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EP 28: Inspired by fear: becoming a courageous change leader w/ Kris Jennings
25 Plays30 days ago
What if fear wasn’t the enemy, but your greatest guide? 💫
On this week’s episode of the Modern Day Healer Podcast, Kris Jennings shares how facing fear transformed her life and leadership.
Kris shares her deeply personal journey of navigating fear, from losing her dream job to confronting chronic PTSD. With resilience and authenticity, she reveals how fear became her greatest teacher. Together, Dana and Kris explore how embracing uncertainty can unlock profound growth, both personally and professionally. If you’re seeking the courage to step into your own power, this conversation will feel like a warm invitation to trust your path. Tune in for a dose of wisdom, empowerment, and practical guidance for walking through fear and finding freedom on the other side.
We dive deep into:
✨ The courage to lead through uncertainty and fear
✨ Practical tools for transmuting fear into confidence
✨ How to align your actions with your higher vision
✨ Building resilience in times of massive change
✨ Creating sustainable success without sacrificing well-being
If you’ve ever felt stuck in uncertainty, this conversation will remind you that courage is a choice — one that can lead to unimaginable growth. Press play and step into your power.
Love,
Dana & the Modern Day Healer Team
Connect with Dana HERE and Kris HERE and tell them what you loved most about this episode and what resonated deeply.
📖 Buy Kris Jennings' book Inspired by Fear: Becoming a Courageous Change Leader here.
**If you loved today's episode, remember to give this podcast a 5-star rating! You can quickly leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts by scrolling down on my show page, selecting a star rating, and tapping “Write a review.” This helps other modern-day healers discover the show, and your feedback helps me curate more content you love. Thank you for your support!!
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Modern Day Healer Podcast. I'm your host, Dana Hayes, and I am so excited to share with you the stories, the trials, the tribulations, and most importantly, the triumphs of my own as well as many other successful modern day healers.
00:00:20
Speaker
We've gone all in to pursue our passion, to make an impact in the world by helping humans heal from the past and find true empowerment in their lives today.
What is a Modern Day Healer?
00:00:31
Speaker
So what exactly is a modern day healer, you might ask? A modern day healer is you. She is me and anyone else who feels a calling to help others heal yourself. grow and share their light.
00:00:45
Speaker
You could be a wife, a mother, a teacher, a writer, a speaker, podcast host. You might be a workshop producer, a course creator. You're most likely an entrepreneur and can't shake the desire to make your calling your career because you know how much impact you could make if you went all in and had the opportunity to share your story with the world.
00:01:08
Speaker
That is a modern day
Dana's Roles and Brand
00:01:11
Speaker
healer. I am a podcast host, a co-author of an amazing book about the journey of sobriety, a wife, a mom of two young children, and the creator of the spiritual lifestyle brand, Living in Power.
00:01:23
Speaker
I am Dana and I am a modern day healer. I am so glad you're here. Let's get started.
Introduction to Chris Jennings
00:01:37
Speaker
Welcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of the Modern Day Healer. I'm Dana Hayes, your host. And with me today, i have Chris Jennings, the author of Inspired by Fear, a book about becoming a courageous change leader. And the interesting thing is that Chris comes from book a bit of a different background. Actually, she comes from a very different background with business because she's an expert at guiding leaders of enterprises um who have found themselves suddenly facing large scale change in their organizations. And so what she helps them do
00:02:14
Speaker
is to navigate these high-stakes situations using tools that essentially transmute the fear of this massive change, which, as we all know, ultimately becomes the catalyst for a slew of fear-based behaviors that then lead to failure if gone unchecked.
00:02:33
Speaker
um And she leads them into this inspired, courageous, and success-inducing action instead, right? Transmuting that fear into... Courage and success.
Facing Fear in High-Stakes Situations
00:02:44
Speaker
So, Chris, while you technically speak to a different type of client in your book, I feel that the title of Courageous Change Leader still fits here completely for my audience, the modern day healers listening to this podcast, because Ultimately, they face a lot of the same feelings where this is a high stakes situation, maybe on a smaller scale, not including hundreds or thousands of employees, right? And millions of dollars, um not usually, but instead it affects their families and their personal finances. And depending on the game that they're playing, they could potentially have tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line.
00:03:27
Speaker
So these women basically, just to give you a little idea, they they want to show up and they want to be fully available to all of the opportunities in front of them, especially when they've got real skin in the game.
00:03:39
Speaker
But those feelings of self-doubt, frustration and just downright fear that you talk about in the book, you know, are often, from what I see, the most glaring reasons for staying small. Like continuing to accept a smaller vision for themselves, um maybe possibly one that they could see themselves basically accomplishing on their own.
00:04:03
Speaker
um Not asking for help, just essentially keeping them stuck in a fear-based box of their own making and not taking the next steps that are actually necessary to win this long game that they have chosen to enter.
00:04:16
Speaker
So although you work with a different person in your job, I think you could easily bring a lot of value to this type of change leader that I've just spoken about, because after all, modern day healer, what we are, we are change leaders in our own right. So,
00:04:32
Speaker
um Yeah, I think that this woman has the the modern day healer has chosen the path of spiritual change for herself so that she's able to help others do the same, you know, for themselves. It takes massive courage and continuous emotional evolution and subsequent actions to drive that evolution to become the materialized version of the vision.
00:04:55
Speaker
that they began their journeys with. So thank you so much for being here. And I can't wait to hear your story because I know that it's experiential and we love that here.
00:05:06
Speaker
And so please like take it away, introduce yourself and tell us how this all came to be.
Acknowledging and Acting Despite Fear
00:05:12
Speaker
well Absolutely. and And I think, I mean, one of the first things I did in reaching out to you is like, this isn't really going to make sense, right? Of like who I serve and you and modern day healer people, most people don't think of, you know, corporate leaders as ah necessarily the same audience, but um I wholeheartedly agree with you, which is,
00:05:31
Speaker
um The reality is, is that all of us are facing fear in this modern day world. Right. And um leader is in the context of where wherever you are, whether that's in an organization, in a team, in your own solopreneurship business, um in your family. So all those things to me, all those roles are really just different applications for leadership.
00:05:54
Speaker
When you feel fear, how do you recognize and acknowledge it and then decide you're going to do something instead, you know, or in spite of.
00:06:04
Speaker
um And that's really where i I focus just in terms of like not gaslighting ourselves around the fear, um not into toxic positivity around. I'm not you know feeling this. um I should just buckle in and do it and and dig deep um that that.
00:06:21
Speaker
yeah you know, yin and yang energy. That's a little more yang on the doing side of things, but really getting into the, like, I feel this and something else is more important.
00:06:32
Speaker
um And a lot of the organizations I'm serving, the leader is in a position where, um you know, it's their very survival of their team, right? They've got to make a significant shift because the market's changed or whatever the situation is, they're putting in new technology.
00:06:47
Speaker
um People have to grow exponentially and very quickly. um And the most common question, if they're being honest, is what if I fail, right? What if I fail and all of these people's you know livelihoods are dependent on and me?
00:07:04
Speaker
um And so getting past that really is like the first step in terms of you know finding ah that true authentic voice of a leader who can acknowledge the emotions that are involved in change.
00:07:17
Speaker
um and get into a place of inspiring others because they're doing it anyway. They're they're taking action despite that fear. so Yeah, it's great to be here. Thank you. um Yay. Thanks, Chris.
Personal Experiences with Fear
00:07:30
Speaker
Okay, so you wrote this book off of and correct me if I'm wrong, but off of your own experience with basically transmuting fear into courage.
00:07:41
Speaker
um So can you give me and the listeners a little bit of background on what that looked like? Yeah, there are a couple of stories that are really important to my journey. I think the first was in 2012 when I got laid off from my dream job um and um large multinational, right? Leading a global team, super exciting. Like I thought I'd made it and then getting laid off and finding myself starting a business, starting a consulting business. So 13 years later, i say, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
00:08:13
Speaker
for that gift um because I you know would never have explored things like but you know jumping from company to company and helping different teams as courageously as I have um in terms of finding new adventures in my work.
00:08:29
Speaker
um And then on a more personal, so that 2012 transition and in getting laid off um was my first foray into courage. And then the second big one was um In 2020, at the you know middle of the pandemic, like most people, I was experiencing pervasive anxiety. And it was beyond anything that I had ever experienced in my life, even though I've you know struggled with it struggled with it for more than a decade.
00:08:57
Speaker
um And I said, I'm like, I got to get help and um was diagnosed with chronic PTSD. um And so for me, that was the second big shift of like, okay.
00:09:09
Speaker
I've got to change my relationship with my nervous system and how I support myself um and kind of where work fits into my life, um as well as just a lot of learning a lot of other things about my brain and and my body and things that are unique to me um in terms of healing modalities that are specific to So yeah.
00:09:30
Speaker
so Yeah, that was the second big experience for me um and really going deep on on fear and how I how I experience it, how I feel it in my body, what my brain does. My brain is unique in terms of some of the behavior patterns and loops. And I think a lot of people can relate to that in this, you know, in this environment that we have right now.
00:09:52
Speaker
Yeah, I totally agree. And, you know, something that sticks out to me that you you're talking about is, um you know, courage, having courage as a as a change leader, as somebody that is going through a pandemic.
00:10:07
Speaker
um whatever it is that life is throwing at us. Having this courage is something that Dan Sullivan talks about. And he says that it's something that a lot of people do not want, right?
00:10:19
Speaker
You don't, it's it's one of those things that you have so much respect for other people that are permeating that courage because it's hard because it's so incredibly, it's so, it comes from fear. Like you have to do the thing without knowing what the outcome is going to be in the end.
00:10:39
Speaker
And you do it blindly, like with uncertainty is what I should really be saying here. And so I would love to know what your relationship is when it,
00:10:49
Speaker
to courage, like how, how have you become so courageous that you now teach other people to be courageous? Like, I know you've talked a little bit about the healing modalities, but I would love to know if there's a specific methodology that you take people through, or is there like just a way of thinking that could help possibly the people listening right now As they're sitting there thinking about their own fears and needing to have the courage to step up and really become the person right that that does this that builds the business and you were also talking about, um you know, being an entrepreneur and and the gift that.
00:11:29
Speaker
your anxiety or or actually it's not even the anxiety. It was the gift that being laid off really gave you, um, these perceived, you know, failures or times in life that are so tumultuous and and filled with strife.
00:11:45
Speaker
It gave you the gift of clarity that you either had to, or wanted to start a business. But when you start a business, you are, um, you you either become the person that does the business that you started to begin with, or you continuously stay in these fear-based loops of behavior.
00:12:05
Speaker
And so I would love for you again to speak on on how you found this courage and um and and kind of what you do to overcome that fear. Yeah, I mean, well, definitely the first thing is it's it's a journey, right? Like I and I just coached myself out of this within the last 24 hours, right, of like a mindset of like somewhere is better.
00:12:25
Speaker
Like I'm going to get to a place where I'm never going to feel fear. All right. Well, that's completely unrealistic. And ah I mean, mainly because it's wired into our biology. Right. So when i really think about fear, I think about the nervous system and the nervous system, you know, over our evolutionary history is designed to protect us, is to designed to tell us something in the environment is dangerous. Right.
00:12:50
Speaker
I need you to prepare. Right. So all that chemical, all the chemicals get that get flooded into our body, cortisol in particular for me, which, you know, then gets me into this doing this.
00:13:01
Speaker
Right. And that um masculine energy. Right. The doing this of I got to get this. I edited my language there. I gotta get this done.
00:13:13
Speaker
um and you know what? In corporate America, that serves served me really well, right?
Transition to Entrepreneurship
00:13:20
Speaker
All of that anxiety and like dropping into like lot of doing and getting a lot of work done, i was rewarded. so like the big thing when I got you know laid off and transitioned into being my own boss, it took me several years to realize I was the one that was deciding how um how heavy my foot was on the gas pedal.
00:13:42
Speaker
Right? It was like, okay, I don't have to work like a crazy person. Right? i can like back off a little bit and recognize that I am safe.
00:13:55
Speaker
And um for me, and save started with for me with the financial, like I think that as for most um entrepreneurs, you kind of have those first few years of like where you're just trying to figure out like the cash flow and like ah how, you know, income predictability and all of that. and.
00:14:11
Speaker
It was probably about four year, four year, four year five when I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not worried about that. I'm not, you know, i i can see that what I provide to the world, there is a need for it. And i i stayed busy.
00:14:23
Speaker
That took a lot of pressure off me from ah being able to courageously look at like, what does life look like a little different than maybe what it did when I was a full time employee?
00:14:34
Speaker
And that just continued, has continued to shift over the last, you know, five, 10 years. And now, you 2024, I took the entire year to write the book, right? I created that space to say, like, I literally have the time and the capacity and this is the thing I want do.
00:14:55
Speaker
two um regardless of, you know, income goals and whatever, like I had put myself in a position to do that. And that, you know, to get to that place from a courage of like, do a bucket list thing, right?
00:15:09
Speaker
Stop worrying about the money and stop stop worrying about achieving. Stop worrying about what other people are, you know, wondering like, hey, you've kind of gone quiet. Yeah. What are you doing over there? And literally just, you know, doing writing the book because that's been a dream of mine since I was a kid. courage always comes to me in small shifts. And then, you know, like I think eventually it's like, yeah, the enormity of writing the book hit me really hard when i published of like the fact that i had actually done the thing that I'd always wanted to do. so
00:15:44
Speaker
I think that's the the inspired part of it, right? Of like, when you realize that through these small little actions, you know, day in, day out, um committing to yourself and committing to that, you know, journey that only you know is true for you.
00:15:59
Speaker
um You know, that's then then it's like, yeah, literally the the joy of of birthing my third baby.
00:16:09
Speaker
I love that so much. I love it because what you're talking about is commitment, right? And seeing it through, even though we are all going to be afraid, period, point blank. And um actually, i'm going to take it back a little bit and talk about something that really like that you just touched upon. And it's, you know, the the timeline, the timelines that people give themselves to become profitable in a business is unbelievable. And what's even more unbelievable is the timeline that they give themselves without help to start a profitable business.
00:16:47
Speaker
And I really believe, especially right now, as I'm going through the motions of hiring this team, um and I've done this little by little over the past couple of years anyway, but I i really firmly believe that the confidence in your in your mission and in what you're here to do and the message that you're here to give the world is ultimately what's going to lead to taking those courageous actions forward to invest in yourself further and invest in your vision further. And to put that, you know, there's a difference between unnecessary pressure, like you were just talking about and healthy pressure.
00:17:31
Speaker
Right. And so can you speak a little bit to the differences and and what you've learned? Yeah, well, you're speaking my language because like and when I talk about like the big shift in my life between you know being a corporate you know FTE and being my own boss, it's time freedom.
00:17:49
Speaker
And like, for me, that is my North Star, right? Of like, it's how I measure everything, everything, right? Of like, how and that's that's the book, right? That's the joy of taking a year and and how much time freedom I've given myself in my life.
00:18:05
Speaker
um And I, you know, i'm I'm a little older than you, i you know, a little closer to the, you know, spike in the ball in the end zone if there is such a thing. um But the reality is, is like time freedom to me is now ah ah if I was more, i don't want to use scarcity minded, but if I was protective of like doing things by myself rather than involving others along the way or hiring others, at i mean, I'm I have always brought other people along for specific roles, but like now now I'm really thinking like in my next this next opportunity that I have, without going into a lot of detail, it's like, oh no, I'm going to hire that. I've like got three roles and three people picked out.
00:18:49
Speaker
And the whole reason is because it's going to make it easier for me. It's going to may allow me to maintain balance in my continuing my healing investments and myself.
00:19:01
Speaker
um And because I like them, because they're human beings who are at sea they see the world the same way. And it's like a little, I don't know, I don't know how to a pot of like, of like happiness and joy that like, despite doing the hard thing, like we can still um find a lot of, you know, I i build friendships in my work. It's very unusual.
00:19:24
Speaker
But when you're alongside, you know, organizational leader in a team for 12 to 18 months is my common, you know, time horizon with a particular team.
Collaboration and Vision Expansion
00:19:33
Speaker
And ah so these are people who are friends, right? They're on my my and Christmas card list. And You know, it's blurring all the things that I shouldn't do, but um that's what it becomes, I think, when you have created the kind of work environment and work, you know, product where you're doing more than just solving a problem. You're helping a person grow um during during what you're doing, whatever it is. So I know you can relate to that. Yeah. I had chills the whole time you're talking because by life, like this is all I talk about.
00:20:08
Speaker
And the freedom of time being the, the most valuable thing to visionary entrepreneurs. I mean, I think it's probably maybe the, um I don't know that all entrepreneurs see it the same way. i think that some are truly just driven by money, but visionary entrepreneurs, spiritual entrepreneurs, the people that I talk to that I'm in constant communication with, that's not what they value.
00:20:34
Speaker
Money is something that they want enough of that they don't have to think about it anymore so that they're able to lean into that full capacity that you're talking about and have that freedom of time. time to grow and to expand. And like you're talking about with, you know, other minds coming in, it's less about, um, it is about doing more. Yes. And, and more effectively, right.
00:21:00
Speaker
Um, not just doing all the things, but doing the right things with the right people, but it's also about allowing other people and their visions to come in and expand yours.
00:21:12
Speaker
right, and working together as a collaborative, co-creative effort towards this a similar mission, which when you involve other people and their minds and their zones of genius, it becomes something, and we all know it's bigger than ourselves, right, but it really does materialize as that when we allow that to happen.
00:21:33
Speaker
And again, though, I do feel, though, that ah many people are missing that courage because there's maybe a lack of, um, there's a lack of clarity. There's a lack of, um, understanding of what they're really trying to do. And then it becomes this breakdown in communication between themselves and their potential clients. And, and so I really see that happening a lot as well, which is a case for a whole other podcast, but, um,
00:22:03
Speaker
But when you're talking about being committed to yourself and taking those daily actions, what, what does that look like for you?
00:22:16
Speaker
Well, that's a whole separate team of people. i mean, I talk about my work people, but then I'm like, Oh yeah. Like, and the acknowledgements in my book would, you know, would would highlight that as well of like, what does my day look like in terms of how do I support myself? I mean,
00:22:33
Speaker
I get up and I am absolutely one of the, I haven't picked up my phone yet, right? It is 1030. I have not touched my my phone yet this morning. I mean, that's that's a reality for me, right? Is I choose to start my day without the fear of the noise that is in, unfortunately, our our feeds.
00:22:52
Speaker
um And um i like morning. That's when I write. That's when I do all my big thinking. And so I usually give myself, I kind of think of my peak flow time is like from like 5, 6 a.m. until about 10 a.m.
00:23:05
Speaker
And so there's a slowness to my mornings of, um you know, coffee and journaling. um i have ah a particular guide right now that I'm working through just in terms of like some ideation around how do I show up as
Daily Routines for Wellness
00:23:20
Speaker
a creator? How do I more honor more of my artist um and then some other things in terms of my my rituals and routines i have a great therapist right now i'm working in internal family systems which has also been wonderful i've worked with emdr and somatic experiencing practitioners as well i have an acupuncturist i have a massage therapist that i do a three-hour massage
00:23:46
Speaker
Because for PTSD, the energy for me is like I have some injuries in my body as a result of the, you know, like the ickies, you know, and I don't have to say it, but like being stuck in my body for more than a decade um and a chiropractor. um So all those things and then swimming for me. So my my joy and my passion in addition to writing is I am a swimmer. And so i swim at least three times a week more when in Minnesota, when we can get outside in the summer, i swim, you know, like five days a week.
00:24:16
Speaker
um the mayor of swim town as the local pool calls me because they ah orchestrate everybody. ah but um those are some of the things that I do, um you know, movement and mindfulness and, um you know, mixing a lot of other things, mala bead meditations and mantra repetition in terms of like shifting some of my thinking when I get into my ruminating loops.
00:24:41
Speaker
um And honoring the thing that I think I'm working on most right now is just honoring those emotions that are coming up because, um you know, for a long time I was frozen where there was really like no emotion. and heck, I was rewarded for that in corporate America.
00:24:58
Speaker
I was rewarded for not, you know, not ever breaking my poker face. So um to be able to come out of that and to then to recognize like, nope, right now I'm feeling something, you know, I'm very, i have a lot of, I have great body and awareness. So I'm like, I noticed stuff in my body first.
00:25:16
Speaker
And then the same way, like with my teams and my people, like I noticed energetically right away, like, yep, this person's got some stuff going on or We're an energetic match.
00:25:27
Speaker
Yeah, that's kind of how I think about all the humans in my world of like, yeah, how do i how do i relate with them energetically and and feeling it somatically. and Okay, I love that every single person doesn't matter the background on this podcast.
00:25:41
Speaker
Yeah. it doesn't like the language might be different, but the sentiment is always the same. It's always that core foundational energetic piece, right? I don't care how you explain this, but it's just, it always comes back to having that foundation of true wellness that can only be experienced by, um by really connecting with that source energy and then being able to,
00:26:09
Speaker
I don't know, ah see it in other people and in every interaction that you have and every creation, every idea, understanding what's aligned with you, what's not aligned with you.
00:26:20
Speaker
And so it brings me back to like that whole idea of you basically doing everything that you are aligned with, that you feel so passionate about. and taking that space to do those things. And i think the day or the week that you just described is like the dream of a lot of listeners, right? They're like, yumy it's very yummy. I mean, but it's hard work. It was really, really, and it still is really hard work to heal.
00:26:49
Speaker
You know, it's, I don't want to discount the fact that it's like, yeah, there's days that are not great. And there's days that are, um over the last 10-15 years, right, that have been just, yeah, exhausting. Doing the work is an investment and it is hard and there's a reason why not everybody does it. But, you know, on the other side of it absolutely, life is a lot more, can feel more of of what, you know, what is joyful in life. the ups The ups, my window of tolerance of the ups and the downs has expanded. Yes.
00:27:22
Speaker
yes I love that. That's the capacity thing, right? The expansion. And I think that when, if somebody's listening to all of those things and going, oh my God, like that's the exact life I want.
Financial Stability and Entrepreneurship
00:27:33
Speaker
The pathway to it, especially in entrepreneurship and correct me if I'm wrong, but you do have to create a, um, a level of income, which would you allow you to have that freedom of time in your life. And then, but but what, uh,
00:27:52
Speaker
what you have to be committed to, and this is my experience, if we you have to be committed to, if you value your freedom of time is you have to be committed to valuing your freedom of time in the rest of your life as well and not just in your business. So what are you doing with the rest of your day? Because you talked about being committed to yourself, right? And to your vision.
00:28:15
Speaker
And so if you do desire this, this freedom of time in everything and you want to be able to charge, you know, amazing prices for the amazing value that you're you're bringing to the world, then I think it's safe to say that in order to create that, the rest of your life has to also be built around the same ethos of that freedom and value, valuing your time.
00:28:41
Speaker
So not just like creating freedom of time, but creating that value of time as well in the rest of everything that we do, because that ultimately is what gives us that ability to flow in our business and bring the value and also then to create things that we feel are worthy of asking for.
00:29:02
Speaker
those higher price points that give us the freedom of time. is that Is that your experience? where I mean, there's a well there's a couple of things I want to like unpack with you a little bit of like time freedom for me. And one of the things that i notice is um more out like i I do probably three to five conversations a week with people who have gotten laid off, who are mid-career, who are thinking about consulting.
00:29:26
Speaker
And, um so that's kind of given a, been a form of feedback for me and like how I approach life, how I approach my business. Uh, the reality is, is I have a high risk tolerance.
00:29:38
Speaker
Right. And so, um, not everybody is, is, you know, like, I don't know, nuts, right. as I am just in terms of like, and partly because I started early, I was early in the game, right? It was 2012.
00:29:54
Speaker
um And am, I have an expertise that is, as we all know, is that there's, you know, no shortage of change in the world and no shortage of change in big companies. So I, I'm in a niche space that, um you know, it's been relatively easy from a business perspective to continue to just, you know,
00:30:13
Speaker
grow. And, and also because whenever I'm, I have the kind of personality, I'm Pippi, a combination of Pippi Longstocking and Curious George. So um both the red hair and the just insatiable curiosity and mischievousness, rebelliousness, like the reality is, is like every time a project comes along and they're like, oh, this is not going this is an impossible project. It's not even doable. Like we can't even hit this timeline and there's no way everyone's going to get on board with this. It's like, I'm like,
00:30:43
Speaker
bring it on. Like, love that. Right. I thrive in that. I thrive in the, um, in my therapist and I have a, uh, uh, a part for her scout. She's runs ahead to see whatever, you know, everything that's going to happen. And, and like, because my PTSD has kind of helped me be really good at my job.
00:31:05
Speaker
um In the sense of being able to like anticipate the things that are going to be gotchas around around people during change, um big technology change. So, ah you know, i think the risk taking is is part of it.
00:31:20
Speaker
um And the other part of it is, yeah, is like you so you were saying that investment in myself of. I'm curious enough to like, okay, I've made it this efficient. Now what can make it better? Right. Of that mindset of like, you know, could could I find even more expansion and joy if i deliver this in a different way, if I, you know, change delivery modality so that there was more, you know, self-directed aspects so that they're doing what I need them to do, but I don't need, I don't need to babysit them. Right. yeah.
00:31:55
Speaker
um so So those are some of the things just in terms of like my my mind and how I think about things. And um I think that are perhaps different than than many people who jump into entrepreneurship and um that bridge between the structure of when everyone's when you're you have a job and you're being told what to do.
00:32:15
Speaker
Right. And um the greenfield space of like anything is possible when you're an entrepreneur. Like, I think there's like there's two different personalities. Right. And I definitely thrive in the in the latter, in the greenfield space where it's.
00:32:33
Speaker
you know, imagine anything that's possible and go figure out how to do it and persist. um So I'm a very persistent, that ah my my my yeah my parents would tell you that my persistence, right, i do do I just absolutely will not give up if I have my mindset on something. So some of those personality traits, I think, support my my business and entrepreneuring um quite well. Yeah.
00:33:00
Speaker
I can see that. Yeah.
Managing Overwhelm and Focus
00:33:01
Speaker
My dog, my dog, my husband tells me all the time. He's like, you are like a dog with a bone. but they You do not give up. And I think that's a trait that actually a lot of the listeners have, but I, I like what you just said about,
00:33:15
Speaker
the difference between having that structure in a corporate job um and being told what to do, having a manual, right? And then having that that, like you said, greenfield space where anything's possible.
00:33:27
Speaker
I think that's where so many people get caught up. And what I loved about something you said just a minute ago was that the bigger and the harder that the issue is or how the the bigger the vision is, right?
00:33:40
Speaker
It's almost like it's easier for you to go in there and accomplish the thing because it's it's impossible for everybody else. It's impossible for everybody else and the qualities that make you uniquely you work to your benefit to actually get it done and accomplish it. And I think...
00:33:59
Speaker
A lot of people that are listening to this um have the issue where they go into that big visionary space where anything's possible and get completely overwhelmed. And then they start trying to do all of the things, get completely overwhelmed and then also befogged by all of all of the things, all of the possibilities. Right.
00:34:19
Speaker
And then they actually let that be the the thing that creates failure for them and creates more fear. Yeah. Well, I mean, fear and and I mean, uncertainty, right, is a form of fear.
00:34:32
Speaker
Right. And so I'll go a little bit geeky on like, how do I actually work with organizations or any individuals in facing um the uncertainty that comes with big change? And one of the analogies I use is chalk the guardrails. So I don't know if you're a football fan, but it's like. Okay, the end, the sidelines, right?
00:34:51
Speaker
Really what you're doing is you're establishing what's in bounds, right? And so it's both ruling out things. It is not this.
00:35:02
Speaker
I know it's not this. And then it's also, decide you know, determining in bounds. bit by bit, it is this, right? So it's the known and the unknown, right? And the the like the the guardrails get a little tighter, a little more clear, the more experimenting you do.
00:35:19
Speaker
And the more you're open to that, like just observing, right? Without willing it to be so. um Because I think that's another you know um mental trap a lot of people fall into and hustle culture too, of like, I got to make this work.
00:35:34
Speaker
I got to make it work in this timeframe. Back to an earlier point you made of, right, of like, i've I i'll often catch myself doing that and remind myself and my clients, we have all the time that we need to a certain degree, right? Like, I mean, there are there to are time constraints, but, ah you know, pulling it back to like within the time that we have, what what do we what can we rule out, you know? and So removing uncertainty then often gives you a more clear path to like to figuring out, you know, dialing, continuing to dial in on your um experiments, if you will. And um I think finding an ideal client client profile, right, when you first start a business, right? It's like...
00:36:17
Speaker
You have an idea, but it's only through tests and experiments and and feedback from the market that you really, truly understand. Like, yep, I'm onto something and this feels aligned and right for me. So back to that that energetic, you know, yes.
Small Changes in Business Success
00:36:31
Speaker
That energetic yes for me, it comes very easily. I know it's not always, you know, that's not always true for people. But um yeah, that's how I usually work with a client is, know,
00:36:42
Speaker
get them to start, you know, what is known and what is unknown and like what is not going to happen. Um, because it kind of gives you a little more, little more clarity, a little less uncertainty, and you just keep documenting that and working your way through it.
00:36:57
Speaker
And yeah, little little bit by bit, small bits, small change, everything gets easier when you break it down into pieces and making small shifts. So yeah,
00:37:08
Speaker
I think this is really good for people to hear, especially from somebody like you who works with these enormous corporations and businesses. people who honestly have, I mean, these are some of the highest stakes that you can imagine.
00:37:20
Speaker
Right. And so the fear is just exponentially larger than it could be for just one person. It's, it's so many people that are, that are being affected or potentially affected. So, um, I have a question for you when it comes to, ah basically giving yourself parameters and,
00:37:42
Speaker
would you say chalking the fuck the guardrails? ah sorry so i knew how I think of it, at yeah, chalking the guardrails. It's like the boundaries. You're you're you're figuring out, oh, what the kid's in the sandbox, right?
00:37:56
Speaker
yes good It's putting the um you know the the fence around the the sandbox to say, yep, playing in this space, right? yeah And then getting it it keeps getting smaller and smaller the more you determine.
00:38:08
Speaker
I should know these things. I should know that metaphor just because my husband is a serious football fan. um I won't go into that. But
Avoiding the Time for Money Trap
00:38:16
Speaker
so, okay. So my question is, if if you want those parameters to get smaller, here this is something that i talk about a lot and I want to i want your take on it.
00:38:25
Speaker
because you have already mentioned these kind of like these big, hairy, audacious goals, right? Where people come to you and they're like, this is crazy. This is impossible. yeah i like to think of what we're doing, especially as spiritual entrepreneurs, the ones that are are coming out here to be healers, mentors, guides, um,
00:38:46
Speaker
Often they come in with this perception of their own business where first of there's like conflicting ideas, right? So there's this idea that maybe they can't fully articulate, but what they're coming for is that freedom of time for sure.
00:39:03
Speaker
And yet they get stuck in, a complete time for money trap because they're doing the sessions, right? They're doing one-off sessions all day long. They've just created a new job for their themselves and they have more bosses than they've ever had in their lives coming out of corporate America whatever job they had.
00:39:21
Speaker
Okay. So what I see happening is due to fear, and this is obviously, I mean, this is always the crux of the issue. If if they had, if they were able to, I don't want say overcome, because I believe also, you've said this, but fear is always there. it's It's a matter of learning how to deal with it and how to handle it so that it doesn't drive the next behaviors, which then drive the results that you get in your life, right?
00:39:51
Speaker
And so if they could basically handle those fears, then they wouldn't have this issue in the first place where they're getting stuck in that time for money trap because they would ultimately know or they would develop some way of having the value that's needed in order to um price higher and to have packages or offers that give them that freedom of time. Okay.
00:40:15
Speaker
That being said, I see that people keep the vision and the goals that they have so possible, so incredibly small, meaning it's something that they believe that ultimately they could probably figure out and do on their own. And then they spend all of their time doing and trying to figure out how instead of instead of actually making it happen.
00:40:45
Speaker
And the reason for that is because the goal is too small. Because I think that when you have a vision that is so exponentially larger than the one that you could possibly just figure out on your own, it puts you in this place where there are literally not any, there's not as many paths to this goal. You cannot do what you've been doing and get to that place. And so it does give you more parameters. It actually takes away so much of the excess that that minutia that's been holding you down and weighing you down.
00:41:18
Speaker
What do you think about that? Well, I have a couple of things that I do. So I am. Yeah, that big, hairy, audacious
Expanding Vision with Dreamscaping
00:41:24
Speaker
goal. Like I am one of those like, and you know, usually it's a client situation, but I would say that it's also been true in my life. Right. Of like get bored easily. And so it's like a next the next opportunity or a next goal.
00:41:38
Speaker
um Two things. So I have a um i have a woman who does ah dreamscaping, right? So she does like guided meditations for me. And I do that at least once a year in experience. And like, that's how my ah book launch party manifested.
00:41:56
Speaker
i mean, I literally, and she reminded me when i when I did the party, she's like, Chris, that's the exact vision that you had. Like I saw all of it. um And so I feel like there are some things where it's like you got to get out of your head.
00:42:09
Speaker
Right. And you got to get into some of those, you know, however you want to, you know, touching other parts of your your essence, you know, your emotional and your spiritual essence. um So that is one that I do of like that helps me kind of break out of, say,
00:42:27
Speaker
um you know, the mental model of time for money um and just setting small goals. The second is like, I did a vision board exercise and um that's, you know, pretty generic, but like, I'm i'm looking over at it because it's sitting on my floor in my office and um ah the woman who led it did a feng shui for us, right?
00:42:47
Speaker
Like, how odd is that, that we i have my vision board and it's feng shui and I'm like, okay, well, and we did numerology. So I know where I'm, where I am, like I'm in a year four, right? I know that I'm in like the heart of the essence of like doing the work that I'm not actually having, you know, like I haven't closed a chapter. So that tells me like based on where I am, like, wow, this is going to get even bigger.
00:43:11
Speaker
Right. And then using my vision board to kind of imagine and the experiences that I'm going to have throughout this year and then slowly like, dreaming into them um and making them happen. a a couple of big trips planned, a couple of like some one that I like absolutely couldn't explain at all in my career section that's around food. And then last week, you know, in a networking event, I was like, oh, I'm so totally clear on what this is. And it's about my next book.
00:43:37
Speaker
And so like literally, you know what I'm, I'm probably meandering, but it's like creating, finding other ways to get outside of like the thinking about the business and more into, you know, what can I dream into what's, what's possible.
Cultural Norms and Community Support
00:43:52
Speaker
And the second really big point I would have on this is like, You know, I think people get stuck um because we're in a culture that really emphasizes hustle and time for money.
00:44:04
Speaker
And um so if you're not surrounding yourself, if you're not in a community of entrepreneurs who think this way, right, you're you're immediately it's like quicksand that's you know pulling you back into it. You know, and that's true in every the only clients that I decline is where the culture is so warped.
00:44:22
Speaker
um that it's that whatever the individual project is, I'm not going to be able to fix it because culture eats strategy for lunch. And so it's literally like in an organization, if you are surrounded in a negative culture and it's like toxic, it doesn't matter. Like I'm not going to be able to undo um the decades that have gone into building that. And I think that's true for entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs.
00:44:43
Speaker
just what we see and consume. Thus back to some of my personal habits around, you know, like where you won't find me, you won't find a big presence from me on Instagram or on, you know, in fact, it's my accounts private. And, um you know, I'm ah once a week on LinkedIn, I'm trying to, I'm practicing and playing there. But for the most part, otherwise, my my presence is really pretty targeted.
00:45:08
Speaker
um in terms of how I engage with some of the dominant culture because it takes me away from my vision. so Exactly. oh i love everything you just said.
Aligning with True Passions
00:45:19
Speaker
It's so good because that's exactly what we're here to do is to get out of our heads, get into our hearts, get into what would actually make us so excited to go after because that motivation, that momentum, that buildup, that that sustainability has to be there, especially as entrepreneurs, because it is so easy to just start falling off and and letting that fear again, that that theme of fear build back up because you start blaming it on outside circumstances or yourself or your incapabilities. And it's like, no, maybe you just don't have something that is worth you putting your all into.
00:45:57
Speaker
Yeah. and um And on that note, I mean, one other diagnostic I have for myself is so the victim villain hero triad. I don't know if you've brought that up on past podcasts, but it's, you know, it's so common in my um corporate clients.
00:46:13
Speaker
Right. And but yet I catch, you know, my children. Yeah. My boy is, you know, or I'm like, you're not the, you're not the victim here. Right. You're the hero. Right. And so reminding them, right. Of like, okay, it's, it, if it's feels like it's being done to me, right. Then it's an opportunity for me to shift and say, i it's being done by me and then through me.
00:46:36
Speaker
Right. And that when you reach that through me level of where, you know, I believe that I have all these experiences and and I'm put here like specifically, right, with my personal history and um the the challenges that I've had with fear and what I do for a living. Like that is absolutely amazing.
00:46:56
Speaker
a divine you know intervention or a divine purpose. And, you know, it I've struggled with it from time to time to kind of like see sometimes the goodness of like, do I really want to work for these big,
Divine Purpose and Leadership
00:47:09
Speaker
big companies? Like, am I really? And then I remember that it's human beings. in the And then and one of my energy healers actually said, there's nowhere else in the world that needs it more.
00:47:19
Speaker
you know and And the reality of like, I do bring a very different, um I don't know, energy and and and approach to what I do for a living now that I've done my own healing.
00:47:31
Speaker
Hmm, And I love it because it's, it goes back to the modern day healer aspect. um I really believe that business is the path, like it's one of the main paths of healing this entire planet.
00:47:44
Speaker
And you're doing your work and we're doing our work. And I mean, there's no difference, really. It's just who we're working with might might change. But I love the last thing you just said, and I'll i'll kind of wrap it up here.
00:47:56
Speaker
Because I genuinely believe everything that you just said is what allows somebody to have the confidence and to have the courage, right, that we're talking about that that is necessary in order to go after these big, hairy, audacious goals that ultimately give us the parameters and the boundaries needed.
00:48:16
Speaker
to be less uncertain and really kind of fly in in the face of faith. um And i believe what that is, i believe that what gives us that courage is the experience with true healing that allows us to have the perspective shift.
00:48:36
Speaker
And we're able to speak from that place and articulate from that place. And that's what I was actually talking about in the very beginning of um when we first got on here. And I was telling you that I'm i'm creating something called um this the SoulPrint activation call.
00:48:52
Speaker
And that's what it's all about. It's literally about understanding who you are at the core And it's really a way of thinking. It's just a, it's a change in perspective. It's a shift in perspective from one of mine to one of something higher. And it doesn't matter how we explain it.
00:49:10
Speaker
But when you have that true experience with it, you then can articulate things and see things and explain things to other people, even your kids in a different way than other people can, because you have true genuine experience with it. And when you do, you're also able to have full confidence in and conviction and clarity in the direction that you're taking your life and your business because it's a part of your life um because you you have that and nobody can take it away from you and that's the value like that is the value and so when we have that you can literally do anything and I genuinely believe that that's basically the anecdote like that's that is the medicine for the fear
00:49:54
Speaker
I think that's magical and beautiful. And yeah, little, little by little, right. It's fear is not going to go away. Right. It's just part of, it's part of our biology, right. It's, it's who we are as human beings. Like we're made that way to that. Anxiety is a signal to help you prepare. Uncertainty is ah ah a way for you to tune into your values, to know what do I really want to go after what's within my guardrails and,
00:50:22
Speaker
um Yeah, little by little, you know, step by step. That's how courage happens. So, yeah, this has been such an amazing conversation with such a different and beautiful human being. i mean, really, it's such a breath of fresh air. it is to have a ah completely different perspective and to see yet again, we are all the same and and doing something very similar. So thank you so much for being here. And Chris, I want to ask you if you have anything that you want to share with the listeners, um if you want to share your book, if you want to tell them how they can access that or get in touch with you, if that's something that you want, um please. Yeah. Well, I would say if my story, my personal story has resonated with you in any way, or you're an entrepreneur and you're, you know, maybe a little bit behind me on the journey and you have questions,
00:51:09
Speaker
100% all kind humans are welcome in my ecosphere, right? That's what I say. Like, that's who I call in of like, I have a very, very, very small email list. And I keep it that way intentionally because I'm I think of it as my pack.
00:51:23
Speaker
um And so please either reach out to me on Instagram, Chris Jennings, or that's probably the best way, right of ah and via my website to chrisjennings.com.
00:51:36
Speaker
um You can find a contact information there as well as getting on my email list and, you know, being amongst other kinds humans. So who focus on change. So in the context of change, all I go, if you want to hear more of like this stuff, that's, that's what I talk about every week. So thank you.
00:51:53
Speaker
It's been magical. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I will link all of, well, I'll link your Instagram and your website into the show. I find you. Thank you again. This was amazing.
00:52:05
Speaker
Thank you.