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From Meta to Millionaire: How Brooke Shelton is Redefining Success for CEOs
72 Plays1 month ago
Are hashtags really dead? No better person to ask how to grow on Instagram than today's guest Brooke Shelton, who helped write Meta's advertising policies. Tune in as Brooke busts more than a few popular Instagram myths - and learn why she left behind a career at one of the world's tech giants to become an entrepreneur.
We dive into authentic social media strategies that work, we explore how AI is revolutionizing digital marketing, plus, Brooke explains what it means to be an "Out of Office CEO."
And because we always want to pull back the curtain for you, Brooke reveals the most surprising challenges she’s faced as a business owner and the practices from her corporate days that now fuel her success.
Highlights:
- Brooke’s journey from Meta to entrepreneurship: what sparked the change?
- The power of authentic social media strategies—and what doesn’t work.
- Instagram myths: Are they true or false?
- AI’s impact on marketing and Brooke’s favorite automation tools.
- Building a 7-figure business without sacrificing work-life balance.
Listen now to uncover how Brooke is leading a new wave of "Out of Office CEOs" and learn what’s next for Catalyst Collective!
Connect with Tiffany:
Tiffany's Instagram
Tiffany's Website
Connect with Brooke:
Brooke's Instagram
Brooke's Website
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Transcript
Introduction to 'This or More' Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to This or More, a wild entrepreneurial podcast adventure for bold and brave creatives like you. I'm Tiffany Napper, your host, holistic business coach, corporate music industry dropout, a seasoned five-time multi-six figure entrepreneur, yoga instructor, and your go-to gal for heart-to-heart coffee chats.
00:00:21
Speaker
On this show, we're not just here to share stories. We're here to ignite a fire within you and make you realize that the reality you envision is just the tip of the iceberg. You're wildly capable of achieving that reality and so much more. So my friends, grab your cup of inspiration, settle in, and let's dive into another inspiring episode of This or More.
00:00:44
Speaker
Hi, friends.
Meet Brooke Shelton
00:00:45
Speaker
I'm so excited to be joined by Brooke Shelton, a Texas-born New York City-based entrepreneur and seven-figure digital business coach with a passion for helping women bail build freedom-based businesses, which we love around here, with a background in behavioral economics from Duke and an impressive resume that includes writing metas, ad policies, and even helping meta with their VC incubator program. She knows what it takes to turn big ideas into big results. And as the founder of Catalyst Collective, she's now empowering women to start and scale their businesses through, you guessed it, social media strategies. Welcome to the show.
00:01:20
Speaker
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here and quite the intro. So thanks, Tiffany. I love that. You're welcome. I mean, I, you know, as soon as, as you popped on my radar and I, you know, of course, and I've visited the meta offices long ago in New York, but I'm sure you get asked this a lot. Like, you know, obviously it's impressive what you, the career, you know, the corporate career you had. So what does everyone always ask you? What was it like working at meta? Like, what's the question that you get asked a lot?
From Meta to Entrepreneurship
00:01:48
Speaker
Cause I'm sure it comes up a lot when you meet people.
00:01:50
Speaker
That's yes, I would admit, yes, a lot of people do in some way, shape or form. And the flavor always changes a little bit. I get everything from tell me your favorite micro kitchen food, because I think there's some crazy rumor out there. And then in more in more seriousness, it is what is the transition to have been in the weeds to have been understanding and helping architect even unknowingly a startup to an increasingly mature business and to be privy to the incredibly and frankly increasingly difficult decisions that Zuckerberg and Cheryl and everyone went through. And to see, I don't think to be honest, I and how I answer them is I didn't understand the potency of or the impact of those decisions at the time until far after I left.
00:02:43
Speaker
and had to in some small way translate them translate them into my own business. Yeah. and I've actually heard that before. I have a few other friends who were early, early on borders with meta and Instagram. And I've heard that from them as well, that there was a season where no one really quite knew how impactful the work they were doing was going to have, um, in the long run. So, um, fascinating stuff.
Catalyst Collective: A Vision for Women Entrepreneurs
00:03:08
Speaker
Uh, when did you decide to cross over to the entrepreneurial side and start your own business?
00:03:14
Speaker
Oof, that's more of a loaded question than you might think, and I'm kidding, only because it's, and I'm sure hopefully in some way this clicks with a lot of folks in your audience too, is there how I observed it is there's this cumulative pain. And I use the word pain very intentionally because I firmly believe, at least in my own story, there was never
00:03:39
Speaker
a transformative inflection point. It was slow and slow and slow and bit by bit until all at once it came crashing down. And what's interesting is because I loved my team so much, I loved my manager so much, I still do. I loved the work I was a part of, my client base, everything, my ecosystem that I was building and that I was a part of was so wonderful.
00:04:03
Speaker
But to be quite frank, I call it golden handcuffs because there weren't push factors. There were only pull factors. And so the pain of sorts was really for years. If I'm really being candid, if it was for years. And I never really was able to articulate it to myself, much less to anyone else to help shepherd me to action. And so being able to distill that for myself,
00:04:29
Speaker
That has been frankly part of my manifesto and part of my rallying cry to aspiring or existing female entrepreneurs or those who are right at that cusp of, okay, am I going to take this leap? That is the whole premise of catalyst is that incubator to get in. So to answer your question, it was.
00:04:47
Speaker
Some time around last year where I started thinking, I need to start putting more rigor into action if I'm going to take this seriously. I'm getting sick of my own whining here. Yep. That's always at the moment. I need to do something about it or not, right? You can either stop or go. and That fork in the road, that inflection point.
00:05:08
Speaker
It started small, but when I was building or helping build, I should say, the incubator at Meta, I thought, this is where I'm best positioned to play. This is what absolutely ignites me and where I think there is incremental impact that is so far exceeds what I was hired to do to take the behemoths, the fortune 500, I can't say the specific names, but you know, $200 billion dollar companies from stage 99 to 100. I'd much rather be zero to one. And so that's why I thought there has to be this long tail of
00:05:45
Speaker
entrepreneurs out there that I think I'm well positioned to help or others alongside me, we have to at least we owe it to ourselves and we owe it to them that long tail to at least try. Yeah.
Challenges in Leaving Corporate Jobs
00:05:57
Speaker
Yeah. And I just have to go back to what you initially said about the inflection point and the pain, because I think, and for anyone listening, if you know my story already, you've heard me talk about this quite a bit, but I also was in the corporate world for 10 years and I was at Yamaha and I feel, I relate so much to what you're saying. I loved what I was getting to do. And people always ask me, you left, it like you were interviewing Elton John, and you were flying around the world. And I'm like,
00:06:19
Speaker
And I had no work life balance. I was on the road all the time. I was really eating, breathing, sleeping my job because I loved it so much. Right. So it was definitely that golden handcuff scenario. And it was for me the same. It was like all, I don't remember the steady build. I just remember waking up one day and going, this is not it.
00:06:41
Speaker
Right. And so I think you do have to get to that point where the pain, you know, ah the inflection point happens. And so always tell people if you're feeling that right now, don't shy away from it. It's not a bad thing. It's a good thing. We have to get to the point where the pain is so uncomfortable that we're willing to do something different in order for us to actually do something different. Exactly. And I thank you for sharing that too, because it's nice to see these I should say it's reassuring to see these other archetypes of, oh, I'm actually not the only one because this is all still fresh for me as well. And I'm sure for all of us. And so the more that we can make this a new narrative of, hey, listen to it and not stigmatize it, I think the more we can see that the pain of inaction
00:07:22
Speaker
will outweigh the pain of action, at least try. I love that. I love that. Okay, so you crossed over about a year ago. You decided, okay, I'm going to do this. I'm going to help the smaller guy, so to speak. Did you know immediately, was that your first business idea? I mean, it's kind of obvious, but I'm going to ask. Did you know immediately what you
Evolving Business Ideas and Social Media Strategy
00:07:45
Speaker
were going to do? Did you know, okay, I'm going to teach people how to use social media?
00:07:48
Speaker
God, actually, no, and I'm so happy you asked that. So no. And so a little bit more about the timeline too. I started thinking about it. I actually left Meta in May of this year, or I guess very late April, like one of the last days of April. So it's only been a few months now. And then I founded Catalyst in June. So the the thoughts were kind of percolating and percolating and holidays and everything. And I started playing around. But no, actually, that's the funny part is no, I've always been mercilessly teased by friends and family and coworkers for being obsessed with startups and private equity and venture capital. And even when you know those memes where it says, no one, and then it's like, your answer that was me in every room. It's like, guys, did you know this fun fact about this new startup? They're like, Brooke, that wasn't part of the meeting. Please leave. It's like, no, we're talking about Instagram. And I think I had to, alongside, I call it people on my bus, like my my life board of advisors that are helping me drive my bus, alongside them and their guidance, they helped me crystallize
00:08:51
Speaker
my passion for that in conjunction with my right to win, which is social media, at least right now, that could be a very important cocktail to actually start making a difference. And then you can always land and expand. So I don't have to be, or probably will
Family Support in Entrepreneurial Journey
00:09:08
Speaker
be beholden to Instagram only for now, but it would be remiss for me not to help in ads and everything that I was trained on, at least at the beginning.
00:09:16
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, now I have to ask an off question. sir who What type of people are in your bus? Oh, I love that. My husband is the driver at times when I need to be like, nope, I'm out. you know um he is I call him the unpaid intern of my catalyst business because he's our acting CFO. He does everything behind the scenes. He's the most supportive person I could possibly imagine and the inevitable you know highs and lows. um My dad, favorite person ever, he actually
00:09:51
Speaker
deeply ingrained in me a sense of this is this is his tagline. We call them Shelton isms because okay I love it. and We have a book actually every Christmas we update it but is um his tagline, one of them is they can take away your clothes, they can take away your home They can take away your friends, they can take away your money, but the one thing that you have to freely give away is your integrity. and The second most important thing that he taught me, because that that underpins my business, i'll do ill I'll fail in public, I'll build in public, I make all my so my mistakes, but the through line, no matter what I do, is that integrity piece that he taught me. yeah
00:10:27
Speaker
and then He also taught me about what it really means to be an entrepreneur and that no one can ever take that away from you if you learn the skills and to build your own business. So that's those are two big bus members. And then finally is, of course, just broader family and broader friends that I've been through the trenches with since we were four years old. I love that. So was your dad also an entrepreneur?
00:10:53
Speaker
He was actually, yes, he was, the quick story is that he was a nuclear submariner um and captain there and everything, and then transitioned away from the Navy, went to business school, and then went out and started a large real estate fund.
00:11:10
Speaker
Amazing. and I love have that in common to them. My parents were also very entrepreneurial. Okay. So you landed where you've landed now is is beautiful. I love how you got to where you are.
Mission of Catalyst Collective
00:11:19
Speaker
So catalyst collective for those who don't know, and I want you to to put it in your own words as well, but it definitely very much is clear to me that you have created like an accelerator program and it's got coursework and it's got community and it's got live components and and it's got an affiliate component, but tell it to me in your own world words, like what, what is it that you've built and why are you so passionate about it? Hmm.
00:11:41
Speaker
Whew, this is hard to distill down because my just energy for it is so much, it did ah, it did you so okay, I'll do distill. The core reason was this, again, i'll keep just this term of just like this manifesto of like, how can I pierce through the screen and basically come over to the equivalent, the figurative younger self, and just be like, you have to start. You have to start. And I always say, movement to contact. like Just go and then see what happens. And you know the best laid plans, right? Just you have to start moving. And so the purpose behind it that I don't think will ever change is inspiring women and others to really just start that, take it from potential energy to kinetic, like you just have to
00:12:34
Speaker
go and be your own catalyst for a life change, for an inflection point to get past and to just try and be muddy in the arena, failing ruthlessly, pursuing that, you know, just get in there. So that was the purpose. But yes, a catalyst at its core is a zero to one business accelerator. So you come a beginner, at you understand and cut your teeth on business principles, on digital business, on everything that is Instagram as a customer acquisition channel. We go through branding and sales and marketing and taxes and LLC formation, everything you need to really come in. Earn the cash reserve to de-risk, being able to quit your corporate environment. that's That was my model and I'm trying to replicate that for others. Start with the side hustle, use Catalyst as a well-vetted high brand equity product to earn your cash reserve.
00:13:29
Speaker
And then transition into phase two, which is becoming a builder where you're actually building your own minimally viable product alongside catalyst. And then you graduate the program, have a catalyst that's phase three, which is where you truly have your own, hopefully six figure launch. Amazing.
00:13:47
Speaker
Isn't it interesting? Do you find, I want to, I want to highlight something you just mentioned, you know, this, this concept of creating for lack of a better term, the nest egg, the safety pad underneath us before someone leaves. They're nine to five or whatever kind of job that they have that's currently paying the bills that feels a little bit more, uh, stable, so to speak, even though I don't believe in that, but I did the same thing.
00:14:12
Speaker
So I wanna ask you, um you know, I had a little side hustle going on before I officially left Yamaha. And in hindsight, looking back, I think it did more for me than I realized because it does give you this sense of I can do this, like proof in the pudding, right? And I wonder if as humans by and large, I'm curious what your thoughts are here. If as humans by and large, if we kind of need that for the most of us, maybe not. what do you Have you noticed that?
The Role of Side Hustles in Career Transition
00:14:42
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think everyone's level, everyone's threshold is so variable. And I think there's beauty in that. But it all comes down to what I love most is which is understanding what makes people tick and consumer behavior. And that's what I've studied. That's what I continue to study just in life. I love it. And the depth of or I should say the the level of variability of risk tolerance or lack thereof is truly astounding to me. It's so easy to quote unquote blame or assign a good high paying job that is stable at a well-renowned company, so on and so forth, like Yamaha or Meta. It's so easy to use that as the scapegoat of like, oh, but it's so great I have this cushy position. But I think that robs us of the true underlying reason
00:15:39
Speaker
of, and i'm I'm still thinking through this myself for what it it what it means to myself, but it's it robs us of the true distillation of what we're meant to be and who we're meant to be and what truly motivates us. So absolutely. I think only speaking from my personal experience, because that's all I've ever done, side hustle is the gateway to build up not just the cash reserve, but it is, and it's not even the money, it is the proxy.
00:16:09
Speaker
for a level of conviction, just as you said, to say, oh, I can do this. Oh, I have an MVP. I have a, we call it a, I won't say it on here, but a S first draft, ah not so great. yeahen gu you know But it's like that is, you're getting into market and you're proving to yourself that you can do it irrespective of the money. It is simply, I think the perfect conduit to de-risk something and to just prove it to yourself. I think everybody needs that jumpstart.
00:16:39
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I think they're the the people who are able to just leap with Nona at all are few and far between. If we're being honest, they're cut from a different cloth, right? And more bower to them. Love you admire you. I just don't, I don't, I doubt that that is typical, right? Um, so that's interesting little side note. Is there anything that has been that like super surprising for you so far in this entrepreneurial journey, anything that's like really caught you off guard or maybe anything that's rocked you to your core and you're like, Oh, okay.
00:17:09
Speaker
Yes.
Personal Growth in Entrepreneurship
00:17:10
Speaker
And actually if I can, I'll start with that one because in full candor, a lot has rocked me to my core. And I'm sure you as a fellow entrepreneur and hopefully many listening have seen this as well in their own way, but the compression of time, I'm starting to say entrepreneurs, are entrepreneur years are like dog years. I feel like, you know, if you had asked me in June,
00:17:38
Speaker
as a baby in all of this, and now I know it's only November, but gosh, the progression of time, the compression of exposure and data points. And I think what one big surprising thing from my own journey is that you simply don't, you build your company, but in so doing it's your company is a reflection of you and you're not actually building yourself. You're unraveling everything that you're not. And so my confidence, my increased conviction, my increased revenue, yes, we can talk about systems and optimizations, but it's really not that. It's a reflection of me. Now this is for solopreneurs, not show more personal brands, but it's a reflection of me and my development and my
00:18:24
Speaker
hopefully ability, still working on it, to put ego aside and be like, I'm humbled here. I have no idea what I'm doing. yeah Can you please help me? And bringing in experts to fill those gaps. And so the biggest surprise there is the compression of time. The second big surprise is how deeply and inextricably linked your self-development is from your business top line.
Managing Public Perception as a Personal Brand
00:18:48
Speaker
sir Yeah.
00:18:50
Speaker
And the ability to, sorry, I have to, just because I'm sure we're all in the thick of it here, but something that has rocked me to my core is how I'm still working on this. I have not mastered this, so I can't offer anything here, but I'm struggling with handling and building thicker skin. And you are a personal brand. I have built.
00:19:16
Speaker
a successful company in spite of a lot of mistakes along the way. And that is almost part of the woven fabric and that's what specialists I'm building in public and then sharing the mistakes. But inevitably there will be things that are throwing stones too. And I haven't quite mastered that yet yeah because recognizing at the end of the day that this is a business, that is something that's rocking me to my core. And frankly, the lack of integrity online under the guise of anonymity.
00:19:44
Speaker
Um, ooh, ooh, ooh. Yes. And I think, you know, just to, to offer a little bit of, of light your way in regards to that as someone who's been doing this for, what am I going on 14 years now?
00:20:00
Speaker
um and who coaches other women all day long, I don't think we ever become robotic to the point that it doesn't impact you. If if it did, I would be a little concerned about your health and well-being, but it does get easier and it is um It is the truth that when we are the face of our brands and we are the face of the business um you know we weren't designed we were not we were not taught and raised how to dissociate with ourselves we spend our whole life going around the world with.
00:20:32
Speaker
having interactions and kind of gauging how that interaction went. Right. So it makes sense. And I just say that to say like, I don't know that it ever fully goes away. It definitely gets a lot easier. You definitely learn how to like, not, I say put down what you're carrying. It's not yours to carry. So for carrying around something that's like not ours to carry. It's really a reflection on them. It's really an inner thing going on with them. And we're confident and comfortable with our integrity, to use your word and how we've shown up, then we're going to put down what we're carrying and we're going to move on. But but yeah, I hear you. some And it's it's such a real thing. and And it is why the personal growth journey is so important as we build these businesses. Exactly. And I appreciate that a lot. and i
00:21:12
Speaker
i It's one of those things where I need a new word for it, but there's, there's this hybrid where, especially in entrepreneurs, entrepreneurial journeys where I intellectually know, but hearing someone who's been in your position to be able to internalize it, that is so helpful for me along the way. And it's all about considering the source. So I really do appreciate that guidance too, because I think, yeah just still learning, you know, still learning along the way. yeah Yeah, it's an it's a never-ending learning landscape, in my opinion, and especially considering how much the world has changed for me in the last four years and the last, ten you know, since I started this journey as an entrepreneur, it feels like night and day in some ways.
Effective Social Media Strategies
00:21:55
Speaker
um And so, especially when it comes to digital marketing, which is obviously your cup of tea. So let's talk a little bit about your, um your you know,
00:22:05
Speaker
you emphasize, you teach social media strategies, or organic and paid, but let's let's focus on the organic side for just a second. what What are some key elements that you've noticed in the current landscape are key for authentic growth, for resonating with an audience, for for creating some momentum, so to speak, if you are a business owner listening who has an Instagram account? I love that. Okay, so number one, and this might seem at least on a certain level, counterintuitive. But what I've so vehemently believe is, as someone who did help train the enforcement models, it's like, wait, Brooke, wouldn't you rather teach that? Actually, no, because I, to your question, so deeply believe that if you design for the person, not the machine, the algorithms are simply the messenger. They're the FedEx guy, they're the UPS guy delivering your virtual package to that right person. And the more precise you can be in your message, the more it will truly pierce through the noise and stand out and and really have that. So as much as I always enjoy teaching the mechanical side, I actually believe for true authentic quick growth, because who doesn't like the quick growth that I was able to convert is facing
00:23:32
Speaker
the challenging but absolutely necessary prerequisite, which is what is your right to win? What is your brand identity? What is your competitive advantage? And distilling that, and we have frameworks and everything we go through, but at its core, it's what do people already come to you for in your life? Your kids, your spouse, your friends, your you know grandparents, whomever coworkers, and then you know taking personality tests and really uncovering how you speak and holding a mirror to yourself that is already, and then distilling that. Because I have clients who have 1,000 followers who are making far more than those with almost a million followers. And I know we all that but that's become a trope at this point. It's like, OK, organic content, followers doesn't equal sales. And we know that. But I believe it's because if you speak with conviction and authority, that can't help but be
00:24:27
Speaker
I always say be the voice, not the echo. Replicating derivative strategies that work for someone else is the fast track to failing on it on Instagram. o Yeah. So it's more what it's not. Yeah. I'm happy to go into what, what tactics do work as well.
Debunking Instagram Myths
00:24:44
Speaker
Well, let's just like do a little, game I think we can do a little game of true or false because I wrote down a list of things. I was like, Oh, let's just. Debunk some myths. Let's play a little game with some of this. So <unk>s take time all right this is in my chair, cause this is going to be good. Okay. So true or false. You should only post at certain times, like look at your analytics and figure out what days of the week and what times you should be posting on your account.
00:25:07
Speaker
so i'm going to love this game way too much false false false yeah Yup. Okay. I'll do only two second versions of each just to contextualize. So that's okay. I know people when when they do non lightning rounds, but false. And here's why. It's not that you're, you know, the only exception is if you're a local retailer and you have like a brick and mortar presence where yes, you need to be able to geotarget and understand the peaks and troughs of your audience. If you are global in a digital business, absolutely not. Because what I find is it often precludes you from even posting and you use that as an excuse. So yes, analytics are helpful.
00:25:40
Speaker
but just getting it out there and letting the algorithms take take it with the wind is much more powerful. Much more powerful. Love that. Okay, true or false? Hashtags are dead.
00:25:52
Speaker
ah True. um In that you should still use them. We allot 30. You should probably only use five to eight maximum, and you should nest them with two that are over above a million, and then the rest should be fewer than 50,000 to nest them to increase your probability of being seen. That said, the classifying mechanism is so much weaker than it was three years ago. It's far more impactful to use what's called search engine optimization keywords or SEO to be able to integrate that evenly dispersed between your video text
00:26:26
Speaker
like in your real or your post, as well as in the caption. No need to put it like at the end of your caption, but naturally weave it through and the audio and the algorithms will deliver that to your right audience. Makes sense. Okay. True or false, ah before you post, get on Instagram and engage for 15 minutes or 30 minutes. I've heard varying issues, varying degrees of this.
00:26:48
Speaker
this trend, but you should engage before and after you post basically. yes because Me too. Me too. I hear the 15 one a lot, but um I would say that definitely I have strong feelings about this one false. And here's why, because it's not that engagement study isn't important. It's just that. Especially as a newer account, when you're trying to grow outbound optimization, meaning content creation is so much more important and has a higher return on investment or return on effort.
00:27:17
Speaker
than does any engagement strategy. The best thing you can do for engagement is just five minutes a few times a week. There's no set playbook is to simply go and find the big fish, the market leader in your industry and align yourself to them because you're capitalizing on the richness of data that they've earned in the algorithm classification system. When you say align yourself with them, can you tell us more about what you mean by that?
00:27:43
Speaker
Absolutely. So just as a, hopefully to make it a little bit more concrete in the female coaching and online business world, but I would, my return on time investment is so much higher to not only post and then anytime it doesn't have to be before or after to go make a meaningful and insightful comment on Marie Forleo's page or Jenna Kutcher's page, because they have the richness of data having been around for many years, have large scale audiences.
00:28:11
Speaker
then say spending 15 minutes commenting on more direct smaller accounts. So it's really just engagement or liking or saving or sharing their content. Yeah, I love it. okay um True or false, you have to post three times a day in order to grow your account.
00:28:26
Speaker
No. and i like we're hitting I'm getting you a lot of falsals, but keep going. It's okay. Who knows? Maybe we're saving folks time here. I don't know. um I would say definitely not. um More is more insofar as you're getting your reps in just like you would going to the gym, but the point of diminishing returns is, I think, not worthwhile unless you're using it as a feedback loop to understand what's working, what's not, and then integrating that. Otherwise, you're prolonging what's not working. Yep. That makes sense. I was going to ask you a follow up, um, not necessarily true or false, but do you find that so, you know, cause I've heard this a lot, really, you just have to figure out what content works and guess what? In order to figure out what content works, you're going to have to post a bunch of content and some of it might tank. So I get into this, I feel this fear in me that goes, but if it tanks, is that going to affect the algorithm and my next post won't be shown. So can you talk about that for
Content Strategy and Algorithms
00:29:20
Speaker
a second? Sure, sure. That's a great call. Yes. So it's,
00:29:24
Speaker
It's interesting. So the the number one metric that's far and wide optimized in now each, I'm sorry, each placement, meaning type of posts on Instagram has its own distinct algorithmic ranking system. So there's no one algorithm, there's actually a ton, and they're governed by different metrics. So reels, for example, is all about getting net new exposure.
00:29:48
Speaker
carousels meaning like the swipe is more about building affinity and trust, so on and so forth. So completely normal and justified to be like, oh, I don't want this post to tank. And there is a little bit of cannibalization in that if you post too quickly in a short period of time, the algorithms don't know which one to send out and test with your audience. All that to say, that's not that nearly as important as simply just getting it out. And so what I would recommend is you can always archive.
00:30:17
Speaker
You can always delete, but be an investor, not a day trader, meaning let things ride. Let things ride for at least two or three weeks, give it a chance, and then and only then look at the data knowing that it's not indelible. like You can absolutely archive it. I've archived. I'll cop to that. I'm embarrassed. you know yeah so I would say absolutely.
00:30:41
Speaker
Uh, that's a good tip. Be the investor, not the day trader. So good. Cause some people freak out. Oh my God, it didn't do well. And I'm like, how long has it been up? I don't know. Since yesterday morning. I'm like, okay, um let's let's let it ride for a second. and Um, okay. That's really good tip. Um, okay. Last one true or false. Um, you shouldn't run ads until you've, let's say the one I've heard the most is like, until you've already got, I've proven organic marketing funnel that works. That's already making you money. Then run the ads. What do you say around that?
00:31:11
Speaker
Ah, so my putting my meta hat back on, this is what we were trained to say, is ah for whatever that's worth, um is, and it's true. i It's easy to poke fun at, but it's true. Organic is where you build your brand. Ads is where you build your conversion funnel. And they are so inextricably linked, it doesn't mean that you can't illicit sales without organic. And it also doesn't mean that you can't, you know, uh, make sales just an organic presence. I've seen that success story many a time. It's that they are designed to be compatible and interwoven. And so I would say learn ads sooner than you feel you're ready. And if it's helpful context, boosting is in no way an ad, um, doesn't mean it doesn't have its time in place, but ads are the jet fuel.
00:32:08
Speaker
I think the only prerequisite you need to avoid losing money is having a somewhat optimized sales funnel and a core product offering and clear user journey end to end. If you have at least some portion of that, then you can try ads because ads are jet fuel. hu You don't need a big organic presence, you need a funnel.
00:32:32
Speaker
Yeah. So yeah, you really do need to know the funnel from like the time they come in through the ad to where they're going. And I know that we don't we're not going to get into the the details of this, but I'll just say one of the things I've heard from a lot of my clients and people in the industry that are ad experts and that that is changing a little bit right now and the buyer journey is changing a little bit right now. And I've spoken about that from an organic perspective as well. And so noticing like, you know, I think in order to run and run ads,
00:33:00
Speaker
for smaller solopreneurs, it can just feel really scary to think that they're playing with that money until they figure out what that funnel, you know, what works and how the funnel works and does it con convert. So I think that's probably why you hear that, that MO that basically is just like, make sure you've got a funnel that works before you start throwing money at it. But I, yeah but I also see that it would be beneficial to throw some money at it so that you get people through the door so that you can figure out if they're, but you know, it goes both ways.
00:33:26
Speaker
Oh, I love that. Sorry, one more quick thing on that, because it's so important. I think inverting that, if and again it goes I think it goes back to just that overall risk tolerance we talked about, whether it's quitting your job, or you know and it's everyone's prerogative for their own business, but what I would offer is, to the extent that you're comfortable, just go one notch up and try
Integrating Ads into Business Strategy
00:33:44
Speaker
it anyway. You don't have to go crazy, but I would offer, and I know I'm biased, I know I'm biased, but if you can at least put in a few dollars to just practice and to get your reps in and practice like you play, knowing that when you do have more on the line to lose, you can go for it. But yes, to your point, and Tiffany, I love that you said that because it's so organic data and acting upon that is one thing. But the compression of time and the data-driven learnings that you can get, oh my gosh, it's a hundredfold to be able to run those ads and get the data. Get the data, yeah.
00:34:21
Speaker
I want to talk a little bit about AI automations and all of that jazz, which is all new stuff that's on the market now. Um, and in some ways really making our lives easier in some ways, maybe creating some extra complications for some people, but what yeah tools are you loving
AI Tools for Business Efficiency
00:34:36
Speaker
right now? And we can talk both from Instagram perspective and business perspective, entrepreneurial perspective.
00:34:41
Speaker
I love that. So AI to me, and I'm sure, I mean, it's not a novel idea, it's not a revolutionary, but I do agree with it, which is AI is simply an extension of you. And it allows you to spend more time in what you do best. You know, many call that the zone of genius, but oh it saved me so much time and Now that I've had a taste of it, I can't really stop. I'm like, okay, what else can we systematize? And it's not even standard operating procedures anymore for our team. It's how do we remove ourselves entirely? So I think from an Instagram side, I think the core answer is bucket one, video editing. I am a huge fan of Heygen, which is generative AI to be able to, for example, on my most recent mini launch last week of Spark.
00:35:26
Speaker
I don't speak a word of Spanish. I'm embarrassed because my fifth grade Spanish teacher would be like, Oh, come on, Brooke. But I actually, it looks like I'm absolutely a native speaker. Now, I don't know if that's true or not, but people yeah but you can translate. So I think Hey, Jen is great. Um, it creates an, a custom avatar for you. Um, cool there are a lot of voice generators that I'm still working through. So I can't recommend one, but for example, you can take something that you write and then it will,
00:35:55
Speaker
mimic the the tone of intonation of your voice. So it's great for course creators or someone who you know can whip that out. And then for content creation, I really like meta AI because you can simply scrape the data, put that into viral finder, which is a market research tool, and then be able to batch that out. And then the last one is copy AI.
00:36:17
Speaker
or Jasper, where you can actually train it, just like you can chat GPT, to build a custom GPT so that you don't have to provide context every time. It can just know you, your background, and your business, and spit out Instagram captions that are far yeah they're not nearly as generic as they get the reputation for.
00:36:36
Speaker
right Oh, so good. So good. So good. Uh, do you feel like, do you see a trend of where AI is going to have like a huge impact on social media creation moving forward, like positive or negative? Do you have any? Yes. And you know, it just goes to show, or it's a nice case study that we're being a part of where, I mean, geez, in May, when I was still a matter, I guess April, this was just a very nascent stage topic. And I think a good.
00:37:04
Speaker
litmus test for that was back when I was on the business integrity team writing the policies. There was nothing there, nothing about that. And we're still trying to figure out what that looks like and how to govern and enforce upon that. So that just goes to show this is new territory. yeah I think for the better, especially in 2025, my personal forecast for content creators and AI is that it's going to take If there are any barriers to entry right now to the knowledge economy and creator economy, it will remove them all together simply because the time to creation and the time to having your own platform and democratize access to everybody for a business, it's
The Future of AI in Content Creation
00:37:42
Speaker
gone. So I think that's a wonderful thing. And then more specifically, I think AI is going to help myself and other content creators out there be able to save time and content batch.
00:37:54
Speaker
So I believe if you're familiar with the faceless marketing trend, um, it's funny how things take shape because faceless marketing is not a novel concept, but the way we referred to it this year, it was more about, you know, beautiful models and very motivational, um, quotes. I believe the new generation with AI is going to be gen AI where it's face ish content. It's our likeness, but it's actually not us. So it's the best of both worlds.
00:38:23
Speaker
You can have a dirty house, you can be in your pajamas, but you can still look polished online. That's my forecast. Oh, that's going to be so fascinating if that's true. I'm not sure about it. very like We'll see how it plays out. Yeah. Yeah. And put my money there. Yeah. yeah I mean, I think you're probably not wrong at all. ah Just based on the trends, the filters, when filters came online and how quickly they kind of took over because everybody wants to look their best, right? So this is just another version of that to a degree.
Vision for 'OOO CEOs'
00:38:57
Speaker
I saw a little interviews in a bit where you were talking about creating ah yeah on um being on a mission of creating OOO CEOs, meaning out of office CEOs. And I love this. um I've you know been talking about when i when i when I did leave corporate America and even after I started my fourth our third business and hit pretty bad burnout, I've been on this journey of of trying to make sure that entrepreneurs know that they can have abundance and joy. Like we can be successful and we can have balance, right? And so this reminds me of that, but tell me more. What do you mean when you say, oh, oh, oh, CEO and and what are you going to do about it? At first, to be honest, always take credit when something was incredibly intentional, but this was not to be honest. I had it on a few hats. i was I was just trying to hype myself up at the beginning. And so I had them on hats and people kept going,
00:39:47
Speaker
Ooh, CEO. I'm like, no, that's not what I want. That's so embarrassing how like marching around at that. So we had to rejigger it quickly. But yes. Oh, CEO out of office CEO is more seriously, it comes from everything that I was fleeing, whether I noticed it or not. And it's as simple as no more asking permission, no more clocking in and out, no more being beholden to another person's schedule or dream. I mean, it's all the typical tropes, but for me personally, it is how at every single step of the way do we infuse freedom into our business and design the life and the business around it? Because revenue is one thing, winning is one thing, but there's always a cost and I've learned that too. And while seemingly contradictory, I so vehemently believe in hustling to get where you need to go.
00:40:44
Speaker
but with intention and pursuit of a point of calibration where there is freedom. And frankly, I don't know if I was really a living example of that in all honesty this summer, because I was staying up really late and trying to hustle, hustle, hustle. I didn't lose friends, but I lost the closeness of friends. yeah And there were a lot of sacrifices, and I'm only now achieving that, but I did it because I had to prove to myself that OOO of CEO means freedom.
00:41:14
Speaker
To be you and to not have to choose between money and memories The quick turning point for me just a quick story is I had a family passing um family death and I'll never and I didn't even realize at the time but I I simply went back to work, not because meta is incredibly flexible and meta is everything, but I just went back the same day, two hours later and I just got on the meetings and I'll never forgive myself for the foregone memories and the foregone just stillness that I think I needed and my family needed. And I think that ability to discern your own freedom at any given time
00:42:03
Speaker
definitionally is the whole point. You don't have to define it because freedom is whatever you like. So that's what I'm arching toward. I love that. And I think even I hear your story, I relate so much and I guess it was two years ago when my father passed. And even after that, and which would have been long, maybe like a Thursday. And then by Monday I was back at work and I don't even have a boss.
00:42:28
Speaker
Right. And I remember I was hosting an event and like bright and early on a Tuesday morning, I used to host this little event called coffee talk for entrepreneurs in Nashville. And I hosted that event and I remember, you know, and and it was a touching, if I say so myself, it was a touching moment and morning, but in hindsight, was that the best thing for me to do?
00:42:48
Speaker
I think at the time I thought, let me get back to work. Let me get back to my purpose. Let me get back and be surrounded by people, right? But it is a bit of an escape, probably, if we're being honest, if my therapist was sitting here, she'd probably say. sir you know so i think I guess I wanted to share that because I think if you're listening and you want to you know you you you do want more freedom and you want more balance and you want more life, I guess my nugget for you would be to know that it's always up to you.
Balancing Work and Personal Life in Entrepreneurship
00:43:13
Speaker
It's always up to you. And when we are high achievers, which typically the type of people listening to this podcast would identify as, it I think sometimes the hardest part is to know how to put the brakes on when I need to put the brakes on. And even after a really successful launch and a really, you know, there's always going to be seasons maybe where you're working through the weekends or, you're you know, but like, are you going to be able to give yourself the grace to take a break on the other side of that?
00:43:40
Speaker
And that's how when I say balance, I don't think it's ever smooth sailing, but I think we just need to always make sure that we are coming back to center. I love that. I like to call it rotational balance. I don't think there's a day and a point in time where Maybe there is, but for me, there's not where you wake up and you have this wonderful workout and you have this stillness and then you get into the mode. I think there are peaks and troughs, but then if you look at a glimpse or a cross section of time at a longer time horizon, like a month, that's where the balance hopefully comes in. Yeah, 100%. What's next for you with Catalyst Collective and everything you're building? What's next on the horizon?
Upcoming Projects for Catalyst Collective
00:44:23
Speaker
Well, speaking of little lunches and everything, I am coming off um a really fun one for Spark, which is our kind of mini sampler solely for Instagram for sales. Um, but I think what I'm finding is there's this market gap that I haven't yet filled, even though I think there's something to say you're filling it and to actually do it. And that was a very humbling moment where I'm like, I don't think I'm still there yet and that's okay, but it's a learning. So I've been trying to.
00:44:52
Speaker
architect this incubator for a while now, but there needs to be a point of graduation. And so what we're doing this December, what's next for me is a BYOB, build your own biz. Oh, I love it. We're doing a little sprint and then you graduate the accelerator in December with a January launch in hand ready to go. So I'm excited for that live. Awesome. Oh, okay. Well, you share so many good, so many good. Like I follow a lot of people who teach Instagram. You serve really good nuggets on the ground. So will you tell everybody where they can find you and follow along? You're very sweet. Thank you. ah Brooke Shelton official.
00:45:29
Speaker
um For Instagram, website, you name it. All of it. And all of her offers, I mean, she does a beauty you do a beautiful job. It's very clear if you want to know where to go, just go to her Instagram, I think, because you' you've got everything laid out there. Thank you so much for peeling back the curtain and being honest and vulnerable. That's really what this space is all about.
00:45:47
Speaker
and I appreciate everyone who comes on and you know sits down with me and says, okay, let's talk about the good, the bad, the ugly. and um so Thank you for that and thank you for sharing so much of your Instagram and meta wisdom. I know I appreciate it and I'm sure all the listeners do as well. Thank you very much for having me and I learned a lot too. I appreciate it.