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Tricky Tricksters: Spotting the Red Flags Before You’re Played
4 Plays1 year ago
The Queens expose the Tricky Tricksters—those sneaky, low value men who know all the right things to say but never follow through. These master manipulators use charm, flattery, future faking and emotional sleight of hand to get what they want without ever offering the real deal. Learn the classic tricks, the subtle gaslighting, and how to stop falling for these low-effort clowns, as the Queens give you the tools to outsmart the players before they even step on the field. Stay sharp, Queens—it’s time to flip the script on those tricky tricksters!
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Transcript
Introduction: Spotting Tricksters in Relationships
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to the Female Dating Strategy, the meanest female-only dating podcast on the internet.
00:00:04
Speaker
I'm Diana.
00:00:05
Speaker
And I'm your host, Rose.
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome back, everybody.
00:00:09
Speaker
We're so delighted to be here.
00:00:11
Speaker
And this week, Diana and I are especially excited for our topic.
00:00:15
Speaker
Are we not, Diana?
00:00:15
Speaker
Are we not totally psyched?
00:00:17
Speaker
We are very, very psyched.
00:00:19
Speaker
We are so psyched, you can't even believe it.
00:00:21
Speaker
We actually started talking about this before we even started recording.
00:00:24
Speaker
Today's
Gaslighting and Self-Recognition
00:00:25
Speaker
topic is tricky tricksters.
00:00:28
Speaker
and how to spot them.
00:00:30
Speaker
Or in other words, how do you know if you're being taken for a ride?
00:00:34
Speaker
Are you ready, Diana?
00:00:36
Speaker
I'm ready.
00:00:37
Speaker
I'm ready when you are.
00:00:39
Speaker
Let's get into it.
00:00:41
Speaker
Awesome.
00:00:42
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This podcast episode is just so important because I think that women, we don't even really need external factors like our families, our neighborhoods, other men and stuff telling us that we're being taken for a ride.
00:00:55
Speaker
We tend to gaslight ourselves before that even happens.
00:00:58
Speaker
So sometimes it's even hard to admit that you're in a shitty position.
00:01:02
Speaker
And so we're hoping with this podcast, you'll be able to identify some of the manipulative sort of forces in your own life and be able to spot them and prevent yourself from experiencing a lot of heartbreak.
00:01:14
Speaker
And so we hope that that's what this episode will do for
Support and Community for Women
00:01:17
Speaker
you.
00:01:17
Speaker
And we're going to go over some of the ways in which you can find out whether you're being taken for a ride or not.
00:01:22
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:01:23
Speaker
And one thing I will add is that for many of you listening, I'm sure you've been on many journeys with many men.
00:01:29
Speaker
If you find yourself in any of these scenarios right now, we just want you to know we are here for you.
00:01:34
Speaker
We support you.
00:01:35
Speaker
We are your cheerleaders.
00:01:37
Speaker
Please don't feel ashamed.
00:01:38
Speaker
Please don't feel like you can't reach out for help and for community because it's only together that we can save more and more of our sisters from these awful scenarios that are not their fault.
Personal Accountability and Change
00:01:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's important for us to acknowledge, you know, we are very often the victims of these scenarios, but there comes a time I'm ready to change once I'm willing to accept my own bullshit.
00:02:03
Speaker
Once you get sick of your own bullshit, because, you know, I've had friends who've been in abusive and sort of extremely red flag sort of relationships, and I have tried to be the supportive friend for them, as I'm sure many of us have countless times.
00:02:17
Speaker
And
00:02:18
Speaker
And it's very hard to be put in that emotional position because you mean the best for them.
00:02:23
Speaker
But honestly, if they're not ready to hear the message, it doesn't matter how nicely you cushion it for them or, you know, how much tough love you administer to someone.
00:02:32
Speaker
They have to be sick of their own bullshit and be willing to take accountability for their own lives before they can do anything about it.
00:02:38
Speaker
And that also comes down to seeking help, right?
00:02:40
Speaker
Like that's why the first step of AA is, you know, you acknowledge the problem first.
00:02:44
Speaker
And so once you acknowledge the problem, then you're willing to actually tackle it and seek help for
Boundaries in Relationships
00:02:49
Speaker
it.
00:02:49
Speaker
So we're here not to shame any woman and say, hey, this is all your fault and you should have done better.
00:02:55
Speaker
The first step for you to actually change things in your life is for you to acknowledge that something is wrong.
00:02:59
Speaker
And we want to go through some of these systems, especially in countries where women don't get to express as much agency.
00:03:07
Speaker
And so one of the things we wanted to talk about, because I feel like that's something that we never talk about, is arranged marriages.
00:03:13
Speaker
That's right.
00:03:14
Speaker
And before we kick off with that, Diana, I really like what you just said.
00:03:18
Speaker
That was so beautifully said.
00:03:20
Speaker
And I would also add, you know, for those of us who end up being the friend in this situation,
00:03:25
Speaker
We see you, we hear you, we are you.
00:03:28
Speaker
It is so demoralizing to bear witness to these awful relationships and to see that harm being done in real time to our beloved sisters.
00:03:36
Speaker
And just as a reminder, it is also up to us to cut it off at the source.
00:03:42
Speaker
And what do I mean by that?
00:03:44
Speaker
Every time we allow our friend in an abusive or terrible relationship to come and to spew everything that's wrong with her life without any intention or realization of she might change it, we are allowing this pressure valve or we're becoming this sort of pressure valve release for her and the relationship.
00:04:03
Speaker
And we're letting her siphon a little bit of that steam and that anger and that energy that could actually, if it builds up long enough,
00:04:11
Speaker
be explosive enough to get her out of that situation.
00:04:14
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And so I think it's really important that after a certain period of time, we have said our piece, we've let her know that we're really concerned, that we don't think this is healthy, etc.
00:04:23
Speaker
And that at this point, we're no longer going to engage in this discussion or this topic of this man.
00:04:30
Speaker
Because it's not that we don't love her and care for her.
00:04:32
Speaker
It is because we love and care for her, that we have to protect ourselves so that we actually have our own energies ready when she is ready to leave.
Self-Esteem and Partner Choice
00:04:41
Speaker
if that makes sense.
00:04:43
Speaker
That makes total sense.
00:04:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:45
Speaker
You know, I think that, you know how they say that you're the sum total of your five friends.
00:04:51
Speaker
I also believe that what someone's self-esteem is based on the partner they choose to keep, because it's the company you choose to keep, right?
00:04:58
Speaker
Like I can tell when someone has extremely low self-esteem because they have a partner that chooses to neg them and degrade them in public.
00:05:06
Speaker
I obviously don't know the internal sort of structure of what their relationship is like.
00:05:11
Speaker
I can tell that this person, there's some true to the quote, I think it was some of the perks of being a wallflower or whatever, where he said, we accept the love that we think we deserve.
00:05:20
Speaker
And there's a lot of truth to that quote, because the truth is that once we as women acknowledge that we've kind of been set up to fail and that we've been, you know, indoctrinated into a culture that tells us that we shouldn't aspire to have better standards, we shouldn't, you know, dare to dream of better.
00:05:39
Speaker
We convince ourselves that the mediocre is enough.
00:05:43
Speaker
That's all right.
00:05:44
Speaker
And we start telling ourselves these things like, well, at least he doesn't do this.
00:05:48
Speaker
Like, at least he doesn't leave dirty dishes in the sink.
00:05:50
Speaker
And at least he doesn't beat me.
00:05:52
Speaker
And at least he's not like rude to me in public.
00:05:55
Speaker
And every single time you say at least you are setting the bar that much lower.
00:05:59
Speaker
And that's such a good point.
00:06:00
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Actually, ladies, if you start to hear in your own inner monologue, at least flag it, flag it.
00:06:07
Speaker
That's your inner self warning you that things are reaching or have long been unacceptable.
00:06:15
Speaker
Start to listen to your own inner self.
00:06:16
Speaker
And if you hear at least start to make moves.
00:06:20
Speaker
I would say at least is the first red flag, like in the how do you know you're being taken for a riot thing.
00:06:24
Speaker
The second you start making concessions for this other person and justifying and rationalizing their behavior by saying, well, at least, then you already know that you're trying to condition your mind into settling for less.
00:06:37
Speaker
Because the truth is, you would never have to say that if that person was operating the way
Arranged Marriages: Cultural Contexts
00:06:41
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that they should be.
00:06:41
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If they were treating you with love and respect, you would never feel the need to go to at least.
00:06:46
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:06:47
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:06:48
Speaker
And what you were saying earlier, moving into our first discussion around arranged marriages, this is a tricky situation because many times these women are ending up with an at least kind of man.
00:06:59
Speaker
And it's not just because she made all these decisions, but rather she's part of a system where she is compelled to accept the least objectionable bridegroom.
00:07:10
Speaker
Yep.
00:07:10
Speaker
And, you know, the system of arranged marriage has changed so much.
00:07:13
Speaker
Like, because I mean, arranged marriage, as much as it's extremely prevalent in South Asia, especially India, you know, I believe the vast majority of marriages in India are made by arranged marriages.
00:07:22
Speaker
arranged marriages were kind of the norm in the upper class for the longest time.
00:07:27
Speaker
And that's because arranged marriages were really about ensuring two families' bloodlines get passed down in like the same economic structure.
00:07:33
Speaker
Like they marry the same level of wealth.
00:07:36
Speaker
You can be sure of the fact that this other family has the same level of resources as you, if not more.
00:07:42
Speaker
They share the same values as you.
00:07:43
Speaker
Sometimes they share the same religion as you.
00:07:46
Speaker
And usually you'll know their families because you move around in the same social circle.
00:07:50
Speaker
So it was considered like a protective thing in that, oh, we're cushioning this person and we're protecting this person as an asset.
00:07:56
Speaker
Because, you know, in India, for example, the way that they refer to brides is pariah done.
00:08:01
Speaker
And that essentially means somebody else's property.
00:08:05
Speaker
Like, you know, they're goods to give away, essentially.
00:08:07
Speaker
And so a daughter isn't considered a valuable asset on her own right.
00:08:12
Speaker
When she reaches a marriageable age is somebody else's treasure, somebody else's gift and somebody else's resource.
00:08:18
Speaker
And so, you know, when people were treated, how they considered and treated daughters in the past was essentially, how am I going to leverage my daughter to ensure a better economic outcome for my entire family?
00:08:29
Speaker
And if I'm not mistaken, Diana, please correct me if I'm wrong.
00:08:31
Speaker
Was this not also often why daughters were treated in their family of origin as like a temporary house guest rather than as a beloved member of the family?
00:08:41
Speaker
Yes.
00:08:41
Speaker
And the sad thing is they're probably treated that way in their new household as well, because they're not really accepted into the fold.
00:08:47
Speaker
That's why like one of the most popular genres of like, we call them television serials, but they're essentially telenovelas.
00:08:53
Speaker
It's always like the disruptive sort of relationship between the mother-in-law and the daughter-in-law.
00:08:58
Speaker
We literally have a show called When the Mother-in-Law Was a Daughter-in-Law.
00:09:01
Speaker
That was literally the name of the show.
00:09:02
Speaker
And it's about like this beef between this mother-in-law and this daughter-in-law who walks into her family.
00:09:07
Speaker
And this was like the common trope of the ages, especially in India, right?
00:09:11
Speaker
That like mother-in-laws, you know, they don't think that anyone is good enough for their precious son.
00:09:16
Speaker
They're like hardcore boy moms who don't want this like, you know, seductress to come into their home and seduce their precious boy away.
00:09:24
Speaker
And it speaks to a certain loneliness of the Indian household as well, because these mother-in-laws are usually so emotionally neglected by their husbands that they exhibit emotional incest with their sons as a way to make up for the fact that their husbands are not giving them any attention.
00:09:36
Speaker
And so you've spent all of your life grooming this boy to be the perfect husband to you, only to watch him go to another woman.
Economic and Social Dynamics of Arranged Marriages
00:09:43
Speaker
And so it's like emotional incest beef.
00:09:46
Speaker
And I don't think that we've peeled back enough of these layers in our society to have honest conversations about it.
00:09:52
Speaker
But it's one of the big reasons why I'm not in favor of or support arranged marriage, because to me, it just feels like you're playing Russian roulette with your love life.
00:10:00
Speaker
This is so tricky.
00:10:02
Speaker
Get it?
00:10:02
Speaker
Tricky?
00:10:03
Speaker
Very tricky.
00:10:05
Speaker
I mean, because I'm just thinking about how I was talking with a friend of mine who's from South Asia, from South India.
00:10:13
Speaker
And she was explaining to me the differences between enraged marriages of immigrants versus those who are coming, what she called them FOVs, fresh off the boat.
00:10:22
Speaker
Have you ever heard of that before?
00:10:23
Speaker
Yeah, FOBS.
00:10:25
Speaker
FOBS, yes, the FOB.
00:10:27
Speaker
And so I was saying, but doesn't it make sense that, you know, you'd be like pooling your resources and, you know, in many ways, like you'd be carrying on the culture because one person who's already been brought up in, say, Houston is,
00:10:37
Speaker
but whose lineage is from South India, like, wouldn't you want to marry a South Indian man coming here?
00:10:41
Speaker
And then she went into this whole talk about like these mama's boys and how you don't actually marry him.
00:10:46
Speaker
You marry his mother and just how tricky it is to find a fair and equitable match because so many of these men really only ever need their mothers emotionally.
00:10:57
Speaker
And the wife is simply, you know, a cum receptacle.
00:11:02
Speaker
is so hard.
00:11:03
Speaker
You know, I will say in the case, I mean, you will never hear me defend arranged marriage.
00:11:08
Speaker
Let me just start off from that position.
00:11:09
Speaker
I want my position on this podcast to be very clear in that I am anti arranged marriages, despite the fact that my parents had one and they probably lucked out.
00:11:17
Speaker
But like I said, it's Russian roulette with your love life.
00:11:19
Speaker
Every now and then it works out.
00:11:21
Speaker
That doesn't mean it's an effective system, you know?
00:11:23
Speaker
Just because I rubbed like, I don't know, some kind of poison ivy on my skin and I don't get poison doesn't mean that poison ivy isn't poisonous.
00:11:32
Speaker
Well said.
00:11:32
Speaker
Yes, yes, exactly.
00:11:34
Speaker
Just because something doesn't personally affect me doesn't mean that the structure in and of itself is somehow equitable, right?
00:11:41
Speaker
You know, there's a difference between how arranged marriage was constructed then and how it was constructed now.
00:11:46
Speaker
And now it's kind of somebody described it really well and that they said it's kind of like Tinder, but your parents swipe left and right.
00:11:52
Speaker
And and it's very true because the truth is in India and I'm sure in other Asian cultures as well, marriage is seen as marriage between the families, not just the two individuals, because they're a collective of society.
00:12:04
Speaker
So they look at the whole.
00:12:05
Speaker
They don't look at the some parts.
00:12:07
Speaker
And that's why they're more likely to pressure a woman to stay within her marriage, because it's seen as a breakdown of the entire family unit.
00:12:14
Speaker
And so both the in-laws of both ends will try to keep the woman trapped within the system because breaking of the system means that they can't save face in public for either side.
00:12:24
Speaker
And so traditionally, what would happen, there were multiple ways that people would have arranged marriages, right?
00:12:28
Speaker
And I'll tell you like very briefly about how it used to be and how it is now.
00:12:31
Speaker
What it used to be was you married along the lines of economic class and caste.
00:12:36
Speaker
And so you would have like a pundit, you know,
00:12:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:57
Speaker
She's basically there to make sure all the singles are hooking up.
00:13:00
Speaker
And I mean, it allowed a level of protection because obviously, you know, that the kind of man who is in this market is looking to be married.
00:13:06
Speaker
So you don't have to worry about that part of his intentions.
00:13:09
Speaker
Like, you know, that he's there to get married.
00:13:10
Speaker
Like in the case of my mom and dad, for example,
00:13:13
Speaker
My dad found out about my mom because basically my mom used to play like cricket with a local boy.
00:13:20
Speaker
And this local boy was like friends with my dad.
00:13:22
Speaker
And the local boy told my dad about my mom and said that she was single.
00:13:25
Speaker
And then my dad sent out his mom to go investigate.
00:13:28
Speaker
And his mom met my grandmother, my mom's mom.
00:13:31
Speaker
And they had a conversation and then they introduced the two of them.
00:13:34
Speaker
And then like they went out for like six months, which is a little bit longer than it used to be in those days.
00:13:37
Speaker
Like usually you would see your bride like one time and then you would see her at the wedding.
00:13:42
Speaker
So you only ever had like two meetings before you actually married them, you know, because it was just like, oh, is she hot?
00:13:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:48
Speaker
Okay, sure.
00:13:48
Speaker
That's fine.
00:13:49
Speaker
Like for men, it was a very, it's a very easy game for men.
00:13:52
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:13:52
Speaker
It's just like, do I find her sexually attractive?
00:13:54
Speaker
Great.
00:13:55
Speaker
It was a great way for subpar Indian men to get women that were way out of their league.
00:14:00
Speaker
Doesn't Savannah call this affirmative action for men?
00:14:03
Speaker
Exactly.
00:14:04
Speaker
It's affirmative action for loser men.
00:14:05
Speaker
Let's be clear of that.
00:14:09
Speaker
We hate affirmative action for loser men.
00:14:12
Speaker
We hate it.
00:14:13
Speaker
We are opposed.
00:14:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's bad enough if it's affirmative action for men, but it's for loser men.
00:14:18
Speaker
So it makes it that much worse.
00:14:20
Speaker
So, I mean, my dad's situation was quite unusual in that, you know, he lost both of his parents quite young.
00:14:26
Speaker
And so he had to assume the family business.
00:14:28
Speaker
And so that meant that he married much later than his peers.
00:14:31
Speaker
He was married by his early 30s, which was very unusual at the time.
00:14:35
Speaker
And my mom was in her 30s as well, which was, again, very unusual.
Arranged Marriage Market Dynamics
00:14:39
Speaker
So both of them were really late into the marriage game.
00:14:41
Speaker
And like the only other options they had besides each other were like drunks and divorcees.
00:14:46
Speaker
And so that wasn't really what they were trying to vibe with.
00:14:48
Speaker
So, you know, they got very lucky in that market that they found each other.
00:14:51
Speaker
But usually, you know, 30 is like the cutoff, right?
00:14:55
Speaker
30 is when they say that your options start thinning out.
00:14:57
Speaker
And like the only options you really are going to get are people who've already had families or been divorced or, you know, married once or people who have like severe mental issues.
00:15:05
Speaker
And that's why they've been in the pool that long.
00:15:07
Speaker
And that's how they describe it as well.
00:15:09
Speaker
Like I've been asked plenty of times before.
00:15:11
Speaker
It's like, okay, we have like, you know, alcoholic number one, divorcee number two, and, you know, anger issues number three.
00:15:19
Speaker
Which of the three would you like?
00:15:20
Speaker
And it's like, no thanks.
00:15:21
Speaker
None of them.
00:15:22
Speaker
None of the above.
00:15:23
Speaker
None of them.
00:15:24
Speaker
Right?
00:15:24
Speaker
Can that be an option?
00:15:26
Speaker
This is such an interesting background about your parents as well, because one thing I'm thinking as I hear you describe this collectivist society is this is a very good point for the listeners to hear.
00:15:35
Speaker
you are not simply marrying one person.
00:15:38
Speaker
You are not marrying a man.
00:15:40
Speaker
You are marrying his entire family.
00:15:42
Speaker
And that's as true in Texas as it is in Tehran.
00:15:47
Speaker
And so this is like the number one flag to understand is like, if we look just apart from the individual, the man,
00:15:53
Speaker
What is his family like?
00:15:54
Speaker
How was his relationship with his mom?
00:15:56
Speaker
Does he talk to his sisters?
00:15:58
Speaker
Are they simply there as, you know, assistant cooks to his mom?
00:16:01
Speaker
Like, does he have a healthy relationship with his dad?
00:16:03
Speaker
What about his uncles?
00:16:04
Speaker
Does he have a grandfather?
00:16:06
Speaker
All of these are really valid questions for you to be asking, especially in the early stages of getting to know someone, because as Diana mentioned,
00:16:13
Speaker
you are the sum total of the five closest people around you.
00:16:16
Speaker
And for most men, especially who struggle with friendships, the five closest people to him are going to be his immediate family members.
00:16:24
Speaker
Yep.
00:16:25
Speaker
And that's the thing that I want to mention as well is that, you know, part of the reason I don't support arranged marriages is because it doesn't allow a long enough wedding period.
00:16:33
Speaker
And that's a big part of it.
00:16:34
Speaker
It's very easy for people to put on a mask for the first few months if they want to leave you with a favorable impression of their family.
00:16:40
Speaker
They can put on an act, you know.
00:16:42
Speaker
A lot of people, like my mom told me about a friend of hers who had an arranged marriage.
00:16:45
Speaker
Like my mom's family was completely against her marrying an Indian American.
00:16:49
Speaker
And like, this is the thing about like Indian American, like the diaspora Indians and like Indians from India, okay?
00:16:55
Speaker
The key difference is that in India, you know, we kind of all know each other because we're all in the same community.
00:16:58
Speaker
We go to the same temples, you know, we hang out in the same area.
00:17:01
Speaker
So even in those days, it was quite easy to vet someone's family background because we're traveled.
00:17:06
Speaker
In Indian American spaces, you know, they have like a registrar.
00:17:09
Speaker
And like, there's these people, these pundits and all these people who like, you know, they have a register in their local temple of all the eligible people.
00:17:15
Speaker
So if somebody wants to go down the arranged marriage route in that way, they kind of go through like the
00:17:20
Speaker
on to see my route of like Indian matchmaking where they get a matchmaker.
00:17:23
Speaker
And this matchmaker only deals with clients that make a certain percentage of wealth.
00:17:27
Speaker
So there are certain matchmakers that are like straight up.
00:17:30
Speaker
The first vetting category is do you make this much in an annual income?
00:17:33
Speaker
And that those are the only level of clients that she deals with.
00:17:36
Speaker
So you got the economic aspect of it down, but you really have no other way of gauging whether this person is a good fit for you or not, you know, based on how they treat their family and stuff.
00:17:45
Speaker
With my mom's side, you know, they were able to vet because it was a very small town, very small community.
00:17:50
Speaker
So they were able to like, you know, investigate into the family through all the mutuals that they had.
00:17:55
Speaker
Because you're only really marrying people that you have a significant number of mutuals with that you can vet.
00:18:00
Speaker
You know, she's like part of the reason her mom was completely against her marrying an Indian American is because she knew someone in her university who was like brilliant.
00:18:07
Speaker
And this woman married an Indian American guy and moved to New York only to find out that he already had a family.
00:18:13
Speaker
And she was knocked up, mind you.
00:18:14
Speaker
So she got to this foreign country as an immigrant and completely hoodwinked by this man who already had a family there.
00:18:20
Speaker
And
Vetting Cross-Cultural Relationships
00:18:21
Speaker
she basically was a single mom in New York as an immigrant.
00:18:23
Speaker
Imagine, right?
00:18:24
Speaker
Like you moved to the States in like your early twenties or whatever, and you find out that your husband is already married and you're an immigrant in this country.
00:18:33
Speaker
You don't know the laws.
00:18:33
Speaker
You don't know anything.
00:18:35
Speaker
And you're completely reliant on him and you have to find a job and you're a single mom, essentially, you know?
00:18:39
Speaker
What a horror show.
00:18:41
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:18:42
Speaker
Exactly.
00:18:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:43
Speaker
And so, you know, word of caution to Indian American people in general is two things.
00:18:48
Speaker
One of them is not to assume that just because someone is from the global South, that they're going to be a lot more backwards than you in terms of mentality.
00:18:56
Speaker
I mean, it's a good estimation with the men, but I wouldn't assume that of the women.
00:19:01
Speaker
Because in my experience, I found that my parents were way more liberal about what I was allowed to do compared to my cousins in Canada and the US.
00:19:08
Speaker
Like they were raised with extremely strict standards that were kind of unheard of for me in India.
00:19:13
Speaker
And I think part of it was their families felt more of a pressure of retaining the culture in a way that my family didn't.
00:19:18
Speaker
So my family was exceedingly liberal about letting me travel the world and study in all these places.
00:19:23
Speaker
And in general, I had a more holistic multicultural experience compared to my cousins who actually lived
00:19:28
Speaker
in multicultural countries, which is weird, right?
00:19:31
Speaker
Like they weren't allowed to leave their small town in Canada or whatever.
00:19:34
Speaker
Like they had to be there.
00:19:35
Speaker
They had to follow all these traditions.
00:19:36
Speaker
Like I never had to do any of that.
00:19:38
Speaker
So don't automatically assume that just because this person is from India or Pakistan or whatever, that they're necessarily going to be like this, like, you know, fob straight up like village monkey, you know?
00:19:49
Speaker
It's very important to vet them as individuals.
00:19:52
Speaker
But that being said, you know, word of caution to Indian American women, specifically South Asian American women or any kind of, you know, American woman marrying a person who comes from a developing country is watch out for these 90 day fiance types because they exist.
00:20:06
Speaker
They exist.
00:20:07
Speaker
And I think that's a lot more common with the women who are marrying the men.
00:20:10
Speaker
I honestly feel no amount of guilt or any kind of remorse for the women who come from developing countries who are like, I am going to land me some kind of white boy from, I don't know, Michigan or something, and then move to America and build my life and cast this guy away.
00:20:25
Speaker
Good for
Gender Roles and Independence
00:20:26
Speaker
you, sweetie.
00:20:26
Speaker
Do what you do.
00:20:28
Speaker
Go ahead.
00:20:29
Speaker
Go on ahead.
00:20:31
Speaker
We support you.
00:20:32
Speaker
We salute you.
00:20:33
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:20:34
Speaker
Yeah, because your social reality is not the same as the men of your country who hold absolute power in your country.
00:20:40
Speaker
It's just those guys are greedy, greedy little boys who want more.
00:20:43
Speaker
And it's not enough for them to monopolize all the resources of their own country.
00:20:47
Speaker
Now they have to go and terrorize a woman from another place.
00:20:49
Speaker
So, you know, if you are a woman from another country, like please vet the men that come from these countries really well.
00:20:55
Speaker
I mean, in your case, it's a safer assumption to believe that they may have more outdated views on women and gender roles in general.
00:21:01
Speaker
But like really, you know, individually bet them.
00:21:04
Speaker
But don't assume that the women are not progressive.
00:21:06
Speaker
I will say that because people have made these assumptions about me before and have been shocked that I have more radical feminist views than they do.
00:21:12
Speaker
And I'm like, well, yes, my views are a byproduct of the reality I grew up in.
00:21:17
Speaker
I have to develop these kinds of views.
00:21:18
Speaker
You may find them extreme, but I find them necessary for my survival.
00:21:22
Speaker
And the men in my life have also been extremely instrumental in me cultivating these extremely strong and high standards for myself.
00:21:30
Speaker
They themselves have been the ones who've got, you know, in front of me when I've been in harm's way and been like, this man is pathetic.
00:21:36
Speaker
He's a loser.
00:21:37
Speaker
No, I've been lucky in that I've had men step up for me that way and say, no, especially like, you know, the male members of my family, not all of them.
00:21:44
Speaker
There's definitely scrotes in my family as well.
00:21:46
Speaker
But you know, my relationship with my dad and my uncle, for example, like they have always been like, no, many of these guys are not good enough for you.
'Starter Wives' and Manipulation
00:21:52
Speaker
And that's why it's all their fault.
00:21:53
Speaker
I'm single.
00:21:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:55
Speaker
Thanks, dad.
00:21:57
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:21:58
Speaker
Well, and you know, what's interesting is that on the flip side of this is we've been talking about, you know, one of the reasons why people can think that an arranged marriage is useful is because the intentions of the man are clear.
00:22:11
Speaker
And oftentimes, like a lot of it does hinge on the man because so many of them are so squirrely, right?
00:22:16
Speaker
They're always trying to, like you said, they're greedy little boys who are always trying to extract as much benefit with the least amount of effort or
00:22:25
Speaker
even like resource sharing on their own end.
00:22:28
Speaker
And so you might be confused with our next trickster, which is the man who has or is looking for a starter wife.
00:22:38
Speaker
Yep.
00:22:38
Speaker
And I've only ever heard about people use the starter wife thing in like the tech space, like people like Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates and stuff or Elon Musk, you know, these men who had starter wives were there to help.
00:22:50
Speaker
First of all, you know, as we say in FDS, never like build a man up.
00:22:53
Speaker
Meet him at the finish line.
00:22:54
Speaker
Meet him at the finish line when he's done building.
00:22:56
Speaker
You know, don't ever because men are not grateful and they do not like it when you see them in a bad position.
00:23:02
Speaker
They will hold it against you.
00:23:04
Speaker
They'll hold it against you.
00:23:05
Speaker
Their egos won't let it.
00:23:06
Speaker
So I've heard it more from the medical field, like the young doctor and or from lawyers just starting out versus, you know, once he becomes or once they become a partner, then they're looking for the upgrade.
00:23:19
Speaker
So it sounds like a lot of this comes from maybe it's just the higher paying end of careers that are looking for starter wives.
00:23:26
Speaker
Well, it's not just that, right?
00:23:27
Speaker
Because coming back to just, you know, the immigrant arranged marriage situation, a lot
Recognizing Red Flags Early
00:23:32
Speaker
of these South Asian men marry a starter wife in the States who's like this Indian American girl whose family wants her to marry someone conventional and marry her because they see her as a ticket to enter the States.
00:23:44
Speaker
and then, you know, divorce her or as many of the times they don't divorce or they just stay with her, but they cheat on her and they like try to find their like, you know, Aryan princess or whatever, because a lot of these men, I mean, they have very fucked up views about women.
00:23:55
Speaker
Right.
00:23:55
Speaker
And a lot of their impression of the States comes from pornography.
00:23:59
Speaker
So you can only imagine that they see these women as a way to have a fast and easy life in a first world country.
00:24:04
Speaker
And that woman is usually the one who's more established because she's a citizen there, right?
00:24:07
Speaker
So she's like working and putting food on the table for the two of them.
00:24:10
Speaker
And I've seen many situations in which the man doesn't even get a job.
00:24:14
Speaker
He's just like a leech who's laying.
00:24:16
Speaker
So even in that situation, I think that's technically a starter wife because he has no intention of actually being a family man or pulling his weight in the household.
00:24:23
Speaker
He's just seeing her as a means to move to a foreign country and then go after the woman that he actually wants.
00:24:28
Speaker
And that's essentially what a starter wife is, right?
00:24:30
Speaker
She's a person that you can use, you know, extract labor from so that you can fulfill whatever fantasy or wish that you have, whatever kind of dream you want to fulfill without feeling guilty about leaving her behind.
00:24:41
Speaker
Right.
00:24:42
Speaker
And this makes me think about, you know, one of the ways we can then use this as an example of how to spot these individuals is what sort of resources is he looking to put into your relationship, to put into you,
00:24:55
Speaker
and also simply to put into your bank account.
00:24:58
Speaker
Yep.
00:24:59
Speaker
That's one thing.
00:25:00
Speaker
And the other thing is also, obviously we have a timeframe in which we think it's acceptable for men to move the relationship forward.
00:25:07
Speaker
I think in situations like arranged marriage or like 90 day fiance situations, especially these men will try to lock you down fast.
00:25:14
Speaker
And that itself is a very big red flag because they want to lock you down before you have a chance to fully investigate what their issues might be.
00:25:21
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:25:22
Speaker
So the first thing with these people is they're going to try to put the moves on you super fast and
00:25:26
Speaker
Because they'll try to love bomb you and they'll try to beat your vetting system, essentially, you know?
00:25:32
Speaker
And of course, they can only keep up a facade for so long as well, which is also why the clock is ticking on their end.
00:25:38
Speaker
Yes.
00:25:39
Speaker
It's also like what scammers use, right?
00:25:40
Speaker
They use urgency as a tool in getting you to move along faster.
00:25:44
Speaker
Like, oh no, my father is sick and, you know, he needs this money and I have to move to the United States so that I can earn those big Tesla dollars and send it back to my poor dear father.
00:25:53
Speaker
Like...
Emotional Manipulation Tactics
00:25:54
Speaker
They try to prey on your naivete and your innocence and your goodwill and empathy.
00:25:59
Speaker
And these guys are always the ones who have soft stories.
00:26:02
Speaker
So I'd say the first thing, when you're assessing whether this guy is looking for a starter wife is from the get go, is he trying to extract emotional labor from you?
00:26:09
Speaker
Is he trying to put you in a position where you feel sorry for him?
00:26:12
Speaker
I know that we've already said before in our red flags, if you look at the old blog posts and stuff, we've said that this is a major red flag when someone tries to trauma bond with you immediately.
00:26:22
Speaker
So that's what they'll try to do is they'll try to put the whole poor me, I come from a little developing country, my country is in war, my country is this or that.
00:26:29
Speaker
And it may be true, it might not be true.
00:26:31
Speaker
But the fact is that they're using that as a way to extract labor from you.
00:26:35
Speaker
And any man who's worth the salt is first going to be trying to signal to you that he
00:26:40
Speaker
He is worth investing in because he's putting money or wealth or, you know, something good into your hands.
00:26:45
Speaker
He's improving your life.
00:26:46
Speaker
That's his focus.
00:26:48
Speaker
The focus shouldn't be, hey, feel sorry for me.
00:26:50
Speaker
I'm down on my luck.
00:26:51
Speaker
Come adopt me like I'm a sick puppy.
00:26:54
Speaker
Well, I'm just thinking about, you know, this trauma bonding.
00:26:56
Speaker
That was the very good point because that was something that, yes, especially in the early days of FDS, as things were beginning to coalesce, that was one that was brought up repeatedly because this is what's so hard for us because we want a man who's emotionally open, who shares, who's in touch with his feelings, but the con artist knows that.
00:27:13
Speaker
And so oversharing trauma bonding is a trademark.
00:27:17
Speaker
And we often mistake that for, oh, he really feels a special connection with me.
00:27:21
Speaker
This must be real.
00:27:23
Speaker
And these are all the tricks of a trickster who knows what women are looking for and who will pitch it exactly to what you want to hear.
00:27:31
Speaker
So that's when people say things are too good to be true.
00:27:34
Speaker
If everything you hear is like your dream realized, probably going to turn into a nightmare.
00:27:41
Speaker
Yep, if he's saying all of these things that just sound good, if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
00:27:46
Speaker
Like if you look at the situations with Melinda Gates, and I don't remember Elon Musk's first wife's name, so I can't, you know, but I remember Melinda Gates saying that she knew her marriage was like over, over when he started doing these events with Jeffrey Epstein.
00:28:01
Speaker
And she was like, that was when I really began questioning whether we even really shared the same moral values.
00:28:06
Speaker
Right.
00:28:07
Speaker
And the truth is that they try to get you on the basis of those moral values.
00:28:10
Speaker
Like when you're the starter wife and you're building up his life for him, he's going to convince you that he's this great visionary, this genius who just wants to help the weak and the vulnerable.
00:28:20
Speaker
And like,
00:28:21
Speaker
you know, you're going to buy into his like Jesus fantasy and his Jesus role play because the truth is he's none of those things, right?
00:28:26
Speaker
But he knows that that's the kind of man that you are attracted to.
00:28:29
Speaker
So he's going to try to play off the fact that he's this like deep thinking person who cares about eradicating X, Y, and Z. And the truth is,
00:28:37
Speaker
it may not be far from the truth.
00:28:38
Speaker
He may actually want to do those things, but he's using your labor.
Legal Protections in Relationships
00:28:41
Speaker
And like many of these situations, like they're like, oh, I have this big goal of helping the poor and the needy.
00:28:46
Speaker
And that's why you need to work for my company for free.
00:28:49
Speaker
I'm not going to make you partner.
00:28:51
Speaker
I'm not going to give you any kind of tangible role in the company.
00:28:54
Speaker
I'm going to make you handle all the accounts.
00:28:56
Speaker
bring in all the business, but I'm not going to have any kind of contract that's outlined that's, you know, saying that you have any share ownership or stake in this company.
00:29:03
Speaker
So you're ending up doing all this labor for him.
00:29:05
Speaker
And then when you actually end up divorced, like you don't actually have any claim to the thing that you built with him, you know?
00:29:11
Speaker
So any, again, like it comes down to, is he being equitable from the start?
00:29:15
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:29:16
Speaker
From the start, is he looking to contribute to your life?
00:29:19
Speaker
And one thing, here's one way you can determine this.
00:29:23
Speaker
If you are going to get married and you feel it's been rushed, or even if you haven't feel it's been rushed, I really think more and more women need to start taking advantage of the legal system and having prenups and postnups drafted.
00:29:35
Speaker
If he is willing to have a legally binding document drawn up that guarantees you come out better on the other end of the marriage than you came in, that I think is a green flag.
00:29:48
Speaker
But it's very rare.
00:29:48
Speaker
So...
00:29:49
Speaker
Yep.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yep.
00:29:50
Speaker
And I mean, he has to at the very least acknowledge the labor that you're putting in and find a way to tangibly contribute like to that.
00:29:57
Speaker
Besides just saying, good job, sweetie.
00:29:59
Speaker
You know, he has to actually, you know, make you a shareholder in the company, make sure you have a stake in what you're doing.
00:30:05
Speaker
Like there has to be some tangible value beyond just saying you're such a nice wife.
00:30:09
Speaker
Exactly.
00:30:10
Speaker
I don't care if he is working and you quote unquote, you are not working, you're not employed on the job market.
00:30:17
Speaker
If he buys a home and your name isn't on the mortgage, leave.
00:30:22
Speaker
Yep.
00:30:22
Speaker
I mean, and you have to be careful as well, because I know at some point we may have to talk about her too, but what's her name?
00:30:28
Speaker
Hannah Neely, the ballerina farm girl.
00:30:31
Speaker
Oh, Hannah Neelman.
00:30:33
Speaker
He Neelman.
00:30:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:34
Speaker
Neelman.
00:30:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:34
Speaker
Right.
00:30:35
Speaker
She's one of the situations that I think of when I think about the fact that the guy who's like the heir of JetBlue is essentially profiting off of her labor and the company ballerina farm is under his name.
00:30:46
Speaker
She isn't even a stakeholder in the brand that she's building for him.
00:30:49
Speaker
She's the name.
00:30:50
Speaker
She's the face.
00:30:50
Speaker
She brings in all the money.
00:30:52
Speaker
She brings in all the revenue.
00:30:53
Speaker
The people are watching her videos, but it's her husband that ends up collecting the check because it's all registered under him.
00:30:59
Speaker
Even in the interview that she did with that Times lady, the only time she could get a quote from her directly was when the guy was out of the room.
00:31:06
Speaker
So he owns her entire likeness and is able to profit off of her
00:31:11
Speaker
Much in the same way that the studios are doing with actors now, where it's like, hey, can we just pay you 250 bucks to like, you know, develop AI and then use your likeness for the rest of our lives?
00:31:20
Speaker
It's like only a man could have come up with that.
00:31:22
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:31:24
Speaker
With this Hannah Nealman situation, you know, it reminds me a little bit of Ike and Tina Turner.
00:31:29
Speaker
I remember watching a documentary where he confiscated all of her earnings, all of her costumes, the entire repertoire that she'd built up.
00:31:38
Speaker
The only thing she was able to walk out of that relationship with was her own fucking name.
00:31:44
Speaker
Yep.
00:31:44
Speaker
Tina Turner.
00:31:45
Speaker
That's all she got from the end of it.
00:31:47
Speaker
And it wasn't even her real name, but it was her stage name.
00:31:50
Speaker
And she refused to let it go because she knew with that she could generate more revenue for herself in the future.
00:31:55
Speaker
But I'm still pissed about that for Tina.
00:31:57
Speaker
I will eternally be pissed about that.
00:31:59
Speaker
Yep.
Empowerment through Divorce
00:32:00
Speaker
Sometimes it's members of your own family that do it.
00:32:02
Speaker
Like Britney Spears' dad basically profited off of her likeness for decades.
00:32:06
Speaker
And she's probably a good example of like, sometimes you can be a celebrity woman and be a starter wife because Federline basically used her and like her income to secure a cushy life for himself where he didn't have to get a job at all.
00:32:19
Speaker
Like, I think this is the first year that he's not going to get a $40,000 payout from her per month because one of her kids is turning 23.
00:32:26
Speaker
And so she gets to reduce her child payments to him.
00:32:29
Speaker
And she's like, this guy has never had a job.
00:32:31
Speaker
He's like a lazy bum scrote who's never had a job and never had to have a job because his so-called starter wife was Britney Spears.
00:32:39
Speaker
You know, he had the woman who worked hard and made all the money.
00:32:42
Speaker
And she was basically like the donkey of her family in terms of keeping her family rich and keeping this like no good man who she's been married to for like, what, two years?
00:32:51
Speaker
I don't even think they lasted that long.
00:32:52
Speaker
They're like months, you know?
00:32:54
Speaker
And yeah, so like being a star wife is a dangerous prospect for you because you stand a chance to lose your entire livelihood.
00:33:01
Speaker
We're not just talking about like you lose money one time.
00:33:03
Speaker
You could lose your entire livelihood in the process of being somebody's star wife.
00:33:07
Speaker
And this is why
00:33:08
Speaker
You have to be willing to walk away at any point.
00:33:13
Speaker
And I think what's really interesting right now is that Cardi B just filed for divorce.
Commitment and Timelines in Relationships
00:33:18
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:33:20
Speaker
And now she's pregnant, too.
00:33:22
Speaker
And she's pregnant.
00:33:23
Speaker
And this is my whole point.
00:33:24
Speaker
You have to be willing to be in your first trimester, in your third trimester, being overdue and still being willing to walk away.
00:33:33
Speaker
Maybe not happy about it.
00:33:34
Speaker
But this is where you really have to prize yourself above all others, including actually not including your baby, because your baby will benefit from you not being attached to such a leech, because all of the resources will go to the child instead of to the man child.
00:33:50
Speaker
So you really have to think about this strategically.
00:33:52
Speaker
And I think as women, of course, we have never been taught to look at marriage as a legal or a business transaction.
00:34:01
Speaker
Men have, they absolutely know.
00:34:03
Speaker
They're not going to admit it.
00:34:04
Speaker
It's just like, you know, when you talked about how romance was invented because these men were like, well, we don't have the money of a Duke.
00:34:10
Speaker
Like we don't have a Dutchie.
00:34:12
Speaker
So we have to woo them with our words, you know?
00:34:14
Speaker
And so this is one thing where, again, like don't believe words, believe actions.
00:34:20
Speaker
Yep.
00:34:21
Speaker
And we're always saying that we're always saying that.
00:34:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:24
Speaker
And we always will.
00:34:25
Speaker
Like if you're dating a law student who has saved up enough money for a down payment on a home and you're a student and he's like, Hey, let's get married.
00:34:35
Speaker
But I want to go ahead and buy this home before we get married.
00:34:37
Speaker
Cause I'm ready to buy now.
00:34:39
Speaker
And you're like, well, I'd really like to be in on this, on this house.
00:34:42
Speaker
If we're going to be married.
00:34:43
Speaker
He's like, no, no, no, no.
00:34:44
Speaker
I'll put you down after we get married.
00:34:45
Speaker
Listen, he's never going to put you down.
00:34:47
Speaker
And look for these tactics that they will use.
00:34:49
Speaker
They buy something major before you get married or you get married, but you never know like what his new job offer ends up being.
00:34:57
Speaker
All of these things, there has to be such utter transparency with finances for you to even begin to trust that he is genuine in his intentions.
00:35:05
Speaker
Yep.
00:35:05
Speaker
And the other way to know is, you know, coming on to our next point as well as the shut up rings is the when they drag up commitment with you because they're like, oh, baby, I'm just building this like, you know, this new visionary company and I just need a little bit more time.
00:35:19
Speaker
And it's only, you know, when my company starts having a revenue of like eight million dollars a year, blah, blah.
00:35:24
Speaker
Then we can think, you know, when he's constantly dragging out commitment to you, that's another way that you know you're being taken for a ride because somebody who is in it to be with you long term is going to be very consistent about where the trajectory of the relationship is.
00:35:36
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:35:37
Speaker
You're going to know where you stand.
00:35:39
Speaker
There's not going to be any doubt.
00:35:40
Speaker
First of all,
Trusting Instincts and Self-Worth
00:35:41
Speaker
if you are the one who's always vying for commitment already, you're being taken for a ride.
00:35:47
Speaker
Boom, there it is.
00:35:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:49
Speaker
If you're the one who has to be asking all the time, like, hey, what are we, are we going to get married?
00:35:53
Speaker
Like, you know, because the thing is, what ends up happening is you wind up being the proud owner of a shut up ring.
00:35:59
Speaker
Oh, it's so true.
00:36:00
Speaker
And what you're talking about is so true.
00:36:02
Speaker
Men have repeatedly and widely declared all over social media, they know within the first two to three months, max six months.
00:36:11
Speaker
Now they might hold off on telling you because they don't want to be seen as a stalker or because they understand that emotionally, these sorts of relationships take time and there's no rush to declare a
00:36:20
Speaker
you know, their undying devotion.
00:36:22
Speaker
But as far as men are concerned, and what they have stated again and again is they know.
00:36:27
Speaker
Now, what you need to be looking for as women, as Diana said, are you the one bringing up?
00:36:33
Speaker
Um, hey, so are we dating exclusively?
00:36:36
Speaker
Are we boyfriend, girlfriend?
00:36:37
Speaker
Boom, it's already done.
00:36:38
Speaker
It's already over.
00:36:39
Speaker
Because you will have no doubt as to his intentions, if he is well intentioned, point blank.
00:36:46
Speaker
And women, this is something we really need to start accepting for ourselves.
00:36:49
Speaker
One thing Diana was mentioning before we got started was really the only obstacle in her life, and I would argue in mine as well, is our limiting self-belief.
00:36:58
Speaker
And I think this really rears its ugly head in relationships because if you are with a healthy man who is well-intentioned, who is stable emotionally and financially, et cetera,
00:37:10
Speaker
It might feel a little weird for you to have this like calm, stable, evenness of affection from a man.
00:37:19
Speaker
You might think, but where are the butterflies?
00:37:21
Speaker
Well, guess what?
00:37:21
Speaker
Butterflies are trauma.
00:37:23
Speaker
Butterflies is your vagal system acting up because in a flight or flight
00:37:27
Speaker
situation.
00:37:28
Speaker
But you haven't been taught that that's what that is.
00:37:30
Speaker
You've been taught that that's the sign of some sort of chemistry of like that ineffable it.
00:37:34
Speaker
There's just something about him.
00:37:35
Speaker
No, it's your it's your like primal system letting you know something is not right.
00:37:40
Speaker
But we mistake it for butterflies and chemistry.
00:37:44
Speaker
And so when you're in these relationships that maybe feel a little dull, maybe it feels a little like, is this it?
00:37:50
Speaker
Just put a pin in that.
00:37:52
Speaker
Don't rush to say this isn't for me.
00:37:54
Speaker
Just put a pin in it to say, huh, this is something I'll revisit in a month or two.
00:37:58
Speaker
But as long as he continues to treat me respectfully, as long as he's generous and constant, maybe I need to give this a chance.
00:38:05
Speaker
Because sometimes what you have to understand is that we women, we will come to love those who love and treat us well.
00:38:12
Speaker
It's in our nature.
00:38:13
Speaker
I don't know if that's like a whole like gendered thing.
00:38:15
Speaker
But like, as far as I'm concerned, we are built so that if somebody shows love to us, oxytocin kicks in.
00:38:23
Speaker
and bonding kicks in.
00:38:24
Speaker
It's literally how our hormones are wired.
00:38:26
Speaker
And
Overcoming Self-Limiting Beliefs
00:38:27
Speaker
so I think oftentimes, we're so quick to abort things and to cut it short, especially with like, I'll just be back on Tinder.
00:38:33
Speaker
Like, don't do that.
00:38:34
Speaker
Give yourself some time.
00:38:36
Speaker
Just take notes about why you might feel slightly uncomfortable, or you might feel like something is off.
00:38:41
Speaker
Well, because you know, he's giving me flowers too much or
00:38:44
Speaker
you know, he texts faster and responds faster than I do.
00:38:47
Speaker
Like, oh, he's more into me than I'm into him.
00:38:49
Speaker
Like all of these things are potentially areas where women might say, okay, that's enough.
00:38:54
Speaker
And I'm going to end it.
00:38:55
Speaker
I just encourage you to exercise good judgment and allow time to tell because things will out with time.
00:39:05
Speaker
Those aren't butterflies.
00:39:07
Speaker
That's just your anxiety talking.
00:39:08
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:12
Speaker
They are not butterflies.
00:39:13
Speaker
Stop it.
00:39:14
Speaker
It's just anxiety.
00:39:15
Speaker
It's just I don't know what the hell this is.
00:39:17
Speaker
And so I'm just going to, you know, girl code this entire scenario into being a positive thing.
00:39:24
Speaker
It's not a positive thing.
00:39:26
Speaker
You know, I trade butterflies for stability any old day.
00:39:30
Speaker
especially with these, you know, being somebody's forever girlfriend and like the shut up rings and stuff, right?
00:39:35
Speaker
The fact is that they'll always come up with excuses to delay committing to you, right?
00:39:40
Speaker
And years will drag out.
00:39:41
Speaker
Like, I honestly don't think you should be in any relationship with a person for more than two years if it's not leading to marriage.
00:39:47
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:39:47
Speaker
Because if you feel like you spent one year with a person and you get out because they're unwilling to commit to you, you just lost a year of your life.
00:39:54
Speaker
If you stay with a person for 10 years in the hopes that they will change their mind about you and will suddenly deem you worthy of committing to, you have now wasted 10 years on a person who's probably not going to be that committed to you in marriage anyway, because you were just worth the one for them.
00:40:06
Speaker
They were just shopping around, hoping to see if there was someone better that came along and that person didn't.
00:40:10
Speaker
And so now they're choosing to settle with you.
00:40:12
Speaker
And why should you settle for being somebody's option?
00:40:15
Speaker
Why make someone a priority when they make you an option?
00:40:17
Speaker
Never do it.
00:40:18
Speaker
Never do it.
00:40:19
Speaker
Trust and believe that your value is so much more than even you yourself believe.
00:40:24
Speaker
I think that's where we have to start coming to edit as a strategy is like,
00:40:27
Speaker
You know, they always say fake it till you make it, which I have some issues with that mostly due to like capitalist work culture and this and that.
00:40:34
Speaker
But in this regard, I think this is a valid premise for us in dating, like fake it till you make it act like you're the most valuable, precious jewel in the cosmos.
00:40:44
Speaker
Like there is no other like you, no one else gleams and twinkles and shines like you do.
00:40:51
Speaker
And so you have to find the absolute perfect setting for you in order for like the fullness of your beauty to truly be showcased and encouraged, right?
00:41:00
Speaker
Like you don't put a diamond and aluminum foil band, right?
00:41:05
Speaker
You simply would never consider that.
00:41:06
Speaker
And so you have to start thinking about yourself as like this beautiful diamond.
00:41:09
Speaker
And listen, I know it sounds like, Oh, women, girl part.
00:41:12
Speaker
No, what I'm saying is as a human, you have not been taught to value yourself.
00:41:16
Speaker
Right.
00:41:17
Speaker
And so you have to start overcoming these self-limiting beliefs, these limitations we place on ourselves, which only lead to the worst prophecies coming true.
00:41:26
Speaker
That's exactly why you end up with these scrotes.
00:41:28
Speaker
Oh, well, I don't deserve any better.
00:41:29
Speaker
This is as good as it gets or like, oh, I have stretch marks, so I don't deserve love.
00:41:34
Speaker
Oh, Diana, why don't you talk about this scenario that you just had with?
00:41:38
Speaker
Yep.
00:41:38
Speaker
I was just about to bring that up.
00:41:40
Speaker
Would you please?
00:41:41
Speaker
Rose and I were having this discussion before we started recording, but you know, I was on holiday a couple of weeks ago and I was in the car talking to another woman who's a filmmaker and who was telling me about her experience working in the film industry.
00:41:54
Speaker
And she was telling me, you know, for the longest time, she was the only woman on set.
00:41:57
Speaker
And like, we were just talking about how terrible the men are in our country.
00:42:00
Speaker
Right.
Rejecting Perfectionism
00:42:01
Speaker
And this Uber driver who was driving us got really riled up and he was like, well, you're not so perfect.
00:42:07
Speaker
And I was like, okay,
00:42:08
Speaker
Let me just present to you why this is a very stupid argument, because I have often heard women bring this up as well when they're trying to justify their men cheating on them or treating them poorly.
00:42:16
Speaker
It's like, well, I know he's got flaws, but I'm not perfect.
00:42:19
Speaker
Okay, this is why this is a stupid argument, right?
00:42:21
Speaker
Just because you are not perfect does not mean that you deserve to be treated like shit.
00:42:26
Speaker
does not mean that you deserve to be dehumanized and degraded or raped.
00:42:29
Speaker
Like, okay, I'm not perfect.
00:42:30
Speaker
Thus, it's completely okay for my boyfriend to cheat on me is a very stupid argument.
00:42:35
Speaker
Because by that logic, the male logic of like, oh, you're not perfect.
00:42:39
Speaker
So you don't deserve good treatment.
00:42:40
Speaker
If that were true, then none of the men would deserve to get married because none of them are perfect either.
00:42:45
Speaker
Hello.
00:42:46
Speaker
Hello.
00:42:46
Speaker
Can you make it make sense?
00:42:48
Speaker
Right?
00:42:48
Speaker
Oh, because you're not perfect.
00:42:49
Speaker
Then that means you should have the worst person possible in your life.
00:42:52
Speaker
Like what?
00:42:52
Speaker
Make that make sense.
00:42:54
Speaker
You don't need to be perfect to know that a you're worthy of love, but also the way that we love the way that women love is very community oriented.
00:43:01
Speaker
You need to look at the ways that you love the people in your life in an existing capacity, right?
00:43:05
Speaker
Like how do you love your mom?
00:43:06
Speaker
How do you love your friends, your grandmother, your pets?
00:43:08
Speaker
You have the capacity to love.
00:43:10
Speaker
You're just making sure that you invest it in the right place.
00:43:14
Speaker
That's all.
00:43:15
Speaker
So it doesn't matter if that expression of that love is perfect or not, because it will never be for anyone.
00:43:20
Speaker
Nobody is perfect.
00:43:21
Speaker
Like this is the way that men try to trick you and settling for less.
00:43:24
Speaker
And this is how you know you're being taken for a ride that anytime you choose to talk about your standards.
00:43:28
Speaker
And in that car ride, I was talking about my standards, right?
00:43:30
Speaker
I was like telling this lady about how, you know, the kinds of standards I have for a man in my life and like the kinds of men I refuse to date.
00:43:37
Speaker
And I just refuse to date broke men.
00:43:38
Speaker
For example, I refuse to date men who are not ambitious because these are things that are really valuable to me.
00:43:43
Speaker
And this guy was like, no, you just haven't dated men from my culture.
00:43:46
Speaker
You're not perfect anyway.
00:43:48
Speaker
So and I was like, okay, so because I'm not perfect, I started asking him.
00:43:50
Speaker
I was like, when did I say that I was perfect, though?
00:43:52
Speaker
At what point in my conversation did I say I was perfect?
00:43:54
Speaker
So I deserve perfect men.
00:43:56
Speaker
And also you're assuming that because this man has money and has a stable job and career that he's perfect.
00:44:00
Speaker
No, no.
00:44:01
Speaker
Just because he's got money and just because he's like a loaded guy and he's good looking and stuff, it does not make him perfect.
00:44:07
Speaker
Nobody is perfect.
00:44:08
Speaker
So if we're operating with this baseline of nobody is perfect, if you're saying that the only way that people deserve good relationships is if they're perfect, then nobody deserves a good relationship.
Setting Boundaries with Family
00:44:16
Speaker
know so it was really funny because i was literally in that conversation this woman telling her about how men don't know how to not butt their nose into conversations that don't concern them and that's the first thing that this guy did of course of course of course oh my gosh and this is why i've really stopped liking taxis because it's like i swear to god there's a sign on my head or maybe it's just simply because i'm a woman if i get into any car with a man as a driver
00:44:38
Speaker
He wants to tell me his entire life story.
00:44:40
Speaker
He wants all of my attention and focus on him.
00:44:43
Speaker
And he wants to just like feed at the nipple of my nurturing soul.
00:44:48
Speaker
Right.
00:44:48
Speaker
Maybe this is another way of putting it.
00:44:50
Speaker
If you have a hard time as a woman, as a human being, thinking that you're amazing and wonderful and this like brilliant jewel in the ecosystem, let's abstract this a little bit.
00:44:59
Speaker
And let's think about the power of love.
00:45:02
Speaker
And let's also think about the power of your own thoughts, right?
00:45:05
Speaker
If you start your sentences with, I am not perfect, so I am not perfect, thus, then those sentences end with, I am not perfect, so I deserve mistreatment.
00:45:16
Speaker
As opposed to, I may not be perfect, still, I deserve good treatment.
00:45:22
Speaker
I may not be perfect, and I don't give a shit.
00:45:26
Speaker
Yes.
00:45:27
Speaker
And here's the other thing.
00:45:28
Speaker
If part of the reason that this language is so deeply rooted in your psyche, part of it is because probably you were brought up in a family that made you feel this way.
00:45:39
Speaker
And that made that message explicit time and time again.
00:45:42
Speaker
I don't know if I brought this up before, but I think I've mentioned that I'm from an extremely conservative family.
00:45:47
Speaker
Like my dad, we're still alive.
00:45:48
Speaker
He would be Trump's number one fan.
00:45:50
Speaker
And in fact, the first time I actually heard Trump speak, I had to turn the TV off because he
00:45:56
Speaker
He actually sounds a lot like my dad sounded.
00:45:58
Speaker
And I was just like immediately triggered.
00:46:00
Speaker
But so one of my brothers has just swallowed hook, line and sinker, that whole premise and that whole lifestyle.
00:46:06
Speaker
And unfortunately, even though he has two wonderful boys who I have loved being an auntie to,
00:46:11
Speaker
He has a wife who I've also really come to love as my sister-in-law.
00:46:14
Speaker
I've simply had to cut all of them out of my life because he is so hateful.
00:46:20
Speaker
He is simply so hateful and contemptuous and dehumanizing of me that I have had to choose my own self-worth and my own happiness in this life.
00:46:30
Speaker
And that's been extremely hard because I'm somebody who is so pro family.
00:46:34
Speaker
I mean, I've just got, I'm a very loving person.
00:46:37
Speaker
In fact, it can be too much for a lot of people.
00:46:38
Speaker
I've had to learn to temper it, you know, depending on the audience and the worthiness of those who I'm giving it to.
00:46:44
Speaker
But it's been one of the hardest decisions of my life to actually decide, you know what, after the last time where he was screaming in my face at Christmas dinner, which I had spent two weeks getting ready,
00:46:56
Speaker
about how I was such an idiot for believing in climate change.
00:46:59
Speaker
I was like, you know what, I think it's time for me to start choosing me.
00:47:02
Speaker
And so, as Diana said, if you have this sort of grammatical structure, well, I'm not perfect, so I can't ask him to be either.
00:47:11
Speaker
Or yes, he cheats on me.
00:47:13
Speaker
But you know, I really love romance novels.
00:47:15
Speaker
And so I'm cheating in my heart, anything where you are finding ways to justify and equivocate, what you feel are your feelings, and draw a direct line to his like, it's somehow the equivalent, you need to stop that right now, you need to look at the relationships that you have or have had that have created those language patterns in your brain.
00:47:34
Speaker
because it's going to take a long, long time to unroot them, to uproot them.
00:47:39
Speaker
And even now, I'm still in therapy, because I'm still dealing with this legacy of self hate for being a woman for daring to be have been born a woman in the family I was born into, because there was no greater sin than not being a male.
00:47:52
Speaker
Yeah,
Exploitation in Arranged Marriages
00:47:53
Speaker
I think that a lot of women around the world have been taught that they need to be valuable in order to be worthy of love.
00:48:00
Speaker
Right.
00:48:00
Speaker
And so they have to be useful to the male gender.
00:48:02
Speaker
They have to be a good cook.
00:48:03
Speaker
They have to be a good wife.
00:48:05
Speaker
And we're kind of indoctrinated into that from a really early age.
00:48:08
Speaker
Like when you're a kid, if you want to keep your hair short, people will say no, but men like it when your hair is long.
00:48:14
Speaker
And so you're always kind of aware of like the male gaze in your life.
00:48:17
Speaker
Like, oh, you know, I used to hear a lot when I was a kid.
00:48:19
Speaker
I mean, I like cooking, but I just don't like cooking for men because I just don't think they appreciate it enough, you know?
00:48:23
Speaker
And so I just don't.
00:48:24
Speaker
And I'm very specific about that.
00:48:26
Speaker
Well, I would only cook for my husband.
00:48:27
Speaker
I cook for my friends and I have one male friend and I cook for him and he's like, how come you cook for me though?
00:48:31
Speaker
And I was like, because you're very firmly in the friend zone.
00:48:33
Speaker
And so you should take it as that.
00:48:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:39
Speaker
Damn, Diana.
00:48:40
Speaker
I love it.
00:48:40
Speaker
Oh, it's so ruthless.
00:48:42
Speaker
There's no hope for you.
00:48:45
Speaker
So enjoy your meal and shut up.
00:48:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:51
Speaker
So when I was growing up, you know, women would tell us, you know, our mothers and aunts and stuff would be like, well, you know, you need to learn to be a good cook.
00:48:57
Speaker
Otherwise, your husband is not going to be happy.
00:48:58
Speaker
You need to learn how to clean your husband.
00:49:00
Speaker
So we kind of grew up thinking like nobody has to come out to you and say, hey, you need to be valuable for people to love you.
00:49:06
Speaker
Right.
00:49:06
Speaker
But that's what you imply.
00:49:07
Speaker
That's the message.
00:49:09
Speaker
And it's also cemented in by capitalism.
00:49:11
Speaker
Right.
00:49:12
Speaker
Because in capitalism, you are nobody until you produce something valuable.
00:49:15
Speaker
So we live in a culture that just advocates for that.
00:49:19
Speaker
I think that what we need to leave our audience with is that when we talk about how do you know you're being taken for a ride?
00:49:24
Speaker
You know, you're being taken for a ride when you're giving way more than you're getting baseline.
00:49:28
Speaker
You know, when you start to feel taken for granted, you are.
00:49:32
Speaker
You've already done been taken for granted by the time you wake up to it.
00:49:35
Speaker
Mm hmm.
00:49:36
Speaker
Yeah, it's like, you know, I think it was Ryan Gosling who said, if you're thirsty, you're already dehydrated, essentially.
00:49:42
Speaker
And that's what it is.
00:49:43
Speaker
It's like, if you're already feeling the pinch of, hey, I'm giving too much, you have already been taken advantage of.
00:49:47
Speaker
You're just now feeling okay to vocalize that.
00:49:51
Speaker
And hey, maybe if we're having a hard time coming around to this realization, maybe one way we could look at it is, well, if I have to be valuable in order to be worthy to be loved, I have to do these XY services in order to demonstrate again and again that I am worthy of continuing to be loved.
00:50:07
Speaker
How about you take that same logic and spin it around in the mirror?
00:50:11
Speaker
Is he valuable?
00:50:12
Speaker
being worthy of love, is he providing access service that make him continually able and worthy of being loved from your end?
00:50:20
Speaker
Okay, so if you think you have to be so valuable in order to be loved, what is he doing to also demonstrate that in return?
00:50:27
Speaker
Yes.
00:50:27
Speaker
Hold him to the same standard, right?
00:50:29
Speaker
Because if you have to be valuable to be loved, then he needs to start picking up a dish and washing some pants.
00:50:33
Speaker
Like he needs to start being valuable like now or yesterday.
00:50:37
Speaker
Yesterday.
00:50:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:38
Speaker
Yesterday is the best time.
00:50:41
Speaker
And then today is the next best time.
00:50:45
Speaker
And that brings us to our final scenario, which I feel is a particularly pernicious scenario.
00:50:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:51
Speaker
Baby trapping.
00:50:52
Speaker
Yes.
00:50:53
Speaker
I think the one person that does embody everything we just spoke about today is actually the ballerina farm girl.
00:50:59
Speaker
Completely.
00:51:00
Speaker
You know, in that, yes, in some ways she displays the starter wife thing in the situation that like she's the one who's building all the value for the brand, but he's profiting off of it.
00:51:11
Speaker
And she has no escape from leaving.
00:51:13
Speaker
She wasn't a shut up ring scenario, but he basically told her to like cut off her dreams of being a ballerina to marry him within a year.
00:51:20
Speaker
I saw this video recently where she wanted to go to Greece and he got her like an egg, a really hideous, like an egg apron or something.
00:51:26
Speaker
And like, this is a guy that like on his first date with her, because he's the heir of JetBlue, he like finagled his way into getting a seat right next to her on a flight.
00:51:34
Speaker
So it's not like he isn't capable of getting flights to go wherever the hell he wants and sit next to whoever he wants.
00:51:40
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:51:40
Speaker
He's got money.
00:51:41
Speaker
This man comes from money and still feels the need to extract her labor to build his brand.
00:51:46
Speaker
And finally, like, you know, it's harder for her to escape because one aspect of it is that he has so much control over her brand and the monetization of her brand.
00:51:53
Speaker
But because he's baby trapped her and because they're Mormon, and maybe you can speak a little bit more to this, because if I'm not mistaken, as you said, you're from a conservative background.
00:52:00
Speaker
But also, I don't know if you are from a hyper religious background.
00:52:03
Speaker
I don't know if that can be assumed.
00:52:05
Speaker
Hyper religious.
00:52:06
Speaker
Yes, like very Catholic, actually, background, which I equate the Catholic Church with the Mormon Church in that they are both extremely insidious cults.
00:52:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:14
Speaker
And like in her situation, she was baby trapped as well, because if I'm not mistaken in Mormonism, like a woman's primary role is seen as being the mother figure and like, you know, to produce children without having any kind of aid.
00:52:25
Speaker
So they're not supposed to be using condoms or any kind of birth control and stuff.
00:52:31
Speaker
And so if God wants them to have children, they just have to have children.
00:52:34
Speaker
And he also prevented her from having epidurals like during her pregnancy.
00:52:38
Speaker
So it was only in her last pregnancy, the eighth one, mind you, she did seven without an epidural.
00:52:43
Speaker
It was only the eighth one that she got to do one because he wasn't in the room.
00:52:46
Speaker
So he
Resisting Gender Oppression
00:52:47
Speaker
really controls her body in a way that is like a Republican's wet dream, I would assume.
00:52:51
Speaker
100%.
00:52:54
Speaker
Well, I mean, basically, their entire Republicans entire agenda is based off of the most conservative tenets of any Abrahamic religion, right?
00:53:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:03
Speaker
And so I think that you're right.
00:53:05
Speaker
It is the clearest cut example of trapping people.
00:53:09
Speaker
that we can see in today's contemporary cultural circuit.
00:53:12
Speaker
And what's interesting is I had never actually heard about her because that's just not the content I consume.
00:53:17
Speaker
I guess there has been a rise in like trad wife content because hyper capitalism is crushing everybody's dreams.
00:53:23
Speaker
And so of course it looks amazing to have somebody making up, whipping up their own lemon meringue and like getting the eggs from the chicken coop that's, you know, in this beautiful mountain range.
00:53:32
Speaker
But like all of this is money.
00:53:34
Speaker
It's either, it's either money and, or it's extremely hard labor.
00:53:37
Speaker
In the case of Ballerina Farm, it's both.
00:53:39
Speaker
Yes.
00:53:40
Speaker
And I mean, she's one of those situations in which it's a conscious choice by her husband to keep her trapped in that way because he's got the money and resources.
00:53:46
Speaker
She doesn't even have nannies.
00:53:47
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:53:48
Speaker
He's got the money and resources to provide her with all of that and more because he's an heir to a huge fortune and he chooses not to do it.
00:53:55
Speaker
And this is what we're talking about in terms of like, how is a man adding value to your life?
00:53:59
Speaker
Just because he's rich does not mean we don't want you to marry rich men.
00:54:02
Speaker
We want you to marry generous men.
00:54:04
Speaker
There's a difference.
00:54:05
Speaker
Correct.
00:54:06
Speaker
Correct.
00:54:07
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:54:07
Speaker
This is what I'm always preaching.
00:54:09
Speaker
Find yourself a generous man.
00:54:11
Speaker
Do not worry about wealth.
00:54:12
Speaker
Wealth will come because you know what?
00:54:13
Speaker
Men are always going to benefit and advantage from having you in his life.
00:54:17
Speaker
Your creative energy, your love, your support will take him to heights he could not achieve without you.
00:54:23
Speaker
They know it.
00:54:24
Speaker
It's time for you to start understanding that as well.
00:54:27
Speaker
But with Ballerina Farm, you know, this is a man who hates her.
00:54:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:54:30
Speaker
Okay.
00:54:31
Speaker
He hates her.
00:54:32
Speaker
She's everything he wishes he could be.
00:54:34
Speaker
So he distorts it.
00:54:36
Speaker
He monetizes it and he demonizes her and punishes her in her own life for daring to be simply who she was born to be.
00:54:44
Speaker
And this is why I really get worried about baby trapping, because oftentimes this is men who believe like Eve caused Adam to sin and to fall out of favor with God.
00:54:55
Speaker
So women need to be punished eternally because women are the cause for them having fallen from the favor of God.
00:55:01
Speaker
In other words, he intentionally has her continually giving birth because this is her punishment.
00:55:06
Speaker
This is her sin for having been born a woman.
00:55:08
Speaker
And so her punishment on this earth is giving birth to as many children as possible without any aid, whether it's painkillers or nannies or even a wet nurse to help at night, right?
00:55:20
Speaker
Yep.
00:55:20
Speaker
And some men's dreams is to take your dream away.
00:55:24
Speaker
I think it was Trevor Noah's awesome mom who said this.
00:55:26
Speaker
Actually, it wasn't Trevor Noah.
00:55:28
Speaker
It was his mom who said that some men are like exotic bird collectors.
00:55:31
Speaker
Their dream isn't to catch like a domesticated bird.
00:55:34
Speaker
Their dream is to catch like a wild bird and put her in a cage.
00:55:38
Speaker
And that's what he did.
00:55:39
Speaker
He trapped this
Misleading Tradwife Content
00:55:40
Speaker
wild ballerina.
00:55:40
Speaker
She's the ballerina on his nightstand.
00:55:42
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:55:43
Speaker
He loved the fact that he could destroy her dreams.
00:55:46
Speaker
And that was part of the rush for him.
00:55:48
Speaker
Don't underestimate that for many of these men, the erosion of your dreams and your hopes is actually part of the thrill of the chase for them.
00:55:55
Speaker
They don't care about your dreams.
00:55:57
Speaker
The opportunity to get you to give up your dreams for them gives them an ego rush like no other.
00:56:01
Speaker
They're also self-important degenerates.
00:56:03
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:56:04
Speaker
They see themselves as like the sun of the solar system.
00:56:08
Speaker
And they are going to do everything to make you be the planet that rotates around them.
00:56:12
Speaker
Especially because it's Leo season, it's important for you to consider yourself as your own sun coming from the queen of the Leo department.
00:56:19
Speaker
This is a message.
00:56:22
Speaker
Please tell us, Diana.
00:56:23
Speaker
We need to hear this.
00:56:24
Speaker
We do.
00:56:25
Speaker
A director from the Leo Department of Queens, you are the sun in your own solar system.
00:56:30
Speaker
Let these men rotate around you, okay?
00:56:33
Speaker
right?
00:56:34
Speaker
You're the sun and the moon and the stars.
00:56:36
Speaker
Yes, you are the whole galaxy.
00:56:38
Speaker
So you know, when we compare Hannah Nealman to the other really famous Mormon right now, who's Nara Smith, you know, the thing about Tradwife content is it's such a lie, right?
00:56:47
Speaker
If you look at the advertising in the 1950s for women, and especially with like appliances and stuff, it was always to reduce human effort, right?
00:56:55
Speaker
It was always like, buy this microwave, it will cut your cooking in half.
00:56:59
Speaker
And now it's the appeal is, you know, this thing takes twice as long to do it.
00:57:03
Speaker
But hey, don't you look so good wearing that little apron and picking out your eggs in the garden?
00:57:08
Speaker
And it's like the polar opposite of what they were doing in the 50s, right?
00:57:11
Speaker
Which was to convince the housewife that, hey, this magical appliance is going to make your life that much better.
00:57:15
Speaker
And then maybe you have time for a nap before your husband gets back home.
00:57:19
Speaker
It's a very false ideal as well, because Nara Smith especially gives the impression that, I mean, I'm sure she does make all those things from scratch, but she gives the impression that she's also looking after all four children the way that Hannah Nielman is.
00:57:29
Speaker
And she definitely has nannies and a team and a whole bunch of other stuff that you don't see.
00:57:33
Speaker
And she's not a trad wife.
00:57:35
Speaker
Please don't make the mistake of thinking that because someone makes trad wife content that they are a trad wife.
00:57:39
Speaker
Actually, it's the opposite.
00:57:41
Speaker
Yeah, she's like a total girl.
00:57:43
Speaker
An actual trad wife would never be recording, let alone posting any of this.
00:57:47
Speaker
Yep, exactly.
00:57:49
Speaker
A true trad wife in the traditional sense of the trad wife term would be utterly mortified to have any of this filmed, let alone broadcast, let alone monetized and made into a brand under capitalism.
Debunking False Relationship Ideals
00:58:02
Speaker
Okay.
00:58:03
Speaker
And that's the thing, right?
00:58:04
Speaker
Like men have evolved from being like women and men have extremely gendered roles in society.
00:58:08
Speaker
And it's a woman's job to give birth to kids and look after the house.
00:58:11
Speaker
And it's men's job to go out in the workplace and work.
00:58:13
Speaker
But now women are working as much as they are.
00:58:15
Speaker
And they're also more educated than them.
00:58:16
Speaker
And, you know, they're buying houses at faster rates than them.
00:58:19
Speaker
And this is terrifying men.
00:58:20
Speaker
When you're starting to see all this trad wife content, it's a very conscious push by men to say, hey, we liked it better when you were in the kitchen.
00:58:27
Speaker
OK, because they are fearful of what your actual power is.
00:58:31
Speaker
And they should be.
00:58:31
Speaker
They have every reason to be because it means you won't put up with their bullshit.
00:58:34
Speaker
But please don't be misguided enough to think that because you see these women like, you know, loading in a dishwasher or whatever, like, you know, that they are actually living this life behind the cameras, because even in Hannah Nealman's case, she's definitely genuinely doing this stuff.
00:58:46
Speaker
She genuinely doesn't have a nanny.
00:58:47
Speaker
Like we are watching an exploitation of a woman online being posed as entertainment.
00:58:52
Speaker
You know, but the difference is the reason her husband allows it is because they have a lot to gain from it financially.
00:58:57
Speaker
And that's why they do it.
00:58:59
Speaker
In Nara Smith's case, she is a model.
00:59:01
Speaker
You know, she has her own job.
00:59:02
Speaker
She makes money.
00:59:03
Speaker
She makes legitimate money.
00:59:05
Speaker
So it's not like she's just this trad wife and all she does is make her, what's her husband's name?
00:59:09
Speaker
Lucky Blue or something like that.
00:59:10
Speaker
She's got a strange ass name.
00:59:12
Speaker
But anyway, he's got a strange name.
00:59:14
Speaker
It like, don't assume that like, she's just, you know, spending her days listening to Taylor Swift and making, you know, gumball drops for her husband.
00:59:22
Speaker
That is not reality.
00:59:23
Speaker
And that's the thing is like, we've never before been faced with such an avalanche of reality shows.
00:59:30
Speaker
And I think our brains haven't caught up with the fact that like, this is still fake.
00:59:35
Speaker
This is still crafted and curated and produced and edited.
00:59:40
Speaker
You know, this is not real life.
00:59:41
Speaker
And so I beg of you, please try to avoid having babies with men.
00:59:47
Speaker
who would not allow you to live in the fullness of your life and the realness of being a human being and the beauty of being imperfect, but of being a perfectly loving person, because that is the most valuable thing.
00:59:59
Speaker
That's the most valuable commodity in the world.
01:00:02
Speaker
And no machine or industry will ever be capable of copying it or of constructing it.
01:00:09
Speaker
That only you can do that.
01:00:11
Speaker
AI can't do what we do.
01:00:13
Speaker
And even in terms of the baby trapping, like, please exercise common sense.
01:00:17
Speaker
Like in our first podcast, we said, make common sense common again.
Conclusion: Maintaining Autonomy and Self-Worth
01:00:21
Speaker
And when you know that your own life is that busy, you don't have children, you don't have a boyfriend, it's that hard, right?
01:00:27
Speaker
Right now, we're in the trenches of late stage capitalism.
01:00:29
Speaker
Everybody is working to the bone to put a roof over their heads.
01:00:33
Speaker
If this is the worst that it's going to be for you, like don't add a low effort man and a child to the equation.
01:00:39
Speaker
Because you see these women with eight children and stuff like they usually have help.
01:00:43
Speaker
Maybe not Hannah Nealman, but the rest of them usually have help.
01:00:46
Speaker
These videos that you see online of carefully constructed, extremely beautiful white women cooking in aprons and stuff is just that it's just an image.
01:00:54
Speaker
It's not reality.
01:00:55
Speaker
The reality is that those people have people helping them.
01:00:58
Speaker
And they may have more financial resources than you do to leave.
01:01:01
Speaker
But the thing is, they are falsely perpetuating an ideal that actually sets women up for failure.
01:01:06
Speaker
Because the average woman who has eight children has no capacity to leave.
01:01:10
Speaker
And if she has no career trajectory, if she's never worked, she has no resources to leave either.
01:01:14
Speaker
So don't put yourself into a position where you are trapped because these women are lying to you and you need to exercise common sense.
01:01:23
Speaker
If you know that your existing life is challenging enough, then you need to make sure that if one of your goals is to have children, that you do it to the person who is more than capable of reaching up and fulfilling the tasks expected of him as a father.
01:01:35
Speaker
Of which there are many.
01:01:37
Speaker
That's right.
01:01:38
Speaker
As a father and a husband, because you are never more vulnerable than when you're pregnant and postpartum.
01:01:43
Speaker
And that's another time when con artists will often unmask and descend into their true degenerate selves.
01:01:50
Speaker
And so before that even happens, avoid it at all costs, even if it results in heartbreak because you have to abort a baby.
01:01:58
Speaker
Maybe you're pro-life and you think abortion is wrong.
01:02:01
Speaker
I understand those feelings.
01:02:03
Speaker
But what's especially wrong is bringing a child, an innocent, vulnerable, helpless human being into a situation where they are simply being used as a tool and a cudgel to keep you imprisoned.
01:02:14
Speaker
Yep.
01:02:15
Speaker
And your child is going to grow up internalizing that as well.
01:02:18
Speaker
You know, I don't think we often see how our actions impact our children.
01:02:23
Speaker
I spend my time sometimes babysitting some of my neighbor's kids.
01:02:26
Speaker
And I try to make sure that as much as possible, I set up a good model for them to follow because I know that not all of them will want to follow in their parents' footsteps.
01:02:34
Speaker
And so if they remember 30 years from now, that cool single aunt that lived in the apartment next door, that lived her own life, that lived by her values, that had a great, that she was a fun aunt that they could have fun with.
01:02:45
Speaker
And they know that that's an option for them as well.
01:02:47
Speaker
I have done my job by my actions.
01:02:49
Speaker
And in the same way, the mother that ends up standing up for herself and says, hey, I'm being mistreated by dad.
01:02:54
Speaker
And I don't want to stay in this relationship because I don't want to give my children the wrong impression of what love is and what family is.
01:03:01
Speaker
You're doing so much for your children by walking out.
01:03:04
Speaker
Please don't look like you can't walk out.
01:03:05
Speaker
You're literally healing generational trauma.
01:03:08
Speaker
You are disrupting the legacy of sadness and desolation that so many women before us have had to swallow.
01:03:17
Speaker
And I think that's the most powerful thing that we can do.
01:03:21
Speaker
No is a full sentence.
01:03:23
Speaker
I think a lot of women would do well to remember that the most powerful thing you can say when you're being mistreated is just no.
01:03:29
Speaker
point blank, period.
01:03:32
Speaker
And with that, Diana, we have reached the end of our scenarios to discuss the tricky tricksters and how to spot them.
01:03:39
Speaker
More importantly, how to avoid them like the plague.
01:03:42
Speaker
And most important of all, how to value yourself as a full and individual autonomous human being.
01:03:51
Speaker
You are worthy.
01:03:52
Speaker
You are worthy.
01:03:53
Speaker
And as always, you know, all of the podcasts we're having are ongoing discussions.
01:03:58
Speaker
If there are certain things you feel like we missed out on or that you want us to address and talk about as well, we're more than happy to listen to you.
01:04:03
Speaker
We want this to be an ongoing dialogue with our audience.
01:04:07
Speaker
So feel free to, you know, reach out to us and give us notes as always.
01:04:11
Speaker
And with that, we will end with Rose's inimitable phrase, Scroats!
01:04:16
Speaker
Die mad!
01:04:17
Speaker
Die mad!