Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 38: The sacrifice of Johnathon Thimpsen
53 Plays5 months ago
When the voices start at the age of just three years old, Sandy Charles starts obsessing over the movie Warlock, he does the unthinkable along with 7 year old William Martin. Take a listen to hear what they do. TRIGGER WARNING: it's gruesome.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:16
Eden & Briana
What is up, my lovely bitches? Welcome back. Hello, hello. We're a true crime podcast covering minors who murder with Eden and Brianna. Hi. Hi.
Wildfire Incident and Community Response
00:00:30
Eden & Briana
So remember when I talked about the wildfires? Yeah.
00:00:35
Eden & Briana
So we actually went to Medora yesterday and we went out to eat at Buffalo Gap, which is one that they had to evacuate. ye The fire is total, it's a devastation, total devastation. oh that They actually, but it's kind of a, um there's still good people out there. There's so many good people out there that have come, they lost about a mile or so of fence line for their cattle.
00:01:04
Eden & Briana
And a church group out of Dickinson is volunteering their time and they are out there rebuilding their fence. Wow. Yeah. So there's just people are coming together and it it was kind of, um, kind of warmed my heart that people were yeah jumping in and they didn't even know them people from. Timbuktu. Yeah. And they were willing to take their time. They've been there for quite a while because it's a mile worth of fence that needs to be rebuilt. yep They've been out there for days.
00:01:33
Eden & Briana
That's awesome. Yes. So I, you know, my little, my little heart got a little warm about that. Yeah. Not gonna lie.
Tragic Incident in Texas
00:01:41
Eden & Briana
So in true crime news we have, now this Brianna is gonna, just gonna floor you. It floored me. So in Texas, a 30 year old mother is in custody on suspicion of deliberately dropping her toddler off a hotel balcony and abandoning her on the road. Officers responded to a report of an unresponsive child. When they arrived, police found a 17 month old girl with signs of life. She was transported to a trauma center and died shortly after arriving. Investigators obtained video footage showing the victim fall from the third floor to the ground.
00:02:26
Eden & Briana
The woman is being held without bond on a charge of capital murder.
00:02:36
Eden & Briana
Are you kidding me? No, I'm not. When I read that... How and is it that these women who are blessed with having children can do something like this.
Mental Health Discussion
00:02:55
Eden & Briana
When there are millions of people unable to have children.
00:03:03
Eden & Briana
That would gladly give them a home. More than I guarantee all of those people that are unable to have children would absolutely in a heartbeat take that child. Exactly, exactly. and Did this mother have mental health issues?
00:03:22
Eden & Briana
Well, I don't know. So for more information on this story, you can go to truecrimenews dot.com. I did read the article. um It didn't say anything about mental health, but I'm sure that if we go look up the court date. Because 17 months. It's just a baby, not even two years old. She could still be having postpartum.
00:03:44
Eden & Briana
A year and a half later? Oh, yeah. Oh, really? i don't I didn't have postpartum, so I don't know anything about it. I had it with those. Okay, I don't know. It's awful. Yeah, I don't know. But, but ah it is, it is okay for a mother to walk away. Make sure your child is safe and walk away until whatever is going on stops. Or call somebody, reach out. I've had to do that numerous times with my youngest. Yeah. Because I didn't know all of his medical
00:04:23
Eden & Briana
issues that I was so flabbergasted, so frustrated, I would have to put him, I would have to put his helmet on him and I would put him in his crib and I'd have to take two minutes. Yes, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with walking away and collecting yourself. And it got to the point where if I continued to be frustrated, I would call you. Yep.
00:04:52
Eden & Briana
And you would come taken. Yeah. That's what we're for. There's help out there. You just got to reach. Yeah. There's um that absolutely flabbergasted me. Just, I couldn't. Yeah. So there's that.
Background of La Ronge and Case Introduction
00:05:14
Eden & Briana
So for this episode today, we are traveling to La Ronge, Saskatchewan, Canada.
00:05:22
Eden & Briana
We're taking a hop, skip, and a jump to our northern neighbors. We love our Canadians. We're throwing back to the year 1995. Now, back then, but way back, La Ronge was a fur trading post at one time, but by 1995, it was largely a mining town. In the 2021 census of population conducted by Statistics Canada,
00:05:48
Eden & Briana
LaRange had a population of 2,521 residents. So a little bigger than Garrison. I cannot remember how big Garrison is. I think it's like 1,500 or 1,700. Yeah, so a little bigger than Garrison. So notable happenings in 95 back in our neck of the woods included the Oklahoma City bombing, OJ Simpson's murder trial, the Columbine High School shooting, DVDs were invented,
00:06:15
Eden & Briana
yeah Walt Disney's animated movie Pocahontas was released and the first ever full length computer animated feature film Toy Story was released by Pixar and Walt Disney Pictures. Fashion trends in 95 included plaid flannel shirts, ye crop tops,
00:06:35
Eden & Briana
yeah Still a thing. Fur clothing, which I went to the Western store while I was gone and fur is making, I mean, it's fake, it's faux fur, but it's making its comeback on vests and jackets, and but it's not real fur. It's been coming back for a year or two. So and overalls and chokers, leopard print, track suits, cargo pants, and chunky boots, just to mention a few. Literally all of that stuff is trending right now. I know. Cargo pants.
00:07:06
Eden & Briana
Chunky boots, overalls, track suits, yep all of it yep trending right now. Yep, leopard print. Leopard print. Yep. Oh my land. It's so hilarious to watch this stuff come back. If I would have known then what I know now, I would have never gotten rid of my clothing ever.
Sandy Charles' Background and Influences
00:07:25
Eden & Briana
So on July 6, 1981, Sandy Charles is born to 17-year-old Jean Charles.
00:07:33
Eden & Briana
By the time of his birth, his father, Stan Taylor, was no longer involved with Jean. Now Jean went on to have two more children with two different men, neither of whom would be involved in the lives of the children. Jean and her three children would bounce between her parents' house and whoever she was dating at the time, which was actually five different men during that period. oh None of whom provided any type of stability in the children's lives,
00:08:04
Eden & Briana
When Sandy was only three years old, his father was struck and killed by a drunk driver. And it was at this point in time that Sandy started hearing voices in his head. OK. So just kind of click this in your box. Sandy's family life could be described as complete chaos. I mean, we're talking no stability, no consistency, no. And Jean was mostly absent, you know leaving Sandy to care for his younger siblings.
00:08:34
Eden & Briana
She worked at several bars and was gone late into the night on a frequent basis. So this is putting little, and he's 13, 14 years old. I mean, this is putting Sandy in charge of the children. Sandy is a boy. Sandy is a boy.
00:08:47
Eden & Briana
in Around the age of 13, Sandy starts becoming withdrawn. He struggles making friends his own age and he's very socially awkward. He spends much of his time playing with kids that are actually half his age.
00:09:08
Eden & Briana
whoops books Excuse me, sorry. I don't know what happened. My bad. I didn't need a footer. I hit a button that I shouldn't hit. Uh-oh. Now you're lost? Well, I don't know. We'll see if it works out. um One of his teachers described him as a, quote, quiet boy with a vivid imagination that sometimes runs to the bizarre, unquote.
00:09:35
Eden & Briana
Sandy was engrossed in science fiction and fantasy. His mental health, I might have accidentally deleted something. I'm going to put the spinner. I'm not sure if I deleted something or not. But anyway, his mental health seemed to be rapidly declining. He would sit for hours in his dark room just staring at his feet.
00:10:01
Eden & Briana
What he didn't reveal to his mother is that the voices in his head are telling him to do horrific, unthinkable things. oh So I'm gonna take a little drink, cause I have a, I have a, have a thing, a frog. And his mom is aware of all these things, right? Yes. Okay. Pause.
00:10:28
Eden & Briana
So she was aware. Yes. Sorry about that, guys. We had a little, you know, we were recording and she walked in. You okay?
00:10:39
Eden & Briana
You good? Yeah. Okay. Are you feeling any better? A little better, but it's weird. You'll have to forgive my daughter. She's not feeling good. Yeah. Sorry if I'm not my peppy self. When Sandy discovers the movie Warlock, which is a 1991 movie,
00:10:57
Eden & Briana
He's fixated. He watches the movie over again and again. Now I myself had never watched this movie, so I had to Google it to get the lowdown, kind of the outline of it. So basically, according to Google AI, this warlock is captured by a witch hunter and he's sentenced to death for his crimes. But before execution is carried out, he calls upon Satan who saves him.
00:11:25
Eden & Briana
The warlock is on a mission to reassemble a witch's Bible that will reveal the true name of God. To accomplish this, he requires the ability to fly, which requires him to sacrifice an unbaptized virgin boy, render his fat and drink it. online Sandy is absolutely obsessed with this movie and he shares it with his seven-year-old friend, William Martin.
00:11:52
Eden & Briana
with whom he discusses the movie plot with at the elementary school playground. The boys watch Warlock several times together, and the idea of performing a ritual, a sacrifice, really gets them excited. And they move from fantasy to reality, kind of in the blink of an eye. And they decided that they would perform the ritual exactly as portrayed in the movie.
The Murder of Jonathan Timpson
00:12:17
Eden & Briana
Well, not exactly, but they would do the best they could to you know do that.
00:12:22
Eden & Briana
After much thought over two or three days, they believe that they have chosen the perfect boy to sacrifice. I got this froggy and I am so sorry guys.
00:12:35
Eden & Briana
Okay. Any questions so far? Is the mother taking any steps to helping him? That would be a negative.
00:12:48
Eden & Briana
I suppose because of the timeframe. aye I believe probably the timeframe, single mom, we're working all the time trying to. Okay. Yeah. So no.
00:13:02
Eden & Briana
Jonathan George Timpson was born December 30th, 1987 to Cindy Timpson. He's an adorable seven year old who is always happy and smiley. He has that cute missing the two front teeth smile.
00:13:17
Eden & Briana
He loves the Lion King movie and he idolizes Zorro. He enjoys riding his bike, playing baseball, and playing soccer. He also happened to be William Martin's cousin. Jonathan didn't have a father, so the boys thought that also meant that he was not baptized, making him the perfect sacrifice for their ritual, which I thought their thought process was a little interesting on.
00:13:43
Eden & Briana
on that just because he doesn't have a father in the picture mean means that he's not baptized. that was some That kind of struck me as a strange thought process, but seven year old and a 13, 14 year old. So July 8th, 1995,
00:14:02
Eden & Briana
Sandy and William decided would be the day that they would kill Jonathan and perform their intended ritual. In preparation for the ritual, Sandy took a paring knife from his mom's kitchen, found an empty soup can and tore off the label and hid these items under a bush behind his house. Then Sandy asked Jonathan if he would like to play baseball with him and William. Of course, Jonathan happily accepts the invitation. The boys pretend to have lost the baseball in the bushes and Sandy tells Jonathan he'd give him $10 if he could find the baseball. With that said, all three of the boys run into the bushes.
00:14:42
Eden & Briana
When they got deep enough into the bushes, Sandy lured Jonathan closer to him by saying, my hands smell like a skunk, come smell them. And when Jonathan got within Sandy's reach, he puts his hand over Jonathan's mouth and gave his head a quick, hard twist and attempt to break Jonathan's neck. But Jonathan bit down on Sandy's middle finger as hard as he could. Enraged,
00:15:08
Eden & Briana
Sandy pulls out the paring knife and stabs Jonathan four times in the head. He stabs Jonathan again, this time in the jugular vein. Sandy didn't realize how much blood there would be and he didn't want to continue, but William started encouraging him on. Sandy stabbed- William is seven? Yes. And he's encouraging? Yes.
00:15:34
Eden & Briana
Sandy stabbed Jonathan so hard the sixth time that the blade broke off in Jonathan's left eye socket. At this point, Jonathan is still alive. So William hands Sandy a beer bottle, but the bottle shatters as soon as Sandy hits Jonathan with it. So William grabs Sandy an 11 pound rock, which he drops on Jonathan's head.
00:16:01
Eden & Briana
Now, Jonathan is still struggling to stay alive at this point, so Sandy covers Jonathan's mouth and nose with his hands until Jonathan is no longer breathing. Do you want to let that sink in for a second? No, because I'll puke. Yes, ma'am, it's going to get worse.
00:16:19
Eden & Briana
Sandy is covered in blood and has William run up to the house to grab him, but tell him so Sandy can clean himself up. Sandy goes in the house, cleans himself up some more, and gets a new knife from the kitchen, because obviously the other one is still in Jonathan's eye. um The boys return to Jonathan's body to harvest the fat that they need oh excuse me to harvest the fat that they need for the flying potion. Sandy removes strips of flesh from Jonathan's stomach, arms, back,
00:16:56
Eden & Briana
and calves, placing each piece in a soup can with a pair of tongs. They take the soup can back to the house and heat it up on the stove to turn the fat into liquid. Once they liquefy the fat, they pour it into a second soup can, straining out all the remnants of skin that were left over. And then he takes and hides the fat in his basement under the stairs. He washes the tongs and the knife, dries them, and puts them away.
00:17:28
Eden & Briana
Okay. Any questions so far? No. You got nothing?
00:17:45
Eden & Briana
Okay. in Now, this is where it gets a little effed up. But I have to remember the time. This is back in 1990. What do you mean? It's already fucked up. It's going to get even more fucked up right here. Oh, fuck. Because in this day and age, i need to this one never this would never happen in this day and age. So here's how this goes. As far as Jonathan, no one realizes that he is missing until almost 48 hours have passed. How the hell does that happen, you ask?
00:18:22
Eden & Briana
Well, it kind of goes like this.
Search Efforts and Police Investigation
00:18:25
Eden & Briana
Jonathan spent his time between his mom, Cindy, and his grandma, Lydia's house. So if he wasn't at home, he was at his grandparents' house.
00:18:37
Eden & Briana
So it wasn't until Sunday evening when they when Cindy and Lydia ran into each other at the grocery store that they realized Jonathan hadn't been at either house.
00:18:50
Eden & Briana
Where's Jonathan? I thought he was with you. Isn't he with you? No, he's not with me. I thought he was with you. So by this point, this is Sunday evening and this happened Saturday. So you're going into over 24 hours. you're You're pushing the almost 48 hour mark.
00:19:10
Eden & Briana
Quickly realizing that he had been missing since the previous day, they immediately filed a missing persons report. A volunteer group passes out and hangs up missing person flyers and also form a search for the missing Jonathan. Now, guess who helped with the search?
00:19:30
Eden & Briana
If you guessed Sandy and William, you guessed correct. After questioning neighbors, authorities discovered that Jonathan was last seen with Sandy and William.
00:19:42
Eden & Briana
A little concerned that they had left the body unconcealed and out in the open, William tells Sandy the body needs to be moved. So Monday morning, so two days later, because he hasn't been found yet, Monday morning, Sandy moves the body further away from his house and hides him under some bushes in a vacant lot. Now, the RCMP, which if nobody knows, that's the Royal Canadian Mounted Police,
00:20:08
Eden & Briana
They did not get a search organized as quickly as one would think they should. And this kind of really got the community in an uproar. But what the community didn't realize is that they were fielding tips from several callers claiming that they had saw Jonathan. And each one of these leads had to be followed up. So it wasn't that the RCMP wasn't doing anything. They just weren't searching. They were following up on other things.
00:20:37
Eden & Briana
You know, I suppose back then tiny community, limited limited resources, you know, I, I, I'm assuming they were doing the best they could, but there was a lot of hard feelings over that thinking that the RCMP was not doing their job. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure anybody in that situation, like if I would have gone missing at that age and you were the single mom, you would want everything like make it a priority. Do it now. I want this done now. and And we've learned so much more since that time. I mean, this is quite a hot minute ago. So I think nowadays we have a better grasp. We have the Amber Alert, Amber Alert, Amber Alert, we have all of that. Yeah. I think it's different now. But
00:21:36
Eden & Briana
Um, but I could see why they would say that they weren't doing it. Absolutely. Because here's the thing. If you don't see something going on, it doesn't mean it's not. It doesn't mean it's not, but I can see why they felt that way. And a hysterical mother panicked. I can see why I get it. Yeah, I do. No judgment there. Um,
00:22:00
Eden & Briana
On Monday, Sandy was questioned at his home as he was one of the last people to be seen with Jonathan. And Sandy said, you know, he told him, yeah, I seen Jonathan on Saturday. He played baseball with me and William. But during the game, Jonathan got upset and left and he hasn't seen or talked to Jonathan since. Now on Tuesday, police met with volunteers at the town community center and yes, Sandy and William showed up.
00:22:28
Eden & Briana
And they gave an update on the progress of the investigation. And people were encouraged to come forward with any information that they may have no matter how unimportant they felt that it might have might be. And Tuesday evening, Sandy was questioned again. This time he adds more details about Saturday saying he'd hit a ball that accidentally struck Jonathan, which was why Jonathan became upset and left.
00:22:52
Eden & Briana
And Sandy actually takes the end officer or investigator, whatever detective, um I don't know what the correct term is there, but he takes an authority to where they had played that day and he shows him where everyone was located, you know, what bases, he showed them where the bases were. Did they find the blood? Well, no, the bases were still marked with the rocks that they used for bases, with the exception of one of the bases that was absent.
00:23:21
Eden & Briana
Well, if you think about it, that's probably the 11-pound rock that was used. But the officer really paid close attention to Sandy's demeanor and and Sandy wasn't showing anything concerning. So the officer concluded the interview. ah Sandy was calm, cool, collected, not nervous, not anything. This boy had issues. Correct. Oof. Around 7 p.m., the search for Jonathan went, whoops,
00:23:51
Eden & Briana
The search for Jonathan would come to a gruesome end.
Confession and Legal Proceedings
00:23:55
Eden & Briana
Jonathan's mutilated, decomposing body was located just a few lots away from where he had been playing baseball that past Saturday. Now Sandy and William were brought in for formal interview since they were you know with him last and they admitted that they were with him last. They were put in separate rooms and questioned. And at first the boys denied any involvement.
00:24:18
Eden & Briana
but for some reason it wouldn't take long for Sandy to spill the beans. Really? Yep, he confessed. Sandy described every horrific detail to the interview interviewer. He explained that every thousand years, Satan returns to earth and wanting to be one of Satan's disciples, Sandy felt that the sacrifice of Jonathan would please Satan when he returned to earth in the year 2000.
00:24:47
Eden & Briana
Not surprisingly, the officer was quite taken aback by what he was being told. I mean, holy shit, so would I. Yeah, because this is coming from a 13-year-old? I believe he had turned 14, yep. Now, police kept all of the details to themselves. The only thing that was revealed was that they had a suspect. Now, I am going to demolish this name, and I am so sorry.
00:25:17
Eden & Briana
Staff Sergeant Al Wazilinka said, quote, as far as suspects are concerned, we certainly have something in mind, but nothing that we can speak about, unquote. Now, of course, parents are, excuse me, parents are quite uneasy. they They're accompanying their children everywhere and some are not even allowing their children to go outside.
00:25:47
Eden & Briana
And as with all small communities, the rumors run wild and they grow out of control and the fears become very heightened, especially because the police are staying so hush, hush about it. It may, you know, it's almost making everything worse, but they have a reason for, yep, both of them.
00:26:07
Eden & Briana
Finally, the RCMP organizes a meeting so the community could voice their concerns and ask questions. One resident asked, quote, there are a lot of rumors around town that there is a cult related activity. Is there any truth to that? Unquote. The police would not answer that question, citing that this may jeopardize their ongoing investigation.
00:26:30
Eden & Briana
the RCMP responded saying, quote, as a result of our investigation, we feel the community is safe and that this incident is an isolated one, one involving the immediately the immediate people involved, unquote. Now, not all of the the community was happy with the RCMP's response and one member states, quote, if you couldn't answer the question about cults, how do you expect us to feel safe to let our kids out to play, unquote?
00:27:01
Eden & Briana
He reminds the residents that there is a publication band, ban, means, you know, there's a blanket ban. We don't talk about it. We can't talk about it. It's an ongoing investigation. We cannot talk about it. So there's a media ban, a publication ban, there's all of the above. Makes sense. And he actually encourages them to come to court if you want to find out more. You know, go to the court, come to the court.
00:27:29
Eden & Briana
When Jonathan's autopsy is performed, his cause of death is determined to have been due to excessive blood loss due to a skull fracture and a laceration to the jugular vein.
00:27:41
Eden & Briana
Thursday, July 13, 1995, 14-year-old Sandy Charles is arrested and charged with first degree murder. Suspicious cuts on Sandy's hands were photographed, including the bite mark on Sandy's middle finger, which, when compared to Jonathan's dental impressions, was a perfect match.
00:28:00
Eden & Briana
Imagine that. And upon search of Sandy's residence, they discovered bloody clothes, a bloody towel, the knife and tongs, and also the soup can with the rendered fat still in it. The town was shook to the core and many were blaming adults neglecting to get their troubled children help.
00:28:20
Eden & Briana
Others pointed their finger at Cindy and Lydia for not realizing that Jonathan was missing right away. I mean, it's almost as if the community was just outraged and they needed somebody to blame for this. They just needed somebody to blame, whether it be the RCMP, it'd be the mom, it'd be the grandma. But in that day and age, every kid goes through that. I told you I was staying at Devin's. Devin's told her mom that she was staying over at us and we'd freaking camp out.
00:28:51
Eden & Briana
Thanks for telling me. You're welcome. Devon, you're on my shit list. No, she's not. Oh, I love you, Devon. We attempted to run away. I mean, like it's a ah it's a thing that you do. It's like it's almost engraved. But you weren't worshiping Satan and batshit crazy. There's a big difference on what you did and what is happening here. Correct.
00:29:13
Eden & Briana
Huge difference. I messed with the Ouija board once. Never again. Yeah. Nope. Nope. Nope. We don't do that. No ma'am. So this is where this really kind of pisses me off right here. I can't say pisses me off. It just doesn't seem right in Canada. Criminal responsibility doesn't start until the age of 12. So even though William Partaked. Partaked. Well, he, he was part of it. Yeah. With him just turning eight years old, the only one to stand trial will be Sandy. What? Yeah. He, William's not criminally responsible. He got no repercussions. He's not criminally responsible. He's eight years old. No consequences? Nothing. Nothing. Because responsibility, criminal responsibility does not start until the age of 12.
00:30:17
Eden & Briana
So I now do not agree with that. I do not either. But now whether or not the parents got him help or anything like that is unknown. I mean, there was kind of a blanket on it. Yeah, I can suppose find. likes a minor I couldn't find anything. Hopefully his parents got him the help he needed. But like I said, don't have a clue. Wow. So the trial began June 18th, 1996.
00:30:46
Eden & Briana
Sandy pleaded not guilty due to mental incapacity. Now there is absolutely no question about who killed Jonathan. The question posed is whether or not he was in his right mind when he committed the brutal murder. The prosecutor believes Sandy knew exactly what he was doing when he chose to murder Jonathan. However, the defense attorney, Barry Singer, says for a teen to kill a young boy to gain special powers is so bizarre that common sense demands he be found not guilty by reason of insanity. Barry Singer stated, quote, a person operating normally could not do this. It is so bizarre. If he isn't entitled to this defense of reduced mental capacity, I don't know who is, unquote. I can see both sides, honestly. I can too. I get it. I get it.
00:31:45
Eden & Briana
I don't... There is something wrong. There is definitely something wrong. But I almost... i knew i I think he knew what he was doing, but the reason behind it is what is the insanity part. That could be. You know what I mean? Yes, I get what you're saying. there's like more It's multilayered. Yeah. Yeah, I get it.
00:32:12
Eden & Briana
Like he knew what he was doing, but the reason behind it was so he could fly and please Satan when he returns. That's the insanity part. This will kind of follow up right here with what his mom says in court. So Jean tells the court that her son admitted to carrying out this terrible crime, but states he was not in control of his actions at the time. Jean states, quote, he could not stop himself. He said it was like a dream. He didn't want to do it, but it was like,
00:32:41
Eden & Briana
It wasn't him doing it." andquote Now, one of the defense's psychiatric experts testified that he interviewed and tested Sandy over a six hour period and found the boy to be suffering from a delusional disorder with severe personality problems and a very low IQ. Now, when asked if he felt Sandy Charles was dangerous, he replied, quote, I believe he is very dangerous.
00:33:11
Eden & Briana
unquote The prosecution's expert psychiatrist claimed in his 20-year career, the psychosis of Sandy Charles to him is unique. He testifies, quote, I have seen thousands of psycho psychotic people with one exception. I have never seen a psychosis like this one, unquote. It is his belief that Sandy suffers from two bizarre delusions symptomatic of schizophrenia. Now,
00:33:42
Eden & Briana
he's awfully young to be diagnosed with schizophrenia or to have, you know, usually that doesn't show up until later, does it? I don't know. I don't know either. But he said at the age of whatever, he confessed to his mom that his voices were. The voices started after his dad died. Yeah. And that was three? Yes. Yeah. So I mean,
00:34:11
Eden & Briana
I guess anything is possible. Right. Well, I don't know because there's this part that really disturbed me. So wait on me it is also relayed to the judge that Sandy took delight in the notoriety that he gained in the detention center prior to the trial. He seemed to enjoy that others had known about what he had done. So
00:34:40
Eden & Briana
I don't know. ah Attention seeking? I don't know. Considering that is, I mean, I'm not going to sit in arm armchair this, but, excuse me. Considering that he basically had to take care of his siblings and his mom was busy working all the time and whatever.
00:34:59
Eden & Briana
He wouldn't get attention. He wouldn't get attention. He would be the one giving all the attention and not gaining any attention. So I don't know. I mean, a person could dig so deep into this and come up with 20 million different reasons right why he's like the way he is. The trial lasted seven days. Four different expert witnesses agree that Sandy is mentally ill. Three believe that he suffers from schizophrenia. And one suggests he suffers with grandiose delusions. Now,
00:35:28
Eden & Briana
I wanted an explanation because I wanted to present correct stuff here. So I went to the good old Google and Google AI defines grandiose delusions as false beliefs that someone has special powers, wealth, identity, or missions and can also involve and a yeah can also involve an exaggerated sense of self-importance.
00:35:55
Eden & Briana
such as believing one has a higher social status or an extraordinary ability.
00:36:02
Eden & Briana
Dammit, why is this thing doing this to me? Okay. Judge Albright states, quote, now this is gonna get long because we're gonna get into court proceedings because I feel they're pertinent. So, quote, the death of young Jonathan George Timpson was a tragedy that struck the Timpson family and the community of LaRange.
00:36:24
Eden & Briana
Clearly, no verdict that this court renders will in any way diminish the emotional wounds that have followed Jonathan George Timpson's senseless death. Mr. Charles committed the act, but I have further concluded that he was suffering from a mental disorder so as to be exempt of criminal responsibility.
00:36:45
Eden & Briana
In the matter before this court, there is no issue as to whose hand took the life of this young boy. The evidence before me shows that to be the accused, Sandy Charles. The real issue is whether or not Mr. Charles is criminally responsible and whether he is guilty of first degree murder.
00:37:05
Eden & Briana
It is the Defence's primary position that Mr. Charles is not criminally responsible for his actions in the sense that the Defence of Mental Disorder, which is set forth in Section 1 of the Criminal Code of Canada, applies. The secondary position of the Defence is that in the event that Mr. Charles is criminally responsible,
00:37:27
Eden & Briana
and that Section 1 does not apply, that he nonetheless lacked the ability to form the requisite intention to commit the offense of murder, and most certainly lacked the ability to have committed the murder in a planned and deliberate fashion. In the case of Mr. Charles, the issue of of applicability of Section 1 has been raised by the defense, and accordingly, if this the defense is to apply The defense and the accused must prove on the balance of probabilities that at the time of the killing, Mr. Charles was suffering from a mental disorder that rendered him incapable of appreciating either the nature and quality of the act of knowing that it was wrong.
00:38:12
Eden & Briana
Part of the theory underlying section one is that where an accused is found not to be found criminally responsible, That individual is the subject of alternative dispositions which have as their purpose the meeting and balancing of the needs of the accused and the protection of the general public.
Verdict and Community Reaction
00:38:32
Eden & Briana
In summary, one might say that that in a legal sense, disease of the mind embraces any illness, disorder, or abnormal condition which impairs the human mind in its functioning, excluding, however,
00:38:47
Eden & Briana
self-induced states caused by alcohol or drugs, as well as transitory mental states such as hysteria or concussion. In order to support a defense of insanity, the disease must, of course, be of such intensity as to render the accused incapable of appreciating the nature and quality of the violent act of knowing that it is wrong. The true test necessary, sorry you guys,
00:39:17
Eden & Briana
The true test necessary is, was the accused person at the very time of the offense by reason of disease of the mind unable fully to appreciate not only the nature of the act, but the natural consequences that would flow from it? In other words, was the accused person by reason of disease of the mind deprived of the mental capacity to foresee and measure the consequences of the act?
00:39:42
Eden & Briana
Miss Jean Charles, the single parent of the accused, testified as to the upbringing and family life. She and the accused and a second son, Logan Charles, lived together. Of significance are the observations that Miss Jean Charles made of her son in the time approaching the death of Jonathan George Timpson. She found that he was becoming withdrawn from her and exhibited pronounced mood swings.
00:40:08
Eden & Briana
He didn't want to go anywhere, do anything or talk to anybody. He would be happy in one moment and sad the next. And one day in May of 1995, she found him sitting alone in the dark looking at his feet. When she asked what he was doing, he simply replied that he was thinking. This was something that she had never seen him do before. He was also complaining about headaches all the time and that he was tired.
00:40:33
Eden & Briana
he no longer had any friends left, he had chosen to disown everyone except for William Martin. She noted a particular incident on June 11, 1995. When a friend of the accused had a birthday and a party was convened for him, Mr. Charles was invited however he didn't wish to go and throughout the entire incident he simply looked mad. This was markedly different from when he was a younger boy He appeared to be upset or depressed and then he would start laughing for no apparent reason. It was noteworthy enough that Miss jean Jean Charles thought she should take him somewhere to talk to someone about what he was experiencing. During this time, he was also watching certain movies, among them the Highlander series and the two Warlock movies.
00:41:24
Eden & Briana
Following his detention, Miss Jean Charles visited her son at Kilburn Hall, where he was being held at Saskatoon, and she found that he attempted to shut her out from conversation. It was as if he didn't know her anymore. She had commented, I know he is my son, but I don't know him the way I used to. Can you pause for just a minute? That's so sad.
00:41:47
Eden & Briana
So we're just going to take a little break and I'm going to tell kind of a funny story just to lighten the mood for a minute before we get on to the rest of this shit. So I've got two dogs that are like old, like they they could die any day. They're that old. And we happened to be out of town this weekend. the The kids were at home with the dogs and we just went one night and we went to the mut the the Johnny Cash Show and stuff. Yeah. So I'm getting ready to go to breakfast this morning in the motel room and the phone rings and I see it's my daughter. Well, her voice when she said my name was so
00:42:32
Eden & Briana
overly hyper excited, like whatever. The first thing that hit me is which one of my dogs died. her okay i'm that That's the first thing that hit me. My heart hit my stomach. I just like oh i got instantly just shit.
00:42:50
Eden & Briana
Well, that wasn't it. What was it? There was a bird flying around in our frickin' house. Oh no! How'd it get in? Well, at first she tried to blame the cat, but she said, mom, I don't get it because I didn't let the cat outside. So the cat had not been outdoors. So I let that sink into my head for a minute as I'm listening to her. And I'm like, Nova, did you leave the door open for the dogs to go in and out since it's so nice outside? We don't have a doggy door, but sometimes we leave the slider open.
00:43:21
Eden & Briana
And she's like, yeah. And I said, well, that's how your bird got in. So they took the cat. They trapped the bird in Eli's room. They threw the cat in there and tried to get the cat to catch the bird. The cat jumped up and tried to get the bird once, got one feather, and then took off and escaped with that feather in her mouth running across the house. Oh, so she thought she did a good job. She thought she did a good job because she had a feather in her mouth. Finally, them kids. You OK?
00:43:50
Eden & Briana
Yeah. They trapped this bird in Eli's curtain and finally caught it and released it outside. And she's like, mom, it flew away. And I'm like, well, that's good. She only lost one feather. But that was my fun for today. That was my exciting. Oh, thank God. That's the first thing that Oh God, which one of my dogs died, you know? no Yeah. And so then she's like, she was kind of freaked out a little bit. And I said, that ain't nothing. I said Brianna crawled across the house in the dark in the middle of the night to my bedroom. That was in the basement at the time. In an army crawl because there was a bat flying around our freaking house. And I bet, you know, growing up, I thought bats were like affiliated with hell because grandma Dee always said, you
00:44:41
Eden & Briana
I drive like a bat out of hell. You know, or she would say something along the lines of bat out of hell. So growing up, I always thought bats were like there to take me to hell. So that's why army crawled down my bunk bed onto the floor. And I was I was flat as a pancake. And you had to go down all them stairs to my bedroom. On my stomach. On your stomach. Yep.
00:45:07
Eden & Briana
I did that. my god I remember it. So that's what I told them. I crawled all the way up to the side of your bed. um I know. And I'm like, what the hell?
00:45:18
Eden & Briana
Yeah, you were peeking over the edge of my bed. Creepy. It was, you creeped me out more than the bat did. I'm like, oh. here I thought bat was here to take me to hell. That was so ah flipping hilarious. But so I told, I had to tell Nova that story after, you know, what happened to her. And I say, hey, at least it wasn't a bat. Ask your big sister about that one. Oh yeah. She learned how to army call real fast. I sure did. And my brother wouldn't wake up for shit. Well, go figure.
00:45:48
Eden & Briana
Oh, he was in a coma. No, no jokes to people in comas. No, that yeah no, but he was in a sleep coma. It's okay. We don't mean that disrespectfully. People are sensitive.
00:46:04
Eden & Briana
Well, you know what? I'm not. I'm Gen X. I know. Fuck your feelings. ah Just fuck your feelings. Okay. Sorry, Brad. Not really, but okay. um The judge, we're going to get back to it now that we had that little sidetrack of fun. Excuse me. Your excuse. That was a good push. The judge finally gives his verdict, which is not guilty by reason of so insanity for the murder of Jonathan Timpson.
00:46:31
Eden & Briana
Now it is suspected that Sandy will be sent to a secure treatment facility indefinitely due to his decline in his mental state since his arrest.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:46:41
Eden & Briana
Gene confirms his deteriorating mental health saying, quote, he doesn't talk, he doesn't even understand what is going on. When I asked if he understood the verdict, he said he didn't, unquote. Now- Holy fuck. Yep.
00:46:57
Eden & Briana
Judge Albright places the youth's future in the hands of a five-member review board consisting of two psychiatrists, two lay people, which are just two regular people, and Justice G. Edward no Noble, who will chair the review board. They are given 45 days to deal with the case and give their recommendation, which is is which is as follows.
00:47:23
Eden & Briana
Sandy will be assessed by doctors and they will prepare a report for the board, which will report how safe and treatable he is. The board will be examining four factors, the protection of the public, his mental condition, his prospect for reintegration into society, reintegration into society, and his need for treatment.
00:47:47
Eden & Briana
Once the treatment decision is made, the case will be be reviewed every six months. So with that said, Sandy is sent to the Saskatchewan hospital until the board believes that he is no longer a threat. Many community members are outraged.
00:48:05
Eden & Briana
including Cindy Timpson. They believe that Sandy should have been found guilty of first degree murder. And I don't blame them. I mean, she's the mom. I do not blame her for feeling that way. I can see both sides. I too can see both sides. Playing devil's advocate. Yep. I see both sides. I mean, yeah. If somebody took my child away in that manner,
00:48:29
Eden & Briana
Yes, year you're damn right I would want them but to be guilty. They would have to stop me at the court because I would probably be the next one to commit murder. Eye for an eye. Right. And I would be the one in jail. Right. Don't hurt my children. Don't hurt a hair on their heads because I will go to jail. Yeah. And and and that's a fact. But then you put yourself in the other seat. she There's something wrong with her kid. She wants treatment for him. I get it. It's crazy. Uh-huh.
00:49:01
Eden & Briana
It's a fuckity fuck fuck situation we got. How many times you can tell Brad you're sorry for that one? I'm so sorry. I'll give you a big old case of beer or sparkling water. Lies. Lies. Okay. At Christmas time. I'm sick. I can, I can cuss. Okay. So. That's my excuse. So his first couple of reviews came and went with the board deeming it in the best interest of society that Sandy remain in the Saskatchewan hospital.
00:49:31
Eden & Briana
Well, it's but that can kind of be like a jail too. It is kind of. Well, I'll keep going. Because like when we covered San Haven, think about it. yeah They didn't get treated well. No. and And I'll touch on all of that too. Okay. Yes, you're absolutely correct. So so when Sandy was 17 years old, while walking with a therapist outside,
00:49:57
Eden & Briana
Sandy makes a break for it. And by the time help arrives, Sandy's long gone. So the RCMP alerts the public to be on the lookout. They described him as psychotic and dangerous and warned the public not to approach him. 15 hours later, Sandy is spotted walking in a field and is apprehended and returned to the hospital without incident. It's decided that Sandy is too much of a risk to remain in a medium security facility.
00:50:26
Eden & Briana
Therefore, he has moved to regional psychiatric center in Saskatoon, which is a maximum security facility. The offenders in this situation are considered the sickest in the region, all requiring intensive treatment. The cells are concrete and windowless with iron doors. The facility is known for violent deaths and suicides. There's also rumors that the inmates are treated inhumanely.
00:50:55
Eden & Briana
At the age of 18, Sandy finds himself once again in court after attacking a prison nurse. Apparently, he kicked the nurse in the head, knocking her unconscious. For this attack, he is sentenced to one day in solitary confinement. That's it, one frickin' day in solitary. A little concerning. So then also, if you think about it,
00:51:19
Eden & Briana
And I'm not agreeing with the one day solitary. But if you think about it, if you suffer from any type of mental health, that's jail in itself. It's fucking hell. Oh, absolutely. I believe it. It's horrid. The shit that goes through your head is unreal. Yeah, he's probably living in his own personal hell inside his head. Yeah. yeah a You add, um, solitary no, uh,
00:51:56
Eden & Briana
uh, not paranoia, um, schizophrenia on top of mental health. I could imagine. Yeah. And it's maybe even a little bipolar. I i don't know. It kind of, it kind of sounds that way. Right.
00:52:15
Eden & Briana
so But that's hell and jail in itself. Absolutely. so William Martin's life has been kept very private. It is unknown if he was ever given any kind of help nor are his whereabouts known. As far as Sandy, at the time of this episode, I have been unable to locate any updated information since his incident with the nurse in the year 2000.
00:52:41
Eden & Briana
so That concludes this week's episode. So 24 years without yeah no information? Yep. So so hold on. I'm going to run through this spiel so the people that don't want to stick around for us to yak our can go bye-bye. So that concludes this week's episode. If you enjoyed our podcast, please leave us a rate and review. It helps other like-minded true crime lovers find us and also helps us move up the ratings list. So just go do it.
00:53:09
Eden & Briana
We would appreciate it. Yes, we would. And we would love you for it. We love you anyway, but we'd love you even more. If you would like to contact us, you can do so via email at minersamahim at gmail dot.com or through Facebook Messenger. Just type minersamahim in the search bar and hit that follow button. So we're going to open the floor to discussion. So if you don't want to hear us chat and come up with our theories and just whatever, now is your time to exit. And the floor is open, beaners.
00:53:36
Eden & Briana
I think I pretty much said everything that I was thinking as I went on, but I imagine what both families are going through. Losing a child, in in theory, Sandy's mother lost her child too. Oh, you damn right she did. She did. So it's... murder is obviously never okay. Right. But I see both sides.
00:54:07
Eden & Briana
I see the mother's reactions on both sides. I get it. Yeah. I get why Cindy wanted him for first degree murder, because that's exactly what he did. Yeah. And I understand why Gene just wanted her son to be helped. Yep. Because he's mentally sick. I get it. There's no win in this situation. It's just a box-elder bug. That scared me. Isn't it better?
00:54:37
Eden & Briana
There's absolutely no win-win in this story. Every time I see a box elder bug, it reminds me of Gran. Oh, I know. She had so many boxy bugs. She loved them. know So do you think Now, I'm just going off on a guess because like I said, I could not find any update. If our listeners out there, if you come up with some kind of updated information on Sandy Charles, if he's been released, if he's still housed, anything you find, hey, shoot us an email and we'll give an update. But I could not find anything. I don't know if it's because it's in a different country or or did he get out and now he's anonymous.
00:55:23
Eden & Briana
living with a new name? I kind of wondered. Or did he commit suicide? Yeah, we don't know. Is he in jail? We know nothing. officially and And William Martin. I mean, know I kind of couldn't find anything on him either. Due to him being a minor. Yep. I wonder if they didn't give him a name change and relocate and just If that was my kid, I probably would. right If he didn't have to suffer any consequences, I would get his name changed and relocate right without a doubt. yeah Because could you imagine no new being in the same money community being in the same community and your child didn't get anything,
00:56:06
Eden & Briana
yeah no no no so how much hate would you get as that parent? Well, they would probably need to protect him also. Yeah. Not just the parents. Like, would it even be safe to let, I mean, the community was angry. Of course they're angry. Yeah, I would be too. He would probably be ostracized. Nobody would let their kids play with this kid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I see what could happen. Absolutely. Absolutely. So that's my case. You got any other? I thought I was going to puke in the beginning.
00:56:43
Eden & Briana
I warned you it was going to be a rough one. I'll do something lighter next week. because I did two good ones in a row. Yeah. I think we might need a little palette cleanser. Palette cleanser? Yeah. A brain cleanse. Get all the icky's out of there. Yeah. like It's going to take Dawn power spray. Yeah. We're going to have a Dawn power spray episode next week. I had a nightmare the night Oh, this works for you? Oh my, you probably really didn't have one tonight. I can't really remember it because it was like a week ago and I've had a couple since then, but ugh.
00:57:26
Eden & Briana
i My brain sucks. You know, I like the wicked ones. because they make me. I do too. I do too. But they do give me, they're hard to research, especially these children. It's rough. It's rough because I still have an 11 year old boy at home. It's terrible. Well, I think, you know, I think, excuse me.
00:57:53
Eden & Briana
yo but um
00:57:59
Eden & Briana
We've said it a million times before. This is hard what we do. and Very. And Lane, who does, um oh my, Landa. Suffer the little children? Suffer the little, I was gonna say speak of the children. but Suffer the little children. Suffer the little children. What she does is hard too. But then I always think of her quote, if they can go through it, we damn well can listen and tell it. Yep.
00:58:31
Eden & Briana
yeah So our job is very hard. She hasn't had any episodes up lately. I wonder if she's taking a break. she might be because she's said it numerous times herself that she does take breaks she it takes a toll on her oh big time because it's only her doing it and she doesn't do just the podcast either she travels to the grave sites she she does things i mean she's active she's active and and she is added alone she does it all yeah and she's she's amazing
00:59:03
Eden & Briana
yeah I love her too. and Her voice is so nice. I wish my voice sounded a little like this. I know mine too. mine I sound like a mom. yeah You don't. my My voice sounds deeper in my head, but then when I listen to it back, same I sound squeaky. I'm like, what? Is that really my voice? I'm the same way. I feel like I sound like a man in my head. Yeah. Lane does a really wonderful job. And you guys, go listen to her and rate her. She's amazing. What she does is amazing.
00:59:33
Eden & Briana
on and no where where she deep dives dressed as much as we do. We are giving her a plug just because we respect what she does. Yeah. Yeah. So suffer the little children podcast. I think she might be on a sabbatical right now just because I haven't seen any new episodes, but go listen from the beginning. And she gives updates and everything. I mean, she's amazing. If I could only be half the podcaster that she is. Yeah. Yeah. And her updates are awesome. Yeah. She talks to family members. It's not light. Nope. It's not
01:00:06
Eden & Briana
It sucks ass. Yeah, she'll bring in family members and have them on the podcast as well and ask her questions or ask them. Sucks ass them. But it is hard. When I listen to her podcast, I'm generally driving down the road crying. Oh, I listen. Well, this is kind of weird, but most of the time I listen to her when I take a shower. That way, my tears wash away. Oh, gosh. Good idea. Brilliant. Brilliant. Brilliant. But that's all I have for today.
01:00:37
Eden & Briana
I'm so excited. What are you excited about? Tell me. Your iPad? Yeah. Oh, I'm excited for you. Won't be wasting any more paper. We're saving trees. I want to try writing on yours. You want to try writing on mine? Yeah. Okay. Well, let me get you a blank sheet. Well, we thank you guys for listening. I feel like we're finally kind of getting back into routine. I do too. And it feels good, guys. It does feel good. The summers.
01:01:07
Eden & Briana
are crazy for us because we're huge campers we love going out on the water on the boats horses horses we have very busy summers so i'm thinking in the summer times we'll record two episodes every two weeks that way we can release the one and then the next week we don't have to meet up we can release that way we're like back up you know yeah it would be nice to well this was my in the hole oh yeah yeah i tried to get a case ahead but brianna's waiting for something very special so um a very special present from santa so it was um mom
01:01:52
Eden & Briana
Can we, are you done with your, in the whole case? Yes, I am. Yes, I am. Do you need it? Well, I'm so excited. Like I don't want to research a case until I get mine. You know how much paper? We just saved like a million freaking trees. Yeah, man. Yeah.
01:02:09
Eden & Briana
So what if my mom did two cases? I'm not lazy. No, you're not. You're waiting for the correct tool for the job. I cannot. And like you said, having the right tools for their job will make it so much more fun. It does. Because I have to switch like between five different pens when I'm writing a case because my hands get hurt. Yeah. Like they hurt. Yeah.
01:02:31
Eden & Briana
but I feel like it won't be as bad. I won't have to put pressure. No no pressure. to And then when you get tired of writing, if you need to take a break, you can hit the mic button. Shut up. I didn't know that. Right here. You can talk instead. And then it'll write down what you're saying. So like if your hand gets tired, you just hit this mic button and it'll record and then put it in Microsoft 360. Don't you love your mom?
01:03:00
Eden & Briana
Technology. Yes. Love it. Your mother for bringing you the technology? Come on. Yeah. Give me a little. Hey, I said I was getting a special present from Santa. Give me some love, baby. Give me some love. Are you Santa?
01:03:16
Eden & Briana
No, I'm not Santa. You're Santa. That was a secret Santa. I have no idea what you're talking about. Okay, so guys. We love you. We love you and please refrain from being pond scum. Life is too short and keep your happy houses safe out there. Bye. Take care of your mental health. If you see something, say something. Report it. Do what you gotta do. Don't feel guilty. Bye.
01:03:40
Eden & Briana
bye