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How to Get Booked on Podcasts w/ Christina Lenkowski
107 Plays5 months ago
Have you ever wondered how to get on other people’s podcasts? We're spilling the secrets. In this episode I’m joined by podcast pitch pro Christina Lenkowski, here to teach you how to get on podcasts so you can increase your brand awareness & scale your business.
We chat:
- How Christina went from tourism PR to being a podcasting strategist
- The 3 types of publicity you can achieve and which one matters most
- How podcasting helps with sales
- How to get on a mic in front of your target audience
- What a GOOD podcast pitch looks like - the do’s & don’ts
- Taking advantage of “the pitch sprint” method
- What makes a GREAT podcast guest
Connect with Christina Lenkowski
Follow Tiffany on Instagram
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Podcasting
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to This or More, a wild entrepreneurial podcast adventure for bold and brave creatives like you. I'm Tiffany Napper, your host, holistic business coach, corporate music industry dropout, a seasoned five-time multi-six figure entrepreneur, yoga instructor, and your go-to gal for heart-to-heart coffee chats. On this show, we're not just here to share stories. We're here to ignite a fire within you and make you realize that the reality you envision is just the tip of the iceberg. You're wildly capable of achieving that reality and so much more. So my friends, grab your cup of inspiration, settle in, and let's dive into another inspiring episode of This or More.
00:00:44
Speaker
Have you ever wondered how to get on other people's podcasts? I'm so excited to have Podcast Pitch Pro, or as she calls herself, your podcasting pitch broker, k Christina Lenkowski on the show today. She's going to teach us how to get on podcasts so that you can increase your brand awareness and scale your business. Welcome to the show, Christina. Oh, Tiffany, you know I am super, super jazzed about being able to talk with you today and talk with your audience. I love your show and I'm just ready. I'm just ready. Let's ah let's get into it. Let's get into it. So you have an Instagram post, and I love, by the way, that you're a nine gritter, um yeah but we'll come up with another story for another day. But you have an Instagram post that has a headline that says, what if your ideal audience heard you on all of their favorite podcasts?
00:01:33
Speaker
here And I was just like, oh, that's good. Because I think anybody who sees that could immediately identify the benefits of of that story, of of being heard by all of their audiences, their target clients' favorite podcasts, right? so It definitely reinforces the bottom line of like why it's so important to get on podcasts. So as a podcast pitch strategist, podcast pitch pro, all of these clever titles you have for yourself. Um, I know what you do is you help entrepreneurs get seen and get heard, but tell me a little bit about what you were doing before
Christina's Journey to PR Success
00:02:09
Speaker
podcasting. What was your, what was your life like before you got into specializing in podcasts?
00:02:13
Speaker
into this. Absolutely. So I came from a PR background. um And I grew up always thinking I was going to be a journalist. Like I was like, so sure. That's what I was going to do. And I remember my mom at some point, mothers always know best. They really always do. It was like, i really do maybe could go into PR. And I was like, you don't even know me. Like, i you know, I was like, so like, you don't get it, mom, like, you don't get it. And so when I was in in school in college, I worked for the paper there. And I actually decided I didn't like it. um that That wasn't what I wanted to do. And so I was kind of at a little bit of a crossroads, I traveled for a bit and then
00:02:57
Speaker
When I got back home, I was offered two jobs, and one was as a copy editor for a newspaper, and then one was um in the PR department for a comics company. And I ended up going the PR route, and I haven't looked back since. And so I worked both in-house and for agencies. Um, well over a decade plus before I had my daughter and then decided I didn't want to be, um, you know, senior account executive Veen. Um, my life was kind of always, always in that, in that realm. Um, it's interesting because what I did is I kind of.
00:03:36
Speaker
went into this online world and was like, I'm going to have a course like this is it like I'm really it I'm going to have a course I'm going to and I was going to talk or I did I did create a course all about tourism PR that was my particular area of expertise.
Challenges and Breakthroughs in Marketing
00:03:51
Speaker
And um It was quite the process, as anyone who's done a course knows. um you know It was quite the thing to do that. But when it came time to actually promote and market the course, I just followed the steps that I was given. And none of those steps at the time, and ah and none of those steps included PR, publicity, anything like that. it was What were they? Can you share? Yeah, absolutely. it was um
00:04:19
Speaker
dump a bunch of money in ads, have that go to a webinar, have that live webinar go to a series of emails, and then obviously you're a millionaire. And that was a- Just like that, it's so simple. Just like that, just like that. And I was in, I was like, yep, let's do it, let's go, this is it. And I had this big launch, I did it in that way, and I sold maybe two. or something, you know, nowhere near making up for that money or time or anything like that that I had put into it. And I remember my husband was like, so what are we doing here? And I was like, you don't like just like you don't get it. Like, wait, wait, wait, wait. um So.
00:05:01
Speaker
I decided the next time I was going to launch and kind of moving forward, I was going to put peace I was going to be doing publicity for the course. And so I started to take all these skills of pitching that I had and pitch myself onto podcasts that were full of that ideal audiences I wanted to get in front of. And the difference I saw in my business was night and day, just people buying my course right away, people asking me to speak, people having me come and consult all these other things. that just weren't available to me. And it was because they were hearing me on these platforms that they were already listening to. um And so when COVID hit, tourism, as we all know, took a huge, huge hit, of course, in that arena. And I was already kind of starting to want to make a pivot. And so that just pushed me full force into doing this work. um And originally, I was just teaching people how to pitch themselves on the podcasts. But I just had so many people that were like,
00:05:57
Speaker
Could you just do it? Do it for me? Yeah, that I ah started out. Of course, it was just me at the beginning, and now we've built to the agency we have today. I love it. I love it. And you know, you and I have a similar journey. I also started off in journalism working for Gannett, you know, in a newspaper role as an editor, actually for a weekly paper. That was my first, like, yeah talk about just like dumping, jumping into the deep end. yeah And, uh, and then after just a year of just wearing every hat, I crossed over to what at the time we called the dark side, which was PR. Yes, exactly. I know. and never i know like Yeah. Yeah, all of my fellow journos are always like, you made the right like, they're always like, you you win at the right time, like, etc. Yeah, but absolutely, it was totally like the dark side at the time. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But now I mean, it's evolved, it's evolved tremendously. And, and and i I mean, even podcasts weren't a thing back then. when I was doing what I was doing. So
00:06:54
Speaker
So let's set the record straight just for a minute. If someone's listening, they're hearing you know your story, they know a little bit about my background and my story, and they might be like, they might have a definition of what they think PR and publicity
Understanding PR and Media Types
00:07:05
Speaker
is. But what what would you want people to know about what PR is and what publicity is? I think this is a great question because, like you said, people have such different definitions of what that word means, term means, et cetera. And so really how I break it down is there's three pillars of marketing, if you will. Owned, earned, and paid. um And owned are the things that you own, right? Your website, your social media channels, your podcast. Tiffany owns this podcast, right? Et cetera, that's her own channel.
00:07:40
Speaker
paid are shocker, the things that you pay for. So ads, maybe an influencer campaign, something along those lines where money is being exchanged. And then earned is what publicity falls into. And that is where you are on someone else's platform. providing value to their audience. No money is exchanged. That is true publicity, true PR, you are not paying for this opportunity. I can go on a whole soapbox about that. But um that is what true earned media is publicity is. And that's where if you're a guest on someone's show, if you're on TV, if you're on radio, if you do a, you know, article on a platform, something like that, all those are going to fall into those categories.
The Trust Factor in Earned Media
00:08:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And we know this because this is our background, but I don't know if it's, I don't know if it's as common knowledge or maybe it is if you're listening and you want to drop a comment and let us know, um, share with me, but you know, earned media carries so much weight and I think it carries even more weight now than it did a decade ago because paid it you know there was this like blurred line between what are you paying for and what are you getting based on the merit that you you know they want to feature you ah so what what made you kind of like hone in on podcasts as as like the earned kind of
00:09:04
Speaker
you know media of choice this is a great question and really it's because it's so accessible to literally everyone um you know i got my dad listening to podcasts and also my kids listening to podcasts you know what i mean so it's like everybody is able to find what works for them or what they're interested in in this medium and And what I think is so interesting, I mean, you you exactly teed it up, the stats around earned media compared to the other forms of marketing, people trust it 70% more than the other types of marketing that are out there because they trust who they're hearing from you from, right? They trust that person. And that so that's really important as well.
00:09:45
Speaker
um But, I mean, I think that it's so key to realize how many people miss out on this strategy. And they really only focus on the owned and the paid. um I was on a call yesterday with someone, as a matter of fact, and they were going through like all their sales stuff or, I don't know, something like that. And I was like, you you don't have any like you don't even have it as a thing on here. Right? and they were like oh Yeah, I guess I don't you know or whatever and it's just something that's so overlooked over and over again um But absolutely the stats are there people trust it more that is Where they want to get their information from and there's also a stat that I think I find this to be very true which is like 80% of people feel like they know a podcast host and their guest and And so I think that that's a really important stat. And this happens to me a lot. I'll be at an event, you know, or something and someone will come up to me and just start talking to me. And and and I love that, by the way, don't stop doing that. But I'll also be like, who are you? Like, i'm like, yeah like, they know so much about me. Exactly. Like, they're talking about stuff. And I'm like,
00:10:52
Speaker
i I'm sorry, and and what do you do, right? etc And you are. Exactly. And I think that that's such a powerful thing because it just talks to about how people feel like they really they really know you and they, um you know, want to have a real relationship with you. Right. Yeah. I mean, we talk about the like, no, and trust factor. This is it not new. And, um, and yeah, podcasting is ah is such a great way. It's the reason why I launched this podcast was because I knew I had stories I wanted to tell that were longer than the Instagram format. yeah And it allowed me to go deep and get vulnerable and tell my story. And so it happens to me as well. I'll walk into events where I think I'm going to go on going to know no one. yeah And someone will come up to me and know things about me that I'm like, wait, how do you know that? Oh yeah. I shared that. in a
Case Study: Liz Wilcox's Success
00:11:39
Speaker
Oh yeah yeah. Oh yes. Okay. I told the world that. My bad. But it's it's it's great. I love it as well. And it has it does reinforce this notion that like if you're struggling with brand awareness, if you're struggling with getting people to see you as a go-to expert, if you're struggling with people in that like, know, and trust factor, get on some podcasts. Get on them. Get out there and share your story. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, let's talk about, I would love to hear, do you have like ah can you share with us what's the biggest win that maybe you've seen for yourself or for a client that was the result of being on a podcast? Absolutely, I mean, as you know, there's so there's so many wins that I can share, but one that I particularly love to share is one of our clients, Liz Wilcox, when we first started working together, she was simply doing one-to-one copywriting work, but she knew that she wanted to start a digital product.
00:12:32
Speaker
Um, she was like, I want to have a digital product. I want to be able to not be doing solely one-to-one work, you know, et cetera. And so she launched her email marketing membership. And to date, she has almost 5,000 members. And this is in a couple of years. Okay. A couple of years time. She does. She has never paid a dime for ads. All she does is guest on podcasts, speak at events, and have a affiliate a robust affiliate program as well. yeah and i and And because of this, she was able to retire her one-on-one services absolutely you know within, I would say, a year to two years of launching that membership.
00:13:13
Speaker
And that means that she's able to, by the way, take the summer off to go do Survivor and be on Survivor. She's able to spend time with her kid. you know They live by Disney World. She goes to Disney World a lot, you know stuff like that. And I just think like that's the type of wins we're all looking for. right It's like she was totally able to transition the way she did business. And a huge part of that, and she's the first one to say this, was by showing up on podcasts over and over and over again and not being caught up in how big it was. or, you know, this type of stuff. She was just like, are these the people I need to get in front of? And she just showed up over and over and over again.
00:13:54
Speaker
Ooh, that's good. That's good. Because I want to dive into, obviously I would love for you to share some tips with our listeners who who are like, okay, great. I want to get on more podcasts. What do I do? But I think what you just said is so good because well, number one, there's like what over a million podcasts nowadays. Oh yeah. what Yes, absolutely. A lot. Okay. yeah So first step is like, when people, when we say get on podcasts and they're like, Oh, where do I start? You just gave them a great tip. It's like, look for the podcasts who speak to your target audience. It's what you did. That's what your client, move for your clients, right? If we were to get more granular, any other suggestions you'd give for them regarding like how to find? Absolutely. Absolutely. I think a big mistake a lot of people make is they try to get in front of their peers.
00:14:41
Speaker
So they don't focus on their customers. They focus on who are my peers. And that's fine to a certain extent. Like I totally understand you want to up your thought leadership. You want to be maybe more well known amongst your peers. Absolutely. But when it comes to like, what is that ultimate goal? Is it to up your thought leadership and your visibility amongst your peers or is it to make money? Right? And I think that like that's where you kind of have to be able to to determine like what that end goal is that you're kind of looking for.
Targeting the Right Podcasts
00:15:12
Speaker
And one of the ways that I kind of recommend doing this is take someone else that has a similar ideal customer to you. Okay? So look at somebody. They don't have to be a competitor. Maybe they are, but maybe it's just more so that they they have the you know an audience that you would be interested in.
00:15:28
Speaker
plug their name into Apple Podcasts, plug their name into Spotify, see what shows they have been on, and then see what shows are like that. So, you know, if you scroll down to Apple Podcasts, Apple Podcasts is my player of choice, so that's what I watch all my stuff on, or watch listen to all my stuff on. But if you scroll down to the bottom, they have a they might you might also like, or people that follow this podcast also listen to. That's a great place for you to be sourcing information, but don't sleep on those shows that you're similar ICA person was already on. You just need to come with a different topic, right? You just need to come with some different ideas. It doesn't mean that you can't be on that show. I've been on plenty of shows where there been have other people talking about podcast pitching. I just come with a different perspective on it. Sure. Yeah. I love that. Okay. So what would be, you know, ah let's just get it. Let's just get into some of like what to do and what not to do. Yes.
00:16:25
Speaker
because we've probably both seen it all. yeah editor <unk> with podcast What should they definitely not include in a podcast pitch? We'll start it there. Let's yeah, I love that. I think that well, one thing I'll say is we are able to get the bookings we get for our clients because we take the time to research the shows that we are pitching. So do not go about this with a what we call the spray and pray yeah method, right? um You know Tiffany's seen this, she's gotten these emails yeah over and over again. And that is just where clearly someone scraped a list
00:17:04
Speaker
of podcast hosts and then just sends everyone the exact same pitch. um No personalization, no thought to why it's the right fit for their audience, et cetera. And as you can imagine, doesn't work very well. um Yeah, delete. An immediate delete, an immediate trash, right? Type of thing. And maybe if you do get some yeses, they're probably not on the shows that you're really wanting to be in front of, right? um So it's not, for that, it's not as much what's in the pitch as much as it is like the approach around it. You want to take your time and really think, look at a show, listen to part of it. You don't need to, you know, i'm not I'm not like, you need to listen to five episodes. No, like and listen to part of the episode. I really recommend the like the first five minutes, the last five
Crafting Successful Podcast Pitches
00:17:52
Speaker
minutes, and then find a little chunk in the middle
00:17:55
Speaker
um and listen to it, see what language you pick up. um That's like a really interesting thing for me is I love to hear how podcast hosts describe their audience, like who's listening, and then I mirror that in the pitch. um So what you really want to do is just make sure that you're not simply sending a generic pitch. And I think that another thing I like to say is don't also just send a one sheet. This is a thing I hear from hosts a lot. Like you will hear me. I'll get on this. I'll get on a lot of spicy soap boxes today, Tiffany, if you let me. But one that I definitely get on is don't let things like feeling like you need to have a one sheet hold you back from pitching. OK, I see this a lot from people. They talk to me a lot. They'll be like, well, I do want to start pitching, but I just don't have my one sheet ready. And I'm like,
00:18:42
Speaker
it It does not matter. like yeah We do that for our clients now, and it's it's just ah it's something that we have, and that's great. But when I first started pitching, I didn't have any of that stuff. It was literally just sending an email with solid pitch ideas, and it's a muscle. it's the it It's a muscle. The more you do it, the better you're going to get at it, the faster you're going to get at it, et cetera. But don't just think, oh, I have to send a one sheet, or I have to have these fancy things. No, you just need to send some solid ideas. Yeah. Oh, that's so good. And that's so true with any type of media, I will say. Yes. So true. And, you know, I always say like, give them a link to your website or your Instagram account. Absolutely. What you feel like is, but you know, backs up that here's who I am. so
00:19:27
Speaker
don't make them go searching for you. yeah like as not If I have to go Google you to figure out who you are, it's probably going to be enough for me. No, absolutely. I agree with you. A link to your website or a link to a social channel that you're active on, 100%. Those are great, great things to have in there but um or that you should have in there, I should say. But don't get hung up on these extras that you you don't need to have to get the bookings. It's really the pitch and really the the story ideas or the topic ideas that you want to that you're wanting to bring to the table.
00:20:01
Speaker
Yeah, okay, so that's a perfect segue. what What should we put in a pitch? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. First off, personalize it. So like I said, listen to a little bit of the episode. Give a genuine thought you had on something, right? Like if you're listening to 15 minutes of a show, something's gonna resonate with you in that timeframe, right? So put something in there that resonates. Drop a little bit about why you're such a badass, okay? Drop a little bit about what makes you awesome. Put in some of those credibility markers, right? And then you're going to go into, I like to say two to four really solid topics that resonate with their audience. This is key. You are not going on a show to talk about you. You are going on a show to provide value.
00:20:47
Speaker
to their audience. So be thinking about topics that make sense for that audience, for them to be able to to hear, um and that could be your story, that might be a little bit more tactical, like what we're doing here, we're talking about actual podcast pitches, really depends on what it is, but give some meat in there and put some real good, don't just bullet out, I can talk about marketing, I can talk about sales,
Strategies for Podcast Engagement
00:21:12
Speaker
no. i want I want you to get specific on what it is that you can talk about. Then I like to end with a simple thank you. you know Thank you so much. And if you want more information, let me know. Boom. There we go. There we go. Off to the races. Yep. I love that. Do you have a theory or or not a theory, but do you have like a best practice around how many you reach out to at a time or how follow ups and all of that? That's a great, great question. so
00:21:42
Speaker
As a general rule, the goal that I love everyone to have and I want everyone who's listening to set for themselves is to be on an average of two shows a month, okay okay? So I think that's a great goal that doesn't feel overwhelming in regards to doing too many podcasts or doing whatever. But on the flip side, at the end of the year, you'll have been on 24 shows, okay? That is a lot of places for you to be showing up in front of your ideal audiences. all right And a lot of people that won't have heard from you before that are going to get to hear from you for the first time. So what I do or what I kind of recommend when people are pitching themselves, of course, this is different for us at the agency, but when people are pitching themselves, what I recommend is doing a pitch sprint. And what I mean by that is once a quarter, you block off one to two full days.
00:22:33
Speaker
and you are just pitching, okay? And you're gonna send like 20, pitches, let's say, let's have that as our goal, with the goal of six of those becoming bookings, okay? um Because that'll average out to your two a month, right? Like kind of in general. um And for me, I find that to be a way easier way to do this than to be like every week I'm gonna send pitches or every whatever I'm gonna send pitches, because you won't. I'm just going to tell you right now you won't. yeah and know That's why we have all the clients to do this. Exactly. like they just they They don't have the time and the ability to be able to do that. I don't either. I get it. i you know Promoting yourself is the last thing you're thinking about when you're doing all this client work right or or you're trying to do sales. you know You're trying to do these other things.
00:23:21
Speaker
So um I really recommend that pitch sprint method and um you know having a list of shows that you keep ongoing when you come across shows that you think could potentially be a good fit for your audience. And then on that one or two days, that's when you're actually looking through those shows, seeing what shows might be like them, seeing if some of those make sense, some might not. And really at the end of the day, 20, 25 shows you're pitching out to you over those one to two days, again, with that goal of of having six become bookings. That's so good. I hope people are taking notes. Yes. So good. Okay. but Okay. Let's, let's go into like best case scenario. Great. We did our pitching sprint or we hired you yeah and we booked some podcasts, yeah right? What next? Like how do, what, what do you think sets apart a really great podcast guest and therefore a great episode that, you know, v translates into followers and fans and subscribers versus someone who's just meh.
00:24:19
Speaker
I have so many thoughts on this. I'm so glad you you asked this. But the first one is come prepared, y'all. Do not come into this thinking you're just going to wing it. And um I think that that's important. Of course, you're having a conversation. Of course, you want it to flow naturally. You're not going to script out what you're going to say or anything. But be ready to to talk. And one thing that I recommend to our clients is listen to an episode of the show within 48 hours before you're going to be a guest on the show. And I don't mean you have to be like sitting there taking notes. I was listening to Tiffany's show yesterday while I was taking a walk, right? And then I finished it up when I was in the car. So like it's not something
00:24:58
Speaker
That you have to be actively like whatever but it just gets you back in the zone of this show like I listen to tiffany show regularly But I haven't been a guest before so I want to come in and I want to look at it from like, okay What are the kinds of things that she's asking her guests? What are the kinds of things that she's talking about? What might be some stuff that she's going to tee up for me, right? So i'm coming at it from those points of view and also gets you high It also gets you really excited to be on the show as well. And the nice thing is when you hop on, or one thing I recommend is when you hop on, like before we hit record, I let Tiffany know, hey, I was just listening to that episode you had with Susie. It was awesome. Like here's one thing that I really loved about it. And that signals to the host that, hey, I'm paying attention. I didn't just show up here today. I didn't just wander into my office and like, we showed up on this, you know, on this call. Like it's like, no, I've been preparing.
00:25:51
Speaker
for this call. Like I've been doing my due diligence as well um for this. And so I don't know if you have any thoughts on like how it felt to even hear me be like, yeah, I was just listening to this and da da da da da. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny because, so I teach a lot of sales, right? And so a lot of what we do, when any conversation we're having in a way is conscious communication. Right. And so it reminds me now that you I didn't think about it at the time, but now that you see that I'm like, it's a lot like what I say when I'm teaching someone how to have a, uh, an authentic sales conversation.
00:26:25
Speaker
is if you if you're able to have that one little bit in the beginning that kind of kind of sets the tone, everybody everybody's guards come down, right? And i now the conversation flows. And now I felt, you know subconsciously, I'm sure that made me feel like, great. like She's going to be a great guest. This is going to be an easy conversation. I don't have to get in my head about it. you know And I've done my preparation as well. And if you are listening and you I also have a podcast of your own. One thing I recommend, I always write before an episode, right before I'm going to have an interview, I go stalk their social account. Well, you brought up the nine grid. I was like, oh girl, was it girl was on that Instagram? Like a hunt it's the same thing. Yeah. the same But I'll go, I'll go see if you've been on stories. I'll go look at your last like Instagram reels or TikToks because you're likely talking or, you know, I can see you on camera in that regard versus just like reading your website. Right.
00:27:15
Speaker
huh because it gets me or my into the feel of things, especially when you and I've met. So it's a little different. But if I had never met you before, and I wanted to understand more of the vibe of your personality so that when we do sit down to have that conversation, it can flow and I can I do a lot of mirroring as well. yeah Like, right. So so many good tips there. But Yes, it made me it definitely made me feel like great. This is gonna be a great conversation And you know, she's done her homework. Mm-hmm. I love that and I love hearing your perspective because I think it's like it's it's great to hear from me But it's like here from an actual podcast host like this is something that they again subconsciously, but they recognize Okay, great. We're we're going into this understanding each other um And that kind of goes into actually one of the best things that I think comes out of podcasts is in general, which is your host relationships. And I think that this is something that people sleep on a lot. And um this is a big thing that I talk to my clients about. And I will say that for many of my clients, when they're done with working with us, I will, you know, we we obviously have like a ah call, you know, a session or whatever. And they'll be like, my biggest surprise was the the relationships that have come out of the host.
00:28:22
Speaker
stuff. And I coach on this a lot. And I think when I coach on it, they're always like, okay. But then when they're like actually in it, they're like, Oh, dang, that ended up being like really, really great. And so I think that that's something to keep in mind is have your, come prepared, have your great podcast interview. And then at the end, I will do this to Tiffany. So Tiffany, get ready. Um, at the end we will hit end on record. We will be like, I will thank her so much for having me on the show because y'all the podcast hosts, you need to be grateful. Okay. To be on a show. Sometimes people will be like, I don't know. like I don't know. Sometimes people's attitudes like amaze me, but they'll be like, they should be thankful that I'm on their show. And I'm like, no, that's not how this works. Like, Yeah, cuz I know this works like you are not there so they they have built this audience They have cultivated this audience and you are showing up on it You're providing value and you are also going to promote it by the way, but you know You need to be coming as grateful But the next thing that I ask is the key and that is this is a hot tip for y'all I say now what value can I provide for you? and I come with ideas and
00:29:29
Speaker
right So I'm like, hey, I know that you have your course upcoming. Is there something that I can help teach in that? right yeah I might know that they have a mastermind coming up. Hey, is that something you would love to have me come teach about for me publicity in? right um Even at the very least, something that I can do that I think is a great win for everybody is say, hey, do you want to do an Instagram Live when this episode airs? um So that way you get in front of my audience vice versa, etc. Right? So there are a lot of things that you can be coming with and I I think that that's one of the best ways to make your podcast interviews go even further and we have seen our clients like I said They've been in masterminds. They've spoken at events their books have been the book club books because of this question um They have some of their greatest affiliate partners because of this question, right? So I think that that's such an important part of this as well. I
00:30:20
Speaker
That's so good. And you know, it's been a minute since I was a full-time publicist, but it just reminds me of something that I used to preach quite a lot. And so ah I think it's relevant to bring up again.
Extending Podcast Content Reach
00:30:30
Speaker
yeah It's what you said, but you know, getting the podcast interview, that's not the end of the road. Right. And so after you get the podcast interview, after you're a great guest, after you nurture that relationship, you know, we used to always preach like, how can we now get this in front of as many people as possible? Because the, you know, back in the day, I was doing more traditional press. I was like, if we're in you know LA times or what have you. The more hits that article gets, the more that reporter now really loves us because that reporter is getting judged by its boss by how many hits that article got on. such a way it is these days
00:31:07
Speaker
And so if you can think like that and you can think, what can I do to extend the longevity of this piece, but also you know make it even more successful, then and that's kind of what you're what you're sharing here as well. but But even more, can you talk a little bit about what you would suggest as best practices for, okay, great. You got the podcast interview. You were a great guest. now Yes. Uh, share it. yeah Okay. I know that that seems really basic. Like people will be like, yeah, obviously I would share a podcast that goes on it. No, you won't. Um, yeah. And and Tiffany's, uh, I know y'all can't see, but Tiffany is shaking her head because this is absolutely one of the biggest pet peeves of hosts that I come across is they have people on their guests. They have a great show, et cetera. And then that guest never shares the episode.
00:31:55
Speaker
yeah They don't share it on their social, they don't share it in their newsletter, they don't share it on their website. Like you don't necessarily, if you're not very active on social, then you don't have to do it on social, but send it in your e-newsletter, right? Like there are different ways to be doing that. yeah But the key is make sure you are sharing. And that is going to give you, again, keep that relationship with that host going, nurtured, et cetera, as well as with your own audience, like just reiterate that hey I know like look at me I'm on these other shows like I'm doing what I'm doing like I know what I'm talking about right etc so it's definitely a win-win for everybody the other thing is podcasts are a huge source of content huge source of content for you and your business
00:32:40
Speaker
I could take a podcast interview, easy, chop it up into 10 pieces of content. And that could be audio snippets, that can be reels, but that can also be blog posts, that can be e-newsletters, that can be other things. And so whenever people are struggling with content, I'm like, guests on podcasts. Or if you've even already been on a podcast, chop that thing up, make a blog post about it. um There's a lot of different ways that you can be using that. Um, and I know that for some of our clients, that's like their main source of the content that they post in their business because they're just working smarter, not harder. They're, they, they hired me to do this, you know, work for them. And then now they're going to use it as much as they possibly can. And by the way, that's led to new job offers for clients. That's led by them just sharing it. That's led to of course, new clients that maybe didn't hear the interview when it first came out, but they hear the snippet three months later. Right. A lot of different things there.
00:33:37
Speaker
Yeah, I love it. Yeah. Think longevity here. Don't think like one and done. Yes. Um, because there's really so much bandwidth to go and it really only serves, you know, we always say like if 10% of your audience saw it the first time you've got 90% of them who didn't see it. So post again, share again. And I love the tip of putting in your newsletter. We, you know, anytime I'm featured on another article or on another podcast, we just have a recurring slot in the email so that if something came out, yeah you know, hear Tiffany on so-and-so's podcast. And so it doesn't have to even be complicated, right? so You don't even, that I love that because that's a great example of not overcomplicating it, of just being like, hey, hear Tiffany talk on so-and-so's podcast about you literally put a sentence, right? And then you have the link there, boom, you're done. You know, it's not it's not some big, huge thing you have to be doing, but it's a win for you and the host when you do that. Yeah, totally.
00:34:32
Speaker
What do you think is, do you have do you have any like um ah thoughts around the future of podcasting? Do you think anything's going to change? Do you think anything's going to get better or worse?
Ethics and Diversity in Podcasting
00:34:43
Speaker
I'll tell you one thing I hope will change. And that is that if people are paying to be podcast guests, that that is being disclosed. um this is something that I really get worked up about if anybody's on my stories they'll hear me sometimes um go off on this but one thing I am seeing more and more um and we've noticed this in the agency is pitching shows and then being told there is a fee
00:35:06
Speaker
for our clients to be on the show. That is not publicity. That is an ad. Yeah, pay to play. Yeah. That is an ad. And the problem is there is no disclosing that that was paid for, that that is an ad, that that was sponsored, et cetera. I do not care at all if someone is doing a sponsored segment on a podcast, and that is clear that that is sponsored, paid for, et cetera. More power to you. That could be the perfect audience for you to be getting in front of, talking what you want to talk about, et cetera, right? yeah My problem is when shows are coming back and saying, it's going to cost $250,000. It's going to cost $1,000. It's going to cost $10,000 to have your client come on here. No.
00:35:48
Speaker
No. A, because that's crazy, but B, because, because um that is not publicity, and we actually have like a whole standard response we give when people do reply with that genuinely sometimes people don't know that. They don't necessarily know that they've now turned it into an ad. They don't come from a PR background. They don't come from this background in their mind. and i And I see it. But in their mind, they're like, well, I'm paying for this to be produced. I'm paying for this to get in front of whatever. So like if I'm having you on my show, you should be helping to supplement the cost of that. I understand that logic. But that is not what this is. And that is not what publicity is.
00:36:30
Speaker
and So that is a huge thing for me. So please know too that if if you ever hear one of my clients on a show or me on a show, you know that that is not a show that charges for people to be guests on their show um because we are very, very specific about that. But this happened with social media and it will happen with podcasts. You know, 10, 15 years ago, I don't remember exactly when it was, I did work at a PR agency see at the time though, when the FTC came down on social media and said, you have to be disclosing if this is an ad or sponsor or whatever, because the consumer doesn't know. The consumer doesn't understand that when you as an influencer are talking about this face cream, that it's not because you just love it. It's because you're also getting paid on the back end, right? And that's exactly what's happening with podcasts. And the same thing will happen with podcasts. And what that also means is a lot of people's credibility is going to get destroyed when people realize
00:37:27
Speaker
that they've either been paying to be a guest on shows or that they have been charging guests to be on their show, be on the show. Yeah. And it's so yeah I'm ready for that day. It's like if you're familiar, you know, again, I come from print journalism, so it's the difference between editorial and advertorial. Right. If you've ever seen an ad in a magazine, this happens a lot in fashion magazines where it looks like a spread, but at the top, it'll say paid advertisement by or you'll have something on there. You know, and that even kind of always ruffled my feathers a little because I was like, man, if you didn't know what to look for, you wouldn't realize every product on this page paid to be there versus a pure editorial where someone who writes for the magazine yeah tested these products and gave her honest opinion, you know, whatever. um But it's the same. and And I started noticing it in the TV world when I was leaving PR where I would pitch someone to be on a, you know, an afternoon noon segment or morning segment. They're still pretty highly regulated there. But
00:38:23
Speaker
some of these other shows where it would be pay to play and I was like, well, that's not publicity anymore. That's an ad and I'm not i'm not an advertising agent. Yeah, that's not what I do. Yeah, exactly. you know Exactly. oh and And as we know, you know credibility comes higher credibility comes from the organic earned media. I'm not trying to pay for it. so But I really do. um i wait I await the day when that when that becomes a thing where they have to be more transparent. Yes, i i I can't wait for that. i I hope that it's sooner rather than later. But in the meantime, I know that I sleep real well at night knowing that you know we're getting our clients on shows in the ethical right way that it is supposed to be done. um But you know I just hope that that's something that will change kind of in podcasts in general moving forward. Yeah.
00:39:09
Speaker
One more question I would love to ask you before we have to part ways, but like I know you're a big believer, and I love this about you. like Big believer in diverse diverse voices and underrepresented people like getting getting a microphone. Can you talk to me a little bit about where you see opportunities, what you think you see changing in that landscape, and and just you know a little pep talk maybe for someone who might feel like the doors aren't always open to them. i You are right that I am 100% a believer in the fact that more voices need to be out there in the world. The stats are abysmal around the amount of women's voices, ah BIPOC community, LGBTQ community, the voices that are able to get out there and be their full selves.
00:39:52
Speaker
um in the media. And that is truly one of the reasons why I love podcasts so much because there are the opportunity for so many more voices to be out there, right? Because you can be a guest, you can also start your own show. And um one of the really cool facts, and this is something that i think I just think is awesome, the fastest growing segment of podcast listeners in the US is Black Americans. And I think that that is amazing for people that are listening in that are black to be able to know, hey, people do want to be hearing my voice. And a huge reason why there's been this big upsurge in the amount of listeners is there are so many more black hosts now than there were before. And I think that that's such an important fact and stat and everything for people to hear is like, people are making space
00:40:44
Speaker
for themselves in this particular arena, and other people want to hear what they have to say. And so please know that your voice is wanted. um The biggest mistake I think you could ever make with podcast guessing is not doing it. We all stumble over our words. We all say the wrong things sometimes, right, et cetera. But you are out there doing the work. You are in the arena. I recently heard a thing and said, there's no bleachers in this arena. And that is how I feel about podcasts as well. Like get out there, get on the mic, whether that's as a host, whether that's as a guest, be sharing your voice because trust me, trust me, trust me. There are people that want to hear from you and are going to
00:41:27
Speaker
resonate with you way more than with someone else that they might hear the exact same message from.
Podcasting as an Accessible Medium
00:41:32
Speaker
Oh, that's so good and so true. And that's probably what I love about podcasting too, is like you get to just be more authentic. And right now authenticity is like what is really you know shining and ruling on on all social channels. But you don't have to be so polished. like I'm comfortable on TV because of my background. yeah But I've also trained a lot of people in media training. And I see how most people aren't comfortable on TV. And I get it. There's a huge spotlight. There's cameras. There's a ticker timer telling you, like
00:42:00
Speaker
you're about to go to commercial it's stressful podcast is none of that you know like we can edit this thing up as much as we want and you know Christina and I were laughing like if you hear my dog if there's construction noises we'll have pause we'll start over again so if you've never been on a podcast before and you're worried about that just know that like this is a much typically speaking I'm speaking generally obviously but from what I've found and I'd love to know if you agree Christina but it's just a much gentler space yes Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. The thing about podcasts, and this is why it actually works really well for my introverts. um A lot of my clients are introverts. um And I think at first, people only think extroverted people go on podcasts or go and talk or XYZ. And look, i am ah I am an extrovert, so I do understand that.
00:42:46
Speaker
but um it works really well for introverts or people that might be more nervous as well because you are I am just having a one on one conversation right now with Tiffany. There isn't anyone watching us, there isn't anyone listening in, no one commenting, nothing like that, right? yeah and It also, to your point, it can be edited. If I really mess something up, if I really say something wrong, like I know Tiffany's not out to get me. like I can just be like, hey, can we can we just like hit timeout on that and start that one over again? And it's all good. So yeah you know just go out there, do it. Understand you're gonna be super nervous for your first couple that you do. That is incredibly normal. you know When we work with our clients, we're getting them booked for the most part on 24 shows over a year. And that is like a huge,
00:43:33
Speaker
um a huge like thing they go through is that there'll be like at the for my first like three or four I was just like ah a Nervous wreck, right? Yeah, but by the time I got to the end it was like put me on this mic I am ready to go I am ready to talk right, etc And it is a muscle just like anything else you need to get out there do it And that's also a really good plug for don't worry about getting on the big shows First off, OK, make sure they're full of your ideal audience. But it may be a good thing to start with a friend's show or, you know, something that's like a pretty small show, maybe even something local, like yeah get on there, have those experiences, because then when you do want to start pitching to the bigger shows, um you're going to feel a lot more comfortable in front of the mic. Yeah, such a good tip.
00:44:18
Speaker
And I will just say I am an introvert, so let me look at you as an example. you know Podcasting is fun. When I was in the PR world and I would get, sometimes I would get the chance to go on the radio on behalf, I worked for the American Cancer Society, so okay yeah sometimes sometimes I would go on the radio myself. If it was ever TV, we always put forth our volunteers, our cancer survivors, but radio, sometimes it would just be me. I loved radio, because I was like, I don't have to worry about what I look like, yeah you know, and I just thought radio was so fun. And this is that's what podcasting totally, totally. Absolutely. It's like that. It's just getting that voice out there and our voices are truly our most important thing. um Yeah, they really are. We can do and the most the biggest thing we have really. Yeah, I love that.
00:45:03
Speaker
Thank you for all of the amazing tips and nuggets. I hope whoever was listening was able to take some notes and get out there and plan their pitching day. And if they're also listening, they're like, huh, I think I'd rather just really offload that to someone who knows how to do this on a regular basis. Will you tell everybody where they can find you? Yes, podcastpublicityquiz.com um is a great quiz that we have that helps you determine what might be the best avenue for you moving forward. um And then you can also always find me on Instagram at publicityxChristina, and that's with a CH. And I'm always on there ranting and about stuff, ah talking about things that i also that I love, the events I get to go to, et cetera. But please come over and say hi in the DMs. I love hearing from people that hear me on shows.
00:45:50
Speaker
Love it. Love it. Love it. Thank you so much, Christina. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on today's episode of This or More. Make sure to subscribe, rate, and leave a review, and then share this episode with a fellow entrepreneur who is ready to expand their current reality and take up more space. Until next time, remember, no matter what level of success you've achieved to date, you're wildly capable of This or More.