Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the island where the nights are long. The miracles are suspicious. And the blood is definitely not wine. We're your hosts, Laura and Noah.
Speaker: This is Fans of Flanagan. We know it's late. But it's time for Mass. Midnight Mass. Midnight Mass.
Speaker: Welcome back everyone to Fans of Flanagan. I'm Noah. I'm Laura. And this week we are diving into book five. Hey, I got it right this time.
Speaker: a Gospel of Midnight Mass. Before we get into that, Laura, what have you been watching? So Noah made sure I was ready for this recording.
Speaker: There is a show on Hulu that I came across just doom scrolling and someone talking about this show in a in a you know little video.
Speaker: It's on Hulu. It's called Interior Chinatown.
Speaker: The premise is really cool. it's I don't know how to explain it. it's It behaved like...
Speaker: They're on a set of a detective show. But nobody acknowledges it. Nobody breaks the fourth wall. And the main character is like a background extra.
Speaker: he's starting to become a main character. That's all I'm going to say about it. It's a fun watch. Interior Chinatown. And then... I...
Speaker: i kind of started watching too much on Netflix. It's a new Lena Dunham show. um Her writing is always really clever and funny, so I appreciate that a lot.
Speaker: um And then finally said fine and started back into Wheel of Time.
Speaker: Nice. So I have a maybe two, three episodes left to go before the end of that. And I kind of took your advice where I'm just detaching myself more while I'm watching it.
Speaker: And you had mentioned, you're like, I just imagine it is like another turn of the wheel separate from books. And so I'm like, I'm really going to internalize that. And I did. And it's helped.
Speaker: It also helps that episodes two and beyond are good. They're better. Yeah. But I have emotionally, fully emotionally let go of what they're changing from the books because it's significant what they've been changing.
Speaker: So I'm not happy that they do it, but I'm able to enjoy, enjoy the show for what it is. um I don't want to burst your bubble.
Speaker: Oh, it canceled. I know it. Oh, okay. Okay. Oh yeah. I don't know. I think I told you, no I told you. Yeah. I'm super disappointed. I have hope that maybe they'll redo it in a few years or something. I don't know.
Speaker: Cause I think, maybe I think it's a story that could be told. Even if somebody else picks it up and takes it, um it could be okay.
Speaker: yeah if If they pick it up from here and if if they, it's i mean i understand what they're doing with changing elements is to fit all these other things into a shorter amount of time, even though it's a series and not a movie.
Speaker: I just disagree with the execution content. Yeah. content right I think i think it could be it could be good if somebody picked it up and took it from there. They could even put it back on track in some ways with all the things that happen next.
Speaker: But there's hope yet, I think. We'll see what happens. And if you haven't read the books to anyone listening, again, I recommend fully that you read the books. They're so good. I know there's 14 of them. Just do it.
Speaker: Please just do it. Must read. Must read. Audiobook them if you have to. Michael Kramer and Kate Redding do an amazing job. So. Yes, they are excellent.
Speaker: Um, Also, this isn't what I've been watching, but it's time i need to finish rereading book three of of Stormlight.
Speaker: Finally. But I know I'm not going to sit down and read it like with my eyeballs. So I broke down and I downloaded the Audible, the audiobook version of book three. And I'm starting from the beginning, even though I think I was like,
Speaker: ah third of the way through which isn't nothing because you know it's 1300 pages but yeah um my my son i just want to say real quick he's like a speed reader you know you know attack on titan the end of the um the manga yeah right it's it's the three volumes in one they're like this okay wow They're significant.
Speaker: They call it the omnibus. So I got him the first three. And then I just recently got him the second three books, you know, in one. Look them up on Amazon if you want to see like how massive if these are. i was He finished it in a day.
Speaker: and a day? In a day. i mean, it is it is like manga. So it's going to be faster to read than... It's not dialogue heavy. I know. Yeah. I know, but it's like, and so i I've been trying to get him to read Way of Kings because I know he'll enjoy it.
Speaker: um And I finally went, you know what? I would love to see how quickly you can get through Way of Kings. And he went, bet. Is that a challenge? You're challenging me?
Speaker: and wait, where a second psychologically trick you're signing to reading a great book. He knows what I'm doing. Yeah. it's He's like, I'll just end up staying up all night. I'm like, well, while you can, school starts next week.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, that's true. Yeah. He's been through the Michael V books more than once. He's been through.
Speaker: Oh, my gosh, a lot of other series. that that don't have pictures that are not manga. he's He's an exceptional reader and his comprehension matches it. He's he's a very he's a very smart kid. but If you can...
Speaker: As he gets older, don't let that don't let that fade. Because I was told that too growing up. And then I just stopped reading at one point. I wish I didn't. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, you're getting back into it. And plus, you know, there's different times and seasons. And that's okay. It's all right. ah just ah We'll see when we can get him into a wheel of time.
Speaker: Give him a whole new personality. Exactly. ah So what have you been up to? what are you watching? Well, we're going to talk about reading since we were talking about that. I'll talk about what I've been reading. I've been um getting through the Red Rising books.
Speaker: I finished the first three and I started Iron Gold maybe like three weeks ago. And I just had a hard time diving into it just because it's ah it's a new trilogy, but it's still connected to the first three, if that makes sense.
Speaker: Okay. And i don't know, it just took me a little bit to get into it. But once I did, i was hooked and I've been, I'm halfway through that one now. And it's a best books are Yeah, I'm enjoying it.
Speaker: um I like them, but I think they are a little overhyped. don't No one murder me in the comments. ah They're good. I'm not denying that. They're good. I enjoy them.
Speaker: They're fun. I don't think they're as great as everyone else is saying. Did we talk about this before? Like maybe when you had started reading them? You know, I can't remember. Because I don't remember...
Speaker: I don't remember anything about them, but I just Google searched it and it said I did the same Google search four weeks ago.
Speaker: It's like hunger games and Percy Jackson in space. Oh, okay. Yeah. I might've just heard an influencer talking about it and decided to Google it to see if I was interested.
Speaker: Apparently just nothing caught my attention. Cause I don't remember, but okay. Okay. you might You might think it's a little too YA at first. i And you would not be alone.
Speaker: i don't I don't hate YA, so. Yeah. Yeah, that's okay. Sometimes that's the only place you can go if you don't want to read Smut.
Speaker: It's true. You're not wrong. Like half of the fantasy genre now is just filled with that. It's not safe. It's not safe. Yeah. Where are my books? um but After after i finish Red Rising, because I got to finish all of them, I think I'm going to read book that someone got me for my birthday actually called Priory of the Orange Tree. Yeah.
Speaker: And it's a big book and it's got a beautiful cover on it of a dragon wrapped around a tree. And I don't know anything about it except it's a big book about dragons and I've heard it's fun and good. And I looked at the reviews on Goodreads. so I love going into a book called like that.
Speaker: That's awesome. Exactly. I try to do that now with not only books, but movies as well. And I'll get into that in a second. um yeah I just, I try not to watch trailers anymore.
Speaker: It's hard going to the theater because now they play like 30 minutes worth of trailers. And each trailer has like the whole plot and resolution in the trailer. And you're like, oh, okay, that's, it's going be from this scene.
Speaker: Yeah. Don't need to watch that now. Yeah.
Speaker: Um, so I'm excited for that. And in terms of what I've been watching, um my wife did the wife thing ah where she put on a show for her specifically, but because I was in the background doing other things, I kind of got invested accidentally. I didn't want to be of a show called love Island.
Speaker: Oh no, what has she done?
Speaker: and I was specifically like, no I don't want to watch that. And she watched started watching it by herself and everything. She would put it on when I was like, oh, I'm going to go play video games with my friends or, oh, I'm going to be in the kitchen doing dishes or whatever. And of course, I'm going to look over at the TV once in a while.
Speaker: And it just, ah it caught me. It caught me. And I just, I had to watch the rest of it with her. It was the UK specific version of it. ah yeah okay i don't mean that in a negative way i just know it gets it's a little more racy than the states versions but there is a state version i don't know know there's like australia the yeah it's uh it was messy and unintelligent
Speaker: and very trashy but sometimes that's the reason you watch this kind of things i love watching the parodies online
Speaker: if there's one good thing to come out of those shows it's the parodies there's the i don't want to say host but there's like a voiceover guy who's um m who is from UK and he does both the American and the UK like voiceover and in between like scene changes, he'll make a funny joke or comment or something.
Speaker: And I love how many times he remarks on them being hot idiots, basically. it's like Yeah, that's, that's,
Speaker: that's amazing. oh
Speaker: two new shows that I've started one by myself. I've started Mr. Robot on Netflix. Okay. That's on my list.
Speaker: I am into it. I can like, I feel like I know where it's going and I'll be happy if I'm wrong. So like, because I feel like I'm getting smarter. I can be like, Oh, this is what's happening.
Speaker: He's thinking this or anyway, I don't want to give too much away. Um, And then you're going to be very proud of me. I started watching lost with the wife.
Speaker: Quiet clapping. Quiet clapping. um I am extremely hooked. Congratulations. I am.
Speaker: um We're going on the journey. um well How far into it are you? Maybe three episodes. cool yeah um again very early into it we they shot and killed a polar what they think is a polar bear they went to go retrieve the receiver from what they think is a polar bear they're all sitting around wondering what it is it's a polar bear okay i don't know they're if it wasn't and they were just like rationalizing it or something no it it is but the mystery of like what's real what's you know not what it seems is a lot of i think episode three is one of the best episodes of television ever wow um
Speaker: But I mean, the show has like so many of those anyway. It's hard to like put them in any sort of ranking, you know? Yeah. But it was funny because we started watching it and then we did the classic going back and watching an older piece immediately. Like, what are you doing here? What are you doing here? Like Ian Somerhalder, what are you doing here?
Speaker: Yeah. And then Dominic Monaghan, what are you doing here? Uh-huh. Yeah. Eventually, Lily, what are you doing here? That's where she got her, like, big start was on Lost. Yeah. And Dominic Monaghan was just fresh off out of Lord of the Rings.
Speaker: What a character change for him, too, by the way. Yeah, he is. he is. He is a versatile actor. Yeah. He's got a range. He's got a great range.
Speaker: He really does. Yeah. So we we did that. And then
Speaker: I watched two, I watched a couple movies in theaters. um
Speaker: Superhero movies. I think I talked, did I talk about Superman? little bit. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So we also watched Fantastic Four. Okay, which one was better, Superman or Fantastic Four? You're going to get a lot of different ah opinions on that. I liked Fantastic Four more. Was it good though?
Speaker: ah
Speaker: It's a superhero movie. Did you see the last two? ah Better than the Miles Teller one. That's for sure. Is that the the other... is that the one that's more recent than the Jessica Alba?
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, don't watch that one. No, I did and it was bad. i was like, what's even the point? Why did they do this? It was like somebody was so overhanded like over the creators that they couldn't do anything good with it.
Speaker: Yeah. Like somebody squashed it. Yeah. It was short. I think it was just barely a feature length. The last one, not the current one. It felt like it.
Speaker: um Which I don't know how they made a movie that felt long and short at the same time, but they did. So... ah
Speaker: I just remember it was over and I was like,
Speaker: I gotta look it up now because I remember it being ridiculously short an hour 40. Yeah. yeah And that probably includes credits.
Speaker: Well, this one's not too much longer than that. Honestly. Well, the new one, this new one has 7.3 out of 10 on IMDB, which is great.
Speaker: A lot of people like it and rate a lot higher than I did. I guess I'm just being cynical. Critical. I like that word better.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: um however i have i did a really fun double feature yesterday um which i don't know if maybe this is what gave me my migraine but i did a double feature of two horror movies that i was excited to watch the first one was together the horror movie with dave franco and i want to say allison brie i've been told that they're married um which is very funny because this is a movie about codependency and a relationship.
Speaker: I don't know. Have you seen the trailer for it at all? I have. Okay. wasn't sure about it going into it, but I really liked it and I had a good time with it.
Speaker: Um, some of the body horror stuff made me squirm, but it's not as bad as you would think in a movie like this. Um,
Speaker: there's a little bit of a nudity scene male wise, but it's kind of funny. Um, just as a warning for you. And then the other movie I wanted to talk about was weapons. Um,
Speaker: which that was a movie I didn't really know a whole lot going into it. um The premise last night at 2.17 a.m., every child from a teacher's class got up out of bed, went downstairs, opened the front door, walked in the dark, and they never came back.
Speaker: that's all I about They have marketing this movie like crazy. Yeah. um That's all you're going to say about it, though?
Speaker: about the plot i mean yes because i again i didn't really know too much more about it i avoided trailers because i was like i am very intrigued want to go into it blind as blind as i can um i didn't even know the actors who were in it so i was surprised when one of them popped up um
Speaker: I loved it. i had a This was one of the most fun theater experiences I've had in a long time. ah it was really It was really good. I enjoyed it a lot.
Speaker: ah So I would recommend seeing it. And if anything, wait until streaming to to see it if you can't make it to the theater. But it's i I think you would enjoy it.
Speaker: Okay. I think I'll check that out when I can. Yeah. I honestly want to know what your reaction to it is. Because the ending is absolutely ridiculous and a good way. I probably am not going to make it to the theater.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Yeah. Hopefully it goes on streaming. hope so. I keep waiting for Life of Chuck to show up somewhere, even for rent. Yeah.
Speaker: And it's not because I missed the window. it wasn't in theaters for very long. And it wasn't in every theater. And then a couple of weeks in, it was like one theater at a time was dropping it week by week. And then I was in California and I was trying to sneak away, you know, cause the kids are having fun at grandma's house. i was like, okay,
Speaker: good time but the day that I could go was like a Friday and they change up their lineup you know on Thursdays and Fridays with new releases and everything every the theater close to me even 15-20 minutes away dropped it oh no and I couldn't make it you know on the Wednesday yeah so that was a bummer but um we'll figure it out Yeah, because I want to watch that one again, too.
Speaker: Yeah. Keeping an eye on it, so I'll let you know if it pops up. But, okay, I will plan on watching. Weapons probably will not watch together.
Speaker: Because your idea of a good time and mine are quite different.
Speaker: I... i
Speaker: i To elaborate, i want to I was enjoying the stuff that it was saying about relationships and yeah like codependency, one person maybe relying on the other one more, or like love and all that.
Speaker: I was enjoying what it had to say about that. I'll give you that. i But if you say you're squirming in your seat at some of the violence, that's... that's I wouldn't call it violence. It was, um, Oh, how do describe it?
Speaker: You don't have to It's okay. Yeah. We can move on. I'll just read. It wasn't gory, but it made you like, it was uncomfortable. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker: Oh my gosh.
Speaker: Anyway. Anyway.
Speaker: I think we're ready to jump into book five. Are you ready? Yeah, let's go. Okay.
Speaker: Do we start off with notable notables? i Honestly, we can do, I don't have any. I, this, this okay episode is just a viewing experience.
Speaker: Like nothing took me out of the story. Nothing. um Even, even the trivia, you know, online about It, Didn't trigger anything that i wanted to talk about.
Speaker: Yeah. It's just that kind of an episode where you are immersed completely into it. I've got to say this probably is my favorite episode of this, the series so far.
Speaker: Yeah. I think book four is a close second. Very, very close. Yeah. But yes, this is memorable at the least, but for sure a favorite, I think.
Speaker: Oh, it's so good. And so we're going to do it. Yeah. I have a jump scare count of one. Yep. This episode. It's probably the same exact one we're thinking.
Speaker: ah Yeah. Yeah. because there really isn't anything else going on horror wise. Um,
Speaker: in one of the sea in the big sermon scene, Father Paul aka Father Pruitt is giving a sermon in a orange chausible and i looked that up because that's I hadn't seen that before and i was honestly kind of having a hard time finding an answer because it wasn't one of the standard colors that they did but I'd found something somewhere i honestly can't remember where someone correct me if i'm wrong i'm not catholic um but while not a standard like liturgical color orange can symbolize warning and prophecy i thought that was really cool i love those little details yeah mike fernigan puts in there um
Speaker: I think that's all I had for a little, little things.
Speaker: But I think we can dive into the episode. Are you ready? um I'm so ready. Okay. So we start off with our exposition. Riley's missing. That's the big, that's the big thing coming off of the last episode. We're, that's what we're all wondering as an audience. That that's what Riley's family is wondering. That's what Aaron is wondering is where is Riley?
Speaker: Sarah's mom is much looking much better. She's looks like she's de-aging somehow. Um, a character who honestly forgot about.
Speaker: his name is bull. I think his real name was bill. um His mom went to the sheriff and reported him missing. And mass is no longer being held in the, ah during the day, but going to be held at night.
Speaker: And that's just some of our, is this the last mass before the final,
Speaker: I don't remember. i think it is.
Speaker: So episodes six and seven are kind of one episode, but split into two parts. I think this is like the penultimate mass.
Speaker: This whole episode feels like it's the penultimate, you know, because the next two episodes are like one continuous, like, event right which would fit because he's calling for an army basically in this episode yeah it wasn't a sermon it was yeah a call to arms yeah h um his statement at the very end of that right before he walks off it's like we're gonna do great things and when he said that it made the whole thing feel like a like a training seminar you know what i mean like instructions instead of like an uplifting sermon coming close to easter ah felt like instructions
Speaker: i I also think that word is very important. Great. We're going to do great things. And it reminds me of Ollivander's quote in the first Harry Potter where he's talking about Voldemort and he's like, great, but terrible things, you know? And Father Pruitt didn't say good.
Speaker: he said, we're going to be doing good things. We're going to doing great things. side right I would really liked that little piece. you um anyway that that's that was the exposition we're setting up the world that we're in the episode and kind of remembering all the information going on and we move into rising action the sheriff and the townspeople are sort of becoming uneasy as some of these disappearances are starting to escalate like um
Speaker: bill bull i guess he's going missing um aaron comes in and reports riley missing real quick it made me laugh when she was correcting the sheriff like his name is bill not bull but then he started selling the plants and she says at least at least they didn't start calling him bong
Speaker: That was pretty funny. That was, that was a little chuckle moment. Um, I also liked what she's, she's like, ah what is the point of going to church and being like pious of no one is helping to find them or something. ah Yes. Quote along those lines, which are just reinforcing the, like the whole series theme basically is,
Speaker: are you using your religion to elevate yourself above others kind of thing? Yeah. Um, anyway, more about rising action. i think all of Pruitt's big sermon is part of that rising action. It's, um, setting up the conflicts for,
Speaker: the climax and the, the conflict of ideals, emotions, all that kind of thing. And his big sermon is about creating an army.
Speaker: Good Friday is, it, I think he's giving it on a good Friday on good Friday. And he's giving the sermon um on passion and how it's barely controllable, which I thought that was an interesting choice of words considering that he's a vampire and the hunger urges that he gets, you know, and it just...
Speaker: All of this sermon to me just felt like another excuse for his delusion. And yeah we can get into that, especially more with his conversation with Riley. I'm so excited.
Speaker: Pruitt started saying that there's going to be a war. There will be casualties. We must be soldiers. God will ask horrible things of you. rely on that compass.
Speaker: And um to me, it was just saying that the ends justify the means that, hey, it's okay if you do horrible acts, as long as it's in God's plan, and it's God's will, and as long as it spreads good, just it furthers is it is that something that's possible can you do is like a final result of good justified by horrible ways well what's good and exactly exactly what's the context exactly exactly and i think we round out rising action with riley coming back
Speaker: he he appears at Aaron's door. But I think in The Rising Action, we set up some conflicts. We set up an internal conflict with Riley. um That comes sort of later in the conversation.
Speaker: um We're getting some interpersonal conflict, some beginnings of that with Sarah's mom. I can't remember what her name is, but she goes to the sermon and she hears him, Father Paul and Father Pruitt, I guess. And they, when they're leaving, she's like, I don't want you coming back here.
Speaker: um i don't know who that man is. That's not the man I know or, or something like that. And what it canno not what a confusing statement for Sarah. Like her mom's like the man who knew, i don't even know if she registers it in that moment, but I thought that was pretty funny.
Speaker: But her, her intuition is telling her that there is something very wrong happening.
Speaker: It's interesting that she's the only one who's feeling it, you know?
Speaker: Although I think in this, in the scene during the sermon where you could kind of see that she's not,
Speaker: She's not feeling what Father Pruitt is saying, that her daughter Sarah is also sort of looking around and be like, are you guys falling for this? Are you guys believing this?
Speaker: Right. so And I don't think Erin was in the church, was she? i don't think so. I don't think she was.
Speaker: I didn't see her. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And lastly, some another conflict is man versus self. So there's characters that are going to wrestling with guilt, with um temptation, um and redemption.
Speaker: and And my opinion, I think the climax happens in the conversation between Pruitt and Riley that, I don't know, 20, 10 minute conversation that we see them have from when he wakes up until he lets him leave.
Speaker: I think that's the entire climax. that's, again, i think it's a reflective of the, one of the, like the first AA meetings that they had.
Speaker: I think it's reflective of that and it would be really cool to go side by side and compare the dialogue. Maybe I should have done that before. so I think that that would be good to do yeah later.
Speaker: That would be a really cool thing to compare contrast. um But in this conversation, the prayer of serenity is really important um and I've forgotten it. So let me look it up.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Give me the ability to, uh, it's not the God grant me serenity. Yeah. To accept the things that cannot change courage to change the things I can and wisdom to know the difference. know the difference
Speaker: And that's a huge part of father Pruitt sermon, but also in this conversation and
Speaker: he's, he breaks it down and he's like, um, give me the serenity to accept the things that I can't change. And he's like, what can't you change? You can't change that you killed someone. I can't change that. I killed somebody.
Speaker: Um, and he starts asking Riley to not feel guilt over murder and he, he And he keeps saying, I don't feel bad about killing Joe because God acted through me. What a fun justification that is. Oh my word. Oh my gosh.
Speaker: I was like, how do you not hear yourself at this moment? Like, how do you not? It's yeah. I know what you're going to say. also
Speaker: Oh man, I lost it.
Speaker: Killing Joe, justification, acting through God or God acting through. I wonder, and this might be contradicted in the last episode, I wonder if some part of his soul is either gone or it's just kind of being quashed, like his morality, his morals, his conscience.
Speaker: is kind of quashed by the overpowering situation that's going on.
Speaker: Maybe. And i think it's trying to just he's trying to justify everything and moving forward with his plan.
Speaker: I think what Flanagan is trying to do, i could be very wrong, is he's showing...
Speaker: the different type of religious people.
Speaker: I agree. And he's, he's saying that you could, there are people out there like father Pruitt who are going to use anything and everything they can to justify their actions through God.
Speaker: I think he wants what happens next to happen so badly. that it's overpowering anything else.
Speaker: he's He's not letting himself... I mean, i think there's the other supernatural forces at play also with him not feeling guilty. But I think he keeps moving forward because he what he believes so wholeheartedly that this is like scripture, that this is, you know, that he's basically the new messiah.
Speaker: Oh, we also get that that piece that he's afraid of death. um Right. with his Was it his sister or something like that?
Speaker: I honestly can't remember because it was a very quick moment. I think you're right. I can't remember. I know he said he had an older sister and she died of polio.
Speaker: um That probably terrified him. So that could be where his fear of death comes in. He does talk about That in episode seven.
Speaker: Okay. Like he actually exposes his, you know, true motivations and feelings. So I think you're right that he has just an innate fear of death.
Speaker: And so the whole event with the angel overseas, he did view it as a miracle because now he's young again. He's not close to dying. Right. Right. So I think you hit the nail on the head with that one.
Speaker: I didn't catch that. Connecting that with his experience with his sister. And it's just fueling his delusion more and more because he just he's so exactly terrified of death. And he's like, oh, God prevented me from dying.
Speaker: He's giving me a way to help others, to save others from dying as well. Like no one has to fear dying anymore. Yeah. Yeah. And spinning it in that vein of religion is making it okay in his psyche.
Speaker: And he keeps pushing it that it's that it's God, that it's religion, that it's a miracle, creating that cognitive dissonance. Right? Right. yeah and he's like lying to himself over and over so many times that he just believes it exactly yeah and again i think it's a great way of showing maybe how different people deal with guilt you know maybe he maybe he actually does feel guilt over killing joe but he just he's
Speaker: um
Speaker: using, I don't want to sound sacrilegious, but he's trying to use God as an excuse to not feel guilt over it. Right. Yeah.
Speaker: Because that's a huge, huge guilt that you would have to burden yourself with. And he's, again, I think there's, ah I think there's also the, the element of the supernatural that's kind of aiding in that to propel the spreading forward as it were like a survival instinct you know from the angel down yeah yeah like a like a viral kind of a mechanism but like you need to multiply multiply yeah yeah yeah that could be good so yeah um
Speaker: So i really i just really enjoy that conversation and that is that specific moment where
Speaker: like Riley's talking about how he doesn't even remember the moment that he killed the girl. he didn't even hit the brakes. He was asleep at the wheel. He didn't even see it. He doesn't remember it, but he feels so much guilt over it.
Speaker: And Father Paul was like, I was there. I saw my own hands. Like I, I know what, what I was doing and I don't feel guilt over it. And he's like, how do you, how does that make you feel?
Speaker: and he's like, um disgusted, angry. And then I love that moment. i just want to say this episode is just a masterclass of all of these actors.
Speaker: And I can't remember the actor's name for father Pruitt, but he, he explodes and he's like, stop lying to me I've asked you for honesty. I've given you nothing but honesty.
Speaker: Stop lying to me. I'm so tired of it. And Riley just goes, I'm jealous that you don't feel guilt. And I do because he just doesn't want that pain anymore. doesn't want to feel that, that pain.
Speaker: That's so real though. It is honest. It is real. It's very important to what happens later too. Yes. And it's just, it's a moment that forces, I think forces Riley to sort of deal with what he's feeling even more.
Speaker: And
Speaker: and then we move into falling action. And i think this is when father Pruitt, start sending Riley on his way and lets him go at, at, at night. And he's like, he asks Riley to see what is happening as a gift.
Speaker: And that if he kills anyone, it's because God made it. So, and it is a gift. And he lets him go. Did you catch what he said?
Speaker: Probably. I just can't remember the specific phrase. So as he's walking him out the door, He says, you'll know because God will tell you who to bless this gift with.
Speaker: And he says, i hear him so clearly. He says that he hears God clearly more every day. But then he switches and said the voice of the angel in his head.
Speaker: Oh.
Speaker: You're totally right now. your whole theory makes sense. sense
Speaker: It's all coming together.
Speaker: It's all coming together. That's a great catch. Yeah. He just kind of says it in passing and I was like, oh, I see it. Right the top, right the top. Yeah.
Speaker: What did you think of um Bev Keen pops in like periodically during their discussions throughout the day?
Speaker: And she drives, you know, his father Pruitt's points home and she, you know, uses the the scripture bashing on him.
Speaker: Like, how dare you, you know, not see this. first She's jealous. She's jealous. She's so jealous. She does not like that it's him because she is seeing it as ah as a blessing, you know, that only...
Speaker: anointed people are you know good good christians whatever church going people should be you know given this gift and it's that guy you know it's riley flynn are kidding she does not like it but i thought her performances were great she's so good yeah um oh i just wanted to notice or say when riley first wakes up and father pruitt standing over him i just really love that eye effect it i think it's hu it's subtle enough it's noticeable but not too noticeable you know oh it's so spooky it's so good it is so spooky it's really excuse me it's really unsettling
Speaker: Extremely. um And it kind of gets, it's, it's, they're more i think when they're hungry and in like certain reflections of the light is when i kind of notice like either they're starving and it's kind of amplified a little bit or it's and it's also like a reflection of the the lights i think don't know i think it is think it's both i think it's both though because like anytime that they've been
Speaker: either newly changed, it's more prominent for sure. But then after, you know, he was fed essentially. It's true.
Speaker: And that, that happened with father, with father Pruitt too, after his change. And then you'll see in the next, you know, in the very last episode. I, I,
Speaker: I remember a specific frame from episode seven that I'm really looking forward to seeing again. and okay um
Speaker: We see in falling action. and the end of falling action in my opinion that riley is wandering the town and he is seeing what father pruett has told him he's gonna see he's gonna see beauty in the world that he's never seen before his eyes have been opened up and on new and he's seeing like the light redder than it than it is and he goes out to the water and you the water's
Speaker: it has, I'm not using my words very well.
Speaker: The water is more beautiful than he's seen it before. And and the the night sky and everything is just brighter and more beautiful. And so
Speaker: it's not explicit, but it could be, I interpreted it as Riley's actually contemplating what father Paul is telling him or what told him.
Speaker: Um, as he's, he's seeing this world and and and with new eyes and he's like, it's, it is beautiful. This is peaceful. It's, it's gorgeous. You know?
Speaker: um And then he's walking around town. He's standing at the beach and he's he's just thinking, he's contemplating, in my opinion. And he goes to go see his family.
Speaker: And there's honestly, ah when he goes to see his family, I don't feel a sense of, oh, is he going to attack them? he going to hurt them? I don't feel that at all.
Speaker: but At least with how they set up the shots. I just...
Speaker: It's almost like he's going to them for guidance and for answers, even though they're not he's not physically asking them.
Speaker: Okay. I interpreted that um I know he, when he was walking around the town and kind of pondering and thinking by the water and watching everybody leave mass, and you could see in one instance that the hunger had returned, so he um by all accounts should have been more should have been less controlled than he was and I think by the time he got back to his house and his parents were sleeping and his brother was sleeping and he's standing over them it is eerie but there is also a sense of like he was saying goodbye can
Speaker: i i could feel that too And if you don't know what happens next, it's like a goodbye and everything's changing now also. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And it was it was spooky, but it was sad. Yeah.
Speaker: Which Flanagan always does so well. Yeah. He really marries those two things so completely.
Speaker: um but that leads us into the resolution the dream always ends with the sunrise that's what i titled this section wow that's deep noah
Speaker: sometimes i have good ideas oh that's so apropos So Riley, this is all in a flashback, by the way, all the whole conversation, um everything that happened after Riley woke up is ah flat is a story that he's telling Aaron as they both made their way out into the water on this boat all alone.
Speaker: I love the nonlinear format of this episode. You have the daytime where they're talking about when is mass going to be whole day goes by, then they go to mass and then he goes to, you know, Aaron's house shows up, hey, come out on the boat, they go on the boat, and then we see his day from his perspective.
Speaker: i love that was really cool i really i really do like that when storytellers do that which by the way weapons sort of um uses okay but if you tell me things about it i'm gonna figure it out you and you know i don't like figuring things out when i'm not supposed i won't tell you anything
Speaker: But yeah, I love, I love that they went all non-linear than we right were reminded, oh yeah, we're, we're on a boat right now. That's where we are.
Speaker: And with all that information, it's kind of like, I remember when I was watching this for the first time, i was like, oh no the realization was setting and he's, oh, he's going to kill Aaron. That's what he's not going to have any control. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. And I love that because I know Flanagan did that on purpose and he soed up set that up for a reason.
Speaker: That horror in that moment. Yeah. And even Aaron is sort of giving a voice to what we're thinking. And she's like, all right, so let's say this is real.
Speaker: And you told me a story like, and we're out here all alone on the water. Are you, like are you doing this to scare me? Like, why are you doing this? Cause I'm not going to be scared by you.
Speaker: I've been scared by like what much worse than you. And i I'm, I'm going to, I'm going to help you without judgment and without fear is what she said.
Speaker: um And he's like, no you're wrong. i'm i did this so that there would be no way for me to run because he feels like he's a coward.
Speaker: um That's a big task he's decided to face. Yeah. Anybody would be scared. Yeah.
Speaker: And so he had the wisdom. Yeah, give him that in a second. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not trying to jump in. I was like, the wisdom to know the difference. Oh, he had the wisdom. Exactly. That's exactly what I was going to say.
Speaker: The wisdom to know the difference, that compass. Yeah. No, we can get into it now. That's perfect. No, keep going. Okay. Okay. Um, he tells her, he wants her to run, to not go back to the Island and to help people, which is what he knows that she's probably going to do anyway, but this is why he's doing this. So she believes him and the sun comes up and Riley turns his head towards the sun.
Speaker: And nothing happens. And he he opens his eyes and he looks to where Aaron is sitting. And Aaron's not there. But it's the girl that he killed during his DUI.
Speaker: But she's made whole again. And he takes her hand and in the smiling she's smiling. And then the only jump scare of the episode, and promise I'm not turning up. My throat is just not happy with me.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: this sounds starts very low at first. Cause it's, it's like a hymn singing, right? And then she takes his hand. And when that happens and he stands up, like there's this huge,
Speaker: how would you describe it? The sound? It's just, it's like burning abrupt, just very abrupt. It's a huge bonfire sounding crackling. wishing fire sounds. It's fire sounds. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And it just, you can hear it very softly, but then it, like you said, it's very abrupt and and it just, and then Aaron's scream is just piercing because riley in fact is burning up in the sun because he is a vampire and his body disintegrates and as the credits roll are you here is just aaron's scream yeah i'm like by flanagan why would you do that to us
Speaker: The whole credits, like her her, oh my gosh. I was like, I want to see, like, I didn't, you know, because I wasn't watching the next one. I i went back, I pushed the push the watch credits button, right? I was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker: The screaming and crying goes on and on. And then even when that dies off, the crackling burning sounds continues the whole time.
Speaker: It's crazy. just break my heart for seven minutes straight yeah
Speaker: um and that's the end of the episode but please let's go back and dive into riley's final decision
Speaker: but I was going to say that he didn't give into addiction and love how that's been his whole character
Speaker: how he ah was going to AA and he hadn't touched a sip of alcohol and It mirrors Joe Colley's sort of story of of addiction and struggling with alcohol, of ah substance abuse. And um it would be very easy for him to slip into that and to fall into it.
Speaker: But he doesn't give into that addiction. And because he has that guilt and he has that hurt, He did a really good job in his work with AA and the practicing. and And I think he was using both of the um techniques, the AA technique, and then the one he had talked about before. I can't remember what he called it, but he's like, you know, he has his self and the addiction self and he just doesn't let the addiction self win. And so I think he practiced really well in the discipline. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Which you're right. That's why he didn't give in. That's why he had so much discipline. Even when he like the hunger pains came back, the instinct was coming back. He didn't give in.
Speaker: getting given and He And he thinks he's a coward. Yeah. and the And what he's doing, because he feels like he's taken maybe taking the easy way out or he he put himself on the boat.
Speaker: So there was no way for him to run because he is a coward and he would have run. Go ahead. Sorry. I think he did that.
Speaker: Because how else would she believe him? That that too, yeah. He had to seal his whole testimony with his death to drive it forward that this is coming. I don't want you to go through this, but I know you're going to go back to that island, so I need to drive this point home that this is real.
Speaker: It's a sacrifice. Yeah. not Not him giving up. Exactly. Yeah. Because you could look at it as one way is he's leaving her alone to deal with this where he could have been there helping them in what happens next.
Speaker: But they would have been so less prepared, you know, not that they were very much prepared, but the acceptance of it would have taken longer to come if he was running around trying to convince people.
Speaker: Yeah. But I love his arc. Yeah. I love that.
Speaker: It's not, the show's not telling us that there is a simple or a special fix in order to get rid of guilt, to get rid of pain. It's going to be there.
Speaker: um But that's what makes us be better and become it's better people. It's what you do with a better person. Yeah. It's what you do with it. does. It's what you do with it.
Speaker: And yeah,
Speaker: We see that with someone like like Pruitt, if you don't have that guilt, that's dangerous. That's not a good thing to have. Right.
Speaker: He's leaning into the situation instead of rejecting it. Yeah.
Speaker: I... Love going back. So going back to their monologues on what they each, what Aaron and Riley each felt death was going to be.
Speaker: And he got to experience what she described, what she thought would happen, that you're welcomed, that there's somebody there who loves you. ah
Speaker: which So he got to experience the peaceful, welcoming, the girl taking him home, you know, taking him to the next place in love and forgiveness.
Speaker: And I think he earned that forgiveness by his sacrifice and his warning, you know, to Aaron.
Speaker: And she experienced the other part. And she she takes on the perspective of the other part.
Speaker: Yeah. I love that. I'm so happy you're putting that out. yeah It's so smart. And the music that was in the scene where they were each talking about it is the same music, the nearer my God to the...
Speaker: That's what that was. In the scene where he, where they're in his final moments. Yeah. I couldn't remember what the hymn was. I was thinking there was another one I was thinking of. It's, it's either near my God to the, or it's, um, abide with me. i get them kind of interchanged. I think it's near. Whatever it is.
Speaker: It's the, the same one that was in the scene with the, with the monologues that they had had. Yeah. Um, yeah. But an absolutely beautiful, devastating end to the episode.
Speaker: I ah cried lots every single time. Every single time. okay I'm just ugly crying. Definitely made me tear up.
Speaker: Definitely made me tear up.
Speaker: So I think the biggest theme in this episode and is redemption and guilt and acceptance. acceptance we I think I like that better than redemption. I like it, guilt and acceptance.
Speaker: I like redemption also because I do believe he was redeemed.
Speaker: But there was an overarching theme of acceptance. I mean, it was all over. it was in Father Pruitt's battering of him that whole day. You need to accept this, accept this, accept this, but my way.
Speaker: And then when he was wandering around pondering, he did accept it, but in his way.
Speaker: That's really good. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah I think that's the really the biggest theme in the episode that I wanted to talk about.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Do you have anything else you wanted to add for the themes?
Speaker: No, I think that's it. You're right. It's it's guilt. It's acceptance. Redemption.
Speaker: Mourning.
Speaker: addiction a little bit of the final sort of stretches of addiction in there addiction yeah
Speaker: yeah um would you like some questions uh yes please
Speaker: and This first one's going to be a little more technical, but how does the cinematography and sound design contribute to the episode's eerie and suspenseful atmosphere? There is a scene when they are in, when they are in.
Speaker: their AA meeting, right? In the rec center. And instead of it being the normal, like, I don't know what the word for it is, but you film, the camera's here and it's there.
Speaker: This person's perspective, this person's perspective, and it's always like that fourth wall, right? And then it was in the ceiling, looking at Riley here, looking at Father Pruitt there, and it was so unsettling. o And it did, it added to to that eeriness to make keeping you unsettled. Like, i don't know what's going to happen next.
Speaker: So I want to say that's the 180 rule. I think that's what it's called. That's what it's called. You're right. It's called because I remember them talking about it in Batman when they broke that 180 rule when he was talking to the Joker and it was like yeah going this way and that. but Yeah.
Speaker: Sorry. Another example of why Dark Knight is so good. So good. Oh my gosh.
Speaker: It's so good. Yeah, I noticed that 180 rule all the time in television now or in and movies and when it's broken, what it means.
Speaker: So I love that you picked that up.
Speaker: It's so effective though. Yeah. And I'm sure there were more than one instance of of that.
Speaker: But that was the one that like I noticed for sure.
Speaker: I ah want to say like the use of one of the hymns but
Speaker: I don't know if I can say that there was a time that it felt eerie when one was playing. I just, it felt peaceful. It's a juxtaposition that, that is used throughout this whole series of this beautiful, like hymnal music and all the variations, whether it's just the, the music or whether it's music with the lyrics, um,
Speaker: it adds to it it doesn't take away from anything but it adds to it just the horror of what it is with the undertones of just these good people most of them you know are good people so yeah yeah what emotions did the final scene evoke for you and why
Speaker: sad you lots
Speaker: sad but proud of him honestly peace it was I'm happy that it was peaceful for him and then you feel a little bit you feel bad for Aaron because what she had to see yeah And on some level, a little bit mad at Riley for making her see that, even though he had to. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. And I know we've kind of answered this already, but did Riley act like a coward? so Nope. why? The only thing that would have been cowardly it was that he was taking himself out of the conflict early.
Speaker: but i don't even think that's cowardly based on what he was trying to teach her and show her solidify the situation to her yeah and the the final question i have for you is um after all of the reveals that we've
Speaker: been given from father Pruitt I feel like we've we know everything now um almost everything except for what he's planning and doing we know like 98% yeah yeah do you find father Pruitt more or less unsettling and why More. He's completely unhinged now.
Speaker: He knows, I know he knows on some level it's wrong, but he's overshadowing that with his means with the end. He's justifying everything to get to that, to that end.
Speaker: It's, it's really cool when you compare him with Bev Keen because
Speaker: Obviously we see Bev Keen as like a, like a, just a terrible person. She's, she weaponizes religion. um she uses it as a pedestal to put herself above people.
Speaker: Um, and
Speaker: like she, she genuinely feels like she might know that what she's doing is evil or not. not okay on some i don't know i don't know how to explain think she she likes the power too much yeah but then she likes herself and her power too much she's very prideful But then you have a character like Father Pruitt you shows flashes of genuine love for his congregation, love for the people.
Speaker: he's just like so twisted into yeah delusion and like using his religion as a way of explaining terrible things or, um, giving himself excuses that it's just, it makes him more scary of a character in some aspects. Um,
Speaker: I agree. Also, on top of that, he's got this added layer of mentorship that he has with Riley and uses that reveal of who he really is at the very beginning to establish.
Speaker: I'm who's I'm Father Pruitt. I've known you your whole life as he's putting himself in that um position of power to make Riley get in line, get with the program. So he's abusing his power in this moment, whether he he thinks he is or not, but he is.
Speaker: So he's using this position of power of mentorship, not only is the pastor, not only is the AA pastor, leader but as the man who helped to raise him his whole life and shape him you know and he's the one who has all the answers helped to build his faith in the church when he was younger so he's the one has all the answers so you have to listen to me i'm the one that you need to you need to obey now
Speaker: Yeah. I think what he did instill in him was that acceptance. And then we know what he did with it. Thankfully. Right. Yeah.
Speaker: But I'm excited to talk more about father Pruitt's character. Now that Riley is unfortunately gone. Rest in peace.
Speaker: Rest in peace.
Speaker: um But that is all I have. Awesome. Do you have any Corey's comments? Of course I've got Corey's comments. I'm so ready. Okay.
Speaker: We just ended episode five. Episode five was,
Speaker: it was so,
Speaker: It was annoying to see that priest try to convince, what's his name? Riley. Riley.
Speaker: That he was a chosen person of God.
Speaker: And I liked what you said earlier, that Riley, the reason why he did not really sin was because of his 12 steps.
Speaker: Yeah, his discipline. Yeah, his discipline. In going through the 12 steps. That's why he didn't partake or um go with his cravings.
Speaker: i had I was on edge, y'all admit, when he wrote that rode that girl out into the middle of the ocean. that was on the boat, we yeah. Wasn't sure if he was going to.
Speaker: make her change or what but boy that ending was absolutely amazing
Speaker: that lady though the lady priestess the lady she's so vile oh my gosh ah for the oh my gosh she is so convicted in her way of thinking it's frighteningly crazy.
Speaker: the But I'm glad Riley was able to see right through that crap. And he stayed true to himself. Yeah.
Speaker: Man, I love the evolution of Corey's comments. Me too. too
Speaker: Me too. He's, I'm glad that i wasn't wrong when it, when I said that, um, it felt worrisome when Aaron or when Riley was taking Aaron out and he was, he felt it too. He's like, ah Oh, something going to happen. Yeah.
Speaker: If you think about it, if he was going to do something, I mean, she lives alone.
Speaker: So he didn't have to take her out on the boat. Could have been in her house. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: i wonder if that rule with vampires in the lore applies where you have to be invited in into somebody's house if that applies here we didn't see him step in well he did not step in just saying i think we should keep that in mind as we go into six and seven I'm a little not nervous about episode six, but when I was watching it with, you know, Corey before this, that night I had nightmares the whole night.
Speaker: Really?
Speaker: In relation to episode six. Yes. So I'm hoping that doesn't happen again. It was not fun. Don't watch it again.
Speaker: Well, out thy will for you guys. I will. guys hear that? you might She's sacrificing so much for this podcast. You better run it. It's five stars.
Speaker: Subscribe. Subscribe.
Speaker: Like, comment.
Speaker: ah so Like a comment. Well, thank you, Corey, again. I know you you're not here, but but you're here with us in spirit. So thank you, Corey.
Speaker: Yes, he's a good sport. Well, thank you everyone for joining us for episode five. And as we get closer to episode seven, the finale, we hope you guys stay with us. I'm really excited to get there.
Speaker: So thank you all. And we'll see you next week. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye.
