Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the island where the nights are long. The miracles are suspicious. And the blood is definitely not wine. We're your hosts, Laura and Noah.
Speaker: This is Fans of Flanagan. We know it's late. But it's time for Mass. Midnight Mass. Midnight Mass.
Speaker: Welcome back everyone to Fanzo Flanagan. And for another reminder, I'm Noah. I'm Laura. And this week we are jumping into book three of Midnight Mass titled Proverbs.
Speaker: But before we dive in, as usual, Laura, what you've been watching lately? I've been trying out a show on Amazon. It's called We Were Liars.
Speaker: And it's been all over social media. So i was like, let's try that out. It's not my favorite. It's definitely meant for a younger audience than me. um There's a bit of mystery to it, but how...
Speaker: I don't know. it's it's It's odd. um I don't want to go into the whole plot because y'all can look it up for yourselves and see if you want to watch it. I'm not saying it's a bad show, but there are some quirks about it that I'm not loving. Like it's hard for me to stay interested in it. Basically, these rich kids go summer on an island in their grandfather's big house and he's got his own Island and very Martha's Vineyard vibes.
Speaker: I think they even mentioned it's near Martha's Vineyard. But anyway, one of the girls gets hurt and she loses her memory of a lot of things that lead up to it and the event itself.
Speaker: And since it's near ah beach, most, if not all of the dialogue audio is 80 yard. Hmm. So it takes, and that's got to be hard to do to like batch the emotion in a recording studio that you have in the moment doing the scene. You know what I mean? So a lot of the emotion kind of, I'm sorry, this is a criticism. I apologize.
Speaker: A lot of the emotion in the scenes falls a little flat and I'm attributing it to the ADR. who That's my, that's my excuse for them, but how they're,
Speaker: leading up to the reveal of how she got hurt and everything that happened before it it's just giving it to you it's just throwing it at it it's a little too easy for me I don't know how to explain it more if if y'all have seen it if you disagree let me know if you do agree Let me know. So I'm not alone.
Speaker: um And then there's ah Yellow Jackets. Season two is on Netflix. I've been dipping my toe into that just a little bit because it's darker and and I know it's going to get disturbing. So I don't know how I'm going to feel about that one. It's a little Lord of the Flies
Speaker: So I don't know if i how tolerant I'm going to be. it's It might be hard to watch. And then The Sandman. Season 2 just came out.
Speaker: It just came out? It just dropped, I think, on the 3rd. So I'm possibly... Let me see how far in I am. Because I don't know. i
Speaker: Let me see. oh I finished the first two episodes. So... episode three soon nice yeah and then my son and i finished lost wow i feel like that that took no time at all you guys really blew through that we were only watching like okay so when we were when he had me watching ah Attack on Titan, we would watch one or two of those because they're like 20 minutes. So, you know, if we watch one 40 minute episode of Lost one evening, it's only fair that we watch two, sometimes three episodes of Attack on Titan.
Speaker: So, it you know, it was like,
Speaker: slow going at the beginning while we were switching back between both shows every other night and then when we finished that and it's summer and he doesn't have to you know be up early for school anymore we were going through two episodes at a time so i guess this last couple seasons went by pretty quick but he he he really liked it that's good And re-watching it this time, like paying attention to all the the things, the foreshadowing, the nuance, the exposition, like everything. It's probably one of the best crafted TV shows ever.
Speaker: And it was way ahead of its time for this type of show that it is. And if you get to it, when you get to it, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Don't know when I'll get to it. ah I'm so sorry. You'll have to give yourself time to just be immersed because it will take you over. And you'll have some critiques, but that's okay.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. But i'm sure I'm sure it's one of those shows that once I start, I'm going to find that I can't stop. And any time that I have, i'm going to be one I'm going to want to watch it.
Speaker: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And you got to pay attention to like little things so you can't just watch it passively. you have to. Yeah. Got to be vested. So what have you been watching?
Speaker: I have been watching. ah We just finished up season three of, I think is season three of Reacher. um Something, a show that me and my wife have been watching for a little, since it started.
Speaker: And we didn't get to season three when it first dropped. So we finally got to it and watched it. and It's fun. It's nothing, it's nothing crazy, um but it's fun.
Speaker: And the it's predictable and, Sometimes I really like a good straightforward show. Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's nothing wrong with enjoying something like that. So I don't really have much to say about that show.
Speaker: Um, in terms of recent releases in movies, we went and saw the F1 movie, which is directed by the same guy who did the Top Gun Maverick movie. I can't remember his name off the top of my head for some reason.
Speaker: Fun. Yeah. um But that's he directed that, and that was that's a good movie. It was fun. Enjoyable as well. I didn't think it was anything crazy.
Speaker: It was a Hans Zimmer score, which was cool. It's been a while since we've gotten a new Hans Zimmer score. Okay. Then we watched the new Disney Pixar movie, Elio. Okay.
Speaker: Okay. That was pretty cute. Yeah. and And fun. Had some good moments. that Not a bad Pixar movie, you know. That's good to hear.
Speaker: Yeah. The final movie we watched is the new Jurassic World Rebirth.
Speaker: Did you like it? it was It's fun. Yeah. it's I think it beats the a lot of the newer Jurassic World movies.
Speaker: um Because, I don't know, for some reason it just seems like a lot of the actors are just having fun in this movie and not taking it too seriously.
Speaker: And... um it's It's nothing crazy. It's pretty simple and basic. And there's not going to be anything you haven't seen before. But like ah I guess the theme of today's episode is it was just fun. you know It was just enjoyable.
Speaker: It's just fun.
Speaker: I like it. I like it. I actually ah had a conversation with my son because my 10-year-old is the dinosaur kid. um And he loves all of the Jurassic Park and Jurassic World movies.
Speaker: um And as a side note, when we showed him Jurassic Park 3, he was like, I don't think I like this one as much as the others. I was like, that's fair, kiddo.
Speaker: That's okay. Okay. yeah But he's been asking to watch that trailer at least once a week since they dropped it. so he's,
Speaker: um he really wants to see it.
Speaker: So I go to IMDB, to the parents guide, right? And I'm reading all of the descriptions of the violence and the gore. and it seems like it's a bit more ramped up than it has been in the previous movies.
Speaker: There's no gore. It literally said there was like a disemboweled dinosaur. Okay, a little bit, but... And dismembered people. Yeah, but it's not it's not like there's blood gushing out of them.
Speaker: He's 10. Yeah.
Speaker: he's 10 years old that's a couple years in therapy right oh my gosh it's it's nightmares when he's gonna wake me up and be like i heard a bad dream again mom so i did tell him i did tell him you know we're probably gonna have to wait till you're a little bit older for that one and he was like okay i understand because the other ones the other jurassic worlds were borderline yeah Yeah. um
Speaker: But he did say, this is why I brought it up at bedtime today. He he said, i bet that at the end of this movie, the new Jurassic World movie, they're going to have a big battle between this dinosaur and that dinosaur. And I was like, like the ones before? And he's like, yes.
Speaker: And I said, I'd be disappointed if they didn't. He goes, oh, they will. It's what they do. Yeah.
Speaker: Interesting prediction. Yeah. You don't have to spoil anything. But that was his guess. He's smart kiddo, I think.
Speaker: Well...
Speaker: I feel bad that he won't be able to see it for a little bit, but. He's fine. No, you're you're right. You're absolutely right. I was just teasing you beforehand. No, yeah. I already made my decision. Although if it were up to his dad, he'd be like, yeah, it's fine.
Speaker: What's the problem? the The last, the the the big bad dino is, I could see it being nightmare inducing if you're young.
Speaker: So I get it.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah that's all I've been watching. haven't really been doing anything else. Cool.
Speaker: Yeah. I'm excited for next week's movie that I'll talk about whenever we get to it. But we'll get there when we get there. so Okay. But we are here. i don't know why that was so cryptic. I didn't mean was like, what's next week's movie? we're We're going to go see the new Superman movie.
Speaker: Oh, yeah nice. I have high hopes and I hope they aren't squashed.
Speaker: We'll see. Yeah. We'll see. My husband was complaining about how it looks in the trailers. And I said, but that's, everybody says they want a comic book accurate movie, Superman.
Speaker: And they're giving it to you. And he's like, oh yeah, that's true. He's also not, he's not a comic guy, so I don't think he cares. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I think we're ready to jump into the topic for this week's episode, book three, Proverbs. And can I tell you, as I was watching this again and everything was happening, i'm like, bet Corey's comments are going to be really good this episode.
Speaker: bet he's going to have some great ones. I honestly, candidly forgot what he said and I purposely did not listen to his clip again. So I haven't been disappointed so far. It'll be a good surprise for both of us.
Speaker: Good All right. Before we get into the what happened, do you have any notable notables or anything before that? Um, i wonder if I i really didn't.
Speaker: I think now that we're getting to like the peak of just, it's just before everything's going to start happening. There's going to be, i didn't have a whole lot of foreshadowing.
Speaker: um But the, a couple of notable notables, I will say when he was doing his confession with God and he's talking about the journey of Saul, you notice that both father Pruitt, I mean, if you've watched this episode, you know, ah father flu is father Paul.
Speaker: um Both Saul from the Bible and Father Pruitt chose the name Paul after their conversions. And then the best scene in the whole episode, probably in the whole show, which is hard to choose, is Liza confronting Joe Colley.
Speaker: So powerful. And the delivery of both of them was perfect. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Absolutely. It was really That was a really good scene. and It's really good. um I have a jump scare count of one for this episode. Oh, I have three.
Speaker: What did I miss?
Speaker: Okay. we'll we'll get Here's the problem. I didn't write down what they were. i was just found in my head while I was at the dealership getting an oil change.
Speaker: Sorry. that's okay. I thought I would remember them. i'm I'm sure that you'll remember them as we go over what what has happened. Okay. and let's Let's hope for that. Yeah.
Speaker: We're going to stay positive. Okay. So.
Speaker: exposition and setup for this episode. we are in the aftermath of Lisa's miraculous recovery. um Stressing the miraculous part of that, because that's a very big part of today's episode.
Speaker: The community is in awe. The attendance at church surges. We see it full. It's very full in there. And people see sort of Father Paul as this miracle worker.
Speaker: The episode shows rising faith, but also sort of a quiet unease in terms of like interrogating miracles. That's the specific phrase I had used in this episode, interrogating miracles among characters like Dr. Sarah Gunning.
Speaker: who searches for the medical explanation and Riley, who just doesn't know how father Paul knew. That's what he says in that little kind of conversation. He just, he's like, I don't know how you knew about that.
Speaker: And we also get the start of Monsignor Pruitt's journey in Jerusalem, how he was a
Speaker: confused man. He wasn't all there. he was kind of losing it. He would get separated from his group and they would bring him back. And he, um, he's, he was lost mentally.
Speaker: He was just lost. The residents are starting to feel better. We see that in Riley's parents as they dance together and his back doesn't, his, uh, his father's back doesn't bother him anymore.
Speaker: And,
Speaker: In that first sermon, Father Paul faints. And that brings us towards the writing the rising action. So Father the Paul faints during the sermon about tangible gifts from God.
Speaker: There are no exaggerations about God's word and everything relating to God. And I thought that was very interesting that he was was saying that there's no exaggeration. Everything is is tangible. not it's not like eternity is not exact an exaggeration and that kind of thing and making it clear in the minds of his congregation that, Hey, these things are real.
Speaker: Miracles are going to be real. Stuff's going to start happening. If I had heard this sermon without all of the other context, I mean, it's a good sermon.
Speaker: That's it it. It was really good. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little concerning, like with the rest of ah what he's been going through. Yeah.
Speaker: As we talked about before, he's preparing the congregation and what from his phrase in this episode for what's to come.
Speaker: and What could that be? yeah. why
Speaker: It's a really moving sermon. I really liked it. if it If it just wasn't about what, um
Speaker: and within the context of the show, what it is about. Right. Right.
Speaker: Another part of the rising action is that we are seen seeing Pruitt's journey as well being told through Father Paul. And he becomes trapped in this storm. He he wanders off from his group and this this the sandstorm rages around him.
Speaker: um Apparently they had been having these really bad storms in the area. And he just becomes engulfed in darkness and finds this unearthed temple that's just cloaked in darkness.
Speaker: Like I said, the residents are starting to feel better. We see Beverly. I'm using her full name. I don't know why. We see Bev put back poison.
Speaker: Yes. And I, I love rewatching this because i was able to piece together what happened, what she did in this episode. Um, we'll talk about it later.
Speaker: And the sheriff finds a Bible in his kid's backpack. So all these things are said, all these things are setting up conflicts that are going to happen in the show.
Speaker: What were you going to say? Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. I heard an intake. Because I'm like, yes.
Speaker: It's exactly what's happening. There's after ah that one first sermon. Was it after the meeting?
Speaker: No, there's a couple of times. where father Paul is, has a coughing fit. Oh no, it was at the very, sorry. It was the very beginning.
Speaker: And it's the right after Lisa, mass where Lisa walked, right. The congregation is leaving. he he either goes to the back of the church to a sink or he's in his house.
Speaker: He goes all the way back to his house. Yeah. He's like retching and coughing into the sink. And then the, uh, other sermon moving forward a little bit where he has like his dizzy spell and he faints, right? Like all these little clues that paired with what happens at the end and the clues that we get from Bev and the poison.
Speaker: I'm thinking she's trying to figure out what the dose should be like. She's trying. She tried with the dog and it worked. So she's trying to figure out the dosage for father Paul.
Speaker: Because he's not supposed to be sick. Nobody is supposed to be sick. I think there's a couple things going on.
Speaker: I think what we see at the end
Speaker: of his AA meeting, when as this the second the doors close, he yeah Yeah. That's what happens. And then he busts into that the, um the, the Beverly's meeting with the mayor and his wife.
Speaker: And then what happens there? I think that's related to what Bev Beverly did. Oh yeah. I think, I think what happened at the end of his first sermon in the very beginning is completely unrelated as as far as what I can remember anyway. Okay. And it's because he's not partaking
Speaker: of what he should be in order to stay that way.
Speaker: So your theory is, is they have to have a continuous intake. I think so.
Speaker: I'm going to disagree. Okay. I honestly can't remember. So I'm excited to, Yeah. The thing is, is they don't explain it. They don't ever come out and explain it.
Speaker: We have to take these clues and figure it out for ourselves. Yeah. um Which is one of the reasons why we like this show, honestly. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. um
Speaker: ah I'll get into that right after we finish the what happened. so Perfect. Climax. Climax is all about confrontation and what happens in the confrontation. And one of the biggest confrontations of the episode, already mentioned it. It's when Lisa confronts Joe about her accident and the miracle of her healing.
Speaker: And she claims that she forgives him as much as she, as angry as she is at him. And I will let you take it away because it seems like you had a lot to say about this, this scene.
Speaker: I just, I love the emotion in the scene. um you see Joe completely break that moment. She says, but I forgive you. Like everything she says up to that, he's like, I know I deserve it. I deserve it. And he's taking it on.
Speaker: And then she says, and I forgive you. and it just breaks him. And his performance was so good. Like I can imagine that they were emotionally drained after filming a scene like that.
Speaker: honestly that's a lot it's a lot it is and i really like the the moment he opens the door we don't see her but we see his reaction to her and he just jumps back and so his reaction to this girl at his door he just i don't know it was such a cool detail it was like yeah it was awesome it's so good yeah
Speaker: But it it perfectly encapsulates...
Speaker: i don't know what I'm trying to say. i just I really enjoyed how she was completely honest with him. And she was like, hey, I i am so angry at you. And I wish that I could hurt you as much as you hurt me.
Speaker: Because I was just so angry at what you did. But regardless of all that, I still forgive you. And it's just, it's,
Speaker: it it it feels like it's coming from a place of just wanting to be over it already and not wanting to move past it.
Speaker: and And not a I forgive you because I'm the bigger person because I'm better than you kind of thing. It's like I forgive you. Let's let just leave it all behind us, that kind of thing, you know?
Speaker: Right. Yeah.
Speaker: Another confrontation that we have in this episode is Sheriff and Bev are having an argument about handing out Bibles at school. And she claims that she's tolerant about different religions. like She's like, I wouldn't have a problem if um like we someone quoted the Quran as long as it was vetted or like it was approved beforehand.
Speaker: ah But she just makes these backhanded remarks about Islam. And in the end, it feels like she's won the argument because she uses the excuses of the miracles and the religious revival to honestly further alienate the sheriff and his his kid yeah and she gets an applause she gets applause for it yeah yeah and i love how that scene shows the difference between that people who are religious but
Speaker: aren't zealous about it you know like aaron aaron is religious and we know she's been going to church for a while now and she's she's into it again but she takes the side of the sheriff and she's like honestly it's a public school we shouldn't be doing that right did you see ah Bev's expression and it was so subtle when Aaron first jumps in and interrupts Bev and Bev turns to her and just gives her a look that nobody else would notice but you could just see like the fury just and she lets her talk for like one and a half sentences and then continues on with what she was saying was like oh my gosh It's so good.
Speaker: It's so good. She's terrifying. So subtle and like realistic and perfect. Yeah. Because it's it's just enough to be where like, oh, I know someone who's kind of like that.
Speaker: But not not enough to be like, oh, that's way over the top. That's like too much. That's like a caricature. Right. Yeah. Right.
Speaker: um Another sort of confrontation and conflict that we get in this episode is the confrontation between the sheriff and his son about him wanting to go to St. Patrick's.
Speaker: And his son is is like the rest of the town, getting caught up and swept up in the the miracles and the, the fervor of of what's happening and wanting to be a part of it.
Speaker: Um, and he just wants to go check it out as what he says. And his dad is like, no that's not, that's not, that's not was what, that's not what's going to happen.
Speaker: Um, and it, he starts going into it and it feels like it's, it's coming from a personal place and a place of pain and hurt because he's, he talks about his wife and how he watchtt had to watch her go through cancer. And and then he further says, if God chose to spare some and not others, and then he says, that's not how God works.
Speaker: It's not magic.
Speaker: So I love how we're getting all these different sort of sorts of views about what are miracles? are Do they happen? and And the show is not giving us an answer. It's just letting us think about these things.
Speaker: yeah
Speaker: ah And this final sort of,
Speaker: piece of ah of the climax that leads into falling action is that we're we're getting flashback. we Sorry, before that, Bev is having a meeting with the pastor, not the pastor, the um ah mayor and his wife about trying to get
Speaker: them to spread a word about like a community event or something and father Paul bursts into the room and in quotation marks dies right there and he's got like blood coming out of his mouth and he's just that's like foaming and it looks oddly familiar to what happened to the dog and he just dies That's a horrific scene.
Speaker: is so rough to watch that. Yeah. And his eyes are like all red and just, oh.
Speaker: And then we get a flashback. And in this flashback, Monsignor Pruitt was in this darkness, in this ancient ruin or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker: And we see the figure the shadows and it attacks him and it's got wings and it's got this like gray sort of color body.
Speaker: And, um, it, it's, it's called forward. It's a vampire. It's just straight up a vampire. It's, but i want what I like is it's a cool, like visual interpretation of what a vampire is. It's like different.
Speaker: I really like it. Um, but Monsignor Pruitt is attacked by this vampire and it sucks his blood. um, as it's done and draws itself up, we see a little like halo around the vampire as Monsignor Pruitt kind of like calls it an angel, which I thought was a really cool touch.
Speaker: And then after that, the vampire gives him the blood, gives Monsignor Pruitt the blood from vampire.
Speaker: Go ahead. No, you're good. Okay. And then we go into the resolution where it's revealed that Monsignor Pruitt is Paul Hill, Father Paul.
Speaker: They are one and the same. He wakes after being attacked and he's young again. and you in sort in the sort of kind of narration that we're getting, he's like, I have to bring this back to the people who need it the most, this miracle back to people who need it most.
Speaker: And he is resurrect. And then he's resurrected and, um
Speaker: I guess the present time, what we just saw, we saw him die from some sort of poison or something. And now he's alive again. And that's the end of the episode.
Speaker: Do you have anything you wanted to add real quick?
Speaker: um
Speaker: It was, it was a really uncomfortable scene.
Speaker: with the vampire.
Speaker: And we had posed the question before, like, why do you think he interpreted this attack the way he did?
Speaker: Because the first time watching this, I was horrified because it's so sacrilegious and it's so wrong to equate the sacredness that is...
Speaker: That it is. Right? In religion. And equate it to like a literal sense of for this vampire. And it fits. And it's just icky.
Speaker: Like a parasite. Right. Yeah. Well, in and the Bible and in religion, Christianity, it's, this is my blood, take it, right? This is my flesh, take it and it will save you, I will save you, right?
Speaker: And it's taking it into a more literal sense instead of the the figurative symbolic sense that it is. Right. We take that in remembrance, the communion, the sacrament, we take that in remembrance. And now this is turning it into like a literal thing, but it's horror.
Speaker: hmm. So watching it the first time I was like horrified. I hated it. And I still hate it. still hate it. Right. Now you could say could, you can make the argument and I'm not going to disagree with anybody that makes this argument that this is a show that should be avoided. It is not for everybody. And that's okay.
Speaker: Um, What I appreciate about the show is that this is something that happens within the show. It is't it is not the show saying that that's what it is. Does make sense? It's exploring it.
Speaker: If this old demented man has this experience, right? And then all of this fallout because of it. So... The question, back to the question, why would he interpret it this way?
Speaker: Right? As a miracle, yeah. As a miracle. Our minds do funny things in the in the moment when things are terrifying and confusing. Our mind is trying to find meaning and justification and understanding.
Speaker: So he's got, he's dementia, right? He has Alzheimer's or whatever kind of dementia he has. He's trying to figure out what is this that's happening and he's dedicated his whole life to the church.
Speaker: So that's in his mind in that moment of terror is what he's equating it to. And immediately he's praying in the moment and he's praying out loud. And I,
Speaker: Watching it again today, I was wondering maybe that's why the vampire what is being stopped and fed him instead of just finishing consuming him. Because there is that moment when he stops, right?
Speaker: And then he feeds him instead of just consuming him. Do think it's because he started praying? I think so. i think he found I think he found him interesting. If you think that he's been alone for millennia, potentially.
Speaker: And here's this being. And of course, you know, the vampire's hungry. But then it it gets interesting. So maybe this is just me guessing, me interpreting. He's like, let's see where this goes. Right? Because he literally follows him.
Speaker: who Let's unpack him into a trunk and take him back overseas. And does what he says.
Speaker: That's what I would do. Be like, yeah. Yes, and? So...
Speaker: i I also saw it as a exploitative, you know, like, oh, this guy probably has a following that means survival for me.
Speaker: But there's that sentience, right? So maybe not just the interest, but he's thinking like, yeah, let's follow this guy yeah and see where this goes for his own advantage. Of course. Yeah.
Speaker: Obviously. yeah But, you know, in that moment, he's he's he's rationalizing it. And to keep himself, his psyche safe, he equates it to a miracle.
Speaker: a miracle that should be shared. he Right. Because in the Bible, it does say when they see angels, they are afraid. And he was terrified. So he's like, oh, of course I'm afraid.
Speaker: Everybody that saw them was afraid.
Speaker: But I, there's there's so many fascinating things about this scene about and about other things.
Speaker: What's whats
Speaker: struck out to me is how, I don't know if this is in the Bible or or or other scripture, but it's like something on along the lines of don't hide your light in a bushel basket or something like that.
Speaker: Yeah, don't don't keep your talents under a bushel. Right, but that's kind of what I was thinking about here because he's like, Oh, I'm going to, have to hide you from the world because they're going say something or or, or, or whatnot, but I have to bring you to my home because there are people who need you there the most.
Speaker: I've got to like hide you away. It's got to be secret and everything like that. And,
Speaker: God doesn't work like that. At least in the Bible, it's not like secretive. It's not, he's not hiding. He's not, he's out in the open. Jesus was out in the open.
Speaker: It was pretty easy to find him most the time. Yeah. So I just, I, I liked that sort of that kind of train of thought as well.
Speaker: Yeah. No, I like that. You um, I also thought there was an interesting comparison between
Speaker: ah literal vampire. who's a, you could look at it as a parasite, like I had mentioned before. And then one of the first things you see in this episode is ah bunch of people after the, the, the sermon are like asking for miracles to happen to them in front of father Paul's like place. He's like, Oh, I'm, I'm sick. Uh, my leg, I got a bum leg. Like heal me, heal me.
Speaker: And it's like all these people who are always wanting more, do something for me, do something for me, heal me. But it's it felt just very selfish and kind of parasitic in that moment.
Speaker: Yeah. You could look at it like that. um But that is human nature when people see an opportunity. And I don't think their intentions were bad in wanting relief. No.
Speaker: And when Jesus was performing his miracles, he didn't.
Speaker: you know I don't know if he ever really said no to those who had had faith in him. Right. that Yeah, that's the other thing that was going through my head. is like ah There was a story of the woman who reached out and touched his Jesus' clothes because she believed as long as she could touch him that she would be healed.
Speaker: Yeah. So it was just all of that was going through my head while watching this episode. It was like, oh, I was, almost stepped into like to Bev Keens. She was like, all these people want is miracles. They don't want to, they don't, they don't believe or like they're not part of the church.
Speaker: They just, they just, they're here for the spectacle. Yeah. she's She's a bit judgmental. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: well speaking about Bev King
Speaker: I know the I think I found like I know the exact moment she poisons him okay because we see her put back the poison in that like sort of montage with the music going on oh by the way the soundtrack for this whole show great so good great So good.
Speaker: We see her fill up a glass of water or what we think is water after the doctor checks him out and says, you need to drink this.
Speaker: Yeah. She takes it from the sink. Yep. Water. Okay. It comes out of the sink. Yep. Yep. Yep. And in the, yes, in the final, in one of the final scenes when Bev is having the meeting with the mayor and his wife at, in Father Paul's house, there's a like like a handyman there working on the faucet saying,
Speaker: we got to make sure that father Paul gets water before i that that's up and running. into the day Yeah. Yes. Yes. why would it have been broken before? Huh?
Speaker: So I think that's the exact moment she poisoned him is when she gave him that glass of water.
Speaker: ah my these hold No, let's let's put it together because I think I'm, I think I'm figuring it out because everything is just clues. Every shot that we see that relates to this is a clue, right?
Speaker: Where she's walking with the poison, she's putting it away. That's a clue, right? So that's the, that's the means, right? The opportunity is that she has access to his house all the time.
Speaker: We see in the shot before he comes in while she's there with the repairman and the mayor, right? That she has access to his food in the fridge. And she mentioned that people are bringing by food and because he was feeling ill and she's thankful, but that's showing us she's got access to everything.
Speaker: Right. So everything's a clue. So that plus the water and the repair.
Speaker: What if my guess, what if he has like his own water supply? And the reason why he was only a little bit sick this time, a little bit sick that time, and then very sick and dies towards the end.
Speaker: Right? Maybe ah she puts it in his water supply.
Speaker: Although that's what I was saying. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But i I don't think that's the moment that caused him to die. Because if we want spoiler alert, folks, at the very end, when people drink it, it's pretty instantaneous.
Speaker: So I think, okay, and i I don't remember if at the AA meeting with Riley and Joe, I think I remember him having water.
Speaker: I'd have to go back and see, but I swear he had like something on the ground and he was drinking from it. If it was a bottle of water, if it was a cup, if it was something, but that's just, I don't know if I'm just making it up, but that would be the immediate like
Speaker: effect, cause and effect. Right. There's not really a delay, but that would explain like the different, um
Speaker: the more mild reaction you know when he fainted felt dizzy because those two times didn't kill him so it obviously wasn't as much but it was always close to a time maybe when he had been having some water I didn't pay attention to what he was drinking the whole time well he I don't see anything he you
Speaker: I'm going back through it right now. He's he's not yeah drinking anything. He doesn't have a cup in his hands, but sort of near the end of that scene, that there is a styrofoam cup by his bags. In the community center? In the community center, but you never see him.
Speaker: Then that means, that clue would mean that it was like recent. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Um, anyway. Yep. It was, she was messing with his water. Good job. So because of that, she, because she's messing with this water,
Speaker: do you think, cause we so obviously see the moment where she's like, she connects the dots and she's like, Oh, you're Monsignor Pruitt. okay Is she,
Speaker: is this reaction from her? Is it a, almost a self-defense is like, you are either an imposter or like, this is wrong or something. And like tries to kill him.
Speaker: Or do you think it's her sort of trying to
Speaker: have her own sort of like perverted miracle or manufacturer, a miracle about him coming back to life. Cause she knows, Something else is going on or she's testing a hypothesis or something.
Speaker: Okay. Here's what I think. I think she doesn't know that it was him until she sees that picture after he died. No, it's, it's before that. What do you mean? it's ah It's at the very beginning.
Speaker: So at the very beginning, yeah, at the very beginning, he, he has the, he runs right out after. Hold on.
Speaker: He runs to the house and she goes after him like and calls after him and then looks around and sees that. And we don't see what it is that she saw until the very end.
Speaker: Okay, hold on. I'm going through. i believe you. I'm just, I want to see what you saw. Oh, no, yeah, I totally we get it. There's the meeting.
Speaker: He's sick, she follows him. Okay.
Speaker: He's in the back.
Speaker: This is at four minutes, four and a half minutes.
Speaker: Okay, there's the clipping on the wall.
Speaker: She's noticing it. Okay. There we go. All right.
Speaker: Okay. Yes. Yeah. so I don't know if the poison is is like ah
Speaker: It's obviously a reaction after seeing that, but I don't know if it's because it's like, ah oh she wants to see if he's real. no really I got to get in her head.
Speaker: I got to. Okay. This is what I think she's doing. This is what I think she's doing with father Pruitt being old and adult. She had the power. She was in charge. She was using the money how she wanted to.
Speaker: right? And it was advantageous for her because he didn't know what was going on. So she was the one in charge. So she's very protective over him. She's the one that's in charge of him also because she gets to keep that control, right?
Speaker: And we see that her displaying that control in the community. That's how know that's how she was with Father Pruitt, right? So all of a sudden this new guy comes in, he's temporary.
Speaker: He's just, you know, here for a time until Father Pruitt comes back. He's not a problem, not a threat. Right. Right. And then she, okay, you're right. So when she notices that it is Father Pruitt and this dude isn't going anywhere and he's lucid and smart.
Speaker: And young again. So it's going to be young. he's going to be there a while. Right. She's going to lose her control. She's going to lose her money that she takes.
Speaker: you know, obviously has has had access to for years.
Speaker: So her her sweet, cushy little, you know, however she was living her life and holding power over the community is now temporary. So yeah, I think that's why she wanted to get rid of him.
Speaker: But she also is very advantageous in everything. Yep. So when he dies, she's probably thinking how lucky that I have witnesses that it's not, you know, going to come back to me.
Speaker: Right. But in that moment, she, when he wakes up and you see when she switches gears and she's like a miracle, amazing. And she's on board for all of it.
Speaker: I, I can, yeah, a hundred percent. That's a, that's a really good take. And i
Speaker: I don't know if there's like, ah she would have any forethought and it was like playing like 3d checkers or something. It was like, Hey, I'm going to try to take him out. But if this, if there's like something else going on, if there's some other miracle going on, then i don't think she would have, this is just going to strengthen it more. No.
Speaker: no No. Okay. Nope. I think she's just that good in, in going with it. Okay. That's why she's got, yeah that's why you got to pay attention to like her micro expressions throughout the whole thing. Cause you can literally read her thoughts if you pay attention.
Speaker: And that's like the, not the theme of the show, but you got to pay attention. Yeah. Like every single thing in the show means something. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Okay. you just You just watch. You can watch the wheels turn. And like when what happens next happens and she goes, i think she literally goes, okay.
Speaker: Right? If you haven't seen the next episode. I haven't yet. I haven't. Oh, I just have to put it out there before I forget. It is so disturbing and scary.
Speaker: um ah The end of the next episode. think I know what happens at the end of the next episode. it's It's really bad. i don't get shocked easily. And I kind of screamed at this shot because it's it's just so abrupt and disturbing and gross.
Speaker: um Maybe I'll find a timestamp for you to skip. Not you, but anybody in the... yeah Anybody else that's planning on watching the next episode, if you haven't yet, it's really bad.
Speaker: There's my disclaimer. ah hate it. I hate it so much. It's terrible.
Speaker: Well,
Speaker: i had some I was going to say something. Oh, the jump scares. were going to talk about the jump scares as well. The only jump scare that I have is that the sheriff sees a face in the window after he turns off the light.
Speaker: That was, yep. That was a number two. I completely forgot what number one is, but the third one is when father Paul wakes up.
Speaker: Okay. At the end. When he wakes up. I'll count that one as well. Okay, let me work on getting a timestamp for that moment. so sorry.
Speaker: so sorry I don't want to see it again.
Speaker: I can do it then. i watch it Well, I kind of want to put it here just in case
Speaker: anybody's watching it in real time. um my gosh. Okay, hold on. Also, when I was trying to find like a screenshot for the thumbnail for the for episode four, it that shot kept coming up over and over. So I hopefully I'm a little more desensitized to it.
Speaker: Okay, hold on. It's at 40 minutes. Hold on. That's 40 minutes, 41. 42.
Speaker: forty two
Speaker: forty between 42 and 43. Okay. Yeah. So
Speaker: it's shocking.
Speaker: It's the natural conclusion to the situation. Right. I still hate it. still hate it. Yeah.
Speaker: Anyway, we're gonna we're going to move on to questions. Okay. Our book club questions. I have not been prepared, uh-oh.
Speaker: am barely prepared either, so we're just going to this together. have no idea what you're going to ask me.
Speaker: How do you think the episode plays with the idea of miracles and the supernatural?
Speaker: Do you think the show, like a ah ah question you could help with that is, do you think the show is asking us to reconsider how we read, yeah read how we define a miracle? Yeah. It's asking you to really decide what is a miracle.
Speaker: Or is it, you know, taking Lisa, for example, they throw out all the explanations for that, that it's a miracle that she healed over time. um So they give a scientific reason.
Speaker: And people believe it's a miracle. And the parents have decided not to take her to the mainland for any testing to confirm anything. They're just happy about.
Speaker: ah what it is so we don't get that answer right except for what we as the audience already know right so yeah it it really is exploring exploring that yeah supernatural miracles and our miracle supernatural like well how do you define supernatural right exactly
Speaker: I think that's like the theme of this episode is like miracles versus supernatural versus science, you know, because we have that whole kind of conversation with Riley in the very beginning with him saying, oh, like it's, it, this kind of thing has happened before, like misdiagnosis, um, spine can heal over time, that kind of thing.
Speaker: ah Explaining away what could be a miracle, you know? Right. And if something heals over time, is that not a miracle? is Exactly.
Speaker: Is it God's hand at play or is is it his work? Is he doing it? Right. So um in terms of sort of characters and their motivation,
Speaker: What do you think? Nevermind. You already answered that. I was going to ask, what do you think it motivates Beverly's actions? But you already power, power, and money, power, pride, and money.
Speaker: Yeah. Power, pride, and money control, control. Do you think,
Speaker: what do you think came first for her? Was it, was it the religion? And then from that came the, Oh, I have some sort of power because of this.
Speaker: And me see if I can use it. Or do you think it was, ah
Speaker: I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to ask. No, I do. Like, when did she, like, what's her origin as far as how she became like that?
Speaker: We get a context clue from, think it's from Joe when he's talking to the sheriff, I think in the last episode where the sheriff is, you know, coming to talk to him about what happened to Pike.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. And he's basically saying like, I believe you about Bev. I know people like her, but I can't prove anything. And I'm sorry.
Speaker: ah ah but Joe makes a statement in that conversation where he's like, I've known her since grade school. She's always been like this. She's always, perot she's probably always found something in her life to use to feel superior to others. And honestly, I've, I've known people not to this extreme, but like that where, and in the case where I, I know somebody like this from childhood, I i like haven't reconnected with her in adulthood. So I don't know.
Speaker: I don't know how she is now. I really don't. And I'm not going to make any assumptions. But as a kid and an adolescent, her home life was so bad that she overcompensated in making everything in her school and church life look better than everybody else.
Speaker: And she would use little things to kind of climb up a little bit higher than you and make sure that you knew it.
Speaker: who 20 years later, i don't know. I don't know. She's got a, far as far you know, the magic of Facebook, she's got a great job, great family.
Speaker: Looks like her kids are doing great, good marriage. So I just, I'm going to, you know, assume that everything, it worked out really good for her. So I, I don't know how things are, but anyway, back to the show.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: yeah I think that's a personality trait she kind of always had and where it stemmed from childhood, I guess. Because that's where it all comes from, doesn't it?
Speaker: and I like that this show is is not again not being biased one way or the other. It's not saying, hey, this is what all religious people are like.
Speaker: It's just saying, this is what you will you will find people like this who are like zealots and use wield it as a weapon like wield faith as weapon almost And a lot of times those are the people that are the biggest sinners, but they just hide it.
Speaker: Exactly. Or they justify it as to convincing themselves that it's not. Yeah. Because they're so more special. They're more important. They're more this or that.
Speaker: But i on and on that, I appreciate this show's...
Speaker: wide variety of all types of religious people that you're going to find, you know, there's the people that truly live it in their heart. And you can tell, like you can tell that Riley's parents, they're good people and they're welcoming people.
Speaker: Right. And then Bev Keen is at the opposite end of that spectrum. yeah And it's just, it's, it's, you know, everybody falls somewhere in that, in this community, I think.
Speaker: But I like that it doesn't, it doesn't try to have a message of religion is good. Religion is bad. It's, this is what it is, right? These are people. This is reality.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And I love that. This is a supernatural show. It's a horror show.
Speaker: But it's, it's based in reality. And I think, like we said it before, but that's just where Flanagan shines, you know? Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker: So after witnessing the unexplained healing of Lisa and the return of father Paul or, um, and that, that big,
Speaker: Miracle. Imagine that you are in that congregation. How are you reacting? What are you doing? Are you going to, are you filled with like faith or like suspicion?
Speaker: I think I would have fallen to the faith side.
Speaker: we're going to honest and candid, I would have deferred to the faith side. And because I,
Speaker: even if there was a medical reason for it, it just is another example of how God is good and what a blessing. Right.
Speaker: Yeah. I like it. I like appreciate your honesty.
Speaker: Honestly, I probably would too. Yeah. It's like, how do how do you explain that? Like, you know that person. Right. Like, you grew up with them. Or you've seen them grow up.
Speaker: And you've seen everything that happened.
Speaker: So, yeah. it' It'd be hard not to have faith in that. You know? Yeah. It would. Which is why everyone starts showing up to church again. but Everyone starts going.
Speaker: I think if Bev Cain could have orchestrated something like that to get more people to attend, she would have. Yeah. i
Speaker: As a final sort of question for, for today.
Speaker: What kind of examples in this episode are there of faith being used positively and harmfully?
Speaker: Can't just ask me deep question like that on the fly.
Speaker: You're right. I'm sorry. Okay. Um, ask it again, because I think I have an answer. i just want to make sure it's within the scope. Okay. So what examples in this episode are there of faith being used positively and harmfully?
Speaker: Faith being used. hmm.
Speaker: I don't know I can say how faith is being used.
Speaker: Because how do you use faith harmfully? How do use it positively? It's such a personal subjective experience.
Speaker: Well, I would say. what are your thoughts? Because maybe I can. In terms of harmfully, think Bev is using it harmfully in that school meeting because she's saying, look, look at all these miracles that are happening. Look at the goodness that's happening.
Speaker: because like out of our church, why are you so afraid that your son wants to participate or be a part or, um, that the community wants to be a part of something like that?
Speaker: You know, at least that's not what she's specifically saying, but to me, that's what it, that's what it feels like. She's like, Hey, this is happening now and you're, you're going to be left out of it Right.
Speaker: um Like you're going to, you're not going to have access to these miracles, to this, and these ah blessings that are happening because they're not part of us.
Speaker: And she's, it feels like weaponizing she's weaponizing faith. She's weaponizing that for sure. I think an outcome and that is positive from the experiences that have happened so far when Lisa confronts Joe, tears him down, brutally honest with him, lets him know everything she's been kept pent up inside her, and then chooses to forgive him and quotes scripture to him. Right?
Speaker: um And then he decides he does not want to drink anymore. think that's a positive effect that it's had so far.
Speaker: um
Speaker: So the ripples can be positive. And then people can, like Bev, can use it. And be, you know, subjectively negative.
Speaker: I mean, the community is like applaud to her rant at that meeting because that was, she was, you know, parroting all of their views, which that's, that's gotta be a frustrating dynamic in the, the small community, honestly, like, because there's such blurred lines between, you know, the public school system, which has very strict rules and what she said.
Speaker: about as a teacher she'll share her faith i was like no you're and you're not you're not allowed to do that you can explain hey this is what Christianity believes as a teacher you can you can say this is what this faith believes this is what that faith this is what you know Jewish people believe this is what the Muslims believe but you can't sit there and say what your personal belief is and why or explain it or anything like that but
Speaker: So beliefs, yeah, can be can be shared positively and can also be used um
Speaker: negatively to judge people or to tear people down or to posture yourself higher. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Well, do you have anything else for this episode? That was a great answer. And i think i've you've been at great sport and answered all of the questions that I had. Those are such good questions.
Speaker: Honestly, i I felt like this episode was especially deep in sort of starting to explore those like deeper, deeper themes of like miracles and faith and All that kind of stuff. And I think it's just going to get deeper from here.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Do you have any last minute things? Because that's all I had. I i ah just have Corey's comments. I'm ready for Corey's comments. Okay. Here we go.
Speaker: Will you tell me what you thought about episode three?
Speaker: Episode three.
Speaker: okay hold on just so you know by the time like we watch this it's like the end of the day and he's exhausted so he's like pausing and thinking or yawning okay back to it i thought it was that's where everything where you start to see the direction of where everything's going okay um
Speaker: um Is that the old priest but young? Yes. ah that That was that story from the cave. Yeah. Yeah, he was telling his experience.
Speaker: So when did he show up in the town before, before he was, when he was old? So when he was doing his confessional, that was before he introduced himself to the congregation. Well, sure. Right. Right.
Speaker: Yeah, but, like, wouldn't the congregation know who he was? Because didn't wasn't he there when he was... Yeah, but he was really old. They didn't know him when he was younger? And he had a beard. And he had a beard. Yeah.
Speaker: Okay. Most of the older population is... I think the only elderly person is the doctor's mother. She would know. She would know. Right.
Speaker: She would have recognized him. And that's why it went, that's why it cut to that little snippet of the clip, because it looked like him. The newspaper? Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. All right. And, and ah thought that was very powerful of that young lady to go forgive him.
Speaker: Yeah. That was kind of amazing, actually. And
Speaker: yeah that's have to is that your favorite that was seen that was my favorite scene yeah when yeah for sure i mean gosh that took a lot to for her to do that you know yeah So you said this episode is laying out kind of where the series is going. Where do you think it's going based on what you've seen so far?
Speaker: Well, I think it's going to be exactly like his vision, like his experience in the cave. He is going, he feels he needs to help everybody experience that.
Speaker: So he's probably going to turn everybody into vampires. Cool.
Speaker: I cannot wait to see Corey
Speaker: is right or not.
Speaker: We'll to see where it goes. Yep. And you can join us next time. We'll see you next week. Thank you guys for joining us. Thank you. Bye. a
