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Bisexual Married Men: Charles
3.8k Plays1 year ago
Welcome back to this special series on bisexual men who are married to women! This week I interviewed Charles, another subject in my new oral history book, Bisexual Married Men: Stories of Relationships, Acceptance, and Authenticity – out now! Charles' story is unique and layered, but it also features common threads that many Bi+ men have experienced – though we often feel like we’re alone.
There are 13 minutes of bonus content with Charles only on my Patreon -- enjoy! (Note: there is no video of Charles for this episode.)
Stay tuned for more interviews with Bi+ married men weekly in December! Thanks for listening and supporting my work.
Visit my website to learn more about the book, press, and events
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Transcript
Introduction to Two Bye Guys and Charles
00:00:00
Speaker
🎵
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello everybody, welcome back to Two Bye Guys, continuing this series about bisexual married men, which is related to my book, Bisexual Married Men, Stories of Relationships, Acceptance, and Authenticity. I'm very excited today to be joined by the first oral history chapter interviewee in my book. His name in the book is Gregory, I believe, is that right?
00:00:37
Speaker
But his real name is Charles, so welcome to Two Bye Guys. Charles, nice to see you. It's good to see you too. Thanks for having me on here.
00:00:47
Speaker
Yeah, I'm excited to chat with you again. And I'm so excited you're in the book. Like, you were one of the last people to be included, and you ended up as chapter one of the interviews. And we met at by request. And as when I told you about this project, and I had like one or basically, you know, one, maybe one or two more interviews I needed, and you fit the bill, and we're happy to do it.
Charles' Experience as a Bisexual Married Man
00:01:15
Speaker
And I'm so glad it worked out.
00:01:17
Speaker
Same. I was really so excited that you were doing the, that you were embarking on the project, you know, hearing about it. And, you know, it sort of really fed into the reason why I go to buy requests, right? To have a place to sort of talk about what it means to be a buy man and a buy man who's married and
00:01:41
Speaker
you know, why and how that fits into my life. And so it was, it was a really, I was really glad that you were working on the project. Cool. I'm so excited to share it with everyone.
00:01:53
Speaker
It's interesting, now that I'm here with you, this isn't on my list of questions, but I didn't know what order I would put them in. And then I think part of why I decided to put yours first is it really just encompassed a lot of different things that many people I think have been through.
00:02:14
Speaker
your unique situation. Your story is quite unique, especially your childhood and your family, and there's lots of interesting stuff in there. But the ways that different things connected back to your sexuality and the ways that you came out, I just thought were really a good intro to this experience and a good representation. I'm curious, when you read it back, when I sent you the chapter and you read it back, how did that feel reading it?
00:02:45
Speaker
or what went through your mind? The first thing that went through my mind was like, wow, Robert Lee made my story sound really pretty good. So I was really grateful for that. But it's really helpful to really see my story reflected back at me. And it's a lot of things that
00:03:08
Speaker
you know, I think about obviously all the time that I experienced, have experienced, but, you know, to sort of see myself reflected back at me through someone else's perspective, right? Taking the things that we talked about, but really you using, you know, your experience and your talent as a writer to sort of bring that back,
00:03:37
Speaker
I actually was really humbled in a way. You know, I've been doing a lot of writing recently. And one of the things that I've been thinking, you know, just for myself, not playing to be a writer, but one of the things that I've been really thinking about is this concept of who wants to hear your story, right? Like your story.
00:04:05
Speaker
you know, is your story unique enough to be compelling? And can people learn things from you? You know, I get very self-conscious about that. Like, you know, I haven't done anything monumental or changed the world in any way. And so to sort of see me there and to think about it in the context of the larger book was very humbling. And I was like, oh, this is really nice.
00:04:33
Speaker
Yeah, that is really interesting. And I think about that a lot too of what stories in me are vital to share and what's the audience for them and who's caring about this. And I think these stories are so hidden and invisible that there is a real need to share them. Even when you talk about yourself, maybe it sounds like
00:05:01
Speaker
not the most exciting story in the world. I'm not thinking of yours specifically, but it's just like life stuff. But actually, there's a lot of challenges and joys and
00:05:18
Speaker
and conflict and solutions and so many other people going through similar things that would benefit from just seeing that and hearing about it, even if it seems kind of normal. So yeah, I'm excited you shared it.
Bisexual Awakening and Relationship Dynamics
00:05:36
Speaker
Can you tell us like so there's gonna be a lot more in the book everyone should read this chapter but Give us the cliff notes of like how did you realize you were by what was your your bisexual journey? Well, I think I I really knew from a Pretty young age certainly in my teens that I was attracted to men but you know, I was in my younger
00:06:06
Speaker
age, I was a serial monogamous, I dated, you know, women for years. And then, you know, then I would, we would break up and then I would date another woman for years. And so it was just never a thing that I acted on. It was funny, because I was looking as an aside recently, I was looking over the Black Friday weekend, doing some shopping, and I was looking for some
00:06:34
Speaker
you know, fun underwear to wear to, you know, parties and events and stuff. And then I was like, oh, and then in my mind popped international male catalog, right? And it was this, if you don't know what it is in the nineties, it was this, you know, men's underwear catalog, like an actual catalog that you got. And I remember, uh, like getting it and like, that was one of those like sort of,
00:07:03
Speaker
without actually having pornography, right? Like you could see really hot guys in sex underwear, right? Like kind of thing. So that was always, you know, since I was a teenager thing, and it really wasn't until college and right after college that, you know, I actually had any opportunity to do anything sexual with a man.
00:07:31
Speaker
And I just knew, you know, it was so comfortable because I knew so many queer folks in college and after college, you know, I moved to San Francisco. And so I just felt comfortable. And most of my friends kind of thought it was a thing that was going to happen with me anyway. They were just waiting, you know. And so, you know, that's really how it,
00:08:01
Speaker
sort of just developed over time. It's funny you mentioned the underwear catalog. You're not the first person in this interview series even to mention underwear ads as a bi awakening. For me it was the bags from Abercrombie and Fitch.
00:08:21
Speaker
And the bags always had usually men and women in very little clothing. And I would save the bags and look at them. And in my head, I was like, oh, I'm attracted to the women. And the guys are just there. But looking back, I was attracted to everyone on those bags.
00:08:43
Speaker
Did you struggle with accepting this about yourself at any point, or was it natural when you started exploring it? Well, I mean, when I started exploring it, it felt natural. But I will say, right, because I had these long-standing, really intense relationships with women,
00:09:09
Speaker
Um, it was easy for me to not engage with that. Right. And at that time, I mean, not that it's super easy now to, to live your own truth in terms of your sexuality. Um, but it's easier than it was in the eighties and nineties. Right. You know, and I probably had read like the Kinsey report and the height report and all those things. And I was like, Oh, you know, there's some,
00:09:40
Speaker
level of it being natural to find both sexes attractive, right? There's nothing inherently different, you know, or special about that. And, you know, and I really do love these women and I'm so into them sexually and everything else that it was sort of just like an easy thing to not engage with. You know, it was sort of a cop out almost in the end to think about like, oh, you know, whatever.
00:10:10
Speaker
And like I said, I just was probably in the most comfortable environment to come out with friends of mine, many of whom were queer in San Francisco.
00:10:26
Speaker
running a theater company is like, Jesus, could I make it any more comfortable, right? To start exploring that. And almost then it was like, well, I can, you know,
00:10:45
Speaker
come out as by or own up to this because, um, then I'll be even cooler to all these people. If you're running a theater company in San Francisco, it's probably weird to be straight. Yeah. You know, the boring guys, I was like, hold on, I'm not quite, quite as vanilla as you think. So, um, so yeah, it was, it was once that happened, then it was just,
00:11:15
Speaker
easy. Cool. And then how out were you when you met your wife? And if you could tell us a little bit about how your sexuality has factored into that relationship? Well, it's interesting, because at the point at time when I met my wife, I was in a place where I wasn't really dating period. You know, I had just
00:11:43
Speaker
I'm trying to get my timeline straight. Because at this point, I could have been together for so long. It's like BC and AD. I barely remember a time before that. How long have you been together? Just about 20 years. Wow, cool. Yeah. But I was in a period of really just not dating. I was working a lot. And for whatever reason, I just wasn't in that.
00:12:13
Speaker
headspace. And we met at work, started working there. You know, so I wasn't, it wasn't like, it's, this is one of the things that I often think about still now, and I talk about, we, we all this talk about by request is like, you know, at what point does it does being by matter that you bring it up, right? Like, and it's a thing that, you know, as I was
00:12:42
Speaker
going into any relationship, I wanted to make sure that whomever the person was would know, right? But do you lead with that? Do you bring it up for months? Like, what is the appropriate time? And, you know, if the contour of your relationship are going to be monogamous, right? Like, do you even need to bring it like, what is it going to
00:13:09
Speaker
matter. But to me, it was always important to at least have that level of authenticity for myself, right? So it was less of, oh, you need to know this about me for you is more that I want you to know this about me for me. So that, you know, like, if I want to say, we're watching a movie and we're like, Oh my God, they're both so hot, or just whatever dumb thing, right? Like, I don't want to have to be
00:13:38
Speaker
closeted to the person who I'm sharing my life with, right? Like just seemed, it seems destructive to me and to the relationship. So that was, I'm trying to remember how early on. I mean, I think I sort of brought it up initially nonchalantly and just sort of like talking about, you know, various relationships and experiences I had and then being like, oh yeah, you know,
00:14:08
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I didn't tell you about that before. Oh, yeah. Like, you know, it was a little bit of a I don't want to say an adjustment, but like, you know, that had to sink in. You kind of eased into coming out in a way. Yeah, yeah.
Challenges of Sharing Bisexuality
00:14:31
Speaker
And, you know, and, oh, you know, my whole thing was like, I'm just gonna say this, right? Like, if we're talking about past relationships, I'm just gonna say this.
00:14:38
Speaker
like it was normal because you know what, it's normal. You know, and let's see how that goes over. And again, that was a way of thinking for everyone who reads the chapter in the book that was sort of given to me by my love of Hello Kitty, right? Like just own it. Like if, if, if
00:15:01
Speaker
you love it and it's who you are, just wear it on your sleeve or just approach it like it's normal. And you know what, nine times out of 10 people will be like, oh yeah. And that's what happened. Yeah. Do you still have some hesitation around like it being totally normal? Because you said that and I hear you, but you laughed at what you said. Like what goes through your mind when you think about that?
00:15:29
Speaker
Well, it's funny because I do, one of the things that I still am working on is trying to separate my sexuality from sexual activity, right? And one of the things I often think about is like, you know, now bringing it up with someone I'm going to be in a relationship with,
00:15:58
Speaker
or someone who's a really good friend of mine is one thing. But like, you know, when I think about it in terms of work and colleagues and, you know, and I work in education at a school, like, you know, my whole thing is like, well, what my sex life is should stay out of school. But like, because, and I think about this, I go back and forth about this, it's really complicated. I don't go around telling people like, oh, hey, I'm straight, right? Like, or like, no one does that, right?
00:16:26
Speaker
You know, when people know I'm married and I feel like in certain contexts, that's all you need to know. But then at the same time, I sometimes feel like, well, am I, you know, you get in your head. It's like, why am I ashamed of this? Am I hiding it? It's like, well, no, it's just like, what is the reason I'm bringing this up in this context? Right. But at the same time, like I went to some Halloween parties and met some people and, you know,
00:16:55
Speaker
if it comes up in conversation, I have no problem. Like, oh, yeah, like, you know, because, you know, it makes sense in that context. So it still seems complicated because because the only way to not the only way I don't want to say that that's that's incorrect. But one of the predominant ways that it would that being by would manifest itself for me right now is if, you know,
00:17:26
Speaker
I'm speaking about an attraction to about a man or having some sort of sexual interaction with a man. And I just don't feel like that's everyone doesn't need to know about all of those things about me all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Same, you know, about any
00:17:44
Speaker
relationship I would have with a woman. Right, right. It makes a lot of sense. And it's like all the issues you're talking about, it's like, you can see both sides of the coin and neither one is 100% correct. And you're finding like, where is the balance of
00:18:00
Speaker
This is important to me and you want to be visible when appropriate, but also not necessarily be talking about sexuality to everyone you meet. That is kind of the struggle for bi people because it can be erased and invisible when you're married to a woman. So it's like, when is it important to share? When do you not want to be invisible?
00:18:33
Speaker
Do you remember how your wife reacted at the time or then, and then beyond that, what's, what's her view? Yeah. I mean, I definitely, um, remember, I mean, there was that moment of, I think a little bit of shock, right? A surprise like, Oh, like I was not expecting that. Um, and I do, you know, she had, and I hate putting, attributing,
00:19:03
Speaker
motivation and feelings to people when they can't do it themselves. But I do think that there was that little bit of fear that people who have bifolks as partners of like, well, does that mean you're gonna need to cheat on me or exercise that part of your sexuality if we're in a committed relationship, right? So it goes pretty quickly to that worry.
00:19:33
Speaker
Right? You know, and I think, you know, so many of us experience that, whether or not you're, you know, if I was in a relationship with a man, there would be that sort of thing. And, you know, it was just sort of like, well, will you need to sort of indulge in, in like, you know, your attraction to the, for men, you know, is that a thing that is,
00:20:02
Speaker
um, you know, a necessity, right. And, and I think, you know, and it was not for me, um, at all, honestly. Um, but you know, that's a fear that comes up. And, you know, we talk about this in, you know, in buyer requests almost every month, you know, um, someone, you know, you think about that and, um,
00:20:29
Speaker
And if you're in a relationship with them, you know, if you're a man in a relationship with a man, like how they, you know, might think, oh, this is, you're going to leave me for a woman as soon as you, you know, you get the first opportunity. And, you know, there's always that sort of stigma, not always, but there's often that stigma that, you know, being bi correlates to being somehow, um,
00:20:58
Speaker
untrustworthy or that you're going to cheat or duplicitous or something or greedy or something like that. So how did you guys work through that? Was was it a long struggle? No, it wasn't a struggle at all. You know, and and I mean, initially, it was not a struggle at all. I mean, like I said, I at that point was a real serial monogamous, you know, like, to me, like,
00:21:30
Speaker
You know, one relationship, it's all I wanted and had the bandwidth for, you know?
Exploring Relationship Structures and Communication
00:21:37
Speaker
Even when I was young, like I never emotionally, right? Like that connection is a romantic love relationship with someone. You know, I put a lot into it and it takes a lot.
00:21:55
Speaker
you know, out of me, especially given, you know, my close relationship with my family and my friends, you know, it's a lot of places to spread sort of your emotional self, right? So I didn't need to have multiple relationships. And I've never been a person who was driven by sex, you know, like,
00:22:24
Speaker
I obviously enjoy it. Well, that's not obvious, but I enjoy sex a lot. You don't have to recalibrate how you think you'd say about everything. The language you use nowadays, you know, I mean, it just, and I think, I think it's important and I think it's good, right? Like, and I need to remind myself, like, you know, that's not, you know, a thing, right? Like, you know, and that's good. But what do you, what do you mean by recalibrating these days? What do you mean? Well, like, I feel like
00:22:54
Speaker
you know, we just, our language and our perspectives have evolved to encapsulate so many more, to really give descriptors to, voice to so many different ways of being, so many ways of living, so many different ways of loving that, you know,
00:23:24
Speaker
20, 30 years ago existed, right? But we just didn't engage with them or think about them or discuss them in the way that we do now, right? And like, you know, I, you know, even though for myself, right, like, I, you know, like I said, I enjoy sex, but I don't, I don't need to have
00:23:51
Speaker
I can go long periods of time without having sex and be totally fine. I can't go forever. But if it's two months, three months, it does not bother me. It does not bother me. That's a whole other conversation between me and my therapist. But that is what it is.
00:24:19
Speaker
those were things that initially at the outset of our relationship just were like, nope, it's just me and you and that's all it needs to be and I'm fine with that. And that's how it was. So you say that in the past tense, has that evolved? Do you want to talk about how that's evolved? Yeah, I mean, it evolved, but not
00:24:44
Speaker
for anything that has to do with me being bi per se, right? Like that's just changing dynamics in our relationship and where we are individually in terms of sex. And like I said, like I can go a period of time without it, but I can't go indefinitely without it. And we just, you know, and again, like I hate
00:25:12
Speaker
I am very conscious about putting my wife's experiences and perspectives through my lens, right? I'm very, especially on a platform like this, so I won't go too much into it from her end, but like, you know, and that was really challenging, right? To just be in sort of radically different places where we are, but still,
00:25:41
Speaker
be in an incredibly committed, loving relationship where like I don't, I think neither of us really imagine wanting to be with another person for the rest of our lives, right? Like in this way. So, you know, in part of what's really great about the 21st century is that like we talk, you know,
00:26:09
Speaker
you become more cognizant of, oh, there are other ways that you can do this. And there's no right way or wrong way. It's the way that works for you. And so we were able to move to an open relationship, but not, I always say it's not polyamory because like I said, I still am in a place where I don't need other
00:26:39
Speaker
long-term romantic partner. I don't know how people do it. I'm tired hearing it.
00:26:50
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I mean, there's this huge sort of, I guess I'll call it a myth, but there's this huge sort of perception under heteronormativity that romantic attraction and sexual attraction have to be tied together always, and that they're one and the same, and that when you're monogamously married, you only love one person and you only have sex with one person, and it's the same thing.
00:27:18
Speaker
And what you're saying sort of is a reminder that these things are interrelated, but they don't necessarily operate in identical ways and that it's very possible and in fact, very common for people to be monogamous in terms of emotional and romantic connection, but not sexually monogamous. Does that resonate with your experience?
Personal Growth and Insights
00:27:45
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. And it's
00:27:47
Speaker
And one of the things I have to be really, which is a challenge, you know, really cognizant of is being very upfront about that, right? About being, you know, and that doesn't mean I can't have a close relationship with people I might sleep with, right? Like you could be friends or you could, you know, whatever.
00:28:14
Speaker
you know, when it comes to the person who is, has all of my, not all of it, but like most of my emotional and romantic energy, it's this person, you know, it's my wife and that's how it's going to be. And, you know, it's just, you know, communication in any of, with everyone involved, right? When you're talking about any form of non-monogamy, in my opinion, is the key, the critical factor to making it work ever.
00:28:44
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. What did you learn, if anything, about yourself by participating in this project? Well, one is I think I did learn to be to get over a little bit of the fear of
00:29:10
Speaker
You know, even though, unlike some other folks that you have in the book who are, you know, more visible than I will be, you know, I'm sort of like, oh, you know, like, I don't have to worry too much about like, oh, what if someone from work
00:29:29
Speaker
is this or, you know, like, oh, you know, it's just not that scary. It's just not that scary. And I think that was really a good thing.
00:29:46
Speaker
Cool. Cool. I love that that's your answer to that question because I've had the exact same experience when asked to put myself out there. It's scary and I've done it. And every time I've done it, it's rewarding. And not that there's nothing to think about and that the fears were unwarranted. There are things to think about. But
00:30:12
Speaker
most of the fears have not come true and the benefits have been greater. And I think that's the important piece, right? It's like, yeah, any, you know, all decisions we make have benefits and consequences, right? And some of them are very minimal in terms of consequences or almost nil, right? But, you know, there's a, for me,
00:30:41
Speaker
there's a sense that like, oh, you know, like being part of a project like this, in a book like this, ease away, right? That, you know, even though being valued at the center of my day-to-day life, that I can, you know, put myself out there and maybe, like you said, something about
00:31:11
Speaker
my story could resonate with someone else, or they could find some comfort in knowing, oh, yeah, I'm not alone in this particular thing. And it also just gives me an opportunity to practice being authentically me, which is always great.
00:31:29
Speaker
Yeah, beautiful. Love it. What's something that you wish you had realized or understood sooner about bisexuality or relationships? I think I wish, I certainly wish when I was a teenager, you know, my late teens, like 17, 18, I had realized that
00:31:59
Speaker
again, that there could be this separation between being bi and then having sex with both men and women, right? Like that I could have just come to terms or just like sort of incorporated it as a piece of myself, even to myself earlier, you know, because in my mind was like, well, I'm not going to fool around with a guy. So why do I even just the fact that I
00:32:29
Speaker
you know, find guys attractive, and they're, you know, that doesn't really, that's nothing if I'm not going to do anything about it, right? Yeah, that's not exactly right. And I wish I just, you know, give myself the
00:32:53
Speaker
permission to inhabit that a little bit more earlier on. Yeah, interesting, interesting. So along those lines these days, how do you think your sexuality affects your life outside of sex? Like, aside from actually having sex, how does it influence your life or come into play? You know, it's a good question. And I don't know if my sexuality
00:33:23
Speaker
um has that much uh i mean you know like i'm much more especially as i'm meeting people right new people if i'm meeting people in social situations you know i'm i feel much more uh comfortable you know inhabiting my inhabiting my sexuality whatever that means whatever that looks like in the moment right we're talking about it or you know and i'm much more upfront about it um
00:33:52
Speaker
You know, but it's not, if anything, I think my perspective on my gender has a lot more impact in my day-to-day than my sexuality. Oh, tell us more about that. Well, you know, it's funny because I was talking about this in therapy and, you know,
00:34:21
Speaker
And it's one of those things where, like, I've always viewed myself as, you know, like, oh, I'm a cis male, right? Like, that's just what I am. But it's not actually all I am. And I was, you know, and I was talking about this, again, it's sort of like with the, you know, being attracted to guys, you know, when I'm younger, like, I remember all throughout college,
00:34:49
Speaker
And all throughout, you know, the early 90s, you know, my, you know, there was this term, it was like metrosexual, right? And it was used to sort of as a label to talk about men who cared about things that were viewed as traditionally feminine, like your skin and how you looked and being pretty and like,
00:35:19
Speaker
every single person I knew would say to me, oh yeah, you're, you're that. Right? Like back then and again, it was like, well, yeah, like, you know, um, I have always been drawn. So I, I'm being very, this is not, I'm not being very clear because it's not very clear to me in my mind. But, but it's just like where I am,
00:35:48
Speaker
in that space along that continuum of masculinity, femininity, and other, right? I'm not, I'm in between labels, but in the, in the absence of a label, like, you know, I just present how I present and I am how I am. And it is, and it's always interesting to see how people receive that.
00:36:17
Speaker
you know, because they receive that first more than they receive any news about who I might sleep with, you know. What kinds of things do you think they pick up on? What do you mean? Well, it always starts if it will always begin. If I am wearing
00:36:37
Speaker
I'm not today, but like if I am wearing something that has Hello Kitty on it. That's what I thought you might say. Yeah. I mean, you know, because that's always the thing they're like, and then someone will say to me, Oh, I love Hello Kitty too. And then I immediately like fan boy slash fan girl out on it. And then I'm like, and so it is like, you know, a thing that is probably as far as
00:37:06
Speaker
from traditional masculine as you can get, you know, in that moment. And it's a very superficial thing, but it is the easiest sort of example. And there are other things I feel like that I am, you know, in how I am that are similar to that. You know, just in, yeah, like in what I feel like I feel comfortable with,
00:37:37
Speaker
There's not a ton of things that are traditionally masculine that I feel really comfortable with. What does that mean? I do think it means something in terms of what my gender identity is, but
00:38:01
Speaker
know, it's not so clear cut. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, even though it's very nebulous, but that's where you're are and sorting through it. So that makes a lot of sense, actually. How do you think your bisexuality affected your conception of gender or your views of your masculinity these days? I think it really helped me
00:38:27
Speaker
you know, like so many things for me, like I'm multiracial, you know. So there's a spectrum there, you know, bisexual, so there's a spectrum there, like, you know, I grew up poor, and now I'm not, so there's a spectrum of experience there. So like everything else, it just sort of helped me, like my bisexuality helped me sort of understand that like, oh, like,
00:38:58
Speaker
There's multiple ways to be. And it, even if it doesn't make sense to me right now, it certainly doesn't need to 100% make sense to everyone else. And it is just who you are, right? You know, and I continue to work at like,
00:39:24
Speaker
giving voice to it because i'd like to in some way and i know some amazing people who have just like gotten it down for themselves like they can sort of put words to how they feel and how they you know and i'm like oh that's so great like you know i want to get to that place um you know but it really you know being bi really just sort of
00:39:49
Speaker
helps you get into that space where it's like, yeah, I don't have to be fit into this one thing or another thing. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. And just embrace whatever is there and your authentic self.
00:40:11
Speaker
Thanks for listening to this episode with Charles.
Closing and Support for the Podcast
00:40:13
Speaker
There are more than 10 minutes of bonus material on Patreon. Head to patreon.com slash Robert Brooks Cohen. I asked Charles what he hopes people will take from his story or get out of it. We circled back to that question of how important is his bisexuality or his queerness in a straight passing relationship and like when is it important. And I also asked him how his queerness brings him joy and his answer was really beautiful, but you'll have to head to Patreon to hear it this time.
00:40:40
Speaker
You talked a lot about authenticity and being your unique, weird self, and learning to embrace that. Highly recommend it. There's no video for this episode, unfortunately. Well, there is video, but it's just of me. But there is bonus material, so head to patreon.com slash Robert Brooks Cohen for that. Thank you so much to everyone there who has subscribed. Thank you also to everyone who has purchased my book, Bisexual Married Men, Stories of Relationships, Acceptance, and Authenticity. And especially to those who have posted about it on social media, on Instagram,
00:41:10
Speaker
I love seeing it. I'm so excited to see what you guys connect with and what you think of the book. If you haven't received your copy yet, I'm sure you'll get it soon. If you haven't ordered it, get on that. It's on my website, robertbrookescohen.com. We'll be back the next few weeks in December with more of these interviews with subjects from the book. And now here's the very tail end of my conversation with Charles. Thanks for listening.
00:41:33
Speaker
Well, it's been great to chat with you again, Charles. I'm so excited that you're in the book and that everyone can hear this and hear you here. And yeah, I can't wait for everyone to read your chapter. Yeah. And I will probably see you at the center. Cool. Which will be in the past when this episode airs, but hopefully you all were there and you saw Charles in person. Yeah. Well, thank you again for being here. This was great.
00:42:02
Speaker
Yeah, same here. It's so good to see you.
00:42:31
Speaker
you