot about him.
Speaker: They kind of become bigger in the fear in their absence. Because your mind. Yeah. Yeah. it's It's a whole mind thing. What was scarier? Was it the gore or their behaviors.
Speaker: What do you mean behaviors? The religious fervor. Some of them kind of lose their free will as they're taken over by the urges. Like I think that's scary.
Speaker: Behavior is more scary. Yeah, I think so too. Witnessing a room full of people
Speaker: give in so easily into something that
Speaker: at least to me, if I were in that situation, I would be like, there's no way that this is good, that there's no way that, um, this is something from God.
Speaker: Um, and to see all those people so easy and willingly
Speaker: switch over is crazy. Cause that's how the devil works. Right. What do you think is motivating them to be to be willing to do that? Like what's their own internal, like what is it that they want?
Speaker: And is that desire? Fear. Good or bad? Fear of death, wanting to be part of community, like everything that we've said before in these episodes, like.
Speaker: So, okay. So they're watching, they're watching Sturge and they watch Ali die and then quote resurrect. They come back.
Speaker: So as they're killing themselves literally to get to the resurrection, is that a good thing? Or is, i think,
Speaker: That's kind of a prideful thing to do it on your own terms and take it. They're taking it instead of like receiving it. Does that make sense?
Speaker: That makes sense. Yeah.
Speaker: And it it goes along with sort of the,
Speaker: my thought that,
Speaker: i I don't agree that people should go to church or, or, or follow the commandments or, or be a good person or follow like follow your religious teachings because it promises a reward, right?
Speaker: You don't be a good person because it promises you salvation and an internal life. Be a good person because that's the good thing to do because it's, it's right because it feels good, you know,
Speaker: I actually she had that discussion with another friend the other day. really? So yeah, it's just, you see people all the time. You're like, oh, if I do this, then I'm going to be exalted. like That's as Beverly Keene's character, really.
Speaker: She's like, I'm going to receive this reward because I've been faithful. And she looks down on all all the others who haven't been in her eyes. Having that. Having that attitude of I deserve it.
Speaker: The superior, so superiority complex. Right. Yeah. ah I'm going to get this reward because I did this. And the people who do good things for an earthly reward and then their attitude when things go bad. Does that make sense?
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: So which moment in this episode hit you the hardest emotionally? Seeing the the girl on the floor, the little girl. Oh, the kids.
Speaker: The kid.
Speaker: That hit me. Yeah. that That was hard. Mm-hmm. And don't I don't even have kids. so i i did I think I dissociated last night to parts where the kids were being affected because I remember it from watching at the time before.
Speaker: i just think it adds more to the delusion that they have of how can you be, how are you willing to do this to a child
Speaker: and like subjugate them to that. Right. So. um Do you think Pruitt is more guilty than Bev or less and why?
Speaker: He's just as culpable. So equal. Equal. She jumps on board with all of it and use uses it as a new stepping stone for whatever she has in her mind for a grab for power.
Speaker: But what he did was wrong. And he let her be his accomplice. He knows what kind of a person she is, but it served his purpose.
Speaker: She's a scary character for sure. we want to think he's not a bad guy because he we give him this pass of ignorance and I don't know what other word i was going to use, but, um,
Speaker: I think there, but he's not, he's not, he's not free from culpability in this at all.
Speaker: Absolutely. Right. Would, do you think that there could have been a way back for Bev?
Speaker: Would there, would there, is there any sort of redemption that you can,
Speaker: would would Do you think she would have been able to be redeemed at some point if she realized what she did and acknowledged? I believe anybody can be redeemed. Okay. She made her choices when things came down to gametown to it. She she decided to to be a coward.
Speaker: And then she took away people's choice.
Speaker: And we see that a lot in the next episode too. Okay.
Speaker: But I believe in redemption for everybody. Truly. So do I think she could have? Yes. She chose not to. She chose to lean into her cowardice and her pride, which is who she is at her core is a coward.
Speaker: That wraps up all the questions that I had. Me too. i Are you ready for Corey's comments? I am. Are you ready for Corey's comments? I'm so excited.
Speaker: I want to know what his reaction was. Okay.
Speaker: Episode six. Stop. Okay, no, do that. Go ahead. Episode six.
Speaker: Episode six.
Speaker: The origin story of the vampire hunters. Oh, my gosh. The origin story of the vampire hunters. This isn't the Corey show. This is just Corey's comments. I'm just saying, like, we now know who the vampire hunters are going to be. Okay.
Speaker: And... um so you think they're going to run around town, like... Knocking people off? Yeah. Yes. Okay. But right now, they're the hunted, obviously. Right. Okay. And unfortunately, a good chunk of the town died because they didn't partake of the sacrament.
Speaker: The communion. The communion. Yep. Yep. And think... think
Speaker: that those four are screwed, man, because they have a whole town against them, and they need to hide. But the advantage is is it's going to be daytime soon, maybe?
Speaker: So, well, not really. It's midnight, so they got like a good six hours, and they got to hide. They got to like hold themselves up to like get away from everybody.
Speaker: That episode was crazy and bloody. It was akin to the bloody wedding. There was a lots of blood. The red wedding? The red wedding, yes. The red wedding, yes. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: And ah there was a lot of blood, a lot of gore. um Predictable, though. That was going to happen. It had to happen. um
Speaker: You could definitely... I see the change in demeanor of the main characters, um especially the other paul Father Paul. Yeah, he definitely looks a lot darker.
Speaker: He looks like a legit vampire, not those stupid ah Twilight sparkly vampires that are kind of gay. Just kidding.
Speaker: oh That annoyed me, you know? What? The Twilight vampires. We're not tangent. I know. I'm just saying. know. ah But I don't know where it's going to go. Well, I know where it's going to go. We got vampire hunters and we got vampires that need to be hunted and killed.
Speaker: Do you think it's going to be open for like another season or a spinoff or anything? Well, I thought there was like a few seasons, isn't there? No, this is just it. Yeah, we got one more episode and that's it.
Speaker: well Well, sure. I mean, why not? I mean, if they're vampires, then there's obviously vampires all over the world now. like You know what I mean? Vampires are real in this universe.
Speaker: So naturally, they're going to be having to look worldwide.
Speaker: Got it. Thank you.
Speaker: I always love Corey's comments.
Speaker: It's fun to to hear him predict what he thinks is going to it's going to happen next. Absolutely. I think it reflects like a conventional makeup of ah of a show and a movie.
Speaker: But Flanagan is not conventional. So that's what makes it extra fun. I really like how he was it's like, oh, they're going to become vampire hunters now. but This is the origin story of them.
Speaker: right That's all I have. Unless you have anything else. i think I'm i'm good Thank you all for joining us this week and we will see you next week for the finale book seven.
Speaker: Thanks. Bye. Bye. bye
Speaker: Amen.
