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BFF Part 2: Sacred, Depraved, and Everything In Between
787 Plays5 days ago
Welcome back to part two of our three-part series on BFF, the biggest, best, biannual, bisexual play party in Palm Springs. A lot of play happens at this event, allowing attendees to embrace their desires, release shame, and connect authentically, but even more important is the atmosphere of acceptance, love, and learning from each other. There’s a lot of great and healing work being done at BFF!
In this episode, you’ll hear seven more interviews from the event that range from sexy to sacred – and everything in between.
· Jen — A bi activist who has been in the lifestyle since 2000 who explains why BFF is a big part of finally moving to California.
· Mark — Back solo this year after last year's fan-favorite interview with his husband Josh, Mark talks about deepening his bi exploration and self-discovery.
· An anonymous BFF newbie – attending only his second-ever play party, he shares what it's like to be new to both non-monogamy and bisexuality.
· Dr. Laurie Bennett-Cook — Clinical sexologist and veteran BFFer, Laurie talks about the exploding demand for Bi+ events and how she and her husband navigated non-monogamy 25 years ago with no roadmap.
· Lynn — A first-timer inspired to attend by her neighbor Don (from last year's episode), Lynn delivers some of the most moving reflections of the series on authenticity, shame, and the sacred energy of this community.
· Piglet — A seven-time BFFer who hilariously narrates a live scene playing out nearby and reflects on how this community is generating happiness and positivity for the world.
· Spencer — Another seven-time attendee, he shares his Arkansas coming-of-age story and his philosophy of being a quiet but open facilitator of others' journeys.
There's no video for this series, but the audio is definitely explicit. Stay tuned for Part 3 — two more interviews plus an extended conversation with BFF organizers Brad and Tracy.
If you'd like to attend BFF, you can reach out directly to Brad at his profile "CUTEONES" on Kasidie, SDC or Lifetylelounge, or at "CUTEONES1" on SLS or Fetlife.
75-minute initial deep-dive coaching session with Rob: https://calendly.com/robertbrookscohen/first-coaching-session-75-mins
Learn more at www.robertbrookscohen.com
Support this podcast: patreon.com/robertbrookscohen
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Transcript
Introduction to '2 Bi Guys' and BFF
00:00:00
Speaker
Oh
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello everybody! Welcome to another episode of 2 Bi Guys. We are back with part 2 in this 3 part series about BFF, the biannual bisexual play party in Palm Springs.
00:00:27
Speaker
If you missed the last episode, I encourage you to go back. And also we did an episode last year about BFF. There's just so many stories to share from this event and they're all different and unique so I wanted you to hear bunch of them.
00:00:40
Speaker
Today I've got seven more interviews for you, and as I said last time, BFF is a play party. There's a lot of sex happening, but what's really special about it is that it's a place where bisexuality is prevalent and completely accepted, and even beyond just accepted. it is actually celebrated. not Every single person there is bi. The men have to be bi, and most of the women are bi also, but couples are allowed if there's a bi male partnered with a gay man or a straight woman, they are more than welcome as well. And because of that, what happens is that everyone who comes, whether they're bi or not, is into bi people. And it really creates an anything-goes type environment. And even the straight women and gay men, I've seen some fluidity among them too, which is nice for them to be able to explore in a safe and welcoming space.
00:01:33
Speaker
And really, aside from the sex, as you've heard and will continue to hear, it's just a safe and affirming environment. People are sharing their stories. People are talking about bisexuality all day.
00:01:45
Speaker
And you don't get that in many other places. So it's a lovely place to spend a weekend.
Joining BFF and Staying Updated
00:01:51
Speaker
If you do want to attend BFF, you've got only a few days left to sign up for summer BFF. So if you're listening to this now, check the show notes right away. I've put in info about how to contact Brad, the organizer. You got to do that by June 11th, I believe, if you want to attend summer BFF, which is at the end of June 2021.
00:02:12
Speaker
And if you miss this one, it happens twice a year in January and June every year. So you can go to the next one. Before we get into it, just a quick coaching plug. If you're listening to this podcast and you're into what I'm doing and feeling drawn to it for whatever reason, i invite you to join my mailing list. I don't send out a newsletter very often, maybe every other week, week bi-weekly, but you can stay up to date on my free Fluid Conversations discussion series, which happens every month, and some other new things I'm trying out, plus info on group coaching. So go to robertbrookscohen.com slash newsletter and sign up for that. And if this podcast and my style resonates with you and you are navigating a challenge in your life or just want to reach the next level of your authenticity or self-actualization, I invite you to book an individual coaching session with
Coaching Services for Identity Challenges
00:03:04
Speaker
me. I've been thinking a lot lately about how to create the correct container for this work, especially to begin with. And I've realized that the first conversation I have with people deserve some real space and time. So I'm now offering a 75 minute initial deep dive coaching session where we can really get to know each other and sit with whatever it is you are navigating, whether it's sexuality or relationships, identity changes. your creativity, your career, any other kind of major life transition, whatever it is you're navigating right now, we will dive into it, create a safe space to talk honestly about it, and we'll find paths forward that are aligned for you. This 75-minute session is a full coaching session. It's not a sales call. We're going to dive deep into whatever you want to talk about. And at the end, if continuing together makes sense, we can talk about what ongoing support looks like. I work in blocks of four coaching sessions at a time these days. Standard sessions are 45 minutes, and this initial one is 75 minutes. So if you're interested in that, head over to my website, robertbrookscohen.com. You can find info for how to book that there.
00:04:17
Speaker
And by the way, this is not just for bisexual men, although many of my clients are bi men. It's really for anyone navigating any sort of identity, relationship, creative challenge in their life. Whether you're realizing something about yourself you can't ignore anymore, or if you feel like your identity is shifting and you're not sure what it means, maybe a relationship in your life is changing or needs to change.
00:04:42
Speaker
And that's creating tension. I love working with people who sense that there's something deeper calling them. If you don't fully understand it or trust it yet, that's perfect. That's what we will work on. But if something here resonates and you feel something deeper in you that wants to come out,
00:05:00
Speaker
Let's talk and we'll figure out how to get there. And I really do see magical things happening with my clients, big life transformations, both in individual and group coaching. If you have questions but aren't ready to book the first session yet, there's also a form on my website. You can send me any questions you have or you can book a free 15 minute discovery call. We won't get into coaching, but we can get to know each other and I'll answer any questions you
Interview with Jen: Bisexual Journey and Identity
00:05:26
Speaker
have. All right, let's get into it and hear from some BFFers.
00:05:30
Speaker
This first interview is with a woman named Jen. She is a bi icon and activist in her own right.
00:05:47
Speaker
Tell us a little about yourself and what brings here. um My name's Jen. I currently live in Orlando, Florida. ah The very first play party I ever attended in the year 2000 was Everyone Was Bi.
00:05:59
Speaker
Oh. Yes. That's unusual for the year 2000. It was. This was in Minnesota. At the time, in the Twin Cities, we had what was known as the Bisexual Resource Center. Oh, yeah. That still exists, yeah. so I was co-chair of the board of directors actually for that. Cool. And we had a play party and also realized we had a quorum for a board meeting at that party. Amazing. So I sort of like entered the lifestyle from the poly end of things. Met my husband in 2005.
00:06:31
Speaker
He's by we got involved in the local swinger community at that point. And we sort of found our tribe within that. um It was a group of friends. He hosted a party at his loft.
00:06:44
Speaker
um It became known as the fourth Friday fuck club. because Those with kids wanted to know far enough to advance so they could get a babysitter. And so we just kept the fourth Friday fuck club was born.
00:06:55
Speaker
um We left the Twin Cities in 2009 out to Key West. and moved out to key west P. West does not have the scene that most people would think it does because it's very fantasy-fest oriented and a lot of the locals that are in the lifestyle are very, very quiet about being in the lifestyle because they have kids and they're running local businesses and that sort of thing. So, fast forward BFF back in 2023, I discovered Ricky's Bi Events in Florida.
00:07:24
Speaker
Started attending the Tarvin Springs parties, went to Bi Week at Hedo and the second heard like BFF once at that initial bi-week. The second bi-week I went to BFF, BFF, BFF.
00:07:38
Speaker
And so I finally got my best friend Eli, who I've been trying to get to go to bi-week. um I'm like, dude, you live in LA. Come on, let's go.
00:07:48
Speaker
So we came to our first one in June and we were hooked. Cool. Love it I love that story. I met Eli too, in LA also. um What was your journey to like realizing you were bisexual before all that? um I actually had a super severe case of internalized homophobia. Because when I was very, very young, you know how like kids age four to six tend to be hypersexual? for place When I was in preschool, I had a quote unquote boyfriend and we would give each other little pet kisses and my parents like, oh, they're so cute. Everybody's like, oh, they're so cute. We would hold hands.
00:08:25
Speaker
And then there was a girl across the street who we got caught in her brother's fort in her backyard, actually sort of playing with each other, probably kindergarten ish.
00:08:38
Speaker
one of our brothers caught us and we were immediately, she was yanked out of our elementary schools, sent to Catholic school. Um, we were no longer allowed to even be outside at the same time. Whoever was outside first had other one couldn't go outside. So early message, okay with boys, not okay with girls. ahha So got to college, was stereotypical fag hag, was all for gay rights and everything. But whenever a woman would look at me, i would be like, I'm not like you. um
00:09:11
Speaker
I had, i slept with my sorority sisters three times. After the third time, she um asked me out on a date and I flipped my shit and I'm like, I'm not like you. I did that because I was totally, totally drunk.
00:09:26
Speaker
So I pushed that down, married a guy who was bi, got involved in a church-related queer organization, which is an oxymoron, I realize within itself.
00:09:40
Speaker
And then actually met three people who were bi. And I remember stating at the second annual event of that, I don't think I'm straight. I was in seminary at that point. Yes, I mean, to be a minister.
00:09:56
Speaker
But the church for me was actually someplace that I turned when I was coming out because it was a very supportive environment because the UCC is very, very progressive.
00:10:10
Speaker
They ordained the first out gay man in 1972. So, so Cool. i Also, I love your hair and tattoos just for people who can't see you. It's like, orange and red and purple and the tattoo is very colorful and all over. Can you tell us about like when and why you you got all that?
00:10:30
Speaker
So my very first tattoo was my first year of seminary. was a tie-dye peace sign. Everybody really drilled in. You have to get something that you really want for the rest of your life. And so for five years, I'm like, I want a tie-dye peace sign tattoo.
00:10:44
Speaker
So I got one. um i don't like needles. I hate the process of getting them. oh um but I struggle with chronic pain issues. And so this is a pain that I choose and it produces something beautiful.
00:11:00
Speaker
So um a phoenix is because at one point it felt like that I was sort of this phoenix rising. The first time being, had weight loss surgery, lost well over 200 pounds.
00:11:13
Speaker
So when that process was complete, I got the first one and then I got the second one during COVID. um because I'm a respiratory therapist. I did travel contracts throughout COVID.
00:11:25
Speaker
And i was in the hospital with COVID, very, very sick the first summer. And so, again, I felt like I was sort of re-rising again. So that's when I had it made bigger.
00:11:37
Speaker
My artist... is a dear friend. hum During COVID, she did a lot of work that she didn't want to have to do She's not a put this on my body kind of artist. She likes to create. She says she likes to paint on bodies. um And so she I basically kind of gifted her my body because she hadn't had anyone with big pieces that she could work on. And i just saw her light up in a way that she hadn't been lit up in a while. And I love her work and I was making decent money at the time. And so I'm like, yeah. And then i she gets out of my thigh. I'm like, when is this going to be complete?
00:12:15
Speaker
Oh wow, I didn't even see that part of it. Wow, that's huge. This part right here was not done by her, but everything else. It's so colorful. It's actually a lot of the bi colors. It's very pink, purple, blue, plus some like orange, yellow, green. And can you describe where on your body it is? So the phoenix is on my chest.
00:12:36
Speaker
There is a treble clef that is sort of under my left breast. Oh, I hadn't seen that. Music is at the core of who I am. And so she put it next to my heart.
00:12:48
Speaker
And then she's like, ooh, she's like, I see peacock feathers. And so, and peacock feathers are sort of another sign of rebirth. And so she went down.
00:12:59
Speaker
um and then She and I have disagreements over negative space. She loves negative space. I'm not a big fan of it. So she's like, well, let's do flowers. Let's do a group of flowers that'll go in there. And she's like, let's add some cherry blossoms up here. and And then I found a sticker that I really liked the coloring. but So that's where the turtle came from. And this was a little piece of negative space. And she's like, that's fine. I'm like, no, it's not. She's like, and she was like looking through a little drawing she done. She's like, oh a little Hello Kitty with rainbow. That's you.
00:13:33
Speaker
Riding a seahorse. yeah That's amazing. um And the back is all sea life. Oh, wow. Yeah. Look at that. Nanatee, turtles, some fish.
00:13:47
Speaker
So there is a different artist that's doing the sort of center of my back at the moment. But Lisa did the rest. What's it like to be in a space like this where everyone's pretty much naked a lot of the time and with and showing all, you
Mark's Transformative Experience at BFF
00:14:02
Speaker
know, this. ah Yeah.
00:14:03
Speaker
Well, in the group, since we're all posting our pictures and whatnot, I am very intentional about not posting anything that's like below my waist. because I sort of like the idea of a grand reveal.
00:14:17
Speaker
And there's a lot of people that will message me, Hey, I want to see your tattoos. What do you have? Blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, when the event happens, you'll see it. So I get a lot of like, just stopping it.
00:14:30
Speaker
Can I just, Is it okay? It's also very consent focused, which is awesome. The guys will be like, is it okay if I just rock at your artwork briefly? And will you turn around when I request? I'm like, yes. Because you'd have something like this and go to an event like this and expect to be behind this.
00:14:48
Speaker
You're a walking work of art. And everyone, everyone is a walking work of art, but especially you're like double. i People collect art. I collect my art on my body.
00:14:59
Speaker
Beautiful. Anything else you want people to know about BFF? It's amazing. um The sex is awesome. But for me and for, I would say, most others that are coming here repeatedly, it's about community.
00:15:15
Speaker
It's about finding your tribe. This is the first time I have found that tribe since 2009. um It is a pretty significant part of why I'm moving from Orlando to LA.
00:15:29
Speaker
My best friend Eli lives in LA and we spent a weekend together in Orlando. yeah know We hadn't seen each other at that point for three years and we we're like, that can never happen again. And he was like, Jen, I'm not moving to Florida.
00:15:42
Speaker
He was with me with the inauguration and we like just went out drinking, took an Uber. um But he was like, but you could move to l LA.
00:15:55
Speaker
and a respiratory therapist. I can get a job anywhere. um So I was leaning towards that. And then after being here in June, it was a done deal. Wow. So this this so was the deciding factor. I love it. I would say 70% Eli, about twenty five percent this event and five percent wanting to get the fuck out of florida yeah because it's
00:16:25
Speaker
I get that. Well, I'll see you in LA. Come visit. Excellent. Cool. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thank you. All right.
00:16:36
Speaker
That was Jen. Next up, we've got an interview with Mark, who was on the podcast last year with his boyfriend. Mark came back this year solo, and he was very popular this year because many new people had heard podcast.
00:16:52
Speaker
So enjoy this interview with Mark.
00:16:58
Speaker
So we're back with the famous Mark who has brought in a lot of new people to BFF. Welcome back to 2BuyGuys. So um so so what I interviewed you last year on this episode with your partner, Josh, husband Josh.
00:17:17
Speaker
So tell us, you know, you're back here this year. Tell us about this year. Yeah, BFF was so transformational for me to like get to express my buy side with kind of reckless abandon. And my husband also experienced situational buy-ness and enjoyed it. but' He does not feel the need to repeat it often. So our agreement is I can go to all of them and he will be by once a year with me. So we'll be at every summer together and then any other by event that I go to will be solo.
00:18:00
Speaker
Amazing. Lovely. I'm glad he allowed you to be here. I'm glad he'll be back next time. How's how's this one been for you? how does it compare? i mean, it's pretty much the same. the energy is incredible. i don't In my brain, like every day gets better and better. So day one, two, three, four, last time get better and better and better. Same with this time, like Thursday night, not a lot of people are here.
00:18:27
Speaker
it like, it was it every day just keep getting better and better. I love it. I love it. How's the bottom hang going? Oh, fantastic. ah So at Ho, which is another buy event, I got DP'd.
00:18:42
Speaker
um So now that's my favorite pastime. wow Yeah, i've I've come a long way. That's not easy to do, right? Yeah, so, well, selectively. So I couldn't handle like two gargantuan legs or something, but that's a feeder level. But I've enjoyed bottoming a lot. I would say we are, me and Josh have a game where we're keeping track of how many times I've um come without touching myself, which obviously never happened when I was topping. It has happened nine times now as a bottom. I understood alber's intellectually what a prostate orgasm was, but I have experienced several times and and then they Highly recommend.
00:19:29
Speaker
Amazing. I love it. And what's it been like to meet people who know you already from the last year's podcast? Yeah, I didn't even really think, I mean, obviously people listen to podcasts or you wouldn't have a job, but ah I got a message on Telegram about three months ago, like,
00:19:50
Speaker
Hey Mark, I wanted to reach out and like let you know that because of your and Josh's interview, i like came out to my wife and found BFF and we'll be there in the winter if you'd like to connect.
00:20:01
Speaker
And then um you know we exchanged pictures and there was mutual attraction and it progressed from like, I'd like to connect and at least meet you to like, you get my first load at BFF. And I did. So so yeah, and now like I feel like we're best friends and he'll he'll be at our house for Thanksgiving. like um So yeah, it's been interesting. I'm like, somebody said you're one of the BFF celebrities now.
00:20:31
Speaker
You know, when I started this podcast, it was really all about making connections for people to share loads with each other. So I'm glad it's finally coming to fruition. This is success. Cool. What are you learning about yourself over this like process of going to these parties, if anything?
00:20:50
Speaker
That I'm probably more by than I... ever admitted or knew. So like, what's been interesting for me is learning people's stories. And most of the guys here, this is their opportunity to hook up with other guys. And for me, mean, I have sex with a lot guys here, but for me, it's the opportunity and safe space to pursue women without being like a creeper.
00:21:16
Speaker
Like I would not know how to hit on a girl. And here I'm like, They're so beautiful. Can I suck? So, yeah. I have no emotional attraction to women, but very sexual. There is just an openness here about the women, too. And it's a sex-forward environment, but it is easier here to just like be honest and direct and yeah say what you want. cool Anything else you want people to know? If you want to experience like the most...
00:21:49
Speaker
authenticity possible in a very psychologically safe environment, BFF, for Orho, it's not the place to be. Cool.
00:22:00
Speaker
Thanks. I do want to say, it's so rude that Hot Rob can't have sex and he's here for four weeks. I mean, he can't have sex for four weeks and he's here for four days. torturing Yeah, yeah, what do you think of the fact that I decided to still come even though I'm doing this diet? Well, i could not do it. i bless you yeah sir and that that plant-based medicine better fucking change your life yeah well it is i'm learning a lot but uh i i will i've decided i'll just have double the sex next time to make up for it okay we will be here okay but i don't know if that's possible because like i feel like i reached my maximum like i have a limit i know you have no limit but i have a limit
00:22:42
Speaker
yeah so um Yeah, I'll be back. We'll make up for lost time. Well, you did bring your friend who I quite enjoyed. So thank you for that. yeah and I brought replacement Dick. I brought Angelo. ah So people would say, where's Josh? I'm like, well, he's not here, but that's to Angelo. And they're like, oh, okay.
00:23:04
Speaker
You guys got to bring a friend, bring a surrogate for when you're busy or doing a plant medicine diet. Cool. Well, thank you, Mark. Lovely to see you again. You too. I enjoy you.
00:23:18
Speaker
All right. That was Mark. Next up here is an interview with a BFF newbie who will remain anonymous. Enjoy this interview.
Newcomer's Exploration of Non-Monogamy and Sexuality
00:23:33
Speaker
Okay, so just tell us a little about yourself and what ground you're here. Ah, so I was invited by some friends. It wasn't something that I really sought out for myself, but I decided, you know, i like these people. They invited me. I'm going to give it a try. And and i've I've been to one and party before. This is my second party, and I'm a little little over my head, but I'm having a good time. I'm meeting people. Everyone is very kind. People are very thoughtful. um I like this group a lot, yeah.
00:24:05
Speaker
This is a pretty intense second play party to ever attend. It is, yeah. Yes, yes, yes. What was the first one? It was a birthday party with a friend who invited me. So I went, I had a good time, and and then they invited me back. So I decided to come to this. This one is big. Bigger than a small birthday party. I think that that's one the big differences, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:33
Speaker
And tell us about your journey of sexuality. Like when did you realize and how do you identify? Yeah, it's funny. I feel like my big, big struggle has been more like non monogamy because I opened up not too long ago and we're we're doing really well with it and everything. And it's it's good. But I came here. It's still a new vision that and so also new vision being like bisexual because i I haven't really been with the men before. And so I'm here and i'm I'm just kind of like, it's nice to share stories. It's nice to get to know people and like figure out what their journey was and kind of see
00:25:04
Speaker
what's similar to what I'm doing and realizing that it's not weird. You know, it's it's common. And I think it's important to have those conversations and to feel comfortable having those conversations because it's helped me a lot. So, yeah. That's cool you've got that here. Like, that was transformative for me. It was meeting other people. But for me, it happened in, like, a discussion group with all our clothes on. and But it can happen in a place like this, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. i think it makes you feel comfortable to feel connected. And people are very welcoming. And so I feel connected and I'm kind of like going at my own pace and people are being very respectful of that. And I think that's a a really key quality of things. I think that's, it's it's noble. it's love it
00:25:46
Speaker
Lovely. And what's, so what's the pace you've been going at and have you explored anything new since you've been here? I think people go to a sex party and it's certainly about the sex, right? Like, I think it's a, it's a huge motivator, but honestly, For me, it's like connection to it's like getting to know people. And so the big thing for me that I've done new quite honestly, it's not so much the sexual stuff. It's much more than just like getting the lay of the land and figuring out you know what girl what's going on. Yeah, you swear on the podcast. and I'm not familiar. What the fuck's going on? Yeah.
00:26:18
Speaker
And just like it sounds like opening up to people and sharing this stuff with them more. Exactly. Yeah. And that's a very personal thing that's difficult to talk about. So, yeah. But it's kind of like deconstructing a feeling of competitiveness for sure. Because I think there's a very easy tendency to feel competitive with other men. All the time. And when you open up and you share and you realize that you have some shared experiences, you're like, wait, shit, can kind of work together, have a good experience. And it's not, doesn't have to be this competitive thing. And yeah, I know there's some people who already hear that. Yeah, yeah.
00:26:58
Speaker
Yes, we can work together to get these women off. We don't have to compete for them. Yeah, yeah yeah that's i love that I love that frame. I think that's beautiful. That's pretty nice. Yeah, yeah. What, if anything, have you learned about yourself by being here?
00:27:13
Speaker
um So in terms of my like feelings of bisexuality, I think that like... I'm not i'm not super attracted to like the masculine physique, but i you know it's that's different from being like attracted to certain sex acts or being attracted to certain power dynamics. And I think that's what tends to arouse me. So it's kind of one of those things where I realized, oh shit, like I'm not... um like It's that that feeling.
00:27:45
Speaker
yeah When you're trying to figure out what what's the source of all that, it's like it can be so many different things. It's not just that one thing. Everyone a different experience. So I think for me, I kind was able to like figure that out for myself. Yeah, I totally agree. There's all these different aspects of what can be arousing, and people often boil it down to just gender or the way someone looks, and there's so many other factors. Cool. Any final thoughts?
00:28:13
Speaker
That's it. What I tend to find attractive is intelligence and people here tend to be very intelligent. So it's a nice place. Cool. Lovely.
Dr. Laurie Bennett Cook on Sex Positivity and Community
00:28:26
Speaker
Next up, we've got Dr. Laurie Bennett Cook, a clinical sexologist. Really fascinating interview here. Enjoy. Enjoy.
00:28:40
Speaker
Tell us a little about yourself. yeah Lori Benick-Pook, a clinical sexologist, former director of Sex Positive Los Angeles, founder and count of ah director of Sex Positive Utah on the advisory for Sex Positive World, and veteran BFF-er, which is the best the best of all the best. so How many BFFs have you been?
00:29:04
Speaker
ah I don't know. I moved out to Palm Springs during COVID 2020 and have been to all the BFFs since. So that's what this will be starting on six years. 11 or 12 of them, something like that. Wow. That's cool. What do you like about it?
00:29:21
Speaker
Okay. So honestly, the thing that I love the best about BFF is that the community and it's a group of people that like, you can go to parties, different places, and you can have, go to like,
00:29:33
Speaker
ah sex positive party, let's say. You can go someplace where people are like, yes, they're very open-minded and you can see a lot of play happening and you can see some queer activity. So people are very tolerant of queer activity taking place. This is a whole different level. This is a queer party and you will see all different types of play taking place and you will see people not tolerating what's going on but embracing it and celebrating it and If it's something you're not into, nobody's going to be like, ooh, that's gross.
00:30:04
Speaker
People are either into what you're into or they're indifferent about it, if that makes sense. It's just like, okay, that's not my thing. There's no yucking anything. It's just, and the friendships that you make here are some of the deepest and most profound Because you meet people at the core and the rawness of who they really are as a person.
00:30:24
Speaker
And once you meet somebody in that place, it's like there's nothing to censor yourself about anymore. You know? So you really get to just... form these incredible bonds with people.
00:30:35
Speaker
Yeah. Cool. I love it. Tell me a little more about your work too and how it's related to this. Oh gosh. So I work with my my entire clientele is people that are practicing or exploring or navigating on monogamy in some realm.
00:30:51
Speaker
um Whether they are soloed or partnered, doesn't matter, but they are just kind of navigating the world of sexual exploration in a non-monogamy space. So, yeah, this feeds into that because you get to recognize that, of course, there's no ownership of partner, and part of being a supportive person and partner in a relationship is that you get to support the whole person. and That means their sexuality, and very rarely does it involve you, you know?
00:31:16
Speaker
Yeah, like you can have shared experiences together, you can be attracted to each other, you can support each other through that, but it's not up to you to have, you know, you're responsible for your own orgasms and your own experiences, your own boundaries, etc.
00:31:33
Speaker
And while you can look out for each other, that still doesn't mean that you have be accountable for yourself, yeah. I've become a ah life coach the past couple of years. That's my new thing. and I'm mostly working with bi men and not everyone, but many of them are wanting to open up their marriage or working on non-monogamy. It's becoming, do you feel like it's becoming a bigger thing lately in society or has it always been like under the surface? You know, I think it's it's always been on some level, but it's becoming more and more acceptable.
00:32:04
Speaker
um And one of the reasons I think media plays a part in that, which is really cool because it's becoming, You hear more conversations around it. see more representations. We don't have any representations for any of this. We don't have any role models. When my husband and i got together 25 years ago, we'd been together for about three or four months when he told me that, you know, he came out and he's like, I just got to let you know before we get too serious. been married a couple times before. i am monogamous and I am not completely straight. And, you know, this was like really profound for him to admit these things. And I'm...
00:32:38
Speaker
you know, good little Mormon girl that didn't really know whole lot about anything else. And I'm like, I'm not really sure what that looks like for me. So I don't know. So, but we just kind of navigated together, but there weren't, there weren't any books to read at that time. There weren't any groups of people that we knew. We would have been super small town America, know, so it's like conservative place.
00:32:59
Speaker
Like, who do you talk to about any of that? So, I mean, we made a lot of humbles and mistakes along the way, but it was like, we're going to figure this out oh too. Um, And we've, you know, over time, finally we moved to Southern California, starting to find communities like, okay. But at the same time, it was still like, yes, there's again, you know, you go in spaces where there are most everybody's header, everything's heteronormative, everything's designed for heteronormative couple space, and there might be some bi play over here, or there might be some activity that you could engage with that person who showed who's also bi, or a gay man who wants to be with it. You know, it was it was very limiting.
00:33:41
Speaker
really But I think that obviously it's getting more profound now because we have BFF has been around for a while and it's only been a couple times a year, right? And then they started with HO, the Hedonistic Oasis Society. I don't know if we talked about that yeah already.
00:33:56
Speaker
They only have their first one last year and already the second one in March, all the rooms are already sold out loud and they're already booking for fall again already now. Hedonism, which is, you know, Jamaica, primarily very straight society, like anything that's not straight, pretty much illegal there except on the private space.
00:34:14
Speaker
They started doing their their grouping. ah have their The first time that they had their buy group sold out completely to the point that it's twice a year, completely sells out every single time twice a year. And that's only in the last couple years. so And then there's the group, the Dual Desires, that meets now. And that is a group that puts on buy hotel events, primarily on the East Coast, Atlanta, Florida, etc.,
00:34:38
Speaker
They sell out every single time. They put on many events. So people are catching on. What it comes down to, really, is people interacting with people. And it doesn't have to be, you know, like, oh, bi is a bridge to being gay, and which is what we're always told, because then gay is the great sin. So, yeah, yeah it's just enjoy yourself.
00:34:58
Speaker
Amazing. And do you identify as bi also? I do. When did you realize it was after your husband came out to you at some Yeah, because I didn't even know that it was really a thing, you know? It's nothing I would really been exposed to. um And then being in spaces, and for myself, I realized that it was more of a...
00:35:16
Speaker
I don't know, I didn't have to be like, okay, I like women too. I like, that yeah it was just more, i find that there are people whose energies I just really vibe with. yeah And if I'm just getting along with whoever that person is, in their energy and their vibe, then it's like, oh, this is, it's a magical moment.
00:35:31
Speaker
And I would hate to miss out on those things just because, oh but wait a second, your gender isn't aligned with what, it was like, just stop, you know? Right, sometimes realizing your body doesn't have to be like, oh yeah, i've I've been attracted to this gender before. It could just be like an openness. I'm attracted this person. Right, and not cutting something off before you actually see what it feels like. Right, right. yeah And then, I mean, I think that if we don't,
00:35:57
Speaker
realize that most people have probably found they've been attracted to a certain person people without recognizing that it is a bi or pan or any kind of fluid sexuality and just being like, oh, this is something about this person I really get along with, I really enjoy their company, or there's some kind of electricity that happens when we're together.
00:36:18
Speaker
And just let that be. like Stop trying to analyze every little thing. We'd do so much better sexually and relationally if we stop trying to analyze everything and just allow ourselves the connections that we feel. Because it's authentic and it's caring. and it's I feel very loved and cared for in this community.
00:36:38
Speaker
Really, really do. People show up for each other in a really precious way. Not just here to play to develop fantasies, but, you know, in other deeply personal ways.
00:36:50
Speaker
Beautiful. Do you have any advice for people just beginning to explore non-monogamy? Yeah. Don't have too many expectations. And just be open to being open to what comes your way. because you'll surprise yourself.
00:37:06
Speaker
Yeah, let yourself be surprised. That's what life is about, finding something new and being open, you know, surrendering to the experience of life. Yeah, cool.
00:37:17
Speaker
I'm always amazed when we come here and we will come and see these people that are like in their 20s. I'm like, God, could you imagine having yourself that figured out at such a young age and not waiting until we're like, you know,
00:37:31
Speaker
40 whatever to try something new. I'm brave enough to, you know, do something. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I wish. And it's and what I've seen here, too, is it's never too late. too You can explore yourself no matter what's happened before. You can do it now. man I know we see people like, and like, those are aging goals right there. yeah And I don't know how the stamina that they do, but you know, they're goals. yeah Totally cool. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast. You bet.
00:37:59
Speaker
Enjoying. Thank you for spreading the word. Okay. We have one, one more thing. What's the advice, other piece of advice you have? Probably the most powerful and precious piece of advice that I can give is that We, shame is on us. We carry our shame and nobody can shame you for what you own.
00:38:17
Speaker
So own yourself, whatever that looks like. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. All right. That was Dr. Laurie Bennett cook. Next up, we've got Lynn who happens to be a neighbor of an interviewee from last year's BFF episode, Don.
Lynn's Path to Authenticity and BFF's Influence
00:38:38
Speaker
So here is Yeah.
00:38:44
Speaker
It's my first time at BFF and my neighbor, Don, who you know, was on last year's podcast episode about BFF. And he had an amazing time and um he honestly is my inspiration. He's like a North Star.
00:39:05
Speaker
oh He is so giving of himself and I feel all the time that he spent fighting himself to walk into his authentic self and to be witness to that.
00:39:20
Speaker
And, uh, so anyway, sorry, i just means so much to me. And, um, so coming here was just like ah my own path and walking in my own and and continuing just exploration.
00:39:37
Speaker
and being present and people without clothes you don't have the artifice and so you you can't hide you can only be who you are and you're presented with you have to accept the person in front of you for who they are and the amazing thing is is that people do We go through so much of our life thinking that, oh, if I'm a real person, I'm not going to have friends. I'm not going to be liked. I'm going to lose everything that i have. But then you come here and you discover that you can be you.
00:40:16
Speaker
You can be all you. And people will see you and hold you and love you and then want to be with you intimately And it is so sacred. I mean, there is, like I tell people, I don't want to tell certain people the vanilla world about this because I really feel it's, it's, there's a, there's a sanctity to it that needs to be held and honored.
00:40:44
Speaker
because very few come to this life or this place on an easy road. It was full of potholes and and and a lot a lot of lot of pain and self-doubt.
00:40:58
Speaker
And this is so beautiful. And so I just had this amazing time seeing all these people, just being and just watching and just feeling the energy um men being with men because it's so damn sexy. And if me as a woman can provide some sort of energetic, um,
00:41:22
Speaker
exchange of like yeah compliment you how sexy you look in that lingerie how sexy you look on the dance floor because again society doesn't allow that and these guys you look at when they were how old they are when they were raised and the messaging back then it was about you know boys don't cry blah blah blah blah blah And you know, it's just, it's just so real. So yeah. So. Beautiful. I hear the emotion in your voice talking about Don and it really is like, you know, the examples we see, like sometimes we just don't know and you don't know it's possible. And then when you meet someone who's gone through it, it's so inspiring. And so I love that. it's validation. It's validation.
00:42:09
Speaker
ae But then on the back side of that is beating up of yourself, of how long you took, how long life you've let slip.
00:42:20
Speaker
and And to that, I would say to anyone, that when I see people that are in their 20s and 30s that are doing this, I'm like, yes, you got it early.
00:42:33
Speaker
Yes, you got the messaging. Those of us that come to it later in life, you know it was like, I told someone, you when you like you come here, you feel like it's going to be a 20-foot wall.
00:42:44
Speaker
It really is a picket fence, and all all you got to do is open the gate. You know, and but it's that. And so you have to deal with the internal. i the could have, should have, would have.
00:42:55
Speaker
But the realization is, is that you can't change the past. You can only do now. And for any one of your listeners that is like, so not sure, please just step into the light because it it it really is that simple.
00:43:13
Speaker
Yes. I love that metaphor that it's it's just a picket fence. It might look scary, but you can open that door and get to the other side at any time. And it is this is a sacred space. I love that word you used. I mean, it really, you look around, you could call it like crazy and depraved, and like but it actually is through all that craziness. It is sacred. Well, and that's why like right now you see people leaving.
00:43:39
Speaker
And it's like our tribe is dissipating out into the world. And the example I used earlier is is this is what probably Olympians feel. You come together every four years.
00:43:50
Speaker
You only see these people, but then everyone dissipates. and And the idea of the Olympics is to peace and come together. So we take a little bit of part of this community and we take it out into our worlds and Maybe we're a little nicer, a little understanding, a little bit more accepting, or or we hear someone say something, that oh, let me let me hold your hand and I will guide you along.
00:44:18
Speaker
um And so it's like, it is it's like we're all our little missionaries, our own little tribe, all of the things. Yeah. I mean, it's like we come here and we're having fun and having sex, but like it is, we're doing work here. We're doing work with each other. We're doing work that will then, you know,
00:44:37
Speaker
ripple out to the other people we interact with and it's important work we're doing. I love that. It's mental, but it's also soulful. yeah It's spiritual yeah and it's it's core memory creation, yeah um which, you know, we think we got are done making core memories after whatever age.
00:44:56
Speaker
No, they can be made at any age. Yeah. Cool. And i like I've been saying, we see sex all around us, but you see everything at BFF, including a nice little flute background music during this interview. There's somebody knitting across the pool. You see a little bit of everything here. Yeah. yeah um or yesterday a very sexy woman woman putting her foot into a man you know all the way you know so we see all the things but but it's accepted and it's normal and and it's like that's a that's a normal day at bf amazing perfect note to end on cool thank you so much
00:45:35
Speaker
that was lynn next up we've got an interview with piglet enjoy piglet
00:45:45
Speaker
My name is Piglet and I come here because this is where all of my best friends are and after seven years in the vanilla lifestyle we met this group of people and it literally changed our
Piglet's Gratitude and Relocation Decision
00:45:58
Speaker
lives. like We have met closer connections and more authentic people in this group.
00:46:04
Speaker
Just wonderful wonderful conversations and even more wonderful orgasms. like I just i get to come here and hang out with my best friends and have a lot of sex and a lot of great conversations. And when these trips are coming up, I look forward to the conversations as much as the orgasm. Like for sure it is.
00:46:23
Speaker
ah This community is super special and I am so thankful to be a part of it. Beautiful. As someone who's not having sex at this BFF, I have gotten just as much pleasure from the conversations this year. And I'm noticing that more that without my focus on that. Right? Right? It's amazing how it all coexists, though. We were able to bring all of the energy together. Right? Totally. And i am i'm just I'm super, super grateful. And I'm so grateful I met you because this experience has been fantastic. I'm amazing. I'm glad. Before i ask you another question, do you want to just like narrate what we're seeing? Cause it's, oh I feel like, I don't know. Is that, would you be interested doing?
00:47:04
Speaker
Let's see. Well, I can, I can see. you No names, but you know. No, no, no. So we've got, we've got a lovely ass humped there and another one laying behind when both of those people are very actively eating others that seem to be Definitely enjoying what's happening, whilst also feasting on another person with cock and mouth, and then i think there's two cocks and mouths. There's all kinds of magnificent things happening on that wonderful bed full of beautiful humans. I think they're all enjoying your narration now.
00:47:35
Speaker
I can't even tell if that's five people or six people. All right, hang on. One, two, three, four, five. I believe it is six. We can verify. Yes, there are six bodies. Beautiful humans. Remember me? That's Steve. He was on the podcast last year. Hi, Steve. Hi, Steve. Amazing, amazing. So how many of these have you been to? This is our seventh. So we met the BFFers at Hedonism in Negril, Jamaica.
00:48:01
Speaker
Huh? no No, we'll talk later. ah We met this group of people at Hedonism um four years ago, and they convinced us to come to our first January BFF, and that January was the worst weather they had seen in years. It rained, it was 50, it was awful. We still came back for six more.
00:48:22
Speaker
And so this is our seventh. We've been to every BFF since that one. So it's been three years now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We would not be moving to California if it weren't for this group of people.
00:48:33
Speaker
Oh, yeah. You're not the first person to say they've moved closer to here because of this. Yes. Yes. Yes. And there are lots of reasons. And BFF is certainly in the top five. A hundred percent.
00:48:44
Speaker
Is there anything after coming that many times that surprised you this time or that still comes up that's new for you? You know, I've seen quite a bit over my experience in the lifestyle that there isn't really anything that surprises me, but I'm always super excited to see people achieve whatever goals they're reaching for. Like our friend who had a foot in his ass and my friend who went on a walkabout of fun with lots of sensory experiences and jazz and our other friend who had 57 fucks for her birthday and actually was 58 because one for good luck. But you know what i mean? We were able to help people.
00:49:20
Speaker
achieve goals that they really want to fulfill. And that' that's great for me. I love that. Very cool. Anything else you want people to know about this event or about this lifestyle in general?
00:49:33
Speaker
It makes me happy. And seeing all of these wonderful, beautiful, happy humans that we're able to hang out and have such a good time, it just makes me happy. And I want to push as much happiness and positivity into the world as I can. so but beautiful They all look very happy, the six of them.
Spencer's Bisexual Identity and Community Impact
00:49:50
Speaker
yeah I had this experience yesterday of walking around without having sex, noticing it differently and realizing, oh, everyone just wants to make each other happy and make each other feel good and please each other and not even necessarily receive it, but but to give it. And I just, that's what I saw everywhere I walked. It was beautiful, actually.
00:50:09
Speaker
This community is amazing. Lovely. Thank you so much. Thank you.
00:50:18
Speaker
That was Piglet, and now finally we've got one more interview this episode with Spencer.
00:50:28
Speaker
My name is Spencer. I live in Oakland, California. I and a queer adult cis man. And I came here because I found BFF through an online chat group.
00:50:43
Speaker
And I've been looking for more by play. And it took me a few years, but I finally got in and this is my seventh BFF. Whoa, seventh. How has it changed over time over those seven for you?
00:50:56
Speaker
It just gets better every time. It's like going to camp. It's like when you when you get here, you find your people that you love and see every year and you cry when you leave and you never want to put your clothes on when you have to leave the resort.
00:51:10
Speaker
That is an interesting metaphor like camp because it is. I never thought about that, but I am starting to like get more and more comfortable each time. Some nakedness in the pool. Yeah. And like weirdly, or I remember at camp like there was a lot of homoeroticism, although it wasn't allowed. It was different than this. But did you have that? What kind of camp did you go to? Was it like that? I went to a super, super Christian equestrian camp ah in Arkansas, which was like brainwash city. Like that's what they were doing. They were brainwashing children into being Christians. And the first year i went home and I tried to convince all my friends to become Christians. That lasted about two days. And then the next year I went just for girls because I was like 11, you know, and I was starting to have sex and my first actual sexual experience was with a guy my best friend taught me how to jerk off and then a couple of days later we were sucking each other's dicks wow yeah so yeah and what did you think back then or like were you conscious of the a bi identity or when did that all not at all and and i lived in arkansas so it was very taboo and i actually lost my virginity with that guy and a girl in it my first ever mfm Wow. Yeah. Yeah. yeah So, um but yeah, it was scary.
00:52:25
Speaker
was awesome. But and and when it there was two of us, it was, it was really cool. We we had this secret with the was two of us, but then one day he invited another guy in and, and it was just like, I just knew better. i was like, this is not going to end well.
00:52:41
Speaker
We're going to be found out. And so I stopped doing it So, um but I knew that that wasn't going to end well, so we didn't ever do it again. and then I probably had my next by experience around 16, but that wasn't consensual.
00:52:59
Speaker
i did it because I was in a vulnerable position with a person of power. And I thought at the time that it was like, okay, even though i didn't want to do it. And later I learned in therapy that that was abuse. it's something i've had to recover from over time with lots of therapy um what what do you like about being here at bff i love the freedom of just being myself you know and like what i really love is when i can just like reach my hand out and touch anybody and know that it's okay
00:53:33
Speaker
You know, I can stroke a man's chest or his leg or grab, do the BFF handshake. And for those of you who don't know what a BFF handshake is, it's when you grab the other person's cock and shake it to greet them. Come enjoy a BFF handshake.
00:53:49
Speaker
Yeah, what do you want other people to know about this place? Look, I grew up in Grateful Dead culture. I followed the Grateful Dead. I followed fish for most of my, all of my adult life. I've been a member of this massive community that like when, when I go see, when I went to see the dead or when I would go see fish, I leave there with this feeling that I'd never feel anywhere else in the whole world of like community, community,
00:54:19
Speaker
just full, my cup is full. i don't know what the fuck just happened to me. And honestly, this is the only other thing that is ever compared to that at all. and and And that's saying something.
00:54:32
Speaker
yeah So yeah, like I said, it's like camp. I can't wait to get back next time. And and it's just super fun. Did you feel that the very first time or were you nervous? Oh, no. I was excited. I was excited. I wasn't nervous at all. i was excited. And bullet up my mind was high-density brain splatter against the wall. you know It was fucking awesome.
00:54:52
Speaker
Cool. Yeah. And was it like when did you actually kind of start coming out as bi or how out are you and how did you get to that point? So I actually... i only really came out as by in the last like maybe six or seven, eight years maybe. And and the in the way I do it is I'm if if someone asks me I'm wide open, but I'm not going to go just like say, walk up to somebody i say, Hey, guess what? I'm bi.
00:55:23
Speaker
You know, like they can figure it out on their own. And if they ask, I don't lie. yeah You know, I'm very proud of who I am. And honestly, I feel like every person that I talk to about it, it might try to trigger them to maybe realize that they may be a little bit bi and maybe they could, you know, a I'm a facilitator of people's journeys. And so that's like, I feel like I was put on this earth to to help people, you know, like get to where they need to be and anything I can do to do that I'm always willing to. Cool. I want to be a facilitator of people's journeys also. I guess I already am, but I want to do it in other ways too. What does that mean outside of this context if you want to share?
00:56:00
Speaker
um Well, like, so like, you know, ah example, i have ah I have a partner that is a trans guy and he's only 23 years old. He's a UC Berkeley, um, uh, student. And he, after a shit he's, he's really trying to like get into anal and, and I am like helping him get through it. So our relationship is less like daddy,
00:56:29
Speaker
you know, whatever, it's more student mentor, you know, and like, and so like our, our, our sex is very talked about throughout the whole thing. And it they're, they're a computer science, uh, uh, major. And, and so they're very technical and they always want to, and it's just so fun to like help people. Like I, if I had someone like me when I was a kid or younger, i would, I don't know where I'd be right now, but you know, often most of my friends tell me I should be a therapist. And so I'm very empathetic. I'm a cancer.
00:57:04
Speaker
help people with their, you know, problems all the time. Yeah. Cool. Amazing. You know, I used to think like when I would come out to people or share my story, I would worry about how it would affect me or what are they going to think of me or what is the consequence of being out for me in this situation. And at some point it shifted, like you were saying to like, well, I might be able to affect them. Like how might they.
00:57:28
Speaker
like it may not Like, whatever, I'm protected now. I feel good about it. Nothing can really change my identity. But it's like, they might learn something if I'm out to them. And I see it a little differently now. And it's it's a it's a nice shift. yeah There's responsibility to it, but it feels nice. And I love that responsibility. honest I love the the feeling of that responsibility. Like, I'm a facilitator of people's journeys. and And the greatest feeling that I can get is when someone comes up to me ah day, a year, 10 years later and says, Hey man, you turned me on to this and it changed my life. yeah That's like, that's like the most fulfilling, you know thing I can ever imagine. Yeah, totally agree. And i had a little of that at BFF because people have listened to this podcast and come to BFF and yeah explored things. see I'm like, great. glorious facilitator Cool. Thank you. Any final thoughts?
00:58:25
Speaker
Just to, you know, yourself, love who you are, and just, you know, follow your bliss. Lovely.
00:58:36
Speaker
Thank you, Spencer. Thank you.
00:58:42
Speaker
All right, that was Spencer, and that concludes today's installment of this series about BFF. Stay tuned, we've got one more episode coming up with two more interviews from the event, plus an extended interview with Brad and Tracy, the organizers of the event that I conducted a few weeks after last BFF. You won't want to miss that. Check the show notes for instructions to contact Brad and get on the list for BFF. You can't just Google it, but you can get on the list. That's all I got for you today. Thanks for listening to Two Bye Guys by One Bye Guy.
00:59:21
Speaker
Two Bye Guys by One Bye Guy is produced and edited by me, Robert Brooks Cohen, and it was created by me and Alex Boyd. Our logo art is by Caitlin Weinman. Our music is by Ross Mincer.
00:59:32
Speaker
To learn more about my individual and group coaching offerings, visit robertbrookscohen.com. And to help support this podcast, visit patreon.com slash robertbrookscohen. You'll get full video episodes, early access, and bonus content.
00:59:46
Speaker
Thank you for listening to Two Bye Guys by One Bye Guy.