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Owning Your Worth: Scaling an Agency with Chanel Cathey
55 Plays1 day ago
In this episode of This or More, we sit down with Chanel Cathey, the founder and CEO of CJC Insights, to dive into the world of communication strategy, entrepreneurship, and leadership. Chanel shares the highs and lows along her journey of building a successful PR and communications firm, the importance of relationships, and how she stands out in a competitive industry.
In this episode, we discuss:
- Going from corporate to entrepreneurship
- The benefits of a purposeful pause
- Dealing with imposter syndrome and self-doubt
- Strategies for breaking barriers in male-dominated industries
- The role of mentorship in entrepreneurial success
- The importance of self-advocacy and confidence
- And why every entrepreneur needs a therapist!
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to This or More, a wild entrepreneurial podcast adventure for bold and brave creatives like you. I'm Tiffany Knapper, your host, holistic business coach, corporate music industry dropout, a seasoned five-time multi-six-figure entrepreneur, yoga instructor, and your go-to gal for heart-to-heart coffee chats.
00:00:21
Speaker
On this show, we're not just here to share stories. We're here to ignite a fire within you and make you realize that the reality you envision is just the tip of the iceberg. You're wildly capable of achieving that reality and so much more. So my friends, grab your cup of inspiration, settle in, and let's dive into another inspiring episode of This or More.
Meet Chanel Cathy
00:00:45
Speaker
Today, I'm sitting down with Chanel Cathy, the powerhouse behind CJC Insights, an award-winning PR and communications agency. Chanel has worked with everyone from startups to Fortune 500s, and her expertise has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Fast Company, and more.
00:01:01
Speaker
But the fun part about this story is Chanel and I met at an event in Miami. We were actually both sitting down in the Gucci store to give our feet a rest when we realized how much we have in common.
00:01:12
Speaker
I knew we would be fast friends. In this episode, we're diving into the mindset shifts that helped her own her worth, why all entrepreneurs need a therapist, and the biggest lessons she's learned from the unexpected highs and lows of scaling an agency.
00:01:27
Speaker
If you've ever felt the growing pains of scaling your business, this episode is for you. Welcome to the show, Chanel.
Chanel's Career Shift - Question
00:01:34
Speaker
I am so thrilled to have you here today. I'm so, so glad to be here with you.
00:01:40
Speaker
This started from a conversation that you and I were having just one-to-one, one former PR agency owner to ah current PR agency owner. And we were having such a delightful conversation, so juicy, so many nuggets that I was like, we have to get you on the podcast and we have to go a little deeper and share this with other people. So I'm excited to pull back the curtain a little bit with you today.
00:02:02
Speaker
I'm delighted. i feel like it's very rare where two PR gals get to think and reflect on our careers and talk about some of the pain points and some of the awesome bright spots. So let's jump in.
00:02:14
Speaker
Exactly. We're going to like talk shop, which is really fun for me. I want to take it back though. You had an aha moment when you decided to leave corporate and start your own agency. So will you share with us what that aha moment was?
Founding CJC Insights
00:02:28
Speaker
Sure, sure. i always – I will tell people I thought I would be like a chief communications officer at and at a huge company and that was always my like North Star for my for my career.
00:02:41
Speaker
um i was like a communications major in college and i just knew like this is the direction you go in. um And then, you know, corporate's exhausting. You know, the corporate ladder, as they say, you know, I worked at CPG companies. I worked in in media. And it was an amazing, amazing career experience. So now I have over 20 years of experience. But at the time, it was over 10 years you know, in the business. And you never take a minute to stop and reflect on your personal wins and kind of like, hey, i ah had that great run.
00:03:20
Speaker
But I definitely took a moment after just going nonstop and took really a reflective pause at like, where do I want my career to go? and you know, what if I decide to step out and do something different?
00:03:33
Speaker
And I really just took some time off. I was out in the West Coast in San Francisco And I remember being like in a lobby and there were all of these magazines, all business magazines. And like, there was just like all of them across many different months because you know how they all stack up and no one ever moves them.
00:03:53
Speaker
And there were all white men on the cover. And, you know, that was kind of a moment for me where I was just like, wow, there are women in business. You know, there are amazing people of color in business. Why aren't we getting those headlines. Why aren't we getting those covers?
00:04:08
Speaker
And it just was a stark moment for me. But with everyone like passing by, that was like a significant time for me to say that this is this is what we know and it's kind of accepted and it's just like, well, how do how do we challenge that status quo?
00:04:27
Speaker
And i never thought I would start an agency. I kind of just said like, can i consult for a few months over a summer with a couple of brands that I believe in and founders that I think are doing some really incredible work? And many of them are my dear friends and They were like, hey, we will totally support you if you want to do this work and can you help us?
From Exhaustion to Empowerment
00:04:50
Speaker
And I thought I would consult for a summer and here we are at seven years later. um We built CJC Insights into this amazing agency and our clients have...
00:05:02
Speaker
just been truly phenomenal. So from that moment to, to now, I always never underestimate, you know, that one moment that you think could like transform your direction. at least for me, it was just like, i'm not going to wave that off.
00:05:17
Speaker
I think that could be ah business idea down the road. I thought maybe a side hustle, but clearly, clearly ah business idea. Clearly it had bigger it was bigger than that.
00:05:28
Speaker
I love that. A reflective pause, a powerful pause. um that's That's where the magic is. And i'm glad i mean I'm glad you gave yourself that. I think there's probably people listening that are going, I'd like to take a powerful pause, but how do I do that? Will you give us a little context? like How long was that pause when you went to California?
00:05:45
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it was probably two weeks, a week and a half. It wasn't like this long moment. It was just, i I always used to be
Embracing True Self
00:05:55
Speaker
the person who never took a vacation day. And I was like wearing that with a badge of honor.
00:06:00
Speaker
i would be like, I was in the office every day. And, you know, to me, that meant I'm a productive worker. you know, you're seeing like newer generations now and how they are revolutionizing work and hybrid work. And, but back then i had like this ideal of like,
00:06:19
Speaker
a city girl and New York City, heels on, you know flats on and sneakers on in the subway, but emerging with heels and this whole like suit presence and like going into this you know sky rise, high rise and just like owning the room. That was to me like a successful business woman.
00:06:39
Speaker
and i would watch movies and I'm like, how do I morph into that? and I always remember, like I'm like, maybe shoulder pads will make me serious. You know, so it was just like you're always mimicking and trying to like be a sponge for what's around you. And I had this ideal of what working in media, working in PR would be.
00:07:00
Speaker
ah You always see like there's even sex in the city had Kim Cattrall was like the PR girl. There are these images of like this is what you have to do. You always have to be on the go. You always have to be at events.
00:07:12
Speaker
You always have to be by your client's side. It's a 24-7 business. Your phone always has to be on. You always have to be available. um You have to be the smartest one in the room.
00:07:23
Speaker
Everyone comes to you for help. You can't ask questions. and You can't be weak. These are a lot of the things I think I absorbed. And then as you grow and you mature, it's like you can ask questions and you should. You know you start to slowly deconstruct this image you have you know in in your mind. And for me, it was very much like straightening my hair. And there was just like a lot of things about myself that I really suppressed.
00:07:53
Speaker
to try to be what I thought was this image of like an awesome career PR girl. And, and now I think back on it and I'm like, what was I doing?
00:08:07
Speaker
You know, but, but also I had an amazing career. Like I worked with incredible people. I learned from them every day. you know, so many of them are mentors and they were sponsors, advisors, however people you know frame it today. But people who really talked about me when I'm not in the room to say Chanel's got talent and put me forward for projects that you know would be stretch opportunities for me. And we still have relationships to this day and they get to see their kids growing up. And it's like we were all younger. And now as we're older and seeing like our families in the world,
00:08:42
Speaker
It's exciting, but you know when you're reflecting on that growth arc in the beginning, it was really about like what do I think I need to be? And so much of my 20s and 30s was like, hey, let's break some of that down to create who I am and really understand myself and then understand that that can be you know a dynamic businesswoman and a leader and a CEO too.
Career Stability and Opportunities
00:09:05
Speaker
And I never thought I could start a business. you know i My dad's a retired teacher. My mom's a retired nurse. They went into these career industries where you go and you retire, you get your pension, and you live happily ever after. And to me, I was like, I want to do that. I want to stay somewhere long enough and retire.
00:09:26
Speaker
And then you started to see people moving around a lot in jobs. And I was like, wait a minute, what's that? We can move jobs and it's okay after a year or two. and then you're like, okay, I can, you know, jump into a new, come kind you know, a new country, a new company and get a promotion and make more money. And you start to see like the inner workings of the business. And at the same time, you're really learning a lot about yourself.
00:09:51
Speaker
And that was the case for me. So when I had that moment, you know, it really was just taking time to say, what do I really want from my life? What do I want for my future?
00:10:03
Speaker
And I do think a lot about legacy. Like how will I be remembered? And not in a way that's narcissistic in any way, but we're all here for a really short amount of time and every interaction with people matters. It impacts them. lasts with them.
00:10:20
Speaker
So how can I make the most of my time here on earth? And I really think about my career in that sense. I don't separate it to say, oh, that's my personal life. That's my... my company, it's like all a big mush. I'm sure so many ah career coaches would say that should be separated. But for me, it's really like you're like all part of my purpose.
Aligning Career with Purpose
00:10:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:42
Speaker
Yeah. I love that. And you, yeah, I mean, i I think when we are passionate about what we do and we feel, it's funny. So this morning I was in hot yoga class and I was in pigeon pose and I was thinking to myself, what I get to help people be their best selves for a living.
00:10:59
Speaker
That's what I do now, right? ah What a beautiful thing. And so when you're passionate about what you do and you feel like it is like indirect alignment with your purpose here on earth, of course, it's all mushy and ah and interconnected. I mean, it's for me, it's all part of your legacy. So that makes perfect sense to me. And you know you maybe maybe we're wrong. I don't know. But it makes sense to me.
00:11:23
Speaker
We're aligned in wanting to help our clients be their best selves. like You're doing that every day. And it's the same thing in PR. We're showing up to help our clients tell their stories, to be their most authentic self, but also to be comfortable in front of media and to find the right opportunities that allow them um to shine. So it's all connected in a very interesting way. You wouldn't think so, but it all all comes together.
00:11:49
Speaker
Oh, for sure it does. And I've heard you mention a couple of times this the word relationships. And for me, when I think back on my decade plus in PR. It is
Balancing Relationships
00:12:00
Speaker
such a relationship-driven industry.
00:12:02
Speaker
And I'm curious how you kind of balance with maintaining client relationships and and and especially as we're going to talk a little bit about what it looks like to truly scale an agency. I want to peel back um the curtain a little bit and talk about some of those growing pains that we don't expect to happen and then some of the big wins that we we get to celebrate. But when you're in that transition period where you're going from corporate to owning your own agency and then the relationships with the clients.
00:12:28
Speaker
Do you have any suggestions on how you balance maintaining those relationships without it blurring into your personal time? Yeah, I mean, and sometimes it blurs into your personal time.
00:12:40
Speaker
You know, i think back and i have relationships with folks that I met in the beginning of my career and they're dear friends and i go to them for advice. And similarly, i encourage and hope they come to me when they are stuck or need help or just want to bounce a question off.
00:12:58
Speaker
And I think it's that availability and just openness um that makes people really... You know, you want people to feel comfortable with you. And I think that's the key piece of a relationship. You want to be available and around, but increasingly it's harder. Like we all have a finite amount of time in our day and we're all trying to do the most and balance family and life and, know,
00:13:22
Speaker
you know, when you intentionally take time to meet with someone or catch up or do a zoom or grab a coffee or, you know, meet up for drink after work, that's a big deal. And it's like nurturing and cherishing that time with someone. And I always say like, yes, it's an opportunity for you to share who you are, but also just leaning in and asking like, what can I do for you? do you need help with anything?
00:13:48
Speaker
It's a two way street, you know, don't Don't nurture like work relationships and um your personal relationships like vet sessions. There are those people that you can confide in and you can just like bring all all the vent and they can vent back to you. But understanding it's a two-way street and people need to be able to confide in you and they need help as well. So just being available and creating a dynamic in your relationship where people feel like they can talk to you, be vulnerable and open up.
00:14:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, it's so true. i so I'm the same way. I have such beautiful relationships with some of my very first PR clients who were with me for a very long time. And so you become like,
Scaling a Boutique Agency
00:14:31
Speaker
friends you know, close friends, family to a degree.
00:14:34
Speaker
I'm curious, before we dive into some of the growing pains and we talk through some of that, can you paint us a picture? What was your team size when you started seven plus years ago? And then what's your team size now? Just so we can kind of have that in perspective as we talk.
00:14:47
Speaker
Yeah, my team size when we started, it was me.
00:14:52
Speaker
It was me, you know, and I didn't know the first thing about building a team. um So the big moment for me, even in growing and scaling, was making myself the first like full-time employee of my thing. So most entrepreneurs remember that moment when you're like, oh, all my LLC paperwork came in. I'm a real thing.
00:15:13
Speaker
And then you're like, okay, how do I want to, what am i Yes, you're the founder, you're the CEO, but it's like, you're also the first full-time employee of your own thing. So it really started with me. And then I'm really, really blessed where so many of my dear friends and my network really just opened up.
00:15:35
Speaker
And I just started talking about what I was doing. At first I was going to do this quietly. And then if it doesn't work out, no one will ever know that I tried. yeah And then it's just like, you know, I remember that time everybody was just out, you know, there were all these like,
00:15:51
Speaker
you know, professional clubs, networking opportunities. We were all like out and about mingling. And I was like, what do I say? It was the first time i didn't have like a big company to associate myself with.
00:16:05
Speaker
And my identity was so baked into that. And then I just remember being like, well, I'm going to start talking about my business. But it really came out of I how do I identify myself?
00:16:17
Speaker
So being like the first full-time employee of my business was a huge marker just for me and my identity personally. And I went directly to the people I trust, my friends, my network, my colleagues. And I'm like,
00:16:31
Speaker
hey, as I'm taking on more clients, I need help. And I just opened up and saying like, I'm looking for a dynamic publicist. Would you be interested in taking extra hours? Would you want to consult?
00:16:43
Speaker
And it just organically grew. And now, you know, when we think about it, I call us like a little constellation, a little amazing group of like consultants. And we all just kind of come together. And when you think about it, we're under 10 people still. We're very small in the sense of like,
00:17:01
Speaker
bigger agencies with thousands of people. But at the same time, that gives us a more intimate opportunity to have those relationships with our clients. And we had this opportunity, I would say, right in the middle of the pandemic to really scale.
00:17:16
Speaker
I was worried the pandemic would be the undoing, and it was actually this amazing growth opportunity for the business. And it was a learning opportunity for our team because ah to be honest, I just was very scared to scale up and didn't really know how to do it.
00:17:35
Speaker
And I said, you know, we're just going to take a limited number of clients during this time.
Transition to CEO Role
00:17:40
Speaker
um But it really helped solidify us as a team. And i think even now we're seeing how we're starting to build out like our systems and processes. And this is just the perfect time for growth for us.
00:17:53
Speaker
So, yeah. You can see it in the sense of like from one, you know, to, and it depends if we're doing events, we scale up and sometimes we'll have 12 folks, but we're still really, really, really small in the boutique agency sizing perspective. Yeah.
00:18:07
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, i love i that's my sweet spot. I love that size business because we get to be really nimble and we get to like put the best person forward for the job and not just put the person on because that's the junior position person in that position. and And, you know, there's so many pros to to operating as a boutique agency. So I love that. And I love that you just identified for us like when you knew you were in a growth season and was fantastic.
00:18:30
Speaker
yeah obviously when the work was increasing, right? And you just had more opportunities than you had bandwidth. was was Can you identify like a hardship or maybe just a ah moment in time where you were like, oh, i have to shift into boss. I have to shift into leader, maybe coming from mostly being publicist, right? Chief publicist to like CEO and and maybe share with us what that looked like for you and how you navigated that, especially if you had old people on your team who you had to suddenly kind of shift that dynamic just a little bit to make sure everything still worked smoothly. Yeah. No, I think it's amazing when I think about the team that came with me. you know
00:19:13
Speaker
um i remember telling a friend at an event, I'm like, I need to meet an amazing publicist. And they're like, oh, you need to you know meet my friend. And then you know I actually did a mentorship program with PRNet, and I met Alexis on our team through that. And she was my mentee. And then I was like, would you want to work with me?
00:19:31
Speaker
So you have those moments and you bring everyone on. So even if you think about you know Alexis from a mentee to now like running a point on account and doing briefs and booking you know amazing coverage, like for me to see that growth is like so inspiring. Like they inspire me every day and having like the A the a team around you is just, I couldn't do it without them.
00:19:57
Speaker
But I also remember those moments when it was just like, when do we scale up? When do we, you know, try to be something else?
00:20:10
Speaker
And I think one of the challenges is if you, tend to look outside of your lane and you're like, what are other people doing? Oh, they're hiring 10 people. I need to hire 10 people. Like to me, that came with such an immense responsibility. And i said, you know, I'm not going to just do what everybody else is doing.
00:20:30
Speaker
im not going to like take on funding. I just was like, what do I need to do to be profitable? That was my first thing. And I always said to myself, i was like, I want to make as much money as I made when I left the business and then I was like, and then some.
00:20:46
Speaker
So when you reach that point, it's like a personal like, wow, like I'm able to pay myself what I would have made in corporate. That's like the first moment of joy. But also it if you're reaching that level, it's probably time for you to hire.
Managing Growth and Uncertainty
00:21:02
Speaker
And hiring, I would say, was my biggest challenge in scaling. Because there are key roles like your assistant and just your your publicity team. like It's hard in a time when, if you think about it, a crux of our growth happening during a pandemic when people are trying to figure out what they want from work.
00:21:23
Speaker
How do I feel safe in anxious times? And many times in many ways that's happening now. This is a time of a lot of uncertainty, of a lot of unsettled feelings and anxiety.
00:21:35
Speaker
And creating a safe work environment for folks at a time like that is really challenging. So I take it with immense responsibility and I say, I'm not just going to grow and scale fast because.
00:21:46
Speaker
And I think it allows me to work on every single client we have. You will never have a client where they're like, oh, I never saw Chanel. Right. Never will happen. Chanel's in all the team meetings.
00:21:58
Speaker
She's in all, you know, all the edits, all the track changes. And that's intentional. I can 100% outsource myself. But, you know,
00:22:10
Speaker
I want to be in there in the weeds and in the work with my team. And i love that. But I think that's also the challenge point where it's just like, I can't be in every project, in every document.
00:22:22
Speaker
So figuring out, you know, the the team, helping them to develop and train and understand the culture of our business and how we work and,
00:22:33
Speaker
you know Every agency, every PR team is different. you know So understanding what makes us unique and how to deliver that to a client takes time and investment when you're building out your team.
00:22:46
Speaker
So I take that very seriously. i also treat our relationships with our team, they're friends. And I know that that's not a popular you know, leadership piece. But if you spend most of your time with someone and you like roll your eyes, if that person's texting you, it's just like, it's not a good place to be. So I do hope that my, my team trusts me and counts me on the friend page first and foremost.
00:23:15
Speaker
And I always say when they start, I'm like, if we feel like this is going South, let's have a sit down and let's talk about it. And let's find the way to like part ways where we're still in good terms.
00:23:26
Speaker
Because if you just stay in something that isn't right for both of us, eventually, a it's going to hurt the business. B, it's going to help really hurt growth. And it goes back to your initial question around relationships.
00:23:40
Speaker
You end up leaving something that was so treasured, sour. And I really think that it's worth preserving and saving and any at any cost.
Overcoming Industry Odds
00:23:51
Speaker
But managing people is the hardest part.
00:23:54
Speaker
Managing yourself is hard because you're the first full-time person. Like that was the hardest transition for me was just like how not to be an employee. Like I was always being an employee of CJC Insights. it's like, oh, wait, no, I'm the CEO.
00:24:09
Speaker
That's a hard transition. And then also just managing people because people are people. Yep. Yep. And it all comes back to communication, which is the business you're in.
00:24:21
Speaker
but funny enough, when you think back at, um you know, maybe like incredible highs as the as the agency has continued to a stand the test of time, because we know the numbers, we know the stats, like,
00:24:33
Speaker
um You know, businesses' survival rates in the U.S. s are pretty dismal. Women-owned business survival rates in the U.S. s are even more dismal. So to get here is like in and of itself a true triumph.
00:24:45
Speaker
But I would love to know from you what, you know, if you could identify like an extreme high as you've have you as you've made the leap to go out on your own and and stick with it and grow the business.
00:24:57
Speaker
And then we'll come back to maybe something that that wasn't, that was more of a low. Oh, I love that. um Yeah, I mean, I do a lot of work that's just buried in numbers in the sense that we really pay attention to data, especially for storytelling.
00:25:15
Speaker
um We do a lot of work with founders around founder data and in venture capital and private equity. So I'm very well aware um of the representation challenges for a woman and being a Black woman running an agency in New York City in very specific areas, um servicing high growth startups, servicing venture capital, servicing private equity, um working with nonprofits.
00:25:46
Speaker
We have that ability to work across sectors, across industries and being, you know I'm not 40 yet, leading an agency as a black woman in one of the most competitive cities in the world it's very clear to me, like I'm, you know, doing something great, but I have to be honest with you.
00:26:08
Speaker
I didn't really realize that until people like sit down and say, can you realize this moment that you're in? Like you're doing really well. And, and then you look at the data and you're like, wow, half of businesses are failing after four to five years. And you're, you're like,
00:26:24
Speaker
we've beat the odds. So to me, it's like those moments when you can reflect and say, wow, we beat the odds and that's a win. And I truly, truly embrace that. And I'm so proud of it.
00:26:35
Speaker
And I'm proud of our team for, you know, sticking with me through some low points, which we can get to, um to get here. But it's really, to me, I hope that I can set an example for others.
Self-Funding Success
00:26:48
Speaker
I, people call me and and i give my number out and I'm always giving out free advice and, I know my accountant's like, it shouldn't be free, but I'm always trying to help because you want to see more people get into this.
00:27:01
Speaker
Like the whole point isn't for me to be, you know, this dynamic black woman leaning. this should be a whole bunch of black women owning and running agencies. But there are a lot of barriers to entry when you think about financing something like this. Like I completely used my savings There were times I thought about using my 401k and I was like, nope, I'm not going to do that.
00:27:24
Speaker
But there are times when you have to think really hard about how you're going to sustain something like this and how are you going to have a consistent cash flow and payroll process.
00:27:35
Speaker
These are things that are like really hard. And you see a lot of founders do it for as long as they can. And then it's like, I have to go back in house. I have to go back to the security on the inside.
00:27:47
Speaker
And I'm not writing that off for me in any way. But I do think there needs to be more resources to help founders, especially in service based industries. Yeah. A lot of like grant opportunities and everything, they're very product focused.
00:28:02
Speaker
So when you see a lot of you know, new opportunities popping up and it's thinking beyond venture capital, because that might not be the right move for me. But how do we help, you know, a small business get a bank loan?
00:28:16
Speaker
When I look at the stats, they're all stacked against me. So, you know, being able to finance this on my own was a really... big win for me and something I'm really proud of. and And to be able to sustain and be profitable over the years and create opportunities for myself.
00:28:35
Speaker
Like you and I met, you know, we were at Art Basel. I wouldn't even dream of doing something like that in my 20s, you know? And it's just like, whether I met Cannes or you know, going to these events and really immersing myself in the industry that I love. Those are all opportunities that I've been able to create through this business and through the amazing support of our clients.
Email Marketing Strategy
00:28:57
Speaker
So I'm, I'm truly, truly thankful. And I think when you think about highs, it's like our client wins really, really you We just, it lights us up every day. I really don't know what to say. Like when you see a client and you're working through their bio and they're getting their headshots done and they're like, what is all of this for? And then you see them like in print or.
00:29:21
Speaker
You see them on air. It's like that moment of connection when they're like, wow, you really helped me to find the story, tell it in a really amazing way to an audience we didn't know that we could reach.
00:29:35
Speaker
That's a win for us. And we have that every day with our clients. So I wake up, I get to do what I love. I get to help people, like you said, like we get to help them be their best selves. And then we get to help introduce them to the world through media at a time when media is really changing.
00:29:53
Speaker
So this is the win-win for me every day. yeah I love that. I love that. And I love that you shared, by the way, that you were self-funded. I've also been always very vulnerable and transparent about every business I've started. Five now.
00:30:07
Speaker
We're all self-funded. And I was coming from a corporate job where I was making less than $50,000. So to be clear, it wasn't like i had a huge savings account or a bunch of money saved up. But If you're willing and able to bootstrap and do things and and believe in yourself, I believe it's possible to see a huge, um you know, a huge win um come from from that dedication. But I know it's scary for a lot of people and I do do understand and I'm always also very honest about the fact that I didn't have a family to support. It was just me. If I failed, it was just me. And there's um there's that's different, of course, but I love that you shared that.
00:30:46
Speaker
Every Tuesday, I send La Liftoff, a curated email to my list filled with business tips, tricks, tools, deals, and sometimes I even tuck little gifts in there. I've been sending an email a week for nearly five years, so you may be wondering about my email marketing secret weapon. Well, the answer is Flowdesk.
00:31:05
Speaker
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Personal Challenges and Confidence
00:31:24
Speaker
Okay. Let's talk about what you would say has maybe been an unexpected low point of the journey. What did you, what what has happened that maybe you didn't see coming? And if you could just warn one other person about it, you would be like, be prepared for for this.
00:31:40
Speaker
I kind of mentioned some of it in the lead up, you know, And it's around like your identity and who you are. i think I went into this with so much of my identity rooted in a particular job title or particular company that I worked for. And I'm like, oh, if I have that, you know, I've made it.
00:32:02
Speaker
And before that, it was like, oh, I have to get into my dream college. And then before that, it was like, I've got to get these grades. Like I've always had these markers. And for me, the hardest part is really understanding your self-worth, hands down.
00:32:18
Speaker
I think you have an idea of like, oh, I'm a confident person. But as an employee, that's one thing. It's like, hey, these are your deliverables.
00:32:29
Speaker
Deliver on it. You can you know deliver well above and above beyond that. But like you're often on right? on a map And on deliverables that are set for you, the role of an entrepreneur and of a founder, we have to set our own course. And there's so much uncertainty with that. Am I making the right choice? Is this the right way to go?
00:32:53
Speaker
Did I do the right thing? Did I hire the right person? Did I assign the right task? um Did I take on the right client? Can I do it? Can I land this coverage? Do I have, you know, do I have it in me?
00:33:05
Speaker
And you wake up every day with, I want to say a thousand different points of insecurity. And you're working through that on your own.
00:33:15
Speaker
And even if you have a team, you're not always going to vocalize that. So for me, the hardest part was the feeling of isolation and being a founder, because so much of like,
00:33:29
Speaker
my identity was like, oh, Chanel made it. She's working in corporate. And then my family's like, well, what's going on? Are you okay? And it's just like, I have to show them that I'm okay. And maybe if I hide some of the challenges I'm going through, they'll be more comfortable with where I am. So taking a big leap like that, the hard parts, it's just like battling your own like vulnerability and some of the insecurities you may feel as any entrepreneur will feel when they step out to do their own thing.
00:33:58
Speaker
And then knowing your worth because you will always tend to undercount and undersell your capabilities, your value. I did that in the beginning. i'm like, oh, well, i don't worry about it. And it was like forever until I got like my attorney and my infrastructure in place. And now I have like an operations lead. And they were like,
00:34:18
Speaker
You were on site for a whole day. That's time is money. And it was just like, oh, I don't want to, you know, it was really hard for me to say that my time is money and my time is valuable and here's how much it costs.
Overcoming Money Hang-ups
00:34:33
Speaker
That's a hard thing. And then, you know, worrying so much about a no. You know, I always said when I started this business, what's the worst that can happen? i started it saying that.
00:34:44
Speaker
But then when I went into each client engagement and you have to talk numbers, I didn't necessarily carry that over. And I was just like, I don't want to upset. Anybody. and I don't, you know, I'm non-confrontational by nature. So I'm like, how do I just make sure everybody's comfortable with the numbers?
00:35:01
Speaker
But in that approach, you're not necessarily commanding your worth. And if you're starting out behind the eight ball in the beginning, it's going to set you back. So that was a hard piece for me. And for advice for those who are getting in, if you know that's your challenge point,
00:35:16
Speaker
put the infrastructure around you to support you in that. So for me, it was just like, I remember I would sit on an invoice for months and I was just like, oh, I don't want to, don't want to send the invoice.
00:35:27
Speaker
And the minute you hire someone on your team to handle it for you, it's just like, oh, it's one less thing off your plate, but also it's like, that's the point that's giving you the most tension yeah And being able to give that to someone you trust to help you manage it was a huge thing. So understanding what you're struggling with and bringing in support with that.
00:35:49
Speaker
yeah And i think for your worth, it's like you're, it's therapy, quite frankly. i think- You need a lot of it. but Yeah. And I mean, I hear, you know, that there's two important nuggets I want to highlight from everything you just said, um isolation and support.
00:36:06
Speaker
And they're related, right? But what the first thing you were talking about was how, you know, you can start to feel like you've got to put on this brave face and let your family and friends think you're okay when in reality you might be struggling a little bit.
00:36:21
Speaker
But you don't feel like it's okay or safe to say that because you don't want them to worry about you. And I think any of us who have gone out on our own can relate to that. and And I think it's so important to highlight that if you're feeling that, you're not alone.
00:36:33
Speaker
and It is important to find people that you can put around you that you can confide in, that you can trust in, that you can be vulnerable with and be like, here's what's really going on. And and the same with the the money and the worth, right? Like if you feel like you're not worthy, ah love what you said. I'm always like hire a bookkeeper. If this is our point of contention, if this is our sticky spot, how do we get out of it?
00:36:54
Speaker
One is we're going to work on the mindset around it, but also can we put that, can we either systemize it, automate it so that it's easy or hand it over to someone whose sole job is to send out invoices. So I love that you recommend that.
00:37:07
Speaker
And I couldn't agree more. I mean, hiring my first business consultant was how I first started to get over and and and really just recognize that I had a money hang up. And I was living in a scarcity mindset. I'd been running four, by that point, four successful multi-six-figure businesses and I had a money hang up.
Setting Personal Boundaries
00:37:25
Speaker
So when i got when I did the work to overcome like what where do these limiting beliefs come from? What is this scarcity all about? And recognize how it was impacting me. I went out and secured my first multi-six-figure deal.
00:37:37
Speaker
Because all of a sudden I didn't care. Like you said, like I have to, we had to release ourselves from what's the worst that can happen. They say, no, I don't care. You know? And that is a, that is a powerful shift that happens as a business owner.
00:37:52
Speaker
It really is. And I'm so glad you said, you know, scarcity mindset, like coming into this, if I came in with an abundance mindset, it would have been a game changer, but it was just like, I was very scared of like upsetting the apple cart. And I was just like, Oh, I don't want to mess it up.
00:38:12
Speaker
And I can't agree with you more when the shift happens. You literally, you instantly see, know, not only the business change, but how you carry yourself in the world.
00:38:23
Speaker
You know, i think what comes with that shift for me is boundaries too. I think we talked about relationships and I think in building strong relationships,
00:38:35
Speaker
where people feel they can be vulnerable and they can share, you also have a lot of unlimited access to your time. And that was something that I struggled with because i was like, oh, I don't want to set up a boundary. And it feels like a hard, hard boundary.
00:38:53
Speaker
And you start to learn like you have to have just the perforated boundaries sometimes. That's just like, this is my time. And the time I like understood my worth and like slowed down on responding to emails in the middle of the night, like there was just a time when I'm like, it's okay if I respond to something in a day, it's it's okay.
00:39:16
Speaker
um And my my own mental health improved from that. And I think yeah I just do better work when I set boundaries and, you know, I say, here's Here's a realistic timeline, not the timeline I think that you want, but something that we can really deliver solid work
Nurturing Personal Relationships
00:39:34
Speaker
in. And, you know, that's my that's been the hardest in shifting to understand what my real boundaries are.
00:39:42
Speaker
um You know, my ah trainer, one of my my very good friends, he said, you know, you set your – can't take credit for it, but he said he he said to me, you set your – um boundary as your breaking point.
00:39:56
Speaker
And that described me in so many ways where I would wait until I'm breaking down to say, Hey, I have a boundary. And I think a lot of founders do that where they're like, I think I, you know, I can keep this going until this point. And that's the, that's the absolute max, but that's not your boundary. Like that's your breaking point.
00:40:17
Speaker
So written point yet I think it's a key distinction to make. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, would you say, I'm curious what your take on this, but how do you, if you don't know what your boundaries are yet, like if you haven't been in business for very long yet, or you haven't had anyone take you to your breaking point, how do you know what your boundaries are?
00:40:39
Speaker
I think, you know, I kind of nodded to therapy and that was really helpful for me. You know, I didn't realize some of the key themes of me.
00:40:51
Speaker
You know, I can do ah a document and brief a client on these are the key talking points for us. But what are the key themes that keep showing up in my life? You know, when you think about and dissect your own relationships, both personally with family and and life, and then professional, you're going to notice some key themes there around how you respond, how you engage, and then what you find hurtful.
00:41:18
Speaker
There are going to be some key themes. through lines across your personal and professional life. And for me, once I got to the heart of that and understood that about myself, you can say, hey let me put this protective shield around my time and my energy.
00:41:35
Speaker
And you start to say, what personalities are not helpful for me? And that's a really hard thing because you might be completely surrounding yourself with takers and folks that are just completely draining you and they're not pouring back into your cup.
00:41:50
Speaker
And for me, it's very important to say, you know, who do I light up around? Like when they come in or I see them, I'm like, look at this. Like those are the folks you want around.
00:42:01
Speaker
And if you like wake up one day and you have a bunch of people around you that you're not sure will stick up for you and fight for you it's going to put you in ah in a really depleted place. And I feel like we're in the nature of a job where everyone will need something from us. It's not a bad relationship build.
00:42:22
Speaker
But PR, it's like, I'm in crisis. Chanel fix it. My brand reputation needs help. Chanel fix it. How do I respond to this media inquiry? Thank you. Okay. It's like, it's always on and you can get hundreds of emails that are asks a day. And there was a time, i it was like weeks and I didn't see like not one email that said like, what can we do for you?
00:42:47
Speaker
So that's why I say to people like, Checking in, especially when we know the environment and the times we are in are really, really trying.
00:42:57
Speaker
yeah Checking in on people that you care about deeply is important. And i know I'm horrible with it. I am that person. Please know if you're listening to this, I love you. But I respond to text messages like two, three days later.
00:43:11
Speaker
and my friends that love me are like, we know. We know you. You know? Yeah. But when I, but when I show up, I'm there.
00:43:21
Speaker
It's funny you say that because I made it a vow to myself and a few people who have gotten text messages from me recently will be hearing this and go, Oh, that makes sense. But I vowed to myself recently that when I think of someone, I'll message them.
00:43:33
Speaker
Even if we haven't shouted in years, I'm like, you crossed my mind. I'm just sending you a little note. And, um, so I've been doing that a little bit lately and it's been so lovely. Um,
00:43:44
Speaker
But it it unfortunately, it stemmed from a situation where I didn't do that with someone that we've lost. And so I was like, okay, I'm not going to put myself in that scenario again. i'm gonna When I think about someone, I'm going to say something.
00:43:55
Speaker
And, you know, give myself the ability to make it short and sweet so it doesn't have to take up too much time because I'm like you. i'm like My friends know sometimes I'll circle back around to that in about a week.
00:44:07
Speaker
You have to love bomb folks, you know, and just like, hey, I don't need anything. Just say hi. And, you know, I'm always kiki-ing with my friends. I just, I miss them every day.
00:44:21
Speaker
And I think we don't say that enough. And then when you get older, life happens. Like you have to take care of parents, you have to take care of kids, you have to take care of dogs and pets and life happens.
00:44:33
Speaker
And it doesn't mean that you love someone any less, but it is like, you don't want to miss that moment to say, i love you or I was thinking about you because i think, you know, the the closer we get to midlife, you start to see these unexpected moments where we lose people that are so very dear to us.
00:44:55
Speaker
Yeah. um And you don't want to leave anything unsaid.
Storytelling in PR
00:44:58
Speaker
Yeah. No, we don't. I have two more quick questions for you. I feel like because you are such a storytelling expert and, you know, PR powerhouse, and I would love for you to share perhaps one hot take on what you think from a PR perspective.
00:45:17
Speaker
What's your hot take on what makes a really great story? Hmm. I think there's a lot of things there, you know? um I feel like in, even now we're talking a lot about me, which is an uncomfortable ah space to be in Um, but when we're working with startups and entrepreneurs, I'm like, the story is it's always you.
00:45:42
Speaker
And, you know people are really interesting and people want to read about people. So oftentimes, you know, folks will say, this is the story. This product can do X and this is great. And I'm like, but how does it impact people and what's the voice behind it?
00:46:00
Speaker
So anytime you can have a leader that you can really bring their personal story to the forefront, um, it's founder culture everywhere. um Really take advantage of that when you're thinking about how do we tell this? The spokesperson is really important. So i always say fine find the story um by looking at the personalities and the people that are in your org and who's best to tell this.
00:46:25
Speaker
And how even can your personal story and your commitment and your values tie into what it is that's ultimately your goal? um And beyond business metrics, like what is the ultimate goal that you're striving for?
00:46:41
Speaker
And then, you know, I think the other thing is just, there's many things, but I think everything's not news, but I do think figuring out when you find something that is newsworthy and you're like, hey, we want folks to know about this, I think we're seeing now just the shift in how people are getting their news and figuring out the right platform, the right place, the right time to tell something is really important.
00:47:09
Speaker
So, you know, it could be something that belongs in a trade publication, or it could be something that would be way more compelling if we did like a filmed segment four.
00:47:20
Speaker
So I think, you know, gone are the times where it's like, I want to be everywhere, you know, because I think people realize with how media is fragmenting, with how things are consolidating at the same time, having one story in 100 different places is can be challenging if it isn't super, super newsworthy. So understanding like which outlet, what platform, what audience is going to do the most for me.
00:47:49
Speaker
And i tell my clients to think about like, what are the long-term goals? Like if you're trying to fundraise, if you're trying to exit a business, if you're trying to do something, um you know, even fundraising for a nonprofit, like where is Will you find the audience that you're really trying to connect with to move in the way that you want to move? So, you know, thinking about not just like, how do we get press, but how do we put together an intentional approach to reach the right people? And then how do we create kind of a megaphone within the brand?
00:48:25
Speaker
You know, how can we use some of those media tactics to say, how do we tell news on our own social platforms? um So I think it's, it's really important to think about.
00:48:39
Speaker
storytelling in the sense of like, what is the story? How do we put empathy and a human touch and connection to it? And then what's the right place? How do we direct this intentionally? How do we make sure we spend a lot of time on messaging and narrative work with our clients?
00:48:57
Speaker
Because just being there isn't enough. It's like once you're there and you secure it, and if you have a PR partner that can help you get there, what are we saying? And sometimes people have like one talking point and I'm like, that's not enough.
00:49:10
Speaker
Like, what are you trying to convey? You know, what are the wins? What have you struggled with? What's the tension? the same things we're talking about now. And like, where do you want to go? And without that compass, it's, it's really hard to get consistent press coverage.
00:49:28
Speaker
You'll see people with like these spurts, but I always say you don't want to just have like one blurb a year.
Future Plans and Gratitude
00:49:33
Speaker
Like that's not going to do anything for your business, but understanding how do we build, you know, momentum and spurts throughout the year.
00:49:41
Speaker
Yeah. We got to take our vitamins daily the analogy that comes to my mind. Like one vitamin one day is not going to make an impact, but if you take it daily, you know, if you get press compounding, that's when we can start to change the narrative around a brand or a story.
00:49:58
Speaker
one hundred percent 100%. I love that. And then we we chatted a little bit about about limiting beliefs. And so the title of this podcast, This or More, was born from a ah ah recurring conversation I was having with clients where we would reach this precipice, we would have this huge win in the business, and then they'd come to the next call and be like, oh no, what if it all goes away? What if this client's upset with me? What if I lose this, right? And so this concept of what I would always say to them was, no, no, no, it's this or more. Like whatever just happened, we just landed at your biggest client yet.
00:50:32
Speaker
Tomorrow, we're going to land another one. Or we just, you know, hit this $200,000 milestone tomorrow, $300,000. Like it's this or more. And it's it's this it's the undying belief that no matter what happens, like we're going to just continue to go up the mountain and continue to have more and more successes. And so I'd love to know from you,
00:50:53
Speaker
What has been or what is a this or more moment for you? So like, is there something you've accomplished recently and and we can help cheer you on to getting to that next next next point in the journey?
00:51:05
Speaker
Oh, I love that. And it's beautiful. I think we we talked about, you know, that moment when you're like, if it doesn't work out, there's there's more out there for me, you know? And I think having that perspective really helps to take some of the pressure that we naturally will put on ourselves.
00:51:25
Speaker
And we will put that pressure on harder than anyone else could. um So I think about that. And one of the things that I've been working on is like when you're looking at the business and saying like, what do we do that is really notable? And like, what...
00:51:42
Speaker
what's our special sauce? And I think one thing that we love to do his work with founders um and startups um and helping them figure out both like, what us what does the future look like? And I feel like there are a lot of accelerator programs and things out there, but I don't think people think about the importance of PR in this building, scaling,
00:52:07
Speaker
time for a business. So interestingly enough, you know for us, we're like, how can we give brands communications, infrastructure, both for internal communications, external communications, how are they talking to their investors and get them significant press that's going to help them move the needle for their business.
00:52:28
Speaker
And we were able to do this. We have clients that have had billion dollar valuations that went from having no, you know, zero raise to, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars. So it's exciting for me to see that. But at the same time, I'm like, I want to do that more.
00:52:46
Speaker
um So we have our studio that we're launching this year. It's our in-studio model. And really it's all about bringing, you know, founders together and,
00:52:58
Speaker
finding ways to help them tell their stories in more compelling ways. So we'll be launching that later this year. um we do it anyway, but it goes back to like recognizing what we do and then saying, how do we reach more people with it? So we're formalizing it into ah structured program um where people can apply. And I think that's going to be You know, a lot of fun. And I know a lot of founders, you know, listen in on here. And, you know, if that's something that's of interest, definitely find us and um we'll be launching kind of our broader application later this year. So that's to me like the way to pay it forward.
00:53:36
Speaker
um but also tapping into something we love to do and we do really well. So I'm looking forward to it. How fun. I love that. I love that evolution. ah so cool. Well, Chanel, I adore you. and you know As we alluded, we we met sitting down in a Gucci store in Miami taking a load off.
00:53:56
Speaker
And I was like, oh, she's she's my person. <unk>re We're going to be friends. um Will you tell everybody where they can find you on the internet? That was the best break I ever took. you You know how it is when you're like, my feet are killing me.
00:54:13
Speaker
They're starting to swell. i need to sit down. And I sat down next to the best person and we just instantly connected. And I'm so glad we're we're here and we're friends and fast friends. And I also just am so grateful to you for creating this space.
00:54:28
Speaker
Yeah. for people to listen in and hopefully something I've shared can be helpful. And if you want to reach me, find me our website, it's www.cjcinsights.com.
00:54:41
Speaker
I'm on Instagram at Chanel CJC. can find me or at CJC insights. um Yeah, we're there and we'd love to see you. We're also on LinkedIn as well. So I look forward to To seeing you all in the DMs.
00:54:57
Speaker
Yes, stay connected. you are um You're such a light, but you're also obviously a powerhouse and you know so much about storytelling and communication. So please please ah follow her and get engaged with their content. And especially if you're someone who feels like you are underrepresented in the market, Chanel is your gal.
00:55:15
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you so much for your support. Appreciate it. Of course. Okay, I'll see you soon. See you. Bye.