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EP 13: What you need to consider before becoming a “certified” coach w/ Cindy Owen
17 Plays7 days ago
In today’s episode, I interview an old friend and colleague, Cindy Owen. Following the death of a close friend’s child, Cindy found herself on the journey of learning how to cope with the abruptness of life. Cindy became a certified psychotherapist and eventually decided to acquire a coaching certification (among others). Cindy and I have always had a different approach to business - hers has always been more credentialed, and I’ve always subscribed to the idea that if you have genuine experience with transformation and have an energetic shift to offer, that’s enough. What I hope the listeners get from this episode is an understanding that the road that’s right for you as you start your service-based career has little to do with which path you choose (credentialed or experiential only) but why you choose it.
Neither is better than the other, and it’s up to you to decide which provides you with true inner freedom because that will be the right one for you.
I can’t wait for you to listen!!!
Muah!
Xo,
Dana
Connect with Dana HERE and Cindy HERE and tell them what you loved most about this episode and what resonated deeply.
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If you desire crystal clarity in your messaging, mission, and overall marketing to finally get out there and focus on giving value and getting paid, Soulshine has all the tools you need in one place.
If you’re ready to stop trying to figure it all out on your own and get clear so you can get paid for your life-changing services, join us now! We begin at the end of October and would be so excited to have you!!
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Click here for more info or to join.
XO,
Dana
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Transcript
00:00:02
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Modern Day Healer podcast. I'm your host, Dana Hayes, and I am so excited to share with you the stories, the trials, the tribulations, and most importantly, the triumphs of my own as well as many other successful modern day healers.
00:00:20
Speaker
We've gone all in to pursue our passion, to make an impact in the world by helping humans heal from the past and find true empowerment in their lives today. So what exactly is a modern day healer, you might ask? A modern day healer is you.
00:00:37
Speaker
She is me and anyone else who feels a calling to help others heal, grow, and share their light. You could be a wife, a mother, a teacher, a writer, a speaker, a podcast host. You might be a workshop producer, a course creator.
00:00:54
Speaker
You're most likely an entrepreneur and can't shake the desire to make your calling your career because you know how much impact you could make if you went all in and had the opportunity to share your story with the world. That is a modern day. healer. I am a podcast host, a co-author of an amazing book about the journey of sobriety, a wife, a mom of two young children, and the creator of the spiritual lifestyle brand, Living in Power. I am Dana and I am a modern day healer. I am so glad you're here. Let's get started.
00:01:36
Speaker
Hey, welcome, welcome, welcome to today's episode of the Modern Day Healer podcast. Today I have my friend, were you, were you my client at one time, Sydney, or did we not work together? Maybe we didn't. No, we didn't work together. We kind of were collaborating over the group that I was doing with mindfulness and kind of sharing ideas of a bigger group that we were in.
00:02:02
Speaker
Okay. That's okay. So this, this woman is an OG in my life, especially in my coaching career, because we met it's almost, it's almost eight, nine years ago now. Um, yeah. And so she is a psychotherapist. She comes from psychotherapy, um, with an angle of Eastern philosophy. And I think.
00:02:30
Speaker
that the way that she approaches her business is so inspiring and so beautiful. And that's why she's on this show today. So I want to introduce my friend, Cindy Owen. She is amazing. Thank you for being here, Cindy. Oh, thank you so much. I'm excited about this. Me too. um So just like with every other person that's on this podcast, you know, I want to ask you what got you into psychotherapy. what Why are you a psychotherapist? What got you to this place? And um how hard was it to get there? I want to know the story behind Cindy becoming who she is today. And like you said, the good, the bad, the ugly, the difficulties, the struggles, but also like the beautiful parts. So tell us everything. Don't hold anything back. And let's kind of take it back to the beginning.
00:03:27
Speaker
good Okay, ah so I think the beginning, let's see, and this may sound a little bit cliche, but um I was raised in a household with a very misogynistic abuse of alcoholic bother. So for the first 20 years of my life, we were kept small. We were belittled and kept small.
00:03:54
Speaker
And I was a fighter. I fought back. It really didn't help me much in that situation, but I did fight back and I made sure that I put myself through university. Right. And that, that was, that was quite a hard thing. Um, couldn't get a loan cause my parents made too much money, but refused to pay. So it was, it was quite the struggle and I did it and I got a degree in psychology.
00:04:21
Speaker
So what happened from there was just, I did a bit of traveling. Uh, I don't, this is a Canadian thing, but in the 1990s, when I was looking for work, they were not hiring any kind of social service programs. So I ended up in Japan for two years. So that was, um, quite the experience and I was teaching, but I was also given this, so I think I was 30 and someone gave me a book, uh, called Siddhartha was on the first Buddha.
00:04:50
Speaker
right sadharha go go um but autonomy So I read it and was kind of fascinated. So I'd always kind of read things like that, but I didn't have my so i didn't have my psychotherapy um designation at that point because I just had a bachelor's in in psychology. So when I came back to Canada, I ended up working a lot of different jobs within mental health, frontline mental health though.
00:05:18
Speaker
But I think the most significant thing for me is that I was moving back to my hometown and I was staying with a friend for a while. I had to look for an apartment. um She was going back to school and she kind of needed a nanny for her two kids and it was it we where it worked out perfect. I would move in for her for you know the the months while she was at school and then she had that and then I could go on my own. But the really difficult and significant thing was that while I was there, her 10-year-old son died. And that was just beyond my comprehension of how could anything like this happen in this world? What is what is wrong? So we were all in a state of shock, just but just a state chart
00:06:07
Speaker
And I remember thinking, nothing makes sense. Like, absolutely nothing makes sense on this earth. You live, you die, and you don't even know when that's gonna happen. And I had a friend who was, um I knew he'd been to India, and I knew he was studying, you know, Buddhism and things like that. And I just called him and I said, Jerry, this is what's happened. I have no idea how to process this. It just makes no sense. That rubble is just so horrible and broken.
00:06:37
Speaker
And he's like, Cindy, I'm starting this program. just Just come to it. Just be open. Just see what you think. And everything started to click. It just started to fall into place. The philosophies, the being with your mind, how it resonates in the body. Because as like psychotherapists, we were never taught to listen to the body. It was always, what's going on in the mind and how can you change it? And this was like,
00:07:06
Speaker
What's going on in the mind and how can we be with it and be with it in a different way? How is it affecting your body? How can we go deep into the body and kind of heal from that way up? You know, there was, there was so much, so much detail to it. And, you know, all these assumptions we make, and he would call me on everything. That's an assumption. That's a judgment.
00:07:29
Speaker
It's like, yeah, I do that my whole life. And I think I know things. I think I know how life is running because I make my own assumptions. I make my own judgments. And really, I know nothing. So I studied like this for probably a good three years, very, very formally. I went to an ashram. I went to different classes. I went to all different kinds of perspectives.
00:07:57
Speaker
And then I kept up with it. So back then, um Buddhism wasn't really talked about much. And I remember working in ah in a mental health addictions hospital, and I was forming a group with them. And I said, okay, where do you bring the part about self compassion, self compassion, believe my mind. And I'll explain a bit later if I have to, or I will. But they said, Oh, no, that's a religion.
00:08:27
Speaker
and and And I thought that is insane. Because if you can't have compassion for yourself, how can you do anything else? Like we are a culture that is so, so hard on ourselves. And we think if we're hard on ourselves, that means we're going to change. And it is the exact opposite of what happens. The exact opposite. So I took tons of courses. I did my cognitive behavior therapy. I did mindfulness based cognitive therapy. I did mindfulness based compassion. I got my facilitating certificate. um I just, I just studied and immersed myself in it, but I couldn't use it anywhere in my job. So fortunately what happened is the registered psychotherapist program in, in Ontario,
00:09:18
Speaker
was going to formalize. So there were a lot of people out there that were doing therapy that weren't qualified. So what they did is that we had to apply. So I applied and I got grandparented into the college because I didn't have that masters. However, I had all this extensive education in so many other different things that they said, yeah, you're you're you're fine. You're great. So that's when I got my designation and It was rough. I was fighting myself at first, of course. I was running courses at the hospital. i was I went out and did courses on my own. I had to i had to leave the hospital. it's It's interesting because it's a mental health addictions hospital, but their care of their employees' mental health was not very good. I also had my father die and because he started drinking the last three years, which sent the whole family back into a loop.
00:10:19
Speaker
Um, so I had to process that and I'd left my job and I was working on things and trying a lot of different things as we all do and paying people money to try and help me get there. And at the end of the day, I owe, and I did get my coaching certificate. So I am a certified coach, but I just realized I am meant to be a therapist. It's what I absolutely love, love, love to do.
00:10:48
Speaker
So I just opened my own practice and now I i specialize in mindfulness and meditation and I and i do a consultation with everyone before they see me so that I can explain this is exactly what I do so that they know what they're getting into and also what's going on with them and how I can help and it's just gone from there. So I have a small practice um but it's mine and I love it. So long story short, which is kind of too late. That's how I got into psychotherapy. That is okay. So I have a question about therapy because I think this is a conundrum that a lot of coaches find themselves in. And I know I found myself in is the conundrum of whether or not to allow yourself to be, um,
00:11:47
Speaker
I don't want to say boxed in or in the confines of an institution because sometimes, for the right person, that is actually a much clearer path. that's a That's an easier path. That's a more expansive path because there's so much structure around it. And for some people, more structure is a path to greater expansion. But for others who um seek more limitless,
00:12:20
Speaker
like where they're allowed to basically do whatever they want, right? And say whatever they want and have zero limitations on their self-expression. This is the conundrum that I have seen many people fall into. And I know for myself, when I first started,
00:12:38
Speaker
I got my degree in psychology. I have a bachelor's in science in psychology. And then I went into counseling and I was going to get my master's in counseling, but I quickly realized that I personally would be making a mistake because my, who I am at the core is very testy. I'm almost incapable of keeping my mouth shut when I've experienced something and I want to I want to express it and I didn't want anybody telling me what I could or could not say to somebody else basically. Now I know that there's a level of responsibility to be taken and I mean a high level of responsibility um and gaining enough experience in whatever field you're in in order to make sure that you're not retraumatizing somebody or doing more harm than good. That being said, if you were toying with the idea of
00:13:38
Speaker
becoming a coach, right? Getting certified. And then I had the realization that your heart lies within the institutionalized therapy profession. um What was it that made you decide against the coaching, I guess is what I'm asking. It's funny because when I was taking my um coaching certificate, when I was taking the classes and doing the examples, I would get, I would get nailed that I would go too deep. That I would, I would, I would be getting more into childhood things and, and, you know, kind of like therapy kind of stuff, which is, and the way I was taught, it's very different from coaching. I don't know if that's changed now because this was 10 or 15 years ago, right?
00:14:35
Speaker
So every time I would say they go, oh, no, no, if that's therapy, you need to stay away from that. This is what we do. You know, keep it, keep it on the professional level, keep it here. And I had a hard, hard time getting away from that and I couldn't. So I just realized that um coaching is not where I wanted to be. I think there's great, great people that can help other people in life transitions with very structured You know, let's do this. Let's create a plan. Let's, you know, what are the next steps? I was not very good about that because I wanted to say what's stopping you from doing this step and go very deep into that, which ended up in, which ended up going very much a therapy route. So that's what it was for me. And like I said, I don't know if things have changed with how they teach coaches, but back then I would always get
00:15:32
Speaker
shut down for half of the things I would say. Well, that's interesting. That's almost the perspective I have of therapy because the the way that I've come into coaching, as you know, is not the credentialed path. Like it's not the certified path. I do not personally subscribe to needing a certification if you have genuine life experience with something profoundly transformative.
00:16:00
Speaker
If, you know, I, I just, I really believe in my heart of hearts that if you have had that energetic shift within that change of heart and you know what you've done to do that, that's enough right there to help somebody else. Now it's funny because you're like describing.
00:16:21
Speaker
the way that these certification programs are teaching you as the way that I felt like the APA was teaching me. I was like, i don want how are you going to tell me that I'm going, yeah what? this like This is just makes sense to me. And so that's what I love about coaching. So it's interesting because it's the same thing that it sounds like you love about therapy. Well, and you know, I think this is why I went out in my own, um,
00:16:48
Speaker
because yes, you are limited. and And I think we were talking about earlier when I was first, well, A, there's a high, high burnout in frontline workers in mental health, like a high rate. We have the most amount of responsibility and the least amount of control. What is the frontline worker exactly? ah Frontline was working with people with mental health problems in the community. So helping them stay on their medication, find find housing, find psychiatrists,
00:17:16
Speaker
Um, it was a jack of all trades. If something went wrong, everybody would come to me and say, okay, they're homeless. You need to fix that. Um, they've just, you know, got arrested for this. You need to get them in this program. Right. And a lot of these things were out of my control. Right. You can only do so much with, with people and then they have to meet you halfway. And.
00:17:43
Speaker
And unfortunately, a lot of times you get people with personality disorders who, you know, they wouldn't be willing to meet you halfway, but they expect you to fix it. And the other times they're just weren't the programs to put in place for people. And I just found that really sad. You know, they're just, they're, I could not get this person housing. There was so much red tape and everything like that. And I just, I just found it really sad. And and a lot of us just burn out.
00:18:10
Speaker
And I could not use the type of, the type of teachings that I had done in in my Buddhist practice. Like, like I said, they, when I introduced compassion, they said it's religion and we don't work with that. And that was back then because now I know they're doing a whole program, program in compassion therapy. But when I was there, it was like, no, no, no, no.
00:18:34
Speaker
So I kind of became a little bit of the expert, known as the expert in the hospital on mindfulness and meditation, but that was with the other staff. You know, the powers that be were like, no, we do not do that at all. So I ended up, I was, I did actually try and start a bit of a coaching program um consultation on the side for myself. I just,
00:18:58
Speaker
And one of the things that held me back too was getting the word out, marketing, all that kind of stuff. I really felt um insecure about it. And my whole thing is I totally agree with you. If you have a talent and so many people do, they can just read people and they can just know, you know, they just have this empathy. They have this compassion that they're able to help people go in different directions that they need to go. They listen. And I totally believe you,
00:19:29
Speaker
You don't need a degree for that. And it's almost like the degree holds you back sometimes because you're so confined. um For me, I kept getting all of this education and education and this course and this course and this course, because I didn't, but i for myself, I didn't believe that I had anything that I could, um that I could not brag about, but I could say, yes, I do this without the piece of paper behind me.
00:19:59
Speaker
So when I got my, I got into my, second when I got my psychotherapy designation with College of Ontario, I started my own practice because I only work with people that I want to work with. I give them at this 15 minute consultation and I explain exactly the type of therapy I do. If they don't like that, that's okay. Then there are a lot of other people that they can go to. There are some people that um when I hear their story, I give them different directions. I'm not the right person for them.
00:20:29
Speaker
So it's it's really about, for me, it's about being able to work with the people who really want to work with me and I want to work with them. And it's just, it's just, it's just so freeing. Yes. I, okay. So I love the direction that that just took because I think it's something that everyone listening needs to hear. um And it's so interesting.
00:20:54
Speaker
your perspective because of the route that you've chosen to take, which is in my, like, if I was to be explaining this to somebody else, the different paths that you could take, I would probably be defining the path that you took as the more confined path. However, it's been the most freeing path for you. And I think a really important concept for people to understand is that there are infinite amounts of business strategies, paths that you can take, but they all and they all work. But the one that's gonna work for you is the one that works for you, the one that feels best for you and your energy, for your unique personality, for the way that you operate. And really, as long as
00:21:50
Speaker
We're aware that we are sometimes gathering pieces of paper, certifications, degrees, because we're still not comfortable with showing up and expressing our authentic nature. I think that is, that might be one of the biggest deterrents from people actually making a career out of coaching, out of what it is that their heart is calling them to do. But I think the first step is really getting to know yourself at a deep, deep level, because then you can speak from that depth, you know, and you're marketing, we're all, we're not just coaches. We're not just mentors. We're not just healers or therapists. We're also, if we're online, we're marketers. like You have to be an online marketer and you have to understand that to stand out
00:22:45
Speaker
You can't be copying anybody else, first of all, because people will sniff it out in a second and you're going to feel inauthentic. And then it kind of stops you from wanting to show up more because it's also very confusing. It's like, what am I supposed to be saying? Who am I talking to? I don't even know what I'm supposed to be doing right now. But when you know yourself on that really deep level that it takes in order to show up with consistency, with a very unique message,
00:23:14
Speaker
it's going to naturally differentiate you from everybody else that has the same certifications and the same degrees and the same state standing with these professional institutions that you do, right? So it's really taking a step back and yeah know this is all I'm talking about right now with the launch of Soul Shine, like we were just talking about. This is, I really believe in order to find clarity in the direction that you want to go and to show up with enthusiasm and conviction and confidence, it's really less about the credentials and way more about finding yourself first and speaking from that place. So I really love the fact that you brought up, you know that you were aware that you were like almost validating yourself through certifications and whatnot. However, that was the path that you needed to take to get to where you are to a place where you feel
00:24:12
Speaker
really free, right? And that's the point. That's the point of all of this. What path is going to bring us to a state of liberation in our businesses, which are an extension of our souls? I mean, it's all spiritual. and Nothing is compartmentalized here. So your business is also spiritual. So you want to feel liberated and limitless in that as well. So I love that You know, you were very honest and also it still brought you to where you want to be, but in a completely different way than I went. Oh yeah, completely different way. I had to immerse myself in groups, workshops. I mean, soul searching, like what you're doing, what I'm doing with with this the Eastern religions and the mindfulness and all that. We did not learn that in school.
00:25:05
Speaker
You know, if we had the life, our, our world would be such a different place, but I had to learn it from the ground up and it took time. And it's, it's, it's interesting because they do say, and I don't know about coaches, um, but most therapists are just barely eking out a living. Like most of us are not because we're not marketers. We do not know how to market ourselves at all. We're not teach that we're not taught that in school.
00:25:35
Speaker
I actually hear there might be a bit of a business program for for people getting their masters in psychology who want to, who want to be a therapist, but I'm not sure if that's true or not. But we we just do not know how to do it. And we can't collect testimonies, right? It's against the rules in the college. So we can't put things on social media or on our website that this person said this about me, or this person found that they got this out of it.
00:26:04
Speaker
So it's, it's a completely different ball game and I'm not sure how much it compares to coaching. I think it probably does compare to coaching a lot. I mean, when you're a coach, you love and know your stuff, but it's the marketing you don't know. Yeah, I would say that's the biggest issue. And that's going back to social because that's why I created it because that's where I started. It's like, I came on the scene knowing.
00:26:32
Speaker
The only thing I knew, which was I wanted to help people. I wanted to serve at a higher level. I wanted to help people find their purpose in all of this stuff. But what I didn't know was that regurgitating information and repeating what somebody else had said that I thought was true, um you know wasn't differentiating me whatsoever. And that the marketing was really going to be coming from the energized enthusiasm that I felt by having the experience of change and the experience of finding my own purpose and really knowing how I did that. Otherwise, it all felt very hard. And um i I see so many new coaches coming onto the scene
00:27:20
Speaker
wanting to serve and literally just spewing information instead of transformation, right? It just feels like it's gotten so noisy because everyone is saying the same thing. And unfortunately, unless you have real life experience with a profound change, with ah with a change that you're like, oh my God, I am a different person. It's going to be very difficult to express what that change looks like and and the outcomes of that change because you're not actually, if you're not actually experiencing it, if you're not actually feeling it, how are you going to be able to tell other people about it, get people really excited and ah excited enough to work with you and to pay you for that transformation that you're saying you can offer. It really does come down to the depth and the weight of the message that you have and
00:28:14
Speaker
That's what I had to learn the hard way. I definitely tried to, um, be a carbon copy of like Amy Porterfield. I remember just like staring at her website for hours and hours and trying to reverse engineer everything that she was doing. And what I was really doing was boxing myself into somebody else's concept of marketing. And what I know now is the only marketing, I mean, this is my belief.
00:28:40
Speaker
but this is what I see every day. The only marketing for coaches that really works is when you're able to express yourself, um your true self, not just talking, not just like showing up looking pretty and saying things, that's not expressing, that's not creating, that's not um that's not being in your light. It's by expressing that, like I said, light within, that you letting your soul shine and letting that be the magnetic energy that attracts people who would be most aligned with what you do and repels
00:29:21
Speaker
Right? As a magnet is not just an attractor, it is also a repulsion unit. So, repels people who would not be a fit. But if you're just in the middle saying what everybody else is saying or trying to reverse engineer what somebody else is already doing, there is no polarity in that whatsoever. There's just neutrality and nobody means in my experience, it just doesn't seem like neutrality is really the most magnetic thing. And I think that's just as a property of science. ah Well, it's totally true because I followed Amy also and was, you know, trying to follow her marketing plans. I also joined this other marketing program, which was
00:30:05
Speaker
embarrassling expense So I'm not going to say the amount. Um, but it was a marketing program that worked for, or so they said, it worked for everybody. Like you could have any kind of business and we're going to get you to take your business to the next level, you know, and it, and it was, it was always a fight back, right? Because it was like, you have to do testimonials and we're like, okay, well, we can't do testimonials. Well, you have to do this. It's like, okay, we can't because of the college, right? There was never any specific specific type of business.
00:30:35
Speaker
specificity can't speak right now, but there was never any of that for any particular group. It was just all one package. And um so what I'm doing now is I am working with a, I guess, marketing group, but um it's in Canada. They're not that far from me. They're in Kitchener. I'm in Guelph, which for context for your audience, it's near Toronto in in Canada.
00:31:05
Speaker
Um, but they only work with therapists, right? Like you are only working with, with coaches, right? There's no cross cross businesses or anything like that. You have to worry about it's very, very specific. And I like that. This is, this is where I think, okay, I can start getting more specific stuff. Right. And a lot of these bigger marketing companies, they teach you how to do it.
00:31:34
Speaker
And when you do it and you ask for feedback, I remember getting something I asked, they said, no, that's not right. And I asked for feedback and I said, well, well, how should I write it? Well, just not like that. And it's like, okay, well that is not helpful at all. You know, I want like hands-on feedback. I want you to help me come up with the words because this is why I hired a marketing company. So this is something that I need, you know, and I'm sorry, I'd love to draw you a problem, but your American dollar is just killing us.
00:32:09
Speaker
um But yeah, so I think being very specific with the group that you're working for is so, so important because otherwise it's just the big band-aid that never gets ripped off because you can never find what's going on in the core. Yeah, I agree and I have to just specify that I don't just work with coaches. It's anyone that wants to empower people through their business. So right hairdressers because they like stand behind somebody and listen to all of their stuff and want to feel energetically like
00:32:45
Speaker
overflowing after instead of feeling empty and deprived. Um, but they empower people through their business, through however it is that that comes through them. But I totally agree. There needs to be some serious specificity before you go work with somebody who's going to help you with your marketing. Otherwise it's like, that's the point. Are you, are you somebody who is going to dump? I mean,
00:33:14
Speaker
gobs of money into becoming a mass market product? Or are you trying to go the organic route and do it yourself? And if you are going the organic route and trying to do it without paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for ads, then honestly, the best way to stand out is by knowing who you are at the core and expressing that showing people like here's basically what you can expect if you work with me and it's allowing somebody to see what, what they, the possibilities that are available to them through you and through your work. And that's all the marketing is. And it's very interesting again that you're bringing up, um, paying somebody else to come in and to help you with your marketing because like we were talking before the episode,
00:34:06
Speaker
I really think that if I was to do that, I would have wasted so much money, especially in the beginning, if I didn't already know what my personal, very unique message, position, mission, all of those things was. And I can sit there, I remember sitting there all day long, jotting things down in a notebook, trying to flesh it out. It's not something that we can manufacture. It's not something that we can just come up with from our heads. It's got to come from your heart. And there's, it's like when you find your soulmate, you wouldn't, you know, you know, kind of thing. It's that unique, right? It's something that only comes along once in a lifetime. And that's why it works. That's why it makes you stand out because you are only coming once in a lifetime for all of these other people that are watching you. So
00:35:00
Speaker
Yeah, ah I totally agree with getting specific, knowing what you're doing. And for you, it's amazing because you do know your marketing message. I know you do you spewed it off to me before we got on the call. and and And then you delegated that to somebody else who has the knowledge and technology to put it onto a website where you instead of what's the other word, instead of delegating, you could be, um, uh,
00:35:29
Speaker
It's like where you're literally just putting things on people and hoping to God that they can do it all for you. But I really need to be able to do it for ourselves first and then give it, we have to be able to pass it off to somebody else to elevate it. You know what I mean? Right. Yes. Yes. It needs to be a collaboration. And then yes, I'm very happy to delegate tech stuff because that is beyond my scope. um But yes, the message definitely needs to be a collaboration. And I actually was thinking, I love what you said about the diversity of the audience that you work with, because it's so true working with, I mean, a hairdresser, they're frontline. Anybody who works with the public is frontline. If you think about it, bartenders, wait staff, you know, cops, paramedics, fire people, right? Nurses, teachers, you know, are frontline.
00:36:27
Speaker
We have to deal with other people and their idiosyncrasies and their, you know, most, most often delightfulness, but a lot of times they're rudeness, they're demanding, like, you know, and how do you be with that every day? Right? Without letting it suck your soul. You know, so that, that's. How do you do that? i And that's the whole thing, right? Like, and that's, that's what we teach. That's what I teach, right?
00:36:57
Speaker
This is coming from them. How do you want to be with it? Right? So, yeah. Do you have any practices that you could you could talk about right now where like, okay, so let's just go back to the hairdresser example, because it's a great one, um or photographer, or anybody that is trying to live in their light, which is the overflow, right? Trying to fill their cup, live in their light, and help other people to do the same, regardless of what business path they take. What could you tell them
00:37:33
Speaker
that would help them to stay in the overflow instead of getting into a state of being depleted after they have done their job and worked with people and and tried to spread their light? um First, I would say don't take anything personally. What comes from other people is coming from them. It's coming from their background. It's been it's coming from You know, so many different factories, even what they had for breakfast, was it tasteful? Was it yucky? Like what interactions did they have that morning? What's going on in and their lives in general? Like we all come from that kind of a stance when we're with other people. So it's really about not taking anything personally because that person is doing the best they can with what they know. And sometimes it can be crappy, right? That's just where we are. I mean, I've been there too.
00:38:30
Speaker
um Another thing, and I think like we do this because it's very hard to get, it's very easy to get very negative in this world, especially with what's coming at us every day in the news, in the media, um even just like scrolling through Facebook and Instagram and all that. There's a lot of negativity out there. So, um and it's trying to put like a piece of Teflon in front of you so that doesn't,
00:39:00
Speaker
that doesn't kind of take a hold. I have these things that I call pillow meditations that I often give people. So pillow meditation would be when you go to bed at night, you know you think of five things that you did well. Five things where you either just express kindness or you did a good deed or whatever. It could be, a good deed could be, like I said, picking up pencil off the floor so no one falls on it.
00:39:30
Speaker
could be opening a door for someone. I mean, it's how often do we go into a burning building and save a family of five and their dog? like That's just not realistic. But these tiny little things are so with realistic and they matter. you know And it could be even sometimes of keeping our mouth shut when we just want to scream. right How often does that happen where you just want to say, just just stop talking. Just just stop.
00:39:58
Speaker
you know and just being able to resist that. And then I also say there are some days, right, depending on what we're going through, where it's very difficult for us to find some good things that we've done, right? When we have our really negative downer days, and then we suggest that, well, if you can't think of anything for yourself, think of five different things that you saw other people do, that kindness. It could have someone open the door for me. Someone said, hello, I watched this person help like help someone with their grocery shopping. you know it just Just anything that we can think of that would bring in that could balance that negativity. So I give them that quite often. It's it's one of the signature, um one of the signature practices, a home practice that I would give. Because I think it's important every session to give a home practice, right? Because I only see them
00:40:57
Speaker
like an hour once a week, the whole learning and the process comes when they when they actually take the concepts and they do it on their own. I love that because in Soul Shine, that's exactly what I teach. It's like, okay, you can have all these concepts in your head. You can know all of the information that you know, but in order to have that full heart change and to know who you are at the core, you've got to be doing the daily practices.
00:41:24
Speaker
every ah day. And one of the best things that I feel like you just said was, you know, ah when we're balancing that negativity out, which is essential, right? In order to get clear on your marketing message, in order to get clear on your mission and all of these things that differentiate you, you literally have to clear yourself out first in order to connect with that place where all of those answers lie and clearing yourself out of the resentments and the negativity from the day.
00:41:54
Speaker
is essential in order to get to that place of limitless um possibility for yourself and and speaking from that place of depth and weight that we were talking about. And I love that you were saying, you know, people are only doing the best that they can. And I tell people that all the time. And I did a TikTok on this the other day, um the the part where you're talking about not taking anything personally. I feel like that is that is such a common human thing to do, right? Cause we're all kind of stuck in our own perspective as we walk out throughout the day. But something that works really, really well for me, um, is like, let's say I'm on the phone with somebody and they're, they're just talking and they're saying things that completely go against my own belief system. And I'm like, who would you be saying this right now? This is so offensive. Do you know who you're talking to? and So clearly I'm getting sensitive, right? And I'm taking it personally.
00:42:51
Speaker
When in reality, what I should be doing is taking that sensitivity, I'm feeling inwardly and putting it out and being sensitive towards them. And so the practice that I do is in those moments, I literally just repeat to myself, it's not about me. It's not about me. It's not about me. It's not about me. And it literally gets me out of my head to the point where I can listen and I can actually be sensitive to what this person is trying to communicate to me non-verbally.
00:43:21
Speaker
Right? They're telling me something that maybe is a completely different thing than what I'm trying to perceive from the words that they're saying. Um, because what I'm perceiving is obviously just coming from my own perspective and it's probably very limited in what it is. So I love that you've got that. Yeah. Well, it comes down to, um, I think a lot of compassion, right? Showing compassion for that other person.
00:43:48
Speaker
and showing compassion for yourself and being able to be with it. There is a great book, and I don't know if you've read it, called The Four Agreements, by ri um Rio I think the name, I think I butchered that name. But it's amazing work on what he talks about on don't take anything personally, everything that is coming from us.
00:44:10
Speaker
is coming from us. Anything that comes from them is coming from them. I was looking at my book plan, let's see if I had it right there. I think it's Miguel Reyes. Miguel Rías, thank you. Yes, Miguel Rías, I got the name backwards. Okay, thank you. Yeah, little mind slip there. Yeah, so. And and I think the whole thing is is, you know, having that compassion for ourselves that we're not taught to have.
00:44:38
Speaker
Right? Like we're not taught to be compassionate with ourselves. We were never raised that way. And compassion just means being able to hold our own pain, to be able to say sometimes, yeah, this really hurts. Yeah, I'm, I'm suffering without adding on the, I shouldn't be what's wrong with me. This isn't right. I'm weak. Right? Rather just being able to acknowledge, you know, right now this hurts and it's okay. I can be with it.
00:45:06
Speaker
and And I think that's huge in the work that we do. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that the way that you explain self-compassion is so important because it becomes another way to take the pressure off to release the valve so that you're able to actually become present and aware and more capable of receiving the opportunities of life that are right there for you or the answers that you're looking for.
00:45:36
Speaker
You know, because when we aren't practicing self-compassion or compassion for other people, that's when I feel like the pressure's on, obviously. And then the beating the self up and all of the self-doubt comes in. All of the negativity, that's super heavy. That's heavy energy that blocks us from knowing who we are at the core and from being able to connect to that. Yeah. Oh.
00:46:01
Speaker
Absolutely, and I've worked with so many people and one of the first questions I ask them is is I ask, how do you speak with yourself? And 90% will be not nicely, not kind, right? um And the whole thing is, I remember working with someone, talking about this concept and and easing up on herself and and having some compassion for that pain she's in. And her big fear, and this is a fear of a lot of people,
00:46:29
Speaker
If I ease up on myself, it means I won't change. It means i'll stay i so I'll stay the same way of the things that I hate about myself. And actually, the direct opposite is true. know Once we start easing up on ourselves, once we can approach ourself with some kindness, then we can be with ourselves in a different capacity and start to change. you know it's it's you know I mean, we don't bully others, but we bully ourselves.
00:46:59
Speaker
Oh my God, this is so good. I, so much experience with this, um, in particular, it's the fear. Like what you were just saying was for me, the fear of not having control over the outcome. Right. And like you just said, it's a paradox because what you're trying to do is control all of the outside circumstances in your situation, in your life, in order to get an outcome that you think is good enough.
00:47:28
Speaker
Right? But what's happening is you are actually blocking the higher outcome from coming in and being available to you because you're trying so hard to grasp and attach and grab at these external things in order to control yourself and to control your emotions and to control everything around you. And it completely blocks you. It's another blocker. It's another way to cut yourself off from the outcomes that actually would be the most beneficial, not just for you, but for the entire world. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting that you put it like that because a lot of, um, with the Buddhist, the Eastern practices, basically how we're driven is we're either pushing away or we're grasping for more and we're never with what actually is. And I know there's this beautiful,
00:48:21
Speaker
Um, saying from the Buddha that when these things arrive, like when you're hard on yourself, when you're angry with yourself, when you're angry with other people, when you're feeling sad, disappointed, any kind of negative emotion, and even some, part and even the positive emotions, invite them in for tea. Have them sit down with you and just be with them in a compassionate, understanding way, because those are the part of you. Those are the parts of you.
00:48:48
Speaker
And they come out mentally and they also come out very physically. This is what anxiety is. All of this coming out physically and just coming in and bringing them in for tea and having, you know, just having some kindness towards them. Cause that's what we're all searching for. We're searching for kindness. Yeah. I think that's incredibly insightful and it, it's like, so I have a very, um,
00:49:18
Speaker
I don't want to say angry, disposition, that's not true. But I can be super hot tempered. And honestly, for the most part, at this point in my life, it's triggered by my seven year old. And not many other people can can get to me at all, really. Even my husband, I mean, we don't fight, we don't have arguments for the most part at all. But before that neutrality to life happened,
00:49:46
Speaker
Um, I was constantly aware of my anger. And actually, if you would read my diaries from back when I was a teenager, I always talked about my rage blackouts. Like I had rage blackouts and I would just be so angry. And a lot of those diary entries were me trying to fix it and me trying to figure myself out. And it's a big reason why I got a psychology degree because I was trying to fix myself. Like many of us do. So i exactly.
00:50:16
Speaker
Yeah, so I was trying my hardest to figure that out, and to fix it, and I hated myself for it. I really genuinely loathed myself. I did so many things to hurt myself, i physically, mentally, emotionally, and other people. And inviting those negative low-level energy emotions in for tea is such a nice, beautiful, kind way to put how I have dealt with my anger and how I have managed it. And it's not even managing it. It's really befriending it and going, what are you trying to tell me? It's like i the way that I heard it.
00:51:00
Speaker
And it was ah just along the path ah while I was essentially finding myself and learning how to fulfill myself with my soul, which really allowed me to drop many of the devices that I had, including anger, like arguing and getting invites and getting so angry. um But something I heard that I thought really fit was that it's almost like a child coming to you over and over again and pulling on your pant leg and pulling on your pant leg and saying like, I need your attention. Like I need your attention. And I was not giving it my attention. I was screaming at it to go away and I was fighting it and it just gave it momentum.
00:51:48
Speaker
And it builds it bigger because then I'm hating myself. So I'm just creating more of the same. So anyway, I love that. I think that that's very fitting. sir Yeah, it's, it's, it's really fascinating. Everything that we're trying to push away from ourselves or the things that really need our attention. And our bodies are smarter than we are. Most of the time we feel it in our bodies and we're not listening. And that's why I do a lot of bodywork with people just saying, where does this hurt? Okay. What is this trying to tell you? And,
00:52:19
Speaker
However, we live from the neck up and we ignore it. So I think it's, I think it's just really being ah important, being able to sit with yourselves in quiet and see where it affects you bodily and mentally, which we don't do in this culture. We're just busy, busy, busy, trying to push everything away or trying to grasp everything. And really it just leaves us in a perpetual state of wanting, wanting more, wanting things to be different.
00:52:47
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. What would you say to the person? Cause I've heard this too many times from my clients. What would you say to the person that says, I just can't meditate. I, my mind is just too busy. Oh, I get that so often. Yes. And you know what? Meditation, basically meditation just means a single focus, right?
00:53:12
Speaker
Meditation just doesn't it doesn't have to be sitting in the lotus position with your with your fingers crossed and and you know for an hour just going, um, right? I mean, I can't do that. Meditation is, is it could be three deep breaths. That's a meditation, right? Three or five deep breaths. That's a meditation. It could be paying attention when you wash the dishes, right? Being fully immersed in you know, seeing the plate dirty, then it becoming clean, seeing and noticing the bubbles. It could be taking a walk and just feeling the air on your face. All of those different aspects are meditation. They're just allowing you to slow down and come into the present moment. And we practice it formally. So this is how we can practice it informally every day, just having it become a part of us. We practice it formally.
00:54:05
Speaker
um Because I often give people this three minute this tiny little three minute meditation thing where I guide them through the home and the whole three minutes so they're not doing it on their own. And it brings them into the present moment so that they're able to kind of pause and go, okay, what's next? Now what? It gives them the ability to choose their next step rather than being on that automatic pilot. So we call that formal practice, which is really breaking the habit of being on that ah constant automatic pilot. hey the more We know that the more you practice things, the better we become at it. And since our brain is a muscle, as we're practicing it, whether it's formally or informally, we're teaching our brain how to just focus more on concentration, right which concentration is bringing us into the present moment with exactly what is. It's like, okay, this is what is.
00:55:03
Speaker
How do I want to be with it? So yeah, people saying I can't or I don't have time. It's, it's, I think they have that. I think they have a bigger aspect or, and this could be too, that they put so much pressure on themselves. If I do it, it has to be perfect, right? I have to sit there for half an hour. And that's just not what it is. It's just not what people are capable of in the beginning, maybe ever. Maybe people just, I mean, I know for me, meditation is reading.
00:55:33
Speaker
Right? That's one of my forms of meditation. um king Also walking outside. Those are my forms of meditation. Breathing. What I can see in my body that it's becoming a little agitated or there's little aches and pains here and there. I know it's not because anything wrong. I know it's because of what's going on in my head. So my body is my cue. Okay. Three to five deep breaths. And it could be, Oh yeah, I have a neat now all day.
00:56:00
Speaker
Or it could be, I haven't had a glass of water since yesterday. Or it could be, I've been worried about this that happened yesterday. Or I'm thinking about this that's happening in the future, right? But just those 3D breaths gives me that chance to come back into the present moment. And that's a meditation.
00:56:24
Speaker
I love that. And i tell my I tell all of my clients that First of all, this is like one thing that I cannot emphasize enough is that meditation is essential. Like you, I don't think that experiencing the awakening that we're talking about, you know, that I've been mentioning here and there throughout this entire episode, which is, you know, an awakening is really just you connecting back to your true self, to your whole self, to your healed self. And
00:56:59
Speaker
I don't think that you can do that without meditation. I just don't believe that. And I could be wrong, but like you just said, there are so many different forms of meditation that there's one out there that is perfect for anybody. And also I always tell my clients that just start with a minute, literally just start with one minute. I started with one minute and eventually I did get to the point where I really love being in those deep, like one to one and a half hour meditations, but that's me. And I like it because that's where I gained all of my clarity. That's where my brain, like I always find that the first 20 minutes, my brain is just on fire, but that's okay, right? The whole practice is, seeing your thoughts and being okay with the fact that you're thinking and not judging yourself for having thoughts and not judging the thoughts themselves. And just when you realize you're thinking, literally just saying to yourself, maybe something like thinking, like that's fine. and Instead of getting down rabbit hole and and wondering why you can't turn your mind off. Your mind is not, it's not capable. So I find that those first 20 minutes
00:58:14
Speaker
are like my time to really, um, field the thoughts. I'm like, okay, I'm thinking again and I'm thinking again. And then I find that after those 20 minutes, a lot of times, all of a sudden I'm in a stretch. Oh, I didn't have any thoughts like, wow. Okay. Let that thought go to, and then I go into another stretch and then a longer stretch and then a longer stretch. And then what happens is I walk throughout my day. I'm just doing my day.
00:58:42
Speaker
And I realized like I'm driving and I wasn't thinking for like two minutes. That's a long time. And maybe in those two minutes, something just like dropped into my head or maybe later something like I'll just be out of storage unit. And all of a sudden I'll have this crazy download of information that was not for me. Right. And it's because I have been practicing that pause and that ability to basically stop the mind chatter, not stop my mind, but stop the chatter that's so loud all the time. And in those moments, I really, I know that because I was practicing that before I got sober, that is also how I was just walking down the hallway one day and the thought
00:59:32
Speaker
dropped into my head out of nowhere. It was not my thought, the thought that I was addicted to alcohol and had a decision to make right then and there, right? I did not think that to myself. that didn't I wasn't on that level of awareness with myself. I was in complete denial. So I know that that happened because of all the practice that I had already been doing with meditation. And so I just want to say,
00:59:56
Speaker
Practicing meditation is practicing the awakening process, basically. Oh, yeah. it's It's like you read my mind through that whole speech. It it it it absolutely is. And it's baby steps. right If you think of our mind as a muscle, which it is, right we're practicing growing concentration so we can be with what is in the present moment. So we can notice when anger with is arising. We can notice when irritation is arising.
01:00:26
Speaker
We can notice these things and be with them in different way. We can be with different parts of us, of ourselves that are still wounded and are still hurt and bring some kindness and compassion to them. And I think you're totally right. The first 10, 20 minutes, you've got that monkey mind. And even just being able to acknowledge that monkey mind is part of mindfulness and meditation.
01:00:51
Speaker
Yeah. Cause it really does come down to if we want to build our muscles and be all, and you know, have biceps like this, we need to work at it every day. Right. And every day you're first, you're doing that one pound, then you're doing the three pounds, and then eventually you can get up to 10, 15 pounds, or you're like me, you stay at the five pounds and you're happy with them. But it's like any muscle. And that's the same thing with your brain. If you want to grow those neural pathways and have them change and form in different ways.
01:01:20
Speaker
for a healthier way of being with yourself, it comes with practice. Yes, exactly. And that's what I'm saying. It's like practicing that awakening so that you can, you're basically practicing opening yourself up to learning more. Yeah, absolutely. And we have to start from somewhere. So if it's one minute, that is amazing. I totally agree. And that there you go. like There's that self-compassion too, understanding that one minute is better than you've ever done. So just go sit for that one minute until it's not painful anymore. Or maybe it is painful. I don't know, but you know, until it's, until it's normalized for you and your, your nervous system and then add another minute or maybe 30 seconds, just incremental changes here have profound effects. Right.
01:02:13
Speaker
Yeah. And that's, that's a good thing too, because I do have a lot of people tell me I'm not doing it right. Right. I'm not doing it right. And even just noticing I'm not doing it right is doing it right. Right. It's just about noticing what is there with, and you said it perfectly without judgment, without attaching to it. It's simply noticing without adding all of that extra.
01:02:41
Speaker
I think Pema Shodron is the one who says the only way you can meditate incorrectly is by not sitting down. to to include that before too we only The only bad meditation is the one you don't do. Yes. And if you feel like you don't have time to do a meditation, you should probably meditate an hour longer. I haven't heard that one, but that's it. You know what? And that's, if you don't have time to do a meditation, I had, uh, I was working with this nurse once.
01:03:10
Speaker
And every time she had to go from one room to the other to deliver pills, she did a walking meditation. She would slow down and she would breathe just for, even if that was like five, 10, 20 seconds, that was her time to meditate. And she just did that every time she went to a different room. So it can be done anywhere. I totally agree. I'm sorry. I just have to tell you that we just had a night retreat, uh, like a month ago.
01:03:39
Speaker
And I was supposed to be facilitating a cow ceremony in a sound bath on the beach. But this particular day I have never ever seen the air at the beach so still there was no wind and the gnats the sand gnats which are on.
01:03:57
Speaker
You can't, like you cannot submit with bugs that bite and that are making you scratch. I mean, and and thousands of them. And when they find you, they swarm like and in your face too. So I was like getting my crystal balls out and they were in my face so bad. I almost teared up. I almost started crying because I couldn't get away from them. And the bites were just like, Oh,
01:04:21
Speaker
it just drove me insane. So I knew that we were not going to be able to do that. And when everyone showed up, we did a walking meditation and it was better than I could have ever expected. Although we all still got eaten alive, but that's exactly what we did. What you just explained. Yeah, pivot. Yeah, exactly. Um, Sydney, I'm going to wrap it up here. I think that this was ah more than I mean, it was amazing. It was so full of, again, that depth and that weight, that richness that I'm looking for for this podcast. So thank you so much for being here. And I know that your website is not done yet, but do you want to share any um place that people can get in touch with you to work with you? Yeah, absolutely. So my my company name, my business name is called Balanced Wisdom. And I do have a website, like you said, I'm upgrading it.
01:05:18
Speaker
But you can certainly go to balancedwisdom.com and it'll be there. There's a contact page. And like I said, I i do consultations. So if anybody wants just to kind of touch base and and see what's going on. Also too, if you Google Cindy Owen, it usually comes up. I'm in Canada though, so I don't know what the Googling process is and if it would come up in your area.
01:05:45
Speaker
But yeah, that's probably the best way going to ballastwisdom.com. Okay, awesome. And I will link that in the show notes as well for people to find you. And if you guys listening got a ton of value out of today's episode, please, please go to the show's homepage and give us a five star review. And if you want to write a review, that would be amazing. I would so appreciate it. And we'll help other modern day healers find this podcast and receive the same value that you are. Um, more is more. All right. Thank you again. It was a pleasure. Did you know what? It's been such a pleasure of mine. I've learned some, I've, I've, I've learned it's good. Thank you so much for having me.