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Inside BFF: The Story Behind the Biggest Bi+ Play Party in the World (Part 3)
821 Plays6 days ago
Welcome to the final installment of my three-part series on BFF, the biggest, best, biannual, bisexual play party in Palm Springs.
Before we dive in, I share an important disclaimer: BFF isn't for everyone. While I've found it to be one of the most accepting, freeing, and healing communities I've ever experienced, it's also an intense, highly sexual environment. I talk about who it might be a great fit for, who it might not, and why I think it's important to know that going in.
Then you'll hear two final interviews recorded at the event, followed by an extended conversation with Brad and Tracy, the couple who have organized BFF for nearly a decade. We talk about how the event began, how it's evolved over the past 20 years, and why the sense of community has always mattered even more than the sex.
• Steve — Back for his second appearance on the podcast, Steve reflects on another BFF weekend, why saying "no" can strengthen connection, and how kink and impact play have become an important part of his journey.
• Drew — Drew shares his path through bisexuality, polyamory, and building relationships rooted in communication, honesty, and community. We also talk about coming out, finding your people, and why authentic connection matters more than simply having sex.
• Brad & Tracy — The longtime organizers of BFF share how they stumbled into the event 20 years ago, eventually took it over, and have worked to preserve its uniquely welcoming spirit. We also explore bisexual visibility, the evolution of the swinging community, and why spaces where people can fully be themselves are more important than ever.
(There's no video for this series, but the audio is definitely explicit.)
If you'd like to attend BFF, you can reach out directly to Brad at his profile "CUTEONES" on Kasidie, SDC or Lifetylelounge, or at "CUTEONES1" on SLS or Fetlife.
Learn more about HOE Weekend: https://hoeweekend.com/
75-minute initial deep-dive coaching session with Rob: https://calendly.com/robertbrookscohen/first-coaching-session-75-mins
Learn more at www.robertbrookscohen.com
Support this podcast: patreon.com/robertbrookscohen
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Transcript
Introduction to BFF Series
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello, everybody. Welcome to 2BuyGuys. I am Rob. I'm excited for this episode, part three of this three-part series on BFF, the Best Friends Fest.
00:00:26
Speaker
No, the Bi-F-Fest. You know what that means. This is explicit. I can say it. It's the Bi-Fuck-Fest. Whatever. Fuck it. Today I've got two more interviews left from the winter event this January, and then I have an extended interview with Brad and Tracy, who are the current organizers of BFF. This one was recorded a few months later. We'll spend most of the episode today with Brad and Tracy. I've been wanting to have them on for a while. So you'll hear about them and their lives and how they run the event and the history of the event and how it was kind of one of a kind when it started, but actually as of lately more and more things are popping up like it, which is wonderful. We can never have too much by community and by events. There's not enough. This is episode
Milestone and Future Plans
00:01:16
Speaker
8 of season 10. I can hardly believe it. We're almost at 100 episodes of this show.
00:01:23
Speaker
Crazy. I've got two more in the works and then stay tuned because I have big things planned for next season when we are into our second batch of 100 episodes. I don't want to share too much now.
00:01:35
Speaker
We'll see what happens, but I'm excited for where things are heading. on this podcast and in my coaching practice and in my life. I feel like I'm at a transition period, which I've been in many times, but this feels like another one. So thanks for being here for the ride. As always, if what you hear here resonates with you and you want to get in touch with me about coaching, I do individual and group coaching. If you're
Understanding BFF's Nature and Boundaries
00:02:00
Speaker
hearing this on the day it comes out, I've got a couple spots left in a group coaching cohort that begins this week, July eighth And if you're listening to this later, there will be more and more cohorts. The group work is so wonderful. I want to keep leaning into that.
00:02:14
Speaker
It's really magical. My website is robertbrookscohen.com. Okay, before we get into today's interviews, i do feel like I want to just put a disclaimer that maybe I should have put at the beginning of the BFF series. Maybe it's kind of baked in there, but...
00:02:32
Speaker
I've had some conversations recently and I want to be explicit about this, which is that BFF is not for everyone. You might not like it. As much as I like it and I feel that the bi community there is so strong and wonderful, it is first and foremost a sex event. It is a weekend-long play party. It is possibly the most intense extreme version of all this. And so anyone can obviously attend, but it does cater to people who will be into that. If you are more on the demisexual side, sapiosexual side, you may have a wonderful time there. But just as a disclaimer, you may have to navigate a hypersexual environment. And you might have to have strong boundaries. And it's a great place to practice that. But that said, if you are new to this scene, newish to the bi community, new to play parties in general, this may not be the best first step. There are other play parties that ease you into these things, that do group exercises, get to know you things, games. Like my friend Hannah from the first episode of this series has been organizing a play party in LA called by Sensual. And she really eases you in slowly, does icebreakers so that you can make connections before anyone takes their clothes off. There are different spaces within the loft where you can kind of hang out depending on how ready to play you are. And BFF is
Consent and Community at BFF
00:04:12
Speaker
kind of like jumping in the deep end.
00:04:14
Speaker
There could be over 200 people there at any given time. There is lots of play happening around you at all times. People may ask you to join them at any moment. And like I've discussed in some other episodes, you know, consent can operate differently in male-only spaces versus spaces with women. And when you go to gay spaces, it's often this nonverbal type of consent where people may reach out and touch and
00:04:47
Speaker
People will look into your eyes and give consent that way. I'm not saying, I'm not judging this or saying this is good or bad. It is just something to navigate. And it is a reality that exists in gay culture, in dark rooms, in masturbation parties that I've talked about. People aren't always coming up to you and saying, can I do this? Can I do that? The way I think is more common in spaces with women. And BFF is somewhat of a hybrid.
00:05:14
Speaker
You will find some of that verbal enthusiastic consent culture among some people. And sometimes among men and in playrooms, you will find the other type that is more common in gay spaces. And so it is important to know your boundaries and be comfortable enforcing those boundaries. I have found that people are friendly when you say no. Obviously, I said no many times during this BFF because I was celibate, but that was sort of an easier excuse. It can be difficult to say no when you feel pressure to play.
00:05:48
Speaker
or when you're just not into someone and you don't have the celibacy excuse. It can be awkward. I understand that. And so i just want to share this, that this is not for everyone. Maybe wade into the waters in different ways at different types of parties before this one and not everyone's experience.
00:06:08
Speaker
will will be as positive as mine or as positive as the ones I'm sharing in this episode. The vast majority of people have a wonderful time. Like I've said, the community is amazing. I really do feel like this is a certain type of bi-utopia where everyone is accepted and anything is possible. But utopia
Rob's Personal Experiences and Reflections
00:06:28
Speaker
looks different to different people. And so I just want you to be aware that if you're listening to three episodes about this and it's not totally resonating for you,
00:06:37
Speaker
That's okay. And that's normal. And i will talk about other stuff on this podcast soon. It's not all about sex. And in fact, some of what I've been thinking about and planning for next season is to share what I've learned about celibacy and about sexual energy and going to BFF and being celibate there.
00:06:58
Speaker
was a big part of my journey. i actually learned a lot from that, that you might not necessarily hear in these interviews. I'm still processing it and integrating it.
00:07:10
Speaker
And sex is wonderful. i think sex is great. I do not want to be celibate for my entire life. And yet, something about this experiment did teach me that there is a limit and there is a line where you want to be in alignment with yourself and you can go overboard with sexual energy. There are ways to overuse it or use it mindlessly or waste and spread that sexual energy instead of using it productively and transmuting it into your creative energy and life force. So these are all things that I'm thinking about. You know, I wouldn't want to spend my entire life the way BFF is, but it is also this wonderful container and sort of ceremony where the few times I've been, three times now...
00:07:57
Speaker
I go and have these peak experiences, a certain type of peak experience. And then it takes some time to integrate and kind of settle down and go back into your life and see what you can learn from that experience. So it almost resembles a medicine journey in that way. You can't be with the medicine in that way all the time. And that's good and normal. And yet it is wonderful to have these experiences when you feel called. Okay,
Listener Engagement and Interviews
00:08:25
Speaker
I think that's all I'm going to share for now. If you have questions about BFF, obviously always reach out to me. All right, so we've got two more interviews from the event, then and Tracy, the organizers. First up, here is an interview with Steve, who was also on the episode from last year's BFF. Enjoy this conversation with Steve.
00:08:48
Speaker
The
00:08:53
Speaker
BFF Okay, we're back with a repeat from last year. You heard him on the podcast right here. Introduce yourself. Tell us a little about yourself. Hey, I'm Steve. I'm ah from a couple episodes, I guess. And perhaps and maybe you can hear me from a description of a situation earlier this weekend.
00:09:13
Speaker
I'm Steve. Oh, yes. You were in the... someone was... just Piglet was describing a six-way happening by the pool, and you were involved there. I mean, I hope to be involved in all the ways, but yes.
00:09:26
Speaker
Hi, Hot Rob. how um it's It's been a fun weekend. It's been a actually, for me, of the most mellowest weekends. um I've maybe only actually had genital and, penis and genital sex twice a day.
00:09:45
Speaker
Only. Only. little. um throughout here like I don't count oral sex because that just happens that just that yeah it's kind of embarrassing how often that happens actually um but yes it's been great weekend there were a lot of new faces a lot of new faces that very much intermingled and just got absorbed into the mix very easily from what I could tell um
00:10:16
Speaker
lot A lot of new variety of people. just definitely a i guess I'm just really happy to see fresh faces. um And I think that beautiful people like you are calling him over. I'm definitely trying to like tell friends about this place and bring them over because who doesn't want to be a friendlier with their friends?
00:10:37
Speaker
Indeed. I think we should all have sex with our friends. That's my mission. made so Some fronts. Some fronts. I guess it depends. Maybe it was more mellow this year because I wasn't having sex, so that like took it down a slight notch. What do you think? I mean, i would I'll give you kudos for being very diplomatic in saying no, I'm not partaking, but I am very tempted. That was fun to watch a few times, folks. Hot Rob saying no is... ah
00:11:09
Speaker
is is is is a piece of art, really. It's a work of art. um So yes. I did i did learn that like it is kind of nice to say no and it doesn't disconnect you from people. There's a way to do it where
Steve's BFF Experiences
00:11:22
Speaker
you're still like, you're there, you're with them, but like you're just not, you know, I can't do that right now. And it's cool. And it goes back to, i think, but to what I said my first time around, everyone here is very accepting, very just authentic in who they are. So like,
00:11:38
Speaker
That's, I guess, proof of what I was saying that like, it doesn't matter that you're partaking or not. It is just, you're here for the fun. and You're here for the vibes. You're here for the debauchery, whether or not you are partaking or creating it. Yeah.
00:11:52
Speaker
No one was butthurt that I said no. um I feel like every time I walked into a group, an orgy, you were there this weekend. Do you, do is that accurate?
00:12:04
Speaker
So maybe my memory is a little bit hazy, but then, you know, that's what happens when the endorphins and all the happy big chemicals are high. um Is it all group player? Was there some solo stuff you did or anything like that? Or is it mostly end up in groups?
00:12:20
Speaker
I'm very friendly. So i want to say that, like, if I'm here, it usually became more than a threesome. ah Yeah, so I definitely play with actually maybe I was I'm lying.
00:12:35
Speaker
So yes, I could definitely play with several couples. okay Yes, definitely play with several couples and then this time around. Yeah, you know. um definitely actually finding that my niche is more the bdsm play like impact play ahhu um definitely had a little bit of a following that way um cool i did notice a bit more of that this year uh here and there i saw some scenes with the san andrew's cross and other things yeah yeah like i've started just traveling with my like impact kit so floggers paddles um
00:13:10
Speaker
um That's someone that I did not play with. The one person. um At this point, perhaps, actually. um But yes, overall, like i've it's been... i like adding to situations, and I think adding the kink aspect to it is definitely... It's intrigued folks that weren't into it. I know I helped a couple with their own little fantasy where usually she's the dom and he's the sub, but she wanted to be...
00:13:39
Speaker
submissive in a safe way and they reach out to me to help enable that. So that was very fun, especially when they're both about six feet tall and you know, I'm five five.
00:13:51
Speaker
So yes, it's always fun. Lovely. Any final thoughts or anything you want people to know about this place? Give it a shot. yourself and don't rush about it.
00:14:03
Speaker
Just be yourself. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Hot Rod. Thank you,
Drew's Journey and Non-Monogamy
00:14:08
Speaker
Steve. Thanks again.
00:14:14
Speaker
All right. That was Steve. We've got one more interview from the event. This is Drew. Enjoy this conversation with Drew.
00:14:29
Speaker
I'm Drew from LA. am bi, cis guy. What brought me here was continuing my journey through sexual discovery after after being in a monogamous relationship for too long.
00:14:47
Speaker
And yeah, just really meeting these wonderful people here. I don't know. What am I here? What do I do here? whole here I mean, like yeah I started out with swinger parties, swinger clubs, which are okay for intro because they're always available.
00:15:05
Speaker
But I think the the play parties are really the place where the places that have communities, right? A lot of places don't have communities. i We just found a new play party group recently that has like multiple ah social events every month.
00:15:20
Speaker
Right. And Similarly to BFF, where there's actually a social aspect. You know, a lot of the swingers thing, you show up and it's it's already 10 p.m. People are, you know, those one-off party, you show up and it's just like, oh there's not really a social thing. Like, people are already naked. But here you just have hours and hours to hang out and meet people and talk to people and get to know them. And similar with these other groups where you can go to the social meetups. It's really, it's nice to form connections versus just kind of show up i don't i don't like fucking strangers. i like fucking new people and then they become not strangers anymore. Right?
00:15:56
Speaker
Exactly. The intimacy of sex and then you become good friends. Tell me about your yeah your relationship, the trajectory of how you started exploring everything. So i yeah i guess I started going to the sledge clubs, um started to just figure out what what my poly was, what my what my thing was. i Started out saying, oh I'm monogamish. And I got into a relationship with a woman who was exploring with that and I became more non-monogamous and she became less non-monogamous. And so we ended up breaking up.
00:16:26
Speaker
Uh, and then I found ah couple of partners who have just been perfect because they are good friends with each other, where it's not a throuple, but they're very good friends with each other.
00:16:39
Speaker
And i can't imagine doing it any other way. Right. We're like everybody, Is it kitchen table Polly? I don't know what that is exactly. Where they know each other. Yeah, they know each other, right? Like we'll all hang out together. you know, they all have other partners and it's, and everybody is communicative and happy and we work things out the right way and we set up rules that we agree to One thing that I thought was really nice this week, kind of last time when we came here, we had, so we have condom rules, right? I'm, I, i
00:17:14
Speaker
don't use condoms with my two partners and they don't, you know, and, but we're the only people that don't use condoms with each other. Uh, we came here last year and there was a condom incident, uh, we didn't handle it well. Uh, and we had some conflict and then we set up some rules and had some communication. And then we came back here this year and we had another condom incident and we handled it it perfectly.
00:17:36
Speaker
And I was, I was very happy to like, Oh, not only did we prepare for this, we ran into the scenario, We immediately put the plan into play and everybody's going to be happy and nobody's going be mad. What was the plan? Like, how did you, how did it change from year to year?
00:17:50
Speaker
Oh, so the thing is like, so fluid bonded with those two women, right. And try to keep that very close circle. Um, but Melissa had a condom incident last year, right. So then something broke or something. Uh, and then after that I kept talking about a condom.
00:18:05
Speaker
Right. And so then that that kind of circle is broken. Right. Because now, And then I got back home and my partner back home said, oh, I said, okay, I'll just use condoms with you for a couple of weeks, get tested and then I'll go back to normal. And she said, well, that doesn't feel fair to me, right? Because I didn't do it. She didn't do anything wrong. The incident was on this end. And so we said, okay, if this happens again, I'll start using condoms with Melissa immediately.
00:18:27
Speaker
And then... there'll be, you know, the circle will be still secure. And so we did that and it really, I was very happy. that i was like, oh yeah, we, we have the plan, put the plan into action and we did. And I, and then I let her know immediately back home and she said, thanks. Like, oh, so sorry for that, but thanks. Yeah. and Like, yeah, that's good communication for your, ah the second partner to be able to say, well, like I didn't do that. So, and and that actually hurts me instead of just accepting it and feeling resentful or something. And then saying, yeah, okay.
00:18:57
Speaker
Good feedback, like, you know, took a while to work through it, but everybody was happy in the end and everybody is going to continue to be happy. And that's, that's how you do it. You just communicate and you be clear and open and honest and all of that. Like let people know how you feel and they love you. So they'll be accepting and they'll work it out.
00:19:15
Speaker
How and when did you realize you were bi? Oh, gosh. grew up in Boston in the 80s. So I was not bi, but I was definitely bi. i remember in high school, I really wanted a girlfriend. And I had this thought where I was like, well, if I can't find one soon, I guess I'll just be gay. yeah because i Because I didn't have the language for bi back then, right? like Like Newsweek hadn't invented bisexuality. um and then... Bisexuality was invented in Yes, yes. ah And...
00:19:48
Speaker
I had that magazine delivered to my parents. I was like, oh, what's this? um And then as soon as I got to college, I was just like, yes, I'm bi. I'm bi. Where's the boy? Let me kiss him. And it was interesting because like I was already, i had planned to like become a different person when I college and and become more myself. And I ran into, it was 2000, and I ran into a lot of people who'd be like, why aren't you made out with this guy last night? And like I'm like, yeah.
00:20:12
Speaker
And like and you're just you're just letting people know? I'm like, yeah. That's fine. And then, like, I come, you know, people would talk to me about that. And then a little while later, like, you know, people go, oh, that's so cool. That's great. And then, you know, this one guy was talking to me about that. And then later he comes out as gay.
00:20:27
Speaker
And I was like, oh, I hope I help make him comfortable. And I had another friend who who hasn't, isn't really out, but defined themselves as non-binary. And so the need being like that was very helpful for them to figure that out. And so I've just been like, yeah, like so as soon as the 2000s hit it and I got out of Boston and that kind of thing, I was just like,
00:20:44
Speaker
why hide it? Like why it's, it just feels wrong, you know? and let me see. And then I was married for a while. So i was straight then. Right. Um, although, although that was a big part of getting out of that marriage. Cause I was like, Oh, I cannot just do this. Like I, I don't want to cheat, but she's not a guy. And like, how do I, how do I figure that out? How do I manage that?
00:21:09
Speaker
And I remember thinking like in that marriage, I'm not, this, this partner isn't perfect for me, but there's no way I'm going to find one partner who is perfect for me. Right. There's the impossible.
00:21:20
Speaker
Uh, and then I eventually realized, Oh, maybe i could find multiple partners. and And we all know the idea of, oh multiple partners are filling different needs and everything. And I finally like figured out that worldview.
00:21:32
Speaker
and now I have all my needs met, and it's really fucking wild. it's possible. It can happen. That's lovely. It can, and it's like, ah yeah, I want people to know that. Like, it's not that hard. You just have to be thoughtful and smart and kind and, like, read the books yeah and mean it. Yeah. Like...
00:21:51
Speaker
And find the community and find the people. And then those people will help you find the other good people. Like there's not, I'm sure not everybody's doing it right. You know, i'm sure a lot of people are doing it wrong. And I run into that once in a while, but like my people, we all support each other and help each other figure out how to do it right.
00:22:09
Speaker
What are three books you'd recommend on that topic? of ah Not Ethical Slut. Ethical Slut was great in the 90s. Ethical Slut is like 300 pages of it's okay to be poly. Uh-huh.
00:22:20
Speaker
if If you're already okay to be poly, you don't need read Ethical Slug. Polysecure is okay unless you've already read about attachment theory, and then it's just mostly attachment theory. Like most of that because of attachment. But I did like that one.
00:22:35
Speaker
More than two also seemed useful. So those are only two, but yeah. Cool. I love Polysecure. I haven't read more than two, but I i will check it out. ah yeah follow That was a follow-up to Ethical Slug, it felt like. It was like, okay, it was like, now that you know it's okay, here's how to do it right now. you know Cool. Well, it sounds like you're, you were a trailblazer back in college. It's like being more out, it has benefits for you. It's like you wanted to be out, but also it ripples out to other people and who knows the transformations you can spark in other people. It's beautiful. And what's the downside? Like the doubt, like there used to be a stigma attached to being gay and there still is right in a lot of places, but like if the people around you directly don't feel that way,
00:23:16
Speaker
then it's fine. And if you are around people that do feel that way, stop being around them. like shit Okay, cool. Those are not good people. Bye. That's a good filter for you. Exactly.
00:23:27
Speaker
Any final thoughts or things you want people to know about this space? This space about BFF? It is insane. It is like, I'll tell you that the thought
Organizers' Perspectives and BFF Evolution
00:23:36
Speaker
that I had coming in here the very first time was, come in here, people are naked, people are whatever.
00:23:42
Speaker
I'm nervous. And I do this thing that I've done a lot where I walk by a guy and I go, oh, that guy's really hot. Surely, though, he's straight. I know he's straight. And then I realize I'm here. I'm like, wait a minute. No, he's definitely not straight. He's absolutely not straight. Like, you know, on the street, who knows, right?
00:24:02
Speaker
But all of a sudden I'm here and I go, oh, everybody is game. Everybody is valid here. Everybody wants will like say yes, right? It's a very yes focused place.
00:24:13
Speaker
I love it. Cool. Amazing. Well, thank you, Drew. Thanks for being on the show. All right, that was Drew. And now finally, the moment you've all been waiting for, an extended interview with the organizers of BFF for many years, Brad and Tracy.
00:24:41
Speaker
Okay, here we go. So I'm here with Brad and Tracy, the people who run BFF. I was going to say founders, but I know you're not actually the founders. So why don't we start by you both introduce yourselves and tell me, like, how did this come to be your thing, BFF?
00:25:00
Speaker
Well, this is Tracy. Hello. Hello. And? I'm Brad. And we discovered it together. In year two of the event, we were planning a trip to Vegas and had reached out to a bi-couple and they weren't available the week that we were going to be there, but they said, but are you both by we said, yes, we're both bi. And he said, well, here's this event.
00:25:24
Speaker
And we went and it just really opened our eyes. You know, it's, it's, it was very tough. This was 20 years ago to find, um, 21 now. Well, we came at the second year.
00:25:37
Speaker
So, oh yeah yeah. So it was 20 years ago. Things were not as, you know, readily available for my people. There was nothing. Yeah. I mean, they're still not readily available. So 20 years ago, it must've been hardly anything, but there was, this was it. And we stumbled into it and we just loved it. and And the vibe was unreal. And the people who ran it, they ran it for the first three years. And I, from what I understand, they,
00:26:07
Speaker
didn't get rich and so they didn't want to do it. And so I guess I guess they weren't very good at math, but we all still wanted to do it. So ah our buddy took it over and ran it for nine more years until 2017. And then he didn't want to do it anymore.
00:26:26
Speaker
And that is our dog drinking yes, dog drinking in the background. We're not at BFF anymore. We're at Brad and Tracy's house a few months later. Okay. Anyway, continue. Okay.
00:26:37
Speaker
So nobody else was picking up the reins. And I said to Tracy, Tracy, I think if we don't take this over, it's done forever. And we were just attendees. It was our favorite event of the year. At the time, it was only the once a year.
00:26:50
Speaker
Now it's biannually, but um we decided, you know, rather than see this thing go, cause there was nothing else like it. We took it over and then we were going to grow it a little bit. We didn't want to kill the awesome vibe. So we were like, okay,
00:27:05
Speaker
We finally started in 2020. We started with a winter event and a summer event, but where each one we only allowed to grow by 25 people year to year. yeah So it just slowly grows and keeps that same. It's really it you know like a community. cool Awesome vibe.
00:27:23
Speaker
Yes, we heard so much about the community. that that's what It's funny when you're there, like you think people will just talk about the sex, which you know they did. But the community is really what everyone wanted to talk to me about. And people were in tears. Some of them were in tears talking to me about this for for this podcast. That's what was important for us. i mean The people that ran it before, and even Don, when he ran it before,
00:27:50
Speaker
or our friend when he ran I can cut it. it's um It had a different vibe, but it was the community. It was the friendships. It was...
00:28:01
Speaker
You know, there was this funny quote that I had said at one point. And I said, it's like family, but not in the gross way. like family, family that you fuck, but not in the gross way. And then they kept using it for like years. front of me And I'm like, but you know what I mean? And they go, we do know what you mean.
00:28:17
Speaker
and with it only being once a year, it was always so bittersweet on Sunday or Monday saying goodbye to everybody um because it was like coming home every year. And it was like, oh God, we have to wait another year before we see each other.
00:28:31
Speaker
Like summer camp. Yeah, it was. It was like, yes, sexy, by bisexual summer camp. And it was just really so very freeing and very healing, I think. Yeah. You know, it was just very much a recharge and a reset. And I think that was what was so important to me is just, well, we can all just be our true authentic selves. And um over time, you know, just keeping that going. And then, of course, adding the The dancing and the lights and everything that Brad's added to the event to make it um more of a party was was important. and And I think that was the valuable thing for for me anyway.
00:29:13
Speaker
dance party was so fun i'm at particularly as someone who wasn't having sex this year for my plant medicine reasons i had so much fun at that dance party this year um you i'm curious you mentioned the vibe changing over the years how has it changed how has the feeling and the vibe changed over the years well when the original uh organizers sorry that's the word when the original organizers were running it they would have um events like you'd go to the strip club, you'd go to the dance club. Um, they had some vendors, like it was a little bit. That was only the first three years, but yeah, there was a lot of distracting things on agenda and it was really, we just, when, when, uh, our predecessor took it over, not the founders, but when he took it over for the nine years, uh, he asked around and we all decided, no, all that stuff is really just taking us away from what we really want to do. which is just hang out naked, party, and fuck, you know, and just hang out, you know. We don't want the all these distractions. But then we added the dance party, which got a little more, and you know, it just upped the energy level, and it's it's just a fun addition. It's not really distracting. And it was just Saturday.
00:30:31
Speaker
but But I've been actually trying to be careful to not change the vibe too much as far as that, because it's got this welcoming, friendly, like, you know, maybe everybody doesn't want to fuck everybody, but there's, it's not clickish at all. Everybody is so welcoming and friendly. and And it's just like, it's like one group. It's not like those people and those people in these little corner huddle over here and they all keep it themselves. It's, it's, it's amazing. And that's the thing that I didn't want to kill. and that's why we're only allowing 25 more people yeah every time.
00:31:03
Speaker
Oh, as far as the dance party this summer, we're adding like a little 10 to 15 minute pre as a like working into the dance party, light show, like lights and laser show. It's going to be,
00:31:16
Speaker
Love it. Cool. What was I going to say? Yeah, like my first time i came alone. I didn't know anyone and I was pretty nervous not knowing anyone. And really, it was pretty instant of that feeling of, oh, everyone's so friendly.
00:31:32
Speaker
There's it's not clicky like some other play parties can be. You know, people know each other already and they're not going to come talk to you. It wasn't that way at all here. Like I met people day one who then by day three were like close friends. Yeah. yeah It's so welcoming. It's, it's, it's unreal.
00:31:51
Speaker
Yeah. Before we ran the event, it was like, you know, there was a few of us that as soon as new people would walk in the door, we were like the welcoming committee. Oh, And that was really fun. And seeing that continue with the with as big as a group as it is, when there's a new person, you can could they kind of have that look, like that, I'm taking this all in kind of look.
00:32:11
Speaker
And you see that, and you just see people rush over there and like, hello, let me show you around. And and you'll see tours going around. and Tours often inevitably lead to um very thorough chores. How do you mean? happy I was just thinking about that.
00:32:28
Speaker
Yeah, if you if you do a lap around the complex at any moment, like something could happen. You'll probably bump into someone and something might happen. yeah There's always something going on around there.
00:32:40
Speaker
Yeah. um I'm curious also about like your buy journeys leading up to this, like before this, like for both of you, whoever wants to go first.
00:32:52
Speaker
When and how did you realize you were buy and what was it like before you got to BFF? Who wants to go for it? I'll go. Well, I, I guess I always knew I was. However, back in that day, just didn't seem like it was an option. You know, I was talking to somebody who, who presented as gay their whole life, who, you it turns out they're bi. And I'm like, well, you know, why didn't you act on it? Like, I didn't think it was an option. And I could so relate to that statement because it was like, yeah, I always knew I was, but it's like,
00:33:29
Speaker
was under impression I had to like, oh, if I wanted this side, I had to be gay. And I was definitely not, a little more on the heteronormantic side, but totally bi, actually pan. But until I thought it was an option. So eventually told my first wife and that didn't, and we were swingers, but she was a little bit on the double standard-y kind of side of things. in some respects like it was okay you know for the women to be the men especially not her men that kind of fell apart and then when I met Tracy some we were talking a lot on the phone and somehow it came up that she was like she was playing with a guy and she was playing girl so was like oh you were kind swinging a little bit and she was like wow I'm like oh and she's like oh yeah I'm buying and so I took that opportunity right away oh okay well me too cool you know cool
00:34:26
Speaker
How did she react? Fine. I mean, she's... Here we are. Yeah, here we are. She's totally, you know, pro-alphabet community. How'd you two meet? It was an introduction, actually. I had known a a friend of hers that knew her from school, and um I was...
00:34:51
Speaker
between wives and uh so i said know anybody you know young people single send them my way you know well know maybe we'll get a drink and just see if we click you know no pressure anything else just kind so we did we got a drink and we clicked cool right with my first one night stand oh we had both been freshly out of our long-term relationships and you know we just Oh, let's meet. We'll go out on a date. No big deal. You know, we weren't really expecting anything and we hooked up and i wasn't expecting to get laid. So, yeah. I don't know that you can really call it a one night stand. I don't think I did it right, but it worked out okay. It felt like that at the time and then you didn't see each other. but That seems like a fun thing to do. I've never done that before. Let's do that. and Yeah, for a while we were still both seeing other people.
00:35:42
Speaker
We also lived really far away. so Yeah, she was definitely GU, geographically undesirable. So I don't think we really had any intention of it being long term because of the distance.
00:35:53
Speaker
But... You know, we just clicked and the rest is history. How far into your relationship was the first BFF that you attended? Wasn't long.
00:36:04
Speaker
Nine months? yeah oh Yeah. So it's pretty soon. Yeah. I mean, we were pretty fresh. That was so awesome that we just discovered it. And it was, you know, it had already been one year we had missed. It was the second year of it.
00:36:17
Speaker
And we were just like, wow. And, and, I mean, not only was there nothing else like it in the sense that it's an all by event, but just, just the, the, the vibe that welcoming that non-clickish and yeah and unpretentious um just, you know, cause we've been to a ton of all these, everybody says the same things. We've all been to a lot of events and there's just nothing else like this. Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:48
Speaker
Okay. And tell us about your by journey. Um, you know, ive been thinking about that lately, lately, because I haven't had, i don't know if if I had the language to really know.
00:37:01
Speaker
i was always kissing girls cool as a, as a small child and got caught a couple of times. And um I don't know.
00:37:13
Speaker
and don't, okay. I had the words the other day. um and was always attracted to other girls, So I just assumed that meant that i wanted to be like them. Like maybe somebody told me that like, well, you admire them. Oh, I like them. Oh, because you admire them. you want to be like them. yeah And I'm like, I want to kiss them and kiss their boobies. Like, but I didn't, you know, and like, you know, one of my favorite movies as a very small kid was, or a favorite scene, I should say was Beastmaster.
00:37:42
Speaker
And that scene where these two really hot girls are showering in the, I don't know, everyone's going to go watch Beastmaster. But there's a scene where the two slave girls are washing themselves. And, you know, that was porn for a, know, what, four year old. And I'm just like, oh, they're such beautiful girls. But I don't know, I've just always been attracted to women, but never really acted on it until I was um in my early 20s, I suppose, as far as actually taking it to the next level. I mean, making out and stuff as a kid.
00:38:17
Speaker
that light experimentation, but as far as actually having sex with a woman, it was with my ex. and um And that was the story
BFF vs Swinging Scene
00:38:24
Speaker
that I was telling Brad when he was like, wait, what? Go back. Cause it wasn't the point of the story. i think the point of the story was. The good part. And I'm like, wait, hold on here. Swinging and bisexuality. We're going to back up and cover that a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:43
Speaker
yeah And it was something about allergies. And I was like, well, let me tell you I was doing this thing and I was, you know, having sex with this woman and then I was sitting on his dick and then anyway, and then something allergies. And he goes, wait a minute, let's go back to that story. so And so he said, okay, I want you to look at this website. And he has me look up his lifestyle website. And I think that weekend he came out we changed it to a couple's profile and said, let's try this. Cause I didn't know what swinging was. yeah I was 26.
00:39:10
Speaker
six I thought that was something people did in the seventies. And I'm picturing, um burly, hairy chested men with really thick gold chains. and um not You're not into that? I was just yeah i was just you know picturing a very 70s boogie nights or something.
00:39:27
Speaker
I thought that was something that was back then. I didn't know it was a current thing. I didn't know it existed. um and i think it was like only within a week. We went from cute one to cute one. yeah Yeah, you came over that weekend. We changed the profile back.
00:39:42
Speaker
And... I was like, wow, this is like grocery shopping for sex. You can, you literally just find them on the website. It was, it was mind blowing to me. then of course. Logan's Run. What? Logan's Run.
00:39:57
Speaker
What's that? Oh, it's an old sci-fi movie. But they were doing that. You could just like, yeah. So like the swinging scene, how, I know it's the BFF scene is adjacent to swinging. There's a lot of people who are swingers who come, but it's different.
00:40:15
Speaker
So I'm curious, like, you know, what and some people already have talked about the differences, but what are they in your mind? And like, how have you navigated the swinging scene? Like how much a part of that are you guys versus the,
00:40:30
Speaker
is BFF and bi stuff in this community, has that become your whole outlet or are you still in the swinging scene outside of that? Well, I mean, we've talked about that. We, like I said, we really didn't know about, we really didn't have any bi avenues, right? That wasn't a thing until we learned about BFF. It was on the website. You know, you'd kind of look for people who are brave enough to say bi-curious or bisexual for for the men. I mean, of course, in the, we call it the vanilla lifestyle. So the non-bi lifestyle.
00:41:04
Speaker
But we're still in the swinging scene. And we, you know, I would play straight, you know, where, you know, which in the swinging world, mostly that means the women is bi and the guy is not. And we have straight swinger friends still. And these days we do that little less now because we know just so many bi people. it's just so much cooler sometimes when it's just whatever can happen can happen. I think the thing with us for
00:41:40
Speaker
like a lot of the parties and stuff, there was just such a double standard that the expectation was that the women were bi, but not too bi. Because that was very threatening for the men.
00:41:51
Speaker
And the men couldn't be bi because that was very threatening to the men. And so, you know, we certainly have a lot of friends that now know that we're bi and we still hang out and stuff. But once we sort of discovered BFF and created a group of friends the the vanilla swinger parties and stuff just weren't as fun yeah and aside from that we did notice it was very clicky and we didn't care for that vibe but i i have to add that i see it i have these big by groups on all the major lifestyle sites um times are definitely changing um Really? Oh, yeah. the the The amount of guys we're now admitting it or even slightly bit like, oh, like like on Cassidy, you know, there's like a scale of how much, you know, if this kind of interaction or whatever. So so many guys now will put like ah maybe but unlikely, at least, you know, under the but like like they're open to it, you know, or. or, or, but there's varying degrees of that, which, but there's so many more, because I've always said that I hypothesize the amount of bisexual men was equal to the amount of bisexual women. It's about the same, but because of, you know, societal taboos, they don't feel comfortable admitting it, you know, so you're not getting a real number.
00:43:16
Speaker
I'm, we're starting to see that a little bit more now to where it's like, it's reflecting the actual number. So, ah Because there's so many, there's bisexual characters in in film, in literature, you know on television, in in in the comic book characters you know that that people are seeing in film and all over.
00:43:38
Speaker
I think that's absolutely true. There's famous ah athletes now that are coming out. And fictional, absolutely. It's like heated rivalry. Yeah. there's there's There's a lot. There's a lot. yeah Yeah. And it's so it's really changing people's attitudes a bit. And I'm seeing a lot more.
00:43:56
Speaker
these oh yeah. The communities are growing. I like I can't keep up with it. mean, I wonder if that means there will be more events like BFF in the future because there must be a huge hidden population. There's already now Ho Weekend, which is sort of adjacent to BFF and many of the same people go and there's hedonism in Jamaica, bi-week at hedonism. There's some crews I've heard people. There's littler things that happen. There's like a little thing in Colorado and then there's some little, or you know, parties in Vegas and and Florida I've heard about, you know, just like a, you know, not like a big tape or anything, just more like um like your local swing club or whatever.
00:44:42
Speaker
what you said what is What you said is really interesting about like the women can be, have to be just the right amount of buy. Not like buy enough that it's hot for the men, but not to buy that they go off with each other and ignore the men, right? like It was a bit misogynistic. And I'll give you an example. Yeah, please. We were at a party and it was two of the guys, it was their birthday. Hold on.
00:45:09
Speaker
There we We were at a party and it was two of the guys' birthdays and they were doing a naked twister ice cream sundae theme where they had several girls on the twister board. And these two guys, you know, would flick the thing, or you know, red, red hand and then whipped cream or something.
00:45:32
Speaker
And so the guys, both of them would have whipped cream cans and they'd go around and squirt whipped cream on all the girls and lick it off. And yeah, and it was, you know, very so it was a whole Sunday theme. But I remember one of the guys was like, lick this nipple, lick this nipple.
00:45:47
Speaker
And i said, well, you're a little OCD there, huh? And he goes, well, because I licked that one. So he had to look at the other one because that would be gay. i'm just like, okay, i don't want come to these parties anymore. I just remember looking Brad and be like, I don't want to do this anymore. It's dumb. We can't both lick the same nipple. It's like our yeah dick's touching, but like even more extreme. And I thought, wow, that's that's sad.
00:46:14
Speaker
And that's just not my scene. yeah um So close to being hot. but That was so long ago. That one just really stuck with me. That was right the That was like 20 years ago. yeah and I forgot all of it. Yeah, we've come so far. Yeah.
00:46:32
Speaker
But I've definitely seen guys
Organizing and Experiencing BFF
00:46:33
Speaker
get very threatened if girls have ah too much fun. yeah um So there is the expectation that you will be by-production for my enjoyment.
00:46:47
Speaker
Yours is is secondary. Yeah. The parties and the events that we go to though now are so far removed from that. just and Everybody can be them what to whatever... degree or, you know, nobody's yucking, anybody's yum, everybody's just free to be them.
00:47:07
Speaker
Well, and that's what's so nice too, is we've made friends over the 20 years that we've been in the lifestyle together and doing BFF and, or attending BFF.
00:47:18
Speaker
I mean, we've learned so much from one another within the community about safety, about health, about pleasure, about,
00:47:29
Speaker
sex enhancing drugs, um medicine, medicine, you know, all of these different aspects and prep and proper cleaning and hygiene um is shared on the, pla on the the, the boards and stuff. Like people are really learning from each other. we go on vacations with these people and it's, we don't have anything to hide. you know, if we're doing things. Everything is just very open and freeing. Yeah.
00:47:59
Speaker
And there's always somebody who knows like you know a plethora about things that the rest of us perhaps don't. Like you know some like the medicine you were talking about, PT-141, which is like a peptide. You can just you can get it anywhere, but you don't know what it is.
00:48:16
Speaker
Well, and then people were talking about you know prepping for bottoms. And they were saying, oh, this TV show does the greatest job of teaching you everything you need to know. and it was on Netflix it was like a British show yeah had a really that was it was yeah it was me it was talking about that and it was really good but that was being passed around on the telegram it was and so a lot of people that were like I'm very curious about bottoming but I don't feel comfortable I'm not really sure what the steps are oh watch this and it just it was very liberating for I think a lot of people just just the freedom that we have to say yeah this is who we are it's not like
00:48:59
Speaker
you know, you have your friend that you grew up with, like your boyfriend or your girlfriend that you grew up with when you were little, and they know a lot about you and they know a lot about your experiences in childhood, but they may not know that you're a swinger.
00:49:10
Speaker
Yeah. And then you have your swinger friends that know you're a swinger, but they may not know you're bi. And for us, it's like when you get to the level that we're at within our community, we don't really have any secrets. We're just like, yeah, this is who we are. Everyone knows everything. everything that's yeah That's the thing. Right. No, that's makes so much sense to me and is how I've felt like I used to go to parties and I used to not be comfortable in my own sexuality. And then even going to parties, I would be nervous.
00:49:42
Speaker
And I've realized the more I go and especially through BFF has helped me feel really comfortable just being having no expectations, being myself, going with the flow. And that's the way to be at these things. Own it and be totally open.
00:49:56
Speaker
If you're an open book, you will receive you know what you're meant to. You don't have to try hard. You can just be so share everything. yeah Now, what I will say... along those lines is you're right. It's so freeing, but we've even seen people that are like we just want to watch this first time. And they were a little bit, you know, staying in the bleachers a little bit and that's totally okay. They still came back. yeah um They just weren't ready to jump in, but they didn't feel, they weren't made to feel like. however pressure right yeah to do anything you know yep but there's opportunities yeah you have to take them when they come because if you try to make them oh let's schedule this for yeah good luck with that I've seen that happen and yeah let's meet up later at this thing um no you're never all going to find each other later yeah yeah but but you just take them when they come like you said you just walk around the thing and an opportunity can arise and if you want to take advantage of there it is yeah but there's never pressure if you if you don't you know
00:50:56
Speaker
How do you two manage like running the event, but also enjoying it for yourselves? That was a very tough ah balancing act to pull off, which we weren't at first. it was I was just too busy running it, and I wasn't really able to be part of it.
00:51:16
Speaker
wait a second, the only reason I took this over is because I love this event. So, you know, i don't I don't need a gig, I need a bisexual fuck fest. So now we, you know, we have to not a lot. We have a price by like 10 bucks, everybody. And we now we we're hiring people with that money.
00:51:35
Speaker
And so we have a good crew. We have a really good crew coming this summer. um so we can just be there and be present i like when i when i do something like that i'm like you know we're not here to i don't we don't sign up people for the next event i don't want to talk about work don't want to be bothered and if you really need something you know yeah i am the organizer but if you don't i'm really here to party you know and and uh like ah like i don't do emails i i just I don't even keep up on the BFF chats or Telegram because I'm just like, I'm there. I'm present. I'm at the event. that's
00:52:11
Speaker
That's been my goal. So now i think we're we're a lot closer to actually achieving And then over event after event, just sort of monitoring um food intake and stuff. People used to go off site a lot.
00:52:23
Speaker
And Brad and I were like, we don't really want to go off site. You know, we're going stay. we don't want to have to get clothes on and go off and do anything. yeah So, you know, food was brought in and you know make sure that everyone has enough. And, you know, just kind of zeroing in on things over time, I think has given us more freedom.
00:52:40
Speaker
Each event, I think we get a little bit better at, I mean, it's not perfect. you know, I do my best, but um that helps. And then, of course, hiring people, which is tough, you know, to say I need you two times a year is sometimes hard to find people. That's always a challenge to find somebody that's trustworthy and hardworking.
00:52:59
Speaker
But we've got some really good people. We step up our game every event just at least a little bit. A little more. Yeah. Whatever we learn. We try. Cool. Yeah, it is a shock to the system there, like how how you get so comfortable being naked all the time.
00:53:15
Speaker
Then you walk outside and you're like, oh, shit, I have to wear clothes? This sucks. And I have felt that same thing of like, yeah, I'd rather just not look what's out there that I need this weekend. Yeah.
00:53:27
Speaker
But before, you know, like the week before and you're like, oh, God, I'm going to be naked next week. How do I feel? Am I in the right headspace? You know, how is my self-concept this week? You know, we're all human.
00:53:38
Speaker
And then you get there and you take off your clothes and walk outside and it's just like, yeah, this is nice. Right. And then I go back to real life and I'm like, why do I have to wear clothes all the time? Like you really, get in that mindset and it's very freeing. And I, yeah, it's like, why are we wearing so much clothes all the time?
00:53:56
Speaker
um Okay. what um What else do you want to share with people that we haven't discussed and or any final thoughts you want people to know about BFF? think the biggest thing for me is,
00:54:12
Speaker
The intention of it really started with the concept of bi guys and the guy and the gals that love them, right? It was really a safe space for our bi males. And that's why we don't let straight males there. Even though people will say, oh, but they're really cool. They're you know they're really open-minded.
00:54:30
Speaker
Cool, but they're not bi. And it does change the vibe. It's different when you know that all of the men there, whether they want to fuck you or not, they're all in the same headspace. They've all experienced the same...
00:54:41
Speaker
for social pressures, discrimination, whatever words you want to use, that's a universal. Yeah, if they're turning
Conclusion and Gratitude
00:54:48
Speaker
you down, it's not because they're straight. It's most likely because they just came.
00:54:52
Speaker
and Yeah. It's 30 minutes. she you know so yeah But it's not just, you know, it's not just for, you know, bisexuals per se. It's, you know, we're pansexual, so it's not like it's one or the other. There's lots of transgender individuals and so it's not discriminatory there and it shouldn't be um it should be a safe space for all of us there um but yeah really is it's truly freeing yeah and it's an insanely fun time but no straight guys there's enough for stuff for straight guys out there in the world exactly
00:55:32
Speaker
out Well, great. Thank you both um so much. I can't wait for you to hear all the other interviews that have that will be paired with this episode because people really...
00:55:44
Speaker
get to be themselves there and stuff came out and I like, they're some of the best interviews I feel like I've i've done on this podcast because so much comes up in that space. And so thank you both for helping facilitate and create that space.
00:56:00
Speaker
And here's to many, many, it's been 21 years. Here's to many more. Thank you. Absolutely. Yes. Thanks guys. Thanks Brad and Tracy.
00:56:13
Speaker
Alright, that was my interview with Brad and Tracy, and that concludes this three-part series about BFF. Summer BFF actually just happened. If you were there, let me know how it went. If you weren't there and you want to go to the next one, you can DM me or there are instructions to get in touch with Brad and Tracy in the show notes directly. You can reach out to them. They will get you on the list. BFF happens twice a year in January and June. There is also a fun event called HOE Ho Weekend that happens in March and September, also in Palm Springs. Many of the same people go.
00:56:51
Speaker
Let me know if you would like to know how to attend to that one. And there's more and more. I'm actually thinking of like, what might I create someday that is some kind of hybrid of a play event and a community building learning event. That is something i don't see out there yet that might be more in my wheelhouse to help create. I really want to build in person by community as well. All right. Thanks for listening to this series about BFF. Thank you for listening to this podcast in general. We've got two more episodes coming up to finish out season 10 and then stay tuned in the fall for lots more special things. I'm so excited. I'm working on lots of new coaching materials, courses, workshops, masterclasses, and I want to talk more about everything I'm learning and experiencing on this podcast, maybe even on a second new podcast. I've been doing some other things in my life that I want to share.
00:57:48
Speaker
So I'm glad you're here. Thanks for listening and stay tuned.
00:57:55
Speaker
Two Bye Guys by One Bye Guy is produced and edited by me, Robert Brooks Cohen, and it was created by me and Alex Boyd. Our logo art is by Caitlin Weinman. Our music is by Ross Mincer.
00:58:07
Speaker
To learn more about my individual and group coaching offerings, visit robertbrookscohen.com. And to help support this podcast, visit patreon.com slash robertbrookscohen. You'll get full video episodes, early access, and bonus content.
00:58:21
Speaker
Thank you for listening to Two Bye Guys by One Bye Guy.