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166. Navigating Miscarriage: Our Story of Hope and Heartbreak with Andrea Turnbow
99 Plays8 months ago
Andrea Turnbow Andrea Turnbow is the founder of The Grief Nook (formerly Autumn Winds Coaching) and is a Certified Grief Educator and Trauma and Resilience Life Coach. After experiencing a miscarriage during her first pregnancy, she set out to become the grief support provider that she and her husband needed at that difficult time. After the tragic loss of her grandfather and other life-altering losses over the years, she was guided further down the path of grief work to help normalize the grief process, and lessen the stigma around topics that are considered taboo. She guides anyone who has been impacted by pregnancy loss, loss of a loved one, or life-altering loss through their unique grief journeys.
@andreathegriefcoach: https://www.instagram.com/andreathegriefcoach/
@thegriefnook: https://www.instagram.com/thegriefnook/
Website: https://www.thegriefnook.com/
Email: [email protected]
Contact Kendra Rinaldi for coaching or to be a guest on the podcast:[email protected] https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/
Zencastr 30% off code https://zen.ai/54gDe-jaFwTSG8vlp8a3tw
Key Takeaways:
· Autumn’s Impact: The loss of Autumn, Andrea’s child, ignited her passion to validate others’ grief, particularly those experiencing early pregnancy loss.
· Turning Point: In 2022, Andrea faced her grandpa’s passing. This pivotal moment led her to reevaluate her career and embrace her calling to support others.
· Hospice Experience: Being with her grandpa during his final days in the hospital and hospice profoundly affected Andrea. It motivated her to advocate for those who lack a support system during grief.
· No Expectations: Grieving doesn’t follow a timeline. Andrea emphasizes that everyone processes loss differently, and there’s no rush to reach a specific point.
· Validation and Connection: Seeking validation and connecting with others are essential for healing.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Grief, Gratitude and the Gray in Between'
00:00:01
Speaker
Luckily for me, I did have a great support system in my parents and in my sisters and in my friends. But they can only do so much, right? And so when that support and when that help kind of starts falling away, you're like, well, now what? I'm still reeling. I'm still hurting. I'm still grieving.
00:00:23
Speaker
Now what do I do? And so there was, you know, that kind of, I guess, awkward kind of period of, of, I don't know if I should reach out. I don't know if I should share my story. I don't know if I should just keep quiet and move on with my life. Hello and welcome to Grief, Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast.
00:00:50
Speaker
This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:01:06
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys. I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
Podcast Recording Process
00:01:29
Speaker
I have been asked by many people what I use to record my podcast. I have been using Zencaster since I launched my podcast in March 2020 and it has made it so simple for me to be able to interview my guests remotely as well as do some of my solo episodes.
00:01:48
Speaker
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00:02:08
Speaker
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Andrea Turnbow's Journey Through Loss
00:02:45
Speaker
Today we have a special guest joining us. We have Andrea Turnbow, the founder of Autumn Wins Coaching. She is a certified grief educator and trauma and resilience life coach.
00:02:56
Speaker
Her own journey of grief began from experiencing the loss of her child during her first pregnancy. And then she was fueled to support others that were also going through things like this because she and her husband were craving that type of support when they went through that loss. She has also experienced other types of loss like the death of her grandfather. So we will be touching on
00:03:25
Speaker
those two losses primarily in our conversation and just everything that revolves around that. So welcome, Andrea. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me today. I am glad you are here. So let's start off. We started already with this before we started recording. We were talking about where we live and the pool that right now in this moment as we're recording, we're experiencing. But just fill us in on where you grew up and where do you reside now?
00:03:54
Speaker
Yeah, so I am an Arizona native born and raised. So yeah so I grew up in the Phoenix area, lived here, you know, total.
00:04:06
Speaker
desert, you got the desert in my blood, you know, I love the warmth. So yeah, we were just chit chatting about, it's cold, it's, you know, because the desert gets really cold. So, so now I'm still in the Phoenix area. And yeah, and it's just, it's so funny, because I, I've recently, you know, within the past few years really deepened my connection to the desert, because even though I am a desert girl, and I was raised in the desert,
00:04:33
Speaker
my heart and my soul is in like the trees and the forest and the green. And so, uh, you know, we don't, don't see that a whole lot. So I'm like, okay, well I got to really try and deepen my connection to the desert. So that's, that's what I've been doing also with, uh, my husband and my son as well. So taking my son out hiking and taking him on adventures and.
00:04:57
Speaker
just trying to connect more with nature that way, even though my soul is in the trees. Oh, but you have such great hikes. And I mean, I've gone to Sedona a few times. I've gone to Phoenix as well. But hiking in that area and so forth, there's still something magical about.
00:05:15
Speaker
Arizona too, even if it's not trees, you still have beautiful, beautiful scenery. So I don't have any mountains really where I live. So I'm like, I'm jealous of everybody that has some change of scenery. So thank you again
Experiencing Pregnancy Loss
00:05:31
Speaker
for joining us. So tell us now about your first experience that your pregnancy loss was your first experience with grief. Personally, that at least with death.
00:05:41
Speaker
Yes, at that level, at that magnitude, yes. Okay, so tell us, take us into your journey of pregnancy and then your discovery that the pregnancy was not viable.
00:05:57
Speaker
Yeah, so my husband and I, we knew, we were kind of the last of our friend group that decided to try to have a baby. And so I had known a few of our friends who had had miscarriages and their pregnancies ended in loss. And so
00:06:23
Speaker
It was one of those things like you hear about sometimes, you know, um, one of my friends was, she opened up to me about it much later after her miscarriage. And so, you know, I kind of heard about it here and there and, but still nothing really prepares you for that. So while we were, um, talking about starting a family and,
00:06:48
Speaker
and trying for a baby, we knew that it was a possibility, but of course you never really expect it to happen to you, right? So I found out, you know, just kind of getting through the holidays is a big thing for me because I learned, well, I should say I knew that I was pregnant. And so it was my first pregnancy on Christmas Eve
00:07:18
Speaker
Yeah. What year are we talking about? So this was 2014. Okay. So I knew that I was pregnant on Christmas Eve. And then a couple of days later, I confirmed it with a pregnancy test. And then we, you know, of course the elation and excitement kicks in and oh, we're going to be parents and you know, how are we going to share this with my parents? And we're coming up with all these plans. And then of course,
00:07:44
Speaker
We do the plan, we go to their house and show the pregnancy test and the card and we record the reactions and everything. So everything's great, everyone's happy and excited.
00:07:59
Speaker
And a couple weeks later, I started showing signs of miscarriage. I started bleeding. And though it's the complete opposite, you know, going from complete joy and elation within just a couple of weeks, just devastation.
00:08:15
Speaker
So, that is where my journey with grief at this magnitude started because throughout the process, you know, it's a long process. It's something that there's also this misconception of, oh, you know, it's just a heavy period or it'll be over in a day or whatever. That's not true.
00:08:41
Speaker
Yeah having I shared with you on the thing I have having had my first pregnancy also been a miscarriage or loss I know exactly what you're saying I stayed home I was like I was so fearful I'm like as I knew I was miss carrying I'm like I don't want to be out.
00:08:57
Speaker
in the world when it starts like fully happening. And thank goodness I did stay home because it was not like just a heavy. Right. Yeah. So, you know, it takes days for the actual, you know, process to happen. So over those course of those days, you know, we became very aware of
00:09:17
Speaker
how little is known, not just in society, but as well as like the medical professionals and the medical staff, how little training it seemed like they had to handle such a loss. So I think that's what really kick-started this journey for me. So it was nine years ago and it's taken a little while to come to fruition with me becoming a coach and a grief educator,
00:09:49
Speaker
But I think what really helped me is, you know, there was a lot to process at first. Luckily for me, I did have a great support system in my parents and in my sisters and in my friends. Um, you know, but they, they can only do so much. Right. And so when that support and when that help kind of fall, starts falling away, you're like, well, now what? Uh, you know, I'm still reeling. I'm still hurting. I'm still grieving.
00:10:16
Speaker
Now what do I do? And so there was, you know, that kind of, I guess, awkward kind of period of, of, I don't know if I should reach out. I don't know if I should share
Awareness and Dialogue on Miscarriage
00:10:28
Speaker
my story. I don't know if I should just
00:10:30
Speaker
keep quiet and move on with my life. And so what I decided was in October during pregnancy and infant loss awareness month, I kind of use that as my springboard to share my story. So I posted on Facebook, my story about why October means so much to me.
00:10:52
Speaker
And what resulted from that, I was not expecting. So many comments, but even more messages in my DMs from family, from friends saying, I had a miscarriage too. I went through this too, or I know someone who went through this too, or my sister or my friend, and I had no idea. I just, I had no, and then I learned that someone in my family
00:11:22
Speaker
or actually multiple women in my family had had miscarriages before that I had no idea. And I was like, oh my gosh, why don't we talk about this? Why am I just finding out about this now? So that was an eye opener for me. I think that was a huge eye opener for me personally in my journey, but also kind of that extra push of like, OK.
00:11:52
Speaker
This is part of breaking the taboo, right? Us sharing our individual stories and us kind of putting ourselves out there. It's a little bit scary, but being vulnerable and putting our stories out there and watching the stories come back. You know, that's when it really was solidified for me was, you know, this is the way to go. This is what I need to be doing.
00:12:19
Speaker
I can relate so much to what you said of the fact of not knowing how many people around you had experience lost during their pregnancy. The same thing happened to me. I worked with kids at that time. All these moms
00:12:35
Speaker
that I worked with, like, you know, saw me go through this, all these parents and majority were moms that were going, but how many shared after the fact that they also had? And I'm like, how come nobody told me that this was the case?
00:12:51
Speaker
But then I'm thinking, I wonder if, and tell me what you think about this, if maybe in society we tend not to talk about these things. It's kind of like you don't want to bring this bad juju or bad energy to someone, especially
00:13:08
Speaker
especially of course, if you're already pregnant, then you're not going to say, by the way, there is a chance that you might, you know what I mean? You're not going to have that conversation with someone that is pregnancy pregnant, right? So what do you think it is within our society that makes us not talk about this more? Do you think it's cultural? Do you think it's just that you keep things private? What have been some of the
00:13:36
Speaker
the things you've realized as you've had more conversations with people. That's something I hear over and over again and I've also experienced in my own life, I feel like so many of us in this grief space have experienced that where it just doesn't come up because people don't want to bum other people out. That's what it comes down to is
00:13:59
Speaker
Oh, you know, I don't want to be the Debbie Downer of the group, you know, talking about this. And there's a time and a place, right? So there's that as well. You know, if you're all gathered around for a birthday party or Thanksgiving or something, you know,
00:14:19
Speaker
It's, it's hard. It would be hard, especially in my, in my family parties where there's 20, 25 people and there's kids running around and there, you know, that might not be the time. So, so I get it. You know, there's a time and a place.
00:14:36
Speaker
But for it to never come up, you know, in one-on-one conversations or in a small group or, you know, when, you know, the answer in the corner chit chatting, you know, those opportunities is...
00:14:53
Speaker
I do feel like you hit the nail on the head is like people just don't want to bring up sad things. But I think it's because we don't know how to bring up these conversations.
00:15:10
Speaker
in a way that is that is not going to bump people out, you know, in a way that is honoring the people that we've lost, honoring the pregnancies that you've lost, honoring the the baby that you
00:15:27
Speaker
were growing and that you grew to love and and you lost you know and i and i feel like um there's also behind that as well is people haven't processed their own grief
00:15:45
Speaker
So they really don't know how to talk about it. They don't know how to bring it up in a way that's as part of them, as part of their lives, because they have been told to move on. They have been told to get over it and to get back to normal and just get back to your routine and just move forward in life. And so I think that's kind of behind a lot of it as well.
00:16:14
Speaker
especially from older generations and the older women in our family. That's what they had to live through. And I recently had a conversation with a woman who her miscarriage happened decades ago, like over 20 years ago. And she said, yeah, I just was told to move on. I was just told to be strong and I've never
00:16:42
Speaker
really fully processed it. And so I think that's we're dealing with a lot of that generational suppression of these feelings as well. And so I think those go, those two things go hand in hand.
00:16:58
Speaker
You said so many things there and so many questions popped in mine, those thoughts as you were talking. And yes, I feel that people do not know sometimes how to hold space for someone that's grieving.
00:17:13
Speaker
And that I think is what sometimes ends up being one of the reasons people don't bring up because it's like, what if I bring it up and she starts crying and I don't know what to do. And then, you know, and it's that discomfort of that that I feel makes it be that we don't talk about these things because we do not know how someone else might react as we are or respond as we are bringing these things up.
00:17:43
Speaker
And it's so sad because you're right. Then you feel like your loss is not validated by society, especially if when you didn't even know. And I don't know if it was the same for you. I think it would have been the same. You didn't even know the gender as well of your child was that early on. Same with mine. So then it's like you don't know how to even
00:18:07
Speaker
Say there was not a name yet not you know gender that you knew and so then you're trying to still keep the memory alive of this child yet People around you might not
00:18:20
Speaker
be wanting to even acknowledge that it even occurred. So it is very, very hard and isolating. So you and your husband were feeling that way. So you were craving for this type of community and support.
Finding Community Support
00:18:37
Speaker
Did you end up finding something during that time or was it you just lived it together on your own?
00:18:48
Speaker
I did end up finding my own little community kind of by accident. And, you know, it just made me realize like looking back, it was such a happy accident. So I was on a pregnancy app, like a baby app. And there happened to be someone started a thread.
00:19:08
Speaker
about miscarriage. Um, she had kind of just shared her story and said, you know, I'm going to have to get off this app, um, because this is what happened. And I, because I went on the app to delete it, I was like, okay, well, you know, and so I saw that and I went on the thread and there were all these other women in there that were chiming in saying, yeah, same here. Same with me. Me too.
00:19:36
Speaker
someone suggested in that thread to start a Facebook group of, of, um, you know, just with that, with that group of women. And I was like, yeah, sign me up. You know, I want to, I want to join. So someone created the group and they invited, uh, some of us. And so there was probably about 40, 50 of us in there. It wasn't, um, you know, it wasn't thousands and it wasn't a huge group.
00:20:01
Speaker
But that's what I loved is that we kind of just found each other by accident on this app, probably as we all were going to do the same thing, we're all going in there to delete it. And so that Facebook group, we were pretty active in there for about a year and a half. And so that just that was one thing that just accidentally happened that helped me so much. And it just shows how much
00:20:28
Speaker
community and finding other people who have gone through the same thing and finding other people who are going through that experience, you know, we were actively going through that experience together. And then we started talking about trying again and trying for rainbow babies. And then, you know, there were a couple people
00:20:47
Speaker
uh who got pregnant at the same time so following their journeys of their rainbow babies and then a couple of them did end up you know miscarrying again so helping them through that so it was just it was so um such a validating space but also is very healing at the same time to be able to witness
00:21:10
Speaker
their progress as well, and witnessed their journeys as well. And if they ever did experience loss again, helping them through that secondary loss. So yeah, so that was huge for me. It was something that just spontaneously happened and was so critical for my own healing. Because as loving and supportive as my support system was in my life, my husband,
00:21:41
Speaker
didn't he how can how can he fully understand you know and that and that's what I tell people too is when it comes to our partners we have to understand that it is impossible for them to know what we feel like.
00:21:57
Speaker
because they cannot carry and grow a child. So kind of from that perspective of grieving alongside with them, but also realizing and recognizing that their grief journey is unique to them. Yeah, it's different. So again, as great as my support system was, having that community of women, we're all in the same place.
00:22:23
Speaker
and creating that space for each other was just it was so huge.
00:22:29
Speaker
What would you say about the uniqueness of the grief experience yourself and your spouse?
Unique Grief Experiences and Lost Dreams
00:22:35
Speaker
It also goes into play. I mean, you here felt found a community that everybody was experiencing probably similarly because hence why they had joined the space. But there are women that probably don't experience the same amount of grief as their miscarrying sometimes do. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes they push it under.
00:22:57
Speaker
That aspect of comparison and grief is something that is very detrimental to our own process because we end up kind of measuring ourselves to somebody else's way of processing or grieving. And, you know, the part of the I was going to ask regarding your husband, because for me, it's the only time you can hear me, but you'll hear it. He's going to edit the podcast.
00:23:22
Speaker
I really, truly seen my husband cry as much as he did. The grief component, that was really his first major grief experience like that. I had had others prior, but that was, as a couple, one of the most heartbreaking experiences. So not necessarily to minimize what the spouse also feels. Of course, they didn't carry them.
00:23:48
Speaker
baby, but the spouse was also dreaming, had all these expectations and hopes and preparing. And when there's a loss of a dream and expectation, that is also grief. So there's so many things that come into play when you have the death of an unborn child because there's all these other things you had already completely
00:24:14
Speaker
planned, even if it was only two weeks that you knew or one week that you knew you were pregnant, you'd already made a whole plan about what your life was going to look like. Let's talk about guilt and anger in that process of grieving, especially when you're the one that has carried this child and how that feels and the feelings as a woman that some of us may have of our own
00:24:43
Speaker
capability and our ability to bring life again. Yeah, so I would say guilt for me and for a lot of people was the first and foremost emotion as I was sitting in the ER getting the confirmation. My first thought was
00:25:13
Speaker
What did I do wrong? And I know I'm not alone in that. And that's with all kinds of losses as well, all kinds of losses of a loved one. We tend to look inward first. What did I do? What didn't I do? What could I have done differently? What more could I have done? So yes, so for me and my personal journey, that was
00:25:44
Speaker
uh, number one was the guilt. So I, you know, I tell my clients, I tell people going through grief with, you know, guilt in their grief is
00:25:55
Speaker
It's completely valid. It's completely normal because it is also your brain is trying to make sense of this tragedy that just happened. So your brain is kind of working overtime saying like what you know trying to find a solution. You know the emotional side of us is like
00:26:14
Speaker
Can you not? You know, like, can you take a break, brain, please? But, you know, that's where our survival instincts start to kick in, is your brain is trying to go through everything. Okay, analyze everything. What happened? What could we have done differently? How do we make sure this doesn't happen next time? How do we make sure this doesn't happen to us or happen to us again next time? So first of all, I normalize that.
00:26:43
Speaker
for my clients and for people who come to me, that's a completely normal thing to do. Secondly,
00:26:52
Speaker
I really try and get to the root of where that guilt came from and what story is it attached to. What kind of story are we telling ourselves? Is it a story that someone is telling you? Because for me, I was six weeks. So I did hear.
00:27:15
Speaker
in from people in my life that it wasn't a big deal, you know, not saying it like in those terms not saying that it that directly to my face, but you know that's reading in between the lines that's what they were saying is
00:27:32
Speaker
You know, it was early. It's not really that big of a deal. And you're young. You can have more. It's as if like, right? It's this whole thing of like, Oh, just let's just move on. Like you said, rather than like actually validating that what you're going through is true. Okay. So that part. Exactly. So, so then you kind of hear those things and you start to tell yourself this story that it's true. You start to kind of believe it like, okay, well,
00:27:59
Speaker
this person is saying it and that person is saying that and well that this person thinks this way and then you start to develop these you know belief systems beliefs that well it must be true and so it's really breaking those things down in your guilt and your anger and saying okay
00:28:19
Speaker
What about this might be true and what about this might not be true? And really getting to the root of what do you believe? What do you yourself believe? And really sticking to that, it took me a long, I mean, honestly, it did take me a long time to, you know, come to the conclusion that yes, I lost my pregnancy at six weeks, but like you said,
00:28:45
Speaker
You, you, you already start to form a connection. You already start to have dreams. You and your husband start to think about, okay, where's the nursery going to go? And all the stuff that you can buy, you know, and, and so it took me a really long time because that is a story that I believe myself. That it, my grief wasn't as valid as someone else's, you know, like we talked about the comparison at the beginning.
00:29:10
Speaker
The comparison factor is such a huge root cause of the guilt as well. So you also have these societal norms. You have the people in your support system and their opinions and what they're saying. And then you just really have to look inward and say, what do I believe? What do I believe to be true? And that's not something that
00:29:35
Speaker
happens right away. And so that's also something that I really try to educate people on is don't feel like you have to reach that point right away. If your days or weeks or months or maybe even years out of your loss, there's
00:29:55
Speaker
There's no, you know, it's not like, there's no timeline for loss. There's no timeline. And there's also, there's also no, no rush to, to getting there. It's something that you have to process and it's something that you have to really sit with yourself. And sometimes it might come quicker for other people. Um, sometimes, you know,
00:30:16
Speaker
someone might be a month in and they'll be like, nope, this is what I believe. And this is, this is my story for others. Uh, you know, it might take a little bit longer. So I like to, I like to share that as well as there's no expectation that you have to get there immediately. But you know, we do need support and we do need each other. We do need connection. We do need that validation to be able to get to that point.
00:30:42
Speaker
Yes, no, you wrapped it perfectly, perfectly, the two components and how society does play a role in our feeling that way.
00:30:55
Speaker
Other question I have is how you mentioned about beliefs, like what do you believe and so forth and how that may have an impact also on your grief.
Spiritual Beliefs in Grief Processing
00:31:04
Speaker
Now, what were your beliefs, your spiritual beliefs per se that might have also been part of your toolkit in your processing your grief of the death of your child. And if you also want to incorporate into that, because I know the death of your grandfather was really where
00:31:23
Speaker
this now journey of you coaching kind of started. Is that correct? So let's weave into those two things, your own spiritual beliefs and then we'll navigate into talking about your grandfather. Yes. So, you know, first off, I'm not, I'm not religious, but I am, you know, I am spiritual. I do believe that.
00:31:47
Speaker
There is the spirit world in that we are still all connected. I believe I received signs still. I believe that our loved ones are with us and they will always be with us. For my pregnancy loss, like you mentioned earlier, I didn't know the sex, but I knew, I felt in my soul that it was a girl. As soon as I learned that I was pregnant,
00:32:16
Speaker
I just, I just had this, it's a girl. So I named her Autumn. And, and again, you know, that's part of my journey. And I, and I, I tell this to other people, you know, there's this pressure of like, Oh, you have to come up with a name, you have to do this, you have to do that.
00:32:33
Speaker
I like to share my stories. I did come up with a name for her and there was a lot of processing with that of me believing that she was a girl. There was a lot of shame around that and a lot of stories I was telling myself of like, well, you don't know that for sure. You didn't take a test. You didn't get any tests to confirm it.
00:32:58
Speaker
How could you do that? How could you say that? I was telling myself, well, who do you think you are? And it's just one of those things. You are the mom. You are the one that carried her in your womb. And therefore, you had this energy feeling. You are someone who want to think that. Right. Right. Yeah. I signed up to that belief. Right. Yeah. So I was like, you know what? This is the information that I have.
00:33:27
Speaker
The information, you know, from a spiritual perspective is that I felt that she was a girl and I'm going to go with that. And I don't care what anyone else says or thinks. But again, that didn't come quickly. I had to really sit with those emotions and process those emotions and be and get to the point where it's it's OK to to to honor what I felt and move forward in that energy. So I did actually
00:33:57
Speaker
name her what I believe I would have named her if she were born living and it and it honestly it didn't sit right with me for a long time and I just I never understood I just kept getting this like message of like that's not her name that's not her name
00:34:19
Speaker
And I'm like, well, you know, well universe, what, what do you want me to do with this information? Like that's what I named her. I just, I, but I just kind of felt this, you know, that's not her name. That's not her name. It didn't really sit well with me. Um, so it actually was four years later when I was on, you know, speaking of hiking with my son, we were actually in Washington hiking through this, this.
00:34:46
Speaker
just magical landscape of a beautiful hike. And it was like misty and it was just the beginning of autumn. It was in September and the leaves were just starting to change. And it was on that hike that something happened is probably a story for another time. But on that hike is, I was like, oh my gosh, her name is Autumn.
00:35:14
Speaker
I get it now. That's how that's what it is. And it just clicked and it just every like my soul lit up. Everything just fell into place. And I just felt like, you know, she was there with me. I mean, I feel like she was the one that was like, like, Mom, this is my name. You know, like, can you finally get it now? And so so I like to tell that story because that was four years later.
00:35:42
Speaker
when I came up, when I, when I finally like heard, you know, what her name was. And so, you know, everyone's grief journey is unique. Everyone's spiritual journey is unique. I know from, you know, cause your original question was a spiritual perspective. A lot of people have, you know, a lot of questions that come up from a spiritual or religious perspective. And I totally honor that as well, because how could you not?
00:36:12
Speaker
Right when you experience a loss such as that how
00:36:17
Speaker
How can you not just question everything that you were taught? How can you not question everything that you thought you had known up to this point? So yeah, so I validate those things. Autumn and her message didn't come to me for years later and I offer that and I'm not ashamed of that. So I just share that to be like, if any of your listeners or any of the grievers out there feel like
00:36:44
Speaker
they should be at a particular moment or a particular time or space or place in their grief or they should have XYZ figured out by now. I'm here to tell you that's not, no, that's not true.
00:36:57
Speaker
Are there times where you might be getting stuck and you need to process through things? Yes, definitely. Are there things where maybe you've been stuck at a point for a little too long that you feel like you can't move past? Yes, and that's where I say, that's where you reach out for support. That's where you reach out and try to get help to move. Or you feel like, okay,
00:37:24
Speaker
I feel like I'm ready for this next step, but I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I don't know how to get there. That's where you reach out. Kind of knowing your limitations, knowing your boundaries, knowing when things might be going on for a little bit too long, or you're ready for that next leap, you're ready for that next step.
00:37:43
Speaker
So that's kind of where I like to differentiate. So, and you brought up my grandpa and I bring up my grandpa as well because autumn, you know, the loss of autumn really moved me into my passion to validate people's grief in pregnancy loss, especially early pregnancy loss.
Career in Grief Coaching
00:38:04
Speaker
But I was at a point in my life, so this was 2022 when my grandpa died. And I was at this point in my life where I was ready to make a move in my career, you know, ready to go back to work because I became, during the pandemic, I became a stay at home mom. So I was like, okay, ready to go back to work, ready to get back out there. And I was at that point in my life where I was like, well, I really have this,
00:38:32
Speaker
this pull to help people and be that support system for people.
00:38:41
Speaker
What really, really did it for me is being there with my grandpa during his final hours, his final days in the hospital and then in hospice. That was the first time I've ever experienced something like that. That was the first time that I have ever been there. Like ushered someone in that, like ushering kind of the person as they're in that process
00:39:10
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. That was the first time I've been so close to that experience. So yeah, there were a lot of eye-opening moments in that as well, a lot of really touching, as well as heartbreaking moments through that whole process and the aftermath. And I feel like a lot of the feelings and a lot of the emotions, as well as a lot of the things that I experienced
00:39:39
Speaker
in hospice really motivated me, like really just moved me down even further down this path of going through that grieving process myself, but knowing that so many people go through this process without having that support system, going through this process, keeping it to themselves, not knowing where to turn. So yeah, that experience with my grandpa really motivated me to go down this path and
00:40:08
Speaker
You know, here I am and never look back. So how, so after his passing then, okay, you completely solidified your belief that this was your new role in life to be able to help people in this, their grieving journey and their grief journey. And then you created then Ottomwinds coaching.
00:40:28
Speaker
And so your expertise and or where you accompany people in their grief are primarily early pregnancy loss or any type of loss.
Expanding Coaching Services
00:40:40
Speaker
Any type. So my my passion is pregnancy loss just because it's that's what I experienced and it is
00:40:47
Speaker
And it's a taboo topic that I want to shed more light on and shed more education, as well as to be there to be a support system for those people who are going through it because as much progress as we've made, there's still so much more to be made in that area. There's so much more to be.
00:41:07
Speaker
So much more awareness to be brought to the fact that this is valid. This is valid grief So that is where my passion is but I do help people in all types of grief I I've helped people most recently with a loss of a friend loss of a child a loss of a parent a Loss of you know both parents so I I really I really
00:41:35
Speaker
enjoy helping people process what they're feeling in all types of loss, in all types of grief.
00:41:46
Speaker
Yeah, you and I have that in common as well, like I'm also a grief coach. And so being that sounding board for someone else, because the reality is we're not there to fix what they're feeling. We're not there to fix what they're feeling. We're there to validate and to be there to listen and to hold space for them. Because sometimes, as we were mentioning earlier on in this conversation, society doesn't do that.
00:42:10
Speaker
So that accompaniment of someone that's in that space is necessary. So take us into that journey for yourself. Like how, how do you feel, for example, I'm just, I, this is me being, after you've accompanied someone through their journey.
00:42:30
Speaker
What are the emotions within you? I know that this sounds like, you know, sometimes people think that this is such heavy work. Yes. But what are those emotions within you? Oh, yeah. I love that question because yes, I do get that like, oh, this is, you know,
00:42:51
Speaker
It's such a hard profession. And, you know, you just talk about death all the time. And I get that perspective. I do. I really do. But I have tried really hard to come to it from a place of where I am in my process of
00:43:16
Speaker
Where I know not everyone is in this place, so don't get me wrong that I think everyone should be. But where I am in my grief process is coming from a place of joy, of knowing them, a joy of loving them, and a joy of continuing to honor them.
00:43:41
Speaker
and honoring their lives and continuing living with that going forward. So I come from that place. So after I get off the call, or sometimes during the call, they'll say, no one has understood my grief the way you have. No one has validated my feelings the way you have.
00:44:06
Speaker
or I'll get emails later after the call and say, I can't tell you how much our call yesterday has, has helped me even just like immediately afterwards. So for me, after I get off those calls and I, after I have those conversations, it's not sadness at all. It's not depressing at all. You know, even though that's what it sounds like, you're like, Oh, well you're a grief and trauma coach. That must be difficult. Um,
00:44:36
Speaker
From where I am at this point in my life, it's really not. It's really not because when I get that feedback from people, I get messages, DMs on Instagram all the time saying something that you posted really helped me or a story that you posted really resonated with me today. That's why I do it. To me, it's like people don't see that part as often. They don't see those messages coming in. They don't see those emails coming in.
00:45:04
Speaker
But I do and it honestly just brings me so much joy knowing that, you know, if there's just at least one person out there that my stuff is resonating with, I, you know, that makes my day.
00:45:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's a validation. It's validating. It's validating that the course of life that you chose to do is the right way. So therefore, that's the part of also joy and the honoring, the honoring as well of the hardship that you went through and that you experience and the grief that you still keep on living with right of as well.
00:45:44
Speaker
But still moving forward with that to still be able to help someone else that really has no one else that is holding space for them. It's just such a beautiful role of being able to witness and hold space for someone else. And for those listening too, like you may be that even without being a grief coach, you may be that for a friend, you may be that for a loved one.
00:46:09
Speaker
Be there, hold space as they are expressing how much they miss their loved one and what they're going through. All of us have that possibility. And when we do that and we're really present with that, it just, it does bring a lot of joy because you do feel like you're making some kind of a difference.
00:46:31
Speaker
Exactly. Yes. So now tell our listeners if there's anything else first off that I did not ask that you want to share. I told you I'd say this at the end. And then we'll also tell them how to be able to get a hold of you of vape like to find out more about you or coach with you.
How to Access Andrea's Coaching
00:46:50
Speaker
Yeah, so one of the things that comes up time and time again is we talked a lot about guilt and we talked a little bit about anger. So one thing that I really want to put out there is that those feelings are valid and they are normal, and it is a completely normal biological function, but you do need to process them.
00:47:17
Speaker
it's it those are the types of emotions they're so heavy and they are so um you know they can be really debilitating in your life and so you know really sitting with them analyzing them getting to the bottom of them and and processing those emotions that that is really what
00:47:39
Speaker
a big part of what I do and a big part of why I do, because a lot of times we're told like, oh, guilt and shame and anger and rage, you know, these are all bad and negative emotions. No, they're necessary. They are necessary for us to move forward, but we have to move forward with them. We have to be able to process them. That's where I like to come in and really help people along that particular part of the journey as well.
00:48:09
Speaker
Perfect. Thank you. Now, how do people get ahold of you, Andrea? How can people reach out? What are the different services you offer? Yeah. So right now it is one-on-one. This year I have a lot of ideas though. I'm in progress of facilitating some groups. I would like to get some, you know, workshops going as well as some in-person
00:48:33
Speaker
grief workshops as well, so I have a lot being cooked up for this year so but right now, it is one on one coaching, so you can find me at autumn wins coaching calm.
00:48:44
Speaker
My email is info at autumn wins coaching calm, and you can also find me on Instagram. I'm on there, more than any other platform but I'm also on Facebook as well. And yeah, just email me reach out, find me on Instagram message me. Anyway you can reach me I'd be happy to hear from you. How my process usually works is I have a free.
00:49:08
Speaker
basically a free discovery call and just learn more about your story, learn more about what kind of support you're looking for, and then we go from there.
00:49:21
Speaker
Thank you, Andrea. It's been a joy talking to you. There's people that have not pressed play on any of these podcast episodes, probably people that I even know, for fear of what the conversation might bring up in them, but they don't realize that sometimes of
00:49:39
Speaker
how joyful I feel that they're joyful. I really do. They're hopeful. These kind of conversations are needed and they're not always ones to make you want to sit down and cry after. Right? It's just kind of a catalyst to a part of all these other emotions. Like you said, yes, we can still carry anger. You don't have to kind of put them in a little box. They can all be felt and it's okay.
00:50:07
Speaker
And it's not always so scary to talk about this stuff. It isn't, at least it isn't for us. Thank you. Thank you again. It's been a joy. Thank you so much.
Episode Conclusion
00:50:24
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:50:53
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.