Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
173. Transforming Grief Through Words and Song with Gabriela Georges
73 Plays4 months ago
Gabriela Georges is a multi-disciplinary artist, creative grief guide and founder of The Grief Cocoon. Her work is inspired by her beloved mother, Samira, who she lost to cancer at the age of twenty. She supports people to creatively process, befriend, and transform their grief through creative writing, movement, rituals, and community connection. Through The Grief Cocoon, Gabriela offers creative online workshops, a podcast, educational online content, a mobile community app, and 1:1 support.
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thegriefcocoon/
- https://www.instagram.com/gab_georges/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thegriefcocoon
TikTok - https://tiktok.com/@thegriefcocoon
Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@thegriefcocoon
Contact Kendra Rinaldi for coaching or to be a guest on the podcast
Recommended
Transcript
The Universality of Grief
00:00:01
Speaker
So it was just really profound, that level of connection, because I had never experienced that, because grief was so isolating and so hidden. It's so hidden from like the public. you know You don't kind of go out and go, I'm grieving. It doesn't really happen, but it was when it kept happening after I shared, I'd perform and then I'd get people telling me their personal stories. I thought, wow, this this there is something in this.
Introduction to Grief Exploration Podcast
00:00:34
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast. This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:00:57
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys. I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
Gabriela Georges: A Journey Through Grief
00:01:17
Speaker
Today, I am chatting with Gabriela Georges. She is a writer, a musician, and a grief guide, as well as the founder of The Grief Cocoon. Today, we'll be talking about her own grief journey after the passing of her mother and how it is that she evolved to now help other people in their own grief experience. Welcome, Gabriela. Gabriela. Thank you, Kendra. we We had technical difficulties logging on, yet we persevered and we did it, we waited. And sometimes in life it takes that. It takes a little time and patience and things all of a sudden just flow. And you as a writer and as a musician, that probably happens with like writer's block and things like that, yes? and
Overcoming Creative Blocks
00:02:10
Speaker
Yeah, it's all about the process and having a bit of patience.
00:02:16
Speaker
And then what are he know that and continue to what are some of those things that as a writer that you're all of a sudden like that can help you unblock? Is there something that just works for you that every time you do XYZ, all of a sudden things just start flowing? Well, actually, I think just. being okay with, you know, not coming up with the best, your best work, you know, as soon as you start writing or creating something. So I think I've now become less judgmental of myself and and just sort of just go with the flow and see what comes out. Sometimes it might be good, sometimes it isn't and that's all part of the process. So I don't really face writer's block I think as much now because
00:03:03
Speaker
It's just kind of, I'm not aiming for perfectionism, you know. I think that writer's block happens when you really want it to be amazing from the very beginning and it doesn't really often work that way. So I think just um just getting words down on a page and then from there, you know, the more you get into the flow, things will hopefully get a little bit better. And then that they might go in a different direction and that's fine too. So I think just...
00:03:35
Speaker
letting it be maybe a bit crap for a while until you get to the good stuff. That's so good. It's like just letting it yeah flow and then afterwards, then you can observe and look at it. And sometimes when you're removed from a situation, then you can see it without as much judgment too, right? Yes, I was going to say, yeah, taking a break from what you're doing as well can help. You know, like if you if you are sort of getting to a point where it's a bit of a sticking point, just go and make some tea or go for a walk or do something else and then come back to it and you might see it in a different way.
00:04:12
Speaker
Well, thank you for starting and be with with this part as I'm just like improvising, because that's what this conversation is about, is just kind of going with the flow. As I say, I don't send any questions beforehand, so we just kind of see where it takes us. and So thanks for going along with that with us here and sharing a little more about as your writing process.
Growing Up in a Multicultural Family
00:04:32
Speaker
Now, tell us about you. we People are hearing the accent, and we did have to schedule, do some time. Like, by the way, talk about commitment. people. Gabriela was willing to wake up. She booked this podcast at a time in which it was 3 a.m. for her Australia time. It's true. And then as I was sending the RSVP, I was like, wait a minute. I guess it's like 11 a.m. for me, but 3 a.m. ah for her. I'm like, Gabriela, I'm okay with recording in the evening if you would refer
00:05:12
Speaker
ah Yeah, it's a little bit too ambitious there, but I would have made it work. I love it. Okay, so you're in Australia. Tell us about your upbringing and more about you. Ah, well, I would say I'm maybe one of the defining things is I'm the youngest of four sisters. And I come from a Middle Eastern family. I was born in Australia in Melbourne. my parents were migrants, they came over in the mid-70s. And so i I guess I'm kind of a, what they call like a, is it a third culture kid or a part of the diaspora? And I always sort of navigate the, you know, multiple, call more than one culture because I grew up with my family, sort of with the Middle Eastern values and and really, really tightening
Coping with Loss: Gabriela's Story
00:06:02
Speaker
family. And then I grew up in Western society, which is,
00:06:05
Speaker
has different priorities and different different values and and so I had to sort of navigate that and along the way yeah so I had my mum and dad here and um I was really close with my mum I was the youngest of four and my sisters were a lot older than me they moved out and so it was just me mainly with my mum and dad at home and that's sort of my my my background as a as a young young person. And i I spent a lot of time alone. So that's why I got into writing and playing guitar and singing, all of those things I could do by myself, basically. So that's why I am a big creative. I love just even drawing. i'm That really has some
00:06:53
Speaker
helped give me confidence as well performing at school and all of those things. And yeah, but how I ended up coming to doing grief work is through the the loss of my mom when I was 20, the unexpected loss. So um she'd been pretty healthy. She was very health conscious, actually. She was very active. She was working with my dad full time. They used to run businesses, like stores that I used to help out at. And yeah, she just was feeling unwell and she she got diagnosed with a very rare form of cancer. And it was quite hard to to find through like the different things that the doctors did. And so by the time they found that it was called duodenal cancer. It's like in between, I think it's in the small intestine or something. But um yeah, she was already kind of in the later stages of
00:07:50
Speaker
of cancer when they actually but finally found it. And so, yeah, it was ah was only I was over the span of three to four months that she just got more and more unwell. Yeah, just slowly deteriorated and Yeah, I was 20 at the time and it was like a few months before my 21st birthday. That was, I guess we'd never in my family experienced a significant loss like that. You know, we, we just, um, I just didn't even think it was a possibility. I think I was quite sheltered and I thought, you know, I had a pretty good, and I thought, mom, um you know, mom's invincible. Like she'll, she'll be fine. She'll get through it and she's strong and she's, she can do anything. And.
00:08:37
Speaker
you know, yeah, just at that point realize like, oh, she's also just a human as well. And she's not invincible. And so yeah, that was, and and you know, like, I think people in Australia, like you can, 18 is a big kind of birthday, but then the 21st, you know, is is like the next big thing and people usually look forward to it, but I definitely didn't. I was just crying at every, crying the whole time. It was, yeah, a pretty emotional year and well, the the next few years were quite like just hard and I was a bit lost and a bit down and I just didn't know how to deal with it because I had no skills and no coping mechanisms. Yeah, you're 20. You're 20. You're the baby of the house. You were you weren you were in college at that time?
00:09:31
Speaker
i call it college university. How do you call it after high school? University. Yeah. University. Were you at the ed university at that time? Was it in Melbourne as well? Or was it outside of Melbourne? It was in Melbourne. And I was studying, I think I was in my, yeah, I was studying psychology. um I was about to graduate. And so Yeah, that was my. So your focus was very different to your here. You're at school. Your mom passes. You're still having to jump back into going to school. exam You. Yeah. And you're 21. You've never experienced this before. you Probably. did Yeah. Like what do I do? So do you feel you. You escaped a little bit from the emotions at some point and did just focused on school.
Healing Through Creativity and Community
00:10:21
Speaker
Is that what you did?
00:10:25
Speaker
I actually, I just, I think I really became numb to the the whole thing. You know, I didn't really process it at all. I just sort of was still going through life and doing what I needed to do but I wasn't really kind of engaging much with with my emotions or or with what was around me, it was sort of, I was in a bit of a bubble. And so I still went to work and and studied and everything, but it was kind of like I was just not really there, I would say. Yeah. Going through the motions, you were kind of just going through the motions, not really. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
00:11:07
Speaker
At what point then, yeah, did you start, cause you're studying, you were studying psychology right at that moment, then which is interesting. and yeah yep Tell me, tell me that process of what, what point did you, and how many years later or time later did you realize, wait, there's something I have yet not tapped in my emotions? Well, I, I thought, you know, I ah was a singer. Well, I'm still a singer, but I used to use singing and writing as ah as just a form of expression. And I stopped singing for a while, but I kept on writing and I thought I had stopped. But looking back on my diaries years later, I realized I was writing during the time she was unwell. I was writing soon after, you know, um it she actually took her last breath. And so I was still
00:12:05
Speaker
expressing myself but in a very like primitive form because I couldn't quite make sense of what was going on and I couldn't express articulate myself very well but I still put words down on the page and it wasn't until maybe three or four years later that I actually started putting my experiences and emotions into poetry form. I think before that it was just like a just basically very raw kind of like I miss my mom or you know I couldn't really write much more than the very like a like a child writing basically because it was just so raw and what I was going through was so foreign to me but after about yeah four years I started to realize like oh I so i wrote a couple of like a few songs and poems and I thought I think I'm ready to actually share this with someone
00:13:01
Speaker
And so that's when I started going out and actually yeah reading but reading my poetry out and and performing my songs. And I started connecting with people through that and realized, oh, I'm not the only one that is going through this or that has gone through this. There's other people that are that have lost loved ones that are grieving. They can relate to what I'm sharing. And that was sort of, it clicked for me then. I thought, oh, This is really interesting. I thought I was just talking about my experience, but actually this is not, you know, I'm not the only one. And so that's when I started to really lean into that and continuing to connect with people through my own work and then eventually through events and through workshops.
00:13:51
Speaker
The arts are something that are, so they're so powerful. They're such powerful tools because they connect at most, let me just, most or more, most art expressions or most end up connecting a lot of times with just our soul and with because, and you're right. Like when you hear something, you feel at times as if it's been written. for you or or when you or I've heard ah recently you know when I watch American Idol and they're like they tell their story and then they start singing a song let's say by Adele and i or whoever and they sing it and because they've just shared their story it feels as if it's an original song that they've just wrote because it sounds exactly with what the story it is that they had just shared and it just relates so much.
00:14:40
Speaker
So when you started then writing out your songs or your poems and then connecting and realizing that you ah you were really sharing the emotions of others, what what was that like, oh, aha moment, where was it? That you're like, how can I turn this into something else? Yeah, it was just when it kept happening every time I shared my work and because I thought, you know, maybe.
00:15:15
Speaker
one time like the first time I thought oh yeah cool you know one or two people you know had some story you know they they started actually what what ended up happening what used to happen was like I would share my work and then they would come up to me but not only just sort of tell me that they related to what I was saying but then they would start telling me their story just just total strangers and I thought wow like I don't even know the name of this person and they're telling me about recently you know they'd lost their grandparent or their grandma or that they have been going through the same thing and and they're grieving. And so it was just really profound that level of connection because I had never experienced that because grief was so isolating and so hidden. It's so hidden from like
00:16:02
Speaker
public you know you don't kind of go out and go I'm grieving you know like that doesn't really happen but it was when it kept happening after I shared I'd perform and then I'd get people telling me their personal stories I thought wow this this there is something in this and maybe I can find a way to bring these bring us together you know bring all of us who are grieving and who've lost loved ones who are struggling like we can come together and actually talk and and have open conversations and share out if they do, they write their own poetry or songs. It started off as like a bit of an open platform for people who express their grief through creativity. So that's how it started. But I was just, you know, I needed to kind of have it happen a few times where people would just start telling me their personal stories. And I felt so honored to be
00:17:00
Speaker
to hear them, but it was also a shock that, oh my goodness, like it feels like this person feels like they actually, just because I shared my story, suddenly they they're given permission to share their story. So it was a pretty profound connection with strangers that I'd never met. And so these started like where they open mics, I could coffee shops at what kind, what kind of venues did you use first off to start having these, or did you rent a space and then create a meetup? Like how did people hear about the grief cocoon and start attending?
Creating Grief Cocoon: A Supportive Space
00:17:35
Speaker
Yeah, I started in my local, close to home, like my local area. I used to rent out these rehearsal spaces actually that
00:17:44
Speaker
were quite used to be used, well, they'd be used for band rehearsals, but they're quite like a carpeted, nice, empty space. And I would i would bring in like my mom's scarves. I'd bring in sort of things to decorate the space, candles or photos or different things. And I would kind of curate the space and play music and then have like afternoon tea. it it Normally it started on like a Sunday afternoon, basically. And so it would it would be like a, yeah afternoon tea type of time like at 3pm or something but it would start with people were sharing their work we'd have a break and then have a chat have some cake have some tea and then come back in and continue and and hear i'd listen to other people share their their stories and their work and
00:18:35
Speaker
their experiences and so it it was but pretty basic like but it was more I would bring in my mom's scarves and i a friend of mine would help me set it up and decorate it and so it was sort of I definitely brought my mom in with me, you know, to every event. And I would tell people like, you know, these scarves in the room, like hanging from the ceiling, these are my moms. So yeah, it was more just like a quiet space that we would have some sunlight coming in and I was able to sort of make it what I wanted it to be for people. Yeah. And how did they find out about it? Like, how did you advertise?
00:19:18
Speaker
Ah, I just created flyers. I took them to like local community centers. I shared it online through social media. through word of mouth, through um email, just saw the usual kind of ways that people find out. Because this was 2014 approximately that you started. Yeah, 2014, 15, 16. Yeah, around that time. So you basically, yeah, you created what you wanted
00:19:50
Speaker
to see and what you would have needed even four years prior, but you didn't see. ah You didn't even know that there could be something like that. So you created what you were looking for and you created a community which was need you know need something you needed in your grief. Okay, so what has the grief cocoon evolved to now? Now it's 10 years later, what is it now? So now it's it's still a community. It's still community-based, but it's there's um workshops, creative workshops. So it's not just, you know, ah I still occasionally run open mics, but it's, it's I realized that, you know, there might be people that want to try and express their grief creatively, but they might not already have the tools to do that. So I wanted to sort of start working with people around like,
00:20:46
Speaker
okay, if you're you're interested in writing, or you're interested in sound, or we even did like animation, an animation workshop one time, which was really cool. But so it was more about sharing tools and helping people who maybe had never really didn't see themselves as creatives, but they wanted to find different ways to express their grief and to connect with others. So it became workshops, creative workshops, we have a podcast, It's a a lot of social media content and and education. And also we have an app where people can actually, it's a space where, you know, their grief is welcome. They can find resources in education. They can connect with others who have experienced similar losses. And so, you know, and I'm still building, there's always more that I want to kind of create more resources and
00:21:42
Speaker
And, you know, there's a lot more online support now, whereas before it was very, and there is value as well in in local face-to-face, you know, kind of contact, but also I realized like, grief is is a universal experience, you know, like there's people all over the world that are struggling with grief and that want support. and so It doesn't have to be, you know, Melbourne based or Australia based, but it could be for people all over. so this is wonderful So, yeah. So now everybody can have access to the grief cocoon in some shape or form. Yeah. yes So, so
The Impact of Grief on Creativity
00:22:23
Speaker
beautiful. Now, have you, or what have you noticed in terms of creativity, when you've experienced grief, how
00:22:34
Speaker
Did grief shift or change the way that you create? Oh, how did grief shift the way I create? Like you were 20. So would you remember basically, I know you're yeah you were young too, but you know i I know that a lot of love songs were are either heartbreak, or you know all which is grief. Heartbreak is grief, right? A lot of these songs are of heartbreak and that they just come out right as a way of of expressing. Do you feel that grief
00:23:12
Speaker
opens up like a portal to some extent of these other things that come up. That's my question. That's my really redundant question. Well, actually, I would say grief opened me up. And so the work that I then created from that point on was very personal and very real and and very honest you know because I just I guess probably didn't have the energy to make stuff up because I had so much I needed to express just because of like what I was experiencing that that the creativity the work that came out was just a lot more authentic and it was just more more real I would say so so then that could connect
00:24:10
Speaker
more directly connect with others, I think, because they could hear the honesty and why in my work. And so I've realised over the years, like one of the things and i that tends to happen when I share my poems or my songs is that people cry.
00:24:28
Speaker
And, you know, I used to think, oh, my gosh, oh, no, I'm making people cry. But I realized that, oh, it's because, you know, something is touching them, like in my in my work, and maybe, yeah, it's brought something up for them. And it's crying is a good thing. It's a release, like they're they're able to, I guess, have an emotional release when they when they hear my words or when they hear my music. So it it actually made me create deeper work. It made me get deeper with what I create. So it's not just, you know, made up mushy love songs or, ah which, you know, there's room for that too. But it was it wasn't as superficial anymore when compared to, yeah, when I was younger.
00:25:17
Speaker
i I'd been writing since I was like 10 or 12 so and you know I had no life experience it was just very corny and very mushy and so yeah now after like having experienced experiencing a significant loss you know the work that I created was a lot more oh yeah just a lot more personal and and real and I think I'd never really gotten that deep with my work. So I think grief was the avenue for that. Like it was the outlet for full a deeper expression of myself and and my emotions. and And so it was more deeply, I guess, deeply deeply human that people, more people could connect with it because I was talking about grief and I was talking about my mom and I was talking about things that
00:26:13
Speaker
a lot of people do experience even though they might <unk> have lost someone different or they might experience heartbreak or a different kind of loss but the grief itself and the pain and the it wasn't just the pain it was like honoring you know like honoring my mom and honoring the relationships like different yeah yeah i've written about different kinds of losses but yeah i think i would say that it just opened up the avenue for me to create a lot more work that was more deep and and more authentic. Yeah, like I have this perception, at least of having experienced grief myself, of things becoming like my senses becoming more intense and like in the intensifying of my senses. And so that's why I was wondering, like, if in the creative component, if that also
00:27:09
Speaker
had been something that you had noticed in in that.
Transformation and Meaning in Grief
00:27:13
Speaker
the The journey then that you've taken, you've taken then a journey in life, journey in grief has led you now to also then be a grief ah guide as well for others. Talk about that part. And as we're talking now here in the data that we're recording, you mentioned you're also traveling something and doing something completely out of your comfort zone. You're kind of just something that you feel would have not occurred had you not experienced grief. So share about those two things, your experience as a grief guide and now this journey that you're on.
00:27:50
Speaker
yeah Yeah. So I realized, I guess at some point after I, after some time of working with people and starting to host events. And I think I realized, Oh, people, a lot of people need support and, and I may have something to offer. And because I, for a, compared to maybe others, I might've had more years of dealing with grief because I dealt with, I lost my mom when I was 20. And so I thought, Yeah, I think i this this seems to be a natural thing that I do, just being comfortable with talking about grief, being open to people sharing their their losses with me and and their experiences and me being able to hold that space like for them and to to be able to sit with them in that in that grief and and to maybe hold some hope as well for people and and
00:28:48
Speaker
to share any insights that I've learned as well. So I think grief grief guidance is is sort of just so saying that, you know, I kind of, I don't, I'm not in your shoes, but I've been in my shoes and I've dealt with my own sort of grief enough and I'm still going on that journey and I might, you know, be able to support you along the way. And so it's it's kind of being a companion to other people and and to, yeah just be able to sit with them and to to share or to show them possibilities basically for how they might how they can live with the grief live alongside it and how it can I guess even kind of be part of their life in a way that's not always ah just about the pain and and the loss but also about the transformation and
00:29:45
Speaker
the the the changes that happen you know and and the focus on like what matters in life and and you're able to sort of let go of a lot of things that you thought were important because grief as I was talking to someone this morning like grief kind of really strips away all the stuff that you thought was worth worrying about and you realize like oh there's there's not actually a lot in life that is really really important. That is yeah puts things into perspective. Yeah, yeah, really that puts life and perspective. Yeah, it puts things into perspective. And so through my journey with grief, I've really, I think, come to appreciate life more, basically. And, and so this year, I decided to, well, I decided last year, but it's happening this year, I've decided to travel to road trip up the east coast of Australia on my own. And
00:30:44
Speaker
to just explore new places, to to go to warmer places than Melbourne. It's not the best, it doesn't have the best weather. And so I realized like, oh, I'm doing this because, yeah I mean, it's gonna be fun, but also because I realized life is not forever. And you know I could wait for the perfect time, but you just, it never happens. And so I thought, well, why can't I just do it now? And i I don't want to die with regrets. And I think that's one thing you realize, like, a lot of, you know, the research says that there are these top five regrets that people, that people who are dying, you know, talk about. And a lot of it in some of it is about not living the life that's authentic to them. And so I thought, well, I don't want to be that person. I want to actually
00:31:39
Speaker
live life now as as much as I can. And so that if anything does happen, if I don't get the chance to grow old, at least I'll be content with what I've done now. And so, um so yeah, I just thought this is the year I'm going to travel and explore places and just so give myself that, make that dream come true because I don't know what will happen next year, the year after.
Living with Intention After Loss
00:32:08
Speaker
And so I'm still working along the way. I'm still kind of continuing to to do grief work and and to run workshops, which is what I love. But also I can explore places. I love nature. And so nature has been like a big support for me. And I think going to places where there's different landscapes and different hikes is is just very therapeutic. so
00:32:34
Speaker
Yeah, that's perfect. How long do you plan this trip to be and how long do you stay in each place that you arrive? It really differs. So I've only started in the second of March. So this is the first month of my trip and I'll be traveling for five months and then coming back to Melbourne in August. for a ah project that I have. And then I'm not sure if I'll, I feel like I won't be done. I feel like I won't be done with with traveling, but i will I'll see how I go until then. But at least five months in this this, the beginning of the journey and then coming back to Melbourne and then it's like a bit of a reset. I can decide whether I want to continue exploring places or to stay in Melbourne
00:33:25
Speaker
or which city Or which city you fell in love with during your trip and that you get go back to call home. you know Exactly. You never know where it would take you. So ah let's talk about the other losses. You've had other losses in your life, that different types. Your grandparents passed away. You've had breakups, different types of losses. How do you feel? That the tools you gathered or have learned to use along the way in the your grief journey with your mom Have now played a part in the other grief experiences you had Yeah, I really feel like I I have a lot of options now in my tool belt to sort of draw on when I when I
00:34:20
Speaker
I'm going through a loss, whether it is a relationship breakup or whether it's global crises that are happening, the environment, whether it's my, yeah, I have lost all my grandparents now. And I'm really intentional about processing the grief. I i kind of basically just, choose the different types of kind of tools that I have and actually put them into practice you know whether it is sometimes it's movement like I ah might go for a walk or I might kind of I did recently some grief movement training which is really great like a bit of it kind of incorporates yoga and breathing and sound and so I have that as an extra tool now I can draw on movement I can
00:35:10
Speaker
cook sometimes it's just cooking and crying or sometimes it's listening to music ah but I know that when I do face a ah new loss it's kind of like okay I have been here before I kind of understand the process that I need to give myself time to grieve first before moving before kind of just jumping to something else so I'm intentional about taking time to do that and and I use the different sort of things that I've learned along the way you know it could be journaling which I still do so now it I still obviously deal with the grief but it's sort of I know what to do when it comes up
00:36:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Gabriela, you mentioned your mom's scarves when you started the grief cocoon and that you would put him there and kind of bring her along with you in the space.
Honoring Family and Personal Growth
00:36:14
Speaker
How do you bring your mom along in your everyday and how is it that you've continued that connection and relationship with her? What are some of those ways? Yeah so over the years I still actually have her scarves and i I still just yesterday was wearing her shirt a yellow shirt that she had and so I it was always the I think the easiest way to kind of connect with her is through this her items you know her jewelry or her clothes and and scarves but actually
00:36:50
Speaker
over the years, more recent years, I've realized that, you know, the biggest way I carry her with me is through the the way I am with people. Like, you know, she was a very generous person. She was a very kind person. She wasn't judgmental. And so my, I intend to be more of that, like to to be kind to people. to not judge people, to sort of give, you know, share what I have and and to actually embody some of those values that she she shared and that she had. So really I realized that if all the stuff, if I didn't have any of her stuff anymore, I could still, you know, I still carry her with me internally and and through my interactions with people. And that is the biggest, I think that's even more
00:37:42
Speaker
significant to me now because it's not just about the the stuff, the physical things, but it's more about actually acknowledging that she's part of me and and that I'm part of her through ah shared our shared values in the way that we are in the world. yeah And the legacy continues that way more than it would with an item. The the legacy continues of the lives you've touched that you would have not other otherwise influenced had you not experienced the grief of your mom and the person that you are.
00:38:22
Speaker
How are ways that you and your sisters and your dad incorporate her into your lives in like when you have gatherings? Or how is that dynamic now? Because I know like when somebody having, again, who's out of shared experience, I know it happened for me, the dynamic family dynamics change a lot when someone dies. So how did that shift? I think I just did two questions there. Yeah, it definitely did shift because she was, I think, the person who brought everyone together. She was that person that kind of like invited us over and and like, well, actually, I was still living with my mum and dad at the time. But in terms of my sisters, she was kind of the person that was the glue, I think. And so when, you know, she was no longer there, it was sort of hard to
00:39:17
Speaker
make that happen again and to to continue that that kind of family, those family get togethers. And then my dad you know remarried a couple of, like not that long couple of years after my mom died. So that was also a big change in in in our family dynamics. But now I think with my sisters, especially like when you know we messaged each other, when it's an anniversary or birthday of our mum, or one of us might find photos that we see and we send it to each other. Or yesterday, actually, no, the other day, yeah, this week, my sister found a video that I think we had we had put together for her funeral, like a collage of just a montage. Yeah, it's a collection of photos. And she for some reason found it on her phone somewhere and she sent it to, so
00:40:14
Speaker
to me and to my family and like even in Sweden, nephews and nieces and she just said, you know, look what I found. and And so my yeah, so we we kind of just yeah and and I think she's already within us, you know, like she we we are just by the people that we are. We always sort of have mom as part of our lives but now it's sort of a more casual kind of like yeah look what I found or you know does anyone remember where this bracelet of mommy's does anyone have this ring or like you know and we sort of share we we kind of when it happened and we were going through her stuff we were pretty good about it like we we sort of just split things up
00:40:56
Speaker
And we're not kind of, there wasn't any. Especially because there are several, all yeah girls, you're like, no, no, no, that yellow looks good on me. So I'm keeping the yellow. so Yeah, which I know can happen. there There are some, I think, family feuds that come out of going through items. But, you know, I was lucky because none of my sisters wear scarves um or they're not really into scarves. So I was like, cool. And they were happy for me to take the scarves and I wear them, you know, in winter. So I was like, yes. um Yeah, so now it's it's just more of a casual and, you know, my my dad, even though he is remarried and and they still he still has a portrait of my mom in the house. And he's like, that's not going anywhere. You know, like sometimes my one of my sisters will go, can I have that photo? And he's like, no, it's staying here. That that's um but that's important, too, for you as daughters. Right. And seeing that it's not that all of a sudden
00:41:56
Speaker
Oh, poof, no, she's no it's she's still part of yeah your dad's life, even if there's somebody else that is now there too. It doesn't necessarily mean that she's not part of it. So that's beautiful that he has a picture yeah of her as well at home. Gabriela, is there anything I have not asked you that you want to make sure that you share with the audience?
Navigating Personal Grief Timelines
00:42:22
Speaker
I guess I want people to know that You know, it's sometimes it takes a bit of time to process things and, you know, if you are in your first ah few months or weeks or years, sometimes like it's it's not, ah you're not doing it wrong or you're not kind of failing if you're not already, if you haven't started a non-for-profit organization or if you haven't started a podcast like you don't.
00:42:49
Speaker
you don't need to work on other people's timelines and you don't also need to make something out of out of the grief. It's, I think, you know, for me, it took me years and and I think people, I don't maybe, I should share that more because people see me now and think, wow, like she's doing so well, she's dealt with the grief and she's doing, you know, things to help other people, but you know, it it didn't happen overnight and it takes time. And it it took years of feeling lost and numb and down to actually begin to process and come out of that bubble. So I think just hope that you might be you know feeling like there's no end to the pain and then there's no way out, but nothing stays the same. and And that includes like how you feel. I think that's something that I want people to know that even if
00:43:46
Speaker
Yeah, you feel like you should have processed it by now. It's, um, everyone has, takes their own time and and everyone has their own process. So just trust that you'll, you know, you will feel better at some point and the grief will still be there, but you'll learn how to live with it.
00:44:11
Speaker
ah that was That's so good because yes, a lot of times that part that you said about you don't have to necessarily feel that you have to do something with it. Because there's that there's the things that we compare each other at times in grief. In life in general we compare. Oh, people go on. Instagram or Facebook. Oh, how come she? Oh, how can she have a full face of the face of makeup already? It's only 5am. And she's already all put together. I barely roll myself out of bed and make myself, you know, or whatever. And then in grief, we compare the way we grieve, we compare then also then the results at times as well, like, wow, I can't believe this person's already doing that. I have yet
00:44:54
Speaker
to even go through my mom's things yet or i have yet to do XYZ. Yes, no, that is not beneficial to you to do that. First of all, do any of us to compare each other? And yes, you're right. Not everybody is going to express their grief in the same way. I may not write a song like you do. That is not my outlet. I have a podcast. That was a way that I did. Other people, it will be in a personal way. they'll that The world may never know that they are grieving. They may just impact other people's lives differently. So yes, and do not feel that you have to do something yeah to to carry on the legacy of that of that and that person. Gabriela, it has been an honor to chat with you and how can people get
Connecting with Grief Cocoon Community
00:45:45
Speaker
a hold of you? I know I'll put all the links of your website on the show notes, but if you want to share a little more of how people can connect with you with a grief cocoon and just the work you do. Yeah, sure. um So yeah we i do we have an Instagram page, we're on Facebook and TikTok just at the grief cocoon. And if
00:46:08
Speaker
people want to be part of the Grieficune community as well. They can just download the Grieficune from their app store. And there's a whole lot of resources and links on that as well. And um yeah, I'll always share my email as well. If people want to connect that way, there's the website, thegrieficune.com. And yeah, I'm happy to connect anyway. You could send me a message online or yeah, just connect through the community and The app, how do you how do people do the app? Like, is that also on your website, the app that you mentioned, the community? app Yes, there is a link to it on the website. But if they just look up the grief cocoon on whether it's the App Store or Google Play, they'll find it there as well.
00:46:56
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Thanks so much. oh My honor to have you and I'm glad we were able to find a time that was not 3am. Me too. i but I think I'm much more awake now. and Thank you. We'll have an amazing day and thanks again for sharing your story and your mom. What was your mom's name? What is your mom's name? My mom's name was Samira. Samira, and thanks for sharing Samira with us through you. yeah Thanks, Kendra. It's been a lovely conversation.
00:47:28
Speaker
Thanks. When we read a novel and we know that it's fiction, yet we can relate to certain aspects of the characters' lives, it it can help us in our own journey in a way that it's it's kind of like when you hear music, right? it's it it has a ah It touches a different chord than sometimes when you're reading a memoir, because and with a memoir, you are you know for sure those things happen. and or facts and you can still relate but they hurt you differently than in a novel so in a novel is that the subtle way of being able to touch on topics that are hard in the characters lives but then within ourselves in order to reflect
00:48:16
Speaker
and and yeah and just have perspective of our own of our own lives. So I think you've done that beautifully. A lot of different topics touched in both your books that will give the the listeners who will be the readers who give the readers of your novel a lot of insight about their own life. So thank you Cheryl for sharing that with us and sharing aspects about your own life. we Again, we tried not to give it away, but basically it's a love story, but it's a love story. it's a what other it wouldn't be This one's not coming of age type story. The other one would have been this one. what What other topics would it fit into? Love story, grief journey, relationship. It's a love story.
00:49:04
Speaker
Yeah, and it's just about the power of love to overcome anything, you know, and not in a sweetie pie way, you know, it's a life's hard, but but I hope this book, I just think there's some beautiful moments and of relationship in here that, you know, so the the value of staying the course and waiting to get past the 75% mark, you know, it's the power of story to give us courage to move forward in our own journeys. Thank you so much for having me. I am grateful you were on and people can find you on your web website and that is CherylOstrom.com and we look forward to seeing you know how how people feel about when they read the book too so feel free to reach out to Cheryl once you've read the book or reach out to me and
00:49:56
Speaker
give us your insights. Thank you once again, Cheryl, for sharing your own life and Celia and Bernabe's life as well on this podcast. My pleasure. Good to see you again.
00:50:14
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so. Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.