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You Reap What You Sow
33 Plays11 days ago
In this episode Patrick and Andrew discuss the unavoidable law of the harvest, and how taking responsibility for everything in your life can have massively positive effects.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
and the brave new world begins when all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins as surely as water will wet us as surely as fire will burn the gods of the coffee book headings with terror and slaughter returned
00:00:28
Speaker
Hello, everybody, and thank you for joining us for another episode of the Copybook Headings podcast. If you're a new listener, just joining us for the first time. This show is inspired by the poem by Rudyard Kipling called The Gods of the Copybook Headings. And every week we take an old saying, proverb, or maxim and we break it down to see what we can learn from it and see if there's any ancient wisdom that's still relevant today from these old proverbs.
Hosts' Holiday Plans
00:00:49
Speaker
I am your host, Patrick Payne, and with me, as always, is my co-host, Andrew Stevens. Andrew, how are you, man? I am doing great. How are you?
00:00:57
Speaker
You know, living the dream, just doing, doing whatever. I was just telling you off air, I pretty much done with my work for the year. So I think I'm going to take some time off and we told you we're taking the the kids to out of town. We're going to go up to Oregon coast, um which yeah you, you're you, you, you're a fan of that place too. So.
00:01:15
Speaker
I am. I love i love the coast i love cold coasts in the winter. That's just great. Like I said, I've been trying to talk my family into this for a long time because I thought it would be a great trip. Finally, I have, and I think everyone's stoked about it now. my um We're going to this town called Seaside, and my wife even ordered some from like the city. You can get a like ah but a booklet like a physical booklet mailed to your house of all the things to do. And so we were all looking through it, and like you can go find sand dollars on the beach or There's a boardwalk with an arcade and like all the kids are stoked about it. Everyone's excited. So I think it'll be a good time Yeah, the sand dollar hunt is is always a favorite that we do that too and and yeah, because most of the time it's rare enough that it's You know if you find ah an intact one that makes for like just one of them makes it for a good trip So having all the kids out there coming
00:02:06
Speaker
It's a good good way to keep them busy. So is that kind of rare to find one like that then? Complete? At least. I mean, it it must it must depend beach by beach. But for the most part, yeah, it's it's like where my sister lives. There'll be you know tons of pieces everywhere, like broken ones. But it's pretty hard to find an intact one that isn't like alive still. Right. Sometimes you can go to a beach and you can find a whole bunch that are still alive. But yeah, the like the bleached white ones, they're sometimes they're hard to come by.
00:02:37
Speaker
I've heard that they are easier to find, like there's high tide, and low tide, then there's like negative tide or something. And then it's like a rare time. I don't know. I didn't even know that that was a thing, but apparently that's the best time to find them. Yeah. That ah but makes sense. I think a lot of stuff gets, a lot of cool stuff gets put down there and exposed during those, those times.
00:02:55
Speaker
So we were, yeah, we were Googling when those times were. And so we'll, we'll see if we can catch some, find some good stuff. I think the kids are going to have a blast just like hunting through these little, you know, looking at little creatures and shells and all sorts of fun stuff. So it'd be a good time. What are you guys doing? You guys going anywhere? <unk>t I don't remember prior if I asked you. We're staying put. It's been a, it's been a quiet week for me work wise. We've been.
00:03:16
Speaker
splitting, uh, childcare duties. And, uh, since we don't have like, we're not officially off yet, but next week, yeah, it's going to be nice and quiet. I'll just here at home together and.
00:03:29
Speaker
Um, yeah, looking really looking forward to it. That's a, that's a fun time. Are you guys, are you guys going to have a white Christmas is looking like, I mean, we've had like no snow this year, practically. like Yeah, we, we haven't either. Um, I don't know. I don't know if we are. I should check the network. We're getting close enough. I can probably peek at the forecast and see if they're thinking anything, but yeah, it's been really.
00:03:49
Speaker
dry and or and warm so far.
Origins and Variations of 'You Reap What You Sow'
00:03:54
Speaker
Mm-hmm, yeah, same. Well, um jumping into the proverb, this one's ah this one's kind of a naughty or nice a little bit yeah list. Pressing a little bit. Yeah, this one is one that I selected, ah you reap what you sow. And this that's obviously there's a lot of different variations, different iterations of this one. um Originally, I mean, my and my understanding that originally was just from the Bible, in the Book of Galatians, or it says, ah you know, ah depending on which translation you have, man reads what he sows. But I mean, there's doing some research on it, there's, you know, a ton of different um versions of this that basically say the same thing from cultures all around the world, um you know, separate from the Bible. I don't know, what did what did you think when I when I toss this one your way?
00:04:48
Speaker
Well, it's it's a this one's ah a little bit of a ah heavy one, maybe ah maybe because it's just because it's a very it's very cut and dry and it's very true. Yeah. um and And like you, you know, like you pointed out, just pretty much every culture has a version of this. Everyone has, you know, has this as a as a touchstone in in their wisdom, you know, and so it's ah it's a big one to take on and um And also, you know, what does one say about this one? yeah Also, ah you know, there's a lot of because it's it is so relevant all the time. There's always new
00:05:30
Speaker
um new versions of it and today that takes place in in the meme the me world. And so the the one that goes around right now I think is the the F around and find out meme. That's right. So yeah, the that that came to mind too for me.
00:05:51
Speaker
Yeah, this one is kind of heavy. I mean, I mean, I hadn't really thought that it is, you know, kind of serious and kind of like big. So I don't know. Maybe I was feeling maybe I was feeling. um ah What's the word? Not optimistic, but ah um anyway, whatever. It's on the word when you feel like you're up for a huge challenge. um Yeah. But anyway, ah yeah, i'll well, ill I was thinking maybe I could start by reading a couple of different ones because I
Modern Interpretations of the Proverb
00:06:19
Speaker
found some interesting ones, of some different versions of this.
00:06:22
Speaker
Um, obviously there's kind of, okay. So there's this, uh, there's this, I guess a, a Kashmiri proverb from the Kashmir region. It says, if you sow nettle, you can't reap lilacs. So that one's pretty much the same thing. ah Same concept. Uh, there's a Chinese proverb says, um, if this one's a little bit different, but I kind of like this one too. It says, if you work hard enough, gold will grow out of the land.
00:06:52
Speaker
Okay. um And there's ah another one that says, you get rewarded if you give and you harvest if you sow. Um that one's somewhere in central central asia, I think and then ah a turkish one This one's a little different. Everyone will taste their own poison. So A lot of these have kind of a similar. I mean we could probably do Each of these, you know, like each of these an episode on each of these and talk about their differences but but um, yeah, the whole the main the main gist of it is You get back what you put in and um
00:07:30
Speaker
Like you said, it may be it's kind of like ah when i when I thought of this one, I had the same thought originally, like, what do you what do you say about this one because it's so big? But um for me, it was the the thought process I went down was just like kind of an extreme ownership where it seems like it's real common today where people might pay lip service to something like this.
00:07:54
Speaker
People have a hard time understanding that most of their problems are probably caused by their actions in some way Yeah, and they're reaping things that they're that they're putting in place. So yeah, I don't know. What do you think about that? Yeah, I ah I agree with that I i um I was thinking I was thinking a bit about like the There's been like some cri crypto news lately. I mean, there's always crypto news, crypto currency. Right. um there's
00:08:26
Speaker
um that about I mean, and and a big a big component of that is is just the money for nothing aspect, right? Just to get rich quick, um you know bet on the right meme coin, the right ridiculous thing, and then you get rich off of, I guess, everyone else who who got in late, right? ah That's just kind of that's kind of how it works it's a lot of those with a lot of those.
00:08:51
Speaker
And there's, there's one, uh, you know, some, you know, 15 minute celebrity put out a coin and, um, there was immediate, you know, the price shot up and then there was what they call the rug pole where the, where they kind of, you know, dump the coin and and cash in and the the price tanks again. Um, and, and she's getting, you know, sued by a bunch of people who who lost a ton of money investing in this, but you know, on the one hand,
00:09:21
Speaker
Like everyone everyone's kind of a scoundrel in this because everyone was trying to to reap where they do not sow, right? Like everyone was trying to make money off each other. And in situations like that, you just, you know, there's there's no sympathetic character. everyone's just ah
00:09:41
Speaker
Everyone's just trying to yeah try to make a buck ah at everyone else's expense. Yeah, and i've I mean, I've been tempted to in that way too. There have been some investments that I've been like, oh, you know, if I could, you you always hear the story of someone who hit it big, you know, and I'll throw a little money here and there. And I've bought some of those stupid coins before. And of course, they went mainly nowhere. But I never invested enough to really lose anything. So. Right. um But, ah but yeah, there's the there's the concept of getting something for nothing, which is essentially reaping what you haven't sewn. And that's typically tied to a poor outcome when we see, you know, a lot of winners or things like that. And i've we've talked about this on the on the show before in in and and and money ah comes to mind. And I think we can talk probably a lot about that. But like, I think there's just a ton of different areas where this
00:10:36
Speaker
where this ah applies like I had to do a little soul searching myself not too long ago in parenting because um it's hard to say you know if you're having a kid that's struggling that it's you know the parents fault and sometimes it might be but you know oftentimes it maybe it isn't but I noticed that it when I adjusted some parenting strategies, things started to improve, which made me wonder, well, maybe some issues that a few of my kids are having. Maybe maybe I just needed to look inward and and and think that maybe some of these are some of these are caused or maybe at least exacerbated by my shortcomings as a parent.
Personal Responsibility and Daily Actions
00:11:18
Speaker
And so
00:11:20
Speaker
um Yeah, it's I mean, I think it's it's a that should always be one of our first reactions is to look inward and to try to be a little introspective on stuff first and see what what can I do or what have I done wrong before we start blaming external sources. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. um Yeah, little kids and You know, or even even like my dog, like, are very are very like sensitive to energy right. They're sensitive, they're sensitive to your mood so if you go into something.
00:11:55
Speaker
And you've got the wrong mindset. You've got the wrong mood. It's going to going to spoil the interaction. Even if you're doing everything like the same as you might otherwise. um just ah and And they pick up on that, right? Like today I was helping ah helping my toddler on the toilet. And she's like, Daddy, are you are you like?
00:12:18
Speaker
Are you angry? I was like, no, I'm not angry. Are you frustrated? that's like Because that was that's usually the default. If I'm kind of angry, like if you know it's bedtime and she's kind of stalling, she's like, oh I have to go potty.
00:12:30
Speaker
And so i'm I'm kind of irritated with her. And that's usually where I'm like, no, I'm not angry. I'm just frustrated. But and but today I wasn't even frustrated. She's like, no, I'm just I think i mean I'm just impatient. we We're trying to get out the door, you know, yeahp we're going to go go to the pool. And so but yeah, she's like running down these things like, oh, and it's just like a reminder to me like, oh, yeah, that's something I mess up. Okay, that other level, that's something to like, just need to be ah much more much more sensitive and aware of of the energy I'm giving ah you know sewing in in that relationship because it's right now it's it's not a huge deal but you know it could something something bad could grow out of that.
00:13:16
Speaker
Yeah, it could. and And it's good that you you recognize that. and And there's just so many ways to sew, you know? And that's yeah that's i that's I think maybe what made me want to kind of delve into this one a little bit is because we know you know You reap what you sow, you do something stupid, it comes back to bite you. You eff around to find out, right? We've all heard that. But what people, I think, what we might miss is that every interaction we have is sowing something, whether it be oh a word to a coworker. Is it a kind word? Is it an unkind word? Is it a neutral? Is it whatever? You're sowing something, you know the way you and interact with your spouse or your kids or your job. how how are you
00:13:59
Speaker
um are Are you tackling your day? Are you getting after? Are you are you setting you know goals for yourself and doing things? Or are you doing it a little bit differently? um and And none of us are perfect, but there's ah always room to kind of look at the the different things that we're showing. So I don't know. Just looking at my own life, I see areas that I i don't like. you know so Areas that I'd like to improve are things that i I don't love about what's going on. It's like, I have a lot to be thankful for, but and sometimes I go, I don't like this or I don't like that.
00:14:31
Speaker
Um, maybe it's helpful, helpful and healthy to stop and look at what inputs I'm putting into those. Yeah. and And you, you also bring up a good point. My, my instinct on this one was just to go negative and and just, I don't know, dwell there, but like, this is a very it is a neutral, it is a neutral proverb in that neutral.
00:14:55
Speaker
Um, you know, you put good stuff in, you reap good things. And so, but my mind, my mind goes, oh, it's cautionary. This is a cautionary one. Um, you need to watch out about the bad things you do. Um, but yeah, I mean, there's, this can be taken in the positive way too. Um, you, you know, the.
00:15:15
Speaker
the The pay it forward thing that we talked about sometimes that you see it like a at the drive, I get a fast food drive in or something where someone pays for the person behind them and it keeps going back and back and back and just. um Just the the kind of good things you put out there can come back and and pay dividends. The the relationships you make by being friendly and open can can lead to good things. Mm hmm.
00:15:42
Speaker
Yeah, I 100% agree. it's it's like it It definitely is neutral. Could be good or could be bad. I'll share an example. I um i work in sales and i've there's this one customer that ah kind of ah I have my territory cover several different states. And this particular customer is like on the border of two states out in the middle of nowhere.
00:16:03
Speaker
And so no sales rep had basically ever been there because most of the time when they carve up territories, they do it by state and mine happens to cover a couple of different ones. um And so for me, I'm traveling from one state to another. They're kind of on the way, but most places like they would never get out there to see them. So they I come in and I'm talking to them and they're just like, oh, we use this competitive product, a different company. And I'm like, OK. And so I just started like.
00:16:29
Speaker
as I'm going through periodically stopping in, sometimes I bring them some bagels or something, you know, just like, Hey, I'm your I'm your rep for this company. If you guys ever need anything from us, here's some stuff we do. And I just started building the relationship with this lady at the front desk. Turns out she's like the wife of the owner of the company. So she's she's more than just a, you know, receptionist. And I kind of start, you know, getting to know her.
00:16:52
Speaker
um walk in just this week and they're like, oh, it's funny you come in because like we're we're having all these problems with this equipment that we've been using forever, this competitive company. And ah maybe after the holidays, let's sit down and and tell us what you got. And this could be a huge you know competitive switchover from all this equipment that they have to our stuff.
Building Relationships and Health
00:17:17
Speaker
And, um, I mean, that was just planting little seeds that was just going by, going by, going by, going by. If the first time they're like, yeah, we use another competitor, but we're good. See ya. And I never, I was like, all right, well, later, you know, um, that would have been the end of it. But, uh, but yeah, could be, could be something could be a good opportunity. Um, so yeah, little, little actions repeated over time can have good results. Yeah.
00:17:44
Speaker
They, um, Another example I was thinking of with this one was um like health is a big one, which is so hard because it's so many little ones you know put together. It's really hard to to pinpoint you know where you went right or where you went wrong because it's like multiplied by 10 million different activities, whether you're being physically active, what you're eating, what you're what you're doing. If you're getting enough sleep, that's a big one for me is not getting enough sleep.
00:18:14
Speaker
um You know, right when I think I'm like, Oh, my diet's fairly good. And then it's like, Oh, what about sleep? So yeah, there's all those more stuff, more stuff to do. But um I don't know. What do you think? Any ah anything company can come to your mind about this one about like, yeah, maybe like a positive aspect. Yeah, health was health was a good one. um I mean, and it's also.
00:18:36
Speaker
um Yeah, I mean, as part of that, you've got you've got the the habit building, um we're trying to get in good routines, good habits. Like you said, the small things add up the little, um you know, to stay biblical here, right? Planting the little mustard seed makes for a big plant. yep um And so you just, in the moment, it it can be discouraging and you and you don't you don't see how you could possibly reap a benefit from what you're doing but um ah just that that repeated small action makes a big difference and and can get you where you want to be. Yeah and um I mean if you think about like um like a close friendship, like you and your best friend,
00:19:28
Speaker
If someone asked why they're your best friend, you wouldn't tell them one thing. It's not like, oh, because he saved my life from sharks. you know one to like Maybe it is, but probably not like some big thing. It's because you've had many, many interactions with that person over time in which you've developed an acquaintanceship, a little bit of a friendship, and then that friendship grew and grew and grew until you're your best friends with this person.
00:19:53
Speaker
um And so so, yeah, I mean, ah and and those are happening in every relationship in our entire lives, whether we want it to or not, whether it be for good or for bad or for neutral. Mm hmm.
Societal Attitudes Towards the Proverb
00:20:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:10
Speaker
um
00:20:15
Speaker
Tim, I got all but all introspective on that one, I think. What kind of, you know, what kind of friend of mine and stuff. So um I guess, ah to to to change gears a little bit, like what do you think um with the broader society, does is this one valued? I mean, it's it's it such a universal one. um But do you think people behave as if it is? Or are people out there trying to
00:20:51
Speaker
trying to reap what they don't sow or to and ignore what they're sowing. Hope it doesn't come back around. This is kind of like a lot of them where I think where there's some lip service, but I don't know if it's really fully fully respected. there's ah I mean, people love to point out the stupid actions that people, you know, the the F round find out that's that's ah so common. Haha, look at the stupid thing this person did. um But, you know, that's always someone else, right? It's always someone else. Yep. And it's never them. And and also, it's um if you if you think about the analogy of ah of a sewing wheat or something, it takes a long time to mature and to grow. And sometimes people don't look back far enough.
00:21:36
Speaker
and so and look at very, very small actions that someone's taking that's leading them down a road that could end up with some disaster someday. And then everyone's gonna laugh at them and like, we'll go to stupid thing that person did. ah But it can start extremely small.
00:21:49
Speaker
And so, um recognizing that your actions are small seeds being planted, I don't know that people do that so much. I don't know that I do that that much, and I think that's why it's a helpful reminder. What about you? ah Yeah, it's ah yeah it's it's one that people people recognize it in others, but not necessarily of themselves, for sure.
00:22:14
Speaker
um And also, it just occurred to me, another place this has found is the right the the fable of the the ah ant and the grasshopper. Oh, yeah. um pretty Pretty old and and well-established story of industry, or just ah just being lazy or just playing around when you when you should be working. um So yeah, sorry, as as a little side note there.
00:22:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think, um
00:22:50
Speaker
I don't know, like I'm trying to think of like, when it comes to like, broader, like institutionally, right? And whatever that means, like, there's there's a lot of institutions, but like, is this one reinforced in that regard? Or is it just at an individual level, right? Like,
00:23:09
Speaker
um
00:23:13
Speaker
i don't I don't know, I don't know. what What do you think? Are there like in in government, in in business, like is this an iron law or is this somewhat flexible? I would say probably somewhat flexible. um But I mean, the whole point of the proverb is that it catches up to you, right? Over time. And so whether your institution is actively promoting it or not, I don't think you can avoid it.
00:23:43
Speaker
and And that's what makes it some of these proverbs good is the ones that you can't avoid, the ones that are true.
Writing, Labor, and Life's Big Questions
00:23:49
Speaker
you know if ah you know there's There are other sayings, the cream rises to the top, right? If you're if you're working hard and and doing the right thing, those type type of people tend to be noticed eventually, even if yeah the institution they're in might not b have the best mechanism for it. um I was actually curious about, I was gonna ask you about something.
00:24:10
Speaker
um We were talking recently about Some of your writings that you've done and like, you know, you recently won a prize for some of your writing that you've done um How does that go I mean because that's that seems like a very Labor intensive process you're putting in the hours time and time again to get to write a story or to write Yeah, an article like how does that process go for you?
00:24:35
Speaker
um Yeah, I guess to start off like the the broader idea of like is if you when it when comes to like writers are very pessimistic right now it's not it's not the best ah industry to be in and especially to try to get into right and so it's kind of makes it's making me laugh here. The idea of you know putting in putting in the effort you know will eventually pay off and because it's not always the the case that it will um with with writing. But um but i just I just do it because it's I enjoy it and there's there's stories to to tell. I think there's um
00:25:15
Speaker
One thing, I don't know if we've talked about this or not in previous episode, but you know, say what you will about ah Jordan Peterson. One thing I heard him say that has really stuck with me and I think is very true about like the great literature is that it seeks to like, it it takes on ah a question, a big question of life.
00:25:36
Speaker
and and kind of tries to answer it. um And it's usually you know it's not explicit, because the the good writing isn't isn't explicit that way. But that's what you're trying to do, is you're trying to trying to wrestle with a ah big question and in life. And and so I ah try and have that in the back of my mind. that that's what The point is, that's what I'm trying to do, is ah explore big ideas and in ah small with a small story and and see See if we can kind of crack the nut. So, um so stuff I've done that I've been most proud of is stuff um like this this one story is kind of based on some family history of a, of a teenager who who died tragically and, ah and just the
00:26:26
Speaker
Life is stranger than fiction kind of idea, like everything you you need there, but there's there's places to to embellish and explore. um Yeah, I don't know. I just ah i think it's a worthwhile endeavor. if you If you feel inclined to write something, it's it's worthwhile just to do it as a human expression, even if the AI takes over all of all of creative endeavors. in the In the popular culture, I think that people will keep writing because it's it's a human thing to do and it's something that we will always want to do.
00:27:03
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's the best kind of work is the kind of work that you feel drawn to do, not the kind of work that yeah you are compelled by someone else to do. you know if if If it's coming from inside you and you're like, I just feel like I need to write, then heck yeah, you absolutely should do it. So I'm glad that you do. um but yeah i mean But yeah, that was great. i think it's a yeah I've read some of your stuff and I think i think it's really good. and and Sometimes I wish i could I could write better, but I know to do that I need to actually write. So I'm i'm not sewing, and so I'm not reaping ah any benefit. But yeah, a good writer is is is is ah something valuable.
00:27:44
Speaker
Yeah, and what you said touches on a ah very good point. like you you need to You do need to put in the reps to get to get better. And that's something I struggle with because I want it to be right the first time. And so I'll delay doing anything at all because it's not going to be good enough. But you really do need to just do some volume.
00:28:09
Speaker
Volume you mix a makes up a ah lot of ah ah lot of the ground there. And then you can then you can be good. But you got to gotta do the the mundane stuff first.
00:28:21
Speaker
It's funny you mentioned that, because literally right before we jump jumped on here, I was like trying to craft this tweet, and the words were not coming out right. And I was trying to get it, and I i kept writing it, and it was in my drafts for like an hour. And I kept going back and forth. I'm like, this is not coming out the way I want it to come out. So I was getting frustrated. But yeah, it's ah I know a tweet is just a stupid stupid thing. But um but yeah, I imagine a book's the same way, only more so.
00:28:47
Speaker
Yeah. And that's, and and there's something like I've, I've started several like novels and i've I've not finished one. That's, that's something that eludes me partly because it's just, you just have to do it. Um, and maybe you have to like, yeah, the idea that you have to fail at a lot of things before you do something good. I don't want to fail at a bunch of novels before I, you know, that's just, that's so much work. I'd rather fail at a bunch of little short stories or or poems or something. and And then, and then write a novel that That actually works the first time, but yeah, it can be frustrating. Well, have you failed enough yet at your short stories and articles yet? Or is it time to succeed with the novel or not yet? I think maybe maybe. Oh, that's awesome. yeah that well so I don't know who said it. ah what one of my One of our friends was talking about, I think it might've been Orson Scott Card.
00:29:45
Speaker
might have said something like you um yeah like I don't know if he was saying like don't don't start writing until you're 40 or you don't have anything to say until you're 40 like something like that just like you know the the amount of life experience that builds up um I'm like, oh well, perfect. I'm over 40. I can write now, you know. Yeah. But then there's also, uh, what was that quote from Cormac McCarthy, who was like, if you want to be a writer and artist now, you might as well just kill yourself. yeah Did you hear that quote from him? Yeah. So two there's two, uh, two pass there, but yeah.
00:30:25
Speaker
I haven't done the day job here yet, but yeah, no, I'm glad people people try it and don't kill themselves. So um well, eight thanks. This is a good one. And thanks for listening, everybody. This was a this is a fun one. We will ah um hopefully be back at it next week. We it's Christmas week. Last time we didn't have one. If we are able to get one up for you, we will. And um we will. Yeah. Hopefully see you guys all next week.
00:30:53
Speaker
Alright, we'll see ya. Thanks, Mike. There are only four things certain, since social progress began. That the dog returns to his vomit, that the sow returns to her mind, and the bird pulls Bandit's finger, goes wobbling back to the pie. And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins, when all men are paid for existing, and no man must pay for his sin,
00:31:23
Speaker
as surely as water will wet us as surely as fire will burn the gods of the copy