Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Sartorial Jazz with Vernon Valentine
84 Plays3 years ago
On this episode we talk natural style, Southern Rap, and the importance of mentorship with Robert Waldrup.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, I'm Connor Fowler. And I'm Matt Smith. And welcome to Apocalypse Duds. Today, we welcome a man of many parts. The Doppler Daddy with the drip. The Airman Who Can. The Radar Reader. The Rakesh Rustler. The Caballero in Camo. The Louisiana Lawman. The Hero in the Hamburg. His boots were made for walking. Robert Waldron.
00:00:25
Speaker
I'm going to have to re-listen to that and save it and put those in my farm bio. The doppler daddy with the drip. How do I not think of that myself?
Creative Guest Introduction Praise
00:00:38
Speaker
And you know what's insane, dude? That was the first one I came up with. That was the first one that came out of my brain. And I was like, God, it's good.
00:00:48
Speaker
I told Connor earlier today, like, we've done this little, you know, this is kind of our intro shtick, so to speak. This is absolutely the best one that this man has come up with. And my hat is off to you, Connor. I am remarkably honored for so much. Look, Apollo Creed, when he fought the Russian cat, you know what I mean?
00:01:17
Speaker
I'm glad, whatever. Hopefully, Robert, you don't die at the end of this episode. Let's just keep that in mind with the Apollo 3 reference. That's right, that's right. But yeah, we're Rocky slash American enthusiasts, so let's make it the biggest intro of all time. That's our goal. Let's go.
Top Dirty South Rap Songs
00:01:46
Speaker
I have a very big lead up, and just to set the tone for the interview, it's a burning question that we both have, Robert, all right? Are you ready for this? I'm listening. I need your top three Dirty South rap songs of all time. Top three Dirty South rap songs? Yes. Okay.
00:02:14
Speaker
He's accepted the challenge. All right. Yes. I'll say this. I'll say this. They're probably all coming from Scarface. Okay. All right. The first one comes to mind is Diary of a Madman. You talk about a track that discusses, I guess, mental health in
00:02:44
Speaker
raw gangster realness. I don't know that anyone really holds a candle to Scarface when it just comes to talking about just visceral emotions and a fucked up headspace packaged in authentic gangster, you know, street shit. Fuck yes.
00:03:14
Speaker
You know, so I'm staying, I'm probably leading with that one. Okay. Silent number one choice, if I'm being honest. So. All right. All right. All right. All right. Let's see. You know, I'm in Louisiana. Let me, let me put my boy Boosie up in there. I can't, I can't help but to, but to just feel something in my, in my, in my spirit when I hear set it off.
00:03:44
Speaker
So I'm gonna throw, I'm gonna throw Bootsy in there, set it off. Probably not ending up on a whole lot of folks, top three of all time, but in the spirit of just fun for this conversation, let's throw my man Bootsy up in there. All right, all right.
Southern Rap's Influence and Diversity
00:04:02
Speaker
And, and look, you know, Matt, you know, we finally, you know, met face to face in Georgia. I was in South Georgia at the time. And so,
00:04:13
Speaker
Let's throw it up for Pastor Troy. No more playing G.A. Let's do that. Hats off to you, Robert. This came from the whole conversation that you and I have had, just about random Dirty South rap and just being Southern people and appreciating the
00:04:42
Speaker
you know, just the sound and the feel that it has compared to literally any other rapper hip hop on the scene. So- I think I lost you there for a second, but no, I hear you, man. And look, I think we've probably had this conversation before, you know, they don't get enough love for what they brought to the rap game as far as authenticity, as far as, you know, having a range of topics
00:05:12
Speaker
I mean, I just don't know, just as an example, I just don't know who really crosses or bridges, you know, those subject areas like the ghetto boys from, you go from, you know, kind of just straight gangster shit to consciousness to, you know, just kind of doing the same, just, you know, going after women and things like that. I mean, just, you know,
00:05:41
Speaker
a whole range of topics, you get it all from them. I don't think anyone does it better. You gotta set out Jay Prince being the boss of all bosses. I mean, who's been in the game longer with more respect across a plethora of areas like Jay Prince. You can't name one that holds a candle to him. And probably could name one across several industries unrelated to music.
00:06:11
Speaker
And so, you know, they don't, you start talking about hip hop and everybody wants to default to New York or California. And yet, I mean, it's, I mean, look, man, I mean, give it up and give respect where it's due. But when it comes down to it, tell me those cats are not finding a way to either collaborate, interrupt, copy, borrow, or steal from Southern cats.
00:06:37
Speaker
This has been the most- It's all about, quote, interpolation that is discussed very often, but it's like, yeah, it's theft. Right, right. Which, you know, listen, whatever, but they don't get enough love for being what they are and, you know, the sounds that come up out of here and just the staying powerness of that Southern sound. So, you know, you got to give it up.
00:07:07
Speaker
I feel like, you know, I'm certainly not a historian of rap and hip-hop, but I've been listening to a lot of it for the majority of my life, being, you know, mostly Southern and then a little bit of like other East Coast stuff. West Coast, I respect it, not really my thing, whatever. But, you know, at the same time, there's just like,
00:07:34
Speaker
there's a feeling about Southern rap that just does not exist anywhere. And like you said, it hasn't gotten the recognition it really deserves, but like, you know, 3.6, for example, you can pretty much like, I'm not a music writer, which I were, but you can say that like all of the most modern kind of shit, like the triplet stuff that Migos and the other, you know, other groups do like,
00:08:03
Speaker
that all comes back to Memphis. And there's just so many examples of that in the game that like, I don't know, you can trace back to what people were doing here, selling shit out of their trunk. And it's like, yo, that never gets talked about, at least.
00:08:27
Speaker
Well, when I think about it too, man, I mean, you know, look, and this might be a gross generalization, but, you know, you talk about, you know, West Coast, we're talking about California. Now that's, that's, again, that's an originalistic, because what you get in the, in the Bay sounds a lot different than what you're hearing in LA. You know what I'm saying? And underground still has another kind of a feel to it. Okay. But we're generally talking about California. Okay. You talk about the Northeast kind of thing. We're talking about New York and, you know,
00:08:57
Speaker
You know, again, give it up. Premier, you know, Naj, Wu-Tang. I'm a huge Wu-Tang fan. Oh, totally, totally. You knew Wu-Tang Wednesday for God's sakes. That's right. That's right. That's right. I mean, I mean, we can't, we can't, you know, I guess fail to give it its props. But when you talk about Dirty South though, right? I mean, you go all throughout the fucking South and you've got a different sound. Houston sounds different than what you're getting in New Orleans. New Orleans sounds different than what you're getting in Florida.
00:09:26
Speaker
floors are the floors you're getting in Tennessee. And then you can move on to North Carolina, which there's always like been this historical New York to North Carolina, you know, transplantation. And, you know, some of the cats I was listening to back when I was in college, Little Brother and Ninth Wonder, you know, they just kind of blend that feel of kind of like a New York kind of style of production with Southern
00:09:56
Speaker
uh, resonation and, and, and lyricism and topic. Yeah. It's like being at, listen to the shit you're going to hear in a barbershop or at a family reunion or on the, on the, on the church steps after
Regional Sound Contrasts in Rap
00:10:12
Speaker
service. You know what I mean? Like he getting that kind of a vibe to it. And we didn't even talk about some of the, the drive by shit that, that kind of popped off in the, in the late nineties, early 2000 arts, um, nappy roots.
00:10:23
Speaker
you know, cats like that. You know what I mean? You know, I don't know that you really get the range of just sound diversity throughout the South as a region, as you get in other, you know, pockets of hip hop.
00:10:41
Speaker
Yeah, you don't. I mean, New York, New York Sound is like a pretty rigid thing. There's that Griselda revival with West Side and all of those guys who are doing like sort of an homage to all of the rap that was coming out of New York in the early 90s. And I would say the same goes for people like Kendrick Lamar and YG are just sort of reviving something that has existed already, whereas the South is about mixing and sort of mending. You know, when you say Griselda, though, you know, I still think
00:11:13
Speaker
Like, take Benny, for example. Benny, I'm a huge Benny fan, and to me, the cops, Cool G Rap and Scarface. I mean, just when you talk about this straight gangster lyricism that is very well put together, very well delivered, and just kind of just raw and gritty, I think he's very much, and to your point, I do think they are an homage to old school shit,
00:11:41
Speaker
And yet, I think that dude is also kind of throwing it back to Southern roots. For sure. In the dark kitchen, all you hear is the fork clicking. That's right. That's right. That's right. Yeah, they've got it, really. These cats are really carrying the torch for, I mean, at least in my mind. My taste in music is pretty tight and narrow. But if I had a little contemporary top five,
00:12:09
Speaker
I mean, hell, three of them cats in Brazil are occupying three seats in the lineup. You know what I mean? Certainly. Yeah, certainly. Yeah, this conversation could not have gone any better, in my opinion, Robert. And I'm very happy that you were willing to
00:12:32
Speaker
To chat about this because it was it was the mat said he wanted to do it first Yeah, he was like we're leading with this question. That's it as you should as you should So we know that uh, you were born in louisiana and grew up in north carolina And now you're back in louisiana.
Military Background and Music
00:12:55
Speaker
Um Like what was your childhood?
00:12:59
Speaker
and early life like in the South in the 80s and 90s and kind of what made you ultimately return to Louisiana? Well, so, I mean, I grew up, I mean, look, Matt, I've been in and around the military for 37 years. I mean, I was born in Northern Louisiana when my mother was stationed up there. She was Air Force. It ended up in North Carolina in, I think, 96.
00:13:29
Speaker
I was also another military assignment and, you know, spent some time abroad before that, spent some time in California for a year before that. And, you know, was in North Carolina from about ninety six to seven. But, you know, I mean, look, man, without getting into too much of a deep, heavy topic, you know, it was very much a Alaska kid. And and, you know, as far as
00:13:55
Speaker
you know, what I had going on, I mean, wasn't really dialed into music like that. I mean, you know, for that early 90s, you know, era of hip hop, I was in, I was in Okinawa, you know, and and stuff out there. I remember, I remember my mother had purchased into the Wu-Tang 36 chambers. And I mean, I mean, I didn't listen to it until I was in college. I mean, you know, it was around, but I didn't
00:14:23
Speaker
really get on it at that point. And so, you know, kind of missed a big evolution of something I kind of throw back to now, but when it was happening, I wasn't really participating. So, you know, moving around a little bit.
00:14:40
Speaker
as a kid and have it moved around a little bit as an adult, I guess it kind of keeps you not married to certain locations or certain things for too long or being in too attached to things. And also, I guess, building something of an instinct to be able to just pick up and move whenever it's time to go. The difference now is that I get to make a decision myself versus having
00:15:05
Speaker
you know, some cat in the uniform I've never met, you know, telling me what's what's best for for my career and my life for that matter. I mean, to your to your question about why why I came back here. I mean, I went to law school here. You know, this is having moved around a bit. This was one of the few places that ever kind of felt like home to me, you know, in New Orleans. And, you know, I recite this a lot. I mean, there's an old saying by Tennessee Williams, I'm
00:15:34
Speaker
with misquoting it, forgive me, but it's like, you know, there's three American cities, New York, New Orleans, and San Francisco. Everything else is Cleveland. And you feel that. I mean, there's certainly a pulse and a vibe and a heartbeat to this city, man. And I remember when I was kind of first, I guess, kind of laying the groundwork to move back here. I had my two-lane hoodie on, and I got off to play in the airport. I'm about to walk out to,
00:16:02
Speaker
to catch a cab and there was a gal at the door. And she was like, okay, Mr. Tulane, welcome home, baby. You just don't really get that kind of, I guess, welcoming just in an airport from a stranger like that who was treating me and talking to me like family. I'm not even like really from here, you know what I mean? So it just, like I said, it has a bit of a home feel to it.
00:16:29
Speaker
You know, it may not be the forever place, but I'm good here for now and it's been a good place to kind of pick up, you know, this next phase of my life post-military and see what's popping. Hell yeah. That's a beautiful answer of why you've returned to some place, if I'm being honest. Yeah.
Career Journey: Air Force to Law
00:16:55
Speaker
So you're talking about your career post military. I was wondering, I did do some research. I was wondering if you could give a little rundown of your career up into this point. You are very young and very accomplished already. That's very kind of you. Let's see.
00:17:17
Speaker
Well, I commissioned into the Air Force in I guess late 2007. I was a weather officer, so I'm a degreed meteorologist. Did that for a while. Yeah, that was so surprising to me. Yeah, it probably takes a lot of people a breath away.
00:17:38
Speaker
Did that one for about five and a half years, was in Tucson, Arizona for a couple of years, eight to 10, came back to Louisiana. I was back in Bosa City up there at the Marshall Air Force Base from 10 to 12, deployed to Kyrgyzstan six months out of that.
00:17:54
Speaker
in Korea for a year. I think that was 12 to 13. 13 to 16 came back to New Orleans in law school and then spent the next five years in San Antonio. And then the last seven months, so that would have been, oh, probably August to September 2021 until April of this year in Valdosta.
00:18:21
Speaker
And that was, I guess the last six years was, I was a JAG military lawyer in the Air Force. You know, some Tom Cruise type shit. You know, and yeah, man. So that, you know, it was cool for what it was. And I mean, I wasn't, I didn't really mesh well with them so much that that career field. So it was time to make a move and dip on out of that.
00:18:52
Speaker
So I got on with a law firm out here in New Orleans. It's a commercial litigation firm. So we don't want to grind this out until, until, you know, until whenever. Dude, and Robert. I saw it. Yeah. Like, that's an, that's an impressive fucking CV. I'm glad you think so. I mean, I hope someone else does too. Shit. But I mean, it's,
00:19:21
Speaker
It's cool, man. I guess I don't reflect on it too much, but, you know, I regret not taking better advantage of some of the places I was at at the time, and it was kind of a building myself of, you know, seeing stuff when I was out there. Like, I mean, I was in Arizona for a couple of years, and I saw the Grand Canyon once or twice, but, you know, Patagonia, Sedona, stuff in, you know, Tombstone, big, you know, was it Busby?
00:19:47
Speaker
places, no galas, you know, shit like that didn't really just didn't really strike my fancy back then, man. But it ain't going nowhere. So kind of in a better space now to, you know, kind of see what that stuff like that is like. And I'm glad a little bit of traveling when I was when I was in Valdosta. Part of that was just not wanting to be in Valdosta.
00:20:08
Speaker
I started quite a bit when I was out there, just kind of on a whim. So I'm still trying to get myself together and I guess with this new gig and feel myself out there, it's been a little bit busier, but I'll start building in some travel time for that too and see some different things and get some different experiences of one of my best. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I guess like, you're from a military background, so you've traveled a lot.
00:20:37
Speaker
Um, your entire life basically, like from, you know, deployment to deployment or, or, or station, you know, whatever the word is there, but like, how old are you? 37. So in your 37 years, you probably see more of like the world and just various spaces than a ton of people do in their entire lifetime. Like that's just impressive to me.
00:21:08
Speaker
and and the fact that you've kind of like just done your thing and Like to figure it out, you know figured out different ways that you can Advance both your career and yourself like that's that's just awesome it And you know just hearing it hearing it all Put in one place like I don't know. It is impressive to me Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, of course so so we
STEM Academy and Diversity Initiatives
00:21:37
Speaker
In our research, mostly Connor's research, we have discovered that you're on the board of a nonprofit that was developed to bridge the achievement gap of underserved minorities through STEM programs. That's kind of a rad thing. And how did you get involved with that?
00:22:07
Speaker
So one of my mentors in college, I mean, he was graduated several years before I started classes, but got clicked in with him and had a lot of similarities. He was, he at ROTC, was in the Air Force for a little bit. I think he was a missileer, got out and went to business school.
00:22:33
Speaker
And he's been kind of doing his thing up in New York ever since. But, you know, several years ago, I think it's been over 10 years now, he popped off this STEM Academy. It's a week long, you know, program for predominantly, you know, young black males.
00:22:53
Speaker
And it teaches them, you know, kind of like the STEM component of it is robotics. So they go through a week-long program kind of learning just the basics of robotics and computer programming. And they have a capstone at the end of the week where they build their own and build and program their own robot. And all this happens in the course of a week.
00:23:19
Speaker
But they build in just physical fitness in it as well and leadership. They have guest speakers kind of come in and give them some game on those topics. And so I had gone up to New York probably maybe 2017 or 18 and ran into my man and he was like,
00:23:42
Speaker
You know, we got the Academy popping off in a couple of months. You know, once you come down and be the keynote speaker, that's a fucking looly.
00:23:51
Speaker
We did that, and they invited me onto the board. And it's been great, man, some other really good professionals. And we've got, I guess, a long track record of success with the program. Now you're starting to see some of the graduates when they were children. Now these cats are college age at this point. And so it's just been a very gratifying and rewarding thing to be a part of.
00:24:18
Speaker
You know, it's I guess kind of somewhat serendipitous in that you know Just what ended up starting as a vacation that being something that would that would be I guess enriched me both both professionally and personally, but Yeah, man Wilson a Butler Academy check it out. It's it's fantastic Hell yeah And so I don't want to put you on the spot here, but we did look into it and
00:24:45
Speaker
And we were wondering about the scholarship, the Tulane Scholarship, which is another like wow thing to have. Yeah. So the Walter Crosby scholarship at Tulane Law School, me and my good friend of mine, classmate, we popped that off probably several days before we graduated. And so I guess I'll speak to my specific motivation for it.
00:25:14
Speaker
We went to law school in New Orleans at Tulane. And I think a lot of people kind of have an expectation that that school was a lot more diverse than it really is. At least I'll speak for the law school anyway. I can't say much about the other colleges or the university at large, but, you know, we're going to see that that is 60 percent black. And out of the 200 or so that that graduated with me, we graduated nine black students. And so
00:25:41
Speaker
you look at that and it's like, all right, well, you know, it hasn't always been that way, right? There was a nice little run in the 90s up through pre-Katrina that, you know, had a, you know, up to 25%, you know, black population at the law school. And it's just kind of been on the decline, you know, since then. And so
00:26:05
Speaker
You're trying to just have a way to address that. I mean, for me, it was like, for whatever reason, law school was a way to kind of hit the academic and professional reset button. I kind of went from the weather career field to law and was starting fresh and kind of wanted to pour my all into my studies and ended up doing very well and had, I guess, on the back end of that looked at
00:26:32
Speaker
two lane and New Orleans and whatever as kind of helping me hit that reset button and get off to a good start in this next phase. And so one thing I enjoyed while I was in law school was mentoring underclassmen for their exams or what have you, help them study.
00:26:51
Speaker
and wanted to have a way or some sort of a mechanism to stay involved and engage with the students and kind of give back. And so we launched a scholarship. We put up some of our own money and thankfully, Gary had a law partner that liked what we were doing and he and his wife threw up in a little piece of money to help us get to a threshold amount to be able to restrict the fund to first generation. We prefer to go to first generation black students.
00:27:19
Speaker
And so it's been throwing off scholarship money for the last four or five years. We've got another recipient this year. I met with a young brother several weeks ago. Former Marine got out doing his thing in law school. And so the goal would be to get it to a million dollars in perpetuity, or I guess a million dollars in the endowments that we can
00:27:48
Speaker
fund a full ride in perpetuity. It'll get off a four ride every year. But for now, it's got about a couple hundred thousand in the endowment. So it's throwing off a little piece of change. It's not a ton, but it helps out a little bit. And the other component to it is just the mentorship piece. So you've got the financial angle, but also myself and Gary, my friend that helped launch it.
00:28:16
Speaker
you know, we'll meet with the student and just kind of be a source of networking and advice for them. And we check in on them and try to meet with them before they begin their studies and let them know what they're for. And, you know, law school is kind of a different animal as far as
00:28:33
Speaker
studying and that sort of a thing. But, you know, so it's, you know, just be a resource for them throughout their three years and be a class selection, be it, you know, what's up with this professor, be it how do I study for this exam or, you know, hey, I'm looking for a gig in this location, you know, someone that you can put me on with. And we try to be a resource for all of that. And so, you know, we're we're still raising money trying to build it up. But it's been it's been a good program so far.
00:29:00
Speaker
That's a really incredible story and just the fact that you guys kind of have this idea and that you're able to kind of go into doing this work for people that I'm assuming you've got a heart for. If something like this had been available to you at some point when you went back to law school,
00:29:27
Speaker
I don't know. It's just, it's great that y'all are trying to do this like public service of a point and the mentorship angle in particular. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. That's an old thrust of it, man. I mean, the biggest piece is, to me, I mean, the money helps for sure. But like I said, law school is kind of a different animal as far as, you know, studying. It's a
00:29:51
Speaker
It's very unforgiving. I mean, you don't have like a series of midterms and quizzes and things like that to build a grade. It's one exam. You know what I mean? So the stakes are high and people kind of cope with it better than others. But insofar as we can be a resource to kind of ease that transition and make it slow down a little bit for our recipients, we want to do that.
00:30:15
Speaker
Hell yeah, I very much appreciate you sharing that, you know, that kind of like, just wealth of information about the program and the scholarship. So thank you. Yeah, man, thanks for giving me the platform to talk about it. Of course, of course, man. That's what we're here for.
Sartorial Jazz: Personal Style Philosophy
00:30:36
Speaker
So continuing from before,
00:30:40
Speaker
I found this interview that you did on a site called a sustainable closet, where you described your relationship with clothing as sartorial jazz. I don't want to rehash that people can check out that interview. I want to hear
00:30:57
Speaker
Like, are, I don't know, are you are you hearing music as you're getting dressed? Are you planning your outfits before the night before? What is your what is your process that in that way? You know what, man, there was a moment where I think I had tried to plan stuff out the night before. And I guess sometimes sometimes I don't. But sometimes the
00:31:27
Speaker
to me, some of the better productions kind of come on the fly. Absolutely. Because I'm a planner. Yeah, no, I'm very much a planner too, man. So I, you know, part of it was, but I guess, you know, the other part too was, you know, trying to stay organic with it and kind of let it, you know, kind of what I'm feeling that day or, or,
00:31:50
Speaker
and kind of look at something and get an idea. I don't know. I don't know if there's much of a process to it. Sometimes when I get stuck, I might say, well, what would Vernon Valentine do? And it helps me kind of get to some kind of resolution. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So who's Vernon Valentine? We had the question down. Actually, it's the next question. So who is Vernon Valentine? Vernon Valentine is a professor at Tulane Law School.
00:32:19
Speaker
Nice, dude. That's so good. I mean, it's just an old school New Orleans dandy, a Draza Jaguar. I mean, you know, fucking white tennis outfits, you know, blazers with the pocket squares and just, you know, just a, just a real suave debonair, you know, handsome man, just in his, he's a world authority in his field.
00:32:47
Speaker
And I always thought his name, his full name is Vernon Valentine Palmer. And I always thought that name was just so perfect, he probably gave it to himself. And so when I jumped on the gram, that was the alter ego I was going for, that kind of thing. Classic New Orleans gentleman. I don't know if I've quite achieved that, but the name is dope, at least I think it is anyway.
00:33:17
Speaker
Oh, that's like the intro origin story handle I've ever heard my entire fucking life. Not even kidding. So we are talking then about the black dandy Vernon Valentine.
00:33:36
Speaker
We're talking about the book, Black Ivy. We're wondering if you have any thoughts about that, I mean, as it applies to your dressing, which I would say that it does. Yeah, I mean, what can I say, man? Solid peace. Great inspiration. I'm actually taking notes.
00:34:06
Speaker
I would say that kind of what I'm rocking now is very much a Black Ivy inspired piece. Vernon Valentine ended up with Cowboy Boots, as I do. Yeah, we've noticed that you're a pretty big fan of Cowboy Boots and kind of like other Western styles. Listen, I got to give it to you, Matt. I mean, certainly it took a little while for me to
00:34:35
Speaker
get into it, and it was like an acquisition here, an acquisition there, and just kind of starting to build it into different looks. And I remember you messaged me one day and was like, you know, I really like how you're working in Western aware with a lot of your looks. And I was like, you know what? Thank you. I think we're going to go off to the races with this one. Oh, fuck, dude. I'm honored, honestly. Yeah. Yeah, no doubt.
00:35:05
Speaker
part of the catalyst, you know? That is awesome. Yeah. I, you know, it's one of those things that I guess in the, you know, few years that I've known you, I've always appreciated is that like, you know, whether you're, you're wearing cowboy boots with a suit or like, you know, you're in some kind of camo pants or something like you always look comfortable in whatever you you're, you're wearing and,
00:35:32
Speaker
Like, I mean, from, from meeting him in person to seeing tons of photos of you on, on Instagram, like it's a, it's a very like natural kind of way to present yourself. And I've, I've appreciated it in you, like how, how did you become just so comfortable, like wearing however you're feeling that day or just, just clothing in general? Like what, what brought you to that kind of level?
00:36:03
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know, man. I think, you know, maybe oddly, maybe not. I mean, you know, when I was in high school, it was square shit. I mean, it was silver tab jeans, Adidas shell toes and fucking rock T-shirts, which I wish I still had looking at this shit now. Dude, you and me both, brother. You and me both. Yeah.
00:36:33
Speaker
You know, so that was the vibe then. But, you know, at some point, I don't know, man, actually, I think it may have been just some some feelings of self loathing and decided to just change it up a little bit. And that probably started maybe senior year in high school. And, you know, when I was in college, it was like poster boy for like Ralph Lauren and shit. And, you know, was was rocking suits and loud ass fucking, you know,
00:37:03
Speaker
uh, trouser and, and tie and shirt and sport coat mashups. And it was just very much, I guess you would call it maybe gentleman's wear, but that was kind of the vibe for me back then. And, uh, you know, when I, when I graduated and, and, you know, doing the military thing, and of course I'm wearing a uniform every day and wasn't really going a whole lot of places and, you know, kind of got, uh, got away from some of the more creative styling.
00:37:31
Speaker
And that went on for, I mean, maybe, shit, 10 years. And when I got to San Antonio, for whatever reason, decided to maybe start getting back into it a little bit, have no explanation as to why, but, you know, it just, it kind of began with Selvish denim, not silly vintage, but just, you know, denim looks thing.
00:37:55
Speaker
And then a lot of people's entree into the whole scene, right? Like, was that one of your first kind of purchases, your first like real money, clothing purchases? Probably, probably. I can't recall the, the first pair, but you know, there was there was a few rail car, rail cars.
00:38:19
Speaker
What's that other one up in? Tellison. Tellison, yeah, that's exactly it. Did you, let me ask, did you have like, on the forums, the fashion forums, at the time, exactly the time you're talking about, 2007, 2008, 2009, what have you, do you remember the like,
00:38:38
Speaker
pitch about the screaming about the sizing. Everyone was like, so my god, are we going to size these too tight? Are we going to size them too little? Are we going to shrink them? Ah, it was chaos. Yeah, I was not dialed in at all to any of that shit. I'm not even sure how I got plugged into them cats. I don't have the first damn clue. But for whatever reason, that was the move. It was then.
00:39:07
Speaker
It was rail card, tell us in an LBC. Yeah, you know, picked up, you know, kind of from there, sort of following cats on the gram and just seeing these dudes mix it up with some some OG type shit. So, OK, so now I'm going to get some OG 107s mixed in here and, you know, following that crowd. Then the next turn was was like French work wear and French military. That was the next kind of phase. And
00:39:37
Speaker
believe it or not, from there, that's how I got to hats. Got plugged in with this, this hatter over in over in Paris. And so most of the most of the hats at that point were were custom. And this is this is like, this is like early COVID. We're talking when we start getting into this. And then I don't know, man, I guess I guess from there start seeing a little bit more of the
00:40:05
Speaker
the range of the vintage world. And, you know, sort of playing with styling a little bit, you know, and seeing how I could, I guess that's when the, I don't know, maybe the, I don't know, desire or instinct or whatever to try to blend dissimilar things to find, you know, harmonies that where you might not expect them. And that was kind of the genesis of
00:40:36
Speaker
Vernon Valentine, really. And it's just been a sartorial evolution ever since then.
Clothing as Personal Expression
00:40:42
Speaker
You know, it's funny that you have like, you know, you kind of talk about only being the past, you know, handful of years that you've they've really like thrown yourself into clothing, but it really does sound to me just in talking to you like you've always had an innate like style.
00:41:05
Speaker
you've always had a vision that you wanted to present to things. I feel like there's gotta be a fashion versus style kind of question here. Did you have influences around you as a youngster that were kind of like, oh, this dude looks cool.
00:41:34
Speaker
Like, I think, I think, yeah, just I'd be very curious to see where you just kind of picked up your, your like even, you know, marginal enjoyment of clothing. Yeah. I mean, in, in college, I mean, I don't know, cats like, uh, like your boy, Andre Mountkast. Yeah. I mean, he was, he was a bit of a style icon in that, in that era, that era, you know? Absolutely.
00:42:02
Speaker
So that might've been some of it there. You know, say what you want about the motherfucker, but at the time too, Kanye West had his own kind of thing going on. And, you know, I might not have picked up too many cues, but I mean, you at least get a sense of, I don't know, maybe the expression of identity, you know, along with the clothing. I think that's kind of what it is for me now. You know, I guess it's, I don't want to over-intellectualize it,
00:42:33
Speaker
That to me is the style versus the fashion piece, right? I mean, what, what message are you trying to communicate with, with the clothing? Totally. But also, you know, for me, it's been something of a, I guess an expression of the individuality, but also the, I don't know, just kind of building a level of comfort with just being, being yourself.
00:43:03
Speaker
It's been something that's been, I guess, kind of at the root of a lot of things to me for a lot of years, either feeling like I had to, you know, either suppressing what I really want to be, or not really sure who I really want to be, or, you know, that tension of trying to pick up cues but not copy, or, you know, being the individual and not assimilate, I don't know, but,
00:43:31
Speaker
you know, now it's kind of a matter of just being, you know, kind of building the bone and the instinct to be me at all times, you know. Very good, very good. Yeah, I mean, people talk about style and fact. I mean, we were hesitant to even ask the question.
00:43:55
Speaker
But I wanted to talk about your Instagram posts, which I looked at all 146 of them, they are.
00:44:04
Speaker
outfit photos um and i couldn't stop thinking about each one like as a movie character you know uh and it really does seem that the photos themselves are cinematic like in the earlier ones at least where you're posing i assume recently you like have been in your house this is not like a judgment call you know things are just different now and so
00:44:30
Speaker
I wonder, have you been inspired by film? Do you like movies? Has that influenced your style? I mean, I know it's sort of inescapable, but your style is a particular one. Yeah, I mean, I do like movies. I like art generally, right? I mean, I'm very much moved by art. And I'm not conversant in art history or
00:44:59
Speaker
you know, this over there. Yeah, it's for the record, neither am I. It's just like a general appreciation. Right, right, without a doubt. And so, um, I don't know, man, I mean, you, maybe, you know, you pick up things here, there, or, you know, kind of just follow it back into the mental rolodex and, and dig it up sometime later. Um,
00:45:22
Speaker
Sometimes it's like you see an extra that has like a necker chief tied just a certain way, right? And you're like, I've never seen that before. That's not a person that is, I mean, they are in the movie, but they are not starring in the movie. So I was just wondering if you had any people, like I was thinking Western people or like old World War II movies, stuff like that.
00:45:49
Speaker
You know, if you hadn't asked me, I could probably come up with an intelligent answer to that. You killed the rap question. And so I was like, this guy's just prepared. He's a prepared person. Because I couldn't tell you that my top three, probably anything with a gun to my head.
00:46:09
Speaker
I just am not that way. I think too much, you know. So I thought it was I thought it was fucking impressive, frankly, that you rattled off those three rap songs. So I guess. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, I don't know, man. I mean, the I guess I think a little bit more about hip hop than I do about the clothing. It's more of a matter of, you know, for it to be, I don't know, thoughtless or or but organic and kind of, you know, it
00:46:38
Speaker
It moves one way or the other, depending upon any number of factors. I mean, I don't know that it's scientific. I don't know that it's formulaic. Or if it's even just a bit nonsensical to say it just kind of happens. But I don't know, man. I go through ebbs and flows with like anything else. I mean, some days I'm kind of motivated to try to push the envelope a little bit. Other days I can't
00:47:07
Speaker
I make an ugly baby and can't seem to put some shit together to save my life. I mean, it just kind of runs. And, you know, usually when I'm doing that, I'm doing too much. You know, it usually is when I'm, you know, being simple with it and not not in kind of paring things down and making it making it easier or more simple as when when the magic kind of happens. So I don't know. I mean, I've I mean, insofar as I've got a signature style, it's been more a matter of just
00:47:37
Speaker
staying true to elements I like and finding ways to just do those things in an infinite number of ways, you know? Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think that a lot, a lot, you can take a lot from that. I thought that was a good answer. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's certainly like not the norm, I feel like for people that genuinely like, you know,
00:48:06
Speaker
Appreciate clothing and stuff like I don't know Sometimes I you know you want to throw on every single thing that you think looks cool, and then you Put it together, and it's like no that that looks fucking stupid so learning to to sparse the two between how you're you know projecting how you feel and looking like a douchebag it's a hard thing, but
00:48:34
Speaker
I feel like you kind of like have been working on figuring that out. So. Well, like I said, man, you know, there's a there's 146 images up there. And yet I've been throwing new shit on for every day for two years. You can do the math. That's a lot. Yeah. So, you know, so it's it's cool, man. Like it's.
00:48:58
Speaker
I mean, I enjoy acquiring new pieces. And look, that part certainly helps me when you've got some fly shit to style with. Right. It makes life a little bit easier. You know what I mean? But listen, respect to those that can just go on.
00:49:20
Speaker
white t-shirt and some denim and just kind of a mote James Dean. You know what I mean? Like that's got a place too. Totally, man. Totally. We're style realists, if we're being honest. Let's see, I'm here for it though, man. I remember you posted, what was that fucking thing? It was so mean. Like, you know, why does every vintage cat look like Phil Collins and just a master of just, you know.
00:49:48
Speaker
I'm here for that. And y'all look at Connor's stories and it's like, all right, you know, we got the OG up underneath the sport coat with some khakis on and loafers. I mean, I'm here for that too. You know what I mean? I dig seeing people that are just very much in their element, even if it's something that I can't do. I mean, you take cues from someone else just being themselves. When I try to glean from, if I'm seeing something
00:50:16
Speaker
It may not be so much of, you know, let me do that, but I like how you put that together. Like, so how would Vernon Valentine do that same look? You know what I'm saying? Totally. Kind of just keep throwing it back to, you know, what's most authentic with what I'm trying to do with style. Yeah, man. And like you said, however you're feeling that day,
00:50:46
Speaker
That's that's kind of the goal. Yeah, that's what you said about the white socks and loafers you said that or that's not for those don't work for me today. I just thought that was a good way of saying something. That's good way of saying you don't like something I guess question mark. Well, you know what it is man is probably a benefit of therapy and just trying not to talk in absolutes and
00:51:14
Speaker
and nevers and always and won'ts. But, you know, today you might get me like that in a month or two. You know, I might, I might see the light there, you know, it's kind of just kind of keeping the door open.
00:51:29
Speaker
Yeah, I appreciate it. I mean, outside of the clothing context, I took it and put it in my brain. I thought that it was a good way of speaking, a good way of being. So I wanted to ask you, you know, we all know you have a lot of clothes, you have a lot of cool pieces.
00:51:49
Speaker
I wanted to talk about organization. How is your
Wardrobe Organization and Cherished Items
00:51:52
Speaker
wardrobe? Is it a closet? Is it a clothing? Is this an invasive question? I don't know. Yeah, it's not invasive. I mean, I got I got a trunk with the you know, the winter shit in it. Now I got a spare bedroom slash offices got a little bit more space than the than the bedroom. So that one's kind of got a little more put together and organized as far as
00:52:16
Speaker
You know, sportswear is in a corner, I think, followed by a military, followed by a workwear, followed by, you know, jackets, followed by some sport coats, followed by the alohas, followed by the denim jackets, right? The other closet, you know, I've got shelving in there, so we've got, you know, the shoes, you know, I guess the boots kind of intrinsic to the shoes, go to the,
00:52:45
Speaker
you know, the teas go through, go to the sweats, you know, we got the boots on the floor, we got, you know, the coveralls and the overalls in the corner, then the denim, then the westerns, then the kind of the everyday shirts, and then we got more of my everyday kick around, you know, office wear, sport coats, you know, trousers, you know, underneath that. Very good. No surprises. It's more dramatic, is probably how it's,
00:53:16
Speaker
how it's organized. Yeah, it's about you want your clothes to look good when you look at them, right? Well, it's that I guess I'm also kind of OCD with the shit too, man. So it's more a matter of trying to trying to keep things in a place. But I guess it also kind of helps with, I guess, kind of knowing where things are, if I need to reach for it or, you know, kind of helping to kind of figure out where I want to go if I'm, you know, the undecisive and all that.
00:53:42
Speaker
Yeah, all very impressive and valid reasons to organize something like that, as someone that cannot organize my closet to save my fucking life. So, Robert Mann, as we wrap up, I think the final couple of questions which are related,
00:54:09
Speaker
We just wanted to know what your oldest piece or garment was and what your favorite was overall. I know these are loaded questions, but. Yeah, the oldest piece. I think there might be a bandana or two in there that's 19th century. Ooh, some turkey reds. Jesus.
00:54:38
Speaker
Yeah, some Turkey red, some some kind of old cowboy shit. Big, you know, big, you know, patterned, you know, I got a couple of those in the mix. A couple like World War One era jackets and shit like that. There's a few of those mixed in there.
00:54:57
Speaker
So, you know, if press, I might even pull out a pair of like late 19th century, you know, bright ass fire engine red trousers. Those sound insanely good. Yeah. You know, a couple, a couple, maybe 1900s to 1920s. Stets might be a couple of those up in there as well. Okay.
00:55:28
Speaker
So there's there's that As far as was it favorite piece was the other part Kind of just your your you know, love it no matter what kind of piece Yeah That's wild man. I mean I when I hear questions like that. I kind of default to okay. Well, what the fuck am I saving from fire? Yeah, perfect
00:55:53
Speaker
you know, and that one's that one's probably going to be the battery bird, man. I always come back to that one. Okay. Um, of all of this shit, that one to me is just the most irreplaceable. But what's funny too, is that I don't wear these that often, but I would
00:56:16
Speaker
If I walked by the closet and looked in and saw those Okinawa boots on the top shelf, I think I'd have to grab those too. I've never seen another pair out in the wild. That was probably the luckiest acquisition I kind of happened upon. It's been, I guess, kind of being on the hunt for something specific
00:56:42
Speaker
never expecting to find it and kind of having one fall into your lap. That would be that would be that one. You know, it's probably going to be like, what can I throw on? Right. Like these these these snakeskin code west that I'm wearing now and where all the fucking time, like I'm I'm probably throwing those on as I'm as I'm leaving the burning house. I'm putting the battery bird around my neck. You know what I mean? I'm throwing the 30 steps in on
00:57:12
Speaker
And, uh, I might, I might pull the, I might pull the tomato jacket about the closet too, man. We can't, we ain't coming up on too many more of those in this lifetime. So that's probably going to be, that's probably, that's probably what I'm walking out with. All right. Yeah, dude. I'm glad that you, I'm glad that you put it all on. I think that the, like the realistic nature of that is funny. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well.
Podcast Reflections and Future Plans
00:57:40
Speaker
Robert, man, we've had a blast talking to you today. And yeah, just getting to hear people's history and kind of what they dig and what they love, man. It's nice. Well, thank you all again for having me. I've really enjoyed the series. I've heard every episode. I think it's dope. Your subjects have been dope. I'm just glad to...
00:58:10
Speaker
find myself as remarkable as some of your previous guests, but I'm glad you guys have, you know, kind of kept me in, you know, added me to the rotation. And I hope I run into you again some time, Matt, and I'll let you know when I'm in Atlanta, bro. Dude, fuck yeah, please do, please do. This is one reason why we wanted to have you on, Robert, because you're so fucking humble. Like, it's been... Yeah, yeah.
00:58:38
Speaker
And then now it's our turn to be humble and say like, every guest who comes on the show is a genius. That's why we get them, duh. And that's what's good, man. I mean, yeah, Cotton, listen, I gotta get up to be more, man, and see what's popping up there. Oh, you should both come. It's really a lovely place. I think that no one, I have never taken someone here and they've been like, what a pile of shit.
00:59:07
Speaker
So I think it's a great town. All right. All right. That's what's up, man. Well, I'll keep you both posted again. Thank you for having me on. Of course, of course. I was expecting the top five question, but I'm glad you threw me a curveball with the top three dirty South question. That was a very nice, uh, very nice way to, uh, then I have a good idea from time to time. That's, that's all I can say about that.
00:59:35
Speaker
Yeah, Robert, plug yourself my friend. Yeah, get at me Vernon Valentine on the gram. If you're interested in, you know, throwing a few dollars at the scholarship, you can send me a DM at Vernon Valentine on the gram.
00:59:54
Speaker
or you can just Google Waldrop W-A-L-D-R-U-P dash cross B-C-R-O-S-B-Y scholarship at Tulane Law School. Find all the details there to donate a couple of dollars here, a couple of dollars there, throw a pledge, help us get to that million and fund a fully arrived scholarship in perpetuity. If you're an attorney listening to this and you want to get down with some mentorship, holler at me in the same way on the gram and we'll get that pop into for our students.
01:00:24
Speaker
Hell yeah. Great, great plug. We are Apocalypse Studs at Apocalypse Studs on Instagram. Apocalypsestuds at gmail.com if you've got questions or want to tell us that we're fucking idiots. I'm Matt Smith at Rebels Ropes. And I'm Connor Fowler at Connor Fowler. And thanks for listening.