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Diana Marshal on Breathing Patterns, Tongue ties, Myofunctional therapy, Proper Development, and so much more!
352 Plays10 months ago
This week, we are joined by Diana Marshal to explore the fascinating realms of tongue function and breathing! We kick off with a discussion on the significance of proper sleep, setting the tone for the episode. The conversation transitions into the intricacies of breathing patterns and tongue posture, which emerge as recurring themes throughout.
The episode delves into myofunctional therapy and its correlation with tongue tie, unraveling the connections between these aspects. We pivot into a dialogue on promoting healthy myofunctional development in infants and children, offering valuable insights for parents. Additionally, we dissect the genesis of breathing pattern problems.
Diana shares her expertise on the art of breathing during exercise, shedding light on efficient techniques. The episode also explores the Wim Hof method and delves into the stress-inducing nature of hyperventilation. Bringing the focus back to the basics, we discuss the physiological advantages of nose breathing. In closing, we leave our listeners with a set of tongue exercises to incorporate into their routine.
We hope you enjoy this episode!
We hope you enjoy this episode!
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Transcript
Introduction and Excitement for Episode
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Beyond Terrain podcast. Today we're going to have a super cool episode. Uh, I'm excited for this. We haven't talked about this topic very much. Um, but we're going to be getting into, um, I think more pragmatic approaches here.
Defining Health with Diana Marshall
00:00:17
Speaker
We're going to be talking a little bit about breath work, hopefully a little bit about, uh, malfunctional therapy exercises, uh, things along that lines there. And, uh, I think it's going to be super insightful episode. Uh, we have,
00:00:31
Speaker
Ms. Diana Marshall on today. Diana, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you so much for having me. Great. Yeah, so I always ask my guests at the start of the podcast, I ask them to define health. I like to know what health means for you and what it looks like. And I think this always gives us a really good baseline to work off of. So what does health mean to you?
00:00:56
Speaker
Well, it's quite interesting question, but I feel waking up refreshed in the morning. It's a good indication of good health. Being energized, ready for the day.
00:01:09
Speaker
I'm not feeling that Oh, I need five more minutes of sleeping and lying in bed, or five alarms and so on. Health is not needing coffee in the middle of the day to wake you up and you know, keep you going. Many people are on the energy drinks and things like that. So I feel if we can person of good health is the one who is energetic,
00:01:35
Speaker
from morning all the way to the evening and doesn't need that extra supplements, extra coffee, extra things like that. So I guess it all relates to sleep, to good sleep and how we are going through our sleep.
Breathing Patterns and Sleep Quality
00:01:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think that's a great indication of health, waking up kind of ready to take on the day, right? Yeah. I like that. I like that. Not needing to rely on
00:02:01
Speaker
on any stimulants or anything either I think is an important indication of health too. I think it's an indication of kind of our world nowadays too because everybody's drinking coffee and drinking energy drinks like you said. We live in this world that doesn't prioritize health, doesn't prioritize our natural cycles and proper sleep. What do you think good sleep entails? What does that look like? How do you maximize the sleep?
00:02:30
Speaker
Yeah. So definitely we need to look at the breathing pattern and if there is any issues with the breathing. So it's funny because I worded, sometimes I just ask person, do you have any breathing issues? Like straight on. And then they say, no, no, no, no breathing issues. And I said, okay, what about asthma? What about allergic rhinitis? Any blocked nose? Any snoring? And they were like, Oh, I didn't know snoring.
00:02:55
Speaker
is the breathing issue. I was like, let's, let's, you know, start. But many people normalize snoring. And it's something, you know, people laugh about snoring. It's like, oh, yeah, it's normal. I was tired. I was, you know, drinking a bit or something like that. And it's normal that I snore. It's like, maybe it's not so normal. And yeah, looking into breathing patterns during the day.
00:03:20
Speaker
will indicate also how you sleep and also the breathing patterns at night will indicate how you go during the day as well. So yeah, I guess number one is looking at the breathing and people forget about the fundamental part of our life breathing.
Breathing and Digestion Connection
00:03:34
Speaker
Like we can, you know, have a healthy diet, eat really clean, but body will always prioritize breathing. So many people with breathing dysfunctions, they have digestion issues and they wouldn't relate one with another.
00:03:48
Speaker
But the body will make sure that you breathe well, or you are staying alive, rather than digest your food and your lunch. So it's just pushed, pushed away. So people, you know, people say, Okay, I eat really well, I do all of these things, but nothing happens. My health is still declining. And this is, yeah, probably looking at the breathing is number one thing to, to look at. And
00:04:18
Speaker
and actually pay attention to it because people, you know, there is so new diets all the time and new things all the time, new biohacking. But what about breathing, you know? Yeah, absolutely. So cool. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so when you talk about breathing patterns, you know, what, what is something that you look for? Are you supposed to be taking long, deep breaths or how does that look like, uh, for you, I guess?
00:04:44
Speaker
Yeah. So for me, it's just gentle, nice breathing. So when we're talking about resting and sitting down, not doing any physical activity, not doing any big talking, the breathing should be nice and slow. So we're looking at the five and a half breaths per minute, which is super low. And very often people on daily basis, they breathe maybe 23 breaths a minute.
00:05:08
Speaker
When they stressed and they constantly in that fight and flight mode, they actually breathing way faster. The textbooks say that 10 to 12 breaths are good per minute. However, there are more studies showing that the five and a half to six breaths per minute
00:05:27
Speaker
is the ideal if we at rest. So very slow, very gentle, and then nasal, of course, so breathing in and out through the nose only.
Tongue Posture and Myofunctional Therapy
00:05:37
Speaker
So many people struggle with that because all the nasal congestions and all the, you know, issues with the sinuses and all that, some people blame septum being, you know, deviated, and they can breathe through the nose, which isn't true in some cases. But many people do have deviated septum, and they still can breathe through the nose.
00:05:57
Speaker
So it's more about working on very slow and gentle breathing, nose breathing and also the tongue posture. So the tongue posture relates to the myofunctional therapy as well. So working on a tongue,
00:06:12
Speaker
how the tongue is, if it's strong or not, and then where it should live. So ideally, if we can lift the tongue up to the roof of the mouth, that's the optimal position of the tongue. So the tongue pretty much should live on the palate. And many people don't really know how to do it. And that's when they need the fine myofunctional therapy help and some guidance in getting the tongue strong enough
00:06:41
Speaker
to be able to be at the palate. Yeah, nose breathing is definitely a big one. With the deviated septum. Yeah, yeah, a lot of people, they mentioned that and I've seen people, they'll put like balloons up their nose to open up their, right, their nasal passage. And I've seen that a lot. But yeah, I guess,
00:07:10
Speaker
with the, with the tongue posture, you know, you're talking about extra strengthening the tongue to make sure that it's resting on the top of the mouth. So how do you even go about that? Right? Like I've kind of always, well, I guess I suppose what I've been focusing on is like mewing is a big topic, obviously. Um, and I feel like I'm kind of just been so aware during the day. Um, I noticed in the mornings when I wake up, my tongue is glued to the top of my mouth.
00:07:40
Speaker
which is, and I always feel very well rested when I wake up and my tongue is like, I feel it, it hasn't moved all night. But I feel like I kind of just developed it over time. Maybe I was strengthening when I was doing the mewing and really pushing, just pushing up, but I don't really know what the, what a proper exercise would look like. So maybe you can elaborate a little bit on that.
00:08:03
Speaker
So very often, there's several assessments we do during the myofunctional therapy to see how the tongue works. So just poking the tongue in and out, it's not indication of the tongue tie, if there is a tongue tie, for example, which is the little bit underneath the tongue. And very often we're looking at the functionality of the tongue. If the tongue actually can move sideways, if there's compensation patterns, so very often people will move the tongue in and out.
00:08:32
Speaker
but the jaw will follow as well or the whole head will move this way and that way. So we're looking at the compensation patterns and if the tongue actually can move on its own because it's such an important
00:08:46
Speaker
part of our body with the swallowing pattern, with the breathing, all that relates to the tongue.
Impact of Oral Habits on Development
00:08:53
Speaker
Also, it supports our head as well. So if the tongue is up nicely suctioned, we actually feel a bit straighter in our neck. We're not as bad with the head for posture.
00:09:06
Speaker
Um, so there is many, well, many exercises, um, for my functional therapy, but one, which is interesting, I found recently, many people, when I asked them to click the tongue, like, they actually cannot do it. They do it very gently. Um, they can actually get that noise out, uh, and they very, you know, softly click the tongue or they can click the tongue at all. Um, so that's very interesting because you would think.
00:09:36
Speaker
That's one of the main thing we used to click. That sound was coming out when you were a child. You're always doing some clicking sounds and playing with your mouth. But once you're older, you're not so... I guess the tongue doesn't get as strong anymore, kind of get lazy when it's sitting down low at the bottom of the mouth. Yeah, so there's lots of indications.
00:10:03
Speaker
I mentioned the tongue ties. It's an interesting one because now everyone is researching the tongue ties and everyone is, wow, I've got a tongue tie. I need to snip it or laser it.
00:10:16
Speaker
it's not necessary about the bend itself, that little attachment, it's about the functionality. So very often you might see the bend and it might look restricted, but then if the tongue is actually moving and you're able to section the tongue nicely to the roof and perform the swallowing pattern very well and all that, you don't need to actually address it. And people isolate that little bend as it's going to fix all the issues they have.
00:10:45
Speaker
So yeah, so it's kind of interesting, but saying that very often the tongue tie is restricting the mouth, restricting the body, and it's contributing to neck and shoulder pain, for example. So I'm a prime example of that. I had my tongue tied down a couple of years ago or
Understanding Tongue Ties
00:11:05
Speaker
maybe three years ago. So in my 30s, I was thinking about it for two years because my tongue tie wasn't too bad. It was maybe at 50%.
00:11:14
Speaker
However, the band was quite thick, so the frenum was thick. So I went with the surgeon and I did remove quite a bit of chunk of that frenum. And I did feel release straight away. 10 minutes after the procedure, I did feel release in my neck. And I knew it also, before I did the release, I also knew it's contributing to my headaches because whenever I was doing tongue
00:11:44
Speaker
you know, moving the tongue out, I could feel the headache was diminishing. So I knew the tongue tie is contributing to my headaches. So yeah, so it's quite interesting. So people rush with the tongue tie release as well. So that's another big challenge as a my functional therapist because people are not ready for the release. Like the tongue doesn't know what to do yet.
00:12:14
Speaker
And very often people come back after the release and they're like, what do I do? My tongue is funny. I feel it's too big in my mouth. And I was like, you know, the myofunctional therapy should start before the tongue tie release and then we can take it from there. So yes, I feel people just rush too much because they read something on the internet rather than actually see the therapist, get their assessment, prepare the tongue and then if needed,
00:12:43
Speaker
Um, get, get it released. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And it's very individual, right? Very individual every time. I'm sure. Um, I brought, I have scissors here just in case we were going to do that on camera. Yes. It's not, it's not for everybody, right? It's that's what we keep coming back to. At least interventions always seem to be super individual. And I think that's really important to understand that there's not like a one
00:13:13
Speaker
There's not one thing that's going to fix everybody. On Instagram, everyone always seems to ask for interventions. What can we do? What can we do? What can we do? And it's like, I really believe that working with somebody that's very skilled is very, very important because there needs to be an assessment, right? It's not like everyone's just going to cut their tongue tie. And then, like you said, more problems can arise if you're not addressing the malfunctional therapy. Yeah. So like, let's play. I just want to ask.
00:13:42
Speaker
Oh, mention, let's say if the palate is too small, and the tongue doesn't have a space to fit that it's going to curl, going to curl a bit, and that will restrict the airways. So if they sleep, especially at the back, the base of the tongue will fall back further to the airway, and that will cause that obstruction. So it's really, or if the tongue doesn't know where to sit, it will sit quite low or will sit quite back. And that will, again, impact the breathing
00:14:10
Speaker
at night and people saying they're choking when they have a tongue tie released and the tongue doesn't know where to go. So the assessment is definitely something people should start with before they're going into releasing. The body is very intelligent too. There's a tongue tie for a reason. So maybe it did develop over that time.
00:14:38
Speaker
to actually keep your tongue from collapsing into the back of your throat, right? There's likely a reason. There's an adaptation. I really think that you see these things like even with a mouth when you're mouth breathing,
Benefits of Nasal Breathing
00:14:52
Speaker
right? Your whole airway changes, right? To accommodate to the stressful breathing pattern. And people become mouth breathing maybe because they are more in a stressed out state.
00:15:04
Speaker
We could probably talk about that a little bit, but the body does adapt. We do adapt to our environments. We adapt to ourselves too, right? So I think that's important to note.
00:15:16
Speaker
So the tongue, yeah, the tongue is when we, we actually born with the tongue tie. So we either born or not. So it doesn't develop over time. But very often, everyone has the band underneath. Some it's more restricted, some not. But very often I find that the muscles around the, the frenum are actually tight. And that's what's causing
00:15:40
Speaker
the tongue not being able to lift. So I do lots of intraoral massages. I put my fingers in someone's mouth and actually release these muscles inside the mouth and they feel like the tongue can actually move better. So yeah. Yeah. So very often it's the muscles are the muscles as well being to contribute to that tongue mobility issues. Wow. Yeah. So I guess
00:16:10
Speaker
During the development stages, maybe we could touch on that a little bit about ideally developing. How do we develop ideally? What are these habits that we're not doing anymore? Because I feel like this hasn't been a problem forever. I feel like if we studied native populations, obviously we don't have the data. But if we did, I'm sure that they didn't have weak tongues. If you look at Western A prices work,
00:16:37
Speaker
You know, he observed the natives who were eating or living the native way of life and they didn't have any facial development, which I think would be, or like poor facial development when they were consuming the native diet. I think that's an indication that they probably didn't have muscular issues in their mouth and their tongue. So, you know, what does that look like? What does the proper development look like? Like good habits to foster in kids or things like that.
00:17:03
Speaker
So I guess we can start from breastfeeding pretty much. So when the child is born, usually the mother attempts to breastfeed. And that's when the issue could start from right there. Just because the blotching, for example, challenge, the moms are, you know, it's hard to say, but
00:17:26
Speaker
very often there's not enough education around breastfeeding, around childbirth. And women are not, they don't have as much access to the education of breastfeeding. They think, okay, this is natural, we can work around it. But it's actually you need to educate yourself about all these issues which might contribute or things which might look differently. Many people are telling,
00:17:54
Speaker
you telling the mother, for example, you don't have enough milk or you have too small breasts or too large one and so on. And then the women, they get confused and they're like, maybe I do not have enough milk. But majority of women, they are able to breastfeed. It's that that they don't get enough support. And that's when they develop
00:18:18
Speaker
Yeah, when the development of the jaw starts, when we can actually breastfeed and the tongue gets really good workout. So with the bottle feeding, the tongue stays in one position. When with the breastfeeding, the tongue is actually moving during the latch, during the removal of the milk. And that's when you start your workout, your tongue workout, and also developing the muscles around the face because you need a good seal, you need a nasal breathing as well. So the babies are
00:18:46
Speaker
you know, they breathe through the nose, they latch really well and they just keep going and the tongue is doing really good. Of course there's some babies which have quite weak muscles but you will know that from the very beginning that something is not 100%. And then we go into puree and feeding kids, you know, very mashed, you know, puree food and then giving them actually
00:19:13
Speaker
piece of carrot if appropriate or some slightly harder food and so they can actually work the muscles but I guess
00:19:26
Speaker
Maybe because mothers are scared that they're not feeding enough the kids and the kid didn't eat the whole bowl of carrots, or they just chew on the meat rather than actually eat the whole piece. Maybe they're just scared, oh, I need to make sure I feed my kid. That's why they keep giving them puree as well.
00:19:46
Speaker
rather than just letting them, you know, have the breast milk if they can and then giving them chewing on the food or experimenting with the harder food and then letting that jaw be a bit more, having a bit more workout rather than
00:20:05
Speaker
just letting it go straight to the stomach. Yeah, so I guess the feeding is the number one, you know, the very start. There is also pacifier use, quite common. So everyone is putting dummy on and just to
00:20:23
Speaker
have a five minutes of quiet. But it's actually shaping also the palette and the mouth and how the mouth is. So if the pacifier is quite big, then it will dig into the palette. And palette at that age, very small age, it's quite, you can mold it quite well. That's why we never really put fingers in the mouth unless we
00:20:49
Speaker
trained really well like Kyra will do some work on the palette for example. But the pacifier will shape the palette and that's what causes that palette to be a bit narrow just with the bottle feeding and a pacifier use. But yeah it's a big topic because people get very offended when
00:21:12
Speaker
when you mentioned that, you know, the bottle fitting, maybe it's not ideal, and the breast is best. So yeah, I guess people are very delicate about this subject. They don't want to offend anyone. But yeah, but I guess it needs to be said, there is not enough education, there's not enough support, because if the mums are supported,
00:21:35
Speaker
And they know, okay, my breast might be looking, you know, flat at a certain point of, you know, after a couple of months when the milk is establishing, it does not mean that I don't have enough milk. It just means that we're just, you know, working through one stage. Sometimes the babies keep latching every hour.
00:21:56
Speaker
thinks, oh, I don't have enough milk, which is not true, it's another stage.
Breathing Patterns and Stress
00:22:00
Speaker
And if the mom has a support and education that will keep her strong and keep her going, that, okay, this is a normal stage and then we can move on. Yeah, I think that's a beautiful note. It's not about shaming people, right? It's about education. And I think support, that's huge. That's amazing. I think
00:22:23
Speaker
it's certainly something that I don't think is talked about enough. So I appreciate you bringing that up. And there certainly seems to be, there's reason behind it, right? It is how it was intended. It's how, you know, it's what's seen in nature and everything. So anyways, I think that's really important to highlight. So I guess getting through and after these stages, right, after the real early stages, is it just
00:22:49
Speaker
Chewing hard foods, does that have something to do with it? Chewing tough pieces of meat or something? Is that something that's good to develop it over time? Does that kind of keep it working? Is it proper posture when swallowing and chewing, right? Does that have something to do with it too? Yeah, so with the kids, I guess, there is lots of different reasons for oral habits, like thumb sucking or finger sucking, or even chewing on the hair or chewing on the lip.
00:23:19
Speaker
And that's also impacts the muscles around the face and how even the teeth are developing because if they suck in the thumb, they're creating open bite and the teeth are not matching here in the middle. And obviously that causes them to
00:23:37
Speaker
develop other issues around the neck and facial muscles and so on. And so there are many contributor factors. But I guess, yeah, keeping the child, you know, engaged with chewing food and doesn't need to be a piece of steak, that's great. But if they're not happy with the steak, they can have a carrot or cucumber. It's still enough to get that workout. But also interesting fact is that
00:24:04
Speaker
when there is a nasal congestion, when there is airway issue, that kids would prefer soft diet. So there will be, you might call them like the picky eaters, and then they will just eat white bread, they will just eat pasta because it's soft, it's easy to swallow, and you don't just spend time on chewing like with the meat or with the carrot. So many kids with the congestion, they will
00:24:33
Speaker
prefer that food and they either fast eaters or they slow eaters because pretty much they need to breathe. So they will eat slow so they can take that breath in through the mouth or they will eat very fast so they can breathe again through the mouth very often. So yeah, that's interesting. So things like that to pick it up early, it's quite good if the parent can pick up on those little signs.
00:25:03
Speaker
quite fast because then they can get them to ENT, see if there is any structural issues, see with the camera what's happening in the nose, in the throat, and take it from there and then either go through the myofunctional therapy, retrain the breathing, or maybe involve functional dentists which can work on balancing the jaw, expanding possibly the palate and so on, depending obviously on the issues. But early we start
00:25:32
Speaker
better it is, and then just correcting these little habits. But with the myofunctional therapy, it's not just the mouth and the tongue, not just the breathing, but also the posture. The chewing, you mentioned the chewing and the swallowing, if the swallow pattern is
00:25:47
Speaker
problematic, then it's going to push on the teeth. And we swallow not only food, we swallow saliva so often. And if the tongue is pushing on the teeth, obviously that's going to push the teeth and create that uncrooked look of the teeth. And so you're working on a swallowing pattern. Some people, even adults, they will have troubles with swallowing pills.
00:26:13
Speaker
And that's a good indication that there is some swallowing issue and then they should be assessed and corrected with that nice swallow pattern. Yeah. So like with the swallowing pattern, for example, one good indication, if you swallow right now and if you engage this muscle here, like this,
00:26:34
Speaker
I don't know if you can see me. You engage the muscle around the mouth. And that shouldn't be engaged, really. We should just see the swallow just right here on your neck, rather than overusing the muscle around the lips. So that's one of the indications that there is some swallowing issue. And we're just engaging wrong muscles at the wrong time. Interesting.
00:27:04
Speaker
So the breathing patterns, do you tie it to the nervous system at all, to a stressed out state, or is it a lot to do with air quality? You mentioned congestion a few times. Where do you see the real problems occur with the breathing patterns? I guess it also starts at the early age. It can start then. Very often,
00:27:27
Speaker
We can blame school if we want to, because we wear backpacks, very heavy backpacks from a very early age. That changes the posture. We have a different posture that's cramping up the diaphragm. We start breathing through the chest. And when we're breathing through the chest, we start breathing also through the mouth. So that's one of the contributor factors. Also, overeating, it's increasing the respiratory rate.
00:27:54
Speaker
and it's especially before the bed. And now in the world that fast food and everything is quite easy to get, we're breathing faster just because we ate too much and maybe not very good food and all that stuff. What else? High temperatures. So for example,
00:28:17
Speaker
at home in winter, people just blast the heaters and so on. And especially at night, that impacts the breathing as well, because that's also increasing the respiratory rate. So if you're breathing faster, you're in that straight stress mode as well. But also, dysfunction breathing is when we're just changing the pattern, like mechanically, like from the diaphragm, like not using the diaphragm as efficient and diaphragm is the main breathing muscle.
00:28:47
Speaker
So overusing supporting breathing muscles too much. So we've got a little supporting breathing muscles around the neck. And for example, smokers or asthmatics, they will overuse that muscles more rather than, you know, keep it just as a supporting breathing muscle. What else contributes to
00:29:08
Speaker
So there's many, I guess, living in a stress state, it is part of it. But I don't know if that's the, that's how it starts, like the stress causing the breathing issue or the breathing issue causing the stress as well, because it's a little circle, little cycle.
00:29:28
Speaker
When we're breathing, when the pattern is dysfunctional, we get in a stress mode. We might not even feel we're stressed, but internally we are in a stress mode. And the body, like I said before, the body would prioritize the breathing because you feel, okay, I need to keep breathing because there's a danger and the digestion will be, you know, far away. So it will quickly digest whatever it needs to be, but it's not going to priority. That's why we're developing all these gut issues and so on.
00:29:59
Speaker
So for with the cycle, it could be stress causing it and then the stress causing that fast breathing and that shallow breathing. So it's a little, I don't know what's first, stress or the breathing, but it's definitely related. And faster breaths, more through the mouth and upper chest, more we are stressed. So it's, it's kind of keep going. And unless we stop that pattern and
00:30:27
Speaker
retrain ourselves, then we can feel better or feel less stressed. So when you address it, can you address it solely through breathing? Can you just kind of retrain the breathing? I'm sure you got to get
00:30:45
Speaker
a little bit to the root. Like if you have really bad air quality, that's probably something you want to address. Or obviously if you have structural issues, it's worth working with a holistic dentist, a malfunctional dentist, osteopath, things like this. But say, you know, you have generally, I suppose you're probably looking at the breath as well.
00:31:07
Speaker
during all of this, right? You want to retrain the breath as well, even if you do, or if you are fixing the structural problems and all this. So is that is that an approach you take? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So very often I get
00:31:20
Speaker
I always check if the adult is able to breathe for a minute or so through the nose exclusively. So our lips sealed and just through the nose, then there's a good indication it can do it for life. So even with deviated septum or even with some polyps or even with some like a nasal polyps or enlarged adenoids, if they can do it for a minute, they can do it for life and we can keep going and we don't, we just do the breathing retraining that,
00:31:50
Speaker
you know, without intervention of ENT or someone else if the person doesn't need to see ENT. With the kids, it's three minutes, so we want to make sure that you breathe three minutes or so just through the nose. And then if there's no issues, then, and if the parents doesn't want to see the ENT, then we can start retraining the child as well.
00:32:12
Speaker
because it's a general indication, but if you're able to breathe for a minute or three minutes or so, you can do it for life and we can definitely start the breathing retraining. Many people, they would have deviated septum to the point that it's actually closed, the nostril is closed and we need to send them to ENT, they might need to have some little surgery or things like that. Or there is other structural issues which are
00:32:40
Speaker
problematic then yeah we're involving other practitioners because yeah you can't really work with the structure just with the breathing retraining but yeah very often people would say I can't breathe breathe at all through the nose but once you start them they actually opening up the nose so nose it's actually um if you don't use it you lose it so you lose some of the function of the nose and and if you
Nasal Breathing During Exercise
00:33:08
Speaker
If you start actually using it and slowly retrain yourself, you actually feel the nose is more open. Even with the nasal congestion, there's one study which shows 200% more congestion when the people breathe out through the mouth. So pretty much if you breathe in through the nose but out through the mouth, you're congesting the nose.
00:33:28
Speaker
But if you breathe in and out through the nose, you're opening up the nose quite nicely. So you're stimulating that lining of the nose. And also you don't use as much energy. So people waste time, waste energy on breathing. So what I mean by that is when you take breath in, the body warms and makes the air warmer. So it's nicely absorbed by lungs and
00:33:56
Speaker
you know, to breathe out. If you breathe out through the mouth, the next breath through the nose will have to again get that, you know, energy going for warming up the air again, making it nice and clear and so on and so on. So all the time you're using extra energy. But if you breathe in and out through the nose, the nose is stimulated again, the lining of the nose is stimulated by the exhale through the nose.
00:34:21
Speaker
that way for the upcoming breath in against the nose it doesn't use as much energy because everything is nice prepared warm and all that. So pretty much especially with the
00:34:34
Speaker
with people who train or do some running and so on, like they will waste so much energy on mouth breathing. And instead of just getting that oxygen to the cells, to the muscles and be faster, uh, if they would breathe through the nose, but yeah, it's, it is a challenge to breathe through nose when you exercise. Yeah. I actually wanted to bring that up. Um, like, is there a time and a place for mouth breathing? Like during exercise, you're saying, you know,
00:35:03
Speaker
If you can, it's more efficient to breathe through the nose, right? So if we do like to moderate exercises, it should be nose only. So breath in and out through the nose only. And the tongue, of course, sitting in the palate lightly suctioned. If we're doing more intense exercise, so we're running a marathon and so on,
00:35:25
Speaker
50-50 is fine. So obviously with intense exercise, we will open the mouth and it's fine. But it's more about the warm up and warm down, people do, which often involves mouth breathing. And that's when you're wasting that energy unnecessarily.
00:35:42
Speaker
Yeah, so I find, for example, when people train, they will drop the, let's say if they run or something like that, they will drop the speed or drop the distance with the first two weeks of the training.
00:35:57
Speaker
because they start nasal breathing. And they're like, what's wrong? You know, I've been able to run so far, or so fast, certain distance and what's happening. But it's actually your body adjusting to nasal breathing again. And once you pass that week or two, you're actually faster than you were before you were starting with mouth breathing. So it is actually improving your, your stamina and improving your performance. Yeah, and the larger
00:36:26
Speaker
may not see it in the short term, but yeah, that's awesome. Absolutely. And so I guess a good transition, right? Because I want to start really looking into all this, you know, I'd be outside working out and even during intense exercise, I try to breathe through my nose and, um, but even transitioning into it, you're saying warm up and warm down might be good to focus on initially and then maybe implement it periodically. And when you remember what's kind of the way to implement it into that, do you think?
00:36:55
Speaker
I guess, well, you can take the mouth if you're really comfortable with the taping. Um, but you can definitely start with the warm up and warm down, um, and just see how you go. See and catch yourself when you're actually opening the mouth. Is it, um, when you're running certain distance or doing what exercises actually gets you, you know, open the mouth so, um, so much, and then maybe, um,
00:37:21
Speaker
just catching yourself on these little moments and just slowly, slowly, you know, because it's we develop this habit to breathe through the mouth when we exercise, but then it can be adjusted. We can work on it as well and catch ourselves on that. So having that awareness, I guess it's the number one, it's probably you already halfway through the progress, having just the awareness of the nasal breathing and the tongue posture.
00:37:48
Speaker
and the diaphragmatic breathing as well, because that stabilizes it as well, so it prevents injuries as well. So yeah, we've, yeah, we like, we oxygenate more when we're breathing through the nose. So, you know, if people get lots of cramps and things like that during physical, after physical exercises, that's a good,
00:38:13
Speaker
Like we probably don't, if we breathe through the mouth, we don't get that oxygen straight to the cells and where it should be to get us recover faster. So definitely nasal breathing is something to worth implementing during physical activity. Yeah. So I know a big thing in the breath work community, like there is this, you know, and not to necessarily diminish
00:38:43
Speaker
Wim Hof, because I love Wim Hof, but his breathing is through the mouth. And I've heard Christians that it's a very stressful breath work. Now, obviously, he's doing very stressful activities like going into cold water. But I did hear that, you know, implementing a softer breath work is kind of
00:39:09
Speaker
a good balance at least that we should be thinking about since we do live in, we live in very stressful environments, right? Everything's kind of designed to be stressful with the work nine to five and whatever it may be. Have you ever heard anything like that with the soft versus stressful breath work?
Comparing Breathwork Techniques
00:39:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:30
Speaker
So I'm not a very good fan of like hyperventilation type of activities such as Wim Hof. Just because from the physiological point, we're constructing the blood vessels. And that's obviously not going to do any good because if we're constructing blood vessels, we're not getting enough blood supply, oxygen supply to our brain and other organs. So that's very significant. Some people say that
00:39:58
Speaker
some controlled stress is a good stress because you're preparing your body for for bigger stress and so on and we do a little you know breath hold exercises when there is controlled stress but we
00:40:14
Speaker
What I like to do, I like to not focus on the hyperventilation at all because I don't want to constrict the blood vessels. They probably already constricted from fast breathing on daily basis. So the exercises I teach the functional breathing exercises, they actually opening up the blood vessels. So we're using the biochemistry of
00:40:34
Speaker
of our body so we're using the nasal nitric nitric oxide which opens up helps to open up the blood vessels helps to open up the airway we're using the gas exchange the carbon dioxide levels we're living leveling it up quite well so we actually can adapt better to
00:40:52
Speaker
to nice and gentle breathing and breath holds rather than just hyperventilate for 30 seconds. I actually had a client who went to some breath work event and they hyperventilate for 30 minutes. And I was like, what did you do? And he's like, don't worry, I came back so you can fix me. But it's pretty much, it's so dangerous.
00:41:17
Speaker
Because just 30 seconds to one minute of hyperventilation of deep breathing will constrict the blood vessels, will cut the blood supply to the brain by nearly half. So that's just one minute. And imagine what 30 minutes will do to you.
00:41:37
Speaker
And it's interesting because people, there's so many breathworks out there and they, you know, different modalities and different reasons for that type of breathwork. For example, some of them, they emotional release type of breathwork. So they talk about trauma and about all these emotional, spiritual releases. And that's where the client went to for something like this. And
00:42:01
Speaker
And I guess if you add a meaning to breath work, let's say I'm releasing my trauma of this and that, and then you start hyperventilating and you're cutting the oxygen supply by half, you will feel high. You will feel something moved in my body, something moved in my brain.
00:42:19
Speaker
maybe I release that trauma, you're adding that, you know, topic of trauma, okay, yeah, I'm releasing the trauma, I'm releasing the trauma. And this physiological situation, the chemical changes happening in your body, of course, you're going to feel a release. That's why people are so addicted as well to it. And they're going from one breathwork to another, but they don't look at the physiology and that they simply
00:42:41
Speaker
reduce the supply of the oxygen to the brain by nearly half. That's why they felt high and that something happened. So that's my take on it and maybe some people wouldn't like it because they like to add spiritual meaning to it.
00:42:57
Speaker
Yeah, we have to be quite, you know, logical what's happening in the body. And if we constricting the blood vessels, that's not going to do any good. I don't believe that it's necessary. And I know many
00:43:13
Speaker
So I teach oxygen advantage method, which is about it's similar to boutique or it's more advanced. It's for more sports people. So we all about making the blood vessels bigger, making the airways nice and open and so on.
00:43:29
Speaker
But I know some of the trainers, they train also in Wim Hof, and they implement Wim Hof at some events. But they do Wim Hof through nasal breathing. So they do implement the nasal breathing through the Wim Hof technique. I haven't tried it, but yeah, it's something which hopefully starts to develop more like, yeah, if you want to do Wim Hof and cold exposure and all these fun things, fine. But maybe just do it more nasally so we can actually get that
00:43:59
Speaker
the carbon dioxide levels be nice and even, yeah. And maybe that's some progress into Wim Hof technique, possibly. Cool. I think that's great insight. Yeah, because I used to do, well, I like Wim Hof. I like the guy. I do. I do. You know, he places an emphasis on breath work, which I think is interesting. And I think that's helpful. And at least it gets people in the game.
00:44:26
Speaker
Um, I, I did do a lot of this breathing in the past and I have shied away from it now. Uh, but you know, in the past, it does give you this feeling like this euphoria, you know, maybe it is just because you got nothing going on up there in your brain. You know, you kind of feel a little lightheaded and it's something that he even talks about. He says that he says that you might want to begin doing it nasally because if you just jump right into doing these really stressful hyperventilations that
00:44:54
Speaker
You know, I think he's actually aware of what he's doing, which is kind of interesting, right? I guess he might have a little different philosophy, but I like what you're saying here. Um, it makes a lot of sense. And I guess I'll add in my studies of kind of psychology and trauma, you know, I guess I don't look at it necessarily as trauma release. Um, but you know, when I go back and I would think that we're, we're dealing with a trauma, I kind of look at it from the perspective that
00:45:24
Speaker
If you're going to deal with this trauma, which was a stressful event, you might want to like, if you bring it to light, have a slower breathing pattern and a more, a less stressful association with that trauma. That's what comes to mind with me. Like it's like, you want to really feel safe and comfortable with your past is one of the ways that I kind of look at trauma healing. And so rather than thinking of a traumatic memory and then stressing your body out,
00:45:53
Speaker
You're still, you still kind of have a negative association. I don't really understand. I suppose I don't understand the philosophy of how that might release it. Perhaps, perhaps it does. Maybe I just haven't considered that, but you know, I kind of liken it to going back and looking at those traumatic memories and feeling safe in it and maybe slowing down the breathing and doing more controlled, softer breath work throughout it. So you feel that inner safety with those traumatic memories.
00:46:23
Speaker
that's just kind of how I look at it, I guess. I mean, maybe there is some, maybe there is a time and a place for the other. I just, that's just what, what came to mind for me. And I just wanted to share that. So yeah, I think that's super interesting. Nasal, nasal breathing. So what kind of comes with nasal breathing? You mentioned nitrous oxide and balancing of CO2 levels. You know, it's, it's really physiological. Just the difference between nose breathing and mouth breathing. It's kind of,
00:46:51
Speaker
It's mind blowing really why that changed it so much. Maybe you can talk a little bit about that.
00:46:57
Speaker
Yeah, so for example, we don't get naso natural oxide in our mouth if we breathe through our mouth. And it's a short leaf gas which opens up the blood vessels and the airways. It helps with that process. And if the air comes just through the mouth, we get all that unfiltered air, cold air, straight to the lungs. Lungs wants to push it out very quickly, so we're breathing out faster.
00:47:23
Speaker
um with the nose breathing the way how the nose is built so the nasal cavity i don't know if you can see that so the nasal cavity is quite large and it's built so the air can spread around so slow it down and it go
00:47:39
Speaker
go to the lungs nice and slowly. And the same on the exhale, it spreads around by the time you get it out. So it's slowing down the breathing. So some people say, oh, I can breathe out slowly through the mouth. It's like, no, no, no, you actually can't, because the nose is designed to slow down the breathing. But also, I mentioned the nasonatric oxide. It's only released from the paranasal sinuses to the nasal cavity. We can't get that in our mouth.
00:48:08
Speaker
And that's huge because that helps, especially with the sleep apnea. People don't realize we use that with the help of nitric oxide and probably other unknown reasons, like we don't know everything yet, but something happens that the airways get more rigid with the nasal breathing. So it means that they are staying open
00:48:34
Speaker
much more efficient during the sleep rather with mouth breathing. With mouth breathing we can actually, they prone to collapsing if there is some sleep apnea difficulties.
00:48:46
Speaker
The nose is also making the air warmer, making it nice and, you know, germs free and so on. So we actually get less, you know, cold and flu and so on. And it's interesting because I come from Poland, so we get all the seasons of the year. And I thought it was normal for me before I knew anything about the breathwork. I knew I thought it's normal to get sick every winter because it's winter. Everything changes, the weather changes and, you know, you get the cold and flu a few times.
00:49:15
Speaker
But once I started actually doing the breathwork and working on my nasal breathing, that's what completely was gone for a very long time. That was the first significant thing I noticed in my body, what changed that I never got really sick. Or even if I got sick, it was just a few days and wasn't like, you know, flu going on for a week or two. It was just a little, you know, cold, but it wasn't
00:49:41
Speaker
you know, needing medication, needing some other things, supplements. So that's crazy because that's all just because my nose was working efficiently rather than just having all the germs stuck in my throat pretty much. And you know, and what's in your mouth, it's in your lungs as well. And what's in your lungs, it's in your mouth. So many people with like gum disease and other mouth issues or dental type of
00:50:11
Speaker
you would say, providential issues with some inflammation of the gums. All the same germs will travel down to the lungs as well. So it is quite impactful. We actually get more cavities with the mouth breathing because the mouth gets dry. So the saliva doesn't work very efficiently and doesn't clean your teeth. And if the tongue also doesn't
00:50:37
Speaker
work really well. We can actually clean the teeth with our tongue, which we should do every meal after every meal. The tongue actually should be able to swish around and be able to clean our teeth as well. And yeah, so many people can touch
00:50:54
Speaker
the back of the teeth with the tongue on both sides with that compensation of that. But it's a great exercise. You can hold your chin just to stabilize your jaw and go around and clean your teeth with your tongue and that's a great workout.
00:51:16
Speaker
especially after meal. But yeah, with the nasal breathing, we get all these benefits and we don't get that with the mouth and also with the mouth breathing, we always will keep the tongue low. It means it's never going to be on a palate because you're unable to breathe through the mouth with the tongue being up. So, you know, if you press the tongue up,
00:51:40
Speaker
it's impossible to breathe through the mouth. So that's why it's so important to have the tongue up and it's a huge part of the breathing training to keep the tongue and the palate.
00:51:52
Speaker
And with the tongue on a palette, like not many people understand, that pretty much the whole tongue should sit on a palette. And just behind your front teeth, there is a little bump. You can feel it with your tongue. And that's where the tip of the tongue should rest. So just a few millimeters, one to two millimeters behind your front teeth. That's where the tip of the tongue should rest. The rest, three quarters to the full tongue, should be lightly sectioned to the palette.
00:52:21
Speaker
And that's creating that nice stability of your neck as well. But it's also stimulating the vagus nerve. I know you mentioned that the vagus nerve and the stress
00:52:31
Speaker
fight or flight we actually there is lots of nerve endings especially at the back of the palate so that's why kids um one of the reason why kids um sucking their thumbs because they want to stimulate that palate to calm themselves down but we can do that we are designed to do it naturally with our tongue if the tongue is nicely rested you're more likely to be able to calm that you know stimulate that vagus nerve and um and get that you know
00:52:59
Speaker
more um be not as stressed as you would if your tongue sitting nice and low yeah there's um there's a lot to do with that tongue yeah
00:53:11
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. And it's also connected all the way to our feet. So with the fascia, so if someone has a tongue tie and so on, the tongue is pretty much connected all the way down to our toes. That's why it's affecting not only the jaw, but it's also our hips, our knees, our ankles. So very often I see if there's a tongue tie, especially with kids, it's easily picked up that the feet are going
00:53:40
Speaker
they're not very straight, they're going funny ways. And then I'm like, okay, I look in your mouth and the tongue is doing also funny things. It's deviating or it's restricted and so on. So it's all that, you know, fascia, which is that little net, let's say, which goes around your muscles and between your muscles and so on, which holds everything
Body Alignment and Tongue Posture
00:54:03
Speaker
up. And if one part of the fascia is restricted, like with the tongue play, let's say, it can affect the other parts of the
00:54:10
Speaker
off the body as well. Great connection. Yeah. Fascist. That's not something I ever thought about with the tongue for some reason. That's so cool. Yeah. But it's very often. Sorry.
00:54:25
Speaker
Go ahead. No, no. Very often people like look just at the tongue. And I mentioned that before, but we can't just exclude the tongue or tongue tie. It's not going to fix our whole issues. We actually need to work on the neck. We need to work on the body and other imbalances. So yeah, it's very often the body work. It's also the key element of the therapy to be able to release everything else because everything is getting a bit tighter than it should.
00:54:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was just going to say, I was going to say, I'm sure the body being out of alignment could certainly affect the tongue posture and even maybe a lack of movement, you know, it could be problematic, right? Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I did train for that reason. I trained in remedial massage as well, because I've been sending my clients to other therapists, but they didn't get what I needed for them to get the treatment.
00:55:24
Speaker
So I train as a remedial massage therapist, so I'm able to, you know, do the internal work inside the mouth, work on the neck because very often that's related. So especially before release and after release, we're working on that, you know, neck and shoulders and whatever else needs to be released. But the whole picture, so people
00:55:43
Speaker
Like I said before, people rushing to tongue ties without preparation, but your body's so tense already. We need to calm it down before the stressful procedure. Work the tongue out, like have a good workout with the tongue. Establish the nasal breathing and get other checks done like ENT if needed. And then, you know, build up to the tongue tie release when it's needed.
00:56:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Because if you do, if you do the rest of it, you were mentioned in that you might not need to actually address the tongue tie, right? You know, it's a morbid tongue mobility, right? If you have good tongue mobility and good tongue strength, then you don't necessarily need to go undergo that procedure. So I think that's very, very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. The tongue tie is something it's, it's all over the place now on social media. Like everyone, I feel like everyone's pretty quick to, to jump into,
00:56:41
Speaker
a magic bullet, just like cut your tongue tie and everything's going to be okay. Very often of health, right? It's like, you know, it's just, you know, if you see it in the alternative world, you see it in the allopathic world, it's the magic bullet. There are no magic bullets. There are none. Yeah. It's the whole body and it's, um,
00:57:06
Speaker
Yeah. And then I get lots of, um, so I will see people after they release the tongue straight after and they're like, I just released it last week. And I said, Oh my goodness. Well, what do I do now? Like, you know, we have to start very, um, from the very beginning and the tongue is not really knowing what to do. Like it's just running freely and there is no, yeah, enough space. But it's interesting because like, um,
00:57:34
Speaker
Sometimes in my hope straight away, like in my case, I knew straight away that it was related to my neck and shoulder issues. And I felt the release after 10 minutes. So that was incredible. But I also did a ton of myofunctional therapy before. And of course, you know, I was really well prepared. I had palatal expansion and so on. So I was really prepared for it. Yeah, we can just, you know,
00:58:02
Speaker
work just on the tongue tie and not worry about anything else. Which is, yeah, which is interesting approach. Yeah. Yeah, very good. Yeah. So like, I saw an interesting thing. It was with the mouth, with the tongue strengthening, I think it was just like, one of the exercises just stick your tongue out as far as you can, like, you can just hold it there, like,
00:58:30
Speaker
Yeah. Is this what you're kind of looking at when you're talking about tongue strengthening? You mentioned like cleaning the teeth is good. Like, is it really just about trying to move the tongue around? You know, like you stretch the tongue, you pull on it or what?
00:58:43
Speaker
Yeah, we don't really pull on it. Well, maybe it's mostly about working every side of the tongue. So the middle part of the tongue, the back tongue, the sides and the front. Because very often people just work the front part of the tongue, the tip of the tongue. And they will say, okay, I can touch my palate like this, but I can actually section the tongue.
00:59:10
Speaker
and have a full section or I can actually click or swallow big tablet or I'm involving other muscles. So yeah, it's a lot of funny faces pulling and looking really weird and funny.
00:59:26
Speaker
But yeah, one of the exercises, I love this exercise and lots of kids love that one. But I do prescribe that for adults as well. It's writing your name on the palate. So imagine your tip of the tongue is your pencil and the palate, which is the roof of the mouth, is your paper and you write your name on it. So you can do it with mouth open and you write your name.
00:59:49
Speaker
Or you can do it with mouth closed if the jaw is too moving around. But you try to not move your jaw as much. So for people who have a bit of deviation, you can just hold it. And they write your name, your numbers, whatever you. But it's a great exercise. And the tongue moves in different positions. And it's kind of easy to do. You can do it in a car. You can do it whenever. Because it's actually not many.
01:00:18
Speaker
You don't need that many repetitions of the tongue exercises during the day. It doesn't need to be two hours workout. Just five minutes here, two minutes there, one minute there. And you kind of build up to that strength. And then you're able to section the tongue to the palate. And the good indication, if you're able to hold the tongue to the palate section nicely for two minutes, and obviously nose breathe,
01:00:46
Speaker
That's a good result. So some people can only do it for 30 seconds and then they get fatigued. So you kind of work to that two minutes mark to give you some indication of how you go. Yeah, but very often, like I said before, like the clicking
01:01:04
Speaker
You know, people can't click or, you know, it's even I had a lady one time and she couldn't do la la la la la sound completely. She couldn't feel that the tongue is touching. And I was like.
01:01:20
Speaker
I don't know. That's surprising because you would think you will use the tongue that way because you speak or you sing or do whatever. But I guess people learn how to compensate. So very often people with tongue mobility issues or tongue ties, they will have speech errors and then they would
01:01:42
Speaker
not use certain words because it's easier to say something else differently. I do that for language because I'm not native speaker, so I use different words because I can't pronounce the other one, but very often people will use different words just because it's easier for them to say it differently, just because the tongue doesn't roll that way.
Sleep Apnea and Tongue Size
01:02:05
Speaker
Yeah, so it's interesting. And people just disregard that because they just learn how to live with it the way how it is. But they feel that the tongue is fatigue or the tongue is feeling too big in their mouth. So that's something actually really interesting. I learned that from
01:02:26
Speaker
Dr. Kalina Borska, which is from UK, based in UK. And she gave me the study about how the tongue gets bigger and fatter with the sleep apnea. So I got many clients who, adult clients, which are coming in and say, I didn't feel that my tongue is so big a couple of years ago. It's been the last couple of years when I actually can feel the tongue is so big. What's happening, you know, the palate didn't change because obviously,
01:02:54
Speaker
They've grown up, so no structural problems and things like that. But what happened with the tongue? But what the study was saying was that the tongue is getting fatter because it's getting big workout during the sleep apnea. So if the person has a sleep apnea episode, it's like a workout. The tongue needs to move away from the airway.
01:03:16
Speaker
And it's actually like a muscle. It is a muscle, a group of muscles. It's like a workout. So it gets bigger and bigger. And that's why it does feel bigger in the mouth because it's actually fatter.
01:03:31
Speaker
It's actually, you know, more muscular with the sleep apnea and how hard it needs to work throughout the night. If the tongue will be resting at the palate, it's actually keeping, it will keep the base of the tongue away from the airway, so it will open up the airway, so it will actually be nicely suctioned to the palate and the airway will stay nicely open.
01:03:58
Speaker
And, but if the tongue sits low or it's curling back and the person also sleeps on the back, it's going to fall back to the, to the palate, to the airway more and keep, uh, have that obstruction. So very often the sleep apnea obstruction could be from the tongue, um, from the tongue itself. Wow. So cool. I remember that. Yeah, really cool. Wow.
01:04:27
Speaker
Well, I think this might be a good time to wrap it up.
Breathing as a Foundation for Health
01:04:30
Speaker
This was, this was amazing. I want you to maybe share any final thoughts that you have, anything that you might have missed that you want to add now or just any, any final notes to leave the listener with. Yeah. Um, I guess to, for people to remember that, um, breathing is fundamental and then you can, you know, do all the dieting, all the biohacking, but actually.
01:04:55
Speaker
Focusing on breathing nice, slowly, gently through the nose. Fixing the breathing if it needs to be, like if you need to involve other specialists to have a look, what's happening maybe structurally. That's something worth doing. And definitely focusing on breathing more than focusing on other things, what's trending and all that. It's the most beneficial. It will be. And it's a long-term investment.
01:05:25
Speaker
Fantastic. Diana, thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, absolutely. It was great. I want to thank you all for listening. Of course, you should know that it's not medical advice for informational purposes only. But remember, we're all responsible sovereign beings capable of criticizing, understanding, and learning absolutely anything. We, the people in the Greater Forests, are together self-healer, self-governable, self-teachers, and so much more. Please reach out if you have any questions. You know where to find me on Instagram.
01:05:56
Speaker
And if you want to support me, uh, I got the buy me a coffee link, uh, that'd be greatly appreciated. Not necessary. Uh, it's going to help me avoid running ads. I won't run ads either way. So I hate ads on podcasts that peeve in mine, but, uh, yeah, liking to share in a comment, all that goes a long way as well. So I'd really appreciate that guys. Um, but yeah, always remember there's two types of people in this world. Those who believe they can, those believe they can't, and they're both correct.
01:06:25
Speaker
All right, guys, remember that. Take care.