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156. Journey Through Pregnancy, Hyperemesis Gravidarum, and the Unseen Struggles - with AIJIA
165 Plays2 years ago
AIJIA, is a songwriter, vocal producer and mom. For years she has dominated the music scene as a writer for some of today’s biggest acts. She lent her ear as Talent Producer for NBC’s hit show SONGLAND. She uses her platform to advocate for women’s equality and growth - a theme in her original music. She is heading into her 11th year as ambassador for Rock Camp For Girls and is an ambassador for The HER Foundation, providing resources and research into the serious pregnancy complication, Hyperemesis Gravidarum, of which she experienced. Most days you can find her in a recording studio or playing with her two daughters.
Connect with AIJIA https://www.instagram.com/aijiaofficial/
https://aijiamusic.com/
Contact Kendra Rinaldi to be a guest on the show: https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
• Aijia's mantra of "This is temporary" and her daily countdown to cope with the challenging moments of hyperemesis gravidarum during her pregnancies.
• The importance of having a support system that understands and doesn't try to fix the situation, but simply holds space and offers love and energy
• The power of companionship and empathy in helping someone going through a difficult medical experience like hyperemesis gravidarum.
• Aijia's determination to raise awareness about the condition and support other women facing similar challenges.
• The significance of recognizing that medical conditions like hyperemesis gravidarum are not related to one's outlook or emotional state but require proper medical attention and understanding.
• Other of her personal experiences with grief and transformation
· We talk about the lively personality of AIJIA's grandmother, nicknamed Hurricane Millie and the close and energetic relationship AIJIA shared with her. Including some funny stories about their relationship.
· The importance of support through groups or therapy, normalizing the grieving process.
The powerful and spiritual experience AIJIA had while assisting her grandmother in her final moments.
· The connection between AIJIA's background in birth support and her unique approach to her grandmother's passing.
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Transcript
The Impact of Denial on Grief
00:00:02
Speaker
The denial of someone's grief is almost worse than the thing itself, because when you aren't reflected back what you're experiencing, and when you're denied what you're experiencing by people around you that you love and that are supposed to be supportive, you feel, oh, am I crazy? Am I? And then, and then you're alone in your grief.
Introducing the Podcast and Guest
00:00:29
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast. This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:00:52
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys. I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
Meet Asia: Musician and Advocate
00:01:14
Speaker
Thank you all for being on the podcast today. Today, we have Asia. She is a songwriter and vocal producer, and most importantly, a mom. And for years, she's dominated the music industry, not only with her own songs, but also producing for very big acts out there. And recently, she has lent her ear to being a talent producer on NBC's hit show Songland. So you might have.
00:01:42
Speaker
seen her there. But aside from all this, she is also very passionate about doing work for others like her 11-year ambassadorship. Is that how you would say that? Being an ambassador. I think so.
00:01:59
Speaker
ambassadorship, I'm using big words, for rock camp for girls, as well as an ambassador for the Her Foundation, which is something we'll be talking more about today because it's bringing awareness about serious complications during pregnancy, which I will let you pronounce what it, hyperemesis gravidarium. Did I say it right? Hyperemesis gravidarium.
00:02:24
Speaker
It sounds like a Harry Potter. Like this?
Asia's Pregnancy Challenges and Grief
00:02:30
Speaker
Like a spell that we're about to name? That's so true. Well, welcome Asia. Hello. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for asking me to join. I am so glad you said yes. So thank you again for saying yes. Now, when we were going back and forth as to what we were going to talk about today. First, you had a very clear sharing that you wanted to share about
00:02:54
Speaker
the experiences you have had since the passing of both your grandfathers and your grandmother. But then you're like, wait a minute, can I also share about grief that's outside of the losing, quote unquote, about death and the loss of even the dreams and ideas and expectations of what we had. And in this case, that was one of your big ones, which was
00:03:20
Speaker
your pregnancy, your first pregnancy, and we can go from there. So let's just start chatting about that. Well, I'm so grateful to be here. Yeah. When you brought up this topic of grief, the first thing, you know, I think we've all experienced grief of a loved one, which I definitely fall under that category as well. But the thing that came to me immediately when you said the word grief,
00:03:48
Speaker
was so early in my first pregnancy, I began feeling really, really ill, like most women do, you know, nauseous, can't keep food down, yada, yada, yada. You know, everybody tells you that, you know, pregnancy is first trimester is rough and you'll be fine.
00:04:10
Speaker
And for me, it was it got progressively worse. And I ended up being very, very ill for the whole entire pregnancy.
Lack of Support and Societal Expectations
00:04:19
Speaker
And hyperemesis gravidarum is basically categorized as a life threatening pregnancy condition in which your body essentially cannot stop vomiting. Like can't stop.
00:04:35
Speaker
something about the pregnancy turns it on and it can't stop. So the problem with that is that you become extremely malnourished. You become dehydrated when you're dehydrated. You can faint. You can have a heart attack. You can fall down and hit your head and become concussed.
00:04:53
Speaker
Not to mention that Your child is not getting any nutrients, right? So it's not just like oh, I'll have a couple crackers and I'm okay It's like no a lot of people with hyperemesis gravid arm are on feeding tubes And spend a lot of their pregnancies in and out of the hospital so for me
00:05:16
Speaker
That was a real grief point because for my whole life I had idealized this idea of pregnancy and I'm going to be like have a big belly and I'm going to be going everywhere and I'll feel great and everybody will be just around me and I'll be wearing cute little pregnancy outfits. And when I got pregnant, it was not that way.
00:05:40
Speaker
And in addition to the fact that everyone tells you the whole time, oh, this is just what it is and you'll be fine. And you should be happy because you're having a baby. So you should be happy. You aren't allowed to feel sad.
00:06:02
Speaker
And I spent the better part of a year at my toilet or in a bed. I couldn't walk, I was fainting if I stood up, but everybody's like, you should be grateful, you know? Of course, right? You're having a baby and that's great and you're happy about it, but you can't even get there because you're like passing out and living on the toilet floor.
00:06:28
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Were you also hospitalized at your pregnancy as well? I was in and out of the hospital, yeah. And also not to mention our medical institutions are so vastly under educated about hyperemesis gravidarum as they are about many female conditions.
00:06:51
Speaker
because we don't put any of our research or finances or resources into studying female illnesses. So a lot of what I was getting in the early days was like, you're fine. It'll go away. You'll be fine.
00:07:06
Speaker
I'm checking into the hospital every other day and they're like, oh yeah, you're just pregnant. And then come to find out, no, it's a condition and it's genetic. There's many resources, but you can't get them funded through regular insurance.
Education and Advocacy for Hyperemesis Gravidarum
00:07:25
Speaker
So if you want, there's like a medication that I was on called Zofran.
00:07:29
Speaker
which is often given to cancer patients during chemo. My mom took that to prevent the nausea during chemo, so I know exactly what it is. Wow. And it's just not funded by insurance. And I am a
00:07:45
Speaker
middle-class white woman, like, can you imagine the access to it was difficult for me and I get hundreds of emails and DMs in my inbox of women just trying to get the medication. So this, when you brought up grief, I was like, that is where my grief lays. And so I've spent a lot of my life trying to
00:08:13
Speaker
educate, help fund, do whatever I can do on my behalf to correct it for other women coming after me.
00:08:23
Speaker
Bringing awareness is so important because just as we were even talking about the part of even bringing grief to light, right? Just having these conversations about grief because people don't even know they're grieving. A lot of women don't even know they've had hyperemesis gravidar. And they're probably just put aside, kind of like, oh, you're just being overdramatic because of course,
00:08:45
Speaker
Women are always hormonal. Yeah. We're always hormonal. All our stuff is always things that have to do with just being overdramatic. And so you're being dramatic. Everybody gets nauseous. You know, just it'll pass. You're fine. You should be happy every year. You're you're it's a blessing. Right.
00:09:05
Speaker
And I think the denial of someone's grief is almost worse than the thing itself because when you aren't reflected back what you're experiencing and when you're denied what you're experiencing by people around you that you love and that are supposed to be supportive, you feel, oh, am I crazy? And then you're alone in your grief, right?
00:09:32
Speaker
It isolates you even more. Yeah. When you're needing that companionship, that support in these moments, it even isolates you even more because you don't feel understood and validated. And therefore, if you don't feel seen, then why wouldn't you? What are we doing here? Yeah. So then in this process, then of you going through this, going back and forth, how long did it take for you to actually get the diagnosis and then be taken seriously?
00:09:59
Speaker
So I was not given the diagnosis until after the pregnancy was over. No. Yes. I was given the hyperemesis diagnosis after I heard it. The words from Amy Schumer's special because Amy Schumer also suffered from hyperemesis gravidar.
00:10:18
Speaker
I went back to my doctors and I said, is this what I had? And he goes, yes, but there's no cure for it. So it's not helpful for me to tell you that because then you're just going to go on a mad Google hunt. And I knew that there wasn't any cure for it. So I was just trying to keep you positive. I was infuriated.
00:10:43
Speaker
I was so angry. Oh, I'm angry for you right now. The fact that you're so down about it afterwards. Because again, it makes you even, yes, okay, yes, maybe you go and Google and find out about it, but at least you don't feel crazy, like you said. And you're not alone. And you're not alone. You know that there's other women that go through this as well. So my second pregnancy, so needless to say, had I had more information, I would not, I don't know, would I have chosen to get pregnant again? Maybe not.
00:11:11
Speaker
Right. Everyone told me. Oh, it's a one time thing. Every pregnancy is different. It might not be like that. It was a fluke. Right. Now that I've done a lot of research, I know that it's genetic. And typically, if you have it in one pregnancy, you're likely to have it in the others. There is the off chance, you know, there's always an off chance, but most likely you have it throughout your pregnancies because it's my body. Right. It's like my genetics.
00:11:41
Speaker
Right. So I got pregnant again, a couple of years later, went through it again. However, this time I was really on it. I got on Zofran immediately and I didn't just get on Zofran. They have pills, but the problem with the pills is that they wear off. So like an Advil wears off, right? And then your headache starts coming back and you could take another Advil, but you have to wait till the four hours have passed. To alternate, like kind of alternate.
00:12:11
Speaker
And there's no alternating because it's just one medication. So I ended up getting on what's called a Zofran pump, which is a little machine that I wore. It looks like, you know, I don't know. I carried around a little machine. It was, uh, needled into me and I had to needle myself every day.
00:12:33
Speaker
I actually have, it probably would look like, like an old version of what insulin, insulin, yeah. That's what it would look like. Yeah. The old school versions of insulin pumps. Yeah. It was like a little fanny pack that I wore or a purse. Um, and it was connected to me at all times, 24 hours a day. And that made it like two notches better. Maybe three, maybe three notches enough to where it makes you physically not vomit.
00:13:03
Speaker
This is like a really lovely podcast because we're just like talking about this. Yeah, maybe that's what I have to put the disclaimer at the beginning. If you're sensitive, don't be eating while you're listening to this podcast. I felt well enough. I could keep the food in me. I still felt sick all the time, but the food was staying in. So that was a big improvement because then I wasn't fainting.
Systemic Issues and Insurance Struggles
00:13:24
Speaker
My heart, I wasn't getting heart palpitations, which are very scary when you're like so depleted that you're getting, your heart is whacking out. And I was not losing a tremendous amount of weight. So I still felt bad, but I was healthier, right? The baby was getting what the baby needed. We were okay. And I just, and then there was a new grief because I thought the medication was going to fix it all.
00:13:51
Speaker
I thought I was going to get the medication and everything was going to be perfect. And then I was going to be in my cute pregnancy outfits and out in the world and living in among the people that I love. And I still felt terrible.
00:14:04
Speaker
It was a real grief point for me because I felt loss. I felt a loss of a year, a whole year, right? Like, you know, you have nine months of pregnancy and then a couple months where you just hibernate with your newborn. It was a year that I dropped out of the world twice, right? So, and grief that I couldn't, didn't
00:14:31
Speaker
have a body that just worked? Like why doesn't my body work? Why do other people's bodies work? Why does my friend like tell me she loves being pregnant and it's the happiest she's ever been? And I'm like, it's the, I call, I used to call it barf jail. That's what I would call it.
00:14:50
Speaker
Because I was I felt like I was in prison and I couldn't get out and no one could help me and then it's over and You're fine. And you're just like click out of it. But also you've been handed a newborn after living on the floor for a year
00:15:05
Speaker
So it was a really interesting journey that I went through. And I also will say that the second time I got very involved with the Herr Foundation. And the Herr Foundation is this nonprofit that has research, resources, lots of information about hyperemesis gravidarum. And from that organization, I found a support group.
00:15:28
Speaker
which was a big part of my journey through this grief because I found a group of women that were experiencing the same thing as me while I was in it. And I was able to go and be part of that. And I've still since send women to this support group all the time because it really helped me because I felt like I had a unit. I had a team. We were in it together, you know, and that made all the difference.
00:15:56
Speaker
That is so true, because you feel accompaniment. You feel heard. You don't feel like you're the only crazy person out there. Of course. You feel like, OK, I'm not the only one going through this. Now, what would you say for somebody that starts experiencing, let's say, in the first trimester, OK, yes, you've got the nausea and stuff. If you go into your second trimester and you're still feeling certain signs, what are some of these things? How do you qualify? Yes, there you go. How would you qualify?
00:16:25
Speaker
One of the reasons that this has been hard to study is that everyone's ability to handle illness and pain is different, right? How do you measure pain? How do you measure illness? Somebody having to run to the toilet 20 times a day and someone having to run three times a day, how do you measure? So they basically measure by,
00:16:55
Speaker
how many times a day you have to run to the toilet and, you know, feel sick, how much weight you're losing, because in a pregnancy you're supposed to be gaining weight, but typically people with hyperemesis are losing weight and fast, right?
00:17:12
Speaker
if you're having heart palpitations, which means your heart is not getting enough fluids, right? It's you're dehydrated and they check your hydration, they check, you know, they do blood panel, they see where you're at. But it really is up to the person to make that call. And I, if you don't know the word to say, then you aren't bringing it up to your doctor. And if the doctor thinks, oh, well,
00:17:40
Speaker
It's like telling someone they have vertigo, like we can't heal it. So I'm not going to, like why say the word, which is, was, you know, his ideology, but, but the support groups and the finding other women, that is why you find your people.
00:18:01
Speaker
And then you advocate and then, you know, I, I, again, I can't tell you how many times a day I get DMS just from strangers on Instagram navigating this and I'm sending them off to the, her foundation or one woman reached out to me and said she was in this fight with her medical team because insurance didn't want to pay for the Zofran pump. And her first child.
00:18:29
Speaker
came out with cerebral palsy as a complication of her being so malnourished from her hyperemesis in her first pregnancy. And so she leveraged that to get the medication in her second, and she's the first woman in Massachusetts to get a Zofran pump. This is in 2023, you guys.
00:18:50
Speaker
Wow. In 2023. Wow. So what's wrong here? What's broken? And why are we not looking into this more? There's a million different kinds of Viagra. This is like a part in Amy Schumer's comedy pitch. She's like, there's chewable Viagra.
00:19:17
Speaker
And like, we don't know anything about pregnancy or what is going on. What's going on? What's going on is probably the people doing the research do have a penis as a vagina. That's probably what goes on.
00:19:34
Speaker
We're 50% of the population. We need to know what's going on with us. So you've been with this foundation then for how long then since your pregnancy? How old is Lu? No, Izzy is your second one. Izzy is my second one. So I've been with them.
00:19:51
Speaker
I guess since she was born, so I'm at about three years. I think I've been an ambassador for two years, which basically is just a fancy way to say I help raise awareness and try to show up and talk on their Instagram and I send people there. It's a nonprofit, registered nonprofit.
00:20:08
Speaker
And the fundraising that they do goes directly to research. So they have done a study in the last couple of years here that they funded. I don't know if I'm going to pronounce her name right. Dr. Fezio. I think that's how you say her name.
00:20:25
Speaker
But she has made this sort of her area of expertise. And they've just identified that they tested all these women with this condition and found that a lot of them had these two genes in common that other people didn't have.
00:20:42
Speaker
So they've started to recognize like, oh, something's off with these two genes, which is creating this in only these women. And that can change things because you could potentially test for it.
00:20:58
Speaker
And maybe that won't change if you have it or not, but it can change if you can financially prepare for it, to be sick for a year and to be out of the workforce. It can change how you save up to pay for the medications that you're going to need. It can change what kind of insurance you decide to invest in. It can change if you can decide if you have the capacity, if you have other children, but now you're going to be sick for a year.
00:21:25
Speaker
How do you parent those other children? Like I have a lot of grief about my first daughter missing out on that year with me because I wasn't, I was in bed. You know, she, she didn't have a mom.
Coping with Grief and Body Image
00:21:41
Speaker
I could only read her books in bed. That was the only thing I could do. I couldn't take her anywhere. I didn't, we didn't go to the park. I didn't go to a restaurant. There was like loss there that.
00:21:53
Speaker
I won't get back and I just want to help other people not have to have that to that level. And it's also, we're in America where we have access to medical, whether or not we can get it paid for. And there's parts of the world that don't have any, I mean, there's women dying and just like losing babies over and over again because they can't keep a cracker down.
00:22:21
Speaker
This is so important and thank you for offering to share this part of your journey because again it is that awareness and something I did not know about. I've known of people feeling sick through their pregnancy but I never knew the name until I started following you on Instagram and I remember
00:22:40
Speaker
seeing the pictures of you with the pump, and that was then your second pregnancy, then that you had that. So thank you for sharing this very important topic and theme. Now, I want to ask you, during that time, you mentioned it was hard to feel seen. What were some of the things? Because in grief, we talk about what tools helped us kind of go through it and live through this experience of grief.
00:23:06
Speaker
So in your grief journey, what things helped you or eased your soul in those moments?
00:23:13
Speaker
I think my mantra was, this is temporary. This is temporary. This will pass. I will not be in this moment forever. And that was the only thing I could hold on to because that was I was just wanted to be out of my skin. And there was no getting out of my skin. So I just every day I'd be like,
00:23:39
Speaker
48 more days. Okay. 47 more days. For, you know, I really was like counting the moments down. And sometimes I was going by the hour, like in recovery, like in sobriety recovery. So like, if I can just make it through the next hour.
00:23:56
Speaker
I'm going to be okay. I just have to make it one hour and I have to make it the rest of the pregnancy, just like the next hour. And then also just having a lot of support and understanding from the people around me. I think one of the kindest things you can do for someone who's really ill is just come hang out with them and not try to fix it.
00:24:25
Speaker
and not try to resolve or talk to them about how they're resolving or tell them the ways that you've resolved it to just come. The people that I love the deepest showed up and laid on the couch with me and we didn't even really talk. And I had a bowl next to me.
00:24:48
Speaker
and we watched like bad reality TV and then every once in a while they'd refill my water and hand me a toast that would never stay in me. And we didn't even, like they'd come for a couple hours and no, really no exchange was happening words wise. Just energy wise, just energetic wise, yes. Just energy and like just sitting with me in it. Just holding space, right? Yes.
00:25:18
Speaker
holding space and not trying to fix it. And not trying to like, tell me like the worst for me. Oh, the worst was people going like, first of all, don't can we say bad words on this? I don't know. Yeah. No, just to be no, no, I know you are. I can see you kind of holding back. I'm certain you're like, Oh, and so then I was in this
00:25:44
Speaker
Like if one more fucking person came to me like have you tried ginger I Was gonna kill them like ginger is not going to help me right now like ginger They're like have you journaled? I'm like I can't I
00:26:01
Speaker
hold a pencil up right now. I'm in the quicksand. I can't journal right now in this moment. Or people saying, well, maybe you just need to get up and take a walk around the block and muscle through and change your outlook about it.
00:26:23
Speaker
I was like, I'm not having a bad outlook. I am having a medical condition. I'm not having a depression because I'm having depression. I'm having a medical condition, which is making me feel bummed out. I think what you're sharing right now is so important for all of us that are listening because so many of us do try to help in that way.
00:26:51
Speaker
and we feel we're being helpful. Now, I'll say this though, just because if by chance any of us have done that and said the wrong thing, we've all done it, right? We've done it. We've said the wrong thing. Your love is still felt, right? A hundred percent. Yeah. It's just a matter of like in the future now. When you know more, you do more. Exactly. Exactly. So it does help. When someone is ill, coming to their house,
00:27:18
Speaker
bringing them water, bringing them food, not talking their ear off, doing some dishes, taking the trash out, and then just laying with them where they're at, meeting them where they're at. That's the most helpful thing. Pregnancy, postpartum, someone with a new baby, someone getting chemo, someone who's just lost a parent, any of those things. Still all the same rules apply.
00:27:42
Speaker
What you just said is meeting them where they're at. That part is one of the things that I think is super important in grief because somebody else might need something different than what you needed. For somebody else, it might be that they do want X, Y, Z. I don't know. They want some jokes. I don't know. But for you, this was where you were at.
00:28:04
Speaker
So, in a grief companionship as a companion, one is being you, being authentic to who you are as that person that is there to accompany that person, but at the same time following the lead of the grieve or the person that's sick and kind of following their energy and what it is that they're needing.
00:28:22
Speaker
And in your particular case, the people that kind of were there for you to just lay down next to you, hold the even hold the pot or hold your hair back as you threw. Yeah, that was how you felt the most. That was how I felt the most loved. Yeah, I will say that. My opinion comes from.
00:28:47
Speaker
observing how other people sometimes are uncomfortable in your discomfort.
00:28:56
Speaker
They are uncomfortable watching you be not okay. I think it comes from a desire to fix it because they want you to feel good so that they can feel okay because there's a problem and they want to fix it. It's not coming from a bad place, but when there's a problem that's not fixable right now,
00:29:19
Speaker
then I then there's no there's no job for you to do other than just hold space for me. Right. And so
00:29:31
Speaker
I, one of the things that my therapist said to me during this time, because there was a, um, actually it was my brother. I don't think he'll mind me saying this. My brother had a really hard time when I was sick. He didn't know what to do. He kept coming over and trying to like zhuzh me up.
00:29:52
Speaker
He kept trying to get me to go on a walk. He wanted to force-feed me and shove electrolytes in me. And I know that it was coming from a place of love.
00:30:05
Speaker
I was ill and it just had to run its course, right? Like I just, I couldn't, I couldn't muster it up. I was just, I just needed it to finish and then it was going to be okay. And so one of the things that I, I recognized with him was that it made him really nervous. Like he was feeling, I could see he was feeling fear at how I looked.
00:30:31
Speaker
And so my therapist suggested he just doesn't know what his role is. Like he doesn't know what he's supposed to do. He doesn't know what his job is. So can you just give him a job that would be helpful? Like tell him literally what you need him to do that would be helpful to you right now so that he can stop shoving almonds at you.
00:30:55
Speaker
And I was like, oh, okay. So he'd show up and I'd be like, Robin, can you just go fix all the things broken in my house right now? Like the door's falling off. Can you go tighten the handle on the thing? Can you go take the trash out, do a load of laundry and wash the dishes? And then come say bye.
00:31:17
Speaker
Do that. And that's what I need from you. And then he was like, okay. He came with this toolbox and he like fixed all the things. He just like didn't know what his role was. And so he was driving me nuts. What a great advice. Just you just told, yeah, just give them the job then. He needed a tactical thing that he was doing that was helping. And so we had to come up with that for him.
00:31:44
Speaker
That is so perfect. Something came up when you were talking about just your grief and just how people also worried about you because here it's not just you. It's also the child you're carrying. So how did that grief also relate to that? Either how you would feel others relating to you and then the baby or even for yourself to be able to still
00:32:13
Speaker
I like you said, you didn't have a time to journal. So how, how were you kind of coping with that dynamic and that relationship when you were also.
00:32:24
Speaker
just throwing up with the relationship with you as your child in your room. One of the biggest things I was worried about was putting bad energy on my belly. I was constantly worried about that. I didn't want to be vibrating bad to her or something. And also, the other part of this is
00:32:49
Speaker
I still had to give birth at the end, which is a whole mountain that you have to climb, right? So I needed to not be in a space where my psyche was telling myself that I'm broken. My body doesn't work. My physical state is bad because I needed to feel that I could do this thing. And I did not want a C-section. I wanted to give birth.
00:33:17
Speaker
So I, uh, one of the things that I did a lot of was, um, I, I had a hypnotist come several, many times. I don't know how, I never counted how many we did, but I'd say we probably did like seven, seven sessions, more than an hour each. And the whole, you know, part of the hypnosis was I was like, is there something in my past that I'm doing that I did that,
00:33:47
Speaker
made me feel like sick all the time. Like what happened? Did I get food poisoning when I was three and I'm like holding on to it or I don't know. The trauma. Like what trauma am I holding on to? Yeah. And then but the other part of it was getting into a state of I'm healthy and this baby is healthy and this baby wants to be here and this baby is strong and we are strong and
00:34:16
Speaker
you know, getting into that mindset so that I could bring her earthside and she would be okay. And so we did a lot of work around that and we did a lot of work around. The second time was all about, I'm not broken. This is just like a thing that my body's doing and it knows what it's doing and it's smart and it's, my body knows what's going on and it's doing this for a reason. And there is like a divine
00:34:45
Speaker
purpose to what's happening right now. And it doesn't mean that it's wrong. That was my whole work of the second time. And if I could really accept that, then I could, then I wasn't giving her like bad vibes in the womb. You know, then I was like, we're doing it together. She's going to be good. We're all like, it's all, and guess what?
00:35:12
Speaker
First pregnancy was a C-section. Second pregnancy was a home birth in my living room, in a pool of water. So we did it, man. Yeah. Be back and all. Awesome. Now, with that part of the, not only your own affirmations and kind of shift of how you did then the second time around, how was it then because your oldest- Louis is my first one.
00:35:41
Speaker
Louis, she was just little. She's seeing mom being sick. How did you verbalize to her how you were feeling when you were carrying her little sister? How was that communication between the two of you? Well, for the beginning of it, I was trying to hide it.
00:36:03
Speaker
which was not the right move because I thought, I'll just, I don't want her to see me like this. I don't want her to. So I kept saying I was tired. Mommy is really tired. Mommy needs to alone time. Mommy needs to take a nap.
Remembering Grandmother Millie
00:36:16
Speaker
Mommy's tired. Mommy's hard. And we all kind of did that. And again, my therapist was like, you're not tired. You're ill. You're really ill. And you're, you're sort of like.
00:36:30
Speaker
bowling over her, her knowing because she's seeing you be sick. And then you're telling her that you're not sick, which is confusing. So then we redirected and we just said, you know, mommy's sick. We never blamed it on the baby because I didn't want her to have a resentment towards the baby.
00:36:50
Speaker
Um, so we just said, I'm sick. My body's doing something right now that's really hard and it's making me feel sick and making me feel tired. And so I'm going to have to spend a lot of time in bed and you still can come see me anytime you want in bed. And that's kind of what we did. And.
00:37:10
Speaker
I think that it was really important that we shifted direction because in a way we were gaslighting her because she was experiencing that everyone was freaked out and we were not allowing that. And that actually really
00:37:30
Speaker
informed how I handled it a little bit later when my grandmother passed. Because I had tools for how to deal with it with her as for, with a little kid, because I had already done it a way that didn't work. And I knew that I wasn't going to do that again when my grandmother passed, who lived with us, who she had seen and was, you know, in a relationship with anyways, to segue.
00:37:59
Speaker
That's actually, that's a beautiful segue. Thank you. I wanted to, before we segue and talk about your grandmother, Millie, that's your grandmother's name. Let me say something else here to the listeners to what you mentioned regarding verbalizing, what you actually were going through.
00:38:20
Speaker
We try to shelter our kids so much from things, yet not seeing that. They do see that. They do know what's going on, and it was so important for you as a family to be honest with her in a way that was in her level of understanding, right, of her age and appropriate for her age. She was only one or two. How old was she? She was two, two and a half. Two, so you said it in a way that was important.
00:38:50
Speaker
So tell me then more about your grandmother Millie. Yes. Or me or the audience as well as then how did this shift your conversation then to your daughters when she passed away? Well, Millie is the easiest person to talk about because she was such a party fun time. Her nickname was Hurricane Millie. And that is like really what she was. She was like a hurricane came through.
00:39:19
Speaker
And my grandmother was from southern Louisiana. And I always said, if I had met her and we were the same age, we would have been best friends. Like we really were close, very close. Like I think it was one of the closest relationships I had. And not just because we were family, but because we had similar energy. In the end, there's so much to say about her. In the end of her life, she came to live with us. She lived with my mother next door.
00:39:50
Speaker
She also had a senior living, which was close by. And so she'd go there for a week and she'd come here for a week and she'd go there. And after a week, she'd be like, I'm sick of you guys, take me back. And then we'd take her back and then she'd be there and she'd be like, I hate this place, pick me up. And we just did that.
00:40:06
Speaker
for two years. She's like chain smoking her cigarette on the porch with a Manhattan. Like this is who she was. She would like wear like she's full on makeup. Like she's old and skinny and frail with like a Manhattan glass martini and her nails done. You know, that's who she was.
00:40:29
Speaker
So she was a blast and as she was in life, she was in death and she went out in a brain hemorrhage on a one moment and she was out. That was it.
00:40:45
Speaker
And she didn't have some long drawn out things. She just like, my brother always says like, like in the Wizard of Oz, he imagined it being like a poof of green smoke. Like she threw it on the ground and it poofed up and she was gone. And so.
00:41:03
Speaker
There was a 24 hour. This is like a funny, weird story. Okay. This is, I think she would, I think she would appreciate the story. So I'm going to tell it, but I don't know if my mom would appreciate me telling the story. My grandmother, as many old women do, would occasionally get like a chin hair, you know, chin hair.
00:41:24
Speaker
And whenever she would show up to our house, she'd be like, Asia, go get the tweezers. I can't see it. It's too small for me. I can't get it. I don't want it there. Get it. And so it became like this funny thing that we did together. Every time she would show up, she'd be like, go get the tweezers. I don't want anyone to see it. And because she was very glamorous, you know? And so it was this thing that we had. And excuse me.
00:41:55
Speaker
In the day where she had her aneurysm and she fell, there was like almost 24 hours, I don't know, 12 hours where she was like technically still alive, but not awake. She was in the hospital and she was passing. And they called us, this is the middle of COVID.
00:42:17
Speaker
They called us and they said, uh, if you come right now, you can come say goodbye to her body. She's, she's gonna pass. I don't know. By the time I arrived at the hospital, she had passed. And so it was me and my mom in a room with her. And I think the rest of the family had a, they didn't want to see her that way.
00:42:40
Speaker
And I, I don't know if it's like morbid or what, but it was, I was like, I need to see her. I need to like say goodbye and go visually say goodbye. So I went there and she was already passed and I was in the room with her and my mom and we were crying and we were also laughing because it was like a very, her way to go out. Just like quick, not didn't say bye to anyone, just split.
00:43:05
Speaker
And we're sobbing and my mom and me are holding each other and I was like, she has a chin hair. Mom, she has a chin hair. And I went and I pulled it and my mom was like, my God, I can't believe it. I was like, she wouldn't want to go out like that with that chin hair on her. She doesn't want to go out that way.
00:43:26
Speaker
You know, we're like puffy faced and sobbing. I'm like, she does not want to be seen even by the hospital folk with that chin hair in her chin. And that is what she would want. And and we were like crying and laughing and sobbing and like it was it was wonderful.
00:43:46
Speaker
I love it. I love the chin hair story. That is so cool. Yeah, because you still treated her like her and what she would have wanted. And you honored her by taking off the chin hair. I love that. Not everyone can handle that story. They're like, how dare you defile her? I'm like, no. No, she was a beautiful woman.
00:44:11
Speaker
And she didn't want that chin hair though, let me tell you. And because this was an ongoing thing the two of you had. It was not like randomly you're like focusing on her chin hair. No, she was the one that would focus on her chin hair and would ask you to take. No, I think it's beautiful. It's a perfect way to honor her and who she was by doing that. Now, how then did you talk to the girls then? Well, at that moment, yeah. Yeah, I had them both. Both, OK.
00:44:40
Speaker
So how did you tell them about this transition of life? Well, one thing I did was I called a friend who volunteers at Our House, which is a grief organization for kids. So it's like support groups and they have camps, sleepily camps, and they have like activities and meetups and whatever. So I've done some things with Our House and I called a friend who volunteered there and I was like, all right, how do I, how do I do this? I'm going to have to go tell them.
00:45:09
Speaker
And it's not like a distant grandma in a different state. It's someone that they saw yesterday who read them a book, you know what I mean? And so she said, you use the word dead, died. You don't use abstract words because kids can't understand abstract, like in the sky with God in heaven, you know. She went to sleep forever. It's a weird idea, right? So I said,
00:45:38
Speaker
Guys, I want to sit, I sat them down and I said, I want to tell you that granny died. And what that means is that her body isn't working anymore. And her body decided it was ready to be done. And so we talked about what that meant and that that means that we won't get to see her anymore.
00:45:57
Speaker
But that love that we had with her never dies, and we'll always have that love. And anytime you miss her, you can think of her and think of her love and remember her, and that never goes away.
00:46:10
Speaker
And then I made a little like cheap CVS photo album of pictures of them with her and I, and we put it in the living room and every day we talked about it and looked at it and we'd say prayers for her. And at bedtime I'd say like, if granny was here, what would you want to tell her? And we, and we really like borderline over talked about it.
00:46:34
Speaker
And then it wasn't some taboo thing, you know? We just was part of it. And there would be moments where I would cry, like I'd be cooking something and I'd be like, oh, granny used to make this. And then I'd cry. And a couple of times my older daughter said, I don't want you to make that anymore then, because every time you make that, it makes you cry. And then I'd have to sit down with her and be like,
00:47:01
Speaker
Yeah, does it make you uncomfortable? Did it make you uncomfortable when you saw me crying? You know, even grownups cry and it's okay to cry and I actually felt better.
00:47:11
Speaker
after I cried about it and so we just tried to like normalize that experience a lot so that it wasn't taboo and still now we've kind of gotten over the hump of it it's been a little over a year we still bring her up all the time and actually like we we've made like little code words for our family like little
Spiritual Experiences and Acceptance
00:47:35
Speaker
That's a granny thing, you know, whatever. And we do that often because she's she's around, you know, she's part of it. It's part of the day. Now, anytime I'm going to pull one of my chin hairs. When you have unwanted hair, you think of my grandmother. She would be honored.
00:47:55
Speaker
Now, you mentioned you had some really interesting kind of spiritual stories. Is it around your grandmother, Millie? Yes, I have one with her. Okay, I have one with her. Millie, and then you also then ... Yeah, and just to still ... We can mention your grandfather, John, and your grandfather, Lloyd. They passed away five years. We could stay with them, but just to ... We'll still give them energy in this podcast anyway through mentioning their name, but go ahead. So tell us some stories.
00:48:24
Speaker
In that 12-hour period where my grandmother was dying but wasn't passed yet, I had a phone call with a friend who's very intuitive and someone that's very wise that I love and look up to.
00:48:41
Speaker
And she said, oh, OK, wait, let me let me sidebar this with I've done a lot of work in the birth space because of the whole high premises thing. And before the high premises thing, I've been a birth doula. So I've I've been with people through their births. I've had births in my house. I've had other people's births in my house. I've really been part of like. I'm very connected to birth in whatever weird way.
00:49:10
Speaker
And so I had talked to this friend and she, I said, my grandmother is like on her way out and I'm really sad and I don't know what to do. And should I go there? And, um,
00:49:26
Speaker
I was just like grieving and she said, I see that she is like near the end and it's her time to go, but she doesn't have anyone to sort of like walk her through it, like, like a birth doula, but a death doula. And if you wanted to be that, you could. And you don't have to, but she, she's a little like unsure of where to go.
00:49:55
Speaker
And she said, you don't have to go to the hospital to do it. You could just do it from where you are. Like you could get into a super meditative zone and go and connect with her in the ethos and like talk to her and say goodbye and tell her, you know, it's okay to go and whatever. So I, she said it and I was like, I'm supposed to do that. Okay.
00:50:21
Speaker
So I hung up and I got into like a meditative state. I was alone. I got it all quiet and I got into like a zone and I just talked to her like if she was in front of me. And I immediately saw her in like a black space, like a big black nothingness room. And I was in this room with her and I said, Granny,
00:50:49
Speaker
you're almost there like it's that way and I could see that like off in the distance there was a little light like that way and she goes I don't see it I don't know what you're talking about which way and I was like it's over there look turn around see that and she's looking and she's squinting and she's like I don't see it I don't know what I don't see it
00:51:13
Speaker
And I said, hold my hand, and I started walking with her towards it. And we walked together towards this light. And she was like, I still don't see it. And I'm pointing. I'm like, see it? It's right there. Look right there. And then we walked together. And then at some point she goes, oh, I see that.
00:51:32
Speaker
And I said, that's the way. And she goes, okay. And she let go of my hand. No hug, nothing. She let go of my hand and she just walked that way. And then I came out of my thing. I'm not lying when I tell you, 10 minutes later, I got a call that she died.
00:51:51
Speaker
10 minutes, I was sobbing, I was ugly, hysterically, like ugly crying. Like this, like I am? I was ugly, snotty crying. And it really felt like we did it. We did it. And so in the grief of that relationship coming to its end here on Earth, I always feel like I don't have a lot of
00:52:21
Speaker
I have sadness that I don't get to see her, but I don't have a lot of loss about it. Cause we did everything we needed to do. We said all the things we needed to say. We love each other all the way. We, we were like buddies to the end. And, and then I pulled her chin hair out and that was, and that was like, we did, we had served each other all the way. That was my most spiritual experience that I've ever had in my life.
00:52:53
Speaker
It was powerful. It was beautiful. I'm just grateful for you sharing it with us. With her, because one thing is for you as somebody that's grieving being in that
00:53:08
Speaker
acceptance space of how you at least view death, right? How was it for her as she was getting older? Did she ever talk about her own mortality and her perception of death? Just curious.
00:53:28
Speaker
because it's just a part of what you just said, of her needing that accompaniment of that, like somehow, like was there still something within her that she was unsure of what would occur? I think that overall, she was someone who lived very big and gregariously and held on to youth.
00:53:55
Speaker
Right. She had, I mean, she went out with a lot of lip filler and a lot of like her hair died to the end of her life. And she was really always like, she was glamorous, you know? And so I think that death and the idea of aging was scary to her because one of her, that she felt her most
00:54:25
Speaker
affluent qualities was her beauty. She felt that that was like.
The Role of Support Groups
00:54:31
Speaker
one of her assets. And so I think that it was hard for her as that diminished. And what we were all saying to her all the time was like, that's not even your your your vibe is the whole thing. It's the it's it's not your beauty physically like she was a vibe. She was like pinching my friend's butts and like she was hilarious. So. I think that that aging process was really hard for her.
00:55:02
Speaker
I think also she was the matriarch of our family. She was really like a commanding force head of the family. So there was a piece of it that was like, we got this, you know, you're good. You can go do you and still boss us around from the other side, but we're okay here.
00:55:26
Speaker
Thank you. Yeah, I didn't mean for you to maybe put into words how she felt, but just in case she had expressed, but what you said regarding just her own physical persona of her holding onto youth says so much about then why maybe that transition, you aiding her in that transition was something that was helpful.
00:55:49
Speaker
So thank you for sharing that piece. Now, as we come to a close in this conversation that we could keep going because I always, I never feel like it is enough for me. I always end up having more questions I want to keep asking because I'm just always so curious about this experience of grief and just how people
00:56:11
Speaker
just how people grief and what they do and the tools and you've been able to share two beautiful, different, unique stories of grief, both in your pregnancy and then also just of your grandmother and you were able to mesh them both. So thank you. It must be the songwriter in you that is able to kind of bring these two pieces together. So as we wrap up, would you like to share anything else with the listeners that I have not asked?
00:56:41
Speaker
I guess the only thing I would like to share is, you know, that grandmother when she, her husband passed away a couple of years prior and she had a really hard time with that. And she had a hard time processing her grief and all of that. And one of the things that I did with her was took her to a support grief group at a hospital where we, you know, I just felt like she was having a hard time talking about it and whatever.
00:57:09
Speaker
And that really set the space for me to then seek out a support group like that when I was in my grief with my illness. So I guess the only thing I would encourage people is that
00:57:24
Speaker
You know, as cheesy as it sounds, these grief support groups are life changing and they, it doesn't have to be something you commit to for your entire life, but it can be something that serves you greatly in a period of your, of your life in a moment.
00:57:40
Speaker
And there is no price on feeling understood and heard and that you aren't alone in your experience. And it's just really helpful to be with other people that are in it. So I would encourage people that are in it to go look up grief support group, literally Google it. They have them at hospitals and, um,
00:58:05
Speaker
And a lot of free grief support out there like that. And if you prefer one-on-one, then you can do also seek your therapist. Or if you prefer that, that is okay as well. So whatever you prefer. But yes, because you mentioned not only the support your daughters got through, or at least said you found out through our home, right? Our house. Our house.
00:58:29
Speaker
It is a home our house, our house, then the support with the her foundation and the groups that you even then did through your own illness, then the support that you found for your grandmother, then the support you yourself had of your therapist when you were ill and just being able to verbalize the support you got from your friend who has this intuitive
00:58:51
Speaker
capacity and kind of helped you then be able to do, it is so important to support, support, support, find it. It's out there. If your friends and family are not that for you, then go out there. Yeah. Go find your, go find your people. And sometimes it's better if it's someone that you don't know. Like I don't really know the people in those support groups anymore. That was nice. It was like an anonymous thing.
00:59:18
Speaker
Because then if by chance you need to talk about somebody in your own circle. Just talk about everyone and it was nice. Without feeling judged. That is great.
Connecting Through Music and Art
00:59:29
Speaker
Now, Asia, how are people able to not only listen to your music, but also find out more about you? I'll put that in the show notes, but if you want to say more about even yourself as an artist, people who work, can they
00:59:41
Speaker
hear you. You can find me on the interwebs. My name is spelled a little funny. It's a palindrome. So it's A-I-J-I-A. And you can type that into Instagram, Spotify, Apple Music, TikTok, all the things. And my Instagram handle is Asia official. Yeah. And I actually wrote a song called Recluse.
01:00:06
Speaker
which is about my journey out of my stark sad place. And it was sound in my head before we started recording as I told you. It's a really, it's really good one because it's also just letting that person that's beside you knowing like that it's not about them necessarily either. Yeah.
01:00:25
Speaker
I wrote that as I was coming out of my low place and trying to just explain it to everyone. It wasn't about you. I just like couldn't do anything for a while. So yeah, come find me. I always love to chat with people that are, you know, like-minded and in the same zone. And I hope the music connects with you.
01:00:49
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you for sharing. Thanks for having me again. I'm so grateful you were here, and grateful for Tati for telling you that she recorded with me, and now you're recording, so yay. Pass it on if you need anybody else to share the story. I will. So thank you for giving a big, big hug. And again, we had Asia on the podcast, and make sure to
01:01:11
Speaker
follow her and listen to her music. And if you're in the LA area, check out any of her live performances as well. And then you're probably you're going to go on tour as well. I'm going on tour. I don't know the dates yet, so it's not announced. But October 14th, I'm playing in October 14th, 2023. I'm playing in Los Angeles. So you can get that on my Instagram. Yeah, thank you. Asia. Big hug. Bye.
01:01:44
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
01:02:13
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.