Transcript
Speaker: and the brave new world begins. in
Speaker: When all men are paid for existing, and no man must pay for his sins, as surely as water will wet us, as surely as fire will burn, the gods of the copybook headings with terror and slaughter. eternal
Speaker: Hello everybody and thank you for joining us for another episode of the Copybook Headings podcast. If you're a new listener just joining us for the first time, this show is inspired by the poem by Rudyard Kipling called The Gods of the Copybook Headings.
Speaker: And every week we take an old saying, proverb, or maxim and we break it down to see what we can learn from it and see if there's still any ancient wisdom from these old proverbs that's relevant today. I am your host Patrick Payne and with me as always is my co-host Andrew Stevens.
Speaker: Andrew, how are you man? I'm doing all right. How are you? How are you tonight? I'm doing good. Doing pretty good. um Yeah, we were just talking off air that the weather's been getting nicer, maybe too nice because I'm supposed to go skiing with my family on Saturday and the high is 51, according to the the app. So we might be skiing the slush.
Speaker: Apart from that, pretty good. Yeah, nice. Yeah, the the crocuses are out this week for us, which is always a nice sign. so some The crocuses, huh? Yeah, the first flowers of the year.
Speaker: I don't know the crocus. Yeah, just the little little humble humble little flowers that come up. yeah the they're They're pretty hardy. They shoot up as soon as as soon as they can in the spring or late winter. so yeah Okay. Yeah. so Like it could snow on them and they'll be okay. As long as it doesn't have a really, really cold, they'll be okay. But yeah, i just, I, I get by the end of winter, I'm, I'm so done with it. So it's nice to have some, something cheerful out there.
Speaker: Yeah. Do you get like the, the, the wintertime blues sometimes? Yeah, definitely. And it's funny because um feel like it's, and I notice it a lot as an adult living in Utah, but I grew up farther north and, you know, I think in a gloomy place.
Speaker: And, and and that you know, ah was probably a pretty depressed teenager, but you just don't register quite as much until and and until you're an adult maybe and have some perspective. So I think Because I'd like, oh man, I'd love to move back, move back to the Northwest. I love it up there. But then I think, oh, I don't know if I can handle the winters there anymore. Like it's just too gloomy. I don't know.
Speaker: Yeah, it was just, ah so we've been in Idaho for a few years, but I was moved from Arizona. And Arizona doesn't do daylight saving time, you know? Yeah. And one of the states.
Speaker: ah And so I've talked to people about it. I'm like, ah, daylight saving time is annoying. should switch it. But then a lot of the people here are like, oh, yeah, if we did, we should just keep...
Speaker: the summertime and the daylight saving hours all year round. And, uh, I was surprised to hear that. Cause like it stays so late. They're so light, so late in the summer, you know, it's like, we try to put our kids down like 10 o'clock and it's sunshine through their window.
Speaker: because we're pretty far north um but then our neighbors were like no we love it we'd never give up our summer nights so um that's a thing man people people like like it and uh i'm not used to it i'm still getting used to it but the locals love it up here yeah it that it does make for really great summers yeah it that's true they uh being up farther north you have was late. Like I remember as a kid, you know, just playing, playing outside until it was dark. And in this yeah midsummer, that would be, that'd be pretty late.
Speaker: Yeah. But just every, all the kids were out with ye but playing baseball on the street or whatever, riding bikes around. When we got to our house, like our, our backyard or like ah the back of our house south, facing south.
Speaker: And so we were, i was like back in Arizona, we had like some flood lamps up so you could turn on lights and the backyard be lit up. I'm like, oh, maybe we should do something like that here.
Speaker: And then I'm like, we don't need to, because when it's winter, we're not out in the backyard in the summertime. Like it's completely unnecessary. So, um but yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker: Long story to say, long ah winded thing to say, yes, I'm also excited for spring. ah I'm ready for winter to be over. Yeah. Well, cool. We got a good proverb this week. This is one you picked. You want to tell us about it?
Speaker: Yeah, this one ah is work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion. um Also known as Parkinson's law.
Speaker: This is I actually, I did presentation at work. Um, I guess it was last, last summer. We kind of like, um, every month, a different, uh, department, a different person will kind of present at this kind of informal lunchtime meeting, just kind of tune in.
Speaker: And, uh, and I did one based on this podcast. I did one that was kind of proverb oriented. And this was one that I talked about these kind of, um, laws and principles a lot of them are in in software in technology in design and and this one ah this one i feel like is very true to me as as the way i work and so um i first saw this just up on a on a poster on a wall at the university i i teach at occasionally so
Speaker: um This was originally coined in 1955 by fellow with the last name of Parkinson in an essay in The Economist.
Speaker: So this is a ah pretty recent one. And it's kind of an observation about how how things tend to go. and um And I find it very true that as the more time I have for a project at work um or even even more true, the, like the infinite time of having like and a project, like a hobby is something you're trying, you're trying to do.
Speaker: um Like, Oh, i I want to write that book. Right. But no, there's, you are the only deadline for that. And because of that, it never gets done because you're just filling up all this time. um so ah yeah, that's just, I've been thinking about this one a lot lately.
Speaker: it's a it's It's true at work, it's true in life. And so what did you think? Had you seen this one before? and what were your initial thoughts? I don't think I'd ever heard this one before.
Speaker: um And if I'd heard it, I certainly hadn't heard it in the context of Parkinson's law. I'd never heard that term before. um So this was new. So I looked it up a little bit. There's a Parkinson's law, you know, Wikipedia page.
Speaker: So I read over that a little bit and um yeah, it's interesting. And it's, it seems true to me if I'm, if I'm understanding it correctly. So the more time you have to do something,
Speaker: I guess the the the constraints of ah ah a deadline tend to get us to move quicker. you know yeah and so If you don't have a deadline, it goes on forever. um what What I thought of is so you know everyone's trying to get in shape.
Speaker: Everyone's trying to be in shape. right like That's a thing that people do in America. you know Everyone's got a couple pounds from the holidays and stuff. they're trying to get her so i'm in the same boat. And, uh, you know, I should probably do this or that, or I should, you know, but I go to the gym, but like, it's the diet. Usually you try to clean up and then you never do.
Speaker: Well, I signed up for a jujitsu tournament in April, but I'm eight pounds over weight to the wit for the weight class. Um, So now I'm like, okay, well, I have to lose eight pounds or else I have to go to against the bigger weight class and get beat up yeah you know by these bigger dudes.
Speaker: So I'm like, I don't want to do that. I want to fight the bigger guys. So so I want to cut weight and be the big guy bigger guy on the you know tall end of the weight class.
Speaker: So now I'm like taking it more seriously. Today I fell off the wagon a little bit, which is why I'm mentioning I had some ice cream, but I'm going get back on it tomorrow. But having that deadline was like...
Speaker: made it more real. Cause before that I was like, how many times have I been telling myself, okay, clean up the diet, clean up the diet. You're not doing it. Right. Yeah. That's, that's a great example. That's um I think that's a a good way to kind of, to hack this one, to hijack this one is to think in terms of that, right? Like you set this goal that you actually have to like with competition. That's, it's a great way to think of it. You like,
Speaker: Well, do I want to i going on train until I'm ready for a tournament? No, you you sign up for the tournament and then you train and you hope you can get there and you push yourself to get there, especially with like, you know, getting the right weight class you want to get in.
Speaker: um Like I've done this with with running, with the race, you know, my... My friends and I, we we signed up for a marathon. Like, okay, well, we got to train then because we're going to go to this. And my wife has taken that approach too with with her running and and things. So, yeah, you kind of pick something out there that you think you can reasonably train up for and then sign up for it, put the money on the line, and and get ready for it.
Speaker: Yeah, I think that's great. My my my wife did the same thing. um Years ago, she decided to sign up for like out of nowhere. I think one of her friends signed up for a triathlon and she comes up. She's like, I'm going to do a triathlon. I'm like, what? Like she was not like a runner or anything. She's like, um um I'm signed up. I'm doing it now. And, you know, sure enough, with that deadline, she started training, started working for it. She did it. She completed it. I was really proud of her.
Speaker: So, yeah, there's something about having that. and And not just the the weight and the fitness, but also just the training of jujitsu, right? Because yeah when I first started, I was into it real, you know, I was going three times a week.
Speaker: Then it kind of started to become two times a week. Then it was a week once a week or every other week. And then it's kind of started getting lazy. And and now you're like, oh crap, you know, someone's going to strangle me if I don't so get up and get you know brush up on my skills.
Speaker: So it forces you to get get back in there. So, so yeah. No, I think... ah I think having that, having a goal is important and and not just a goal, but a goal with a, with a time or a day on it is it's pretty big.
Speaker: Yeah. I think like when the, the writing I do like as a hobby, the fiction stuff um I think I have my book, my best is still tricky because I,
Speaker: But anyway, I have my best results when I like have ah a deadline i'm I'm writing for, like if there's a submission for some journal or some magazine or or some contest, like, okay, that's the hard deadline. I have to have something for it.
Speaker: um The problem is there's nothing, at least I've found that since there's nothing on the line there, it's just you might miss out, but you're not like losing anything if you don't finish it. And so that's still kind of a challenge for me is to,
Speaker: still hit that like, well, I got two weeks left. I'm not anywhere close. I'm just gonna have to give up on it. Whereas if there were higher stakes, I'd be like, I got two weeks. I really got to to knuckle down here and, and get it done.
Speaker: i was going to ask that if you've ever tried like putting artificial deadlines on you and on yourself and if that's worked, cause I've tried that before and yeah, it hasn't worked great for me. Not great. that I think I have, um,
Speaker: Better luck, not not good, but better better results when I have like friends involved who are also trying to work on some goals at the same time. And we kind of like have check-ins with each other like every week or something. and just kind of ah But that's also not 100% for me by far Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Um, I I've had that experience lots of times when I've been like, I gotta, I gotta get this done by this day. And if it's, if there's no consequence for it, not being there, then yeah the time fills, yeah the work fills to fill the time. And if there's not any real barrier on the time, it goes forever.
Speaker: Um, but But yeah, so I work in sales and they always go sales also goes quarterly. we're in the first quarter of the year.
Speaker: And sometimes that's frustrating because you're like, you might have a really big deal middle of the year where you're like double your goal and then another quarter you've miss it. And you're like, well, that's stupid. Cause it all averages out. I would have hit it.
Speaker: But I think they do that for a reason because if it was for the whole year, it would be really hard to like stay motivated. Like we're coming up to the last month of the quarter and I'm like a little bit behind goal. I'm like, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta get it.
Speaker: And it makes that, it gives you that deadline where you have to you have to go out and perform. I think. Yeah, that, that's a great, um, it seems like it was probably a pretty good balance, right? Like if you had to do that every month, it would just be way too stressful. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah'm I'm guessing and in the type of sales you're in, like quarterly is kind of a nice balance there. Cause yeah, every, if it's annually, you lose, you lose sight of the finish line. And, and then like, you've got like, you know, you have that great quarter. What if that great quarter was, was Q1? Like you you have your big January, you have your big sale here quota.
Speaker: Like, they're not going to get any work out you for the rest of the year. That's true. you kind of hurt the have to split it up a little bit. Absolutely. All right. so let's talk let's talk about some current events.
Speaker: We've got we got some politics. I know we don't normally talk too much about politics on this show, but with all the Doge stuff going on, And a bunch of inefficiencies and waste kind of being uncovered.
Speaker: um that's that was one That was the other thing I thought of when you sent me this. is I'm like, oh, I wonder if he's and sending me this because of all the stuff that's been going on. i don't know if you had that in mind. No, I didn't.
Speaker: but But it's ah since it applies so much to so the office job kind of world, to the bureaucracies, I think i think if it fits in.
Speaker: um you know if you've got if you've got people who who to have poorly defined roles, which I think probably happens a lot in and big organizations like a massive federal government, like you're going to have people who are just kind of sitting around if they have like one thing in their job description and it's vague, like there's kind of, well, I'll get to it. You know, there's no rush and it just, it just fills out, um, which, you know, um like the, the whole to the, uh,
Speaker: the The details, I guess, notwithstanding, like the the concept of like having to give a manager like, oh, what were the five things you did last week? You know, something like that. Like that, if you have, um if you're if you're pretty busy and you have lots of things going on, that's pretty easy. But if you're kind of in this trap where you just have something that's just lingering, you might not even be able to do something like that. Yeah.
Speaker: And that's, think it's a wake up call for, for everyone. And if you're just kind of coasting and maybe it's no fault of your own, cause that's just the job you've got and no one's told you to do anything else. Like they can be pretty nerve wracking that i'm I'm suddenly on the hook for something that wasn't, that wasn't my fault, but.
Speaker: but it needs to be looked at. you need You kind of need to, need to find out where these inefficiencies are and,
Speaker: and, and re at least restructure kind of re ah reassess how to do the work. Right. Because for me, like fall in this trap a lot where,
Speaker: um I've got a project, especially if the deadline's farther out and um some clients we have don't really put a big cap on um the budget for the projects. It's just like, we just need to get them done.
Speaker: So we'll pay you what it takes, as many hours as you need. and um and And other clients are like, hey, we have a very strict budget here. You got to get this done in this budget. And I think those, um the ones who put that kind of constraint tend to get it. Maybe there's some overages, but the ones who don't, I think they end up paying more because,
Speaker: because they're, they're not controlling that process very well. They also tend to be a little more disorganized and not, and have to kind of go back and redo things a lot, which, which can be expensive.
Speaker: yeah So yeah yeah, that's, that's how I see it. And so I guess coming back around, like from organizational perspective, One thing that helps me is just like that check-in with whoever is in charge like but I report to, right, to my boss.
Speaker: um A lot times for me, it's helpful to do like daily, just a quick five-minute call in the afternoon help clear out any problems I might have and also just kind of report. And that keeps me keeps me accountable and keeps the work going on.
Speaker: Yeah, I ask about that because ah in the you sent me the link to the Wikipedia page and it says um it can refer to either two one of two observations. And the first one is work expanse was to fill the time available for completion.
Speaker: And the second one of Parkinson's Law says the number of workers within public administration, bureaucracy, or officialdom tends to grow regardless of the amount of work to be done. yeah So that seems to kind of true too.
Speaker: That's an interesting yeah it's an interesting one. ah You all should go just read this article. It's pretty short. um That one's interesting because it's it's quantified. There's like a formula involved and stuff. but Yeah, and that weird. basically It's basically like that people want to have subordinates.
Speaker: And so they'll hire, as soon as they're able to hire someone underneath them, they will. And so that just kind of expands because everyone wants to to boss people around, I guess. I don't know.
Speaker: Yeah, I think this the kind of inefficiency and, you know, people, i think inefficiency can be kind of a word where people don't really take very seriously, but ah what What it can mean is is really massive amount of waste and and you know dollars that people are paying in taxes or whatever are not being used for their benefit. They're being used for nothing, you know just stuff that's wasteful.
Speaker: So I think it is important, and but I think it's specifically important. Dangerous in government because there's no, since there's no profit motive, there's no, um you don't really, they don't really have to earn, hit any earnings numbers or or sell a product or offer anything.
Speaker: the money kind of comes in automatically. yeah in a seeming in a seemingly and endless spigot of just budget that just keeps coming in. And ah kind of like, if you don't use it, you lose it.
Speaker: So they have to spend all this budget and then they just ask for more the next year. And then I think that really kind of breeds this kind of inefficiency and and and bloat and waste.
Speaker: So periodically, I think it's important to go through and And, uh, and doge it up. So hopefully we'll make some, make some progress. This, it reminds me, a job I had when I was, when I was young.
Speaker: I think it might've been, it was around the time that I went on my mission. So can't try remember if was right before, right after, I think it was right after. So I would have been around 21 and I just finished, you know, a couple of years of being pretty busy and,
Speaker: and diligent and dedicated like all day long, um, kind of self-motivated in that way. And, uh, the rules are pretty strict of what you can do. And so, so you're back, you know, with your freedom, you're back in the, in the workplace and I was doing some temp work and I, I got a temp job at a, at a big HMO in the Seattle area at their kind of like headquarters working in their IT department. Cause they,
Speaker: They needed help. They're basically ah upgrading all their computers. And so they had to, you know... unbox them and tag them and enter them into the system and take the old ones. So there's just a lot of tedious stuff that needed some extra help with.
Speaker: And, um and I was just, you know, gung ho ripping through it. and And the boss is like, Hey, you got, you got slow down, man. Like, you're gonna, you're gonna work yourself out of a job. Like you're doing a good job, but you gotta, you gotta slow down because I don't have enough to keep you busy here. um And I think, you know, cause he had a budget.
Speaker: for how much like help he could have. Yep. And, um, and I was, and working he wasn't going to use that whole budget cause I was going too fast. And so his his kind of incentive was like, well, to keep my, to keep my budget, I need to get slow this guy down and work needs to slow down.
Speaker: And for me, you know, if, if, uh, if I did all the work, they, they, they'd have to send me out. So, So I slowed down because that's what he told me to do. And it it was very hard was a very hard mentality to get into, just like...
Speaker: walk slower, do everything slower. Although it can also be a hard mentality to get out of. You do that too long. That's true. you con of these guys I think that's, and think that's what happened with, you know, what happens with the people who were there all the time and, you know, going on like this boss, I remember he going on a smoke break every hour and just, you know, I got like just slow, slow and down his work, his work pace. Yeah.
Speaker: I had a job like that once where I was working for a very large company that most people would recognize. And it was like, the company was like the Titanic, you know, it was just so big it's had a lot of government contracts actually. And,
Speaker: Healthcare and science and this and that and the other. Every industry you can think of had something in it. And ah changing that, anything at that company was like moving a gigantic cruise ship. It's just like so slow to do anything.
Speaker: And like people who were there had been there forever. They've been there for 30 years. They're going to die there. Nobody really did whole lot of work that fast. I mean, things would get done just real slow.
Speaker: I remember one time... I told my boss, was like, hey, I got to tell you, like i just don't have a lot to do. Do you need have been anything for me to do? And he's like, well, you know, part of what you're being paid for is just to be available.
Speaker: Like, okay. So I'm just sitting in my home office, just waiting for someone to call or email me with something. He's like, uh-huh. All right. Sounds good. okay But it was like, it was really nice at first because it was so chill. And then it just started to like great wear on me. And I'm like, man, this is so boring. And I wasn't growing or learning anything or I wasn't excited about anything. I was like, this is not going to end up dead, you know?
Speaker: And I'm like all these other corpses walking around this place. It's funny, I i find that my work, the volume of my work fluctuates a lot. And the weeks where I have very little work to do And so I have to kind of find some stuff to stay busy with, know, training or stuff like that.
Speaker: Um, just kind professional development. Like those, those weeks are drag and they're stressful. Like it's way more stressful than the weeks that I'm swamped with work and just have way too much to do. Like the, that on those weeks, the time passes quickly.
Speaker: ah feel good at the end of the day. I got a lot done, but the, the slow weeks are rough. I think ah there's decision fatigue. you know like When you're constantly having to look at your day and be like, what do I fill it up with? What do I do? What should I be doing?
Speaker: That's stressful and exhausting. People don't think of it like that, but it it really is because you're like, okay, am i doing what I'm supposed to be doing? Is my boss going to email me and say, give me five things you've done? you know what But when you're when you're hustling, you have no decision fatigue. You know exactly what you're doing because you've got a zillion things on your list and you're just trying to knock them off as quick as you can because you've got 10 more to do after that.
Speaker: I think it can be physically more tiring, but mentally it's it's almost simpler in a way. It's less ah less worry. Yeah, it's that's I think that's right. and i think that's a great way to think about it.
Speaker: Um, what do you think? So apart from, you know, we talked about trying to put artificial constraints on yourself, which just doesn't can work maybe, but doesn't, yeah in my opinion, it hasn't, in my experience, hasn't been like super reliable way to get you fired up.
Speaker: Um, what do you think? Are there any ways you can, you can use this to your advantage to try to be more productive or get more things done? Uh, I think, you know, the, the accountability aspect is good.
Speaker: um like that's a boost. It's not foolproof, least its not for me, but um but it helps a lot, especially like in a work situation. just like depending emy got Depending on your workplace, mine, my my managers are are great, and so it's easy to talk to them about that. Like, hey, it would help me a lot if we could just check in every day. That way I'll stay focused.
Speaker: um But I don't know. There's... Maybe, don i don't know, maybe someone has written a book about this or something, but like some kind of like purposeful procrastination something like that, right?
Speaker: Because I don't know if you saw on this Wikipedia page, there's some some corollaries to this one that some people have come up with. One of them is pretty great. If you wait until the last minute, it only takes a minute to do, which, you know, is true in some senses. Like you could, you could do a really terrible job, but it's kind of true. Like you, you're that deadline hits and it's over.
Speaker: Like whether, whether you did a good job or not, it's done. And so, you know, i don't know if there's a way to to set up your life where you kind of, are artificially shortening these, these time periods so that you're, you're just in that kind of last minute zone for some things.
Speaker: Um, another one is, the Asimov corollary, which is in 10 hours a day, you have time to fall twice as far behind your commitments as in a five hour day.
Speaker: So, Um, I think this one's true. Like when I have a big open day and I've got a lot of things, like it's a Saturday or something, I've got a lot to do. If I'm just sitting there kind of like thinking about it all day long, I'm not getting as much done as if, if I'd had half the amount of time and a better plan and a better focus, like it's better. Yeah. It's better to run out of stuff to do, or it's better run out of time to do stuff than, than the other way around. So, um,
Speaker: But once again, if you're the only one kind of keeping yourself honest about it, it can be tricky. And think that's the key right there is if it's only your own only yourself, um possibly one of the tips here then is to involve other people, right?
Speaker: Yeah. um If you have an idea, then you're working on something You're like, you know what? I'm going to work on this project and I'm gonna show my boss and see what they think. Maybe it's worthwhile to send them an email and say, hey, I'm working on something.
Speaker: I want to show it to you at the end of the week. you have time but to meet with me on Friday? yeah I want to show you this this project I've worked on rather than I'm going to work on this on my spare time and then show it to my boss when I'm done and see what they think of this.
Speaker: You know what i mean? Or, you know, i'm you're writing a, you want to get her some writing work done, post online that you're going to have a one of your new poems or one of you your new articles or one your new whatever. It's going to drop this time. You know, when you have yeah other people involved, maybe some people don't, it doesn't impact them as much. But to me, if there's someone dependent on on something,
Speaker: yeah That spurs me to action. I'm going have to try that. So be on the lookout because I have to try that to to promise delivery to to some people here and yeah you know give myself a a week or two to do it. and And that way, yeah, just kind of your reputation becomes at is at stake at that point, right?
Speaker: that you got That you'll do what you say and and get things done. Yeah. And we've talked about this before, or even with the podcast, having a day that we do it and people listen to it. You know, last time when we missed an episode, I had a friend of ours yeah text me, hey, where's the episode? like, I crapped me.
Speaker: We're going to get out this week. So yeah, having other people kind of expecting things of you for sure can can help with that. So yeah, it could be a way to solve that problem. But yeah.
Speaker: This is an interesting one, man. I'm glad you thought this one. I wouldn't have ah wouldn't have thought about this one, but um and now I know what Parkinson's Law is. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, it's it's it's a bit more modern. It's a bit more corporate, but um but there's ah as as our times change, there's room to to include new new proverbs ah that work for but work for us now.
Speaker: ah One of the links to this Wikipedia page is the Dilbert principle, which says that companies tend to promote incompetent employees to management to minimize their ability to harm productivity.
Speaker: That's pretty funny. there's a Yeah, you guys should check out this Wikipedia page. It's pretty funny. All right. Well, hey, um thanks for picking this one. It was good one. And thanks, everyone, for listening. We will see you guys all next week. All right. We'll see you later.
Speaker: There are only four things certain since social progress began.
Speaker: And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins, when all men are paid for existing, and no man must pay for his sin, as surely as water will wet us,
Speaker: As surely as fire will burn, the gods of the copybook hideous, with terror and slaughter to return.
