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Never Too Late: Doug Moffitt Comes Out At 84
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Think it's too late for you to come out? Have you ever let regret about the past get in the way of making empowering decisions for your future? We've all been there — but it's never too late to live your life authentically and intentionally.
This week, I sit down with Doug Moffitt, who began exploring his sexuality — and his authentic self — in his 80s. After a lifetime of repression, Doug followed a sudden impulse to attend a gay men’s tantra retreat… without telling his wife. What happened transformed his life, and he's so grateful he took the leap.
In this episode, we talk about:
– Coming out later in life (and what anxiety about being “too late” is really about)
– The moment everything clicked for Doug (a spiritual calling that he thankfully listened to)
– Navigating the gay world in a “second adolescence” at 84
– Consent, boundaries, and learning a whole new culture
– A powerful first tantric experience that opened something spiritual
– Letting go through sex, psychedelics, and self-acceptance
– Becoming “Doug 2.0” — bigger, freer, and more alive than ever before.
This is a unique, funny, and surprisingly moving conversation about authenticity, curiosity, and what can happen when you finally let yourself be who you are — at any age.
There are about 15 minutes of bonus content with Doug -- plus FULL VIDEO of this episode, where you can see his see-through black lace shirt -- on Patreon. Thank you for your support! www.Patreon.com/RobertBrooksCohen
Here's the video of Doug being suspended that he mentioned at the end (content warning: hooks in skin): https://www.instagram.com/p/DI2HkUvOUyJ/
Subscribe to my newsletter: https://www.robertbrookscohen.com/newsletter
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Last chance (for real this time) for free coaching intro sessions: https://calendly.com/robertbrookscohen/25-minute-free-intro-call
(Free sessions will be reduced to 10 min discovery calls in April 2026 -- intro sessions will be paid but discounted at that time.)
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction of Doug Moffat and Initial Connections
00:00:00
Speaker
Music
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello everyone, welcome to Two Bye Guys. I am here with a special guest today who I met recently at the HOW conference, ah the annual gathering for husbands out to wives.
00:00:25
Speaker
And I just was really fascinated by his story that he shared that weekend. And then we kind of set up a little oral history zoom, kind of like when I did my book and I was just really interested in people's stories and I wasn't sure why.
00:00:42
Speaker
And so we've been chatting and I thought his story would be an interesting one to share here for various reasons. it's It's both quite unique and also has many of the same themes that we have always talked about.
00:00:57
Speaker
ah Welcome to Two Bye Guys, Doug Moffat. Hello. Hi, Rob. And ah one of the things that you can either accept or deny is that I think I noted a similarity between your progress and mine. Mine's a little more condensed in time, but you talked about being sort of the straight guy. I don't mean straight in the gay sense. I mean, in the social sense and coming out and being now Rob doing the podcast and doing stand up comedy and all that stuff.
00:01:39
Speaker
haven't gotten there yet, but think i see I think I see the lever that made you interested in me, and that is a certain similarity.
00:01:50
Speaker
Ah, in other words, ah now that you've been thrust into the spotlight, you're quite
The Journey of Self-Discovery and Coming Out
00:01:56
Speaker
enjoying it. Is that what I'm hearing? Yes. i my My current analogy is I feel like a huge dahlia that is in full bloom And I'm just freaking loving it.
00:02:13
Speaker
Wow. Well, I've seen like so ah big changes in you even just since we met. And I know the whole trajectory is not even that much longer. But even when we met, you know, you agree agreed to talk to me and I agreed to let me record it. But I don't think we were at the place where you were going to share all of this with a national or international podcast audience. And then in the days leading up to this interview, you've been quite excited. If I can share that.
00:02:44
Speaker
Back in, I guess it was August of last year. I came out to my wife. That the first person that I actually came out. Well, there were a couple of other incidents.
00:02:57
Speaker
And I've come out to some close friends, you a handful. And there are people like you who became aware that I was gay despite me not having to slap a sticker on mine for it.
00:03:12
Speaker
And that's maybe 200 people. And now we're gonna do 8 billion. ha if If we're lucky. ah I hate to break it to you, but the listenership is not quite that universal yet. But you know, potentially, it's that there's potential audience everywhere. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Tell us ah just a little about yourself and what like why do you think I'm so interested in your story?
00:03:41
Speaker
Well, I think I broke that. i think that there, you haven't talked to me much about your trajectory. But i what I have heard, I think there are similarities. You've gone further and you've had a lot more time.
00:04:01
Speaker
oh But my guess is that just the fact that that I'm doing the same trajectory you did in a compressed space may be part of your interest.
00:04:14
Speaker
You know, I was I was the I was the nerd. I was the guy that you would find a cocktail party standing in the corner with a glass of bourbon and hoping everybody would ignore me.
00:04:26
Speaker
And now look, here am. Doug is is
00:04:36
Speaker
i'm finding him fun ah oh i I keep worrying that it I may be out of control, but nothing's come and smacked me in the face yet.
00:04:49
Speaker
We'll reign that in. ah You're right. Like that is, I mean, yes. What was interesting to me about your story is how similar it is to so many. And yet you're doing it at a different age than most people to put it bluntly. You're doing it when I think many people, if they hadn't done this exploration already,
00:05:11
Speaker
would probably just say, well, that's the end of that. It's too late.
Transformational Retreat and Lessons Learned
00:05:16
Speaker
And you're proving that it's never too late, which I love. So tell us a little about like the trajectory of when did you actually realize this and what was it like your whole life leading up till then?
00:05:30
Speaker
Share how old you are, if you don't mind. I'm 84. Yeah. You have touched yeah you you have touch a couple of the hot buttons and and The big one is i I'm not sure I've left myself enough space to make coming out worthwhile. um You know, I've done it and I'm out, but but I haven't got time to take advantage of that.
00:06:01
Speaker
So there are sort of two things, of one of which is can I reach out like, to individuals and and in in situations and
00:06:15
Speaker
make some contribution. And I'm hopeful that that's true. And the other is, can I grab some grand scheme and change the world?
00:06:26
Speaker
And I started out thinking, yeah, I'm going to more of those. And now I just maybe it's giving up, but I'm i'm sort of taking the tantric approach trying to just get blissful and not screw around with it too much ah I mean, you are healing the world simply by like ah embracing your authenticity and exploring these desires and the Tantra. Like even just being an example of that is going to ripple outwards. But yes, you're also on this podcast. Maybe there's more to do. And my, you know, my question to you, you know, you you said like, did I leave enough time to make it worth it to come out?
00:07:16
Speaker
I guess I would just ask, like so far since August, are you glad you came out? Oh, yeah. Why? Because I've stopped having that heavy weight to carry around.
00:07:35
Speaker
I've as I as as I said a moment ago, I feel like some huge florid flower that just is in full bloom.
00:07:47
Speaker
um And yeah that that weight of that I've carried around all these years just went away. Wow. And I feel bigger by about twice.
00:08:01
Speaker
And I don't mean that physically. I just mean I feel you know much much more comfortable in the space I'm in. And yeah, I'm glad.
00:08:15
Speaker
Beautiful. Beautiful. and let rook Rob, limit let me let me do something for you. And that is, I have not had anything evil happen to me.
00:08:28
Speaker
i i've gotten I've gotten into, in particular, one sort of tangle at a retreat. I did something that apparently you're not allowed to do in a gay men's retreat.
00:08:43
Speaker
I said to one guy, I really like the other guy's body. And apparently it's objectification. And I never heard the word before.
00:08:57
Speaker
and And, you know, did that that sort of blew up the retreat for a whole day. Just the one comment. Gee, he's got a great body. Those were those words.
00:09:09
Speaker
And, you know, we had a little meeting the next day around the campfire. And we one of the topics was Doug. and his doing that. Everybody in the whole retreat was like, you stupid fuck. and hide And I still don't understand that. I would have thought that a game ends retreat saying to one guy, the other guy's got a great body would be the right thing to do.
00:09:39
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Well, it's it's interesting you bring that up, and I want to talk about this retreat and tell the story from the beginning. It is interesting you're going right there, because what I can see in you is it is a bit of you know nervousness about how to enter this gay lifestyle after so many years, and not knowing some of the norms and kind of putting your foot in your mouth completely.
00:10:05
Speaker
you know in terms of the culture at this retreat, whatever happened, I don't know. um And so you're in a you're you're almost in your second adolescence, which many people experience when they come out later in life.
00:10:19
Speaker
It's just you're doing it at 84. Yeah, yeah. yeah yeah yeah i mean, thank you, doctor. I mean, yeah you hit it squarely. i There's a learning curve.
00:10:32
Speaker
I have used the terms I'm the oldest guy in the room and that and I am a baby about the norms of the environment I'm in.
00:10:48
Speaker
So yeah weird things happen. and i I don't mind that. It's just that when when the results get a little ugly, then yeah i make Yeah, it makes sense. Sometimes ah the learning, you know, happens in a real context and there's like, you know, harm that happens and to be managed and held accountable. So tell us, ah let's let's start with this retreat, like tell everyone about what this retreat was, how you signed up for it. And if my memory serves me, like,
00:11:24
Speaker
this was your own coming out to your wife happened maybe after this or tell us about how that all happened. Okay. you asked You asked me before and I'm going to double back if you don't mind.
00:11:39
Speaker
Please. And that is I knew as every bad or gay guy does at about age 12 that something was little weird about me. ah You know, I'm i'm sneaking in at age 12 or 13 to sleazy magazine stores and finding men's physique magazines up in back corner.
00:12:03
Speaker
But if you will allow me, I'll comment that back then there wasn't much about being gay or being homosexual or whatever you I mean, the words were homosexual, faggot, queer, and there's probably one other.
00:12:21
Speaker
And it was very, very hidden. So I didn't know I was homosexual. I thought I just had this weird side gig that I did.
00:12:32
Speaker
And I sort of played that game quite successfully for years. I mean, i nobody, nobody in high school or junior high school called me a faggot or homosexual or whatever.
00:12:48
Speaker
I just I've been successful in my life in appearing to be straight. And that carried all the way up. ah And, you know, had some, you know, really neat weekends with guys, but, you know, it's still, it's, oh, this is my side hustle, you know, it's not, oh, freak, I'm homosexual.
00:13:12
Speaker
It's like, oh, I like guys, and you know, every once in while we do this thing. ah So every once in a while, like, when you were what age were you doing, exploring that throughout your life?
00:13:25
Speaker
Yeah, yeah i didn't I didn't really get physical with anybody until I was in college. ah ah And then was it consistent through your life or was it like mostly when you were younger and then you got married and it changed? or No, actually, it just hung on. It's something that I did infrequently, but loved doing, you know, and I'd get together with a guy on the weekend and really But I still, you know, denial is a big word, I suppose, but it wasn't a process of going, I'm gay, but I'm not going to tell anybody. It was that I really didn i didn't admit to myself and I didn't didn't really understand that that I was homosexual. It was this side
The Retreat Experience and Personal Growth
00:14:19
Speaker
hustle thing. yeah and And I really, really believed that. I mean,
00:14:25
Speaker
The day that I got married, if you'd asked me if I was homosexual, I would have said no. I got this little thing going on the side, but no, I'm not. And I've really carried that on through my life. Okay, let me break from that.
00:14:42
Speaker
break from that Well, wait, before you break from that, can I ask you a question? Sure. Like, how do you view your sexuality now? You said gay multiple times. You did throw in a bi in there.
00:14:57
Speaker
what How do you, you know, categorize it if you can? oh
00:15:05
Speaker
I mean, the show's called Two Bi Guys. I better call myself bi or we're going to be stronger. you certainly do not have to call yourself bi. We've expanded beyond the bi now. Okay.
00:15:20
Speaker
I think the answer is that. but But being bi as any other human characteristic is ah is a bell curve. Uh-huh.
00:15:34
Speaker
And I don't know where I am on that. I mean, I haven't,
00:15:41
Speaker
I got it. You know, when I go to the gym, which I do two or three days a week, there are women praying around in these tight leggings.
00:15:53
Speaker
And I got to tell you, there's some answers there that are worth, know, metals. And, and I,
00:16:02
Speaker
My tongue's hanging out about that as much as you as it is about the guys with the muscles and the, you know. Okay. well i i and You probably, somewhere along the line, brought the idea of being buy up and and and I buy it.
00:16:20
Speaker
I think that's where Interesting. me Interesting. But as you're mostly, most of the desires or currently, are they mostly directed towards men? Yes, absolutely. yeah ah i mean I mean, I really wonder what would happen if I got myself in a position where I could actually have physical sex with a woman.
00:16:46
Speaker
I think I'd go for it. I think we had to do it. and And if you want to share, what was your intimacy and relationship with your wife like? Or what is it like? or was it was it was It was fine. It was great. It was adventurous at the beginning. And it has beaded out in nothing.
00:17:03
Speaker
worth before and We've been doing this for a long time. So we just don't have sex anymore. Oh, world. Don't hear that. but But I did answer your question.
00:17:15
Speaker
Okay. so So the deal is that i have to I have to try to understand what I am abstractly. ah And I really know that it's stronger toward guys. i mean, you know, when I was born, I watched gay porn. Come on.
00:17:40
Speaker
But where would it go if I actually had the opportunity to have sex with a girl, with a woman, I think I'd be happy to do it.
00:17:51
Speaker
yeah I mean, I think I would happy. There's no retreat for that. know that and that There is not any retreat. BFF. Tell me about it if you know about it. BFF, BFF, come to the next BFF.
00:18:05
Speaker
Oh, okay. That's a long trip. There's an coming up about that.
00:18:21
Speaker
Okay, so you were going to say something else, or I want to hear about the retreat, if you remember your other thought. oh I don't, but you you are you your fascination about sort of how I fell out it seems to be centered around Easton Mountain. Okay. Well, it's because I love Easton Mountain. So when I found out it happened there, I was amazed.
00:18:45
Speaker
It's a very spiritual place and this is spiritual story, but also i just found it, you you know, Well, I'll let you tell it, but the fact that this was your first experience and you just kind of dove in the deep end. I mean, I think there's a movie in it. I think we got to make a movie about it.
00:19:05
Speaker
You keep saying that. Who's going to star in Robert Redford? No. hi fines subli I sort of had a had a speech put together about this. I was i was watching some gay porn.
00:19:21
Speaker
There's a guy... Davey Wavy makes the best gay porn in the business. And I was watching one of his things. And when it was over in the come shots are done, came, up came, up came a, uh, an advertisement for a thing called devotion, which was a five day men's retreat at Eastern mountain, which is for those of you who don't know gay a gay resort, if you can pop call it that, north of Troy, New York.
00:19:56
Speaker
And the the announced themes were Tantra and BDSM. Well, I have some clue about what BDSM already did.
00:20:10
Speaker
And I had, I didn't even, I'd never seen the word Tantra before. And something happened in my head. And I said, I got to go there.
00:20:22
Speaker
Hmm. I'm completely in the closet. Nobody in the world knows I'm gay. Wow. And suddenly thing hit in my head.
00:20:34
Speaker
But I was a little worried about it. And the worry was that I could physically keep up with the thing for five days. And the other was that I really didn't want this 83-year-old guy to screw it up for other people starting to get in the way.
00:20:53
Speaker
So I wrote to Davey and emailed to Davey and told him that, and he came back with a really lovely email response that said, you've got to do this. It could be transformative for you.
00:21:08
Speaker
He actually used that word. And my only worry for you is that the property is quite hilly and you might have trouble doing that. Well, we solved that.
00:21:20
Speaker
Everybody else. walked up and down the mountain and I drove up and the mountain. So that was the end of that problem. And so I said, okay, I'm going. And I lied to my wife.
00:21:32
Speaker
I told her I was going out there to help an acquaintance rewire his summer house. And i and i and i left I left a book on house wiring where she could see it for a few days.
00:21:46
Speaker
um Smart. And off I went. Cool. intended Tell me when you want a break. But I was driving up to New York through a way.
00:21:58
Speaker
Yeah. And I had left getting there to way too late, as I always do. And so I'm driving fast. And every time I get to an exit, I say, what the hell am I doing? I have no idea what I'm getting into.
00:22:14
Speaker
And I better turn around at the sex and go home. And I just didn't get it done. Wow. So I went. So I wound up at the hilly driveway going up into Easton Mountain.
00:22:25
Speaker
And regrettably, I didn't have any idea what the layout of the thing was. So the the first thing I got through was a sign that said parking.
00:22:38
Speaker
So I said, okay, I got that and drove into this space, got my cane out and started to plop down the hill. And by this time, it's 10 of five. And I thought I was due there at five.
00:22:53
Speaker
But turns out that the guy who was leading it thought I was due there at 430. I got to the facility at 10 to 5. By the time I finally get all in, it's 10 after 5.
00:23:08
Speaker
They're in the third building called the Temple, which looks like a New England Methodist church with those people. And they are just closing up.
00:23:19
Speaker
on this on the typical thing of you get in the middle of the circle, tell everybody who you are, where you're from, why you're there, what you hope to gain, and then we'll all have a group hug and then we'll do the next guy.
00:23:31
Speaker
And they were were doing the last guy. So I am by this time standing with my back to the double doors at the far end of the room and I haven't announced myself yet.
00:23:44
Speaker
And the the leader said, ah We're done, and we got everybody, and I sort of from the doorway went, yeah, one more.
00:23:56
Speaker
And the first thing that happened to me is now I'm in the middle of the scope of this this circle, and I know what it's about. I know the things you have to talk about. So I did the the Why I'm Here, What I'm Doing speech, and everybody gave him me a group hug. What did you say? What did you say?
00:24:15
Speaker
All right. I can do that. If you remember. Yeah, sort of. I said. I'm 83 years old.
00:24:28
Speaker
I'm I'm not out. I wasn't at the time. ah I'm married. I've been married for 55 years. I'm here to try to see if I can figure out what the gay community is like, what what it is like to be among a group of guys that I know are all gay, how they interact with one another and how I should interact with them. You know, we talked a moment or two ago, there are tank traps in that, I have found. And ah
00:25:04
Speaker
what am I hoping to do? And that and i remember saying, figure out what I'm going to do with the rest of my life. Yeah. I included that phrase in in my announcement.
00:25:17
Speaker
and The rest of it, you sort of prosaic, but yeah so i was i was you know I was very much there. And this is like the first words out of my mouth in a gay environment in my entire life.
00:25:34
Speaker
ram crazy yeah It really was. You went from an internet ad to not telling anyone to just plop yourself in the middle of this group. and like i mean I have more questions about the weekend, but like what did it do for you to be amongst gay men for this weekend? like How did that experience change you? and Then we can get into the details.
00:26:02
Speaker
I really have to go to the side a little bit and in try to Doug 2.0 started to evolve there. um I would have told you that I would be hiding in the corner going, no, no, no, no. I wouldn't keep my clothes on. No, no, no. Don't touch me.
00:26:21
Speaker
All that shit. And it turned out, if I may, that I was sort of leading the gang. ah ah You know, it's time to get your clothes off. Oh, yes. for something You know, um it's time to get physical with BDM toys.
00:26:42
Speaker
I would have thought that doing the things that we did the those few days would require a lot of me going, got to get myself organized and let me do that. And there was none. yeah Why do you think, why do you think you had that expectation and why do you think you actually ended up just jumping right in?
00:27:08
Speaker
Okay, doctor, tell me why. ha When I think about that and I think about, you know, what has evolved as Doug 2.0, I don't know. I don't know.
00:27:21
Speaker
ge I mean, I really, really don't understand it. And I'm very comfortable
Spiritual Awakening and Exploration
00:27:27
Speaker
with it. And, you know, I'm doing the Shrevee podcast. And something just clicked somewhere in my head when I saw that ad.
00:27:38
Speaker
And it it it has driven the whole arc of my my evolution since then. Yeah. Divine download, divine inspiration.
00:27:51
Speaker
God, yes. I mean, if I believed in that kind of thing, yeah. but but you know but But the thing that makes me really feel weird about that is that as it was going on, I had no...
00:28:08
Speaker
feeling of driving myself to do it or showing off or any of those things. It was just, okay, it's time to get your aspect. ah ahha I want to hear, I want to hear about the details of that, but also like, you know, you keep mentioning Doug 2.0.
00:28:26
Speaker
How does Doug 2.0 feel like in your body? How does, how do, how do you feel now? And and if you can compare that to Doug 1.0. I love it. i love it
00:28:40
Speaker
I mean, it's it's this bigger, lighter person and a half that just doesn't have the feeling of of being bound up tight the way Doug Paul one point of did.
00:28:57
Speaker
I just like, you know, I've said it I feel like some sort of flo huge flower that's, that's ah that's that it that is exaggeration, but it's on the,
00:29:11
Speaker
have i really i really feel different. I really feel just bigger, opener. Lovely. Thank you.
00:29:21
Speaker
love it.
00:29:33
Speaker
So now tell us a little about some of the tantric or other sexual or intimate experiences you had at that retreat. And then just briefly, and then we'll move on to other stuff.
00:29:45
Speaker
Okay. There are three things that happened that I think are sort of worth reporting. and the in this And the first one is we had this little exercise right after the group hug thing.
00:30:04
Speaker
and it was pairing up and completely clothed and just sort passing your hands over the guy and and looking him in the eye and feeling what his body looked like.
00:30:21
Speaker
And got lucky. We did three of them. And I got lucky, and and the three guys that I got to do it with, turned out to be important in the retreat in odd ways.
00:30:37
Speaker
But the but the the event that that sort of was weird, and it's been very important to me, is the first guy said, don't touch my face.
00:30:52
Speaker
That was his is in thing. you know What's it called? Boundary. Boundary, yeah, okay.
00:31:01
Speaker
And we got going and we got, you know, I'm messing around with him, just feeling him out, feeling his hair, feeling his ears. And he seemed to soften up as as as one does in these these environments.
00:31:17
Speaker
And I thought, I think I got him. i think I think he's going be happy. that And I just ran my fingers down the sides of his jaw.
00:31:30
Speaker
And he didn't do anything in particular. And I thought, okay, I've learned something there. Boundaries are set, but that but if you get into it, they can flex.
00:31:45
Speaker
a that You actually learned something else later. Well, three three days later, I was talking to the facilitator and and he said, oh, no, boundaries are rock hard. You can't yeah mess with them.
00:32:00
Speaker
Violate them. And the the guy that I had had that little episode with was standing about four or five feet away. And I said, no, i got i got through his boundary and he seemed to be fine it.
00:32:13
Speaker
And I called him over. And so the three of us are there. And I said, I did that thing. You said not to touch your face.
00:32:23
Speaker
And it felt like we were good. And I felt that I could you know sort sort of get The two of us would get something out of me just sort edging into your rabbit.
00:32:35
Speaker
And he looked at me and he looked at me and said, oh, I just hate him now. So that was my first lesson about good la out gay conduct.
00:32:48
Speaker
Good lesson. Yeah. Well, and good for you to be open to that accountability and hearing him out and having that discussion. yeah Well, yeah, and it it did hit it it It was, for me, it was an introduction to the fact that there are things in the gay community that you got to pay attention to because they're a little different than what's outside.
00:33:13
Speaker
ah Well, and it I mean, it's what it speaks to me a little bit is like, you know, in a sex party atmosphere space, consent and boundaries are, to quote what you said, rock hard all the time. yeah But there is a sense in like heterosexual dating and like feeling things out with a woman in the way that I was brought up where it's like you it was more of a thing to just kind of feel it out and not be explicit and I hate like looking back I hate that all of us were brought up to do it that way I wish I could have talked about it more but I did feel like you don't talk about it that's not sexy you just something energy and you feel it out
00:34:01
Speaker
It's something you do with your fingers. you know Yeah. And they'll say no if they don't want it. But actually that's not, you know, gay men have a culture that is very consent forward for various reasons. And it is a very useful thing to learn no matter where you go. Cause then you learn that like,
00:34:21
Speaker
the more you talk, the the more intimacy and connection there can be. You know, he if you had actually, so you learned something from this, it's great. But if you had said, can i run my hand on the heads of your face's I think there's a fear that that would kill the moment, but actually it can enhance the moment regardless of his answer, yes or no.
00:34:45
Speaker
You know, he might've said no, but actually can you do this thing that we didn't talk about? or Or maybe he would suffer, you know, who knows, but the the talking about it is is a good lesson.
00:34:57
Speaker
You've sort of edged into something that I think I've learned, and that is you've got to keep the vocal channel open. And i was sort of I sort of grew up in a culture where you don't talk, you just get your hands and your fingers and your dick in and do it. right And you don't you don't talk and right and and And it's been I haven't had enough time, enough opportunities to to really make that work. But I understand it.
00:35:31
Speaker
And and i think you would I think I think I got it. good and And the weird thing about Eastern Mountain was the first 30 seconds of my first exercise was that, you know, 30 minutes. But but I blew that norm. yeah know i I knew I'd done it, but I thought it was okay.
00:35:59
Speaker
And three or four days later, get smacked in the face with it. And now I understand And I'm good with it. Okay. ah Things that ah that happened at Eastern Mount.
00:36:12
Speaker
Yeah. Tell us about the Tantra where you kind of lost yourself. That was interesting. That's that's where I was going. ah the The first full day, we had this sort of side meetings about, you know, what's going to happen that day and and what to expect. and And the guy, of the leaders was doing our our group and he got into what is Tantra.
00:36:39
Speaker
And Doug is sitting there going, what? What? What? Because, you know, as as as I've said casually, I never did anything spiritual in my life.
00:36:53
Speaker
And I mean, not ever anything. And suddenly this thing started to happen. And by the time the retreat was over, i had this weird feeling that they'd opened the door about a quarter of an inch and I could see a bright light behind it, but didn didn't know what was going on. si And you know, I've got a pile of tantra books on my desk down about six inches high. I've been- working on it ever since.
00:37:20
Speaker
oh So the the deal was we did these side things and we had breakfast and then you know, and I got to tell everybody else, Eastern Mountain is a great facility for this sort of thing. They've got this great room that's about 40 by 60.
00:37:39
Speaker
ah And so we all got into there and they put some mats on the floor and they paired us up And as a side statement, they were very careful to pair us, not let us pick somebody.
00:37:57
Speaker
And in that taught me a lot because I would have, as everybody else in the room would have picked a guy by appearance or some other, you know, how and I learned, you know, at one point I was working with a ah really overweight guy.
00:38:18
Speaker
He's on the massage table and I'm trying to give him massage. And when I approached this situation, I thought it's going to be ugly. And he was into massage.
00:38:30
Speaker
And it was like just this thing, you know, every time I do something with my hands, you could just feel it. And the fact that he was overweight, just sort of done thing. And so there was a there was a real learning curve in that.
00:38:49
Speaker
physical out physical body ain't the thing cool and and that came along but i want to get back that i want to get back tell us about tantra yeah tell us about tantra come on we're dying to hear no i don't want you to die so shut up
00:39:13
Speaker
Anyhow, I'm sorry. We haven't even talked about your shirt yet. Come on. Okay. We'll get there. you but You're going to explain the shirt. it will look when when we When we get to to the late night activities in Baltimore.
00:39:29
Speaker
a ha Anyhow, the first group exercise that we did is they paired us up and they said, get in the middle of one of these mats and and sort of introduce each other again and some things, establish boundaries, decide how much of your clothes you're going to take off and talk about what you're going to do to give each other pleasure.
00:39:57
Speaker
And so that my partner and I, and I'm sorry, i don't even I didn't even catch his name. It's okay. We should keep his name out of it.
00:40:08
Speaker
Well, see, now you're putting boundaries on. um I'm having so much fun here. I love it. oh So this guy and I got in the middle of the of the mat and he said his boundaries, he always said he was going to take all his clothes off except his briefs.
00:40:31
Speaker
And his boundary is he didn't want my hands inside the briefs. And so we talked about, you know, just we're going to try to give each other pleasure. and and He had already figured out that I have some agility problems.
00:40:48
Speaker
So he said, do you want to do this standing up or on the mat? And I said, well, I think we'll do better for lying down.
00:40:59
Speaker
And he said, can you, can you get down on the mat? And I went and he's one down and the two of us got just cuddling.
00:41:12
Speaker
And just doing, you know, i guess you call it soft massage. The idea of giving each other pleasure. And we had, I think 20 minutes to do it.
00:41:29
Speaker
And we were some seconds in and I've said three seconds and that's ridiculous, but less than a minute in my memory. And suddenly,
00:41:41
Speaker
The entire world fell away. All the noise, all the light, all the people standing around staring. Everyone's watching you, right? In a Yeah. A dozen people standing around watching.
00:41:55
Speaker
And it just all fell away. And the universe became our two bodies and our four hands. m And when they they had a little handbell that they rang at the end 20 minutes.
00:42:11
Speaker
And when they rang that, I literally had to swim up from 30 feet down. And suddenly, you know, I got to the surface and there all the noise and the people and the lights.
00:42:23
Speaker
And at that point I had never, you know, the thing about Tantra, we'd spent 10 minutes at the little meeting at the beginning, two or three weeks later I was reading one of these books and there's a chapter on how to do a two person tantric massage.
00:42:50
Speaker
And it's, you know, find a nice place to take you what you can be on, get to the room temperature and color and and lighting comfortable.
00:43:00
Speaker
And they want you to put on mom tantrum music and having a tantric art on the walls and all that. The point is, you know, get the two of you down on this comfortable surface and just pleasure each other. And I went, what the hell have I been there?
00:43:19
Speaker
You know, and and that's when I connected back and and realized that that first exercise had been tantric experience.
00:43:30
Speaker
Mm hmm. Now, maybe 20 minutes of. Yeah. I had no lever. to call that tantric when it happened.
00:43:40
Speaker
Right, right. Just two or three, you know. But it sounds like that experience opened something up in you and an interest in, like this has been, of all the things we've talked about, an interest that you've bought a bunch of books about and done a deeper dive into and it's calling to you in some way, in a spiritual way.
00:44:01
Speaker
Yeah, and this you know, Dutton 1.0, as I said, i didn't have a spiritual bone in his body. and and And, you know, I was up of the group that says, I haven't got time to waste on that.
00:44:20
Speaker
Right. I'm going to be a practical human being. Good for you. No, I mean, that's that's the way I landed led my life. And then now I'm 2.0 and I got this figured out.
00:44:35
Speaker
And I don't know that you can figure out Tantra, but a reading the books, trying to figure it out. It's never too late to try and to try to find your connection or spirituality, whatever whatever it is, whatever you use to connect.
00:44:53
Speaker
It doesn't really matter how much time there is left to explore it. No, no, no. If you can get there, it's ah it's amazing. that what What I have gotten to, Rob, is... Yeah.
00:45:06
Speaker
ah Just Tantra is, you know, as it is done in American gay society, it's tantric sex and that's all.
00:45:19
Speaker
But Tantra is this huge universe enveloping, you know, there is there is this thing called the universal light and that is the universe as we understand The tantric thing is you and I are part of that.
00:45:40
Speaker
We are clones of that, which means that you are perfect and I am perfect. And I'm trying to get my head around that.
00:45:50
Speaker
Beautiful. Yeah. yeah he reach I'm trying to get my head around Beautiful. Beautiful. Well, and I mean, i have a few more questions and we have to move on in a minute. But I know that like, for me, this brings up my psychedelic journeys, which feel very related to my queerness. And when you talk about Tantra, I you know i know we've also discussed...
00:46:14
Speaker
And your interest in psychedelics as well, which like, we don't have time to go into those stories today, but is there anything about your interest in that that's related to this spiritual practice of finding yourself and exploring Tantra?
00:46:29
Speaker
Do you feel it's connected to? Wow. You, you, you have done some things to me. No, I'm i'm serious. You've you've gotten a ahead of me.
00:46:43
Speaker
Because you've been there for a while. ah Well, you know, when you talk about the world falling away and it's only our two bodies and we had to swim back to the surface, I mean, that's like what a psychedelic experience can feel like. I mean, you had one without medicine.
00:47:01
Speaker
Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You asked that question and I hadn't thought about it. hadn't made that connection. But you've you've put that in my head now, and I'm going to have to work it out, whether whether my interest in in in in psychedelics is about spirituality or whether it's just, let's see if we can get off on that. um Has anything about your your identity or queerness come up when you've taken psychedelics?
00:47:36
Speaker
No. No, i mean, I've taken psychedelics in in a situation where everybody's in the cuddle puzzle two using your hands. That's not how I do it.
00:47:50
Speaker
Well, whatever. In the resorts I've been, there's sort of like limits so much you can. Yeah. Good. But accept the the the drugs to remove your limits or or certainly push them back.
00:48:09
Speaker
Boy, you know, what mean I love the question you have asked. And I just, I'm not prepared with an answer. And okay I mean, I don't even have an answer inside my head.
00:48:22
Speaker
Well, I'm enjoying seeing you process this question. There's clearly a lot there. We're learning from watching you process. Well, hope. almost Anyhow, look, come back to me and in you the next podcast. and and Yes.
00:48:39
Speaker
i'll I'll try to have an answer for you then. But right You can come back and we'll check in on all this stuff in a few months. Those two things, the my interest in tantric spirituality, which I'm stumbling around in this weird weird world, is one thing. But the drug thing is so far has been separate for me.
00:49:03
Speaker
okay It's been a take your very tightly controlled life and let go it for an hour or two. Where is it? Well, there you go. i i think you just answered my question because that makes so much sense. Take your tightly controlled, tightly wound life and let go. And that's what psychedelics can do.
Sharing the Journey and Future Aspirations
00:49:28
Speaker
That's what coming out seems to have done. i mean, you described Doug 1.0 to Doug 2.0. It is kind of like letting go of all that tightly woundness by by coming out and exploring these things. So maybe they haven't been directly connected, but there's certainly an overlap in what they're doing in your lives.
00:49:47
Speaker
in your life. yeah There's clearly a parallel. Yeah. Yeah. And and and your question is is sort of, does one directly drive the other?
00:49:57
Speaker
And and you you you you shocked me or are are caught me off guard with with the question. Yeah, but I like seeing the connection. There's ah there's clearly ah overlap or a connection. Yeah.
00:50:10
Speaker
so okay Yeah, something something is currently happening inside my brain. and Okay, we'll check back in as you process. I always tell my coaching clients, like, stuff comes up during a session that that only gets processed afterwards. So we'll have to check back in with you.
00:50:25
Speaker
I'll put that on the to-do stack and we'll see what happens. Okay, okay, okay.
00:50:38
Speaker
Thank you all for listening to this episode of Two Bye Guys with Doug Moffitt. Hope you enjoyed it. It's a little different than most of them. There's a bit more coming up here, but there's also about 15 minutes of bonus content with Doug available only on Patreon. There are two sections of bonus content. The first is about how we met, which was at the HOW annual gathering.
00:51:00
Speaker
HOW stands for Husbands Out to Wives. It's a lovely organization. i am now on the board as the gathering guy, so I will be planning the next gathering in San Francisco in October of 2026. You should come join how if you are a husband who's out to your wife. If that describes you, you should check out this bonus content. We talked about what that gathering meant for Doug. He actually didn't have a very huge or deep experience the way some other guys did, except for a few important moments that were pretty interesting.
00:51:32
Speaker
And then there's another section of bonus content where we talked about Doug's black lace shirt that he is wearing. You can also see the full video on Patreon so you can see the black lace shirt he's wearing. It's a bit see-through. It also stems back to the How conference. We met this hot bartender on a night out who was wearing a shirt like that and Doug wanted to try it out for himself. So check out patreon.com slash Robert Brooks Cohen. You can see Doug in his shirt and hear the whole story as well as hear more about how. And now we will pick it up with the tail end of our how conversation plus a couple other things with Doug. Enjoy.
00:52:19
Speaker
There are many guys who are, you know, in how is guys who are married to women, husbands out to wives. And so whatever they end up exploring or not, you know, many remain monogamous.
00:52:33
Speaker
Many are in relationships where this doesn't become like a a realized part of their lives. Maybe they're out to their wives and that's as far as it goes. And a lot of the guys just don't have a space to talk about it.
00:52:46
Speaker
And they live in certain parts of the country. And so this is like, their one space to talk in person. And it just speaks to how powerful that can be. Because when you're not getting it elsewhere, it can it's just so validating and affirming to be in physical space with people. It sounds like you are doing that. You've been to four retreats now. So you're continuing that exploration and finding that elsewhere, which is beautiful. And I'm curious about your you had weren't out to your wife at the time of how, but you've come out there her since like when and how did that happen?
00:53:22
Speaker
Okay, I went to a small retreat in July of last year down in West Virginia. And there was a guy there and he was I've come to the conclusion that there are some people that are just a complete comfortable in their skin as gay people.
00:53:41
Speaker
and that they sort radiate something in the atmosphere. you they talk You talk about a guy that walks into the room and the whole environment sort of seems to warm up. Well, there was one of those guys there.
00:53:57
Speaker
And he was an accomplished masseur and a and he he's just finished his training as a gay counselor. And he and I just hooked up and the early on.
00:54:14
Speaker
And then we had plant medicine evening and the next day, i've heard this thing about neuroplasticity that you you sort of open suggesting in the next couple of days after plant medicine.
00:54:33
Speaker
Well, the next day he said, Doug, I want to talk to you. Oh, what? And we went and sat by the dining table and he said, you're going to sit and write a letter to your wife.
00:54:49
Speaker
And my first reaction is fuck no. But he said, yeah yeah, I want you to sit and empty today and write a letter your wife. I don't remember.
00:55:01
Speaker
So I put it off and put it off and everybody else went to bed and I got my journal out and you know, the the issues that I thought I understood about coming out my wife.
00:55:12
Speaker
And the next day, he got together with me again and said, you wrote the letter? And I said, yeah. I tried to hand it to him. He said, well, i don't want to read it.
00:55:24
Speaker
I just want you to have concretely gotten what's in your head about what these are down a paper. And the other thing that he did on that second day was really important to me.
00:55:42
Speaker
And that is, he looked at me at one point and he said, Doug, you're not gay. And I went, what? it And he said, and I'm not gay.
00:55:53
Speaker
And I went, and I don't know where this is going now. And his point was, don't try to figure out a way to make Doug fit some mold that you think of as being a gay persona.
00:56:11
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And there is in the gay community now this really sort of whatever phrase, develop your authentic self.
00:56:22
Speaker
And I think that's very, yeah sort of if I were trying to come up with a phrase, it would be the real me. Yeah. ah Authentic self.
00:56:33
Speaker
um but yeah Many labels, one concept. Beautiful. I love that. but i love that.
00:56:44
Speaker
Okay, let me finish up here. Yes, please. and and this is this This is now late July.
00:56:53
Speaker
And I don't know whether he did it in a Machiavellian I'm going to get this guy ah you know wound up so that he comes out to his wife or whether he was just being him and in his counselor thing the day after the plant medicine.
00:57:13
Speaker
I just don't know which it was. And it really matter because the result would have been the same. My birthday is August 7th.
00:57:25
Speaker
Then I came out to my wife. So it's like week, 10 days after this conversation. Would I have done it otherwise? Fuck alone knows. I know.
00:57:37
Speaker
m But it's I got it done, and it turned out to be a nod event. How'd she react? Not much. wait The whole conversation we had over bottle of champagne, and it lasted a few minutes, and it was, what's the word?
00:57:59
Speaker
get it It happened at a sort of a cocktail conversation level. Uh-huh. And it ended with her saying, oh, I've got some issues about this.
00:58:12
Speaker
And that's back August of last year, and we have not talked about since. Oh, interesting. Which really, really is a bad thing. Well, maybe you can share this podcast with her and it'll open the door to a conversation.
00:58:26
Speaker
So she doesn't know you've been going to these other retreats? Oh, you've told her and she doesn't ask about it? Or what's the deal?
00:58:36
Speaker
It started out being covered up somehow, but the last couple of retreats, said, I'm going on a retreat. I mean, relatively open about it. and She doesn't want to hear about it. so Okay. A little don't ask, don't tell.
00:58:51
Speaker
Okay. yeah that that Thank you. Sorry. I'll check in with you on that one again next time we talk too.
00:59:08
Speaker
My computer's about to die. There's construction on my roof. So we're going to have to call it there today. But I'll give you the final word. But thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your story with everyone. Who knows who it will touch and for what. reason. um For me, it was just like, look at what you can dive into and explore. It's never too late to have these experiences and be your real self or whatever the version you want to call it is. Any final thoughts before we wrap?
00:59:43
Speaker
Yeah. Have I got a minute? Sure. One minute. um after the After the Eastern Mountain ah retreat,
00:59:54
Speaker
I came back to Philadelphia area and and I've got a lot of piercings and I sort of was in with my piercer and and we've been talking about doing a body suspension for couple of years.
01:00:06
Speaker
I've done about four or five. And I was in in his shop one day and I said, you know, we've been mouthing about this. When are we going to do it? And I assumed it was a big deal. You had to go up and hang a pulley in a tree and all that.
01:00:22
Speaker
And he said, He looked at his watch and he said, how about two o'clock? And I went, what? it And he said, yeah, yeah. He lives about a block and a half from the from the shop and he's got a thing in his backyard, which is like a giant version of a kid's A-frame outdoor thing, except it's got a pulley in the middle.
01:00:46
Speaker
And so about two hours later, i was hanging from this thing. twisting in the wind and a
01:00:59
Speaker
talking to my little coterie of six or seven people that are sitting there, except that, of course, one of them was streaming it on Instagram. You got a lot of views.
01:01:12
Speaker
I got 800,000 views. aha And that's when I sort of went, oh, my God, you know, this thing breads a whole lot more than i thought it did because 800,000 views. There's this old guy swinging around the wind.
01:01:31
Speaker
What's the moral of this story? why did you Why did you bring it up? I brought it up because you know you've talked about, we both talk about where this podcast is going to spread.
01:01:48
Speaker
And I don't know what your experience is. I'm sure you've got statistics about your previous shows. but
01:01:57
Speaker
The internet to me is you know sort of a fascinating place, which has turned out to be not at all what I expected when I first met it back in the green screen days.
01:02:12
Speaker
I thought it was going to be an ah sort of where scientists get together and and talk and it turns out, nah, not all that.
01:02:23
Speaker
So I don't know point is here, but but Yeah. Moral of the story? Moral the story is- It will spread. This will spread far and wide, potentially. When you put yourself out there, unexpected things can happen. And when you don't put yourself out there, nothing happens.
01:02:40
Speaker
Right. And and the and and if you if you know you're doing it, as in this case, you should have some feeling about it, some weight about it. some yeah My line was,
01:02:55
Speaker
I'm going to do this podcast and I should feel uptight about it. And I don't even feel sweat with sweaty. Amazing. Yeah. I feel that in emailing you about this, it's actually been empowering for you and exciting and opening something up that we'll see what what that is over the next few weeks and months. But getting yourself to the place where you don't care if people see this stuff and hear this stuff is a is an amazing place to be at any point in your life.
01:03:26
Speaker
um And also the body modification stuff was on my list to talk about. We don't have time. I'm literally, my computer is about to die. I'm at 4%. But um i will I will link that video if you want in the show notes so people can see it. dude Are you okay with that?
01:03:42
Speaker
So if you want. yeah Yeah, yeah. I mean, okay so it's out there. Check the show notes. It's out there. It's public anyway. So you can see what Doug is talking about. and And he's into this body modification stuff, which might or might not be related to everything we've talked about. We'll cover it next time. but um And I hate to cut you off, but my computer's going to die. So thank you, Doug, for being here. Your story is lovely, and I'm glad we got to share it here. And we'll make a movie someday.
01:04:12
Speaker
Boy, you keep saying that, and don't
01:04:19
Speaker
know where you're going with it. We'll see. No promises in the movie industry. No promises. But I think it would be a good one. You're even the producer. You're down to 2%. Now what are you going to do?
01:04:30
Speaker
Thank you, Doug. I'm pressing stop. Thanks for being here. You're
01:04:39
Speaker
Two Bye Guys by One Bye Guy is produced and edited by me, Robert Brooks Cohen, and it was created by me and Alex Boyd. Our new logo art is by Caitlin Weinman. Our music is by Ross Minzer. help support this podcast, visit patreon.com slash robertbrookscohen. You'll get full video episodes, early access, and bonus content. Visit robertbrookscohen.com to learn more about my coaching, my book, and my stand-up comedy. And thanks for listening to Two Bye Guys by One Bye Guy.
01:05:07
Speaker
you