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The Things We Don't Talk About with "The Kink Consultant" Amanda Dames
1 Playsin 13 hours
It's our 99th episode! (Maybe? Sort of? I haven't done the math...) And it's a great one. My guest Amanda Dames is a certified sex and relationship coach, former New York City dominatrix, and founder of The Kink Consultant. In this fascinating conversation, we explore the surprising overlaps between kink and bisexuality, plus we dive into shame, communication, and authentic self-expression.
Amanda shares her journey from discovering her own kinky desires at a young age to becoming a coach who helps individuals and couples navigate kink and fetish without shame. We discuss how and why couples struggle when one partner has desires the other doesn't share, how fantasies can actually strengthen intimacy, and why trust, consent, and honest communication matter far more than any specific sexual interest.
Whether you're kinky or not, this episode is about something bigger: learning to embrace the parts of ourselves we've been taught to hide. Sound familiar??
*This episode contains 5 minutes of bonus content on Patreon only beginning at around the 54-minute mark. Subscribe for bonus content, early access, and to help support this podcast: www.RobertBrooksCohen.com
In this episode:
- Amanda's path from professional dominatrix to kink coach
- The surprising parallels between kink and mixed-orientation relationships
- The difference between a kink and a fetish
- Why shame keeps so many people disconnected from themselves
- How couples can navigate differing desires without resentment
- Why fantasies aren't a threat to intimacy
- Masculinity, submission, and challenging cultural assumptions
- Consent, communication, and building trust in relationships
Connect with Rob: www.RobertBrooksCohen.com
Connect with Amanda:
· Website: https://www.amandadames.com/
· Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_kinkconsultant/
· Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thekinkconsultant/
· TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@the_kinkconsultant
· YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thekinkconsultant
· Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-kink-consultant/id1766435920
· Guide for couples with mismatched desire to have more open and honest conversations in a safe framework: https://www.amandadames.com/Speak-Your-Desires-with-Confidence-opt-in-1
· BDSM Menu for couples who are curious to explore each other's kinks: https://www.amandadames.com/bdsmlist
· Amanda's Swingcation discount code: TKC50
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Transcript
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Two Bye Guys. I think this is like my 99th episode, actually, because it's episode nine of season 10, if the math works out correctly.
00:00:24
Speaker
So i I'm excited to have you here for this historic episode. um Welcome to 2-Bye Guys. I'm fascinated by what you do and what you work on. Amanda Dames is with us. She is known as the kink consultant. She is a sexologist, a certified sex and relationship coach, a former New York City dominatrix, specializing in kink, intimacy, and communication.
00:00:50
Speaker
Her work's been featured in Cosmopolitan, Huffington Post, Women's Health, much more. She has a podcast and a YouTube channel called The Kink Consultant, and she helps individuals and couples explore desire without shame, make conversations around intimacy more approachable and rooted in consent and connection.
00:01:09
Speaker
We love it all. Welcome to Two Bye Guys, Amanda Dames. Thank you for having me on, but I'm not going to just let you skip over this is episode 99. You better be doing something special for episode 100. That much I will say.
00:01:23
Speaker
That's a good, I mean, I actually haven't thought about it. I've actually planning. I'm about to stop recording and be like, no, we need to plan something now. Okay, go on. What have you been doing? I've been planning episode 101 because in season 11, I'm going to move into a new era of the podcast and stay tuned, everyone, for what that means um coming very soon.
00:01:47
Speaker
But I kind of skipped over 100 and I don't have a plan and I don't even have a guest. like what What do you think I should do? I don't know, but I think you should put it out to like whatever your biggest social media following is, put it out to them because I'm about to have episode of 100 of my podcast in a few weeks. And one of my former clients reached out and said, why don't you interview all the people you've helped or like a couple of us? And I thought, who would do that? And she said, me And then I was like, oh, maybe I should reach out to more people. So now my 100th episode is a compilation of people I've coached. And I think you could possibly do the same. who like People who I helped and they want to share it like proactively. I reached out. I said, no pressure. And they were like, we'd love to share our story. So that's what I'm doing for 100.
00:02:34
Speaker
Maybe you could do something similar. That actually sounds like a great idea. And um actually, I know multiple clients I've had in my coaching practice who have literally said, can I come on your podcast? And I'm like, yeah, maybe. And I'm just like so slow and lazy this season with the podcast. But um there's people that want to share their stories and it's healing for them. It's part of their journey to do it like it was for me.
00:03:01
Speaker
And I forget that I matter in that way. oh for crying out. Do you see this? Do you? so Are you still there? Yeah. Uh huh. There was a flicker, but it's okay. My internet goes, everything goes out. Okay. Sorry. I forget that I am a coach who does amazing work and helps people to the point that they are excited, but I forget the side of it that other people get hope in that as well of knowing their situation can be helped because I really focus on working with people who are one person is kinky and the other is not kinky. And how do you align desire? I'm not sure if you've run into a situation like that ever, but ah um I realized there's a lot of people out there who haven't. I'm sure. Yeah. Your clients will be the same wanting to share their story. It's healing to share, but also helpful to give hope to people who think, oh, this is useless. It's never going to fix itself.
00:03:52
Speaker
It does. Well, it doesn't. You work with someone and work on it. you you can work on it, you can work on You can work on it. Exactly. wow Yeah. So I hope to hear that in your one hundredth episode. Cool. um That sounds fascinating. I really want to get into what you do and what you just mentioned. And it actually is quite similar to a lot of the coaching I do in a different realm, which is mostly bisexual men. And most of them are in mixed orientation marriages with a straight woman. And so it's not a kink thing, but it's, um it's you know, different orientations and an experience that they don't share, but then have to integrate somehow. And so i'm I am curious to hear if there are parallels to that. Oh, I'm already hearing parallels. And I'm like, yep, the way you even said it. I'm like, yep, there parallels. Well, let you know, I have other, I was going to ask you about you, but while we're on it, like how, so how do people integrate that when there's one kinky one and one not? Like, what do you work on?
00:04:53
Speaker
So the first thing I've started to notice is that when there's one kinky one, by the time they get to me, this might not be applicable to every kinky non-kinky partnership, but It has become such i call it the thing being the kink and the thing gets so over talked about that the non kinky partners desire and fantasy, they de-prioritize it themselves. So by the time they come to me, they say something like, I don't have any fantasies. And all they actually mean is I don't have fantasies like the thing being the kink. And I actually focus on equaling the playing field here because
00:05:30
Speaker
I want the non-kinky partner to realize they also have fantasies and desires that are just as valid as their ah kinky partners. And oftentimes I am going to, 90% of my clientele is um a kinky man and a non-kinky woman.
00:05:44
Speaker
And that, so I will often default to using that descriptor, even though it's not all of my clients. And what I'll say is I help women understand first and foremost, your desire can be romance. Your fantasy can be romance. You can want to be wined and dined and taken on a helicopter ride of the city, over the city.
00:06:01
Speaker
And that could turn you on and make you feel special. If feeling like a princess is is something that sounds nice to you, that can be your fantasy too. So I try and level the playing field here and say, okay, how do you both meet each other's needs so that it's not just one person doing the work? Because it never is just one person who needs to do the work. It's not the non-kinky partner who needs to level up.
00:06:23
Speaker
Oftentimes it's the kinky partner who it's like, the reason your partner isn't indulging your kink isn't because I mean, sometimes it's that they're like, really, it's not their thing, but oftentimes it's like, you're not showing up for them in a way that makes them want to go above and beyond and show up for you. And I hate to be that blunt about it, but you know, you get into the everyday life and the schedules. I mean, I've seen people's calendars. They've shown me them and they're like, well, we just don't have time X, Y, Z. And I'm like, if you have time to fantasize about this and have this kink, you have time to take out the garbage, you know? and it's like, yeah and I literally mean taking out the garbage. It's about showing up for each other in ways that matter and make the other person feel seen. So that's step one for me. And oftentimes that's like such a large part of the work that once that gets sorted, things get a lot easier. But there are cases where I have to,
00:07:14
Speaker
deconstruct what society has told non-kinky partner about masculinity, feminism, and how a fantasy does not actually make you less of a feminist. It doesn't make your partner less masculine for wanting specific things. So we work through things like that. Is that something you also have to work with couples on? Yeah. I mean, there's a ton of overlap already, but like yeah it's almost identical, the the process that ah many of my clients go through because So not all of my clients, but I work with a lot of people who are coming out as bi later in life and they're married to a bi man married to women and they haven't explored their sexuality with men and they want to and they want to open things up or try different things. And sometimes that's with their wife involved. Sometimes that's separate and they want to really open things up.
00:08:06
Speaker
And it's exactly the dynamic that you've described. Like, this isn't necessarily a kink. And I want to ask you, what is a kink in a moment? But like, this is a non-kinky sexual desire for a different gender.
00:08:20
Speaker
But it's this need or desire or like unfulfilled fantasy that the men have. And they're asking their wives for something. And there's often not a reciprocal, like,
00:08:31
Speaker
focus on what are their wives' desires and needs and wants. And many of those women, you know, I'm working with some of those women as well, and I do group coaching for both men and women. And some of the women will say, you know, talk about how like they're feeling left behind and like their needs don't matter, but their desires and needs are not necessarily sexual.
00:08:51
Speaker
Like they're happy in the bedroom with their husbands. They don't need anything more there. But they like you said, they might have a desire that's more romantic or just about spending time or being taken care of in some way or showing affection.
00:09:06
Speaker
And it's all about being seen and feeling seen. But now I have a question back for you. um Something that happens a lot in the kink world is sort of like, well, were you hiding this? Did you know I wouldn't have married you if I had known?
00:09:20
Speaker
This is what I call it. This is just reactive. like reasoning of sort of this thing of, let me see how I can avoid interacting with how painful and difficult this process is going to be because it is, it's difficult to change, right? It's not painful in the way of, oh my God, I hate every second of it. It's just sometimes the status quo is nice and you've been surviving in it for so long, the idea of changing.
00:09:44
Speaker
is scary at all. So it sort of becomes this, so this is why I call it the thing, the thing that you've made a secret and you hid from me. And now you're expecting me to indulge this when you could have told me and I could have avoided this pain earlier.
00:09:58
Speaker
But I often find out that it's been shared in one shape or form earlier in the relationship, but it was easy for both partners to ignore, for one to stay quiet and the other to just um kind of stay blind to it. yeah And they go for so long without it until it becomes like, they really start to feel the effects of hiding that side of themselves. Does that also happen with your clients? Okay, I'm loving this. I'm like, okay, we do the same job.
00:10:24
Speaker
Yeah, basically. I mean, my listeners will probably just feel like you're talking about them. Like that's exactly how it goes. It's just not a kink. It's a it's a sexual orientation. And like they...
00:10:37
Speaker
often have had some idea their whole lives or like didn't think it was that important because they're marrying a woman. But many times when they're coming out later in life, it was mentioned in the past or it was mentioned when they first started dating. But it wasn't mentioned as like an identity or an ongoing thing. It was mentioned as like, yeah, I have these attractions or I've thought about this or I had an experience with a guy in college and it was it was fun. Like,
00:11:05
Speaker
these casual mentions that often to the men will feel like they have disclosed it. And then to the women years later, when it comes up again, they'll be like, yeah, i remember you said that, but I didn't think that like meant anything. And I didn't sign up for this, for you to bring this back into our marriage 30 years later or whatever. And, and it's, and it suddenly becomes a big issue and a miss, you know, there's this miscommunication. Yeah. Yeah. I'm actually seeing one huge difference though that I want to call out is for my clients, they have two options if they want to pursue it. One is to for the non-kinky partner to try and learn more and become
00:11:48
Speaker
the kinky partner or indulge the desire, right? And meet their partner where they're at. The other option I tell my clients, should they choose it, is for that person to um explore it outside of the relationship. And kink isn't always sexual.
00:12:02
Speaker
Sometimes kink is just, it's almost like a very elaborate role play. Oftentimes it is a very elaborate role play. And for your clients, they have to go outside of the relationship to explore their desire. And that kind of limits their options, but also it makes the the discussion a lot clearer. i imagine too, it's like, this is what we're discussing and this is the option versus not at all. Whereas my clients, while it sounds good to have two options, I do think it creates some confusion of, oh no, what should I do?
00:12:32
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. um In order to explore ah sex with men, you you can't really do that with a woman. So like that the question the first question these couples will sort through is, like do I need to explore this in reality in my body? Or is it enough to just be able to talk about it and have this identity and like maybe it opens up?
00:12:58
Speaker
things they might try in the bedroom with toys or kinks that kind of approximate things but aren't aren't really being with a man. but But maybe they don't need it. Like some people I've worked with don't need to open up their marriage. It's enough to just...
00:13:14
Speaker
be themselves and be authentic and be able to share it. But then but then many do need to to explore it. And that really has to happen in some way by opening up the marriage. So it's a more once you make that decision, then it's more straightforward. But it's a big it's ah it's very uncomfortable for many women who have been monogamous their whole lives.
00:13:36
Speaker
Yeah, and I understand it, especially because society tells you, i mean, the messaging that we all got. I'm 37. I'm not sure of your age, but late 41. Oh, okay. Yeah. To me, this is all the same age. Okay. So yeah I think I still remember we were in, well, I was growing up in Ireland, but you were, i'm assuming growing up in America. So you were in high school and even middle school and people coming out as gay or bisexual, more so bisexual at the time, it was sort of like, well, that's a choice. And then there's a lot of messaging you get then at that age being told,
00:14:10
Speaker
um oh, they could choose to just be straight or they they're doing it for attention. There were all of these messages that we were getting, i think, in middle school, or at least I was hearing. And I think that for the person who isn't living with this, doesn't have this desire, isn't sexually oriented this way.
00:14:28
Speaker
They just remember that. And I do feel for people who that's the societal construct we're trying to deconstruct with people when they first hear about their partner, because it's like, oh no, we need to go back to what you started learning in middle school and attack that way of thinking before you really can become comfortable with it. And maybe that happens in 10 minutes where we're like, oh, everything you were told was dumb and you should just forget it. And someone can be like like, You're right. It was dumb. I also was learning to yo-yo at the same time. And that was dumb too. Or it takes like a couple of sessions where they're like, no, but my dad wasn't like this. And I had their are ideas of manliness or things like that. That is something that comes up a lot for my clients when their partner wants to be submissive. The idea is how can they be submissive and still be my protector or whatever it is that they want, whatever identity they've given their partner.
00:15:19
Speaker
to be strong and a leader and everything a husband or man was supposed to be, you know, yeah you know, the stories people hear or the things people are supposed to be attacking. That is a huge part of getting people to be a little bit more understanding. I don't even know why i went on that rant, but thank you for letting me go on it. Yeah.
00:15:37
Speaker
um Fascinating. I'm taking some notes because i love I want to come back to this and what you're saying. um that makes so no That makes so much sense. because like And that's part of why it was difficult for me to come out as bi because I had internalized all these things that I had learned. and And for me, coming out was very tied to exploring kink. And actually, they were so intertwined kink. And both of them were were shedding a similar kind of shame. So they were helpful alongside each other. Yeah.
00:16:09
Speaker
Oh, it's all shame. It's ah like, that's what it all boils down to. And I actually just, i I struggle to find how shame plays a part in today's society in a really positive way when it comes to ourselves and our own sexuality.
00:16:23
Speaker
I believe shame can be helpful to help you be a thoughtful person and put your grocery cart away, but not in terms of expressing who we are as people. Yeah, beautiful.
00:16:42
Speaker
I have to get to you and hear it like hear a little of your story, at least like, how did you end up at this point doing this kind of work? Like, what's your personal journey towards all this? Oh, so I figured out no, I didn't figure it out.
00:16:57
Speaker
I was obsessed with spanking at five years old. And the reason I say it like that is it's as weird as it sounds to a five-year-old, right? It's like, I recognize I'm getting excited when all of my friends are, when they're being threatened with a spanking or told they're going to be in trouble. And God forbid, if they actually got spanked, I needed to ask them all of the questions about what just happened. And I noticed no other five or six-year-old was doing this. So automatically I'm like, I've clocked. Kids are smart.
00:17:23
Speaker
They are intuitive. They understand things. I was like, this is weird. And I need to keep this secret that I'm this excited. So I'd try and find ways to like make it happen. Like I'd play house and someone would get in trouble and I'd have to spank them or vice versa. I would need to get spanked or tied up.
00:17:38
Speaker
I had a lot of little ways to get to be obsessed with this thing. And I knew I was weird. I knew like just thinking about this all the time was a strange thing.
00:17:50
Speaker
But when I turned 13, and this consumed a lot of my time at 9, 10, 11, being like, what the fuck is wrong with me? When I turned 13, I was watching these TV shows of...
00:18:02
Speaker
it was I lived in Ireland, so it was like cable TV was a lot dirtier there. You could see a penis on TV after 10 p.m. And you know America's not like that. It's like you have to get HBO to have that level of exposure, right? I'm babysitting and I'm watching this late night show and it's a documentary style show where this couple, they're both submissive and they go see a dominatrix and so that she can dominate them both because they can't do it for each other.
00:18:29
Speaker
And I have it. This is such a key moment in my life because it was the first time I realized, oh my God, this fantasy, this thing I've been obsessing over for years, it's sexual. When I'm 18, I'll go to dominatrix and then I'll have my needs met and everything will be normal.
00:18:44
Speaker
So this was like my 13 year old interpretation of it. By 14, I had my first boyfriend spank me and then I was able to like introduce it in relationship. So what happened at 13 was I realized, oh, my desires have something to do with my sexual fantasies. And dominatrixes exist flash forward 11 years i'm uh one vanilla marriage down and it's like divorce is on the horizon i'm living in new york city and i need a job i already work at the wall street journal as um i'm like a customer service trainer for them but i need a a little supplemental income i want some spending money So i go to Craigslist and I find the gigs section, which if I feel for people who didn't get to experience Craigslist in like the 2010 to 2014 range when it was just a wild West and anything and everything was there, like the craziest life stories I have are from Craigslist, including getting a job at a dungeon.
00:19:44
Speaker
And I went and became dominatrix. And I think That's a long preamble to saying the way I ended up as a sex and relationship coach for kink now is tied directly into the work I did as a dom because I loved that job so much.
00:20:01
Speaker
I just thought I didn't know what I didn't know. I didn't know I could be a dominatrix forever and make good money and make it a career. So I focused on my corporate America job at the wall street journal. I like worked my way up in that.
00:20:16
Speaker
And then I, I went to a startup and I went back to like, I decided to focus on that instead of after two years at the dungeon, I left to focus on having a real life or what I thought was a real life. And um I missed it all the time. I didn't actively realize I was missing it, but I was job hum hopping. I would stay in a job nine months to a year and then go somewhere else and be like, I'm bored. I can't stand this. like The work I do now as a sex and relationship coach, this is the longest I've been ever been in any one job and it's the happiest I've been. So it was just like I was doing the wrong thing. But
00:20:49
Speaker
I felt I'd aged out of being a pro dom, which also still stupid me five years ago thinking, well, how am I going to get back to this work? Thinking I couldn't go be a dom. I could have, but I'm very happy that I um found sex and relationship coaching. I became certified and I realized I can specialize in kink.
00:21:06
Speaker
And that is how I essentially became the kink consultant. There was, you know, cool. TikTok account where I called myself the King Consultant and started marketing and becoming, I guess, an online educator in it. But everything that led me here was honestly for my two year, it was being a dominatrix for two years and just hearing all these men's stories and how they wanted it so bad in their real life, but couldn't have it. But then it was coupled with the fact I spent my teenage years while I was getting boyfriends to spank me,
00:21:37
Speaker
I married a vanilla guy like because I was ashamed of my own desire and I just thought I could get it to go away. So I thought... if I could just get more people to accept this about themselves and I made kink not such a bad word, maybe we'd all be better off.
00:21:52
Speaker
So yeah I'm like on a mission to try and stop people from stigmatizing kink and stop people from being ashamed of having these fantasies that are honestly quite normal.
00:22:03
Speaker
yeah You know, when you know how many people actually have them, do you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. I mean, that's one of my I think there's so many people out there that both kink stuff and sexuality that have desires that they're not talking about feel that they can't share. um and I think it's like probably most people because very few of us actually are sharing it. It must be a ton.
00:22:27
Speaker
I also think it's most people. I think most people have a kink or a fetish or a desire or something. And that is something. I have something called a fetish. A fetish is a need to have in order to achieve arousal. So obviously... i was going to ask, what's and and how do you define kink too?
00:22:44
Speaker
A kink is a nice to have. Kink, okay. How do I define kink? That is like my least favorite question despite being the kink consultant because it's so subjective. There is no one definition. It is very much, and the definition I give you now will be different in 10 years. And I mean that because it was different 10 years ago.
00:23:03
Speaker
So the only like through line that I can create is, It is anything that is not considered part of sexuality and sex as a cultural norm. So in the 60s, a blowjob was considered kinky. Now it's what high school students do before they have sex because sex is going all the way. And like- a blowjob is an appetizer. you know it is no longer thought of as as as kinky. Interesting. I think anal sex 20 years ago would have been thought of as kinky, and I don't think anal sex is considered kinky anymore unless you happen to be a woman strapping, ah like wearing a strap on and pegging a man. Then it becomes kinky. But a man... pe um
00:23:47
Speaker
Having anal sex with a woman I don't think is considered kinky anymore. But I mean, there was a whole section of a Sex and the City episode where all four girls get in a cab together to discuss some guy asking for anal sex. I mean, there was also an episode where someone asked Carrie a pee on her, some guy. So like- That's still kinky, I think. That's still, yeah. that See, and isn't that the amazing range of it, right? It's like things are going to move at different paces. Anal sex sort of made the cut of now being part of, I guess, quote unquote, normal, non-kinky sex, but like being peed on, still kinky. And I actually would project for another 30 to 40 years, it will still be, it actually could be kinky for the rest of our lives. We don't we don't know. Forever. Maybe, maybe, perhaps. That's an interesting way to think about it as as expanding bounds of what is sort of generally, like the general consensus of what's you know considered normal related to sex and and that it can expand. That's interesting.
00:24:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, and it definitely does. Because even now with the way Gen Z and I love how open Gen Z is, I'm sure you see it as well. Like everyone is, many more people are identifying as queer and being open-minded about sexuality and how fluid it can be. I'm like, maybe they'll want to push boundaries by peeing on people. And then that will become normal. Because I also think some of what kink is, is what is taboo and how do we push a boundary? Because the excitement is in the novelty of something and the exploring of things that people don't normally explore.
00:25:16
Speaker
Interesting. Okay. And I also cut you off. You were talking about fetishes and saying you have a fetish. What was that? I need to stop going on podcasts without coffee because I'm only doing you a disservice because I will bounce around without my caffeine. I got you. I'll bring you back. Yeah, I love it. You're you're really on task. ah different So a fetish is a need to have in order to achieve arousal. So everyone has heard of a foot fetish or maybe a nylon stocking fetish, but fetishes exist. I mean, I've really spoken to people who have um ah a balloon fetish, a hair fetish, um ah a diaper fetish.
00:25:54
Speaker
Things that you would not think someone could obsess over so highly, they do. And minus punishment, even though I say spanking because it's a lot more relatable and understandable. I've gotten off to the idea of having to write lines, you know, like I will be a good girl. I will be a good girl. Like I've gotten off to that because that when I imagine it as a punishment, it works for me.
00:26:13
Speaker
a kink is a nice to have all of these things could be done within the framework of being or under the umbrella of being a kink but the truth is you don't need it to achieve arousal you don't need to be imagining it and you can get turned on by other things so even though my partner and i share this kink i actually think his is truly a kink and mine is a fetish because If you ask him, he can think about other things, whereas I need this in order to have it. So does that make sense? Yeah, like that totally makes sense. And that's kind of in line with how I had thought about it. I guess my question based on that is like, how do you coach people or how do you think about it for yourself? Like the idea of...
00:26:57
Speaker
thinking about this kink or fetish in your mind when you're with someone and you're not engaging in that fetish? Like, you know, because I've experienced this and I know some clients, like, if they're not aroused in the moment, they will imagine something that yeah definitely turns them on in their mind. Like, is that is that healthy? What do you do? Like, okay, tell me. It is what is so healthy to do that. And I will, some a lot of what I do sometimes is just giving people permission to run the fantasy in their mind. And I've been shocked at the number of 60-year-old men who talk to me about how they find it difficult to achieve ah an orgasm and they're struggling with sex.
00:27:39
Speaker
And it's because they're so focused on just trying to get and stay hard the way they're supposed to as opposed to running the fantasy. So then I just say, have you ever spirals? It goes downhill and spirals fast. Yeah. When you're trying to be hard, it's not really very arousing. No, because you're so focused on it. And then, you know, great success rates when it's like, no, you're allowed to think of other things.
00:28:02
Speaker
It can be difficult. And sometimes you just have to ask your partner not to talk. if they're a talker, because that can get in the way of your headspace and normalize discussing headspace. Because what you're talking about when you're running a fantasy is you're creating a headspace for yourself to enjoy your fantasy.
00:28:19
Speaker
Sometimes partners partners can feel disconnected when they find out. I've had that in the past where even my exes, when they understand I'm running a fantasy, feel so disconnected and very upset and I have to talk them through it, which is understandable.
00:28:32
Speaker
But I want to normalize creating that headspace from time to time of I'm struggling right now. It's not you. It's about me. And that's the thing. It's never about the partner. It's always about the person who is having the fantasy and they're just struggling a little bit or they're having a moment or they're having ADHD brain, which there's a very high overlap of kinksters who are neurodivergent.
00:28:54
Speaker
So I try and just normalize that, but yeah, it is healthy to run a fantasy in your head. And what I mean by that is I have these rules for kink and fetish. As long as it is consensual between adults and legal where you are, you're good to go.
00:29:09
Speaker
But if you haven't negotiated it clearly, it's not consensual. You might just be being an asshole because consent is key, right? And at least when you're running a fantasy, that's an agreement between you and your adult self and running the fantasy. It is not something that's actually, you're not hurting your partner in it. It's not illegal. It's not non-consensual. You are in your own brain and you do not need permission for what is in your head.
00:29:36
Speaker
Yeah. so Interesting. It is healthy. And I want more people to do it because you're going to have a better sex life if you are able to stay hard, achieve orgasm, get wet if you're a woman, you know? Mm-hmm.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yeah, I love it. That makes sense to me. I agree. And I think like there's often, you know, we can feel self-conscious if our partner is like thinking of something else or it might make you feel like they're not really into you or really aroused by you or really in love with you. And it usually isn't about that. It's it's something else going on. But let me play devil's advocate though for a second.
00:30:11
Speaker
If you're thinking about some other thing that's not you the partner you're with, Doesn't that mean you're not like fully present in this moment? and I'm playing devil's advocate. No, I love it. I understand that concern, and this is a conversation I've had with many of my ex-partners. And the idea is I am still here with you.
00:30:32
Speaker
For me, I'm monogamous, so there is no one else I'm choosing to do this with. It is you. You are the person who turned me on. You are the person who got me horny and excited. i I'm not using you just to come.
00:30:45
Speaker
I want to be present for you. I'm in a lot of ways and times I'm doing this for you because I want to be here with you. I want to be as engaged. And in order to do that, I just need this extra, I mean, think of it like an extra sensory input.
00:30:58
Speaker
Like sometimes people just need a little something else to feel stimulated and It's no different than using a vibrator, but that conversation comes up a lot too of well, if if you're using a vibrator, I'm not enough for you. And it's not about being enough. It's it's that extrasensory input. So I hear you on the engagement thing, but I think once again, so with so much of kink and sex in general, you need to leave your ego at the door and you need to ask yourself, is it my ego bringing this or am I truly feeling less connected? Yeah.
00:31:30
Speaker
to them during this moment. Interesting. That makes sense. I have had a ah partner who uses a vibrator to get off when we're together. And like, I love it. I love that she knows that that's what she likes. i I'm there with her. I'm using it with her doing other things at the same time as she's using it. And like,
00:31:52
Speaker
I mean, I get why people might think, oh, well, you can only get off with that thing and not with just me. I'm not enough. But, um you know, i've i've I've rewired that in my head and learned like this is a fun, great thing and it's great. She can ask for it.
00:32:08
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like it's ego though. it it is I just want to point out, it is ego when you're worried you're not enough because your partner is telling you you're enough. They are they believe you're enough, but for you, you've decided, oh yes, the trust piece of trusting what your partner is saying is so important.
00:32:27
Speaker
And I work with a lot of my clients one-on-one and in couples. And when they're one-on-one, I just realized what's happening is They are being as honest as they can, but their partner's not trusting their honesty. And I think it's ego that gets in the way.
00:32:42
Speaker
Sorry, now I cut you off. Well, and I think trust that kind of trust actually makes it true. Like when when you doubt your partner in in this or in anything,
00:32:53
Speaker
it can actually erode what what they know and it starts to break down. it's like i mean it's sort of I don't know if it's manifestation or if it's the practical result of planting a seed of doubt, but when you actually trust your partner, like it it usually works out great. and it becomes it It is true, but it becomes true for both of you when you lean into that trust, I think. Oh, there's a definite truth in speaking things into existence. Yeah. Like it might not be manifesting, but yeah, that seed or whatever it is, you kind of have to ignore it or try and throw it out immediately because you don't want it to become an obsessive thought. Just let the kinky, sexy thoughts be obsessive, not to not the worries and concerns.
00:33:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:43
Speaker
I have questions that I want to know for me personally that I'm going to ask you because love it ah this is a fascinating conversation. And like, i'm ah your story is very interesting. And I guess I'm curious, like, I think our desires are divine and they're leading us towards something that we're supposed to do in the world. Like you becoming a dominatrix led you towards this path you're on now where you're helping people through this stuff by by talking about it and coaching them through it.
00:34:14
Speaker
i get My question is like, Do you miss doing it? Like, how do you know that? ah How did you know to transition to the talking about it? And like, is that enough for you? Or do you ever think like, i i could have an impact actually doing it? Like, how do you think about that? Because that's something I'm navigating is like the physical reality of it versus the coaching and holding space for people to explore it.
00:34:45
Speaker
I do miss the physical reality. Sometimes I get to actually indulge it a little bit. So I'll go to, um I don't host my own retreats, but like earlier this year, I went on a kink and swinger cruise where I taught classes in person and I got to bring people up and just do like a session in front of people really. And like, I'm doing one later this year. I'm going to hedonism for swingcation which is a swingers kinky vacation where we all hang out I'm teaching erotic spanking and I'm gonna get to teach people these things and I think that's the more hands-on side of it that I'm really excited about oh and I'd love to give you guys a code TKC50 if you wouldn't mind putting it in your show notes so if anyone wants to come be kinky with me they can put it in there
00:35:28
Speaker
i i miss it, but I also, until I got into my most recent relationship, I was going to national parties, like weekend-long kink events where I could still have the experience with people.
00:35:41
Speaker
And it was an experience I also chose and curated. So when you work as a dom, there's no sex, but you are still fulfilling a fantasy for your client. And I miss the acting piece of it, like going into a scene and being like, okay, who am I going to be? What desire am I going to fulfill? And just getting to play with my clients in that way, for sure. i got and i had experiences I'll never have again because of that job that of of course I miss.
00:36:07
Speaker
But i um I always joke, I wasn't always the kink consultant for a while. I was like i was like a 24-year-old idiot who didn't really know much, right? So I was not the best dom at that point in my life. I became a much better dominant as I got older, explored my own fantasies with it as opposed to just leaning into somebody else's.
00:36:26
Speaker
And I spent a lot of my time just talking to clients anyway. And to your point earlier, sometimes they just wanted someone that they could open up to or be themselves with. Like they want their partner to be that person. And in the absence of that, they would pay me just to listen and indulge their fantasies and validate that it was exciting and it was fun and they weren't a freak.
00:36:47
Speaker
So while I miss certain parts of it, like the indulging someone's fantasy and getting to do a role play, I never would choose for myself. Now I get to talk to both sides of the couple, both the husband and the wife, as opposed to just getting one side of the story And I think the impact i have now is much greater because I'm able to help people live this throughout their life ah as opposed to just one session at a time calming their nervous system, which is important. I don't deny it.
00:37:17
Speaker
but to feel seen by their partner is their greatest desire. And even the even the clients I had at the dungeon, their desire was that their partner would indulge in like this for most of them.
00:37:28
Speaker
So I feel even though I miss certain parts of it, this work is so much more rewarding that I would choose this every day over it. Cool, cool, yeah fascinating. And a sort of related question, like for me, my kinks...
00:37:45
Speaker
And bisexuality, but also like specifically kinks, have opened me up to so many possibilities and new understandings of myself and like shedding shame. Once I shed shame about the kink, I was able to shed shame about so many other things, even outside of sexuality and sex. Yeah. Like it it gave me this model for like embracing myself, all these different things. And it came from like these weird kinks that are just like this weird random thing. Right.
00:38:19
Speaker
And so it's expanded me. Like I'm so grateful for my kinks that have pushed me into this journey of exploration and self-awareness.
00:38:30
Speaker
But now I'm at a point where like, I still love exploring the kinks and it's fun and it's like play and I don't want to lose that play in my life.
00:38:42
Speaker
But I don't know that it's expanding me in the same way. Like I, when I engage in these kinks now, it's, it's fun and great, but it, it's almost like the same thing over and over. And I,
00:38:54
Speaker
maybe this is just my anxiety. I worry, am I like caught in a loop that isn't taking me forward or maybe worse is keeping me stuck somewhere. So how how do you think about that? Is that just my anxiety or like, is there an end point or a shift when you don't just keep doing the thing, but you have to move on to something else? Yeah.
00:39:17
Speaker
I think that as humans in general, as we get older, like I think our kinks are growing at the same time as our emotional capacity and our experience in the world, right? So I do think you have hit a life plateau. My guess is you've actually just hit a bit of a life plateau and you're not going to be here forever. But it also makes sense that there's no exponential growth in kink.
00:39:39
Speaker
And some people, by the way, figure out their kink at... at five and they're fine just staying there. And, um, or there's people who keep on taking on new kinks or their understanding of things shift and it's very eyeopening, but it's okay to plateau in every area of growth in your life. And my guess is you're ah just plateauing right now. And that maybe it'll be another 10 years, but something else will shift in your life and you will start looking at things through a different lens. And that will, of course, once again, change how you view kinks and interact with and experience your own kinks.
00:40:12
Speaker
Yeah. Interesting. Okay. We'll see what happens. I'll keep your post. I can't wait. We'll check back in 10 years. But i feel I feel the same way. And mine doesn't come from anxiety of not growing or a different viewpoint. Mine comes from anxiety of, am I boring now? Not that it is...
00:40:29
Speaker
boring to not be kinky, but when you're discovering all of these new things and understanding what turns you on and accepting them and allowing yourself to go to the depths of your desire and figure out what's going on there and playing with the idea of where did this come from? is it going to go away? What is really getting me excited about this? How are these dynamics playing out in my real life? Where else am I seeing these types of dynamics?
00:40:50
Speaker
You're so curious, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then you figure those things out and you get answers for them and they show up and it's just slightly less exciting until some yeah other shift happens, you know?
00:41:02
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. how And how do you explore where these things came from or what they really mean about you? Because like I can...
00:41:14
Speaker
Some of my kinks, or at least one of them particularly, I can point back to like an early childhood memory that was very activating. And I'm like, it came from that moment. sure But that doesn't necessarily tell me like, what does it really mean for me? Why is it important? How do you get at at that or create awareness around that?
00:41:35
Speaker
Okay. I know a lot of people will say, oh, don't waste time trying to figure out your kinks. But like, in what other worlds are we telling people not to spend time going inside and discovering that part of themselves? And I agree not to get hung up on this side of it. That's all I'll say. we You're not getting hung up on it.
00:41:52
Speaker
I don't think anyone should get hung up on it, but I think it is a very healthy thing to explore and look at where could this possibly have come from. And for... I can't for me I feel like I was born kinky I say that because from the age of five I was not overly disciplined I was not under disciplined I had my own mother on my podcast to ask her if she spanked me so I could like prove to the world that there was no like like my mother was not this crazy abusive woman who created this fetish in me but I can't deny there are definitely things that people have that experiences in their life that um shape their desires and interests in kink and I think that the source for everyone's individual kinks, each kink is different, right? Some kink does come from trauma for some people. Some people, it doesn't come from trauma at all. And there are many people like you who can pinpoint
00:42:48
Speaker
exactly where their kink came from or even their fetish came from. um And sorry, I'm not sure exactly what the question is, but I wanted to explore to explain that like kink can come from anywhere.
00:43:01
Speaker
and yeah well and And your experience is like normal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, i agree with that. Like, it could come from any random moment that is, yeah like, that activates your anxiety or arousal as as a child, and then it just stays with you and you react it out. But I guess, like, how do you go from there? Like, okay, I have this memory to like, I guess on a spiritual level, like, why is this important? Why does this matter?
00:43:29
Speaker
That is the part that I think... you do sort of have to surrender yourself to, I had this experience and it has shaped me because at that time in my life,
00:43:42
Speaker
that was very activating for me. For example, people who were bullied as children who are no longer upset by it or don't feel bullied right now. For example, I'm going to have a very classic case of this. The kid who was bullied as a child, right? Who now as an adult loves to be humiliated and degraded because they get to own that type of play and be more in charge of it.
00:44:03
Speaker
But that same kid is also someone who has, who now goes to the gym six days a week and is very buff and no one would dare bully them. So I think there's like something insightful about, okay, it's not just the kink that that happens with, it's also other parts of our life is kind of the point I'm trying to make. Not only did this person um being bullied was this horrible, I guess that's an example of a trauma, but it was an experience they went through and now they've done things in a specific way in their life to make sure it doesn't affect them in the same way. They're working out all the time, it's making them feel more confident and like they don't have to have that fear. They're also exploring it in the bedroom.
00:44:38
Speaker
But spiritually, I think sometimes we just accept there are wounds that we take on or there are moments that are very impactful and they will be with us for life. And we can spend a lot of time trying to just heal the wound or we can integrate different, um I guess, different things that help us accept it and make it coping mechanisms. Maybe i don't even like calling my kink a coping mechanism because it's just something I enjoy so much.
00:45:03
Speaker
But I think there is a great deal of just surrendering to it of at that time in my life, this was an important thing. And because of that, it will always play a part in my life now.
00:45:14
Speaker
Yeah. Interesting. You're using a lot of the language of um of psychedelics, which is also the language of healing, which is interesting because we mentioned that before we started recording. Yeah, but I don't do any psychedelics. Did I tell you? Oh, I didn't tell you that. I have no never done. I've smoked weed.
00:45:32
Speaker
I've never done mushrooms. i've like I've smoked weed. I think I've done Coke twice. And now we've gone through the extent. That's not psychedelic. The Coke is But is weed a psychedelic?
00:45:42
Speaker
Yeah. I've never even thought of it as that. But those are drugs. Most people don't, but I do. Yeah. Those are all the drugs I've done. And I actually don't even smoke weed anymore because my paranoia is so high. Yeah.
00:45:54
Speaker
Well, maybe we'll we'll get you in a mushroom ceremony someday. but um I'm not against it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, like the into you know how do you integrate these parts of your life? like And something else you said that I'm blanking on reminded me of that. But but I bring it up because...
00:46:10
Speaker
You know, psychedelics for me and many people are like this mind altering experience that helps you go back to the to past experiences and see them differently or feel them differently. And then you integrate that awareness into your life moving forward. And i wonder if that is similar to exploring a kink, like because I think it's can be a mind altering experience when you go into a submissive subspace or dom space or whatever.
00:46:39
Speaker
Do you find that with your gosh, so much so it's very mind altering. But I think that there is an overall um I guess, framework for this of basically once you realize there is the thing, in order to accept yourself, you need to integrate it. Otherwise, it just stays the thing. And the only way to healthily move forward is to start to accept it. So I think through psychedelic journeys, a lot of people learn things about themselves, and then they're able to shine a light on them.
00:47:08
Speaker
And the only so next step that would be healthy would be to integrate it as opposed to just being like, well, I pulled this thing out, I'm aware of it, and now I'm going to be ashamed and care about it and just carry it with me as opposed to integrating it to make it easier. So I definitely think kink has that too of like, yeah you may know the childhood incident or the incident or the reason you have the kink, but I don't think it benefits you or helps you heal to just stare at it on the wall. You have to integrate and keep moving, which-
00:47:40
Speaker
I'd be open to doing, but I do think about a mushroom ceremony. I imagine you do discover more parts of yourself and you have to be in a place where you are actually ready to integrate and want to move forward as opposed to being in a place of wanting to just be a victim. i hate the way I phrased that, but do you know what I mean? Well, and I think there's like, you have to be ready to let go of any resistance to this thing. And you, there we go the thing you said before actually is that made me think of this is that sense of surrender, like getting to the place of surrender is part of maybe one of the most important parts of the process. And I think it's probably similar to kink. Like you have to be ready to surrender to this and not resist it.
00:48:21
Speaker
but And my question, based on what you said, is like what does it actually look like to integrate a kink into your life? Is it just about accepting it and and exploring it once in a while? Or what does it really mean to integrate? You need to make space for it. You absolutely. Integrating it is not pushing it away and shaming it and Integrating it is, okay, this is now part of my life and my routine and I accept that I need it. Just like for people who need to take medicine or people who I think we all need to get out in the sun and move around a little bit. But you recognize- best medicine. In order to feel like a whole person,
00:49:00
Speaker
I need this. And without this, I don't feel whole. And I think accepting that part about yourself is important, but then integrating it and finding a way to like to make it a part of your life. So I do work with some couples where we work together for like 10 sessions. And at the end of that, um the non-kinky partner is like, look, I've tried. i just, I can't do this. Like it makes me feel sick. It makes me feel moody after i don't want to continue on this journey. And we can't force someone on any journey. So the next few sessions with the the kinky client is, okay, how do you sit with the disappointment of that and still honor yourself and your desires?
00:49:38
Speaker
Because the non-kinky partner can never make you stop having your desires. There's just a way that you start to work with them and make space for them without your partner. And that includes carving out time to indulge whatever fantasy it is. If that's masturbating and running the fantasy yourself, if that's putting a butt plug in you, or putting nipple clamps on you or causing some type of pain and doing that yourself as a moment to honor, like this is a desire, I'm going to indulge it for myself, even if no one else is in my life is accepting of it.
00:50:12
Speaker
I know I'm not hurting anyone, I'm gonna do it. You need to make space. you This is never going away. Like that's the one thing I know. You can't. pray this away. You can't wish this away. You can't go to the gym seven days a week and just focus on getting fit and not thinking about how this excites you. It's not going anywhere.
00:50:31
Speaker
and And is that enough for people? like Because I work with some clients who come out as bi and want to explore with men, but then eventually will agree with their wives. They want to remain in the marriage. She wants monogamy. And so they'll like agree to that reluctantly, even though they have this desire.
00:50:50
Speaker
Do you find it's enough for people like that to just to masturbate and carve out mental space? you know how Does that work? ah It works, but only in that you have to always write realize enough will never actually be enough because every relationship is sacrifice, right? Sometimes you sacrifice your time and hang out with in-laws that you don't like.
00:51:13
Speaker
and And if you hate them enough, you might get divorced because you're like, I can't stand in your family anymore. I'm leaving. That's a sacrifice. Sometimes you sacrifice. um Some people I know sacrifice because their partner wants kids and they don't.
00:51:25
Speaker
And that's a sacrifice. They have kids. I won't pretend that just living it through your own fantasy and your own time masturbating isn't going to be a sacrifice because you are going to miss this piece of your life where you get to have a partner who's as into it as you are. And oftentimes having a partner is the best way to take your own kinks deeper.
00:51:46
Speaker
Yes, you are sacrificing that. But I think through the process of honoring it, talking about it out loud, and at least being seen by your partner, even if your partner doesn't indulge, you are in a better place as long as you're both, you need a partner who's not going to shame you and call you names or say anything like derogatory or shaming towards you because of your interest, but you have to understand you can't force them into it. yeah So yeah is it the best feeling in the world? No, but that's it's a sacrifice and I'm going to help you work through the disappointment of having to choose and sacrifice that piece.
00:52:23
Speaker
Cool. Thank you for that. I think that's helpful for people um because sometimes that decision can be really difficult.
00:52:36
Speaker
Okay, we're running out of time. I want to wrap it up soon, but I have a couple of questions I just need to ask you about. rapid fire. I'll answer. Okay, yeah, you ask and I will answer rapid fire. I'm ready. Okay, um you said earlier kink isn't always sexual.
00:52:51
Speaker
tell um Tell me more about that. Oh, there are a lot of asexual people who are kinky, right? So that alone tells me that ah like it helps other people I know understand, oh, you can indulge kink completely and it has nothing to do with sex. For example,
00:53:06
Speaker
I'll use myself, first of all, I can get a really good spanking and be put in the headspace of, oh, I've been bad. And am I turned on and wet? Yes. But do I need to have sex after it? No. It's almost its own.
00:53:18
Speaker
If you imagine columns of needs, right? the the need for the kink is separate from the need for the sex. There are people who it goes hand in hand. It's like, no, the kink is not enough. I need kink and sex. And then there's people who can just have the kink and you can never assume which person anyone is.
00:53:37
Speaker
You have to ask them specifically. So for me, it can be separate. um I can have But I'm always running fantasy in my mind in order to achieve orgasm, but I don't need sex in order to enjoy my kink.
00:53:49
Speaker
And there's a lot of people out there like that. Why? How does that come up for you? Well, you know, it it has been paired with... sexual energy for me so often, but yet I notice it come up differently. my My desire for sex and my desire for kink stuff just shows up separately sometimes. If you want to hear my answer to that question, you got to go to Patreon, patreon.com slash Robert Brooks Cohen to help support this podcast. You get bonus clips like this one, as well as early access. I recommend you do it for this one because I think the answer and the conversation that unfolded
00:54:27
Speaker
was actually quite interesting. I'm sorry to paywall it, but you know, we got to have stuff for the subscribers. I talked a little more about my current relationships, my celibacy journey, and now my journey into monogamy. I know, shocking if you've been here a while, I'm learning a lot from it and my kink stuff is coming up in interesting ways. So check out Patreon for that conversation and I'll put you back into the conversation a few minutes later. Here you go.
00:54:57
Speaker
Actually, i think possibly also what's become more important in this time is the prep or like the importance you're placing on intimacy then. Because I actually think kink is a more intimate act than sex.
00:55:08
Speaker
Because you have to be so thoughtful about your partner that it makes it hard to be totally selfish. Even as the submissive, I mean, the submissive does get to be a little, I'm a sub, I'll say that. I get to be more selfish than my partner, but it's not all taking.
00:55:23
Speaker
You know, there's an exchange there that you have to think about. And sex can be, even if you're the one being penetrated, I think sex can be all, it could be quite selfish. If you're, it's very easy to not care about your partner at all.
00:55:35
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and we we won't have time to really cover this, but that's part of what I love about kink culture and like BDSM is like you have to talk about everything beforehand. Otherwise, it gets weird and it's not consensual fully. And so it forces these...
00:55:56
Speaker
conversations that create intimacy and bring you closer together. Even when it's like this, some something that might be considered really weird and dis or like doesn't seem intimate, the the conversations you have to have around it create an amazing intimacy. Yeah.
00:56:12
Speaker
Exactly. I mean, yes, that's part of the appeal for so many people. You've nailed it. You know you're coming on my podcast, though, right? Like, there's no way we just had this entire conversation and you're not going to come on my podcast and let us talk about this. I'll tell you about my kink. I'll tell you more about my kink there. I just part of my season 11 plan is to talk more about this stuff very openly and like talk about me. And so I'm so i'm saving what the actual kink is. But I'm I will be talking about it soon. Yeah, by then. That's amazing. Okay, I love it. I can't wait. um Okay, any more rapid-fire questions? Because I realize... Last thing, and then and then we'll wrap it up and we'll talk more next time. But um shame like I just want to hit this topic of shame. I think it's so important in what all of...
00:56:56
Speaker
this is kind of based not based on, but like it's the work we're doing to overcome shame, both with sexuality and with kink and as they intersect. And like, that's why I think this kind of work is so healing on the individual level and societally. So I don't really have a specific question, but just tell me how you view how shame plays into all this and how you've seen people heal from it and and what the benefits of that are.
00:57:28
Speaker
So even my go-to, since we're pressed for time, my hack for shame is ask whose voice you're hearing that in, right? Because shame is just you telling yourself something's wrong, right? But then you have to trace it back to whose voice is that? And it might still be your voice, but go back to like, well, where did I first start getting these messages that I'm not supposed to be sexual? I'm not supposed to, whatever the supposed to be is, that's where the shame is, right? And I want you to just realize, Oh, I've internalized somebody else's thought process, somebody else's beliefs, and I've made them my own. But having these beliefs does not serve me anymore.
00:58:05
Speaker
It's not protecting me. It's not keeping me safe. There were times where shame was there to protect us and keep us safe. I think in terms of being accepted by society, i When you think about evolution, we used to be community driven. We used to move in a pack or a tribe and we needed to be accepted by everyone so we stayed conformed. That is not our world anymore. So any shame you have or anything that makes you want to feel or appear normal is no longer really serving you. So try and let go of that by asking.
00:58:34
Speaker
like Make your mother the villain in this if she's the one who, if her voice is what's coming through with the shame. Your mother herself is not the villain full time, but in this shame thing, it's like, oh, that's my mother's thoughts. I don't listen to my mother about anything. Why would I listen to her about this? That type of thought process, I'm throwing parents under the bus here, is going to be helpful. But even just society told me I'm supposed to be ah five four blonde, and pounds. Fuck society. You know you have to understand like who's giving me this message and why am i in why did I internalize and integrate that message over what I'm truly feeling?
00:59:11
Speaker
So like take shame out and hold it under the light. Put it under a microscope and discover everything you can about it. I want you to study it like it's you know your college thesis. Why are you feeling this shame?
00:59:23
Speaker
And once you pull it out into the light, Most times you realize, oh, this is silly. It's not serving me. It's somebody else's belief system that I've adopted and I no longer believe it. But I don't want to minimize how difficult that can be. it For anyone who is raised in very strict religion, it's going to be equivalent to like rejecting that religion and having to undo that.
00:59:43
Speaker
shame Shame is powerful. So don't feel guilty for feeling shame. Just realize you are also powerful and you can fix this. like you can fix this Cool. Yeah. Shame is powerful and shedding it is, is, can be so healing for our whole culture. And what you just shared is like, ah to me, it's kind of why coaching in general or therapy at all works is like when we just have these thoughts in our heads and, know,
01:00:13
Speaker
were resisting them or or acting based on them, like it's so hard to see them and and and change them. But when you actually say them out loud to another person, a coach or a partner, or even if you just like write them down and then look at what you wrote, it creates awareness and makes these thoughts real. And you kind of can go, oh, well,
01:00:37
Speaker
so Now that i so realize my mind is thinking that way, it's so obvious what's going on. But it's just so hard to do that when it lives in your head. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it's is None of this is easy. That's exactly it. like i I play pickleball terribly. So I hired a coach to help me play pickleball. And sometimes I beat myself up for not being good. And he's like, that's why you hired me to help you be better at this. So like I just hope no one's stuck in that spiral of, why can't I shed the shame? Why can't I just get over this? Whatever getting over it is, sometimes you just need a little extra help and there's no problem with it. If it's going to help you enjoy things more, like I enjoy pickleball more now because I play a little better.
01:01:18
Speaker
there's no reason to not get some get some help and find someone who can actually guide you through the process. Right. And these these things are so core and foundational. I mean, I think so many people shove kink and sexuality and desire aside thinking, this isn't that important. It doesn't affect my family or my job or what I do every day. It's this side thing that I don't have to think about. And actually, like...
01:01:45
Speaker
You don't often realize just how much space it takes up until you look at it and address it. And then then it doesn't have to take up too much space. um but But I think it takes up more space when we resist it than when we actually address it Oh, that's the podcast. That's the episode right there. That's like the final note on kink because society rewards you from 25 to 45, focusing on your career and family and doing all the right things. And then you turn 45 for many people, my clients especially, and they realize, oh shit, I did all the things I was supposed to do. Why do I feel so empty? And then they start looking at the things they pushed aside and they were like, oh, that was actually really important to me. yeah i wish I hadn't
01:02:27
Speaker
Just let it go. Let me see if I can get it back. And that's normal. Like that's like that society who told you to do something a certain way. So you're not alone if you're you're like, oh, well, I'm too, there's no such thing as too old.
01:02:40
Speaker
In fact, it's actually a really common path people take because they've pushed it aside because you're incentivized to push these things aside and care more about making money and being a successful member member of society at your own expense.
01:02:52
Speaker
Okay, I'll stop shitting. I'll get off my soapbox and I'll get over break like being angry at society. Amazing. I mean, I think that's a good note to leave it on. i could talk for more hours and hours and I'd love to come on your show someday, but um we will leave this one there. um Thank you so much. Anyone listening, come come get some coaching. If you want some King coaching, come to Amanda, some bisexual coaching, come to me. Where can people find you and your work and whatever you want share? Yes.
01:03:22
Speaker
Thank you. If you go to amandadames.com, everything is there. But um Robert, in the show notes, if you would not mind, I have a worksheet for couples to go through when one person is kinky and the other isn't to just talk about their desires. And it's literally, it's like a five-step guide where you can even fill it in on your laptop. And it's just about how do I share my fantasies with my partner for people who are really struggling. And I've had people who They share their fantasies like a hundred times over five years, but this worksheet helped them actually say what they needed to say. So I would love if anyone who is struggling with this right now, give the worksheet a try with your partner.
01:04:00
Speaker
Cool. Yeah. Love it. Okay. We will put um her web website and all that in the show notes. Check that. Amazing. Thank you so much for being here. This is a fascinating conversation. yeah, go check out Amanda's website, social media, YouTube podcast.
01:04:18
Speaker
Thanks so much for being here on two. Thank you for having me.
01:04:25
Speaker
Thanks for listening to this episode with Amanda Dames. If any of this resonates with you and you would like to try out coaching, you can sign up for a session on my website. And you're not sure yet, you can sign up for a free 15 minute discovery call to see if it's the right fit. Stay tuned for our hundredth episode coming soon and get excited for season 11. I'm going to try some new stuff. I've got a second buy guy to bring back into the fold, I think.
01:04:50
Speaker
So stay tuned and thanks for listening. Two Bye Guys by One Bye Guy is produced and edited by me, Robert Brooks Cohen, and it was created by me and Alex Boyd. Our logo art is by Caitlin Weinman. Our music is by Ross Mincer. To learn more about my individual and group coaching offerings, visit robertbrookscohen.com.
01:05:10
Speaker
And to help support this podcast, visit patreon.com slash robertbrookscohen. You'll get full video episodes, early access, and bonus content. Thank you for listening to Two Bye Guys by One Bye Guy.